2010May27 - Howard Griswold Conference Call

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Howard Griswold Conference CallThursday, May 27, 2010Partial

Howard Griswold Conference calls:218-844-3388 pin 966771# (6 mutes & un-mutes),

Thursdays at 8 p.m., Eastern Time.6 Mutes and un-mutes

Conference Call is simulcast on:www.TheREALPublicRadio.Net

Starting in the first hour at 8 p.m.

Note: there is a hydrate water call Mondays, same time and number and pin #.Howards home number: 302-875-2653 (between 9:30, a.m, and 7:00, p.m.)

Mickeys debt collection call is 8:00 p.m., Eastern Time, Wednesday night. The number is 712 432 8773 and the pin number is 947975#.

All correspondence to:Gemini Investment Research Group, POB 398, Delmar, Del. 19940

(do not address mail to Howard Griswold since Howard has not taken up residence in thatmailbox and since hes on good terms with his wife he isnt likely to in the foreseeable

future.)

"All" Howard's and GEMINI RESEARCH's information through the years, hasbeen gathered, combined and collated into 3 "Home-Study Courses" and

"Information packages" listed atwww.peoples-rights.com "Mail Order" DONATIONSand/or Toll-Free 1-877-544-4718 (24 Hours F.A.Q. line)Dave DiReamer can be reached at:[email protected]

Peoples-rights has a new book available from The Informer:Just Who Really Owns the United States, the International Monetary Fund, FederalReserve, World Bank, Your House, Your Car, Everythingthe Myth and the Reality.

Hell take $45 for the book to help with ads, but $40 would be ok which includes shipping($35 barebones minimum)

www.peoples-rights.com c/o 1624 Savannah Road, Lewes, Delaware 19958

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Often you can find a transcript or a partial one for the weeks call at the following website:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/peoplelookingforthetruth

*******************************************************************When you arent talking please mute your phone!!

It would be best if you mute your phone when you first come on, then un-mute it when youwant to talk and then re-mute it.
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You can use the *6 button on your phone or use the phones mute buttonSpeaker phones and cell phones are not desirable as they can chop up the call badly

occasionally.If you are recording the call and leave the phone unintended, please mute!!!!!

Note, on October 30th someone left the phone un-muted and coupled television audio into

the phone making the conference call conversations very difficult.When you are not muted be careful of making noise such as breathing hard into the phonesmicrophone or rubbing the mouthpiece or not reducing extraneous noise across the room.

Cell phones can pick up wind noise when used outside and also if not in a primaryreception zone can couple noise into the call.

Excessive echoes and noise will terminate the conference call.Cell phones and speaker phones can cause echoes.

Keep the call quiet, dont make Howard climb out of his mailbox and bop you one.

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your speech down otherwise your words and meaning will be lost.

Suggestion to everyone (even Howard):Get a phone with a privacy or mute button. This is much more convenient than star-6 andmore rapid to use. It can also be used as a cough button since it can be used rapidly. Try it,

youll like it.*********************************************************************

Mickeys new call-in number:1-712-432-8787, pin: 170555#

8 p.m, EST****************************************

A recording of each Howard Griswold Thursdayconference call is available from Dezert Owl upon requestfor any sized donation. Go to the following link:www.TheRealPublicRadio.Net/Archives.html .

For donations to desert, send them to Free America Radio Network, 121 Seaparc Circle,Suite B, Kingsland, Georgia 31548. Phone number: 912-882-2142. Cell: 304-629-7169.

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[Jim] Did you hear about that $3,000 Virginia fine starting in July?

[Howard] Yeah, I heard something about Virginias got some big fines on somethingbut I never caught what the fine was for.

[Jim] Fifteen miles over the speed limit.
http://www.therealpublicradio.net/Archives.htmlhttp://www.therealpublicradio.net/Archives.html


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[Howard] Oh, yeah? You know what Id do? Id go down there and get about 30tickets at fifteen miles over the speed limit or twenty miles over or something like that andrun them way the hell up and then sue them for all that money as a reimbursement that theyowe me for a taking of my private property without just compensation and then Idmultiply it by three because under the racketeering laws what theyre doing is racketeering

and Id be entitled to three times the injury and then Id put a million dollar punitivedamage on top of that and by the time I was done I could probably shut down the stategovernmentempty the treasury.

[Jim] Apparently it is racketeering. They were mentioning something about thelawyer got it through Kanea buddy of Kanes.

[Howard] All this stuff is bothering private people. Anything under the 14th

Amendment is all racketeering considering us to be property of the United States is a formof racketeering. As the matter of fact the whole legal system is pretty much racketeering.Its there to take money from the American people and support them in their system.

[Henry] The BAR lawyers is the American Politburo. Its the ACLU, the AmericanCommunist Lawyers Union.

[Howard] I have a feeling that come near this election time it might be a good idea toput out some kind of a blast to get it into the news all over the place and them talking aboutit everywhere that it doesnt matter if you elect a Republican Communist or a DemocraticCommunist, either way we still got a communist in office....

[caller] I am calling from West Virginia. We are trying to get a little information onthe UCC and this AforV stuff and so on, land patents and the whole nine yards. Wevebeen looking into that and we cant seem to get a straight answer on it and I have justrecently sent in some A for Vs and but two days after I sent them someone tells me I haveto have a UCC filing and I didnt. Ive been studying this stuff for months and no one everbrought that up before I sent them so Im just wanting to know if Im going to jail or not.

[Howard] Whats an A for V or whatever it is youre saying?

[caller] A for V is the accepted for value.

[Howard] Oh, good Lord.

[caller] Is that bad?

[Howard] If youd gotten on this conference call months and months and months agoyou would have learned not to fool with that and why not Now, I wouldnt say youd go


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to jail right away. It depends upon on how hard you push. If you go into court and try topush that you might get stuck in jailit has happened to several people.

[caller] Im not planning on pushing it but the thing that Im asking about is I knowseveral people that claim that they are doing this and that their bills are going away and

theyre not in jail. These people are not in jail. In fact, some of them are doing what Iwould call seminars. Some of them are actually out teaching other people to do ittheyrenot in prison. Theyve been doing it for two or three years.

[Howard] Well, they cant catch up with everybody at once and youll find thatparticularly people like the IRS theyre usually about three years behind in catching up toanything. If you get away with it for three years thats about average but then after threeyears theyre going to start catching up to these people.

[caller] Ive only sent out about two of them.

[Howard] Id suggest you dont send any more of them out.

