Download - SuperCharged Podcast...SuperCharged Podcast: Page 1 SuperCharged Podcast Gut microbiome and wellness with Naveen Jain 00:00:30 Meet Naveen Jain 00:01:30 Naveen’s health mission 00:04:00

SuperCharged Podcast:

SuperChargedPodcastGut microbiome and wellness with Naveen Jain

00:00:30 MeetNaveenJain00:01:30 Naveen’shealthmission00:04:00 Whenyourbodyisnotatease,yougetdis-ease00:06:00 Allchronicdiseaseshavethisonethingincommon00:07:20 Theproblemwiththehealthandeducationsystems00:09:40 Thehealthcaresystemisdesignedtokeepyousick00:11:20 Gutmicrobiomeistoblamefordisease,notgenes00:13:20 Researchshowsbreastcancercausedbymicrobiome00:16:15 70%ofourimmunesystemisrightaroundthegut00:17:40 Thereisnosuchthingasauniversalhealthydiet00:22:40Whythesefaddietsarekillingpeople00:23:30 Ourmicrobiomeismoreuniquethanourfingerprint00:32:00 Causativestudiesofthemicrobiome00:37:40 Howourbehaviorisdeterminedbyourmicrobiome00:42:00 Coulditbethatthehumanbodydoesn’treallyexist?00:45:00 UnderstandingwhatViomedoes00:49:30 HowViomewilluseartificialintelligencetohelpsolvehealth

HarryMassey: WelcometotheSuperchargedPodcast,wherewehelpyoutoenhanceyourenergy,health,andpurpose.

WendyMyers: Bioenergeticsistrulythefutureofmedicine.

Harry:[00:00:30]

Imaginehavingabodychargedwithenergyandamindquickaslightning.Isthatasuperhero?No,that'syou,supercharged.We'llbetalkingtoexpertswhohavestudiedthephysicsoflifesothatyoucanhaveenergyforlife.ThankyoufortuningintotheSuperchargedPodcastI'mreallyexcitedtodaybecausewe'reherewithNaveenJain,who'sanentrepreneurandphilanthropist,who'sreallydriventosolvetheworld'sbiggestchallengesthroughinnovation.Althoughhe'sbeenbehindanumberofreallysuccessfulcompaniesliketheWorldInnovationInstitute,Inome,Talentwise,InteliusandViome,thereasonwhyI'mparticularlyexcitedtotalktoNaveentodayisreallybecauseofhisworkwithViomeandbasicallyhowwe'relookingatthebacteriainthegut,whichisalsoactingasacommunicationsystemacrossthebody.WelcomeNaveen,andI'mreallylookingforwardtofindingoutmore.

NaveenJain: ThanksalotHarry.It'sbeenapleasuretobeherewithyouandlookingforwardtoourconversation.


Harry:[00:01:30]

Perfect.Shallwejustgostraightin?Ithinkyourstatedmissionistomakeillnessachoiceforasmuchofhumanityaspossible.I'dlovetoknowwhyisthatyourmissionandhowdidyou,Iguess,comeoutfrombuildingsoftwarecompaniestowantingtosolvetheworld'sbiggesthealthproblems?

Naveen:

Asyoustarttolookatthestuffandsayingforthefirsttimeinthehumanhistory,theindividualsandasmallgroupofpeoplehaveaccesstotechnologythattheyneverhadbefore.Asmallgroupofpeoplearenowcapableofdoingthingsthatonlythenationstatesorsuperpowerscoulddobefore,whetheritisgoingtospace...thatwasconsideredthedomainofnotonlytherichestcountries,butonlythesuperpowerswhocoulddothat.Here,wearesittingheretoday,wherethisraceisbeingexploredbyentrepreneurs.Asyouknow,oneofmyothercompanies,MoonExpress,whichistheonlycompanyintheuniversethathaspermissiontoleaveEarthorbitandlandontheMoon.ImaginewelandontheMoon,notonlynextyear,webecomethefirstcompanytodoso,butmoreimportantlywebecomesymbolicallythenextsuperpower,thefourthsuperpower,tohaveachievedafeat.

Comingbacktoit,itisjustnotthespace.Thatistheliteralmoonshot.MynextMoonshotiswhatifwecanclearaworldwheresicknesswasachoice.ThereasonthatIsaythatisIdidn'tsaythatwecancreateaworldwherenoonewillbesickbecausethatshowsthatpowerliesinmetocreatethatworld.WhatIamtryingtosaythatiswhatifwecanempowereachindividual,tellthemexactlywhatisgoingoninsidetheirbody,becauseweare,toalargeextent,anecosystem,andasIthinkwe'regoingtogetintoit,andhowthisecosystemcommunicatesamongstitselfsothereisnomorecompartmentalizedsubsystemcalledheartandkidneyandliverandyourgut.Theyallworktogetherasonesystemandthey'reconstantlycommunicating.Thereisalwaystheweakestlinkand,asweknow,whenyoustress

[00:04:00] thesystem,italwaysbreaksattheweakestlink.Ourjobistounderstandwhatisgoingoninsidethebody?Finally,wehavethetechnologyatourdisposalthatallowsyoutoseeeverythingthat'shappeninginthebody,andwe'regoingtogetintomoredetailonthat.Notonlybecauseknowingthatisgood,butreallywhatmattersiswhatcanyoudoaboutit?Howdoyoumodulatethecommunication?Howdoyoumodulatetheproductionofdifferentenzymesanddifferentchemicals.

Ifyoucancontrolthat,thenyoucankeepthatbodyworkinginbalance,becauseattheendoftheday,whenyourbodyisinbalance,itisatease,andwhenyourbodyisnotatease,whatwegetisdis-ease,whichisadisease.Ourgoalwastoempowerindividualstomakeachoiceofwhethertheywanttobesickornot.Ican'tmakethatchoiceforthem.

Harry:

Perfect,tosummarizeit,foryoutosolvethishugehealthchallenge,it's,A,helppeoplegettotherootcauseandknowwhat'sgoingonintheirbody,andthenB,educatethemwithwhattodoaboutit.Wouldthatsumitup?

Naveen:

That'smoreorlessyes,buttoalargeextentwhenyoutalkabouttherootcause,I'mnottalkingaboutthatwesomehowhavethesilverbulletandifyoucanfindasilverbullet,everythingwillbefine.Whatwe'rereallysayingisthatallofthechronicdiseasesfundamentallyhaveonethingincommon,whichisthechronic


[00:06:00]

inflammation.WhetherwelookatAlzheimerorautismorParkinson's,youlookatanxietyandyoulookatdepressionorPTSDoryoustarttolookatobesityordiabetesorautoimmunediseasesorevencancer.Theseareallessentiallyinflammatorydiseases.Inflammationhappenswhenourimmunesystemssays,"Idon'tknowwhatisgoingon.Thereissomethingbadgoingon,andonewaytogetridofwhateverthebadthingistoinflamethebodytogetridofthis,theycallforeign-agenttoxins."Intheirmindit'satoxin.Sometimestheystarttobelieveour

owncells...Ourcellsreallyistheonethat'scausingproblem,andthat'swhat'scausedautoimmunedisease.What'sreallyhappeningisifwecanunderstandwhatisinflammation,whatiscausingthatinflammationandifwecanreduceeverythingthat'scausinginflammation,yourbodywillessentiallybeatcalm,ateaseandthatiswe'regoingtohavenodisease.

