2010May13 - Howard Griswold Conference Call

7/31/2019 2010May13 - Howard Griswold Conference Call

1/27

Howard Griswold Conference CallThursday, May 13, 2010Partial

Howard Griswold Conference calls:218-844-3388 pin 966771# (6 mutes & un-mutes),

Thursdays at 8 p.m., Eastern Time.6 Mutes and un-mutes

Conference Call is simulcast on:www.TheREALPublicRadio.NetStarting in the first hour at 8 p.m.

Note: there is a hydrate water call Mondays, same time and number and pin #.Howards home number: 302-875-2653 (between 9:30, a.m, and 7:00, p.m.)

Mickeys debt collection call is 8:00 p.m., Eastern Time, Wednesday night. The number is 7124328773 and the pin number is 947975#.

All correspondence to:Gemini Investment Research Group, POB 398, Delmar, Del. 19940

(do not address mail to Howard Griswold since Howard has not taken up residence inthat mailbox and since hes on good terms with his wife he isnt likely to in the

foreseeable future.)

"All" Howard's and GEMINI RESEARCH's information through the years, hasbeen gathered, combined and collated into 3 "Home-Study Courses" and

"Information packages" listed atwww.peoples-rights.com "Mail Order" DONATIONSand/or Toll-Free 1-877-544-4718 (24 Hours F.A.Q. line)Dave DiReamer can be reached at:[email protected]

Peoples-rights has a new book available from The Informer:Just Who Really Owns the United States, the International Monetary Fund, Federal

Reserve, World Bank, Your House, Your Car, Everythingthe Myth and the Reality.Hell take $45 for the book to help with ads, but $40 would be ok which includes

shipping($35 barebones minimum)

www.peoples-rights.comc/o 1624 Savannah Road, Lewes, Delaware 19958

********************

Often you can find a transcript or a partial one for the weeks call at the followingwebsite:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/peoplelookingforthetruth

*******************************************************************When you arent talking please mute your phone!!
http://www.peoples-rights.com/http://www.peoples-rights.com/mailto:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]://www.peoples-rights.com/http://www.peoples-rights.com/http://groups.yahoo.com/group/peoplelookingforthetruthhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/peoplelookingforthetruthhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/peoplelookingforthetruthhttp://www.peoples-rights.com/mailto:[email protected]://www.peoples-rights.com/


2/27

It would be best if you mute your phone when you first come on, then un-mute it whenyou want to talk and then re-mute it.

You can use the *6 button on your phone or use the phones mute buttonSpeaker phones and cell phones are not desirable as they can chop up the call badly

occasionally.

If you are recording the call and leave the phone unintended, please mute!!!!!Note, on October 30th someone left the phone un-muted and coupled television audio intothe phone making the conference call conversations very difficult.

When you are not muted be careful of making noise such as breathing hard into thephones microphone or rubbing the mouthpiece or not reducing extraneous noise across

the room. Cell phones can pick up wind noise when used outside and also if not in aprimary reception zone can couple noise into the call.

Excessive echoes and noise will terminate the conference call.Cell phones and speaker phones can cause echoes.

Keep the call quiet, dont make Howard climb out of his mailbox and bop you one.

*******************************************************************Note: the telephone lines are usually quite noisy and therefore it would be prudent toslow your speech down otherwise your words and meaning will be lost.

Suggestion to everyone (even Howard):Get a phone with a privacy or mute button. This is much more convenient than star-6 andmore rapid to use. It can also be used as a cough button since it can be used rapidly. Try

it, youll like it.*********************************************************************

A recording of each Howard Griswold Thursdayconference call is available from Dezert Owl upon requestfor any sized donation. Go to the following link:www.TheRealPublicRadio.Net/Archives.html.

For donations to desert, send them to Free America Radio Network, 121 Seaparc Circle,Suite B, Kingsland, Georgia 31548. Phone number: 912-882-2142. Cell: 304-629-7169.

************

[Greg] Howard, this is the guy. It was seven dogs they stole from me. Two weeksago we had a suppression hearing where I didnt have all my dots in order and things andthe judge ruled thatit was a suppression hearing and I wanted all the evidencesuppressed and he came up with this that under the Fourth Amendment I didnt protestwhen I was there. The sheriff was there and the Humane Society and I wouldnt open thegate but I didnt say anything. Jim was telling me that you have to say something in theFourth Amendment
http://www.therealpublicradio.net/Archives.htmlhttp://www.therealpublicradio.net/Archives.htmlhttp://www.therealpublicradio.net/Archives.html


3/27

[Howard] I dont agree with that approach that government has put to that butabsolutely that is correct. Ive got a big dossier here written by Michigan School of Lawrelated to the Fourth and Fifth Amendment and if you dont bring it up from thebeginning then they can do anything they want.

[Greg] Well, thats what the judge said because I didnt make any custodianstatement that they were allowed to use the evidence against me. I had dumped mylawyer. The other week it was a motion. When I first met you people and told you it wasa motion hearing that he wanted withdrawn I told him to get going. I gave him a lettersaying, go. So, I represented myself and then when I talked to you people I didnt haveall my Ps and Qs right but I did go in there. I made a lot of objections because they hadme on, I confined the dogs, I dont feed them, I beat them and everything. So, I broughtup a lot of objections and the judge, Stevens out of Geneva, Ohio, amended everythingright there in the court. They only have to prove one, I dont feed them, I dont waterthem and I dont vet them. So I had a bunch of my own because these are my watchdogsI sent in the evidence to the prosecutor and then she sent me back evidence that

she was going to commit how bad the dogs were and this and that. So, I couldnt get ahold of anybody when I listen to you last week. I was going to break in but I didnt knowif I was right or wrong but most of the talk was about health last week so I didnt want tosound like a clown so Ijust

[Howard] Well, like I said, we try to avoid that but every once in a while it does that.

[Greg] Well, I didnt want to sound like a clown because another person was onthe line and he was being a clown to I just held back. But anyway, what happened, FridayI went to another lawyer that helped me fourteen years ago and he said for X number ofdollars he will negotiate on my behalf. So what we got on mine is they got what they calla pretrial diversion where I have to certain things that they want. Im only getting onedog back. They took seven. They killed one. And the dog Im hoping to get back was thequeen mother of the whole thing. She came running out to defend me. I was ready to popthe cop but shes half wolf and she knew what I was thinking. She knows what Imthinking before I do and she interfered and they grabbed her and like I said, I just stoodthere. They gave me a complaint instead of a search warrant and when I brought it upthey said, well, you didnt make these statements, the custodian statements and theypulled that in the State ofI dont know what statefor sure, 1997. If theyre on yourproperty you must make this statement so these were not searches. They were probablecauses and they can intervene because maybe a crime was being committed.

[Howard] Yeahmaybe.

[Greg] So, thats what they pulled on me. So I was stuck come last Wednesday soI didnt know what to do and when I listened last Thursday I should have butted in andasked what to dobut, like I said, Im sixty-five and I just started this stuff a while back.Jim Leach told me about it and Im trying to get good but even when I was in court theyhad the woman that made all these charges. I should have protested under 601 and 602and 901 but I still didnt realize, being ignorant and dumb, what they were saying and


4/27

how to combat them and then Jim explained it to me and, well, its too late. So, the endruling is they got me on a pretrial diversion. You dont plea, theres no sentencing onlyyou got a two-year bullshit with these ass holes. And the dogs they did takelike I said,they killed one. They said, oh no, it died. No, they killed him because a five-week oldpup as soon as they touch it, it had a seizure and it scared the hell out of him. And theyre

going to give me back my main dog, Brownie, but when? Now, its been since Mondaywe had this pretrial diversion and then they said they can come and I got about eight dogsafter I can only have seven nowI can only have two. So in the long run basically Ilost and for two years I got to have supervision so Im planning on, the four or five dogs Ihave left, to take them elsewhere. When they come out there, there will be no dogs. LikeI said, Ive been fighting them for eight or nine months and one lawyer he led me tobelieve that the plaintiffwas gone. And I talked to other people and they said, lo andbehold, she gone. Well, she went from the Humane Society to the APL. Do you see whatI mean? They were all misdirecting because they figured I knew something washappening because my friend, Jim Leach, was schooling me and then I started talking toyou people a little late and then when I got to court by myself she was there and I didnt

know. I asked her a few things like the other people, asked her who owns the dogs, whofed them, who? She said, you, you, you, but I didnt finish. When they would have saidthat you didnt feed them, water them, or vet them I would have said, well, who underthe 602? Hey, Im a junkman, Im not a law man and I just started this so basically I lostbut Ive got time now to get rid of the dogs I got and he said I could have seven out therebut when they come I got little surprises for them.

