2010Mar11 - Howard Griswold Conference Call

7/31/2019 2010Mar11 - Howard Griswold Conference Call

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Howard Griswold Conference CallThursday, March 11, 2010Partial

Howard Griswold Conference calls:218-844-3388 pin 966771# (6 mutes & un-mutes),

Thursdays at 8 p.m., Eastern Time.6 Mutes and un-mutes

Conference Call is simulcast on:www.TheREALPublicRadio.Net

Starting in the first hour at 8 p.m.

Note: there is a hydrate water call Mondays, same time and number and pin #.Howards home number: 302-875-2653 (between 9:30, a.m, and 7:00, p.m.)

Mickeys debt collection call is 8:00 p.m., Eastern Time, Wednesday night. The number is 712 432 8773 and the pin number is 947975#.

All correspondence to:Gemini Investment Research Group, POB 398, Delmar, Del. 19940

(do not address mail to Howard Griswold since Howard has not taken up residence in thatmailbox and since hes on good terms with his wife he isnt likely to in the foreseeable

future.)

"All" Howard's and GEMINI RESEARCH's information through the years, hasbeen gathered, combined and collated into 3 "Home-Study Courses" and

"Information packages" listed atwww.peoples-rights.com "Mail Order" DONATIONSand/or Toll-Free 1-877-544-4718 (24 Hours F.A.Q. line)Dave DiReamer can be reached at:[email protected]

Peoples-rights has a new book available from The Informer:Just Who Really Owns the United States, the International Monetary Fund, FederalReserve, World Bank, Your House, Your Car, Everythingthe Myth and the Reality.

Hell take $45 for the book to help with ads, but $40 would be ok which includes shipping($35 barebones minimum)

www.peoples-rights.com c/o 1624 Savannah Road, Lewes, Delaware 19958

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Often you can find a transcript or a partial one for the weeks call at the following website:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/peoplelookingforthetruth

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It would be best if you mute your phone when you first come on, then un-mute it when youwant to talk and then re-mute it.

You can use the *6 button on your phone or use the phones mute buttonSpeaker phones and cell phones are not desirable as they can chop up the call badly

occasionally.

If you are recording the call and leave the phone unintended, please mute!!!!!Note, on October 30th someone left the phone un-muted and coupled television audio intothe phone making the conference call conversations very difficult.

When you are not muted be careful of making noise such as breathing hard into the phonesmicrophone or rubbing the mouthpiece or not reducing extraneous noise across the room.

Cell phones can pick up wind noise when used outside and also if not in a primaryreception zone can couple noise into the call.

Excessive echoes and noise will terminate the conference call.Cell phones and speaker phones can cause echoes.

Keep the call quiet, dont make Howard climb out of his mailbox and bop you one.

*******************************************************************Note: the telephone lines are usually quite noisy and therefore it would be prudent to slowyour speech down otherwise your words and meaning will be lost.

Suggestion to everyone (even Howard):Get a phone with a privacy or mute button. This is much more convenient than star-6 andmore rapid to use. It can also be used as a cough button since it can be used rapidly. Try it,

youll like it.*********************************************************************

01:01:57.979[Howard] In my mind theres a great question of how many people would even botherto take the time to study the information that we are putting together about how youbecome a resident agent of the governmenthow the principal and agent law appliesthatthe principal has complete and total authority over his agents. If you do anything that thegovernment doesnt like as an agent the government can punish you. This is basicallyexactly what we just talking about here with the doctors. If the doctors dont promote thedrugs that the Food and Drug Administration wants promoted then theyll do something toyou to prevent you from continuing on in medicine and possibly even come up with phonycharges and prosecute you so that you cant continue to do what youre doing. See howthey treat their agents? They do the same thing with you if you dont get their driverslicense because all the rest of the agents have a drivers license so youre going to have onetoo and were going to force you to do it and if you dont do it well put you in jail or wellfine you or well take your car away from you or well fine you so much that we can takeyour house away from youanything they can do to force you to cooperate and they canget away with doing it because youre an agent. So, the trick would be to legally terminatethat agency, not real complicated. The more I study the less involved it seems to be but ithas to be specifically done with legal terminology and it cant be done with just commonuse words. It has to be recognizable in law. But the thing I found in a little further studywas, an agent can terminate his agency at any time he wishes to do so. He really doesnt


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have to have a reason to do itjust do it. It would be advantageous for you to know thereason though because I assure you a judge is going to want to know what you mean bythis. Well, what do you mean, you terminate, what agency, youre going to have to explainit, and if you dont the judge is going to ignore it. So itll do you no good unless you canexplain. And thats what worries me is most people will not even bother to read the

paperwork that goes with this that explains why and they wouldnt be able to explain why.And if you dont and you cant because you were too lazy to bother to read and the judgeproceeds against you as though youre an agent its your own damned fault for not puttingout an effort and I cant feel sorry for you but there was one thing that bothered me and Ihad to get through this and figure it out and that is an agency that is coupled with aninterestnow, were talking about something like the security interest. Any kind of aninterest whatsoever that is developed by the agency can you terminate that at will? Andwhat it says is, there is a class of cases in which the principal has no authority to revoke theagency. This is where, as it is said by the courts, that the agency is coupled with an interestas when the agent has an interest in the subject matter of the agency by way of a security.Now, registration of all property with the government whether its your body through the

birth certificate, your labor through social security, your car through auto registration, yourpuppy dog through dog registration establishes an interest in that property for thegovernment who is the holder of the instrument that you filed as a registration document.So that left me sort of cold for a while until I thought far enough and looked up a few otherthings related to the next paragraph. The next paragraph says, for example, when a personhas possession of property with the power to sell and apply the proceeds to the payment ofa debt that is due such as a case that constitutes an agency coupled with an interest. Now, insmall print theres an explanation of this. The name is Mr. Graves wishing to sell his houseand the lot that it sits on as he has to move to another place because of his health or anyother kind of a reason, entered into an agreement with a local real estate agent in whosehands he put the house for sale whereby the agent advanced him $1000 which amount he isto deduct from the sale price when the house is sold. Mr. Graves cannot, without theagents consent revoke this agreement as the agent has an agency coupled with an interest.The interest is the money that he gave to him. Money is a form of property so that wouldapply to any type of property that was given but as I studied this further and further Irealized that its only the principal that cant revoke the agency when the agency is coupledwith an interest like the registration of property. It goes on to say, as to the rights of theagent to renounce the agency it seems that he also has the power but not the right to

renounce the agency at will and the renunciation may be expressed or implied as if theagent abandons his work. Theres the loophole. It took a while to figure this out. But, asthe agent, if you abandon the relationship where the agency took place then the principalmay consider the agency as renounced. Now, I knew there as a connection here that had tobe followed through. Just giving notice to the Secretary of States office that we arerenouncing the agency with the state of, city of, the United States government, the town of,the county of, whatever place that youre affiliated with and they assume this residentagency status to exist with you and by giving notice to the Secretary of State that yourerenouncing all these agency statuses is not the only thing that were going to have to do.Were going to have to terminate all of these registrations, the birth certificate, the socialsecurity, the auto registration, the land deed registration, everything is going to have to beterminated because thats the only way to terminate the work that youve been doing.


