Legislative Assembly WEDNESDAY AUGUST · Question'. [~7 AuGUST.] Questions. 625 General I-IoBpital...

Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

WEDNESDAY, 27 AUGUST 1930

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

624 Questions. [ASSEMBLY.] Qwstions.

WEDNESDAY, 27 AUGUST, 1930.

The SPEAKER (Hon. C. Taylor, Windsor) took the chair at 2.30 p.m.

QUES'l'IO~S.

QcESTJONS Sum!ITTED TO GROWN LAW OFFICE A;o:D CocNSEL rx RE RE?ORT OF :Mn-;GA:\A l\lr~E:::; ConnaT6SIO~.

:!\Ir. \Y. FOHGA:\r S::\IITH (Jfr.·ckay) asked ihc Pr·emic•r-

" In conCJcction with the report of the 1\Iungana Royal Conun;·"Gion, . and tho Premier's press sLltcments to the effect that the queetion of proceeding in the criminal court againet Mr. Theodore and others who arc the subject of inuictment in the Cornmissioner's report and findings had b,.on n~fccred to the Cro\,·n Law- Office, will he inform the flouse on tho following :-

(a) The nature of the qnery, question, or series of quericB or que:;tlons addressed by tlw Government to the Crown Law Office in the matter;

(b) Tho reply or seriatim repJie, of the Crown Law ('ffice·; and

(c) The oprmon of independent coullscl, stating the n'lme or nan1cr, of snch coun:..;c], on tho 1nat"er<'l referred to in (a)? "

'The SECRETARY FOH PUBLIC IXST1CUI'Tl01\ (Hon. R. M. King, Logu :), for the l'llK\ilEH (Hon A. E. Moorc, .1 uuigny) replied-

" It is not ,-sua] for c.ny party to legal proceedings to make a pL!blic disc]o,.ure of his case or of his counsel's opinion prior to the hearing of the case."

Cosr OF SPnAY· A:->D H.\;.;n-P,n;o:TJNG RAILWAY COACH AT TOWXSV!LLE HAlLWAY WORK~HOPS.

::\;Ir. HYNES (Totcns 1/le) a'ked the Secretary foi· Railways-

,, 1. \Yhat is t.he cost of spray painting a coach at Townsville workshops (labour only)?

"2. \Vhat is tho cost of mat··rial used in connection with spray painting a coach at the 'l'ownsville workshops?

" 3. \Vhat is the cost (labour only) of hand painting a similar class of coach?

" 4. What is the co•,t of makrial used in connection with hand painting a similar clas.s of vehicle?

" 5. Will he lay on t.ho table of the House the report of the carriage foreman at Townsviile on the experiment in spra•: painting recently conducted at the TownsYille railway workshops?"

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC I="STHUCTION (Hon. R. M. Kinc:. Lor1•1n), for the SECRETARY FOR RAILIYA"\:S (Hon. Godfrey Morgan, },:fur.:Ua), replied-

" 1 to 5. Inquiries are being made."

Cosr OF CoPPER ORE HAULAGE FROM CLONCURRY TO CHILLAGOE.

Mr. MULLAN (Flind, rs) asked the Secretary for Railways-

" 1. \Vhat is the cost of hauling a ton CJf copper ore from Cloncurry to Chillagoe?

" 2. \\'hat rs the freightage now· charged?

" 3. \\'hat department is charged with lc,,;'l_, if any, on carrying this ore?"

Tho SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INSJ-'HUCTIOJ'\ (Hon. R M. King, Lorf'm), for the SECRETARY FOR HAlLWAYS (Hon. Go<lfrey 2\Iorgan, )Juriih), replied-

' 1. Tho cost Yario'· according to the different weights of trains. The co~t per

crrin mile (excluding interest) is lls. 2~d.

" 2. 20s. per ton, which is 5s. 5d. per ton more than c.harged by the previous GoYcrnn1ent.

'' 3 .• \s was the practice under the preYioun Goyernrncnt, the difference in. freight is borne by the Raih.ay DepartrrlCnt. ''

RAILWAY FREIGHT 0~ COPPER ORE FORWARDED nw'r CLo;.:ctcl\.lY TO CniLLAGOE.

Ylr. Mt:'LLAN (F'indcrs) asked the Secretary for Railways-

" Does the one railv, ay rate opcrah, on all coppt•r ore carried from Cioncnrr,y to Chillagott, or hh ve special rates been granted on ore purdmsod by Chillagoe smelters from Mount Elliott company or some of the tributors working J\'lount Elliott's company's mines or propcrtic:-,? "

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTHUCTIO~ (Hon. H. M. King, Logan), for the SECHETARY FOR RAIL\YAYS (Hon. Godfrey l'.1organ, Murilla) replied-

" There is no discrimination in the ra.il-.vav rates on ore from Cloncurry to Chillagoo in faYour of the l\Iount Elliot1 Comr"tnv or tributors working lVlount Elliott Compan0 's mines or properties."

IxmxTro;o:s oF Go\-ERXMENT rx RE ExTE::o;sro;.;s OF :\' OORA}IA-TH CRcLGOOX.\ 1' A8TORAL LEASES.

Mr. BRASSIJ'\GTON (Balunnc) asked the Secretary for Public Lands-

·' Has the department reached a definite decision in connection with the following matters:-

1. The application of the lessees of J\'Doran1a-Thurulgoona. lf'a~cs, Cunnamtllla district, for a developmental ler-..0 oyer a certain area of the above leG~C-;?

2. The proposal to surrender the Dirranbandi reserve?

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS (Hon. W. A. Deacon, Gunninghum), replied-

" 1. Y cs. The application has been refused.

" 2 Yes. The Balonne Shire Council has surrendered the reserve, and the land comprised therein "-ill be granted as additim,al areas to small selectors adJOming."

Qc:Esnm; oF TITGIIT oF MEDJOAL SuPERTNTE:o;TJEKT. HOCKHA}JPTO~ GENERAL HOSPITAL, TO P:>I\'ATE PRACIICE.

::\Ir. DU="LOP (llockhampton) asked the Homo Secretary-

" 1. SFeing that applications were called for the fJO''ition of general medical superintendent to the Rockhampton

Question'. [~7 AuGUST.] Questions. 625

General I-IoBpital in July, 1322-one of the conditions of the agreement being· that no private practice wae to be allowed-that subsequently the then hospital board included in this agreement the right of certain private practice, what authoritv had the chairman of the preecnt hoeprtal board (Mr. Owen Daniel, :YI.L.A.) to take action without first bringing the matter under the notice of the other members of the board?

"2. How is it that it has taken till August, 1930. to find out what is mentioned in Quc·,tion :\'o. 1. and then ask 1 he pn,~·.ent C'hairruan of the ho·-~pital boal'cl to his sccrctarv to write to Doctoi' aski111; hi1n -\rhcthC'r he -\'as proparccl to forgo certain rights he had in hi:5 agrccm1cut \Yith thJ then board 1

"3 IJo~\\ rt:lll{~h louger i.s this lJCl'.sccn~ t.ion of J)octor Cordon going to be allowed to cuntinuc ': .,

The HO'JIE SECRETARY (Hon. J. C. 'PetcrsmJ, Xorma11vy) replied-

'· l. The appointment of hospital be tul ('11lployccs aiJd conditions of crnployrnent are n1attcr.a for detonnination b~· ·the board. As it is not my practice to i1·1crf"'r0 in a hospital board's n1ann ge111ent of its officers, it is suggested t:mt the hou. member direct his inquiries to the Rockhampton Hospitals Board.

"2. Sec answer to Xo. 1. "3. Sec answer to Ko. 1.''

1'.\n'EXTS ~"OR ::\IEnrcAL Ex.l:~nxATIOli or .l'ROSTITlJTES.

:\h. DUJ\"LOP (Rut! hampton) asked the Home Secretary-

" 1. \Vhat was the amount inYolvcd for medical examination of prostitutes for the twelve months ended 30t.h June, 1930, at Ayr, Bowtn, Bnsbane, Bundabcrg Cairns (and Babincla), Chartm·s Towers: Cloncurry, Ingham, Innisfail (and Tully), Long-reach, JYlackay, Mossman (a.nd l'ort Douglas), Rockhampton Too-woomba, and Townsville? '

'' 2. \Vhom was such money paid to?"

The HOl\fE SECRETARY (Hon. J, C. .Pdersou, X m·nwnby) replied-

" 1. £1,553 7s. was invoh·ed in medical examination of prostitutes and others. The amount mentioned includes payment for duties at Yenereal diseases clinics, a.YJd in the Brisbane area at tho \;r cncreai Isolation Hospital, Park road.

"2. It is not considered arh·isablc to publish the names of the medical practitioners who perform these dnties. The payn1ents made are as follo1vs:-

BriBbane (fiye men) Bowen. three cxarninations

at £1 h. Cloncurry, tweni Y-four

examinations at £i ls .. Longreac,h Ayr, Bundaberg, CairnQ,

Charters Towers, Innis-fail, Ingham, 11ackay, Rockhampton, Too-\Voomba and Town:3-

£ 1.000

3

25 25

s. d. 0 0

3 0

4 0 0 0

villc at £50 each 500 0 0

£1,553 7 0'' 1930-2 R

DEP.\RDIEXT.\L IKQUIRY IN R1 POLICE AT CAIIlliS.

::\Ir. DU='i'LOP (Rockhampto11) asked the, Home Secretary-

" 1. Is it true that at a recent depart· mental inquiry the Sub-Inspector of Police, Cairns, suggested that the police at Cairns ';vero an organised gang of criminals who ha•l banded themselves together for the purpose of preventing him from doing his duty?

'' 2. 1-Iu:-, the Con1n1issioner of Police taken stl'ps to verify or refute san1e ·~

"3. Did ihc sub-inspector 'Withjn thB past three or four rnonths, on his o\vn initiative, relet~'! a pri2oncT who had llC'CTl arrr t,:d by a ('Qll:3table for LJllcgcJ o hsccnc la uguagc ?

'· ..;.. In acting tlnl.", in~pc._·toJ· u urp the lllatr~Stl'aC'.Y '!

of

·· ~. I~ ·who v- 1s thus rPlea.scJ a pcro )rwl of the sub-inspr"tor ·:

" 6. Did the sulJ-inspcctor accmc ;:rrc--ti11g- ('Oll~table of beiny, drunk, imnwdiatt'l\7 thcreaftt>r detain hin1 at police ,:;b.ttiOn for several hours?

'· 7. Has a charge been preferred agnin.~t the said C'onstablo in pursuanco of the prc':cribcd regulations for drunkenncc,s: and ( u) misconduct having cxccQdccl his duty?

'· 8. Is it corl'IX:t tbat a second con~.table, on going ro the assistance of h1..:; comr•lde who had effected ihe anvct in (tUCstion, \Yas roundl,- abused hv the >Ub-inspecior and later charged· with having been unduly absent from his boat on that occasion?

'· 9. Is it correct that on the chargo against the latter constable reaching Bri,d.mnc he was cautioned by the Chief Inspector of Police?

" 10. Has not the Commissioner since decided to revoke the finding of his deputy and order an inquiry to be hoard in respect of the charge against the con· stable who is alleged to have been unduly absent from his beat?

" 11. What is the result of the lattercharge?"

The BO:.\IE SECRETARY (Hon. J. C. l'cterson. Tormanby) replied-

" 1. I have no infonnation to this effect.

'' 2. The Commi_,sioncr of Police held a parade of all the available polic" at Cairns oa l4rh June last at 2 p.rn., and on being CJLh stioncd they all sai·d they had ' no complaints.'

·· 3. The rnattcr is nnder inYestigation1

and the result of such investigation has not yet reached hc~dquarters.

'' 4. St.'C ansvvcr to No. 3. " 5. S0e ans,ver to I\ o. 3. " 6. Sec answ~~r to No. 3. "7. c~rta1n charges arc

Jny, '3tigation at Cai"rns, as !lJCSWCr I\ 0. 3.

still under indicated in

" 8. The ,,-hole incid~ni is being dcpa rt· rnentally inquired into, as shown above.

"9. C'\o; any action takcn·in this mat. tn b,>· the Chief Inspector of Police was at the clircrtion of the Commissioner.

QuPstions. [ASSEMBLY.] Questions.

"10. :2\o; the Cornnli:,sioner has since ordered an investigation at the constable's O"\\ n request.

"11. The• matter has not yet been finali, ~"L"

ScRPLLS R.AILWAY EMPLOYEES.

~Ir. COOPER (!Jrerncr) asked the Secretary for Railways-

" In view of the statement by the Minister that there are 1,127 surplus <lmployces in the railway service, will he furnish details showing (a) the grades of the service and (b) the divisions of the State wherein such said surplus employees are now employed?"

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC I~STRUCTIO~ (Hon. R M. King, Logan), for The SECRE'rARY FOR RAILWAYS (Hon. Godfrey Morgan, Murilla), replied-

" Information is being obtained."

COST OF SPRAY- AND HAND-PAINTING RAILWAY COACH AT IPSWICH RAILWAY WORKElHOPS.

Mr. COOPER (Brerner) asked the Secretary for Railways-

" 1. What were the labour costs of spray-painting car 501 at the Ipswich rail way workshops?

'' 2. What was the cost of material used in spray-painting the car?

" 3. \Vhat were the labour costs of hand-painting a car similar to car 501?

" 4. What wae the cost Df material m•-'d in hand-painting such similar car?

"5. \Yill he lay upon the table of the House the report of his departmental officers on thG spray-painting of carriages recently conducted at the Ipswich rail'way v. orkshops ?"

Tlw SECRET_\Il.Y FOR PUBLIC INSTRUCTION (Hon. R. M. King, Louan), for The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS (Hon. Godfrey Morgan, Murilla), replied-

" 1 to 5. The information is being obtained."

lV1AXD!D! \VORKERS' COMPENSATION PAYMENTS.

2\Lr. \Yl::\STA:'-iLEY (Qucenton), for Mr. DASH (Jiundinyburra), asked the Treasurer-

" 1. \Vhat was the maA.imum payment per vveek of V/orkers' compensation at ~~1st July, 1930, to an injured worker with three dependants?

" 2. \Vhat is the maximum payment per week now being paid to an injured worker with three dependants?"

The THEASURER (Hon. W. H. Barnes, Trynnum) replied-

" 1. £4 5s., as compared to £3 10s. which would have been the payment if rhc present Government had not amended thc "~orkcrs' Compensation Act.

"2. £4, as compared to £3 10s., which \\·ould be payable if the Act had not been an1cnded.''

ST.\TE ScB:OCRIPno:-;s TO AC>lD ALLOCATION OF LAST Two Cmnro:-;wEALTH LOANS.

Mr. PEASE (H erbcrt) asked the Treasurer-

" 1. \Vhat was the total amount subscribed to the last two Commomvealth

loans, detailing each State's contribution 'I

" 2. What was the allocation by tho Loan Council to the States from both loans, showing amounts apportioned to •·a eh State?"

The TREASURER (Hon. W. H. Barnes, Wynnum) replied-

'r 1.-"NO\'E:IIBER, 1929, IssuE.

£ Total amount subscribed 10,002,980 Number of subscribers 17,168

Approximate Number of Subscribers.

New South Wales Victoria .. Queensland .. South Australia Western Australia Tasmania

3,908 7,166 2,604 1,832

5621 746

Approximate Amount

Subscribed.

£ 2,498,530 2,933,610 1,038,080

787,940 177,960 206,710

Approximately £2,233,790 was contributerl by the underwriting banks. Final details have not been furnished by the Loan Council.

.TuNE, 1930, IssuE.

Total amount subs~ribed Number of subscribers

£ 12,415,490

31,975

Approximate Xnmbcr of I :Subscribers. I

Approximate Amount

Subscribed. ----·--------1-------

New ~outh Wales Victoria .. Queensland .. South Australia .. '\V estern Australia .. Tasmania

1 £ 10,6921

1 4,8 !5,090

11,649 4,407,620 4,1(13 1,437,550 3,074 I 1,040, 1so 1,164 350,020 1,2931 ~-334,420 --

---- I

-~~-s ____ 31,975[ £12,415,490

Final dL·tails have not been furnished by the Loan Council.

"2.-"NoYE1IBER, 1929, Issc:E.

Total amount allocated to the States £8,282,00{)

Details of the allocation to each State have not he en furnished by the Loan Council.

JUNE, 1930, lsSCE.

Details arc not yet available."

REALLOCATION OF COi\DIO:'>lWEALTH GRANTS TO i:OTATES FOR UNE~IPLOY:IIEN1' RELIEF.

::>Jr. PE.c\SE (Hcrbert) asked the Trca· surer-

" Whr t arc the details of the reailocaticn of tho Commonwealth Government's grants to the States for unemployment relief in view of the special consideration exh•nded b,· thG LDan Council to South Anf'ira1ia, nnrl sho~sing amounts no-w to be allocated to each State? "

[27 AUGUST.] Questions. 627

The TREASURER (Hon. W. H. Barnes, TVynnum) replied-·

"New South Wales Nil. Victoria Queensland South Australia vVestern Australia 'ras1nania

£192,750 Nil. Nil.

£32,500 £24,750"

TR\NSFER OF RAILWAY 'E3IPLOYEES FRO;o,r A:-iD TO i\IAREEBA.

Mr. PEA. SE (H crbcrt) asked the Secretary fer Railwa,;B-

" J n view of the reply to que,tion regarding the transfer of Guard Gardner from Mareeba-that this was <lue to the fact that there was a surplus guar<l at Mareeba-wi!l he explain why official notice was is,,ucd transferring Guard Cuskellv to Mareeba vice Guard Gardner, transferred."

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTRUC'fiON (Hon. R. ::Yl. King, Logan), for the SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS (Hon. Godfrey Morgan, Jfu.rilla), replied-

" Guard Cuskelly is not being transferred to Mareeba but to Dimbulah."

ALLOWA:-lCES TO UxMARJUED PoLICE CoxsTABLES I•' OR (~c; ARTERS AND PLAI::-1 CLOTHES.

Mr. HANLOX (lthaca) asked the Home Secretary-

" l. \Yhat number of Queensland policenlen of le",s than one ,,~c.J.r's seYvice receive an allo\rancc of 2·," a dav in lieu of qnarterR? ....

'· 2. \\'hat number of si;.gle police are not in i'''CC,ipt' of ~uch allow.~n< c?

"3. \\'hat is the estimated vcar]v value (for inc·orne tax purposes) ~of barrack accommodation provided for single police?

" 4. Do the single police in barracks have to make their own beds and keep barrack dorrnitorics in order, and does tbe furniture of such dormitories consist in the main, of a bed and rough pin~ locker for each n1an ?

·' 5. In view of the fad that a corn· fortahlc and reasonably furnished room may be secured ot any centre in Queensland for 5s. or 6s. a week, is the departmental value of barrack accommodation (£18 5s.) C':CC8'iVP '?

"6. Is it correct that plain,clothes police receive '1 total annual plain-clothes allowarK" of £27 7s. 6d. a year, or is there a deducrion 0f 1.s. 6d. a dav made from such allowance during the time members of that S<'ction of the force are on sick leave and annual leave?"

The HO:\fE SECRETARY (Hon. J. C. Pctcrson, "Yormanby) replied-

" 1. None. "2. Approximately 247.

" 3. This question should be addressed to the Trea,urer.

" 4. First part-yes. Second part-no; other conveniences of lodgings beside those mentioned a.re provided,

"5. :!'Jo.

" 6. The a v, ard (clause 10 (2)) provides for payment of this allowance ' whilst engaged on ,uch duty and wearing plain clothes.' "

:\'rGHTFLO\YER :\IIXE-LOAN TO KNIGHT AND PARTY.

Mr. O'KEEFE (Cairns): I desire to ask the Secr<'tary for ::Vlincs if he has an answer lo the follo":ing questions which I addressed to him on Tur "day, 5th instant :-

" 1. \Vhat. amount of loan money was advauced by the ]\Tines Department to ICnight and party in connection with the ::\'ightflo\\er mine in the Chillagoe district?

"2. vYhat t'mnag-e of ore was left at. grass at' the Nightflower mine by Knight and party when the smelters closed down, and wa' the ore registered by Knight and party?

"3. \Yho were registered as owners or owner of the Xightf!ower mine after Knight and party had ceased operations on ~)uch rnine?

" 4. \Yas the ore left at grass at the Nightflowcr mine by Knight and party subsequently treated by the Chillagoe 'melters? 1 f so, to whom were proceeds paid, and what was the amount of san1e? "

The SECRETARY FOR :\1IKES (Hon. E. c\. Ath rton, Chillagoe) replied-

" The aH>WPr, have not yet come to ha.,d, but I will furnish them as soon as they co1ne. 1 '

LOA::-1 TO . 'iRGEXTt::l! :\liNING COMPAXY 0

:\Ir. O'KEEFE (e"irns): I desire to ask the Secret'ln for :\lines if he has an answer to the follm;·ing question which I addressed to him on Tuesday, 5th instant:-

" \Yhat an1ount of loan money 'vas advanced by the Mines Department to the Argentum :\1ining Company, Limited, for the "·orking of its group of mines, including the Nightflower?"

The SECRETAHY FOR l\IINES (Hon. E. A. Athenon, Chillagoe) replied-

" Tho ans ~,-... crs het v o not yet con1e to hand. but l will furnish rhem as soon as they, come."

l'uBLICATIOx oF QuARTERLY STATE:IlENT OF Tm:ASVRY RETURXS TO 30TH JUNE, 1930.

C.Ir. PEASE (Herberl), without notice, asked the Treasurer~

" In view of the fact that Parliamenl; is to be asked to,day to vote an appropriaJion on ac,~onnt of Supply, \Vhen is it· likelv that the Treasurer wiil publish the quarterly statement of the Treasury retums for the period ended 30th J unc, 1930, which ,,·ill indirato the di,posal of the public funds as at that date, and enable Padia1ncnt to express an intelligent vet as to whether the temporary appropriation "·hich the Government is sc•ekinc· to,Jay is required before the prescntoJIOn of the Estimates for the curreni; financial year '? n

The TREAS'GRER (Hon. W. H. Bames, ll'ynnum) replied--

" The answer to the hon. member's f[u··stion can only be one-that the information will be supplied in due course."

·628 Personal E:rplanation. [ASSEMBLY.] Suspension of Stanriin;; Orders.

QFESTION OF PRIVILEGE.

\\'rTHDRA"IVAL OF XoTrcE OF MoTION.

::'.fr. DF::\LOP (llocklwmpton): I hereby aslc permission of the House to withdraw my notice of motion for a reduction of the num · her of membdrs to fiftv. as I do not consider that the opportunities offered on private members' day are adequate for the proper fl nd sensonPd di~~n~sion of so InorrHmtous a qu0stion. I am ,; :sirous instead to take the upportunity offtn _l me when tho Estnnates cc11ne on in connecJ ~,' ith the vote fo1· the Lr,-rislatin~ .A~~unbly to bring this question fairly and definitely before the House.

will of the I-IouJo lloc khampton be

v1 d1P Jl(JticP ot motion :<-tn:c on -the ln1siucss-paper

to the reduction of the nurnbcr uf Pt~diatlll'lll?

I-roxor:;.:_\ u~ ~<E-~B~-._,~s: JJcnr, bo~u·;

:\otj,:e cf n1otion '.~.~ithdr~nYn accordingly.

l'ERSOc\AL F:XPLAX_\TIO~.

The SECHEL\RY FOil PGBLIC I.'\STHUCTIO:\ :Hon. n. 1\l. King, Logan): I ask the pcrn1i.~sion uf tho l-Iouse to 1nake 'l personal e:~q;lanation.

The SPEAIZER: Is it the pleasure of the Hoasc that the So :retary for Public Instruction be allowed to rnake a personal explana~ tion?

I-loxOl!HABLE ::.\1IDIBER~: Heir, hear !

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTRUCTION: During the coursf· of the debate veeterdav afternoon in connection with the" Crown" Remedies Act Amendment Bill, the Leader of the Opposition stated that it was on a certain file that I had stated that I would use mv influence to have certain bonds forfeited to the Crown returned to Messrs. Connolly and Sleeman. I was not aware of the fact that such a thing was on the file; but I ha ,.e since had the opportunity of reading it, and I find that in a report dated 12th February, 1930, made by the officer in charge of the Criminal Investigation Branch, and signed by Detective Sergeants 0' Driscoll and Henderson, there appears this pat·agraph :-

" Connollv also stated that the Hon. R. M. Kit{g, now Minister for Educa· tion and \Yorks, promised both him and Sleeman that. as soon as the Nationalist l'arty got into power, the bonds and mane,- forfeited to the Crown would bo rettu;ll'd to thcu1."

That is eYidently the paragraph to which the hon. mcmlwr referred. ln reply I wish to state that I do not know Connolly, and, as far as I c1n recollect, I have ne\·er spoken lo him in mv life. It is, therefore. obvious t'1at I could· not ha ye made such a- promise to Conuollv. So far as Sleeman is concemcd. I c~n say ddinitely and emphatically that I ncYPr made such a promise to him; neither did I. either directly or indirectly, le1d him to infer from any corn-ersation I had with him that 'uch a promise had been made. either by Hprecs words of by implication. (Opposition interruption.)

The SPEAKER : OrdN !

[111r. Dunlop.

PAPER. The follo"-ing paper w«s laid on the

table:-Ordinance under " The City of Brisbane

Act of 1924 "-Proceedings by the Council, dated the 21st August, 1930.

CO:t\CESSIO.'\S I.'\ RAILWAY RATES BY WAY OF STATE Sl'BSIDY TO I:t\DUSTHY.

l\lr. \Y. FORCA.'\ s:UITH (JI11ckay): 1 beg to nlove-

" That ther· be laid of the Hou-c

such

ratL..:J,

actnal agp;TCM amou11t of the accl·uing to

becnus-c of the· operatlon of the COliC'· ~1011 r;;_ic;;.

variation~. if an~.,7 , in the -·;:nl~;e of anv a1nondn1ent to

concc~~-..ion rate:;;:' tii.) .any a~ditio:wl sub-id:.: becrrlL3e of thu applica-tion of further coner~/.ion rate';, to new indn;trv or indnstrie.. not benefitiug hitherto. granted by the pr·es:'nt Go" '-'rnnH'nt sin<:e their a{'ces~ion to office."

Que3tion put .and pa~sed.

SUSPE:\SIO:\ OF STA:\DEG OHDERS.

APPROPRIATIOX BILL . .'\0. 1.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC 1.'\STRUCTIO:\ (Hon. R. .:\I. King, Logan) : I beg to move-

,, That ~o much of the Standing o,·ders be suspended as would otlwrwise prevent the recciYing of n:~olution:S frorn Corn· mittccs of Supply and \Yays and Means OP the :--atnc dav as thev shall havP p~ssed in those "Committees, and the passing of au Appropriation Bill through all its stage~ jn one day."

l\fr. \Y. FORUX'\ SMITH (Jlackay): \Yhen lllOving this motion I expected the Actinrr Leader of the Uovcrnment to grY(' somo "reasons why the Appropriation Bill should be paeocd through all its stages in one day. He might plead urgency iu providing the neccs'<Hy Supply to maintain the pubhc services of the State: but l would like to point ont that in voting iarge ums of rnonev Parliament should give very full considcr~tion to the proposed expcnditllrf'. and should han• from the Government a full and explicit statement of the geueral financial position of the State. \Ye know that quite recentl;r a C'onference of the l)remiers and Treasurers of the Yarious States and Ministers of the Commonwealth Government was held in Melbourne. Much publicity has been given to the diseuS3ions at the conference; and thP l'L'ports in the press would

Suspension of Standi.1g Orders. [27 AuGUST.] Supply. 6?9-

seem to indicate that decisions of farreaching conseqn0ncc to all the States have be0n arriYct! at at that conference. That being ~o, there i:-' very good reason why full tin1e should be g-iven to discussing an Appropri'ttion Bill. \\'hy shonld millions of pounds h<J voted bv Parliarnent in one day? \Vhat is tho urgency on the part of the Govern' mcnt, who dc"ire to put through an Appropriation Bill inYolving millions of pounds in ono day·: A complete disc·1ssion of the fir:·mc;e! po.sition of Queensland in <~I! its ra1nilicatio~.:-: is opportune at the present 1i1nc. and tho Bill is onr that should not be hurried in nnY rcs.pect 'Yhat~ocver. Bv rncan~ of pt~blicit:· in -fhis House the publi0 {'an re-ceive a full knowledge of the general position, and thereby know the facts as it affects tiwm. I object to a Bill inYolving millions of pounds being hmrie(l through all it-; ~tages in this fashion.

The THEAS'GHER (Hon. W. IL Barnes, 1l"!f1111Uiit}: Tn reply to the LcaJer of the Oppocition. I desire to state that at a later qage it is Dl,V intention to tuako a fairly fnll f:tntonlr~nt. of _the fillancial position.

:\h. POI.LOCK: \Yhich stage arc you referling to?

The TUEAS'CHER: On going into ComInittec, before passing any an1ount.

Mr. POLLOCK: At the opening of Committee of Suppl:,-?

The TREAS'CRER: Yes.

Mr. W. FoRGAC' S1UTH: That Is before you open the Committee?

The TREASuRER: Xot now. but at a later stage, after getting into Con1mittec.

Mr. \V. FORGA}; SMITH: \Vhat is the urgency of doing all tbis in one day?

Tlw T'RE_.\SURER: If the hon. memlwr only gives me a little time, I will reply to his argument. I assume that the hon. member would be one of the vcrv first to con1plain if it was. found that \ye ~rere short of cash and unable to pay our public s.crvwe.

Mr. POLLOCK: \Ye left. Yon plenty of monev t0 carry on with. ~ ~ "

The TREASURER : The hon. member has asked a gucst,ion. I am ad,·iscd by my officers that It Is 11L'1"~C'srary t.o rnakc provision for Supply.

Mr. W. FnRGAX SMITH: By what date?

The SPEAKER : Order !

The TREASUHER: that it is abscdut~)lv Supply this week. ·

:\ly officer> IH)ccs ary to

advi"~o obtain

}\;Jr. \\'. Fo::taA:-; S 'HTH: But this is only \V cdnesday :

The TREAS0RER: lt SLenl~ ahno~t irnpossibk that the hou. m<m1bcr want. Supply to bo grnnt<'d. (Opp~siiion laughter.) To-rnorro\Y i~· on!:.' Thursda:--, and to-rnorrow nftrrncon 1<;). d.JYotcd to th( dis-~ussion of

".' bufl.in::>ss. The hon. mcm,Lnts to cJc:priYc some hon.

opportnnity of expressing need for th),, rnotion is

rf the Sta t·' require as cxpeditiou·:ly as

Qu,,tion (J!.fr. £ling's motion) put and passed.

SUPPLY. YOTE ox Accou:\T-£3,300,000. }!ESSAGE FHO}l THE GOYERXOR.

'l'hc SPEXKER annonncPd the receipt from His Bxcel!cncv th~ Go,-crnor of a Inf'')'mgc reco1nn1ond{ng that the following proYi "ion be n1ado on account of the services of the year ending 30th June, 1931 :-

" From the Consolidated Revenue Fund of Quccnstand (exclusive of the moneys standing to the credit of the Loan Fund Account} the sum of £2,000,00CJ;

" From the Trust and Special F_unds the sum of £1,000,000; and

" Fron1 the n1oncys standing to the credit of the Loan Fund .Account the sum of £300,000."

0PExrxa oF CmDIITTEE.

Tho TREAS'CRER (lion. W. II. Barnes, Wynnmn): I beg to move-

" That you do novv leaYe the chair, and the H"ouse resoh·e itself into a Committee of the ·whole to consider the Supply to be granted to His :\Iajesty."

i\1r. PEASE (Herb' tt): Before you leaYe the chair, Yi.r. Speaker, there arc scYeral matters which tho Opposition would particularlv like to discuss, more especially in view of the answers just giYen by the Treasurer. 'What we arc alarmed about is that, at this time, when wo are told that the greatest financial depression that has over faced the State is upon us, a policy of "Hush, hush!" has apparently been adopted by the Government. Throughout the session any question that has been asked from thio side of the House for the purpose of eliciting infor~ation about finance has been astutely st.detracked bv the Treasurer. The party now on the Government benches have all along adopted that policy of "Hush, hush!"

