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Nov 6, 2009, 07:33 PM #1

albertus magnusLos Indios Bravos

Join Date: Jul 2009Location: Maharloka,Mu

Prehispanic Philippines

From this link...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippines

Quote:

In the dawning of the 1st Millennium C.E., there were already several maritime

civilizations existing in the islands but there was no unifying political state

encompassing the entire Philippine ar chipelago. Instead, the region was dotted

by numerous semi-autonomous barangays (villages/city-states) under the

sovereignty of competing thalassocracies ruled by Datus, Rajahs or Sultans

or by upland agricultural societies ruled by petty plutocrats. States: such asthe Kingdom of Maynila and Namayan, the Dynasty of Tondo, the

Confederation of Madyaas, the Rajahnates of Butuan and Cebu and the

sultanates of Maguindanao and Sulu existed alongside the highland soc ieties

of the Ifugao and Mangyan.[25][26][27][28] Some of these regions were part of

the Malayan empires of Srivijaya, Majapahit and Brunei.[29][30][31]

In the year 900 the Dynasty of Tondo centered in Manila Bay flourished via an

active trade with Chinese sea-traders in the area. Later serving as a

smuggling nexus after the Chinese imposed restrictions on their foreign trade.

[32] During this time, the Lord-Minister, Jayadewa: presented a document of

debt forgiveness to Lady Angkatan and her brother Bukah, the children of

Namwaran. This is described in the Philippine's oldest known document "The

Laguna Copperplate Inscription".[33]

A golden statuette of the Hindu-Buddhist goddess "Kinari".By year 1011 Rajah

Sri Bata Shaja, the monarch of the Indianized Rajahnate of Butuan, a martime-

state famous for it's goldwork[34] sent a trade envoy under ambassador

Likan-shieh to the Chinese Imperial Court demanding equal diplomatic status

with other states.[35] The request being approved, opened up direct

commercial links with the Rajahnate of Butuan and the Chinese Empire.Thereby diminishing the monopoly on Chinese trade by their rivals: the

Dynasty of Tondo and the Champa civilization.[36] Evidence for the existence

of this Rajahnate is proven by the "Butuan Silver Paleograph".[37]

By the 11th century several exiled datus of the collapsing empire of the

Srivijaya [38] led by Datu Puti led a mass migration to the central islands of the

Philippines, fleeing from Rajah Makatunao of the island of Borneo. Upon

reaching the island of Panay and purchasing the island from Negrito chieftain

Marikudo, they established a confederation of polities and named it the

Confederation of Madyaas centered in Aklan and they settled the surrounding

islands of the Visayas. This confederation reached it's peak under Datu

Padojinog and during his reign the c onfederations' hegemony ex tended over

most of the islands of Visayas and it's people consistently made piratical

attacks against Chinese Imperial s hipping.[39]

The flag of the Sulu sultanate.In 1380, Karim ul' Makdum and Shari'ful Hashem

Syed Abu Bakr, an Arab trader born in Johore, arrived in Sulu from Malacca

and established the Sultanate of Sulu and this Sultanate eventually gained great wealth due to its manufacture of fine pearls.[40] Also, at the end of the

15th Century Shariff Mohammed Kabungsuwan of Johor introduced Islam in

the island of Mindanao and he subsequently married princess Parmisuli from

Mindanao and established the Sultanate of Maguindanao.[41] Islam had spr ead

to other parts of the Visayas and Luzon by the 16th century.

However, during the reign of Sultan Bolkiah in 1485 to 1521, the Sultanate of

Brunei decided to break the Dynasty of Tondo's monopoly in the China trade

by attacking Tondo and establishing the state of Selurong (now Manila) as a

Bruneian s atellite-state.[42][43] A new dynasty under the Is lamized Rajah

Salila[44] was also established to challenge the House of Lakandula in Tondo.

[45] Islam was further strengthened by the arrival to the Philippines by traders

and proselytizers from Malaysia and Indonesia.[46]

To thresh out some inconsistencies(various sources have some

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inconsistencies, that's why):

Quote:

By the 11th century several exiled datus of the collapsing empire of the

Srivijaya [38] led by Datu Puti led a mass migration to the central islands of the

Philippines, fleeing from Rajah Makatunao of the island of Borneo. Upon

reaching the island of Panay and purchasing the island from Negrito chieftain

Marikudo, they established a confederation of polities and named it the

Confederation of Madyaas centered in Aklan and they settled the surrounding

islands of the Visayas. This confederation reached it's peak under Datu

Padojinog and during his reign the c onfederations' hegemony ex tended over

most of the islands of Visayas and it's people consistently made piratical

attacks against Chinese Imperial s hipping.[39]

the above needs to be verified from actual documents, and the source seems to

be from a collection of oral traditions now known as the Maragtas legend whichcertain historians like Willian H enry Scottto quote:

Quote:

William Henry Scott proved in his dissertation that Maragtas and the

Confederation of Madya-as were not actual ancient documents from long ago

but only legends that were collected and in some cases possibly concocted by

Pedro Monteclaro and published in 1907 in his book entitled Maragtas. As for

the Maragtas Code, Scott found that it was merely an invention of Guillermo

Santiago-Cuino's mind which was probably based on Monteclaro's book and

published in 1938.

The proper perspective would be if Monteclaro had good intentions is that theMaragtas is a collection of oral traditions and needs verifications from actual

documents or reconciling with the actual personae and events recorded. AndMadya-as seems like a play of words with Madjapahit. While Maragtas a play of

words with the Prince Balagtas of Madjapahit mentioned in the Will ofPansonum, another controversial piece of document. More on Prince Balagtaslater.

---Quote:

The flag of the Sulu sultanate.In 1380, Karim ul' Makdum and Shari'ful Hashem

Syed Abu Bakr, an Arab trader born in Johore, arrived in Sulu from Malacca

and established the Sultanate of Sulu and this Sultanate eventually gained

great wealth due to its manufacture of fine pearls.[40] Also, at the end of the

15th Century Shariff Mohammed Kabungsuwan of Johor introduced Islam in

the island of Mindanao and he subsequently married princess Parmisuli from

Mindanao and established the Sultanate of Maguindanao.[41] Islam had spr ead

to other parts of the Visayas and Luzon by the 16th century.

The Brunei Sultanate, the Sulu Sultanate,Johore Sultanate and the Malacca

Sultanate are coming from the same clan and founded by the same persons orblood relatives, resulting from the intermarriages of the Bisayan or Srivijayan

royalties with the Arabs, Hindus and the Chinese.----

Quote:

However, during the reign of Sultan Bolkiah in 1485 to 1521, the Sultanate of

Brunei decided to break the Dynasty of Tondo's monopoly in the China trade

by attacking Tondo and establishing the state of Selurong (now Manila) as a

Bruneian s atellite-state.[42][43] A new dynasty under the Is lamized Rajah

Salila[44] was also established to challenge the House of Lakandula in Tondo.

[45] Islam was further strengthened by the arrival to the Philippines by traders

and proselytizers from Malaysia and Indonesia.[46]

Seludong or Saludung or Selurong was not established by Sultan

Bolkeiah/Ragam/Raja Baguinda/Gat Lontok of Manila, Maguindanao,Sulu andBrunei or to be specific: Paduka Sri Baginda Rajah dan yang di Pertuan

Bulkiah, known better in Southeast Asian History as Nakhoda Ragam (theSinging Captain). The Majapahitan and the Srivijayans would call the AncientKingdom ofLusung or Luzon by thatname Seludong. Manila was established

by Ragam after vanquishing Datu Gambang, the ruler of the Kingdom ofSelurong/Luzon(whose eastern capital was Tondo) via his son named Selalila

or Soliman I (accdg to the Will of Pansonum). Some source would say thatSelalila or Sri Lela or Pengiran Maharaja Lela or Sulaiman I was (W)Ong Sum

Ping,a Chinese prince of the Ming dynasty, the Chinese uncle of Sultan

Bolkeiah. So, another inconsistency.http://malaysiana1.blogspot.com/2008/04/br...-brudirect.html As some historians

would confuse the founding of Manila with Ong Sum Ping, perhaps it should becredited only to the son of Ragam and not to the uncle. So, Selalila and Srilela

are two persons and not the same person, the former being the son of Ragam while the latter,the uncle. So, the Will of Pansonum seems more accurate. Or

perhaps the idea of invading Selurung or Luzon and the establishment ofManila was the idea of the Chinese uncle who acted as Naval commander.

http://melayuonline.com/eng/article/read/637 orhttp://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/...d.php?t=412057

Quote:

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According to Henson, he was the third Sulaiman to rule the Islamic Kingdom of

Manila. The first was Sulaiman I, a grandson of Emperor Anka Widjaya, the

last King of Majapahit and Empress Sa Saban of the Kingdom of Sapa (now

Sta. Ana, Manila)[16] He married Princess Ysmeria and they had three sons;

Sulaiman II, Matanda and Lakandula. After Sulaiman II died, he was

succeeded by his son, Sulaiman III. After some time, Martin de Goiti, Legaspi's

master of camp, and the Spaniards arrived in Manila Bay in 1570 A.D., Raja

Sulaiman III and his aging uncle were ruling the Kingdom of Manila. It is

interesting to note that Raja Sulaiman III married a Brunei princess, a daughter

of Sultan Abdul Kahar.[17]

It was also claimed that Sulaiman (Sulaiman bin Mahmud) was the fourteenth

successor of Raja Ahmad, who reportedly established the Islamic principality

of Manila in 1258 with temporal power covering Luzon and the Visayas.

Moreover, Raja Ahmad was from Brunei and had vanquished RAJA

AVIRJIRKAYA of Manila, who was supposed to be under the suzereinty of

MADJAPAHIT Empire.[18]

An inconsistency was made by the Muslim Historian Rodil confusing HaringAraw of Borneo as the Madjapahit/Majapahit emperor Angka Widjaya. Because

there is another person by the name of Prince Balagtas as the son and notSelalila or Sulaiman I.Accdg to the will of Pansonum,the sister ofSulaiman I by

the name of Lady or Dayang Panginoan was the wife of Prince Balagtas. SoPrince Balagtas was a brother in law of Soliman I. Another confusion made bythe Muslim Historian was the confounding of Pansonum aka Fernando Malang

Balagtas as no other than Lakandula. Pansonum was a grandson of PrinceBalagtas while Lakandula was a son of Sulaiman I, the brother-in-law of Prince

Balagtas. A descendant of Prince Balagtas was credited for the founding ofNamayan by the name of Lakan Takhan(Tagean) as the same manner another

descendant Malangsik http://us.geocities.com/kapampanganx/s7_1.htmlfounded the towns of Kandaue (Candaba),Purak (Porac), Macabebe, Baba(Lubao), Pinpin (Sta. Ana), Betis, Uaua (Guagua) and Balayan ning Pambuit

(Arayat).There has been a confusion of three kingdoms(city-states) in Manila, i.e

Kingdom of Tondo, Kingdom of Manila,and Kingdom of Namayan. So fromabove, you can see the relationships. the Kingdom ofSapa(Zabag?) is

synonymous with the Kingdom of Lusung or Selurung and Namayan which is

now Sta. Ana was partof that bigger polity, Kingdom of Sapa.Tondo was acapital of Selurung(Lusong or Kingdom of Sapa) and nota separate Kingdom.While Manila was a city-state founded by Ragam with his son, Soliman I and his

uncle Srilela or Ong Sum Ping.