[caller] Well, I wont. In your opinion what is the reason why those are bad?

[Howard] Its not my opinion at all. Its what the law says. Get a law dictionary andlook up the definition of the word, accepted or acceptance, and it says that if you accept inany manner you assume the liability unless you avoid the acceptance. Now, why would youaccept for value when you could have avoided the acceptance?

[caller] Well, I dont know, sir. To be honest with you two months ago I hadntheard of any of this stuff. Acceptance means nothing to me and not accepting meansnothing to me. So, in other words, Im in a situation where I couldnt answer any of yourquestions. So, Im asking you.

[Howard] The unsuspecting public can be taken advantage of in many ways.Unfortunately, its not just our government that takes unfair advantage of the Americanpeople. Its some of the Americans that do it too.

[caller] So, youre saying for whatever reason this accepted for value is a hoax?

[Howard] Well, call me and Ill put you in touch with a couple of people that haveused it in the past and found out that it didnt work.

[Dave] In the meantime go to www.peoples-rights.com and order the 48-pageinformation package about the security agreement indemnity bond financing statement andthats what youre referring to as a UCC document and that does workhave testimonialsfor whom it has worked.
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[caller] Let me ask you another question. Theres a friend of ours who is in theprocess of doing the UCC thing and he is telling us that if we do that, that could protect usfrom the A for V thing. Does that sound sound to you?

[Howard] Wellno. No, when you break laws nothing is going to protect you. There

is no get out of jail free card except in a monopoly game.

[caller] Ok, but I mean none of us knew that we were breaking any laws. We aretrying to discharge debt under the 1933 Im sure this is all repeat news to you.

[Howard] Weve heard it.

[caller] Ok, youve heard it so in other words were trying to follow as far as weknow what is the law. So in other words no ones broke any laws that they know about sowhat Im asking you is if we dohes asking us to go here in the next three or four daysand put in our UCCdo our UCC filing. And were even having to do thatI live in West

Virginia and theyve already threatened us a $500 fine if we do that. Theyre telling us notto do that or well get a $500 fine. As far as we can tell the only reason were beingthreatened for that is because they dont want us to do something that would take usoutside of the US Corporation. And I can understand why people working for thecorporation wouldnt want you to beat their system.

[Howard] Thats correct but thats not the reason why they usually reject them.

[caller] Ok, so whats the reason they reject them?

[Howard] They reject them because theyre not properly done in the first place.

[caller] One of my buddies has actually contacted you and done those. I think hesaid he spent $450. His name is Ted He lives here with us. Hes not with me tonight buthe said hes already contacted you and got onenow, he hasnt sent it out yet. He is aprocess of doing his UCC. As far as I know he got a contract from you for $450 and he issaying that that would put him in the creditor position instead of the debtor position.

[Howard] Thats correct. Theres a bunch of different people out here circulating waysto do these security agreements. That group of people have never looked in a law book tofind out what the rules are to put one together. They are putting together a piece of paperwith a bunch of words on it that amount to nothing but toilet paperit has no valuewhatsoever.

[caller] I have no way of knowing whos got

[Howard] Thats right. Gemini Investments spent seven months researching the lawand putting together a security agreement backed up by a UCC-1 form that introduces thesecurity agreement. The law says the UCC-1 form can be filed up to ninety days before asecured interest is filed in order to lay your claim in advance but after ninety days the


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UCC-1 is dormant. It dies unless its backed up by a secured interest. Now, the law saysthat a secured interest, first of all, has to be an agreement between the debtor and thecreditor. If you look at 90% of these peoples papers out here that are floating around theyhavent written an agreement between the debtor and the creditor.

[caller] Which, in my opinion, is probably because they didnt know to do that.

[Howard] They dont know how to write an agreement. Thats the first problem. Thesecond problem is it says the property has to be identified in a manner that it can be locatedeasily. That doesnt mean that you can say, all my children, all my houses, all mycars. I cant locate all your cars; I dont know what cars are yours so the car has to beidentified by make, year and serial number. The house has to be identified by its location,the plot number, book and portfolio where its filed.

[caller] Were in the process of gathering that information as we speak.

[Howard] Ok thats the things that need to be done in order to put it together properlyso that it can be recognized when you get into the courts with it. If it isnt put together inthat manner then its a piece of toilet paper. So, just look and You dont have to come tous. I wish the hell there was somebody else out here doing these things beside me then Iwouldnt have so much work on me. There isnt anybody out here doing it and followingwhat the rules say and able to teach people what to do once theyve got one filed properly.

[caller] Now, were in the process right nowhave you ever heard of KeithEdwards?

[Howard] No.

[caller] Ok, hes got a talk show that we download almost weekly and its everyTuesday almost that he does that and weve got about twelve, fifteen of his and hes talkingabout getting land patents, going over to the

[Howard] Another waste of time.

[caller] Ok, thats what I thought too, however, hes explaining to people that ifthey get these land patents that theyre defining their meets and bounds and the reason whywere paying property taxes every year is because someone else has our meets and boundsdefined and unless we define them or declare them were going to pay property taxes.

[Dave] Is that Keith Edward Livingway?

[caller] Yeah, thats him.

[Howard] I thought you said Keith Edwards.

[Howard] No commentok?


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[caller] Ok, so thats bad news?

[Howard] My grandmother taught me when I was a young boy if you dont haveanything good to say about somebody dont say anything at all. Im not saying anything

get the point?

[caller] Ive listened to every one of hisin fact, not only have I listened to thosebut Ive taken careful note, Ive even drawn up a manual and dispersed it to people,however, the one question I have about him isits not like Im uneducated or stupidwhen I listen to his radio broadcast theres times when he says things that I cantunderstand how theyve verified them. In other words, hell make statements that I knowIm not stupid, I know that theyre not easy to verify and hes talking about it like itsgospel. But hes also talking about these grand juries being put in place in every districtand all that stuff and it sounds to me like that those would not be recognized bynow,dont get me wrong, I consider the

[Dave] If you use the security agreement thats drawn up by Howard Griswold yougot testimonials from people that it has worked forthats proof.

[Howard] Alright, thats one thing. The other thing

[Dave] [Henry] I can vouch for that. My name is Henry Miles and I was introuble with the IRS. They tried to get me for $82,000. I used the security agreement withthree or four other documents and sent them to Philadelphia. Three days later I got a noticeof voluntary dismissal.

