Russell, Richard | Testimony transcript 1!20!13

Transcript of the Testimony of Richard Russell

Date: November 20, 2013Volume: I

Case: In Re: Joplin Critical Investigation

Printed On: December 1, 2013

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc.Phone: 417-358-4078

Fax: 417-451-1114Email:[email protected]

Internet:

Richard Russell In Re: Joplin Critical Investigation

417-358-4078

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc.

Page 1

IN RE: JOPLIN CRITICAL INVESTIGATION

SWORN STATEMENT OF

RICHARD RUSSELL

Taken on Wednesday, November 20, 2013, from 11:25 a.m. to

12:11 p.m., at the law offices of Juddson H. McPherson,

LLC, 626 S. Byers, in the City of Joplin, County of Jasper,

State of Missouri, before

SHARON K. ROGERS, C.C.R.650,

a Certified Court Reporter and a Notary Public within and

for the County of Jasper, and State of Missouri.

Richard Russell

In Re: Joplin Critical Investigation

417-358-4078


Page 2

APPEARANCES

MR. THOMAS E. LORAINE

Loraine & Associates, LLC

4075 Osage Beach Pkwy., Suite 300

Osage Beach, MO 65065

[email protected]


417-358-4078


Page 3

S T I P U L A T I O N

IT IS HEREBY STIPULATED AND AGREED that this Sworn

Statement may be taken by steno-mask type recording by

SHARON K. ROGERS, a Certified Court Reporter, and

afterwards reduced into typewriting.

It is further stipulated that the signature of the

witness is hereby waived, and that said Sworn Statement of

said witness shall be of the same force and effect as

though said witness had read and signed Sworn Statement.


417-358-4078


Page 4

I N D E X

Page/Line

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LORAINE . . . 5-4

E X H I B I T S

(sic) - typed as spoken

(ph.) - phonetic


417-358-4078


Page 5

1 RICHARD RUSSELL

2 Having been first duly sworn and examined,

3 testified as follows:

4 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LORAINE:

5 Q. Mr. Russell, I'm scheduled to talk to people

6 on three major topics. One would be anything

7 that you have about Mr. Scearce and his

8 alleged link to gambling, and the second one

9 would be Mr. Woolston and his alleged

10 improprieties in regard to sale and purchase

11 of real estate while being on a board, and a

12 third might be any problems that you see or

13 are associated with the City management of

14 just anything that's going on in the City.

15 Those are the areas that I am looking at, and

16 tell me what, if anything, you have to talk

17 about.

18 A. Well, she mentioned yesterday you had a

19 question about the Elks Lodge. I'm not sure

20 I know what that --

21 Q. I did have a question. Are you an Elk?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Okay. The information that I have received

24 is that the Elks Lodge had a piece of

25 property, a wooded piece of property that was


417-358-4078


Page 6

1 excess and once the wood was ripped down, the

2 forest was ripped down there was no purpose

3 and so they sold it to Wallace-Bajjali.

4 A. Yeah, 6 acres.

5 Q. Yes, and I think the sale price was $3.00 a

6 square foot or something like that.

7 A. I'm not sure about square foot. I think it

8 was $170.00 an acre. That's the figure I

9 heard.

10 Q. And you're an Elk?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. What, if anything, do you have to say about

13 any of it?

14 A. Well, it would be personal nature if I have

15 anything to say about it with the firm that I

16 work for. I work for a title company and I

17 had spoken to the outgoing Board of Directors

18 of the Elks and they had just held an

19 election so after I spoke with him I spoke to

20 the new incoming Board of Directors of the

21 Elks. And my purpose of that is being in a

22 title company I wanted to do the closing on

23 the property and they told me that they had

24 no problem with that. Then I called Gary

25 Box, who is with the master developer. I've


417-358-4078


Page 7

1 known Gary for a number of years. He's kind

2 of the go to guy for Wallace-Bajjali locally.

3 And he said, well, the Elks didn't have any

4 problem in using it for closing and we

5 wouldn't have a problem either. Well, to

6 make a long story short they didn't use us,

7 and as a matter of fact we're not even in the

8 rotation.

9 Q. For Wallace-Bajjali?

10 A. For Wallace-Bajjali. And I had met with

11 Wallace-Bajjali well before they came to

12 town, David Wallace. As a matter of fact

13 they called a meeting, and I don't know that

14 this has got a lot to do with what you're

15 here for, but anyway they were impressed with

16 my company and they assured us they would use

17 us. I knew that we wouldn't get a hundred

18 percent of everything, but I thought we'd at

19 least get some of it. Anyway that didn't

20 happen. And that issue has come up to this

21 353 Committee that Mr. Duncan is on about why

22 hasn't it been rotated.