[Howard] Well, you didnt completely lose.

[Greg] No, no. Jim said another person in PA has to spend two years for less thanwhat I did.

[Howard] Yeah, theyve dropped any further pursuit of this so you actually won.theyre going to do is keep an eye on how you take care of the dogs.

[Greg] Well, twice a monththey could come at random and inspect me and Imust let them in and within fourteen days I must surrender the other two or three dogs Ihave but already two or three of them are gone elsewhere and when they come Im justgoing to look at them and then I have to have the dogs neutered and spayed and withinninety days I must pay all court costs. The court cost is only a hundred sixty at the timeand then they were telling me, they were going to have 38 jurors come and I have to payall them. I said, thirty-eight? I dont know what they pay jurors in Ohio, I dont knowwhat they pay them in Ashtabula and Im waiting for that bill but my buddy said I shouldask themJim asked me I should ask these people for the receipts that they pay thesepeople because they might run the bill up to whatever they want.

[Howard] Yep.


5/27

[Greg] So, I should have butted in last week but I was listening. You gave a lot ofgood information on the principal and agent. I listened to all that and wrote all that stuffdown so Im learningits never too old to learn.

[Howard] Do you have a law dictionary.

[Greg] No, but I got the Code of Evidence, federal and Ohio. And what should Iget now?

[Howard] A law dictionary, a fourth, fifth or sixth edition, Blacks Law Dictionary.Dont get the seventh or eighth or they got a new one. I heard somebody said they have aninth edition out now. I wouldnt waste my time on the sixth or the seventh, eighth orninth editiontheyre trash.

[Greg] Fourth or Fifth you sayright?

[Howard] Fourth, fifth or sixth edition. Actually, the best one to understand themodern law and the way theyre using terms is the sixth edition. Thats not the bestdictionary there is but its the best one to suit the way theyre doing things today so thatyoud understand it.

[Greg] You people helped me out. When I was in the court all by myself and Ibrought up a few things and they looked at me like, does this ass hole know anything?Because even though I put doubts in their minds and then I had her when Isomebodybutted in and they should ask them whose dogs they are, who feeds them, who watersthem, I should have kept going on and say, did you havepersonal knowledge, thatswhat it is, 602. Do you have personal knowledge that I didnt feed them? I could havestopped her right there but my mind wasnt thinking. I figure if theyre there they havepersonal knowledge but basically what Jim explained to me is they didnt have personalknowledge of what theyre charging me for.

[Howard] Thats right.

[Greg] See, I didnt know the technicality and the terminology. Like I say, Ill getthis other law dictionary, number six, Blacks, and Ill study more and more becausetheyre going to come again because where Im taking other dogs andtheyre going tocome again. And the statementI asked Jim and you just told me. I got to repeat it, theFourth Amendment or Fifth when they come with or without a search warrant. I have tohave a custodian statement that the Fourth

[Howard] The Fourththe search and seizure in under the Fourth.

[Greg] Do I have to recite the whole Fourth, Constitution or just..as Jim toldme


6/27

[Howard] No, just state the Fourth Amendment and ask them if they got a searchwarrant. Just say, fourth Amendmentunder the Fourth Amendment do you have asearch warrant? Under the Fifth Amendment are you taking my private property withoutjust compensation. Thats the only two things that really you would need to remember.

[Greg] What if they say yes?

[Howard] Fine, Im going to bill you.

[Greg] Ok. Jim was schooling me and everything and then I forgot about the 602,the personal knowledge. And when she was up there I figured She didnt havepersonal knowledge of me not feeding them, of not vetting them, of not watering them.Id have had her right there on the stand but she made one, its a personal little commentthat my dogs

[Dave] Did Jim tell you about the six disclaimers that Howard teaches people to

say?The first one is: all rights reserved. If you dont reserve your rights you dont reserve theright to do the second and the third one.

The second one is:I do not consent to these proceedings.

Write this down.

The first is all rights reserved.

The second is:I do not consent to these proceedings.

The third is:I do not accept your offer.

The fourth is:I do not now, I have not in the past and I will never in the future intend toaccept or consent.

The fifth one is:I do not recognize you.

And the last one, number six, is:I demand that the prosecutions commercial indemnitybond be produced on the record in the evidence file. And shut up, dont say anything elseexcept those six things.

[Greg] Now, where can I get all these things, in what book?

[Dave] You write them down. They have to produce them. You write them downand demand that they produce them. You dont get them, you make them do it.

[Greg] Ok, thats what I mean. In what book?


7/27

[Howard] He just got in touch with us, Dave. Hes only been in touch with us fortwo weeks or so. He didnt know about us before.

[Greg] Jim was telling me about federal laws, 501, 502. In this book I got theyhave it but they only have one paragraph on the 500,but they dont go into detail and Jim

was telling me about these rules that I can counteract them. See, like now, youre tellingme about these six things I tell these people, where do I find them?

[caller] You send away and you get the package from Dave DeReamer about howits processed.

[Howard] Are you on the computer?

[Greg] No.

[Howard] I dont mean now. I mean do you have a computer?

[caller] Do you have access?

[Greg] No. I can get ityes.

[Howard] Ok, look upwww.peoples-rights.com.

[Greg] Ok, thats what I want to know.

[Howard] Theres tons of information there.

[Greg] I still want to see how I can read it, write it down and how Im comingafter them when theyre coming after me. The gentleman that told me about B-1, a monthago with all this rain and everything, my shoulder was killing me. I tried the B-1. Theysay take one tablet a day, Im taking two. It works, gentlemen, it works very well. Ivetaken forty pills in three weeks and I feel great.

[Dave] Call in on Monday night with that stuff.

[Greg] Well, ok, but I just wanted to let you know the B-1 does work.

[Howard] Ok. Every once in a while we get off the health thing on this call. Werenot supposed to but it comes up.

[Greg] Peoples-rights.com, Ill get that on my friends computer and find all thesethings.

[Howard] Theres a ton of information available there. Pick what you need, whatsrelevant to what youre doing or what youre involved in.
http://www.peoples-rights.com/http://www.peoples-rights.com/http://www.peoples-rights.com/http://www.peoples-rights.com/


8/27

[Greg] Were in court and I just start spewing out some of the things and Im justlike I say a junk man and worried about making money and making a living and feedingmy animals. Been doing it for forty-one years and all of a sudden I was saying this, thisand that and right away the judge shut me up and he said, well, all these other chargesabout confining, about beatingtheres about twenty of themhe said, theyre all

thrown out. The Humane Society only has to prove three things. I dont feed them, Idont vet them and water them and if I had been sharp enough I could have used that Rule602 and I could have brought it right up there and it says, did she have personalknowledge, but I wasnt sharp enough.

