03-10-16 Justin Biggs Testimony - 2Defendant's Case(1)

Stacy L. Drohosky, FCRR, CRR, RPR(219) 852-3462 - [email protected]

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT NORTHERN DISTRICT OF INDIANA

HAMMOND DIVISION BRIAN VUKADINOVICH, ) )vs. 2:13-CV-144 ) )HANOVER COMMUNITY SCHOOL )CORPORATION, et al. )

TRANSCRIPT OF EXCERPT TESTIMONY OF JUSTIN BIGGS March 10, 2016

BEFORE THE HONORABLE PHILIP P. SIMON UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE

A P P E A R A N C E S:

FOR THE PLAINTIFF:

BRIAN VUKADINOVICH 1129 E 1300 N Wheatfield, Indiana 46392 (219) 956-2462

FOR THE DEFENDANTS:

MARSHA VOLK BUGALLA CHAD M. BUELL Frost Brown Todd LLC 201 North Illinois Street, Suite 1900 P.O. Box 44961 Indianapolis, Indiana 46244 (317) 237-3800

Court Reporter: Stacy L. Drohosky, FCRR, CRR, RPR Official Court Reporter United States District Court 5400 Federal Plaza, Suite 4005 Hammond, Indiana 46320

(219) 852-3462 Proceedings reported by stenotype. Transcript produced by computer-aided transcription.

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JUSTIN BIGGS- DIRECT

(The following is an excerpt transcript of the testimony

of Justin Biggs called in the defendant's case in chief:)

THE COURT: All right. You can be seated.

Ladies and gentlemen, as you heard me say before the

break, and, again, I appreciate your patiences.

Mr. Vukadinovich has rested his case.

And now the defendant has an opportunity to present their

case. And so that's what we're about to do.

Ms. Bugalla, you may proceed.

MS. BUGALLA: Justin Biggs, please.

THE COURT: Mr. Biggs, you may come forward.

Sir, you are still under oath from earlier in the trial.

JUSTIN BIGGS, DEFENDANT WITNESS, SWORN

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MS. BUGALLA:

Q. Mr. Biggs, we're not going to go through all your

testimony again. You can take a breath, okay. But there are a

few things I'd like to discuss with you.

When you met with Mr. Vukadinovich on May 2 and handed him

his preliminary determination -- we've spoken about this

before, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. On that day, did you have any animosity toward him?

A. No.

Q. And were you handing him that letter at the direction of

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the superintendent?

A. Yes.

Q. Now, on that day, did you know anything about his

settlement of a Hammond lawsuit?

A. No.

Q. Did you know there had even been such a lawsuit?

A. No.

Q. Had he ever -- Mr. Vukadinovich ever mentioned such a

lawsuit to you?

A. No.

Q. So on May 2, 2012, did you say to Mr. Vukadinovich

anything to the effect referring to that lawsuit at all that he

should have saved the money and did he know there would be

repercussions? Did you say --

A. No.

Q. -- anything like that?

A. No, I didn't say anything like that.

Q. And, in fact, if you did not know about the lawsuit, you

couldn't have said that, could you?

A. That's correct.

Q. Did you call him an old man?

A. No.

Q. Now, after May 2, did you ever tell anyone that you had

made such comments between May 2 and June 11, 2012?

A. I didn't even know about the alleged comments for quite a

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while.

Q. So you didn't even know that you were accused of making

such comments until after the Board had voted on

Mr. Vukadinovich's contract?

A. Correct.

Q. So you couldn't deny something you didn't even know you

had made, correct?

A. That's correct.

Q. Mr. Vukadinovich has alleged that you harassed him from

May 2 to June 7, that you came into his room inappropriately.

Did you do that to harass him?

A. No.

Q. Were you trying to get him some information?

A. Yes.

Q. Did he cause the interruption in the class?

A. Yes.

Q. Was he rude to you?

A. Yes.

Q. The incident where he was accused of being rude to the

special ed speaker, did someone bring that to your attention?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you seek out that information?

A. No.

Q. Was it your responsibility to look into the allegation?

A. Yes.

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Q. Did you determine that it was Mr. Vukadinovich who had

been rude?

A. Yes.

Q. The meeting with Ms. Kaiser on May 11, did you go into

that meeting with the intent of being disruptive?

A. No.

Q. Did you go in with the intent of harassing

Mr. Vukadinovich?

A. Not at all.

Q. Did you go in because you didn't know if you were supposed

to be there?

A. That's correct.

Q. And did you leave immediately?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you say anything to Mr. Vukadinovich in that meeting?

A. Not that I recall.

Q. Was he rude to you?

A. Yes.

Q. He alleges that you met with him on June 7 about whether

or not he had given a final exam, is that correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Had you directed all of your teachers to give a pencil and

paper final exam?

A. I had.

Q. And had you received information that he had not done

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that?

A. Yes.

Q. And were you acting on that information when you met with

him?

A. Yes.

Q. And when you met with him on June 7, did you do so to

inquire as to whether he had given such an exam?

A. Yes.

Q. And did you think it was important for all the students to

be given such exams by all the teachers?

A. Yes.

Q. And would you have met with any teacher whom you were

concerned had not given such an exam?

A. Yes.

Q. Did any other teachers fail to do so?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you meet with them?

A. Yes.

Q. And was your purpose in meeting with them to make sure

they gave the exam?

A. That's correct.

Q. In these meetings with Mr. Vukadinovich regarding his

classroom, regarding the special ed interruption, regarding the

paper and pencil test, did you discipline him in any way?

A. No.

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Q. Did he suffer a loss of pay? Was he suspended by you?

Anything?

A. No.

Q. Now, Mr. Vukadinovich has alleged or stated that he

believes he could have taught Ryan Spencer's classes. Remember

we looked at Ryan Spencer's classes for 2012-2013?

A. Yes, I remember.

Q. Let me show you that exhibit. It has been admitted, so

we'll display it for everyone.

Now, according to this, which you have previously

testified to --

THE COURT: What exhibit number is that, Counsel?

MS. BUGALLA: YY, I'm sorry.

THE COURT: Just for the record.

MS. BUGALLA: YY.

BY MS. BUGALLA:

Q. And actually Mr. Spencer's classes are not on here, are

they?

A. I'm reading it now. I don't -- I don't see his name. I'm

looking at the courses now. I don't believe there are any

additional added courses or additional subtracted courses from

this list.

Q. Just one moment. And I apologize. I'll get you the

master schedule so that you can see it.

But while I'm looking, Mr. Spencer took over the CTE

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classes that had been taught by Mr. Yurechko, did he not?

A. Yes.

Q. And Mr. Spencer had a Workplace Specialist Certificate

from the State of Indiana, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And I believe you testified that a Workplace Specialist

Certificate is issued if someone has worked in a particular

field, is that correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Mr. Vukadinovich did not have a workplace specialist

license, did he?

A. No.

Q. Could he have taught the CTE classes that Mr. Spencer

taught in 2012-2013?

A. No.

Q. I apologize. I'm not able to lay my hands right now on

the master schedule, but you previously testified to it.

Mr. Vukadinovich keeps saying, well, he could teach

graphic arts. Is that true?

A. It depends on the definition of graphic arts.

Q. All right. Let's be more specific. Could he have taught

any of the fine arts classes that were scheduled in 2012-2013?

We have 2D Art, 3D Art. Was he licensed to teach those?

A. No.

Q. Is there anything on these courses that were added at the

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high school for 2012-2013 that he was licensed to teach?

A. No.

Q. And that's true at both the high school and the middle

school?

A. Yes.

Q. So when he says he can teach graphic arts, is that sort of

like saying he can teach middle school?

A. Somewhat. I'm not sure the connection there.

Q. It is not specific?

A. Correct.

Q. I'm going to show you what is -- has not yet been

admitted.

MS. BUGALLA: This is an exhibit for impeachment,

Your Honor. A portion of it is included in what was listed by

Mr. Vukadinovich in his Plaintiff's 153 but, that was

incomplete. This, I believe, is complete; but it has not been

marked with a number or letter yet.

THE COURT: Okay. Fair enough.

MR. VUKADINOVICH: Can I see it, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Yeah. Why don't you show

Mr. Vukadinovich.

(Document tendered.)

MS. BUGALLA: I left out a page, I'm sorry. Put this

at the end.

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BY MS. BUGALLA:

Q. Mr. Biggs, what are you looking at? What is that

document?

A. It is many pages of -- with a title at the top, it says

Assignment Codes. Looks to be a Department of Education print

off of the teaching assignment codes.

Q. Was it issued by the Indiana Department of Education?

A. I believe so, yes.

Q. And is it a document that the Department of Ed issues

routinely as part of the business conducted by the Department

of Education?

A. Yes.

Q. And does it list course designations, the title of the

course, and the license needed to teach each course?

A. Yes.

Q. Does it also designate which courses are eligible for CTE

funding?

A. It does show CTE licensing.

MS. BUGALLA: Your Honor, we would move the admission

of --

THE COURT: What was your last exhibit number?

MS. BUGALLA: YY.

THE COURT: So make it double Z. So we'll mark it in

a second.

