2010Feb4 - Howard Griswold Conference Call

7/31/2019 2010Feb4 - Howard Griswold Conference Call

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Howard Griswold Conference CallThursday, February 4, 2010Partial

Howard Griswold Conference calls:218-844-3388 pin 966771# (6 mutes & un-mutes),

Thursdays at 8 p.m., Eastern Time.6 Mutes and un-mutes

Conference Call is simulcast on:www.TheREALPublicRadio.Net

Starting in the first hour at 8 p.m.

Note: there is a hydrate water call Mondays, same time and number and pin #.Howards home number: 302-875-2653 (between 9:30, a.m, and 7:00, p.m.)

Mickeys debt collection call is 8:00 p.m., Eastern Time, Wednesday night. The number is 712 432 8773 and the pin number is 947975#.

All correspondence to:Gemini Investment Research Group, POB 398, Delmar, Del. 19940

(do not address mail to Howard Griswold since Howard has not taken up residence in thatmailbox and since hes on good terms with his wife he isnt likely to in the foreseeable

future.)

"All" Howard's and GEMINI RESEARCH's information through the years, hasbeen gathered, combined and collated into 3 "Home-Study Courses" and

"Information packages" listed atwww.peoples-rights.com "Mail Order" DONATIONSand/or Toll-Free 1-877-544-4718 (24 Hours F.A.Q. line)Dave DiReamer can be reached at:[email protected]

Peoples-rights has a new book available from The Informer:Just Who Really Owns the United States, the International Monetary Fund, FederalReserve, World Bank, Your House, Your Car, Everythingthe Myth and the Reality.

Hell take $45 for the book to help with ads, but $40 would be ok which includes shipping($35 barebones minimum)

www.peoples-rights.com c/o 1624 Savannah Road, Lewes, Delaware 19958

********************Note Mickey Paoletta has a new study course starting June 3rd, Wednesday at 8 pm.,

Eastern Time. The course will last for six Wednesdays. The first session was held on June3rd.Send the fee ($250 MO) to:Mickey Paoletta, 1771 South Meadow Drive, Mechanicsburg, Penn. 17055Fax the MO and letter to Dianne and shell give you the tel # and pin #.

Put study course in the subject line of the e-mailDiannes telephone number is 570-388-0938

Dianne fax number is 866-390-2344
http://www.peoples-rights.com/mailto:[email protected]:[email protected]://www.peoples-rights.com/http://www.peoples-rights.com/mailto:[email protected]://www.peoples-rights.com/


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Diannes e-mail is:[email protected]

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Often you can find a transcript or a partial one for the weeks call at the following website:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/peoplelookingforthetruth

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{start of first file}[Howard] I dont get too much involved in the income tax fight because theres toomany people out there preaching too much garbage to go out there and go against it. I dontbother with it. If you learn enough about the secured interest and learn what I teach aboutCongresses authority to make the law to impose income tax you would know what to dowith your income tax.

[caller] Can I find that out in that IRS course?
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[Dave] Yes. Thats its called the Internal Revenue Service. If your earnings ormoney are from internal, the government, you do owe the tax and nobody can help you. Ifits not, if your earnings are your private money theyre not subject.

[caller] About three weeks ago, Dave, you had a sounded like a monolog on the

show and Id like to get a copy of that. Do you have a copy of it?

[Dave] Send me an e-mail and I will forward to you the transcript, that summary,38 years of research was in the transcript. E-mail to [email protected] and say that youwant the research summary. Its on the website. If you lose it go to www.people-rights.comand it says what the e-mail is on the website.

[desert]Dave, just a program note, therealpublicradio.net is tied in and were streaming soif anybody needs to save money on the telephone for free, therealpublicradio.net and wealso have the chat room so if any of Howard and Daves friends want to share informationor say hello during the conference call tonight they can go to our chat room and its good to

go. And as many people want to join in on the backroom conversation they can do that. So,good to go and good to be with you guys, tonight.

[Neil] Lets not forget, folks, a few dollars to desert owl and to Gemini would helpthese people out immensely for the research and all the work they provide for us.

[desert]Thank you for the heads up.

[Howard] I never even think to bring that up. God bless you.

[Neil] Well, I do, Howard, because I know you and Dave DiReamer and desertowl and a load of other people do a lot of the research. You guys do so much and people attimes just take it for granted and I just I could do more to help out too. So what you coulddo to help people is to get me or Howard invited as a guest to be interviewed on these talkshows and also you can have a seminar there in your town for the local people, yourrelatives or co-workers, or acquaintances, neighbors. We have an all day long presentationthat summarizes all of the research thats been gathered and collated since we started in1972 so thats 38 years of research thats

[desert]And, Howard, you were saying you wanted to do an interview on a particular topic.Im good to go whenever you are.

[Howard] Yeah, I got to get myself back on my feet and feeling better.

[desert]Ok, just let me know and we can pick the night thats the best for youok?

[Howard] I dont even remember what it was we were going to talk aboutitssomething you brought up.
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[desert]No, its something you wanted to talk about, about money or something like that,wasnt it?

[Howard] It was something you brought up and it led into something else and I said,yeah, we can do that; we can get together andprogram on your program on it.

..

.{00:33:39.810}[Howard] Anyway, Harold, I want to get up with you anyway. I got your number. Illbe calling you as soon as I get time to digest this motion you sent me. I want to go oversome of the parts of it and talk about whether or not you want to allow the persons nameand their personal information to go out with this.

[Harold] Actually that should be redacted.

[Howard] Yeah. Either that or maybe what we can do is re-type it and make a fill-in-the-blanks to go out with this type thing for people.

