Randles, Mitchell D. | Testimony transcript 11!15!13

Transcript of the Testimony of Mitchell D. Randles

Date: November 15, 2013Volume: I

Case: In Re: Joplin Critical Investigation

Printed On: November 30, 2013

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc.Phone: 417-358-4078

Fax: 417-451-1114Email:[email protected]

Internet:

Mitchell D. Randles In Re: Joplin Critical Investigation

417-358-4078

Holliday Reporting Service, Inc.

Page 1

IN RE: JOPLIN CRITICAL INVESTIGATION

SWORN STATEMENT OF

MITCHELL D. RANDLES

Taken on Friday, November 15, 2013, from 10:17 a.m. to 10:41

a.m., at the law offices of Juddson H. McPherson, LLC, 626

S. Byers, in the City of Joplin, County of Jasper, State of

Missouri, before

SHARON K. ROGERS, C.C.R.650,

a Certified Court Reporter and a Notary Public within and

for the County of Jasper, and State of Missouri.


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APPEARANCES

MR. THOMAS E. LORAINE

Loraine & Associates, LLC

4075 Osage Beach Pkwy., Suite 300

Osage Beach, MO 65065

[email protected]


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S T I P U L A T I O N

IT IS HEREBY STIPULATED AND AGREED that this Sworn

Statement may be taken by steno-mask type recording by

SHARON K. ROGERS, a Certified Court Reporter, and

afterwards reduced into typewriting.

It is further stipulated that the signature of the

witness is hereby waived, and that said Sworn Statement of

said witness shall be of the same force and effect as

though said witness had read and signed Sworn Statement.


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I N D E X

Page/Line

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LORAINE . . . 5-4

E X H I B I T S

Exhibit #A. . . . . . . . 5-13

Advice of Rights

Note: Exhibits in separate binder

(sic) - typed as spoken

(ph.) - phonetic


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1 MITCHELL D. RANDLES

2 Having been first duly sworn and examined,

3 testified as follows:

4 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LORAINE:

5 Q. Sir, would you state your name?

6 A. Mitchell D. Randles.

7 Q. That's with an S?

8 A. R-A-N-D-L-E-S. It's like Candles with an R.

9 Q. Not two L's?

10 A. No, sir.

11 Q. Mitchell Randles, I've explained a little bit

12 of the Advice of Rights form, it's marked as

13 Exhibit #A. Have you had an opportunity to

14 read that?

15 A. Yes, sir.

16 Q. And I'm going to read it because I said I

17 would. "I wish to advise you that you are

18 being questioned as part of an official

19 investigation by the City of Joplin. You

20 will be asked questions related and

21 specifically directed to the performance of

22 your official duties of fitness for office.

23 You are entitled to all the rights and

24 privileges guaranteed by the laws of the

25 Constitution of the State and the


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1 Constitution of the United States, including

2 the right not to be compelled to incriminate

3 yourself. I further wish to advise you that

4 if you refuse to testify or to answer

5 questions relating to the performance of your

6 official duties, you will be subject to

7 department charges, which could result in

8 your dismissal from your official duties. If

9 you do answer these statements may be used

10 against you in relation to subsequent

11 departmental charges, but not in any

12 subsequent criminal proceedings. I have read

13 and fully understand the Advice of Rights as

14 it appears above. This information has also

15 been read to me prior to answering any

16 questions." Did you understand that and have

17 an opportunity to thoroughly review this

18 document?

19 A. Yes, sir.

20 Q. And as I understand it you have heard of

21 Garrity, you sort of understand what this is

22 all about?

23 A. Yes, sir.

24 Q. So having said that would you execute this

25 Exhibit #A for me with printing your name a


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1 little bit above the signature line and then

2 dating it?

3 A. (Witness complies) Sure.

4 Q. The date is the 15th. And, sir, have you

5 complied with my request by executing this

6 document on Exhibit #A?

7 A. Yes, sir.

8 Q. I'm going to witness your signature, sir.

9 Fire Chief, you're head of the department?

10 A. Yes, sir.

11 Q. And your department, who is your direct

12 supervisor?

13 A. That would be Mark Rohr.

14 Q. The City Manager?

15 A. Correct.

16 Q. Similar to the Police Chief?

17 A. Correct.

18 Q. Do you and the Police Chief have any

19 particular social relationship?