During the war, when these [3 p.m.] people were in power, t.he same

policy of "Hush, hush!'.' was adopted. and the people were not g•ven a chance to express themsch·es. Just as that policy proved wrong in the time of war, so it will prove wrong during the time of fmancial crisis. ·

If over there was a time when the Treasurer should be frank with the people of Quec,nsland, that time is the present. It is the dutv of t,he Premier and the Treasurer to take· the people of Queensland into their onfidencc at a time like the present. But \' clat treatment do WC receive? Questions put by hon. r'1cm hers on this side of the I-Ious<' arc delib0ratclv side-tracked. and no information is forthcoming. Only to-day .•, question ''a.; a:;:.kccl ns to \Yhen the quartcr1~T str:t:>rncnt regardinp; the finances for the three mon+hs end0d 30th June lust would ho avaihble. Th:tt information is not yet aYailable. although \Yt:' a1e now in the 1nonth of Angu~i". \\~hen Labour \Yas 111 no~' er, 1 he jnformation \'i'as gi-ren long before that time. :\lore 1vcr, when Labour was in power, tlw Lead<•>· nf the Opposition 'iV3 tak£·n into tlw confidpnce of the GovernnLllt. and could go tn '~Je Treasury ~nd get the i_tformcl:ion which is now denr~d to us. It iR ab~olutely scandalous that. In this tirne of QtF~cnslaricrs Lrl:d, the Lea0-er of His Majesty's Opposition should be demccl the right to go to the Treasur:; and examine the affairs of Queensland. If ever there

]11 r. P ea.se.]

£3G Supp'y. [ASSEMBLY.] SuppT;J.

wa~ a time when he should haYe that right, 1t 1s no1Y, because we ha....-e in charge of the financPs of Queensla!ld to-day th<o most tragic TrL•asm·er who has on•r han'dled the finance• of the State-a Treasurer who has novv handed us the grc .• tC'·t deficit that Queensland has cn·r known. I a.<k the fmancial gentlemen vtho are fitting behind the Government: Are they m tidied to let the 'Treasurer control the whole of tho affairs of this State, to g·o to the Loan Council and pledge the name of the "State, and to koep t-ilont as to \;Yhat he ha:-; do no?

It is an absolute insult to hon. members on both sides of the House that, at a time when the Tr0asurer is. about to deliver his first Fina';'cial Statement asking for Supply, the Prcmwr, who should be here has taken " holida::. Just imagine the 'position of a gentleman on whom Queensland is dependmg to pull the State out of this trouble taking a holida v when the Treasurer is about to deliver a statement as to the financial position' And for what purpose is the Premier taking a holiday? To open a omall country show! Again I ask hon. members sitting· behind tho Government if they _are satisfied with that state of affairs, and 1f they arc content that the Premier of Queensland should go awav to open a country show at a time when ·he should be pr~sent in Parliament to tell us what is ·gomg to happen? The Premier has just attended a Loan Council meeting-probablv the rno:5t Inon1cntous n1ceting of its kind tha~t l1as . ever be on ho)d in the history of A ustraha. 'The Premier returns, makes a statement to the press-c r at least a section of the press-and then the hon. gentleman runs .a way from his position in the House to open a country show ! It is an absolute scandal, and the people of Queensland will not stand for it when thev realise what is happening. I submit that yesterday the Premier shonld have moved the adjournment of the House and should have given Parlia~ent an abaolutely full report of the happcmngs at the conferPnce in Melbourne. His own members should have demanded that. Even theY have not been told what has happened. Certainly the hon. gentleman met the Cabinet, but what a Cabinet ! I want hon .. member< to realise that the ·Cabinet of Queensland to-dav is not even .an elected one, but is a seiected Cabinet. Wheel Labour was in power and represented the majority of the constituencies of Queensland, the Labour Cabinet was elected bv the. members ?f the. party, who represented var1ous consbtuencif' throughout Queensland. Every member of our Cabinet was cle<ced. but what about the present Cabinet? Nfembers opposite elected their Premier, and then the PrcmJer selPcted the Cabinet and what a Cabinet he has 'elected! I' chalJen'C·c the financial people who are sitting bohn;d tho GoY(~rDn1Fnt: Are thev rroin<)" to allov. the Premier of Queenslan"d "to ·~run away fr;=nn hi~ duty? Are they going to allo . Hns trag1c Treasurer, who has handed out the grc.a~cst deflcit. Queensland has ever Lad, to do th-,sc things at the Loan Council \dthm1t an:v .tion; Do thc7 not rcaJio;,e th~t it i~ an -u1t to thcn1? V

1\lr. Tz,_-L:·): To \Yhich Trf' 1surer arc you referring?

. Iofr. PEASE: The. Tn .tsurr>r sittinf~ oppo~"·H·; thP n1ust tra:,_.rc Trt?a~tH', r Queensland Lr;.s cv-!r had; the Trc,'rurcr who vvas left

"Wlth the gr,:atc·,t amoqnt of noney t'o spend!

[Mr. Pease.

Quccnsbnd ":~ dw C'nlv State in .t-\ustralia wlJich ''as in a sclYPLlt ~condition; the only Staie \Yhich had a "l'r>ch• balan'"'o 111 England a-5 -r;e:l o;s here; the State v;hich ha·d the grc1tc3t chnnc0 of getting out of this dcpresswll without 01nv trouble. \Vhat has he done with it? He h;,. so mishandled the finances of the State--I am refcrri11g- to his own remarks • -h,,n lw ·delin:red hi- Bndget Speech ht5t, vcar ancl forecast a srnall deficit. If hon. mPm.bcrs tnrn up "Hansrtrd," they will flnd that he said. "Althoug-h I anticipate this little ddirit, I thi11k that, with my handling of the financu of Queensland. I won't even show :vou this rlcficit." \Yhat has happened? Month aftPr month what wP told him would h"ppen 1 His poliry of deflation-his policy of depreciating the purchasing power of the peoph'-has put Queensland in such a positiCJn that month a ft.er month his revenue is dPrn~ ~sin~:, a Hhough OYC'll a short twelve rnont.hs ago he ~.1id that v,ould not happen. The financial men ,,jtling b8hind the GovernDIC'Dt. in.stcarl of checking him, arc allowing hlrn to go on. Thev are allo,•ving him to go dmYn to the Loan Council and to pledge the credit and future of Queensland ; to dissinate our money, and to do what he likes with it; and the Pl'emie1· treats hon. members so chndishlv that he runs awav and does not eycn givf.n }1on. n1crnbers a ;taternent. It is the dutv of the Premier of the State to be herf-' an'd not to run a\vay to the country. To-day the workers of Queensland are sufferin!': tho burd<en. because it is onlv the workers who ha,-e bePn asked to malm sacrifices. The \\orkers of QueensLmd altogether have lost wages amonnting to £2,000.000; and the man who controle tho lives and fuhn·o of these people and of eYel'\" business n1an in this State runs away fl:om his job instead of taking hon. 1nembers int'o his confidpnco ! I \\ould remind members of the Government of the remarks \vhich mv friend the hon. mcmbN for Bowen has sr) oft,en quoted-the remarks of Gladstone. Gladstone. who was ' great statesman. asked the people of the world whcnPver the world was g·oinO' throuo-h unv cri si~ '"ho it \Yas that' alv, Uvs ;as fou~d to· be correct. Not yoUJ• great financial cxperts~not 0•our men who run the financial ir.:-:titutions. Gla.d8tonE> said-

" I nainfully reflect that, when the nations' crises exist, it' is a.lwavs the ordinary people that arc found correct."

So to-dav in this financial crisis, not only in Quecnslnnd and Australia, but throughout the world, when the final day comes, it will be found that the experts and your financial mPn are not. conect. 'The men who will be found corr0Ft will be the people who are telling hon. n1en1 bers opp,)site tO pause in what they arc doing; who are telling- them thaJ· they arr> dcstro~·ing the purchasing power of thr pc-oplP. Hon. nwmbero opposite arc not only bringing Queensland to a bnd state, but th_r-~- an: nrobably .~oing to_ do :;on1cthing that \Yill t ·d.;:e year~ ana years to OYCI'\o.ne. \Vh:v do hon. nl'_mbcrs opposite not listen to the ncople 1 'They will not give us a chance. 'V e in this Parl1ain 'nt rcprC··cnt tht: seventy-two constitucnclPs of Queensland, and 'i\'C haYe a dul v to OlH' ('OP· -itu'·nts. \Ye• sh.Jtlld face tltP ~ pl···ition frP-:oh- n .. d fro.nkJv; hnt 0-v-erv 1-inH' on 1-h: ~;de try to do 'sornd'}ljll~' vve t_n_· \::0·d hv th0 Prern1er and ~L'rea-:::1lrC·l', v·lll p·i,-e us no iuforn1ation .

I \Vtll~t to going

illl· rmly b:. Qt"~f'i1;

\ 1:hethcr the monC':· power ut this tim0. Is

to be considered pc w ·r? That is

Supply. [27 AUGUST.] Supply. 631

what hon. gentlemen opposite are doing. The Treasurer and the Premier go down to tlw conference at J\Ielbourne. 'l'hcv arc not considering the workers of Queensland; they arc not considering the business people. All they arc consiJcring is the money power. I,ook at what has happ(ned! \Ve have now in .._\nstralia a n1an called Nien1ever. No flouLt- h0 is a nlghhnaro to the" Premier and the Treasurer, as he is probably to most people. He has come out to toll us what we uc to do, and I am alarmcJ to think that Nicmcycr is in Australia dictating the polic:·, not of the people of the wodd Ol'

the people of Qucenslancl and Aush'alia, but r _ prcsPnbng solely t hr i-inanf'ial interests of Britain. While he is here what is happening?

:\h. KELSO: \Yho brought him here" Mr. Scull in.

:\Ir. PEASE: I will t(•ll the hon. member "\Yho brought hirn hcrr-. rrhe lllOTIC\.· power in Enghcnd has dared to send him cables which the prc" has published. What are tho e cables tQlling him to do? Thee;' are telling him to toll Anstmlia that. if she dares to continue her present fiscal policy, not onlv ,,.ill thev not stand for what i.s going· on to-day. 'but they will give us no more money and will put in the bailiffs. I h.tvc seen oblcs from England published in the precs directing the attention of the people of \ustralia to the fad that :1\iemeyer is out tu do his job. For whom? I say for the financial interests.

Mr. KELSO: \Yherc did you get all that 'fron1?

Mr. PEASE: That is in the newspapers. He savs Australia must not alter her fiscal polic·;: as, if she does. the moneyed people in England will deal with her. If ever th<•re was a time when the Premier and the Treasu!'er should g·o down to the Loan Council and stand up for Qcwensland, it is TIO\Y.

Illr. KELSO: They stood up for Queensland.

:}1r. PEASE : Thev absolutelv did not. If eYer there wets a ·time when' we should 11ave a Premier and Treasurer in Queensland like the g•'cat. Disracli. who put the moneyed J t'\Y:;; in their placPs, it is now. I am sorry the Premier is not in his place. The Premier wa' prc·sent at the screening of a film in Bri~bane son1c tin1e ago~I do not know whether the Treasurer ''"as there, but I hope h.: saw it-a film in which the great Disraeli w.:s portrayed.

A Gon:m-;:m:;o;T· :\IDIBEH: DiJ you go to see it?

:I<Ir. PEASE: I wc11t to sPe it, and I was pkased to sec the Premier there; but I am sorry i o ·ty he js not taking notice of \vhat ht-' sa\v thcr0. Th0rp wa' the great Disracli, who \Va Prime ::\linister of England. The Bank of England at that time "as doing exactlv whal'. is bcin:·· clmw bv the financial intcrc~t,, to-dav. Tilat hank ~refn"·~d to do v;hat it shonh1 h.1n~ donp for England, and the governor of the b:mk s.·id. "\Ve will not

·give ~vou th;• lnGne:v to enab1~- you to secure c.mtrol of 1h · Suez Canal." J noticed that the Prcrnier \YLS taking ye-;·y groat i_:_tPrcst. in the fihn. Di"rae1i fought thE~ Dank of Engle.nd~ and for~~ J the gov(~rnor of tho b~nk io cm11P to l1irrL Disrn.o1i said "You must find this mane:· fee· England. ' If Y"JU

d" not do it, th" Gm·ernmPnt "-ill take certain action to holJblc your enterprise"; and ±he' governor of th" Ballk of England climbeJ

clown and found the mone:"·· I was surprised tu find even jn tho " Courier " on Saturday last a't article r<'flccting favourably on tho g"l'C'<ll 1)isracli, in \Yhich it ,'aid that it was dnc to Disracli that our King is nov• Emperor of India. If ever there \Vas a time "hen '' c should have in Queensland a Premier game to go down to this money pmYer and state what Queensland has done in the past, and talk in the way Disraeli talked to the Bank of England, now is the timr'. History repeats itself. \Ye havo to~day the n1oncy povvcr.J of the world coming lwrc and dictating to Australia what our future policy ~hould be; and wo have in Qul't~ns1and a Pr·_-,tnier and Trt~usurer \vho go down i o 2\Idbounw and allow this man "\ icrncycr to put anything he likes over them. The people of Queensland should know what 1~ goi!lg on, and that is the reason why \VO

arl' te:viug in our place in this I-Iouse to ~how thl' pnop1e the real position. This iR not the fir,t time that Queensland has had to stand up to the n1oney po\vers of the ,,,·orl(l.

\Yhen Labour first came into power in Queensland, what happened? \Ve had the great mmwy boycott of those days. A delegation vv..1s even sent home to Englandnot to do anything for the workers or the people of Queensland, but to queer Queens-land's pitch. (Government interruption.)

The SPEAKER: Order !

l\[r. PEASE: To see that Queensland's lilOllt'Y supplies were withheld. But in thos0 day-, fortunately, we had a Premier and a Trc:tsnrer who had the backhonc to fight them. Our Premier went home, and forced thP money power to give him what he wanted. How did he do it? He had to fight the ILnk of England. First of all, he found out that ht' could get money in America. if England was disloyal enough to turn him clown. The monev interests in Englalld-the Ba.nk of England-did turn him down, and he went to America, which gaYe him the money. I sat in my place in this House on the night when the news was cireulated that the American loan had been Hoatecl successfully. It was late at night, and I 'remember the present Treasurer said '"c ·wore disloYal to take monev from \merica. He, was not concerned about

gPtting n1oney from .A .. merica. \Vhat he was cooccrned about was that the plot had failed. The plot to hobble Labour in power in Queens.!and had failed, thanks to the good fight of our Treasurer.

\\'hat is happening to-day? I say without an)T hesitation that a money boycott is going on just the same now as then, because m Australia we have a Commonwealth Labour GoYornn1ent in po\vcr. That is the whole strength of it. If the Government jn power in Australia to-day vtere not a Lf!bonr GoYt'Tnruont, \'1.8 'vould not have this d.::- legal-ion r, pr( ..:0niit g the In one:-- interests oYr>r:cas. I say th, ... ,t, the n1oney boycott i3 >olclv aiwcd at the fact that to-dav in the { \nn~nmnYcaltll Parllarnent \VB ·have a Labonr GoYernn1cnt, and th0 n1oncy po\vors do not a Labour Government, be. · .. w~·e, if a Go..-crnn1ent stAnds for allY· thiu:;. stand for tlw people. \Ye stand for all pec)le, Jnd for the f1eYelopn1cnt ('£ thP tr.:-, the devclcprnpnt, of Au<LJiu; "nd thc~o 1HOL2V po-r:·e13 want to t·1ke C'DTI

t rol frmn our hands. TllP;;r arc of the l1~1rd facts that tho

Tren ,ur.'r and Premier should have told

1'<11'. Pease.]

63~ Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] SuppZy.

this n1oney-power delegate when they 1net. I 'vas reading· only to-day a report made by the Acting Prime Minister of Australia, who pointed out that already Australia had Ntid £500.000.000 in interest to the monev }1owcr overseas. Yet this n1oney pOIYC;. dares to come along and dictate to us over a few paltry millions! I ask the Treasurer: Did he stand up at the Loan Council meeting "\Yh0n Sir Otto :Xicrncycr \ as present and say, " )dread~· we have paid you £50D.GOO,OOO. Do ~-ou \\·ant more than that? Do you \Vftllt lnore than ~·our vound of flc·sh :" I am quit<' eatisGcd that he went down thoro meek aml mild. and swallowed an.ything that Sir Otto ::\icmeyer told him.

Thcr-: is one thing I have already pointed ont-that there is no Lurki11g the rlenHLncl so far as the "\Yorker:-:: arc coucerncc1. The worker has no ono to put his case for him {'Xccpt the fe 1 ' LaLour Govcrn1nents and Opposition8 nf Australia. \Yhat htts happened a!rcad v throughout Australia.? The defla.tion and \vage-rcduction stunt, which originated in Quc"nsland. The first thing the Jl.foore-Barnes GoYcrnment did was to reduce \\;age:::. That ha:-; sjnce been carried on throughout Awtralia. \Yhat doe8 it mean? Alroadv in l~ueen,Jand it moans that £2.000.000 ·has br en taken from the yearly purchasing power of the people£40,000 a week ! You sec it reflected eYcry,,·hcrc.

The hon. member for Oxlc:v pointed out how stocks had depreciated. Of course they have, for the simple reason that the Government have started the policy of reducing the purchasing power of the people. As a result business and eYerything else are going to suffer. Look at what it means throughout the whole of Australia.-a reduction of £25.000,000 a year to the workers !

There is no one to protect the workN ~part from his organisations, together with a few Labour Parlia.menl·s in Australia. The n1oney power is to be f"acrosanct, and must not bC' touched. \\-hy have interest rates not been a.ttacked? Arc the interest rates to remain as at present? Are they not to come down in proportion to reductions in other diredions" \Vas· that matter raised at the Loan Council bv tho Premier and the Treasurer? \Vhy is tho Premier not prc•ent in the House to tell us what is being done in connection with interest ra tos? Are the workers as a class the only section to be attacked? Already their wages have been reduced, resulting in a. curtailment of the spending power of the community. The Government haYc taken no stand w,hatcYcr rc·;arding intere,_t payments.

\Vhat have the banks of Australia. done in thi8 great crisiE" Recently I read a book which referred to lho proposed esta.blishmPnt of a. Federal reserve bank. l\fr. Theodore. '"ho was then Federal Treasurer, vvas ~skcd a question concerning the proposal and he stated that, when the representatives of the banks of Australia attended the first Lo 1,n Ccuncil DIC'eting, he '·'· HS astounded to learn that the~· knew nothing whatever about exchang(' tnatterB as lwtwe·-'1 Australia, nr:rl Lnnrlon. Thev did not know what their re:<'Jurccs iu Lonrlon \YC!'e. and thcv had taken no step::: wha.teYcr to deal wjth any impendin;; crisis. In th:-t conncclion I am rcm:in·icd ilv1t ProfcsB·Jr JJrigdcii, \v . .hen speaking at the Rotary Club the other da.·. pointed out that the excha11g-o rates wcl·c going to cost Queensland £2,000,000 durin"

[Mt·. Pease.

the present financial vca.r. Yet we ftnd thal the great ba.nking in'stitutions of Australia.. np to a few months ago, had taken no steps whatcv0r to meet this diflkulty and to provide for it. \Vhcn the Labour Govemment \Ycro in power in Quc0nsland they foresa\v tho a11proaching cri~;" somo :ears ago, and f'Ct about con:-;r>rYing the finances of the State. vrith the r0sult that we \VCrf' able to hand OYE'r to thP prcscut tragic Treasurer ovPr £5,000.000 of loan rnonev. \Yhat did he do with l.hat rnoncv' H,; loaned it to tlw ollwr States .,o th~t the C< mtruction of the :'\onh Shore bridge' could be completed. l ask the Trcasnrer if. ·.~"·h0n he \Vas in Sydney. lw had noticed that the connecting spa.ns of the C\ orth Shore bridge had b~en linked. and if he had ~aiel, "There is that bt:.>autiful R:vdn0y bridge no\V linked up, thanks to the monev which I should have spPnt in Queensland' for the benefit of the v,orkns and the people of this State."

The Altoi'ncv-Goncral has asked who im·ited ?\iemcvf'r to this countrv? I shall tell him, and (shall tell him who 'was rf!sponf'iblf' fot· his appcara.nce in this country. First of all. I wish to intimate to him that I was very iuterPi'h'd in certain H'lllal'ks 1nade hv th" P1:ince of v,-ales the other dav. Ho had \,;;en a.u 0ntlmsiastic player of goif, but lw lwd found that he was getting worse instead of better, and he prorl'Pded to investigate to a<SC'C'rtain the reason. He \Yanted to knuw ,,-hy he had hecomc a worse player. and he placed himself in the hands of a golfer, who told hin1. " You a re foozEng because you have had too much expert adYicc. If you will rnerel:v play your natural game and clcyc]op lha.t. you will become a good golfer." I now say to the Treasurer that he has been lish'ning io too much expert ach·ice. more particularly the advice of this man NiemoYer: that is whv he has been foozling w ,;1uch. and has be<>n foozling the people of Quocmland. who are now going through a. stale of deprcs-ion hitherto unprecedented in this State. It is tnw that this ::\!icmeyer was invited to Australia. by t.he· Commonwealth Government. which ~rives ample proof that the Commonwealth Governuwnt realised the position. They brought ::\!iemoyer to Australia to examine the position. On his arrival in Australia he said 111 an int<>rview with the press-

" I have been itwited bv the Common· wealth Government as a' representative of t.he Bank of England to consult with the Commonwealth Government and the Commonwealth Bank first of all to studv and inquire into the pr(-"''ent position and then to discuss it with the Commonwealth authorities."

That was Lis job. in his own words. The .. Brisbano C )Ur1C'r " of 15th August, in an article under the caption of " Facing the T0rn1s," :::ajd~

"It is quite obvious frnn statcmenti3 mnde bv the Trnsurcrs of J\pw South \Yalcs a·nd South _\m:ra.lia. and also by our L" ·n 'I'''"a.:.:.nrce. that Sir Otto NoiA 111('Ver has lnirl down rms \vjth whieh hC' ·,rjJl rrqnire· < ngrePment.'~

Our Trc'""" r h:,.s cYidently told someone tha 1· th ~t is so. bt'('[U.lf'O hrs o-v;n paper. Dr f he pn~Jel' y,-hich rrfl.cch the opinions of hi~ poljticill p 'riy. has e~·rditc·d hirn ,yjt'h ~ay1ng !-'o. r_nwt i~ ~.vh.v I an: taking the rrreasurer to task. S1r Otto Nlern0yer ha3 no 111ore right to tell the Treasurer what 1

GO do or to-

Supp'y•

h ,. clown term' than I have-and I ha.,-c nOne•. Sir Ono Nirn1ever wa~ Dnlv brought hPrc to ~liscuss the situ~tion. The •'' CouriCr'' hm. "aid that he has laid down terms. What 111n_;_oys me i~ that onr own Goyernm0nt have ~leccDtt'd hi"' tcrrns. becau~c the l)rernicr and Tn_a-~Trcr haYc returned to Queensland fron1 the c·c•nfePnce which was held with Sir Otib ::'\iL"llH':vcr in iv[clbournc to put into force v;hot Sir Otto ::'\iunc_rer has told them to do. I hv.Ye said bdorc thrrt thanks to the great Di•racli our l{in,g is Empt~ror of Inc1in. and tLat W£' nee cl a Disr.aeli, ·because, if ever we \Y<.l1(l'd a man like Disraeli in Quccmlancl to tc•!l the money powC'r just what it• position i; in rdation to the Government. and to say, "You will have to listen to us,'' it is at the prr,~r::·n·; tin1c.

:VIr. l\nnro: vYhat about you?

;\Ir. PEASE: I would ha Ye stood up for Qucemlanci--a State in which I thoroughly bdieve. Tlw hon. member ask0d me what I ' ould clo. I would tell this money power. ~-For too long have \Ye given ~'VU your pound oF flesh; and vou will now have to listen to m." Ancl th0~: would have to listen to us. \Yho is Sir o'tto Kiem<>ver? He certainlv represents the Bank of Ei1gland; but that i's only a trailing hank. lt is not cvca a Govcrnmt'nt bank. The total proprietors' capital of the B:.nk of England is only £14.500,000. That i» to sa0, there is only £14,500,000 of priv,tte cap1i1l invested in the Bank of EngluEd. Yet we permit the representative ()f this bank to come to Australia and lay down 1'-'rrns affprting every rna.n, won1an, and child in Queenelancl and Australia, and a weak Tr(~asurf'r and an absent Prernier-a Pn:mier more noted bv },is absence from this House than for his p;·e-.ence-weakly submit to him! Queensland is going to Ruffe1· as a result. Who is in control of the Bank of England? Io is controiled by twenty-five ·directors. eight ( 1 f vd10n1 reprr~0nt An1erican intere~t·S. nnd four rcpn'sent GPrrnan interests. In other words. twelve of its director· repreecnt Arn0rinan and German intprrt-ts. And the;:;t_• arc~ the interests d.ictating to our Ttcasurer. t•.•lling him what he should do and what he !:ihould not do ;

:VJl'. ~DL\.0: How ran the,- dictate 1Yhcn the State owes th(·l11 no 1nonCy?

. '\Ir. PE.\ SE: ~he Bank of England Js an Htt0rnational trading concern. Its concern is J~ot England; its only concern is diYidends ft.nd prof-its.

Mr. 1\nr:.w: \Ye owe the Bank of England r;othiug.

~fr. PEASE: I am only telling thi~ House ~ "har ?ir Ot to :\ icmcycr said, as the Tn~aRun)r 11as not ~ecn fit to take hon. members in'.) his con!ldcnre. This is what he has

"The st::tndard of li\·inp· in "\ust"alla !"eat !r:d a poin1- bcyonc~ ~he capacit:;t

t '1" r Juntry to be-ar \vlt.n"out a con~; lf>r:' l~lP reduction of C" f . n .ulbng ln ir;crc..,sr'd production p<'r cnp1t·c output.''

I-TL' ha::; · nid that f'O~ts Inu:::t cornc dcnvn. Fancy the chct~k of this rn_lll coining· out to ,'<l6trrli8, and ~.a:vj1ng,. that! lie has been ncro tL l'f,111P·~·ratn~·-lY il~\v days only, and yet h.,~ arrngatt:d t'o hi1n"elf th" right nf saying tc th, 'l1n'J·.urcrs of .Au::..trab "'\ that co~ts IHW-it i~ nYn. and th~~t the....- n1u~t ((sack'' IT1C'H dc-fintl~! \)Thy? .Beca:llr;·~ h:_ j~ Ycpresentin; the monoy powc:r; and our 1--r~ nlil'r a I Hi Treasurer aer,•pt -v,.·b:tt he sa.~ s 1

Supply. 633

S~ ... Otto Ni0n1C"·vcr :is wrong; and I am going r;~ cmnpare th0 coi3ts of other countries of 1hc world, including Britain, in order to ::-how that Brita.in is in a worse position than wo arc, and a1~o to flhow that Sir Otto ~icmPyer :is not right. Sjr Otto Niemeyer is 11{)t \YOrrying hirJ:;;elf about Britain or Austl alia; h.-. is sin1pl~ worrying- about the money nmc Cl' o£ the -.. orld. He has come ou.t to ~\ustrulia at the iLstigution of that power tD srrv that we must "sack" men and reduce \Y~gPs, and ~n bring- the living- conditions of ~\u~tra1ia down to the level of coolies.

The 'I'Hr.AS1'RER: ).io -you arc s:tying that.

·.vir. PEASE: If Sir Otto Niemeyer and his f\nanrial people had thl'ir \Y>ty, they would cr0 tlut Queensland was flooded with coolie labour, and they would not c~re what happened to the people of Austraha.

~lr. ::'\DDIO: That is a scurrilous statement.

J\1 r. PEASE : !\ cvertheless, it is true. I '' unt to compare the co5ts of other countries ,.[ the world with the costs of Australia. Th t is a fair cDmparison to make. and I do ,., in order to prove that Sir Otto · Niemeyer !-.;wrong.

J\h. J\lAHEH: Yon are a bright one to prove that, he is wrong. (Interjections.)

J\Ir. PEASE : The International Labour Bureau of Geneva has compiled the follpwing set of figures dealing with wage levels, based on Great Britain as 100, in the CQuntrie• ::-ho\VTI :-

" United States 197 Canada. 168 Austl'alia 152 Sweden 115 Denmark 112 Holland 89 ticrmanv 77 8lo1. akiR 77 Poland 68 France 59 \u>tria 53 Italv 51 Spain 49"

To what love] ha Ye we to come down?

The Loader of the Opposition made 11. ,. ont!erful speech in connection with the establishment of a Bureau of Economics and Statistics in Queensland-one of the best

sneeches I have ever listened to [3.30 p.m.] i~ this House. As the hon.

member asked on that occa~ion, to \vhat level have we to con1A dovvn? I ask hon. members : If the Premier and Treasurer are to accept the advice of .:\iernevcr, to \vhat level are we to come down ·:' Ar .. l .ve to come dowJC>o to the level of Gc·rmany. with a wage level of 77? And !war in mind that thoro wore over 3,QOO,QOO per,on., unemployed in Germany last April! :\o-::'\icmeyer is wrong. Anyone who values his countr)' and has a pride in his country ~honld not join in ,,,·ith this wage-l'"ed-u.ction 'chonH'. which f>tch have prm·ocl to be absolutely wrong.

Tf the rrn~asnrt'l' i.s going to COnlply with the· dcr.cancls of Nierncyer, to what level ha ·e ' A to come down? Despite the cheap :--.neers of hon. n1ernberR opposite, I have 1itrurcs ,,.hich prove that I ntn right. A ,;JJrV<lY m ' reccntlv made of the whole of ik' ,;ations of th~ worlcl with respect to ,-;c·< lth a1·cragec, whic.h, after all, are what count ho't if you are examining the position of a country. That survey disclosed that

Mr. Pease.]

Supply. [ ASSK\lBL Y.] Supply.

A_nletica \Vas fir::.L on the list, Canada second, Australia third, Now Zealand fourth, and Great Britain fifth. ·when you compare the wage level of thbo countric', you find that America, which has the best wealth average, has the highest wage; Canada takes second nlace, and Australia third place. \V hat ha vc hon. members opposite to say to those com· parisons, which are gleaned from world rrnthoritics? It is tragedc for any Govern· mont, be it State or Federal, that will not stand up for the present wage standard. Any Gm·etnrnrmt "·hich does anything leso than that is going to bring disaster on its countr~,T; and that is why I say that it is painful for U· to reflect that the Premier of Queensland should run away and take a holiday when discu•,.,ions such as this should !JC· tal{ing place.

Mr. 1JAHEH: \~Y]ICrc are you going to get the 1noney from:

Mr. PEASE: \vi!! tell the hon. member. I.~et me en1phasi_ IJ that the Government's deflation polic: Js \Hong. Does the Trea· ~urer not know that in Brisbane business men arc beginning to feel this depression every week?

:Vlr. M.niER : E ,·eryono is feeling it.

1\ir. PEASE: What is going to happen when the Government continue to aggrayate the position? Tho Prernier runs away; and yet he told the press that the Budget would 1mve to be reduced bv another million and a-half. Parliament is the place where he should tell us that; and he should also tell ns why. I say the hon. gentleman is wrong. In common with e\'et'Y hon. member on this side of the House. I" warned the Treasurer last sdsion that the deflation policy of the ,Government was "'\Vrong. '\Ve were laughed .at; but hen. members opposite, after a year in office, must realise the position. The 'l'rpasurer no doubt thought that he was right, judging b:, his remarks when he stated that he anticipated a smaller deficit than actually resulted. After one year of office tho Go\·ernmcnt find themselw·- with a huge deficit, and eYidontly they propose to con· tinue on their suicidal policy.

The SECRETARY FOR LABOITR IXD INDcRTRY : What would you do?

Mr. PEASE: v\'e would do a lot better than the GoYernment have done if only we VFero given a chance. If we cornpare the ''age index figure of 77 for Germany with the figure of 152 for Australia, we find that Germany has only one·half the effective wag" of Australia. Germanv has inc1·eased her hours and rcdnc,··d her wag-es. The wage stJndard is the lowest that Germany has had for year.:;, ancL uncrnployrnent in th8:t country i' growing. It is O\'Cr 3,0W,OOO to-day.

Sir Otto Nicrneycr j beating the joss for the Tories of Australia, and, if they do as h tells them. the Premier and Treacurer arc going to bring Queensland down to Gerrnany's 1C'vcl. I-To\V' n1uch better off shall we he if they rtducc \\~agC';;;; in Que~_nslalld? Our L:.l~ling ccono1nists talk about 10~. 3. day for singlE-~ m0n and 12s. a day for tnnrried 1ncn r IIoYv n1uch bctt,"r off are we goiug to h- whcu CY( ry other 11ation is doing tho s rne ~ If i.hc Gov _rnn1cnt rrcluco \\·ages

!cYel of th0s0 in Ge'·man,·. which half OLU' standard. how mu~h better

ofl' than GermaLy are v:.-c· gojng to be? {~ern1any, ·with it~ lartc factories. is right again_ t tht• consun1ing nations of Europe.

