Technical Committee No. 3 Documentation and graphical...

SEABB/KS 19087-640Created: 98-02-16, Printed: 98-02-21Keywords: tc3, meeting, minutes, new delhi

For IEC use only3/522/RM

REPORT OF MEETING1998-02

INTERNATIONAL ELECTROTECHNICAL COMMISSION

Technical Committee No. 3 Documentation and graphical symbols

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Denmark Mr. Ib Gunnar Joergensen

Mr. Karl-Anker Thorn

Finland Mr. Tapio Viitanen

France Mr. Jean Dubray

Germany Mr. Erich Abel Chairman SC3A

Mr. Fritz Reuter Chairman SC3B

Mr. Hans Brueckner

Mrs. Anette Schwuchow Observer ISO/TC145

India Mr. J. Pande

Mr. M. N. Murthy Observer

Mr. V.K. Khandelwal

Indonesia Mr. Ramses Hariandja

Mrs. Cicih Munarsin

Mrs. Ratni S. Pandia

Italy Mr. Guiseppe Chiarella

Japan Mr. Hiroaki Ikeda

Mr. Mikio Tagaki

Mr. Yuji Nakamura Chairman SC3C

Netherlands Mr. Arnold Gehner

Mr. Frans van Noesel Secretary SC3D

Norway Mr. Eirik Selvik

Mr. Jan Pettersen

Sweden Mr. Bert-Inge Sjögren

Switzerland Mr. Andrzej Fornalski Secretary SC3A

United Kingdom Mr. Donald E. Radley Chairman SC3D

Mr. Geoffrey. B. Nicholson

13 National Committees represented, 24 delegates, 2 observers

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List of Contents

1. Opening of the meeting. ............................................................................................ 6

2. Approval of the Draft Agenda. ................................................................................... 6

3. Confirmation of the Minutes from the Meeting held in Helsinki 1996-10-30,document 3/502/RM. ................................................................................................ 6

3.a) Consideration of the Report from the Secretary of TC3, document 3/512/INF. . 6

4. Report from the Chairman of TC3.............................................................................. 6

5. Note of the publication efforts of document 3/484/INF Future standardisation needsin the field of documentation. Consideration of this report in the light of the Reportfrom the ISO High-Level Steering Group on CALS,document 3(New Delhi/Secretariat)9 (equivalent to document SB3/13/INF). .............. 7

6. Presentation of and consideration of the result of the Workshop 1997-10-20,Annex A. (Related documents 3/506/INF, 3/507/INF, 3/508/INF..................................... 7

7. Report from the Chairman of SC3A - Graphical symbols for diagrams -and relevant decisions, Annex B................................................................................ 7

8. Report from the Chairman of SC3B - Documentation - and relevant decisions,Annex C.................................................................................................................... 9

9. Report from the Chairman of SC3C - Graphical symbols for use on equipment -and relevant decisions, Annex D ............................................................................... 9

10. Report from the Chairman of SC3D - Data sets for libraries - and relevant decisions,Annex E. ................................................................................................................... 10

11. Report from the latest meeting of Sector Board 3 (SB3) and Sector BoardAd Hoc Group meetings (SB3AHG). .......................................................................... 10

11a) Consideration of the degree of involvement in SB3 activities............................ 11

12. Updating and consolidation of the organisation of TC3 with Sub-Committees andWorking Groups, document 3/519/INF. ..................................................................... 11

13. Report on and consideration of the availability of data base applications via theWWW at the CO, e.g. for a graphical symbols data base, etc., and relevant decisions.12

14. Consideration of document 02/1095/RCA, Report from Chairman Group A andTechnical Director on procedures of horizontal technical committees, item 2,regarding proposed changes of procedures for the standardisation of graphicalsymbols. Given comments from TC3 given in document TC3/02/1095/RCA. .............. 13

15. Consideration of the Report from IEC/TC3 - ISO/TC184/SC4 JWG9 - Electricalapplications of ISO 10303 - Product data representation and exchange - andrelevant decisions, documents 3/515/INF and 3/511/WG........................................... 13

16. Consideration of the Report from IEC/TC3 - ISO/TC10 JWG10 - Joint WorkingGroup on harmonisation of diagrams and graphical symbols for diagrams -and relevant decisions, document 3/518/INF, and 3/513/WG.................................... 13

16a) Discussion on the disbanding of the Working Group JWG10. ............................ 14

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17. Circulation of document 3/504/INF Normative references to non-IEC Standardsin publications from IEC/TC3 with SC’s, and relevant decisions.................................. 14

18. Circulation of document 3/509/INF Terminology in the area of TC3, andrelevant decisions ..................................................................................................... 14

19. Discussion of the Draft Strategic Policy Statement, included indocument 02/1002/RCA. .......................................................................................... 15

20. Review liaisons with other bodies (not already covered):............................................ 15

20. a) Note of the circulation of document 3/503/NF The role of liaison officers,and relevant decisions. List of liaison officers, Annex G ............................................. 15

20. b) IEC TC16 Terminal markings and other identifications [Liaison officer:Mr. J. Pettersen], document 3/514/INF. .................................................................... 15

20. c) IEC TC44 Safety of machinery - electrotechnical aspects [Liaison officer:Mr. T. Viitanen], document 3B/214/INF. .................................................................... 16

20. d) IEC TC52 Printed circuits [Liaison officer: Mr. F. van Noesel],document 3/521/INF. ................................................................................................ 16

20. e) IEC TC65 Industrial-process measurement and control [Liaison officer:Mr. F. Reuter], document 3B/231/INF. Discussion about co-ordination with respectto document 65B/312/AC Setting up of WG 10: Classification and documentationstructure of measuring equipment.............................................................................. 16

20. f) IEC TC93 Design automation [Liaison officer: Mr. F. Reuter],document 3/516/INF. ................................................................................................ 16

20. g) ISO TC10 Technical drawings, product definition and related documentation[Liaison officer: Mr. J. Aagaard], document 3/520/INF. .............................................. 17

20. h) ISO TC184/SC4 Industrial automation systems: External representation ofproduct definition data [Liaison officer: Mr. F. Reuter], document 3/515/INF. ............. 17

20. j) ISO/IEC JTC1/SC2 Coded character sets [Liaison officer: Mr. F. Reuter],document 3B/517/INF. .............................................................................................. 17

21. Review the Programme of work, document 3/510/PW. .............................................. 17

22. Any other business:................................................................................................... 17

22. a) Note of the new TC3 WWW-site on the IEC-server .......................................... 17

22. b) Discussion of the experiences of the use of electronic exchange ofdocuments. ............................................................................................................... 18

22. c) Consideration of marketing efforts: pamphlet on documentation, presentationpages on the web...................................................................................................... 18

22. d) Handling of bilingual documents in electronic form by the Central Office. ......... 19

22. e) Consideration of data element type definitions in IEC TC3 (SC3A, SC3B)standards; needed actions. ....................................................................................... 19

22. f) Consideration of data element type definitions in product committees standards; needed actions, document 3(New Delhi/Germany)8. ................................................ 19

22. g) Beaver of the year........................................................................................... 19

23. Date of next meeting. ................................................................................................ 19

24. Close of the meeting. ................................................................................................ 20

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Annex A Result of the TC3 Workshop on new Project proposals, 1997-10-20.................. 21

1. Opening, general introduction .......................................................................... 21

2. Presentation and discussion of Project description: Fully electronic handlingof graphical symbols with attached information, document 3/506/INF ........................ 21

Summary with regard to the proposals in 3/506/INF: .................................................. 22

3. Presentation and discussion of Project description: Information anddocumentation created after the commissioning phase, document 3/507/INF ............ 23

4. Presentation and discussion of Project description: Companion standard toSTEP AP 212: Electrical design and installation, document 3/508/INF ...................... 23

Annex B Report from the Chairman of SC3A ................................................................... 24

1. Situation in the Working Groups ....................................................................... 24

2. Publications being printed ................................................................................ 24

3. Programme of SC 3A ....................................................................................... 24

4. Electronic handling of graphical symbols .......................................................... 24

5. Common ISO/IEC standard on graphical symbols ............................................. 25

6. P-Members ...................................................................................................... 25

7. Term of office of the Chairman of SC 3A .......................................................... 25

Annex C Report from the Chairman of SC3B .................................................................. 26

1. Issues dealt with on 3B(Secretariat) level ......................................................... 26

2. Issues dealt with on WG level .......................................................................... 27

3. Strategic Policy Statement ............................................................................... 28

4. Co- ordination .................................................................................................. 28

5. Other business ................................................................................................ 28

Annex D Report from the Chairman of SC3C ................................................................. 30

1. Publications ..................................................................................................... 30

2. FDIS’s ............................................................................................................. 30

3. Committee Drafts............................................................................................. 30

4 New Work Item Proposals................................................................................ 30

5 New structure of IEC 60417 ............................................................................. 30

6. JWG IEC/SC3C - ISO/TC145 JWG11 "General principles for graphicalsymbols for use on equipment".................................................................................. 31

7. Further comments............................................................................................ 31

Annex E Report from the Chairman of SC3D.................................................................. 32

1. Membership SC3D [according to the IEC Directory of October 1997]: ............. 32

2. Name and scope of the Subcommittee ............................................................. 32

3. Working Groups............................................................................................... 32

4. Committee drafts ............................................................................................. 33

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5. Results of the SC3D meeting, October 23rd 1997 in New Delhi ........................ 34

6. Relations ......................................................................................................... 34

Annex F Proposed working procedure for the TC3 Task Force ........................................ 36

Annex G List of liaison officers ....................................................................................... 37

Annex H List of meeting documents................................................................................ 37

Annex J List of decisions ................................................................................................ 38

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The Chairman, Mr. Bodin, opened the meeting and welcomed the delegates.