[Harold] Well, actually, I have it in Word so there wont be a problem with that.

[Howard] Ok.

[Harold] And that was a rush job, too, the actual motion itself because if you look atthe motion and then look at the reply you can see I spent more time with the reply. Thatswhere I slammed at is the reply.

[00:48:23.005][Jim] Howard, Ronald MacDonald was saying something that was quiteinteresting. They were fighting a tax case out in California. Apparently, Lockyear wasgoing after some guy out there for failing to pay taxes or something like that so RonaldMacDonald did some research and he found out that those laws they were trying to usewere all copyrighted and apparently you can copyright laws in the commercial jurisdiction.The real laws that apply to the people you cannot copyright. And he also found that thepresentment they sent to him was basically a bill of exchange. So I guess they sent that allback to Lockyears office and Lockyear withdrew the case and that was the end of the case.I thought that was kind of interesting.

[Howard] Yeah. As a matter of fact thanks to Dave DeReamer and his wonderfulwife

[caller] Would you translate what you just said about they sent it back tosomebodysLockyears

[Jim] Lockyear was the prosecuting attorneythat is correct. The attorneygeneral is actually what he was. Later I think he ran for office out there.


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[Howard] Did he sent it back with a neutral response letter, you said?

[Jim] No.

[Howard] No. He sent back all the information that they had compiled about why thiscopyrighted law was not government law.

[Jim] Commercial law.

[Howard] Its private law and it doesnt apply to the people. It applies to the privatecorporations such as the IRS and the Federal Reserve and the United States government,theyre private corporations. And this is what well get into in a minute and then, Dave, Iwant you to tell them then that you will send this out to them but hopefully youll send itout by e-mail, not by

[Dave] Its a thirty-six page transcript of the actual conversation of the interviewthat was given with Ronald MacDonald and anybody that wants it can just send an e-mailto [email protected] and tell me that you want the transcript of the Ronald MacDonaldinterview and they can read for themselves what he said.

[Howard] Ok, Im glad you clarified that because you cut in and starting talking aboutit when I said something about the three cases that you and your wife found this week thatwill show the reason why this is quite true and I hope you have them available to send outto people, too, on e-mail because his fax is horrible to read.

[Dave] Well, if you give out the cite of the cases people can go an look up thecases

[Howard] Yeah, they could. Well, Im going to give that out, tonight. But this is threecases that Dave and his wonderful little wife who spent hours helping us research foundand this really clarifies what Ive been telling you for years that the governments lawsapply to the government and they dont apply to people including income tax. It onlyapplies to government-granted privileges which are excises. The Constitution only gaveCongress the authority to lay taxes on imposts, duties and excises, not on private peopleand not through any perversion of law.

[caller] Howard, how then do they assimilate or make presumption and theconnection that we are part of that private corporation or United States. How do we get outof them making that assumption or deny or revoke it?

[Howard] I presume youre part of my mafia organization and I presume that yourethe one who stole the money that was due into the organization so I presume I can send myhit man to get rid of you. That answer your question?

[caller] Yes
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[Howard] Youre around, arent you? Youre here, arent you? Youre somewherenear us?

[caller] Yes.

[Howard] Well, then I can presume these things. And they are nothing but an evil dirtymafia organization.

[caller] I dont think I rate them that high or that low.

[Howard] An evil dirty mafia organization, theyre not a good mafia. But they dothings in that same manner. They just presume and they send their hit men out to clean outyour bank account or to put you in jail or if things are bad enough and they dont like youenough theyve been known to kill people.

[Jim] They ordered a lot of shotguns, I understand.

[Howard] Um huh.

[caller] Well, some nice ones, too, and thats just the agents.

[Jim] Howard, Ronald MacDonald was also saying that he dug something else upthat was quite interesting. He claims that you can join somebody elses case if you havesome sort of a right that you could losein other words, the other guys fight involves aright and

[Howard] Its called an amicurious brief. That means a friend of the court andwhatevers going on in this case will also adversely affect me unless it is understood how itadversely affects not only the defendant in this case or the plaintiff in this case but alsoaffects me so I can do this amicurious brief.

[Dave] He calls it common cause.

[Howard] As a friend of the court I can show the court that there is more details andmore involvement in this than whats been shown in the other case and its done all thetime.

[Jim] Now, he was saying he thought the patriots could help each other out byusing this.

[caller] Well, they could ifIll tell you what. If I had a case I dont want any helpfrom the patriot community. Then again, I dont want any help from a lawyer either. Like Itold the court one time, I said, judge I dont want a lawyer. Im perfectly capable ofscrewing something up all by myself. I dont need somebody else to do it for me like alawyer. And I definitely dont need a patriot foolishness. Theres an awful lot of hogwash


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to be polite as I can about it, information out here from the patriot community. Now,theres some good stuff but theres an awful lot of hogwash. And a lot of times somebodywill find something thats good and then they put their spin on it and it becomes hogwash.Actually, I bet if we look at the law and study what this Ronald MacDonald thing is allabout... You just made a comment, Jim, that they decided that it was a bill of exchange. Ill

guarantee you it wasnt. If you look closely at the law it was not a bill of exchangeit wasan assignment of a debt and thats all tax bills, traffic tickets, and demands for paymentbecause you didnt paint the rain gutter on time when you were told to and all these othergovernment documents that are sent to you claiming that you owe money. They are nothingmore than an assignment of their debt to you to pay their debts for them. Its anassignment, its not a bill of exchange. A bill of exchange is based on a contract and thevalue of that contract. And that contract has to be given over to the other for them to collectat the end of the contract in order for it to be a bill of exchange. Thats what it means byexchangethe bill gets exchanged to them from the beginning. Building contractors dothis all the time. They call it construction loans. They assign the contract over to the bank.Thats the collateral to secure the loan just like when you make a mortgage the house is

used to secure the loan. If they made legitimate loans these securities would be legitimate.Theyre not legitimate, theyre just assignments, today, because all youre doing is givingaway your propertytheyre tricking you into giving it away.