20 A. Social, no, sir.

21 Q. What about you and Mr. Rohr?

22 A. No, sir.

23 Q. How long have you been employed, sir, in your

24 capacity?

25 A. As Fire Chief three years.


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1 Q. And were you with the department before that?

2 A. Yes, sir.

3 Q. And this is a City department?

4 A. That's correct.

5 Q. As opposed to a fire district?


7 Q. How long have you been with the district?

8 A. A little over 22 years.

9 Q. So this department 22 years?

10 A. Yes, sir.

11 Q. So would you say you came up through the

12 ranks?

13 A. That's correct, yes, sir.

14 Q. Do you consider yourself fairly knowledgeable

15 about City politics?

16 A. Somewhat. I try to avoid them when possible,

17 but I am aware of some of the City politics

18 that goes on, yes, sir.

19 Q. I'm going to direct your attention, if I may,

20 did you talk to anybody concerning your

21 testimony here today?

22 A. No, sir.

23 Q. Do you know why you're here?

24 A. No, sir.

25 Q. Sir, we are conducting a confidential


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1 examination of witnesses and to that end I'd

2 appreciate it when you leave you do not

3 involve yourself in a discussion of what

4 occurred here.

5 A. Yes, sir.

6 Q. I appreciate that and hopefully that will not

7 occur. Sir, in regards to your job as Fire

8 Chief a new station was built?

9 A. Yes, sir.

10 Q. And where was that station located?

11 A. Fire Station No. 6 is at 5302 West 32nd

12 Street.

13 Q. Is that the most recent fire station?

14 A. It's the most recent one that's currently

15 occupied. I have two others under

16 construction right now, one is at 2825 West

17 Junge Boulevard, and the other is at 3402

18 South Hearnes Boulevard.

19 Q. So let's talk about the one that's occupied.

20 A. Yes, sir.

21 Q. When was that station built?

22 A. We started construction on that in 2011, I

23 believe July, and we occupied that in April

24 of 2012.

25 Q. And I call that Fire Station 6?


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1 A. That would be correct, yes, sir.

2 Q. In the procurement of the funds to build

3 these fire stations where did that money come

4 from?

5 A. For Fire Station No. 6 that was the public

6 safety tax that was passed by voters in 2006.

7 Q. So it was a tax that was paid for by

8 citizens?

9 A. Correct.

10 Q. Authorized by the City Council?

11 A. Correct.

12 Q. Money would be appropriated, I assume, by the

13 City Manager. Is that a correct statement?

14 A. Yes, sir.

15 Q. So when the funds are written it's the City

16 Manager that says to write those funds?

17 A. Well, with a project that large it has to go

18 through the Council as well, so obviously we

19 put it in the budget, but when the purchase

20 order or the contract for the construction of

21 that facility comes to light because of the

22 dollar amount it would go before the Council

23 and be voted on by Council as well.

24 Q. Okay. Now would that be true of all money

25 spent on that particular firehouse?


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1 A. Of all money? No, sir.

2 Q. Why would there be exceptions to the City

3 Council actually reviewing money spent?

4 A. Like the purchase of the appliances would be

5 under the amount that would be required City

6 Council approval for that so we would just

7 purchase those on our own out of the budget

8 for that. The building of the facility of

9 course was all under City Council review, but

10 certain individual items that would go inside

11 it would not go before City Council review

12 because of the dollar amount.

13 Q. And what is the dollar amount?

14 A. To my understanding it's $100,000.00.

15 Q. But any money spent towards that firehouse

16 should be taken from that budget?

17 A. That would be correct.

18 Q. And if it weren't taken from that budget it

19 would be difficult to audit?

20 A. That would be correct.

21 Q. So I'm going to ask you specifically, I'd

22 like to direct your attention to the sewer on

23 that particular fire district, --

24 A. Okay.

25 Q. -- do you recall a method of trying to save


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1 money on that? I think your budget was

2 pretty tight, wasn't it?

3 A. As all City budgets are, yes, sir.

4 Q. And the effort was to save money as I

5 understand it.

6 A. Okay.

7 Q. Is that right?

8 A. About the sewer I have really no idea what

9 happened there. I don't know if there was an

10 effort to save money there or not. I wasn't

11 involved with the installation of the sewer.