He gave a special welcome to the Indian delegates (in Hindi) and gave thanks for kind hospitality,and to Mr. Cordelier from the IEC Central Office.

2. Approval of the Draft Agenda.

The draft agenda, document 3/505A/DA (modified), was approved, but it was decided to change theorder of the discussion of some items and to discuss item 12 and 13 together.

3. Confirmation of the Minutes from the Meeting held in Helsinki1996-10-30, document 3/502/RM.

The minutes from the last meeting in Helsinki, document 3/502/RM were approved.

The Chairman informed about the new procedures with regard to the approval of minutes: in thefuture the minutes are automatically approved 2 months after the circulation, if no objections areraised.

A question was asked on how to do in such a case, and the conclusion was that a message should besent to the Secretary and Chairman, which, if necessary, should discuss the objections with thedelegate in order to come to an agreement on the wording.

3.a) Consideration of the Report from the Secretary of TC3,document 3/512/INF.

The Secretary, Mr. Svensson, gave a short introduction to his report, document 3/512/INF.

The report was accepted without comments.

4. Report from the Chairman of TC3.

Mr. Bodin wanted to point at four items that had taken place during he past year:

First he wanted to express his appreciation of the use of e-mail and e-tools. It is now very widespreadin the committee. This not only facilitates the communication but it also favours creativity, because ofthe ease in communication.

The start of the Sector Board 3 for Industrial Automation Equipment (SB3), is of importance to TC3. Itgives for the first time a direct opportunity to get input for our work and also to make our work moreknown among the SB3 product committees. We should use this possibility and provide the TC3delegates to the SB3 meetings with all necessary information and also to distribute the resultinginformation within the group.

He deemed the need for co-ordination within TC3 will be of more importance during 1998; it is indeeda mile stone since the results achived during the past years within the SC’s are now the subject forconsideration in order to meet new needs for integration.

Finally, he mentioned the withdrawal of the USA as P-member, and expressed his concern about theshortage of experts further to a lack of interest for a task which is necessary, but yield dividends to

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participants and and non-participants as well. As one step to create interest the pamphlet”Documentation” has been produced (to be further discussed later)

5. Note of the publication efforts of document 3/484/INF Future standardisationneeds in the field of documentation. Consideration of this report in the light ofthe Report from the ISO High-Level Steering Group on CALS, document 3(NewDelhi/Secretariat)9 (equivalent to document SB3/13/INF).

The Secretary mentioned that 3/484/INF is not yet published. The possibility to publish it as a”Technical Trend Document” has been considered, but it is not exactly such a one.

For the time being it is publicly available as a ”Standing document” the TC3 web site.

The ISO High-Level steering Group on CALS (Continuous Acquisition and Life-Cycle Support,“Commerce At Light Speed”) report contains a number of things that are of interest to TC3 and itsstrategy.

Part of this report was on the agenda at the CA meeting (MoU on edi), but there are also other thingsin the report of importance for the standardisation i the information and documentation area.

Mr. Cordelier will check about the future treatment of this report at the CO.

The Chairman recommended to collate this report with the IEC strategy outlined in the Master plan.

Mr. Reuter recommended to read it twice, e.g. about the future UN/EDIFACT requirements. They areentering the area of technical data element types. The EDIFACT scope ought to be limited tobusiness data support. This document will also be further discussed in SB3.

Decision (New Delhi/1/97): Attention on the wider interest of the CALS report should be drawn in theReport to the Committee of Action (RCA).

6. Presentation of and consideration of the result of the Workshop 1997-10-20,Annex A. (Related documents 3/506/INF, 3/507/INF, 3/508/INF.

The Secretary presented the document 3(New Delhi/Secretariat)7, see Annex A, Result of theWorkshop on new Project proposals, 1997-10-20. The further treatment of the results will be handledlater on the agenda.

The Chairman expressed the thanks to SC3B/WG2 and especially its convenor for the preparation ofthe project proposals.

Mr. Jörgensen asked for the report to be annexed to the minutes. This was agreed.

7. Report from the Chairman of SC3A - Graphical symbols for diagrams - andrelevant decisions, Annex B.

The Chairman of SC3A, Mr. Abel, presented the report form SC3A, see Annex B.

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Discussion following the presentation:

Mr. Pettersen said that IEC 60617 is now old, people are not interested any longer. The standardcontains basically symbols for discrete items that are now less used. People are asking for symbolsfor new Items, and he pointed especially at part 13 that is on the right way.

Mr. Jörgensen pointed out that we should not spend our limited resources on Task II. (Technicalchanges to the 1996 edition of IEC 60617.)

Mr. Reuter said that all companies are becoming more decentralised which makes it more difficult toget resources for the work.

With regard to the planned IEC symbols data base he said that the contents should be publiclydownloadable. Otherwise it is of less use.

SC3A should finish what can be finished, the other tasks must be cancelled for lack of participation.

In the planed Task Force we need to invite ISO people to participate.

Mr. Pettersen added that with regard to the content of 617 it is necessary to be more creative. 50 %could be ”kicked out” and nobody would miss them.

There has been an evolution in the way diagrams are made and needed. The type of documents havechanged. The electrical circuits are getting of less interest and more functional documentation isrequired.

Positional statement:

Finish tasks that can be achieved with the present membership and additional support from the SwissNC. Then cancel the other anticipated tasks because of lack of interest. The setting up of a data basefor the maintenance of 617 is more important.

Mr. Reuter pointed out that the setting up of a data base needs capacity. The first implementation ofthe database will only contain the present 617 as it is now. We will then need new procedures andnew capacity to make the changes. The need to comment form the NC’s will still be there.

The database should allow us to work in a more timely manner. We need commitment from the NC’sto work with the data base.

Mr. Viitanen said that we need a model for the work and for whom the data base is intended. We mayalso need experts from outside, perhaps from SB3 product committees?

With regard to item 5 of the report common IEC/ISO standard on graphical symbols:

Mr. Svensson, (in this case acting as Swedish representative) asked for a non-destructive way tosolve the problems with 14617. After all, this work started almost 10 years ago following a commondecision by IEC and ISO at a meeting in Geneva, with the involved committees and the TechnicalDirectors from IEC/CO and ISO/CS present. The work with the harmonised common standard wasstarted because there was a need among users in industry. This need has become even moreoutspoken as the time has gone.

The result of the work on 14617 (part 1-5) so far represent a huge investment, and cannot be justthrown away because the organisations cannot agree. One reason for the problems has beencontradictory and out of phase decisions on the management levels in both organisations, and he

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proposed a meeting with representatives for the involved committees and IEC/CO and ISO/CS tobring the situation in phase.

The Danish and Finnish delegates supported this proposal.

Mr. Cordelier said that we do not know the present decision in ISO/TMB. Mr Jörgensen said thataccording the Danish delegate they had changed their mind about publishing the first 5 parts as TR.

Mr. Abel opposed to the Swedish proposal. There has been common meetings betweenrepresentatives for the committees. We do not know what is going on in the JWG10. Germanyappointed Mr. Seiss as a member but he is missing in the present list. Who is preparing the 2nd DIS?Is the JWG10 involved in reality?

Mr. Ikeda supported the German position and said that we need some way to effectuate our decision.

Decision (New Delhi/2/97): Attention to the unclear situation should be drawn in the RCA. TC3recommends the CA to adhere to the agreement of publishing an ISO Technical Report and not as anISO standard for parts 1 to 5, in which ¾ of the symbols have an “IEC meaning”, and the restemanates from ISO standards. in order to avoid conflicts with IEC 60617, but also to consider theamount of work already invested in these documents.

Decision (New Delhi/3/97): Further to the proposal of SC3A the extension of the term of office ofthe Chairman of SC3A was fully supported.

8. Report from the Chairman of SC3B - Documentation - and relevant decisions,Annex C.

The Chairman of SC3B, Mr. Reuter, presented the report form SC3B, see Annex C.

As a comment to the Workshop he mentioned that the he considered it to be only partiallysuccessful: he expected the two last subjects be taken up by industry consortia.

Mr. Cordelier said to this that there is now a procedure for Publicly Available Specifications (PAS),and that the consortia should be invited to co-operate for the publication.