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Youve been working with these people, cooperating with them, given them your propertyto hold and thats how the agency attached and just to send in a notice to the Secretary ofStates office that youre relinquishing the agency and then to continue to allow the landdeed to be in the recorder of deeds office without notice that youre terminating it orSocial Security Administration to have a copy of your application for social security

without notice that youre terminating it, its falling short of whats necessary to stop doingthe work, abandoning the work that you were doing with them. This is going to force morepeople to have to make up their minds that they dont want all these benefits to governmentthey dont want government to hold their land deed, they dont want a social securitynumber, they dont want to work in a job that requires a social security number that theygot to force the company they work for to accept a W8BEN form thats been discussed onour program many times before which is in lieu of a W4 form that they want you to fill outwhich shows that youre a private individual, that youre not an agent of government andyoure not a taxpayer and that they cannot deduct taxes from you and consider you to be aUS individual receiving income. This is going to get to where the people are going to haveto have a pretty full understanding, an explanation of why theyre doing this, that they

dont want governments benefits, privileges and opportunities and theyre relinquishingany connection with the government and theyre going to have to able to explain this. Andthats the part that worries me. Most people wont read, much less will they read it morethan once, which is what you do when you study something. They would also have a fearof not getting government services and benefits so they would not want to give it up. So,Im not sure that this is going to be a real big thing. There are some people that areintelligent enough and gutsy enough that they would relinquish the agency, they wouldterminate all registrations. As a matter of fact, we have some on the line tonight that haveterminated registrations of almost every type. But we have new people on the line whonever heard of something like this and wondering what Im talking about. And we haveother people on the line that have heard about it year after year because Ive talked about itfor years and they have not done a thing to put themselves in a clean position of removingall of their registrations from government and clearing themselves as being resident agentsof the government. So, it bothers me. This has been worrying me as weve studied into thisand looked into it further that this is going to be a awkward thing for some people to do andan easy thing for a few people to do. Im going to continue to put it together but I dontthink that this is going to be a major move in changing the corruption of government.Maybe they wont be able to bother one individual anymore because he knows how toexplain it and he does it well and he files the papers correctly and he revokes registrationscorrectly and maybe hell be a free person or she will be a free person, one who followsthrough, but itll be a very small number. The government will still have the principlecontrol as principal over the majority of the population and will continue to do the samething in the courts and continue the corruption of peoples private property and peoplesliberty that has been going on simply because so many of the people would be afraid towithdraw from government because, well, gee, I dont be able to go to their hospitals anduse their doctors. What do you want to go to a drug-pushing doctor for? Dieyourebetter offdie naturally. Dont let them poison you. Its a slow miserable death when theypoison you with drugs. Why do you want to die slowly? Just die naturally. But some peoplearent going to look at it that way. But theres a very good reason for doing this and itswritten right in the law of principal and agent and that is the revoking by the principal or


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relinquishing by the agent of this agency status during the time of war. In case the peopledont realize it were in a state of war. The government has declared war on the privatepeople of America and taking their private property for their personal use and benefitwithout compensating us. Thats an act of war and were in a state of war and weve beenin a state of war since the Civil War. Nothings changed, the Civil Wars not over, its still

going on. It doesnt have the same purpose behind it that created the Civil War anymoreat least not openly. But some of the purpose of corrupt people that were in government thatorganized this did it for the purpose of controlling the people through money and its stillgoing on today and when somebody is controlling you its an act of war. And under the lawof principal and agent it says it is the general law in this countryand by the way, thatgeneral law comes from the international laws which this country has adoptedthat theexistence of a state of war between the country of the principal and that of the agentterminates the agency automatically. Actually, all this agency is automatically terminatedbecause we are indeed in a state of war. Nobodys shooting guns at you except when youdont do what youre toldthen theyll shoot you. If they can force you to do it by goingto court and putting you in jail and try to coerce you they wont shoot you. But if it gets too

far along and youre not willing to cooperate there have been many incidents in thiscountry where government has come out and just shot people because they wontcooperate. This is a state of war. Even though theres lot of guns going off, theres nouniform military personnel standing at the door in front of your house making you dothingswe havent gotten to that point. Theres no military conflict out in the fields asoften happens in war like what you see on the television about whats going on over inAfghanistan and Iraq. Its not that type of a war. A war has many facets and one of them isjust plain taking peoples property and forcing people to cooperate with the overridingcontrolling factions. We have an overriding controlling faction and its these corruptlawyers that are in office from the Presidents office. Ninety percent of them have beenlawyers. The Congressmen and House of Representatives, ninety-nine percent of them arelawyers. The state legislatures, ninety-nine percent of them are lawyers. Its these lawyersthat have put together a takeover of this country and its laws and its governments and thereis evidence of that in the statutes where they did it and thats what Im putting together, alittle sort of like a pamphlet explaining how and when they did it and what they did withtheir revised laws. They revised the laws to suit their ability to control you and yourproperty. Thats an act of war against the people. The American people are so docile asDave said a few minutes ago, were frogs and they just threw us in a bucket of cold waterand put the bucket on the heat. As it heats up were boiling. Theyre destroying us, theyrekilling us with their drugs, their taxation, their control over our property and our lives andour business and our food. Yeah, definitely, yes, the food supply. Its the biggest problemwe have thats killing us. Its not the cigarettes despite media bullshit and peoples asininebeliefs about it. Its the food supply thats killing people. Their control of the water too, thechemicals that they put into everything, the food supply and the water are adverse to thebody. This war that is going on is becoming more intense and its going to get more intenseif some of our representatives allow things like this health care bill to be passed andimplemented because its going to put the pressure on the people to do certain things. Itsgoing to restrict certain people from doing certain things. Im too old to be worth anythingso they wont put me in a hospital and treat me anymore because I dont have enough of alife left thats going to be productive so they dont want to treat meIm too old. This is


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part of the program that theyre putting together in this health care thing to be able tocontrol who gets health care and how much expense there is. Thats why theyre telling youits going to cut down on expenses. Theyre going to cut out the health care to elderlybecause the elderly are the biggest expense on health care and were not productiveanymore. We dont produce an income and pay taxes and support the system so were a

burden to the system. Thats what this package is all about. It has nothing to do with therhetoric youve been hearing on television. A little common sense is all you should need tobe able to see that, that the elderly is getting to be the largest part of the population in thiscountrythe war babies. The war babies are the ones born between 1941 and 1946.Theres a whole lot of rhetoric about thethey dont actually call them the war babies butthey got some other name for them. It comes all the way up through the fifties and thesixties.

[caller] Baby boomers.

[Howard] Yeah, baby boomers. Well, the baby boomers were actually only the war

babies. The largest birth rate in the history of the world occurred between 1941 and 1946while the war was going on. The ones that came along after that theyre not baby boomers,theyre not the war babies but they all are in the next ten years or so going to be in thesocial security and Medicare rolls too. Theres no where near as many of them from 46 onas there was from 41 to 46. That was the population boom. Thats the group thats gettingold and registering. Somebody told me and I have no idea how much accuracy there is to itbut its probably quite possible that every month there are 15,000 new people signing upfor social security and Medicare. I think thats a small numberI really think its biggerthan that. But even if we take it at 15,000 just think of the amount of money that thatscosting the government in social security checks every month for these people andMedicare payments for all their ailments because theyre sickly, theyre weak, theyre invery bad health because of the food supply that the government has controlled andweakened our health with over the years. The government caused this problem themselves.I think they hoped that wed die before we got this old but its amazing how resilient thebody is, how it can stand contamination and disruption of the bodys functions because ofcontamination and theyve been contaminating the food by the processing and by thechemicals they used to grow it, depleting the nutrition thats in it terribly. Youre lucky ifits got three percent of its natural nutrition left in it by the time its fully grown andharvested and then if its processed in any way youre lucky if its got one percent of thenutritional value left. So, youre not getting the proper nutrition and its loaded with allkinds of toxins and contaminants in the processing and the growth with the chemicals thatthey use. So your bodys consuming all of this stuff and its deteriorating your body so bythe time you get up into these years of retirement from sixty-two on up and start filing forsocial security and Medicare youre at a deteriorated state of health and youre going toneed medical care. {Oh, what a little health education could have done exposing the realfacts of nutrition Seewww.westonaprice.org} If you cooperate with that kind of medicalcare youre going to need it and most people do cooperate because they know no better. Itscosting the government more money than the government has. Its taking them broke sothey have to make some new law. They have to cut their expenses in some way. The onlyway to cut that expense is to train the doctors to make a determination that youre not a
http://www.westonaprice.org/http://www.westonaprice.org/http://www.westonaprice.org/


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productive person anymore, youre not entitled to any medical services and just refuse themedical service. That way the government wont have to pay for it.

[caller] Howard, isnt that socialism?

[Howard] Why certainly, but what the hell do you think social security was in the firstplace?

[caller] I understand

[Howard] Its socialism. Why did we join, why did we cooperate? Because we werebrain dead, we didnt pay attention. We didnt put a stop to this back in 1936 and 37 whenit first came out when it should have been stopped.

[caller] Brain washed.

[Howard] We accepted the brain washing. We cooperated, we participated. Iremember in Catholic church as a young kid the sermon that a priest gave that we shouldall sign up for social security. Its a very good wonderful thing because it helps take care ofthe elderly and thats a duty that we have that we should take care of the elderly. Well, hepromoted it so damned well you just got to go along. Hes a lying sack of shit but hepromoted it so good that you just got to go along.