12 Q. When I say sewer I'd like to talk about the

13 drainage area that became a sewer line, okay?

14 Is that what we're making discussion with?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Is 13th Street, is that the station we're

17 talking about?

18 A. No, sir.

19 Q. Let's go back and talk about 13th Street.

20 A. Okay, that would be Junge Boulevard.

21 Q. Let's talk about that. Perhaps I

22 misunderstood something as we went through

23 it. If I could direct your attention to that

24 fire station, when was that fire station

25 built?


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1 A. It's currently under construction. If I

2 recall correctly we started actual

3 construction on it approximately April of

4 this year and are looking for completion of

5 that somewhere in December.

6 Q. Is that the fire station that was, my prior

7 questions about your other Station No. 6,

8 would it be also true this is also under

9 budget?

10 A. Yes, it would have a budget, yes, sir.

11 Q. And what is the station number we're talking

12 about on 13th Street?

13 A. That would be Fire Station 2. A replacement

14 for a tornado destroyed building.

15 Q. Let's talk about Station No. 2.

16 A. Okay.

17 Q. Do you recall an item concerning Station No.

18 2 and the sewer pipe that involves that

19 station?

20 A. Somewhat, yes.

21 Q. Do you have any knowledge about - do you know

22 Dan Johnson?

23 A. I do.

24 Q. He's an engineer?

25 A. Uh-huh.


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1 Q. P.E., isn't he, Professional Engineer?

2 A. I believe so, yes.

3 Q. And he works for the City?


5 Q. Did he design a storm water system for

6 Station No. 2?

7 A. Did he design it? I don't believe so. I

8 believe Tri-State Engineering designed it.

9 Q. Do you know anything about a culvert --

10 A. Uh-huh.

11 Q. -- he designed?

12 A. Who did the actual design work I don't know.

13 My understanding is Tri-State Engineering

14 designed all of the storm water drainage that

15 goes there. It's my understanding that Dan

16 did not design that, but has been in charge

17 of the installation of it.

18 Q. In any case let's talk about the method of

19 the storm water disposal at that station.

20 A. Okay.

21 Q. Do you recall a conversation with Dan Johnson

22 about a certain area that would be concreted

23 and would become a partial lake or holding

24 pond compound for water?

25 A. No, sir.


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1 Q. Do you recall any discussion concerning the

2 purchase of a culvert?

3 A. I do know that a culvert was purchased for

4 that facility, yes, sir.

5 Q. And that culvert was not the design that was

6 originally intended for that. Is that true?

7 A. Well, for the storm water runoff? And I'm

8 trying to figure out what you're asking

9 exactly here. For the culvert part of it I

10 believe this is the original design. Now

11 there was a previous design for storm water

12 runoff at that station that was seen by Jack

13 Schaller, another engineer, as potentially

14 not being beneficial because we would lose

15 the entire use of that property so it was

16 proposed by Jack Schaller and myself to the

17 City Manager to do this concrete culvert and

18 redirection of the storm water so we could

19 potentially in the future sell of that other

20 property.

21 Q. The base of the property would have been

22 moist?

23 A. Correct.

24 Q. And therefore if it's moist it would require

25 extra pilings to build on? Is that the


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1 issue?

2 A. Correct, yeah, it required a significant

3 amount of ground work so that the station

4 would be stable.

5 Q. Was that property ultimately sold?

6 A. No, we're not done with it yet. Once all of

7 the work is done there it could potentially

8 be sold if someone was interested in it.

9 Q. And do you have any knowledge that the

10 original design not including the concrete

11 culvert would have been cheaper? Do you have

12 any knowledge of that?

13 A. I'm sure it would have been, yes, because

14 there was no culvert, it was just basically

15 dumping into a large open area, so yes, I'm

16 sure it would have been. I don't have direct

17 knowledge of the price differences, but I'm

18 sure it would have been, yes, sir.

19 Q. Do you know how the money was procured to

20 purchase that culvert?

21 A. It's my understanding it came from the storm

22 water funds that were left over from a

23 previous tax.

24 Q. Who told you that?

25 A. Jack Schaller and I believe Dan Johnson.


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1 Q. So you're telling me that money was not

2 appropriated to the City Council for their

3 approval?