Do you have any objection to what has been designated ZZ?

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MR. VUKADINOVICH: What time frame is that exhibit

relevant to?

MS. BUGALLA: Okay. I'll answer that.

THE COURT: Could you lay some more foundation?

BY MS. BUGALLA:

Q. At the bottom is there a designation as to when this

document was revised?

A. August 1, 2014.

Q. And in your position as principal at Hanover, were you

familiar with assignment codes?

A. Yes.

Q. And to the best of your knowledge, the document that is in

front of you was in existence in 2012?

A. Yes.

THE COURT: Any objection to ZZ?

MR. VUKADINOVICH: Your Honor, because it is for 2014

and that's after the termination and even the following school

year was 2012-2013, so it wouldn't be relevant.

THE COURT: Your response.

MS. BUGALLA: Yes. I believe he just testified, I

can make it clearer, that the document in front of him was in

existence and the information we're going to discuss was in

existence as it is on that document in 2012.

THE COURT: I think that's the foundation that makes

it relevant; but when you get to that particular area, I want

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you to ask him that.

MS. BUGALLA: Okay.

THE COURT: So I'm gonna conditionally admit ZZ at

this point subject to that further foundation.

BY MS. BUGALLA:

Q. Yesterday, Mr. Biggs, you heard Mr. Brooks opine from his

memory that he thought Mr. Vukadinovich's high school classes

qualified for CTE funding. Do you remember hearing that?

A. Yes.

Q. I'd like you to look in the assignment codes you have in

front of you for each of Mr. Vukadinovich's high school

classes; construction, manufacturing, and transportation

systems.

A. Okay.

Q. Which one are you looking at?

A. Construction systems.

Q. What is the designated number?

A. 4782.

Q. I believe that yesterday there was some testimony with

Mr. Brooks that CTE classes had a designation of 5,000. Do you

remember hearing that?

A. I do.

Q. This class, again, what was it? What are you looking at?

A. Construction systems.

Q. Has a 4,000 designation, does it not?

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A. Yes.

Q. Now, the information that you're looking at for

construction systems, is that the same information that was in

the assignment codes in 2012?


Q. And as you look at that, does the assignment code

information indicate whether that class was available for CTE

funding in 2012-2013?

A. It does not.

Q. So that we're clear, construction systems was not

designated by the State as a CTE class, is that correct?

A. Not by this document.

Q. And that's from the State, correct?

A. Correct.

Q. All right. Can you look for another of Mr. Vukadinovich's

high school classes?

A. Yes. Okay.

Q. What are you looking at now?

A. Intro to Manufacturing.

Q. And what is the course number?

A. 4784.

Q. So once again it is not a 5,000 number, is it?

A. No.

Q. And the information you're looking at for -- I'm sorry,

manufacturing?

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A. Yes.

Q. Is that the same information that existed in 2012?

A. As far as I know, yes.

Q. And is Intro to Manufacturing Systems as designated by the

State of Indiana, is that designated as a CTE-qualified class?

A. It doesn't appear to be.

Q. Well, is it or isn't it?

A. Not on this list.

Q. It doesn't say so, does it?

A. No.

Q. Okay. It would say so if it was, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. All right. Can you look for the last of his classes.

A. It is on the same page.

Q. Which one is this?

A. Intro to Transportation.

Q. And what number is it given?

A. 4798.

Q. It is not a 5,000 number, is it?

A. No.

Q. And the information for that class that you're looking at,

is that the same information in 2012?

A. Yes, as far as I know.

Q. And is it designated by the State as a CTE-qualified

class?

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JUSTIN BIGGS- CROSS

A. No.

Q. So when you and Ms. Kaiser both testified that

Mr. Vukadinovich's high school classes, Transportation,

Manufacturing, and Construction were not qualified as CTE

classes, that testimony conforms with the State's information,

correct?

A. Yes.

MS. BUGALLA: Your Honor, we'll need to make some

more copies at some point.

THE COURT: Okay.

MS. BUGALLA: One moment.

That's all, Mr. Biggs, thank you.

THE COURT: Mr. Vukadinovich?

MR. VUKADINOVICH: Thank you.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. VUKADINOVICH:

Q. You testified that you didn't make the comments to me on

May 2, is that correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Now, before May 2, 2012, did you ever call me in

for a disciplinary meeting before that date?

A. I'm sorry. Can you repeat the question.

Q. Did you ever call me in for a disciplinary meeting with

you before May 2, 2012?

A. No.

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JUSTIN BIGGS- CROSS

Q. Okay. And how many months would that have been -- that

would have been, like, eight months, right, of the school year,

roughly?

A. If I had to guess -- we started in August; so August,

September, October, November, December, January, February,

March, April, May, so 10 months.

Q. Okay. So for 10 months you never called me in for a

disciplinary meeting? There was nothing, correct?

A. That's correct.

Q. From May 2 how many times did you call me in for a

disciplinary meeting?

A. No times.

Q. No times?

A. Not at all.

Q. Did you say the meeting may be disciplinary?

A. I did.

Q. Okay. You said disciplinary, correct?

A. I did use the word "disciplinary," yes.

Q. Okay. How many times did you do that?

A. I don't recall.

Q. Well, did you call me in one time for something about the

thing about the library?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Did you call me in one time for something about the

testing procedure?

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JUSTIN BIGGS- CROSS

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Now, let's go to the testing procedure thing, okay.

Do you remember the date that that happened?

A. I do. Do you want me to tell you the date I believe it

happened?

Q. Yes.

A. The testing procedure or the special education issue? I'm

sorry.

Q. Let's go to the special education issue.

A. What was the date of that --

Q. Yeah.

A. -- incident or alleged incident?

Q. Uh-huh.

A. I don't recall. It was before our meeting of May 22.

Q. Okay. Somewhere at least in May, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Were there any other presentations during the

school year that took place?

A. There were many presentations.

Q. Many presentations -- and before -- before May 2, correct?

A. And after, yes.

Q. Okay. But before I'm asking you.

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Now, was there ever any allegations that I was out

of line at any presentations, at any of those many meetings

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JUSTIN BIGGS- CROSS

before May 2?

A. No.

Q. Okay. Was there -- now -- and when you called me in, was

my name on any document at all?

A. I don't understand.

Q. Well, did you give me an e-mail of some kind and say, hey,

we had some kind of a problem at the meeting?

A. Could you repeat your question. I don't understand.

Q. What did you do when you called me in for that library

thing you are talking about?

A. It's hard for me to guess. I mean, I could expand on what

I did.

Q. I'm asking you what -- when you called me in, what did you

say to me?

A. Could you clarify which date and which meeting.

Q. For the library incident thing you are talking about.

A. For the library meeting I called you in to ask you about

the events of the incident and your side of the incident.

Q. Okay. And then did you show me a document of any kind?

A. I did.

Q. Okay. And what was that document?

A. It was an e-mail message.

Q. Okay. And was my name in that e-mail?

A. No.

Q. Okay. So how many teachers did you have at the school

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JUSTIN BIGGS- CROSS

roughly?

A. Thirty-five.

Q. At our school particularly, right?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Now, did that meeting -- was that kind of like a

district-wide meeting?

A. I don't recall.

Q. Okay. So how many people were at that meeting?

A. I don't recall. I didn't attend.

Q. Well, there had to be at least 35, right, 'cause there was

35 teachers?

A. I don't recall.

Q. Okay. Now, how did my name come up?

A. By following up with several other staff members to find

out who the person was from the e-mail message.

Q. Okay. And who were those staff members?

A. I don't recall.

Q. And did I try to find out who this person was at this

meeting that this allegation was made about?

A. I don't understand your question.

Q. Did I actually ask the person who sent you the e-mail, who

are you talking about here?

A. Yes.

Q. And then what happened after that?

A. I don't understand how to answer that.

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JUSTIN BIGGS- CROSS

Q. Well, you know that I asked that person, correct, who are

you talking about here?

A. There's a couple parts to your question. I don't

understand.

Q. You gave me an e-mail, correct, that's when you called me

in, which could be a disciplinary meeting, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And then did I then ask that person who wrote that

e-mail to you, Who are you talking about in this e-mail?

A. I don't -- I can't answer the question, sir. I don't

understand what you're asking me.

Q. Did you -- who was the person that wrote you the e-mail?

A. Candi Cress.

Q. And did you talk to Candi Cress about this?

A. Yes.

Q. And did you e-mail Candi Cress about this?

A. I did.

Q. Okay. And what did you tell her in the e-mail?

A. In my e-mail message to her --

Q. Yes, yours to her. What you did you tell her?

A. I believe that came up a couple days ago. I believe I

apologized that she was involved in any way.

Q. What did you exactly say to her when you apologized?

A. I don't recall.

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JUSTIN BIGGS- CROSS

MR. CUNNINGHAM: 112, 113, possibly.

MR. VUKADINOVICH: Have those been admitted?

THE COURT: I don't want you guys talking in open

court like that. Just go and talk to him in quiet.

MR. CUNNINGHAM: I'm sorry.

MR. VUKADINOVICH: I'm sorry.

THE WITNESS: Can I answer the question if I can

recall it?

