2010Feb11 - Howard Griswold Thurs Conference Call

7/31/2019 2010Feb11 - Howard Griswold Thurs Conference Call

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Howard Griswold Conference CallThursday, February 11, 2010Partial

Howard Griswold Conference calls:218-844-3388 pin 966771# (6 mutes & un-mutes),

Thursdays at 8 p.m., Eastern Time.6 Mutes and un-mutes

Conference Call is simulcast on:www.TheREALPublicRadio.Net

Starting in the first hour at 8 p.m.

Note: there is a hydrate water call Mondays, same time and number and pin #.Howards home number: 302-875-2653 (between 9:30, a.m, and 7:00, p.m.)

Mickeys debt collection call is 8:00 p.m., Eastern Time, Wednesday night. The number is 712 432 8773 and the pin number is 947975#.

All correspondence to:Gemini Investment Research Group, POB 398, Delmar, Del. 19940

(do not address mail to Howard Griswold since Howard has not taken up residence in thatmailbox and since hes on good terms with his wife he isnt likely to in the foreseeable

future.)

"All" Howard's and GEMINI RESEARCH's information through the years, hasbeen gathered, combined and collated into 3 "Home-Study Courses" and

"Information packages" listed atwww.peoples-rights.com "Mail Order" DONATIONSand/or Toll-Free 1-877-544-4718 (24 Hours F.A.Q. line)Dave DiReamer can be reached at:[email protected]

Peoples-rights has a new book available from The Informer:Just Who Really Owns the United States, the International Monetary Fund, FederalReserve, World Bank, Your House, Your Car, Everythingthe Myth and the Reality.

Hell take $45 for the book to help with ads, but $40 would be ok which includes shipping($35 barebones minimum)

www.peoples-rights.com c/o 1624 Savannah Road, Lewes, Delaware 19958

********************Note Mickey Paoletta has a new study course starting June 3rd, Wednesday at 8 pm.,

Eastern Time. The course will last for six Wednesdays. The first session was held on June3rd.Send the fee ($250 MO) to:Mickey Paoletta, 1771 South Meadow Drive, Mechanicsburg, Penn. 17055Fax the MO and letter to Dianne and shell give you the tel # and pin #.

Put study course in the subject line of the e-mailDiannes telephone number is 570-388-0938

Dianne fax number is 866-390-2344
http://www.peoples-rights.com/mailto:[email protected]:[email protected]://www.peoples-rights.com/http://www.peoples-rights.com/mailto:[email protected]://www.peoples-rights.com/


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Diannes e-mail is:[email protected]

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Often you can find a transcript or a partial one for the weeks call at the following website:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/peoplelookingforthetruth

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[Jim] Henry, Jim here.

[Henry] How you doing Jim?

[Jim] Ok. You sent an assignment into Washington, was it, a while back and youhad some success? Am I correct about that?

[Henry] No, I think it was somewhere around 95 or so I sent a security agreementto the IRS. They wanted me to go to their little kangaroo court down in Philadelphia and I
mailto:[email protected]:[email protected]://groups.yahoo.com/group/peoplelookingforthetruthmailto:[email protected]://groups.yahoo.com/group/peoplelookingforthetruth


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sent a security agreement financing statement, the assignment of account and commercialnotice.

[Jim] Very good. My question was, did you send that as an answer to apresentment they sent youin other words, you returned it to them?

[Henry] They were trying to get me for $82,000 and they wanted me to take allkinds of records, titles, you name it, they wanted everything that I had and I sent that and Isent the commercial notice.

[Jim] Oh, I see, so that was an answer to them rather than something that youinitiated yourself.

[Henry] Right, yeah, they kept sending me notices that you owe tax for such-and-such a year and I kept sending them back to them with the neutral response and after a twoor three months of that I guess they decided they were going to try to prosecute me. Well,

with the security agreement and the commercial notice and the affidavit after I sent it toPhiladelphia Federal Court three days later I got a notice of voluntary dismissal and one ofthe signatures on there was the assistant attorney general in the tax forum up there and hehad his signature on it.

[Jim] Oh, I see, very good....[Bob] Howard, I got a question for review. When you sign, can you go over theinstructions about how to sign mail in upper and lower case, also cover the subject of atarms length, when do you use that?

[Howard] the simplest thing to do is if you get a document in the mail that youresupposed to sign look at how the name is spelled. If its spelled in all capital letters, yousign it in all capital letters.

[Jim] You wouldnt sign you assignments in upper case, thoughright?

[Howard] The only part of the assignment you sign that as the secured party in regularscript As the secured party on a security agreement you sign as the secured party with aregular signature but the debtor always signs in all capital letters in print because thats theonly way you can make capital letters is in print. So you print the capital letters. So, therule of thumb is any time the document has the name on it in all capital letters then yousign it in all capital letters. Now, when I go to the post officeIve said this many timesand I dont know why it doesnt get through to peopleI dont like signing for certifiedmail. There is no need for you to send a package to Gemini Investments certified mail butevery once in a while somebody does it but I dont sign it. They give me this little pinkpiece of paper and it has two lines on it, print the name here and sign the name here, so Iprint the name on both lines. Im not going to responsible for certified maillet the debtor


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be responsible for it. Anytime with any kind of a government documentand most peopledo not realize that insurance of any kind is government. Its all an agency of the UnitedStates government. Banking is all an agency of the United States government. Medical isall an agency of the United States government. So, anytime you get involved in any one ofthe three things, if you insist on getting involved in them, I would stay the hell away from

their doctors and their hospitals at any cost. Id stay away from their banking at any cost.And I have very little use or respect for insurance because theyre a bunch of cheats,usually. You dont get back what you should be getting out of them unless you fight likehell with them. So Id stay away from those kinds of things but if you have to have it inorder to have the car on the road or something then sign it all capital letters because youredealing with government, youre dealing with fiction.

[Bob] Howard, if they ask, who signed for this, its in all capital letters, howwould you address that if you went to your post office and you had to sign for it.?

[Howard] Well, youre dealing with some idiot that has an education. They dont

know enough to understand anything so tell them you dont have enough educationallyou know how to do is print.

[caller] Thats my alter-ego.

[Howard] No, dont tell them that. Youll start getting into a conversation with someidiot that wont know what to do and he wont accept what you do. You just tell them,thats a much as I know how to doI didnt go that far in school.

[Bob] Very well put.

[Howard] One time we had a fit with some little stupid broad at a bank, the little teller,a nice girl, just a stupid little broad. She wouldnt accept the signature with the words,without prejudice under it. So, she said, I dont understand what that means. I said,well, my dear lady it just means we dont have any prejudice against your bank. Oh, ok,well take that. See how easy it is to deal with stupid peopledont try to teach themanything. Youre not going to teach these people anythingthey cant learn. Theyre littleprogrammed idiots from schoolthe only thing they understand is the program. If they hadno common sense and no intelligence to start with before they went to school they didntcome out of school with any common sense or intelligence. School does not teach eitherone of those things. It teaches a programthey teach people to follow the program.

[Henry] Just like a computer.

[Howard] Yep. I swear that people really do have a computer keyboard on their backand somebody programs them every day to do their functions. Youd be amazed at howmany idiots around here are out on the streets, today, after the governor declared astatewide emergency and restricted all travel on the roadways. 00:24:13.894

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[Howard] This is rather interesting. I just discovered it today. Ive looked at the oathbefore but I never really paid attention to it. To me it wasnt important because I dontwork for the government and I know that the government doesnt follow the oath and I alsohappened to, years ago, check into whether or not the oath was recorded in the records ofgovernment officials as it is supposed to be done according to the law and most of them are

not recorded. So, most of these people that are in office today have probably never eventaken the oath. Now, the president does but did you notice, I think it was Barack Obamathat screwed it up. He had to go back and take it over because he said it wrong.

[caller] That was because the Supreme Court justice gave it to him wrong.

[Howard] Yeah, the justice even said it wrong. Well, Ill tell you what, I checked intothe oaths that are on file in the office where theyre supposed to be and most of those oathswere not the original proper wording of what theyre supposed to be. Theyve all said itwrongjust nobody picked up on it. It happened that somebody picked up on it withBarack Obama. A lot of the other ones were the same way but nobody picked up on it.