Harry:

Perfect.Obviously,amassivepartofthatistheneducatingpeoplewithwhattodowiththatknowledge.Oncethey'veidentifiedwhat'sbehindtheinflammation...Ithinkeducationisalsooneofyourotherkeypassions.I'mcurioushowthattiesintoyourhealthmission.HowdoweundothenegativeeducationfromIguessbigpharmaintodoctorsandthepowerofdoctors?Iwascurioushowyou'rethinkingabouttacklingtheactualeducativepartofthismission.

Naveen:[00:07:20]

Ifyoustarttothinkabout,whetheryoulookatthehealthcareandyoulookatoureducationsystem,theyhavelotofsimilaritiesintheminasensethatpeoplebelievethatinneithertheeducationsystemnorthehealthcaresystemisworkingwellforthem.Theybelieveboththesystemsarebroken.Itturnsoutactuallyneitherofthesystemsareactuallybroken.They'redoingexactlywhattheyweredesignedtodoexceptthatourneedstodayareverydifferentthantheneedsthatweretheresay100yearsago.Forexample,oureducationsystemwasdesignedfor

theindustrialera,wherewewantedtocreateacertaintypeofpeople.Thatmeanswewantedthecertainskillsanditwasdesignedtoteachyouskillsandthoseskillscouldbeusedforrestofyourlife.Itwasdesignedessentiallyforplugandplaysystem."Ineedsevenaccountants.Ineed10peoplewithmachineknowledge.Ineedfivecomputerscientists.Ineed10ofthese."Itdidn'tmatterwhothesepeoplewereaslongastheyhadthosesetofskillsthatcouldessentiallybeplugandplayedintothesystem.What’shappeningtodayiswiththewordofexponential

technologies,itdoesn'tmatterwhatskillyoulearn.Itbecomesobsoleteeveryfourtosixyears,soinmanycases,bythetimeyougraduatewiththisskill,thatskillisnolongerneeded.Thatskillhasalreadybecomeobsolete.That'swhywehavethisconceptthatwe'regoingtogetiswhatIcallchronicunemployment.Thatmeanswe'regoingtoconstantlybechronicallyunemployedbecausetheskillsthatwe'relearningarebecomingobsoletefasterthanwecanlearn.Thatmeanstheeducation

systemhastofundamentallychangelearningtolearn,howdoyouapplytheskill?Asopposedtohavingaindividualskill,howdoyouuseinterdisciplinaryknowledgetosolveaparticularproblem?Howdoyoucollaborate?Assumethatalltheknowledge,alltheskillsareonyourfingertips,onyourcellphone,whatwouldyoudonext?Itreallybecomesacompletelydifferentsystem,nothavingasageonthestage,assumetheknowledgeactuallybeingdeliveredtoyouinapersonalizedwaytoyou,thenwhatwouldyoudonext?


Harry: Gotyou.

NaveenJain:[00:09:40]

Thesamethinghappensinthehealthcarenow.Wehavethissageonthestage.Yougetsickandwhenyouaresick,youfeelhelplessandyoufeelhopeless.Guesswhathappens?Anytimeyouarehelpless,somebodyisgoingtovictimizeyou.Today,ourhealthcaresystemdoesagreatjobofvictimizingyou.Wehavethishealthcaresystemthatisdesignedtokeepyousick.Thepharmaceuticalcompanieslovechronicdiseases.ChronicdiseasesmeansnowIhaveasubscriptionbusinessandevenoneoftheCEOforapharmaceuticalcompanysaid,"Thebestdrugthatwedeveloparethedrugsthatpeoplehavetotakeforrestoftheirlives."

ImagineforasecondwhatthispharmaceuticalcompanyCEOissayingis,"Welovekeepingpeoplesick.Wedon'twantthemtobecuredbecauseiftheygetcured,wecan'tmakemoneyfromthem."Wewantthemtobecured.Ourdoctorsdon'twantustobehealthyeitherbecausetheyonlygetpaidwhenwearesickandwegotothem.Ourhospitalswantustobesick.Ourinsurancecompanywantsustobesick.Thewholehealthcaresystemisreallybecomeanorganismwherethesurvivaloftheorganismiswhatmattersandthepurposeisoutthewindow.Thepatienttolargeextentinthissystemhasbecomeanuisancethattheyhavetodealwithjusttocollectthemoney.Theywouldrathernotdealwiththepatientiftheydon'thaveto.Whatourgoalwasforthefirsttime,weactuallyhavetechnologiesthatcantell

youwhatisgoingoninsideyourbodybetterthanthedoctorcaneverknow.Today,tolargeextent,ourmedicalsystem,eventhedoctorswhograduatetoday,aretoldsimply,"Findthesetofsymptom.Ifyoucannameadiseaseafterit,getainsurancecodeforitandthere'syourdrugforit."That'sall."Matchthesymptomtoadiseaseandthenmatchittoadrugandyourjobisdone."Whatsurprisesmemostisthat

[00:11:20]

inthelastthreeyearstofiveyears,everysingleresearchpaperisshowingthateverysinglechronicdisease...YoucanlookatitfromParkinson'stoautismtoAlzheimer,obesity,diabetes,anxiety,depression,autoimmunediseasesorevencancerisnotcausedbyourgenes.It'sactuallycausedbythemicrobiomeinthegut.I'mgoingtocomebackinasecondandgetmoreintoit.Weareawalkingecosystem.Ourmedicalsystembelievesthehealthiestbodyistheonethatisdevoidofallthebacteriaandviruses.Naturehadsomethingelseinmind.

Infact,fromnature'sperspective,thebacteriaandvirusesarearoundforbillionsofyears.Thehumansareverynewtothisecosystem.Thehumansonlyevolvedashominids250,000yearsago.Bacteriaandvirusesbeenaroundandtolargeextent,ifyoulookatitfromtheperspectiveofthenature,wearereallyaportablecontainerforthisecosystem.Theyaretheonesthatareinsidethebody.OurhumanDNAonlyproduces20,000genesandthetrillionsofthesemicroorganismsthatarelargelyinsideourlargecolon,thelargeintestine,thegut,that'swhereallthesetrillionsoforganismsreside.Theyproduce5millionto10milliongenes.

[00:13:20]

Thinkforasecondhere.Weare99%microbialecosystemandlessthan1%human.Tolargeextent,it'swhenyoulookatthedoctorwho'sgraduatingtoday,they'renoteventaughtaboutthemicrobiome.Imaginehereitis,whereeverydiseaseisbeingcausedandinfluencedbythem.Amonthago,therewasaresearchpublishedbytheClevelandClinicthatshowsthatbreastcanceriscausedbythemicrobiome.Theninthelasttwoweeks,intworesearchthatwerepublished,oneclearlyshowswhetherthechemotherapydrugsworksoritactuallykillsthepatientdependson


yourmicrobiomeinyourgut.Immunotherapy,whetherit'santi-PD-1oranti-PL-1drug,whetheritactuallyworksorit'scompletelyuselessdependsonyourmicrobiome.TheydidthisstudyandshowsthatPTSDandOCDoreventhingslike

age-relatedmaculardiseaseormultiplesclerosis.Youpickanameyouwant,everyoneofthediseasesinfluencedbytheseorganismsthatareconstantlycommunicatingwithourbody.Themicrobiomeiscommunicatingwithourmitochondria.MicrobiomeiscommunicatingwithourhumancellsintermsofgeneexpressionbymodifyingthemicroRNAnotonlyinourbody,butalsoinourbrain.