With reference to item 1.1 Mr. Cordelier asked if ISO had really published a document with identicalcontent as 61360-2. Mr. van Noesel confirmed this, and that it is clearly stated that in this case theIEC document is the standard. (It is ISO 13584-42)

Regarding item 2.4 it was noted that the report form ACOS had been approved by the CA, but thatthis actually does not mean that a final decision has been taken - the report gives a recommendation.

Mr. Cordelier said that he had discussed this item with the technical director and they had agreed thatit should be a standard.

9. Report from the Chairman of SC3C - Graphical symbols for use on equipment -and relevant decisions, Annex D

The Chairman of SC3C, Mr. Nakamura, presented the report form SC3C, see Annex D.

Regarding item 7 of the report , second bullet, Mrs. Schwuchow wanted the task of SC3C to beensured: Add ”also SC3C” in the first sentence. Keep the task, but add validation agency.

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Mr. Brigham supported. He also added that they were very grateful for all extra experts attending themeeting and they would like to see them again.

Regarding item 7 of the report, third bullet, the Chairman asked if it was necessary to mention this inthe RCA, and Mr. Brigham said that it is not necessary. It is a matter of interpretation. Mr. Cordelieragreed.

10. Report from the Chairman of SC3D - Data sets for libraries - and relevantdecisions, Annex E.

The Chairman of SC3D, Dr. Radley, presented the report form SC3D, see Annex E.

Dr. Radley mentioned that this is likely to be the last plenary meeting for Mr. van Noesel as Secretaryof the SC3D.

Mr. Reuter said that from Germany it had been requested that all product committees should providedata element type definitions. We need to take some kind of action in TC3.

Mr. Radley said that SC3D would like to see this as an IEC policy.

The Chairman asked SC3D to prepare something that more exactly describes: first the benfits thatthese product committees can derive and second what is requested from them and suggested tocontact first on an experimental basis the SB3 product committees.

NOTE from the Secretary - With regard to data element types and the involvement of other committees we seem to bediscussing three different topics:

1. The need for product committees to take part in the validation agency. This is dealt with in 75/AC and item 5.1 in thereport from SC3D.

2. The need to introduce data element types in our own standards. This is dealt with in item 22e) below. 11714-2 is anexample.

3. The need to introduce data element types in the standards of the product committees. This is aimed at above and alsodealt with in 22f) below. This has not yet resulted in any document.

Item 2 and 3 are similar but have different target groups.

11. Report from the latest meeting of Sector Board 3 (SB3) and Sector Board Ad HocGroup meetings (SB3AHG).

The Chairman of SC3B, Mr Reuter, had attended the last meeting of SB3 on behalf of TC3 and thesubsequent ad hoc meeting (end September/beginning October) in Geneva.

In SB3/Ad Hoc Group the following product committees are represented:

− TC3 Documentation and graphical symbols

− SC3D Data sets for libraries

− TC17 Switchgear and controlgear

− SC17B Low-voltage switchgear and controlgear

− TC22 Power electronics

− TC44 Safety of machinery – electrotechnical aspects

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− TC45 Nuclear instrumentation

− SC45A Reactor instrumentation

− TC56 Dependability

− TC57 Power system control and associated communications

− TC65 Industrial-process measurement and control

− SC65B Devices

− SC65C Digital communications

− TC66 Safety of measuring, control and laboratory equipment

− (TC93 Design automation – no longer member)

− ISO TC184 Industrial automation systems and integration

− ISO TC184/SC4 Industrial data

− ISO TC184//SC5 Architecture and communications

He reported that the SB3 members at the preceding meeting got the home work to answer thequestion: ”What would I do if I were IEC?” The answers had been presented, collected anddiscussed. They had been separated into three groups

− Procedures

− Common matters

− More detailed requirements

and a Task Force had been set up to define action procedures until the next meeting.

He considered the meeting to be very positive. The relation between ”ordinary” communicationprotocols and the STEP application protocols had been clarified, and people had become aware thatthe STEP protocols were on a layer that used the communication protocols.

The official minutes from the meeting will be put on the server.

Mr. Reuter also noted that there is another Sector Board High Voltage equipment (SB1) and thatanother one on Low Voltage equipment is being considered. The STEP AP212 does not differentiatebetween HV, LV or industrial systems, so we are potentially interesting also for the other SB’s.

The Chairman noted that the work in the SB3 may be of big importance to TC3 and asked the SC3xChairmen and Secretaries to take a deeper interest in the work so that we will be able to make aneffective contribution to the work.

11a) Consideration of the degree of involvement in SB3 activities.

The conclusion was that we will continue to take part in the SB3 work.

12. Updating and consolidation of the organisation of TC3 with Sub-Committees andWorking Groups, document 3/519/INF.

Discussed together with item 13.

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13. Report on and consideration of the availability of data base applications via theWWW at the CO, e.g. for a graphical symbols data base, etc., and relevantdecisions.

It had earlier been discussed at the TC3 workshop and at the SC3A meeting that a Task Force be setup to work on the graphical symbols data base implementation.

The Secretary presented a proposal for a structure and a workflow with reference to a meetingdocument, see Annex F. The proposal was discussed and commented so that the details of it wereunderstood.

The work for the TC3 Task Force is to agree on an information model that can be used for SC3A,SC3C and ISO/TC10 and TC145 symbols.

The deliverables of the group are:

− an information model on which the data base design can be founded;

− at least one screen template allowing input of symbols with associated information; and, beforethe filling of the data base starts,

− instructions for how to enter information (e.g. which information in IEC 60617 shall be put wherein the data base)

Decision (New Delhi/4/97): The structure and times proposed in Annex F for the work wereapproved.

Decision (New Delhi/5/97): TC3 decided to set up a TC3 Task Force for the specification of theinformation requirements for the graphical symbols data bases.

Persons taking part in this TC3 Task Force should have a good knowledge of the informationrequirements from the standards produced within each committee, and also knowledge on how topresent this as an information model.

For the TC3 Task Force the need for manpower is short time/high intensity. It is a special 12 monthsTask force. The following persons were nominated at the meeting:

− &KDLUPDQ� Mr. Abel.

− 'HSXW\�&KDLUPDQ� Mr. Scholz.

− Mr. Scholz will also represent�6&�$�

− Mr. Reuter will represent 6&�% and 6&�%�:*�, Mr Brigham 6&�& and Dr. Radley 6&�'.

− ,62�7&�� will be invited to take part in the Task force

− Ms. Schwuchow will represent ,62�7&��

− Central Office was asked to have the ,7�6WDII at the CO in Geneva represented

Deadline for the 1st meeting is 15 Jan 1998. Deadline for appointment of a member representingISO/TC10 is end of this year. Tentative date will be proposed soon by the Chairman of the Taskforce.

The task of the ”Special Working Groups” is to fill the data bases, of which the one for IEC 60617 willbe the first. Other SWG’s are needed for the publications.

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The maintenance is another thing and will be dealt with as a separate item.

Mr. Abel informed that Germany is very interested in the data base and willing to spend some moneyand resources on this work. This may reduce the time for filling the data base.

14. Consideration of document 02/1095/RCA, Report from Chairman Group A andTechnical Director on procedures of horizontal technical committees, item 2,regarding proposed changes of procedures for the standardisation of graphicalsymbols. Given comments from TC3 given in document TC3/02/1095/RCA.

The Secretary presented the relevant content of document 02/1095/RCA and the comments given tothis by the TC3.

Mr Cordelier informed that the CA had decided in line with our comments.

The Chairman pointed out that this document is a kind of warning. We need to respond quickly torequests from other committees in order to avoid such proposals. The experts of TC3 need also tobuild our standards as if they were intended for laymen, to make them more user friendly and toexpress more clearly the advantages that can be derived from implementation.

It should be strongly emphasised that we need one single symbol standard. In product standardssymbols may be reproduced (for information) with references to the normative standard.

Mr. Reuter said that with regard to document 02/1095/RCA there was now a request to makeprevious versions of the horizontal standards should remain available, if they had been referred to inproduct standards. We should take note of this.

15. Consideration of the Report from IEC/TC3 - ISO/TC184/SC4 JWG9 - Electricalapplications of ISO 10303 - Product data representation and exchange - andrelevant decisions, documents 3/515/INF and 3/511/WG.

This report had already been considered in SC3B and SC3D, so there was no need to comment on itfurther.

16. Consideration of the Report from IEC/TC3 - ISO/TC10 JWG10 - Joint WorkingGroup on harmonisation of diagrams and graphical symbols for diagrams - andrelevant decisions, document 3/518/INF, and 3/513/WG.

The Secretary presented the report from the JWG10, document 3/518/INF. He also informed thatISO/TC10 at its last meeting in London had considered the disbanding of this group but decided tokeep it until 14617-1 to 5 had been finally published.

