Resposta Rogers a May

8/15/2019 Resposta Rogers a May

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REPLY T ROLL MAY’S LETTER

T CARLROGERS

CARL

R

ROGERS

Dear

Rollo:

Tom Greening has se nt me your eloquent and scholarly letter dealing

with the problem of evil an d evil behavior. Your thoughtful analyses and

arg um ent s will provoke a lot of good thinking and I appreciate that.

Unfortunately, your m ater ial arriv es on the eve of m y d ep ar tu re for

Europe and by the t ime I re tu rn , the editor’s deadline will be at hand.

Consequently, this must be a hasty reply, which I regret. I cannot

possibly touch on all th e issues t h at you raised.

I would like firs t to deal with a couple of lesser points in your letter,

ones on which m y feelings ar e clear.

W hen you speak of t h e narcissism th at h as been fostered by human-

istic psychology and how m any individuals a re “lost in self-love,” I feel

like speaking u p an d saying, “That’s not true ” Then

I

realize that wh at I

am saying is tha t i t is not tru e in my experience, bu t my experience is

limited to clients and groups dealt with by my particular brand of

hum anistic psychology and philosophy. I n those group s I simply have not

seen th e development of a har m ful narcissism an d certainly not of

an

excessive self-love. If these cha racte ristics have em erged in other

facets

of the human istic movement,

I

have not been in contact with them. 1

realize thi s is quite possible because

I

am not closely in touch with other

aspects of th e hum’anistic movement.

In the groups with which I’ve had contact, the truth is quite the

contrary. Such groups lead to social action of a realistic nature.

Individu als who come in as social fanatics becom e much more socially

realistic, bu t they still w an t t ta ke action. Peoplewho have not been very

aw ar e of social issues become more a w ar e and , again, opt for realistic

Journal ofHumumktu Pqchdogy Vol 22 No. Fall 1982 85-89

982 Association for Humanistic Psychology

85

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actions on those issues. We have had plenty of evidence of th is in our

encounter groups and workshops. Irrational anger and violence are

sometimes defused, bu t action of a more realistic sor t increases.

One am using b it of personal evidence on this. When I received the

copy of your open let ter , I was p ut tin g the finishing touches on a very

strong statement about nuclear w ar and w hat might bedone t prevent

it. I am tak ing a stan d ag ain st the policies of our government, which I

feel ar e m aking nuclear w ar more likely. This is bu t one example of th e

fact tha t we agree in

so

many ways i t is difficult to be exactly certain

where we differ.

I

am sur e tha t you an d

I

ar e both a cting

to

do what we

can

t

prevent this monstrous evil of nuclear war.

You speak at leng th of th e fai lu re of people like myself and client-

centered therapy to recognize, accept, an d respond t feelings of ange r,

hostility, and negative feelings in general, perhaps especially those

directed toward the therapist.

I

think tha t to some exten t this was

definitely tr ue of m e in the dis tah t past, although I have also published

exam ples of t he way in which I dealt with bit ter hostility toward me in

therapy.

I

have never

qu i t e

agreed with the opinion of the outside

evaluators in our schizophrenic research, t h at w e as a grou p dodged o r

evaded th e negative o r hostile reactions. I have t recognize th at possibly

th e evaluators were correct. Certainly in recent yea rs I feel th at I have

responded much more adequately to such attitudes. The film, “Carl

Rogers Counsels an IndividuaI: A nger an d Hurt,” of which considerable

portions a r e published in The

Comprehensive

extbook of Pgychiatry/ZZI

1980),

how tha t I was responsive

t

both a nger and

to

the pain t ha t was

discovered

t

be underlying it.

I

believe

I

have learned

t

be

acceptant of

ange r toward m e and toward others. The re may be tru th in wh at you say,

th at client-centered t her api sts have a tendency not t accept or respond

to such feelings. If

so

I regret this as much

as

you.

Now I

would like

to

t u r n ta the m ore fundamental issue.

You

have

never seemed to ca re whether the evil impulses in ma n are genetic and

inherent or whether they are acquired after birth. Fo r you they ar e ust

there. Fo r me their origin m akesagreatdeal of difference ph il m ph ic al -

1s;

I

would like

t

t r y

to

clarify my reasons.

I

feel th at the tendency

toward actualization is inherent, I n this, man is like all othe r organisms.

I can count on i t being present. It may ta ke biza rre an d futile forms. I

have given an examp le of t he

potatoes

n a basement bin, se nding their

feeble white sprouts up w ard in a futile effort to reach the light. I feel

similarly about the deprived ghetto youth whose only path to ego


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arl

R.RoQer8 87

enhancement is to be the best m ugger or the most da rin g bu rgla r in his

gang. My at titu de is sifnilar toward the psychotic in

a

back wa rd w ho is

Jesus Christ. But the' basic, actualizing tendency operates toward

fulfillment.

I find in my experience no such innate tendency toward destructive-

ness, toward evil. I cannot count on the certainty th a t this individual is

str ivi ng consciously or unconsciously to fulfill an evil nature. 1do not

find this in animals either. T he re is, however, one ra re exception which

has s tuck in my m ind.