[caller] Ok. Now, Mr. Griswold, let me ask you a question. Ive already told youthat Ive sent out my. Now, its only $27,000. Thats my mortgage and Ive already sentout about $9000 on a BB&T visa. I sent those out last week.

[Howard] You just caused yourself a lot of trouble.

[caller] Is there any point of me messing with you?

[Howard] No, not once youve done these kinds of things. To tell you the honest truthpeople that go off on these tangents make it ten times harder for me to help them so reallytheres no point in you messing with me because youve already aggravated me.

[caller] Ok. Im sorry to hear that.

[Howard] But if you insist get in touch, as Dave just suggested to you, get onwww.peoples-rights.com, look on the order page for the security agreement and the UCC-1 forms.

[caller] What good would that do for me?
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[Howard] Write to him, follow the directions and write to him and he will send youthe package. Now, in that package there are about nine pages of information that youwould have to fill in to get a security agreement because you need all those details in orderto make up a proper security agreementtheres 40 or 45 pages in that package. The rest

of those pages are all from legal documents that show you what a security agreement is allabout, what the law says about them and theyre all written by lawyers explaining whattheyre about. I suggest you get that and read it and understand it and dont pay anyattention to what youre hearing elsewhere. Read what the law says. This is all Griswoldand Gemini Investments works on what the law says, not my opinion. And Ive toldpeople a thousand times you dont want my opinion because you wont like it. My opinionis God ought to clean this thing up and get rid of mankind. Were the problem. I know youwont like it. Everybody thinks they ought to be able to live. Well, I think God ought to killeverybody and get rid of the whole damned mess. Thats my opinion. Now, lets get backto what the law says. The law says that the security agreement has merit. And, as a matterof fact, in the Maryland law I found a document in the Maryland codes that said that

anybody can file a secured interest on any property at all including your own. In some ofthese states the lawyers will try to tell you that you cant file it on your own. Theyll try totell you that you cant file it in your name. Well, we dont file it in our own namewe fileit in the debtors name. Its written differently. But we have trouble but in the Code inevery one of the states, they all adopted the same basic code and in the code at Section516(d) it says that if they refuse to file it all you have to do is send it to them in a way thatyou can prove you delivered it and make a photo copy of your money order that you sent tothem to pay for it with and if you can prove you tendered the payment and prove youdelivered it that its effectively filed whether they index it or not. Within their code there isa way to get it filed no matter what kind of trouble they give you and if they give you anytrouble then what that does that constitutes a taking of your private property without justcompensation and opens them up to a law suit if youre willing to follow through. Now, ifyoure willing to learn and follow through and do something like that Im willing to workwith you but if you want to follow a bunch of bull shit youre hearing on the internet thenIm not willing to spend any time with you.

[caller] Im interested. For give me for saying this but youre one more voice that Idont have any verification for. In other words, Ive talked to fifteen people in the last twoor three months.

[Howard] I just told you where to get the verification.

[caller] Im laid off now. All I do is research stuff so believe me, Ill do that. question would be, what would be the reason that you would be telling the truth if fifteenother people are pulling my chain?

[Howard] Well, what were sending you is copies of the law. Like I said, you read thelaw


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[Dave] And testimonials from people. Weve got testimonials from people that ithas worked for. These other people do not have any testimonials.

[caller] Now, you do realize youre speaking to someone that has very little respectfor what is called the law. I realize that they pass laws, every month that goes by they pass

laws and statutes and this, that and the other that contrary to the Constitution of the UnitedStates of America.

[Howard] Hes on the right track. The rest of you people got to realize this too. TheConstitution established the limit and authority of government. The government has theright to make certain laws regulating government and government only and none of thoselaws can regulate the private people. The security agreement puts you in a position that theprivate person has secured the interest in your property and overrides their claim to yourproperty.

[caller] Ok, now thats what Ive been told and I want to believe that. So what

would I need to do to initiate, what would I need to do to start that process with you?

[Howard] Just what we just told you to do, get on www.peoples-rights.com and getthat page or that series of pages related to the security interest and read it and study it.

[caller] Ok, Ill do that tonight. And in order to contact you again do I call the samenumber?

[Howard] No, this is the conference call number on Thursday nights. You got apencil?

[caller] Yes, sir, I got one.

[Howard] 302-875-2653. Now, considering that Elvis Presley is no longer as popularas he used to be Ive taken his place. Hed be jealous of how popular I am. I did not planthis, at all, in life but my popularity is just unbelievable. This phone is busy, busy, busyIam busy with all kinds of things that are going on. Call and call and call until you finallyget me. I dont ignore anybody on purpose. Im busy and lately I havent been feelinggood. The weather and I dont get along well and weve had an awful lot of bad weather soits bothered me.

.

.

.[caller] Howard, you were discussing racketeering earlier in your talk. I wonder ifthis would be characterized as racketeering by the Internal Revenue Service where youvegot two liens on your property. Each one is a duplicate. You wrote to them and told themthat theyve doubled up on the lien. They really dont care, they continue to leave it thereand now theyre getting ready to foreclose on my So, as far as theyre doubling up onthat same lien and I wrote and told them that theyve done that, theyve doubled up on the
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lien and that if they take that one off at least I can work with the other one, maybe pay thatoff, but no, they

[Howard] Well, first of all they dont have a lien. They dont have any lien. Theydont have a first one or a second one. They dont even have a judgment, havent been to

court. Theres only two ways to create a lien. One of them is the secured interest and thedebtor has to sign accepting the liability and then it has to be filed properly and if its filedproperly then that establishes a lien against the property. Thats through the process of asecured interest. The only other way to get a lien is called a judgment lien. They have to goto court and get a judgment and the judgment becomes a lien against your property. Theyhavent done either one. They dont do either one. They send out a notice of lien. TheNotice of Lien has to have a lien somewhere that its a notice about and they dont haveone. They falsify the appearance of a lien by the notice of a lien and then proceed to collectand if youre dumb enough to go to court and argue with them you create the controversyby arguing with them and give them a controversy for the court to rely on to use forjurisdiction and then the court rules against you because they said you owed the money.

What racketeering this is. Its the same thing as a traffic ticket. Traffic tickets are anotherform of racketeering.

[caller] If to get myself on the defense on this I could contact you and get thepaperwork and get the UCC filing, put my property in that, would that still uphold?