[ Jfr. Pease.

Gcrn1anv is nnwh better off than we arc because ~j t takes five weeks for our productc; to get to Europe. Yet Germany has reduced her wage ·"Landards and i11creased hP.r hours! Shr' has practically no control of labour. Labour can be gathered in e\·et·y•vhere. Ye; Germany has 3,000,000 unemployed, and the po-oition is getting worse month by month 1

=--:ow take Italy. Italy is under a dictator. There is no Government in Italy. ·what happened in Italy. whose "age standard is only ono· third of that of Australia? To·day there arc over 500,000 unemployed. \Vhat is happening in Japan? There is no wageetandarcl in J'apan, and no limitation of hours. Child labour is employed there. Yet the Prime :Minister of .Japan issued a statement the other dav that unemploy· mont in .T a pan is unprecedented ! The IVIinistPr for Finance in Japan is evidently imbued with similar ideas to those of our ow11 Trpnsur0r. IIo says. "In this crisis vy·c- n1u<;t, reduce '' agos." If they reduce wag-e.. from the standard the,, are to-clay, tht~ poor, unfortunate people ,rill get nothing· at all.

The point I want to make is that the lowest wage country in the world is saying. "Our onlv salv,,.tion is to reduce wages." Surelv the.rc must be some limit, and surely to goodness hon. members sitting behind the Government wlw have any financial lnwwl,·-dgc must realise that .Japan ?annat set h0r bouse in order at present w1th no restri~tions and no unions! 'The capitalists havf' an •· open go" in Japan, and what. ~1as happened? .T a pan is in the worst condJtwn it was ever in. So I say that the pohcy of the GoYernmont in Queensland is suicidal.

Now t<tke India. I was astounded to see the other day the Indian Chamber of Com· merco pleaclino· with the Jute Growers' Asso· ciation of India to get back to a higher wege standard and reduced hours. The .Jute As.sociation had increased the houn in their jute factories to sixty a week.

:Yir. l\L\HER: Where did you see that? I challenge you to produce the evidence.

:\1r. PEASE: I accept the hon. member's challr·ng-c, and I \Yill lay the statem~nt ?" the table of the House. India, With Its coolie labour, has probably the lowest w.age stand;rd in the world. It has unlimited labollr, no unions, and no trammels. whatever on the capitalists. The capitalist can do juot what he likes, and because the jute people bave increased hours and reduced ,,-,rres thev have dostrovecl the commerce of I~Jia 1 an~d -the charnbcr of rommcrcc B

asking them to incrr'lSC the wages of the people and to give them shorter hours.

Take •nrvcv that has bce11 made of the I do. not care where you go. The prc,cni l're;idcnt of the United 1'\ta.te, of An1crica 111ade a \vorld surve~ regarding these 1nat+-' :t~s before he ''as President. Ho rcpOJ·tcd to the American Senate that he thought the• duty of America v,-as to keep \Ya ~·es on high le\ :.;ls and reduce tl~o hou!'ti of , ark fo,· ~he jlcoplc. EYer:c ihmker m the \vorld \~:ho has gone into this .math::r must ('Or!lc to the conclu.s.ion that 1n th1s prc<;ent cri~}s the ·worst ~hin~ to do is lwn. n1en1Lers opposite have doLe: ·orst thing to do is tv accept t.hc- dil this nutn-Xien1CJ er-from

'candalous to think that out to consult with the

Govcrnrncnt has now the


right to dichte to all the Premiers and Treasurers of the Australian States and tell th~m that costs must come down.

Mr. MAHER: He did not dictate.

Mr. PEASE: Ho did dictate-the Treasurer kuows he said it-and the hon, member for Rosewood is not speaking the truth if he says that. Sir Otto ~iemeyer s,tys, "The onl:,· solution is to reduce your costs." I-Ie caused them to get the fear complex; aml I 'vant to destroy th .. t fear complex. I run not standing hero representing Labour interests alone. l am rcprc cnting the people of QuPcn,,land. and 'lilY 0"\Yll constituencyI am rcprAsenting the sugar industry. Are hon. members opposite going to stand for a lo\vc-r pric~, for our ~ugar, butter, and wheat 1 How on cnrth can they reconcile their present po:>ition with their assertions iil the past? Flow can any n1an representing the primal'y producers sit quietly behind the Government and allow them to go on with their deflating- policy and their reduction of the purchasing power of the people of the State 1 How can hon. members opposite export our o\vn industries to go ahcud? How cv~n I, representing the gr0at sugar inter("3ts. do anything else but point out that hem. ITlCinb:•rs opposite arc going the ''Tong \vay? They are going to be responsibln for whatever happens. Ho\v c-,n we maintain our present standard in th~ sugar industry if hon. members oppo·"'ite further reduce the wages of the people of Queensland and put more men cut of "·ork '! There is this year a les> consumption of sugar by the people of Australia. Do hon. members opposite realise that? Do thev know that we have less consumption of "'sngar per head of the people of Au.,tralia than before; and sug-ar is ono of the commodities which is most used in every household? Owing to the wage reduction stunt in Australia, there has been no increase in the consumption of sugar, despite the fact that the population has increased. Last year tlw Colonial Sugar Rcfming Company in its balance-sheet pointed out that there was the greatest consumption of syrup in the history of the company. \Yhy' was that? The jam people are complaining that they are not selling jam. \Vhy is that? It i-; because people haYe no money to buv jam. A 2-lb. tin of syrup is the cheapest commodity that people cm buy. The r<'sult is " decrease in the amount of sugar used and an inereased consumption of syrup. Are hon.

·members opposite going to bring the people of Queensland and Australia down to a lower level eYen than that' I was recently in a grocer's :;hop in Cairns, '''·hen rr nutn came in and eaid, "I want a lb. of 1\_foore's basic butter." The g1·ocer said, " \Yhat is that?" The tnan said, "Don)t you know what J\Ioorc's bnsic butter is'?" The storekeeper ~aid. " No~:" and the n1an "aid, "I \Yant :t lb of dripping." (Opposition laughter.) The GoYet'Jmwnt arL fm·cing the people of Queensland to buv :Yloore's basic butter. I want hon. mcmb~ r' opposite to rr alise what they

re doing to Queensland. A GOI"RX:IfEXT ::\InJBER: \Vhv repeat the

thing? V

~)fr. PE \SE: If I ran keep en repeating th thing until I can gt·L hon. mc1nbers

1 J n1Pnr1 i lw error c,f th_,ir 'vayr::. do bJ. Firs of all, tllf~ Go\·crnlnent

arC' cau:slug uncnlplo:-mr>nt. in QueUiS-land tLan f'Ycr w<u h::-forQ; ~e~.:ondly. t..hry haY\ n:~dncf'cl the ~tandard of living of the pcop!t' of Queensland to a s:n·up and drippin?· diet. Are hon. members opposite

not satisfied with that? Do they say to the people, '·You are not going to have even your drippmg and your syrup?" How much lower c.tn ''e get? Leaving the political aspect out altogether, no matter what side of the House rm·rnbers are on, hon. members opposite must realise that, if they further deflate the people, if they put more men out of work, if they put 1,200 railwaymen out of "-"· ork, if thoy keep on decreasing the purchasing power of the people, they will not be able to buy dripping or syrup. How much lower can .they get 'I I want to show that Sir Otto J\i"iemeycr is wrong by quoting from his mYn journal, the London "Times.''

Strangely enough, in the issue of the "Courier" whi:·h printed the article I am speaking of stating that Sir Otto Niemeyer was dictating to Australia, I find this cablegram-

" The umatisfactory trade position of the united King-dom and the great Yolume of unemployment was discuseed in the 'Times' of 12th July."

That is what the London "Times" had to say, and that is "·by I s"y that Sir Otto Kieme'·cr cannot tell us what to do-because he can.not tell Britain what to do. The same articlt~ go(•s on to say-

" The real trouble in t.he United Kingdom is that the cost of production and the standard or cost of living are too high."

\Yhat do hon. members opposite think of that·: Sir Otto ::';iemever leav~s the United Kingdom and comes over here to dictate to us. and, after a survey of the position, he savs that the cost of living is too high. -Y('t '~'P haYc the London "Times," in the very city from which he has come, saying thcct the cost of wages is too high in England-

" The co>t of production and the standard or cost of living are too high, relatively to ihosc current abroad.

" A chaugc in fiscal policy is neces::;ary in ord('r io restore prosperity."

I particularly want the Treasurer to listen to this, because I assume that the London ''Times" has a good deal of weight with the business people. It reflects the opinion of businesJ people in the British Empire we hear so much about on the other side. This is the way in which it sums up thr position-

" \Ve must protect our trade union ra.tes of w .1ges and conditions of worrl: from the cheaper wages and lower conditions abroad."

That is what the leading paper in the very city from which t.his fmancial ma.gnate comes has told the people of England. It means that they in England must not allow their ,, J .. vcs to con1o clo\vn and thoy must not dcffate their workers any more. That is the message from the heart of the Empire itself, fron1 which thjs great :\ie1ncyer-thts financial mouthpic" e of the grc~t banks and financial institutions-hails. He is here to tr-ll U:5 th, t 'VC rnust br1ng dov;·n our costs, v,-hcn in hjs O"\Vll town the " 1I'irncB" says, "You r1nst not interforo ,·ith our wages a-'·d conditions of lahonr." Arc we to bear .11 tk .c:acrificc' Did not Anstmlia bear enough s'1crificc in the war?

A GOVERNo1EXT MEMBER : \Vhat sacrifice did you bear?

I\Jr. PE.\SE: I did more ihan the hon. member. Ho was probably ,,-,sting his timo v:aiting to get to the froui,. I did tnore~-

Mr. Pease.]

636 S1tpply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

I satisfied my own conscience. This great n1oncy power lent us 1noney ~ and Brita!n funded her debt to America. But what d1J sne do to us? Has Australia failed to pay anything? vVc have not even got a reduction in intcrc!,t. Yet thjs rnoney power cmncs along, and tells us ·we rnust further redu~o the conditions of our people! I say agam that, if C\~cr there was a time wlwn v.c \Vantcd a Prcnlier and a, rrrE'asurcr \Viih backbone to go and tell rwople more par~ ticu1arl>- \Vhat Quccnsla~d has done. now is the timf. \Ye gasc Bntain our w,JoL our wheat, our miner~ls, our sugar at ]rnv price:::. Thcv were taken over there; and thi~ great 1norley pO'>', er that thi ,, ~ ic:::ncycr is reprc-· senting took the wholt~ of our wool and our ''"heat, ancl profit.ee~·ed with it. It is on record that the wool and the wheat. that we sent Dvcr to Britain to help in the war-~ wool and wlwat which we sent over at low prices-was allowed to get into the hands of profiteers, who made millions out of it, and who now tdl us that we have clone noth~ ing. Goodness me, what more dD they want'!

Again, I am sorry that the Premier is not in hio place in t.hc House, bccauec I want to refer to a matter in which he certainly has not been fair. I say that not only has he been unfair to the House and to cvcrv mc1nber of it, no mat:--:r which side he sit~s on, but he has alsD tried to introduce the politic~! issue into the situation. In the statement he gave to the press when he returned~-a statement which was given to only a section of the press-I am referring now to his statement of the 25th August-he said-

" :Mr. Scullin was the only person at the conference who did not appear to realise the gravity of the situation."

DDes the 'l'!·casurer endorse that statement of the Premier?

The TREASURER: Of course I do.

Mr. PEASE: That is exactlv what I wanted the hon. gentleman to s'ay. It io the first time he has answered a straight question. At last I have been able to get a straight answer from: the Treasurer.

Ji1r. Por.LOCK: You arc the onlv man whD ever did. ~

Mr. PEASE: T 11en I am proud Df the fact. This statemt>nt appeared in the Sydney press-

" I am anxious that it should be known i'he"t each Commonwealth wlinistcr realised to the full the gravity Df the situ a~ tion, and any sugg0stion that State 1Iinistcrs \vcre alone in that realisation is hH.rdl~l f~\ir to tbc CorunlOl1\YC·al~h rcprcsent'a tiv<''3. ''

Vilw said that'' \\'hY. Nfr. Stnens. rlw Treasurer of ~·.Jt~Y~ South' \Valt -~. r\ppnrcittly he was rnuro l1oncmrr~ bl· than 0ithr•r our own Trca:-urcr or our <Jw_;_l PrcrniC'r. In snito of the foct that ho die! not bclo1 ~ to th~ same politic~! pat·t_v as tho.-o who had been unfairly crit'ici~C'J, he ~pol{c tho truth in connection with the lil ·ttcr. He apprc i0.tcd the fact that ::!.Ir. Srulli:n. the Prj;:ne ll!.ini~tcr o£ i\ustral1a, ::iid r0ali:.::c t~F-' gra.Yit:v of th"' situation nnd w ~' t ckli"g the problem. He realised t'hat the J'rimc '.finistcr understood what wrs l1CC'f'"<;;.ar)• to be done, and so he defended him. :'\Ir. Sttcv"ns is an honourable Treasurer, which is probably more than I can sav of our own Treasurer. ~

Before I CDncludc I shall prove that there is a financial boycott against Australia. The

[Mr. Pease.