Mr. Pettersen wondered why do we need this JWG? The Secretary explained that the JWG10 has twodifferent tasks: To identify subjects of common interest in the work programmes of IEC/TC 3 andISO/TC 10, in the area of diagrams and graphical symbols for diagrams, and of other TechnicalCommittees who may need to use and apply diagrams, and: To assist IEC/TC 3 and ISO/TC 10 intheir work on diagrams and graphical symbols for diagrams.

For the first task we have now a liaison officer appointed. For the second task there is presentlynothing new on the program. It was suggested to split the tasks: As the preparatory task in practisehad been limited to graphical symbols the co-ordination matters in this area could be better and morefruitfully assigned to SC3A/WG1.

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Mr. Abel wondered why they are speaking about ”edition 3” of IEC 60617 in the report. We arespeaking about Task II of SC3A/WG1, but it is not clear if this will result in an edition 3.

16a) Discussion on the disbanding of the Working Group JWG10.

Decision (New Delhi/6/97): TC3 proposes to disband JWG10 and invites ISO/TC10 to concur. Co-ordination matters in the area of graphical symbols for diagrams should, on the IEC side, be assignedto SC3A/WG1.

General co-ordination matters is already a task of the liaison officer Mr. Aagaard.

17. Circulation of document 3/504/INF Normative references to non-IEC Standardsin publications from IEC/TC3 with SC’s, and relevant decisions.

The Secretary described the circulated document that lists standards that are referred to in ourpublications. It is available as a standing document on the TC3 server. It was pointed out that theintent is that the committees concerned should inform us when the listed publications are beingrevised so that we on our side can take the necessary steps.

Decision (New Delhi/7/97): Circulate an Administrative circular to the committees concerned withdocument 3/504/INF attached.

18. Circulation of document 3/509/INF Terminology in the area of TC3, and relevantdecisions

The Secretary presented the document 3/509/INF. The document (English version only) is nowavailable as a standing document on the TC3 server The question was raised how we should proceedwith it.

The options are: leave it as a standing document, publish it as a report, let it be the basis for achapter in IEV.

Mr. Selvik said that he had recently used it in his work and considered it to be very useful. It isnecessary that it is kept available, as a standing document or as a technical report

Mr. Pettersen pointed out that if we want to introduce it in IEV it is necessary to set up a WG togetherwith TC1.

Mr. Jörgensen said that as a horizontal committee it is our duty to should guide others on theterminology in this field.

Mr. Ikeda said that this is a great work: he pointed out that in his work on the symbol standards hehad found that a number of special terms are undefined. For symbols we need clearly written text.

This task was noted. This need is a different task in addition to the one we are considering in thisdocument. If we have proper definitions of terms, the number of f these can be added in the symbolstandards. It should be considered in the symbols data base.

A proposal was raised that the Secretary should meet the TC1 Secretary and discuss what theconsequences would be if we would like to introduce it in IEV. Such a chapter would be lesscomprehensive than the present document.

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Mr. Reuter asked what is the added value if we publish it as a report or an IEV chapter. A conclusionfrom the discussion was that if we publish it will be less accessible for our own work: as an INFdocument it can stay on the server, if we publish it we will have to take it away.

Decision (New Delhi/8/97): We will keep the document as a standing document on the server. Thetitle will be modified to ”Terms used in the area of TC3”.

The Secretary should investigate with the TC1 Secretary what the consequences would like to basean IEV chapter on it.

19. Discussion of the Draft Strategic Policy Statement, included in document02/1002/RCA.

The Secretary said that there has at this meeting so far been no input to the SPS from the SCs.

Mr. Fornalski said that it will be updated as a result of the meeting , and Mr. Brigham added that thistype of changes are almost editorial. But how do we deal with policy issues?

The Chairman said that it is desirable that the secretaries for the next meeting in each committeeprepares a draft SPS before the meeting and circulates this to the National Committees so that a thedraft can be discussed during each SC meeting and the SPS finalised at the TC3 meeting based onthese drafts and received comments.

The Secretary added that the decision taken at the CA meeting that the time intervals for revision ofthe standards should be introduced in the SPS is an other reason for circulating a draft before themeeting. The directives are expected to be revised in the beginning of next year.

Decision (New Delhi/9/97): Draft Strategic Policy Statements for the Sub-Committees should beprepared in advance of the next meeting for discussion at the meeting.

20. Review liaisons with other bodies (not already covered):

20. a) Note of the circulation of document 3/503/NF The role of liaison officers, and relevantdecisions. List of liaison officers, Annex G

The Secretary informed that document 3/503/INF had been circulated, and since no comments hadbeen received it had then been implemented by sending fax with the document attached to therelevant committees. Annex G lists the present liaison officers.

20. b) IEC TC16 Terminal markings and other identifications [Liaison officer: Mr. J. Pettersen],document 3/514/INF.

Mr. Pettersen presented his report and said that things had happened after the time the report wasdistributed.

There had been an earlier discussion in SC3B (see 3B(New Delhi/Secretariat)7A) and the decisiontaken in that SC was presented:

Decision (New Delhi/12/97): SC3B strongly opposes to the deletion of the alphanumerical notation(earlier MM), since this is needed for documentation purposes. (Graphical symbols are not computerinterpretable unless they are defined in a character set. ) The Secretary will inform the Secretariatand the National Committees are asked to consider this in their own comments.

TC3 agreed to this decision.

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Mr. Pettersen also informed that things happen also in TC1: ”tension” is proposed to be used insteadof ”voltage”, and asked the National Committees to be aware of it.

The Chairman said that it seems as NWIPs are not always circulated to all NC’s interested.

Mr. Pettersen also proposed that Mr. Selvik, proposed Chairman of TC16, takes over the task asliaison officer.

The Chairman thanked Mr. Pettersen for the report.

Decision (New Delhi/10/97): Mr. Selvik is appointed liaison officer to IEC/TC 16.

20. c) IEC TC44 Safety of machinery - electrotechnical aspects [Liaison officer: Mr. T.Viitanen], document 3B/214/INF.

Mr. Viitanen presented his report. He emphasised that it is necessary that other committees likeTC44 are properly informed about our work. This includes also the work in SC3D.

The Chairman thanked Mr. Viitanen for the report.

20. d) IEC TC52 Printed circuits [Liaison officer: Mr. F. van Noesel], document 3/521/INF.

Mr. van Noesel presented his report and said that there was nothing to add to the written one, butadded that this is the last time he can act as a liaison officer, since the Netherlands has decided toleave the Secretariat for TC52. Therefore he will no longer have the possibility to follow the work asclosely as before.

The question about a successor was therefore raised, but there was no obvious one at the moment.However, our relations to ACET Area4 and ACET, where TC52 is also represented, gives us anopportunity to follow the work and this may be sufficient for the time being.

The Chairman thanked Mr. van Noesel for the report,

Decision (New Delhi/11/97): The question about a liaison officer to TC52 should be reconsidered atthe next meeting.

20. e) IEC TC65 Industrial-process measurement and control [Liaison officer: Mr. F. Reuter],document 3B/231/INF. Discussion about co-ordination with respect to document65B/312/AC Setting up of WG 10: Classification and documentation structure ofmeasuring equipment.

The liaison report from TC65 was noted. It had been earlier discussed in SC3B and was not furtherdiscussed.

Mr. Reuter had asked to be released form the task as liaison officer. This had been discussed at theSC3B meeting, where Mr. Viitanen had offered to take on this task.

Decision (New Delhi/11/97): Mr. Viitanen is appointed liaison officer to IEC/TC 65.

20. f) IEC TC93 Design automation [Liaison officer: Mr. F. Reuter], document 3/516/INF.

The liaison report from TC93 was noted. It had been earlier discussed in SC3B and SC3D and wasnot further discussed.

Mr. Reuter will remain as liaison officer.

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20. g) ISO TC10 Technical drawings, product definition and related documentation [Liaisonofficer: Mr. J. Aagaard], document 3/520/INF.

The Secretary presented the report from Mr. Aagard who is the new liaison officer for this committee.

Decision (New Delhi/13/97): The selection of Mr. Aagaard as liaison officer to ISO/TC10 wasconfirmed.

20. h) ISO TC184/SC4 Industrial automation systems: External representation of productdefinition data [Liaison officer: Mr. F. Reuter], document 3/515/INF.

This liaison report had been earlier dealt with in SC3D and SC3B.

It was noted that the willingness for co-ordination between SC4 and TC93 is poor.

20. j) ISO/IEC JTC1/SC2 Coded character sets [Liaison officer: Mr. F. Reuter], document3B/517/INF.

Mr. Reuter presented the report and concluded that there are no results with regard to controlcharacters. He proposed that the liaison be quit and reported to the CA.

Decision (New Delhi/14/97): The liaison to JTC1/SC2 should be disbanded.

21. Review the Programme of work, document 3/510/PW.

The Secretary noted that the programme of work for TC3 contains formally only 10303-212.