[Howard] That would help but that wouldnt stop the whole problem. Butunderstanding something about the UCC and the recording of such things is importantits very important because weve gotten rid of these liens by using the UCC but not theUCC-1 and the security agreement necessarily. That just secures your property and keepsthem from being able to take your property if they follow through and try to take you tocourt and get the money out of you providing, of course, you know how to defend yourown secured interest. But thats the long way to do it. Theres a short way to do it. Theresa number of different UCC forms. UCC-1 is not the only form. Theres a UCC-11 form.That is a form that you can get it from the Secretary of States office, sometimes theCounty Recorder of Deeds office has them. And that is a request for a search of therecords of the filings of UCCs to prove that there is an interest in somebody else which iswhat establishes the lien. What weve been doing is we fill in this request. We offer to payfor the research. In most cases they havent charged anybody but in a few cases some of thecourts have said, yeah, we want $15 to do the research. So whats $15 send it to them.Thats cheap enough just to get the answer from them. You make sure you do this inwriting. You do not go there personally because you cant prove anything that they saidpersonally. You got to have it in writing. So you mail this UCC-11 form into them, givethem an address to mail back a response and they mail a response back to you that saysweve searched the records and we can find no liens on file in the UCC division of theSecretary of States office or the County Recorder of Deeds office against the name, JoeSchmoe, whoever you may be, whatever Joe Schmoe you are or Mary Schmoe orwhatever. Now, you got evidence that they dont have a UCC judgment of any kind, aUCC claim against you. Then you go to the local court where they filed this Notice of Lienand you ask the court clerk in writingyou dont go there personallyagain, in writing


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you ask them if they have any record of a judgment against Joe or Mary Schmoe. Theyllwrite back to you and say weve searched the record and we dont find any judgments inthe name of Joe or Mary Schmoe. Now, you go back to the court clerk where this lien isfiled and you show them these two pieces of paper that say that theres no lien on file andtheres no judgment on file. That proves that this Notice of Lien is fraudulent because

theres no real lien that is giving notice of. And you tell this nice little court clerk ladyits usually a lady, if it isnt its a gentlemenand you tell them very bluntly that if theydont remove it from the record youre going to file suit against them for malfeasance inoffice and falsifying the records by recording this. And theyll say, well, Ill call the IRS,and you answer them. You say, I dont care if you call God, Im still going to sue you,and you walk away. This is the only time you go personally is to see this court clerk thatregisters these things and you let them know that youre going to sue them because thisdocument is false. That upsets them and sure enough they do exactly what they told youtheyre going to do. They call the IRS and tell the IRS youre threatening to sue them overthis Notice of Lien because you showed them papers that show that there is no real lienbehind this that this notice doesnt support a real lien of any kind. What about this, they

ask the IRS and the IRS says, dont worry well take care of it, and the next thing youknow you get a notice in the mail of a release of lien and the liens gone. Well, you got togo to file the Notice of Release of Lien at the court clerks office which will cost you acouple of dollars for filing charges and they put it in the record next to your lien and yourlien is shown to be released. That way we get rid of these liensvery simple, isnt it?

[caller] Thats great, Howard. I can sleep tonight. Thank you very much. I know thefirst thing Ive gotIll do that, Ill go down and Ill get one of those reverse mortgages.Ill get one for $200,000 and have the guy send me a check for $500 every month. Now,that should pay me until Im about 150 years old but with thatnobody will able to touchme.

[Howard] If youd heard the other early part of the conversation, tonight, we weretalking about the fact that this world is liable not to last but another roughly five years.

[caller] Howard, I got a question about the liens. Can you recover your money froma lien after they take it out of your bank account?

[Howard] Youd have to sue them.

[caller] Before we knew all this stuff you just said, we didnt know that then.

[Howard] Well, you do all those things. You use that as your evidence in the law suit.

[caller] Oh, there you goawesome, yes sir, thats it. Thank you very much.

[Howard] See, Ive told people for years, dont ever lose any of the documents thatthey send you because their documents are your evidence of their fraudulent activity. A lotof people throw their documents away or leave them laying around and eventually they getthrown away. You should never do that. You should keep every document that they give


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you because you can use their documents against them as your evidence to prove that whatthey did was improper.Now, thats only for private people. Lets get into that discussion. Weve done this before.I guess I ought to do it again because apparently theres quite a number of new people onthe call here in recent months. As bad as Ive been feeling I dont understand how I can be

impressing anybody but I still seem to be doing it. The concept of this government from thebeginning was that it created a dual system of government. There is a republican form ofgovernment and within that republican form of government there is a separation of powerbetween the individual in his private capacity and the government in their governmentalcapacity. Actually, its truly referred to as the separation of church and state having nothingwhatsoever to do with religion and some brick building with a raving maniac saying, giveme money and Ill talk to God about your sins, or any of this religious crap. It has to dowith the true meaning of the words. The word, state, means government. It is a state offiction. Its a coming together of ideas in the mind of man to operate as a business calledcorporations. They are fictitious functionsthats what the states all about. The word,church, in ancient Hebrew meant mans physical body. When the ancient writings talked

about man they were referring to both male and female gendermankindnot just themale side. So the church being the people are separate and distinct from the State being thegovernmental fictitious body....{01:28:20}[Howard] Everyone must understand the law. You must understand that you dont getinvolved in contracts with the government otherwise youre giving up your free republicstatus as a private individual and making yourself a party to government. Once you madeyourself a party to government then you come under all government rules and regulations.Now, the first thing that we found that would help to get around these problems was thesecurity agreement. The security agreement is like a double-edged sword. Every one ofthese contracts of registration that we have filled out which is nothing but an application toregister your puppy dog, an application to get a drivers license, an application for socialsecurity, an application for a birth certificate. These are applications theyre called but theyactually once theyre signed and accepted they become contracts. Every one of them is inthe form of a UCC-1 form. It does what the law says is necessary to create a UCC-1 form.None of these applications say on the face of them that they are UCC-1 formsthey donthave to. They meet the rules and requirements of law to be a UCC-1 form. Once filed withthe state you have given that property to the State. I dont care if you do it in the form of adeed to land or a land patent if its filed with the State. The State, now, has the superiorinterest in the property because you gave it to them. On a birth certificate the State now hasthe superior interest in your body property. Now, this commercial law, its a little bit moreintense. The commercial law says that once a property is acquired by someone and theinterest in it is acquired by that someone, if that property was to acquire any other type ofproperty then the one who has the interest in that initial property gets an after acquiredinterest in all other property that that property acquires. Was that confusing? Does thatneed more explanation? That is a little bit confusing. Basically what its saying is, its whatthey call multiplicity of contracts. Once youve got the original contract and through it they