London "Times,. has point0d ont ihat Great Britain Inust not allow \Vagf~~ 1 o C'O!llO down any lo\YCT in that. coun1.r~·, [lnd Jw~ pointed out tha.t i 110 countr;v i;~ inn parlnu8 condition. The London '' FinalJrirtl ~e\Y3 ., hi:tH undertaken to gin' nd,-ice to pruspc--::1jyc jnvestors in Gr..nt Britain; and I \Yallt to dra\v the ath•ntion of rhc 'l\'P_ -urcr to e0rl.nin 1natters tu ~hov,- what i~ goi11g on in rP1ntion to Au~tralia. The LOntlo.J "Financial Xcv\-s" l"t'~ t1tnn!:>nd ~_::; n fi~_-:-Ll for profhahle invest~ H'llt Cf~untr1c'.s i11 the following ordc'r:-

~~~'gent ine C·anaJn. s~nl1 h -\ fl·ic·a Chili :\"'"\ Zca Jrrr,d Brazil Franee Sweden rnikd States of America Dcnrr1ark ltaly Gern1any.

'Ihat' i:. an lndic-ltion lo the 1noney powerthe mP;wv Jl•ws of Grc>at Britain. Australia i~ not cY'en nl"ntioned. TD-day we have a financial n~prc~:entative representing thtJ fina.nci>tl intcrcots of the "·orld dictating to .~\ustr:tlia what this count'rv shall do. \Ve ha no a ,; !inite boycott against Australia on thP part of fiuancial interests on the other 'ide of the world, practically telling the inYc.·tDrs of rhat part of the world, "YDu arc not to inYL~st your money in Australia."

As further proof of the financial boycott, we ncrd onlv witness the attack upon the Australian P'rime Minister bv the financial papers of the old world. Thttt attack has !wen launched because Mr. Scullin will nDt do this or will not do that. The latest attack \Yas in r0spcct of 1t few Treasury bills falling dne in Great Britain at the present time. A fl'W TrNlsury bills, amounting to £5,000,000! Why, the Labour Government of Queensland bcqueatlwd to the present Government £5.000.00') to be spent for the benefit of Q11ecnsland ; but they spent it in the other States.

Immc·diatcly following upon the CDnference i•1 Yl:elbourne, which was attended by the great and k~rned finai1cial experts the Dther day. the LondDn press cDmplained that Australia was not providing for these maturing Treasury bills. Mr. Lyons. the Acting T:reac,urcr of the Commonwealth, signed all the nee ,sary papers and completed the work in connect-ion Y,"ith these bills within an hour of wo,·d b0ing recPiYed from the Commonwealth fluthorit.: :s jn Englarr1. Tn face Gf that, the finnncial papers haYo emnnlaincd that there "''ns undue dclav in connection \':ith the rnattcr. A paltry '£5,000,000 ' It is no wonder that Jiir. FPnton, the Acting Prime ~Minister of "\u,tJ "lio, pointed out that we haJ paici

in juterest 1_'o Great Britain, and ,,,,as no need to becon1e alarmed

Tn :t~ury bill~ runounting to ThP London financial papers

ont that Australia, was not in a, posiprnvidP for this p .. ltry surn; but ~1r.

Lyons wns nbL• to eomplcto oil the work \',"ithjn an ho:.te of sucul"ing the nccc',~~nry papers.

~Tr. KEL~O: 't"'"t t vou srrv that thf•re jg a fi·_l ·,ucj:d b<Jyr·ott. v\_-,-ou flr--; contradicting your.~c·lf.

~\Tr. PEASE: Tbcrc is a financia,l boycott.

The SPEAKER: Order !

Supply. [:27 AuausT.] Supply. 637

Mr. PEASE: I will tell you why. This money is being eonverted because the Premiers of the various States have induced the trading banks of Australia to concentrate their credits in England. Evidently "Mr. Scu!lin has got a little more backbone than some of our State Treasurers. He c.1lled a conference of these banks, and at last has got them to reali··e the situation. What has happened is this: The banks of Australia n re now concentrating their credits in England, which they should have done long a<;o. The trading banks should have awakPncd to the situation a year ago. \Vh~n the late Queensland Labour Government found it ncc,'ssar:y to conserve their funds in Queensland, the banks of Au,tralia should haYe eonnncuced to con.serve their funds. i\lr. Scullin and the Commonwealth Governincnt ha Ye ( ·:idt•ntly brought prc.:sure to ~Jcar 011 the bauk:-; oi _Australia to conc...:ntrato tht>1r credits in En~land.

r.-rr. E::r:...so: Y-.-ou arc talkin~': ro"--ab•olutc rot.

:1Ir. PEASE: That is \Yhv these Treasun bond~ a H~ convcrtoc( T \Yarn hm;, 1ucn1bor~ t~ ;j ckntly

bc·hiuJ the GoverurnonLis no use telling the Trea

intluellCC:::. ~tt \York at tho I complain that the Premier

lTI\' coT.,stitnenc·<' and e'. crv other In QuC'Cns]ai~d lll03t disgrace

fully b:: not bring in his pl<:>cc in ParliaJn€'nt to-da v I wonlc~ contrast his attitude with the aft'ituJc of Mr. Fenton. lhe Sccrctan: for Trade and Cust,orns, \~ho was sent on:-\·~ea~ to discuss the di::::1.rrr1anH'nt quc~iioa with the reprt'scntati.-cs of the natio11s of the world. Immediately he returned, hefore giYi:ng out any statement to the pl'C'1,S-, he ' ood up in his place in the Commonwealth Parliament and told the rcpresentati.-es of the people exactly what had taken piar<' 011 a greater and more mon1entou:-: quc.:.1 ion than t.he ono now facing_ .. \ ustra.lia, but, when our Trea~urer rf!turned f_rorn a n1eoting of the Loan Council, he saJC!, '' I cannot tell you any1 hing about the Loan Council."

The TREASrllER : That is not true.

Mr. PEASE : The hon. gentleman was challenged to produce the minutes of tho Loan Council, but he Raid they were confi-dential. ·

Mr. POLLOCK: And th0 Premier told us all about it.

:\1r. PEASE: These minutes were confidential to a tragic Treasurer. who blundered into a £750,000 dPHcit. a' against the interests of s0ventv-one other mmnbers of the House. \Ye c·an contrast the attitude of Mr. Fenton with that of our Premier, \vho. on returning fro1n thL' conference with Sir Otto Xienwycr, goes ft\Yay to open a countr;· shm.-. :VIr. Fcnton die! exactlv what s'boulcl have been clone. The Prcmic'r ohould have made a statement under privilege or in rt!ly other way on Tuesday last, and taken the whole House int·o his confidence on the present stat0 of affairs. instead of treating us in this chmlish way.· That is Ollr gtlDYUllCC'.

The Premier has not onlv belittled evcrv hon. member in this House,· but he has als~ belittled the whole of Queensland, because we are the representatives of the people. and this is the place where he should have told us what is going on. This financial busi

.ness is going to grow like a nightmare, and

the whole of Queensland is going to suffer. You might travel throughout the whole of Queensland in order to see what is going to happen when thousands of men now eHgaged in the sugar industry are thrown apon the labour market. If ever there was a· time when the State should be guided by co1n1non sense, it is now, for the more tho GoYf~rnrnent reduce vvages and the standard of Ji.-ing, and the more unemployment that is created, the greater the misery they \vill ht·ing about. If they do so, they will bring ttbout a disaster unparalleled in the history of Queensland to those unfortnnate people who baYe to sub1nit to such a tragic Trea~ ·i.HCr and Governrnent.

}Ir. BRASSI"\GTON (lJulonne): During the dob"tc on the Address in Rc'ply I fore· t J~t a fnrther att n1pt to reduce the wages of the 1nen engaged in the p:'::;toral industry. -~\iy fol'C'c-;.,st 1Ht,S /)cell ju,,tified, for only a fc"· dan Mr. Coldham. representing rhc ~\- ociation. rrH!.dC' applic1tiou to Jndu trial Court for a furthu· reduc-tio:!. of anlOH:It.ing to approxin1ately .... :=~ lJt>f

~\J" ~ p.nJ.J

Tlu,~ Cn \in \X OF j'(JJ (J'J/fll}(t)

(J\Ir. Rot crtfl, the Spcukcr in the

:\lr. BR.\SSI~GTO~: I desiro to take l his opportun]t~" of dra\~ ing the attention o£ tlF~ pt·n;-J1e of Qurf'nsland to two n1atters. Th<' fir5~ _i~ the unfairne:s and futility of fnrther wng'c reduction in the pastoral in~ lln~trv. and the ~<·cond i::; the urgent neces~ :>;ity ~of \.Yoolbrokers, b., nkor8, and others making sncriflu-~s in this direction. In that connection it is worthv of note that the ~~·ercbttT of the G-razie'rs' As::lOCiation, l\lr. C'oldharir. stn'nuously opposes any attempt to rnake thf' \.YOolbrokcrs, bankers, nnd others bear their fair share of the sacrifice. vVe have on]v to r0alise that the various v;oolbrokf'rs ~lnd banking con1panics. throughout not on! v Qnecn-.lancl but Australia, are controlled ·by a powerful group of pastoralists

ho ar'' shardroldf'rs in those companies to know that. no·.,- that a sacrificp has to be maJe, the as~ociatlon has no desire to rnake the woolhrokers and bankers bear their fair ,),arc of the .. aerifice.

I propo:'P to offer some :-:.ugg'2sijons this aftPrnomr. It is abOL;t time that the pastoralist.< ancl the UO\·ernment of this State realioed that the probl0m confronting 1 he pastoral industry cannot be solved by a fuJ'thpr reduction in wages; and I wi!'h to add that C('rtain clull'gcs will havfl to be reduced. The charges I refer to are woollJrolu,rs' charge::::-, insurance charges, shippjng charges. inter0~t rharge~. and, last but not lcaet, the abolition of a very unfair prin ciplc that now operates-draftage. I pro· pose to deal \Vith those rhargn in detail to show how much could be saved to the naf'ltoral indnstrv if a reduction ·were made in those directions. If the pastoralists had ihc courag-t~ r.o organise along sound, pro~ g-resei1·e lrnes to tackle this problem, they ,~·ould rernove frorn the back of the pastoral industry a large number of parasites which it curies at the present time. The facts-and they are formidable-which I shrtll quote will show clearly that the sacrifice necessary on account of the depres· sion in the pastoralist industry could be bomQ by other than the · ,·orkers. For t'xamp!e, the commission charges by woolbrokers

Mr. Brassington.]

638 Supply, [ASSEMBLY.] Supp<'!J·

amount to L\: per cent. on lots valued at over £500. In addition to that, there is a charge levied for receiving, weighing, and handling of v ool, warehousing, etc. This charge amounts to ~d. per lb. on all wool produced. Bringing these figures down to a sound basis, we find that on a wool produc· tion of £9,700,000 for Queensland for the 3·car 1928-29 the share of the woolbrokers amounted to--

£ Commission charges at H per

cont. 121,714 VVarehouse charges at ~d. per

lb. 141,775

Total £263,489

For the past six years the total amount taken out of the pastoral industry by the woolbrokers alone reaches the enormous figure of approximately £1,391,000. That suggests that, if the graziers were patriotic and were interested in their own affairs. they could at least have organised their own wool-selling organisation so that the bulk of that money would have been saved to the industry, and would not have gone i!l!o the pockets of those outside the industry.

. Another very important charge on the mdustry is that relating to insurance. VV arehouse insurance on wool to-day ~mounts to !, per cent. ; and on the clip for the 1928-29 season the a,mount paid in msurance was £16,229. That is another Item that could be reduced for the benefit of the pastoral industry. \Vhcn I put this argument forth to-dav I know that considcra,ble opposition ·will bo forthcoming from those who aro interested in the industry in relation to the selling of wool and thereby making profits out or' that business. But we have to realise the"t, although wool pnccs have fallen con6idorably during the last twelve or fifteen months, the profits made by the wool broker3 are practicallv the same, a,nd similar dividends are bein;;. paid this year as were paid in previOl{;; years.

In that connection I propose to discuss for a moment or two tho balance-sheet of the Queensland Primary Producer~· Co-operative .'bsocratwn, and show t,bat big profits arc bemg _made by the wool brok0rs out of the wool mdustry. This a,•csociation is supposed to be a co-operative association and tberefore, is not in the busim-c-; for th~ pur: pose of 111aking profits. The figures I shall submit suggest that the profits made by this company are the lowest profits posaiblc, and that the profits made by other companies muet be out of all reasonable proportion. For t.hc year 1929 the Queensland Primary Producers' Co-operative Ascociation naid a di,-idend of 8 per cent. on 211.000 'shares. A di,-idend of. 8 per cent. on 211,000 ccharcs t·epreccents a big sum of money. In addition to that, a sum of £17,809 hao been carried fon,yard and transferred to rcscrYes. This example suggests that big profits are being madf' by the wool brokers out of the pastoral" m~ustry_, and. that they can bear a sacrrnce 111 tlns perrod of depression.

Let :ne take the balance-sheet of Dalgety and Company, L;mrtcd, a vcr,,· prominent woo!brokmg firm m Australia. For the vear 1929 this company made a net profit ~f £442,000, and paid dividends amounting to 17 per cent. on the capital invested. Yet hon. members opposite and the graziers them-

[ Mr. Brassington.

selves SfLY that only the workers must rnake'" sacrifice in this period of depression.

I propose to discuss a further unponaut n1attcr, and one that has a. big bearing on the pastoral industry, and that is the system kno\Yll a~ " draftage." It is a Yery old s:; ,ctem that has boon in operation since the trade in wool began between Australia and England. The system briefly is this: For every 112 lb. of wool sold the buyer is allowed 1 lb. of wool extra, meaning that for every 113 lb. of wool the seller is only 1 aiel for 112 lb., and the buyer is entitled to 1 lb. of wool free. This in itself is a vcn· big thing, and something should be done to, wipe out thi·s unfair levy on the pastoral industry. For 1929 tho draftage allowance on the Queensland clip alone amounted toe 1,020,000 lb. The •,coured allowance amounted to 104,299 lb. At an average price of 17.17d. per lb. for greasy wool, no less tha,n £73,000 was lost to the pastoral industry last year by the draftagc on greasy wool, and at an average price of 31.14cl. for scoured wool, the loss was £13,500 on scoured wool, representing approximately £86,500 for draftage a,llowances on last year's Queensland wool clip. That is a direct loss to the industry, and I sug·g<>st that the Government and the grower should get together with a view to eradicating that system and saving that amount of money to the industry.

I come to another very important itemshipping charge'. I think it is necessarv that we should discuss these features affectin;;. the pastoral industry, because it is one of the main industries of the State. There ha& been a demand that the workers should make fnrth0r sacrifice ,o;: but no mention is made of the enormous eh a rge levied on the transportati\'m of the wool dip overseas by the shipping combine trading between Australia and other countries at the present tin1e. In order to r0alise \\hat an cnonnous charge is really made on our wool dip, we have only to consider the iigures. In 1914 the freight on \vool was ~d. pN lb. for greasy and ~d. per lb. scoured. In 1923 that charge had been increased to l;l:d. per lb. greasy and Hd. per lb. scoured. For the period between 1914 and 1923 the increase in freight rates amounted to £1,247,Go4; and it was estimated in 1922 that, if a reduction of ;\d. per lb. on greasy wool could be brought about. it would represent a saving in freight of £607,000 to the industrv in Australia. The position is !he same to-clay as it was in

. 1922; and, if those who are clamouring so loudly for a further wage reduction realised the necessity for reducing the shipping charges, thoro is plenty of opportunity for them to go further. I suggest that point to the secretarv of the United Graziers' Associatcion. Let them get busy and agitate for a r, duction of the brokers' charge , for 'fho abolition of draftage, for a redw tion in insurance ratec,, and, last but not least. for a n.,duction in shipping charges.

I come now to the most important feature whi<>h concerns the pastoral industrv. In thHc times of d0prcssion we arc told· of the m ccssity of making further sacrifice; but no one raisec, the crY of the ncccssitv for bankers forgoing a portion of their interest in so far as it i•c levied on the pastoral industry. The interest charges on the pastoral industry roprc,ont a considerable burden, and those charges are worthy of consideration with a view to substantial reduction. To ma.ke the position clear, let me say that the maje>rity of small graziers and quite a number of large

Supply. [27 Ac;GUS",'.] Supply. 639

graziers in the mdustrv to.day arc financially involved with their brokers and banks-so much so that in this period of depression they are finding the interest quite a, heavy load to carry. In prosperous seasons when conditions are good and prices high, the interest burden can be comfortably borne; but now that this depression has overtaken us the pastoral industry is finding the interest Joad very heavy.

I need only submit the following illustra· tion to enable hon. members to realise what an important part interest charges play in the industry. I know a man who has an area of land carrying 3,000 sheep. In order to develop that land this man raised a loan of £2000 at 6 per cent. interest, the interest payable amounting to £120 each year, which is a charge on the production from 3,000 sheep.

In order that hon. members may grasp my argument more clearly, let me say that the interest charges in this case amount to almost the same as the wages-the cost of removing that wool from the sheep's backs. Take the cost of wages for shearing 3,000 sheep under the old award, before wages were reduced-

Shearing vVages, 3 men for 3 weeks

£ s. d. 67 10 0 63 0 0

£130 10 0 or a little more than the amount paid in interest. If it is necessary to reduce wages in the industry, it is necessary to reduce interect charge'. To substantiate that point, let me quote an article which appeared in the " Courier " of 26th August of this year, in w·hich a Central district grazier points out that the interest charge on practically every E:. lector and grazier throughout Queensland amounts to approximately ls. 6d. per she~p.

Mr. KIRWA~: Thev do not want to lower wages but lower interest.

Mr. BRASSI:'\GTON: That is the point I want to make. Interest charges must come down. Let us take this statement for what it is worth. It means that, with 18,382.153 sheep in Queensland in 1928-29, the inteTest charge on the pastoral industry amounted to £1,378.661. The argument may be advanced that all the graziers are not paying interest on eyory sheep, so, for the sake of argument, let us halve the number. That means that, on the basis of ls. 6d. on half the sheep in Queensland, the interest wonld amount to £689,330 a, year. That is a considerable figure. There is something tlat the wage·reducers can tackle with effectiveness. There is the opportunity for the secrc,tary of the Graziers' Association and hon. members opposite and wage-reducers generally to bring about a reduction in production costs. I, for one, desire to sec some effort on the pa.rt of the,,e people to make th~se best able to bear the burden take their proper share of it. Recently the Indmtria I C'-:mrt reduced wages by a,pproxi· matoly 10 per cent. all round, but no attempt was made to reduce the charges of the wool· brokers ""nd others. I mak<> the point that before further >e ago reductions are sought these people should come forward and bear their share of the burden.

The Government, in their fondness for r0ducing w>tges at every opportunity, do not show any inclination to attack their

rich and powerful friends. It is true that since this agitation has been going on one member of the Government, the Secretary for Railwavs, has said that interest charges must come' down. He is reported in the "Courier " of 21st February, 1930, as having said that the Cabinet had agreed with his view that selling charges and other overhead charges should be reduced, and that, should this be brought about, a reduction in railway freights would result. The hon. member suggested that the Government were going to take action, but th.ey have takc;n absolutelv none. 'l'hev sold out to thmr masters-'the powerful p'astoralists-by reducing freights, but thev have allowed these charges to go untouched.

I now call to mv aid the "Brisbane Courier." I take not~ce of what that paper has to sa v, because hon. members opposite are very fond of reading it and of holding it up '" an example to be followed. In its issue of 9th April 1930. in reply to a letter wntten h,.- Mr .• J~mes Clark, a prominent pastoralist, it said-

" Tlw ' Courier' has stated again and again that the term 'costs of production' does not mean wages only. It invoh·cs also accumulative charges for taxation handling charges, transport charg-es,' brokers' charges, interest, and all other charges that add to the burden on indu..;try.''

noth the ,; Courier" and the Secretary for Railwa1·s agreed that these charges should come down; but ,,-hat attempt has been rnade in t'educe tbcm? The Government have farled i <") take af'tion, and the " Courier " has failed io sust'ain the a~itation. I do :not kno'Y what has prompted the Secretary for Raih:ays to alter his attitude; but apparently someone outside has whispered sweet words of comfort in his car, because \Ye have heard nothincr n1orc from. hl1n. Both the " Couticr" a~l the Rerrctarv for Railways aro no\v silrnt on this issrle; but they are prepared to compd the workers to bear the burden. Tlw Government have power to deal with 1hese matters bv way of legislation; they have p01'· C'r to rcrJucC tlte COSt Of Jiving by taking action in that and other directio:os. vVhv have the Govcrumcnt not taken acbon t•'l ~cducc these eh art;cs, so that the man \vorking ln the pustora.l industry can secure a fair deal?

I pronase to disccrc,s another matter of vital i11tercst' to the pastoral industry. Those eng:1,ged in tho :industry have not beon sufficicntlv patriotic to themselves and lo the conn6·y generally to organi<:e their o"-u woolselling scheme. 'l'he pastoralists arc the mc,,t neglectful of people so far as organisation in this direction is concerned. The only organisation that they can boast is one to approach the Industrial Court to reduce \Yng-cs on every possible occasion. They do r,ot reali"c, or .do not understand, the import lilCC of or~anising with a view to reducing tho nunH~rous charges to which I have alluded. To indicate the lack:,daisical method' of the pastoral industry, I propos·e L> quote this extmct from the "Queensland Producer " of 12th February, 1930-

" 'rhrce or four 3-ears ago stock agents ndvj~ed the pastoralists to produce rnore wool. They wcr.o p< sitive that if production doubled thcr,, would be a market for that production. The stock agents were not interested primarily in the wf'!. fare of the pastoralisls. ' 'l'!lC more

Mr. Brass1:ng!on.]

640 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

\\'Ool, the 1nore con1n1i:3sion.' That was their slogan. To"day the pastoralists realise that the ad vice did not meet the facts. Their industry is in Queer street. They arc disorg·anised, a;1d have no say in the markctmg- of their product .... ~ow the,. ask the Federal Government to spend· £3,000.000 to hold wool off the n1arket ~o that it nw . .v recover its stability."

That indicates clearly that the pastoralists have failL'd to realise that bad times vvould overtake the industrv: m1d it also suggests that bdor<O thcv asl(ed for a further wage reduction d1L'Y ~hot1ld at lcas'v organis2 and attack tho· ·' 1ntt l't .-.,ts that are really a load on the indu:-.trv. T'lwv hnxc allowed thern· sdn~s to drift· at the S\VCPt will of the ·woolbi'ok 1 ~ lH1 n~ llot lJ~ e-n satisfac· tjYl~:·. and 1 ~ is bnrue out in various din C'tion~. vc'r.·· (_k·finitcbT fiUp-

port rny COld' ~ntion that a ddjb 'l'J.tc nttc1npt ns n1adP to clown pri;t'S. \Vhen

--pcak,ng on thl' in l1cply last year I lth'nboncf1 that was a well-kuown fact that

\H'l'f' boing forrccl down. I \Yas a crvir' in the ·wildPrness. Of cvurse,

the \vooftnckcr . ..: repudjatcd n1eJ alld nothing rnore \1·as lv r<l about the rnatter. I uow desire t'o rai~c the question to show that at lPnst there "\Ycro othPrs \Yho r~:ali~ccl that a ddiberat, 'vas being n1adc to force (]Gv-n price~ 1o place the 1udnstry in a parlou,, eonditiun.

I wili now quote from a epccdt delivered by l\lr. P. G. Stcwart, formed:, a n1en1her of the Bnwe-Page GoYerntucnt, \vhcn discussing the wool situation at a nH_1 cting at Charlto;,, Victoria-

" In his opinion the )H'L''cnt collap'e of ,\-ool values wv.s due to a tvidespread consviracy on the part of the international vvoolbuyers, acting in concert, for the ddiberate purpose of depre.ss;Itgvvool values. Against that the indiv;durd producr'rs vrerc powerless, and they were being forced to sell their present clip at far below its re~i vale1e. '1'hc present Federal Government (BrucePage) had made no mov(' to protect the wool industry."

I will go on to q note the opinion of somemle who is not in agreement with the Labour Party-that is, Mr. Jam os Clark, a prominent pastoralist of this State.

Mr. A. JoxES: Is that the man who was connected vvith the bribery case'!

1\Ir. BRASSI:\GTO:\: HP nw,· be like the SecrNarv for Public Instrm:tion. and make a c!Pn!aL His name was mentioned in that connuction, but that is another story. ~lr. Clark, vniting to the "Courier," had tnrs. to say-

.. I mu arnused and indignant at England' ;3 protest, \Yhcn I rcrnernber bovv deliberate! v and callouslY dm·in~ the la~t two ,~:ear>', the Engl{;h wool ~trade has brought down the price of wool, and when 1 sec all around me so many of rn:~ \vool-growing friends hopelessly ruined bv their deliberate action. They knc,v, bee a use we told them often enough~ that "\Vool, ex.cludjng any interest on capital employed, cannot be grown for less than 12~d. per lb., yet English woolbuyers, knowing this, forced wool down to S~d. at the last sale in 11arch."

[Mr. Bmssington.

:\I r. Cl ark also had this to say-,, Strange to say, our brokers are the

strongest opponents of stabilisation. You will remember that in January a deputation waited on the Prime Minister c nd told him the wool trade did not vvant .'llV interference with the present method of selling, and next day. when this ··as math public, wool fell 20 per c0nt. in price."

At 4.28 p.m., The 8P<,\KEH resumed the chair.

:\[r. BRASSI:'\GTOX: That sho,vs how lllt> 8und the policy of tho woolgrower.o of thi:.; State has been in nut organrs1ng a cn-operatin' wool-selling- scheme.

I arn g·oing to snbn-lit anoth<•r fine. illu.:;. trution to ~iYe an idea why t.ho. pnce of wool in thi~3 cotuJtr~~ fell, and also to show how urg~:--u t is the ~i ty to-day for , 1n1e

· in the The "Statist,'' on 2nd 1922, shmvecl

wool purcho.sed in Australia and subsequently

thnm on the ,,odd's markets. The pnuu1crrttc-d ninety clivs prod ncerl. in

"-\.n,nalia, hawed that the London pnco fo,· thar vd\Cl! sold, n:ccccl•.d the Aus-trali·tn price by a~ n1u~h .as 16d. per lb., \iltlle the a.n•rage cxct ~,per lb. of the Yaluo o£ that v\'Ool on the London market as compared \Yith the _\nstralian vrice \;as. 10d. per lb. That shO\Y~ the urgent rwcess1ty of Ol'"'ani:::.ation, and it also t:.ngge5t·) that s.o lor~g a::: sp, culators in Australia can buy our \Yool fit t} ·,ir O\Yll price alld take it over to London thPv will realise enormous benefits. ~P<':·ulatOJ', ·· have on all occasions foue;·ht pypry :'ngg<;~tion for a wool pool.

I am going to repeat what I said last year jn the course of rny speech on the Addrcsa in Reply. I then suggested that the po:yers that be ,-hould get together and mst1tute wl!le method of woolselling. I fully detailed the activities of the British-Australian Wool Tieali,ation Association, and showed what a wonderful asset it had been to the people of Au,tr.:~lia, as v,el\ as the important part it had pla;·ed in stabilising the fiQanoes. of Amtralia: and I went on to advocate a co-operativE' marketing scheme, adding- that a co-operative selling scheme is no new ide~. A co-operative selling scheme has been m opPration in 1nany countries for many years, . nd ha.- achieved wonderfully successful results. The most successful result of all "'"' achie,·ed by the scheme operating in Canada fo1· the organisation and distribution of whL'at. IY e find that the Canadian wheat pool arose out of simila1· conditions to thaw which arc operating in Queensland to-day iu tlw pastoral industry.

The 1vhcatgrowers of Canada WPl'C the YictimG of cxploih'rs on every side: 'l'he

Dorninion U:ovcrnmcnt, hke our [4.30 p.m.] friends opposite-not interested

in the primary producers-on C'VL'r\- occasion refused to take action on bch~lf of the wheatgrowcrs. Eventually the t;TO'···f'rs decided to organise their own wheat,dling scheme, with the result that to-day there- are 140.000 Canadian farmers in that orc;anication, ·which controls approximately 60 p, r cent. of the Canadian wheat production. To realise what an important part that pool has played so far as the price of wheat i6 concerned, we need only consider that in 1923 the wheat crop of 474,000,000 bushl'b returned :£63,200,000, whereas iu

1924 a v.beo.t ero~' of 262,000,000 bushc·ls returned £64.0'"';Q.O(JC\ er an increase of £800,0CO a·~ corrlpare\1 ,,·ith the previc 1.3

year. rrhat :Jg-g-csts ha: can be done ';y vv'ay of co-oncr.di,~c nlnrk tinrr, and Eh't•··;;~s the urgent r;ecc ::sity for the r~-~stol'ali.s· 1 • nd the G~.~vernn1f'•lt of Ouecns1mHl do-in~ omethiL: ~ ~11Dng shnilar lin..:s in r:onllt'ctiJn 'th wool.

draw an 1-JJHJ ... lo,-·"f bct'1'ecn the and _\u~traJia bv noint

Cnnadiarl· people an wlwat fot export \Vith a v ~ in .\us-trulia, o o: _. ani::o:tion, h:1 YO to fdl D1E~ \TC )l pried it ;vi11 brin,,, ~ ith tht~ re inclustr7 does n-y_ TC'C:l'i\'0 . tll:tt rt undouLtNll} 1. ou1d r~.·oci ,-t~ \.en" a. '>-oolt->elling ~cL~rnc in O}Jl•ration. If :3U·.h a schell!., had been in operatit-!1 in t,h•: last fc,y· ~vc,-rp ouJ~ \Ycul i~dwstrv v ould he in a n:il1C'h bcttce position than it 'is in to-da.v.

Tho 'A-hole activities of the graziers up to thtl prO'· 'nt have been in the diPction of reducing \vagcs and i.ncrcasiu.:; ho-:_r:. ,Ve!·y little has boon heard of any attempt to orgrt:!1i'"<~ a wool-R,Jling scht•n1e. V,"'hen vvool price-:; romn1cncc:d io L; ll rapit11.v, gra7iCl'S Lel ,tn1 p::t .:i _'-stric\en, and c] _, Jour arose for tlll_' crL,ltim.. of ,L sch rdc J:imi1ar LO 13 ___ \.\Y.ll. L i:1 Stato re~olutivns \vrre "-~:uJ'!r d sL:gg[ the cre;,tio;:t of a. '"'c:h ··Y'f' TYJ rlt >r '1' 1 _•vend schc1ne v:,-(•te ~uL~~it~,,~:~~ ~~-!-il~·~;t~ IJlajn. it· o[ graziers fayourcd co-ope-r·1.iivf' llEtrketi:ng, and I HlF~Pr::;taT d that n1cmbnrs o£ th ... ~ Selectors' A--..,oci- tion v~ C'ro unaiJ irnons. l~calising the trend that CYf 1ts were taking) tlh1 brokers \V rr idle. In~'r:ir·cd and po' c1< u1 ncr·~

\\~as ll''Pd to clefcat the c 'use of ro-ot c::rative rna:d-:t :ing. of ]onJ rlan1our for action no' n:c:; e,Jnlo The pa•toralists to-day arc in 1h::: F.:rrl':' ;Jn·,rt1fll~ US th:;v \Vl'f8 in t\\ elv..;; months [l.[!','O. rrhc~ ODh7

rt'med~y j: a further <l!iJ:)0rd to tho Indusiria~l Court to bring don·n wt: ~c J. I ~ope that will not eo me a, bout. Tho pastorat >,rorkr r~ hJ,Ye all'rnd_~,· Inr.-1e n bi~ enough con 2"-'!-ion. \\-e on thi~~, side of tlw C~w.Hbt.'r. ~.ha represent those and believe in " living wage for the c£ \Y.- .:;;tern (~uccnsland, r- iterate that h fDre furtlF'i' reduction of -; agr-~ cc'o1es n bont n lTckrtio~l r-hou]J. b~ made in cthC'l' c·.rcrg~ ,, and that hon. 1nen1bcrs opposite mHl i 1 .\' .,,.tol 1it'lts of Qno:.·ns!and should reali~,~ rhc~ of ftn-tl2r wage r.;ductions 1n the "'''sh·rn t. -...-v;!s of Queensland. The

pcrtions of thf State d~~'2Jl:l entire]:,· on pactor:jl i!~dnstn,c-pr('lnipally on the \Y: cs rcc\...; ! ~1 b~· tlr~ ~Yor~_i:.~g 1nen in that indu ,1 'Y· It 1;:; <;,qjficier:t. for po-int out th .t, the hi[)E ~· the \vagc the men in th"t intinstt~v the gre:tt,;r the prns-p·Tit · a.nd tbc rr1oro the p1.·ogrc :::; nutdrJ by the \Ye, t. If wacre, co.,tinne> to f ll, then our \YC .t0-rn t'J"'<''llS ~i-nusL c~C>.cLr;r> F'urthcr r-::duced w-,g-c-. rnnst R riDusl:T aficct ihc purchasing pCY\'\',__r, not oul_v o~ ~he) pa.stor,~t \",Vrk._rs, bnt of tho \Yholc oi the wor1ccrs of this Sbti''. to obt.1.in y·o.olLn goods. If you pay the ·n hivh '.·a '~c~, thC'n they {'an pay tho high prices fo~· \\-o JJlc;1 goods, with the result ilnt t!wre will be a hcnlthv demand for \Vcol a.nd the induc"try vvi11 pr0Gper But, j£ yo11 reduce w::.~c-; to a lo-w level, the people g-enerally cannot purchase these goods, and then the industrv cannot expect to recover, Lccause there will be no demand for wool

I conclude by saying that the issue is evidently loaded; that, so far as the Graziers'