22. Any other business:

22. a) Note of the new TC3 WWW-site on the IEC-server

The Secretary reported about the activities with regard to the TC3 web site at the CO. Presently thereare pages for TC3 and SC3B and for a few WG’s and projects. There will be a migration from theChiba site to the CO. He also stressed that he did not like to start pages on the site if the propermaintenance could not be guaranteed. Therefore the SC, WG and project pages should bemaintained by the secretaries, WG-convenors and project leaders.

On the site also presentation pages for the standards issued by SC3B had been introduced. Thesepages contain lists of contents and figures, together with the scope of each standard. These pagesare searchable and indexed by the search engines on the web. If anybody searches for information inthe resp. areas, they will therefore get information that standards exist.

He also mentioned that the number of visits to the CO site is not yet so high (some hundreds/week).

The Chairman noted the migration from the Chiba to the CO site and expressed his thanks to Mr.Ikeda, who had made our early trials in this area possible.

Mr. Ikeda said that he had been thinking on how the sites should function together. Chiba could be amirror site. Links to the CO should be introduced at the Chiba site.

He also advised that it is possible to notify some key sites about the existence of our CO site andthus make it better known.

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Mr. Brigham, Secretary of SC3C, said that he is willing to start the SC3C page as soon as the workon 60417 is finished.

Mr. Fornalski, Secretary of SC3A, said that he at the moment was not appropriately equipped to dealwith the SC3A web page, but that he might be at the end of the 1997.

Mr. Radley, Chairman of SC3D, said that there are already information on IEC 61360 and the work inSC3D available at the CODUS site. Some of this might be better to transfer to TC3 web site.

22. b) Discussion of the experiences of the use of electronic exchange of documents.

Mr. Radley said that there is little change during the last year. It is sometimes annoying, but it works.

Mr. Ikeda pointed at the incompatibility with regard to fonts. Fonts may vary with the environment andproposed that some investigation should be done in this area on how to best manage the problems.

Mr. Brigham proposed to embedd the fonts in the document.

Mr. Svensson said that the use of the Acrobat pdf format is working well but it is still not perfect. Thecharacter spacing is sometimes not correct. This is especially evident for characters other than thoseused in the English language, although the phenomena occurs also with English text.

Mr. Reuter said that at a recent transfer of a pdf file to the CO some characters had disappeared.

Mr. Cordelier added that with the documents from the Secretary it works nice.

Mr. Bodin asked if anybody had still problems with encoding/decoding.

Mr. Reuter said that if you use mail systems that use the MIME standard it usually works nice.

22. c) Consideration of marketing efforts: pamphlet on documentation, presentation pages onthe web.

The Chairman referred to the pamphlet produced by the CO and available as pre-print at the meeting.It is now up to the National Committees to request it and to distribute it to targeted persons andcompanies to get more experts and more participation.

The title ”Documentation” was questioned, since it does not correspond to the full title of thecommittee. That is true, but the full titles of the committees are inside the pamphlet. On the cover weneed something that can attract readers, so it was left as it is.

The illustrations on the cover was also questioned. The intent had been to cover all 4 SCs with anillustration in an own quadrant, but the result was not so.

Mr. Ikeda proposed to use the figure in the SPS as the only figure on the cover. It has to be simplifiedthough, and the Secretary said that he should make an effort to do this.

The presentation pages for standards and been mentioned earlier.

Mr. Viitanen pointed at the need for a better project marketing. We were at the earlier Helsinkimeeting discussing what to do. A number of things have been implemented, e.g. project pages, butmore is necessary.

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Regarding other means of advertising here was a proposal to advertise the web servers in the IECbulletin.

22. d) Handling of bilingual documents in electronic form by the Central Office.

Mr. Cordelier informed that it is sufficient if the CO receives the final bilingual documents as twoseparate files. There is no need to try to make them synoptically equal. The page numbering will betaken care of by the CO.

22. e) Consideration of data element type definitions in IEC TC3 (SC3A, SC3B) standards;needed actions.

Mr. Reuter explained that the proposal is that if data element types are defined in a standard theyshould be separately documented in such a way that they can be forwarded to the referencecollection. This will have consequences for future publications. It has been done in 11714-2/61714-2which can serve as an example.

He recommended to include data elements in the symbols data base to be developed by the TC3Task force.

22. f) Consideration of data element type definitions in product committees standards;needed actions, document 3(New Delhi/Germany)8.

This document had already been discussed in SC3D. Mr. Radley said that they had discussed thisdocument and needed guidance on how to proceed in the best possible way. The intention was tomake a draft proposal for a new AC to the product committees and ask CO for help.

22. g) Beaver of the year

Mr. Reuter asked for the floor and announced that it was time to appoint this years ”beaver”, andasked Mr. Selvik to introduce him.

Mr. Selvik then introduced Mr. Jan Pettersen as the receiver of this years award. Mr. Pettersen hasbeen working for the Norwegian Electrotechnical Committee NEK since 1965, and for TC3 with SC’sall the time since then.

As one of the most significant characteristics of Mr. Pettersen he pointed at his constant demand forsimplicity and clarity: The service engineer should be able to read this document under the worstpossible conditions.

He then gave Mr. Petterson the diploma.

Mr. Pettersen, in thanking for the award, said that his concern for ”the little man in the workshop” wasthat it had always been his duty to take care of all complaints when people called NEK aboutdocumentation standards.

He added that this meeting will probably be his last, he will retire now, but will think of all nice peoplehe has met in the work.

23. Date of next meeting.

The Chairman asked the present Chairmen, Secretaries and Convenors about the need for apreparatory meeting next year. The response was positive and a preparatory meeting will thereforebe arranged, possibly in conjunction with the second or third meeting of the TC3 Task Force.

3/522/RM

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The next series of plenary meetings will be held in approx. 12 months time from now, taking intoaccount the need not to overlap with the ISO/TC184/SC4 meeting and the IEC General Meeting.

The Danish National Committee had taken initiative for an invitation to Denmark.

NOTE - After the meeting it has been confirmed that it is possible to hold the meetings in Denmark in the beginning ofNovember 1998.

24. Close of the meeting.

The Chairman expressed his sincere appreciation to all delegates who had done so much work. IECexpects, and we should live up to the expectations. He thanked all the Secretaries.

He then thanked the Indian National Committee (in Hindi).

Mr. Murthy thanked and wished a continued pleasant stay and a safe journey home.

The Chairman then closed the meting.

_______________________

3/522/RM

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1. Opening, general introduction

The Chairman of TC3 opened the workshop and welcomed the participants (27 persons). He pointedout that the proposals that had been prepared were considered as stage 0 work that had been takencare of by SC3B/WG2.

The Chairman also pointed out that in this work shop the participants do not represent their NationalCommittees, but are there as experts as in a WG.

The participants were then asked to introduce themselves and tell which SC interest thatrepresented. (For the list of participants, see document 3(New Delhi/Secretariat)11.)

2. Presentation and discussion of Project description: Fully electronic handling ofgraphical symbols with attached information, document 3/506/INF

The convenor of SC3B/WG, Mr. Reuter, introduced the subject.

WG2 has done some thinking about how we should modernise our ways of working. We have now anumber of new tools for the future, but we are not equipped to respond quickly enough in the time ofInternet.

IEC 60617 (developed by SC3A) and IEC 60417 (developed by SC3C) are natural databaseapplications.

Today it is also preferable to make such applications available over the www on the Internet. If itshould be available publicly or have restricted access is another matter.

IEC/CO has responded positively to a question whether or not they were willing to set up theinfrastructure necessary for such applications: They were willing to provide the infrastructure for suchdata bases but not to key in data.

Mr. Cordelier: A recommendation to install such a data base in the Central Office has been prepared.It will be dealt with by the CA at its meeting 97-10-21. This recommendation suggests that themaintenance agency is to be provided by a NC.

The project description was then presented with the help of a series of slides (available as meetingdocument, will be put on the TC3 web server).

Discussions:

Mr. Brigham said that the work with the internal SC3C data base for IEC 60417 has shown that thevalidation is a problem. The procedures will need to be made appropriate.

Mr. Viitanen: What about simulation data? Mr Reuter responded that we need to be clear on what wehave in the data base. We are basically dealing with symbols that are related to products (or otherconcepts). Simulation models are not related to the symbols, but to the products. Simulation mattersalso raises a number of other matters, such as language, which we are not equipped to deal with.

Mr. Bodin: How would such a data base fit into what users already may have in their CAD systems?

3/522/RM

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Mr. Brückner said that in CAD systems data bases the graphical symbol is only one part. Symbolsexactly as they appear in IEC 60617 is only a minor part of that. The other symbols are combined oradapted to suit the actual need.

Mr. Radley: Option C (users of CAx systems) need to be integrated in the original planning, even ifonly want to go for option B right now. In the work with IEC 61360 we have found that CGM is hardlyused . Therefore alternative graphical formats need to be provided.

Mr. Brigham: The migration of the SC3C data base into a new structure is no immediate need.parallel development is preferable.

Mr. Pettersen: Is IEC 60617 good enough for this type of application? Mr Reuter said that IEC 60617contains a number of known errors. Also data bases can contain errors, but the putting of thepublication into a more clearly structured data base may take away some.