TherewasaveryinterestingresearchthatIfoundthatactuallyshowsthathowourmicrobiomeismodifyingthemicroRNAintheamygdalaandprefrontalcortex.Imaginewhatthatmeans.Thatmeansthey'recontrollingourbehaviorandthey'recontrollingourdecisionmaking.Thenitstarttotellyouwhoisthemasterandwhoistheslavehere.

Harry: Absolutely.Iguessfromatechnologypointofview,whenpeopledotheViometestandtheygetresultsofhowtheycanimprovetheirmicrobiome,howareyouthinkingofeducatingpeopleonallofthehealthyhabitsthat'llhelpthemtobuildupthatmicrobiome?

Naveen:

Actually,it'smorethanmicrobiome,Harry.Whatreallycomesdowntoishowdoyoukeepthebodyinbalanceandwhereallthethingsareworkingproperlyandcommunicatingwelleachother.Alotofthediseaseshappenwhenthere'sacommunicationbreakdown.It'snodifferentthanhumans.Webothmaybedoingtherightthing,butifwearenotcommunicatingwell,webothactuallyendupbecomingtheenemiesbecausethecommunicationbreaksdown.Thesamethinghappensinourbody.WhatwedoatViomeissimplylookatwhatishappeningin

themicrobialecosystems.Wearenotabouttellingyou,"Herearealltheorganismsinyourgut."Welookateverystrainofeverybacteria,everyvirus,yeast,fungusandmold,butthattousjustthebeginning.Thenwelookatthisstuffandsay,"Howactivearethesethings?"Moreimportantly,whataretheyproducing?Whattypeofshort-chainfattyacid?Aretheyproducingtoomuchbutyrate?Aretheynotproducingenoughbutyrate?Aretheyproducingcertainchemicals?"Thesechemicalsarebasicallythesignalingmechanismthatgetabsorbedinthebloodandtheycommunicatewiththerestofthebody?Let'scallourselvesthehost.Wearehostandthey'reourguests.Ourguestsareconstantlycommunicatingintermsofwhattheyareseeing.Ifyoulookatthehumanbody,tosomeextent,wearelikea

[00:16:15]

donut.Wehavethistubethatgoesthroughus.70%ofourimmunesystemisrightaroundthegut.Asweareeatingfood,ourmicrobiomeisanalyzingitandactuallycommunicatingwithourimmunesystem,"Isitafriendorafoe?"It'stellingimmunesystem,"Hey,watchout.I'mgoingtosendyouthesignal,inflamethethingsandstartthekillthesystem.Thisisnogood."Theyareconstantlysymbiotic

relationshipbecausethesemicrobiomewantstokeeptheirplaceinthegut.Anytimetheyseeaparasitethattheybelieveisgoingtotakeovertheirplace,theycallfortheairhelpandsay,"Help,help,sendtheairpower.Sendtheimmunesystem.Killthem.Killthem.Enemy,enemy."Mypointistheyworkreallywelltogether.What'sinterestingismanyoftheneurochemicalsthatweknowoftoday,likeserotonin,mostpeopledon'trealize90%oftheserotoninisactuallyproducedinthegut.Ifyouimaginewhathappenswhenwearedepressed,weeat.Thinkabout


thatforasecond.Wherewe'reanxious,wegetbutterfliesinourstomach.Wedon'tgetthebutterfliesinourhead.Whatdoesyourmothersaywhenyouwereill?"Harry,listentoyourgut.Doyourgutcheck."Mypointisthisissomethingwehaveknownformany,manyyears.WhatsurprisedmewasactuallyIwasjustgoing

[00:17:40] throughthethingsandHippocratessaid2,000yearsago,"Alldiseasesstartinthegut."Thinkaboutthatforasecond.2,000yearsagohesaid,"Alldiseasesstartinthegut."Hesaid,"Oneman'sfoodisanotherman'spoison."Thinkaboutthat.Whathe'ssayingisthereisnosuchthingasuniversalhealthydiet.Afoodwhichis

amedicine,oneperson'smedicine,isotherperson'spoison.Thatmeansadietthat'sgoodforyoumaynotbegoodforme.Adietthat'sgoodformetodaymaynotbegoodformethreemonthsfromnowbecauseasIchangemydiet,what'shappening?It'schangingmymicrobiome.Thatmeanscommunicationisnowchangingandbodyisnowadaptingtoonesetofthings.Whenwe'reeatingonesetofdiet,it'sonlyfeedingonesetofmicrobiomeandit'sstarvingtheothersetofmicrobiome.Guesswhat'shappening.Thatcommunicationisgettingweakerandweakernow.Thatmeansourbodyisoutofbalance.Ifthebodyisoutofbalanceagain,you'regoingtohaveimbalance,uneaseanddisease.Ideaistokeepthiscommunicationofallthemicrobialecosysteminitselfcommunicatingwellincommunicationwiththehostandkeepingeverythinginbalance.

Harry:

BecausethemicrobiomeisbasicallycreatingadiseaseorcreatinghealthandIguess,fromyourviewpoint,youcanchangethemicrobiomeandchangetheoutcome,buthowdoyouknowwhethertoimprovethemicrobiomethatyouhavenowbecausethatmicrobiomemightbesuitedforyouortotryandchangethemicrobiomeforafutureoutcome?

Naveen:

Actually,it'snotassimpleaschangethemicrobiome,changethehealth.Itreallyisaholisticsystemthinginasensethateverythingwedoimpactseachother.Thatmeanstheplaceswelive,thetoxinsweinhale,theGMOfoodweeatandallofthepesticideswe'reeating,that'schangingthemicrobiome,that'schangingthedisease.Ourstressinourbody,thatisnothingtodowithmicrobiome.Stressiscausedbecauseweareunhappyatwork.We'reunhappyinourrelationship.Thatstressthecortisolreleasesnotonlychangesourbody,ourgeneexpression,italsochangesthemicrobiome.Whenyouchangethemicrobiome,itchangesthebody’s

geneexpression.Sometimesourgeneexpressionchangesourmicrobiome.It'sbasicallyabidirectionalcommunication.Itisnotsimplyaunidirectionalcommunicationthatsaysyouchangeyourmicrobiomeandthat'sreallywhereeverythingemanatesfrom.Everythingimpactseverything,andwhatwearetryingtodoistoreallykeepallthesethingsworkingwelltogether,findingwherevertheweakestlinksare,fixingthatweaklink.Sometimesit'sinthecommunication.Sometimesit'sthenothavingthemechanismtocommunicate.Thatmeanstheorganismthatneedtobeproducingcertainenzymesdon'texist.Thatmeanswe

havetogiveyouthoseenzymesartificiallyuntilwecanbuildthat.Forexample,ifyoudon'thaveenoughCoQ10,thentherearecertainATPcyclethatjustnotgoingtobecompleted,sowe'regoingtosay,"YouneedtotakeCoQ10.Youneedtotakemagnesium,"or,"Youreallyneedzinc,"or,"Youreallyneedbutyratebecauseyourmicrobiomeisnotproducingenoughbutyraterightnow."