[caller] I dont see anywhere in the alleged Constitution that allows them to give usbrain washing or health care.

[Howard] You are absolutely correct. As a matter of fact I had a thought in my mindof maybe digging out a book I have here. I have a whole series of books called the papersand writings of the presidents. Now, it only comes up to, I think, Eisenhower. I didnt getany of the newer ones. This was a collection that somebody was getting rid of. It was in aflea market and I think I paid $10 for the whole collection and it starts out all the way backat the beginning of the Presidents and the different notes that they wrote and the messagesthat they sent to Congressmen and it covers their veto messages when they vetoed laws.And Andrew Johnson, the President who followed Abraham Lincoln vetoed and wrote along veto message vetoing the Civil Rights Act of 1866 which in case, if youre not awareof the history, was the beginning of the language used in the 14 th Amendment. And becausehe vetoed the Civil Rights Act as a legislative act they converted it to an amendment andpushed the Amendment through and made it look like it got passed when, in fact, the 14th

Amendmentthe 13th, 14th, and 15th were never properly ratified and passed into law butthey still appear on the books. They appear that they have validity and they are in use andaccepted by all states and are being promoted as the law today and were living under thoseamendments and those amendments were destructive to this country and the peoplesfreedom in this country but were living under it. But Andrew Johnson explained why thegovernment did not have the authority to regulate education to regulate health care, toregulated finances for individuals such as social security and insurances and such as that.Now, he didnt spell it out in all those words but I got to dig that out. I got it around here


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somewhere in my piles of books and maybe read it to you because hes explained why theConstitution did not give the authority to government to get into these kinds of things anddo these kinds for people. Well, if we understand that then we could understand the part ofthe 10th Amendment that exists that says that the people have the last word. We have theright to nullify anything that the government does as it applies to us individually in the

event that our state legislatures dont nullify it. Now, believe it or not the State of Virginialegislature has a law in process of going through the legislature and being voted on that willallow them to nullify the entire health care bill if it is passed. And according to the news 34other states have similar legislation being drafted and proposed before their legislatures tonullify such things as this. Theres going to be a battle in government, not out here in thestreets but in government, over this health care thing. Theres already a pretty good battlegoing on over gun control. I dont know what the Supreme Courts final decision is goingto be in the Chicago case but it sounds like from the discussion that was on the news aboutit that the United States Supreme Court is going to rule the same way they ruled on theWashington, D.C. case that the gun legislation is unconstitutional and its struck down andit cannot be applied. Theyre losing ground on the control of the people slowly but surely

through this process that we have of using the courts, taking it to the highest courteventually, and through the states ability to nullify which is something new. The statelegislatures have never ever considered doing anything like this in past history. This is anew concept that theyre just getting into. Its been there throughout the two centuries and afew years of the Constitutions existence but theyve never used it. Theyre starting towake up and starting to realize that they have these powers of relinquishing and renouncingthe things that government makes them do. And as the politicians begin to recognize ithopefully some of the people will begin to recognize it and maybe this concept that Ivecome up here of relinquishing the agency will grow and become a much bigger thing. Butas I see it, right now, I still dont see that the people are going to jump on it and think its agreat idea and I think the main reason is because there are so many people that think theyneed health care. {It would appear that all benefits are a chain around the peoplesnecks} and theres a hell of a lot of people including a bunch of politicians that are behindthis health care plan because so many people in their district want the health care. Well,theyre not going to get much out of it but they dont know that. As long as the people wantit government will give it to youtheyll give you anything you ask for. {Just watch outfor the fish hook}. Ask them to control your neighbor and theyll make laws to controlyour neighbor because you asked. Its against the law to control your neighbor but theylldo it anyway just because you asked. Theyll control your health. I dont like thisif youjust stop and think about the words this is a health control bill. Why do you want them tocontrol your health?

[caller] It controls a lot more than that.

[Howard] Yeah, it sure does. Itll control your finances right out of your pocket too ifyou participate with it.

[caller] Can I comment on that gun control you mentioned?

[Howard] Yeah, have you heard anything more on that Chicago case?


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[caller] No, but it relates more probably to the Washington case. Now, we all knowthat Washington is separate and distinct. The problem arises is they have come up with areverse psychology I might say in that the case decision allows the community within thestate to make more decisions upon gun control which would make it here in the East Coast

in New Jersey very dangerous. In other words my neighbor on the rest of the block or thecity or the county would have control over my individual right per se regardless if its guncontrol or not. That is the theory behind that.

[Howard] Yes, I agree and what theyre doing is theyre setting up another case to bebrought in the future but in the meanwhile theyll try to regulate your guns locally insteadof regulating them on a statewide or nationwide basis. Its narrowing down. Youre goingto find some leaders in local government that think we should be armed. Here in Delawarewe got three counties. Thats as big as this state is, theres only three counties. Two of thecounties, I guarantee you, would never make laws eliminating a persons individual right toa gun. These two counties might make laws requiring you to have a gun and prosecuting

you and putting you in jail if you dont have a gun and dont have enough rounds ofammunition. If the law says you got to have 1000 rounds and you dont have it they mightjail you. This county would be harsh in forcing you to have protective means. The thirdcounty, up north, is a suburb of Philadelphiathats all it is, its not in Pennsylvania.Wilmington is nothing but a suburb of Philadelphia. Its all business intertwined with thebig business of Philadelphia and those people up in that area they would think guns are aterrible thing. That county would probably pass laws that you cant have a gun.

[Jim] Well, the criminals would love that.

[Howard] The lower two counties of Delaware dont even consider that third county tobe a part of Delawarewe ignore it. I think youll find that in a number of the states toothat some of the counties will be in favor of people having guns and self protection andother counties will have these neurotic nuts, religious idiots, that think guns are terriblebecause guns kill people. Guns dont kill people. People that pull the trigger is what killspeople. And some people are supposed to be killed but a lot of people go to church andlisten to the preacher instead of reading the Bible. The Bible says there is a time to kill. Thepreacher says its wrong to kill people. Now, which one you want to believe? You have anoption there.

[Jim] You have to get permission to kill.

[Howard] Ill tell you what, you gave me permission. If I catch you beating some littleold lady up and trying to steal your purse you just gave me permission to kill you and Iwill.

[Jim] If you kill someone of anger, out of lust, out jealousy, then you committedmurder.

[Howard] Thats murder right there.


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[Jim] Yeah, thats murder. But if you kill somebody out of self defense orprotecting someone thats different.

[Howard] Or protecting property.

[Jim] Yeah, just like in the Commandments, thou shalt not murder, not kill,because God killed a whole lot of folks.

[Howard] Youre darned right. I have talked about that before. This entity that we callGod, Hes very strict.

[Jim] Because hes the only one that can take a life, because He can create it, wecant, we have to get permission.

[Howard] Well, we have permission.

[Jim] Yeah, I know, thats why I said, you had that permission.

[Howard] God gave us the ability to create and we create new generations, dont we? Itold a cop one time that we were just discussing at a meeting the control the governmenthas over peoples children and I said, you know what, I brought that daughter of mine intothe world, I created her, and that gives me the right to take her out of this world if she cantbehave herself. I said, I hope to hell she behaves herself because I will take her out of thisworld. He didnt like me at all. I said, well, I dont care if you like me or not, Im tellingyou what the law really isthis is the law of nature. I created it; I have the right to get ridof itshe better behave herself. Well, I got a pretty good little daughter and shes ratherwell behaved. She did act up one time. She almost got herself into trouble but she camethrough it. She got her senses back about her and shes doing fine in lifepretty good kid.

[Jim] Is there a way I can call you tomorrow, Howard?

[Howard] Well, give it a try. If you dont get an answer keep trying. I dont avoidpeople. I just sometimes lately Ive been taking naps. Im still not strong and feeling realgood.

[Jim] Ok, thats why I asked. Ill be coming there pretty soon and I would like toknow if I can come back and see you.

[Howard] Sure.

[Jim] This is Jim from Michigan.

[Howard] Oh, ok, you coming down this way?

[Jim] Hopefully yes. Im coming down there to visit my in-laws in Baltimore.