THE COURT: Let --

MR. CUNNINGHAM: I got it here.

MR. VUKADINOVICH: Your Honor, could I check and see

if 113 has been admitted or not?

THE COURT: Noel, could you check that, please.

DEPUTY CLERK: Did you say 113?

THE COURT: 113, yes.

DEPUTY CLERK: No.

MR. VUKADINOVICH: It has not?

DEPUTY CLERK: No.

MR. VUKADINOVICH: Okay. Thank you.


Q. I'm gonna show you No. 113.

Which has not been admitted, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Okay.


Q. Okay. Would you take a look at that and identify that

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JUSTIN BIGGS- CROSS

document.

A. It is an e-mail message from me to Candi Cress copying

Ms. Kaiser and Jane Winkoff.

MR. VUKADINOVICH: I move to admit No. 113, Your

Honor.

MS. BUGALLA: No objection.

THE COURT: All right. It is admitted, 113. I'll

display it. Sorry.

(Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 113, previously marked, was

admitted in evidence.)


Q. Okay. Now, Mr. Biggs, I'm gonna draw your attention down

to the body of the e-mail that I actually wrote. Okay. Could

you just take a look at it. Take a half a minute or so and

just take a look at it.

A. Yes.

Q. All right. Am I asking this Ms. Cress about what happened

at the meeting?

A. I'm sorry, could you repeat that.

Q. Am I asking her what happened at this meeting? Am I

asking her some questions about you sent an e-mail to Mr. Biggs

and so forth and was there some kind of an incident that

happened and that type of thing?

A. I don't believe you are asking any questions.

Q. Okay. What do you say is happening in that e-mail that I

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JUSTIN BIGGS- CROSS

wrote to Ms. Biggs [verbatim]?

A. That you were writing a message to her.

Q. Okay. And what was the message?

A. It stated there -- do you want me to read it?

Q. Yeah, go ahead and read it.

A. [As read:] "Dear Mrs. Cress, as you know, I sent you an

e-mail on May 25, 2012, regarding an e-mail you sent to

Mr. Justin Biggs on May 15, 2012, wherein you made certain

accusatory statements that have resulted in severe

admonishments and threat of job action against me. Your e-mail

to Mr. Biggs did not state the name of the person -- of the

person you were directing your accusations against. I asked

you to state with certainty if I am the person that you

discussed in your e-mail to Mr. Biggs, but you have failed to

answer the question. I also asked you to identify the teachers

that you referred to in your e-mail to Mr. Biggs that you say

were angry and frustrated. This is a very serious accusation,

and your e-mail has resulted in severe admonishments and threat

of job action against me. In light of what you have stated in

your e-mail and the actions that have been taken against me due

to your e-mail, it is very important and imperative that you

state with certainty as to whether or not I am the person that

you are referring to in your e-mail to Mr. Biggs and also the

names of the teachers you say were "angry" and "frustrated."

Since you stated that teachers were angry and frustrated over

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the matters that you have accused in your letter to Mr. Biggs,

you should have no problem in coming up with the name of the

person that you talk about in your e-mail to Mr. Biggs. At the

end of your e-mail you discussed "professionalism," and yet you

have chosen to ignore my request for this very important

information that I made of you in May 25, 2012, e-mail. If you

are really concerned with "professionalism" then you wouldn't

be ignoring my e-mail and failing to respond to the information

I asked for. Again, please state with certainty whether or not

I am the person you referred to in your e-mail to Mr. Biggs,

and also state the names of the teachers who were "angry" and

"frustrated" as you stated in your e-mail to Mr. Biggs. It is

imperative that you promptly provide the answers to these

questions to me."

Q. Okay. Now, you testified that I didn't ask her any

questions, is that correct?

A. That's correct.

Q. And did I ask her some questions?

A. No.

Q. I didn't ask her to identify the teachers that she said

were angry and frustrated?

A. No.

Q. To supply the names?

A. You asked please to state.

Q. Okay. Am I asking her to state the names of the people?

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A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And did she ever do that?

A. Not to you, no, I don't believe so.

Q. Did she state them to you?

A. No, I don't think she did.

Q. So we don't know who these angry and frustrated teachers

were?

A. I don't know.

Q. So we don't know who these angry and frustrated teachers

were. We don't know by the e-mail who the person was that

created this ruckus and the thing, okay, but -- what did you

tell her now? Let's go to the top. Read what you told her.

A. I said, "I am so sorry to have brought you into this

issue. I believe, though I need to confirm with Carol, that

you needn't respond. I tried you yesterday, but it was after

hours. Is there a good time to call?"

Q. Okay. So you actually told her not to respond, correct?

A. I said I believe that she needn't respond.

Q. Okay. And why not? Why wouldn't you want her to respond?

A. Because her response to you provoked a harangue and

harassment messages by you to her.

Q. What harassment messages did I do to her?

A. The one below that I just read.

Q. This one here?

A. Yes.

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Q. The one that I'm asking her -- I'm telling her in the

e-mail that you called me in on disciplinary measures and that

I would like for her to give us some information about who this

person is that created this ruckus and also who are these

teachers that were angry and frustrated. We could have went to

them and maybe cast some light on what happened here. So

that's some harassment?

A. Yeah, I believe so, yes.

Q. Okay. So you think it is okay to make an accusation and

the person doesn't get a chance to find out information of what

happened so he can defend himself?

A. I don't believe so, no.

Q. You think that's appropriate?

A. What's appropriate?

Q. To make an accusation against somebody but not give them

information about the accusation you are making against them?

A. It depends on the circumstance.

Q. Well, this circumstance here. You called me in on a

disciplinary meeting, correct?

A. It could have been a disciplinary meeting, yes.

Q. Okay. And then -- well, is that a pleasant experience to

be called in by your boss in writing, come in, we could have a

disciplinary meeting here, and this ruckus happened, is that a

pleasant experience? Have you ever been called in for a

disciplinary meeting?

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A. There's questions there I don't know.

Q. Well, is it a pleasant experience to have your boss call

you in and say, hey, listen, this thing over here, this and

this and this, that certainly wouldn't be a pleasant experience

would it?

A. Correct.

Q. Okay. Don't you think that when an accusation is made

that the truth should come out about what happened at the, you

know, whatever incident it was?

A. I'm having trouble answering your question.

Q. How do you know there was an incident? How do we even

know there was an incident? It is what she told you, correct?

A. I'm trying to answer your questions; but there's so many,

it is hard to keep up.

Q. You are going by what came out of this e-mail, correct?

A. I am.

Q. Okay. And that's all you have, correct?

A. No.

Q. Did you provide me any information about any other

information that you have?

A. Yes.

Q. And what was that?

A. That I had discussed with other staff members.

Q. And I'm asking you, who are those staff members?

A. I don't recall.

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Q. Okay. Now, this incident supposedly happened on what day?

A. I don't recall.

Q. But it was definitely in May sometime, correct?


Q. Okay. And then you stated to her that you actually

brought her into the issue, is that correct?

A. No.

Q. You didn't state that to her?

A. No. I said, "I'm so sorry to have brought you into this

issue."

Q. Okay. Well, didn't you say to her that you brought her

into this issue?

A. I guess -- you are right. That's what that statement

implies, yes.

Q. So we're clear here, you brought her into the issue,

correct?

A. Yes.

MR. VUKADINOVICH: That's been admitted, correct?

I'm sorry.

THE COURT: I believe so, yes.


Q. All right. Now, when -- the thing in the superintendent's

office there, that was also in May, correct?

A. I don't know which --

Q. When we had the meeting in the superintendent's office

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that you appeared in.

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And had you been talking to Ms. Kaiser before --

that happened to be on May 11, is that correct?

A. There's two questions there. I'm not sure which one you

want me to answer.

Q. Was the meeting with Ms. Kaiser that you walked into that

I was having, was that on May 11, 2012?


Q. Did you talk to Ms. Kaiser anytime during the day on

May 11?

A. I don't recall.

Q. Okay. Or the day before?

A. It's possible.

Q. Okay. Now, could you have asked her previous to the

meeting, do you need me to be at this meeting on May 11?

A. I can't guess.

Q. Could you have e-mailed Ms. Kaiser a few days before and

say, hey, you know, this meeting coming up, do you need me

there?

A. I can't guess.

Q. Did you do that?

A. I can't guess.

Q. I'm not asking you to guess. Did you e-mail Ms. Kaiser

and ask her, do I need to be at this meeting?

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A. I don't believe I did.

Q. Okay. And did you call her on the phone and say, do I

need to be at this meeting?

A. No.

Q. Okay. But you came to the meeting, correct?

A. I did.

Q. And we've been already having all these things going on in

May, correct?

A. I don't know what you mean.

Q. Well, you kept calling me in for the thing about the

library and then did you at some point e-mail Ms. Kaiser and

tell her that I failed to show up for some staff meeting?

A. I believe the thing in the library was after that meeting.

Q. Okay. All right. Now, in May, did you e-mail Ms. Kaiser

in May at any point and say that I failed to show up for some

meeting I was supposed to be at?