4 A. That I do not know. The storm water portion

5 of that, I have very limited involvement in

6 because I'm not an engineer, you know, I'm

7 just not a storm water person.

8 Q. Didn't make any difference to you which way

9 it was done?

10 A. No, that's correct.

11 Q. You could care less?

12 A. I'm not knowledgeable enough to give an

13 opinion on what's the best way to do it.

14 Q. You realize that one way is cheaper than the

15 other way?

16 A. I'm certain it was.

17 Q. And the one way that would be cheaper would

18 save the City money?

19 A. Potentially I assume that can be correct.

20 Q. As far as what went into the decision to go

21 one way or the other you have no knowledge?

22 A. It was presented to the City Manager by Jack

23 Schaller and myself of this option that we've

24 done with the drainage culvert and the

25 construction that's going on at this point


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1 rather than just dumping it into the field.

2 Q. Well, dumping it into the field was not ever

3 an issue, was it? Before the culvert wasn't

4 that an impoundment of water of some sort?

5 A. I don't believe so, no.

6 Q. Are you telling me you recommended the

7 additional costs to this project?

8 A. Yes. Well, I was one person that did. I

9 thought it would be a good idea.

10 Q. And who else recommended that?

11 A. Jack Schaller.

12 Q. Was City Manager Rohr acceptable with the

13 additional funds being spent?


15 Q. And how did he get the money?

16 A. That I don't know.

17 Q. So you don't know where that additional

18 source of money came from?

19 A. No, sir.

20 Q. Anybody talk to you prior to coming in here

21 today?

22 A. No, sir.

23 Q. You have no engineering training whatsoever?

24 A. I mean I've had some classes, but I am not an

25 engineer or - I've been through some classes


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1 that engineers go through, but I'm not an

2 engineer in any way, shape, or form.

3 Q. And you don't purport to be? You don't make

4 those kind of decisions?

5 A. No, sir.

6 Q. Where is Jack Schaller today?

7 A. I'm sorry?

8 Q. Is Jack Schaller still with the City?

9 A. No, sir.

10 Q. Where is he at?

11 A. I believe he works for Olson & Associates, a

12 private civil engineer firm.

13 Q. Have you talked with him about this?

14 A. No, sir.

15 Q. Why is Jack not with the City?

16 A. He has personal reasons for leaving the City.

17 Q. Do you know what they were?

18 A. Just hearsay. I mean he was unhappy about

19 the rework of Public Works.

20 Q. What does that mean unhappy? What else did

21 he tell you?

22 A. That's about it. I mean I didn't go into

23 great detail with him.

24 Q. What's the rumors concerning his leaving the

25 City?


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1 A. The only rumors that I heard is just

2 basically he didn't feel like he'd be able to

3 obtain the Public Works Director's position

4 so he left.

5 Q. And who has the Public Works Director's

6 position?

7 A. That would be Nick Heatherly now.

8 Q. Who had it before?

9 A. David Hertzberg.

10 Q. Where is David Hertzberg?

11 A. He is still employed by the City in another

12 position. I couldn't tell you exactly what

13 it is.

14 Q. So he lost his position?

15 A. That's my understanding.

16 Q. What was the reason for that?

17 A. I do not know.

18 Q. Have no knowledge? Never talked with him

19 about it?

20 A. Anything I've talked to him about just is

21 just basic chit chat of the day and to tell

22 him that, you know, hey, miss seeing you on a

23 routine basis.

24 Q. Do you have a social relationship with

25 Hertzberg?


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1 A. No, sir.

2 Q. Try to stay away from City employees when you

3 have social relationships?

4 A. No, I don't necessarily try to stay away from

5 them, I just don't have a lot of social

6 relationships with City employees.

7 Q. Okay. And once again you do not know whether

8 the City authorized the additional funds, the

9 City Council?

10 A. I do not, no, sir.

11 Q. Do you know how that account was handled?

12 A. No, sir.

13 Q. Should that account for the additional funds,

14 should that be earmarked for that particular

15 budget?

16 A. Once again I don't honestly know. I know it

17 was not part of the original tax that was

18 done for storm water drainage. I know it was

19 leftover funds from the tax that was either

20 collected in excess of or products came in

21 cheaper and that's why they had the extra

22 money to be able to do that, but as far as

23 how it's accounted for or who tracks it or

24 what have you, I have no knowledge of that.