Summary with regard to the proposals in 3/506/INF:

It was the meaning of the work shop that:

• We need a data base applications to manage the symbols of IEC 60617.

• We want this application made in such a way that it can accommodate symbols also preparedby ISO (e.g. ISO 14617). A normal user (standardises are not ”normal”) should not need toworry about which organisation that has issued a graphical symbol.

• SC3C has already a data base for internal use. Therefore, for IEC 60417 (and correspondingISO standards) a migration should be planned.

• Regarding the question for whom the data bases are, the answer was to go for option B, i.e.for users of symbols in DTP (Desk Top Publishing) systems, however, with the intent to go foroption C, i.e. for users of symbols in CAx systems later on. This need to be considered whendefining the information model for the data base.

• We want a web application so that it can be easily accessible for anyone, without anyspecialised software. This is necessary already for the internal use within the committee.Commercial and other considerations prohibit today a public use of a such a data base, butthat may change in the future, and then the databases should be prepared for it.

• For the maintenance and validation we need to develop new procedures, that support the newtechnique.

• We propose that a task force is set up for the checking of the applicability of the proposedstructure. This should contain participants from SC3A, SC3B, SC3C, SC3D and relevantISO/TC’s (ISO/TC10, TC145).

These considerations are to be further discussed in the SC’s.

Decision on the possible setting up of a task force will be taken at the TC3 meeting.

3/522/RM

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The convenor presented the document and related it to the model of AP212.

Discussion:

Mr. Nicholsson wondered what was meant: We are forced to provide information for the maintenancein the form of instructions and manuals already.

Mr. Brückner agreed and said that what we are traditionally doing is to provide information coveringmore than one purpose, because we want to as little documentation as possible. With moderntechnique it is possible to provide better purpose related documentation without too much effort.

Mr Pettersen added that the size of he plant/product need to be taken into account.

Mr van Noesel agreed and noted the life cycle consideration is essential: the life time for a powerplant compared to radio set is quite different. Additionally already thousands of data element typesare available.

Summary: No real conclusion. The subject will be considered again in SC3B

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The convenor presented the document and related it to the model of AP212. AP212 is done in such away that attributes can be attached to any entity. These need to be taken from other sources. IEC61360-4 is such a source, but for plant design we need quite number of other data element types.

IEC 61360 provide the general rules.

Mr. Radley said that this is a new area of activity for SC3D that was discussed already last year.Since then we have found that IEC 61360 is not applicable in all cases.

Mr. Selvik added that what he has found to be needed in an ESPRIT project (ELECTRONET) arecollections of data element collections per generic object type.

The discussion was ended due to lack of time.

It will be taken up again in the SC3B meeting.

_____________________

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Annex B

Report from the Chairman of SC3A

1. Situation in the Working Groups

3A/WG 1 Revision IEC 617-2 through 617-11 (Task II)

Acting Convenor: noneLast meeting: 5/6.12.1996 in ZürichNext meeting: openSituation: urgent need for a new convenor and new members.

3A/WG 2 Graphical symbols for information processing

Convenor: Mr. G.K.F van der Woud, NetherlandsLast meeting: 16/18.04.1996 in MunichNext meeting: planed on week 12, 1997 in the Hague but postponed.New date open.Situation: see report of the convenor 3A/476/INF

2. Publications being printed

The following standards are being published:

IEC 617-12, 3rd edition (1997): Binary logic elements (based on 3A/407/FDIS and 3A/431/FDIS)

IEC 1734 TR3 (1997): Application of IEC 617-12 and -13 (based on 3A/376/CDV)

Camera-ready copies for these publications were prepared by the WG 2 together with correctionsrequested by the IEC Editing Department and sent in August 1997 to the Central Office for printing.

3. Programme of SC 3A

All projects under development are included in the Programme of work of the SC 3A being amendedduring the meeting. The old projects being actually on PWI stage were excluded from the programme.

4. Electronic handling of graphical symbols

Because of common interest for this item the representatives form SC 3D were invited. Thepresentation of the preliminary concept of the data base was made by the German delegate, Mr. R.Scholz. It was explained that it contains only the graphical symbols, indexes and descriptions as theyare standardised in IEC 617. In the actual form the data base is not able to create graphical symbols.There are no possibilities to change the graphical symbols which are in separate files connecting tothe data base (by OLE). There is also not possible to use the symbols directly in CAD-systems.

The discussion shows that there is a real need for such a data base.

This is a powerful tool for maintenance and future editions of IEC 617 making easier the task ofworking groups.

A special thanks was addressed to Mr. Topp from the German N.C. who has prepared this data base.It is also hoped that in a future it will be supported by the German N.C. taking into account that weneed such a data base as soon as possible.

It was recommended to set up a special Task Force for further development of the data base.

3/522/RM

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5. Common ISO/IEC standard on graphical symbols

Since the voting results in ISO on the first DIS was negative it was decided to prepare the secondDIS for vote.

There is no transparency what is prepared in the JWG on this subject. It seems that ISO is willing toprepare Standards instead of a Technical Report.

This should be complained by TC 3 to the Committee of Action.

A discussion of the Chairman and the Secretary with the Technical Director of the C.O.,

Mr. Brotons-Dias, has took place prior to the meeting of SC 3A in New Delhi. A proposal was that ifISO will not follow the decision made by C.A. and TMB to publish ISO 14617-1 to -5 as TechnicalReport, all symbols originated from IEC 617 shall be excluded from a ISO-Standard. The SC 3A canonly agree with Part 1 as an ISO-Standard containing a general concept for a future development of acommon IEC-ISO Standard.

Resolution:

In order to speed up the work on Task II of WG 1 and to make IEC 617 available on a data base assoon as possible, the parallel work with ISO shall be stopped. The TC 3 should recommend to theC.A. to take all measures to avoid a publication of the ISO-Standard on Parts 1 to 5 in order to avoida conflicting Standard with IEC 617.

6. P-Members

As the US National Committee has recently changed its status in SC 3A from P-Member to O-Member, the total number of P-Members becomes 22. It makes a situation in the working groupseven more difficult.

7. Term of office of the Chairman of SC 3A

The delegates have supported the extension of the term of office of the Chairman of SC 3A for thenext period. The TC 3 shall decide on this subject.

__________________________

3/522/RM

- 26 -

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Since the last meeting in Helsinki in 1996 and including the New Delhi meeting, the following resultshave been reached.

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• ISO/IEC 11714-1 Ed. 1: Design of graphical symbols for use in the technical documentation ofproducts, Part 1: Basic rules

• lEC 61082-6 Ed. 1: Preparation of documents used in electrotechnology, Part 6: Index

• IEC 61355 Ed. 1: Classification and designation of documents for plants, systems andequipment.

• lEC 61666 Ed. 1: Identification of terminals within a system

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• lEC 61346-4 TR3 Ed. 1: Industrial systems, installations and equipment and industrialproducts - Structuring principles and reference designation, Part 4: Discussion of concepts.

The following documents were planned to be published at this time but have been delayed, primarilybecause of problems with the numbering and responsibility between ISO and IEC.

• 3B/220/FDIS: ISO/IEC 11714-2 Ed. 1: Design of graphical symbols for use in the technicaldocumentation of products, Part 2: Specification for symbols including symbols for a referencelibrary.

• 3B/177/FDIS: ISO/IEC 11714-3 Ed. 1: Design of graphical symbols for use in the technicaldocumentation of products, Part 3: Classification of connect nodes, networks and theirencoding.

The latter FDIS is already approved. Report on the voting, document 3B/229/RVD.

Due to opposition from CENELEC concerning the two prefixes in the above standards, lEC isproposing a renumbering of part 2 and 3 as IEC 61714. ISO is not willed to transfer the responsibilityof ISO/lEC 11714-1 to lEC in order to get a single consistent series. If there is no commonagreement between both organisations, SC3B proposes that lEC should publish also ISO/lEC 11714-1 as IEC 61714-1 with identical content, but with a note stating that ISO is responsible for themaintenance of part 1. This approach has earlier been applied for lEC 61360-2, for which ISOpublishes an identical document in the ISO 13584-series.

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Document 3B/208/NP Meta data associated with documents has been accepted and will be assignedto WG8. This project is relevant for the management of documents in any electronic documentmanagement (EDM) or product data management (PDM) system.

It is noted that the numbers of NWlP’s has gone down.

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According to the decision taken in Helsinki, the WG entrusted with general co-ordination matters withrespect to IT applications and co-ordination within TC 3. In this context the WG has provided allproject descriptions 3/506.. .507/lNF being discussed in the workshop.

The result of the workshop is considered partially successful with respect to the decision for theimplementation of a data base for graphical symbols in the WWW at the CO server in Geneva. At theCA meeting the proposal was supported.

Although the other issues presented, are far more urgent to industry no response has been reachedin the committee. Therefore it is assumed that industry consortia are set up specifying PAS (publiclyavailable specification), made available in the Internet.