Quote:

The name MANILA itself comes from the Arabic word which means

Fiamanillah "In the s helter of G od."

http://ms.wikipedia.org/wiki/ManilaThe above looks or sounds more accurate than the commonly accepted

etymology of Manila from May-nilad or 'there is a nilad plant'.Just like its mother, Brunei Darrusalam came from Hindu and Arab words which



m ea ns ty o e ac e a ru ss a a m o t e p eo p e o a ru na a ru na - . a ru na sa Hindu God.

In the same manner, other historians would confuse Seludong w ith Manila.

http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/...7446/Ragam.htm orhttp://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/...d.php?t=412057

Quote:

Ako si sultan Bulkeiah sa Borneo, na naghahari mula sa lungsod ng

kapayapaan, Dar es Salam, sa dalampasigan ng Brunei. Sa Magindanaw at sa

Sulu, na kinakikitaan ng unang liwanag ng walang katulad kong asawa,

Emperatris Lela Men Chanei, ay tinatawag akong Raha Baginda. At ngayon,

dito sa Maynila ay ako ang Sultan at Emperador.

Makalawang ulit nang s inalakay ng aking hukbong-dagat ang SELURUNG, na

tinatawag ninyong LUSUNG, at ngayon ay ako ang nagwagi at nakapanakop.

Ang mapanghamig na si Datu Gambang, ang inyong yumaong puno, ay walana, at ang isang prinsesa mula sa kanyang angkan ay aking pinakasalan

upang maipagpatuloy ang dinastiya ng Pasig.

A rough English translation of the above:

Quote:

I am Sultan Bolkeiah of Borneo, from the City of Peace, Darrusalam from the

coast of Brunei. In Maguindanao and Sulu, which witnessed the radiance of my

wife, Empress Lela Men Chanei, I am known as Raja Baginda. And now, here

in Manila, I am Sultan and Emperor.

Selurung, which you called Lusung(Luzon), was twice invaded by my naval

fleet. And now, I am victorious and have conquered. The ruthless Datu

Gambang, your deceased ruler, is now dead and I have married his daughter

from his clan in order to continue the dynasty of Pasig.

Saludong, Selurung, and variations of it were mentioned by various historiansmostly from Brunei as the Kingdom of Luzon whom Ragam or Nakhoda or

Bulkiah invaded. And the same Saludong was mentioned in the Majapahitdocument Nagarakertagama http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagarakertagama

Quote:

In Canto 14 of Nagarakertagama more territories are mentioned:

Kadandangan, Landa, Samadang, Tirem, Sedu (Sarawak), Barune (Brunei),

Kalka, SALUDONG, Solot (Sulu), Pasir Barito, Sawaku, Tabalung, and

Tanjung Kutei. In Hujung Medini (Malay Peninsula), Pahang is mentioned first.

Next Langkasuka, Saimwang, Kelantan and Trengganu, Johor, Paka, Muar,

Dungun, Tumasik (where Singapore is today), Kelang (Klang valley) and

Kedah, Jerai, Kanjapiniran, all are united.

Thus, Selurung or Luzon kingdom had alliance with Majapahit. Well, the

intermarriages between Balagtas with Panginoan and before that by his father,

Widjaya with Dayang or Lady Sa-saban of the Kingdom of Sapa(kingdomsynonymous to Selurung or Luzon)could be considered as proof if thesedocuments were authentic and not just some quasi-historical documents as

William Henry Scottreferred to some of these tarsilas or geneaologies.

Still controversial, if Srivijayan capital is Palembang for in certain Chinese writings, Pa-linfong or Palembang was just a dependency of Sanfotsi which is

the other name of Srivijayas. Could it be in later times, the capital wastransferred there?Sanfotsi is the same as what the early Arabs called Zabag. Someone intuited

with logical validations, that the original capital of Sanfotsi/Zabag/Srivijaya would be somewhere in the vicinity of the localities mentioned in the Laguna

Copperplate insciption (somewhere in the Macabebe-HagonoySabang/Sapa/estuarine areas) or could be one and the same as Ibn battuta's

Kingdom of Tawalisi or could be somewhere in the Visayas -laugh

btw, Paduka Sri Baginda Rajah dan yang di Pertuan Bulkiah, known better in

Southeast Asian History as Nakhoda Ragam (the Singing Captain) bragged likemany rulers from the same clan, the Sultans of the various Sultanates of Johore,

Malacca/Melaka, Aceh, that they had lineages with Alexander the Great and tothe prophet of Islam. But mostof all He was very proud ofhis Sri Bisayan

lineage.He wore the Chawat with great dignity. -laugh

What's with this fixation with 'BAHAG' or 'CHAWAT'? -elaugh

It's like a 'phallic symbol'. The longer the bahag or the chawat, the more royal

blood. he he

It was a symbol of "bisayan" royalty.

http://www.fullbooks.com/The-Pagan-T...f-Borneo1.html

Quote:

How early the Arab doctrines were taught in Brunei is impossible to state with

any precision. Local tradition ascribes their introduction to the renowned Alak

ber Tata, afterwards known as Sultan Mohammed. Like most of his subjects

this warrior was a BISAYA, and in early life he was not a Mohammedan, not

indeed a civilised potentate at all, to judge by conventional standards; for the

CHIEF MARK OF HIS ROYAL DIGNITY was an IMMENSE CHAWAT, or loin-

cloth, carried as he walked by eighty men, forty in front and forty behind. He is



,

fact to be accounted for partly by the brilliance of his exploits

The Loincloth of Borneo...

http://www.ikanlundu.com/literary/borneo_loincloth.html

http://www.fullbooks.com/The-Pagan-T...f-Borneo1.html

Quote:

Thus the present royal house of Brunei is derived from three sources -- Arab,

BISAYA, and Chinese. The coronation ceremony as still maintained affords an

interesting confirmation of this acc ount.

On that occasion the principal minister wears a turban and Haji outfit, the two

next in rank are dressed in Chinese and Hindu fashion, while the fourth wears

a CHAWAT over his trousers to represent the BISAYAS; and each of these

ministers declares the Sultan to be divinely appointed.

Then after the demonstration of loyalty the two gongs -- one from

MENANGKABAU, the other from JOHORE -- are beaten, and the Moslem high

priest proclaims the Sultan and preaches a sermon, declaring him to be a

descendant of Sri Turi Buana, the PALEMBANG SRIVIJAYAN chief w ho

founded the early k ingdom of Singapore in 1160 A.D., who r eigned in that

island for forty-eight years, and whose descendants became the royal family

of MALACCA.

http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/...7446/Ragam.htm orhttp://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/...d.php?t=412057

Quote:

... ikinararangal kong masabing sa aking mga ugat ay dumadaloy ang dugo ng

isang BISAYA. Tuwing dadalaw sa aking kaharian ang mga sugong ****** at

Arabe, ang pinakamahalagang palamuti nila'y ang mahabang CHAWAT, na

laging itinataas sa harapan ko ng apatnapu katao. Kapag iyo'y ibinigkis ko sa

aking baywang upang humanda sa pakikitalad, ang pagkakabigkis ay maayos

at ang paghahamok ay laging pinagtatagumpayan...

Mula sa Malaka hanggang Maynila ay kilalaang lahat ang pangalang Nakoda

Ragam na kanilang pinanganganinuhan...

rough English translation

Quote:

I am proud that from my veins flowed the blood of a BISAYA. When the

ambassadors from China and Arabia would come, the most important

insignia/emblem is the long CHAWAT, which is always raised from my front by

40 people....

From MALACCA TO MANILA, THE NAME NAKODA RAGAM WILL BE WELL

KNOWN AS THEIR LORD

Copperplate found in Laguna (900 AD)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laguna_...te_Inscription

Quote:

Long Live! Year of Syaka 822, month of Vaisakha, according to Jyotisha

(Hindu astronomy). The fourth day of the waning moon, Monday. On this

occasion, Lady Angkatan, and her brother whose name is Bukah, the children

of the Honourable Namwaran, were awarded a document of complete pardon

from the Commander in Chief of Tundun, represented by the Lord Minister of

Pailah, Jayadewa. By this order, through the scribe, the Honourable

Namwaran has been forgiven of all and is released from his debts and arrears

of 1 Katî and 8 Suwarna before the Honourable Lord Minister of Puliran

Kasumuran by the authority of the Lord Minister of Pailah. Because of his

faithful service as a subject of the Chief, the Honourable and widely renowned

Lord Minister of Binwangan recognized all the living relatives of Namwaran

who were claimed by the Chief of Dewata, represented by the Chief of

Medang. Yes, therefore the living descendants of the Honourable Namwaran

are forgiven, indeed, of any and all debts of the Honourable Namwaran to the

Chief of Dewata. This, in any case, shall declare to whomever henceforth that

on some future day should there be a man who claims that no release from the

debt of the Honourable...

The Pallava script or Kavi script, was the sophisticated script used by the royals

and the Scholars as seen in the Laguna Copperplate inscription. While themasses used a much simpler and easier to learn, baybayin script. The twoscripts, the sophisticated one and a simpler one could have existed side by

side. Could the sophisticated script and the language used in the LagunaCopperplate Inscription be the lingua franca throughout Maritime Southeast

Asia, of the Malayan thallosocracy called Srivijayas.

Somehow, after the rise to power in the Philippine isles of Nakoda Ragam akaPaduka Sri Baginda Rajah dan yang di Pertuan Bulkiah, Islamization must havestopped the use of that scholarly Hindu or Sanskrit script and perhaps the royals

adopted instead the Arabic script while the masses retain their indigenous

baybayin script. The natives were still practicing animistic or shamanistic beliefs while their royals practiced the official Islam religion and before Islamization, the

Austronesian royals professed Hinduism, Jainism, or Buddhism(Hindu, Tantricor Buddhist Tara images were found all over the Philippine isles



http://asiapacificuniverse.com/pkm/tech.htm#sculp orhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DIwuvg_VnU ). The coming o f the Spaniard

stopped the tide of Islamization making a stronger foothold to the masses andthe indigenous people.

[/quote]

>>>Concerning geopolitics prior or during the early western colonization of theEast Indies...

Quote:

Controlling the Straits of Malacca

As evidenced by history, the country that succeeded in controlling the narrow

strait between the Malay Peninsula and the island of Sumatra would gain

complete control of China's maritime silk route and thus become a

thalossocracy - a trading empire. The Srivijaya of South Sumatra did so in 670

AD, the Chola of Southeast India in 1026 AD, the Madjapahit of Java in 1343

AD, the Sultanate of Malacca in 1400 AD, and finally the Portuguese in 1512

AD.*17

When the Portuguese arrived in Southeast Asia in 1500 AD, they witnessed

Lusung's active involvement in the political and economic affairs of those who

sought to take control of this economically strategic highway. For instance, the

former sultan of Malacca decided to retake his city from the Portuguese with a

fleet of ships from Lusung in 1525 AD.*18 In 1529 AD, the Sultanate of Atjeh on

the northern tip of Sumatra became powerful enough to consider controlling

the Straits of Malacca. Lusung ships formed part of the Atjehnese fleet that

attacked key settlements along the straits. At the same time, Lusung warriors

formed part of the opposing Batak-Menangkabau army that besieged Atjeh.*19

On the mainland, Lusung warriors aided the Burmese king in his invasion of

Siam in 1547 AD. At the same time, Lusung warriors fought alongside the

Siamese king and faced the same elephant army of the Burmese king in the

defence of the Siamese capital at Ayuthaya.*20

The Portuguese were not only witnesses but also direct beneficiaries of

Lusung's involvement. Many Lucoes, as the Portuguese called the people of Lusung, chose Malacca as their base of operations because of its strategic

importance. When the Portuguese finally took the Malacca in 1512 AD, the

resident Lucoes held important government posts in the former sultanate.