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[Howard] Baltimores about two and a half hours away from me. I used to travel allover the country. My health is not good enough to do that traveling any more. I woremyself out doing it for twelve years. Thats a good part of what wore me down was all thattraveling. Travelings hard on you. Im just not up it but my doors open. Anybody that can

stop by just please make arrangements, dont just do it.

[Jim] Yeah, I had to give up my driving too. Thats why I dont have commercialdriving anymore now. But you said affidavit.commercial license registrationbrought back to me. Am I correct?

[Howard] Thats right. And the reason why they didnt pay you for the benefit theygot of using your vehicle for their personal use. So, if they didnt pay you and give you justcompensation they got to return it.

[Jim] Ok. Im working on that right now.

[Howard] There is a Biblical predictionI think its in the Book of Revelationabout these last days and it will become very violent. There is a number of different spotsin the Bible, Jesus Christ speaking giving us advice. In the Book of Mathew it tells us inthe last days to trade our purse, meaning our belongings, whatever we havetrade yourpurse for a weapon, a sword. Well, a sword is a weapon, todays weapons are guns or ropesor, well, sometimes words, yes, but many times I think this is getting beyond words. Itsgetting beyond the ability to do this in courts or anything like that although the courts arestarting to turn a little bit to try to adjust things. I dont think theyre going to go farenough. I dont think the adjustments ever going to happen and I think its going to turninto violence and in the Book Revelations it says something to the effect that the blood willbe curb deep in the cities which means an awful lot of killing is going to go on. It also sayshow intense this gets to be, how bad it gets to be will depend upon the people and whatthey do. If more of the people awaken and realize why and just stop participating in thisstuff the violence may not get to be quite so intense. But apparently there will be violencein these times, were heading toward it and, boy, can you see the anger develop in thepeople. These tea party meetings and things like that is a sign that people are angry andupset. But when you listen to these politicians today and what theyre saying, theyre angrytoo.

[Jim] Well, thats what the bankers are banking on, they can make a profit.

[Howard] Well, I got a feeling theyre going to lose out on this one because theyrenot going to be able to finance both sides this time. Its getting out of their control. Whatthey got figured isnt working the way they had it figured.

[Jim] So I guess theyll go to plan B now?

[Howard] Yes, and I think youll see this concept of war that I told you that werealready in accelerating into a more violent war at which time the agency is terminated


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automatically by law and the principal no longer has control over you because youreshooting at the principal. But youre only going to shoot at the principal because theprincipals shooting at you trying to force you to cooperate. Thats the way its going tounwind. Theyre going to force the people by guns to cooperate and the people will rebeland say, no, were not going to cooperate and use the guns back.

[Jim] Thats why Im turning in my license and thats why I getting myregistration back because Im tired of the police out here terrorizing me pulling me overand taking me out of my automobile, confiscating my automobile, putting me in jail, andforcing me to sign things, taking my picture, and doing like Im a criminal or something. Idont think I want their product or their service anymore. Thats why Im terminating itbecause Im not doing it out of just being mean. Im just doing it because Im tired of it.Im not a criminal. Im an American citizen, I work, I do things

[Howard] Thats where the relinquishment of the agency should come in to play andshow them that youre not one of their agents anymore. They dont have the authority over

you and your automobile.

[Jim] Thats what I want. I dont like their product of their services. I dontappreciate it.

[Howard] I dont appreciate their benefits, privileges and opportunities. You call themproducts and servicessame thing. Theyre benefits attached to liabilities. I dont wanttheir benefits. I dont want the liability that attaches to their benefits. Why would I accepttheir benefit when it lays a liability on me that gives them more benefit than I get.

[caller] Howard, question along those same lines, youre talking about beingreimbursed for them using it. However, my understanding is that they would take that likea birth certificate and collateralize it and monetize it. So, in other words, if the car is worth$10,000 you would go ten to thirteen times the amount that it originally was.

[Howard] Thats exactly what theyre doing and isnt that a benefit for them?

[caller] Yes.

[Howard] Did they pay you for it?

[caller] No, they did not. Couldnt we claim the full amount?

[Howard] Yes. Many times Ive talked about it. I got a 1989 Lincoln Town car. Doyou realize that that thing is twenty-one years old now? Its probably worth six or eighthundred dollars. Its only worth about $150 if its worth that much in scrap metal but ifthey want to regulate it and tell me how I can use it then they got to give me the $33,000that it sold for brand new. And argue with them and fight until hell froze over and youknow thats not likely to happen so Id fight for as long as I could live and continue to fightdemanding that they pay me the $33,000 before they get to regulate the use of that car.


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[Jim] How you do that? What kind of a law case is that?

[caller] No, no, no, no, Howard, thats only part of it. What Im speaking of is whenthey monetize our birth certificate they monetize the birth certificate of the car, the MSO.

Yeah, they do the same thing with everything you registertheyre monetizing it, theyreusing it for their benefit.

[caller] So it would be ten times $30,000.

[Howard] Well, its my propertyI know what youre saying.

[caller] Ok. Thank you.

[Howard] But its my property. I can only claim my investment in that property. Icant claim their monetization. But if I claim my investment and prevent them from

monetizing it until they pay me for my investment then they cant monetize it and theycant take it for their benefit, for public use, without paying me just compensation. Thatswhere the law comes in. Thats what kind of case it is to answer the other fellowsquestion. Its a taking of private property for public use without just compensation inviolation of their Fifth Amendment. And by the way, the Fifth Amendment is applicable tothe states through the 14th Amendment and the paragraph in the 14th Amendment that says,no state shall interfere with the life, liberty and property of the citizens of the state. TheSupreme Court has ruled that the 14th Amendment applies the 5th Amendment to the statesnow, even though it didnt originally apply to the states. So they cannot take your privateproperty through the state or the federal government without paying just compensation.Theyre doing it, theyve been doing it, theyve taken everything. They forced us to registerour puppy dogs. That is the least important, least valuable little thing that we have issomething like our puppy dog but they make us license it. Thats a registration of it. Theyactually impose a monetary value on the puppy dog registration just like they do on thebirth certificate and monetize that registration all the way up to your body and the birthcertificate which is the most valuable thing that we have, our own bodies and our ownbodys productive ability which is monetized through the social security applicationitsre-monetized. Theyre getting a tremendous public benefit off of us and our propertywithout giving us just compensation in return for it.

[Jim] I got a letter here. I just got through mailing it back to Michigan Treasuryand the Michigan Department of Collections from the Treasury. They say that I owe them$500 for accountability fee for a suspended licensewhich my license wasnt suspended.And twicethey say they can levy and they can confiscate my bank account andeverything else so I put on there, I do not accept nor consent to these procedures, and Imade a copy of it and I sent it to the Michigan State Treasury and alsothis ladys nameon here, her name, signer, and I called there and I told her, may I speak to this lady thatsent me this letter? And they said, no, you cant. Well, why not? She sent me the letterand she signed it right here. I need to talk to her about the situation that shes talking


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people unhappy and thats why they need a metal detector at the door, thats why they needto operate under phony names, so that you cant find them and go kill them because theyknow that there are some people out here that would go kill them. Way back in the earlyeighties I started checking on some of these people in government and their names and itcame up that they were phony names. They told me what their name was and gave me

some identification card that said that they were government agents. This is their name andthis is the picture and the picture looked like them but I happened to have some insidecontracts and I had the inside contacts run the tag on their car and the registration came upin a completely name than the ID that they showed me that they had from government.

[Jim] Well, thank you for that information.

[caller] Howard, have you ever heard of Lindsay Springer?

[Howard] Ive heard of himyeah.

[caller] He had a large case going for several years against the IRS. He put an IRSagent on the stand in his case and cross examined her and askedI forget her name, Imsorryhe asked her about the documents and signature and she said that that was not hersignature and that she sees 5000 or so letters a month and she cant sign them all. She hasan ok for anybody to sign them or stamp them. She never sees those documents.