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gain an interest that gives them a multiplied interest in any other property that that propertywould acquire. So they have an interest in your body property and your body acquires anyother type of property during the course of life that they have an after acquired interest inall other property. {youve sold yourself into serfdom}. The only way to put a stop to thisis to have a conflicting filing of an interest in the property because without it being filed

you cant prove an interest. It has to be filed. The Code very specifically says that it has tobe filed in the Secretary of the State in the UCC division or in the County Recorder ofDeeds office if its related to fixed property. Fixed property means not moveable. Land isnot moveable. You can dig and dig and dig as deep as you want to. Itll fill up with waterprobably but theres still land underneath of there. Its not moveable. You cant remove theland and put it on a different planet or something so its considered fixed. Moveableproperty is you, your body, your name, your credit, your automobile, your puppy dog.Things like that are moveablethey can go anywhere. The code says that those moveablesare to be recorded at the Secretary of States office and fixed property is to be recordedwhere deeds are recorded at the Recorder of Deeds office in the court. Now, all states dontdo it this way. The States had an option that they can all be recorded at the County

Recorder of Deeds office as they did in Tennessee. The Secretary of State in Tennesseedoesnt record anything like this, just the counties do. In Pennsylvania, I think, recently hasgone to just the Secretary of States office and dropped the County Recorder of Deedsofficesthey dont record them anymore. They dont have to. They can adjust their lawsthe way they want to. But in the one where just the Secretary of the State has the recordingtheres a place on the form where you mark that its to go in the land records. So, theymaintain the land records instead of the County Recorder of Deeds maintaining it. Itdoesnt really matter how its filed, just so it is filed and is filed in the proper location.Once its filed that gives you the priority claim to the property over and above any claimthat they might make and heres the reason why. I think its Section 9-303 of the Code butwed have to go check that. My memory might be failing me on the section number but Ibelieve thats what it was, Section 9-302 or 303 of the Code that says that as long as theresnot a competing claim to the interest in the property that just being in possession of thedocument is sufficient to prove the interest in the property. So, the government neverrecords these things at the Secretary of State or the County Recorder of Deeds officebecause they dont. If you create a secured interest and you file it properly according towhat the Code says and youre the first one to get there and that gives you the priorityinterest in the property over and above any claims that they might make. Now, if you dontrecognize and understand these things and youre not ready to go into court and present thiskind of an argument and prove by citing the sections out of the local Code to the court thenyoure probably going to lose your cases. Thats why Im so darned reluctant to deal withso many people, especially when they listen to a whole lot of other rhetoric theyre hearingfrom other sources that never bothered to read what the Code says. And if they just want tolisten to things and not bother to read then theyre not going to win so why would I botherto help you? I found out that you cant help somebody thats not willing to helpthemselves. I found that out a long time ago in life. If youre willing to help yourself, ifyoure willing to do a little bit of studying and reading and learn the specific details youwill be successful with it. If youre not willing to learn and you just think somebodysgoing to do it all for you then youre probably going to lose unless you happen to get a nicejudge and weve had this happen. Weve had judges say, I know what youve done here. I


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understand this, and hes ruled in our favor and the poor fool that was in front of himcould never have explained to him. The judge was nice enough to follow it through andunderstand it and recognize it for him and do it the correct way. Thats only happened acouple of times. Most of the time a judge will be an arrogant somebody and hell say, Idont know what you mean by thisexplain this. And when you cant explain it hell

ignore it. So, a lot of this is up to you, not me, not the document, its up to you tounderstand what the documents about. The security agreement that Gemini puts togetherDave keeps giving Howard Griswold credit for this. It isnt Howard Griswold at all. Ihad a little bit to do with it. There were quite a number of people involved in putting thistogether and I dont even want to get into the names of who some of them were because Idont want them implicated. They wouldnt want to be implicated because they wereadverse to what governments doing but they were part of government. They put all thistogether and they did it according to the rules. They looked up all this stuff. They showedme what it meant so that I could teach it. We did this because people need to regain thecontrol over their property. They need to regain the control over their lives. Its been a tenyear struggle to try to teach this people because it is beyond anything that school ever

taught you. Its a little bit complicated so it makes it hard for a lot of people. Its not in linewith anything youre familiar with. That makes it a little bit hard. You really got to put outan effort to grasp it on your own. In our security agreement that we put together for peopletheres a three-page document in the back of it called terms and definitions and it lists allthe necessary terms out of the local code for your state and dictionary definitions related towhat the whole security agreement is about. Im sure that most people dont even bother toread it much less do they go look up those terms in the code book and read them. It wouldhelp them. It might confuse them for a while but it would sureonce you read enoughthings it begins to create a picture but until you read enough of them its total confusionbecause that Uniform Commercial Code is not intended by the lawyer writers of it to besimple for the average person to understand. They did this on purpose because they dontwant you to comprehend what theyre doing. This is a

[caller] Howard, you told me to look them up and I looked up every one that I couldfind in the West Virginia Code, do affirm and confirm that you were sayinginaccurate intwo thing.

[Howard] Ok, and they had slightly different section numbers or they used someslightly different terms than what we generalized in it? But the generalized statement thatwe made fits whatever you looked up in your code. What you want to do is use your codewhen you go to court.

[caller] Well, anyway, youre right, its just a sheet of paper but the individual usersshould know what it means and where it comes from and gain confidence in it.

[Howard] Yes, they should and they dont. I know they dont. Very few people will golook those code sections up and study them and try to understand them. Even if some ofthem did look it up they got discouraged because they didnt understand what it mean asthey were reading the first couple of ones so they just gave it up.


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[Dave] You cant read them, they use Latin, they do not want you to know whattheyre talking about.

[Howard] Um huh.

[caller] But if you just keep reading and reading and reading eventually you sort ofbegin to grasp it. Its a progressive thing, not immediate.

[Howard] Yeah, exactlyyes. Learning experiences are always progressive. Theydont just come in a blink of an eye, the click of a finger. Ive been at this for thirty-oneyears now and Im really starting to get a grasp of how it works after thirty-one years.When I first started and went into a law library I had no idea what I was looking for orwhat I was even looking at, books with names on them. The names didnt even meananything to me. I had no idea of where to start. It took a long time, a lot of playing aroundin the library reading this and reading that and start to get an idea what this was and whatthat was. One thing would give me a reference to another and ask where do you find that?