They were also large-scale exporters and ship owners that regularly sent

junks to China, Brunei, Sumatra, Siam and Sunda. One Lusung official by the

name of Surya Diraja annually sent 175 tons of pepper to China and had to

pay the Portuguese 9000 cruzados in gold to retain his plantation. His ships

became part of the first Portuguese fleet that paid an official visit to the

Chinese empire in 1517 AD.The Portuguese were soon relying on the Lusung

bureaucrats for the administration of Malacca and on Lusung warriors, ships

and pilots for their military and commercial ventures in East Asia. It was

through the Lucoes who regularly sent ships to China that the Portuguese

discovered the ports of Canton in 1514 AD.*22 And it was on Lusung ships

that the Portuguese were able to send their first diplomatic mission to China

1517 AD. The Portuguese had the Lucoes to thank for when they finally

established their base at Macao in the mid-1500s.

When the Spaniards finally conquered Lusung in 1571 AD, they found 20

Japanese residents living in Mainila.*36 One of them was a Christian. When

the displaced lords of Lusung decided to expel the Spaniards in 1588 AD, one

of the masterminds of the plot was a Japanese Christian and arms dealer named Juan Gayo.*37 From then on they began to fear Japanese involvement

in Lusung's affairs.

In 1591 AD, the unifier of Japan, Toyotomi Hideyoshi, sent an arrogant letter to

the Spanish governor of Manila demanding that Lusung submits to his rule or

risk an invasion. At the same time, the Cambodian King Phra Unkar Langara

sent a gift of two royal elephants, gems and horses to the lords of Lusung to

petition them to aid him in the war against Siam. The Spanish governor

responded to Manila responded to the petition of the Cambodian king by

sending two large Lusung war junks called viray loaded 120 Spaniards and a

number of Japanese and Lusung warriors.*38

source: http://nippihistory.hp.infoseek.co.jp/lusunghis-e.htm

Last edited by albertus magnus : Nov 7, 2009 at 12:15 PM.

Nov 6, 2009, 07:46 PM #2

retxedMember

Join Date:Oct 2008

uy new topic....letme read first, then i'll comment!but di ko pa nabasa eh, but iactually commend you albertus_magnus, your topics are worth a second look!pasok na ko...will read more tom pag-uwe...

Nov 6, 2009, 08:17 PM #3




Join Date: Jul 2009

Location: Maharloka,Mu

Quote:

Originally Posted by retxed uy new topic....let me read first, then i'll comment! but di ko pa nabasa eh, but i

actually commend you albertus_magnus, your topics are worth a second look!

pasok na ko...will read more tom pag-uwe...

thanks!

more to come...

Namaste

Nov 6, 2009, 08:20 PM #4



Is the folklore about Princes Urduja have historical basis?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urduja

Quote:

Urduja (ca. 1350 C.E - 1400 C.E.), is a legendary warrior-princess who is

recognized as a heroine in Pangasinan, Philippines. The name Urduja appears

to be Sanskrit in origin, and a variation of the name "Udaya," meaning "arise"

or "rising sun," or the name "Urja," meaning "breath." A historical reference to

Urduja can be found in the travel account of Ibn Battuta (1304 - possibly 1368

or 1377 C.E.), a Muslim traveler from Morocco.Contents

1 Ibn Battuta

2 Research

3 Animated film

4 See also

5 References

6 External links

[edit] Ibn Battuta

Ibn Battuta described Urduja as the ruler of Kaylukari in the land of Tawalisi.

After reaching Samudra in what is now Sumatra, Ibn Battuta passed by

Tawalisi on his way to China. Princess Urduja was described as a daughter of

a ruler named Tawalisi of a land that was also called Tawalisi. The ruler of

Tawalisi, according to Ibn Battuta, possessed many ships and was a rival of

China, which was then ruled by a Mongol dynasty.[1] Ibn Battuta sailed for 17

days to reach China from the land of Tawalisi.[2]

Ibn Battuta made a pilgrimage to Mecca and he traveled to many other parts of

the Islamic world. From India and Sumatra, Ibn Battuta reached the land of

Tawalisi. Ibn Battuta described Urduja as a warrior princess whose army was

composed of men and women. Urduja was a woman warrior who personally

took part in the fighting and engaged in duels with other warriors. She was

quoted as saying that she will marry no one but him who defeats her in duel.

Other warriors avoided fighting her for fear of being disgraced.[3]

Urduja impressed Ibn Battuta with her military exploits and her ambition to lead

an expedition to India, known to her as the "Pepper Country." She alsoshowed her hospitality by preparing a banquet for Ibn Battuta and the crew of

his ship. Urduja generously provided Ibn Battuta with gifts that included robes,

rice, two buffaloes, and four large jars of ginger, pepper, lemons, and

mangoes, all salted, in preparation for Ibn Battuta's sea-voyage to China.[4]

[edit] Research

Modern research indicates Ibn Batutta's story of Urduja to be pure fiction and

the land of Tawalisi to be similarly fictitious. [5]

However, in the late 19th Century, Jose Rizal, national hero of the Philippines,

who was also a respected scholar but who did not have access to the

sources William Henry Scott accessed, speculated that the land of Tawalisi

was in the area of the northern part of the Philippines, based on his calculation

of the time and distance of travel Ibn Battuta took to sail to China from Tawalisi.

In 1916, Austin Craig, a historian of the University of the Philippines, in "The

Particulars of the Philippines Pre-Spanish Past," who also did not have access

to the sources William Henry Scott accessed, traced the land of Tawalisi and

Princess Urduja to Pangasinan. Philippine school textbooks used to include

Princess Urduja in the list of great Filipinos. In the province of Pangasinan, the

capitol building in Lingayen is named "Urduja Palace." A statue of PrincessUrduja stands at the Hundred Islands National Park in Pangasinan.

The description of Princess Urduja's gifts of rice, buffaloes, ginger, pepper,

lemons, mangoes, and salt fits Pangasinan perfectly because of the

abundance of those products in Pangasinan. The closely related Ibaloi people

have an oral tradition of a woman named Udayan who ruled an ancient alliance

of lowland and highland settlements in Pangasinan and the neighboring

province of Benguet. Ibn Battuta also mentioned that Ur duja had some

knowledge of Turkish. During the time of Ibn Battuta period, the influence of the

Turkish Ottoman Empire was on the rise.

Ibn Batutta's travel account suggests that he also saw elephants in the land

ruled by Urduja. Elephants can still be found in Borneo, and may have been

gifts or traded in Pangasinan in earlier times. Ancient Malayo-Polynesian

sailing vessels, like the ones used by the ancient Bugis and those depicted in

the Borobudur bas-reliefs, were capable of transporting heavy cargoes,



including elephants. There are depictions of such ancient ships in maritime

Southeast Asia transporting several elephants for trade.

In Pangasinan, Urduja has been depicted as the only daughter of a Rajah

whose sons lost their lives defending their agricultural settlements in the Agno

River valley and sea trade routes to their Srivijaya and Champa allies. Urduja

was trained in the art of war since she was a child, and she became an expert

with the kampilan and a skilled navigator. She commanded a fleet of proas to

protect their maritime trade networks against pirates and threats from Mongol

ruled China. With her beauty, she attracted many suitors

Dr Jose Rizal on Tawalisi ... http://www.urduja.com/princess.html

Quote:

The Philippines' national hero Dr. Jose Rizal, in Dr. Austin Craig's 1916 paper

"Particulars of the Philippines' Pre-Spanish Past" was quoted as saying in one

of his letters: "While I may have doubts regarding the accuracy of Ibn Batuta's

details, I still beleive in the voyage to Tawalisi". He went as far as to calculate

the distance and time of travel from the port of Kakula. Rizal's commentary

was triggered by a scholar, Sir Henry Yule, who wrote in his time that:

"Tawalisi may be found only in a Gulliver geography."

Let's see...

- A rival of China, which was then ruled by the Mongolians

- a desire to conquer the pepper country now called India(formerly British India

with now Malaysia)

- possessed many paraos or sea-going vessels for trade and alliance purposes

All appears like sri-Bisayan este Srivijayan to me. he he

Coedes termed Srivijayas to refer to an alliance of rajanates then known to theearly Arabs as Zabag or known to the early chinese as Shilifoshi or TAWALISHIor Sanfoqui or Sanfotsi, whose ruler was known as the Maharaja.

This folkloric legend could be an allusion to the actual historical persons andevents.

The people of Sanfotsi accdg to the early chinese writers rode in Posse ships

which was wrongly translated as Persian ships perhaps because of the allianceof Sanfotsi with the Persian Sayabiga forerunner of the Assassins, allies of the

Knight templars.

Sanfotsi or Srivijayan elements in Lusung must be gone after the Pinatubo

eruption and Islamization during the invasion of Raja Baguinda of Sulu andMaguindanao also known as Sultan Bolkeiah or Nakhoda Ragam of the

Sultanate of Brunei.

In fairness to Rizal, the late William Henry Scott also didn't have accessed to theLaguna copperplate Inscription as well as the early chinese and arab writings

though he possessed much greater access to the early spanish and portuguesedocuments or writings pertaining to the Philippine isles which Rizal had no full

access at thattime.

Jose Rizal would not waste his time about Battuta's travel ifhe didn't believe itexcept for the gross exaggerations.Urduja, of course was not the real name.The name of the princess is written in Arabic consonants equivalent to English

GTRDJ or WHRDJ which was read by Dr. Jose Rizal and other authors duringhis time as Wahi Arduja and later it is read as Urduja.

Kingdom of Luzon and Urduja: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Tondo

Quote:

Tondo achieved its greatest power during the reign of Rajah Lontok and his

consort Dayang Kaylangitan believing that she bore her talents from her

Tawalisi princess, Urduja which happened to be her ancestor through his

father Rajah G ambang.

Note: Gat Lontoc or Raja Lontok was no other than Paduka Sri Baginda Rajahdan yang di Pertuan Bulkiah or known better in Southeast Asian History as

Nakhoda Ragam (the Singing Captain), the Sultan of Brunei, Sulu,Maguindanao and Manila. He was the ancestor of Lakandula and Soliman. Hedefeated Raja Gambang and married the latter's daughter to continue the

lineage of Lusung Kingdom whose capital was Tondo. (see my first postformore info)

A very intriguing article:

http://www.thedigitalpinoy.org/thread/11/3523?nav=last

Quote:

In Rihlah, the travelogue written by Ibn Battuttah, the name of the princess is

written in Arabic consonants equivalent to English GTRDJ or WHRDJ which

was read by Dr. Jose Rizal and other authors during his time as Wahi Arduja

and later it is read as Urduja. But this is wrong. the princess referred to was



e pr n c es s o av a aw a a a n r a c ; u - aw a s r e er r n g o um a r a

named Gitardja, the daughter of Singosari princess Gayatri and Raden Vijaya

(read in Chinese as Shih-lih-fu-shih or Ta-wa-lih-shih, Battuttah's Tawalisi). Ibn

Battuttah was widely known then as Sultan Bakhei in the area. This (Sri/Dyah)

Gitardja assumed the imperial title Tribuana Tunggadewi when she assumed

the throne in 1328 as a virgin Madjapahit Empress after the assassination of

her half-brother Jayanagara. She reigned as queen until 1350. She turned

over the crown to her son Hayam Wuruk...