Whatwedoisnotjusttellyouwhatisgoingoninsideyourbody,weveryspecificallytellyouthatyouneedthesemicronutrientsandyouneedthesemacronutrients.Formepersonallythatwasverycounterintuitive.Iwastryingtoloseweightandeveryonetoldme...Iwasprediabetic.Everyonesaid,"Oh,that'sreallyeasy.Youreallyneedtogoonano-carbdiet.Ifyoucutdownallthecarbsandyoustarteating..."

Harry: Anditmadeyoufatter,right?

Naveen: Itdidmakemefatter!

Harry: Ihadthesamething.IdidtheketogenicthingandIstartedgoingdiabetic.Afterninemonthsofit,Imeasuredbybloodsugar.Thiswaslastyear,andIwent,"Yeah,I'mgoingdiabetic."Anyway.

Naveen:

That'sexactlywhathappenedtome.TheinterestingthingisthenIlaunchedtheViomecompanyandIdidmytestanditsaid,"No,morethan50%ofyourdietreallyneedstobethecomplexcarbohydrateandbytheway,stopeatingtoomuchspinachandavocado.Don'teatlentils,legumesandtofu.Starteatingapplesandstarteatingothervegetables,starteatingotherfruits,butdon'teatavocadoandspinach."Thatwasthatpersonalized.InterestingisnotonlynowIlostmorethan

[00:22:40]

fivepounds,mybloodglucoselevelhascomedownsignificantly.Mypointisthisissocounterintuitiveandthesefaddietsaretheonesthatreallyarekillingpeople.RemembertheAtkin'sdiet,thepoorAtkin'sdiedofheartdisease.Thenwewentonapaleodietandnowthisfaddietcalledketogenicdiet.Thenyougointothelactindiet.Everyfewyears,there'sanotherfad.

Harry: Yes.It'sdietmadness.

Naveen:[00:23:30]

Whatreallyhappensisthereisnosuchthingisuniversalhealthythingasyouweretalkingabout.EachthinghastobepersonalizedformebecauseourDNA.Thinkabout,ourDNAhave99%commonbetweenanytwohumanbeings.Infact,meandatreehave90%samecommonDNA.Whenitcomestoourmicrobiome,itisextremelyunique.Lessthan5%ofourmicrobiomeissamebetweenyouandIbecauseyoumeetdifferentpeople.Whenyoutouchpeople'shand,youhugpeople,theairyouarebreathing,thefoodyouareeating.Everyoneofthosethingschangesyourmicrobiome.Yourmicrobiomeismoreuniquethanourfingerprint.

Harry:

IguessthebitI'mtryingtoworkoutisittherightthingtotryandeatforyourmicrobiomeinthepresentoristhereafuturemicrobiomethatmightbemorehealthyforyouandthereforemaybeyoushouldbeeatingtosomeotherfuturestateofmicrobiome?

Naveen:

Interestingthingisyouhavetointroducethat...Therearetwotypesofconcept.Oneisprebiotic,thathowdoyoufeedtheonesthatyouhaveandyoumayhavesomethingthatareaverysmallquantityandothersareinverylargequantity.Ifyouwanttogrowtheonethatareinthesmallquantity,thenyoucanfeedthe


rightsetoffoodtofeedthemsotheycanactuallystarttogrow.Ifyoudon'tevenhavetobeginwiththemicroorganism,thenyouhavetointroducethemthroughprobiotic.Itreallyisnotaboutjustfeedingtoyourcurrentmicrobiome.Youhavetofeedtoyourcurrentmicrobiometokeepthebalancegoing.Thatmeansreallymakingsuredoyoureducetheonethataretoomuchandincreasetheonethataretoolittle.Thenyouintroducethenewsetofmicrobiomethroughprobiotic.Thereisnooneprobioticforeachperson.Youhavetofindwhat'slacking.Even

then,youhavetointroducetheideaofthesechemicalsthatarelacking.Thatmeansyoustillhavetokeepthebodyinbalancesothatyoucanstartmovingistogiveyouthezincandthemagnesium.Wedon'tsuggesttakethemultivitaminbecauseyou'repissingitoffbasically.It'stounderstandexactlywhatisneededforthebodyandthatreallyisourkey.Ourkeyistogiveyoutheactionablethingyoucandotodaytokeepyourbodyhealthy.ThemainthingthatIlove,Harry,the

satisfactionIgetisyougotodaytotheFacebookandjusttypeViome.Ourcustomersareourbiggestpromoter.They'realltelling...Weneversaywecureanydiseases,andourcustomersareconstantlytellingeveryoneelse,"Ihadthis,andmyGodIfeelbettertodaythanIhaveeverfeltinlast10years.I'vebeenonthismedicineforfiveyears.I'veneverhadthatmuchsuccessassimplyjusteatingthisViomerecommendation."Weareusingthefoodasamedicinethatamedicinecouldn'tdo.

Harry:

That'swonderful.Let'stalkalittlebitaboutthecommunicationsysteminthebody.Wewerehavinglunchback...IthinkitwaslastAugustatJJ'sMindShare,Ithinkwhereweweretalkingaboutcellularcommunicationandthenyoujustmentionedhowyouthoughtbacteriawereusinganon-localformofcommunication.I'dlovetohearyourthoughtsonthat.

Naveen:

Firstofall,youareoneofthesmartestguyswhoactuallyunderstoodwhatIwastalkingabout.Mostpeoplesay,“Oh,whatever.What'sforlunch?"It'sveryinterestingthatthesecommunicationmechanismsaresomanydifferentwaystheseorganismscommunicateamongthemselvesandtothehost,whichisthehumanbody.Nowweknowthateventhebacteriaarecommunicatingwhattheycallquorumsensing.Quorumsensingisreallythisdecentralizedsystemandthekeyiseachindividualsarereleasingthissignaltosay,"I'mhere.I'mhere.I'mhere."Untiltheygetenoughoftheunitytosay,"Okay,enoughofusareherenow,"theychangetheirbehaviorsuddenly.That’swhentheychangethebehaviorthenstart

releasing.Youknowthebiofilm,themucusythingthatyouseesometimewhenyouare...Youhaveawoundandyouseethismucusthing.That'sactuallythebiofilmandthebiofilmsgetformedwhenthesebacteriastarttosensethere'senoughofthemnow.Theycanformarelationshipandcreateabarriersonobodycangetinnow.Thatbarriertheycreatetoprotectthemselves.Oncetheycreateabiofilm,itgetsvery,verydifficulttopenetrate.Bytheway,it’snotjustthebacteria.

Mostpeoplethinkthatmicrobiomeisaboutbacteria.Interestingthingissomethingcalledmycobiomeisthefungalcommunity.Thefungalcommunityisactuallyjustasimportantinsidethegutbecausethisallcommunicateswitheachother.Theyeast,moldandespeciallythevirusesandmorethantheviruses,thebacteriophages.Bacteriophagesarethevirusesthatonlyimpactthebacteria.