So I went to the librarian and I said, where do you find these books? Isle 6. Oh, ok,thank you. I went to isle six. I found the books, I started looking more things up and itgave me more references. So, I went and looked at the more references. It was a real timeconsuming real effort for me.

[caller] Your explanations, so far, have been most excellent but let me ask you anaside. I think that HR Resolution 192 was repealed in 82 or something

[Howard] Ninety-seven.

[caller] Is there something else thats similar in place or?

[Howard] Theres a discussion going on, right now, in Congress to put some of thedetails of that was known as the Glass-Steigel Act which is House Joint Resolution 192back in place to regulate the banks. But no, House Joint Resolution 192 was repealed in1997 by Clinton right before he left office.

[caller] Well, I thought it was the 192 that gave us the UCC as sort of an exemption,a way to get out of this conundrum but are they separate events. Our UCC-1 financialstatement, is that separate from the 192?

[Howard] Oh, entirely separateyeah, it had nothing to do with it.

[Dave] The UCC is the international law of nations that was passed by Congress inthis nation under the title Negotiable Instrument Act. It was codified at the federal levelinto the Uniform Commercial Code and at the state level its called your state commercialcode but its the international law of nations.


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[Howard] Yes, it is. As a matter of fact I looked this up. German law book and it wasa little hard to understand it because I dont speak German but I found it in German law. Ifound it in French law, I found it in Japanese law, the whole world is using this Code.

[caller] When did it come into play, the UCC?

[Howard] Actually, as Dave just said, it was originally the Negotiable Instrument Lawand you can trace those laws all the way back to the ancient Babylon. This is nothing new.

[caller] The Uniform Commercial Code is a new title for a body of laws longevolving.

[Howard] Yes. The instrument laws were not as involved as this is, today, it hasgrown and evolved into a lot bigger thing than what it used to be but the basic principles ofit started out all the way back in the ancient Babylon. The Roman Empire used the same setof laws. They ran everything by the negotiable instrument laws. All of this has to do with a

governing body of some kind that is operating on paper money or something not ofsubstance. And even if theyre operating on something of substance like here in Americathe United States Constitution originally established that Congress would coin money andregulate the value thereofArticle One, Section eight, Clause five I think it is that saysthat. Congress shall coin money and regulate the value thereof. That was for the people thatthey were supposed to do that, not for the government. The government had the right to usenegotiable instruments within government and set up their own banking system withingovernment.Maryland v. McCullough an early 1880s case, its referred to as the bank caseand it went to the US Supreme Court and the US Supreme Court ruled that government as agoverning body under the Constitution has the authority to set up a bank for internalgovernment functions so thats what they did. Now, listen to me closely. The 14 th

Amendment made everybody in America citizens of the United States and of the state inwhich they reside and that made everybody property of the United States. Now they had toright to force you or trick you or in any way they could prompt you to get into thesecontracts with government. Once you contracted in now you became property of the UnitedStates under their control and being that you were now within government they didnt haveto meet the rest of the constitutional requirements like circulating gold and silver so HouseJoint Resolution 192 is where they did away with gold. They had done away with silverand most people dont know thisin 1870 they abolished silver as money. It stillcirculated all the way up until 1968, I believe, but it wasnt legally money from 1870 on.And in 1933 they abolished gold as money. They made both of these products acommodity. They could be bought and sold with negotiable paper and everything eversince then has been done with negotiable paper. Due to the fact that we are all property ofthe United States now and were not independent private people they dont have to meetthe constitutional requirements of providing us with gold and silver. They can incorporateus in with their banking system internally because we become part of the internal functionsof government by signing these contracts like birth registrations and social securityapplications.


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[caller] Howard, if you do your UCC then your primary interest, do you think thatpeople should go forth also and cancel all their birth certificates and drivers license andthings?

[Howard] Indeedas a matter of fact that was the first thing we did was develop a

document that once you could prove that you had an interest in the property that you couldthen cancel the registrations that you made where you lost an interest in the property andvery few people bother to do that. I think theyre afraid theyll lost government benefitsand be able to go to a government hospital if they need it. Die, damn it, youre much betteroff.

[caller] I wanted to talk to you sometime. It doesnt have to be in this conference.But you know that Im in the middle of a bankruptcy and Im not sure if I shouldimplement the UCC now or wait until its done or whatever.

[Howard] We talked last week about this. I told you to hold and see what goes on in

the bankruptcy.

[caller] Ok, well thats going to be another four months or something

[Howard] Well, you should be in touch with me. Let me know whatever kind ofdocuments youre getting from the other side in the bankruptcy operation.

[caller] Howard, youre familiar with the accepted for value?

[Howard] Yeah, Ive spoken against it ever since it first started getting circulatedabout four or five years ago.

[caller] OK. You just say leave it alone entirely. I thought maybe in conjunctionwith the UCC-1 it might have

[Howard] Somebodys got the idea of thats how to use the UCC-1. I dont knowwhere they got that idea because they didnt read the law books. Under the commercial lawany form of acceptance at all establishes the liability and if you accept in any form at alleither a restricted accepted and then you refuse to pay what youve accepted as a debt theycan immediately go to collectioncommercial law says so. So youre just putting yourselfin a worse position by accepting for value. But theres a lot of people out there preachingthis because it sounds great, it doesnt work but it sounds great.

[caller] Does it ever work?

[Howard] Well, we got a lot of lazy people in this world. Most people are lazyincluding the ones that work If its not easy to collect a debt because you did somethinglike this accepted for value some people just set the debt aside and Ill let somebody elsefool with this one so it looks to you like it worked. Two or three years later it comes up on


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the computer that the debts still due and owing and somebody attacks you and tries tocollect again so youll find out, eventually, that it didnt work.

[Henry] Thats exactly the same thing as the money office certificaterememberthem?

[Howard] Yeah, public money office certificates or something they were calledpublic office money certificates. Actually, the people that were writing them should havebeen put in jail and some of them didfinally it stopped.

[caller] So youre thinking this accepted for value may have the semblance that itsworking but its just delaying something for later action and youre.that window.

[Howard] Yeah, because the debt just keeps accumulating interest because its unpaidso youre raising the debt to a higher amount and they come after you later for a higheramount.

[caller] Why would people think that it is working?

[Dave] Because they do not listen to Howards call.