The first story is about Princess Gayatri of Java taken by Marco Polo to China

and presented her to Kublai Khan as Chu-ko-Chen (Chou-kou-Tien) who is

destined to be wed to Arghun Khan of the Il-Khannate empire but in the course

of event she is taken by Raden Vijaya of Sumatra as wife forcing Marco Polo

to find a replacement for her. The second story is about Gitardja, her war, her

love story, and her reign with Gadja Mada, her Prime Minister whom she loved

dearly. And the third story is about Leila Manchinai, a Madjapahit princess who

is born in Banjarmasin (in Borneo) in the middle of a battle between the army of

the Bornean Sultan Sulayman (known also as Makatunaw) and the rebel

rajahs led by Rajah Puteh. She, as a baby, is left in a prau used by the fleeingmerchants who escaped with the fleeing rajahs to the Philippine islands. The

prau upon reaching the Sulu Archipelago meets a storm forcing the merchants

to go inward to Agusan River where it is fatally hit by the storm. But the baby

Leila Manchinai is washed ashore in the river bank and saved by the

bamboos. She is eventually found by the woman Tabunaway and her brother

Mamalu. This Tabunaway (Putri Tuniña) is married to an Arab Shariff

Muhammad Kabungsuwan who became the first Muslim sultan of Sulu. The

Sultan of Sulu then had an expedition to Manchina (the old name for Northern

China while China is referring only to Southern China at that time) to pay

homage to the Ming emperor. The girl Leila Mancinai is presented to the Ming

emperor as a gift and the emperor adopted her as his daughter. This princess,

turned a lovely lady, goes back to Sulu with her "younger brother" Kali Pula

(Antonio Pigafetta's Cilapulapu), the real s on of the Sulu Sultan. Bolkeiah

(Rajah Baginda/Nakoda Ragam/Parameswara, the one r eferred by Antonio

Pigafetta as Rajah Humabon, pronounced "Umabong") fell in love with Leila

Manchinai. After a lot of tests/tasks, Bolkeiah wins the hand of Leila Manchinai

but they have found out that they are brother and sister. This Leila Manchinai

is often referred as Putri Paramisuli, Hang Liu, Hang Li Po (Hang-cheu-fu, the

previous name of Peking or Beijing or the Tagalog phrase, "Sangli po" which

means a Chinese mestiza), Ming, and Amihan (the Queen Juana of Cebu and

the Layla Manjanay of the Tausugs in Sulu. It tells also about the conflict

between Bolkeiah and Kali Pula over the Sri Vijayan throne, the battle of

Mactan in Asian c ontext, and the death of Bolkeiah and Leila Manchinai

(Malay-Arabic for Northern Chinese Princess). I hope that you will be

enlightened. And I want you to remember that during that era Southeast Asia

was a one vast empire divided by many kingdoms and not by countries as we

often interpret it.

The above author may nothave he ard the possibility that zabag or Javaka is notJava but Savaka which is a Sanskrit word for people of Sabang,or People of

Sapa as in Kingdom of Sapa or Lusung Kingdom as it was known later.

Indian empires of the 12th centuryhttp://asiapacificuniverse.com/pkm/presterjohn.htm

Quote:

Was there any historical empire of the 12th century that indeed extended over

the Three Indias?

There was one maritime empire that could possibly fit if one only sees the

dominion extending to parts of the Three Indias. It was known in Chinese texts

as Sanfotsi and among the Muslims as Zabag.

Sanfotsi/Zabag could fit the bill if one accepts the historical texts at their word,

which not all modern scholars are willing to do.

Chinese geographical texts like the Chu-fan-chi (1225) of Chau Ju-Kua

mention that Sanfotsi ruled over numerous kingdoms within insular and

mainland Southeast Asia. They further extend the rule of this kingdom to Si-lan

or Ceylon.

The Muslim geography of al-Masudi confirms this latter claim when it states

that Zabag, widely c onsidered the equivalent of the Chinese Sanfotsi, ruled

over Sirandib, the Arabic name for Ceylon.

Furthermore, the geography of Ma Tuan-lin (circa 1200) states that Chou-lien,

was a vassal of Sanfotsi, verifying the same claim in the Sung-shih (960 -

1279). Chou-lien was the Chinese name for the Chola empire of India3. Again,

the Chinese claim is verified by Arab geographers who state that Kalikut was

among the dependencies of Zabag.

The Chola emperor Rajendrachola claimed to have made some conquests

himself in the East Indies. However, his statements have no support from

independent sources, i.e., Chinese, Muslim or other historians. Even

Rajendrachola's son only claimed one of these victories -- that of Kadaram,

possibly the state of Kataha in Malaysia.

The Chinese and Muslim accounts gain support from substantial evidence of

royal influence from insular Southeast Asia in India at this time. Pali texts from

13th century Ceylon mention "Savaka" princes on the island.

As mentioned earlier, Sanfotsi/Zabag was known by the Indians as

Suvarnadvipa:

"the eastern islands in this ocean (Sea of Champa), which are nearer to China



, , , , . .

the gold islands... because you obtain much gold as deposit if you wash only a

little of the earth of that country."

(Al-Biruni, 1030 AD)

The monarchs of Suvarnadvipa were very active among the Cholas. In 1005,

a Suvarnadvipa king built a Buddhist vihara in the Chola state, which the Chola

king granted revenues4. In 1014-1015, gifts were sent for a Hindu temple5,

and again in 1018-10196. In the 1080s, the king of Suvarnadvipa built the

foundation for a Buddhist temple in South India7.

If we accept the historical claims of the Chinese and Muslim texts, then two of

the three Indias would be covered so far. Or at least we can say that

Sanfotsi/Zabag extended over significant parts of these two Indias. But what

about the third India in East Africa?

We know that at an earlier period, Austronesian seafarers from insular Southeast Asia settled on the island of Madagascar forming the Malagasy-

speaking population of the island. However, not many people are aware of the

fact that during the medieval period, both regions maintained substanial

contact with each other.

The Book of the Wonders of India, written by a Muslim author mentions in 945

an expeditionary raid off the East African coast by a fleet of 1000 ships from

the East Indies. Centuries later in 1154, the Arab geographer Idrisi wrote in

Kitab Rujjar that "the people of the isles of Zabag come to the land of Zanj on

small and large ships...for they understand one another's languages." He also

states: "The residents of Zabag go to the land of Sofala (near Beira,

Mozambique) and export the iron from there supplying it to all the lands of

India. No iron is comparable to theirs in quality and sharpness."

Idrisi, whose patron was Roger II of Sicily, also states about trade expeditions

to Zanj: "The people of Komr (Khmer) and the merchants of the land of the

Mihraj (ruler of Zabag) come among them (the Zanj) and are well received and

trade with them."

Tanzanian traditions suggest that there was a settlement around Pemba and

Zanzibar of a people they called the Debuli from �Diba� and Jawa8. They

were supposed to be responsible for planting the coconut palms and mangoes

along the Tanzanian coast. As we will examine in the section on the spice

routes the relationship between the Tanzanian coast and the East Indies may

extend back into deep antiquity. There are different theories as to where Diba

and Jawa refer, but one possibility is that Diba is a form of Dabag, thought to

be a Nestorian corruption of Zabag. Jawa can refer to any number of East

Indian locations such as Java, Sabah, Davao, Toubok, etc. The Debuli were

said to be a seafaring people whose ships had sails of coconut palm fiber.

That the kingdom of Sanfotsi/Zabag extended over a vast region that might be

said to span the "Three Indias" we have this quote from Mas'udi:

"In the sea of Champa (eastern South China Sea) is the empire of Maharaja,

the king of the islands, who rules over an empire without limit and has

innumerable troops. Even the most rapid vessels could not complete in two

years a tour round the isles which are under his possesssion. The territories

of this king produce all sorts of spices and aromatics, and no other sovereign

of the world gets as much wealth from the soil."

(Mas'udi, 943)

http://asiapacificuniverse.com/pkm/lockingdom.htm

Quote:

In the previous articles we have attempted to show the general location of

medieval Sanfotsi/Zabag, which we also equate to Shambhala of the T ibetan

texts and Prester John's kingdom as mentioned in the medieval letters.

Now we will try to narrow down the location. As already mentioned, we believe

the principal port of Sanfotsi/Zabag was Lingayen in the Philippines. In the

Chinese records, the name is rendered Ling-ya-mon and located about a

month's sea journey due south of Tsu'an-chou.

Lingayen is located in northwest Luzon in the province of Pangasinan and is

perfectly situated as a transit route for trade between China and points south

and southeast, including the clove and nutmeg-bearing regions of Toupo.

However, the actual location of the king of Sanfotsi/Zabag may have been

different than Lingayen. Indeed, Ling-ya-mon was said to be a port of call

before entering Sanfotsi proper.

The capital of the empire was described by both Chinese and Muslim writers

as a sort of Venice of Southeast Asia, with people living on boats or homes

built over the water. The capital furthermore appeared to be located in a delta

area frequented by ships. According to Abu Zayd the city of the Mihraj, the

ruler of Zabag, was situated on an "estuary resembling the Tigris River which

passes Bagdad and Basra, and brings in salt water during the high tide and

sweet water during low tide."

Sulayman said that the capital of the Mihraj was located at a freshwater port

easily accessed from the sea. It was also said to "face" the southern coast of

China, i.e. it's location would be on the western side of an island opposite

(east/southeast of) the south China coast.

The nearest delta area to Lingayen is the Pampanga River system that runs



nto t e nor t er n an a ay . e a rea w as g y n uent a ur n g t e pan s

conquest of the Philippines, and was the scene of heavy resistance that

eventually forced the Spanish into a pacification treaty.

When the Spanish arrived in the Philippines, related peoples lived from the

Pampanga River delta region northward to the Gulf of Lingayen. The people

living in the region were still at that time conducting long distance trade

throughout Asia.

While the delta towns of Macabebe, Lubao and Betis boasted strong rulers and

garrisons, there is evidence that in earlier times a flourishing trade center

existed further north.

Prior to the eruption of Mt. Pinatubo around the 14th century, the area around

San Marcelino and Porac in the north had connection with the sea. In 1992,

after the eruption of Mt. Pinatubo, evidence of a trading post including an old

boat hull associated with Chinese ceramics and stone anchors was found.

Interestingly, these finds are in a region known by the name Sambal1.

According to geologists, before the medieval eruption of Pinatubo the sea

extended much closer to this region and presumably as the lahar filled in the

existing areas southward the delta civilization moved accordingly to maintain

their maritime trading enterprise.

However, the eruption apparently brought the trading civilization to a

temporary halt around the 14th century. The dating corresponds very well with

the time that Sanfotsi drops out of sight from Chinese historical literature.

The descriptions of Zabag tell of a constantly erupting volcano near the

kingdom. Something similar may be hinted at in the letters attributed to Prester

John which speak of rivers of sand or stone flowing from a mountain range

into a sea of sand/stones. The description resembles what happens when

lahar flows from a volcano to the ocean creating what looks like a "sea of

sand."

The res emblance of the name Sambal to Shambhala has additional

geographical significance in that the area consists of a mountainous range.

The snow-covered peaks of Shambhala even have a possible explanation.The modern er uption of Pinatubo left the Sambal mountain peaks capped with

grey/white layers of volcanic ash given a resemblance of snow. This might

explain how Shambhala could at the same time have snow-covered peaks and

lush tropical vegetation.

Chau Ju-Kua mentions that most people in the region had the surname "Pu." In

the Pampanga region, the honorific "Apu" is used before someone's name as a

sign of respect. The Chinese whose own surnames come at the beginning of

their names might have confused the honorific with a surname.