23 Q. What title company are they using?

24 A. Well, they used Lincoln which also is part of

25 Waco which is owned by Walmart which that


417-358-4078


Page 8

1 title company is used by Arvest Bank where

2 some of the funds are coming from, so that's

3 a little bit I think personally.

4 Q. Who is that?

5 A. Arvest Bank. That's owned by Walmart

6 Corporation.

7 Q. And they've got some money coming out?

8 A. Yes, I think.

9 Q. They're selecting who they want to use is

10 what you're telling me?

11 A. Well, yes.

12 Q. Who is letting them do that? Is that the

13 City Manager?

14 A. Well, he's part of it, I'm sure, but the 353

15 Committee was appointed by the City Council.

16 It's made up of a group of citizens, but with

17 the master developer what apparently has

18 happened is this money passes through to the

19 353 Committee to purchase property and then

20 once that property has been purchased and

21 somebody else buys that that money is

22 returned to the 353 Committee and then in

23 turn send it back over to Arvest Bank to make

24 them whole. They've got about 8 million

25 dollars I think in the kitty. Now if the 353


417-358-4078


Page 9

1 Committee is purchasing property they should

2 be able to purchase the property and assign

3 what title company to go to.

4 Q. That's right.

5 A. But they don't do that. Wallace-Bajjali is

6 doing it. And here is what's happened on two

7 cases that I know of. There was a dentist

8 that had property out there by the Elks,

9 which is part of that 6 acres, going to be

10 attached to that 6 acres, and he sold his

11 demolished building and acreage to

12 Wallace-Bajjali and their comment to him was,

13 and he's a friend of mine, I talked to him

14 after the fact, and he said they told him

15 meet us at title company XYZ tomorrow morning

16 at 10:00 o'clock. They didn't say who do you

17 want to use.

18 Q. Who was that buyer, the dentist?

19 A. That was Dr. Dan Haney. He was the seller.

20 Q. Well, actually it's traditional in Missouri

21 for the seller to get a commitment from

22 whomever he wants and the buyer then usually

23 takes the same company but doesn't have to.

24 A. But they didn't give him the option. And of

25 course he didn't know. I mean I understand


417-358-4078


Page 10

1 that.

2 Q. They never do.

3 A. No, they don't know. So they just said that

4 we'll meet you at title company XYZ.

5 Q. What title company did they say?

6 A. It was either First American Title Company or

7 it was Abbey Title Company.

8 Q. Or Abbey?

9 A. Uh-huh.

10 Q. How many title companies do you have in the

11 community?

12 A. We have five.

13 Q. You'd think they would be rotating, wouldn't

14 you?

15 A. I would think so, yes.

16 Q. City business.

17 A. It is, oh, yeah.

18 Q. You're in the city?

19 A. Sure.

20 Q. You're not getting any business?

21 A. No.

22 Q. What's the name of your company?

23 A. Great American Title Company. Been in

24 business 38 years and we have 13 offices from

25 Branson to Springfield to Joplin.


417-358-4078


Page 11

1 Q. Are you the President of Great American?

2 A. No, I'm not.

3 Q. So is there an underwriter? Is that the

4 underwriter?

5 A. No, we have an owner. It's privately owned.

6 Q. Who is the owner?

7 A. Her name is Peggy Barton.

8 Q. What is your position with them?

9 A. I'm a Business Coordinator. Actually this is

10 another job I took on. I retired from the

11 electric company. I worked for the electric

12 company for 34 years. There was also another

13 piece of property out there by this ground

14 that we were talking about and I think it's

15 Faron Electric, it's a contractor. No, it's

16 Fagan Electric, Fagan, F-A-G-A-N, and he sold

17 property and they, too, said to him we'll

18 meet you at title company XYZ tomorrow

19 morning at 10:00 o'clock.

20 Q. Do you know which one they referred them to?

21 A. I don't know who they referred that one to.

22 But I had seen deeds that's been recorded and

23 it's First American Title, Abbey Title, and

24 then the Title Place, a title company called

25 the Title Place. Then Arvest, they've been


417-358-4078


Page 12

1 used on some cases, which I think is a

2 conflict.

3 Q. Coming out of the bank.

4 A. Uh-huh.

5 Q. I want to ask you this question. Is Mr.

6 Duncan, I think we talked with him once, we

7 talked with someone from that 353 --

8 A. He's just been elected to the position.

9 Q. Does he know you're in here talking about

10 this?

11 A. No, not to my knowledge. Not to my

12 knowledge.