I

saw

a

television show

of

African wild dogs. Th ere

was one female who was jealous of another. W hen t h e second female was

absen t from her den, the firs t would go nto the den , remove one of the

cubs, and kill it. This went on day after day until the litte r was totally

destroyed.

I

can stiIl rem em ber my shock a t tha t, because it is so

uncharacteristic of anim als. They kill, but normally only in the interest

of actualizing themselves.

I

gath er t ha t you

feel

th e cent ral tendency in

human nature is a dual one, aim ing both toward creative grow th and

destructive evil. With the exception I have jus t mentioned, I don't find

th at describes animal behavior, or plant behavior, or hu m an behavior.

If

the elements making for grow th a re present, th e actualizing tendency

develops in positive ways. I n t he hu m an these elements for growth a re

not only proper nutrition, etc., bu t a clim ate of psychological attitudes .

So, how do I account for th e evil behavior th at issoobviously presen t

in ou r world? In my experience, every person has t he capacity for evil

behavior. I and others, have had murderous and cruel impulses, desires

tohu rt, feelings

of anger

and rag e, desires to mpose ou r wills on others.

I t is well

to

be ar in mind th at I also have

a

capacity

to

vomit, for example.

Whether I , or anyone, will translate these impulses into behavior

depends, it seems to me, on two elements: social conditioning and

voluntary choice. Pe rha ps we c an use Hit ler

as

a n example. H is early

personal life a nd social circumstances certainly made it na tura l th at he

would try to fulfill himself by being a big-shot, a leader full of hatred

tow ard those he perceived

as

esponsible for his humiliation. B ut beyond

tha t, in a cts like the decision to ext erm ina te the Jews, a personal choice

for which he was responsible was also a very re al factor.

I believe that, theoretically at least, every evil behavior is bro ug ht

about by varying degrees of these elements.

I will adm it that there is much I don't understand abou t some evil

behaviors. T he experimen ts by M ilgram and Zimbardo are a shocking


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88

Reply

puzzle t me, as hey were to the experimenters. Certainly Milgram’s

subjects we re influenced by ou r education for conformity and Zim bar-

do’s subjects by ou r-tr ain ing in prejudice. But

I

would agree with you

th at those scarcely seem like ad equa te explanations.

It is interesting that in our decisions about what to do abou t evil

behavior and evil situations, we seem rem arka bly similar . We take th e

best action we can see t oppose evil, to destroy the causes, tot r y to reach

people who are acting in hurtful ways. I am pleased that

I

had the

opportunity t work with groups composed of hostile and feuding

individuals whose evil intentions toward one another w ere very evident.

I n a grou p we worked with from Belfast, which included both Catholic

and Protestant extremists as well

as

moderates. a Protestant young

woman said in one of th e earlysessions, “If awounded IRA man were lying

before m e on the stre et, I would step on him” This was typical of someof

the bitter feelings expressed. Yet in a climte of understanding and

acceptance those people changed

so

much in attitu des in a sho rt sixteen

hours of contact that when they went back

to

BeIfast they worked in

tea m s of two

to

show the film to grou ps in the in te rest of reconciliation.

So I

don’t for one m inute ag ree th at humanistic psychology,

at

least my

kind of humanistic psychology, “cuts the nerve of social action.” It

enhances social action.

You talk

at

some length abou t the transformation th at

I

believe is

coming to our world. H ere I am much influenced by th e thin kin g of men

like Prigogine. T he cu rr en t pertu rbati ons in our society and in our world

do seem

to

m e to pred ict th at the re isa n inevitablesocial transformation

coming. In chem istry, and

I

believe in our cu ltu re, these ex trem es of

perturbation lead toa reorganization, t a high er level of order. As o the

person of tomorrow, I think you qu ite misunderstand m y description of

th at person. I was spea king of the person who wouId be f i t to live in the

transformed world, not the average person, and though

I

believe

a

transformation is inevitable, it certainly will not be a socially construc-

tive transformation unless we

all

give it every effort. Th ere

I

think we

can

agree

Curiously enough ther e is one minor point on which

I

think you a re

much t optimistic. You speak twice of our culture deteriorating or

disin tegra ting like the c ultur es of Greece and Rome. I think that is a

possible scenario, bu t it is not w ha t will happen if we hav ea nuc lear war.

I n th at case, our cu ltu re will be utte rly obliterated.

It

will not simply

dete riora te or disintegrate.




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Curl

R.

Roger8

89

Rollo, you have raised many profound points and this is I am well

awa re, a hasty and in g e q u a te reply. Yet

I

hope th at between th e two

documents people will be st irr ed to constructive thought. As1 said in my

earlier published rem ark s abo ut you, you have been a g re at contributor

t

hum anistic psychology and

I

value you very much for that. I hold you

in affectionate regard.

Sincerely,

Carl Rogers


Resposta Rogers a May

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