[caller] Howard, isnt that basically under the bankruptcy that they created?

[Howard] Well, its just one of the scams theyre running to keep their bankruptcygoing.

[caller] Howard, once when I paid the bill at the traffic court on the receipt the clerkwrote assignment because thats what it was for.

[Howard] Yep. Every once in a while we pick these little things up where they dothese things and realize what theyre actually doing but unless we see it happen it alludesus because the way they put this law together, the way theyve scattered pieces out throughtheir legislation its very hard to put the whole picture together. Thats why its taken methirty years of researching their laws to tie down as much as Ive tied down and shown youpeople because it wasnt easy to find. But any law that is copyrighted is private law. TheConstitution is not copyrighted the code books are not copyrighted. They cant copyrightthe code book.

[Henry] The Bill of Rights.

[Howard] Well, the Bill of Rights is part of the Constitutions and theyre notcopyrighted. But very little of the rest of the stuff, like the agency rules and regulations,thats all copyrighted because thats private law related to the agency. And, as a matter offact, theyll even take some of the law that is actually for the agency and copyright that tooeven though it came out of the Code. And textbooks that are written for students to studythe law and how it works so the lawyer or law professor that wrote them can copyrightthem because its his workits a work of art. Its his art but it is a work of art and he can


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copyright that. But you cant copyright the real laws. Thats why the United States Code isbroken down into two sections. And I forget what they call it. Theres a list in the front ofthe codebook that lists the different codes that are public law and real law and then theresa list that isnt public law. Thats all private law for these different agencies and its allinternal within government. It only applies to government. These lawyers teach these little

morons like IRS agents and police officers and people like that to come out here on thestreet and apply that law to you and make money off of you and what theyre doing isassigning their debts to you to pay their debts for them through the misrepresentation ofthese laws applying to you and your property. The real purpose behind this government isabsolutely fabulous. The way it was set up this would have been a utopia if it werent forthe corruption that has taken place from within and that has been there from the verybeginning. Some of the laws that were passed in 1791 corrupted the intent of theConstitution. Some of them went along with it and from there on it got divided into thosetwo sections, real public law that was actual law and private law that isnt actual law but itonly applies privately to a certain organization or a certain agency.

I want to go over these three cases. They really establish exactly what Ive been telling youand the three cases are a chain through history of this country from back in 1894, the oldestcase, up throughwell, one of them is dated 1949 and the other one doesnt have a datebut its in the reporter books even more recently than the 1949 one by the number of thebook and it shows the history from way back in 1894 of what the courts have ruled andright on up into more modern case law that is still respected. Some of that old stuff, they tryto say, well, thats too old, we dont use that anymore. But anything from 1938 in the ErieRailroad decision on is supposed to be what theyre applying and they try to ignore the oldlaw. Well, this series of these cases shows you that the new law and the new decisions areidentical to the old decisions and the court stated the same identical things and theyvealways held this. And heres what they held: The oldest case is Caha v. US150 USReports, pg. 211, 1894 case and in that case the court said, US regulations apply onlywithin US territories and the District of Columbia. The laws of Congress in respect to thosematters outside of constitutionally delegated powers do not extend into the territorial limitsof the states but have force only in the District of Columbia and other places that are withinthe exclusive jurisdiction of the national government meaning the territories, Puerto Rico,Guam and the Virgin Islands. Their laws do not extend to the states. That includes theincome tax laws. The income tax laws are internal to government. They can extend to youprivatelyweve over this beforeif you ask the government for a privilege such as beinga corporate officer of a corporation or having a license to do something that governmentlicenses and has the authority under the Constitution to license. Things like being a drugpusher called a doctor or being an alcohol dealer or manufacturer called a bar business orbeing a gun dealer. They claim they have the right because these are dangerous substances.Guns harm people when theyre misused. Drugs harm people when theyre used andalcohol when its misused harms people so they claim they have the right to regulate that.If you ask for a license to be involved in one of those things or to be involved in gamblinggambling is another thing that they consider to be harmful and they license itthen youput yourself in a position no matter where youre located in the world of having asked for aprivilege from government and they can tax that privilege. Other than that it does notextend to the rest of the people who didnt ask for a privilege other than the privilege of


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working for governmentthats always a privilege. That was the first case. The secondcase by dates is 1949. ThatsFoley Brothers v. Filardo and thats at 336 US Rpts, page281. That case said, somewhat more briefly, US regulations only apply within the USterritories and the District of Columbia. It is well established principal of law that allfederal regulations apply only within the territorial jurisdictions of the United States unless

a contrary intent appears. Well, the contrary intent that would appear would go back towhat they said in the Caha Case about outside of constitutionally delegated powers. Iftheyre regulating something like the banks, no matter where the bank is, the banks areagencies of the United States government. They have the power to coin money and regulatethe value thereunder under the Constitution, Article 1, Section 8, Clause 5. That clausegives them the authority to make laws that apply to these banks no matter where the banksare located. It applies to the bank and the bank only and not to you. But then again, I knowtheres a lot of people that want to deal with the banks that think they have to deal with thebanks for some stupid reason but the fact is, you and I should not be dealing with thebanks. They are government. If you dont want to deal with government dont deal withtheir banks. The third case doesnt have a date on it but its a newer Reporter Book. Its a

more recent case than 1949, probably sometime in the 1950s because the number is rightclose. The case is US v. Spelar. The cite on it is 338 US Rpts, pg. 217 and specifically atpage 222 the statement was made. And the statement says, US regulations apply onlywithin the US territories and the District of Columbia and they said the same thing threetimes in a row in all cases, didnt they? And then they went on to say, there is a canon oflegislative construction which teaches Congress a contrary intent appears within thelegislation. It is meant to apply only within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.US laws and regulations and rules and such only apply in D.C., Puerto Rico, Guam, theVirgin Islands and only to the government organizations that exist within those territories.