13 Q. Okay. What would the City Manager have to

14 gain by directing this to certain companies,

15 or what would Wallace-Bajjali have to gain?

16 A. Well, I don't know what Wallace-Bajjali - I

17 think it's politics.

18 Q. A kick back?

19 A. No, I wouldn't say that. I mean I don't know

20 that. I think it's to go (inaudible)

21 actually. See, when I met with David Wallace

22 we met at the Chamber and some of the

23 competition over there are Chamber members,

24 also, but they've been Chamber members in

25 Joplin for a long time, but so was I when I


417-358-4078


Page 13

1 was at the electric company. But I suspect

2 what has happened is that that's why they're

3 taking the business to the other title

4 companies. And then one of the people making

5 the calls on this with Wallace-Bajjali used

6 to be a banker, actually he's been with

7 multiple banks, but he's the one that's been

8 calling some of the shots. He never has used

9 our company.

10 Q. What's his name?

11 A. Bruce Anderson is his name.

12 Q. And he works for Wallace-Bajjali?

13 A. Uh-huh.

14 Q. Does he work under Gary?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Really it appears to me that, and correct me

17 if I'm wrong, but is normal procedure for you

18 to do this? I mean recognized title

19 companies in the area ought to be rotated,

20 shouldn't it? I mean it's City business,

21 isn't it?

22 A. It's City business. You do it if you're

23 doing it on street projects, you do it if

24 you're doing it on the sewer, roads.

25 Q. There's no bid, no title company that's got


417-358-4078


Page 14

1 to bid or anything like that?

2 A. No, but I think that there should be. When

3 you get a million dollars and above our

4 company, we can't be beat. As a matter of

5 fact if you take title insurance, and I'm

6 sure you're familiar with it --

7 Q. I am. I used to own a title company.

8 A. -- the average of that title insurance is

9 somewhere around here locally $4.00 a

10 thousand. We can get it down to 83 cents.

11 And we've done all the Branson Landing pretty

12 much, most everything in Branson. We've got

13 the market share with almost every - we have

14 a contract on business with MoDot, with City

15 of Springfield, City of Branson, but, yes, I

16 believe that's the correct statement.

17 Q. I would like you to help me. Have you got a

18 phone number?

19 A. Yes, I'm 529-5725. I've even spoke to Brian

20 about it.

21 Q. 5725, okay.

22 A. 529-5725.

23 Q. Is that 417?

24 A. Yes, sir.

25 Q. Is that a cell number or something?


417-358-4078


Page 15

1 A. Yes, it is.

2 Q. I presume Brian has expressed - what has he

3 said, that he believes it should rotate,

4 also?

5 A. I mentioned this to Brian, but I never really

6 got a reply. Because I think that could open

7 up another question about - because the City

8 also has major projects that require title

9 companies. Now I have used another - I mean

10 the City has used me from the Engineering

11 Department. We've worked with some local

12 engineers on right-of-way title searches,

13 that sort of thing, so I can't say I never

14 have gotten anything. But, for example, we

15 built three new fire stations. We were never

16 asked to bid on that, we were never - and

17 they were aware that we're in business.

18 Q. So you believe either it out to rotate or

19 ought to bids?

20 A. I think bid probably.

21 Q. That would be cheapest for the City.

22 A. Oh, yes. Yeah, they bought out 26 acres out

23 with that 6 acres that he referred to and we

24 could have saved them thousands of dollars,

25 you know, no question in my mind.


417-358-4078


Page 16

1 Q. Well, ultimately the City pays for this.

2 A. That's exactly right.

3 Q. Plus a commission to Wallace-Bajjali, I

4 guess?

5 A. Oh, yeah, I think he's up to half a million

6 dollars on all his projects so far.

7 Q. So in any case an example would be that the

8 normal cost of title insurance in your

9 community would be something like $4.00 a

10 thousand, and what you're saying is you could

11 have saved the City as much as $3.20 per

12 thousand at some point on some of this stuff?

13 A. Oh, yeah, on the big stuff.

14 Q. That in and of itself is significant dollars,

15 isn't it?

16 A. Oh, yes, it certainly is.

17 Q. Do you know if they're paying full price

18 where they're going?

19 A. I can't say. I have reason to believe they

20 are, but I don't know that for sure.

21 Q. I just wonder if somebody is receiving some

22 kind of gratuity for the way this is being

23 directed.

24 A. I think the 353 Committee from what I

25 understood, there have been some purchases


417-358-4078


Page 17

1 made at the point that they were operating in

2 the red. But I'm not on the Board, but

3 they've made some bad calls.