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It was decided at the Helsinki meeting to set up this WG as a maintenance team. No action hastaken place due to actual definitions at the CA level concerning this issue.

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ACOS has commented about two things:

• The intended publication of the document as a standard and not as a "guide"

• It is written to comprise also consumer products, but for this there is already ISO/lEC Guide 37.

SC3B prefers to see this document as an international standard. There is presently no standardintended for end users available in this area.

SC3B prefers NOT to limit it the scope to industrial products/capital goods as compared toconsumer/household goods, since there are a lot of products with dual usage. The border is in manycases drawn by the users for each single product and not possible to define generally. The reviseddraft is written in such a way that there are not any direct duplications compared to ISO/lEC Guide37.

The CDV will be available at the end of January 1998.

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The new draft for IEC 62027 will be circulated as CDV.

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It has been decided that a 2nd CD of lEC 61346-2 Structuring principles and reference designations -Part 2: Letter codes will be published together with the application guideline. - 2CD: 1st Q. 98

Part 3: Application guidelines has started. -1CD: 1st Q. 98

Due to the withdrawal of IEC 750 and of lEC 204-2 there is actual no classification standardavailable. Both standards have been widely used in industry. It was decided to add in the comingdocument information about the compatibility.

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The WG has prepared the first CDC concerning the revision of lEC 848 including the proposedamendments produced by the previous WG1.

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Unless the discussion at the TC3 meeting results different, no changes have been planned.

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The following items have been dealt being of interest also to other Sub-committees:

• Documents dealing with revisions of publications to which reference is made in IEC SC3Bstandards should be distributed for comments within SC3B. This action item left from theMakuhari meeting in 1994 will result in a list be set up identifying those items of interest toSC3B. CO has been asked to provide a list.

• ISO documents which are referred to by IEC/SC3B standards will be listed up, and attentionwill be given to those committees with the request to notify SC3B with respect to possibleupdates, revisions and related matters. This issue is still open.

• There is still no final solution provided from IEC CO and ISO CS with respect to the numberingof the 11714 series. SC3B insists that the complete series will be published under a singlenumber.

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The following items have been discussed during the SC3B meeting being of interest to othercommittees:

• It was decided in Helsinki to prepare for each new project a project description. This one pagedocument is planned as marketing instrument to attract interest in industry and participation.The document is based on a structure co-ordinated with the marketing department of the IECCO. It is planned to put such documents also on the server. Now it has been decided thateach Convenor/Project leader shall be in charge of such description and keep the projectrelated pages updated, when having access to the lEC server.

For this purpose it was noted that WG convenors/project leaders actually are not allowed toenter the IEC document data base according to the present rules. The Secretary was asked toinclude in the Report to the CA a request to the CA (or GPC) to reconsider the possibility givealso convenors/project leaders (listed in the data base) access to the document data base.

• It was decided in Helsinki to identify the possibilities of marketing SC3B results on regional ornational level incorporating the possibilities of IEC, have not been discussed due to lack oftime. A separate task force should be entrusted with such matter. Another alternative would beto do so next time in the workshop. In this context attention is drawn to the first draft leafletfrom IEC CO, which needs however some corrections before publication.

• It was realised that the delegates now have the possibility to access the web-server personallyor via their NO, one country (ON) said that they had not this possibility.

• It was noted that some users of e-mail have difficulties to open attachments in word processorformats. The reason for this problem is that word processor files are binary files that aredamaged if they are not encoded. MIME is a present Internet standard for handling of coding.The solution is to use a MIME compliant mail client that does this coding automatically or touse a separate software for it.

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• Since the Central Office server is now available the Chiba server could now be turned into aserver supporting the Japanese work. Mr. Svensson and Mr. Ikeda will discuss how to do themigration.

• CO has been requested to install email exploder facilities also for the IEC server and will beincluded in the report to the CA.

• A first proposal for a modified procedure have been discussed in SC3B concerning thepreparation of a second language version. It is proposed that the national committee ( e.g.UTE) is fully in charge of the preparation of the second independent language version underthe project management of the Secretariat of that committee. CO is then together with therelated national committee in charge of the second language version without interference ofthe editor or project leader.

__________________

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Main results since last meeting in Helsinki:

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Supplement "P" to IEC 60417 containing four new graphical symbols has been published.

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The results of four FDIS’s were considered containing 48 symbols, 43 in the medical area and fivegeneral symbols. Of these, 47 symbols were approved for publication. They will be incorporated intothe first version of the revised IEC 60417. Symbol 5667 Pr "Baby" was not approved becauseseveral countries considered the graphical representation to be unsuitable. SC62A/WG5 will beasked to prepare a new CDV for this symbol taking the comments on the FDIS into account.

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• 3C/351/CDV: Graphical symbols for special timer functions

• 3C/352/CDV: Symbol 5775 Pr "Disconnection from supply source" and modification ofapplication texts for symbols 5007, 5008, 5010 and 5011

• 3C/353/CDV: Graphical symbols for use on data processing equipment

• The above documents containing 17 symbols were approved for circulation as FDIS’s.

• 3C/354/CD: Graphical symbols "Suitable for use in the tropics" and "Suitable for use in thesubtropics"

In view of the fact that the comments raised important questions which could not be answered by thedelegates present, the German National Committee will be asked to prepare a new CD inconsultation with TC92, taking the comments into account.

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• 3C/355/NP: Graphical symbols for tumble dryers

When voting on this new work item, only two national committees had nominated experts. However,six other national committees had supported circulation of the document as a CD or CDV. Furtherexperts were identified at the SC3C meeting which should enable a positive result of voting to beissued.

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• 3C/362/FDIS: Graphical symbols for use on equipment - Part 1: Overview and application

• 3C/363/FDIS: Graphical symbols for use on equipment - Part 2: Symbol originals

Both documents were approved for publication. However, further editorial comments had beeninvited and a large number of such comments were received.

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Clear limits to the extent of the further changes to the texts and graphical representations wereagreed and, as a result, publication should be possible early next year. WG1 will meet in Decemberto prepare the additional material necessary to include the 47 symbols approved for publication atthis meeting.

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• 3C/356/CD: General principles for graphical symbols for use on equipment -Part 1: Creation of graphical symbols

• 3C/357/CD: General principles for graphical symbols for use on equipment -Part 2: Form and use of arrows

The comments received on the above documents were reviewed and JWG11 is requested to dealwith the comments with the intention of producing a CDV. Subject to the confirmation of support byhis national committee, Prof. Ikeda has agreed to become the new Convenor of the joint workinggroup. The new Secretary is David Fishman of BSI who has replaced Mr Bergner as Secretary ofTC145.

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• Project IEC 60417 f4 Ed 1: Six symbols for welding equipment (previous document3C/294/DIS)

The project has been cancelled at the request of ISO/TC44/SC4 - IEC/TC26 JWG2 "Terms andsymbols". This follows contact with the Chairman of JWG2, as agreed at the SC3C meeting inHelsinki.

• 3/506/INF: Project proposal: Electronic handling of graphical symbols

The discussion in the TC3 workshop on 20th October 1997 focussed on the database requirementsfor SC3A and SC3B. The approach already taken by SC3C is broadly compatible with the databasemodel proposed. The SC3C database is already being used to produce documents for publicationand should be linked to the IEC web site as soon as possible.

It would seem appropriate for the development of the SC3C database to proceed in parallel toinitiatives in SC3A/SC3B but with close co-ordination in order to ensure compatibility with regard tofuture requirements.

• Introduction of new symbols into IEC 60417

At present, the only procedure for introducing new graphical symbols is that described in the ISO/IECDirectives, Part 2, Annex F. In the case of symbols which are part an approved project belonging toanother committee, it would be more efficient if these symbols could be considered for introductioninto IEC 60417 without the creation of a separate new work item. Attempts are being made tointerpret Annex F in a more flexible way to make this possible. In the future it might be appropriatefor SC3C to act as a validation agency for the maintenance of IEC 60417.

__________________

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Annex E

Report from the Chairman of SC3D

1. Membership SC3D [according to the IEC Directory of October 1997]:

P-members: total 19: AT, BE, CN, CZ, DK, FI, DE, HU, IT, JP, NL, PT, RO, RU, ES, SE,US, GB, YU

O-members: total 13: AU, BG, FR, IN, KR, MY, NZ, NO, SG, SK, CH, TR, UA.

No changes in membership since last meeting.

2. Name and scope of the Subcommittee

The name and scope have been adapted according to the Helsinki decision.

new name: “DATA SETS FOR LIBRARIES “

new scope: “To prepare for the electrotechnical and related fields, regardingmethods and rules associated with the handling of information in computersensible form, referring to:

- definition of data element types and data sets for use in information modelsand technical documentation, and for exchange of technical information.

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No changes in membership since the Helsinki meeting. [P-members: BE, DE, JP, NL, UK, US (bycorrespondence only) ].