[Dave] And those two capital letter fictitious zones and

[Howard] See, thats fraud. That is perverting the constitutional intent of the law.Thats how theyve tricked the people by getting you to use their money and getting you touse their postal addresses and getting you to cooperate with filling out a 1040 form andfilling out a W4 form when you go to work and all these other shenanigans that does notapply to the people. Now, if youre going to argue these kinds of situations that that addressdoes not apply to you as Dave did say so adeptly a little while ago that you dont live inNY or he doesnt live in DE because theyre federal territories connected to the bankingsystem. Theyre districts of the Federal Reserve Bank. Thats not you, thats not youraddress, thats their address. But those laws, rules and regulations that try to apply that onlyapply to the territories and the functions of the government in the District of Columbia andnot to you out here. Dave was absolutely right, on point, with that address thing, that DE,that that does not apply to you. They try to apply it. They get away with it becauseeducation made us stupid. How many times have you heard me say that? That was thepurpose of education to keep us stupid so we wouldnt understand these things. I dontrecall in school any of these kinds of cases ever being taught. They never told us anythingin school about how the law applied only to government and not to the people. So they keptus stupid by not teaching us what they should have taught usright? And I guarantee youthat this is done on purpose so they could take unfair advantage of the ignorant population


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and they kept us ignorant through education and they definitely take unfair advantage of us.If youre going to argue something like this Ronald MacDonald article is about youve gotto understand those kinds of cases that their laws are copyrighted as private law for theirorganization and it only applies to them in their organization. It does not apply to meprivately in my private capacity. It applies to them privately in their private organization

capacity. Am I being clear with this? Is it helping to make it easier for you to digest whatIve been talking about in the past because Ive explained this same thing before, time andtime again?

[caller] Give that court case again.

[Howard] Which court case, there were three of them?

[caller] Well, give me the first one; I just got on here.

[Howard] The first one was Caha v. US152 US Rpts 211 [1894]. And the second

case wasFoley Brothers v. Filardo. Thats 336 US 281 [1949]. And then the last one wasUS v. Spelar338 US 217, 222. When you see it written like that the second page number isidentifying the page in the case that that particular statement is made on. And all three ofthe these cases start out saying the same thing, US regulations only apply within theterritorial jurisdiction of the United States and the District of Columbia. Territorialjurisdiction of the United States is Puerto Rico, Guam, the Virgin Islands and in years goneby Alaska and Hawaii but in the 1960s Alaska and Hawaii became participating states withthe fifty states of the Union and gave up their position as territories so it doesnt apply thereanymore.

[caller] Ok, thank you.

[Howard] Um huh.

[Jim] Oh, Im sorry, this is Jim from Michiganlong time no hearbeen verybusy. Its kind of sad when youre the one thats concerned about this government andwhat theyre doing and everybody doesnt want you to disturb their comfort zone.

[Howard] Yeah, there are people in your neighborhood no matter where you are in thecountry that are also involved in this but its might hard to locate those people. Most of theones in your neighborhood dont want to get involved.

[Jim] Right, Im all alone. Even my family dont want toso Im all by myself soItill I find somebody who understands where Im coming from.

[Howard] Well, theyll wake up someday.

[Jim] They will. Some of them will wake up too late.

[Howard] Yeah, a very rude awakening when they do awake.


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[Jim] Yeah, youre right. Its going to be very rudeyeah.

[Howard] Its going to be an awakening like an incident that happened here inSalisbury, Maryland last weekend. Thats right south of me about fifteen miles. This was

an act of absolute desperation. Theres a little article in Sundays newspaper about it. Thisfellow probably never stole anything in his life because he was a total incompetent thief.Anybody that steals learns how to do itgets better and better as they do it later in life.This guy evidently never had stolen anything in his life but apparently he was broke, hewas hungry, he didnt have any money, he didnt have a job, hed been looking for a jobprobably but he hadnt been able to find one so he got a hold of a gun and he walked intosome kind of a store in Salisbury and held the clerk at gunpoint and demanded the money.Well, the clerk must have talked to him because the article didnt go into the explanationbut the clerk held him up by talking to him about it, must have convinced him not to do itand in the meanwhile the owner of the business was in the back and he heard this going onso he snuck out the back and probably had a cell phone so he called the police. The police

came storming in with their sirens. The guy knew he was going to be caught so he shot andkilled himself. Id say that that is total desperation. He couldnt steal enough or somethingto get by with then he knew he was going to die of starvation so he might as well killhimself. Thats complete and total desperation. People are getting to that point in thiscountry.

[Jim] Really sad.

[Howard] Yes it is, its very sad, whats going on but like I said, its going to be a rudeawakening and probably at different times. Everybodys not going to wake up at once untilit comes to a total crash and theres no food at the grocery store to be bought. Theres noelectric in the wires anymore. The television doesnt work. The refrigerator isnt keepingthe beer cold. Man, Im telling you no money for gasoline and no gasoline available to putin your car and the tempers will flair.