The medieval texts state that Sanfotsi/Zabag like Toupo to the southeast

consisted of a loosely confederated kingdoms that bonded together for

specific purposes. Interestingly, the system in this region at the time of the

Spanish arrival consisted of autonomous datus and rajas. These independent

entities though consulted with a special authority accepted by all when it came

to making new laws or addressing regional security concerns. This authority

not only approved new laws by the datus and rajas but also the regulations of

the native priests. Thus, he combined both temporal and sacredotal powers.2

There is substantial archaeological and linguistic evidence of Indic and

specifically Buddhist influence in the Luzon r egion in general although

admittedly much more work needs to be done. Most interesting are the

examples of Tantric jewelry that have been discovered in the Philippine region.

And there still needs to be confirmation regarding influence of Nestorian

Christianity in this area.

However, from the geographical and historical aspects, the Sambal region and

the Pampanga River delta are the best bets for the location of the capital of

Sanfotsi/Zabag with Lingayen as it's main port.

Last edited by albertus magnus : Nov 6, 2009 at 11:44 PM.

Nov 7, 2009, 02:01 AM #5

VagrantSoulMember

Join Date: Jul 2006

Whata great read!I am a history enthusiast myself (though I haven't been

reading such topics about our own nation) and knowing the history ofpre-hispanic Philippines is a blast! My mind right now is in a rush of imagining on

how would those kingdoms look like before the Spaniard arrived.

Great topic!

Nov 8, 2009, 11:17 PM #6




Join Date: Jul 2009


The Genealogy/ies of our Prehispanic royals

Note:firstchart is from the muslim historian Rodil,while, the second chart is a

rendition of the genealogy mentioned in the Will of Pansonum.Refer to the first post for more info about some inconsistency.

Nov 29, 2009, 02:12 PM #7

visionarylinker, visionary

Join Date: Nov 2006Location: Mundo Citizen

I had read years ago in an article published by Inquirer Mindanao written by a

researcher,an d his article mentioned that among the earliest settlers arrived inthe shores of Southern Mindanao, particularly near present-day Palembang,Sultan Kudarat (interestingly, Palembang in Sumatra was said to be the capital

of Sri-Vijayan empire, maybe the place was named after it by the natives) asearly as 5th century,from which the settlers of Luzon and Visayas came later.

There were also discoveries of well crafted ancient anthropomorphic clayfigures in Sarangani province in Southern Mindanao that were carbon dated tobe about 2000 yrs old!



Then there's the narrative of the Samal tribe in Davao that seemed very very oldfor they had mentioned the existence of ancient giants known as Dinagats

(similar to biblical nephilims?), who were eventually eliminated throughpoisoning by neighboring tribes for their misdeeds. There were actually

discoveries of giant skeleton remains in the islands even by foreignresearchers,but mostwere lost to robbers, and as usual,some authorities from

the mainstream Filipino academe, as well as commercialism-oriented, trashmedia hype influenced Philippine society seemed mediocre to otherwise further

verify and pursue these treasures of pre-colonial chapters in our history.

Last edited by visionarylink : Nov 30, 2009 at 05:08 AM.

Nov 29, 2009, 07:20 PM #8


Join Date: Jul 2009


Quote:

Originally Posted by visionarylink I had read years ago in an article published by Inquirer Mindanao written by a

researcher, and his article mentioned that among the earliest settlers arrived in

the shores of Southern Mindanao, particularly near present-day Palembang,

Sultan Kudarat (interestingly, Palembang in Sumatra was said to be the c apital

of Sri-Vijayan empire, maybe the place was named after it by the natives) as

early as 5th century, from which the settlers of Luzon and Visayas came later.

There were also discoveries of well crafted anthropomorphic clay figures in

Sarangani province in Southern Mindanao that were carbon dated to be about

2000 yrs old!

Then there's the narrative of the Samal tribe in Davao that seemed very very

old for they had mentioned the existence of ancient giants known as Dinagats

(similar to biblical nephilims?), who wer e eventually eliminated via poisoning by

neighboring tribes for their misdeeds. There were actually discoveries of giant skeleton remains in the islands even by foreign researchers, but most were

lost to robbers, and as usual, some authorities from the mainstream Filipino

academe, as well as commercialism-oriented, trash media hype influenced

Philippine society seemed mediocre to otherwise further verify and pursue

these treasures of pre-colonial chapters in our history.

It's time thatthe Filipino academe would dump their isolationistPre-Philippinesconcept and consider that the preHispanic Philippines was intimatelyconnected with its neighbors and mightbe partof the confederation of Madya-

pa-it(Madya-as) a nd/or Sri-Bisayas.

There is hope that we have in the UP academe by the name of Prof. Grace P.Odal who organized the FirstAlamat Conference. link>>

http://cas.upm.edu.ph/alamat/background.html

Hopefully, perhaps a person of your caliber can write a book to share the

knowledge we had gained.

Nov 29, 2009, 09:15 PM #9

visionarylinker, visionary

Join Date: Nov 2006

Location: Mundo Citizen

Quote:

Originally Posted by albertus ma gnusIt's time that the Filipino academe w ould dump their isolationist Pre-Philippines

concept and c onsider that the preHispanic Philippines was intimately

connected with its neighbors and might be part of the confederation of Madya-

pa-it(Madya-as) and/or Sri-Bisayas.

There is hope that we have in the UP academe by the name of Prof. Grace P.

Odal who organized the First Alamat Conference. link>>




That's interesting, however I believe you have very extensive sources ofinformation, in factI gained many insights with your posts (haven't even readeverything yet). It's also interesting that some of our personal researches tend to

fitlike jigsaw puzzle, perhaps a mark that we are on track.

But for the moment let us continue our discussion through this thread and alsoencourage others to contribute. We can make history here, through the internet

culture, as we seem to be discussing stuffs not oftentimes revealed inconventional history books and mainstream mediocre paradigms about thiscountry in which we refuse to compromise.

I also agree with you that mainstream academe of this country should dump

their isolationistconcept. Heck, don't they even have a clue that it had alwaysbeen innately ingrained in us and in our culture a cosmopolitan outlook? for the

moment the cosmopolitan past may indeed be reviving in practical manner in-



, -

Davao City is a major proponent.

Going on with our discussion and complementing also with your extensiveinformation, I was wondering if we could decipher further the role of the Sri-Vijayan and Majapahit Empires that you once mentioned were merged in this

island archipelago.

I remembered discussing with my cousin many years ago in Dumaguete as tothe origin of the word "Bisaya." she said her university once did a research

about it and that the word originated from the rivalry between ancient Ilonggosand Cebuanos. The Ilonggos often bragged that they belonged to the Sri-Vijayan empire. To intimidate them, the Cebuanos retaliated by connoting

anything of inferior quality as "Bisaya." However, through the years the wordseemed to backfire on the latter who were identified with it instead. The error

was further exacerbated with the rest of Visayan region dragged down, this time

by rift between Tagalogs and Cebuanos. Such misconception should berechecked and that the word Visayas actually originated from the regal source.As for the momentthe regional istic rift needs be resolved with more informationand less of bigotry and myopic mindsets.

It is undeniable however that Cebu also wield influence in the region. Albertus,

based on your extensive sources, could it be possible thatthey oncerepresented a contrasting subculture, perhaps of the Majapahit empire? It was

also notable that despite the rivalry, both competing peoples still co-existedpeacefully rather than engage in warfare. Perhaps this manifested the peacefulmerger between both empires as you once mentioned.


Nov 30, 2009, 04:44 AM #10

visionarylink

er, visionary

Join Date: Nov 2006Location: Mundo Citizen

Quote:

When the Portuguese arrived in Southeast Asia in 1500 AD, they witnessed

Lusung's active involvement in the political and economic affairs of those who

sought to take control of this economically strategic highway. For instance, the

former sultan of Malacca decided to retake his city from the Portuguese with a

fleet of ships from Lusung in 1525 AD.*18 In 1529 AD, the Sultanate of Atjeh on

the northern tip of Sumatra became powerful enough to consider controlling

the Straits of Malacca. Lusung ships formed part of the Atjehnese fleet that

attacked key settlements along the straits. At the same time, Lusung warriors

formed part of the opposing Batak-Menangkabau army that besieged Atjeh.*19

On the mainland, Lusung warriors aided the Burmese king in his invasion of

Siam in 1547 AD. At the same time, Lusung warriors fought alongside the

Siamese king and faced the same elephant army of the Burmese king in the


This is the clue thatI had been waiting for, thanks

I had been searching for connection between the areas of ancientSiam and

Burma, and ours.In my blog I mentioned that in Marilog districtalong Davao-North Cotabato boundaries, there is a breathtaking panoramic landscapeknown as the Arakan Valley where one of the indigenous peoples, the

Talaingod tribe resided. Intriguingly in Burma, there is also a place namedArakan, and among its indigenous inhabitants were the Mons, who were alsocalled "Talaing." Not only were the places similarly named, they also seemed

similar geographically with valleys and mountain ranges as one may notice inthe images posted in the blog.

In a forum, foreign expats were also dicussing the seeming similarity between

Thais and Filipinos. Someone commented they were like distant cousins,allegorically comparing both in characteristics with the Thais as "round,smooth," while the Filipinos as "hard, rough." However, another also

commented with regards to the issue of corruption.H e seemed mentioned thatboth countries may be suffering from corruption problems but unlike the Thais,

the Filipinos seemed to consider corruption as part of their "human nature."

It's probably the Buddhist upbringing of the Thais that made the difference.

Quote:

Chau Ju-Kua mentions that most people in the region had the surname "Pu." In

the Pampanga region, the honorific "Apu" is used before someone's name as a

sign of respect. The Chinese whose own surnames come at the beginning of

their names might have confused the honorific with a surname.

This may also provide clue about the Bagobo claim that supposedly all tribesoriginated from the foothills of Mt. Apo. As mentioned in their narrative, mostpeoples migrated elsewhere due to climactic phenomenons such as drought. It

had also been said that the previously large populated areas along Mt. Apo were vacated by its inhabitants when it erupted and transferred elsewhere such

as in Davao Oriental (which explained there were remnants of older settlementsthere, including Spanish structures being more densely populated than in

Davao during those times), as well as in Visayas and Luzon.




Dec 3, 2009, 11:06 AM #11

Zorro_LegendMember

Join Date:Oct 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by albertus ma gnusIt's time that the Filipino academe w ould dump their isolationist Pre-Philippinesconcept and c onsider that the preHispanic Philippines was intimately

connected with its neighbors and might be part of the confederation of Madya-

pa-it(Madya-as) and/or Sri-Bisayas.

There is hope that we have in the UP academe by the name of Prof. Grace P.

Odal who organized the First Alamat Conference. link>>




Try checking the works of Prof Zeus Salazar and his 'Pantayong Pananaw'

group. I'm sure you would like it. SEA precolonial history is really not myspecialization so I'd rather keep mum on the issue..howeve if you would like todiscuss World War II philippines, of Phil-Jap relations,feel free.. ..Thanks for

keeping the flame of history alive! Been really busy juggling work and graduate

studies..

Dec 3, 2009, 12:26 PM #12

SmartDessaThings divide;Christ unites

Join Date: Sep 2009

wow!I never knew thatVisayan was from Sri-Vijayan

very interesting!

Dec 3, 2009, 07:14 PM #13



Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorro_Legend Try checking the works of Prof Zeus Salazar and his 'Pantayong Pananaw'

group. I'm sure you would like it. SEA precolonial history is really not my

specialization so I'd rather keep mum on the issue..howeve if you would like to

discuss World War II philippines, of Phil-Jap relations, feel free.. ..Thanks for

keeping the flame of history alive! Been really busy juggling work and graduate

studies..

I'll try checking the works of Prof Zeus Salazar.