4 Q. This certainly would be one of them.

5 A. Uh-huh.

6 Q. Any time you can save $3.20 per thousand by

7 merely bidding and allowing anybody to bid.

8 A. Well, now, keeping in mind if it's a million

9 dollar project, nobody can beat us on bids on

10 a million dollars, so it wouldn't be 83 cents

11 on a million, but if it were I don't know

12 what the figure is, 6, 7, 8 million --

13 Q. Yes, I understand. There's a sliding scale.

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. I appreciate you coming in here. Do you know

16 anything more about Mr. Woolston's

17 involvement with this real estate?

18 A. Well, let me say just this, and this may be

19 hearsay. There was a piece of property about

20 the 1700 block on Murphy Boulevard and that

21 gentleman used to be a CEO of an engineering

22 firm, a longstanding engineering firm in

23 town. The name is Vernon Lawson. He has a

24 daughter by the name of Dana White and Dana

25 has been approached on behalf of her dad. He


417-358-4078


Page 18

1 dad is 88 years old. She has not told me

2 this, this has come to me from a third party,

3 but I know the family very well and they

4 seemingly have been pressured to sell their

5 property to Mr. Woolston as part of some

6 development that I guess Wallace-Bajjali

7 wants to promote in a strip mall. Now Mr.

8 Woolston left Pro 100 real estate firm and he

9 has started his own company, but he is

10 working with a fellow by the name of Charlie

11 Kuehn, I think that's K-U-E-H-N, something

12 like that, and he has also partnered up with

13 this Wallace-Bajjali. So the understanding

14 may be that Mike can purchase this property

15 and then this is turned over to

16 Wallace-Bajjali or Charlie Kuehn and then

17 that can be sold back as a strip mall at

18 commercial rate. What Mr. Woolston may or

19 may not get out of that I don't know, but him

20 being on the City Council would seem to me he

21 has all the information on anything coming

22 down the pike, all the developments that's

23 going on, and he's had to excuse himself on a

24 number of occasions because of being

25 involved. It just does kind of - it just


417-358-4078


Page 19

1 doesn't look good. And I know Mike, I served

2 with him on the Council for awhile, but I had

3 a hotdog stand in the Civil Center at one

4 time and when I got on City Council I had to

5 give my hotdogs up because it was a conflict

6 so this almost looks similar to that, or more

7 so actually.

8 Q. How long were you on the board?

9 A. On the Council?

10 Q. Yes.

11 A. 12 years. I'm right now on the commission

12 that's looking at the Charter, we're

13 reviewing some of the Charter stuff.

14 Q. Have you thought any about freeing up the

15 Police Chief from being underneath the City

16 Manager or anything like that?

17 A. We have talked about it. We talked about it

18 last meeting. There's a state law

19 apparently, but it was not intended to -

20 according to the Chief, and he worked on the

21 new law, but I guess it got tweaked at the

22 legislature some way. So it didn't come out

23 as he had intended and so Senator Richard

24 indicated he's going to go back up to Jeff

25 City and see if he can't get that thing


417-358-4078


Page 20

1 straightened out. So the idea is that right

2 now the law would indicate that he would come

3 underneath City Council, but the idea is why

4 would you come under nine people when you can

5 be under one person.

6 Q. Of course it gives that one person an awful

7 lot of control.

8 A. Well, and this is an individual we've got at

9 City Hall that likes that control.

10 Q. That would be Mr. Rohr?

11 A. Yes, exactly.

12 Q. Can you tell me anything about Mr. Rohr, his

13 policies or procedures or practices that you

14 can recall that are questionable?

15 A. I was on the committee that hired him, I was

16 also on the committee that hired the Chief of

17 Police. We got some negatives from the City

18 of Piqua, Iowa where he came from, but the

19 Council voted to hire him at the time, so

20 naturally being new we gave him the benefit

21 of the doubt. We got into a couple of pieces

22 of hot water with some action that was taken

23 when he had been here only about six months,

24 but we backed him up. One of them had to do

25 with a child getting spit on by a police


417-358-4078


Page 21

1 officer, a police officer's kid or something,

2 and he didn't pass that along, that

3 information along to the City Council. We

4 read about it in the paper and we took a lot

5 of flack on it. And two things like that

6 came up. Then we found out months going into

7 his first year he never had a department head

8 meeting and that surprised us and we talked

9 to him about that. We said, you know, you

10 have to let your department heads know what

11 your thoughts are, they need to know where

12 you're coming from so they can be on the same

13 page with you. Obviously when you mention

14 that to him you assume that he goes out and

15 that's going to be part of his deal then, and

16 he didn't do that. We didn't find that out

17 until almost time for evaluation again so we

18 questioned Mark again, said you have to have

19 department head meetings, and he didn't. His

20 secretary - and I guess this is all

21 confidential?