Allthisecosystemisnotsomethingisgoodorsomethingisbadperse.They


becomegoodorbaddependingonwhatelseisthere.Inasense,theycankeepeachotherincheckandyouneedallofthemforthisgoodecosystem.ThinkofitlikeanAmazonianforest.It'snotonethingisgoodorbad.Youtakeonethingout,everythingelsechangesbecausepeoplearefeedingoneachother.Ifyoutakeonethingout,there'ssomethingelsewho'snotgettingfedandtheyreduceandeverythingelsechanges.They’realsousingelectricalsignallikeneuronsto

communicatewitheachother.Theyusethechemicalsignalsthatgetabsorbedfromtheguttothebloodandtheycommunicatewithourmitochondria,which,bytheway,usedtobetheancientbacteriathat'scapturedbythehumancellandithasownDNA.TheymodifyourmicroRNAanditchangesthegeneexpressionofwhoweare.Wearenotourgenes.Weareourgeneexpressed.Whatgenesare

expressediswhatmakesuswhoweare,notthegeneswehavebecausegeneswehaveislikealphabet.Wecanwriteathrillerwiththatorwecanwriteapoetrywiththat.Whatisbeingwritteniswhatreallymatters.

Harry:

It'ssofascinatingthenetworkofhowthingscommunicateinthebody.HowwouldIputit?DoyouseeIguessthedifferentcellshavedifferentenergystatessothey'reallcommunicatingatdifferentlevels?

Naveen:

Yes,tosomeextent.Oneofthethingsthat'sreallypuzzlingtomethatIintuitivelybelievedwasthere,butneverwasanysignofitwhichwasthateventhebacteriainthegutareusingtheelectricalsignaltocommunicatewitheachotherverysimilartoneurons.You'restartingtoreallygetthispicturethatweashumansarereallyusingmanyoftheoriginalmechanismsthatwereevolvedasbacterialorganisms.Ifyoulookathowbacteriascommunicatewitheachother,we'restartingtodevelopourbrainsthatcommunicateusingthesamething.Youlookatourenergycellthat

themitochondria...Mitochondriausedtobeanancientbacteriathatwascapturedbythehumancell,soifyouthinkaboutit,ithaditsownDNAseparatefromthehumanDNAandit'sperformingataskinsymbiosiswiththehuman,ourcell.Then

howmicrobiomeiscommunicatingwithmitochondriaandhowmicrobiomeisinterferinginthegeneexpression?Tosomeextent,weweretalkingaboutthattolargeextentthemicrobiomeiscontrollingmanyofthethingsthatarehappeninginthebodyandtheretolargeextentyouwouldthinkofthemasacentralizedcontrolsystemoryoucouldcalltheminasimplerwordpuppetmasters,andthey'repullingthestringsandthepuppet,ourbodies,say,"Okayboss.Okayboss.I'mthere."

Harry:

Whatmakesyouthinkit'samicrobiomethat'sthecontrolsystemIguessversusthananoverallfieldcontrolsystem?It'slikethere'sthatconceptinphysicswheneverythingisholographic.Youcan'tnecessarilysayAcausesB.It'smoreofasynchronisticevent.

Naveen:[00:32:00]

I'lltellyouwhy.Theydidsomeoftheveryinteresting,whatIwouldcallthecausativestudies.It'sveryinteresting.Therearetwostudiesthatwerereallyinterestingthatisstartingtomakemebelievethatthecontrolsystemisthemicrobiome.Onewastheytookinter-speciestransferofmicrobiome.Theytookthemicethatisbredtohavenomicroorganisminthegut.Theybasicallykilledallthemicroorganism.Thentheytookthemicrobiomefromthefatpersonandgave


ittothesemice,andthesemicebecamefat.Thenthetookthemicrobiomeofthethinpersonandgaveittothemiceandthemicebecamethin.Thatstarttoshowthecausativethingwasreallythismicrobiome,nottheholisticsystem.

Harry:

I'mgoingtochallengeyouonthat.Doyouthinkthat'sreally...Anythingcanbroadcastinflammation,soifyoutakethemicrobiomeandit'sgotthatsetofinflammationbecauseit'sbeenusedtobeingfat,thenit'llbroadcastfat.Inparallel...Ithinkyou'llfinditquiteinteresting.We'vebasicallybeenstudyingwhatwecallinformationmedicine,wherewe'rebasicallyabletoputinformationontoasignalandthenthatinformationistransferredtowhatwewouldcalltheBody-Fieldthat'sthenpickedupbyeverycellinthebody.

Naveen:

Ithinkisreallywhat'shappeningisthesemicrobiomearereleasingtheinflammationsignalandtheinflammationsignalisintheformofthesemetabolites,whicharereallythesesmallmoleculeswhicharegettingabsorbedinthebloodandthatareessentiallysayingthesignaltothethings,"Hey,startenlargingthesefatcellsbecausethefamineiscoming."

Harry: Yeah,Ilovethat.Ilovethat.IguesswhatI'msayingisthere'sotherwaysyoucanimprintortransmitinformationtothebodybecauseyoucandoitthroughtechnology,etc,aswell.

Naveen:

That'sabsolutelycorrect.Youcouldpotentiallywouldhaveremovedthemicrobiomeandtakentheinformationthatmicrobiomesarecommunicatingthroughothermechanismanddeliverthesesameresults.Forexample,whenyoutakemetformin...Metforminisadiabetesdrug.Thatactuallydoesnotworkonthehost.Itactuallyworksonthemicrobiomeandallowsthemicrobiomeinformationtochange.Thatinturnchangestheinsulinresistance.Mypointisultimatelyall

we'redoingischangingtheinformationsignalthatarecomingoutofmicrobiomeandbychangingthatinformationsignal,ourbodyreactsdifferently.ThattomeisreallythekeythatwearethisholisticsystemandourWesternmedicineisdesignedasthesecomponentsandthemorespecializedyoubecome,youlookatthecomponentssay,"AslongasIcanmakethesecomponentworkoptimally,everythingelseshouldwork."However,youdon'trealizetomakethissystemworkoptimallyandatpeakperformance,thenyoufindaweakpointsomewhereelseandthesystemalwaysbreaksattheweakestpoint.

Harry:

Gotyou.Haveyouread...There'sanarticleinNewScientist...Goodnessme,Ithinkitwasabouttwoorthreeyearsago...Ofallofthisbacteriathatwasdiscoveredinthesoilthatjustlivedoffpureelectrons.Itdidn'teatfood.Itwasn'tdigestinganythingsolid.Itwasjustlivingoffrawelectrons.

Naveen:

It'sveryinteresting.Wefindthebacterialorganismthatarethrivingintheradioactivenuclearwaste.Thinkforthatforasecond,notonlythatnaturehasfiguredouthowtoprotectitsDNAfromthehighradiation.Sowhenpeoplesayhowcanhumansliveinthisspacebecausethereissuchahighradiation,theydon'trealizethatnaturehasalreadybuiltinthemechanismthatusesthemechanismsothatnotonlywecanprotectourDNA.Itusestheradiationatasourceofenergy,so


itdoesn'tneedanymorefood.Itusestheradiationasasourceofenergytothriveandreplicate.Nowimagineifyoucantakethegenesfromthatbacteriaandwewill

usethecrispertechnologytomodifythehumangenesandsuddenlynotonlyweareprotectedfromtheradiation,wedon'tneedtoeatpizzaanymore.Wecanjustgowalkandgettheradiation.