No problem.I'm justan amateur compared to you. I have no training and lackthe discipline to be even an amateur historian.Most infos I gave mustbe taken

as a grain of salt as they are freely circulating in the web.The tone is to inspire and to give pride in order to regain our lost core identity.Which is kinda biased and sometimes overboard and thus lack professionalism

a true historian should have.Feel free to interject if you have free time. Nice to have a true historian on board.

Dec 3, 2009, 07:33 PM #14


Quote:

Originally Posted by visionarylink Going on with our discussion and complementing also with your extensive

information, I was wondering if we could decipher further the role of the Sri-

Vijayan and Majapahit Empires that y ou once mentioned were merged in this

island archipelago.

I remembered discussing with my cousin many years ago in Dumaguete as to

" "

Ads by Google Philippines Philippine Map AD Philippines To Philippines




t e or g n o t e w or s ay a. s e s a er un v er s ty onc e a r es ear c

about it and that the word originated from the rivalry between ancient Ilonggos

and Cebuanos. The Ilonggos often bragged that they belonged to the Sri-

Vijayan empire. T o intimidate them, the Cebuanos retaliated by c onnoting

anything of inferior quality as "Bisaya."

However, through the years the word seemed to backfire on the latter who

were identified with it instead. The error was further exacerbated with the rest

of Visayan region dragged down, this time by rift between Tagalogs and

Cebuanos. Such misconception should be rechecked and that the word

Visayas actually originated from the regal source. As for the moment the

regionalistic rift needs be resolved with more information and less of bigotry

and myopic mindsets.

It is undeniable however that Cebu also wield influence in the region. Albertus,

based on your extensive sources, could it be possible that they once

represented a contrasting subculture, perhaps of the Majapahit empire? It was

also notable that despite the rivalry, both competing peoples still co-existed

peacefully rather than engage in warfare. Perhaps this manifested the peaceful

merger between both empires as you once mentioned.

Actually I have just heard this from you. There has been rivalries in our planetback even in the days of Ea and Enlil. From my readings, the Ilonggos are

proud of their Ilonggo Nation whose past accdg to their oral legends(compiledas Maragtas which accdg to William Henry Scott is not an actual historical

account but just a myth) belong to the Confederacy of Madya-as w/c seems likea play of words with the Hindu Majapahit. While Maragtas seems like a play of

words with the quasihistorical figure Prince Balagtas of Majapahit.

While Srivijaya is a Sanskrit word meaning Shining or Victorious, far from being

a derogatory term. Much like the term Indios whose actual meaning is very farfrom being a derogatory term during the time of Jose Rizal. Indios simply means

Indians or Hindu.Any rivalries or rift should be resolved as the powers are playing divide and

conquer. Just like what is happening in the south.Outside forces are fundingseparatist movements. The key for our survival and eventual realization of ourdestiny is peace in Mindanao, the Promised Land.

Dec 3, 2009, 07:53 PM #15



These might change most people's point of view thatthe Pre colonial

Philippines is like a No Man's Land in the middle of the ocean with no tradecontacts with its neighbors and that we owe to our colonizers our culture and

civilization:A)

Map of Spice Routes or Maritime Silk route as verified by UNESCO:

http://www.maritimeheritage.org/ports/philippines.html

Quote:

An important factor in ascertaining the old spice routes from Southeast Asia isthe trail of cloves from Maluku and the southern Philippines north to South

China and Indochina and then south again along the coast to the Strait of

Malacca.

From there the cloves went to India spice markets and points further west.

This north-south direction of commerce through the Philippineshas recently been recognized by UNESCO as part of the ancient

maritime spice route. The Philippine-Maluku hub persisted intoMuslim times and is chronicled in Arabic historical and geographic

writings.

B)



The Laguna Coppeplate Inscriptionhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laguna_...te_Inscription is the oldest historical

document in the Philippines that dates back to 922 AD and written in ancientKavi and in a language of mixed Old Malay,Old Tagalog,Sanskritand Old

Javanese.This document records thatthe ruler of Tondo,Jaya dewa, carriedthe Hindu title Senapati or military commander and acted as supreme judgeof all the lords of the nearby settlements. Amongthe counted allies

mentioned in the document includes the Hindu Kingdom of Mataram inMEDANG, JAVA. The KING/CHIEF OFMEDANG IN JAVA was actingas a

representative of the KING/CHIEF OF DEWATA OR DIWATA IN BUTUANHere is Morrow’s English approximation of his translation:

Quote:

Long Live! Year of Siyaka 822, month of Waisaka, according to astronomy.

The fourth day of the waning moon, Monday. On this occasion, Lady

Angkatan, and her brother whose name is Buka, the children of the

Honourable Namwaran, were awarded a document of complete pardon from

the Commander in Chief of Tundun, represented by the Lord Minister of Pailah,

Jayadewa.

By this order, through the scribe, the Honourable Namwaran has been

forgiven of all and is released from his debts and arrears of 1 kati and 8

suwarna before the Honourable Lord Minister of Puliran, Ka Sumuran by theauthority of the Lord Minister of Pailah.

Because of his faithful service as a subject of the Chief, the Honourable and

widely renowned Lord Minister of Binwangan recognized all the living r elatives

of Namwaran who were claimed by the Chief of Dewata, represented by the

Chief of MEDANG.

Yes, therefore the living descendants of the Honourable Namwaran are

forgiven, indeed, of any and all debts of the Honourable Namwaran to the Chief

of DEWATA.

This, in any case, shall declare to whomever henceforth that on some future

day should there be a man who claims that no release from the debt of the

Honourable…

C)Gold of Ancestors and the Philippines' Hindu PastForgotten Philippines: Gold Of Ancestors 1 Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DIwuvg_VnU

Forgotten Philippines: Gold Of Ancestors 1 Part 2 : THE SACRED THREADAND THE KINARIhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYtBVHrCK5w



An interesting ramification presented by above video link if one will reflect the

status of the owner of the Sacred Thread...



which is similar to the Boxer codex

...i s the owner a Sovereign of such a High Status, which will intimidate variousrulers of other kingdoms in Southeast Asia if they would be standing side by

side by each other. A ruler wearing a golden Sash or UPAVITA would intimidateor humiliate any Majapahit and Srivijayan royalties from neighboring kingdoms.

Imagine a Golden Rajah with his Gold warriours would surely outclass anyroyals and warriors. Is the owner of that Golden Sacred thread a Srivijayan?

Remember the other Golden rule: He who has the gold makes the rules. jk

The maritime thalossocracy or alliance of rajanates called by the early Chineseas Sanfotsi and by the early Arabs as Zabag which Coedes collectively calledSrivijayas stemming from a Kedukan bukit inscription found near Palembang

was said to have a powerful competitor in the south called Wakwak by the earlyArabs or Toupo by the early chinese. Is the Butuan-Toubok(Cotobato)area fits

the bill for the powerful competitior of Sanfotsi-Zabag? The Tausugs of the SuluSultanate were said to be originally Bisayan migrants from Butuan. The Surigao

Treasures billed as Gold of Ancestors is in the area of GOLD RICH BUTUAN.

A sword hilt from the Surigao Treasure



http://www.quezon.ph/2008/05/19/our-...-looking-back/Quote:

Philippine gold artifacts in general tendto be more elaborate and

better crafted than most from West Borneo.

Harrisson looked at the Dr Arturo de Santos collection (part of which was

acquired by the Bangko Sentral ng Pilipinas) as well, and observed that “…the range of Philippine gold jewelry…includes ma ny pieces of acomplexity and finesse that is beyond anythingattempted in

Borneo” in so far as what had been found at that time (Harrisson 1968: 56).

Throughout Indonesia there was a relationship between gold

artifacts a nd the ruling aristocracy, in the class-power centers which

developed on the coastal plains around the middle of the 1st millenium AD

(Harrisson 1968:44). Precious metals were worked ‘exclusively in those areas

where the influence of Hinduism was strongest’: he includes Java, Bali,

southern Celebes and the coastal districts of Borneo. These areas developed

as centers with established hierarchies, which necessitated the conspicuous

display of wealth (Harrisson 1968: 47).

There was a demand for gold, which the Philippines could have supplied. It

would be reasonable to suggest that one of the main sources of Javanese and Borneangold was the Philippines. That trade would

have been important enough to have been direct, by-passing minor pass-on

players say, in Sarawak or Sulawesi. Moreover, the early interest in gold from

the Philippines would have been in the raw material rather than wrought

artifacts. In turn, local interest would have been on goods not made of gold,

which they had plenty of.

http://www.marketmanila.com/archives/the-m...#comment-104413

Quote:

quotes Alcina, a Jesuit writing about a hundred years after Legaspi, the

conquistadores of the Philippines in the 16th century:

“I do remember that once whenI was solemnizing a marriage of aBisayan principala, she was so weighed down with jewelry that it

caused her tostoop — to me it was close to an arroba or so (1arroba = 25 lbs.),which was a lot of weight for a girl of twelve. Then

again, I also heard it said that her grandfather had a jar full of gold which alone weighed five or six arrobas. Even this much is little in

comparisonto what they actually had in ancient times.”

--------------------------

Quote:

pupuplatter, United States says:

I doubt that the makers of what has been called the “Surigao Treasure” were

Muslim. Islam came to the Philippine rather late, less than 200 years before the

Spanish conquest. We should also avoid idealizing, even as we begin to

appreciate, the pre-colonial past: some of the pre-colonial jewelry recovered in

Mindanao and elsewhere may have been hastily buried to hide them from

Cebuano, Tagalog, or Samal slave raiders and looters. And it is difficult to

determine who the “original” inhabitants of Mindanao really are. For much of

the Spanish colonial period, agents of the maritime s tate of Sulu conducted

slave raids throughout much of the Philippines. ( Bisayans in particular resented this since before Christian conversionthey claimed that

they were so mighty that they would have been the ones looting,

pillaging, and slave raiding their way across the Philippine waters. )These slaves gathered pearls, bird’s nest, wax and other products that were

then sold to the agents of the British East India Company who, in turn, sold

those products to China. It’s a complicated, global history.

link: http://www.marketmanila.com/archi ves/the-m...#comment-105021The crafters of Surigao treasures were most probably Hindu Bisayans, if not,

their allies. The Rajanate of Butuan had alliance with the Rajanate ofC ebu.Intermarriages of the royals between the two rajanates were common.And sothe comment of pupuplatter that the Hindu-Animists Cebuanos would probably

raid their allies, their Hindu-Animists brethren in Butuan, is most probablyincorrect. While, the Tausug Muslims of Sulu were originally Hindu-animists

Bisayans from Butuan having been proselytized by the Bruneians. And theTausugs indeed raided their pacified Bisayan brothers only during the time of

the Spanish colonial perod as they became Muslim while the latter became



.

King Humabon of Cebu, King Siaiu of Mazaua, and King Colambu of Butuan

were blood kins accdg to the history books.