1930-2 s

G·H

..:\. ,Joci~ti-ion is cc);-:.ccrned, there is no way out <'xcept a further reduction of wages, If any trouble develops in that industry, we shall haYe hon. rncmbcrs 011posite and those oppo.,ed to the workers in the industry telling us that the pa<oral workers are wron:o. I ortly hope that, if trouble does develop in the industr~~, the general public wi 1l realise lhe enormous burden on H,e industry irnposcd by the charrrcs I have mentioned, and, in justic~ to tho I~astvral worker" \Yill n'aE-·e tba":" a. living IYH ~·3 i-. nL .-,,--::try.

n 1.\Jr. JIA\~LO~ (!tlin·'': _BefC?rc g~~l16 into \~~)mrnlttL ) of ~- .ppJ,v I \Ylsh to ca1l attention to a conple L'f nHtttcrs the urgency o£ ' 11ich prPcluc>s n,o waiting till a later st. I fi,·st want to call attAntion to what I n1ight tcrrn ~he crimhnJ disref:)ard of the hutlth of the com:munity bv the Home DepJ.rtnu~nt. Y<:'i'tcrday i rec~ivcd answers fro!TI the Jicnnc Sc.:retary to some questions which I 2~l-:~·d conc"·rning the danger of nn outbreak of disea~e nnong the citizens of Bri::;banE ~-s a e: -:ult cf faultv treatment n r i.be se ngc -~ orks at Lug ::_rage ·Point. '.rhe, IIomc Sef:r-.. tarY brJdl g·ot up and <.tllilOllll('Cd·- ~ ~ ~

·- Th.:? 111' u~od of disposal of Sa\Ydust ;;;nd li~pli(l rdlK ':eel frun1 the se\vers at Lu c Point i:3 a potential d~ns..-;r-to he :-:th o£ the cornmunity."

Thu..t un. er w:; J frank, at all events. I will :;:i.-o lho hon. gentleman credit fol' th ·t, but it i-i an1nzing to ilnd that the

is not acccrnp.1nicd by another state-to the a tion the Home Department

to protc::t the health of the com-1-lome Ser~re~ar'; hirnsolf admits

cf tho COlni-;1t,nitv is endanPl''-1 ('Ilt sr•::-tera Of treating

"~''\a ~c and rcftls(' frorn Bri::hanc at Lvggage Poillt'. J-le r_~1u1its ouitc baldlv that the di~posal at Luggago _.Point is 3, potential dnngt'r the ht~alth of the eonununity, and he adn1it'', in :nls\Ver to another qu0sticn, t 1nilch eo._,,<;: are depasiured on the grou11d O' ,, wh1ch the SC 1,\ 1ge from Bhsbane is sor<?a.d. an cl Y. c urf' lt>d to believo th~,t the £lo1no Dcparhncnt }:3 taking no action in this. :matter. There has been con~ , ;de:rable agitation with l'CSPf''"'~ to tbr.;o

~aLnL:nt. Wc.~·ks o..t Po1nt for t.ilO C')up]c of ~-e _ :·s. b\ o :·cal'S ago

occ rcpor~ \~.as furn1s:1ed 0:.,; ""' nu ,Jit ,ll autho~ rity, '.Yhich t:.J~1c:e:mncd the p1 :-·"ont SJ'qk.·nl of trcatn1ent. \ii/ c r·lso had a report which pointed out that fio;;h ;<~ J oy .t,:rs cau5ht ia t:;c vicinitJ cf Luggagd :Point were a source o~ d.,nger to ~1e hralth o~ the con1n1unit~,. E\~~ir since that time the attention of respousiLlc officers has bee;, called to this en•rcxisting c1::\ngcr, but no action so far hns b,~cn taken b.'" the lionJe Depart:ncnt in any 'sa· to 1ff... 6 :1ard the healtlt ef the per )1". Th,.'re j<:; JJo dcubt th:-tt the chtnge1· ,, ill be rn rticularly great in the coming '~urrnn8r. Thi.:; year \YC l1ave had c~n P~~cc-:ui1Jgh~ mild wiutcr Y.'ith very little frost, H.nd v.-·c aho utFlerstand that the spring and sumIn•, r following au cxc- ptionally mild wint0r 1& usually favo•:rablc to tho outbreak of disPase. ·This winter has been exceptionally mild and very little frost has been experienced in Brisbane; consequently the coming sumnwr will be very fa.-om·able for the outbreak of an epidemic, The Minister in his reply cndca.-oured to convey th0 idM that the refuse from the hospitals, where people with all classes of diseases are living,

111r. Hanlon.]

Supply. [ASSEMBLY] Supply.

was not put upon the land upon which these milch cows have been depastured. While the sawdust spread about Luggage Point is not coming from the hospitals but from the unscwored portion of the city, as the Home Secretarv '<tys. it passes through the '!llHG sewer aso tJw' fluid from the varioUS hospitals in the cit:; Y-'hich are connected up with the s"wagc works; con~equent~y, that sa>.dust. i,. impregnated V>ith the fimd from the city hospilah just as much as if it had been used in those hospitals. There·· fore wbcn the sawdmt is sprf'ad upon the _gra~ing area adj a C"nt to Luggage Point treatment works, a grave danger of the contamination of the city food supply exists, and the public arc juetihed in l>eing alarmed at the present situation.

The danger to thc milk supph- is particularly great-far greater than from the air-borne dist;;aso gerrns, because tho 9attle _,vhwh are grazing upon land oveF wh1ch tl!1s sawdust has been spread flre hable to piCk up the germs and transmit typhoid to the babies of the city. As the Minioter admits, the recent report showed both old and new deposits of sawdust to be contaminated with the bacillus coli, which is a member of the coli-typhoid group of organisms. If these oerms are affecting the sawdust spread a.bout that area there is a .danger that cows grazing on that land may possibly pick up this disease, and milk being one of the most nasilv affected foods·-I suppose one of the greatest disease ca-rriers in the food familythe danger of spreading disease among infants is particularly great; and there 1s no justification for the Home Secretary ann~uncing that this ·danger exists unless ,;ide by side with the announcement comes the statement of what steps he is prepared to take to minimise that clanger. It seems rather a farce to find the Home Department spending thousa.nds of pounds on baby ·clinics and boasting of the steps being taken t•J safeguard the health of the infant life of the conuuunity, when we find the department taking no steps whatever to prevent the sprnn.d of such a dangerous disease. There is no doubt about the .danger. The press and the public see the danger which exists, and the Home Secretary should also be called upon to see it. He should also consider th<> effect that a srrious epidcrnic would have. not only on the health and 1 i "''" of the people of Brisbane. hut upon the trade of Brisbane•. The outbreak of a _•eriouo epidmnic in this citv \vould haYn a verv serious effect upon the "commerce of the port an<l the live,; of the people. We would have to her the po .sibility uf th0 port being quaran-1 incd in rep·a ;·d to shipping, whirh would gi,-e the port a wide berth. The effect of an outbreak upon our trade with Southern States in nH,at, butter. chee'3e, fruit. etc., would he vnrv serious inclcccl. and the trade bctwPcn this' country and Great Britai11 ,. :oulcl ab,; be very s8riously affected. It is only th0 Home Deparimcnt which can

C'eal with the situation. It is no use tho people depending upon local ;;uthoritins. Tho J3risb:tnc City Council ha•, created the position w hi eh cxisb; and it is useless of tho people to depend on the Brisbane City Coun· cil or othct· local authorities to deal with tho -.ituation. As the "Brisbane Courier" ha~ ,.aid. the ))Llblic health cannot be ldt to the divided authoritv of the Brisbane Citv Coun<'il and other local authorities. There is ono supreme authority in this State, and that authority is the Hom0 Department. That is

[Jlr. Hanlon.

the position. and the lH>ople vf Bri"banc look to the Honw Department immediately to Inakc .sonH anlJOnnce-rnent as to what steps th<•y arc taking to protect the' lives of tho people. 'l'hc people are so concerned about thP matter that tlw Home Department, in justicu to thc'rn, ought to take the people quite frankly into its confidence and in1n1e· diatel~ annonnce what steps are being taken tu -afcguanl the live,; of tbe infants anrl people gt'lJcrall} of this city.

There is auothcr n1att.cr l want to refer to~that is, the trea hncnt being Ilk'ted out to unemployed fcn1ale vvorkers hy .the p;resent Co;-ernment. It ha5 bo<·n most cllstre-.smg to holl. rnctuber.;; of this Chau1ber who co1ne in contact with working people to find the :-~i1uation in which uncn1ployed won1cn arc plaeed in Brisban,_' and other parts of thf> State. The atiitucl,. of the Government i~ that no rclid rations shall be given from the outdoor relid depot to single people. They treat single >Yomert exactly the same as _they 1-rcat single lTICil. rrhcr(' !Hay be ~01110 JUStification for a refusal to give smgle men rl'lief-pNsonall:c, I do not think there i~, It may be argued that they can take up their ;.wags and go on the tran1p and l~ok for work, obtaining rations from police stations, if they are in distress ; but nobody can argl}e that the >vomen of Brisbane who are m distress can do that.

\YP ha.-c had a couple of illn,;tration.s in the weekly pre's of thn long treko which have bc<•n accomplished hy qnemployed women seeking >vork; but stll'ely the Government do not claim that the unemployed women of Brisbane without families or without anyone L1 prorect or maintain them should take up their swags an-d tramp the roadc; of this eonntrv! I can hardlv believe that even the mMt callous :Minister on that side would arg·nc that they should have to .do so. \Ve hflvc to bear in mind that: one of the wartime bogyman stories of our friends opposite was that the Kaiser was going to make the citizens of this country leave their native tC>wns. 'l'o·day the Government of this State arc apparently setting themselves the job of doing what they nceused thE' Kaiser and other people in Germany of wanting to do-compelling nati,·c-boru citizens to leave their 11 ,tivc towns and go elsnwhi'rc to seek assist:liwe. That is the position; and, however they rna.." ~cd..: ro ju:;:t!f~, it in the case of ~ln~d~, HH'11. tbe.v ran not offer any justifica-1 ion in the case of singlP women. There are

ill'J·le wornen ':vho have no hor11es and no one to .depend upon, but who are all rig·ht v'.·hdc thc:v are r('C._'iYing ,yag(-~s for their 1\'0rk. \Vhen they are t't>rned out of work the,v arc entirely d.,pendent on the Govern· utc'nt of thP cmm"ry to do something for ih~m. Rec0ntlv here I quoted the case of a ·wmnan who a fo'" v:oeks hack called to see rnc, "~hose he"lth had broken down and whose ony rclati n:- ha(l been killed during the "\7ar, bnt who lmd been refused rations by the outdoor relief depOt. I got into cornn1unication with the Und"r Seoretarv. Mr. Gall, who i:r:si·~tcd en d1c1 rf'lief dn}H1t giving her an al!llwanc•p of 5>o. per >neck until ,he was able tu g-et SOHJ•_:thing. Last Thursdav a, woman in si1ni.lar rircun1stanrcs oanw "to s,·vJ n1e. Slw was single and urwrnploycd. She had bc<'n m~em~lo::ed sine" the beginning of the ."<'~t·. ~he 1s l!J rathrn· a. b:;·d state of health. Shn i>< an old factory hand-a middle-aged woman who had worked for many years in Queensland, but whose health has now broken down. She has no one to support her and

Suppt.y. (27 AUGUST,j Suppty. 643

no home--in short, no one responsible for looking aftee her. I thought that in that case something should be done t:o help her, al1ll again I went along to see the Under :Secretary. On Friday morning last he rang np the dl'pot and ordered the ol!ic<>r in charge LJ give her son1c a...;,c~istnnce untll a further ·Juquiry was 1nadc. :vhcu thPy woul·d see what could be done. Last Friday I went out to sec het, nucl H•nt' hc1· in o,·l Frida.y afternoon -c' tho depOt. vvhcn• she wns rc·fused any .U'3slstance. Si1c ca1nc to sco n1e on Friday night, and 1 gavtl her a letter explaining· the case, pointing out v,rho slH' was, and o;tating that in my pt·escnce the Gnder Sccrei ,,,-v had runrr up tl11e oflicer in charge and _,;,i~l tlmt something should be done. I sent her in on Saturday .. a..;king that the case be treated as urgent, as I h:new the won1an was i11 particularly bacl circllHJstanccs. \Vhen she '\vent iu on Satur·day 1norning, a paper was _;iyen to her to fill in and take to the local police st<:ttion. The ~um total of it all is that up to date she has been three times to the depot and three times to the local police ~;tation, and has b('cn refusc.d assistancepnhaps until a piece of sealing-wax is put or~ SOHH' piece of paper. This wornan, who hao. ro the kno\Ylcdg-c of those at the relief dPpOt, been in want,~has to wait all this tinw befon' some food can he giyen to her. I claim that it is a disgraceft;l state of affairs that a \\"Oman in such oit·cumstances should be• placed in this position -running to me and tc. the relief depot and the police station and th-,n coming back to sN' thc member of Parliament and beg-ging for something to eat. All I em1 say is that I hope the Home SeCl·etary has some; Pxplanation to offer to the people of this State why such a state of affairs is permitted to exist.

Both the cases that I have pointed out are <.as<'S of middle-aged women. I think that

-':very hon. member in this Chamber will realise that such cases are particularly hard. and that something should be done by the department to p1·event such things happening. But wh;tt must be the position of the countless _younger women and girls who are out of work, who hav~ no homes, no friends, and no one . responsible for them. in a big city hke Brisbane 'I They .are bemg turned out ot \York every day. With the depression IJOW existing and with the decreased purcha•iug po\ver of the workinp- cornn1unitv since the reduction in the basi~ wage a number of shops in B;·isbane and a nun~ber of factorit:'s ar(- Teducing hands. In son1o c~tses. imt~ad of dismissing the girls, they are being placed upon short time. Thfl main TJOint is that there' are many youno· wornen cmd ~irls being dismissed from' thcii'-" omploYrnent in Brisbane to-day, and there al~e ''m[JloyL'rs who arc not prone to stud'' '':lH_•ther a girl ha~ a home to go to if sh~~ i:1. di:-irnisscd. J\1any girL:3 arc being dis-1n1ssed h·on1 \York in this city-girls who ],an no ho11ws and Me solely dependent on 1:lJat the.} ('arn to 111aintain then1 in decency. \Yhon ?Dung 1.vomen and v,irls are turned on1 of their· work, they arc d<pcnclent upon somebody for charity. 'I'he\· should Lw •·ntitled to go to the Homo DeiJartment and, as a nght, at least be abic to ask for food t·J maintain them until the:. receive further work. They o,hould be permitted to approach the' dcpadment as a right. They should not be compelled to approach me or to upvroach any other n1ernber of ParlianH~nt. or to -;o c;tp in hand to anv member of .the co;nmunity asking that , he intercede

with the Gc,·ernment to get them a bit to eat. If these people arc in need, then ad citiz,•m of the State thev should have the right to go to the Home 'Department to get food, They should be penmtted to do that as a right, without any suggestion of charity or nn~y sugge,:tion of a fu,our conferred upon ll1('!ll by a IHCtnLer of Parlinancnt. It i 13

a d-t~~raeeful ~ 't of circtunstan.ee that people in that position arP compelled to a1Jproach a n1C'n1ber of l)arlian1unt to ask .lh:irn to ildNcodc with the Home Department-to confer a p~litical ftwour upon them by gettrng them food when they are hungry. 1'his state· of affairs cannot be allowed to go OIL

I think every hon. Inc1nber in this Chamber and the people outside will agroo that, no matter how bad things arc financially in this State-no mattn how bad the financial clt'pression m a'' be. and no matter how short of monev the Treasurer mav be· for his ordinarv ~ activities~~tt least t'he State can -afford to feed the young women and girls who are thrown out of employment, have Ilo home to go to, and no one to look after them and protect them.

I am glad tho Home Secretary has now entered the Chamber. I have been making an appeal, particularly on behalf of tho \\omen and girls of this community. I have pointed out that the Government should do something in the way of providing assistance for the unemployed single women who ha"'' no homes and no one to maintain them. I have pointed out the ca>e where a woman approached me last 'fhursday in quc't of food. I brought her case under the notice of the Home Department, and the Under Secretary, Mr. Gall, telephoned to the Relief Department, and said that this woman was to receive 5s. worth of food to keep lwr going until her position could be inquired into. 'fhat woman has been three tinw1 to the relief depot-she has gone down on her fourth trip to-day-and has been thr<'c times to the local police station, 'till unable to get food. She came to see me about the matter, I want the Home Secretary to understand that. no matter what else the pPople may be stiffering, and no m_atter what privations may exist, the people of Queensland arc prepared to finance tho feeding of the women of the community who havo no homes-women who are unemployed.

The Ho,rE SECRETARY: The rule not te supply mtions to single people was established by the previous Administration.

'Jir. HAJ\'LO:'\: The Home Secretarv is not >tatin~- the case fairly. Before tliings got as bacl a~ they aro there was a rulo e'ta Llished by the previous Administration that oingio men should not bo supplied with ra~,ion~. lJt~t,

1• whe

1n tl:_~ngs got worR{~, that

n11e \Yas ao011Shcet. V\: hen the unen1ployed situ<-Lt~·'__Hl bcca1ne serious, the rule \\as not on forced.

I defy 1 he Henle' Sec1·etary, or anybody <'be on the other side of tho House, to point out a ca~o prior to the GoYcrninent taking otflct' of where a wo1nan, hornelc ,., 1 unorrl]Jloycd, and iu need of food, had to go from pillar io post in this city-frorn the police to the relief depot, and back to members of Parlian10nt-for a v. eek askiug tor ,c.Int}

t';ing to cat.

The HmlE SECRETARY: I can. Ko case can Le brought under my notice where I have turned down a woman of that kind .

Mr. Hanlon,]


::\:Ir. IL\J',;"LON I an1 bringilL': ntH~\ r the of the ?>.~ nistcr the proced;.1rc that

I wi!l g vo hin1 credit for ha.Y in.:_; the not to desire :._ICh condi dons to went to ihe Under Sccretrrrv in

..,-dth this n1aHcr and, in~ rny prcscrce, r 1-ng up tho relief depot a!ld 0

ave in~trnc~ions that the v. -:>rnan should be FUL-'!_1licd with foocl. Th ·t IYa,s ln-st Frida~, a_: d the \\ o~~lan hus not ~~at food yet. Tho I-Ion10 83'rttury is not to bl[nne for it. The blarno lies ., ith the G-o".rern:rncnt for having insi·<~':d on the officers of tho relief depot curtailing the issue of rations to a rninimum. I do not be!icre th0ot the offir· ,. in

of the rdief depot wants to do these ; l .1t ho has been inf;tructed b~ tht

Go,-crnnwnt, and every possible excu-,.;1 is taken advauhtg·e of to deprive! people of rations in order to keep expenditure do,vn.

J\"[r. POLLOCK: Why were not the instructions of the Home Secrctar0 obeyed?

Mr. HANLON: The instructions of the I-Iorr1o S0crctarT,~ wore not obe""',7 ed bec_tu")e tl_.e Govcn1.ne:rlt, are irnpre:c.:--111g on tb;~ bnreau to keep the isue of relief down to a Llinirnum. It appears that the Govern1ncnt'.:; nttitudc is that, no matter how people are suffering, or how short of food and shelter people in fJC com1nunity 1nay be, the unern~ ploymer::t relief figures 1nnst be kept down as low ~'~ posr.;ible. rrhat is the p.Jsition. I ne·-- ~r krH~')'\~ such a c, se to occnr in the rar ii al of this Stgtc, 'vhere a V\/Qlnan in snch a plight was refused food. Furthermore, why should th .. cc people ha Ye to (or c to a n1cn1b0r of Parlian1cnt? "\Vhy d10uld :J..1l\7 7

•' mnan in this cmnnl',j_njtv-. unemployed, ;v1th no homu and iu ~~.,ant," \Yith no O'l•c re. ':porsiblc for her, have to come to a r 1etnb~r of Prtrliamont to ::='"--k p'1litical p:1ironagc '! Ev·_:ry t'ndcayour I r.~.1ade to a~~::.i~t that 1A onw n to ..::'lll'C rations frorn ·the relief dcf!ot throughoPt L\r:t week has been i~wffcci]'.~e: so \Yhat C'h ·ntc hn- a. \YO':.nPu got -,. ho ha'3 not a nL_!nber of ParJialn•_'nt interested in her ca'-"J? I-To, 1nanv von;cn in this cih~ go to n1ornbcrs of ParliU'n1e11t 1.dwn thcv v-ant Sf·'11"thinp: done? ~Cbey ha Ye ;; rir,~.ht to food. Ono had only to look ~lt the \Yoin::tn to see that she \Vas in 1.-'ad hca.LJ1. It 1· absolutely irnpossiblc to-day

ar~7 ~inglc unemployed v,'OJnan in this to get any assiBtanco frcrn the relief

d -;let if dtc has not a member of Par1iai1lr:'nt t:J fight that l•attie for her.

The SLCHET· R:. r~oR J\1r~-zs: That rJ_._·inciple rtco.1 under the Lrrl.Jonr Govc:rnrnlilt.

1 ~ • II \~\LO?--r: That stalc;:ncnt is untrue. Jt is <t ;')ad rrfled ion on thc attitude of the qovenHne_;;, and I hopo we sb~ll get an a,,. frotn the HoLlO 8ccl'ctary ro-day '-d1i( 1.Yi1l prc'-.rf'nt thi,, happening again. I hl1v-o had t"\yo caEe<::", of tbe 5iarnc kind since tl1i:1 s ·,..n1 started. I 1-·Jpo the Home SP{'!'( ""ill g .. uro the liouso that unem-

·n-om' n-::ingle \Von1en particularly'' ho hn'. c no hornes will be pro ;id'-_;d \vith food. ~r.hat js the lci.··t a GoYcrnmcnt should do; n..nd it is a just and rcL.sonablo clairn upon tlu "ll I hope tho Homo Sccretarv will .o-ivo an assuranoo that this stat0 ~f affairs 'xill no longer exist.

JVIr. BR\SSTNGTON: 'rhosG conditions arc existin,s all owr the State.

1\fr. l{r\.?\LON: At the tir11e I n1ontioned t~w first c-.tse the Income (Unemployment n,,Jief) Tax Bill was going through this

[Mr. Hanlon.

Cha1nbe1·; and I made! several requests to the Government to do something for une:tnllloycd \Vomcn. I pointc0d out very clearly that, although the Qoyernnlc?}L \Vcre taxing vvom -n and girls to the ox tent of 3d. in the fjl on their earning ~-e-r en dcclnctln?Y ld. fl'Ol1l every 4s. that a woman earns by a half day o,t the wash-tub-no provi,,ion w<ts !nctdc for their relief.

I clt:..in1ed then t,hat the Govrrnruont had no right io t;__b--~ n1oncy from wo.:_ncn otkcrs unlen the:' v.~cre prepared to do so1nething

for them. Another n1onth has [5 p.nl.] g~no :.tnd I 1vant to know

vnwt Govcnn:n: nt havo done tu pro,ridc \. ork or a,;;sistancc: for unen1ployed fcrnalr--. The won1en arc~ pa,":in, into this fund. bat wha,t. have the Gorenunent done, !n spit,e of the pious pron1ises dragged from Llw Sccrcnry for Labour and Industry by iho Opposition that something "onld be done fur \\·onle!l '?

Is ther _: one Y.ron1an in Queensland to-day working and rccciYing even a sn1all ""~.vage from 1 ho UncnJploc·mmot Relic£ Fund into \'<'hich her ,,isters throughout Queensland are payi11g? 1\ot ono. I-t as any assistallcc fr·o1n th<1t fund br un giYen t·O any di;::;trc-.ssed \\'Onlen in tl1c cmn1nanitv? l\ot at all. There is not 0110 case of a worn 1.n being relieved of her ciistrc~s through the operations of that nnmnployr:_wnt rcli0f tax, and I am surprised that th~ Secret :ry for Labour and Industry C""~:er 111:1de the prornisn. Fir ,Jt of all 1 the hon. gentkuPn :3aid that nothing could be f1one fol~ womc·n-thrrt it \V:•s a difficult problc1n, ancl so on and so forth; but, aftel~ tho rc·pcatorl attacks of tho Opposition, the hon. [>:ent1crnan proLlised that something y ,_,rld h~ done in11ncdit.tcl,. l-ie drafted an arr __ ;lL~merit :-"nd ;,_rcc-ptcd ·Jt. 'rh at left th -,

1tion cnti>-'cly in hiS hand:-:, and he claimed he .[ln.1endn1ent thr :1 rnoved as suffi~

cient to do <:-,..-:!net hin~-: for th'_' won1en. I .<<cl at tht~ tin--_: tlLtt,I c_ljd uot. beJioyc th;;t it \TitS :::ufftrient, rend that I \Vould rather h 'VC " definite ·ueLdment of tLo Act which w1uicl centre all money collected from female

orkers in a. fur cl to h~-· utilised onl:- for fp,·: t!e wm·kerc. Tl-e Minister promis0d th:1t "'kquatfl prov-ision would be made for the relief of 11nclnnlov d ~/:orriPD, Out r·)rhir:["" r , .. s Le =:r:. done . .._ \'V·hy the delay? \\:'"hen is r ::1irf to be gi'.~f '1? Arc tl1c Govcnnucnt

to ···ait till these people die of shtrva-They aro forcing the you·_lg wonlC-1

of T1ri~l:ane into a life of shame. Are they p1·ep~red to a.lk.-..v this state of affp}r t0 go 01 .. ,-.,-h.-;n Lhcrc L .. r,: do:: di1S anrl doz"ns of v·,-oJ•_icr .,_,~·i' :1ont fo,1d and shcl+cr and no place that thcv can <<ell at for U.'si tance? There ;-J_rc tiYO dqxutD1enL-th. llorne Departx1ont, which achninistcrs the Olltdoo::· r01ief, ncglec.,lng ils d~1t:.~ b ref•1sing to p;ivc f?od !o hungr proplc in this c1t:.~, and the DepartID<- nt of Labour and Industry, 'vhich i:J collect! :;J hnndrt>ds of po1E1ds Wc..!~kly fr~:nn £c1nr- h~ 1, ork-:1' :. refusing to c!,l sornoilung for the relief of 1U1Clnployed f( m: lr

~1r. 11.\X 1.~·:::LL: ~ .... on ln10<Y that]:.: not true.

Mr. I-IA XLON: Tho hon. member who inb ·jccts will have an opportunity when I sit do\nl of detailing the activ! LirB of the Dep;ntrncnt of Labour and Indu;~ry in 1 he rr•lid of m.~mployed females. If he can show rne JhaL something has hc·m clolle in any way, I s}:all be plerrsed. )1part· aliogcthcr from political parties, I, as a Queonslander, feel it most humiliating that thi~

Supply. [27 AUGUST.~ iH5

:\Ir. :G1A::<:WELL: 1:"'"onr party was responsible for it.

\h'. t] "SC

AHY (Hon. ,J. C. rather <-unused

hol!. rnClnber him why I

hypocrisy. this miserv

and ha.ving th.C which they hav"

rnPm ber that it should assist· to

The HO~fE SI:;:RETAH Y: Iu order to the Go;·(·!nmcut. demands that shoulrl 11:: done' vvh:if'h his o\vn

d The hon. member apnronched hi1n \vith

· · llc he has hie:; past : but I

~·'1_\. that hn has nPver ('tH..'C: approached n1c ac: J.\1inistcr of the deparunent on the job .

. '\1r. Iho:LO:\: Win· slHmJ.cl I approach you?

T!H' HOlvLE SECH.ETARY: The hon. 1:nondwr stat-.rd that, whiL.;t the L~nl1er Sccrc-

on tho otht'r ha~ ber.n tu!'ncd >[·f;..SCS ha>:(~ OC'( nrrcd . .IJ,_)

were ur 1nvself acted E::i

Ul;cler the c~rr;unuq <l.nCP~.

to gi-ve• pro

rations. I denv and no 1nnn ha~

tncrnbcr::: it-and

n1C'n1bP.r cnrdrl. h:tYr' don0 \Y(-JS to cor:nc along roe ~J.:- l\li:1:str;1' ]n this if not to

:wy ofiico, and draw rny aUt.•ntion the case, ~t;; nth er hon. rnen1br;rs haYo had the courtesy tr) do. I chul!cnge hon. rnetnbers opposite to

Th<' 110~1F: SEC'l~ETAR'{: By doing thuG \VC' a l'\" goi np: to ruakr n1orc unmnployrnent .

. Mr. POLLOC'K: \Vhat is your altc,rnatiV<);

SECHETARY: Our alterna .. cn~ry possible means shouid bA

lab0ur 0f that' elacs ean be their conditions, but. on thn

he mad" aYailabletaken steps in that

cndeayour to bring such a. to remind hon. mem

throl!gh at

Hon. J. C. PetersorL 1


all economic crisis, and we ha Ye all got to suffer during the reconstruction period.

:Mr. W. FORGAN SMITH: Do you say that the Labour Government are the cause of the ·Lconomic crisis throughout the world to-d~ty?

The HOME SECRETARY: I am not going to he so stupid as to say that any party is rr!>ponsible for the economic crisis :dl oYer thP world. What I do say is that Queensland and Australia arc in an entirely rliffcrPnt. position from any other part of the Y\ odd.

GOYFR:<;~lEXT ::ih•.tBERS: Hear, hear!

The HO?.fE SECRETARY: Wo had pre,-iomdy the ovportunity to make Queensland one· of tlw bnt countries of the world, but ;ve bungled the job.

~'\n 0PPOSITIOX .}lE\TBER: There is no doubt h·1nt that.

The' llOl\11~ SECRETARY: The na,t (;oY<'l'llmn,t piled np deficit after deficit. a!,hmt;h tboy borrmYcd a great amount of Joan HlODL'Y·

:\'1r. 1 'r\SE · The~ H<-·Yr'r got up to your ddicit.

Th • ll0;1,1J': SECRETAH.Y: The deficit w" r"n·· to-clay ;, nwrel} the result of past La boln- adrn1nisb·ation. J)ors the hon. men1-bcr s,,. that the loss in connection with State rtatiorlo;;, for i!lstancc, i~ our fanlt; that the lmc;e losses on the day-labour svstem, the million we ],, .. ,, lost during the 11ast f1fteen years, are the result of the policy of this C overnment?

1\1 r. llAXLO~: You arc ;:.~·(ling 111 for tho JrHrcha ~c of Swift's n1oatwork.'l.

Tl10 HOME SECRETARY: :::\o matter "shat conditions mav bo in other parts of tho ''·"Orld, we find ;urseh·es, in this vast, mpcc:Jicd State, with miles upon miles of .railwa~v and en1pty spaces everywhere, in thellnfortunate condition we arc in to-daY.

::\:lr .. H YKES: You are in the happy po.sition 0l havmg hPlonged to both. so vou canuot ·riticise ut'. · ~

The llO;\iE SECRETARY: The hon. ~i1C't~1h, r i:3 q~tit_r right in uutking that interJf'l't!Cn, Gut It ~~ a fool of a n1an \Yho \Vhen h,~ sees_ ~1 red light, does. not t-ake \Y;rning. (Oppo,l1Iun laughter.) I Y>ould uot have made d 'Jlccch if the hon. member for Ithac" had not bronghi· me to my feet. So far as n1y df'partmf'nt i:-; cont('ruPd, \Ye shall endeavour to tn~at thE"·:e cas~..s on their merit:;· and I again echo the f'entirnont that ''-''3 c11·'e not ont tn cru:-.h anybody who is dovln and out. Hatlwr ehall '"0 lend them a helping hand ~~ hcrpvpr po -siblt'.

lvir. Ih~o;Lox : Don't ,·ou think they should f-':l't food without haYii1g to see you iHdiYidually ':

Th0 liO::\IE SECRE'L\.RY: They should rr.akc application to the State Department. If a mnn appljc., for 1·ations, an inspector goc,. out to inquire into the case. If there is no in,peot•r. · i he policc inspect; and the r .ttions arc ;,, .. ,need on the basis of the report .... According to the hon. member. any person -.,v:~o got., do\Yll there should get rations on his (HYll word.

1dr. liA~Jl):\: ::\ot unle:::s thov nee-cl ratim.1s. If !hi' woman needed rations·, why did she l>Oi g1•t thnn Oll ;}lr. G~!l's authot"ity 'f

The 110::\!E SEf:H.ETAHY: I will make inquiry from ~\'[r. Gall, and I will make it. my husinc,;s to-morrow to sec why she dicl

[Hon. J. C. Peterson.

not get rations. If hon. members op_positt. flllcl that people have been turned down by the department, I will take the necessary action to see who i,, concerned in turning them down. I hope that, whilst we are passing through th• se troublous times, it may not be very long before we shall be able to proYidv the "a vs and means to meet all such cases. The 'hon. member must admit that, to nrovide a liberal scale for every unemployed person throughout the State, 'it woulcl mt•an the extinction of our industries. because wo haYe to get the moneY to find the rations, anrl we can on!:.· get the money out of the industries and the v·.rorkers.

The GoYernment are on the horns of a dilemma in that respect; so let us rather in the Jn.rant.-inH~ try to bring abou,t a rcC'onstruchon of our ~ystern y;:hcreb~,. tnen• y,-il! be les···. unemployment for all om· ~\ orkcrs. rrhc timo is going to be hard >;ithout a doubt: hut in the meantime we :t!'f' prepared tv give the n1ost favm_n·1ble con..-.:idcration to nece-,sitous .J,,,r.::.

:'o.lr. POLLOCK ((}ngory): I am surlJriscd that the ~Iinistcr ba~ takell up tho attituclr he h~~'· Tho hon. memhr l' for Ithaca g-a n~ liinl a ver\· J< finitt• in>tanu~ of a \\ ornan \Yho w1s ln nel'~i of food :1.nd \Yho approacbell t h1• rrlicf depot. He hawed that she was 1 ot- able to get n:licf there, and that she ~-Pnt with hinl to t}u_• Under Secretai',V of

the Home Officc-th.; mo11 in charge of that dPp~-:rtucnt nndoe lllE' IHinistcr. The Uncler f-ie cretary rang np and ordered th!Lt she ~hould get rrdions. I-I c ga vc instructions to the rellei officer to that cifect, but she ha~ not got the1n yet.. \V hat j., 'vrong there?

The TnEASCRER: Thcr" might hn·e been c::ouiething wrong \vlth the applicant.

}lr. POLLOCK: The Tr0,csurer can afford to gTin at anybody who needs food. I cannot find jt in n1v heart to grin at the nced:of anyonP. Tlw- que:;;tion for this House i:-5 whether Pvc>rv won1nn has to ~ro along to the HornP Sc~cretary in order to get a. bite o~ f(~ocl. If a wornan i~ ·without food cnt1rcly. ;, he· not to he entitled to go to the relief dPllOt. state hPr ca~e, and get in1n1ediate relief: If she is not, this House is entitled to know why. ThP l\linistcr >.'lys, '' If you dmg this ,,-oman to me, l will ;cc that ,Jw, does get >onwthing'' v\"hy should she be drag·gecl in"? It is hard enough. m all con:->cience for anv \VOnlan-whntever 1t may f,,_ for a man-to haYc to pocket her pride and ~o and ask for rations 'vHhout haviru.~· to go to a raen1bor o-f Parliament in order that he shall go to the Home St crctary and gPt l1is political patronage so that Rh_c n~ay gt't a bite of food. That is the obJection \\'<~ tn.kc to tho n.tt.itncle of the Government. Tf the l\linister told this House th,tt he was ~roing to gi' e in5tructions to h1s ofi,ict:rs 1 hat nu:.· worn an in particularly n ucessitOU:-' eircunrstnncp•, "ho vi' ited the relief depot. and asked for food to cover her immediate m •)ds .•hould get it without further quest ion. then' would not be any need for the {'OmpL illt.

The Hr'CHET.'Rt FJR ~lT;\;S: Rmnc get their n·lid fro.£1 the totali•.ator.

:\Jr. POLLOCK: I han' never had to go to th0 Sucr0tar~v for }lines for r,~lief, and I flop<' I l1CY0r :::.hall. I havo nC'vcr got an,' tuun(~v to which I vras not entitled; nor haYo VI (~Yer taken nlOllCI from a harbour buartl or· anybody else,· >tlthough I ?avc !1eard rn1nours that so1nc others ha"t.re. So1no member~ haYe had it said of them that they

Supply. [27 AUGUST.] 647