Anyway, let me read this wording to you. This is from a book called The Constitution ofthe United States, its Sources and its Application by a Thomas James Norton. And right onthe cover page in the front of the book it says, the oathtaken by all officers elected orappointed to civil or armed services. Now, everybody in government whether its themilitary, any branch of the military, or any position at allI dont care if its the little girlwho sits at the front desk and just tell people where the office is located in the building orsomethingshes working for government. She might be just as sweet and nice a littlething but she probably never took the oath but shes supposed to because shes anappointed official of government. And you know what? I would have to be curious if I wastold to take this oath as to what these words mean and Id go looking things up. Id like tobet you that none of these people that ever took the oath ever looked up the words to seewhat they really meant. But heres the wording:

I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States

against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Im sure that most people wouldnt even know what it meant about domestic. Im sure theyunderstand but domestic they wouldnt understand. It goes on that:

I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same.

Now, whats that mean? Does that mean that I will adhere to every word of theConstitution because Im taking an oath to support and defend the Constitution?

Thats what it said. And if I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same then I betterunderstand what it means, shouldnt I? It goes on that:

I take this allegiance freely and without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion.


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Now, how many people would understand what that sentence means? How many peoplewould realize that if they didnt understand what the entire Constitution said and meant thatanything they did that would be outside of it would be an evasion of it? I would venture aguess that eighty percent of the activity of government today is an evasion of theConstitution and people are freely and willingly with no mental reservation at all acting

outside of their constitutional limits and probably dont even know that theyre doing it,dont even realize that theyre evading the Constitutional requirements. It goes on to say:

And that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about toenter, so help me, God.

How would you know what was faithfully executing the duty of the office unless you fullyunderstood what it was all about? Guarantee you that at least eighty percent if not probablyninety-nine percent of the people that are in government today have never read theConstitution much less read a book like this one by Thomas James Norton explaining itssources and its application yet this book is available. It was written

[Henry] Remember George was making a speech and he says, I dont care about theConstitutionthats just a piece of paperIll do what I want.

[Howard] Um huh.

[caller] Its nothing but a blank, blank piece of paper, thats what he said. Thatswhat he said in November.

[Howard] I dont know if I got a date here on this book. I dont see one. I dont knowhow old this is but I can tell you that the pages are brown in my copy. Its nothing newthis books been around for years. And it explains each line of the Constitution. Now, Illtell you where I got this book. A law professor at the University of Baltimore Law Schoolgave me this book about twenty-five years ago. He heard me talking about different thingsto do with what was going on with government and the Constitution and he said, thismight help you, and he handed to me and said, its yourskeep it. If I was going to takeone of these government jobs I would want to know what I was allieging myself to, what Iwas swearing by God that I was going to do and faithfully and well discharging the dutiesof the office that I had whether the office I had was a greeter at the front door or a secretaryor a clerk or an official of some kind. It wouldnt matter which one of those positions Itook. I would be curious enough to want to know what am I really supposed to do. I dontwant to be just told by some clown who thinks he knows what I should do and tells me howto do my job. Thats not enough because the job may be actually evading the actual lawand I can guarantee you that most of the jobs being done by government today are evadingthe actual law because Ive told you before of court cases like Boyd v. United States aboutprivate property, aboutFulton Light, Power and Heat Company v. New York. That is aprecedent setting case that established the definition of the word, property, and in thatdefinition established that definition to be that the purpose of government was to guaranteeand protect the right of property. You cant have property unless its guaranteed that I havethat right in the first place to acquire property and no sense in having that property if they


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dont guarantee the right of that property to continually be executed by me as privateproperty.

[caller] Howard, I have a question for you. Did you find anything in there having todo with someone qualified and competent to receive the oath and then transmit it?

[Howard] No.

[caller] Well, one of the things that we found here in Missouri was that someone ina position of responsibility who has the qualifications to receive the oath is an imperative.And if someone in the county fails to show uplets say a county commissionerfails toshow up within thirty days of his own free will and under his own power to give his oathto, lets say, the county clerk then hes automatically out of office at the end of thirty days.

[Howard] Yes, I have found that inwe looked it up.

[caller] Now, the other thing is the county clerk then if hes the one who receivesthe oath. And that is to elaborate just a little bit, they cant go to the city dump and havetheir buddy receive the oath and the other thing is whoever transmits the oath transmits it tothe Secretary of State and the Secretary of State has it on file because its a writtencontract

[Howard] In the city governments its the clerk of the court thats located in thatcity

[caller] I would say county clerk would probably be it or, yes, the city clerk. It hasto be someone in a administrative position such as that.

[Howard] In the state its the Secretary of States office that receives it

[caller] The Secretary of State is one who receives it for filing at state levelyes.

[Howard] Right. And then for the federal government its the federal Secretary ofState thats supposed to have it on file.

[caller] But I had a reason that I mentioned this to you. I would assumeI wantedto bring it up for a little discussion. What we found here in Missouri is that if someone triesto transmit their oath to the Secretary of State, guess what they do with it now, they send itback and tell him to hang it on his wallthey dont want it.

[Howard] Yeah. And I checked into this a little bit further to find out if there wasanything we could do about this.

[caller] Well, I believe its breach of contract.


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[Howard] Well, yeah, it is and we could sue them for breach of contract but thats acivil action and we can do that but if were going to be lazy and let government take care ofthings for us which is what we generally seem to be. There is somebody in governmentwho is supposed to make sure that these things are done and it turned out

[caller] Thats true.

[Howard] Its the attorney general. And I found state statutes that put the burden onthe attorney general to prosecute any government official who does not have an oathproperly filed and properly taken. Well, guess what I found out about the attorney generalhe never took the oath.

[caller] Thats right.

[Howard] So hes not going to prosecute anybody else for not having one.

[caller] The only oath that these guys have right now is the oath to the BARAssociation.

[Howard] Thats about the only one they have and Im not even sure they did that onecorrectly but I doubt if it matters even to the BAR Association that they did it correctly. Aslong as they follow the directions of the BAR Association

[caller] Howard, whats the recourse for suing the attorney general?

[Howard] Well, any one of them is liable under that document that we prepared yearsago called the acceptance of the constitutions, both state and federal, and the oath of officeof the above-named government official and we spread that thing around and a lot ofpeople have used it, thrown it in front of a judge and were had amazing results putting it infront of some judges. Some of them said, I could care less. And other ones have said,yes, I understand what youre saying, and, boy, did they rule properly. One little sillycase up in Southeastern Pennsylvania, the strangest place in the world because thats amoron area of people including the politicians up there and the judges but this fellowpresented it to the judge and he said, I understand. The judge said to the prosecutingattorney, do you have any witnesses against this young fellow? The prosecuting attorneysaid, were just going to put him on the stand, and the judge said, you cant make himtestify against himself. Do you have any witnesses against him other than using himself,and the prosecuting attorney responded, no, and the judge said, in that case this case isdismissed. He wasnt going to let them do what they normally do and use you to testifyagainst yourself.

[caller] What did he bring?

[Howard] The document that we prepared called Acceptance of the Constitutions andOath of Office of the Above Named Official.


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[Dave] Thats called a Notice of Acceptance.

[Howard] Yeah, but that document states within it that they are in breach of thecontract and can be sued under breach of the contract for any deviation from the intent ofthe Constitution and nobody follows through and sues them. So, as long as you people are

not going to do anything, again, I really dont care. Ill put the information out. Ill try toteach you what Ive learned whether its about the Bible, about the ancient history, aboutthe modern times and the modern language and how its been altered, what the law says,what the court cases say, Ill put it out there, Ill teach it to you, Ill keep on doing this, butif you dont do something to follow up on these things its your fault what continues tohappen. We need to go after every government official and I think its going to happenshortly. Were going to have an election coming up here in November and a lot of the scumthat have been in there are going to get thrown out.

[caller] How about police officers?

[Howard] What do you mean, how about police officers, they have a bigger duty to becorrect in their conduct than anybody else in government because theyre on the streetsdealing with the people directly. Yeah, Ive been after the cops for years. Ive been tellingthe cops, Id kill fifteen of you assholes if I thought it would teach the rest of yousomething. But you know what, youre all too God damned stupid to learn anything so Iwouldnt even bother to waste the bullets.