[Howard] Youre right, you could have done that and the reason you could have isbecause she couldnt say that she was there at feeding time every day of the weekfindout if you fed them. So, no, she doesnt have personal knowledge. Did you ever takethem to a vet? Has she been at the vets office when you came in? No, she hasnt been atthe vets office. Well, then, she doesnt have personal knowledge.

[Greg] I didnt understand it until I had basically lost and I called Jim Thursday orFriday and finally I caught him Sunday and he explained to me where I was just a littlebit wrong but like he says there is no judgment against me, theres no plea, its called apretrial conversion they got me on and I just have to do something with four or five dogs.

[Howard] They converted it to a non-court exercise. In other words, what theyvereally done is theyve sent it back to the administrative agency which is the dog pound tojust keep an eye on you under a court order to make sure that youre feeding the dogs. If Iwere youI dont know how big your junk yard isbut you probably dont need thatmany dogs. So, like you just said, and I agree with it, cut it down to fewer dogs beingaround there but dont get rid of them all. You need some protection around the junk yardor people would be in there stealing your stuff.

[Greg] Well, in 08 they killed six and stole $1,500 worth of copper motorsbecause I pick them and send them to China and pick them and I had two big piles doneand my last pile I came out there and theres four dead dogs here and one in the house.They cut the cables and cut the locks. I only need four or five out there.

[Howard] We have a family of six in serious condition in the hospital because of thesame kind of a thing happening here. A brand new homethey just move in. Well, Iguess its been a month ago but they were only there for about two weeks and the houseblew upa horrendous explosion. The house is sitting on the ground off the foundation.Parts of the walls are missing. The children went flying out through a window in theirbedroom. The parents were slammed up against the wall. How any of them survived theexplosion is beyond me and for some reason the explosion just went out immediately. Itdidnt set a fire, thank heavens, because it knocked everybody unconscious. Anambulance took them to the hospital. The police investigated and the latest report we getin the newspapernow, remember, this is what lawyers and cops tell newspaper people.Newspaper people cannot go check on everything item for item and make sure that whattheyre printing is 100% correct. But according to the police somebody stole the copper


9/27

line that went from the gas bottle, the big gas tank, into the house. Gas was leaking upunderneath of the house into the foundation from the open line and it exploded. Can youimagine somebody doing something like that? In a cruel worldnobut were not livingin a normal world. Today, you better have sixteen friends with machine guns around youall the time and all of them looking out for one another.

[Greg] In Cleveland, Ohio, here, Tuesday the eleventh, the day I was supposed tohave trial by jury a home blew up that the county was rehabilitating. Somebody put thegas on. It blew up and shattered and two other houses around it and within a half miletwenty-seven homes were damaged and thats because of natural gas but they dontknow, theyre still investigating.

[Howard] Well, this case, when they did investigate they found out that the copperline going from the tank under the house to the furnace had been removed.

[Greg] Well, I want to thank you because I went in there and with what little

knowledge I had I just kept spewing whatever I could remember and I had notes andpapers and papers and, like I said, then when were supposed to go trial by jury I wentand got another lawyer and we talked a little bit. He said, ok, come on in, and henegotiated before the trial and we got this pretrial conversion, they call it. So, in one wayI won but I lost my six other pups and I got the queen mother. Shes supposed to becoming back to the den, shes the head. And like I said, if it wasnt for her I was ready topop the cop and I guess she knew what I was thinking. Shes half wolf and half pit bull.

[Howard] Sounds like a good combination for protection.

[Greg] Oh, shes a wonderful dog. The only thing is when the so-called HumaneSociety agent got up there this dog never had a scratch on her, Howard, never a scratch.Shes four and a half years. She slept with me. She took care of all her other kids. Shehad three litters. She was such a super dog and like I said, she knew what I was thinkingbefore I thought it. And the cop was standing there and he took some barricades acrossand one Humane Society asshole jumped in and then the other one jumped in and therewas just meand I can pop this mother and the dog came running out. She saved me.And from what this Humane Society bitch said that she was the worst. When they got herto the Humane Society thirty miles away, never had a scratch on her, she was a bloodymess. She had a tooth knocked out. punk ass agent, they must have beat them with abaseball bat or smacked them around or beat her and all of a sudden, now, shes such abloodyhow can she get bloody when she never had a scratch on her for four and a halfyears? So, I believe theyve been holding this case up for four, eight months because theydidnt know what to do. And I threw other stuff at them and what you people told me Idid it so I want to thank you. It did help me and Im going to study and study becausetheyre coming again. I got fourteen cats in Cleveland. I had twenty animals out in thecountry, no bother to anybody, never hurting anybody, but I hear this legal jumbo mumbothat theyre coming up withunbelievable. The judge out in Ashtabula, he just saideverybody should arm themselves because they laid off twenty-seven sheriffs so youreon your own and Im a mile from nobody. Ive been doing this for twenty-five years and


10/27

the dogs have been my watch dogs. But thank you, anyway. Like I said, I won and I losteither way you look at it.

[caller] Howard, if you serve that Notice of Acceptance of the Constitution thentheir oath of office on each one of those people and the judge and file their oath of office

can he still get his dogs back?

[Howard] He probably could pursue them a little bit further with things like that. Hecan find that onwww.peoples-rights.com.

[Greg] Well, when they were coming on me on August 22ndof last year, 09, Iasked because my buddy, Jim Leach told me, ask each and every one if they got an oathof office. They all said, yeah, I said, wheres it at? They said its on file. One lawyer,he wanted three or four thousand to represent me. I went to another one. Finally, I got oneand I ask him, can you get all their oaths of office? He said, thats lateranother time.So, I gave him a lot of legal mumbo jumbo and then he seemed to hold me. They had to

have me take a competency test if I was nuts or not because they took my property andthey took my animals. And they had for eight month, I guessand when she got on thestand and said how the one dog was a bloody mess, I said, bitch, some day youre goingto get it, not from me, somebody else because revenge is not ours but shes going to getit. Somehow this kids name, his name was egghead or something, he might have beat thedog as they took it the thirty miles to have evidence because they had no evidence that Iwas starving They just put up a bikeway trailway across from me about fifty yards. Itwas an old railroad track going from Warren, Ohio to Lake Erie and then all the railroadcompanies donated their property to each county, Ashtabula, Trumbull, and then they puta bikeway, trailwaymaybe two people a week uses the bikeway, walkway. Ive beenout there for forty-one years and Ive told a few clowns that came outyour dogs, yourdogs, I said, theyre sitting here, they aint bothering you. Other people told me this isthe whole thing, they dont want to even look at the dogs, theyre scared. Like I toldthem, go put one of these bikeways up where you live, not where I live. So, thats thestory.