Quote:

If King Humabon of Cebu, King Siaiu of Mazaua, and King Colambu of Butuan

were blood kins, we do not know if they’re first cousins, who was their

common ancestry. Was their ancestor from Butuan? Or, conversely, from

Cebu?

source: http://www.cebuasia.com/2008/01/29/butuano...ebu-and-mazaua/D)Southeast Asia Geopolitics

Quote:

Controlling the Straits of Malacca

As evidenced by history, the country that succeeded in controlling the narrow

strait between the Malay Peninsula and the island of Sumatra would gain

complete control of China's maritime silk route and thus become a

thalossocracy - a trading empire. The Srivijaya of South Sumatra did so in 670

AD, the Chola of Southeast India in 1026 AD, the Madjapahit of Java in 1343

AD, the Sultanate of Malacca in 1400 AD, and finally the Portuguese in 1512

AD.*17

When the Portuguese arrived in Southeast Asia in 1500 AD, they

witnessed LUZON's active involvement in the political and economic affairs of those who sought to take control of this

economically strategic highway. For instance, the former SULTAN OF MALACCA decided to retake his city from the Portuguese witha fleet of ships from LUZON in 1525 AD.*18 In 1529 AD, the

Sultanate of Atjeh on the northern tipof Sumatra became powerful enough to consider controlling the Straits of Malacca. LUZON ships

formedpart of the Atjehnese fleet that attacked key settlementsalong the straits. At the same time, LUZON warriors formed part of

the opposing BATAK-MENANGKABAU army that besieged Atjehor ACEH.*19 On the mainland,LUZON warriors aided theBURMESE KING in his invasionof SIAM in 1547 AD. At the same

time, LUZON warriors fought alongside the KING OF THAILANDand faced the same elephant army of the Burmese king in the


The Portuguese were not only witnesses but also direct beneficiaries of LUZON's involvement. Many Lucoes, as thePortuguese called the people of LUZON, chose MALACCA as their

base of operations because of its strategic importance. When thePortuguese finally took the MALACCA in 1512 AD, the resident

Lucoes held important government posts in the former sultanate.They were also large-scale exporters and shipowners that

regularly sent junks to China, Brunei, Sumatra, Siam and Sunda.One LUZON official by the name of SURYA DIRAJA a nnually sent 175 tons of pepper to China and had to pay the Portuguese 9000

cruzados in gold to retain his plantation. His ships became part of the first Portuguese fleet that paid an official visit to the Chinese

empire in 1517 AD.

In 1591 AD, the CAMBODIAN KING Phra Unkar Langara sent a gift of two royal elephants, gems and horses to the lords of LUZON to petition them to aid him inthe war against SIAM.

E)Trade Missions to China (source:

http://nippihistory.hp.infoseek.co.jp/lusunghis-e.htm )

Quote:

The name Lusung(LUZON) first appeared in Chinese History in 1373 AD in

the Ming Annals. In this document, Lusung was one of the first to answer the

call for tribute missions to the new Ming Dynasty [1368 - 1644]. It was Brunei

who first responded in 1371 AD, followed by Liuchiu in 1372, and then by

Lusung in 1373 AD*11.

Despite the fact that it made its first appearance on Chinese records as late as

1373 AD, evidences suggests that the Chinese had long known the existence

of LUZON as far back as the Sung Dynasty[960 - 1278 AD]. The presence of

thousands of recognisable pieces of Sung and Yuan Dynasty porcelains found in ancient burial sites in the Province of Pampanga and Manila suggests an

active trade with China long before the Ming period.

In the mid-1400s, the Ming Empire further limited the number of tribute

missions from overseas when it did not compensate the cost of maintaining

foreign embassies and entertaining foreign envoys. In 1550 AD, the Ming

Empire finally put an end to overseas trade altogether.

The Ming Empire's ban on overseas trade ironically became a blessing to

LUZON. The port cities in Fujian and Canton that had been profiting from

overseas trade since the Sung Dynasty cannot simply end its trade relations

with Southeast Asia just because the central government in Beijing does not

see profit from it. Chinese ships from Fujian and Canton continue to smuggle

goods out of China. They chose the port cities of Tondo and Mainila in LUZON

as a drop off point. Ships from other parts of Asia, mostly Brunei and Malacca

would then sail to LUZON to pick up their percentage of the Chinese goods.



I looked into the BUTUAN archealogical site, recognized by UNESCO as a

world heritage site. I was impressed to learn thatthey not only had advancedboat making and gold crafting skills, but also traded with countries as far awayas Persia.

Quote:

Satements of authenticity and/or integrity

The finds were authenticatedby the National Museum, and deeper studies by reputable archaeologists were subsequently done. Theoldest Chinese ceramic ware found in Butuan were the Yueh and

Yuehtype ware which dated back to the Five Dynasties (A.D. 907-960). In a quantitative survey of the ceramics discovered in

Butuan, there were representative types from various Asianrealms, ranked according to volume: Chinese (10th - 15th

centuries A .D.); Khmer/ Cambodian (9th-10th centuries A .D.); Thai (14th - 15th centuries A.D.) pre-Thai Satingpra (900-1100 A.D.);Haripunjaya (800-900 A.D.); pre-trade Vietnamese (11th - 13th

centuries A.D.), and PERSIAN (9th - 10th centuries A.D.)

http://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/2071/

I wouldn't be surprised ifmost of the evidence ofan advanced civilizedPhilippine society was suppressed and destroyed while we were conquered by

Spain.

More about Gold of Ancestors here...

http://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/...d.php?t=415541

Last edited by albertus magnus : Dec 3, 2009 at 08:36 PM.

Dec 4, 2009, 11:40 AM #16

Zorro_LegendMember

Join Date:Oct 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by albertus ma gnusI'll try checking the works of Prof Zeus Salazar.

No problem. I'm just an amateur compared to you. I have no training and lack

the discipline to be even an amateur historian. Most infos I gave must be taken

as a grain of salt as they are freely circulating in the web.

The tone is to inspire and to give pride in order to regain our lost core identity.

Which is kinda biased and sometimes overboard and thus lack

professionalism a true historian should have.

Feel free to interject if you have free time. Nice to have a true historian on

board.

I don't consider myselfa historian since, well, I don't practice what I'velearned...yet...I am still, just like a lot of us here,a student of history.

Studying history does not rely on degrees or where you came from. You're more

of a historian that some of my batchmates back then..trust me. Justlearn toquestion your own sources,an d you'll be fine. Examine where they come from, what the purpose of the author is and such...

Also, if you have time, try to write on a specific topic...say, the peopling of SEA.Present it in a scholarly way (with bibliography and notes) and you will see a

big diference on how you view that certain topic.I always do thatmyself.

really, it's admirable for someone here to be this interested in a craft many find

irrelevant. That's why "keep the fires burning". Learning is a lifetime pursuit. Ihave a lot to learn, we all have, even PhDs...

Thanks, and keep up the researches. If you want, try checking Filipiniana.net,

they have good primary sources for certain topics there. Good find in the n et.

Mar 10, 2010, 04:17 PM #17

TheClockworks8Banned by Admin

Join Date: Nov 2009

awesome thread. keep posting guys.



Mar 10, 2010, 05:11 PM #18

pecanpieMember

Join Date:Apr 2007

Location: SE Asia

interesting thread albertus.

Mar 10, 2010, 05:41 PM #19



^^^Thanks to both of you.

Here's more...

Prehispanic Philippines had intimate connections between various kingdoms inSoutheast Asia via royal intermarriages and trade contacts and political

alliances(Srivisayas and Majapahit).

MAJAPAHIT Thalasocracy:

Prehispanic Philippines with the Kingdom of Luzon and the Kingdom of Suluknown to the Ancient Indonesians as Selurong or Saludong and Soloot

respectively were once partof the Majapahit Empire or Madya-pait(similarsounding to the Madya-as confederacy)as mentioned in the Nagakertagama

document. By the way, in our local folklores and on some written quasi-historical documents, the Majapahit Maharaja Angka Vijaya or Anka Widjaya,also known to our local historians including National Artist Nick Joaquin, as

Soledan took a wife by the name of Empress or Dayang Sasaban of theKingdom of Sapa and begot a certain Prince named Balagtas.

SRIVIJAYAS Thalasocracy:

Quote:

The location was described as rich in alluvial gold. During the mid-10th

century, Akbar al-Sin states that:

"near Zabaj is a mountain called the Mountain of Fire, which it is not possible to

approach. Smoke escapes from it by day and a flame by night, and from its

foot comes forth a spring of cold fresh water and a spring of hot water."

The palace of the king of Zabag, again the Arab name for Sanfotsi, was

described in Muslim texts as located at the water's edge of an estuary close

enough to the "bay of Zabag" that saltwater flowed during high tide and

freshwater during ebb. Such an estuary, it's been suggested earlier, was

known in the local language as sapa, sabang or sapang from which the Arab

place-name "Zabag" would be derived.

Abu Zayd said that the kingdom of Zabag faced China, probably referring to

the southern port of Canton, which would have been directly across the

Nanhai (South Sea) to the northwest.

This geographical description is confirmed by Mas'udi who states that the

kings of the Khmer kingdom (Cambodia) face toward the kingdom of Zabag

during their morning prayers i.e., toward the East, the sunrise.

...those clues will give us the true location of the capital of Zabaj or Zabai or

Zabag as the early Moslem Arabs called the Southeast Asianthalossocracy/thalasocracy equated as Sanfotsi or Shilifoshi as it was known by

the early Chinese writers and termed Srivijayan empire by the French historianCoedes.

For one thing, Palembang, which was highly favored by western academiciansas the capital of Zabaj or Sanfotsi or Srivijaya, was due south of the Khmer

kingdom as well as the Kingdom of Champa and not due east as according tothe Abu Zaid chronicles,w here the true location should be of the capital of

Srivijaya-Sanfotsi-Zabaj being the place of residence of the Maharaja or Mihraj.

From this map...

If you'll draw a horizontal line from Khmer, or Champa which are nowCambodia, and Vietnam, then, traversing or passing due east(Kings of Khmers

faced towards the east during their morning prayers)... you will hit among thePhilippine isles as the location of the capital of the Mihraj of Zabaj.

From the archive, below, we can say that the confusion can be attributed toCoedes. Coedes favored Palembang simply because the Bukit

inscription(Srivijaya meaning 'the Glorious one' was mentioned in thatdocument) was found near it.It is like saying the Kingdom of tondo was

centered in Laguna because the laguna copperplate inscription was foundthere...

http://www.archive.org/stream/indiaandjava...468mbp_djvu.txt

Quote:

From Chinese sources we learn that a Hinduised kingdom formerly known as

Shrivijaya) existed in Sumatra in the 5th century A.D. In the 10th century this

kingdom' of Sanfotsi or Che-li-fo-chi (the Chinese rendering of Shrivijaya) ruled

over 15 subject states. In the 10th century this Sumatran kingdom was

conquered by Java but soon recovered its independence. Early in the 13th

century we find again a list of the subject countries of Shrivijaya. In the 14th



.

recently Sumatra was never considered to be very important in comparison

with Java.

M. Georges Coedes has now given (in his Royaume do Shrivijaya, 1018)

strong reasons fur reconsidering this opinion. He was the first to identify

Palembang with Shrivijava. In the 7th century A.I), Shrivijaya included the isle

of Bangka between Sumatra and the Malay Peninsula...

In the 10th century Chola inscriptions ascribe a Buddhist temple built at

Ncgapalam (near Madras) to the Shailcndra kings of Shrivijaya, Shortly after

that the Cholas of Southern India attacked Shrivijaya and coquered it for a

short time. But it soon recovered its power. Chan. Ja-Kua, a Chinese author of

the 13th century, mentions many places in Sumatra, the Malay Peninsula, etc,

as acknowledging its supremacy.

The Shailendra, dynasty of the kingdom of Shrivijaya in Sumatra professed

Mahayana Buddhism. Now there is a temple in Central Java, the shrine of

Kalasan er ected in

honour of the Mahayana divinity Tara, which was constructed in 778 A.D., by

the order of a Buddhist Xing of the Shailendra dynasty of Shrivijaya. As theKalasan inscription mentions that the temple was in the King's own kingdom,

we must conclude that Central Java was included in the empire of the

Shailendra sovereigns in the second half of the 8th century. These Srivijayan

monarchs built on a grand scale in Java (Borobodur, etc.) and were

represented in that island by their viceroys. *

It was probably also in the 8th century that the Shrivijaya fleet ravaged the

coast of Annam (Champa) and penetrated as far as the capital of Cambodia. A

Champa inscription of 787 A.D. states that the armies of Java' (spelt Java, not

Yava) coming on board ships burnt the shrine of Shri Bhadradhipatishvara.