A. I believe I did.

Q. Okay. And was that in May?

A. I don't recall.

MR. VUKADINOVICH: One second, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Sure.


Q. Did you at some point tell Ms. Kaiser that I failed to

show up for a meeting?

A. Yes.

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Q. Okay. But you don't remember when that was?

A. I could narrow it down to two months.

Q. Okay. What months was it in?

A. Between May and July.

Q. Okay. Now, that particular day that you told Ms. Kaiser

that I failed to show up for a meeting, where was I?

A. I don't know.

Q. Well, didn't I have supervision duties every morning of

the week?

A. From what I recall, yes.

Q. Okay. And was it the cafeteria supervision?

A. I believe there were detention supervision in there too.

Q. Right. Either one or the other, is that correct?

A. I believe so.

Q. Okay. Every day of the week, correct?

A. Maybe not Friday.

Q. Okay. All right. Now -- well, who supervised the

cafeteria on Friday then if I wasn't supervising?

A. I believe we had a couple of supervisors. You were one.

Q. Isn't that because I did detention two days of the week

and then we had to have the other supervisor because I was

doing detention on two of the days, isn't that why there was

another supervisor?

A. That makes sense.

Q. Okay. Now, did you ever tell Ms. Kaiser from the first

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JUSTIN BIGGS- CROSS

day of the school year up until May, did you ever tell

Ms. Kaiser that I failed to show up for a meeting?

A. No.

Q. Okay. And so this happened after May 2 though, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And how could I be at a meeting if I'm supervising either

the detention or cafeteria?

A. I don't know.

Q. Well, could I be?

A. You couldn't do both.

Q. Right. And was I under contract to be the supervisor of

the cafeteria and the detention supervisor?

A. I believe so.

Q. Okay. And if I didn't go into the detention room when the

students were in there and if I didn't go into the cafeteria

when there's all these students in there, okay, would I have

gotten in trouble?

A. No.

Q. If I had a job to do that I didn't show up for it, I

wouldn't get in trouble for that?

A. No because by that point I would have asked you to come to

the staff meeting instead of the cafeteria, so no.

Q. And did you do that?

A. I believe so.

Q. Well, if you did that, who is supervising the detention?

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JUSTIN BIGGS- CROSS

A. Maybe it was canceled that day. I don't know.

Q. And maybe we had the detention?

A. You couldn't do both.

Q. Okay. But maybe we had the detention?

A. I don't recall.

Q. All right. Now, May 24 now. Again in May. Did you tell

Ms. Kaiser that there was a conference and then you were gonna

log insubordinate behavior against me?

A. I don't recall.

Q. Do you remember telling Ms. Kaiser you were gonna log

insubordinate behavior against me?

A. I did.

Q. You did log it?

A. In that e-mail message.

Q. Well, you said you were gonna log insubordinate behavior.

Did you actually do that?

A. I don't understand what you are asking.

Q. Well, did you tell Ms. Kaiser that you were going to log

insubordinate behavior against me?

A. I believe I stated that I would -- I advised you that I

would log the insubordinate behavior.

Q. And then did you log insubordinate behavior against me?

A. Not on any official log, no.

Q. Okay. Why not?

A. Because I believe the e-mail was sufficient as a log.

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Q. It says that Mr. Landis and Mr. Brooks were there,

correct?

A. I believe so.

Q. Okay. Now, do you remember what the problem was here?

Why we had this meeting?

A. Could you -- or I don't recall the date.

Q. Okay. The e-mail is May 23rd, and you said yesterday at

our conference, so that would have made it May 22 the actual

conference.

A. Okay. So that must have been the issue relating to the

special education meeting.

Q. Okay. Now, when you called me in on the June 7th

meeting -- by the way, what's the last day of the school year?

A. It varies by school year. I don't recall that

particular --

Q. Well, doesn't it have to be somewhere about June 7th?

A. Not necessarily. It depends on the number of school days

and when you start the school year.

Q. Is it fair to say that that would be somewhere right

towards the end of the school year?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Now, did you have my class observed that week?

A. I don't understand what you mean by observed.

Q. Did you have -- you don't know what observe means?

A. Observed in my area means a lot of different things. It

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JUSTIN BIGGS- CROSS

could be an official observation with its times with a written

transcript where we have a post-observation conference; it

could be a walk-through observation that lasts 30 seconds; it

could be observing a student doing particular work. I mean,

there are lots of different ways to define it.

Q. Did you do any of those? Did you have any of those?

A. Which is your question, sir?

Q. Did you in any way of those which you just said, did you

have my class observed the last week of the school year?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And who did you have observe my class?

A. I believe it was Mr. Bachinski.

Q. And it was an observation?

A. Again, when you say observation, it makes it sound like an

official thing. This was certainly an official thing, but as

far as I know, it didn't last more than two minutes.

Q. Okay. Well, I was basically already terminated, wasn't I?

A. No.

Q. Well, you told me that you were -- I'm gone, didn't you?

A. No.

Q. What did you tell me?

A. When?

Q. On May 2.

A. I read to you the letter that I had given you and then I

called you back to the office to ask you to initial the spot

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where I hadn't put in the date, and I put in the date. I said

I was sorry that this is happening.

Q. And then you had my class observed, correct?

A. Those are -- chronologically, yes.

Q. All right. Now, was I in school that day?

A. I don't believe so.

Q. And you observed my class on a day I wasn't in school?

A. I did not.

Q. You didn't have it observed on a day I wasn't in school?

A. I did have it observed.

Q. Okay. Now -- and then you called me in on a disciplinary

meeting somewhere definitely towards the end of the school year

over it, correct?

A. As I've said, it may have been disciplinary, and that's

what I told you.

Q. And now -- so what was the conclusion of that meeting?

A. You left the room.

Q. I mean, did you take any official action on me?

A. No.

Q. Okay. Well, what's the purpose -- what would be the

purpose then of calling me in on the -- close to the last day

of the school year when it is pretty much the handwriting is on

the wall?

A. The purpose is to give you appropriate due process as I

investigate an incident that came to my attention.

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Q. Okay. And did you write up a report and say that I

violated some policy, testing policy?

A. I don't recall.

Q. Well, if you called me in for that allegation, either it

happened or it didn't happen, wouldn't that be fair to say?

A. I don't understand how to answer your question.

Q. Well, you called me in, which may be disciplinary,

correct?

A. That's correct.

Q. Okay. So either in your opinion I was guilty of what you

were charging me with or I wasn't. Which one was it?

A. I didn't charge you with anything.

Q. Okay. So was I exonerated of whatever your accusation

was?

A. I didn't make an accusation.

Q. What did you call me in for?

A. To investigate the circumstances that occurred.

Q. Okay. And did you say to me, you violated my testing

policy?

A. No.

Q. What was this all about then?

A. I don't understand when your saying "this."

Q. So it wasn't an accusation --

A. No.

Q. -- correct?

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But it was some problem with testing policy, correct?

A. I don't believe it was a policy by any official way.

Q. Okay. All right. Now, another day in May you came into

my classroom during my class time, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Do you remember what day that was?

A. I believe it was May 8.

Q. Okay. Which was after the May 2 date that --

A. Yes, May 8.

Q. Okay. And now, prior to that, prior to that, did I ask

you to -- for some records, my personnel file and so forth?

A. Yes.

Q. Related to the termination proceeding, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Is that something I have a right to do?

A. As far as I know, yes.

Q. Okay. So there was nothing wrong with me asking for my

personnel records, was there?

A. No.

Q. Okay. And then I came in, correct, and I asked you to

sign a request -- acknowledgment that I made the request,

correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And did you sign it?

A. Not immediately.

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Q. Okay. So you actually refused to sign it immediately,

correct?

A. I did.

Q. Okay. And then what happened right after that?

A. You left the room.

Q. Okay. Where did I go?

A. I don't know.

Q. Well, didn't you come into my classroom right after that?

A. Several minutes later, yes.

Q. Okay. So between then and at least several minutes later

I'm back in my classroom, right?

A. Yes.

Q. Was I teaching my class?

A. It appeared so, yes.

Q. Okay. And what were you doing in the room?

A. I entered the room because I wanted to give you the

acknowledgment of receipt that you had asked me to sign.

Q. Well, just a couple minutes before that, you wouldn't sign

it. Why did you all of a sudden decide to sign it then?

A. Because it was accompanied by a letter I hadn't had a

chance to read or digest, and I was unwilling to sign something

that I didn't agree to.

Q. I was just asking you for the personnel file. That's all

that acknowledgment was, right?

A. No.

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Q. What was it?

A. There was a letter that accompanied it that had --

Q. Well, the --

A. -- several perhaps.

Q. -- thing --

THE COURT: Again, don't interrupt. He's in the

middle of explaining.

MR. VUKADINOVICH: Okay.


Q. Could you have had somebody else deliver that to me, that

envelope that you brought into the room?

A. Yes.

Q. All right. Could you have had the secretary do that?

A. Yes.

Q. Could you have had a number of people do that?

A. Um --

Q. There's a lot of staff people isn't there, secretaries and

so forth?