got £40 m· £50 from the Cairns Harbour Board, and. on top of it, said they were <'ntitlec:l to all thEy could get. I have never been in that position yet.

•The flrCRETARY FOR 1:fnn:s : The cap evidently fits.

~\fr. POLLOCK: The hon. gentleman will undersL,nd to whom I am referring. Let me add that the quE'stion of relief is aJtogether beyond the question of personal insult. in which the i'ecrPtary for 11:ines happens to 'pceialisc. Any man in this House \Yho insuits me is going to get the same deliberate in.,ult back without regard to his size or politinl 'igh" l han onl:: to add from tlH~ standpoint of public int0rc~t, irrcsvcctivc of thc im.ults of the Minister or other small fry, which Jrt' not going to turn me from my point, that it ought to be laid down ln· tbc (~on•rnnwnt that people coming along to 1lw d(•nadnlc-Ht. (·..;pcciaJly \YOn1cnj if they Dtc so far gone a,,, to ha.Ye to pocket their pride L HI L -k ior rP!ief rations. shall get P5~i~~anee irnmcdiately. That is little enough to a><k: the Hom0 Sccrctarv has not giv0n u:-- :, .:~nrancc. Althont.ih he doe::. 11ot sa~ ~o din1ctly, he ~FI ys, in effect, that t hi~ TW1ic.'' of prcYeEting llE'Op]c fro1n obtaining- food 1nu, ;_. continue until such a case i-" brought L:~fore> him by a Ine1nbcr of Parlianwnr, \Vl1( n he \\ill ,see rh at the person ·who is ia rnuch dire need and h~~s found it nc·t~'""'lry to <'Idif<t t.he ~upport of a n1P1nber of P;~rliarnc""lt \r111 b~· able to g;~ t a bit of food.

Althou~h 1 hat n1ight not b0 th<' suh~tancc, <:.till i' i~ t.hc <'ffe( t of the reply 111a<1e by ihe ::\iini~ter. and I challenge contradiction. I arglH' that. diff,·rcnt. policy altogether s:wuld be adot•tcd. I argue that auybody \vho approaches thP r0llef departn1cnt in f-hcPr nect·"-~itout- eircum::;t,ancPs should be ilHD1etli,)tf'l:V te}i(•VPd .. and that the 11CCE'',:<.ary fJlte~tion~ .~·hou]cl be> asked onl,y aft.er they havp had 'uf!icient, food to C'arry them along. SurPly to goolhw~s that is not going to in1pon:rish the> State ~

In additioll, tLe lvlinistcr s1id that if we Wl're lo give r0lid rations to all these people ln nocr~s:Sitou~ <~ircum:::tances nnd who have not a bitP of food tu f'at. it would n1ean fresh taxation.

ThP TR.E:if-:.1:Hr n : 1-on ar0 not putting ]t CdlT<:>rtly.

::'.lr. POLLOCK: Th0 hon. g<'ntlcman i' a genius. in pntting things in a ~.vay in \vhich t.he:v were not intended. He excels any n1an in this liou:·<~' in the art of n1isrcprc~wnting a speech. I arn mPre1y eudea.vouring to intPJ.'pret the rpmarks or' tho r.fiuister 'as I hoarrl them. <end. as I lwliev<:. in a truthful way. Thr :MinistPr said that the fpeding of these people 1~ ou1d In can an incrca~c in taxFttion, and I think he added consequent further uncmplo>mcnt. \Vhat is the alternative? Are the Government not prc· pfu·cd to lPYY further Lxation for the pnrpO'<' of keeping the people of Queensland alive? That i~ vrhat it Incanf'. If a por~on is short of food, then there is onl:v ono thing that -will kc0n that! per3on alive. and that ic; food. ~ .. vhat doe's it n1attcr if taxation has to br incre,:.sod in order to keep thPn1 aliYe? \Vhy, this GO\ernment not only promised thftt it would keep them alive, but it promised al"o that it would find work for cverv one of them "nd would give their boys and girls a chance! \Vc arc not asking very much if wo ask that. in face of their failure to

honour their solemn pledges, the:v at least will provide enough mon••y to ·keep the people alive whilst they are sea,rrhing for \VOrk.

The TREASURER : I ea n assure you that we are doing it in a very much better way than was done by the Labour Government.

Mr. POLLOCK : If that is the story of the hon. gentleman, for his own peace of mind, then, I hope he sticks to it; but it is not the truth. Unemployment was never so rampant in Quo,·neland as it is to-day. Has he ever had aired in this Chamber before illu,,tratioHS of pE'ople on the verge of starvation and unable to get food from the relief dc•1ot? "'ot in mv time. The cases of fprnalcs have been aired here to-day. They ,imply cannot get food. \Ve are not now a><king thott the Government should carry out their promise:•-which they ought to have known they coni<l not carry out-when they promised to proYide work for the people of ·,hi~ countr5r, to n1ake the country prosperous, to rc,)torc that rnvsterious. confidence that they spoke about b~for<' the election, and the thousand and one t·hing.o thut they would do to gi"' n the boy and girl a chance. \V e arc DH'rel.v asking that tlw~ giYe thon1 food, hut 7hey will 11ot cvPn do that.

ThE' TRE \StTlU~R : That is not true.

7:lr. POLLOCK: It is true. If th<' Home Sf'r-rc+ n.~ had bePn p·r' 1 llljncJy desi1·ou·~ o£ _.,, •nring this House that people could get food if thrv were in IH'C'cl. he \Yould haYe ·aid that inStructions would bo given straight awa-' to sec that this was done. He did not sav that. He said, in effect, that they had to' submit i.hemselveo to the inquisition. First uf all, the? had to approach the relief depot, ;n:cl then tlw, had to pocket their pride and go to a 1nen1bcr o[ Parliament. Then t lwv had to hl' takt'rt to his office to a wait his~ CIJriVC'HiC'nce, w·hen theY could have an interview with him. and he would then, and only then, inquire into the case. \Vhat a beautiful state of affairs! \Vhat is going to happen to the woman in the meantime who is in wnnt of food? Apparently the c\!Iinister does not care. Can it be said that \YU are Inisrt'preRcnting these c,1scs when we g·ivc ddinite illustrations? The Minister will not gi v<: us the dclinite assurance that he will "'e that these things are dealt with.

:\Ir. G P. BmNES: Yc>n kno'< he d1d that.

J\Ir. POLLOCK : H0 did not do it. He ,aid he "·ould personally inquire into any particular case whieh wets brought under his notice. If the hon. momher for ·warwick ho<l a relative on the vNgo of starvation who was unable to got roli•·f from the relief depot aftc;r going -through the inquisition there-that is what it means-and then had -to anproach g member of Parlian1ent, and aftl'r.wards had to wait in the offire of the Home Secretary to enable him to make iJJquiry, would he think it a fair thing'?

Mr. G. P. BARI\'18: :\fo, but the Minister indicated that ycry general ins true '.ions held been given.

Mr. POLLOCK: Ho did not indicate anything d the sort. Jf lhc Minister had indicated that instructir·ns were given to .,uppl:.' all necessitous c :<c . .; with relief, there· would be no necossitv to complain.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: You know that is not a fact. The Government are spending thousands of pounds to-day in relief.

Mr. Pollock.]

l'OLLOCK: If I hat is the ca,;0, why 1~ l'J~cess:1ry for a. sick \VOcl.an to len.vt· 1 he rdiL'f d\_'pot, t·Pck out a r:nen-" 1J0t of Parlia1n _nt, :::.nd aftcnv "rd.'3- interview the I-Iorne ~~C>cret ,_ry bt fore being· able to get thi:, n 1 icf?

The SPK·i.KER: Order ! The hon. member is llOL in O~ der in repeating his argu1n _n: ti1n8 a11d agai1~.

L!'- .1t n' ],r·•n o.blt

Mr. 2 lUl1d

, 1n "Orry, I\lr. Speaker, to make hon. In:-..:ni

\Ve 1vere told i£ all th-.. 1nonev

.vernmont on St .... ~G Chiilago,·,;. and so

pos:;pssion of the GovernJlrcscnt tin1e. thov woalcl have

to do lot~ of things ':\Tith it. : And don't forget the Y"" a1upi

dcpc.sit in \Vesterd .... 1\ustralia.

Mr. POLLCCK: That io '1 very pc ;uliar '(' tri_J', c·orning frc.l:l the Bon1o S~r:rotary. of all n1,_ n. T'h·3 I-Iorne Secretary. as hon. 1ne1nber for Norm 0:nby sitting Uchlnd the L-·Jwur Govet·n~1c:1t, was respoLsible for mon~ _Urt' iu his electoratp and E.!se-\vln:~ro thu Labour Governn1cnb tlwn an·, 0thct m<· nbcr of the part:;-, and it ill becomes h~ru to :::au that, if he had the money ~vent lY t:tc Labou·~ GovC'rn1nt·;1t, ho \vould have ~Jccn t!bl? to do something with it at th~ preoent tune.

The TRE'(;H-n.J:a.: Don't abuse hiin because lw "' w the light.

:,Ir. POLLOCK: The l{o1ne Secretary wa;; gc,iug on to c:t.' that he had seen the red light, but be nn..~-t ha.vC' s•~cn it, because he <"nddcnlv twisted off r.hat argun1ent. (Inh·rjection~.J

The SPEAKER: Order:

Jl.h. POLLOCK: T rose more particularly to deal 1v·ith the question of relief rationS, aud to ask just what the po,.ition of the Go-rJn1rr1cnt is going to b in. say, January, FPhruary or Mareh next. 'To-dav emplovn1ent ]·-;: at iL nEtxinEll11 in QUeensland. bec_au~.e nw11y sca'Jonal industrie:-J are opcratmg, and all the s•2asonal workers ordinarily employed are now employed. In J anuttry, FPbruary, and March of next year the"e men will bL t hrov:n out of work, and ~vill cons0qnently suffr:r frorn a lack of spt:adJng po-'-r'r.

:11r. l'\DBIO: \Vhv bring that up? \Vhy lnak·· the position v. __.f:•.J than it rr~ally is"?

~lr. POLLOCJ{: f an1 trying to find out Lh'"' jntcnt1ons of lhf_' Gnvt·rnrncnt ;,v}wn the lJosjtion does nri~·e.

~!fr. :0JDL\l0: Bnt it n_rt7 not ari::;e.

::llr. POLLOCK: It will cn"H'.

:.\..:.r. :\PDIO: Dnu't look ahead. Y~ou are a pr-~irni·- 1.-.

TLo SPE_ . .\._lCER. Ordc1·;

:1!r. l'OL LOC'K : Thr'n' j, no que 'lion that Stale is Yer.y la..r~l !v H Srat!' of flcasonal

nur ch~f·f · sc~url,-<.; of E:'n1ploy_mcnt re the sh~ ,.nng, :~.!gar) n1eat. and such 1~~. P indu~tries, 1-vhich only give casual \York m thP When these industric·-cut. uut for vear v;e shall have an .ilr· rc-a~ing an1ouut ~of uncrnploy1nent.

~:1r. ·:-.;nr:Mo: Th0ro ruig~ .. t be a change in -conditio1ld by thf'rL

[ .llr. Pollock.

ll1fl11

1Thc- Go\·-ernnicnt which su"'ports :1re a.~quainted

up by Sir Otto c•d that gcntlc

'lt to take par' to adopt other

r-:Ju.'?in 2~ cost'L It i -. obvious t~rmiroatio,l of c.nployment i!1.dustric .. , tr;gether ,,ith the from the public service and

the ntanbcr, ef unc:nlby the

trying to be truth.Parlian1.Dnt, I am mon ._,·ho ha not,

h.: n six n1onths ·)head this I-Iou-<~. From

of the wool little likeli

un increa ...,L \Y Jol pric;: '1

tl~f'. nr'Ct few rnontl"'''j, if the \text f"'w ye rs-cer

th · next few nonihs-and of th·; Govornrnent's policy

thi:y intend tu do in carrying o~.tt ir ·,trudio;is of Sir Otto l-Jicn1ovor, \\·hat ::;t;:dt' ''ill ()ucr:nsland bo iH in .February, :\larch. ur \pril next'? If at this stage of Q'11. _ 1 ·dand's llistc.n··· tho Covcrnment cannot r>::icY(' th1 diHi,.,nlt}(•s o: the unfortunate ,.,,,,.,c,, who CJrc out of work by giving them ~t ft'('d. \dut rositiorr arc they t?ing to be 111 r xt ,)o.JHLlr;r'". Febrnary, or 1\larch when :hi::' holo(~aust hits us'!. To Jay that this thin&" u Eo-t· goLtg fn eon1c 1s absurd. Only a fool Vi'0:1lcl be blind to the fact th<tt it rnuPt come. and ihat ihc Gov<',·nmont should be prepared for it. The Govc-rnm--·nt should have a definite po!',:y in rerrard to it. 'What is that poiic--'· ta b • '• J.,o thi' a timo in the dfairs of Qu£'ensbnd wh0n we havo no ,man gan1e Pnou,u:h to ~t1,nd up to cutside influences and t3ay that. this. Stat(' is going to bo run in th0 \Ya.v it ou~~:ht to bP run, irrespective of tho ach·j,_,n of out .ide agenf'if's?

}\Jr. :'\nt:;!O. Repudi11tion is what you would ::.ngg·~~~t.

2'\Ir. l'OLLOCK: So fru as QuL'ensl11nd or an·· other Stat(' of Australia is concerned, the qu0stion of repudiation has not yet '"'""'L '\' i111l'r political ]>arty has ever rai•cd th._, que,tion of thr, repudiation of our pnblic debt. and I am sorry that the :\at!onali;;;t Partv. or one of it:s 1nmnbcr~. Bho{dcl br- the G r;t to raise it.

-:\fr. :\I ·DIO : I an1 not raising it.

~lr. VOLL;,;(:T(: Th,' hon. nu::mbcr 1s. J\h. :\1.\X\\TL!. : \\'bat itbout the Trades and dJI)Ul" C·')Uncil of ~. w 8ou1:h \Vales?

an1 not t mu'rnecl with Council of ~cw South

Labour Party. is i:-;; own affans.

li'J 1 ] !OiL

~\lr. l\IAX \\Tl.l.: Ex-Sunator did. and }lt' wa~ a rncll!bl.'r

said 1t party.

}_:r. POLLO{ 11\: '\Yhal e~-Scnator ruatt 'r in t lw at'i'ait·;-; c·2uocn~1and '?

<·unrlL'ci' i:.; .. ffairs without being b~.: ut!y outsic2e party wh ttsOever.

lt frarnes its O\Yll policy, and it does not faYour rc'pudiatioP. Th.; question of :repudia-1 ion has not been r~ise,J except by the :'\ationalist Part~·.

You FO~ PtrKAC INSTRUCTION:

r0pucli ttion jr; 1918.

l27 AUGUST.] Supply. D49

: The hon. gcntlr,rnan i·~ a a1..thoritv on th2.t n1atter l

introd.UcPd by tho pn ~ent _.:P;our ·tl"OI1gly of l'ClJUdiation; the less said by rhe hon. g .ntle

queshon of rc"pudia~ion the h·~ttef In DJ7 en e-, l an1 not going be

tU\\ a;:r fro1n the trend of rny nlat, according to tho · t!w

thP lv. w

rj_l}:c THE.\~_n:;n' ~-: That i6 not COd'CCt. l , . : ·11.~ to r:._'piJ. to tJL~t later.

POLLOCK: The CfUC·tion of repudi .bc··n rais cl. v:hi!e l)uccm .tnd

:31

of 1 the C,onl!lltnnyc:ahh

~1lOU1d ·we lwYc to h' ten ~ .. ).:.l1C ]J('T._OU to whom \-VO

\Y c pcty him his int<er~,t. I lwn. n1crnbcr opposite that.

r:uan £50 undel' a prmnis8ory ertain r,1te of interest and he W...L:::.

int"'rc-,t rcgul.:aly, would he rnan to dicta to as to how he

business'? Not. at alL The ln thi-; couinry Y:hc11, instead

our c,lf_,s to impo1·tcd financiers "-h,,t. W<' shall aml ,hall not do. should be to tell rh0n1 that \VC

run thi:) couutry,· in our O\Vll

, _t.!dault in the· pa:~~ment of Ultcr-_·st, tt1eu It 1s tunc f'nou..;-n tor those people to , tcp in ctnd tc 11 us , .. hat to do.

Mr. Knnw: \Yh~- did your party invito Sir Otto Nicn1cycr to ~\ustralia :'

l\lr. POLLOUK: \Yhal is the '' ·e of being<t t::on_•relgn Stat'""'-\Vhat is th0 use of h Yin[{ parlian1entarv governn1cnt-if the PrcJni1~r i~ to <··)fie back here and tell us that Sir Otto Niemever ha.; told him that we ruust cut down cO-:;ts and that thcv are going to sack public servants? "

1\Ir. NlAXWELL: \Vhat did he tell "vlr. Fen ton?

. ::Vlr. POL~UCK: Sir Utt_o -:\i<'me}cr gave omula.r advJCe to Mr. Scullm 1tlld pmcticallv the· sarne instructions, and the pres:-; of Au~rynl ia is scre:uning itself hoarse because }lr.

"'Scullin will not be st unpedcd into doing-·,·hat Sir Otto Kimneyer desire~. Quite ~L di!Iercnt position from that aclopt0t.! bv tho Tt~easurPr l rrhe flrst thing the PrC.micr <ud when he was told of the proposals of Sir Otto 1\iemeyer wa<, '"Yec, sir, we shall 1~avc to cut clown costs"; a.nd he indicated llun he probablv would have to do it bv retrenchment in" the publio service. IV~ know what is going to come. Who is going to be made to pay in order to find the monev to HlocG this indebtcdnE:~s OV('I··J;as? Is the1·~~ <lllY .proposal to bring aUout uqualitv of .--a cri tier'? The people v;ho arc holclin.c- ~over :±'":200,00J,00fl \Vorth of bonds in thiS:J co1n~ nt:lnity feer~ o£ tnxatlon-an~ th,,·,. to be taX('d in order thctt this country should be put on .. n even keel? No l That would be repudial ion! It ~vould be a shocking thing if i !!ilt rnoJlC'Y \vhrch our bondholder"' are receiving t·very 1nonth in the \Va.~- of jntorcst \Yero to be !axed so that they should be made to Lcar <L share of the burden to".: ardc: kecninorhis country going. - .-.

Thl' S·:cnETARY FOR PulLIC IxsTnucno::-; : You ,. ant repudiation now.

:1Ir. POLLOCK: I do n?t snggost anything of the sort. I suggest t.h1s as a thought for

put into n1v lh'a.d bv - \\r ar,virk ~the othe~·

c~ c;ur> tion of people 1ntcn:st frorn war bonds

taxation bPing a"'kcd to lJUY a portion of

:.:D that this countrv it hu:;;c interest obli-

r POLLOCK: I think it ,,-otdd lJr; a, Ycr,v thing: only it

1 her t~w .. n th 1 > Ld iL 1 ll!'ce

,c JJL~idcration. I t~n1 afra.id thL' • ·ot .l '·repudiation." [t not mean any-thir:; ro n1 . l d j not care v;rhat th·-' Sccre~

Public lutruction remarks about ltiqn: but l put thi:.:; c _t'·O to hon.

l!k'n, ~J€'13: Take the err:'(~ of people who ::.rL' (• ·kin~,-: on v.-ase:, aud ·\-vho are do\YE as

t'ar , they can possibly ';r' on the r0licf 1 :t•' o£ the Uon~nunent oi £3 a wc . .:>k and i' (_' ba~ ic-v a::.;er wjth a 1vife nnd ' four children. The proposal ol tho Govern1nent ~~q donUt ·will ix to redncc- the exemption on jncon1e tax :-;o that the rnan cctrning £2 or £.3 a \Yr~ek will b" forced to pay incon1e tax lo meet these iutcrest demands fro:n over-

To r0;ard this i1npartially, which is rnoro humane. r11Hl fairer policv

to force th~ c people who are obtaining tnoncy free) of taxation as intc·rest frorr1 ·war ICFlllS and other loans to pay " fair share of their intcrf'st, which 'v.i.ll not in any way place them in iinancial t.!ifficultics and wiil still leaYe them enough to live on, or, on the other ha11d, to dra.g it out of the 1nan on £3 a we' k with a ife and three children? Call it rc1~udiation or any other term you like; you will ultimately be compelled, if you arc going to pa;·. the interest and indcbiPdness of Australia, to give .:;orno oon~ :-)idt~ration to thi~ matter.

The :SECHETARY FOR LABOLR ,IND INDUSTRY

intcrjc<:ted .

The SPEAKEn: Order!

1\Ir. POLLOCK: I am not concerned with the stc·p·. that are taken to give elfect to it. 1 ,, that if Sir Otto Niemeyer's remarks arc true. ~nd the GoYcrnment bring along a policy to drag the last p<'lillY out of the poor to meei our interest rtnd loan indebtedness overseas, then the people who profited during the v. ar-the people who made money out of the wctr b;: inveeting their money in "u h.)ncl3-shoult.! he 'nlicd upon to coB-1l'ibPtP. That is a fair proposit~on.

ThC' SECHETAUY FOR L 'lBOl".H A);'D l.l\DUSTRY: Snppocc the CoYf'rnmcnt followed that poliry. v;ould happen -;,vhcn we had to cmn·crt. lo1.ns?

1'0LLOCK: That is what we .rg·ued debate on t.i1c Crown Renwdics A.ct

Bill ye terday, but the :Minister i1-. I-Ie sc~0s it llO'.Y. hO\' ·.3V0r,

it ' to !he poC'kets of his friends. \YP arc arguiL;~ that. if you l'l'pudiato one

you c ~--11 l'L'JI!ldiatn another. I hope e pc·nrl<\ ,,-ill ~-ulun+ rily agree to forgo

u pnnim1 of 1heir iHic•resL

The St:CREHRY FOH L.morn A:.:D I:.:m.:STRY: Suppose thc.v do not?

::VIr. POl.LOCK: If they do not, then the cour~·-:s op0n to the Govcrnmcllt arc either , , -default, tax tiw people who cannot afford

Jlr. PnZlock.l


to pay, or take a little from those who can afford to pay. The hon. member can take his choice of whichever of those policies he likes to pursue.

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR A~D lND"CSTRY: What would follow default?

Mr. POLLOCK: I am not the one who sug.:,osted default. The Government have rushed into a panic because Sir Otto J'\iemcy~~ has pointed out that there may be default· It they are not car<>ful; and they are ~ccepting his instructio11s in regard to roducmg cos~s. If_ the,. arc going- to accept his ms<ructwns ht~rally and to drag the last ),cnny out of these pl·ople, I sa v thev will ha \"f) to giv.; consideration tb ~ the L other IlJatter~'-

Takc. for inst ;.nee. the C\lSG of a 1nan who hao r<;tired fi"Om industry and put £100,000 mto Commow.· •alth 6 per cent. bonds free of 1n: on1c tax.

The SECRETARY FOR LABOl:R .IND TND['STRY: Then"' arc not n1a11.V of thorn.

~1\1 r.~ POLLOCIC: IT i::. C>,'ettinp; an jncorne ot £o,OlJO a year on ·which no Government :·an levy raxatinn. He eannot. be taxed by Hn:;.: GC?vPrnrucnt for payrnent of the moneY :vh1ch 1~ dPf' b:v _An"tralia, \Vlwthor borrovred 111 resp~ ·t of de:~ lcpn1-··'1tal purposes or war expenditntP. :'vlany of these neople inv0sto-d m thosr; bfJJJrls at a Jime wh,;n thousands of _-\u.~tralta:_: wer0 cyiving their livc.s freely for tbcn· COl.UJtrY. The···· people. on the ot·her ha.nd, \'\'l'r0 bc·in-:-~ paid for irlYP-tillO' their ntoncy to as •ist in the pursuit of the ~var. I argue tl~at thcf-ic pcopl0 who arc grtting £6,0_00. ;1:,5.000. £3,000. 0r £2.000 a year arc getting nl<:n' than what is Ilf'C('~:..ar~. t~o enable t~cm

1to hv,'. Tho:v arr' not gN,ing it out

~~l 1nr ustr_:; -th0.v ·are not can~vino· on anv l~l(]ustn--;-and they have the fi1:st ~hargo 0 ;,

t:'e publ1c r~YCl'_ues of rh" State; therefore, 11 ftlly taxatwn IS to be made- if we tax the poorer pc·ople and allow these· others to o-o sent free-we :-t.re taking it from those who cannot afford to pa·,-. and lcftving ·those who can afford to p~y a tz?od deal more than thev r~quJre f~r 1'hP.1r ordrnar~r need~; \vherea~. j'f We tax them. we .ore not takinn· it out of nu"lu..trv b

. 1,~ P ~~RP \STTRER : You a1·o overlooking one f'ac:t .. V\ hen. you start to do that, you put an end to gethng any 1nore loan rr1oncy.

Mr. POLLOCK: The Government have alrca·dy been responsible for two or three repudiator'' measnres which broke contracts I l!-SG th0 ~<~rno argun1e:nt in rega.rd to that: Is that the r-"tson they cannot now get ":;?11·'y? If we arr> to believe Sir Otto NH'mcy<'r. the position could not· be any 1V0l'so .. V{o canr.ot get any more money accord1ng to what ho savs. '

Tbe TnBA,'UR!lR: He has not said that.

Mr. ~OLLOCK: IIc says we have £5,?00_.000 to pa_;: by a certain cla.te, and that t~.e1e Is no ccrtr.unty that tl1ere is any more ' hero that came from.

Tho TREAST:RER: If you rcad 1Vfr. Fenton's speech to:dav, you will find thoro is. and that JlrOilf'V w11I be £11nnd. ~

~tTr. POLLOCK: If that moncv ccn be foUt](~ lii Spite of the contrac(Uftl obligations 1\I:~ Gover.nmrmt h~ve broken, apparently the 1 J ea;;;urcr R argurncnt has no force. 'Ve discu~sed an. arr:angeiYwnt yesterday-I am merely uemg It by way of illustrationwher,b;; the late Government entered into

[Mr. Pollock.

a contract to buv a cNtain mine. ::\ ow thi' Go,-ernment, wit-hout finding the man guilty of crime, arc suing for a return of that rr.oncy, and are -definitely breaking a contract wade by the Executive Council of this State.

The f:EC e!ETARY FOR PUBLIC INSTRUCTION: On a bad consideration.

Mr. POLLOCK: That wonld equally j nstify this party, if returned to power, in n'pudiatlng the purchase of Swift's meat" nJ·ks, on the ground tb.at the purchase was mack to ::;ive a'·istance to the frien<ls of the no,-en,nwnt. It may not be true; but what would that matter? The argument of the eoYL'rlllrlC'llt in C011l1PCtion ,vith the l\!'fungana. ea" is uot true; bui what does that matter': l .nn not 'o Ycrv much concernPd about this question of repu-diation-that is the Governtncufs affair.

ThP 'I'nn.,"CRER: Quite right. Any future c:,,·crmnc~1t could l'epudiat'c the purchase of Swift's meatwork• if it was found that they Wf'l'e di~hOi.EsUy purchased.

:\h. POLLOCK: If we a cl opted any such attitndc 'V(' "'would prove dishonesty lirf't. The hon. g;cnlleman has uot gone to the l'Xil·nt of ptoYing that in connection \Vith 1\Inngana.

I juei ,,·ant to nrld that we can see wherp thi:; State i:-:; drifting. I can forecast fairJ.v". t-H'cur.r-ctely y, lH:Lt J he GoYcrn1ncut's propo:c.ab O:lJ'C' ;:;oin~· to be in order to n1c0t this position. I can ecc hnnclreds of men in the Jmblic nice thrown out of work in orrl<'r l'n rut !l the cost-~ so as to nH'ct Sir Otto ~icnwy,·r'.~ instructions.

~.1_._ {;0\rL_._L\!\TENT :\IE11BER : The:-~ a l'(' llOt jJ~ "rruction:::.

:ur. POLLOCK: The Premier wac verv quiek to ~e·ize upon Sir Otto's rcn1arks and c.cccpt th('nl as inRtructions, \vhcreas the complaint i~ made by the hon. gentleman ;rgaiiPt :\h-. Scullin lhat he will not accept tho,e remarks. \Vh:: all this complaint about .:\Tr. Scullin because he has not rushed into a panic and '·sacked " half the public servants of the Commonwealth? 'The only complaint that tlw Premier has against Mr. Scullin is t Lat he would not give him the lead in ·· saeking '' 11nblic servants.

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INPC:STRY: He has " sacked " more than have been ''sacked'' in Queensland.

Ylr. POLLOCK: That is the hon. gentle· man's statement, but nobodv takes much uotice of him. Hio word is worth nothing. \Ye know him too welL I would like to add that the whole of this prC'sent propaganda is being indulged in for a very dPfinite purpose. The fact that Australia has t·1 meet certain loan commitments and Sir Oito ;\'iemeyer's remarks have been seized npon as ~n excuse for the things which the CloYcrnn1cnt v·ore going to do in any case.

The SECR[TARY FOR LABOUR AND IKDPSTRY: Mr. Sculiin inYited him to come.

;\lr, POLLOCK: If you invite a man to como and gi\e you an idea of the financial position of your Commonwealth, you do not ne cc-.sarily accept his instructions as to how you are going to act.

The SECRETAHY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY : He has giYon no instructions. He has tcnclerocl advice.

:Mr. POLLOCK: Maybe he has not giyen instructions; but I say that his remarks have

Supply. [27 AuausT.j Supply. 651

been used bv this Government rrs an <'Xcuse to do thing,; "in the way of "sacking" public servants and a general deflation that they would have carried out eYen if Sir Otto :'\iiemever had not been here. How was this £750,000 deficit to be made up? Was the hon. gentleman going to tax the people who have 1Yar loan bonds free of taxation? The whole attitude of the Government sho"' that he was not. His desire was and will be to rcduc0 the income tax C>xcmption to make everybody earning any income at all contribute to the cost of paying off these inL'rcst obligations, just as the l~overn1nent <Jrc doing Ender the Income CGnemployment Relief) Tax Act. I am under no illusions about tl1c poliev ?f the Govennnent. I a1n onl:c concerned "that at a time when the seasonal industries are in full operation a sYstc·w of dcfla tion should be set in motion-·' sacking., and general building· up of <l('l)J.'Cssion. so that in January, February, and ;\larch rwxt we ohall haYe not only tho difficulty rau-.ecl b .. the clo·ing down of the ~<~a~ona l industrie:-; and the fact that tl1ev ha.Yo thrown thousand"' out of work in th'e ordln ·ry COlll''P- of e .. ;ents, but that we \vill abo lmn• lo dPal with thP results of the ·: ·' wklng ~' policy of thi~ G-oYCl'Illl18lli:

J_~ca l\~c J the,v 1ven not ~·arne to ~tand l}P and sn. tuat: th~·-., \\ere gorng to run thrrr own house in ihur own way, irrc-5pectiYe of this imported reprc· ntative of British financial lui0rct:-:.

.:'vir. C:OCJPER (Hunur): Before you lcaYo tlF_~ charr, ~d J'. ;-)peakcr, I 1vant to refer to a matter which lmppons to affect m;-.· dector..tc• n~ry cio;c)y~that is, the supply of Plcctnclty 10 the Ipw~nch .·ailway workshops. At present the supply comes from t\"O t..__n·Do-gencrator·., one of 750 kilo, .. :att~ aud naothcr of 1.000 kilo\1att'. The>e gt~ncrntor,. sorn,- little tin1c ago were consiclernbl:.' out of repair; but c1uitc recently both have been rnvound by the sLIT of tho :->ho1;· ., u nd the job 'vas lDO!'t :-;ucccssfuJlv done. 1 t '"as a good pi0cc of wol'k, and ;, g'rcat <.Tf'dit to the elcctricialJS cn1ploycd .at the f'hop:3. Th£"·0 generators ar0 now takiHg all the nccessar-.., ]c. ul. and arc in hett·· r COEdjtion than c~~er ]H"<'Yiouslv. For the Hpl-<·0 ]! of the 'hops it i< nccc,:san to haY(< <OmPthing like 2,000.000 unit n yc-~r.

_ ~o that futuro needs rnay be nwt, there J< n0ccl for further efficiency in t-he plaHt. l n addition io tho plant which is there at the present tin1P, \Yhich vvill Ect as a standbv in case of c~nergoncy, an additional generdtor nncl hollers are needed. 'l'he officers of the dopa rtmont drew up plans and fipccifications for these, and a rccorrlmcndation · wru accepted tha.t ne'1\ plant he purcha.scd. At that point the Ipswich Electric Supply Compan:' came upon the sc••nc, aJ.d offered to suppl:; dcctricity to the workshops at 1.65rl. per unit. The GoYcrnmPnt engaged the well-known firrn of

Capital cost of ncv. plant

Total annual cost~ At present load . . . . "\\-.,.ith 50 per cent. increase At full capacit}

Juliw., Poole, and Gibson, consulting engilleers, Sydney, to report upon the matter. Mr. Julius~I am not sure, but I think he has since been knighted~came to Ipswich and made a most careful investigation into the whole of the plant there. He discussed the problem with the officers of the department, and, after thorough inquiry, submitted a complete report to the department. He prepared c;;timatcs, and, to show how thorough he was, he gave the department the opportunity of four alternati I'C schemes. l--Ie Rhowed in 011e schcnH~ that certain things '\ere necessary. It \Vas necessary to have el,-,ctrical pOIYer dnring ,;,orking hours, and to have ,.team to operate the air-compressors and hydraulic pumps. His scheme covered these things. H c first suggested that an additional generating plant and boilers should be purchased, with present plant as a ,tandby. The second scheme was that new plant -hou!cl be purchased to meet day requirements, lrdving the night requirements to the Ip~wich Electric Supply Company. The third schenw ''·as eo purchase all power for dav and nigJn requirements from the Ipswich Electric Supply Company, wit-h steam fl·orn exi:::.ling boilcn:. for con1lHBssor and pump". The fourth ~·':lJem{' '"as to secure all power for day and uight rc.Jnirenlents fro1J1 t1H Ip~owieh EleC'trlc Supply Company, a.ud to replace the :?te .. 1n1-driven con1pressors <tnd pumps with motor-driven equipment. As :·-oon as i:1H' ~chC:rnf'·~ were placed before the GoYPrnnl ~nt. it \V a~ pointed out hovv risky it was to obtain a euppl: of power from the Ipswich Electric Supply Company, for the l't'..t.'~ll that. ohould the oupply bre_ak down, os it frequently does, the Ipswrch railway ,,·orkshops would practi' 'tlly have to Ce<tbe operations until str .in could be raised in the boilers that were lying cold. We nll know that the raising of steam in boilers that haYo berm rold for· a consjderablc time if', a parti<'ulv rly hip: undertaking. That objection applies particular!} to scheme _No. .:. under which all pow<'r· was to be obtamed from the Ipswich Electric Supply Company, and to a n1inor degree to sche1n0 No. 3" under which power was to be obtained from 1 he company for ckdrical purpose,. with the raising of stPam for co1npre~,, ors a1.:.d pumps. Sir Gcoq.to J ulius pointed out that for the pnr}lO.:'e of thc;;,e ;.;cbenH~· nc'v equipment woulcl b0 rPqnired. and for sc-hemes Nos. 1 and 2 he aclopt,,d c·ertain c><timates. These Psiimatcs were prepared hy the officers of the departn1ent, and chPrJkPd by Sir George .Juliu·'. After checking- them carefully, he said that he agreed wit.h the estimates supplied b' i ho officers of the departmen~. w hrch \H,s n further compliment to the officers at. Ipswich Oll their carefulnm, in supplying l.hE'se esti1natcs. Sir George Jullus made P\~crv allo,,~,uJco in the four schen1cs for additional plant,, for mYing·., for interest and redemption, and summaris·'d the estimates in this way-

No. 1 Scherne.

£ 43,000

12,950 14,650 15,150

Ko. 2 Scheme.

13,445 15,125 15,685

i\o. 3 Scheme.

£ 12,500

20,440 :~6,340 :Jl,940

£ 18,000

Jrh. Cooper.]

Snpp'j. [ASt:lEC\IBLY.] Supply.

Tl1:;;? iignrc'_ shOY\' the total difference hebYccn the cost of the present plant as it is run a.nd tho cost of clectri{;ity, as suppli~Jl by the COLlpany at 1.65d. per unit. t'J be £7,C'J0 per year Sir Gcorgc Juliu;) poi~1tcd out thJ.t in a Little over thr('C Y·~·ar_, the lpslYich rail\,,·ay 1YOrkf'~1ops. by sticking to the prc .-'-·nt BJ"~-hod, ~vould the total C?St of tbe ne .. ~: oqnipm ·nt i~1 ·way _of a, boit"r and generator. I-Je then ed that the net CD"t per unit, including :::;teanr required for purnp3 ar.d cmnprt..-sors, -,v··--

Ku. 1 ! :xo. 2 ! Xo. 3 No. ± Set•. -:-ue. :··:hu.nc. i Scheme. Scheme.

rl. ]·40 110

d. 2.3 :2·1),;

The· so with lpc

lo·td. ';n the

v onld C0:3t; n1or0. and

the u t \\·onld be o\·r:·r ld. pt'r unit rnorc than Ip ·IYich

c'c •t :-. [ think bir Gcorge J ulius in ('Olning to thi_: Jc..;i ·ion, 'vhich 11:, reporr--

., Taking tf~t~ U\"C'l'a~l' lond coudition -that is, \\ith au increas2 of 50 cent. on prt.:!"'' :nt load ...:ondibons-it seem that the purcha"' !JOIWr-thr average <::ost uf such pJ-,Ycr--1,\·onld be of the order of 1.65d. per unit, a figure which, iil our opinion, :.~ quite nnjustifiable fron1 tltf' point of viov: of thC' ,,·orkshops.''

Sir Georgc· ,Juliu.~ n1ade additional corrlntPllt- to the effect Lhat under sirnilar conditions other organisations 111 i\ustralia wculd be prcpar~d to 'npply power at low tension at a cost ruateriallv h: ~s than 1.65d. per unit. although admittedly the load conditions at l1"wich are somewhat peculiar :end are not favourable to the supply of power. Sir Uc.nge .Jnlius \Vent further, and said in his report-

" Fron1 the figures, it is also seen that the greater th,, load on the plant tlw greater i;:. the saving effcctE:d by g" 'tOrati11g your O\f' 11 po\ver

,_ In virw of t.hc fact that in all our figure;:) \Vl' have nwdo arn11le allovvance for ir .. crc·:d, der-rcciatiol1

1 ancl Ina.intcn