[Jim] Dont be caught in the cities.

[Howard] Thats why the Bible says, get out of the cities because they will be laiddesolate.

[Jim] Its going to be chaos, anarchy.

[Howard] Well, anarchy is what we have now. Anarchy is not the way lawyers defineit. If you go look in a law dictionary it means confusion in law. It doesnt mean absence oflaw, it means confusion in law. Were living in anarchy because the law is all confused. Ijust showed you how its confused. They apply it in places where its not supposed to beapplied, where they dont have authority to apply it, thats confusion in law. Were livingin anarchy orchestrated and run by the lawyers yet.

[Jim] No, attorneys, twisters of words.


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government but it doesnt apply to you through that bank and cant apply to you throughthat bank. Theyre misapplying it.

[caller] Howard, how would you go about putting a case together to go into courtI mean youre not really suing anybody, but if you went to court to tell the judge that you

wanted a paper on him saying that you have the right to drive public highways with privatepropertythat way if the police pulls you over you just tell him the court mandate or orderfrom the judge that you are private?

[Howard] It would be quite an undertaking to put together enough case law and carrythis all the way through to one of the higher courts to get that kind of a decision in the courtbut there is a way to go about doing that. The form of law thats used to get into somethinglike that is called equity. You would be asking for an equitable decision in a court of equitythis would not be a regular law case. It would be equity and its done in the form of adeclaratory judgment and injunctive relief. The injunctive relief is an order ordering themto do something that theyre supposed to do or to cease and desist from doing something

that theyre not supposed to do and its not a case for money. It has nothing to do withmoney and suing for damages or anything like thatits just to get this decision in theform of an order declaring that something cannot be done the way that theyre doing it andordering them to cease and desist from continuing to do it. Thats declaratory andinjunctive relief but because this is such a racket that has been going on for such a longtime theyre not going to give this racket up easy.

[Jim] Theres a lot of money involved.

[Howard] The courts are making money off of this. The courts are part of the problem.Theyre allowing this to be done.

[Jim] Michigan is $94 million a year in traffic court, confiscation of vehicles andstuff, registrations.

[Howard] In the early 1980s I sat in a courtroom, one day, in a traffic court inMaryland and I added up the fines that were being imposed on all these people that werecoming before the traffic court and they had taken in over $6000 in the morning courtalone, in one morning. There were three different traffic courts in this particular courthouseso that was three times $6000 that they were taking in, in the morning and then they hadafternoon court and they took in probably another $6000 but I didnt sit through that oneand add up the fines. But thats, what, $36,000 a day in one courthouse in one jurisdictionhere in this country?

[caller] Well, Howard, if I pay $30,000 for an automobile and youre told thedepreciation is down to $400, thats all they can give me, isnt there a law case somewherethat they got to pay me for thethat I paid forI mean, the automobile.

[Howard] Well, it depends upon how old it is and what the condition of it is but, yeah,actually, the way Ive put this together Ive let the Department of Motor Vehicles know


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[Howard] Yeah, I sure did.

[caller] It would be a money order thenright?

[Howard] And actually, you should do everything in life with money orders. You

shouldnt have personal checks unless, of course, youre a business. Now, if youre abusiness with a privilege from government go ahead and use the checks. You put yourselfin their position but if youre just a private little person you shouldnt even have a checkingaccount.

[caller] And that would be because theyre saying that youre using a privilege

[Howard] Thats right, youre accepting one of their privileges so thats how theytie Now, thats fictitious. That is not really what it meant for them to create excises, notfictitious little excises like that that extend beyond the actual excise or privilege for a bankto exist. Theyre not supposed to be doing that. Thats part of this lawyer perversion of the

laws but they do it and theyre getting away with it and youre probably not going to stopthem because just like the traffic ticket and the income taxes on private labor theyve beengetting away with this for so many years and stealing so much money through it, youre notgoing to get them to change that very easily so I wouldnt even waste my time arguing overthe bank account thingjust dont have a bank account. If you get a paycheck there arecheck cashing places thatll cash it. Somebody told me that one of the cheapest places isWal-Mart. Wal-Mart has a check cashing setup. Theyll cash any kind of check, any sizecheck.

[caller] Yes, Howard, only one thing I believe they want your social securitynumber.

[Howard] Ok if you got your social security number covered on a secured interest yougot the priority interest in that social security number and the use of it so let them use it forcashing the check. They dont use it through the bank. They just use it to protectthemselves.

[caller] Ok, then I wouldnt use the 999 theory.

[Howard] Well, you could. I would. Ten years ago when I had that series of bad heartattacks I did something I swore Id never do. I went and got one of these useless piece ofjunk cell phones and in order to sign up for it they wanted the social security number so Igave them 999999999. They wrote it down and issued a cell phone to me. I didnt have anytrouble getting it

[caller] Howard, when I send in the first copy, not the amended copy but my firstcopy I believe I paid for it with a personal check could that actually come back on me?

[Howard] Well, probably not but if it ever did youd have a devil of a time showingthat you were private and that you had an interest in something like that when you were


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using their benefits. For most people it probably wouldnt come back but if you werearguing income tax and trying to say that your income was from private sources they wouldtry to show in the court that you used a checking account and that that made it not privatesources, that made it privileged. So there are ways that it could come back on yousomeday.

[caller] How about debt relief, it come back on that one, too?