A. No, there aren't.

Q. There's a middle school secretary, isn't there?

A. Yes, there is a middle school secretary.

Q. You had a secretary, correct?

A. I did.

Q. Was there an assistant principal?

A. Yes.

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Q. Okay. Are there guidance counselors? There's a lot of

people there, correct?

A. I wouldn't characterize it as a lot.

Q. Now, could you have put that in my mailbox?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And could you have waited until the school day

ended so it didn't have to be in my classroom in front of my

students? Could you have done that?

A. Yes.

Q. But you chose instead to come right into the classroom in

front of all the students and then we had that situation,

correct?

A. Yes.

Q. That was your decision, correct?

A. It was.

Q. Okay. Was I terminated because of some kind of CTE

classes situation?

A. I don't understand.

Q. Well, we've been hearing -- you've been hearing a lot

about CTE classes in here, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. In fact, your lawyer just asked you a lot of questions

about CTE classes, right?

A. Yes.

Q. What did that have to do with my classes?

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A. One of the main reasons your classes were discontinued is

because they didn't fit with the career vision that the

superintendent had.

Q. Did you tell me when I was notified that I was gonna lose

my job that my classes didn't fit the superintendent's career

vision?

A. No.

Q. Okay. So that's -- has that ever been stated before in my

termination proceeding, that my classes were canceled because

they didn't fit the superintendent's career vision?

A. No.

Q. Now, you came back the following school year, correct?

A. I did.

Q. All right. Were there any classes going on in the shop

area?

A. I believe there were. Mr. Smith's Project Lead the Way

class, I believe, used your room.

Q. Were there any CTE classes in my former classroom?

A. Project Lead the Way is Career and Technical Education.

Q. He was already there, wasn't he?

A. In your classroom?

Q. Mr. Smith was already a teacher in the building, so it

wouldn't be a new class. He was already there, correct?

A. He was already there, yes.

Q. So it wouldn't be new. He was already there, right?

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A. That's correct.

Q. Okay. So after my classes were canceled because of this

vision we're hearing right now, did the corporation then add

CTE classes and put them in my classroom?

A. There was a building trades class that used that area.

Q. There was a building trades class anyway, correct?

A. That's true.

Q. Right?

A. Yes, that's correct.

Q. Okay. So is the answer to the question there was no CTE

classes added at all?

A. No, there were CTE classes added.

Q. In replacement of my classes?

A. It is hard to say what did or didn't replace or -- or

didn't replace your class.

Q. Are there any other classes at the school that were not

the English classes and the math classes that are electives,

correct? There are a lot of them aren't there?

A. I don't understand your question.

Q. Well, we have English classes and math classes and science

classes that must be -- take place, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And we have other classes that are called electives that,

you know, students get to choose, correct?

A. Yes.

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JUSTIN BIGGS- CROSS

Q. Okay. So did any of those classes get canceled?

A. I don't understand which classes you're asking.

Q. Other than me, did you have any other teachers' classes

under your supervision that -- any full-time teacher, did you

cancel any other teacher's classes where that teacher had to

lose their job, cancel the classes on a full-time teacher other

than me?

A. Sir, there's many parts to that question. I don't

understand.

Q. Did you have any other teacher terminated for CTE class

reasons other than me?

A. I disagree with a component of your question.

Q. Did you have any other full-time teachers terminated other

than me?

A. When you say, did you have any teachers at all terminated,

my answer is no.

Q. Okay. Did you make a decision to have any other full-time

teachers terminated other than me?

A. No.

Q. And you came back the following school year, correct?

A. Yes, but again --

Q. Did you the following school year make a decision to have

any other full-time teachers reduced in force as you did me?

MS. BUGALLA: Your Honor, I'm going to object. I

don't think the following school year is relevant.

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JUSTIN BIGGS- CROSS

THE COURT: Sustained.


Q. Now, was Mr. -- we've heard about Mr. --

THE COURT: I'm gonna interrupt you at this point.

It is 12:30, and I want to make sure these folks get a chance

to eat lunch.


THE COURT: Were you going to say something?

MR. VUKADINOVICH: Your Honor, I'm gonna be done in

about 10 minutes if you want to wait, but I'll be done in 10

minutes.

THE COURT: I'm not rushing you.

MR. VUKADINOVICH: I understand.

THE COURT: Why don't we then get -- have you finish

then.



Q. Now, Mr. Smith here, did you put him in the -- we heard

about PLATO yesterday. Do you remember that?

A. Yes.

Q. And did Mr. Smith then have PLATO classes?

A. I don't recall, but I believe he did have some students

working on PLATO while he was in his classroom.

Q. Okay. While he was teaching another class, correct?

A. I don't recall.

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JUSTIN BIGGS- CROSS

Q. Okay. Well, is it possible that he had the PLATO classes

going on at the same time as he was teaching a regular class?

A. PLATO is a support to regular classroom instruction, and

so it could very well be that there were some students working

on PLATO at the very same subject at the very same time that he

was instructing individually other students, that's what the --

Q. Or another class?

A. Not necessarily.

Q. But did he have two classes going on at the same time?

A. I don't recall.

Q. Is it possible that he did?

A. As I said.

Q. Okay. Were there other teachers under your supervision

that had student classes with, I'll say -- I'll use the number

10 -- with 10 students or less in those classes?

A. I don't recall.

MR. VUKADINOVICH: I promise, Your Honor, just a

couple more.

THE COURT: You're doing fine. I'm not pushing you.


Q. This is No. 98 which has been previously admitted. Is

that an e-mail involving you?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And then are you telling the person, Dana Bogathy,

there are 12 students in this particular class?

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JUSTIN BIGGS- CROSS

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Now, did that particular teacher lose her job for

student counts, enrollment?

A. No.

MS. BUGALLA: What is the exhibit number?

THE COURT: What's the exhibit number, the one on the

screen?

MS. BUGALLA: No, no, the one you have on now.

MR. VUKADINOVICH: That's Defendant's Exhibit N. N,

the one that's on the screen, and it has been previously

admitted.


Q. It is a thick document. We are going to look a little bit

on the first page here.

Now, are there classes on there with students with one in

the class?

A. There is one.

Q. And is there one with 11 in the class?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. So is it fair to say -- I don't want to go through

all of them. Is it fair to say there were several teachers

that had students with 10 or less in the classes?

A. No.

Q. It is not?

A. No.

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JUSTIN BIGGS- CROSS

Q. I'm just gonna turn the page here. This is the same

document. Okay. Are there -- take a look on the right side

there. Are there four classes there with nine students in

them?

A. I can't count, but there's some that are combined sections

such as the AP Calculus; that's a class that was taught at the

same time by the same teacher. It is AP Calculus, but it is

also a dual credit class. It is the identical course but

characterized in a different way for dual credit purposes.

Q. Real simple question. Was there nine students in the

class?

A. Not that class, no.

Q. Well, are there some classes on there with nine students

with them?

A. Yes, there's one.

Q. Did those teachers get fired?

A. That teacher did not.

Q. Did you hear Mr. Sakelaris testify earlier today that the

Board packet stated that the reason for the termination was my

student class enrollments?

A. Can you repeat your question, please.

Q. Did you hear Mr. Sakelaris testify today that he received

the Board packet from Superintendent Kaiser, and it stated that

the reason was student enrollment numbers in my classes?

A. I can't guess.

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JUSTIN BIGGS- CROSS

Q. Okay. I'm not asking you to guess. I mean, you don't

remember if he said that?

A. I heard his testimony. I can't repeat it verbatim for

you.

Q. Okay. Do you remember what he testified to as to what the

reason was?

THE COURT: This is not an appropriate line of

inquiry. It is for the jury to decide --


THE COURT: -- what another witness testified to.

You are just asking him to recall that, and it is not an

appropriate line.

MR. VUKADINOVICH: Yes, Your Honor. Just let me take

a look at my notes here, and I'm gonna finish.


Q. Now, are you an authority on teacher licensing?

A. I don't know what you mean.

Q. Well, are you -- have you had special training to

determine what license -- if a person is qualified for a

license or not qualified for a particular license? Are you an

authority on that?

A. Those are two questions so --

Q. Are you an authority on Indiana public school teacher

licenses?

A. I don't know what you mean by "authority."

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JUSTIN BIGGS- CROSS

Q. Well, are you a person that's been trained to -- for

example, could you work for the Indiana Department of Education

and be a licensing expert for them?

A. I don't know.

Q. Okay. Now, you talked about my license with graphic arts.

Do you know if I have a license for graphic arts?

A. Yes, your license is industrial arts, graphic arts.

Q. Graphic arts, correct?

A. That's correct.

MR. VUKADINOVICH: That's all, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Do you have any follow-up?

MS. BUGALLA: Nothing, Your Honor.

THE COURT: All right. Sir, thank you. You may step

down.

We're gonna take our lunch recess at this time.

* * *

(End of requested transcript.)

CERTIFICATE

I, Stacy L. Drohosky, certify that the foregoing is a

correct transcript from the record of proceedings in the

above-entitled matter.