Java here means Shrivijaya and not Java as both Java and Sumatra were

called Java alike by foreigners Kamboja (Cambodia) also did not escape those

inroads. It is from the narrative of an Arab traveller of the 9th century that we

got a dramatic account of it. The Arab merchant Sulayman had travelled in

India and China, and his accounts, written in 851 A.D., were commented upon

by Abu Zayd Hassan about 916 A.D. In his description of the kingdom of Ziibaj

(or Sribuza the Arab name for Shri- vijaya) occurs the following passage: "The

King (of Zabai) is known by the title of Maharaja . . . He rules over numerous

islands. The islands of Sribuza, Rami (Kamini is another name for Sumatra

obviously the Arab traveller does not know that Zabaj, Sribuja and Rami are all

in Sumatra) belong to him. . . The maritime kingdom of Kalah (Kra) also

acknowledges his sway . . . His own island is as fertile as a land can possibly be and the population is very dense and continuous". Then lie proceeds to

describe a curious custom of the Maharajas. Every morning, we are told, the

treasurer brought to the king an ingot of gold of the shape of a brick which in

the king's presence he threw into a lake near the palace. During the life-time of

the king no one would touch these golden bricks. When he would die his

successor would have these ingots taken out. After being counted and

weighed they would be distributed among the members of the royal family, the

generals, the servants and the poor. The number of these golden bricks and

their total weight wore then written in the official records and the prestige of a

king would depend on the amount of gold.

The Wealth and Glory of Srivijaya:

http://asiapacificuniverse.com/pkm/sanfotsizabag.htm

Quote:

The Chinese accounts of Sanfotsi and Toupo started from about the 10th

century and 5th century respectively, and both continued up until about the

late 1200's. During most of this time, the Muslim geographers also wrote on

the same area, basing their accounts on the tales of merchants,ambassadors, etc., to the region. Most scholars are in agreement that Sanfotsi

was known to the Muslims as Zabag, while Toupo was known as Wak-wak.

Al-Biruni, a noted writer during this period who travelled to India wrote that

Zabag was placed on the eastern side of the Sea of Sanf (Champa or coastal

central/south Vietnam). This is confirmed by another famous geographer,

Masudi, who stated Zabaj was oriented toward Khmer, which comprises

modern Cambodia and South Vietnam, as Ceylon is oriented toward Madurai in

South India. It was known as an island rich in gold mines.

Mas'udi noted that this kingdom had on its east side an ocean of unknown

extent, which was basically the same as the Great Eastern Ocean-Sea of the

Chinese. The latter ocean was also located to the east of Sanfotsi and Toupo,

and it was here that the weilu was located, where waters began to go

"downward." It is interesting to note that the Muslim writers mention some

interesting flora and fauna when describing the main island of the kingdom of

Zabaj. Among them were the dwarf buffalo, the python and the giant camphor

tree. Now the dwarf buffalo must be either the tamaraw of Mindoro, or the anoa

of Celebes. The python is native to both the Philippines and Borneo, as are the

giant camphor trees, although these are more common in Borneo.

The Muslims had much to say about these islands but we will confine

ourselves to a few quotes:

"In the sea of Champa (off central/south Vietnam) is the empire of Maharaja,

the king of the islands, who rules over an empire without limit and has

innumerable troops. Even the most rapid vessels could not complete in two

years a tour round the isles which are under his possesssion. The territories

of this king produce all sorts of spices and aromatics, and no other sovereign

of the world gets as much wealth from the soil." (Mas'udi, AD 943)

"the eastern islands in this ocean (Sea of Champa), which are nearer to China

than India, are the islands of Zabaj, called by the Hindus, Suvarnadvipa, i.e.

the gold islands*... because you obtain much gold as deposit if you wash only

a little of the earth of that country." (Al-Biruni, 1030 AD)

"



. . ,

called Mihraj, who possesses a great number of populous and fertile islands,

covered with fields and pastures, and producing ivory, camphor, nutmeg,

mace, clove, aloeswood, cardamom, cubeb..." (Idrisi, 1150)

"The gold is plentiful, the horse bits, the chains and necklaces of monkeys,

dogs and other beasts are of gold. The chiefs used golden bricks for their

houses and forts and official decrees are engraved upon golden paper."

(Hordadzbeh)

"Some people told me they had seen a man who had been to Wak-wak, to do

business there. He had told of the riches of the country and the islands. I do

not mean that their country is so important, but that the people of Wak-wak are

numerous. Among them are men who look like Turks. Of all God's creatures

none are more capable or clever in the arts; but they are sly, cunning, deceitful

and very quick and knowledgeable in everthing they undertake." (Shariyar,

10th century)

*On the subject of the gold of Wak-wak, Pigafetta stated that when he reached the Philippines that even the common people had massive gold ornaments and

that everyone ate from gold plates and partly covered their houses with gold.

The Philippines still has world-class gold reserves.

To reiterate, the capital or place of residence of the Maharaja/Mihraj of

Zabaj/Zabag could be anywhere in the Philippines. According to the moslem writer, Abu Zaid,it was said to be due east from the Kingdom of

Khmer(Cambodia) and Champa(Vietnam). Zabaj is equated as Srivijaya orSribuja or Javaka or Sanfotsi. So western scholars like Coedes could be wrong

to place SriVijaya's capital as Palembang in Sumatra. Since earlier chinese writings had stated that Pa-linfong(Chinese rendition) or Palembang was just adependency of Srivijaya.But later on,elements ofSrivijaya remained in

Palembang as stated in later Chinese writings. That could be the source ofconfusion. The word Zabaj/Zabag or Savaka/Javaka means riverine

estuary(Sapa or Sabang or Saba-h). Coincidentally, there existed a Kingdomcalled Sapa, which was equated by our historians as the Kingdom of Namayan.

This Kingdom of Sapa was synonymous to the Kingdom of Lusung/Luzon withTondo as the eastern capital, the seat of the Senapati(commanding general oradmiral). While the western capital was the seat of the Commander in Chief, the

Mihraj of Zabaj or the Maharaja of Zabag? Placed near the Hagonoy-Masantol-Macabebe estuarine areas according to one historian.

Note:Java to the Ancient historians didnt mean justthe presentisle of Java butto encompass the whole Suvarnadvipa or Maritime Southeast Asia. Which later

on would mean as the great island of Borneo termed as Java major while thepresent isle of Java becoming Java minor. Parallel to this is Suvarnadvipa to theancients would mean the whole Island SoutheastAsia but later historians will

place it at Sumatra. In other writings, Java Major is Sumatra and not Borneo.Very confusing isn't it?



I would like to end in a very controversial almostfantastical and unbelievable...

Prof. Arysio Santos, a Brazilian nuclear physicist,equa ted Lemuria and even

Atlantis as the Sunken Sundaland continent now Maritime Southeast Asia. link:http://atlan.org/articles/sci.html

He said:

Quote:

the Seven Golden Cities of Cibola and with the legend of the Eldorado.[LINK: to

my article on Pueblo Indians] And these are, as we argue elsewhere, the same

as the Seven Islands of the Blest, which are no other than the sunken Eden of

the Judeo-Christians. The name of the Golden Cities of Cibola very obviously

came from the Dravida civ-pola, meaning "golden city" or, yet, "city of the

reds"...

Moreover, the number seven attached to the cities of Cibola is also the one of

the Isles of the Blest and similar sunken realms of the ancients. In

fact, the number alludes to the seven great islands of INDONESIA:Java, Sumatra,Borneo, Celebes, PHILIPPINES,N ew Guinea and the Malay Peninsula, which the ancients counted as an island...

...The above is, of course, exactly the message of St. John's Revelation (21:1)

concerning the New Jerusalem. The New Jerusalem is Atlantis, reborn from

its cinders, as a sort of Phoenix, the bird that personifies Paradise in Greek myths. These myths were indeed copied from Egypt who, in turn, cribbed

them from India. India and, more exactly, Indonesia, is the true land of the

Phoenix, as is relatively easy to show, since it is from there that comes the

name of the Benu bird of the Egyptians and that of the Phoenix of the Greeks.

Well, I have been hearing about these fantastical tales even as early as my

childhood days. Thatthe Philippines was a remnantof Lemuria and the coming

New Jerusalem. Stephen Oppenheimer, a medical doctor turned archaeo-geneticist,even claimed that Sundaland is the "Eden in the East"-birthplace ofAgriculture.l ink: http://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/...d.php?t=413753

BTW: In Medieval Maps, Eden was placed in the Far East, in Greater India as

farther than the Ganges River, said to be one of the Four rivers of Paradise.Greater India or India Major or East Indies is synonymous with SoutheastAsia.



Indonesia is known before as Dutch EastIndies. Philippines is Spanish EastIndies. While, Malaysia together with the Subcontinent which is presently the

country of India was termed collectively as British India or British East Indies.India and Eden has the same etymological origin meaning Farthest End or IND.

Eden is in the East as Stephen Oppenheimer said.

7,000 to 10,000 yrs ago during the end of the last Ice Age was a series of

inundations, akin to the Gread Biblical Deluge or Noah's Flood because of themelting of the polar ice caps, which submerged Sundaland. Its elevated

mountaintops now becoming the isles of Maritime Southeast Asia.

Jose Rizal,in his "My Last Farewell", as some people equate Eden, Tarshishand Ophir, Lemuria, Cattigara,Maniola, Cipangu,El Dorado,Suvarnadvipa(Gold Islands) or Chryse Chersonessos, etc with the present day

Philippines, did Rizal,at the back of his mind, somewhat also ponder the same



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o ug s e o re

"Farewell, dear Fatherland, clime of the sun caress'd

Pearl of the Orient seas, our Eden lost!,Gladly now I go to give thee this faded life's best,

And were it brighter, fresher, or more blestStill would I give it thee, nor countthe cost."

Entertaining the idea that the Philippines with the rest of Maritime SoutheastAsia as the coming New Jerusalem in the Satya yuga(the coming Golden Age);

now, it makes sense why the Zionist Financial elites would like the Philippinesto remain in serfhood-slavery or Third World status and try prevent the Rise of

the Phoenix.http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/inde...owtopic=208414

http://raefdargon.mysticblogs.com/20...planetary-chi/http://erleargonza.blogspot.com/2008...blings-of.html

----------------------------------------PRETEND TO BE GLOBAL, AND BE NATIONALISTIC.

Three Urgent Steps To Philippines' Survival:http://larouchephil.com/content/three-urge...ppines-survival

Philippine LaRouche Society Confronts Quackademics on TV

part 1:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fG-XB-O2R-Q...feature=related

part 2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFvTS5tjxe4...feature=related

part 3:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwHizTyd21g...feature=relatedpart 4:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug5jlZHwfQY...feature=related

part 5:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8jxcMIjKMI...feature=relatedMembers of the Philippine LaRouche Society have a radio showaired every

sunday night at AM radio DZXL 558khz from 8:00-9:00pm manila timelink of the radio station:http://www.rmn.ph/amstations/dzxl

Last edited by albertus magnus : Mar 10,2010 at 11:35 PM.

Jul 21, 2010, 01:38 PM

UAAPTiger

This message has been deleted by Nakura.

Sep 11, 2010, 07:06 PM #20

keyser_soze:::Pang Ornjira:::

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wow! didn't know that a thread about pre-hispanic 'Philippines' exists.

Very interesting read, very informative.

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