[Henry] And if you want to get copies of Blacks Law Dictionary, Barnes andNoble, thats where I got my stuff from. {00:49:19.757}...{01:20:43.868}[Howard] Alright, lets talk about this 14th Amendment a little bit. I found someinteresting stuff. In a court case calledHooven & Allison Company v. Evatt, a USSupreme Court case. It can be found in the US Report Books at Book 324, US Rpts, pg.652. Its a 1945 case. It was an interesting discussion in this particular case aboutproperty of the United States and also explaining some of the things Ive tried to teachpeople about the United States. There arent two different United States as there arentthree different United States as Ive heard people say. Theres only one United States andin this case they said the term, United States, may be used in any one of several different
http://www.peoples-rights.com/http://www.peoples-rights.com/http://www.peoples-rights.com/http://www.peoples-rights.com/


11/27

senses. In other words, applying to different things but its still the same United States.It

may be used as the sovereign nation that it is or it may be as the collective name of the

states which are united under the Constitution or it may designate the territory over

which the sovereignty of the United States extends and includes citizens of the United

States as created by the 14th

Amendment. Now, theres some double talk. If this judge

would have gone back and read the Dred Scott case he would have realized that the term,citizen of the United States, was a different term than the 14 th Amendment citizen whichis termed a US citizen. But, anyway, isnt it interesting that were included as territoriesand possessions of the United States? That was created by the 14 th Amendment anddomiciled in the District of Columbia. The only way that you can be domiciled in theDistrict of Columbia is through these registrations that go into government such as birthcertificates and social security applications and that all falls under the 14th Amendmentand thats how we became property of the United States. Listen to what it goes on to sayabout it. It says the federal territory and possessions and federal enclaves, areas within theunion states or one living in one of the states of the Union or a foreign country. The USConstitution in Article 4, Section 3, Clause 2 states as follows: Congress shall have the

power to dispose of and make all needful laws and regulations respecting the territoriesor other property belonging to the United States. Within these areas or in the

jurisdictions over the 14th

Amendment United States citizens are not subject to the same

constitutional limitations which restrict its power, Congress power, in the areas of landover which the fifty states exercise their respective sovereign authorities. The United

States may acquire territories by conquest or by treaty and may govern it through the

exercise of the power of Congress conferred by this section, Article Four. In exercising

this power over the territories and the citizens Congress is not restricted by the other

constitutional limitations that would apply to non-Fourteenth Amendment citizens.

Doesnt that help to lay out just about exactly what Ive been talking about for the lastyear or two? Thats right out of this court case,Hooven & Allison Company v. Evatt.Under the 14th Amendment they acquired the property of the individuals body byconquest. It was a real simple conquest. They didnt stick a gun in your back and makeyou do it, they just tempted you. And as somebody said earlierI believe it was Greg upin Ohiowas saying, this is our own fault. We let this happen. Ive said that manytimes, we caused a lot of this stuff to happen. That 14th Amendment was an offer which issomething that Dave brought up a few minutes ago. Its one of the six statements thatweve taught people to realize that you dont have to accept and consent to what theywant you to do. Its an offer and an offer requires acceptance. If you dont accept theoffer dies, it becomes moot. Weve accepted in many different ways for century and ahalf weve accepted these things so really its our fault for accepting it. The only way wecan change this is to learn enough about how to terminate that agency relationship thatscreated by the 14th Amendment citizen status and terminate all property registrations.They really dont have any authority over property that isnt registered like Gregs puppydogs. If they didnt have dog licenses the dog pound wouldnt have any authority overthem. They presume this authority and they get you to consent and go along with theirauthority and argue with them. Theres no need to continue the argumentjust tell themto leave.Hooven & Allison v. Evatsort of lays out that 14th Amendment and its purposeof acquiring the control over the American people as US citizens. And interestinglyenough I got a bunch of paperwork here written by a whole lot of different people, mostly


12/27

lawyer stuff, about citizenship and theyll start out talking about a citizen of the UnitedStates and before the sentence is finished they refer to them as US citizens. It shows theconversion that went on in our property rights status as private citizens. Citizens of theUnited States were considered to be the citizenry, the private population, outside of thecontrol and regulation of government until the 14th Amendment gave government the

option to allow you to become a US citizen whether you actually work for thegovernment or not. But the fact is, if you go back and research this far enough, theres acouple of court cases that discuss it. I dont remember the names of them right now. Butthey discuss the fact that the word, person, in the 14th Amendment applied only tocorporationsit didnt apply to people.Now, heres the trickery behind this kind of stuff.If people allow themselves to fall under the legislation that was created in

accordance with the 14th

Amendment then the people allowed themselves to appear

to be a corporation. Now, this is why we appear to be in the form of either a corporationor an agent of their corporation like a subsidiary corporation. Im sure, Im just as sure asGod made little green apples that this is not going to stop until its burned. There is goingto be a violent end because these people are profiting tremendously off of this scam and

the ignorance of the American society and theyre not going to give it up. Theyre goingto go down fighting. I can see this becoming very violent, very forceful on the part ofgovernment to maintain what theyve had going for years as people begin to pull away.And the people, indeed, are pulling away in all kinds of different ways but very little hasbeen done officially, even the fact that theyre pulling away and not participating verymuch with government any more like Dave just said, something about not being a voter.He doesnt vote for them. He doesnt elect them. He doesnt care whos in there. Ivebeen teaching that for years. If you dont work for them you dont have a right to vote. Ifyou dont work for them you dont have a right to vote. You shouldnt be voting. Byhaving a voter registration youre acknowledging that youre part of them. I think voterregistration should be done away with by every individual who doesnt want toparticipate with them and you shouldnt bother to vote. Voting isnt making anydifference, didnt you notice that? It doesnt matter who you vote for. How many timeshave you heard me say, it doesnt matter if you elect a Democratic communist or aRepublican communist you still have a communist in office.

[caller] Howard, youre absolutely right about that. I got a question, though, aboutwhat was it like before, lets say, the Civil War when you voted or were people onlyelectors back then?

[Dave] They fought a war about that. It was about if theres no taxation withoutrepresentation. So, if you really crave and yearn to be taxpayer, you dumb bastard, godown and register to vote. Then youve got representation and then you can pay taxes.

[Howard] Right

[caller] Well, I understand that today. Im asking what it used to be again.


13/27

[Howard] What is used to be was the people didnt bother. They didnt vote. Theonly people that bothered were the ones that were involving themselves in government insome way or business with a license from government.

[caller] Ok, thats what Im trying to understand. So, even the people who

registered to vote back then became, if you will, part of government. They were no longera free citizen. They were a franchised citizenIll use that term.

[Howard] Exactly the term that they used too. In some of the research we did onvoting thats what they call it. Its a franchised right so youre being franchised by thegovernment to be a party to government.

[Dave] Thats what the Supreme Court said inInternational Shoe Corporation v.State of Washington which you can look up in your Blacks Law Dictionary, fifth edition,under the phrase minimum contact or minimal contact. Itll direct you to the site for theInternational Shoe Corporation v. State of Washington in which the United States

Supreme Court said the way they get their jurisdiction is by presumption. Well, theregoes your due process out the windowits no longer a neutral court if its apresumption. But, anyway, they admitted they get their jurisdiction by presumption.Their presumption is that you, me, Howard, everybody is enjoying purposeful availmentof some privilege, benefit like voting, title of nobility, or license or opportunity offeredfrom government. They presume so until you deny that youre enjoying some benefit,privilege, license, title of nobility or opportunity offered from government and makethem prove otherwise theyre presumption stands because you failed to rebut it.

[caller] Right, ok, thank you for that. I guess I got one other question, if you dontmind, and that is occurred and Im wondering this because it would show evidence topeople as I try to convince them of how deep the rabbit hole is and how screwed we are.But Ive heard that within the documentation like the Constitution when they refer to acitizen before the Civil War it was always capitalized. And after the Civil War it wasalways in lower case to denote the fact that they were no longer a free man on the land, ifyou will, but a franchised citizen. Have you heard that and is that accurate?

[Howard] I dont know how accurate it is because it wasnt constant.

[caller] It wasnt consistent.

[Howard] No, it wasnt consistent. Because it wasnt consistent I cant put anycredence to it that its valid. But there is a difference in some of the writing like in theConstitution where it uses the word, citizen, it does it one place with a capital C and inanother place with a small c.

[Dave] The definition of citizen still means a member of whatever.