22 Q. Yes, sir.

23 A. His secretary is a princess. She's been with

24 the City probably thirty years. He hadn't

25 been in his office more than two or three


417-358-4078


Page 22

1 months and he had her crying in tears.

2 Q. What was her name?

3 A. Vicki Coots.

4 Q. You know for sure she was crying?

5 A. Yes. Then the City Clerk, Barbara Hogelin,

6 she talked to me when I was there. She's

7 scared to death of the guy. And he goes

8 around the office area up there and slams the

9 door shut so hard it almost takes it off the

10 hinges. We stopped him with some of his

11 plans down 1st and Main. It's a building

12 that's deteriorating. Rebar is gone, almost

13 totally gone. And there's been three

14 Councils told him to forget that idea, but

15 when they get a new Council he brings it back

16 up and it's like, you know, I don't care what

17 you all say, this is what I want to do, and

18 that's kind of one of those things. And I

19 don't have anything against the man

20 personally, I'm just saying I've known

21 probably the last five or six Managers in

22 town and have worked under some good ones,

23 some real good ones that communicated with

24 the Council. He never gave the Council when

25 I was on it the option that we should do this


417-358-4078


Page 23

1 and this is the reason why, or here is the

2 pitfalls if we do that, this would be the

3 fallout and we need to discuss this. It's

4 like a bull in a china closet. And really

5 that's what part of the problem at City Hall

6 is right now and why you're even here. This

7 isn't an attack at Mr. Scearce. I mean I

8 don't know anything about any of the rest of

9 it, but that's all generated by basically a

10 5/4 Council and it's been years since I've

11 ever seen anything like that. But these

12 fellows have tried to bring some of these

13 things to light and they called him on it and

14 he turned the thing around, came out as

15 though he's looking like the good guy and Mr.

16 Scearce and some of the others are made out

17 to look like the bad guys, but they

18 understand what's taken on in the past with

19 history and what's being done today.

20 Q. Do you know if the City Manager's method -

21 have you heard any complaints like from the

22 Engineering Department or anything like that?

23 A. Oh, yeah.

24 Q. The way he treats them?

25 A. Yes, again I was told, again I hope this is


417-358-4078


Page 24

1 private --

2 Q. It is confidential, sir.

3 A. Because I was told by, this would be by a

4 third party, that when he came to town he was

5 after the individual that was the Director of

6 the Engineering Department.

7 Q. Who was that?

8 A. That would have been Harold McCoy. Well,

9 Harold retired after 42 years. He trained a

10 guy by the name of David Hertzberg and about

11 a month ago they concocted some deal and they

12 demoted David over at City Hall. I don't

13 know exactly what his role is, but as a

14 result of that the morale of that Engineering

15 Department went downhill. And I think they

16 have four engineers and three of them left,

17 and the other if he could get another job he

18 would leave so he's decimated the whole

19 Engineering Department over there. And what

20 he's trying to do now is to hire a

21 non-engineer to take that position and that's

22 one of the things that this commission I'm on

23 has been recommended by the City Manager, and

24 I don't think that's going anywhere with this

25 commission.


417-358-4078


Page 25

1 Q. It seems to me he's trying to get all the

2 power.

3 A. He is. That is what it boils down to.

4 Q. Why can't the board get rid of him?

5 A. Well, they tried to about three months ago.

6 They went in knowing that they had 5 votes

7 and they --

8 Q. How many do they need to get rid of him?

9 A. 5 votes. And they thought they had 6. And

10 this was all decided so they go into the

11 meeting and when they voted there was 4 voted

12 to terminate his contract, the Mayor who was

13 the fifth one, she changed her mind. And

14 then the sixth one, he would have voted to

15 terminate the contract, but he wanted a favor

16 done by one of the other 4 and if they would

17 do that favor for him he would vote no. So

18 what he did he abstained so really you have

19 --

20 Q. Who was that?

21 A. That was Morris Glaze. And so what you had,

22 you had the Mayor actually abstained, Morris

23 Glaze abstained, and then you had the 4 to

24 terminate him so you really had 6. That left

25 3 that voted to keep him and so that night


417-358-4078


Page 26

1 the Mayor changed her mind. So she called

2 Mr. Scearce up and wanted to meet with him

3 and go into Mr. Rohr's office the next day

4 and tell him that they wanted his

5 resignation. Well, he came out with, well,

6 you've never told me what you want me to do

7 and I need to have it in writing, and of

8 course I mean he had been a City Manager for

9 years and he didn't know what he was supposed

10 to be doing we shouldn't have hired him to

11 begin with, but he had been told by previous

12 Council what some of the goals we'd like to

13 see done. Now he has done an admirable job

14 of the tornado. I mean I give the man his

15 credit there. A lot of those dollars come in

16 here and Donald Douglas was in charge, but --

17 Q. Well, is it true the land holding company is

18 in the red, you said?