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scope: unchanged

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scope: unchanged

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Two meetings were held since the Helsinki meeting, Sheffield April 1997 and Muenchen July 1997.Informal notes of these meetings by the convenor are available on demand.

WG1 and WG2 met together.

A list has been produced containing the topics which are to be discussed for implementation in thenext version of IEC 61360-1. The complexity of the topics however and the limited available manpower are the reasons that only discussions drafts are available and not yet well definedamendments.

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Following the decision to broaden the scope of SC3D to the whole range of electrotechnology it hasbeen decided to propose a corresponding change to IEC 61360 by omitting reference to componentsin the title. This and the resultant implications of omitting explicit references to components within thetext of the document and any impact on the EXPRESS model in part 2 will be examined during therevision process.

A list of topics for revision and inclusion in issue 2 of 61360-1 has been produced and will bediscussed at a special meeting of WG2 in January 1998.

Based on a new working draft, presented by the UK, a restart was made in the field of theclassification of packages. Contributions from Germany and the Netherlands were also incorporated.

The work around shapes and packages of components has resulted in the issue of a new Committeedraft, document 3D/56/CD (successor of document 3D(secretariat)13 “Classification and coding ofshapes of electric components for placement on printed wiring boards ”. A close relationship withmembers of IEC SC47B has been established regarding this work. The closing date for comments is01-12-1997.

The committee was disappointed to find that the issued document was badly formatted and, as aresult, was some thirty pages longer than the draft agreed by the WG and sent to the Central Office.

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Members of both SC's met each other on a regular base during the ISO/TC184/SC4 (STEP) meetingsin March 1997 Chester(UK) and June 1997 San Diego(USA). The October meeting has conflictingdates with this meeting.

During these meetings the last editorial adaptations in the common EXPRESS information modelwere made. The issue of the FDIS of IEC 1360-2 has been slipped due to some misunderstandingsbetween Central Office and the secretary. The monolingual version (English) will be circulated now asdocument 3D/53/FDIS in week 9742.

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No documents were issued since the last SC3D meeting. The working groups works towards theissuing of a new CD late 1998.

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The FDIS version will be will be circulated as document 3D/53/FDIS in week 9742. New versions willfollow the work of 61360-1 after discussions with ISO/TC184/SC4/WG2 members.

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No new documents were issued since the last SC3D meeting.

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The voting on the FDIS document 3D/48/FDIS was positive, see document 3D/51/RVD.

(15 P-members in favour 100%, 0 P-members against, 1 P-member and 1 O-member abstained and1 O-members negative).

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The International Standard has been issued as document 61360-4 in April 1997.

�� '��&'��´&ODVVLILFDWLRQ�DQG�FRGLQJ�RI�VKDSHV�RI�HOHFWULF�FRPSRQHQWV�IRUplacement on printed wiring boards”.

It was agreed that, at the next draft, the title will amend to omit the restrictive reference to printedwiring boards.

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Disappointment has been expressed at the poor response to administrative circular 75/AC. It seemsthat many technical committees did not understand what they were being asked, so it was agreedthat a new letter be sent with the following changes:

a. A stronger argument for TC to become involved;

b. One or more examples of what is expected;

c. The document to be signed by the IEC general secretary to carry more weight than thesignature of the Chairman if SC3D

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It was reported that the voting in the IEC Council had resulted in 12 to 2 majority for CODUS Ltd. tobe appointed as the maintenance agency for the 61360 dictionary.

It was stated that CODUS now proposes to establish a world wide web service by April 1998 with aprototype preview service by January 1998. In parallel, a formal agreement will be made with the IECand promotion and publicity efforts started.

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Two issues were discussed within the meeting:

a. The extension of value types to include, for example, 2D and 3D co-ordinates, tables, sets andfunctions. It was concluded that a value type attribute is needed and some new value typesmust be added.

b. The definition of the figure and formula attribute should be changed to permit references toillustrations and formulae held in separate files. It was agreed that the standard should notprescribe the file type and format but that the reference should contain sufficient information toidentify the appropriate file viewer or associated application.

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It was reported that voting on the question of principle concerning a proposed merger of the activitiesof SC3D and TC93 resulted in 7 to 4 majority against. No further action will, therefore, be taken.

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6.1 Established contacts were continued. In close co-operation with ISO/TC184/SC4/WG2 ’PartLibraries’ the FDIS of the common EXPRESS information model was finished.

6.2 As the efforts given to have the SC3D work (DET definitions) accepted as one of the basis forthe creation of a dictionary within the SI2 ECIX (former CFI - Pinnacles) project have been

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successful, the IEC EXPRESS information model has been converted towards an SGMLinformation model.

6.3 SC3D aims for new official liaisons of type D to be established with SI2-ECIX and the Europeanproject CIREP.

_______________________

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TC3 Task Force

Informationmodel

MMI-spec

Instructions IEC/COdatabase

ISO/CS

IEC 60417

IEC 60617SC3A SWG?

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SC3A, 3B, 3C, 3D +3B/WG2, inv. ISO/TC10,TC145+ IEC/CO

3B/WG2model(80-90?)

The primary task of the TC3 Task force is the production of the Information model. That one must becorrect. A first specification for an MMI interface is needed, but this can be modified and other addedlater. These two deliverables should be available within 3 month.

The instructions for the SJWG’s are intended to ensure a consistent methodology when filling thedatabases. The instructions are needed first when the filling work starts (6 months?).

A considerable number of symbols should be available in the database within a years time.

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IEC TC16 Mr. Eirik Selvik (Norway)

IEC TC44 Mr. Tapio Viitanen (Finland)

IEC TC52 Vacant

IEC TC65 Mr. Tapio Viitanen (Finland)

IEC TC93 Mr Fritz Reuter (Germany)

ISO TC10 Mr. Joergen Aagard (Denmark)

ISO TC184/SC4 Mr. Fritz Reuter (Germany)

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/Secretariat)1 List of delegates at the meeting of TC3 in New Delhi, 1997-10-24

/Secretariat)2A List of meeting documents at the meeting of TC3 in New Delhi, 1997-10-24

/SC3A)3 Report from SC3A

/SC3B)4 Report from SC3B

/SC3C)5 Report from SC3C

/SC3D)6 Report from SC3D

/Secretariat)7 Result of the Workshop on new Project proposals, 1997-10-20

/Reuter)8 German proposals with regard to the creation and management of data elementtypes

/Secretariat)9 ISO Technical Management Board (TMB) High-Level Steering Group on CALS(HLSG-CALS): Recommendations to TMB and Final report

/Secretariat)10 List of liaison officers

/Secretariat)11 List of participants in the TC3 work shop in New Delhi 1997-10-20

/Secretariat)12 Proposed working procedure for the TC3 Task Force

/Secretariat)13 Day report from the meeting held in New Delhi 1997-10-24

http://www.iec.ch/tc3/txt/3nd1.pdf

http://www.iec.ch/tc3/txt/3nd2a.pdf












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Decision (New Delhi/1/97): Attention on the wider interest of the CALS report should be drawn in theReport to the Committee of Action (RCA).

Decision (New Delhi/2/97): Attention to the unclear situation should be drawn in the RCA. TC3recommends the CA to adhere to the agreement of publishing an ISO Technical Report and not as anISO standard for parts 1 to 5, in which ¾ of the symbols have an “IEC meaning”, and the restemanates from ISO standards. in order to avoid conflicts with IEC 60617, but also to consider theamount of work already invested in these documents.

Decision (New Delhi/3/97): Further to the proposal of SC3A the extension of the term of office ofthe Chairman of SC3A was fully supported.

Decision (New Delhi/4/97): The structure and times proposed in Annex F for the work wereapproved.

Decision (New Delhi/5/97): TC3 decided to set up a TC3 Task Force for the specification of theinformation requirements for the graphical symbols data bases.

Decision (New Delhi/6/97): TC3 proposes to disband JWG10 and invites ISO/TC10 to concur. Co-ordination matters in the area of graphical symbols for diagrams should, on the IEC side, be assignedto SC3A/WG1.

Decision (New Delhi/7/97): Circulate an Administrative circular to the committees concerned withdocument 3/504/INF attached.

Decision (New Delhi/8/97): We will keep the document as a standing document on the server. Thetitle will be modified to ”Terms used in the area of TC3”.

Decision (New Delhi/9/97): Draft Strategic Policy Statements for the Sub-Committees should beprepared in advance of the next meeting for discussion at the meeting.

Decision (New Delhi/10/97): Mr. Selvik is appointed liaison officer to IEC/TC 16.

Decision (New Delhi/11/97): The question about a liaison officer for IEC/TC52 should bereconsidered at the next meeting.

Decision (New Delhi/12/97): Mr. Viitanen is appointed liaison officer to IEC/TC 65.

Decision (New Delhi/13/97): The selection of Mr. Aagaard as liaison officer to ISO/TC10 wasconfirmed.

Decision (New Delhi/13/97): The liaison to JTC1/SC2 should be disbanded.

_____________________________

Technical Committee No. 3 Documentation and graphical...

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