[Howard] Theyre not hearing about the debt, right now, because of what I justexplained to you. Lazy people will say, ah, this is too hard to bother with so I wont foolwith this one. They throw it over in a pile of uncollected debts so you dont hear from themfor a while. Thats what makes them think that its working. Weve actually had the sameproblem with the security agreement. We have a way of paying the debt with the securityagreement by assigning the debt back to government to pay it because government has topay you just compensation for any expense that they cause you and thats the way thesecurity is set up. Just send it back for them to pay just compensation. Its calledreimbursement. 01:53:44.448

{02:57:20}[caller] The question is, there is a organization out there, a corporation calledMERS, Mortgage Electronic Registration, and its been found increasingly that it is notregistered in the various states that it is providing

[Howard] Thats not even relevant to what the MERS case was all about.

[caller] Ok, then its not registered as a corporation in the?

[Howard] So what? I dont have to register in Nevada to come out there and sue you.

[caller] Thats true.


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[Howard] But if Im suing you to collect a debt thats been assigned to me the MERScase covered that and what it said was, the assignee is not the real party in interest and hasno right to bring the case. Thats whats important, not whether theyre registered or not.

[caller] Ok.

[Dave] Its the Rule 902, isnt it?

[Howard] No, Rule 902 is the rules of evidence and whether or not they can present acertified document proving anythingthats what Rule 902 is. No, thats Rule 17 of theRules of Civil Procedure, the real party in interest.

[caller] That they have to have standingright?

[Howard] Thats right. They have to be the injured party to be able to prove that theywere injured, otherwise theyre not the real party in interest and they cant prove standing

so they have no right to proceed with the suit. Of course, they will and they can and they doproviding that you dont object but if you object timely then they cant. And most thesedebt collections are assigned. These debt collection lawyers are buying a pile of debt andbeing assigned to collect the debt. Well, theyre not the real party in interest. The samething is frequently true with mortgages because the bank that made the original mortgageturns around and sells it right after they make it so its assigned to another bank. And whenthat other bank tries to collect on it even in the name of the original bank theyre just theassignee and as assignee the MERS case says that they dont have standing to sue.

[caller] Now youre speaking of the MERS case, which case is this?

[Howard] Im speaking of the MERS case. Thats what the MERS case was all about.

[caller] How are you spelling the MERS case; which court was this out of?

[Howard] It was the US District Court and I dont remember where it wassomewhere out West. I think it was out in Nevada.

[caller] Kansas.

[Howard] Kansas, thats right, youre right, it was Kansas. Thats not the only case onassignments that exist. The courts rule the same way on these assignments. The assigneedoes not have the standing to sue.

[caller] Nor does the assignee have standing to appoint a trustee who will forecloseon a property in a non-judicial stateright?

[Howard] Thats right. No assignee has the power to do anything. Somewhere aroundhere I got a Wells Fargo case. Wells Fargo had bought the mortgage from some other bank


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and they moved to foreclose on the mortgage and got thrown out of court because theywerent the real party in interest and that was long before the MERS case.

[caller] What happens when they merge or get a buyout such as Wells Fargo boughtWachovia? So, is Wells Fargo the holder-in-due-course for all Wachovias assignments or

absorptions?

[Howard] Yeah, but theyre just the assignee because they bought it out so they dontreally have any standing to suethe original transaction.

[caller] A merger doesnt make a difference?

[Howard] Nope.

[caller] IN effect that they paid money or some consideration

[Howard] If they paid to buy it they got screwed.

[caller] Are you saying that if theya mortgage on somebody else they cantforeclose on you?

[Howard] Thats what I said, thats what the case said.

[caller] Wells Fargo caseright?

[Howard] Yep, the Wells Fargo case and the MERS Case.

[caller] Its not a matter that they cant foreclose, they very rarely like to abide byany of the laws.

[Howard] Like I said, they can get away with anything if you dont object.

[caller] Ok. Have you heard of the Mitchell case, the bankruptcy case out ofNevada?

[Howard] No.

[caller] I really got to get that one to you. The judge, the female judge, she wentthrough the rules of evidence and the UCC.

[caller] That would be interesting. How about if you forwarded it to Dave?

[caller] Yeah, Ill send you a copy.

[caller] Maybe we can all share it.


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[caller] Ill send you a hard copy, Howard, plus the Tennessee case. Tennessee isgoing after MERS for avoiding or interfering with the registry with the county recordersoffice in receiving funds for transferring of documents. The assignments, they dont recordthe assignments with the county recorders office so all the counties in Tennessee havejoined together to go after MERS in a class action.

[caller] Was that in the newspapers?

[caller] Im not sure about the newspapers but then there was another decision thatcame down from the eastern district of California and the judge went through the UCCspeaking about the separation of the note and the trust deed and he used a lot of phrases outof the commercial code

[caller] I would be interested in that if we could communicate.

[caller] Can you get it off the internet?

[caller] I got it from some research people that were doing some research. I can e-mail it to Dave.

[Howard] Yeah, e-mail it to Dave.

[caller] Do you know the name of the case?

[caller] We have one called in re Mitchell out of Nevada. It would be best for me toe-mail it Theres also a 248 page review in the Northwest University Journal on theforeclosure situation and they speak of what to do post-foreclosure and what to do pre-foreclosure and they really break it down.

[Howard] See, theres an awful lot of research into this area. Its gone way beyondwhat little research weve done.

[caller] Were out here at the front line. I started digging. There were answerssomeplace. This has been going on too long for there not to be answers. Its just a matter ofnetworking.

[caller] Were doing some pretty good stuff. Im getting pretty good responses fromthe judges with some of this.

[Howard] Its amazing the responses weve been getting with this recently. For yearsweve been arguing some of these things and getting no response out of the judges at alland all of a sudden the judges have done a 180 degree turntheyre paying attention.Theyre actually going against the banks.

[caller] Well, not all of them. Theres a case in Colorado, a woman is losing four orfive houses. Shes brought in the MERS problem and case and they ignored it on her.


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[caller] Theyre corrupt.

[caller] It might depend on how she laid it out because even attorneys if they dontlay it out in a certain way to tell the story they really want to hear the facts and the story in

your particular case. They dont like boiler plates. You have to really lay out theparticulars.

[caller] The facts and evidence dont change. Theyre done the same thing in everymortgage that theyve done.

[caller] and the violations will be different.

[Howard] How its pled makes a big difference in front of a judge. If you dont followthe rules of pleading and put it in the correct way they wont pay attention to it.

[caller] You really got to do that.

[caller] I dont understand that has to do with anything of the story.

[caller] Well, you have to fit your story into the rules of pleadingthats what Imthinking.

[Howard] Youre right.