19 A. That's what one of the members told me.

20 Q. If they're in the red where is the money to

21 come from the City for that if some of these

22 programs are sun setting? Aren't they, some

23 of these special programs?

24 A. They will.

25 Q. In taxes?


417-358-4078


Page 27

1 A. And a good deal of these properties once the

2 master developer leaves and if they're not

3 profitable and the revenue doesn't come in

4 the City is going to stuck with a lot of

5 overhead.

6 Q. Can you tell me how that vote went down? Who

7 was in favor of keeping the City Manager?

8 A. That would have been Gary Shaw. Gary is a

9 minister and he has been ministering to Mr.

10 Rohr.

11 Q. He shouldn't even be voting. He's probably

12 got a conflict of interest.

13 A. The other one is Mike Woolston. Mike was the

14 Mayor when the tornado hit. Mike is a funny

15 fellow. If he doesn't get his way he pouts

16 and I've seen him sit as long as a year and

17 not contribute anything in work sessions or

18 contribute to the Council at all, and then a

19 year later he gets over it and then it's

20 business as usual. Then the third one on

21 that would be Mike Seibert.

22 Q. What's his connection with the Manager?

23 A. I don't know. I think he just thinks that if

24 staff says this is a good idea or the Manager

25 says it's a good idea then it's a good idea.


417-358-4078


Page 28

1 I don't think he does his homework. That's

2 my personal view. But I've known him since

3 he was a kid.

4 Q. So your opinion basically is that the present

5 problems of the Council is as a result of the

6 management style of the City Manager?

7 A. Yeah, I think there's some vindictiveness

8 there. I think he doesn't only want to just

9 go after the jugular vein on Mr. Scearce, but

10 he wants to grind him up like mincemeat, and

11 I believe that it's his makeup. And I have

12 no idea of any of the gambling issues other

13 than to say I understand that happened in the

14 1970's as far as leasing the building out. I

15 don't quite understand what that's got to do

16 with 2013, but I guess you will find that

17 out.

18 Q. Well, he's been damaged pretty bad in the

19 press.

20 A. Oh, in this press, this Globe here, let me

21 tell you, if they could character assassinate

22 - I mean they had an editor here at one time,

23 good companies like the electric company I

24 worked for, they do a lot of good in the

25 neighborhood, they do a lot of city clubs and


417-358-4078


Page 29

1 kids and welfare and all this sort of thing.

2 Yeah, they go after you. That's right, he

3 has been damaged. There's no question about

4 it. Of course that's what people are reading

5 in the paper. Then we have a little column

6 where people write in and it's usually the

7 same people.

8 Q. Who is this lady, Carol Stark?

9 A. Carol Stark, actually used to be a reporter

10 and then when the other editor left, he was a

11 real hatchet guy. He told me one day, he

12 said, I don't think you like me very much. I

13 said, well, that would be a correct

14 statement. He said, well, he says, if I do

15 something wrong you can buy me a bus ticket

16 out of town. I said I'll give you an airline

17 ticket today. But I'm sure there's a

18 committee over there. The Globe used to have

19 four or five people that came in and made

20 these decisions and she makes the calls on

21 it.

22 Q. What sort of background, do you know?

23 A. Not really, no.

24 Q. Did she go to college or anything?

25 A. Oh, I'm sure she did, but I wouldn't bet on


417-358-4078


Page 30

1 it but I wouldn't bet against it. Surely she

2 did, I mean.

3 Q. She supposedly has some inside information on

4 Scearce and I don't know what it is.

5 A. So did the City Manager. That was another

6 thing. He comes out and says, well, if I let

7 everybody know what I know I could really

8 damage his ability to run for City Council

9 next time or be Mayor. Well, that's an

10 employee talking to his boss, the way I

11 understand it. I mean he's got his roles

12 reversed.

13 Q. Yes. Well, anything else that you can

14 enlighten me on?

15 A. Not really. The City is a good city. And

16 it's unfortunate as you said it's gotten in

17 the press, it's unfortunate that this issue

18 is even handled, and it's coming from one

19 place up that way.