[Howard] Debt relief, the best thing you can do with debts is learn how to go to courtand fight them and eliminate the debts. Dont go to these debt relief places thatll set youup with a payment plan.

[caller] Im sorry I guess I misspoke that but using the security agreement toeliminate like a credit card or something thats what I was wondering because I have afeeling that thats the way Im going to end up using my security agreement.

[Howard] We have used the security agreement in the past to eliminate credit cards.Some individuals were very successful. Weve even had some people eliminate mortgagesusing the security agreement. The few that have done that successfully are very few. Itstoo damned complicated but what Mickey Paoletta has put together to argue these debts hasbeen working like a champ and all hes done is researched into their laws just like we doand he went deeper into the debt laws and he found a bunch of stuff that prevents themfrom getting away with the debt collections that theyre doing. Hes teaching people how todo it and its working quicker and easier because its simpler than the security agreement.Now, that doesnt mean the securitys not still a good thing to have because if they got anold judgment on you and they try to collect it the security agreement will prevent thecollection.

[caller] Mickeys eliminating mortgage debts?

[Howard] Well, Mickey just had one of his people up in Maine win a mortgageforeclosure casegot a default judgment against the bank for not answering the casebecause the case is not answerable.

[caller] Colorado too, one in Colorado also.

[Howard] Got another one in Colorado? Good.

[Dave] And we discharged all those hospital bills.

[Howard] Well, thats another thing, weve used the security agreement to get rid ofthings like hospital bills because the hospital system is part of government. Now, thatsunconstitutional but they do it. Now, these three cases that I just talked about tonight,theyre very closely related to what I talked about a week or two ago about the TenthAmendment and the fact that the legislature of the states has the right to reject any UnitedStates laws that are not within the constitutional confines of the governments authority and


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if the state legislature doesnt take action and do it the people have the last word and thesecases back up what youre doing. Just reject their law and tell them youre not going to letit apply to you because it doesnt apply to you and you reject it, you nullify it. Thats theright of nullificationyou can nullify their laws. If they pass this health care plan or thiscap and trade foolishness about carbon imprints and global warming and all that

foolishness I dont know, I think Mother Nature just got in their way this year.Washington, D.C. has already exceeded their record yearly snowfalls and were only in themiddle of the winter.

[Dave] Tell them the story about George over in Connecticut and his intent. Henever intended and that it was a mistake and the judge had totime served and that wasthe end of it.

[Howard] See, these cases back up what George did. We didnt have these back then.All this research just takes time and the realization of what were looking for takes time tocome to our thick little heads. But, finally, it comes to my thick head and I get somebody

else like Daves wife or my wife or one of the other girls that works with us when I gotmoney to pay them to get on the computer and do some research and find these kinds ofcases to back these things up. But George beat his case on income tax. It was a willfulfailure to file and defrauding the United States government. Willful failure to file at thattime carried a one-year jail sentence and defrauding the United States government carriedand I think it was up to four years in jail and they charged him twice for two years. Theycharged him of willful failing to file and defrauding the United States. And he could havegone to jail for ten years and he didnt have a whole lot of extra money so he just told themto give him a lawyer. So they gave him a lawyer. This little twerp refused to use anythingthat we showed him. As the trial proceeded and they got to the part where the defense issupposed to get up and present their arguments this little twerp stood up in front of thecourt and said, the defense rests. He didnt even put on a defense for George. We hadprepared a motion in the middle of the trial and I dont remember the name of it now butits a motion for a final judgment, right now, at the end of the plaintiffs presentment oftheir arguments and their evidencemotion for acquittal, thats what its called. Thesenames slip my mind. And, of course, we showed it to the lawyer. He wouldnt put it in sowe put it in and the judge said, well, you cant do that. You got to through your lawyerwhen you have a lawyer so I cant pay attention to this but I see what youre saying. I said,George, were on the right track. We can beat both of these lawyers, the one they gave youand the one thats prosecuting you. We just got to stick to this point. Well, naturally, itcame time for the summary and the US attorney got up there and told the jury howeverybodys got to pay their fair shareIm sure youve all heard that beforeand Georgedidnt pay his fair share and hes guilty of willful failure to file and defrauding the UnitedStates and, of course, the jury came back with a guilty verdict. I think it might have beenbecause of the motion for acquittal that we put in, the judge decided to give him a littleextra courtesy. Now, theyll do this for lawyers, theyll do this for doctors, professionalcourtesy. Theyll give them a little extra time before they sentence them. George wasnt alawyer or a doctorno reason for them to give him any professional courtesy but they did.They gave him sixty days to go home and prepare himself for sentencing. Well, in thatsixty days we made up a 1040NR, thats a non-resident alien form. And we showed that his


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income was not from residency from within the United States but the income was fromsources without the United States and then we attached a copy of Title 26 of the UnitedStates Code, Section 864(c)(1) & (2). (C1) says income from sources within the UnitedStates are taxable and income from sources from without the United States are not taxable.Well, by golly, doesnt that fit right under what I told you about these three cases? The

laws only apply within the United States and its territorial jurisdiction. They dont apply toprivate people. Well, when it came time for sentencing George wrote up a little explanationof this and he got up in front of the judge and he started to read the explanation and after hegot a little bit far into it, not quite all the way through, but kind of far into it and recitedwhat 861 of the IRS Code said. The judge said, I see what youre doing. Sit down, George,Ill take care of this. And George said, I want to get this on the record for appeal. Hesaid, sit down, I told you Ill take care of this. George sat down so the judge proceeded toexplain this on the record so that he covered himself. And what he explained was thatyouve been charged with and found guilty in front of a jury of willful failure to fileincome tax on two counts and defrauding the United States government on two countswhich allows me to sentence you for up to ten years. Well, about then George popped