[caller] You got to fit your story into their way of thinking.

[caller] Well, it would be really convenient if all of them would rule or abide by thelaw the same. In other words the law in one country should be the same in another and thelaw in one state should be the same in the other. I mean, you take the same case inColorado and move it over to Florida and you might not win.

[Howard] Thats right. The rules of how to do it in Florida are different. If you dontfollow the rules in Florida it wont be addressed.

[caller] Now, if it was federal court I dont see how that could be that muchdifferent but maybe thats more local court.

[caller] You also have to understand what type of remedy youre going to get in thedifferent courts. Like you have an advantage by going into bankruptcy where you have theautomatic stay. You take the same case into a civil court you dont have the automaticrelief coming from an injunction or TRO. You have to plead in order to get that. So youhave to understand the weapons you have.


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[caller] well, I would agree in part but like we mentioned its not the same all overso no matter what you do in one location its not going to be the same in another. So haveto start all over so you have to start all over and reinvent the wheel over and over again.

[Howard] Thats why you got to look up the local rules and follow them when youre

going into the courts.

[caller] Well, thats in the lower courts. If you up it and take it out and put it in thefederal it shouldnt make any difference what state youre in.

[Howard] Theres a set of rules for the courts that are laid out by the Supreme Court togovern the operation of the courts but each one of the courts has the right to make theirown little specific rules to go along with those rules and if you dont follow the localcourts local specific rules they wont pay attention to it.

[caller] Why would I want to go there, then, why wouldnt I want to go right to

federal court?

[Howard] Even the federal court has specific local rules. Just ask the court for its localrules and itll give you a copy of them.

[caller] Download it from the internet.

[caller] Well, sometimes the internet doesnt always have the exact preciseinformation. Its altered sometimes.

[Howard] Or some of it is left off on purpose.

[caller] Wellpossible.

[caller] That Mitchell case, is it a bankruptcy case?

[caller] Yeah, its a bankruptcy case.

[caller] 2008.

[caller] Yeah, that sounds like it.

[caller] Is MERS involved in that case.

[caller] Yes.

[caller] Thats it.

[caller] Joshua and Stephany Mitchell. Go to Google and type in in re Mitchellversus State of Nevada, a pdf file will pop up.


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[caller] Thats the case that destroyed MERSthats what they say.

[caller] Thats one of the major cases that destroyed MERS. She goes into theevidence code, 901, she goes into, I believe, 801, 601

[Howard] 602.

[caller] 602, yeah, right, 602.

[Howard] Personal knowledge.

[caller] And she lays out how they dont have personal knowledge.

[Howard] Um huh.

[caller] They never could.

[caller] Yep, they never can. It totally destroyed MERS.

[Howard] See, any of these assignments, they cant come up with a certification thatthe document is true and correct because they cant certify it to be true and correct. Theydont have first-hand knowledge under Rule 602 to be able to certify it as true and correct.So theres two rules that apply, then the hearsay rule applies because all theyre doing isoperating on hearsay. They dont have any evidence that theyre saying is true and correctso anything theyre saying is second hand which is hearsaythats Rule 801.

[caller] Howard, is there anything under color of law for rules?

[Howard] The entire system is a color of law.

[caller] Well, I meant the evidence. Is there anything specific under the evidencecode regulation rules for color of law.

[Howard] No, nothing specific because the specifics are covered by the Rules ofEvidence. The Rules of Evidence require that somebody certify it as true and correctotherwise it cant even be presented as evidence. Its not good evidence. Well, they cantget anybody to certify anything as true and correct because nobody was there and saw thetransaction no matter what is. Lets just take an instance like me. Im sixty-seven years old.How they ever going to prove I ever had a drivers license? If I got a drivers license backwhen I was sixteen years old the jerk that worked there that saw me sign the application isdead by now. They were probably twenty, thirty years old at the time. I was only sixteen,that would put them up seventy-five or eighty years old if theyre still alive. Theyre noteven working there if they are still alive but they probably arent still alive. That anapplication that I filled out for a drivers license is true and correct so they cant prove thatI ever had a drivers license.


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[caller] Howard, Id like to take that one more step, true, correct and complete.

[Howard] Well, thats what a certification is supposed to be, true, correct andcomplete and they cant certify itthats the point. Rule 901 requires that they certify it as

true and correct. The person certifying it has to have first-hand knowledge and be able tocertify that he has first-hand knowledge, that he was there and saw the transaction takeplace no matter what transaction it is, getting a drivers license, making a loan, applying fora credit card, anything like that. Well, theres nobody available to certify such a thing.

[caller] I like to even go one step further, true, correct, complete, with fulldisclosure.

[Howard] Well, thats not part of the statement thats used on a certification.

[caller] Iit whenever I can, true, correct, complete, with full disclosure.

[caller] Whats this thing about the Rule 801, 901, 602, I mean where do you findthat?

[Howard] They are the Rules of Evidence. You can get them from the law library. Justphotocopy them out of the Rules of Evidence book for the state rules of court or the federalrules of court, which ever one youre going into or if you contact West Publishing theyllsell you a set of the books. If you buy them in paperback theyre cheap. I should say thattheyre cheap. I got Moores Federal Rules pamphlet, its a three-volume set. The threevolumes stacked up, one on top of the other, measure about eight inches tall so theyre notlittle books, theyre paperback and back in 1988 that set of three books cost me $140 butthats a good set of books to get, Moores Federal Rules pamphlet. It not only gives you therules but it annotates it and explains it and gives you court cases to back it up.

[caller] Howard, when they make a claim like its bold assertations and legalassumptions is the same thing that applies in this casecorrect?

[Howard] Right. When they dont back the claim up with any evidence then alltheyre doing is making bold assertations and legal conclusions and thats not sufficient tocarry a case through. If they have to evidence that make facts out of what they said then itlacks fact. When it lacks fact it can be dismissed easily under a motion to dismiss underRule 12(b)(6), failure to state a claim upon relief can be granted. And most cases tht arefiled by lawyers are not supported by any facts. Theyre just bold assertations and legalconclusions and almost every case filed by a lawyer can be dismissed if we just knewenough to be able to explain why theyre bold assertations, why there arent any facts here,why theres no evidence under Rule 901, Rule 602, and that all of their allegations arenothing but hearsay and arent admissible and for these reasons the case should bedismissed for failure to state a claim upon which relief can be grantedsimple littleexplanation, isnt it?

2010May27 - Howard Griswold Conference Call

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