[caller] Well, they have to swear an oath, too, dont they?

[Howard] Yeah, they do. And if you check at the county or city or state levels,whatever type of police they are on their oath youll find out the wording in their oath isnot the one that theyre supposed to takeit leaves out part of the words.

[caller] All I got to do is go to the county and check on the records?

[Howard] Yeah, but dont bother, youre wasting your time. I dont care whether theygot an oath or not, if theyre in government theyre supposed to be doing what theConstitution restricts them from doing and allows them to dowording in the Constitution.When they violate your private property theyre in breach of the Constitutionsue themfor it. And its a simple case. As a matter of fact, we sent a form out for how to do a breachof contract case along with that document. As a matter of fact, all of this stuff is availablethrough Daves website, www.peoples-rights.com . Daves got that on there, its available.You can get all that information on the document that we prepared that accepts theconstitutions. And, by the way, that was very, very important. Im sure the Americanpeople have no knowledge whatsoever of this Constitution and how it got there. But it hadnothing to do with the American people. It never applied to the American people. We didnot ratify it and we did not accept it. It is not our Constitution as so many stupid people sayconstantly, our Constitution. Its not yours. Its the governments Constitution. It was setup by the state governments to establish a parent corporation called the United States of
http://www.peoples-rights.com/http://www.peoples-rights.com/


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America and it was ratified by state legislatures. It was never ratified and accepted by theAmerican people. It was never even given to the American people to be accepted.

[Dave] The court so in in re Merriam. The court said, people cannot use theConstitution because they are not a party to it.

[Howard] Thats right.

[Dave] Go to the website (www.peoples-rights.com) and you go to the mail orderpage and print out the mail order page and then check off or circle the particularinformation package which Howards talking about which is the Notice of Constitutionsand Oath of Office and the licensing offer to government to use your private property oncondition that government pay you for the use of your property and once youve servedthat licensing offer [by] certified mail as proof if they continue to use your property such assend you at tax bill you can send them a bill or statement of amount due for their unlawfuluse of their private property after having been served the licensing offer. By their use of it

they have accepted the contract and they owe you the money. All you do I send them a billand then send them a thirty day notice that they havent paid it. You send them a sixty daynotice that they havent paid it and then you send them a ninety day notice that the ten-dayright to cure has expired and they have failed to correct the cure and you can go to the courtclerk and get a default judgment based on that contract and those three notices to pay thebill based on the contract.

[Howard] The bill is for breach of the contract. In reality what weve done here iscircumvented the oath of office. It is fruitless to bring up the oath of office other than thefact that it ties this government moron to the Constitution. He is supposed to by law havethat oath so were going to presume that he does. I dont give a damn if he didnt do it theright way, if its not filed or if he never took the oath. We dont care. The law says hessupposed to have done that so were going to presume that he did take the oaththat it isfiled correctly, that it is done in the right language. Were going to presume that thats allright and then were going to sue him for breach of the contract because he didnt followwhat his oath to the Constitution said that he was going to do faithfully and truthfullyexecute his office. He used his office to steal our private propertythats a breach of thecontractisnt this simple? Ive talked about it many times before but I never really relatedit to the wording of the oath that says that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties ofthe office on which I am about to enter. I will faithfully and well execute and dischargethose duties. Boy, oh boy, you know what, if they came to me and offered me a job asbeing the primary advisor to the President of the United Statesthats a pretty high-ranking job, I dont want to be presidentbut if they came to me and offered the job ofbeing the advisor to the President and I had to take this office, Im afraid Id say, no,because Im not sure I know enough yet about this Constitution and what the limitationsare in it, what the rules and regulations of the Constitution establish for government to beable to do things. I got a general understanding of it but Im not sure I know enough aboutit. Id be afraid of making a mistake and doing something wrong and advising the Presidentthe wrong way. As much as I know about it Id still be afraid that I dont know enough. Ilike most of the rest of you people that are on this call, we have integrity, we have decency


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about ourselves. We wouldnt be on these calls, we wouldnt be doing what were doing ifwe didnt have integrity and decency about ourselves. I think every one of us, if we reallythought about what I just said would reject a government job realizing that we dont knowenough about what its supposed to be. The history has been lost. The knowledge of what itmeant has been lost. It has been perverted by the changes of the meaning of words. It is so

convoluted today Im not sure we could ever bring it back to right. Thats why I think thegovernment ought to be abolished.

[caller] Thats what theyre trying to dotheyre trying to abolish it now.

[Norman] Howard, the Constitution cannot touch we the peoplethe tenthamendment says that. All rights are reserved for the states and for the people.

[Howard] We discussed that a couple of weeks ago. The people have the last word.We have the right to nullify anything that they do that is not within their Constitutionalauthorities. We dont do it.

[Norman] The point I want to make here, the only way we end up in court is if weinjure somebody, physically violate their rights or propertyinjury, thats a legal terminjure somebody then they can turn around and sue us but if an officer stops us on thehighway for speeding there is no victim but they still give us a ticket. breach of contract.We talked about that before.

[Howard] In the days of old that was called highway robbery which means these copsare a bunch of thievesthey dont know it.

[Norman] A victimless crime and theyre ruining this country with a victimless crime.

[Dave] Today, its called piracy on the high roads for highway

[Norman] Ill agree with you.

[Howard] And its highway robbery in a lot of other ways too. The little moron thatcomes around and tells you, you got to paint your rain spouts because the paints chippingand if you dont youre going to be fined and then they apply the fine because theweathers been bad or your moneys tight and you dont have enough money to go buy thepaint or pay somebody else to do it because youre not even capable of climbing up aladder and doing it and theres a lot of people that are not capablethey need to paysomebody else to do something like that and they just dont have the money so they getfined. So, theres another thief thats stealing money from you because hes interferingwith your private property. You take these jobs in government and some idiot tells youwhat your job is and what to do and you follow the directions that they send you in andyoure violating the law with every damned thing you because they dont understand thelaw.


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[caller] Ive always been suspicious of people standing up and pledging allegianceto the flag instead of allegiance to the Constitution.

[Howard] Yeah. And, by the way, that shows you how stupid the American peopleare, they call it the American flag and yet they pledge their allegiance to the flag of the

United States. Is it the United States flag or the American flag? Which is it? Now, dontexpect me to give you an answer. I have my own opinion of it but Im not going to answerthat question because I dont think its the American flag at all. I think it is the UnitedStates flag. It was formulated, put together by some very lovely lady, Im sure she was, inthe midst of a battle where the United States was at war with England for the benefit of theUnited States, not for the benefit of the American people. It was the newly formedgovernment in this country that was fighting with the government of England. It was agovernment battleit had nothing to do with the American people.

[Henry] There are two flags. You got one which is the international flag with thegold fringes.

[Howard] Thats the military flag is you go look it up in Article 4 of the United StatesCode.

[Henry] I just said internationalmaritime

[Howard] Military flag.

[Norman] I understand that the flag in the courtroom with the fringe nullifies theConstitution in that courtroom

[caller] conquered nation.

[Norman] Yes, conquered nation.

[Howard] Thats exactly what it means.

[Norman] Every courtroom has it. So you look at the Constitution in the courtroom.

[Henry] All your schools, all your government buildings have that flag.

[Norman] Yes, they are, every one of them.

[Howard] By the way, in case you never noticed, so do the churchesanother reasonwhy I dont deal with religions or have anything to do with any religion of any kind.

[Norman] This is the New World Order people tightening more and more the noosearound our neck getting that four-colored flag all over the country.

[Dave] And its so simple to get out of it.


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[Howard] Well, it is simple and the simple thing is just the filing with the Secretary ofState who keeps track of corporation records that you are relinquishing your agencyresidency status with the corporation, state of, and the United States and thats all we haveto do. But its not that simple. When you get into a courtroom and you try to tell them that

they dont have any jurisdiction or authority over you because youre not one of theiragents or residents anymore, the judge will say something like, I dont know what youmean, what are you talking about, explain that. And when you cant explain it hell justproceed on as though you never did a thing.