back up and he says, thats why I want to read the rest of this and get it on the record.And the judge said, George, I told you Ill take care of this, now sit down. So finallyGeorge sat down and the judge said, Im going to sentence you to the whole ten years andstrike ityou may go home. This was in 1987. You know how many tax cases there havebeen since then and how much Ive talked about this around the country in seminars,private calls with people and such, and nobodys been able to use this effectively yet exceptGeorge. Maybe some of you will understand this well enough when you apply it to thosethree cases that the territorial jurisdiction of the United States is the only place that theirlaws apply. Title 26 does not apply anyplace else except within the United States. We donot live in the United States. This is America. The United States is a corporation located inWashington, D.C. You dont live there unless you work for the United States governmentor one of its political subdivisions called the state of or the county of or the city of or thetown of. Then youre in the government.

[caller] Title 26, Section 864(c)(1) & (2).

[Howard] Right.

[caller] And the thing was a 1040NR?

[Howard] Right. Now, see, by doing that he filed the form so he couldnt be guilty ofwillful failure to file because he filed but in filing he showed that his income was fromsources outside the United States. Well, thats what the Section 862 or 860 it starts at is thesource of income. That whole little group there in the 800s is source of income, thats thetitle of that portion of the Code and under the source of income at 864(c)(1) & (2) itexplains very clearly that if the source is not within the United States which means thegovernment and its privileges that it gives out then its not taxable and George walkedaway a free man. But he wasnt too free. This little twerp lawyer met him out in thehallway, went running up to him jumped up in his face, wrapped his legs around GeorgeGeorge is a big man, hes about six foot fivethis guy was a little terpand he wrapped


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his legs around George, put his arm around Georges neck and began to pound on Georgesface with his other hand. Luckily, one of the US marshals there at the court saw thishappening, came up and pulled the little twerp off of George and asked George if hewanted to prosecute him for assault. George said, no, hes a idiot. George was too nice,he let him go, he should have prosecuted him. The little twerp was upset because he didnt

help them to win the case and get paid and thats where we found out that these lawyers allget paid for winning these kinds of cases. They get little bonuses. He wanted his bonusmoney and he didnt get it because George pulled the case out from under him.

[caller] Howard, we hear a lot about Mickeys work and all this. Is he going to haveanother seminar or does he actually help people for a donation or how?

[Howard] He actually helps people. Get in touch with me and Ill put you in touchwith him.

[caller] Well, that sure was a lot of information but it just seemed like it was

untouchable.

[Howard] Well, for a donation he has all kinds of information available that hell sendto you for the donation. Any of us that are doing this need a little bit of donation to coverour costs because printing costs and mailing costs and replacing the damned printers andcomputers and stuff like that is expensive. We need a little bit of donation to help supportwhat we do. Mickey doesnt ask for money like lawyers charge. I dont ask for money likelawyers charge I probably wouldnt have near as many cases. If George could have paid alawyer but would have paid me instead Id have been set for life off of winning his case forhim.

[caller] Thats what these crooks do. They pay these lawyers thousands of dollars sothey can get of jail.

[Howard] Old expression in this country: Money talks and bull shit walks. If you gotenough money to buy the talker that can bull shit good enough youll walk.

[Henry] Give the lawyer enough money and then hell pay the judge off.

[Howard] An old friend of mine had a bar up in Baltimore and he was very active inpolitical circles and stuff and he had a big sign hanging on the wall in his bar that said,Maryland has the best judges that money can buy.

[caller] Well, one of the owners of the Federal Reserve, the Rothschilds, the mainone, said allow me to print the money of a country and I care not who makes his laws.

[Henry] The Rockefellers are the ones that started the Federal Reserve.

[Howard] Well, you know what, nobody really cares who started the Federal Reserve,its not even important. But theres a whole lot of hullabaloo and people have to talk about


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this and blame somebody else. This is the Babbit case, God made her do it. Always blamesomebody else. Never accept the blame yourself. The Federal Reserve put all this stuff outin front of us and we accepted it. Whos really responsible for this being wrong.

[caller] We consented to it.

[Howard] You consented to it. Youre responsible for it. Dont worry about who didit, its not important.

[Henry] It was our forefathers in 1913 that accepted it and got us into it.

[Howard] No, it wasnt either. It was the politicians in 1913 that put it all together andoffered it to you or your father or your grandfather.

[Henry] I wasnt around then. I said, our forefathers.

[Howard] But when they accepted it and then the next generation accepted and thenext generation accepted it, it became law. And when everybody accepts something and itbecomes the norm then it becomes law. Now, it might be bad law. It might be phony lawbut it becomes the law until somethings done about and the history of the world shows thatthis has happened several times before and the only thing that resolved it, it turned out tobe, was violence. I would like this time to resolve it without violence. I dont think thatspossible but I would like that.

[Henry] It would be nice but its not going to happen.

[Howard] Im like Roy Rogers, Im a peace-loving man. Ill beat the living hell out ofyou just so youll be peaceful. Any of you that are old enough to remember the Roy Rogersshows

[Henry] I watch them every day.

[Howard] He was a peace-loving manremember? And he beat the living hell of youuntil you became peaceful.

[Henry] Well, the problem with that is that they know we want to be peaceful aboutit so they go and they go and they pick you off. Theyre not going to be peaceful about it.Theyre going to be very quiet about it but theyre going to pick off the people that startingmoving the movement and they do it with force and putting an end to their life so theyrenot thinking about peace at all.