[Howard] Yeah. Well, weve gotten into a lot of debt collection cases recently likecredit card debt collection and the lawyer thats going to court and trying to collect thisalleged credit card debt from people has some kind of an affidavit that this debt is true andcorrect and the money is still owing and uncollected from the defendant and its signed bya John Ding-a-ling or somethingMary Ding-a-ling. And we finally got the judges toagree that that affidavit had no validity to be presented to the court as evidence unless theindividual that signed it could be brought into court and questioned because the defendanthas a right to fact their accuser and the judge agreed that we do have the right to face theaccuser. He ordered the lawyer debt collector to bring this individual into the court and thelawyer debt collector withdrew the case. Does that tell you something? This affidavit wassigned by somebody in his office, notarized by somebody in his office. The notary isprobably real but the person who signed it did not sign their own name. They signed afictitious name. Thats why they cant bring the person in.

[Jim] Well, the case should be dismissed.

[Howard] Well, they withdrew the case. We didnt even have to get it dismissedthey withdrew. When the judge ordered them to bring this person in they withdrew theircase.

[caller] Howard, I have a document with a notarys stamp and signature on thedocument for a mortgage but there are no signatures from any agents or people on it.


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[Howard] So what was he notarizing? Interesting how they evade the law by making itappear that theyve done what theyre supposed to do when in fact theyre not doing whattheyre supposed to do. This person who signed in the debt collection affidavits and knowsnothing about the debt, has no experience and knowledge whatsoever and didnt sign theirown name even and yet the notary notarized it. And in a case like what youre talking about

the notary notarized the mortgage papers and theres no signatures on the papers. What thehell was he notarizing? It looked like its legal, doesnt it, because its got a notary on it.

[caller] Technically the notarys in trouble.

[Howard] But theyll never prosecute him because hes one of their people. Theyprotect their own.

[caller] Well, who knows what it is? It draws the conclusion that they get to keepthe original note or mortgage on the particular loan and they can still monetize it out therefor up to forty years.

[Howard] Thats right. They monetize everything that we sign. The only state law thatIve found anywhere in all the states that I have gone into their Uniform CommercialCodes, their commercial law code, and looked at is Virginia that actually told you thewhole story. All the rest of them left part of the words out to explain a signature and howimportant it is. But under the definition of a signaturefor instance, in Delawares Code itsays a signature can be hand written, it can be typed, it can be hand lettered, it can even bea mark that represents an individual and thats where it stopped. Virginias Code went on tosay and this signature is the evidence of credit. Thats the only one that goes far enoughto tell you that what youre doing with your signature is theyre monetizing your creditbased on your signature. Any documentIve said this before. Back around ValentinesDay we were talking about this and I said, if youre going to send your wife a love letter oryour girl friend a love letter and tell her shes just like a bank account to you, youve got alot of interest in her. That would be a cute Valentines card, wouldnt it? You would sign itwith your name. Anything else, always sign it with the debtors phony name because itsthe debtor in this phony commerce that they have doing that is involved in everything. Theonly time you sign your real name is in something you really mean in reality like a loveletter to your wife or your girl friend. Never sign any of these documents with your scriptsignaturealways print. Thats the debtors name, not yours. If you sign your name on adocument that has the printed name on it then youre representing that fictional phonyname thats in all-capital letter printing and they can hold you liable as the representative.Anyway, do you understand what I said about the signature? Your signature is your credit.When you put your signature on any line, on any document of any kind whatsoever, it canbe monetized and used as credit and its your credit. Its your value, your worth, based onyour properties that you have that create the value of credit that you have and they willdeposit it and monetize it and once its deposited it can be re-deposited and re-depositedand re-deposited up to seventeen times I think the law used to say. Now, whether its stillthat big or not, I dont know. But up to seventeen times it can be re-monetized.


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[caller] Howard, I received a census letter in the mail and I want to know how do Iactually address that. I held it up to a light. I noticed that they said that they were going tobe sending it in a form within the next week so I want to know how do I go about sendingthat back or?

[Howard] Somebodys already called me about these census papersseveral peopleand it seems that there are several different ones that are being sent around. On any ofthem it is my thought that what I will do is I will look on this form and find the line thatsays, how many people live in this house, and I will mark two because two live in thishouse, my wife and I and I will put it back in the mail and send it back to themthats all Iwill tell them. Thats all the census is aboutthe count. It is not their damned businesshow much money I make but thats on some of the questionnaires. Its not their businesshow many toilets I have in my house, how many bathrooms or whatever you want to callthem. Its not their business how much I paid for the house or any other of the questionsthat they have on therethats privacy. On the ones that have all those questions what Ihave told people I would do is I would just strike a line from the bottom of the page,

diagonally, up across that paragraph of questions to the top and then out in the column Iwill write, violation of privacy, with a little arrow that points to that line which coverseverything on the page. Ive done this at least six times. I think weve had about six ofthese census papers sent to us in life, in my lifetime that I got and each time thats exactlywhat Ive done. When my wife and I had one daughter and she was home, we were raisingher, we wrote three down. When my daughter grew up, didnt live here anymore, gotmarried, we wrote two. Thats all theyre entitled to know because the whole purpose ofthe census by law is to get the count of people in order to determine how manyrepresentatives were entitled to in the House of Representatives in Congress. Thats theonly purpose of the census. There is no purpose to interfere with your privacy and getanswers to all those questions that they ask on there. So I have just drawn that diagonalline, written a little handwritten note that said, violation of privacy, with a line going overwith an arrow on it to that long line and refused to answer any of those questions. Well,theyve come around and told me I got to answer the questions and I said, no, I dont; itsa violation of privacy and if you force me I will sue you for violating my privacy, and theyleftnever heard from them again. All theyre entitled to is an answer to the address thatthey sent it to, how many people live at that address, one person, two people, five people,whatever your count is thats all theyre entitled to and thats all I would give them. Now,Im not telling you what to do because Im not a lawyer and I dont give advice. Im justtelling you what I would do. You may do the same thing I would do if you wish or youmay fill it in if you wishits up to you.

[caller] Ill do the same thing.

[Dave] I do not wish to commit mail fraud by opening the envelope because its notsent to where I live. I live in Delaware spelled fully out in all lower case with no numbers.They never send anything to me in Delaware. They only send it to some fictitious placecalled capital D, capital E with zip code zone numbers and I dont live in a fictitious federalzone whether its two capital letters or numbered zones. So, rather than commit mail fraudI send it back.


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[caller] I like that one.

[Howard] Dave, some of this stuff is being hand delivered. As a matter of fact, a lot ofits being hand delivered.

[Dave] Its got a return address on what they deliver, dont they? Back it goes.

[Howard] Yeah, I think it doesyes. But like I said, if they hand deliver it they cometo the house, knock on the door and want you to fill it out. You fill out those two and youwrite, violation of privacy for the rest, give it back to them, and tell them to go on theirway. Theyre not entitled to any of that private information and they arent.

[Dave] You mean theyre waiting there while you fill it in?

[Howard] Yeah, in some places thats what theyve been doing. In other places

[Dave] I tell them my time is $5000 an hour and I put my hand out. How much areyou going to pay me for my time? And they look all bewildered and I say, well, get offmy propertygood bye.

[Howard] Right. I agree with that too. Good point.

[Dave] No tickee, no washee.

[Howard] My time is valuable. You going to take up my time to fill some governmentpapers inpay me.

[Dave] Well, I dont vote so I dont give a flickering damn about how manyrepresentatives in their corporation. I dont vote in it anyway.

[Owen]You may also care to note that the census in todays law is only for residents.

[Howard] Thats rightwhich is agents. Now, if we start properly notifying theSecretary of States office that we have relinquish the agency even the census would nolonger apply to us and they couldnt force us in any way to answer the census.

[Dave] By filling it in youre admitting that you are one of those residents.

[Howard] Exactlyyou would be. Well, you are one until we properly relinquish theagency and people dont realize that. We dont have any Americans left in America.Everybodys a resident of one of these governments because they presume you to be aresident just because you live near this government business. Its a presumption. As amatter of fact its based on the 14th Amendment. The 14th Amendment opening paragraphsays its a presumption, All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject tothe jurisdiction of the United States and of the state in which they reside. Theres your


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[Howard] Ok. Minnesotas a place. The State of Minnesota is the government. Youlive in the place called Minnesota. Youre not a citizen of the government. Youre not amember, an operating participating member of government working for the governmentthats who are citizens of the State. The people that are in the government and you dont

want to admit that youre a part of the State because if you do then you fall right into thecategory of the 14th Amendment and a resident of the State and a citizen of the UnitedStates.