Date: March 31, 2016 S/Stacy L. Drohosky S/STACY L. DROHOSKY Court Reporter U.S. District Court

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BY MR. VUKADINOVICH: [12] 15/15 21/19 21/23 22/10 28/20 30/21 40/8 45/1 45/16 46/19 47/11 49/14 BY MS. BUGALLA: [5] 2/14 7/15 9/24 11/4 12/4 DEPUTY CLERK: [3] 21/13 21/15 21/17 MR. CUNNINGHAM: [3] 20/24 21/4 21/9 MR. VUKADINOVICH: [22] 9/18 10/25 11/15 15/13 21/1 21/5 21/10 21/16 21/18 22/3 28/17 30/19 40/7 45/6 45/8 45/12 45/15 46/16 47/8 49/8 49/12 50/9 MS. BUGALLA: [17] 2/9 7/12 7/14 9/12 9/22 10/18 10/21 11/2 11/19 12/1 15/7 15/10 22/5 44/23 47/4 47/7 50/11 THE COURT: [35] 2/2 2/10 7/11 7/13 9/17 9/19 10/20 10/22 11/3 11/14 11/18 11/23 12/2 15/9 15/12 21/2 21/8 21/12 21/14 21/22 22/6 28/19 30/20 40/5 44/25 45/3 45/7 45/11 45/13 46/18 47/5 49/6 49/9 50/10 50/12 THE WITNESS: [1] 21/6

''cause [1] 19/10

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2201 [1] 1/172012 [13] 3/11 3/24 11/13 11/23 13/4 14/2 14/22 15/20 15/24 23/7 23/8 24/6 29/82012-2013 [6] 7/6 8/14 8/22 9/1 11/18 13/82013 [6] 7/6 8/14 8/22 9/1 11/18 13/82014 [2] 11/8 11/162016 [2] 1/7 50/22219 [2] 1/13 1/2322 [2] 17/14 34/8237-3800 [1] 1/1923rd [1] 34/724 [1] 33/62462 [1] 1/1325 [2] 23/7 24/62:13-CV-144 [1] 1/42D [1] 8/23

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Ffact [2] 3/18 41/22fail [1] 6/15failed [6] 23/14 30/12 30/15 30/23 31/6 32/2failing [1] 24/8fair [5] 9/18 34/19 37/5 47/20 47/21familiar [1] 11/10far [4] 14/3 14/23 35/16 38/16FCRR [1] 1/21February [1] 16/5Federal [1] 1/22few [2] 2/18 29/18field [1] 8/8file [2] 38/11 39/23final [2] 5/20 5/23fine [2] 8/22 46/19finish [2] 45/14 49/14fired [1] 48/16first [2] 31/25 47/14fit [3] 42/2 42/5 42/10five [1] 19/2folks [1] 45/5follow [1] 50/11follow-up [1] 50/11following [7] 2/1 11/17 19/14 42/12 44/20 44/22 44/25force [1] 44/23foregoing [1] 50/19former [1] 42/18forth [3] 22/22 38/11 40/18forward [1] 2/11foundation [3] 11/4 11/24 12/4four [1] 48/3frame [1] 11/1Friday [2] 31/16 31/18front [5] 11/13 11/21 12/11 41/7 41/11Frost [1] 1/17frustrated [8] 23/17 23/24 23/25 24/12 24/21 25/6 25/9 26/5full [5] 44/4 44/6 44/13 44/17 44/23full-time [5] 44/4 44/6 44/13 44/17 44/23funding [3] 10/17 12/8 13/8further [1] 12/4

Ggave [2] 6/20 20/5gentlemen [1] 2/4given [6] 5/20 6/7 6/10 6/13 14/17 35/24gone [1] 35/19gotten [1] 32/17graphic [7] 8/19 8/20 9/6 50/5 50/6 50/7 50/8guess [9] 16/4 18/11 28/13 29/17 29/21 29/23 29/24 48/25 49/1guidance [1] 41/1guilty [1] 37/10guys [1] 21/3

Hhadn't [2] 36/1 39/20half [1] 22/14HAMMOND [3] 1/2 1/23 3/4handed [1] 2/19handing [1] 2/25hands [1] 8/16handwriting [1] 36/22HANOVER [2] 1/5 11/9happen [1] 37/5happened [15] 17/3 17/5 19/24 22/17 22/20 22/23 26/6 26/11 26/23 27/8 28/1 29/4 32/4 37/5 39/4happening [2] 22/25 36/2harangue [1] 25/20harass [1] 4/11harassed [1] 4/9harassing [1] 5/7harassment [3] 25/21 25/22 26/7hard [3] 18/11 27/14 43/14have [75] having [3] 27/10 29/8 30/7hear [2] 48/18 48/22heard [5] 2/4 12/6 45/3 45/18 49/3hearing [5] 12/8 12/21 41/19 41/19 43/3hey [3] 18/6 27/3 29/19high [6] 9/1 9/3 12/7 12/11 13/16 15/3himself [1] 26/11Honor [15] 9/14 9/19 10/19 11/16 15/8 21/11 21/22 22/5 30/20 44/24 45/9 46/17 49/13 50/10 50/12HONORABLE [1] 1/7hours [1] 25/16huh [1] 17/13

II'd [2] 2/18 12/10I'll [6] 7/23 11/3 22/7 45/10 46/14 46/14I'm [39] 7/13 7/19 7/19 7/25 8/16 9/8 9/11 9/23 12/3 13/24 15/22 17/7 17/22 18/13 21/5 21/6 21/21 22/12 22/19 26/1 26/1 27/10 27/13 27/24 28/9 28/19 29/5 29/24 32/6 35/19 39/11 44/24 45/4 45/9 45/12 46/19 48/1 49/1 49/14I've [1] 36/14identical [1] 48/8identify [3] 21/25 23/15 24/20ignore [1] 24/5ignoring [1] 24/8Illinois [1] 1/17immediately [3] 5/13 38/25 39/1impeachment [1] 9/13imperative [2] 23/21 24/13implies [1] 28/14important [3] 6/9 23/21 24/5

inappropriately [1] 4/10incident [12] 4/19 17/12 17/12 18/16 18/18 18/18 22/22 27/9 27/11 27/12 28/1 36/25included [1] 9/14incomplete [1] 9/16INDIANA [9] 1/1 1/13 1/18 1/23 8/4 10/7 14/5 49/23 50/2Indianapolis [1] 1/18indicate [1] 13/7individually [1] 46/6industrial [1] 50/7information [20] 4/13 4/22 5/25 6/3 11/22 13/2 13/3 13/7 13/24 14/2 14/21 14/22 15/5 24/6 24/8 26/3 26/10 26/16 27/19 27/20initial [1] 35/25inquire [1] 6/7inquiry [1] 49/8instead [2] 32/22 41/10instructing [1] 46/6instruction [1] 46/3insubordinate [6] 33/8 33/11 33/15 33/19 33/21 33/22intent [2] 5/5 5/7interrupt [2] 40/6 45/4interruption [2] 4/15 6/23Intro [3] 13/19 14/4 14/16investigate [2] 36/25 37/17involved [1] 20/22involving [1] 46/22isn't [5] 14/7 31/20 31/22 40/17 40/20issue [8] 17/7 17/9 25/14 28/6 28/10 28/12 28/15 34/10issued [2] 8/7 10/7issues [1] 10/9

JJane [1] 22/3January [1] 16/5job [6] 23/10 23/19 32/19 42/5 44/6 47/2July [1] 31/4June [6] 3/24 4/10 5/19 6/6 34/12 34/16June 11 [1] 3/24June 7 [3] 4/10 5/19 6/6June 7th [2] 34/12 34/16jury [1] 49/8JUSTIN [5] 1/6 2/2 2/10 2/13 23/8

KKaiser [18] 5/4 15/2 22/3 29/3 29/7 29/10 29/18 29/24 30/11 30/14 30/23 31/5 31/25 32/2 33/7 33/10 33/18 48/23keep [1] 27/14keeps [1] 8/18kept [1] 30/10knowledge [1] 11/12

LLadies [1] 2/4Landis [1] 34/1last [6] 10/21 14/13 34/13 35/9 35/16 36/21lasts [1] 35/3later [2] 39/9 39/10lawsuit [5] 3/4 3/6 3/9 3/12 3/18lawyer [1] 41/22lay [2] 8/16 11/4Lead [2] 42/16 42/19

Lleast [3] 17/15 19/10 39/10leave [1] 5/13less [2] 46/15 47/22let [3] 7/8 21/9 49/13let's [4] 8/21 17/2 17/9 25/12letter [6] 2/25 9/17 24/1 35/24 39/20 40/2library [6] 16/22 18/9 18/16 18/17 30/11 30/13license [8] 8/11 10/14 49/19 49/20 49/20 50/5 50/6 50/7licensed [2] 8/23 9/1licenses [1] 49/24licensing [3] 10/18 49/16 50/3light [2] 23/19 26/6line [3] 17/25 49/7 49/12list [3] 7/22 10/13 14/8listed [1] 9/14listen [1] 27/3little [1] 47/13LLC [1] 1/17log [9] 33/8 33/10 33/13 33/15 33/18 33/21 33/22 33/23 33/25looked [1] 7/6looking [9] 7/20 7/25 10/2 12/15 12/23 13/2 13/18 13/24 14/21Looks [1] 10/5lose [3] 42/4 44/6 47/2loss [1] 7/1lots [1] 35/5lunch [2] 45/6 50/15