Harry:

Ithinkslightlydifferently,butwe'vealreadygotthatgeneinasense.GilbertLing,Ithinkitwasinthe'60s,hewrotethispaperwherehewasbasicallycalculatingthesourceofenergyinthecell.Hecalculatedthatonly25%ofitwascomingfromthefatandcarbohydratedowntoATProuteand75%wasbasicallyunaccountedforinthenormalATPcycle.Thenhisexplanationwasit'scomingfromambientheatandalittlebitlikephotosynthesisandheat'sbeingconvertedtoasourceofelectronsinthecell.

Naveen:[00:37:40]

Thatisafascinating,fascinatingwork.Ihavetoreadonthatbecausethatreallyisveryfascinating.TheotherthingthatIfindreallyfascinatingisthathowourgutandourbrainareactuallyconnectedthroughthevagusnerveandweareconstantlycommunicatingbackandforth.It'sabidirectionalcommunicationsystem.We'reusingthecortisol,theserotoninanddopamineasthereaction.That'swhyyouwouldnoticethatwhenyou'reanxious,yougetthebutterfliesinthestomach,alltheserotoninthat'sproducedinthegut.Ourvagasnerveisthat

thecommunicationmechanismandtolargeextentourbehaviorisdeterminedbyourmicrobiome.WhatIfindreallyfascinatingisthatwhenwearefullisdeterminedbyourmicrobiome,whenwearehungryandwhatwecraveisactuallydetermined.Iwonderthattolargeextenttheyaretheonethat'spullingthesestrings.Inoticeabidirectionalcommunicationmechanism,buttolargeextent,there'ssomuchofthemandthere'ssomanygenesthatthey'rebeingexpressedtherethattheyhavealotofimpactonwhathappensinthehumanbodyandsometimesIwonderarewereallylookingatthisthinginawrongway?You

remember,longtimeago,weusedtobelievetheEarthisthecenterofoursolarsystemandwhenGaleleosaysthatitmaybetheSun,theywantedtokillhimbecausehewasfundamentallychangingthatwearenotthecenter.Whatifwearewrongandwebelieveourprimarybrainishereandthisourgut,wecallasecondarybrain?Whatifthatwastheprimarybrain?Whatifourgutwasourprimarybrainandthethingsittingonthetopofourshoulderissimplythemotorcortexthatfollowsthedirectionof…

Harry:

I'llgoonefurtherthanthat.Whatdoyouthinkifit'sevenoutsidethephysicaltissueperseandit'sactuallyinafield?Likeinmedicine,there'sMRIs,EKGs,ECGs.Weknowthesefieldsexistandwejustthinkthey'reinterestingfromadiagnosticpointofview,butit'salsopossiblethatthereverseistrue.IfyoutaketheEinsteinquote,"Ifthefieldisthesolegoverningforceoftheparticle.”Perhapsactuallyitcomesfromoutsideandit'sreallytheenvironmentthat'sdictatingyou.

Naveen:

Theanswerisabsolutelytrue.There'sjustnodoubtinmymindthatwecannotliveinisolation.Everythingaroundus,themicrowave,theWiFisignal,theEMFthatisbeing...Everyoneofthosethingsareimpactingourbodybecauseanytimeyouhaveenergyarounduswhichisnowespeciallyinthiselectronicage.Remember,


we'resleepingwithourcellphones,wearebathedwithaWiFisignal.Ifanybodybelievesthatnoneofit'sgoingtohavinganyimpactonthehumanbody,thatiscompletelywrong.Wejustknowthatwhenyouimpacttheenergyaroundus,isgoingtoimpact...Ourtissueisgoingtochangethechemicalreactionandeverythingchanges.Youthinkaboutwhatmicrowavedoes.Howdoesmicrowave

heatthefood?It'sessentiallychangingandisspinningthethingsandthey'rechangingthethermodynamicsofthething.Howcanyoupossiblybelievethatit'snotchangingthechemicalpartofwhatyou'reheating?That'showtheheatingworks?Sobelieve...Mypointisyou'reabsolutelycorrect.Everythingarounduschangeswhoweare.I'mnottryingtogettingintothevoodoostuff,butthefactistheenergyarounduschanges.Eachoneofusareemanatingtheenergyandwe

areabsorbingtheenergy.Whenyouseethetwopeopleinteractingandthephysicalproximityofeachother,therearealotoftimeswecanfeelthatenergyandwefeel...Sometimes,wesay,"Wow,Ilikethisperson.Itfeelsgoodorpositiveenergy,"andsometimesit's,"OhmyGod,hejustgivesmebadvibes."Whatisthatbadvibes?Itisussensingthatenergyandwe'resaying,"It'snotintunewithourreceiver.Thetransmitterisn'tcompletelyoutoftunewithourreceiver.He'snotmytype."That'sonething,andyoucouldalsoargue...Ididn'twanttogohere.

Harry: Sorry,I'mmakingyouuncomfortable.It'sgood.

Naveen:[00:42:00]

Coulditbethatweashumanbodydoesn'treallyexist?Itonlygetscreatedthroughourimaginationthatwearethere.Thatmeanswhatifthehandthatweseeisnotthere.OnlywhenIlookatit'stherebecausewhenIdon'tlookatit,Idon'tseeit,right?WhenItouchit,isitsimplythehapticfeedbackthatI'mgettingthatifsomethingisthere,it'sverysimilartowhatifyouwerewearingafullbodysuitinavirtualrealityandyoucantouchsomethingandyoufeelit'sthereeventhoughit'snotthere?Whatisourbrainisplayingthevirtualrealitygameandthatweare

seeingthingsthatdon'tquiteexistandwe'regettingthehapticfeedbackthat'sbuiltintooursomatosensorysignalsthatwegetfromthetouch?Whatifthattouchisactuallybeingfabricated?

Harry: Whenyoulookinto...Iguessintophysics,thephysicsofrealityIguessisquitesimilartothatMatrixideaofsimulationbecauseultimatelythere'snothingthere.

Naveen:

It'sveryinterestingthatthereisveryfewtimesthereligionandthesciencearesayingthesamething,butinadifferentword.YoulookatthescientistorevenElon.Elonbelievesthatweareliving...Thechancesofusnotlivinginavirtualrealityareclosetozero.Hebelievesthereisaprogrammerwhocreatedthiswholethingcalledhumanityandwearesimplyavatarsinsomebody'svirtualgame.Thatmeansaprogrammercreatedus.ThereligionsaysGodcreatedus.WhatiftheGodistheprogrammer?Mypointiswe’resayingthesamething.Inareligion,wecall

thataGodandthesciencecalledusaprogrammer.Wecalledthatacreator.Isn'tthatthesameconcept?Basically,everyoneissayingthatwearelivinginthisvirtualworldandwedon'treallyquiteexist.MaybetheBigBangwasnothingbutaMacrebooting.

Harry:

Ithinkwhatthatdoesdoisitgivestremendouspowertotheindividualovertheir


healthbecause,asIsay,it'snotjustfromtheenvironment.Yourthoughtisprobablythemostdirectformofcontrolsystemthatyoucanguess,andthatcanobviouslyaffectallofyourhealth.

Naveen: IwouldliketocomebacktoViome.