[Dave] Thats why its much better to just return to sender any papers, envelopes ordocuments that they give you. If its not to your state spelled fully out in all lower casewith no numbers its not for you. They constantly trick people by sending stuff to fictions,to two-capital letter fictitious federal zones and numbered fictitious zones called zip codezones and fictitious state of blankwhatever, fill in the name of your stateand if youdont know the difference between actual and make believe youre in bad condition. Live

people do not live in a fiction state of anything and they dont live in a two-capital letterfictitious zone or numbered fictitious zone and if the people sending you these documentsand bills and papers cant spell the state out fully in all lower case with no numbers Irecommend you do not commit mail fraud and identity theft by keeping those documents.Send them back the way Howard teaches with the neutral response, number one.

[Howard] And dont let them get away with identity theft by them stealing youridentity under the pretense of these documents with capital letter spelled name and thesefictitious addresses. Send it back and use that neutral response letter and use it the way Ivetold you to use it and send it backnot certified mailjust send it back with their addressas a return address and their address on the front of the envelope and no comment otherthan what it says in the neutral response. I inadvertently received this document. I dontknow what its all about so Im returning it to you. Dont put any stupid comments inthere that its fraud or its deception or its not me or anything like that because, then,youre starting to make an appearance in their scheme of fiction by arguing with them, bycreating some kind of a conflict against what theyve said. Just send it back neutrally, Iinadvertently received this documentI dont know what it is all about so Im returning itto you. Youre not conflicting with them when you do that.

[Henry] If anyone wants a copy of it all they have to do is send me a self-addressedstamped envelope and I will send you a copy of it.

[caller] Whats your address?

[Henry] P.O. Box 273, Delmar, Delaware 19940, thats Henry Miles. (abbreviation= Del.)

[caller] Ok, thank you Henry.

[Henry] Youre welcome.


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[caller] And what should we request, Henry?

[Henry] you dont have to request anything. Just send me a self-addressed stampedenvelope and than Ill put the notice in and send it right back to you.

[Dave] The neutral response #1 is what hes going to send you and the reason youwant to have that is because you do not commit acceptance. Because its sent back they donot trick you into presumption of a contract. If you keep it there is a contract. If you send itback there is no acceptance and without acceptance there is no contract. If there is nocontract they cannot hold you to the contract penalty clauses called code, title numbers andcode section numbers. They cannot attach because there is no contract if you do not acceptthem. Thats why youve got to not accept them and send them back.

[Howard] Why is it important, Howard, not to use certified mail when you send itback?

[Howard] Why in the hell would you use anything that implicates your name? If its aneutral response you do not send it back with anything that puts your name on it. Certifiedmail requires that you put your name and address.

[Henry] By doing that youve accepted it.

[Howard] Yep. You stuck your foot in your own mouth.

[Dave] You can send it delivery confirmation and avoid that.

[Howard] I think you can but its not necessary to do anything but send it backbecause I was starting to say before he asked that question that weve used this for yearsand many, many times the people that were sending this stuff out to us, the Americanpeople, from government just stopped because they couldnt contact you. Every once in awhile, they get pushy and theyll send a sheriff around to deliver some papers directly toyour door. Well, thats when you have to know the rest of the follow-up on how to treatthese things and how to argue these things and how to argue these cases in courts and thatswhy we go on teaching things like the rules of evidence that we talk about and why andhow they cant come up with any evidence to prove their claim against you. And if youdont understand that, you probably wont beat them when you get to court if you have togo to court. But the way to avoid it from the beginning is to avoid it from the beginning.Dont stick your name in there anywhere. Unfortunately, this is what we were taught inschool. They taught us how to write our name. They never told us that we shouldnt use it.I guess we got the idea that our name is very important and we should use it all the time.So, we do and they get us because we step right in and we accept things that come in thatname. We dont know the difference between fiction and reality. Reality is a love letter Isend to my wife that I sign with my script signaturethats reality. Anything I send to thegovernment is a neutral response letter sending back anything they sent to me because whatthey sent me is not a love letterits got my name spelled in all capital letters.


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[Dave] And it never came to you in Delaware spelled fully out. It always came to aplace called DE with a bunch of zip zone numbers or the state of, Delaware Corporationand youre not in any of those three.

[Howard] This is why the mailing address that I use for you people to send the stuff tome is Gemini Investments. I dont use my name on the post office box. I dont live in thatpost office. A fictional name, Gemini Investments, lives in that post office. Well, a fictionwill live in a post office real easy. Im a real person. I dont fit in a post office box. Thepost office is one of the fictional functions of government. If youre going to deal with that,deal with fictional namesdont deal in your own name.

[Dave] The proof of what Howard says is that Internal Revenue Service sent someguy around to my house physically to present me with their invitations to give them moneyand I sent the papers back, delivery confirmation, with the neutral response and he gotupset and had the computer out in St. Louis, Missouri, I think it was, start sending me the

same stuff every two months and I sent it back in the same manner with the neutralresponse wording, delivery confirmation using their address both as the sender and thereceiver and I began to, instead of putting the regular postage I began to put a two-centstamp on the envelope so when they got the thing back they owed the postal service forty-two cents so it quit coming altogether. I get nothing now from Internal Revenue Service atall, not every two months, not anytime at allever. But I did not fall for the acceptancetrap because I sent everything back and I had proof, either delivery confirmation orcertified mail stub that it had been sent back and I did not fall for that acceptance trap sothere was no contract so they could not charge me with contract penalty clauses called codetitle numbers and section numbers so they leave me alone.

[Howard] Yeah, Dave listens pretty well to what we find in the law.

[Dave] Im a dumb blockhead Dutchman so it took me thirty-two years to learn.

[Howard] Yeah, it took us all a long time to learn. It was hard to get this through ourheads being we werent taught this way.

[Dave] But, Howard, I was so dumb I sat in jail for two years and I never knew Iwas not even the defendant.

[Howard] Nope.

[Dave] Their charges were against some all-capital letter name dummy corporationwith a similar name as mine but I was so dumb I didnt know the difference between actualand make believe. So, I sat in there because the papers they sent to the all-capital lettername dummy that lives in a fictitious place called capital D, capital E, and a fictitious placecalled 11958 and, dummy, I opened up the papers and reacted and went into court andargued with them and sat in jail for two years because I was so stupid I did not know I didnot live in the fiction state of Delaware and I did not live in capital D, capital E and I did


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not live in number 11958 and they never sent anything to me or anything with my name on.It was strictly Delaware spelled full out in all lower case with no numbers. They never sentanything to me. I kept committing mail fraud never knowing the damned difference. Thatshow stupid I was.

[caller] Weve all been brainwashed and programmed.

[Howard] Youve learned. The only problem you have is you still hate the post officewith such a passion that you insist on using it. Just put a stamp on it, put the damned thingin the mailbox. The postman will pick it up and deliver it. You dont need the certifiedmail. You dont need the deliver confirmation. You dont need to spend all that extramoneyjust mail it back to themit gets there.

[Dave] Howard, dont forget that guy that went on the stand and lied under oathand said they got an empty envelope back from the people, certified mail. that third-party affidavit of mailing

[Howard] That doesnt matter. I dont care what they say. Theres over a dozen courtcases that say that if something was put in the mail it can be presumed that it was deliveredand that they got it because the post office is ninety-five percent effective and I think thatsa damned good rating because thats about the only thing in government that has a ninety-five percent effective rating.

[Henry] Howard, I beat the post office on that case that I had down here on fivecharges. I go and asked the woman from DOT, I said, how did you sent the so-called letterto me. Oh, by regular mail. But, do you have any proof that I ever received it? I beather on that.

[Howard] You could because she probably doesnt have a lawyer thats smart enoughto Lawyers do not ever go and look up court cases. They hire people, they call themparalegals to do the work and theyre cheap, they often dont hire a paralegal to do thework so they just proceed on what little they know from court cases. But there are a dozencourt cases that say that if it was put in the mail it can be presumed that it was delivered sothat lady could have beaten you if she had a decent lawyer that taught her that. It could bepresumed that it was delivered but there was no evidence or presumption that I received it.It could have been stolen out of my box. The only true way the could say that I receivedanything would be certified where I have to go to the post office and sign for itthats theonly true record that they can presume that you received it.