Mmail [41] 18/6 18/22 18/23 19/15 19/21 20/5 20/9 20/9 20/12 20/16 20/18 20/19 22/2 22/13 22/21 22/25 23/7 23/7 23/10 23/14 23/16 23/18 23/20 23/21 23/23 24/3 24/4 24/6 24/8 24/10 24/12 25/10 26/2 27/15 29/24 30/11 30/14 33/14 33/25 34/7 46/22mailbox [1] 41/4mailed [1] 29/18main [1] 42/1makes [3] 11/24 31/24 35/14making [2] 4/2 26/16man [1] 3/21manufacturing [5] 12/12 13/19 13/25 14/4 15/4many [11] 10/4 16/1 16/10 16/19 17/19 17/20 17/25 18/25 19/8 27/13 44/8March [3] 1/7 16/6 50/22mark [1] 10/23marked [2] 9/17 22/9MARSHA [1] 1/16master [2] 7/24 8/17math [2] 43/17 43/20matter [1] 50/21matters [1] 24/1May 11 [5] 5/4 29/4 29/8 29/11 29/16May 2 [12] 2/19 3/11 3/23 3/24 4/10 15/18 16/10 17/20 18/1 32/4 35/23 38/8May 22 [1] 17/14May 23rd [1] 34/7May 24 [1] 33/6May 25 [2] 23/7 24/6May 8 [2] 38/7 38/9means [2] 34/24 34/25measures [1] 26/2meet [1] 6/17

meeting [45] 5/4 5/5 5/15 6/19 15/21 15/23 16/8 16/11 16/15 17/14 18/7 18/15 18/17 19/5 19/6 19/8 19/19 20/6 22/18 22/20 26/19 26/20 26/23 26/25 28/25 29/7 29/16 29/16 29/19 29/25 30/3 30/5 30/12 30/13 30/16 30/24 31/6 32/2 32/6 32/22 34/5 34/11 34/13 36/12 36/16meetings [2] 6/22 17/25members [4] 19/14 19/16 27/23 27/24memory [1] 12/7mentioned [1] 3/8message [7] 18/22 19/15 20/19 22/2 23/2 23/3 33/14messages [2] 25/21 25/22met [5] 2/19 5/19 6/3 6/6 6/12middle [5] 9/3 9/7 40/7 40/20 40/21minute [1] 22/14minutes [6] 35/16 39/9 39/10 39/18 45/10 45/11moment [2] 7/23 15/11money [1] 3/13months [6] 16/1 16/2 16/6 16/7 31/2 31/3morning [1] 31/8move [2] 10/19 22/4Mr [17] 2/11 2/16 10/2 12/6 15/12 22/12 22/21 23/11 23/14 23/16 23/23 24/1 24/3 24/10 24/12 45/3 45/3Mr. [37] 2/6 2/19 3/8 3/11 4/4 4/9 5/1 5/8 5/15 6/22 7/4 7/17 7/25 8/1 8/3 8/10 8/13 8/18 9/15 9/21 12/6 12/7 12/11 12/20 13/15 15/3 15/13 23/8 34/1 34/1 35/12 42/16 42/22 45/18 45/21 48/18 48/22Mr. Bachinski [1] 35/12Mr. Brooks [3] 12/6 12/20 34/1Mr. Justin [1] 23/8Mr. Landis [1] 34/1Mr. Sakelaris [2] 48/18 48/22Mr. Smith [3] 42/22 45/18 45/21Mr. Smith's [1] 42/16Mr. Spencer [3] 7/25 8/3 8/13Mr. Spencer's [1] 7/17Mr. Vukadinovich [15] 2/6 2/19 3/8 3/11 4/9 5/1 5/8 5/15 6/22 7/4 8/10 8/18 9/15 9/21 15/13Mr. Vukadinovich's [5] 4/4 12/7 12/11 13/15 15/3Mr. Yurechko [1] 8/1Mrs. [1] 23/6Mrs. Cress [1] 23/6Ms [15] 5/4 15/2 29/3 29/7 29/10 29/18 29/24 30/11 30/14 30/23 31/5 31/25 33/7 33/10 33/18Ms. [5] 2/9 22/3 22/17 23/1 32/2Ms. Biggs [1] 23/1Ms. Bugalla [1] 2/9Ms. Cress [1] 22/17Ms. Kaiser [2] 22/3 32/2much [1] 36/22

Nnames [4] 23/24 24/11 24/23 24/25narrow [1] 31/2necessarily [2] 34/17 46/8need [6] 15/8 25/14 29/16 29/19 29/25 30/3needed [1] 10/14needn't [2] 25/15 25/18

never [1] 16/7new [2] 42/23 42/25nine [3] 48/3 48/10 48/13Noel [1] 21/13North [1] 1/17NORTHERN [1] 1/1notes [1] 49/14nothing [3] 16/8 38/17 50/12notified [1] 42/4November [1] 16/5number [13] 7/12 9/17 10/21 12/17 13/20 13/22 14/17 14/19 34/17 40/15 46/14 47/5 47/6numbers [1] 48/24

Ooath [1] 2/12object [1] 44/24objection [3] 10/25 11/15 22/6observation [5] 35/1 35/2 35/3 35/13 35/14observe [2] 34/24 35/11observed [8] 34/22 34/23 34/25 35/9 36/3 36/7 36/9 36/10observing [1] 35/4occurred [1] 37/17October [1] 16/5off [1] 10/6office [3] 28/23 28/25 35/25official [7] 1/21 33/23 35/1 35/15 35/15 36/18 38/2old [1] 3/21open [1] 21/3opine [1] 12/6opinion [1] 37/10opportunity [1] 2/7

PP.O [1] 1/18packet [2] 48/19 48/23page [4] 9/23 14/14 47/14 48/1pages [1] 10/4paper [2] 5/23 6/24part [1] 10/10particular [8] 8/7 11/25 31/5 34/15 35/4 46/25 47/2 49/20particularly [1] 19/3parts [2] 20/3 44/8patiences [1] 2/5pay [1] 7/1pencil [2] 5/22 6/24perhaps [1] 40/4person [18] 19/15 19/18 19/21 20/1 20/8 20/12 23/11 23/12 23/13 23/22 24/3 24/10 25/10 26/4 26/10 46/24 49/19 50/1personnel [3] 38/11 38/18 39/23PHILIP [1] 1/7phone [1] 30/2place [2] 17/18 43/21PLAINTIFF [1] 1/11Plaintiff's [2] 9/15 22/9PLATO [6] 45/19 45/21 45/23 46/1 46/3 46/5Plaza [1] 1/22pleasant [4] 26/21 26/24 27/2 27/4point [7] 12/4 15/9 30/11 30/15 30/23 32/21 45/4policy [5] 37/2 37/2 37/19 38/1 38/2portion [1] 9/14

Pposition [1] 11/9possible [3] 29/14 46/1 46/11possibly [1] 21/1post [1] 35/2post-observation [1] 35/2preliminary [1] 2/20present [1] 2/7presentations [4] 17/17 17/19 17/20 17/25pretty [1] 36/22previous [1] 29/15previously [5] 7/10 8/17 22/9 46/21 47/10principal [2] 11/9 40/24print [1] 10/5prior [2] 38/10 38/10problem [4] 18/7 24/2 34/4 38/1procedure [3] 16/25 17/2 17/7proceed [1] 2/9proceeding [2] 38/13 42/9proceedings [2] 1/24 50/20process [1] 36/24produced [1] 1/24professionalism [2] 24/4 24/7Project [2] 42/16 42/19promise [1] 46/17promptly [1] 24/13provide [2] 24/13 27/19provoked [1] 25/20public [1] 49/23purpose [4] 6/19 36/20 36/21 36/24purposes [1] 48/9pushing [1] 46/19

Qqualified [6] 12/8 14/5 14/24 15/4 49/19 49/20question [16] 15/22 18/8 19/20 20/3 20/10 21/7 23/15 27/10 35/7 37/6 43/10 43/19 44/8 44/12 48/10 48/21questions [10] 22/21 22/24 24/14 24/16 24/18 27/1 27/13 29/5 41/22 49/22quiet [1] 21/4quite [1] 3/25