[caller] May I make a comment then? Someone gave me a brief from the SupremeCourt 1875 Cruickshank. Maybe youre familiar with that?

[Howard] Vaguely.

[caller] In three pages the Supreme Court explains what the word, State, means andin what context. It doesnt contradict what you said, its just very subtle and difficult.

[Howard] Yeah, it is. Maybe I can find some wordingI looked at that case yearsago. Thats why I said, vaguely familiar with it. What was it again?

[caller] Cruickshank1875.

[Howard] And who was it versus?

[caller] I think its the United States. Its in my briefcase. Ill go find it and Illcome back then Ill know exactly what it is.

[Dave] Make a copy and mail it to Howard.

[Howard] That Supreme Court case, I could pull it right up on the internet.

[caller] Ill just go get it and then you guys can continue.

[caller] Harold, is that early of a Supreme Court case law, I guess, as we call it. Idont know if it was signified as a versus somebody else. They had a different designationearly-on, did they not?

[Howard] Only cases like in re somebody or something like that.

[caller] Ok, Ive seen some others, very unknown. I didnt know how to look themup when they got to be that early because theres no versus. Its almost like a designationfrom England.


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[Howard] Well, even so it wasgeez, I cant think of one of the cases. Dave, help meremember, the one in New York where they said that the people of New York were not theState of New York.

[Owen]In re Merriam, estate.

[Howard] There was no versus. In re meant against the estate of Merriam.

[Dave] And because the people are not a party to the Constitution they cannot raiseit in their cases which is why bother talking about all this Congress passed crap. None of itapplies to live natural people.

[Howard] Thats the point and the only way you can raise the Constitution is to raisethe fact that they did not abide by their constitutional limitations and that became a takingof my private property by imposing these regulations that they created. You dont haveconstitutional rights. Only the government has constitutional rights. Youre part of the

citizenry according to the explanation that was given by Madison in his dissertation fromthe constitutional convention notes in a book called The Federalist Papers and heexplained that the people are the citizenry but theyre not citizens, that the citizen is themember of government. The people in government are citizens. And if you look in BlacksLaw Dictionary it tells you that in the definition of a citizen. It says the citizen is a memberof the political community Well, you have to be a member of the political community,a part of government, in order to be a citizen. This is what theyre trying to forceeverybody to be, residents and citizens within their government so that everybody comesunder the government rules and regulations and that they can collect taxes from you,impose regulations on your property, control your property, make you register the propertywith them so that they can use the monetary value of your property. This is all corruptionof the intent of the original Constitution and the original government that was set up in thecountry. Its been corrupted terribly. Ive said many times I am not adverse to thisgovernment. I dont want it destroyed. I just want the corruption stopped.

[caller] Howard, in Blacks there is no citizenry. Theres citizens but no citizenry.

[Howard] No, its not defined in Blacksnope. The only time it was ever mentionedwas in The Federalist Papersby Madison in that explanation that the citizenry was therepublican form of government.

[caller] Do you know what one that was?

[Howard] Yeah, Madison Paper Number 39.

[Howard] Oh, good, thank you.

[Howard] Ill read it to you if I can find it real quick. I keep this right handywe keepreferring to this. Madison, paper number 39 ofthe Federalist Papers, the paragraph thatsimportant in that is he says, the difference between the federal and the national


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government as it relates to the operation of the government is by the adversaries of the planof the convention supposed to consist in this. And thats all leading into it. The importantpart is that in the former, the former, of course, being the federal, the powers operate onthe political bodies composing the confederacy in their political capacitiesthat meansthe states. In the latter the national government was the latter, on the individual citizenry

composing the nation in their individual capacities,in other words, the private peoplethe national government applies to the private people and the federal governmentapplies to the governments of the United States and of the states, is what hes saying, andonly to those citizens of those governments does it apply. The national citizenry was not tobe bothered by the governmentit was separate and distinct, because the nationalgovernment doesnt really exist. Did you ever see any books called the Code of NationalLaws? There arent anythey dont make national laws. They make federal laws, theymake state laws, thats part of the confederacy of the states. The states are confederatedtogether with a parent corporation called the United States. They work together. They havethe power to make laws, rules and regulations, regulating their own conduct. They have nopower to make laws, rules or regulations imposing anything upon the individual in his

individual capacity yet we dont live that way today, do we?

[caller] Howard, on that Section 2 he was referring to, just a few minutes ago. Illread that once. Listen to it. It talks about two different types of citizens in that section. Itsays, the citizens of each state, so thats one type of citizen, shall be entitled to allprivileges and immunities of citizens in the several states. So you got two different typesof citizens there, the way I look at it.

[Howard] Still, theyre the citizens of the State and the State is the government. Andthe government can only make these rules and privileges and benefits and hand them out tothe people that are in the government not to the rest of the people. The private people areprivate people. Theyre not citizens, theyre not the citizens of the State or the citizens ofthe United States. Way back when I first got involved in this so called tax protestmovement or whatever the hell youpatriot movement When I first got involved thiswas back in 1979 when somebody invited me to a meeting and I sat there and listened tothem and they were talking about taxes, taxes, taxeseverything was taxes. There was atax protest movement. I really didnt agree with them. I listened but I didnt agree withthem and I questioned them about something. I said, youre complaining about filing thesetaxes and youre complaining about this 1040 form and the top of the 1040 form says thatthis form is a US Individual Return of Income. Can you explain those words to me? Whatin the hell is a US Individual? And how could I possibly return income to the US if I didntget it from the US. Suppose I got it working for you, whoever you are. You paid me to putnew storm windows on your house. And way back in my early years in the constructionbusiness thats what I started out doing putting storm windows and storm doors on and thenputting roofs on the next thing you know Im building houses and the next thing you knowIm building office buildings and big buildings, shopping centers, and I grew into a fairlybig business. But I started out just selling storm windows and putting them on peopleshouses. As a kid, seventeen years old with my own little business, and I said, I got themoney from my customers. I didnt get the money from the US. The US is thegovernment. How could I return any income to the US that I got from the US if I didnt get


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it from the US? And what is a US Individual? What does that mean? And nobody couldclarify that for me. Finally, in getting into some of the cases the civil rights cases of 1883covered a lot of this and that was what I studied and I looked at the Cruickshank case. Idont recall there being anything that stood out to me at that time but then again, what littleI knew at that time and what I know today from all these studies Im sure therell be

something today that would stand out that didnt stand out back then because I wouldnthave recognized it back then. But what I did recognize was those civil rights cases of 1883talked about citizenship because that was a big thing. The 14th Amendment created acitizenship that never existed before and thats what those cases explained that thegovernment had extended the privilege of citizenship to a certain class of people that hadnthad citizenship before because the only citizens that existed before were the citizens of thestate government and the citizens of the federal government. That was how I began tounderstand the difference between the citizenships that you dont want to claim to be acitizen of the state unless youre actually an operating member of the state government.You dont want to claim to be a US citizen unless youre an operating member of the USgovernment neither of which fit me. So, the question was, what am I? And the fact is, what

I am I finally found out is a private citizen or a private person as opposed to a state citizenor a US citizen. If theyre going to classify us all as some type of citizen what type ofcitizen would I be? Well, Id be a private citizen. A private citizen is outside of theirjurisdictional authority to control. A state citizen is within their authority to control. Afederal or US citizen is within their authority to control. Theyre presuming under the 14 th

Amendment that we are all residents and citizens of the State. And this is what Im tellingyou, we have to relinquish this residency and abandon any dealings or business with thegovernment in order to be free people if you wish to be free. But if you wish to be free yougot to realize that you cant go back to the government and ask for any of their benefits.