[Howard] And if you people are smart you wont go to the post office and sign for it.

[Dave] Well, then youve got no proof that it was returned to sender.

[Howard] You dont need any proof that it was returned. Why in the hell are you sohard headed about that, Dave? It is to be done with a neutral response. Neutral means


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youre not involved. It just came back to them from wherever they sent it. They sent it tothe wrong placeit came back to them.

[Dave] You have no proof that you sent it.

[Howard] You dont need proofit came back to them because you never got it.

[Dave] Then theyllgot it and they will not admit that it came back to them.Youre not dealing with honorable peoplethey lie.

[Howard] Most of the times we have no follow-up from them when we do the neutralresponse.

[caller] I tend to side with Dave on this one based on my own personal experience.

[Howard] I disagree, you do not stick your stupid name on any of that stuff or indicate

in any way that you cared about this piece of paper.

[caller] No, you dont have to stick your name on it.

[Dave] Thats correct. Were all in agreement.

[Howard] Why would you care enough to send it back paying all that money unlessyou got it. Youre sticking your foot in your own mouth.

[Dave] Youre not saying its you that got it or you that sent it back. Its just beingreturned direct delivery confirmation. It has no name when its delivery confirmation orcertified.

[Howard] Every once in a while I go down to my post office box for Gemini and I pullout the mail and I always look through it because theyve done this quite a few times to meand I make sure its addressed to Gemini and every once in a while its addressed tosomebody else and sometimes it even has a different post office box number on it. Now,would I care enough to come home and put that in an envelope and send it certified mail ordelivery confirmation and pay $5.50 for delivery confirmation and priority mail? Whywould I care enough to send that back to the post office when it was sent to a Jane Doe in adifferent box number? I dont care, I just take it back in and hand it to the postman. Andthe character we have here in Delmar, hes quite a guy. I handed it to him and I said,somebody put the wrong mail in my box. Oh, he says, we got a bunch of people thatwe hire here that cant read. Thats a hell of a note, in order to work in the post officeyoud have to be able to read.

[Henry] The thing of it is with the neutral response, I have been using this ever sinceHoward first came out with it. I have had a lot of stuff come from the IRS and other people.I opened their envelope up to see whats in there. I put the neutral response, I put it in the


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envelope with their return address and their regular address and I ship it back, noconfirmation, no nothing, and it works.

[caller] If you want to do that and not have them know about it that you haveconfirmation, it costs $1.10 at the post officeits called proof of mailing.

[Howard] Ok, but why would I care to do that?

[caller] IN case they would haul you into court and say you never sent the stuff thenyou got proof

[Howard] Why would you want to come into court later and say that you had proofthat you sent it backnow youre admitting that you got it. How stupid can we be?

[caller] It wasnt mineI just sent it backit didnt belong to me. I have proof thatI did send it back.

[Dave] Youre missing the point

[Howard] I dont want proof that I sent it backdont you hear me?

[Dave] The point is the definition of acceptance says intent to retain. It does not saywhether you sent it back certified or not or delivery confirmation or not. It says intent toretain. Retain means keep in your position. If you can send it back neutral response thatsnot committing acceptance. Youre not retaining it.

[caller] Why would you want to do that?

[Dave] Because if you retain it theres a contract. If you send it back there is nocontract because you did not commit acceptance by retaining.

[Henry] Well, thats what Ive been doing for years, Dave

[Dave] Then were all in agreement, arent we?

[Henry] No, were not because youre twisting things around. I send it back withtheir return address and their address, no confirmation, no certification. It gets mailed and itgets back to them. Why would I want to take and have proof that I sent it because now Imaccepting it? Its the same damned thing.

[Howard] Youre proving that you had a part in doing it. I dont want to prove that Ihad a part in doing it. I dont know where that letter went. I dont know who sent it back.

[Dave] Well, the definition of acceptance has not changed. If you keep it thatsretaining, thats acceptance.


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[Howard] I agree. I agree 100% with that.

[Dave] Then you and I all agree.

[Howard] Well, thats why you sent it back with the neutral response and in no way

do you implicate the fact that you sent it back. I dont want any proof that I sent it back. Idont know where the hell that letter went. I dont know who sent it back.

[Dave] Thats why you never sign the neutral response.

[Howard] Yeah, the neutral response is not signed.

[caller] Can the neutral response be used with the census?

[Dave] Anything.

[Howard] You know what, I hadnt thought of that, but, yeah. But what Ive toldpeople in the census istheres a whole list of questions there. The first question is howmany people are in this house or whateverlist their namesand Ill agree with thatbecause thats what the census is for to find out how many people are in the area.

[Dave] For their voting.

[Howard] Yeah, for their voting purposes.

[Dave] If you dont vote and dont give a damn what they do about it, whycooperate?

[caller] Well, how many people are in the jurisdiction that the legislative officialsbecause they figure out how manywhat is itHouse of Representativesthey figure outhow many House of Representative members can come from a certain area based on thepopulation so thats what theyre looking for, the population. So thats all they want.

[Dave] And since none of your students are citizens in the corporation UnitedStates why do they care? It doesnt apply to them. It doesnt apply to people who live in thestate of, the fiction state of. It doesnt apply to the two capital letter designation that theysent the census form to and it doesnt apply to live natural people who live in the actualstate with no zip code numbers but all those census forms always come to zip codenumbered addresses with the two-capital letter abbreviations.

[Henry] I have never filed a census. Ive never filled one out and I never intend to.That only pertains to the corporation. They dont pertain to me.

[Howard] You could send it back with the neutral response or you could fill it inbecause they do determine how many House of Representatives delegates can be appointed


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to a certain area. That was the purpose of the thing. It had nothing to do with how manybathrooms you have in your house, now much income you have

[Dave] If youre not a tax payer you dont vote anyway.

[Howard] All the other questions that they ask on that census thing, there was apurpose for the census and it had a good purpose for government to determine how manyrepresentativesand, by the way, the House of Representatives supposedly represents thepeople. {Do they know that?} The Senate represents the government. The House ofRepresentatives is supposed to look out for the best interests of the people against what theSenate wants to do for the government. Thats what the House of Representatives issupposed to be for. Theyre not supposed to be proposing legislation for the Senate to passfor the benefit of government to make more money off of health care or off of globalwarming or any other foolishness. This is why I tell you that these people who took theoath have no idea what they really took and what theyre supposed to be doing but thatsbecause we have educated morons. Education has caused this problem. I think every school

ought to be burned to the ground and unfortunately we ought to lynch every teacher. Imsure the teachers would object to that {theyre teaching population control so heres theirchance to go first} but theyre teaching improperly, theyre causing the problem. I dontthink wed have to lynch too many of them before the rest of them would quit beingteachers. It would be a good idea to get rid of preaches and teachers because theyre allmisleading us.

[Dave] Theyd lose their NEA membership and their job.

[caller] House of Representative represents the people and the Senate represents thegovernmentright?

[Howard] Right, thats the way it was supposed to be. It isnt today, theyre bothrepresenting the government and theyre doing everything they can to extort from thepeople for the benefit of the government.

[Dave] At the orders of the BAR lawyer communists who are in charge of all them.

[Howard] The entire concept of this Constitution has been totally perverted for thebenefit and profit of those that get themselves involved in government {especially for theones with the deep pockets}.

[caller] Howard, you have stated earlier that there are twelve case citings or caselaw for the mail delivery issue. Do you have any or where may I find some?

[Howard] Google it. Go into findlaw.com and Google presumption of delivery of mailand see what you get. If you dont get it under presumption of delivery of mail just try mailpresumed delivered or something like that. Just change the words around until you finallycome up with the right words. Im not that much of a computer person. I dont get on there


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and do that but I know that those cases exist because I have found them sitting in the lawlibrary which is where I prefer to go to look things up, not the damned computer.

[Henry] Somewhere in my many, many boxes full of stuff Ive got all that stuff onthe mail that Dave had years ago. I dont know where its at. I got boxes all over the place.

[Howard] Yeah, I got piles and piles and piles all over the place.

[Joe] Howard, two things if I may but in here for a second, on the Constitution itsays the people get to be counted as part of the census. So you dont have to list your name.They just want to know the number of people.