anc>·• of aJl llC''\V pL Lt, and in YiC'V also of th2 YCr\· gTL 1 L saving~S to bo effected v\- tl'c iP.:)t~dlntion of yonr 0\Vll power plant a--: 'LDn~patcJ vvith the te,'ln~, l!O\V

otfL·rcd to by the lr"·,vich Supply Con1pany, ll quit\: obvious that tho purcha.se of po\Y< l' '.:ould be rnost uneconomical fron1 tho poiEt of Yit''.\' of rail-

a.v \Vol·kshov operation.·'

The finn \\ vnt on further to 1nakc the fo:lo;ving "',tate~nent:-

" Tho flguru show that t.he s<tving to Le effected uador average load conditions

gonrration of your O\Vll po'.;.::'J: wo:1ld sufficic_;t 1o vvipe out the diJ'crcnce

nt the ;, 1piud t·):-t in lcsJ than Ctr~ ~ .vcan;. There c·nt lr: no quc:.:otion, therefore, that unlc.~:-; Yd',\' n1uch bcticr tcrrn~ c tn b._-: oLtaincd fn>Tl tho I ps•,:i_ h Supply Con1pany the purcha:::.u of poy~:cr from the cmnpa.ny is not, frorn the raihvays point of ·d:.'\,' 1 1vorth s:>rions consideration."

[:lfr. Cuoper.

Fvrt,h ,., c :nlLH'HlS 1vcr-' n1adc to this t'P'c ~t--

'· lt laEst be r:1ncrnbercJ. thr~t in our Potimates for altcrnatiYes (3) and (4) aHo~,;anc( has been ill..J"cl-_ for only 1_.000 k.·-.. -. frc:'C1ULncv-cht~llging npparu.tu3; all u~w · ·o d<,hop. load up to a further 1, OJO k. b2 ir -:;ca.lled at standard voltage

This n1ight, o£ course, J!ll\. -.vhat increase tlF· first cost of

itF;tcdlins additional v;orkshDp n1otor;s ov;in'..{ to the need for 1naln site, but ii the present S) 'tern supply is to l '" o dooted thronf,hout-that is, for the -,.hole 2,CDO k.vv. of 1ww plant-then the c-;tirYlntcd cs-;t P,('~' E~lit ~tnd1Cl' hf':_:es {5l nrH:_ {4) "'ouHt stdl ful" ncr be 111-

_ by charges on t.Le n.dditio11al frcqucEcy-chrrn;.:png appara!,us,

tho additionnl 15 per cod. w" 1ppr:,tatu;o}.

" ... -\<0< n. result of Dur coi~--lJC'ration::; ?f rh~, .vholr· q1w~tion. v·e r_·_c01n:nend t .. JB i-:.~t.~llntion of y~ur O' .n r•Ja..?t 1~~,a,~· Jrd-

:1 .(' ··erH ·all;. "1;· 1th a1tcrnattYC i_ ..... .}.

th.~ oifc:r of i he Ip~wieh Ek..;.tric ~,up ph· ro mpply power to t~e lps'.\·icb rnilw~l~' workshop._. at' 1.65-d. rer un~t \\a" refu:' d. ITa cl lt re:~· :d there . .1. woula tt('_ tw uaking thi.3 nppcnJ to the r~~:casurcr.

There 1s a sequel. Smce tho l7 p.111.} rcnort was made by Iviessrs.

Julius. Poole, alld Gibson,. a offer has been made by t-ho Ipsw1ch

ric Suppl: Cornpany~ 'vhi{'h ~s Ho.'v offe_l~iu;- ,,, "'ppl: c'lectric;t:; to tho. lpswJCh ral.l· \7.n~- we :~:-:.llOp:" at l~d. prr ~tnt. I \Yant to (\i'a\\' Tn·asutcr's attention to the fact ~ Lat the inycsti~a.i ion rnade bJ: Me~srs . . Ju11u~. rook. and Gil>·OD, the Ips~Y]Cf hlectrie Supply Cmnpany ,,_skccl for ..L-?ud. per uni:·, So ~oon a::; <tn a<lvcrse l'cport 1~ ~nade, ii' i~ now proparcd to ~~l!)ply elecb:r~Ity at 1 b. r,ok oi 1: .!. per unn:. In addttwn to t t_;lt, 1 it is prepar0d to erect ~n additio11al for ,\afcty purposr~-that rs, to tn:_,ure th~· contiinultio_n of the. supply t-hould tlH::-re htJ a break rn the rr1a1n now ~ npplyin~· rhl~ po·wc-r. Th~ t~rcction of that inw jn itself y·ill be a cons1dcrable charge to t~H· corup~tn~..-. .. An addi1-ional factor th~:t I thi1.1k (.e Trca:::.urcr wants to iako rnt_o <~{·count i:; ~-llat: th.) ch ... uge of l~d. per utnt is for r·h ctricin· supplied to the boundary of tht' vYork~hop~." Once the Plcctricit:v goes in~o the wotk --h''l'--' it ha' to be broken down ~o t l:e yo!l ;lt; t~1at. can be usfd 1n rhe worK~hop- a.; 1Jw plnnt. there i.s not the standard rbnt }!1 n-, brlng 1,Yhat )s known a~ ,, ;'..n},"'''' (':·, C>nsequently there i' , nt :_·,-.._., .. )]',. ano'c 1n the powPr suppliC'd

frfln tlJt-.. f~O\. l'J'-l:~t....'~1 to thP pG\H'l' ~Uppliod t'~ ,, n;ntur~. r_ro brca.k that power down ., h-:·1rh ~ntnthu1· 15 lH'r rent. of the pcr,H:'r;

::-r thnt. if th, rlrity 1·. chur[cd for at the n1 li1wr rat·-, to \York:-- hops, tlwre -,,ill bo to tL \' Jrl.;.> hops un increase rnorE' than there !lC'i'd b r ,'tH. jll ~~"~ C(1 ~-c of that l'' wp:· 1u r\...•nort Df the chiC>f elcc-

i iu· Ha ii v .. -ay Dvva rhncnt I believe· lL 1:c not seen the report-that JigutT> for th,, supply of elcc'.:·orkshop.o for the year endPd

2.0l:'.l.nDO units, tht\ h1ch 1~ con ,jclprabh:

co1np:-cn_y is asl~;;:;[licl, of CO\lU~L', Lbat in th3t

is rnadt' £1Jr dq1reci:1ti.,n of Thr~:' l1la".~ or n1ay not

1- kno· ·. I v;:ould voillt out

(2'7 _\UGU• r. 653

civ ion

sunph~ 1s takeE L::nn SqPrJY Com1~,:ny, the

,·~'-~Pr' cia-LP, and th': pla.nt \\' ;n si ill dt•prcciai.e. rrlw dcprc

nf bt·ilt1i P~s a!:d pl:lllt will, therefore,

it.

nr'l will stiil have t J be p<cid n1c1'o f-·.ct th t the buildir:;s in which

ar( hou · ·l is not. bl1 i ug ~.J.st:d does ·dcprC'rjation it r 1 tll2r h '9tcns

pn1 £on by th · s cornpan:v ~t ··111 to ln cxc2s. of the price for

n1anufacturcd in the ·whic:,l po;vcr can Ip~· ich '·<ork3hop~.

The c.ITic<'· 3 thf'rc. or, at an~ rate, those v ho · to deaf tYith th.J eo -t of the

suppl,v, ha vc proved ihr 10 ·.'( 1ves to d!iciont" and that is proved by the st,1tc

rnent rnade b~7 the Hrrn of l.\fossr;;. Julius, Poole, and Cibson-that they found their c&timatcs to b,, correct. There is also the fuct that tbc~ Incchrrnic"J there are capable 1nen, am! that is [Jrovc•l by realon of the fact that th<:·y hav-e r: wound ~hJ big generators, which ar>:' no·n "·orkinsr efiiciently, either of then1 being cnprlbk of carr.~·ing on the supply as it stands at l"' sPnt for months at a t'ime. The chief ekctrical oflicer says they are in a better condition than they haYe E:ver been, and, \vith capable rnochanics superYised by ca.pahJc ofiiccrs, they can give a cheaper suppl: than i:hn department can get frorn othereo: ;;nd the Sccretarv for Railwavs will lH 'floinJ a geicvoLts rOng to the R"ailway Dc;Jurtmcnt of Queensland and he will on!· b··, rnakii1g tho costs gr,.:atcr if he changes ov0r at this iinw. Ho will run the risk of a brcakdo\\:n ancl a ::toppage of his wo1~ks for d11ys, and, in addition, he will run the 1·l~k of le ing control of the thing so necesr uy for the control of the work·, and that is the f'G',.'cr. \Ve a:::k hirn earn0stly before thi,, collir, et. !s co_cij1leted-I believe .·it is ~ot Y'~t C'O.i11p: :,- cr.·~to r.pYe greater cons1derat1on -LJ Sir C2~n-{e J1llius's report., and that is that the'" workshops can best bo eervod b) suppJ,~,ing their o\vn po\Yer. EvC'n at tho redctcr'd price given by the Ipswich Electric Supply Com>laPc' the corc1prrny cannot supply power at a cheaper rat·J thun it can be nlanE.fa.('tured in the Ips'\vich \Yorkshcps; and I appeal to the 2\linistc-r to give this matL~r the grc'tt< ·~t consideration before niJvthing further is done. ...

The rrHEASVRER (lion. \V. II. B:1rnes, H"!fr.ncrc'l): At this stage I \Vould like to ronlv briefly to the hon. member for Hcrbert, n'!ore p .. nticul:' rly in connt ctirn \viLh two Irl" vv-hich, I E"LY, in tho interests of thi1 great et' he, dr ·g~:,ccl right into the dt"it. Fir .t, let mo say that l10 introc1nccd the :narnc cf Sir Otto I\ie>nlCycr into the discussion here h-duy.

Mr. PEAs:-: .Why not?

The TREAS"CRER: I am not aeking •• \\Thy not?" for oiH. momo:at. I an1 going to ird··odnr-."' bim, too; bnt. as an hrn. 1nen1-bcr sitting on th~- frot1t Opposition bonch, he ought to have rcn1cE1brred that at least there a1·C d(~ccnric.;; to be observt:d in connection ,v!th tho cr1ticl m of a gentleman tvho has b8cn invitPll to .c\ustralia-by whom? By Mr. Bruc'c? Not by 1Ir. Bruce, but by the Scullin Government. I take it that the hon. ffi('mbcr, when ~peaking, was making overtlll''"' io those poopln who recently met in Sydney, and to whom ]\;fr. Lang has become a con;'erl. I want to sav moet distinctly that Sir Otto Nicmeyer ca1ne to Australia at the im·itation of the Federal Government, and in doing so he came to perform a dis-

i: r:t. f'.~l'Yll U> this gl't..'i:!t. CorrnnOlHYCalth of .\ustr,· lirr.

he. n saicl th:J.t l1c C<U11e out reprer nk of ErL.land. He is a direc

t· ·1cl, of tftc Bank of England; t~ tell ihe Hon e that the Bank

not interested to the extent c in comcction with the loan 1: r1:1 \ .:> o ,.., by .\ustl· ·li:1. So far as is.

" to tl,c public, the• Bank of England is ~et::~ in Anstralian loans, because

arc tV>J other banks which arc prillW intere- ,L :d, onE' of '"Lich is the great Cornmorn. ealth Bank. rrht~re are millions (;f o-,•-ing to tho Cxnrnon-.-;-ealth Bank u1 There is .._,l.Aher institution, but not the E ~:lk of Fn?·land, to whom .... 1\..us· n(lli· n Govt'i n1nPn~ arC'- (lceply indebted v t this tin!'.. Ins tea ·l of honouring some .. o11e \vho c:tnu' to us 'v~1th l1is st :f£ by invit.a~ tion, and 1rho f1rt, ·s, '" I n111 going to help You to get upon a road which will finally '!n·in, · bJck to a condjt.ion which will b~ "-a con ~lition which will be in the inter~.. of thi~ grcRt ~,tate-the hon. nlCLlher for I-lGrbert bclitt!t.'d hirn.

~\ 1r. PK\SL; l criticised him.

Tl. THEASLRER: Tho hon. rnernbcr Le-iitticd him, and one felt a feeling of shame ~1t tho hon. racmbcr's l'lll1arks.

~.11·. If.\l\U"'·x : 'l'he Premier referred to hj1n o •· Uncle Otto.''

The TREA;:,UTIEH: I do not know what tht~ !)rcinlt'r rnay haYe : uid, but I know thHt the 11rc:nier L:ts ihe hight-:,t opinion of Sir Otto. Th.-.; hon. n1l'rnbcr for Herbert did som0L,ing e1 <-I do not rnind a bit \ 1"' refers to nlD pl'r.sonally, as any

,n -corning frorn the hon. Hlen1ber is a!~v:-ys r_'ganlcd LJ nw an extrcrne conl-l J·nwnt---·

l\li·. You will -::et plcnt~, of comI 0c1n v :'UI'O you.

'1.~1•..: THE.\SUl-(Ell; But, he took a mean r:_d ;·aut:xgc of a :rr..1an who sits hero and who directs the ,tffairs of this party, \Vho aro loyally behind him.

2'.1r. PEASE : Why is he not here to-day?

The TREASUREH: I am just going to answer the hon. mcntbr _c-I ·did llot interject while h0 wns speaking. I rcCJnomber the hon. mumbcr himself being. ab,ent last ~c:s~ion a good deal fro1n this 1Iouse.

l\J.l·. PEASE 1 ~s:.; to po_._. ne er aS:h nt· J R "-011.

(_!£ crl! .. rt): 1~\Ir .. Speaker, I or or(ic:-. Tnilt Is wrong. I rn:; -::lf fi·ojn Parliament ~:1st

~ rr. l(I.HH: It \YUS the year before la~t, Lcforc the :fi'cdoHd eLuion.

Thr• TTIE . .\S1JHEE. (lion. \V. H. Barn~~~, HT?,tnvm): The hon. E1en1bcr durin:." the Federal election, at any rate, \Vas absent a c.>nsidci'aLlc tirno frorn the 1-louse with somo of. bis p>"rty in the ::\'crth. Tho Pr01nicr rcprcsnnts an in1portant ; gricultnn1l con'titnency in wh'ch a show is being hold, and he is a·-,kf d. to attend it. I Eay he did his duty in gcing there. \Tct, in his ab~encc, the hon. ml'mbcr for Hcrbcrt'is mean enough to attack a man who is working himself t::> de.1th in the interc,ts of this great country. (Opposition dis,cnt.) He is working hirnsclf in a way which is corn1ncnd~ng itself ab:;o]utelv to ever: member of his part>. I \vou~ld bo Incrrn and qn1te nnv;orthy of the position I occupy if I did r:ot stand by my chief, who is av;ay to-night.

Hon. TY. II. Barnes.]

654 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Sttpply.

Anotlwr comnwut was made, I think by the hon. momb,lr for Gregory, about a £5,000,000 loan. I want to put the Cam· mittee quite right with regard to that £5_,00(),000 loan, which Mr. Fenton says ;, gomg to be renewed. The very document to which exception has been taken by the hon. member for Herbert was signed by the .FcJeral Government.

Mr. PEciSE: 'What document?

The TREASURER : A document which the States decided wa" necessary in tho intFtests of ~\ustralia. It was not a rr1anda· 1ory docurnent .. hut a docmnent ,-vhich meant cohesion a 'lu the ,;ctti ng together of the Con1n1onweulth and the States in order to tackle a big difncult,-; and Mr. Scullin was one who led tho WJY in signing it. And yet we are told that our· Premier did not do tho right_ thing ! l wish I was in a position to d1sclosp to this House what Sir Robert Gibson, the chairman of directors of thu CommonwealtJ, Bank, said. (Opposition laughter.) Hon. members opposite know that there are decisions-no one knows it bet~er than the _Leader of the Oppositionwhich are son1cbme~ marked "confidential" and which cannot be disdo·ed. Let ~e say, however, thr,t, if it had not been fot the combination between the Commonwealth and the States, that. £5,()000 000 which 1 believe now is going to be fo~nd, happily, would not have been found, and Australia would have defaulted.

An OPPOSITION l'.:lEmBER : What rot !

The TREAS17RER: \Vhat member of this House would like to know that fair Australia had defaulted?

_ Another comment was made about expenditure. I want t<:> say here as emphatic--ally as I_ can that the best thing the States can do Is to l~usband their expenditure. They must do It. \Ve have been building on foundation, which have not been ricrht and whether we like it or not, we hav~ t~ turr; around and to a great extent live within ourseh-es. We shall ·ue a happier and a better people for it, so it is well that we s)wuld do it. . We ha V" had a deficit in this l::;tate,, but 1t 1,; the lowest deficit of any of the States of the Commonwealth (Loud OppositiOn laughter.)

'l'hc·re is no need to make anv further comment than to say that the G~vernment are ~ut to do what is right in the interests ;>f thts gr.eat State, and that they will do it. rhe;; \;Ill !JOt do Ull} Side-tracking Or am·. tlnng rhat >Yotlld b,• hurtful to this crre~t cottrltl'.)~. ::\0 1!1atter ·what it costs tllem, they •.nil do their duty, and they are beginli,Ing a~ the top, and, lf necessary, going to tne _bonmr~_. l shall have the opportunity later on or spe dcmg further, so at pre 'Cnt l shall '·'Y 110 ll' >re.

, Question;-" That the Speaker do now lea.-c tno ehau: '--put and passed.

C'01l}!ITTEE.

(.1lr. Itobui.!. B•tBI Toou;oombu, in the chair.)

The TREASL'RER (Hon. W. H Barnes nrynnum): I beg to lllOve- . "

"_That th< <e be granted to His MaJ est:· on account, for the service of the :year 1930-31. i1 further sum 11ot exceedmg £3.3i~J,v;"J tmyards -defraying th0 expc;nso" uf llle varwus departments and serviCes of the State.''

[Hon. 1Y. II. Barnes.

Thi;:; an1ounr t-; Inade up as

On Revenue Account On Trust Funds Account On Loan Fund Account

follows:-£

2.000,000 1,000,000

300,000

Th -t total compares with an amount of £3.500.000 which was asked for on accmmt of 1930-31 in the final Appropriation Bill last year. n will be noticed that the biggest shrinkage is in connection with the Loan Fund Account. The amount now asked for i., ju,t half of what was asked for prm·iously. That is keeping in line with the pron1isp.~ tnade 111 connection \vith loan e·- Jwnditure.

T want 1'0'~' tn take the opportunity of rl·ferring to the financial position, more parr;cularl,- to the 1'rerni0rs' C:onfc'rence and the nH~.~t ing: of tl1e Loan Council held recently. l conccin' it to be my duty to refer to these nlattPrs. 'The Pr£'lniPrs' ConferC'nce and the Loan Council meeting were the most important meetings e.-er held between the Pn~rr1ier~ and 'rreasurers of the Cominonwealth and the States. and the most important meetings held .;ince the formation oi the Commonwealih. I take it that everyone here to-night realises the importance of thno meetings' to Australia; and I take it thar there is no Australian who does not deeply regret the pres<>nt financial position. I want to take the high stand of saying that thf' problem is bigger than party. It is btg-ger than party ;;n this side of the Ch-.ambc,·, aud it should be bigger than party on the other side. Hon. members opposite bhoulcl be prepared to rise abo.-c questions pertaining to party when considering this important problem. \Ve are face to face with Yety grave difliculties in this State and in the Commonwealth. \V hat is the position'!

OPPOSITION ME~IBERS interjecting,

The CTIA1R:\1AN: Order! I desire to call the attention of hon. members on my left to the fact that the Treasurer is making a most in1portant statement. I ask them t·o appreciate their position as representatives of the people in this Chamber, and allow the Treasurer to proceed without interruption.

The TREASURER: I think that this Comnrittee should know that the accounts of the Sta te.o generally are terribly overdrawn. A lDt of the loan rnonev that has been raised ha; not been raised fo.r the purpose of immediate expenditure, but rather to pay off the o\ r;rdrafts that have accumulated in connection ,v}th prt:'lious prornjses. \Vhilst, comparai iYely speaking·, the overdrafts may bo <maller in Australia than they are in London -in London they are .-cry heavy indeedthe: Commonwealth Government are very gTc•at'ly overdrawn in loan account in tho old country. There is another banking institution besides the Commonwealth Bank v;hcre the amount overdrawn is very great indpcd. lf the Committee must know. one of the banks not so very long ·ago intimated t!"tt' lhc account should be reduced b<'Cause i; conld not carry the load that it was being rrskcd to <-arrv. \Vere not tho members of the Loan Cou,;cil face to face with important maltf'rs in the interests of Australia which tlw_v had to tackle? Let me s--ay, they did tack]<' ihc>m. and tlwy tackled them in real ( ·1rnest.

Supply. [27 AuGUST.] Supply. 6i"i5

Let 111e ·draw attentjon to another rnatter. ,\Ionr"v in London is unobtainable at the presolrt time Let me qualify that.

}lr. \V. FoRGu; SMITH: You mean new !lloncy ·~

The THK\SGRER: Yes; hut it is aho diflicult to oltain money for the redemption of t-xistiJJc; loa~1s. I have already indicated ill what [ said prH·iously to-day that, as a result of a recent arrangement made at the Loan Couueil mcetirw. I belicno it will be po<;;ible to ra.iso thP neco~::;ary an1ount to proYide for the £5.000.000 'l'rcasury bills falling duo on 1st SoptNnhcr. Our stocks are ll)wer than those of .anv oth,·r Dominion. Is that sonwthin~~ of whjCh we can feel proud'! Is thn.t somNhing in connection with which \'I'C :-;hou1d sa". ·· It do£'3 not n1atter"? I !,·n-c he~trcl 1;cople talk as if the monetary in:.:titut-ious did not connt at a juncture like rhi I sav they do count; and I shall have ..-0rnething ~ n1orC to say on those lines as I proceed. They do count, and they have a big- bearing on the price of n1aturing loans. :\ ustralian stocks of the Yalue of £100 a little wh;le ago were quoted at £89.

Mr. "\>V. FORGAK S""IITH: Some of them wont lower than that.

The 'l'Rl~ASURER: That is so, but they have improYed a little lately.

Mr. W. FORGAN SMITH: What do you attribute that to?

The TREASURER: I attribute the depre-ciation of Australian stocks to the fact that people overseas have lost confidence in Aus,tra,lia because we have OYer-borrowed and misspent; and, in addition to that, a lot of woney which previously was put in such stocks has been put into other undertakings.

Mr. PoLLOCK: If you remember, you were going to restore confidence.

The TREASURER: \Ve have rpstored confidence. (Opposition laughter.) We have not only restored confidence, but are going to continue to restore confidence. "\>V e will put this State on an even keel. In my opinion, it will be th" first State in Australia to right itself, and people will say, '' 'l'hat is the Sta,te to go to, because it has a ~ane and sound Government."

This year Commonwealth and Stale loans O:mounting to £42,000,000 are maturing. Later I propose to show that there should be contributions from those who hold stock.: but, when you are e-h ut out of the old market, you will be thrown on the local market, and some hon. members on the other sido have said that they would clip the wing~ of our people who invest in our sioc:{s. I bay that all new stock should carry taxation; but at this stage, ·when the couutry is dependent on these people-they are not all big peoplP-some are very small poople-i t is not right that the question of repudiation should be raised, as it has been to-d,n. I do not want to remind hon. memb.:rs ;,pposite that they were aBsociated with repudiation a fc\'r years ago.

]\1r. PoLr"OCK: That idea was borrowed from vonr brother, the hon. member fol' Warwi~k.

'l'he TREASURER: I speak of 1920 and 1924. 'fhe Leader of the Opposition, who was then Secretary for Public ·works in the Labour GoYernment, speaking on 6th August,

1924, in relation to th·~ visit to London of Mr. Theodore, the then Premier, said-

" I say emphatically that the Country Party's definite objective, if they h_ad attained the power, was to rcpral t.he Land Act, inm·ease the terms of leases, and repay the amount of money to which I have alluded. I haYc proved in this How<e before that that, without doubt, w;,s their ,cJe!inite policy. It has been urged by eertain critics outside. and the v_ 1in1on has been C'XlJre·\.,ed by a n1ember on this side of the House. that the Premier would have been better advised had 110 arrangements been mudP at all, and that ho should haye come back to Que,..nsl" ud and gone to the country oil the issue."

\VhRt "M the i"3ue? i\>Ir. Theodore, before goi1,g to London, mid that he would not accept the t"l'ms offered by the linaneiers there; but when he weut there he accepted their tenm. (Opposition dissent.) The L8ader of the Opposition on that occasion abo said-

" If tha.t situation had occurred, we know what would have been the position in Queensland. If the Government had not been able to convert those loans, it would have meant far-reaching difficulties, amounting to financial chaos, in Queensland. In addition, it would also have meant that the Government would have had no loans funds whatever."

Mr. IV. FoRGAN SMITH: It is a good thing to know that you rBad my speeches. You will find you will get a lot of mental stimulus from doing so.

[7.30 p.m.J

The TREASURER: There is no doubt I would find a lot of mental stimulus, and the chances are that I would find a Mr. Facingboth-ways if I wanted a lesson in that regard.

The present LeaJer of the Opposition also ,aid in 1924-

., If the Government had not been able to co1wert those loans, it would have meant far-reaching difficulties, amounting to financial chaos iu Queensland. In addition. it would also have meant that the Government would have had no loan funds whatever. We would have had no loan funds to carry on public works, and there would have been a considerable «mount of unemployment in the country. The position as I see it is perfectlv clear -that, oo long as GoYernmcnts borrow n1oney oYerse:as, and so long as we are a debtor country, we shall be required to pay the price for that money which those "ho lend it are able to put upon it."

Mr. IY. FORG.\N S)!ITII : ·what is >nong with that;

The TREA S C'RI<;R : I will tell the hon. member •··hat is wrong with it. Let me quote from i\1t·. Theodore's policy speech of April. 1923-

" It is known that the moneved interesto which are the driving for~e behind all a.nti-Labonr political moYements will move Heaven and earth to defeat the Labour Government. The origin of every dubious stratagem against Labour can be traced directly to this mvsterious ' monev power.''' .. ..

Hon. W. H. Barnes.}.

[ASSEl\IBL Y.] Supply.

1920 La.hnar pas~,,~d t1~c u R.~pudiation )J ~dr. Th-~odorc subsequently went to

Brit ;,in for a loan, but v,-C~~s rrfnf-cd. l-Ie won the followinG cle ·tion on the crv of "thB ~.oYercign rights of the State.; ar .~1 no dictntjon by the n1orky-b.a~'- " JTollovvin g th" C:'le; tio , h~: v. :IJ< to Britain, and. on hi0 return in :\l,,_.y, 192-+, it discoveru] thnt }~o had not only r1.grc· :cl to n pudia-tiun of the ·' E~·-mdiation Act. - but had given to the big }3riti~h pa~•-oral ron1pnnie1:! ~111 agT0ernc'<:Jt not to inrrc.' -.;c their rent.:; Lt all during tlH· tcrrn of their lcu.s~s. Four hundred Bnd twentv-fiyo of these lca~~e8, tot·dlir~g over BO.OJO,O.·) acr..::·' 1 expire betwe0n 10'5 and 19-c. In aL .wcr to a qu••tion on 16th September, 192,~, :vir. McConrtr:ck stated that ;he fJ .. rno concession -......-ould not be granh:d to the grazing se1ectm_·s who had been jmilarl:: a£Eected by the "P..,cpud~ation Act."

In August! 1922, in a p~_;riod of depression far le" serious than tho present, the L•bour Go~crnment petiti?ned the ~\rbitration C:ourt a.L·J. secured a rC'aucilon of 5..,. per '"eeK 1n th: wage_, of public ~ervants. "'Yet we have been criticised bet a use, follo~'Ting onr rJOlky of ;-,_rbi tration, we left the 1natter to the Indu-,+-ri, 1 Court!

H.t:Yertin~~ to th0 flnancial position, I vvant to otress tlnt thi.s :ear £42,000,000 has to be r-~if'ed in Austraiia, m1cl th;~t next :yenr E -~J:OOO,COO •.vill require to be raised. \Yhat has bP<-n th0 effect of borl'O\" i 1 '.g in A nstralia? I have been criticised in the past in connertion vvith udyocating borrowing over-3-ca~. Locauso it has 1'ocn sa-id in somo dire :!ions, ar;d perhaps very h·nthfully, that the n1oncv that i3 loan".! v;ithin the ,Comrnoawc.llth goP~ to the rr~idcnts of tho Com-1110l11Y·ea1th. DuL \ hat .re the facts'? That c.n b' cvcrdonP, nd we have bcf'n overdoing it. Let n1c put to the Committee this ph a:-,) July borrcr\vings in connec-Uon vvith tho ealth-that 11eariy £3,000,00J ·w.:1s withdrawn fron1 tho savi:rQ's banks of ::\ew South \Vales. \Vhat forT One ca·1 ,rc3.dilY u:~derstand the i·aking of 1noncy (',trlljn~; 4 per C(;nt. from one pocket and putting it intu another pocket 1vhi• h give'i- a rctur11 of 6 pe-r cent. \Ve all kno\v how closely associab._d tl-ie sayings banks are with the development of a cnmtry. Th<1t is wh<ct h:ts hneYl hnpp<.~ning. I ,·_aiel a fo\v rnjnutcs ago that there -..:v-ere sub ·-tantlal overdrafts in Londo~_,. J .. s a n1atter of fact, the Com.rnon'"'""lth has overdrafts to tho extent of £18,000,000 Hl the o}d COUlltru'.

Let mo too. that our credit is at a vcr' low "\s l rv;ntcd out bdore, it is low'Cr than that of any other Dorr1inion. These resolutions \\ere carrie-d at the Prt .niers' ronf(:rencc and the Loan Council t ,_. lfu'Cl~C( . Sorneone suggc 'ted that they \' ,1ictatt•c1. :\Jay I i1...1prc.s3 upon hon.

!hat thcv Lu't realise thot tho r ':'1ition Of An9tral:ia \vas in such

<l \yer'.- sucl condition tbn.t it \\i15 essential th-;;_t. (~-..· rnan should be there, not as a >~atic:na a Country Party rncrnber, or a Lahuuc mcml.Fr, but ehoulcl b- there , ; a (·it!zen of the <:;r< at ComrnoLwealth to work out as fn.r as jt was pOf'3ible tho finaneial salvation of the Cotnn1onv.'calth and the Sta tt•s. \V as not that a big thing? One oi the df'Cisions come to was that the budgets rnust be balanced.

Mr. PoLLOrK: \',~o only disagree as to the methods of doing that.

[Hon. 1Y. II. Barnes.

T!1c TRE _Sl~REll: Xo rnan ",·ould get on his ft-t t to-night and say it is going to b0 an ca"y nwttrr to bviunc,J tLe bud;--;cts.

~,Ir. \Y. Fonn 1,.~.;- S1T1TH: I-Iow are you going i) <.~0 it?

TEE\ SUEER : I shall tell the hon. later on \vhen rnJkin:; ms Budget

Statrn1e:r;t, rrhc hon. ll1Cmbcr is seeking t.J get infor_nrrtion which probab!v would ~!lrpri~l' hi:•1. if he knew, and it 1v,Ju1d uppe~d 10 his h:!S hcart-1 bdicvc he ht:s a big hc:.trt-that ihe Go\·~'rlnn~;nt aro prc 1.-"eding

I ines thn t a re entirely r,ati- factory. ''"ill kurn-, in gnoc1 thne. Ono of the

J'L'SOhitions crtrried at t.hat conference, ,,,o far ;_ 3 Qnecnsl· n_J. is concerned, was that v;.,___, had

a tl cxp0 •. Jitnre of £2,6GO.O:JO on ;-\et n1nt. and that ,, a, r0ducod by

b,:-}ieving! as every n1cn1ber of that bel ieycd, that wo were .'\.ustralians

we hnr1 to come together as Au"indians in the i11tcrcsts of what was necesF:trv. The budvch are going to be balanc~d_::_ no·; b:v tho blue pencil, but by tho honest convic-tio:r;s of the 'rro~surer:s and tho ... ~ ac··oci atr d with them th:tt the anticip""tcd r0vcnuc •vi1l l:J realised. It jg going to be very difiicul t for this re:1son : There is no dnu!Jt incOIYJC' tax has been falling off, ancl 1" f;=tlling off. Rail· .Tay rccejpts are still f"!ling off, <end it is cxccedingk di!licult to know hov.r to balan·''~~ sornc of the accounts; lnt y;c aro out to do it..

T v·nnt to rnakc a c1n1n1ent which I have a r1~~ht to rnake in connection 1vith J matter \vhirh was rai ~~~d h.Y tho hon. member for Gre,rory, \Yho askc,d if it w::-·-; not po.:;sible r , i£ we could not tax some of i·ho holders n: that were not at present taxed.

l!l

to sac hero to-r1ight that one member com_r :unitv of the citv of Br:isbanH

" 1ne '"t1d u 11id. " I hsc 3

rtlv tax 1~~;1~; ;:: c\\1-:,~ldJ b~~ 'tax~·r1 • so i'.at I 1118'.'" contribut.._~

time of rH 2d." ~

::\Ir. FOLLOCK: What a lon,,ly figure he will be:

The TREAS1JH.ER: I m2,ke bold tu s1y that thn hon. n1crnber for Grcgory \vill not ioin him. MaY I draw attention to the Pc,sition as a result o£ thE.· conference.

i\.11 n rrangf·rnent has b::;en come to th.1t the. ,hall be no appeal for borro .-ed moncv 111 th_ oJd country during the prcsont year~ 111 other \vord~\ <1ny n1oney that \VC >vanL 1 to bo raf,,f J in \u.:.trali-1. That is onn of the cor!ditions v.-hich have been agrec·d t(). There i5 to 1~,J no lo:-r n ovf"'rse;.s; and th· n; i.; to 1--Je no t.ppro· al given to DC\"-~

or'-s th:~t will r1ot be rr'Drodnctivc v,-ithjn a, r~~P"Onable neriod. Yv~h-at has been tlJ" rosit-iou in r(~~ard to our public ~:arks? It is .,ca1·c~Jy nc<f!cssary for me to rcn1ind hon. n1cm 1

)( rs oppo~it'~ about that. bccaus~! I h~•.-c a YCTy vi' id rc-~ollcction thr:t som·ho\Y ~·~-~ other and in t:ome wa:v ~orne of nur 1oan rno.:lOy was put into St ;te fltation·_; anJ i1.to cnterpri;,es whjch produced ::carl:e1,;." ;:;_n:,r interest v,-hatever. I buve a very ,-ivid recollection. too. th:--_t n1onc'.r \vas t'1kcn frorn lo1.n to pay tbo intcrr,s't in or11er Lo squa.rr accounts jn that particular way. I Eav that is ono of the rea:,ons vvhv \VG hnd crirsc'lvcs in the position we are ~n to-day. Irrtcrcst has to be ]nid into a special account at the Commonwealth Bank; and we have to suppiy a monthly summary of accounts.

The question arises as to what is going to be done. We have to cut down costs.

Supply. [27 AUGUST.] 657

.. bother we iike it or not. There is no doubt wo have to remedy everything that is hindering advancement. \Ve have to cut down expenses right from the top; and this party ,,,·ill cut at the top. At any rate, the job will he tackled. Have we not already given evidence of our intentions in that direction? Hon. members have coninbnted by the cut made in their salaries last session.

\Ve want co-operation; and one of the reason"' why we haye not been able to secure co-operation in the past has been bec:-me hon. membc•rs lik<> the hon. member for HPrhc.-,rt have rouu,tln1C'"' put into the minclc· of the workers the idea that CYC'l'Y

man who employs others is hostile to the worker, instead of getting both parties togethc· to a·' ist in the development of the State.

Mr. PEASE: You would not give us infor· 111ation.

'l'hc TEE AS URER : I say we must cooperate, and there must be a pulling together in the affairs which at present require our attention. EvN:-thing must be Jone to encourage industry. There has been too much of a tendency for people to come into the cities. 'fho Government arc going to encourage the de-telopment of our land and to as .. iot in getting people into the country; and by that rneans vn~ are going to have a population which will work solidly for the betterment of Queensland.

There is another thing that must be done. This party stands for pri • ate enterprise; but in the past every effort has been made by hon. members opposite; to block private enterprise. If private enterprise goes in the direction of erecting bridges even with tolls. pro,-iclcd that the country is safeguarded, I shall ,-ate strongly for it, bPcause I believe it is ossenti al that o should do everything nL this juncture to encourage people with nwne~· to eome and assi:3t in its lieveloprr1cnt.

lVIr. PF;>\RE: -You vvon't have any people to use those bridges if they go into the country.

Tho TRBASURER: The hon. member who interjects wili never go into the country to clo hard work-he "ill always go across the b,;,Jc: . Is it not a .. fact th:tt we have not li ,eJ v.-ithin our mcanc, and that we have to karn the lcscou that we ha>~ to do so? It H'011JS to rnc that in connection with so1ne of what \\-c tnay c<dl the acccsso1'ics of life peop!G h-c.-c g-ot thc,,,·olves bound hand and fc' t ,,-ith ckbt'. whereas it would have been vcr~ ,,mch better for thcm1 if thcv h"d forgone th~ ach-,ni-o;;cs the: gained by getting into dcb', and tlms eaYed thcmsel~·es from e._;bnrr~"tc1cnt. Thoro is no question that one of the evils of the day has resulted from a too ready di,,position to buy what we are l·t't in a po:-:ition to pay for. I srrv that most uf ns h.a~·e lived beyond C'nr n1ea.nS.