[Howard] No, but Ill tell you what, theyre beginning to lose in the courts and thereason theyre beginning to lose is because of the concentrated efforts like Mickey has putout and like Ive put out and other people that have helped both Mickey and I to do some ofthe research and what weve found and how weve learned to use it in their courts and it isstarting to work finally. It did work back in 1987. You just couldnt get some of this stuff


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through some of these thick-headed people. Most of the people that live in this countryactually think they live in the United States because news media tells you that. Churchpreachers tell you that. School teachers tell you that. You got it in your head that we live inthe United States. You dont understand that the United States is a corporation located inWashington, D.C.

[caller] They even tell you were a democracy and were not, were a republic.

[Howard] Well, no we arent. We have a republic and its a democracy that runs therepublic. Both of them were set upit was a dual system of government. The privatesector was the republic and it had no authority whatsoever to tell government what to do.So, why in the hell did you register to vote.

[Henry] Roosevelt under his New Deal destroyed the republic. Thats when the newgovernment was formed called the democracy.

[Howard] Nopewrong.

[caller] I think, Benjamin Franklyn when they came out, they asked him what kindof government that they have. He said, we have a republic.

[Howard] For as long as you can keep it. And then, George Washington saideducation will be the ruination of this nation. Boy, was he an intelligent man. He knewthat they would educate the people improperly so that the people didnt know how tomaintain the republican form of government. The people have retained the republican formof government because that is the people, the private sector. But the government is ademocracy.

[caller] I found it to be on my end more of an allegory.

[Howard] Yeah, it sort of is. Presidents have taken over as dictators like the one thatHenry just mentioned, Roosevelt. He was a dictator. He dictated that certain things weregoing to be done and the damned Congress went along with him and agreed to it and madeit law. Barack Obama has tried to do a little bit of dictating and theyre not going alongwith him because what hes dictating isnt what they want so theyve ignored him andforced him to get on the bandwagon and go along with the things that they want.

[caller] I look back to 1783 with the Treaty of Peace being, I believe its called thetrinity and signed by our representative out of the District of Columbia, not reallyrepresenting the states so I dont know where it began but I know its a mess.

[Howard] Well, Ill tell you where it began. In 1871 in the Statutes of Congress AtLarge there is legislation passed by the corrupted Congress that we had at that timeorganizing and establishing a new corporation called the United States to replace the onethat was organized by the Constitution in 1789. The original one if you go look at theConstitution, it did establish a corporation because all governments are perfect


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corporations. They function as a corporation does. So the Constitution established acorporation called the United States of America. This new legislation in 1871 established adifferent corporation called the United States. They left off the of America. Later on in1871 Congress passed another little piece of legislation making all the states agents of thenew corporation, The United States. That was where it changed, right there. Now, from

there on, the changes have been implemented through the bankruptcy, through the newmoney system and the Federal Reserve Bank and the perversions of the originalConstitution and the residency. The people are considered to be residents because you livehere. Were back to what I explained to that man about the Mafia. Because youre near bywe can presume that youre the problem that we have and we can presume that we need toprosecute you in some way, either shoot you and get rid of you or put you in jail or bar youfrom doing business with us or anything we want to do because youre here, youre nearby,so we can control you. Thats a presumption based on this concept of residency. That allcame from the 14th Amendment which was passed in 1868. And then this new corporationwas established based on that concept from the 14th Amendment in 1871. And then, allthese other pieces have taken place over the years. They have perverted the Constitution in

one way or another. Go back and look at the original draft of the 14

th

Amendment. It wascalled the Civil Rights Act of 1866 and it was presented to President (Andrew) Johnson,the one that followed Abraham Lincoln. Johnson wrote a big, long dissertation vetoing theCivil Rights Act of 1866 and in that long dissertation what he said was that this entire actwas unconstitutional because government had no authority to regulate society, to createsocial programs such as education, such as medicine, medical care. They had no authorityto do this. Thats why he vetoed the 1866 Civil Rights Act. Congress then turned that intoan amendment to the Constitution which didnt need the presidents signature to be passedit needed the vote of the people. And because of the Civil War and all the turmoil at thattime the 14th Amendment looked good so the states accepted itsome of them. Butinterestingly enough, the states that accepted it were not a sufficient number to meet thelegal requirement for an amendment to be accepted at the time within the time limit that allthe states were supposed to accept it and states like Maryland, for instance, its on therecords in Marylands archives that they accepted the 14th Amendment in 1959. They didntaccept it back in 1868 at the time it wasit was supposed to be done while Congress wasstill in session in 1868. Thats what the rule of amendments requires. It has to be acceptedby all the states legislatures and it has to be accepted in exactly the form that its writtenin. If you go trace these different states down youll find out a lot of the states changed thelanguage of the 14th amendment and then accepted it. Some of the ones that did accept itand a lot of the states didnt accept itand not enough of them had accepted it to meet thetwo-thirds majority for it to become actual law. So the 14th Amendment never really cameinto effect by law but through the perversion of the courts and the lawyers they haveimplemented it ever since 1868 and then the lawyers that got into Congress that were abunch of scum bags, they passed this law establishing the new corporation called theUnited States. And everything, today, is being operated under this new corporation calledthe United States which is actually a foreign sovereign taking over the original sovereigntyof the United States. And if you look into international law this is allowed to happen. Aconquering sovereign can take over another nation but according to international law whenthey do this they do not acquire any rights or powers that didnt exist prior in the originalsovereignty that was there. 00:29:08.137

2010Feb4 - Howard Griswold Conference Call

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