[Howard] Thats all, you dont have to give the names, just the number. Two peoplelive in this house. Fill that in.

[Joe] On the mail situation, every time I get a utility bill and I send it out to pay it

I use their return address. I dont put my return address so it has their own return addressand their address on it and it always gets to them without a problem.

[Howard] Sure it does, especially when you do it that way, its always going to get tothem because even if it gets lost in the electronic and conveyer system that they have in thepost office. Every once in a while it chews up an envelope or spits one off to the side orsomething. It gets lost for a little while. Three months later somebody finds it and it getsprocessed and finally it gets delivered. But it will always get delivered back to the originaladdress if you put their address as the return address and their address on the middle whereyou normally put the address of where youre sending something to. It will always get backto them. Like Ive said, time and time again, I do not want proof that I returned it. I dontwant them to know I got it in the first place. Im not the one they sent it to. Why would Iwant to prove that I sent it back? Its a neutral responsedont you understand neutral.Somebody sent it back. I dont know who the hell sent it backI never got it.

[Joe] My point is though Ive been doing this for a long time and the stuff alwaysgets to them so theres no need to have a certified piece of mail like you were talking aboutto send it back.

[Howard] Thats right, and you dont want proof that you sent it back because youdont want to prove you ever got it and youre proving you got it if you prove you sent itback. Dont prove it. Thats not neutral. Damn, how complicated can this be to get throughpeoples heads? Anyway, lets get back to the crux of what I wanted to talk about. We keepgetting off on this silly tangent here of proving that we sent it back. We do this quite oftenand it irritates me every damned time we get into it. The thing is supposed to be neutral solets get off of the neutral thing. If you cant understand neutral send it back certified andtake the responsibility for having received it if youre that stupid. Thats why I told Henryto mail this stuff out because Dave keeps putting this stuff on about proving you sent itback and I dont agree with that. Everything else Dave doesI work with him and I thinkthe world of Dave. I appreciate all the things that Dave has done to help me get this


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information out. Thats about the only thing I argue with Dave aboutit shouldnt becertified.But, anyway, lets get back to what I was trying to get into and the fact that these peoplesuch as the House of Delegates have no idea what their job is. They dont even know thatthey represent the people. They dont understand the Constitution. Just reading the

Constitution is not enough either. You have to understand the history, the intent behind thehistory of the Constitution. These people that get elected, actually it seems to me that theyget elected because they have an ego problemthey want to be a big shot. Im theCongressman, Im the President, Im the delegate of the House of Representatives, Imimportant. No, actually youre not. Youre a servant of the people. In any one of thosepositions youre a servant of the people. Barack Obama did his state of the union address aweek or so ago and he made one very clear honest statement. The rest of his statements,Im not sure about the honesty in them but he made one very clear and honest statementand that was he has recognized that the American people are angry. Youre damned rightwere getting angry and more and more people are waking up and realizing that this thinghas gone too far but they have no idea why. This is what bothers me. This whole thing

could be resolved by the courts doing their job if we could find a lawyer, which you wont,that was honest and actually understood what the law was all about and brought casesproperly into the court. One of the Supreme Court judges back in the 1970s was ontelevision on some kind of an interview and he made a comment that a lot of bad decisionscome out of the Supreme Court of the United States because the lawyers are incompetent toword the complaints properly. Back in the seventies several different US Supreme Courtjudges were interviewed and their interviews were aired on television and a number ofstatements like that were made. The Supreme Court judges were trying to help theAmerican people and what they said went right over the heads of the American peoplebecause our heads are in the sand. Its easy to go over your head when your heads in thesand. Were too damned concerned about who won the Super Bowl or whos winning thebasketball games or whos winning the bowling tournaments or whether or not the beerscold. We dont pay attention to what we should be paying attention to. We dont stand upagainst what theyre doing. We dont stop what theyre doing thats wrong. We just followalong and cooperate with what they want. And thats why were in the position were in.Its been going on for a couple different generations. About five or more generations havebeen doing this. Its our great, great, great, great grandfather faults, our great, great, greatgrandfathers fault, our great grandfathers faults, our grandfathers faults, our fathersfaults and now its our fault because the fault has been passed down the line. Weve donenothing. It seems as people are beginning to wake up. Theres an awakening going on allacross this country and, as a matter of fact, theres an awakening going on all over theworld because in case you dont know the news because you dont get anything exceptwhat the American news tells you. The same kinds of things are going on in other countriesand every once in a while they drop a little comment of things like the people in China whowere standing up against the Chinese government, the people in Italy who stood up againstthe Italian government. This just happened about two or three years ago. The Italiangovernment almost got eradicated. The people got so angry over there that they broughtarms against the government. There was a little blurp in the US news reports from US newsbureaus, very little, a short comment, but if you didnt pick it up, if you werent listening atthe right time or you werent paying attention you didnt realize that there are groups in


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every country in this world that are recognizing that their governments are doing the wrongthingtheir governments are out of control. So the groups here in this country are notalone in doing what theyre doing. Its going on all around the world in almost everycountry. Every countrys government is out of control. Every countrys government is on apaper money system except Switzerland who is playing both sides of the game. They got a

paper money system and they got a solid money system. Theyre about the only one leftthats still doing it with solid money.

[Henry] The Turks inisland still have silver.

[Howard] Yeah, but theyre not using it. They have it but its not You know what,Los Vegas, Nevada still has silver. When you go out there to gamble you can actually getsilver dollars to gamble with right here in America. There is still silver.

[Henry] Theyre not pure silver.

[caller] Theyre Eisenhowers.

[Howard] No, they arent, either. No, they have silver dollars if you ask for them.

[Henry] Yeah, but theyre not silver, theyre the clad stuff.

[Howard] No, they have silver dollars if youre listening to what I said if you ask forthem. As a matter of fact, there was a big hullabaloo about 2004 or so, the State of Nevadawanted everything to go back to silver. They tried to force the United States government togo back to silver because they had silver. They had real silver dollars not these clad things.They had the clad ones too. Just like in Switzerland they have the clad money and papermoney and they have the real money. And theres some real money around in the worldcirculating.

[Henry] I got a whole drawer full of real money.

[Howard] Yeah, I wouldnt talk about it much if I were you. Somebody will try tosteal it.

[Henry] Theyll wind up dead.

[Howard] Well, that part Ill talk about. I dont mind talking one bit about killinganybody who tries to steal from government officials right on down the line to some streetthief. Thieves should be executed immediately. No jury trial, no foolishness, no lawyersjust execute them. 02:22:40.407

{02:37:58.199}[Howard] What is phenomenal is what we find by doing some deep research into theintent of the Constitution, the intent of the laws, the purpose for government and what thelaws really mean and what even the judges of the higher courts have said about the law that


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we dig up. Thats amazing, what were finding, not what weve done, were just people.Were not special, theres nothing important about us at all. Whats important is whatweve found that is what is supposed to be, what is right. What we found in tracing backinto the ancient scriptures and some of the ancient hieroglyphics and things like that ofwhat the purpose and intent of mankinds existence was that were uncovering and it had

nothing whatsoever to do with religions and religious beliefs that were trying to showpeople that there is a reason why to separate yourself from these religions and separatesyourself from these governments and just be yourself. Dont play with these fictions but ifyou want to set up a fiction thats how you do business in this world but you set it up undera fictitious name like Gemini Investments, like the United States of America, thats afictitious namelike General Motors Corporation. Can you imagine a woman having achild and naming the thing General Motors? No, thats not a real child, thats a fictitiousname. Can you imagine a mother having a child and naming it the United States ofAmericathats not a real child, thats a fictitious name? No, no such thing would everhappenthey are fictitious names. They are corporations. Thats what corporations are.They are set up under fictitious names to do business in the fictitious world.

[Dave] Like the State of California.

[Howard] Yeah, like the State of, the State of is a fiction. There is no such thing as thestate other than the fiction that exists and people cooperate with ityou dont have to.Now, if you want toIve said this many timesthere are good positions in government,there are good jobs there, good paying jobs. There are good benefits in government. If thisis what you wish to do I would never get in your way. I would never tell you not to. But Iwould suggest that you learn what its all about, what youre supposed to do when yourein that position.