20 Q. City Manager?

21 A. Oh, yeah, there's no doubt in my mind at all.

22 Q. Who owns the Globe?

23 A. It's an outfit out of --

24 Q. Not a local newspaper?

25 A. No, it used to be. I've lived here my entire


417-358-4078


Page 31

1 life. It used to be operated by local

2 people. You'd have to go back in the

3 archives. There was a lot of activity that

4 was happening in Joplin that was promoting

5 good will and industrial development and

6 businesses, but it's gone from that, now

7 let's see if we can nail the good businesses

8 and the good people.

9 Q. Out of town conglomerate or something owns

10 it?

11 A. Yeah, it is.

12 Q. How do they select the editors over there?

13 A. I don't know. I have no idea.

14 Q. I appreciate you coming in. I think you've

15 been very informative. I can't say that

16 anything you told me is new. I mean I'm

17 hearing these things.

18 A. Well, it's --

19 Q. I mean the stuff about saving the City money

20 on title insurance, I mean that ought to be

21 the first order of business, you'd think. I

22 mean why waste money? If they're financially

23 strapped with these businesses and these

24 projects you would think they would be money

25 aware.


417-358-4078


Page 32

1 A. Even if it didn't have anything to do with

2 the master developer you would think.

3 Q. Yeah.

4 A. I mean having sat on there and approved

5 contracts and bids all the years that I was

6 on there, but it's politics. I know what it

7 is. It's the politics of the town, but that

8 doesn't make it right when you're talking

9 about dollars, tax dollars. And for this

10 master developer I think the jury is still

11 out on that. I mean we certainly need to be

12 rebuilt. There's been a lot of good ideas,

13 there's been some not good ideas, but they

14 haven't turned one spade of dirt and it's

15 been almost two years now. But he's getting

16 his commission and they're out buying this

17 property. But supposed to have a medical

18 school go down on 4th and Main. That's where

19 our library is. Wanted to tear the library

20 down and put this medical center in. That

21 decision was supposed to have been made last

22 April. It's not going to happen. If it does

23 happen it will go out to the college. But

24 they've already committed to take that

25 library and move it out east of town and put


417-358-4078


Page 33

1 a movie theater out there. I was talking to

2 a friend of mine in Kansas City who has a

3 relative that is over all the AMC theaters in

4 the Kansas City area, and when he heard that

5 they were going to build a second movie

6 theater in Joplin he thought they can't

7 sustain that. Well, we've got a 14 theater

8 facility right now in town and with NetFlix

9 and your satellite TV and all that first run

10 shows rarely get full. If they do it's the

11 first night's showing. Any other movie

12 there's anywhere from 1 to 7 people in there.

13 It's not going to sustain itself. The City

14 is going to be holding the bag on that. Plus

15 I forget, I may be exaggerating here, I think

16 what they've done the people wouldn't sell a

17 tract of land, they leased it, I think they

18 leased it for 99 years for thousands of

19 dollars a month, and down the road after

20 everybody is dead and gone then they can go

21 ahead and buy it at the market rate for that

22 day. That doesn't sound like a very good

23 deal to me.

24 Q. Who said that?

25 A. Master developer.


417-358-4078


Page 34

1 Q. That would be with the City Manager's

2 knowledge?

3 A. Oh, yes. And I'm sure there's been

4 conversations what he would like to see and

5 do and so forth.

6 Q. What do you know about the City Manager's use

7 of the City Attorney?

8 A. There's no love lost there between either one

9 of them. Some of it is again the City Manager

10 wanting to bulldoze through and do some

11 things and Brian is saying you can't do that,

12 that's illegal. And because of that he

13 doesn't get his way. But if he uses him in

14 any other way I don't think Brian would let

15 him use him in any other way.

16 Q. I've been told there's some very limited use

17 of the City Attorney with the Wallace-Bajjali

18 matters.

19 A. Oh, yes, that's what I understand.

20 Q. That's your understanding?

21 A. That's my understanding.

22 Q. Who do you hear that from?

23 A. I'm hearing that from some of the other

24 Council people.

25 Q. Do old Council members pretty much tutor new


417-358-4078


Page 35

1 Council members historically in the

2 community?

3 A. Sometimes if they have a question about

4 history they might call. This commission I'm

5 on, it's a 12 member commission, and 10 of

6 the 12 members are former Mayors and there's

7 about 75 years worth of knowledge and history

8 there.

9 Q. Right. What committee is that?

10 A. Well, it's just called the Commission to

11 study the charter. And that came from Mr.

12 Glaze. There's 9 bullet points they want

13 studied, and when I say they it's what he

14 wants studied. 7 of the 9 are his.