25 Q. I mean you're a department head.


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1 A. Correct.

2 Q. You'd expect that a budget is set up. You'd

3 expect any expenditures towards that budget

4 item to be somehow directed to that budget,

5 wouldn't you, by number or something?

6 A. Correct.

7 Q. I mean that would be correct auditing for

8 City work, wouldn't it?

9 A. Yes, I would agree.

10 Q. So we would assume somehow that would be

11 addressed to that so that an auditor could

12 later determine how the money was spent?

13 A. Correct.

14 Q. And you don't have any knowledge about any of

15 that?

16 A. No.

17 Q. The additional funds that were spent, do you

18 consider that an improvement over the

19 original design?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. That's your personal opinion?

22 A. Correct.

23 Q. But not an engineering opinion?

24 A. Correct.

25 Q. Now Mr. Schaller, do you know what his


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1 position was on that point?

2 A. I believe it would be the same because he's

3 the one that came up with the idea of putting

4 the culvert in and redirecting that storm

5 water.

6 Q. So if I need to talk with Jack Schaller about

7 that he would tell me the same thing you did?

8 A. I would assume so, yes.

9 Q. I would like to admonish you this is an

10 investigation that is confidential, we're

11 behind closed doors, and I would direct you

12 not to discuss this with anybody at any time.

13 And if somebody wants to discuss it with you

14 would you call me and let me know?

15 A. Sure.

16 Q. You can get hold of me through a card, I'll

17 give you one, but part of my job is to finish

18 this investigation in a confidential manner

19 and I'd like to do. Here is my business

20 card, sir.

21 A. All right.

22 Q. Now as far as departmental heads who is your

23 direct supervisor?

24 A. Mark Rohr, the City Manager.

25 Q. Is there anything in the nature of your


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1 relationship socially with Mr. Rohr?

2 A. No.

3 Q. Is there anything in the nature of your

4 relationship with Mr. Rohr that I should know

5 concerning the way he runs business or

6 anything else?

7 A. No, I guess not. If I was going to make any

8 statement about the way he conducts business

9 I've heard the comments that he runs the City

10 by fear and what have you, and I have never

11 spent a day scared of him or any of his

12 actions.

13 Q. That rumor has circulated in the City for

14 some --

15 A. Oh, it's been all over the media. I mean

16 it's been made in the media several times

17 that he manages by fear.

18 Q. What media that was in?

19 A. Newspaper, radio.

20 Q. Is that the Globe?

21 A. That's one.

22 Q. Any other newspaper that was in?

23 A. That I don't know.

24 Q. I heard that rumor and I'm wondering what was

25 the source of that, if you knew?


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1 A. Well, two Council people have said that in

2 open Council meetings.

3 Q. Who is that?

4 A. Bill Scearce would be one and Dr. Rosenberg

5 would be the other.

6 Q. As far as you're concerned there's nothing in

7 the relationship that you have with City

8 Manager Rohr that would indicate there would

9 be any truth to that?

10 A. No, sir, like I say I have never been fearful

11 of him.

12 Q. Thank you. Appreciate you coming in here.

13 Keep us quiet.

14 A. Yes, sir.

15 Q. Thank you for coming over, and you're done,

16 Chief.

17 A. Thank you.

18

19 (SWORN STATEMENT CONCLUDED)

20

21

22


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REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE

STATE OF MISSOURI

ss.

COUNTY OF JASPER

I, SHARON K. ROGERS, Certified Court Reporter in the

State of Missouri, do certify that pursuant to the

foregoing Stipulation the witness came before me on the

15th day of November, 2013, was duly sworn by me, and was

examined. That examination was then taken by me by

steno-mask recording and afterwards transcribed; said Sworn

Statement is subscribed by the witness as hereinbefore set

out on the day in that behalf aforesaid and is herewith

returned.

I further certify that I am not counsel, attorney, or

relative of either party, or clerk, or stenographer of

either party or of the attorney of either party, or

otherwise interested in the event of this suit.

_________________________

SHARON K. ROGERS, CCR-650

Randles, Mitchell D. | Testimony transcript 11!15!13

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Transcript of Randles, Mitchell D. | Testimony transcript 11!15!13