[Dave] Anyway, to stay out of court, send all their garbage back to them. If youregoing into court despite what you try just tell them what Howard says, I do not consent tothese proceedings, I do not accept your offer. All rights reserved.

[Howard] I do not recognize you. Thats the most important thingrecognition.

[Dave] I do not intend and will never intend and have not intended to consent oraccept and I demand that the prosecution produce on the record in the evidence file theircommercial indemnity bond on the record in the evidence file. That forces it out ofadministrative and into judicial and they hate that. Theyd rather not let the case go forwardrather than reveal, there is no judicial and there is no evidence file for them to put anythinginto which is why they never do it. They want to keep you into administrative.

[Howard] And by the way weve been looking a little bit into this administrativeprocess and a couple of other people around the country have been looking into theadministrative process and theres some information available on the internet. Dave, whatsthe name of that fellow in Alaska that put some stuff out about administrative process?

[Dave] Ralph Winterowd.


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[Howard] YesRalph. Ralph did a lot of research into this area. A few other peoplehave toogoing off on the tangents of their beliefs so you got to be very careful aboutwhat you find about things like this. But Ralph brought up a very interesting point. And weuncovered this point and talked about it too and that isbut we never pushed it as much as

Ralph has been pushing it lately and I think it needs to be pushed a lot harder just like hesdoingand that is that if you will go check the administrative regulations and statutes thatare passed by the legislature of the state or Congress on these administrative agencies theygave them all this who struck John rules, regulations, direction and no authority. There isno enforcement authority in the legislative enactments for these administrative agencies.

[Dave] The entire Administrative Procedure Act.

[Howard] Right. They have no administrative enforcement authority to enforce theiradministrative regulations. Because they have no administrative enforcement authority theycannot enforce their regulations and if you will look it up. Now, this is an individual thing

with your individual problem that youre having because there are numerous, numerous,numerous problems that government causes by these administrative agencies. You couldhave a problem with local agencies with the health department, with the local agencies withthe police department, you could have a problem with the retirement programs or with themilitary guaranteeing certain requirements of benefits and stuff. You have to go look uptheir administrative rules and regulations and find out what is enforceable and what is notenforceable. And it has to be on an individual basis and the individual problem that yourehaving. This is not something that we can come up with a blanket statement and a blanketway to go about arguing your problem.

[Dave] Ralphs got a conference call if people want it.

[Howard] This depends upon you individually to go to the library. Ask the librarianfor a little bit of help. They will help you. Theyre usually very nice people usually. Ivemet a few librarians that are ding bats but most of them are very nice people. And they willhelp you to search something. They will look in their books to find out where it is on theshelf and tell you where to find it. You just have to do a little bit of reading when you get tothe right book and you will find out that the state police department is authorized toinvestigate robbery, rape, murder and assault and battery and that is the only authority thatthe state police department in any state in this country has. They have no authority to writetraffic tickets. There is no administrative enforcement authority for traffic tickets. Youllfind the same thing with the city cops and the town cops and the

[Dave] Ralph has a conference call if anybodys interested in hearing about theAdministrative Procedure Act non-enforceability. Anybody interested?

[caller] Yes.

[Dave] Its on Sunday night from six oclock to eight oclock, thats Delawaretime, six oclock in the evening till eight oclock in the evening Sunday night.


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[Howard] Eastern time.

[Dave] Ralph Winterowd and the number is for the radio station is 1-800-313-9443or you can dial a conference call number if you dont want to listen to the telephone. You

can dial a conference call number, 1-712-432-0075. I think this is the right pin number,118466.

[Howard] And the pound sign.

[Dave] If the prompt tells you to do thatyeah.

[Howard] That is good information because Ralph is a researcher. He actually digsinto the law. He does not sit around and use his religious beliefs to determine what hethinks things ought to be like so many of these other speakers and leaders do.

[caller] Are you saying that the state policesupposed to be investigating robbery,rape, murder and assault?

[Dave] Under the Administrative Procedure Actyes.

[Howard] Under the legislative enactment of their authority thats all that they haveauthority over.

[caller] Where can you find this information, in administrative?

[Howard] In the state codes, in the legislative enactments of the statutes of the state iswhere you can find this.

[Dave] Its called their job description.

[Howard] These different little agencies like environmental protective authorities andchild protective authorities and all these different little dingbat ABC agencies, if you golook them up in the states legislative enactments creating those agencies it tells you whattheir authority is and what their enforcement ability is and in most cases they do not haveenforcement authority. The IRS Code, Title 26 of the United States Code has noenforcement authority for the IRS to enforce tax collectionnone whatsoever.

[caller] But these guys are trained to shoot and kill and maim when they come toyou and get youthe IRS.

[Howard] Yeah.

[caller] And its a private company.


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[Howard] The judges and the lawyers are trained to coerce you into cooperating withit.

[caller] The IRS was just issued state-of-the-art new shotguns.

[Howard] So are most of the police.

[caller] Yeah, but these are fairly sophisticated up-to-date, the most nicest piece youcould own. In fact, a lot of the other agencies or officers dont have it yet.

[Dave] Of course, youve got the finest Congress that money can buy so naturallywho do you think owns Congress and passes all this stuff? The money power.

[Howard] And you got the finest judges that money can buy. Now, if they dont haveenforcement authority do you realize that that falls back under their constitutionallimitations?

[caller] Well, Ill beon the 10th Amendmentpolice powersok.

[Howard] Yep. They dont have authority because the legislature didnt have thepower under the Constitution to give them authority to do these things.

[Dave] And private corporations, which they are, have absolutely no authority overprivate people.

[caller] I got a question to ask you. A friend of mine, hes been living in George fortwenty-two yearshe left Michiganand when he came here he was driving with hisGeorgia license and they said that his Michigan license was suspended and they took hisGeorgia license away from him. It took a while to find they couldnt do that.

[Dave] Is he charging money?

[caller] They charged money They tried to charge him money but

[Dave] No, Im talking about him. Does he charge money to people to take themplaces or does he charge money to haul other peoples property from place to place?

[caller] No, he doesnt.

[Dave] Then hes not driving. Driving means charging people to motor or move ortransport people for hire or third-party goods for hire. If hes not charging money hes notfor hire and hes not driving and his private property automobile is not a vehicle because ifhes not using it for the production of income its not a vehicle. If its not a vehiclecharging money its not a vehicle motoring passengers for hire or third-party goods forhire, its not a vehicle motoring, its not a motor vehicle, its not subject to their code. Youneed to learn the definition of these words.


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[Howard] Theres quite a number of court cases that you can look up that explainexactly what Dave just said. They tie it down to commerce only that this authority ofhaving a license is all about and if youre not in commerce which means, as Dave justexplained, charging money to transport goods for somebody else or to transport passengers,

thats what commerce is all about, if youre not in that and youre in your privateautomobile then these idiots are breaching their oath to uphold the Constitution and theybecome liable to you for that breach of the contract. This is what that document we startedout, tonight, talking about is all about. Give them the document, put their name at the top.Well, theres two places to fill in a blank on there because we left the state open so thatanybody can fill in the state that they live near. If youre in Wyoming just fill in Wyoming.If youre in Delaware you fill in Delaware. And at the top of the page you fill in the nameof this idiot thats bothering you and you hand him this document. The rest of thedocument is all prepared for you. Theres no other fill in the blanks to be done. The USConstitution is spelled out as the US Constitution. The only one that is not filled out is thestate because it might be different. There are fifty different states so it might be a different

name of a state that you put in there and the idiots name and you let him know that hesbeing held to the oath that hes supposed to have taken. Thats why I explained earlier thatthis concept was based on the presumption that they did what theyre supposed to do. Dontquestion whether they did it or not. We dont care whether they did it. We will presumethat they did what they were supposed to do and hold them liable for it.

[Dave] Theyre stealing your natural right of free passage by presumption.

[Howard] Whenever they do something to you in your private capacity or your privateproperty they have breached their constitutional oath and theyre liable for breach of thecontract because their constitutional oath is a contract.

[caller] when they did stop him and they took his Georgia license his licenseexpired on that same date so they took his license.