[caller] That means that if you are a disabled person and youre someone whoreceives SSI, does that mean that you should just relinquish the SSI and Everything thatyou buy is obviously taxed so you just take it into court and you say, well, this is obviousproof that or a cause of action that there is theft, that property rights were violated and thatyoure a private citizen and that theres no means for a tax so therefore the pre-litigantreliefI guess Im not saying this rightIm not

[Howard] Youre confusing me completely. Let me give you an explanation and itllsave you from all this. The government made themselves a serious mistake in creatingthese social security and social assistance programs like Medicare and disability insuranceand all that kind of stuff. We made a mistake of joining up and signing up for it in the firstplace. We were not supposed to do this. There is no law requiring us to do this. The lawapplied to citizens of the federal government employees and citizen employees of the stategovernments and the political subdivisions of the states like city, county and towngovernments and thats all it applied to. It legislatively did not apply to the private peopleand couldnt apply to the private people. The lawyers duped us into this. The lawyers toldemployers of businesses that they had to get social security numbers from the people whowanted to work for the business so the employers made us go out and get a social securitynumber and we made a mistake of agreeing and going out and getting the thing. But the bigmistake that government made was that they knew we werent required, that they couldnt


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even make us participate in this function, this activity. Even if they did get us to participatein it they had no right to have us participating in it and they gave us the right in Title 22 ofthe United States Code to revoke any relationship with the IRS and Social Security if wewanted to. But in that same act, in Title 22, they stated emphatically that they cannot denyyou the benefits once you became eligible for the benefits and the way you became eligible

was to sign up and participate in the first place. So, if youre receiving SSI, Social SecurityDisability Benefits or youre on Social Security receiving the regular Social Securitypayments they cannot take those payments away from you even if you relinquish youragency and terminate your relationship with Social Security. It only terminates yourliability to pay them anything but their liability to pay you still existsthey cant get out ofit. They really put themselves in a bad position, didnt they?

[caller] Why are they liable?

[Howard] Because they made a contract and they have to stand by the contract andthey know darned well if they didnt stand by the contract there would be tremendous

violence in the country. Now, I see that day coming anyway. I see Social Security runningout of money and people not getting their checks and I can see elderly people with awalker, disabled people with a walker, heading down the road, walking with their walkertoward the Social Security building with a one-gallon can of gasoline under the fingers onone side of the walker and a flap of matches under the finger on the other side of the walkersaying, Ill burn those bastards, they owe me that money. I can see that day coming. common sense to realize that if these people dont get the money that they think theyreentitled to they will become violent and government knows that.

[caller] You said Title 22 of what section?

[Howard] United States CodeI dont have the section number in front of me, but itsa little section in Title 22 called Social Security. They cannot get out of their duty to payyou the benefits but you can get out of your duty to be liable to them by terminating yourregistration of social security. That terminates your liability including the liability to payincome taxes because the income tax is based on you becoming a participating member inthe social security system.

[Ed] They bank on the fact that youre ignorant of the way that they capitalize onyour social security number.

[Howard] Every bit of what were talking about they bank on the ignorance of thepeople and education manages to maintain the ignorance.

[Ed] Thats why they fund the schools.

[Howard] The only way youre going to find this stuff out is do what Ive done. Ivespent thirty years of my life reading their law books, searching and studying these differentthings and trying to find out their purpose and intent and thats beyond just reading thecode book. You have to go into the legislative enactments like the Statues of Congress at


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Large and look that up and find out what the legislative purpose of these statues is. It was alot of work.

[caller] Legislative statute of enactment?

[Howard] Yeah, the enactment that was done. It can be found in the books called TheStatutes of Congress at Large and every state has a similar set of books. The originallegislative enactment is put into a set of books and they keep track of everything that theydid. Every state has a book. What they call it in the different states I dont have a name onit but I have the Maryland enactments up to some date, some time in the forties, I believe itis.

[caller] Is that because every state has a different constitution?

[Howard] Not only that every state does thing in a little bit different way and theyname things by different names.

[caller] So are you saying every state being a fictitious government is of its own,its fake. Every state by state is really fake and theres no

[Howard] Well, the reason why its fake is because theyre corporations and acorporation is fake, its not real. The purpose of a corporation is to set something up thatsnot real to do business through so the liability doesnt pass through this phony thing andcome to the real person. Thats whole purpose of corporations and governments are allcorporations so theyre all faketheyre pretend. But they have authority as long assomebody will pay attention to the authority. Suppose I got together my Mafia crowd allthe way across this country if I contact every one of them and pull them all together Iwould have one hell of a large group of people. Some of them are quite mean and some ofthem just absolutely enjoy killing people and suppose I just amassed all of them and Istarted going into these legislative halls and taking over the state and then came on thetelevision and told you that I am in charge with everything and the state governments beendone away with and you will do what I tell you, do you really think you have to listen tome? I would bet you that if I were to doand I could do something like this because Imgutsy enough and powerful enough and I got enough influence to be powerful enough to doitif I did something like this I bet you 85% of the American people would fall in line anddo whatever I told them. If I told them that they had to stop going to church and weregoing to do away with all churches and in place of the churches were going to havepornographic movies and you got to go every Sunday and listen to a pornographic, youknow what, these silly people would go to the pornographic movie on Sunday, they wouldlisten, they would do what I told them. The point Im trying to make is that people are soeasily led. They will do whatever theyre told to do but, just think about it, would youreally listen to me if I told you that Ive taken over and Im the authority now and you gotto do what I say? If you wouldnt, if you say to yourself, No, I wouldnt listen to Howard,Howard doesnt have any authority, well, why in the hell do you listen to the State? Itdoesnt have any authority either. All it is, is a bunch of hoodlums like me that took overthe power and authority and told you, you got to do it.


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[Dave] Obama says hes going to terminate the Constitution.

[Howard] Actually, thats what ought to be done. Thats the only thing thats going toresolve this is to terminate the Constitution, terminate the entire governments existence

and the people dont have the guts to do it. And you know why they dont? Because theythink they need the benefits. They think, oh, we have to have education. Our kids have tohave an education. The government creates the education. It provides the schools. We gotto have that for our kids. It would be terrible if we didnt have education.

[caller] How would you have any rights without a ConstitutionI dont understand.

[Dave] Your rights came from God; they did not come from Obama and company.

[Howard] The Constitution did not give people any rights at all. It established therights of government. Thats all it established. It did not give you any rights. Any right that

you had comes from property. Your body is your property. There are certain rights in yourbody. If you acquire other types of property with the efforts of your body such as land orchattels like automobiles and guns and puppy dogs this is your property, it has rightsassociated with that property and they are your rights. You have property rights. You donot have Constitutional rights. Only the government has Constitutional rights. Thegovernment was created by the Constitution and the rights that are in it apply only to thegovernment that it created. Look upBarron v. the Mayor and City Council of Baltimore.Its a Supreme Court case back in 1833, I believe it was. His name was John Barron. JohnBarron owned a piece of waterfront property. The city of Baltimore did some excavatingwork moving dirt around and the rains came and washed the loose dirt that they haddisturbed down into the waterfront and it flooded into the area where his pier was and builtthe bottom of the river up so high that he couldnt get ships into his pier anymore. Theywere running aground so he sued the City of Baltimore and the mayor and city council whohad authorized this city work project to be done that caused the problem and it went all theway up to the US Supreme Court and the US Supreme Court ruled that the FifthAmendment to the Constitution to the taking of property applied only to the Constitutionthat created the government and to no one else. The Constitution did not apply to anybodyelse or anything else. It didnt apply to the states, it didnt apply to the people. It onlyapplied to the government that it created. Now, that was in 1833. In 1868 Congressmanaged to push this 14th Amendment through and the 14th Amendment applied the Bill ofRights of the federal Constitution to the states through the 14 th Amendment by adding theparagraph in the 14th Amendment that says that no state shall interfere with the life, libertyor property of the citizens.

[caller] So why is it that companies can discriminate and force you to have an ID?

[Howard] They cant but they do. They do because you let them.

[caller] Well, how do you stop them?


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[Howard] Dont do business and you campaign around your neighborhood to stopeverybody from doing business because this store wants a government ID and more andmore people will say, hey, I think hes rightI wont buy there anymore, and that storewill go out of business and theyll cry to the government. The government will say, ok,were sorry, we should have made everybody have a state ID, and eventually something

like that would go away. The people can control, they just dontthey wusses, theyrelittle wusses. They dont do anythingcry, thats all they do.

[caller] Howard, how about a referendum?

[Howard] Sure, thatll work. I want to create a coalition in every state to do areferendum vote to abolish the state government. If you abolish all fifty state governmentsthe United States government becomes nothing. The United States government wasauthorized to exist by the state governments. If you do away with the state governmentstheres no authorization for the United States to exist so they all go away. And I think thatwe could replace every one of the states with an independent nation and its own

independent nation government just like Europe. Europe is a group of independent nations.Why are we combined together as we are in a confederation under a parent corporation?We dont have to be. I dont think it was a bad idea. I think the purpose of the whole thingin the very beginning was excellent but the purpose has been set aside and its not beingfollowed.