Harry: I'msorry.Iknow.I'msorry.Naveen:[00:45:00]

Havinggonethroughallofthethings,let'sbringitbacktothereality.Harry,whatdidyouunderstandisthatwhatViomedoes?Iwantyoutoexplainthistome.

Harry: Okay,sure.Basically,whatViomedoes,fromapractical...Let'sjusttakepeoplethroughthepracticalside.Basically,theycangotoyourwebsite.Theycan…

Naveen: What'sthewebsite?Harry:

Itisviome.comhopefully.

Naveen: Yes,itis.

Harry: That'sgood.Theycangotoyourwebsite.Theycanorderamicrobiometestandthenfromthattest,theysendyoubackasample.

Naveen:

Actually,it'snotamicrobiometest.Thisisreallyathingwesendthatdoesboththemetabolicintelligenceandthegutintelligence.Welookathowdoesyourbodydigestthecarbohydrate?Howdoesyourbodydigestproteinandfat?That'slookingatthehostsidebylookingattheblood.Thenwelookatwhat'shappeninginsideyourgut.Thenwe'readdingcoupleofmoreteststhataregoingtobecomingoutinthenext60to90days,whicharearoundthemitochondrialgeneexpressionandthebloodgeneexpressionandtheinflammationandlookingattheurinemetabolites,whichessentiallyshowsyouthebiochemicalreactionsofthebody.Wetakeallthisdataandthenweputthatintotheartificialintelligence

enginetoseewhatisgoingoninsideHarry'sbody?Whatistherightnutrientsthatheneeds?Whatishelacking?Thenwemakeveryspecificrecommendationonwhatfoodyouneedandwhatsupplementsyouneed,whatprobioticsyoumayneed.Again,we'renotsellinganyofthestuff.Ourjobistosimplytellyouwhatyourbody'slackingratherthantrytosellyouanything.Wesay,"Look,hereiswhatyouneedandyoucangobuythemfromAmazon.Youcanbuythemfrom...Herearethethreevendorsthatwelike."Thepointisourjobistoliterallybeonyour

sidetoempoweryouwithinformationandgiveyoutheactionsyoucantakebecausewewantyoutobelieve.Youdon'tneedadoctorsimplylookingatthething.Bythetimeyouwalkin,he'salreadywritingaprescription.Theydon'twanttohearyourstory.Theydon'tevenwanttoknowwhat'sgoingon."Ohdoc,myheadhasbeenhurting.""Oh,yougotabraintumor.""No,no,doc.I'vebeencoughing.""Oh,yougotpneumonia.""Doc,listentomeforasecond."Mypointisthey'resimplytryingtofindoutdrugtoprescribeyou.That'sallthey'rethinkingabout.They'renotthinkingaboutwhat'swrongwithyou?HowdoIfixit?They'renotlookingatthestuffandsaying,"Whyisthebodybeinginflamed?Whyisthe


communicationbetweenthesecellsarebroken?"Everysingledrugthatyoutake

actuallyfixesonesymptomandcausesthreemoresymptom.Surprise,theyhaveadrugforeachsymptom.Tome,onceyougetintothat,youliterallyareatthemercyofthesepharmaceuticalcompanieswhodon'thaveyourbestinterestsatheart.Whatwe'redoingreallyatViomeisgivingyouthatcontrol.Ourhopenowinallseriousnessreallyis...Forme,thisismymissionbecauseIfeelthatGodhasbeenverykindtous.Icametothiscountrywithabsolutelynothing.Societyhas

givenmesomuch.Godhasgivenmesomuch.Tome,mymissionistohelpthebillionsofpeopleremovetheirsufferingfromallthesechronicdiseases.Ireallybelievethisisthefirsttimeinthehumanhistorywhereweactuallyhaveapowertobeabletounderstandwhatisgoingoninsideourbodyandkeepthatthingsimplyusingthefood.Wedon'treallyneedtopharmaceuticaldrugs.Ifwedoour

jobright,onedaysicknesswillbeoptional.Ijustneedyourhelpandeveryonewho'slisteningtoittoreallysignupandunderstandforthemselveswhatisgoingon,buteverypersonwhosignsupalsonotonlyhelpsthemselves.Italsohelpsthehumanitybecausemorepeoplecometogether,moreinformationwehave.Themoreinformationwehave,ourartificialenginejustkeepsgettingbetterandbetterbecauseitjustneedsmoredataandmoredata.Everypersonhelpsthemselvesandhelpseveryonebeforeandeveryoneafter.Tome,itisourdutytocometogether

totakethecontrolofourownhealth.Ifwedon'tdoit,Iwillgetfrustratedandgooutanddosomethingelseandtheproblemwillcontinuetoremainthesameandthehealthcaresystemwillcontinuetovictimizeus.Ihopeeveryonewho'slisteningtoitwilljoinusinthisrevolutionandtrytotakecontrolofourownbodyandourownhealth.

Harry:[00:49:30]

Couldyoutellusalittlebitmoreabouthowartificial...Well,basicallyhowyou'reusingartificialintelligencetoreallyhelpsolveit?

Naveen:

Basically,ifyouthinkaboutit,youstarttolookat...Wedon'tcomeupwiththehypothesisthatsays,"Thiscausesthis,"becausetheproblemthathappensisintheolddays,thescientist'sideawasyoucreateahypothesisandthenyoufindtheempiricalevidencetoproveordisprovethathypothesis.Intheworldofmassivedata,whathappensyouhaveahypothesisisyoucanfindthepatterninthenoise.Ifyousay,"Thiscausesthisandifboththingsexist,thenweknowthisdiseaseis...Thisisthecause."What’shappeningiswhenyouhavepetabytesofdata,youcan

findanyhypothesisyouwant,andyoucanproveanythingyouwant.Whatwedoisactuallyslightlydifferent.Wetakeallthedatasowegetalotofthesymptomaticinformationthatwhenpersongetsonboarded,they'retellingusallthethingsthataregoingon.Ifwelookatallofthemicrobialdatathatmeanseveryorganismthat'sthere,howactivetheyare,whatthey'reactuallyproducing.Welookatallthemacronutrients,informationfromthemetabolicsite.Aswe’regettingmore

informationfromgeneexpression,we'relookingatallthatstuff.Thenwesayit,"Whatiscommon?Whatistheclustering?"We'vegonethroughtensofthousandsofalgorithmandthenwestarttofindthesegroupofpeoplethatareclusteredhere,thegroupofpeoplethatareclusteredhere,thegroupofpeoplethatareclusteredhereandthenwesay,"Wow,lookatthesethings.Theyalwaysseemtobetiedtogetherthesethousandpeople.Whatissouniqueaboutthem?"Thenyou

say,"Wow,noticethat.Theyallhavediabetes.OhmyGod,andlookatthem.They


allhavelackofbutyrateproduction.Hmm,Iwonderifthat'sreallywhat'sgoingon."Thenwesayifthatisthehypothesis,canwerunandseethenext1,000peopleandseeifwecanprovethat?"

Harry: Perfect.Thisisapersonalquestion.Whenyou'reonstageatMindShare,IthinkyousaidtoJJyoucouldteachhertohaveotherpeoplerunhercompaniesforher,butyoudidn'texplainanyfurther.Iwasjustcuriousonthat.