[Dave] Who cares if its expired? If hes not charging money he didnt need it tohave whether its expired or not. In the home study case theres a case called Turner v.Michigan, in that case the judge, Hilda Gage, came out and said, if its suspended orexpired then hes not a licensee. The definition of a licensee is someone who holds acurrent valid license. If its expired its not valid so hes not subject, so what does he care?

[caller] But theyre saying now that the license expired then automatically yourlicense is suspendedthats a law they got now.

[Dave] Well, get it in writing. Thats your proof that youre not a licensee.According to Turner v. Michigan you dont need a license if youre not charging moneyanyway so who cares? You got your piece of paper there that says its suspended theycannot hold you to the Code requirements for licensees who are not suspended because youare suspended therefore youre not subject to their motor vehicle requirements, Turner v.Michigan. Thats one of the references in the home study course, how to enjoy your natural


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right of free passage instead of a privilege of driving in commerce by license with thecorporate state.

[Howard] All this kind of information that were talking about is available throughwww.peoples-rights.com. Now, if your brother or whoever this is isnt willing to study

then he ought to go get a license and pay the fees and pay the tickets and cooperate with thesystem. If hes willing to study and hes ready to go to court and argue these things becausehes studied then he can argue about the license. If hes not ready he shouldnt do it.

[caller] Absolutely, I agree with you; thats what I told him.

[Howard] And that goes for everybody, if youre not willing to look into this stuff,study it, go beyond what weve done and part of what we got came from people who wentbeyond what we had at that time and thats why we got so much information in there. Otherpeople have helped us to learn and find this. Dave didnt do this by himself. I didnt do thisby myself. We got help from other people and some of it turned out to be bad help and

some of it were recanting.

[Dave] Tell them about the tomato down in Kentucky that deliberately ran the redlight to see what would happen.

[Howard] No, that was in Virginia, not Kentucky. Yeah, he deliberately ran the redlight to see what would happen and once he told the cop what he knew to tell him the copjust got in his car and said, have a good day, and drove off. And thats in Virginia.Virginia is among the top communist states in this country.

[caller] You got that right. Ive been through that state.

[Howard] Georgia is among the top communist states in this country. New York andCalifornia is among the top communist states. All the rest of them are communist too butsome of them are more forceful of enforcing their communism than other ones are.

[Dave] Because all these state corporations are being instructed by communistmembers who hold a BAR communist ID number.

[caller] I agree with you on that....[03:00:40}[Howard] The more we get knowledge and information like this out to the people themore the people are waking up. Now, you got to realize as I have over the years of doingthis work that when they first hear it its not going to be acceptable. Theyll just say, thatcant be, just like when I tell you that religions are behind getting us involved withgovernments by requiring us to record birth certificates in order to be a party to theirreligion and get their religious functions, whatever the hell they call them, like baptism and
http://www.peoples-rights.com/http://www.peoples-rights.com/http://www.peoples-rights.com/


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bar mitzvah and things like that. Religion got us involved in these damned contracts withthe government of registering birth certificates. Religion has promoted the idea of signingup for social security when, in fact, if you go look at the social security law it only appliesto government officialsit does not apply to people privately. We were not supposed tohave social security numbers and cooperate with this system.

[Dave] Furthermore the Bible says to not have a common purse in common withothers and yet thats exactly what social security is.

[Howard] Yes, indeed it is.

[Dave] So much for your church.

[Howard] Yeah, so much for churches. They have led us into this stuff. Its hard forpeople to accept that but you think hard about it, you put a little effort into the thought andpay attention to what youre learning youll realize that your churches have led you into a

lot of this stuff. They are part of the system. Theyre not part of God. Theyre pretending tobe part of God and actually executing what the system wants.

[Dave] Theyre a corporation. Theyre a 501(c)(3) corporation.

[Howard] Yeah, well, theres a whole bunch of them that have pulled away and theyarent 501(c)(3) corporations anymore but theyre doing the same thing that those 501(c)(3)corporations are doing, so theyre no better.

[Dave] So theyre corporations with different numbers.

[Joe] Howard, before you go, can I just read something? You were talking aboutthe education system earlier. I looked at a little book on the US Constitution andFascinating Facts about it, twenty most popular Supreme Court cases. In 1973 there was acourt case, San Antonio Independent School District v. Rodriquez. The Constitution doesnot guarantee a fundamental right to education and its the gist of the case. In 1968 a groupof low income parents sued San Antonia claiming its citys wealthy precincts had betterschools. The court upheld the districting plan saying that the Constitution did not guaranteean education and upholding its tenet. The Constitution does not compel government toprovide services like education or welfare to the people, rather it places boundaries on thegovernment actions. Thats it.

[Howard] Ok, and that goes right along with something I brought up a week or twoago that all this control of education, control of medicine and health and all this kind ofstuff was all proposed under the 1866 Civil Rights Act which was vetoed by the thenPresident (Andrew) Johnson who followed President Lincoln.

[Joe] Ok, but on that case that I just read, now, think about this, theyre sayingthey dont compel them to give you an education but yet the parents dont put their childrenin the public fool system they come after them.


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[Howard] Yep.

[Joe] Now, isnt that kind of like an oxymoronwhats rightwhats wrong?

[Howard] It certainly is and it makes me, again, bring up the story that Ive told manytimes of taking my daughter out of school in the sixth grade because we went to a parentteacher meeting and sat in the school and watched what they were teaching and when weleft there I said to my wife, theyre screwing up the minds of these kids so bad theyllnever understand English or mathematics or anything else. Were not sending our daughterback to this school. She said, what are we going to do? And I said, were going to get intouch with one of these home school things and sign her up and home school her. So, mywife agreed and we did that and about a year and a half later there was a knock at the door.Some little moron from the school system wanted to know where my daughter was. I said,shes right there sitting on the sofa. Well, why isnt she in school? I said, she is inschool. What do you mean? I said, were home schooling her so she is in school. And

their comment was, are you qualified teachers, you or your wife, are you a qualifiedteacher? And I said, absolutely not. I looked up the word, qualified and it means limitedand neither my wife nor I are limited idiots and we dont want some limited idiot called aqualified teacher teaching our child. They went away and never bothered me again.

[Joe] Now public schools here in Pennsylvania theyre letting parents homeschool their children with their books and things like that and its called K-12 something orwhatever.

[Dave] That means kindergarten through 12. Those Pennsylvania regulations onlyapply to subjects called citizens and residents and voters of the fiction state ofPennsylvania. So, if your name is in all capital letters and you have a government propertyID number called a social security number and you live in a fictitious place called capital P,capital A with zip zone numbers and you open the mail when its sent to those zip zonenumbers, yes, those codes will apply to you because you dont know any better. If youknow youre not living in a fiction called State of Pennsylvania or capital P, capital A andyoure not living in a fictitious federal zone called 12345 or some other bunch of numbersnone of their crap applies to you. That crap only applies to their fiction creations, not livenatural private people. You got to decide, are you a natural live real people or a corporatefiction person subject dummy.

[Joe] But most people dont know that.

[Howard] You are right.

[Dave] Thats why we try to teach people better.

[Howard] Thats why were here to try to teach people. Now, theres a way aroundthis stuff. I dont care if the doctor said you got to take a certain medicine. I dont care ifthe State said you got to use a certain book to teach your children. You can cooperate and


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not cooperate. You take the doctors prescription and dont get it filled or if they force you,you go get it filled and take it home and throw it in the trash. You dont have to take it.You dont have to use their books if they insist you get their books. So get their books andtake them home and throw them in the trash and find good books to teach the children with.Make it look like youre cooperating so you dont get in a lot of trouble but dont

necessarily cooperate. Their books are, as I heard somebody on one of the radio talk showssay today that their books are all oriented toward what we call liberalism. Theyre writtenby liberals. The entire education system is liberal. There is very little real education. Theywere talking about this on the talk shows today. As a matter of fact, my wife is sitting hereand she says, theyre finally saying the same thing that you said twenty-five years ago.And I said, yep, it took them that long to catch up with what I saw twenty-five years ago.People are waking up. Theyre beginning to realize that these things are wrong, that its tooliberal, that its communistic in nature, but you dont have to cooperate. Sometimes,though, its best that you make it look like you cooperate. Get the book, go along withthem. Throw th

2010Feb11 - Howard Griswold Thurs Conference Call

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