[caller] everybody could have had equal rights and values

[Howard] We do have equal rights. What we have is unequal laziness. Im not quite aslazy as a lot of the other people so I work harder so Ive accomplished more. And underthis form of governmentthat was the concept of itto allow the people to be successful,to acquire property. The whole purpose of government according toFulton Light, Powerand Heat Company v. New Yorkwhich is a New York Court of Appeals casethats theirhighest level of courtand they defined what property meant and what they said was thatthe purpose of government was to guarantee the right of property to people, the right toacquire it, and to protect those property rights. Thats the whole purpose of government.Its certainly not doing it, is it?

[Ed] You got corruption, Howard.

[Howard] Yes. And its not the government thats wrong. Its the corruption withingovernment. Its the ignorance of the people and the greed of the people that are ingovernment. Leave the little guy alone and youll find out that 50% of them will be verysuccessful. Twenty-five percent will be moderately successful and the other Twenty-fivepercent are a bunch of lazy bastards and theyll never accomplish anything.

[caller] Always been like that.

[Howard] And it always will be like that.


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[caller] Right. The poor will always be with us. Well, you cant change that becauseof the laziness factor. Some people just dont have initiative. They wont get off their buttand go do anything. Theyre going to be poor all their live because theyre going to be lazy.

[Ed] Thats why the Bible says youll have the poor with you always, Howard.

[Howard] Thats right. And I feel sorry for somebody who becomes disabled and endsup poor because they cant do what they used to do. They got hurt seriously and theyreunable to perform. I think we should help somebody like that. I think privately we shouldhelp them. Not through some organization called social security with governmentcontrolling it and using up most of the funds for themselves and just a little bit for thatperson. I dont agree with that concept. Churches used to do this. The churches wouldaccumulate money from successful people that would donate and give it to people thatwere injured and hurt. But give it to the lazy bastard that doesnt want to do anything, no, Idont agree with that at all. Leave the lazy bastard alone. Let him suffer for his ownlaziness.

[caller] What about someone who wants to be able to do everything they want inlife but everything they do gets ripped and torn apart by people that are abusing thegovernment.

[Howard] Well, what about that? This is where I agree with the guy up in Wisconsinwho wants to start a business growing hemp and manufacturing rope from the hemp. Hangthese people that get in the way.

[caller] Yeah, I agree with you there.

[Ed] The system is set up to be fair. Its the corruption thats running itright,Howard?

[Howard] Exactly what it is, its the corruption. The greed of certain people to wanteverything that the rest of us have. They want to take it from us and use it for their benefit.

[Dave] It sounds like lawyers.

[Howard] It is lawyers. Government has a great purpose. If it would stay within itslimited purposes there wouldnt be these calls, there wouldnt be these groups of peoplegetting together called tax protestors and patriot organizations and tea parties thatdeveloped recently, there wouldnt be these groups. 02:52:23.328...{03:08:10.284}[Owen]Taking any questions on the financing statements?

[Howard] We started out with a few comments about it earlier, but, yeah, go ahead.


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[Owen]On the tender of payments discharge the extent, having right of recoursea fewweeks ago you said that theres some places we were sending our partial assignments to beprocessed. I have correspondence with some government officials who claim they dontunderstand

[Howard] Of course they dont understand. They went to the same school you went to.

[Owen]Is there that can help expedite this process so they can get their discharge?

[Howard] Yeah, theres a process. Its through the courts its called execution of adebt. They owe you just compensation. Thats what this assignment is all about. You senda bill to them for just compensation to be paid because theyve imposed an expense uponyou in your private capacity for the benefit of government. Thats the taking of privateproperty for public use without just compensation. Hospital bills and this drug business thatthe government runs is the imposition of a debt upon you and a cost in your life that isnt

necessary. Its for the benefit of government so they have to give you just compensation.Property tax on your land is for the benefit of government. Its the taking of your privateproperty without just compensation. They owe you the compensation. The assignment issending them the bill for the just compensation. When they dont pay it then you send thema notice that they didnt honor the debt and pay it. Then you send them a notice that theyrein default because they didnt honor the debt and in that notice of default you tell them thatits going to cost them three times the amount for their corruption of not paying the debtplus, if you want you can also impose a punitive damage on them in addition to the threetimes the amount thats allowed by law and tell them that theyre going to be charged forthis if they dont credit the account with the assignment and reimburse you your justcompensation that youre entitled to. If they still dont pay any attention to this one, thatsthe second notice, the third notice is a bill for the amount that you told them that theyregoing to have to pay because they didnt honor the assignment and provide the justcompensation. You send that bill three times in a row, three months, three times eachmonth, for three months. Thats what the law requires. After that the bill can be consideredto be refused to be paid, remaining unpaid and you can move for a judgment against themfor the collection of that debt for whatever that amount is. Now, lets just say were talkingabout a property tax bill for $1000 a year and you send them the assignment for $1000 andthey dont pay attention to it. So, you send them this notice that they failed to do whattheyre supposed to do and didnt credit the account and they ignore you and still dontcredit the account. So, you send them the second notice and you say, if you dont creditthe account with the $1000 just compensation as youre supposed to do then its going tocost you three times the amount or $3000 plus a punitive damage of $10,000. Now, you gota bill against them for $13,000. All this is over $1000. See how they do things? Weredoing it the same way they do. Its all phony but its all part of their lawits legaland itcan all be found in their law books. Now, what you do is you go to court and you file acomplaint for the collection of the debt of $13,000 plus interest from the time it wasoriginally due at an amount of 18%. So you figure that up mathematically, 18% per montheach month for all the months that they havent paid this and it amounts to another $2,480.So now you got $15,480 on your complaint and they have to answer the complaint. And


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they have to say why they didnt pay it, why they dont owe it and they cant say why theydont owe it because its all accumulated from the just compensation they were supposed topay in the first place and they cant prove that they didnt owe the just compensationbecause its part of their own laws. So you should get judgment against them for $15,480plus continuing interest until the day its paid. I dont think theyll bother you anymore

about the $1,000 property tax bill if you do this but if you dont do this and people dont dothis. This is why the American people are wusses. They wont get off their ass and doanything. They dont follow through with these kinds of things. They wont go read thelocal rules of court of how to file that complaint. They do nothing so its their own fault.

[Owen]They have a witness to corroborate my story in court, my witness, let us sayhypothetically, that would be whoever sends me the tax bill. And say, I send them thisnotice and he sent me a letter and he signed it that doesnt understand or recognize it then Iwas told by someone I can subpoena this man as my witness.

[Howard] Yes, you can.

[Owen]So I dont want to put the burden of proof on me in court since I dont know how tohandle myself thereI put it on him. Hes my witness. Now, I dont have to know what todo to him to make all this other stuff work.

[Howard] The burden of proof would be upon him to prove that he didnt have to paythe just compensation and thats the key to the whole thing, the just compensation. Theycannot take your private property for their public use and benefit without paying justcompensation. Did you pay me the compensation? Answer is no. Then you owe mejudgment in my favor, Judge.

[caller] And you said go to the place and look up the local rules of what?

[Howard] The local rules of court for filing a complaint for a collection of a debt.

[caller] What about if its not a debt though and its an action that needs?

[caller] Thats what an action is for to collect a debt, thats all the courts are therefor.

[caller] Really, its just only money thats it?

[Howard] Havent you figured that out yet? Everything is about money. You justexplained about what the doctors do. They get all the money up front and then they treatyou with drugs and drug you up so bad youre too stupid to come back and know thatyoure any better. You complain that youre sick of this.

[Dave] They just want to treat the symptoms. They do not want to cure you. If theycure you they would not make any money.


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[caller] Im talking about the doctors that are bad that they want to hurt you, theywant to make your symptoms terrible

[Howard] No, no, you got it wrong, son, they dont want to, theyre too stupid toknow that theyre doing it. I took a lady here in the neighborhood near me off of thirteen

drugs. I took he

2010Mar11 - Howard Griswold Conference Call

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