15 Q. Mr. Glaze?

16 A. Mr. Glaze.

17 Q. And he's pro City Manager, as I understand?

18 A. Well, he's the one that abstained, and he has

19 said that he would vote no if one of these

20 other guys over here would do what he wants

21 on a project or something. That hasn't got

22 anything to do with it. If he feels like the

23 City Manager is not doing his job then, you

24 know, why would he vote.

25 Q. Is he up?


417-358-4078


Page 36

1 A. Yes, and he's not going to run again.

2 Q. Who is running on that ticket?

3 A. I haven't heard who is going to run in that

4 zone. He is zone council. But I think every

5 one of his ideas are going to go down in

6 flames. He wants to put the City Clerk

7 underneath of the City Manager and we're just

8 adamant about that, that's not going to

9 happen. So the other 2 bullet points like

10 the Chief of Police issue that you spoke of,

11 and then the other one is the City Manager,

12 he wants to put - I asked him the other day

13 did he want somebody with a confectionary

14 degree to run the Engineering Department, but

15 he thinks that anybody could run it, it's

16 just a matter of managing it.

17 Q. He doesn't seem to understand the use of

18 professionals very well, lawyer nor engineer.

19 A. No, he's got - supposedly there was a

20 software developer that came to town and the

21 City has a computer system over there and

22 this guy wanted to do a demonstration with

23 the software package and he and the Finance

24 Director was looking at that and somehow or

25 another they came up with this notion that


417-358-4078


Page 37

1 there's $150,000.00 missing in the

2 Engineering Department. And that wasn't

3 dollars missing, that was some under billings

4 or billings hadn't been paid. My view is why

5 didn't that come out of the Finance

6 Department, and if it's true that the buck

7 stops here, but it went back 14 years and so

8 14 years ago we had the other Director of

9 Engineering who had been with the City for 42

10 years. And maybe it was an oversight. But

11 now I've heard within the last two weeks that

12 isn't $150,000.00, actually it's less than

13 that. Well, again the damage has been done

14 to Mr. Hertzberg. He's been demoted. The

15 other engineer has quit. And I've seen two

16 letters, and in talking about the Globe, the

17 two letters from the employees that the Globe

18 has in their possession that talks about the

19 managering style of the City Manager and what

20 a fine engineer Mr. Hertzberg was. None of

21 that has ever been printed.

22 Q. Where are those letters?

23 A. I think that's in the City Council members'

24 hands.

25 Q. Who?


417-358-4078


Page 38

1 A. Well, probably Mr. Golden.

2 Q. Would you ask Mr. Golden, could you do that

3 for me?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. I'd like to have copies of those letters.

6 A. Sure.

7 Q. Because that deals with the City Manager's

8 involvement with these people, doesn't it?

9 A. Oh, yeah, yeah.

10 Q. Could you ask him?

11 A. I'll ask him.

12 Q. And maybe you could deliver me a copy?

13 A. Yes, be glad to.

14 Q. You can put it in a sealed envelope and

15 deliver it to Mr. Head.

16 A. Okay, be glad to.

17 Q. Because I'd like to take a look at that,

18 okay?

19 A. Yeah, there's two or three letters that I've

20 seen.

21 Q. If you could I'd sure appreciate seeing

22 those.

23 A. Yeah, I'll do that.

24 Q. All right. Sir, thank you for coming in and

25 talking with me. I appreciate that.


417-358-4078


Page 39

1 A. Thanks for coming down. And when is the next

2 jazz concerts going on?

3 Q. The bluegrass?

4 A. I come up every year for that.

5 Q. That's fun.

6 A. When I was on the Council I used to go once a

7 month up to Jeff City and I always managed to

8 do that.

9

10 (SWORN STATEMENT CONCLUDED)

11

12

13


417-358-4078


Page 40

REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE

STATE OF MISSOURI

ss.

COUNTY OF JASPER

I, SHARON K. ROGERS, Certified Court Reporter in the

State of Missouri, do certify that pursuant to the

foregoing Stipulation the witness came before me on the

20th day of November, 2013, was duly sworn by me, and was

examined. That examination was then taken by me by

steno-mask recording and afterwards transcribed; said Sworn

Statement is subscribed by the witness as hereinbefore set

out on the day in that behalf aforesaid and is herewith

returned.

I further certify that I am not counsel, attorney, or

relative of either party, or clerk, or stenographer of

either party or of the attorney of either party, or

otherwise interested in the event of this suit.

_________________________

SHARON K. ROGERS, CCR-650

Russell, Richard | Testimony transcript 1!20!13

Documents

Transcript of Russell, Richard | Testimony transcript 1!20!13