[Howard] Well, actually, in order to be a part of a country you got to be a citizen ofthat country. Here in America the concept of that citizenry was established in the


14/27

Constitution and explained by Madison in Paper No. 39 as the national citizenry. Thatwas the private sector and the citizens of government was spelled differently normallybut not And that was the democracy. The federation of states were included as part ofthe federal government because theyre all agencies of the federal government. Theseparation of power then was the separation of church and state. Now, boy, Im telling

you that is so misunderstood. People actually think that some stupid building with araving maniac screaming give me money and Ill talk to God about your sins is achurch. Thats not what the meaning of the word, church, was. Our founding fathersknew what it meantwe dont. Weve lost track of the meanings. The word, church,meant your physical body. Each and every individuals physical body is the church, thetemple of Godyes, right out of the Bible. The temple of God, the church is your body.Separation of church and state separated the government which was the State from theindividuals. It had nothing to do with religious bull shit. Now, I agree 100% with theConstitution establishing a right for any idiot to determine any religion to be whatdirection he wanted to follow because we need something. People need something tohang onto. Religions a good thing to hang onto. Theres so much good in the teaching of

religion, especially righteousness and decency of how to go through life that is taught inreligions. That part of religion is great. And we should hang on to some type of religiousbackground and we should have an absolute right to choose which one we want. If youwant to be some particular type of religion and most of the people are some other type,you got a right to be that some other smaller type. Do it any way you want. I agree withthat as one of the concepts of our Constitution because people just need something likethat. They need something to hold onto and they need something for guidance. Thereligions have gone so far away from what their real purpose and intent was that theyveactually become very political and theyre doing what the political wants done. Theyreteaching as little as possible so that we will remain ignorant. Theyre participating withthe political in establishing documentation that brings the people out of their privatecapacity and into a governmental state capacity. Its religions that are leading people toregister birth certificates because you cant get bar mitzvahed if you dont have a birthcertificate. You cant get baptized if you dont have a birth certificate. You cant receivethe sacraments or whatever this other silliness of religion is unless you got a birthcertificate. You cant get married unless you got a birth certificate because you got tohave a birth certificate to go get a marriage license and the churches, none of them, in anyone of the religions will marry people unless they produce a marriage license from theState. They are pushing people into these political contracts. That is not the originalpurpose of religion.

[caller] that which is Caesars.

[Howard] Ive never disagreed with that. Lets assume that Im Caesar. Dont takewhat I got and Ill let you live. You try to take what I got and Ill bury your bodysomewhere where itll never be found. Im Caesar. So are you, in case you didnt realizeit. You just wont go so far as to bury their body somewhere.

[caller] When traveling and the highway revenuers and you have given notice tothe state andgovernment and they want you to have or drivers license


15/27

[Howard] That is a subject for another night. That is part of the subjects of theircontrol through the 14th Amendment. That 14th Amendment was never intendedas amatter of fact, Southern Pacific Railroad Company v. California, very old case back intothe 1870s. I looked that case up, find the write-ups about. Its so old that its on black

print with white letters. You know how long ago photocopiers did that? Thats how oldthe paperwork on that case is. A lot of those old cases were that way. And in that case thelawyer representing California government was one of the Congressmen that had beeninvolved in drafting the 14th Amendment and he explained that the purpose of the 14thAmendment was not to help the Negro slavethese were his words, of course. And fromthose days that was the terminology that was used to describe those people. And he said,the real purpose of this was to enslave the white race, and it worked. Theyve offered allthese goodies and the stupid white people fell for all the goodies. And what reallyaggravates me is only one-third of the dark skinned people that were in this country atthat time in history were actually slaves. The other ones were all free people just like therest of the white ones. A lot of them were business peoplethey were in commerce.

Some of them owned farms, some of them owned businesses. Theres one very famousone, George Washington Carver, the guy who invented all the different ways to usepeanuts. He was a peanut farmer, a well-educated businessman, well educated to the wayeducation was in those days which was superior to what we have today. He probably hadwhat we would consider to be a third grade education which meant that he was probablysmarter than a PhD out of college today would be. But a lot of them were business peopleand the damned shame is that those business people that were dark skinned fell for thesame rhetoric that they use to get the slaves involved in the 14th Amendment and then therest of the white population fell for the same rhetoric and got involved too and weve allcontracted to be party to government and now we all fit under the US citizen and residentof the state in which we reside. Like Ive said before, its our own fault. We didnt botherto look. Our parents, our grandparents, our great grandparents didnt bother to look; theydidnt bother to learn or find anything out. They just went along to get along, thats whywe are where we are today and I dont think that this is going to be easy to stop. I thinkthis is going to end up in violence simply because even non-violent people just want towithdraw and stop participating with them the government is going to become violentand try to force you back into participation. But as Dave just said, you have to tell themin some way or another that youre not accepting any benefits, privileges or opportunitiesof government as whatInternational Shoe Corporation v. State of Washington case said.They presume that we are all receiving benefits, privileges and opportunities fromgovernment. As a matter of fact there are two very important income tax cases whichreally clarify how the income tax is imposed upon the people. A US Supreme Court casecalled Grimes v. New Yorkand a Maryland Court of Appeals case called Fax v. State. Inboth of those casesone of them cited the other oneI forget which one cited which. Ithink cited the Grimes case. In those cases what they said was that the income tax is notimposed on the money that you earn. It is imposed upon the benefits, privileges andopportunities of residency in the government. Well, then income tax couldnt apply toyou if you werent accepting benefits, privileges or opportunities from withingovernment, could it? Like Dave said, you have to rebut their presumption in somemanner. The best way to do that, I think, is by an affidavitit seems very simple,


16/27

doesnt itstating that youre not accepting the benefits, privileges, and opportunities.But the other thing is we have to follow through and terminate these registrations of allproperty, the birth certificate, the social security, the auto registration, the land deedregistration, every bit of it has got to be terminated. I dont know how you can terminateyour education. Unfortunately, we that got it in a church type school which is an agency

of government or we got it in government type school called a public school. Either waywe got it from government so we did participate in the benefits, privileges andopportunities of government, didnt we, and didnt realize we were doing it. The fact iswed have been a lot better off if we didnt go to school. Thats the opposite ofeverything youve ever been told, isnt it?

[caller] Actually no, because I learned what I learned later in life that my fathersfirst cousin,., became educated himself and then he went on further and then educatedhimself further in a university but it wasnt government at that timeit was privately

[Howard] If it goes back far enough years back youre right. Some of the colleges

and institutions of higher learning were privately owned and were not licensed bygovernment but from about the 1920s on government started licensing all those things.

[Joe] What would say are benefits, privileges and opportunities?

[Howard] Going to their schools.

[Joe] But if you pay to go to that school it wasnt a benefityou paid for it.

[Howard] It doesnt matter. You took advantage of the benefit of it being there.

[Joe] Even though you paid for it?

[Howard] It doesnt matter that you paid for it. You took advantage of the benefit ofit being there. Youre taking advantage of the benefit of the roads being out there andyoure using the roads. Thats another thing that they claim is part of the benefits. Thelibraries are part of the benefits, the churches are part of the benefits. The hospitals arepart of the benefits.

[caller] The bus service.

[Howard] Yes, very good, the bus services are part of the benefits.

[Joe] ..{indistinguishable} part of their benefits tooright?

[Howard] Thats what they want to claim. Actually, they cant really claim thatbecause the roads are not dedicated to government use only. Theyre dedicated to bothpublic and private use and they have to be. They couldnt build the roads and deny youthe right to use the roads. The schools, thats theirs. The churches that have licenses,


17/27

thats theirs. The hospitals that have licenses, thats theirs. They can claim that thatsaccepting one of their benefits.

[caller] What about post office?

[Howard] Well, actually the post office was put there like everything else thatgovernment did originally for two purposes, for private delivery of mail for privatepeople from postal location to postal location and for government delivery of governmentpackages and mailactually, originally, two separate prices. The private people paid oneprice. I think it was four cents per one-half ounce was the price for what they call non-domestic mailnon-domestic meaning not within the domestic government anddomestic mail was three cents an ounce. Non-domestic was actually more expensive. Thepeople had to pay more for the mail to be delivered than the government did.