Rread [7] 23/4 23/5 23/6 25/12 25/23 35/24 39/21reading [1] 7/19Real [1] 48/10really [1] 24/7reason [3] 48/19 48/24 49/6reasons [2] 42/1 44/11recall [24] 5/16 16/20 17/14 19/7 19/9 19/12 19/17 20/24 21/8 27/25 28/2 29/12 30/19 31/10 33/5 33/9 34/6 34/14 37/3 45/22 45/25 46/10 46/16 49/11receipt [1] 39/17received [2] 5/25 48/22recess [1] 50/15record [2] 7/14 50/20records [2] 38/11 38/18reduced [1] 44/23referred [2] 23/16 24/10referring [2] 3/12 23/23refused [1] 39/1regarding [4] 6/22 6/23 6/23 23/7regular [2] 46/2 46/3Related [1] 38/13

relating [1] 34/10relevant [4] 11/2 11/18 11/25 44/25repeat [5] 15/22 18/8 22/19 48/21 49/3repercussions [1] 3/14replace [2] 43/14 43/15replacement [1] 43/13report [1] 37/1reported [1] 1/24Reporter [3] 1/21 1/21 50/24request [3] 24/5 38/21 38/21requested [1] 50/17respond [5] 24/8 25/15 25/17 25/18 25/19response [2] 11/19 25/20responsibility [1] 4/24rested [1] 2/6resulted [2] 23/9 23/18revised [1] 11/7room [8] 4/10 32/14 36/17 39/5 39/15 39/16 40/11 42/17roughly [2] 16/3 19/1routinely [1] 10/10RPR [1] 1/21ruckus [3] 25/11 26/4 26/23rude [4] 4/17 4/19 5/2 5/17rushing [1] 45/12Ryan [2] 7/5 7/6

SS/Stacy [2] 50/23 50/23Sakelaris [2] 48/18 48/22saved [1] 3/13saying [3] 8/18 9/7 37/22says [3] 9/6 10/4 34/1schedule [2] 7/24 8/17scheduled [1] 8/22school [35] 1/5 9/1 9/3 9/4 9/7 11/17 12/7 12/11 13/16 15/3 16/2 17/18 18/25 19/3 32/1 34/13 34/14 34/17 34/18 34/20 35/9 36/5 36/7 36/9 36/12 36/22 40/20 40/21 41/6 42/12 43/16 44/20 44/22 44/25 49/23science [1] 43/20screen [2] 47/7 47/10seated [1] 2/3second [2] 10/24 30/20seconds [1] 35/3secretaries [1] 40/17secretary [4] 40/13 40/20 40/21 40/22sections [1] 48/5seek [1] 4/22sense [1] 31/24sent [4] 19/21 22/21 23/6 23/7September [1] 16/5serious [1] 23/17settlement [1] 3/4several [5] 19/14 39/9 39/10 40/4 47/21severe [2] 23/9 23/18shop [1] 42/14show [12] 7/8 9/11 9/20 10/18 18/19 21/21 30/12 30/15 30/24 31/6 32/2 32/19side [2] 18/18 48/2sign [7] 38/21 38/24 39/1 39/17 39/18 39/19 39/21SIMON [1] 1/7simple [1] 48/10Since [1] 23/25sir [5] 2/12 20/10 35/7 44/8 50/13situation [2] 41/11 41/17

Smith [3] 42/22 45/18 45/21Smith's [1] 42/16somebody [2] 26/15 40/10someone [2] 4/20 8/7sometime [1] 28/3Somewhat [1] 9/8somewhere [4] 17/15 34/16 34/19 36/12sort [1] 9/6sound [1] 35/14speaker [1] 4/20special [6] 4/20 6/23 17/7 17/9 34/11 49/18specialist [3] 8/3 8/6 8/10specific [2] 8/21 9/9Spencer [3] 7/25 8/3 8/13Spencer's [3] 7/5 7/6 7/17spoken [1] 2/20spot [1] 35/25Stacy [4] 1/21 50/19 50/23 50/23staff [7] 19/14 19/16 27/23 27/24 30/12 32/22 40/17start [1] 34/18started [1] 16/4state [14] 8/4 13/11 13/13 14/5 14/24 23/11 23/13 23/22 24/9 24/11 24/24 24/25 25/4 28/8State's [1] 15/5stated [10] 7/4 23/4 23/19 23/25 24/12 28/5 33/20 42/8 48/19 48/23statement [1] 28/13statements [1] 23/9STATES [3] 1/1 1/8 1/22stenotype [1] 1/24step [1] 50/13Street [1] 1/17student [5] 35/4 46/14 47/3 48/20 48/24students [16] 6/9 32/15 32/16 41/8 41/11 43/24 45/22 46/4 46/6 46/15 46/25 47/15 47/22 48/3 48/10 48/13subject [2] 12/4 46/5subtracted [1] 7/21such [8] 3/6 3/8 3/24 4/3 6/7 6/10 6/13 48/6sudden [1] 39/19suffer [1] 7/1sufficient [1] 33/25Suite [2] 1/17 1/22superintendent [3] 3/1 42/3 48/23superintendent's [4] 28/22 28/25 42/5 42/10supervised [1] 31/17supervising [3] 31/18 32/6 32/25supervision [5] 31/8 31/11 31/12 44/4 46/13supervisor [4] 31/21 31/23 32/11 32/12supervisors [1] 31/19supply [1] 24/23support [1] 46/3supposed [2] 5/10 30/16supposedly [1] 28/1suspended [1] 7/1Sustained [1] 45/1SWORN [1] 2/13systems [6] 12/13 12/16 12/24 13/3 13/10 14/4

Ttalk [4] 20/14 21/4 24/3 29/10talked [1] 50/5

Ttalking [7] 18/10 18/16 19/22 20/2 20/9 21/3 29/3taught [6] 7/5 8/1 8/13 8/14 8/21 48/6teach [6] 8/18 8/23 9/1 9/6 9/7 10/14teacher [11] 6/12 42/22 44/4 44/5 44/6 44/10 47/2 48/7 48/17 49/16 49/23teacher's [1] 44/5teachers [20] 5/22 6/10 6/15 18/25 19/11 23/15 23/24 23/25 24/11 24/20 25/6 25/9 26/5 44/13 44/15 44/18 44/23 46/13 47/21 48/16teachers' [1] 44/3teaching [4] 10/6 39/13 45/24 46/2Technical [1] 42/19telling [3] 26/1 33/10 46/24tendered [1] 9/22terminated [6] 35/17 41/16 44/10 44/13 44/15 44/18termination [4] 11/17 38/13 42/9 48/19test [1] 6/24testified [9] 7/11 8/6 8/17 11/20 15/2 15/17 24/15 49/5 49/10testify [2] 48/18 48/22testimony [6] 1/6 2/1 2/17 12/19 15/5 49/3testing [6] 16/25 17/2 17/7 37/2 37/18 38/1thick [1] 47/13Thirty [1] 19/2Thirty-five [1] 19/2though [2] 25/14 32/4thought [1] 12/7threat [2] 23/10 23/18through [3] 2/16 35/3 47/20times [5] 16/10 16/12 16/13 16/19 35/1title [2] 10/4 10/13Todd [1] 1/17top [2] 10/4 25/12toward [1] 2/23towards [2] 34/20 36/12trades [2] 43/5 43/6trained [1] 50/1training [1] 49/18transcript [6] 1/6 1/24 2/1 35/2 50/17 50/20transcription [1] 1/25transportation [3] 12/12 14/16 15/3trial [1] 2/12tried [1] 25/15trouble [3] 27/10 32/17 32/20true [3] 8/19 9/3 43/7truth [1] 27/8trying [2] 4/13 27/13turn [1] 48/1two [7] 29/5 31/2 31/20 31/22 35/16 46/9 49/22type [1] 22/23

UU.S [1] 50/24Uh [1] 17/13Uh-huh [1] 17/13Um [1] 40/16under [4] 2/12 32/11 44/4 46/13UNITED [3] 1/1 1/8 1/22unwilling [1] 39/21used [2] 42/17 43/5

Vvaries [1] 34/14verbatim [2] 23/1 49/3violated [2] 37/2 37/18vision [4] 42/2 42/6 42/10 43/3VOLK [1] 1/16voted [1] 4/3VUKADINOVICH [17] 1/3 1/12 2/6 2/19 3/8 3/11 4/9 5/1 5/8 5/15 6/22 7/4 8/10 8/18 9/15 9/21 15/13Vukadinovich's [5] 4/4 12/7 12/11 13/15 15/3

Wwait [1] 45/10waited [1] 41/6walk [1] 35/3walk-through [1] 35/3walked [1] 29/7wall [1] 36/23ways [1] 35/5week [5] 31/9 31/15 31/20 34/22 35/9whatever [2] 27/9 37/13Wheatfield [1] 1/13wherein [1] 23/8whether [5] 5/19 6/7 13/7 23/22 24/9wide [1] 19/6Winkoff [1] 22/3word [1] 16/18work [2] 35/4 50/2worked [1] 8/7working [2] 45/23 46/4workplace [3] 8/3 8/6 8/10write [1] 37/1writing [2] 23/2 26/22written [1] 35/1wrong [1] 38/17wrote [4] 20/8 20/12 22/13 23/1

Yyear [15] 11/18 16/2 17/18 32/1 34/13 34/14 34/18 34/20 35/9 36/12 36/22 42/12 44/20 44/22 44/25yesterday [5] 12/6 12/19 25/15 34/7 45/19yours [1] 20/20Yurechko [1] 8/1YY [3] 7/13 7/15 10/22

ZZZ [3] 10/25 11/15 12/3

03-10-16 Justin Biggs Testimony - 2Defendant's Case(1)

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Transcript of 03-10-16 Justin Biggs Testimony - 2Defendant's Case(1)