Naveen:

It'sveryinterestingisthatIfindthatonceyoubecomeanexpertinwhateveryou'redoing,you'reonlyabletoimproveitincrementallyby5%,10%,15%.Youcanmakeitbetterbecauseyou'reexpertatit.Ifyouwanttochangesomething10timesor100times,youhavetocomefromoutsidetheexpertisebecausetobecomeanexpert,youhavetoessentiallyhavethefoundationalknowledgeandyoucanneverchallengethatfoundationalknowledgebecauseyou'renolongeranexpertthen.Whenthenon-expertcomesin,theystarttochallengethefoundationofeverythingthatpeoplehavetakenitforgranted.Iamnotadoctor.Iamnota

scientist.Icamefromthefundamentalbeliefthatyoucan'thaveallthesedifferentdiseasesandhavethesedifferentdrugsandworksforeverybodyinthehumanitywhenweknowwearesounique.Therehastobesomethingelse.WhenIstarteddiggingthroughalltheresearch,itbecamecleartomethesystemhasbeenignoringthemicrobiome.Thereasontheyhavebeenignoringisbecausetheywanttohavemassproduceddrugsthatcanbesellingtobillionsofpeopleandtheydon'twanttopersonalizeit.Isaid,“Whatiswecanpersonalizeit?Whatifwedon’t

reallyneedthedrug?Whatifthefoodwastheonlymedicineweneed?"Thatfundamentalbeliefiswhatcausedmetostartbuildingateam.Thinkaboutit.TheheadoftheIBMWatsonResearchcameandjoinedmebecausetheywanttosolvethisproblem.Itisthelegacy.Itissomethingthatcanhelpabillionpeople.Dr.Messier,Dr.Perlina,youlookatDr.Banavar,Dr.Vuyisich.Allthesepeoplecametogetherbecausetheyallwerealignedtothismissionofmakingsicknessoptional.Mythinkingisthatifyouhavean

audaciousmoonshot,thehumanitywillcometogethertosolveit.Ifyousimplydosomethingtomakemoney,peoplewalkawayfromitbecausepeopledon'twanttomakemoremoney.Peoplewanttodowhat'sreallygoodanddoinggoodanddoingwellshouldbecomingtogetherandthereshouldbenothingthatsimplydoeswellorsimplydoesgood.Ifyouwanttodosmallgoodintheworld,youstartanonprofit.Ifyouwanttodoalargegoodintheworld,youstartforprofit.

Harry: Tosumup,withwhatyoudowithyourtime,areyoumostlyfocusingonthewhyandthewhocanhelpachievetheWhy?Isitassimpleasthat?

Naveen:

Istartwiththewhy.WhatisitthatIwanttodo?IfIdosucceedindoingwhatI'mdoing,howwouldthatchangethetrajectoryofhowhumanity'sgoingtoliveinthefuture?IfIdosucceed,GodforbidI'msuccessful.Woulditactuallyhelpthebillionpeopleacrosstheworld?Iftheanswerisyes,I'mwillingtodedicatemylifetodoingit.That'sthereasonIstartedMoonExpresstoreallysavethehumanityfrompotentialextinctionbecausewe'realllivinginthissinglespacecraftandwedon'twanttobecomeadinosaurifwegethitbyalargeasteroid.IstartedViomeforsimplereasonbecausewecanmakesicknessasanoption,notjustamatterofbad


luck.Whatifitwasreallyachoicethatyoucouldmake?Myhopeisthatassoonas

Ifinishthis,I'mgoingtogooutandfixtheeducationnext,createabundanceoffood,createabundanceofenergy,createabundanceoflandbecausethereisnoreasonweshouldnotbeabletohaveabundanceofeverything.Whatifenergywasthenextair?Thateveryonehasit,it'sdemocratizedandit'sdemonetized?Thatmeansit'sfreetoanyoneandnoonefightsoverairandoxygen.Whatiftheenergywasthenextoxygenthat'sfreeforeveryone?Ifwehavefreeenergy,wecanhavefreefreshwaterbecauseeventhedirtiestwater,youcanboilanddistill.Pointisifyoucandothat,youcansolvesomanyproblems.Myjobistomoveawayfromthemindsetofscarcityandmoveintothemindsetofabundance.Ifwecandothat,wecanchangehumanity.

Harry:

Iwascurious.Obviously,it'sanextraordinarycareerandvision.Iwascuriouswhat'sunderneathonthat.Lookingatyoubeingabletogofromindustrytoindustryandyou'vebeenthroughawfullotofchange.Alotofpeoplegetreally...Theygetstuckanduncomfortablewithchange.IsitbecauseofyourchildhoodormovingfromIndiatotheStatesIguessthatyou'reabletobeunattachedingreatperiodsofchangesothatyoucanmakerealimpact?Iwascuriouswhat'sunderneathallthis.

Naveen:

Ithinkit'sreallytheintellectualcuriosity.Ireallybelievewhatdrivesmeisthatintellectualcuriosity.Ireadalot.Tome,becauseI'mjustdrivenbywhy?Whyisitworkingthisway?Whycan'titbesomethingdifferent?TherearetimesIwouldspendprobablyreadinghundredsofscientificpapersandthenit'sabookofwhatcauseabodytohaveacancer?Ispentthreeyearsjustlearningabouthumanbrain.Whatisitthat'sgoingoninsidethisbrainthathowitworks?ThenI’llspendthe

timeongeneticsandtheepigeneticsandthemicrobiome.Ijustgodeepintotheseresearchesbecauseit'sjustintellectualcuriosity.WhathappensiseverytimeIreadsomething,I'mcollectingthedots.AnytimeIseetheseproblems,I'mthinking,"Wow,Ihavethismissingdot.IfIcanpluginthere,thatcansolvethatproblem."I'malwayslookingforwhatarethebiggestsocietalchallengesandwhatarethedotsavailableinmypocketthatIcanmixandmatchtosolveaparticularproblem.

Harry: Thankyou.Isthereanythingmorethatyou'dliketosaytotheaudience?Thatstatementprobablysumsitup.

Naveen:

Ireallythinkthatasopposedtolookingattheworldasis,focusonwhatyouwanttheworldtobe.Don'tfocusonisthisglasshalfemptyorhalffull.Focusondoyouwanttofillthisglass?Isthisglassworthfilling?Asopposedtoreallythinkingabouttakingyourkidstothewaterormakingthemdrink?Findaboutmakingthemcurious.Ifyoucanmakethemintellectuallycurious,you'recreatingathirst.Ifyoucanmakethemthirsty,theywillfindthewaterforrestoftheirlifeandtheywillbedrinkingontheirown.Ourjobasasocietyistomakeeveryonethirstyandthethirstcomefromintellectualcuriosity.Thattomeishowwe'regoingtochangethehumanitybycreatinganamazinglyintellectualcurioussociety.

Harry: I'msurefromthateveryonehasgotextremelythirsty.Ireallyhighlyrecommendthattheygotoviome.comandtakeitfromthere.


Naveen: ThanksalotHarry.Lookforwardtotalkingtoyoumore.Takecare.

Harry: Thankyou.

Wendy:

Pleasekeepinmindthatthispodcastisnotintendedtodiagnoseortreatanydiseaseorhealthcondition,andisnotasubstituteforprofessional,medicaladvice.Pleaseseekamedicalpractitionerbeforeengaginginanythingthatwesuggesttodayontheshow.