[caller] So what about utilities like water and lights, etc.

[Dave] All corporations.

[Howard] Yep, theyre all government owned and regulated corporations. The entireelectric supply business is owned and controlled by government. Even though there aresome private ownerships they only own half the business, the government owns the otherhalf. Theyre partners with the government. The telephone companies are the same way,theyre all part of government. They werent originally, but they are now and they havebeen the early 1970s.

[caller] A lot of these corporations that supply utilities get tax breaks therefore thatprobably would entangle them into being used as a benefit.

[Howard] Yep. Really, theres absolutely no way of avoiding some of the benefitsand living half way normally. I use very little of their benefits but I have to have thephone otherwise I couldnt do the work that I do. I have to have electricity or I couldntdo the work that I do. I need the photocopiers and the computers working and such so Ineed electricity. I need the phone to be in touch with people. So Im actually acceptingsome of the benefits that they have taken over. But they had no right to take these kindsof benefits over and make them benefits. So, really, theyre stretching the point goinginto those kinds of things. What was originally meant by benefits, privileges andopportunities of government was to join the government and work for them. After the14th Amendment they extended it to all these other things. Before the 14th Amendment itdidnt extend to these things. Of course, a lot of these things didnt exist before the 14thAmendment.

[Dave] What were originally of necessity are now benefits. Its called coercion.

[Howard] Um huh.


18/27

[caller] Is this the gentlemen who has the return to sender policy of all documentsmailed to your property?

[Howard] What about it? You statement didnt ask a question.

[caller] I was wondering if I heard them talk when you werethat one nightaboutreturn to sender and I was wondering like about what if you had been stopped fora ticket or something and then they serve you a summons and they come to your home,you cant send that back through the mail that way. They would be right there to see you.

[Howard] If you waited that long to do something you were too late. You cant sendthe summons back and think youre going to get rid of ittheyll just proceed withoutyou.

[caller] Well, he said his whole strategy was by returning these documents back

[Howard] Apparently, you didnt listen. His whole strategy is as soon as you get thedocument you send it back. So, if you got a traffic ticket you send it back right away.

[Dave] Immediately.

[Howard] Immediately. Now, if it gets back quick enough then they dont get it intothe process to go to the court.

[Dave] It has to be within 72 hours according to law.

[caller] You mean if they physically give you one then you send it back to them?

[Howard] Thats what were telling you.

[Dave] The definition of a contract does not change. The definition of a contract isthe offer, the acceptance of that offer at which time the contract arises by law by theacceptance and the offerer can no longer withdraw the offer. Thats why Howard teachesdo not accept their offers and do not consent to their proceedings.

[Dave] Thats why when you send it back, thats evidence of your non-consent.

[Howard] But if you didnt send it back then you accepted it and once youveaccepted it you better accept the summons to come to court then because if not, youregoing to be arrested.

[Dave] Because the contract was allowed to exist because you did not send itback, you kept it. And right in the initial information package is the definition ofappearance which, if you do anything at all thats beneficial to one party and detrimentalto another party such as keeping the papers youre making appearance in the case andthat is acceptance. The way to avoid it is to, as the documents explained, the definition of


19/27

acceptance is intent to retain. They dont care if you crumple it up and retain it in yourround circular file called a trash basket. If you keep it, thats retaining it. The only way tonot retain it is to send it back and a courtesy copy to the court clerkyou sent it back tothe issuer.

[caller] Ill have to learn how to do that better but I get the idea.

[Howard] Well, its got to be done immediately from the first contact. You cantstart in the middle of something and start sending it back to them because youve alreadyestablished the contract from the beginning so you cant change horses in the middle ofthe stream.

[caller] Within twenty-four hours in other words?

[Dave] Except for Internal Revenue Service because they collect that income taxunder a doctrine called voluntary compliance and you can continue to volunteer and

continue to comply until you decide to quit volunteering and send everything back thenthats your evidence of your intent to not continue to consent and I have continued to notconsent by sending everything back and they dont bother me anymore because I startedsending it back in the three-day priority envelope and it cost them $4.80 to get theirgarbage back and they decided it was costing them more postage to get their garbageback than it was worth to harangue methey dont bother me anymore. But they neversent it to me because I live in Delaware, spelled fully out in all lower case with nonumbers and they never sent it to me. They always send it to some fictitious place calledDE and some fictitious number, 11958, and I dont live in a fictitious zone whether itsfive numbers or two capital letters so I stopped committing mail fraud by receiving andaccepting fraudulently delivered mail or incorrectly delivered mail. I sent it back. If itdidnt come to Delaware spelled fully out with no numbers it wasnt for me because Idont live in fictions.

[Howard] But the point is he sent it back right away. What ever he got he sent it backright away, immediately. The first contact he sent it back right away. He didnt linger, letit lay around and show acceptance of it and then send it back six months later or arguewith the court six months later and send that back because thats only going to get you introuble.

[caller] So then you use lower case on your state and no military zoneright?

[Howard] You can use the zip, theres a way. The mail manual tells you a way thatyou can use the zip code. You put care-of in front of the street address. You put the zipcode underneath the street address and then you put the city and state underneath of thezip code and thats non-domestic mail. Now, somebody else came up with an idea and Iliked it and that is in front of the zip code you put the word, near. You dont live at thezip code. The zip code is for the post office, its not for you. You live near it. Well, yeah,you live somewhere near the post office otherwise the post office wouldnt deliver toyou. If you live so far back in the woods that they dont deliver at all then you wouldnt


20/27

be in their books or their information of any kind anyway. Ifyoure in the delivery areathen youre near the post office.

[Dave] The definition of in is inside. If youre inside, youre part of, youredomestic but if youre near youre not inside and I dont live in Delaware, I live on, on

top of the actual land, not in their fictions.

[Howard] But their domestic mail manual says that you put the name of the city andthe state last and put the zip code above that when youre non-domestic. When youredomestic you put the zip code last. So theyve given you a way to do it within their ownrules.

[caller] Its a trickery and its amazing. It would be hard to figure it out.

[Dave] Its just one of the information packages at the website,www.peoples-rights.com, all of Howards teachings collected through the years.

[caller] Basically, what youre saying is the governments playing the people witha stacked deck and the stacked deck is that youre already are going to lose until youlearn the trickery of the game.

[Dave] In the Bible its called come out from the fiction whore of Babylon thatthe BAR lawyers have created for you, come out from it and do not participate, be not apartaker with them in their frauds and fictions of two capital letters and numberedzonesbe not a partaker the Bible says. But for those students who may not be Biblebelievers the law says the same thing.

[Howard] Read the whole book.

[Dave] Who cares?

[Howard] Read the whole book.

[caller] Yeah, Ive read

[Howard] Well, read it again and look for it.

[caller] Ok.

[Howard] We are not preachers. We dont try to memorize verse and chapter so thatwe canone verse and chapter.

[caller] Revelation 13.

[Howard] Now, see, you shouldnt do that. Make people read the whole thinglooking for ittheyll learn a lot more.
http://www.peoples-rights.com/http://www.peoples-rights.com/http://www.peoples-rights.com/http://www.peoples-rights.com/http://www.peoples-rights.com/http://www.peoples-rights.com/


21/27

[caller] Every time I read that I get something new.

[Howard] Yes. Ive been looking through it, Ive read it five times. Ive been tryingto find this section in there that says God gave us rights. I hear this God given rights crap

all the time, I got God-given rights. Ive been trying to find out where God gave us anyrights. I cant find it anyway in there. Theres nothing in the Bible that says God gaveyou any rights. I found a lot of duties in there that have been imposed upon us and werenot following them.

[Dave] And responsibilities.

[Howard] Yeah, responsibilities, duties, what ever you want to call it and were notmeeting them at all, were failing terribly. But I cant find a thing in there that says Godgave us any rights. Rights were created by man related to property. The word, property,by itself, really doesnt stand, it isnt a word. The whole word is property rights. There

could be no property without having rights in the property. So man created that within thelaws that man has put together. And the basic concept of the formation of a governmentin this country was to protect private property rights and it is certainly a lost art. That mayhave been the basic concept from the beginning but it doesnt exist today.

[Dave] Because the lawyers cannot make any money at it.

[Howard] Well, under this 14th Amendment with Congress being able to regulate theterritories and other properties belonging to the United States and us falling in as propertyunder the 14thAmendment we have no right to property any more because were theirpropertywe are the property of the government. One of the things that I started doingand telling the government that I was doing thirty years ago was that I was investigatingthe government and, boy, did I get lambasted by a couple of judges, you cant do that.What do you mean I cant do that? You mean to tell me the American people cantcheck and make sure you clowns are doing what youre supposed to be doing? Thatsour business, we keep track of what we do, the judge told me. Well, by golly, in mystudies I did find that there is a section in Title 18 of the United States Code consideringanybody who investigates Anyway, that section in Title 18 makes it a criminal offenseto investigate the government and its activities in any way, shape or form. Well, I foundout where they got the authority to do that. In the 14th Amendment it says that the debt ofthe United States shall not be questioned. And everything to do with government today isrelated to debt, isnt it? The government is operating a credit money system and debtemanates from contracts for credit so the governments involved in a debt moneysystemthe end result of credit is debt and you cant question the debt. The 14thAmendment established that for governments benefit. So anything theyre doing isrelated to their debt and any investigation into that debt the government is creating isagainst the law.

[Dave] Thats only for citizens who cannot


22/27

[Howard] Theyve never prosecuted anybody that I knew of for doing it because Ithink they would make too much noise and end up with their foot in their mouth forprosecuting somebody. They sure push people around and try to keep you frominvestigating them.

[Dave] Thats the reason theres so much interest in this private attorney generalbusiness.

[caller] Like, for example, people who have paid for their homes, their land, andstuff, its just taxing theand theyre considered citizens or residents.

[Howard] Well, their property, you call it their home, their land, has been recordedin the state recording office and the state gives a copy of that to the federal government. Itnow becomes a territory of the United States. Under the section I just read to you, theCongress has the right to regulate and they can regulate through the states any territory orproperty thats in the control of the United States. Well, your propertys in the control of

the United States so through the state they regulate it by taxation. Thats how theyregetting away with this.

[Dave] It was yours until you recorded the deed at which point the land ceased tobe yours and became the governments trust estate property, not yours. And it doesntmatter if its deed recorded or a land patent recorded. If its recorded its in the hands ofgovernment and they have complete control over it. Under their commercial law whichgenerally is referred to as the Uniform Commercial Code but its codified in every state.Its one of the code books and in Section 3-503 I think it is theres a section calledHolder-in-Due-Course and that section reads this way: To the extent that the holder is aholder-in-due-course the holder takes the instrumentmeaning the piece of paperdescribing the propertytakes the instrument free of all claims by all parties. Now, thinkabout that and tell me whether or not you got any rights left in your property when itsbeen written down on a piece of paper like a birth certificate, a land deed registrationdocument, a automobile registration document, a puppy dog registration document, a gunregistration documentI dont care what it is that youve written down a description ofthis property on including your labor on a social security application. Tell me that you gotany rights left in that property. You cant tell me that you do. There are no property rightsleft for people. Government claims all right in property and they claim it through this 14 thAmendment.

[Joe] Question. Supposing the property was recorded but then you changed thedeed and the new deed was never recorded. How did that work?

[Howard] Well, weve done that and weve notified them, you cant change the deedwithout changing the ownership. So you have to show that the property was sold toanother person under a new deed and that new deed is not being recorded but the olddeed has to be removed from the records. Well, they dont remove it from the recordsthey keep it there and they keep imposing the tax on their computers because people whopush buttons on computers are generally college idiots and thats the best thing that they


23/27

can do is push buttons and they just push the reprint button and it reprints the tax billevery year and you keep getting a tax bill. Now whether you pay it or not is notimportant. You just keep getting a tax bill because they will not remove it from therecord.

[Dave] Until you send them Howards licensing offer which is an offer togovernment to license government to use your private property on condition they pay youthe annual rent.

[Howard] Well, that is a back-up document. The other document is called aDocument of Commercial Notice terminating the registration of the different types ofproperty including land deeds. Weve sent that to them. They usually send a letter backand say that theyre not going to terminate it until they get a court order and we sendthem a letter telling them that the court didnt record it, I did, and Im the only one thatcan un-record it and Im telling you, it is my order that you un-record it. Well, some ofthem have un-recorded it, believe it or not, and some of them havent.

[Dave] Until the court pays you your just compensation as required by the FifthAmendment the court has no interest to tell them anything.

[Howard] Thats what the Affidavit of Commercial Notice is all about. Youve hadthe property in your hands for X number of years since I recorded and you havent paidme so you owe me X number of dollars plus 18% interest each year since then.

[Joe] But does that work?

[Howard] Didnt you hear what I just said? In some cases they respect it and in othercases they ignore it.

[caller] Anybody able to collect on their money?

[Howard] Of course not, they dont have any money. Even if you won a judgmentagainst them in court youd never get a judge to order the collection.

[caller] Because he works for the government.

[Howard] Thats right, he works for the government. Hes not going to let thegovernments coffer be taken dry.

[Dave] The slave has no rights in the masters court.

[Howard] Thats correct too.

[caller] Howard, do you still recommend taking control of your strawman?

[Dave] Its not yoursyou never created it.


24/27

[Howard] Im trying to think of an answer to that because thats patriot bull shit.

[caller] Well, I dont mean to use that term, strawman

[Howard] Well, the term, strawman, is correct. This capital-letter spelled name is afictitious corporate name being used as a strawman because the government can dobusiness with you through that strawman name. So, thats correct, but taking control ofthe strawman, thats patriot bull shit.

[caller] What is the instrument that you file that you put all your property into sothat you notify them that its yours?

[caller] Thats called a security agreement.

[caller] The security agreement, is that filed with government?

[Howard] Yeah, it has to be filed in the Secretary of States office for moveableproperty and non-moveable which means like land. It has to be recorded

[caller] So, its filed, registered and thats the difference between them havingownership?

[Howard] No. Thats the difference between who claims the interest in the property.Ownership and interest is two completely different things. I own this piece of propertythat were sitting on because I bought and paid for it but I dont have any interest in itbecause the deeds recorded.

[Dave] They presume that you abandoned all interest by recordation of the deedand under their doctrine of escheat anything thats abandoned the title falls to the state.So, if you dont claim you have an interest in anything and everybody in your life that hasany value to you youre confirming their presumption that you dont give a shit becauseyouve abandoned all interest or claim of interest in those things and people because youdidnt say you do have a interest therefore youre reinforcing their presumption that itwas abandoned so they have all of the interest until you claim it back.

[caller] You claim that back by filing that and not registering?

[Howard] Well, it isnt registered to start with. Its filed with the Secretary of Stateor the County Recorder of Deeds and its filed there to establish public record that youhave the priority interest in the property. Now, if you cant enforce that priority interestyou might as well not bother to do it in the first place.

[caller] You say you cant force it, what do you mean by that, if you cant?


25/27

[Howard] Well, you want me to register my pickup truck? Its a seventy-nine Ford.It sold brand new for about $6000 in 1979. This is 2010. Its still got a farm use tag on it.Farm use is private useit doesnt have a state tag. Now, if they come around here andthey tell me, you cant do that anymore, you got to register that truck with the State, Iwill offer them a contract. My offer will be, when you pay me the $6,000 that that truck

was worth brand new I will then register it but until you give me just compensation Imnot giving you my truck. Now, I wouldnt be a damned bit surprised if something likethat didnt come to a shootout one day between me and twenty cops. And personally,even though I know a few and I happen to like them, theyre right decent guys, Iwouldnt give a God damned about killing a bunch of cops because theyre the biggestthieves walking the streets. Somethings got to be done about this but the poor dumb copsare told by lawyers that they can do this stuff and they dont know any better. Its ashame that theyre on the short end of the stick and Ive been warning them for years thattheres going to come a day when the American people are going to turn on governmentand when they do you better get the hell out of the way because youre the first one inuniform that represents government and youre the first ones theyre going to kill. And

Ive been warning them that seriously because I really dont want this to happen. I dontwant to kill any of them myself and I dont want them killed. Theyre stupid, ignorantpeople, they dont know any better. They dont realize that what theyre doing is wrong.Thats not a good excuse for killing them just because theyre stupid ignorant people.

[caller] The likelihood of that happening is nowthe people in America havebecome sheeple. Very few are willing to stand up.

[Howard] There is a violent time coming in front of us. I think the government willattack first and start the violence and I dont think the American people will put up withit. They will become violent in returnthats the way I see it working out. The Americanpeople will not start the violence first. Thats why I havent killed a bunch of cops butIve told the cops, I said, you know what, if I thought it would teach you idiots a lessonId kill a bunch of you but youre too God damned stupid to learn anything from it. Youwould think I was wrong. Of course, you realize the kind of an attitude they got, yourejust a militant. I dont want to have to follow through with any of this but I see the daycoming when its goingto be followed through with. Im probably going to be toodamned old to be a part of itIm already too old. Theyll have to come to my doorbefore Ill be able to participate. Im getting too old to go out there on the street andparticipate but I see this day coming and I see it coming because of the ignorance. Andeven the peoples ignorance will be set aside because they will feel the pressure of thewrongs that are being done to them and even though they understand why, what they dounderstand is youre taking away my life, my livelihood, youre interfering with what Iwant to do in life. Thatll bring the anger. Its not going to be that they understand.Theres not that many people that listen to these talks and its a shame because most ofthe people theyre too busy, they dont have time and theyre more interested in the ballgame or other silly foolishness or going to church or whatever foolishness they like inlife. Theyre much too busy to take time to learn anything. Besides that it might strain thebrainstem if they tried to learn anything so theyre not going to try to learn. It isnt goingto be knowledge thats going to change this. Its going to be anger and frustration over


26/27

the good things of life that were accustomed to and this is going on now and the violenceis increasing all the time. Read the newspaper, listen to the news on television, youllhear about it all the time. All kinds of violent stupid things are being done. Some guy inOhio bulldozed his $350,000 house, bulldozed it right to the ground. Im sure hes in jail.He did it so that the bank wouldnt have anything worthwhile after they repossessed it

and he only owed $160,000 on it. $350,000 house with a $160,000 remaining mortgageand instead of fighting them or claiming his just compensation for the full value of theproperty or learning to have any knowledge to stand up and fight anything like that he dida stupid thing of bulldozing the house and knocking it to the ground. Im sure hes in jail.

[Dave] Some banks out West are bulldozing down brand homes in brand newdevelopments because they cannot sell the houses that they have thrown the people out ofand foreclosed upon and they do not want to pay the property taxes so theyre bulldozingdown the house to lower the property taxes that the bank is stuck holding.

[Howard] But thats alright to do. The bank owns the house because they

repossessed it. They can bulldoze their own property but you cant bulldoze it when thebank is repossessing on you because you dont own it, you dont have a right to bulldozeit. Thats why I say, Im sure that guy in Ohio is in jail for destruction of property. It wasthe banks property he destroyed.

[caller] But the bank never gave him a loan, Howard.

[Howard] We know that but he didnt know it. He didnt know enough to stand upand argue and fight about it so he took the stupid approach of bulldozing the house.

[caller] And in simple words, ignorance is bliss.

[Howard] I dont know if ignorance is as bliss as it seems because the more thatignorance is showing its ugly face the more harmful it seems to be to the people. This iswhats causing the anger and frustration to build in the people. People are going to beready for a battle one day. When the government gets too forceful, that battles going tocome. God bless these people that are in uniform working as police officers, military andsuch, if they get in the way they are going to be killed and theyre not the guilty party.The guilty ones are the lawyer/politicians. The cops are just following orders. If theywerent so stupid maybe they wouldnt follow orders like that. They are stupid becauseeducations never taught us anything about private property. We have no knowledge orunderstanding of private property. The few people that listen to this call are learning alittle bit about private property but how many other speakers around this country aretalking about private property? Im about the only one. None of the rest of them are.Theyre all coming up with off the wall bull crap ideas like write a bond. Why in the hellwould you write a bond? The definition of a bond is a guarantee to pay. Why would Iwrite a bond guaranteeing to pay something that I dont owe? I dont owe the tax to theState on very many things. A business might, a commerce instrument of some kind mightcause there to be a tax owed to the State but most people dont really owe the Stateanything. Why would they write a bond guaranteeing to pay? That is a dumb approach


27/27

that somebodys putting out but its a big thing spreading all across this country. Write abond. Theyre not talking about private property; theyre talking about writing a bond. Idont know how many calls Ive gotten from people asking me, what do you think ofthis idea of writing a bond, this sounds really neat.

[Dave] And the BPN, Bonded Promissory note, same thing.

[Howard] Yeah, same thing, yeah. What do I think of it? I think its shear stupidity.Look up the definition in the law dictionary of a bond and then you decide whether its agood idea. The dictionary definition in the first line says that a bond is a guarantee to pay.Why would I guarantee to pay anything unless I want something? Now, if I want to buyyour fancy, completely revamped 1955 Thunderbird and you offered to sell it to me for areasonable price Id guarantee to pay you for it. Thats something worth having. A 1987Thunderbird, I know a junk dealer that would probably give you $100 for it. Thats morethan its worth but a 1955 Thunderbird, thats worth having. 02:31:00.426

..

.{02:35:45}[Howard] Theres a group out here. I dont know who they are, really. Ive talked toa few of them on the phone but Ive never met them and I never knew them before so Ihavent had any real dealings with them. But this little group has got a plan calledRestore America. They drafted up a letter and they sent it to all the governors of all thestates and its sort of a threatening letter because it tells the governors that they eitherhave to resign or they have to sign an oath of office agreeing to abide by the Constitution.Well, they are abiding by the Constitution. The 14th Amendment is part of theConstitution and thats what theyre abiding by. So their approach fell way short ofaccomplishing anything. Their approach should have been something to the effect of takea vote within the legislature and sign it into law that youre no longer accepting the 14thAmendment and go back to the de jure original Constitution. Now, if they would havephrased it that way and Im sure that wording could be improved upon and increased toquite an explanation of it but that was a simple enough way to put it, very direct. Make aresolution and sign it into law that youre no longer accepting the 14 th Amendment in thisstate and that from now on youre going to abide by the de jure original Constitution andthe original ten amendments called the Bill of Rights. That would have made adifference. What these people have done is absolutely nothing because they havent madea designation of what has to be done in order to go back to the original de jureConstitution. So the governors have already signed an oath of office when they tookoffice agreeing to support the Constitution including the 14 Amendment in this residencystatus of the people and the complete control over the people. So the governors are doingwhat the Constitution allows them to dotheyre not going to change it. {02:38:14.082}

2010May13 - Howard Griswold Conference Call

Documents

Transcript of 2010May13 - Howard Griswold Conference Call