'Ne should spend lr·ss on pleasure. I have iH :n1 crlticiscd bec<1U~e I spOke against bowls on Wed'lcsday. I s>ty cmphaticitlly that it i::. not fair for a n1astcr t·o ask his men to work while h8 goes himself and plays bowls on \Ycdne,,day. He should show his people tbat he Is determined to assist in the building up of his business. We must accept our responsibilities, and all of us should share in the ·difficulties.

Hon. members opposite have refened to interest charges. Before the last £10,000,000 loan was floated, the Govc>rnment communicated with the then Treasurer of the -Com-

1930-2 T

m on wealth, l\lr. Theodore, and suggested that tho rato of 1nt~r0st should be brought down, because we felt that insurance companies and institutions of that kind which were ad...-ancing money for d.evclopmental purpos,,s would be infirPnccd to bring down their rat~s if the Government led the way. Let me be fair and sav th"t Mr. Theodore was not adverse to bringing down the rate. He realisPd how important it >vas in the int'ere,ts of A nstra]ia that it should be done; but he found tJn g-oing into the 1natter \1'ith the Jinancial authorities that it would mean 1lio Li]uro of th·' loan. and we had to face the poc ition accordingly, with tho result that the rah~ of inh.xcst ~-,:as as finrdly announced. \Vhat hon. nwmber will say that after all that wr.s not the prop-~r steP to t~ke? '

.\n 0Pl'OStTIOX :\1E1IBER: What about the banks"

The 'lT<K\S1;HEH: Let us be fair to the bnnks. They arc lending out £100 and get}ing in £94. Jt is the duty of the banks to nclp as far as the·~ pos:-1bly can to save us from financial disaster; but the banks have their llmits as well as other institutions and beyond them tlwc cannot go. '

I \voulcl like to sound a note of cncouragen~cnt to the pcopl(' to-night. Australians are a great peoplr'. They have done and they an_ doiug gn~ut things. Australians haYe llen:~r "_dropp<'d their bundle," and they are not going to drop it now. They havB con rage. ddunnination, and ability· and I b.dicvc that, if yuu get an Austr~dan in a tight plac, , he will get himsc!i out more qUickly than anyone else and put himself on a sound foundation. \'"";-e huxe a great and

ondcrful coui>try. I "' ould like cvervone jT::t' to tra L:J <Fros;.; the Dov;ns at tho nrCsent lllornC'nt. 1 wouid like to a ,k anvoi1e vvho has trayellc-u to l\Jc1bournc or Canberra and i; in a posit1on 1 o ex prc~~ an opinion as t.he rp~u~t of his ob.CJ~rvations during the daylight l)Orhon of tlH~ JOtnncy '"1JuthL}r he has seen any l_and con1purable with thr Darling Do\vns. I thmk not. Then I ask hon. members to look at the gre~t exbcnt of our sugar lands IH the far North, and at the advantaO'cs we have in "-very direction. o

\Ve have come through crises preYiousl:, and we will come through again. This is not a party matter. I repeat that. if hon mem.bers ,knew all cancer; ing the financial ro.sition ~o-Ja~--many things arc necessarily ~aJd conficlclltlally-then. iu--'-r;ad of criticisIng unduly, they \Vould rallv round the Government and say, " \Ye are" going to pull t_ogether. We are going· to try to help the State out of her present difficulties." I do not think there is any hon. member opposite who would "'Y that his electorate did not get a fair deal when he came to me; but, in the mtercsts of this great State, it will be nec9ssary for .the Treasurer to say "No )' again ~n~ again.; and the Treasurer is going to do It m the mterests of this State.

There is a duly devoh-ing upon us all-a duty that Cl;Lll ~e carried out only by loyalty and determmatwn on the part of the people generally, and by those whose interests are so great in this fair ,c\ustralia combining With each other. I should ,,a.y that the man with money can help very materially at this stage. There are undertakings in which money can be profitably invested with a view to assisting and encouraging the State as a whole. We must not drop our bundle; but we must say that we will do our very

lion. W. H. Barnes.]

658 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Suppl:J.

best in connection with financial matters. Each one must aim to lift this country to the position of the first State in the Commomvcalth; and Queensland will be the first State w.hich \Yill reeovcr and h .td tht,,-ay for the oth0r Statc.3 to rL;.oycr in the intCrcst'" of thi.'3 great and glvrious Aus~ tralia ..

l\Ir. W. FORGA?\ S:\IlTH (Jlacl.uy): _I listened very can·fully to the Tn rr.::;;urer In the course of his rather di:-.cLnsive address. HP repeated in hi:" -lJC'C'cll :-;c,·cral tirncs, ·· If nH'n1bers only knc\\ all,'' aud .. If h;_~ was able to t-ell all that he !me"··" members gcncrall:; u1ight, take up a . difl'erent attitude fronr '\\·~1:tt tflC-; a.rc t d~n1b· no,,·. I ~vant to take this opj1ortunity of .• aying that, whilst the Tn)a-surcr of Quc~_~uslaud rna~ pre,'n himself as much as he liKes and look for the applause of his •uppol't rs as much as he is able to get it. I clcfinitr•ly cha.rge him to-night \Vith failiug in his duty to this Parliament and with iailing in his duty to the State of Queensland. He stated that, in company with the Premier. he recently attP•1clecl the mmt momentous conference> that has ever taken place ·incc ·the dawn of federation. ThNc ca.n be no doubt as to the importance of that confl•rence; and there can be no doubt of the importance to Australia of the decisions arrived at at that conference. Yet the Treasurer comes hero to-night. and, instead of advising this Committee of the true facts of the finaucial position a.s it affects Queensland. and instead -of telling Parliament what, in his opinion, he considers necessary to deal with the position in the interests of the peop]p of Queensland, he -delivers a discursive address. He referred to a speech made by me on some given date; he referred to a speech made by Mr. Theodore; and then he read an election leaflet or an extract from some propaganda of .an anti-Labour character.

He has given us no information at all to justify Parliament in voting the money he is now asking for. If there is anything that justifies the continuation of Parliament, and if there is anything whereby Parliament can assert its authority, it is its control of the appropriation and the expenditure -of the public funds. Yet, during a period of unexamplecl cleprcesion in the community, '"hen every section of the community is torn with anxiety as to how various things are to be dealt with. the Treawrer fails utterly in his duty, and fails to give a lead to the people. or to give this Parliament an opportunitv of obtaining i11formation upon which hon. 'mc1nbers can form an opinion.

First of all, he gives us no information about the \'arious public balances and the state thereof. He does not tell us anything of the state of the Loan Fund account, or of the Trust l'und account. and so forth. He h1s been asked those questions frequently, and has failed to answer them. I have al· o .tskcd for that iuformation from the Treasm·y Department, and frequently have been refu~ed it. although the lu\v compels the Treasurer, woner or latr·r. to publish the inforrnation in the "Gazrttc." l-Ie prates in this Parliament about the neccssitv for the co-operation of all classes in the cor:nmunity. about how it is the duty of eYery member of Parliament to clnl with the position in the inter0sts of the State and in the interests of Australia; yet he is the only Treasurer in the Commonwealth who has denied the Leader of the Opposition information neces-

[Hon. W. H .. Barnes.

~ar•· aLout the -..-ariou::O finaucial transactions of ·thi' State.

The TRE ST'HER: \Yhc'll did yOLL apply for it•:

:Vlr. IY. FORG "\X S:\flTl! . Quite recently. ,A, a matter of fact. T applied for it to-clay. .-\~ an ex-TrPasureJ·, dte ho11. n1C111Ucr kno\\';5 lhat. whil:-:t \YE' WPI'P in pO'I'i'Pl', hP g-n! u1l tht' information he dt ;irecl.

'The THE \:->rRER: 1 ('Otdrl l!Ut r,•·et any infornwt 1011.

:\Jr. W. FORU.\.:\ S:\[[Tll: You got all t h<' infonnati011 that :'--ou ~l-skcd ful'.

"J]lp TRE.\ 'cREH: That j, not -o.

:\Ir. W. FORG"'.l'\ S:VllTH: Apart altogt'ther fron1 :::L.1t· fact. the Treasurer failed tu infonn thi:-; Comtnitt•'e a.s to the extent of rh~ ccuJmitment,c of thic, State iu any agTL'Cllll'llt a1TiY1 cl at the l\.Icibourue conft~l'f'llCt~. J-[c referred io the intportance of the clccisions. and talked grandiloquently about ,_,,,hat h~d been clone tlwrp: yet he doe not ,~:dYe thi:". Cou1n1ittcc any i11forn1atjon of <.t lH'l'ci:-c character of the cornrnitments of );is' Government and of the State. Anything he has >aid to-night has been public prolll'riy for some l imc' past. As a matter of fact. the prc,, reports of the conference both in this and other capital cities haYe contained nwre inforn1ation than the Treas.urer g1ves. \Yhv. a Parliament composed of men who uncierstand their respousibilities t annot fail to resent the cvnical contempt for Parliament and parli;unentarv institutions shown h: the Treasur<'r h<'n' to-i1ight.! lie mentions citsually that loan expenditure during the en::;uincr finaneial vear "\\•ill be n1u-ch curtailcc!.''but he giYes us uo information at all about' the loan moneys that will be available to the State. He giYes us no information of the amount standing to the credit of the Loan Fund account at the present juncture. nor has he given ns auy inforn1ation as to whether the States to whom he loaned money to carry on public works will he able to me.-t their commitments on the due dates.

Mr. KELSO: He did not do that.

::\Ir. W. FORGA:'\ SMITH: The Tn'a·surer loaned £1,500,000 to southern States.

1\Ir. ;\'lAX WELL: To the Federal Treasurer.

1\Ir. \Y. FORUAC\ S;\liTH : Certain loans are rnaturing on given Llates. The Treasurer has given us no infonnation as to virhether those moneys will be available for the State

' durino· the currency of the prc-[8 p.m.] seut fmancial yem;. The hon.

gQntlen1an has vYandered over almost <'Verv e.ubject other than that upon \vhich Parliam<>nt· havf' a rig·ht to kn_ow something. \Ve know, of com,c, the chffi(_ulty in rPgard to obtaining nE' lo.an fun.ds, 1hc difficnltv \Vith 1~ega1d to n1ecting cxistiu{)' comrnitDF'llt3 and the H('CC'',sitv for Incet-i n~ those co1;1mihnentf;. ~

Tl1e Tr", asurer ;;;tuted further tllat certa1_n ,.acrif:cc• will lwn' to be made by all sections of thz~ connnunity, aLd that the po:::ition .: are in t\)-da", 1!'1, in effect, due to the fact that people, individually_ and collcctiYely, have lived beyond their 1neans. \Yhat is the po>ition" \Ye kn~w that already lar~oc sections of the_commumty have stdfe:'cd. that a la rgc sectwn of the c~mmunitc- is unemployed, that a large sectwn of the community has ouffererl losses by reductions of wages. and that the procluc0rs

Supply. [27 AuausT.] 659

l'l'al i\yalt~t~tltc prirnary producers 1n Yariou~ dncchons-hrtY(' suffered fron1 the <'ffpc" of lowered prit•Ps for their comrnoditi( . PricPs of \YOOl and other prirnar.v l)l'Ocluct~ .~11:\YE..' fallt•n, aru.l. a~ .a cOll3t'qut'•nce. targe f't'CliUilS uf the con11nun1tY ha Ye ah·cad v t:ompub~.l~ily n/~de Yl'ry considerable sacrl. ltt•c:-.. 1 hP lrL l~Ul'f'l' sa vs that n1ore ~rli'rifi('l'~ v. lli han• to lw rru~dc. 1 take thP view tha1 t>\"t'r ;onp iu thC' eon1n1unit•.T as a citizen _o~ _ t_hP v_StatP, ",';ill stancl np to hi~ rcsponsrlnJittc~ 111 tlwt and all othC'r r~ gards; hyt I do sa~v. ~hnt. IYll('n it co1ne~~ to a queslJou of ~aenticP. tlu•rp ~hould at least bP -.;onlc sPrnlJlau(·e of l'qualitY of sacrifice. and that thl' sacrifice ,!Jould come first from th~ people wl10 rr• l>r•st .rl>k to m:1ke it. Tlw l!W1l on £~~ Jll'l' WLck, Ol' tlw n1an un the r~·dtiCt•~l w.~g'P. if he h;:Js farnily ob1iga-non~. Js not H po~itioa to rnakt? Rll\ mol'L' ;o;at·r·ilicl'~ tlwH he i~ rnaking at the Present tiinc. EYeryoue n1ust r0alise the trenwn,<lous difficulties under which l··cople are Jabol!rlll!' at the ptescnt time. \Vithout going to the c1t10s m other States at all, one need o11ly travel aronnrl Bri~bane or to tho various _centres of population ln Queensland to ~l't' in:-tance~ of appallint;· povertv that \H' han• not bC'en aequainted with for" n1anv "' ars past. During the last six months I have ~f'Pn ::;lgns of it in Brisbane. I have cmnc in personal contact \Vith it an1ona pc•oplc with whom I am personal!~

.acquaru!cd-people who are undergoing privatiOn. and pov0rty of a kind that fills ono \Vl_th .d~:nnay, _and creates in one':-:; n1ind many m"giYmgs with r0gard to the futurP. Y on

,-:;an :-300 \YODlf'Jl tran:·11ing in the tran1 car:; with their children; and the obsorYant man nn1 ~Pl' the })inched faces, the look o£ anxiety. indicating that those people, the mothers of the fntnrc citizens of Queensland, arc at their wits' end to know what ro do-not so mnch to make ends meet as to twm-ide food for theil' children in order to maintain the verv flicker of life itself. :\at a stone's throw from where I am speakmg at the present time you can see the -l>cctacle of men-fellow citizens of ours:,:oing forward and picking up the scraps trom the lunches of the boys and girls allcnding the Technical College and the Gni,-ersity . after the boys and girls have !Imshetl the1r lunches in thP Botanic Gardens.

..:-\ GO\'ER~MEKT J\1E\IBER: You are exag~·prating the position.

:\1r. \Y. FOHGAX S::VII1'H: That can be :'-C'Pn eYPr""-· flay. Th(~ po~itlon does not need t'l be exaggcn!.tl'cL 1-fo_n. rnen1bc-rs opposite lttay sePk to cbsa~rf'f' v·1th that; but anyone \\ ho knows anythmg at all knows that what I . .t.un ~ 1ying i~ trnc. The SccrPt'al'Y for Labour and l11clustrv knowe. it a~ \YCll .as :1 ~1~'CHH' in 1 h1s com1.nn:1ity. IT e has internc',\.f. ·~nd ~~0pnt.tt1un~ Z'YL'l'"'l dov that can

fill Ortl' \.,]tl! ~~TlnpntlP.; and" 1vjth comcli '.Yhat is the" remdv that the

offPr _for dealing 1dith~ the situa-. say, 111 effect .. that costs of pro-

dnctwll rnu-.t cmne dcxwn, and that there !JILbt be sacri.firc.

_\s a I!l'lttcr of fact, the Nationalist Partv o~ the Comrnon,~·e1lth 8lld in this State haYO ne _ren.cdy at all to m0et these p< I'iodic crises "hwh haYo overtaken the nations of the wnrl.rl at the present time. 'While they are t ·llGng. about btinging do\vn the cos~ts of produchon, the same thing is being said in •·very other country in the world. In the l'nit<cd Rtatcs. in Canada, in :\cw Zealand,

llt PP.'l' cc~nuh·y pl'actieally in the world to-da~·. ~. it;l thP pos--ib1c exception of France1 JlCoplc~ a re Inecting thi~ urayc -dlfliruHv-the t!1:liculty of findin'~ the \\~cr;:·withal to vlnaintain or-llnary l'lL•n1c"nnry "tandarc1, of health <~ t ·l dPrP;:c:·. The penplt: "·hn ar, thP Con•nJiuct:t of ihis COIJ.ntry ut 1118 present tin:\ :-:ay. in t1'lt there i:-. HO l'ClnLdv.

.) \\"lwt thr-Y cn-guc 'is i . ..; Ho l'l~Hl r1v. Tf hou~. JllPlnb--L~

rlu cnl !llltlPJ':.;;t;lHd what I run talk~ 1·1 al :ut. 1 hen it }., ;1 rnatt-r'l. for rcgr0t.

\- nrio:J:-; C'couotni~l...;; dl~a] with this 111attt r 1 :' a \;ay. ~ J:iall-".: ritcrs refer to ]t, a~, Oill' of p i'indic c ,·i::: .; ihat oyert'akP

, clnt' to the nn1in1itcd cap:.:citv of mc+}wds of prorluction to prOduce

a~!~l.ih(' ii111itcd ~oln•nt Cdpac.ity of the pooplo ol tlH' \Yorlcl 1;) 1- true. During tho last t•,- L'llty thP Capacity tO l)l'OdUCf.: t hroilghour -~\·c...._.·]d has iucrea:-:;cd on an . tWLllOU.., ~ R.t..d ::::ol,-cut dmnaEds for "'"h forms of prodnctiou haYo not advanced i11 i1u.• ~ arue ratio, 1-vith the rc.~u1t that, under n!oderll rnethod:::; of production, the rlunkcts o+' the ~/-odd ha,vc Lceomc saturated. These ('1 ise~ take pL.u·cJ uncn1plo;pnent results and a consequent falling-off in the demand fot rrimary products t'akPS place, due to the fact that the people of the world have their ~taudard of liYlllg lowered and their purchasing' po\V\'1 dirniuj:::.lwd as a result of these things. If hon. members care to read what Prof<"sor ('upland says in the report pre:-entcd to tlll'• Connnornvcalth Parlian1ent on an im-estigation made under the authority ot the Bnwo-Pagn Government they will find thn.t he deals effcclivelv and fullv so far as the limited scope allow~d with what he calls this businc:)s cych.•. At one time it was regarded U:5 a recurrent period of bvelve y~ar:;;. Then it 1vas red need. to ten; now it is ught years. ;'-; o matter what hon. members lll this Chambe~ or elsewhere may say with regard to ccrtam forms of expenditure the fe~t remains that periodically we have these cnsrs; and the Nationalist Party has nothing t' offer other than an international poverty compchtwn, m wh1ch each country vies with the other in working the peopie longer hours and for les" wages than its rivals. Is it not anparent that, with the line of policy being ach-ocatc·d by the Goyernment of the dav and being pursued in the various larO'e prO~ d~wi~1g countrio~ of the world, the proportion o, chffoncllCP w1l! rPmain the same?

B:.: all mo.an~ bring down the costs of pro~luctlon, ehnunate waste in every 1vav mcrc:asc the carrying capacity and the pr;,: ducbv1t,v of land; but somuthing further 1s reqmrcd. \Ye must see to it that tho !\Tf'ld- hulk of the people .share in the mcrpasrd produclivity due to modprn inventlYC gentus. and science as applied generallY to pwductlOlL 'l'lwre is the basis of th~• 'dwle ~rouble. So long 1s it remains as· it clws w1thont any a.!teration or remC'dv then th.csc bus~ncss cycle':., thcso periodic" ~rise", w1l1 contnm0 in their intensity, and the t>•:r;od of years that dapsc between them 1nlt boe01uo narrov;cd.

The Treasurer has ~iven us no infonnation whateYCr ~bout the. financial position of the Stnt,o, no mformatwn at all ubout the conference rt,centJy attended b~· reprcsenta.ttYcs of the Yarwus States and the Commonwealth; nor has he attempted in any way to g1 H'. ~ lead to the country in regard to the po'>twn we arc dealing with to-night_ 0PPO~IT!0)! :IIIE:I!BERS: Hear, hear!

Mr. Srrvith.]

660 Supply. [ASS.EJHBLY.] Supply.

Mr. KELSO (cYundah): We have had this afternoon an exhibition of the ta.ctics usuaily iwlulgod in by hoJ<. members opposite. We have had a very learned disquisition from the Leader of the Opposition, who adopted the usual tactics which the Opposition have adopted for so long of blaming the . other fellow and saying that the NatiOnalists have done nothing. This is not the time to give information with regard to these matters. As the Treasurer said, t :1(' proper time to renal the intentions of the Government, as the Deputy Leader of the Opposition well knows. is \\hen he introduces his Budget. \V e. arc only asked to-night. to vote a certain amount of Supply m order to carry on the business of the country-for one thing to pa,v the salaries of the public servants The Leader of the Opposition told us quite frankly, with a great amount of unnece•sary heat, that the :\'ationa!ist Party is ba.nkrupt of ideas, and has no remedy for coping with the present situation. Let me remind hon. members opposite that two years ago Mr. S. M. Bruce, the then Prime Minister of Australia, in a very fine speech which was distributed extensively, and of which I have no doubt hon. members opposite have copies told the people of Aw;tralia whaJt wa~ coming and what should be done. He sounded a note of warning as to what would happen If w_.e continued in our headlong race of spendmg millions upon millions. He suggested i.hat, in order to have more co-ordination of effort either the Federal or State Arbitration Courts should be abolished; but what happened? There was an appeal to the country, and the Federal Labour Party made promises v..hich they have not fulfilled. They said to the peonk " If you put us into offi<::e, vvc vvill ~nd tlw unemployment problem." Have they e_nded that problem 1 If hon. members oppoSite would 011ly be quite fair, they would adm1t that somethmg has happened within the la.st twelve months which nobodv could really fore,ce in its full intensitv. It looked as if things were in a pretty bad state two h-e months ago; but wo never imao-ined the calamit0 which took plac0 in October last year and which has shaken the whole Commomvoalth to its foundations. Those Inembers who are now in office realise the rcsponsibilit:.- attaching to the position, and are able to judge bettu than hon. members opposite.

1\!lr. PEASE: What sort of a burden did Earle Page leave them?

T,he Ct;:A TRMAN :. ~ appeal to the DeputY Loader o" the Opposition to cease his interjections. This continual putting of que,tions to a speaker does not help t.ho debate and I ask him to desist. '

Mr. KELSO : Members of the Federal La?m~r Government are fa.cing the responSib!llbos that attach to then office and are grappling with th" ?ituation in c~njunction WlLJ the ropresontabvos of the State. Thev do not mrtko the wild statements of the Deput::. Leader of the Opposition, which I am gomg to prove were absolutely wild flights of imagination. Ho seems to have in his mind an idea that a gentleman named Niemeyer is the evil genius of Australia. He tells us what he knows is not true-that this man was sent to Australia by the Bank of E~:gland.

Mr. PEASE (Herbert): I rise to a point of order. I did not say that he was sent

rMr. Kelso.

out b:~ thr Bank of England. I said he came to Australia at the invitation of the Commonwealth Government to discuss with tlw Commomn.:alth Bank and the Commonwealth ihc• state of the finances of Australia. (Govemment interruption.)

'The CHAIRMAN: Order! I ask the hon. nwmber for Nundah to accept the statement of the hon. member for Herbert.

1\Ir. KELSO: Under the Standing Orders I have to do that; but the impre,sion left on my mind and the minds of other hon. members on this side of the Chamber was as I ha vo ,utcd.

1\fr. PEASE: Be fair.

:Mr. KELSO : I am going to be fair. and I am going to be decent-which is much more than the hon. member is.

The l'HAIRMA~: Order !

i\Ir. KELSO: That was the impression left on my mind by tho tirade. However, I have to accept the hon. member's assurance at :m·'r reqnest, Mr. Roberts. 1 understood the hon. member to state that Sir Otto Niemeyor had dictated to tho Federal Government what they had to do. Then the hon. nu'nlbcr waved his ar1ns and said, "Are we going to be dictated to by this man?" As a matter of fact, Sir Otto :t\iemeyer has made his report, and he leaves it to the F:dewl Government to carry out his suggestions or leave them a! on<;, as they like. \Vhat i the good of the hon. member trying to convince this Committee that this man is the :vi! ;enius of Australia? He makes certain recommendations. Let me give a synopsis of "-hat he has suggested, and ask hon. tlL'mb ·rs whether they think his suggestions an-' unreasonable. He fays-

" Tho Australian standard of living has reach0d a point cconomic.-Jly beyond the capacity of the country to bear it, unless f:'"oduction costs are considerably reduced aud th,, production per head increased.

".Auetralia had to adjust herself to a world economic situation more advantag-eous to herself than in the last decade.

" Australia would make her difficulties tremendously easier by facing realities, instead of believing that there was an unlimited market abroad for Australian goods. and that sornething ·would turn up.

"The natural optimism of Australians would not make the practical solution anv 0asier.

,~, _,\n"tralia must itupcrativcly restore th£> budget and exchange equilibrium, and solve the problem of her unfunded and maturing debts.

' Australia must reconcile herself to the general trend of wor.ld conditions, la'\ er a standard of costs which the rest cf the sorld had long since found to be impossible, and reduce its general price level very substantially.

"Austrolia must prepare itself for a possible further drop in its national income, and posqibly a reduction in wheat aJCd wool values. and must adjust its price ]eye] to the rapidly falling world price level.

" Sir Otto made an important roferenoo to the heavy national penalties imposed bv the tariff wall and arbitration and wage fixation systems, and urged that deep consideration be given them.

Supply. [27 AUGUST.) Supply. 661

" The fundamental question was the extent to which Australia would make it possible for the present picture to chang<'.

" An1idst cnt.husiasn1, the conference thanked Sir Otto for his invaluable w-"i,tancc to .Australia, and also thanked Srr Robert Gilo.on. chairman of the Com:rnon\Ycalth Bank."

Tl1c TRFASL"HER: Hear, hear!

~llr. KELSO: I am perfectly certain that the' Trra:-:urc•r in sa~, ing ·• IIea.r, hear;'' ls re!le('t.in~· the unanin1ous opinion of the con

. Tloc•s tlw Deputy Leader of the pi·opo.:::t::.l to take any notir(~ o~ the

n '}1"td;:~: uf tile actin·~· Prin1o J\linister of tb•. Ce>mmomYc.l!th. l\Ir. Fcnton? The'•' l'i~luark;o; .arL' contai{led in the '· l)nily Stand_..rd of to.day, and will probably be

.. s true be the Dcput:· Leader of tlw

" The Fsolutions agreed to at the J\Ielhournc conference ~taud. \Yo \vould not Hgrce to the p .... ::sage of buch re ·olutions if \\·e did not corJcur wjth thenL l\lr. Sr-ullin's definite decla;ation, and he was actiug a~ the rnouthpicco of the C :t.binet. :-.pc~ak,.;:. for itself. \Ye pro11ose to ~tand by lhP confl'renco ngrecrnPnt.''

That. is a rlefiuitc and cleat' dcclaeation from the ~\cting Prime J.tiinister of the CornnlonWt·alth, ,,),ich does not square with the \Yild and fauatj('al Ptatc1nents rnade by tho J)eputy Leader of tho Opposition this afternoon. The n·p·Jrt continnl'·.;-

,, The foregoing st.atmne1.1t -was n1ade by the Acting :Prime .Minister, Mr. J. E. Feuton, '\vhen he "\Yas questioned yesterday regarding the nlOYe in Labour quarters to try to persuade the Federal Go,·ernment to disso<'iate itself from t.he ag-recmPnt reached at the momentous linancial <.:-.:Jnfcrcncc in MelbournP, in cooperation with Sir Otto Nienwyer."

Thi;; report contains the opinions of thn _..~cting Treasurer of the Conlnlon~·Nealth. ~lr. L<on~-

. •· 'It is absohrtely essential to pre-::-e:;_·ve Au;':.tralia':3 solvency,' said the E'ecleral Acting Treasurer. Mr. J. _'\.. Lyons. speaki11g· at Burnie yesterday. · Those who mig·ht say that we cannot afford to pay our way might be reminded that we c·.annot afford to do othenrise: such a course would be calamitous.' :i>Ir. Lyons proceeded : ' Australia will pull through, but we wili ha;-e a hard struggle before us, The co-operation of the varinu, .. States and the Commonwealth and nf all parties within Australia is e~scntia-l to enable the country to regain it.~ balances. The position of the Cornmon"· calth is certainly difficult-serious, in fa('t-and it will take son1e time and lnuch ronstrn<:ti-,-e action to bring about stability. I feel that this is not an impocsible task, though it will call for co-operation and help from all sides. It will be necf'S~, arv to rov1se our met hoc\ and tn_ at "' fLilancc as an c;,sentia! factor i11 govornn1ent. I feel sure this will bu done, as Australia has L:·u·JJt its les~on. There i:J no reason to fear for the ultimate succc•,,,. of a country 'xith such \Y0 11 +:~rful possibilities. In a decade, or n1ore, ...:-\ustralia will lw more populous and prosperous than C'Yt'r.' J.[r. Lyons concludc;d b.v expres3ing pleasure rr:~ardjng the indications of co-operation shown by the rcprc.wntativec. of the different parties."

The D( put:.· Leader o£ the Oppos~tioJ~ occ~~ pi6d a emtsirh;l·a blc portion of h1s tnne Hl critici~ing the financial institution~. not only in =.:\nstralia hut in England. He told us quite plain!~· that the linancial institution" in Eng)a.nd had set themselves out to down tiw Commo;1wea!th~that thev intended to

the Comnlonwe3Jth to dictato thev wanted; but in the next us· with great glee that in

so :\Ir. Fenton had been able t•J arrange for the cover of £5,000,000 in TreaFUl'\c bill.-; thnt \Ycrc ~oon to faJl due. Huv:.· cait v,'t• reconcile the by the. hurL nwn1be1· v .. ·lJpn he

v;ithin a couple of that, on nearl~· cycry occa·

-.:~on vvhcn thl' hon. n1cn1bcr nddr~::ssc himself t J thi~ Cham!Jt~r, he nutk vvi]d, irresponsible "ll' ment.- Yvhich he cannot justify. He :--pent nc·arly ·u1 houl' in tr}~ing to '\YOrk up

l'llthutS~a,_nl so thttt. his rcHlark..; n1ight blazoned f rth in tl c U' ·sspapcrs.

Tl1{' Le~·_dt'l' of brit'f ;-;i' ,c_: o.f time us on t'CUllOlllH U:S t.he oth:--r opportunity, ti1J.t trouhlL at tho lH'P.-:-Pnt. tinle -: .. 'ai5 on•r-production-that. oxiug to the introduct !on of HP';,' rnachinf'ry, thcrf' vnts on:r-pro· duction aud congc:,tiou in all the things that tlw pPople need in this \Yodel.

I do Ht)t think that the hon. lllfinber

,.o-.·1-rPd tlu• v::hole ~ubjcct. As a rnatt0r of fad, '.dwt is ha]Jpening. ~o fai' as I f'au judgr, all over t.hc \vorld at thP present i inH' i~ that we arc con1ing back at a slow --,.;,oUlPtinH·~ u,t a quif'kcr pacc~-to the p_ro· ,,. ar lt•vpl; and the deflation and contraction 1 hat i"- L1king place 01ving to this rnoven1cnt j, se1·io\!Slv affected b:,· the financial posi· t ion of cv~·rv countrv in the world. 'I here ;, no douh+.' that Atistralia has been living in a fool'~ paradis(~ for years. I can ron1E'InbeJ' the sp,•ctacle here of Mr. T~eod01:e ln·inglng dovn1 his loan proposals rn tlus. Chamber. Ho was alluded to as a wonder· ful Treasurer bv those members of his party who spoke la<t. night on a certain subject. One hen. rncrnber said, " Here i:-< the outstanding tiguro among the statesmen of Auotntlia, who, while engaged in the preparation of a groat Budget, had to be warned "bout some trial coming on !" vVha~ did this great Budget amount to" The m~roduction of the Federal Budget was a pwce of panic leg·islation on the part of the Labour Partv in power in the Federal spher-e; so m'uch so that probably one-half of the duties imposed in a hurry under thai Budget han had to be cancelled or sus)wnded. Panic legislation is not the slightest bit of good. I c w say for the hanks that. three or four years a&o thoy forec •. aw t!H> position Australia wail drifting into. TheY -.avv that we \Vt>re IiYing beyond (~nr 111r ,,~n:-;~ an~1 that. our unfavourable t.r:~de J>alaDCL' "\c'US \"C'-t'.V ( .csil:T go! OY(']' b,y apply-in o· to the n1arket 111 London tor :t

ln~n to C'U'>f'l' np.

\Ye gross cxtraYabancc• \Y/1,.:{ forrn~ iho principal 011

connection \\'ith the E··Jt.or forrn of f'xtrav?.g-ance

h. lrostencd on the prc."~mt 1nortg8.ging of the futuro in

eonr:t>ctton with f hf· ti1ne-pnyrncnt business. '!'he hank:; all through the piece cndcavour:'d to ;;tc'rn Hwt rid- The great public prn?.~ in Au~t r{diJ.. ineluding the {]aily press in

Jlil r. K elso.]

662 &upply. (ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

Bri>bane all<l some of the other large towns )n Qnce11sland. also sounded a note of warning,; bnt that note fell on deaf ears. The people did not want to hear. They adopted thP principle. "Let us cat. drink, and bP HJcnT. for to-morrow ln:: clie." Tl1ev did not 'think of the day when they i,1ight 110t bin P a job.

Th>' time has come since last October when <>11 adYPrse trade balance could not be met: and the people of Great Britain called a kt!t. and asked us to put our house in u1 del'. The expressions of opinion emanating hom the Leader and Deput· r_,,ader of the Opposition haYe not helped

' in the ·lightc·;t c!Pgrec. \Yhile sitting 'i~tf'ning to the ,-Jpccch of the Treasurer it "emu! to me that hon. mPmbers opposite \\ jn:-<t in the (,Jndit1on that ::-.Joro "\YflS

"' he· liclc!lc'd while Honw was burning. The• cal1on~ dii;rogard f:l}lO\',-n of tht• situation, tlw sneering rPrnarks, the gc ·h:trcs mni11g frmu thern 1vhil·t th2 Trrasurer had rnc~ tgc to gi,·e us dealing not onl=, IYith

but with the .,-hole of Aushmr light!:· they viewed their

The,- ac:b,d '" if it wore Thl''"' ::a icl that uli('

n1adP no' ;:;u<:':gestion~ io Th(' conf~~rt:·ncc 1H'1d in

lwt1vecn the Prerulel'.-.:. and Trca~~tnws of thP ;:urious Shd.P~. in COlljunction v.-ith l L" n:'rn·c:;;cntat}ycs of tho Fr deral Parli~~rn\ 11L \Yab one of the mo;:;r rnoniCntou" vnferer.cc:-'l p\·ee held 1n the hi···torv of

Australia. That conf<'rcncc showed that the l:ou: Part_y l<'adcrs thPuiseln-'s recognised

rcsponsibi1itif>s attached to thcjl' high <Jfti:·~.· by rcsoh'ilig' thn.t ~omcthiilg had to bt :lone. \Yhat do 1 '·e f'mc1 occnrrcd \"t::•;:;terda~:? TltP foliowing is takt•n fro1n tloe .. Dally :-)t'"lrHlard,'' n•fe-rring to a nH'eting IYl1ich took place jn Sydr~cy :~

" A conHnlttr-=- re-prc~cnting the industrial and po1hical wlng~ of thP Labour rnoYf'InPnt rlerjded last night to l'f'·:!OlllJhcnd that an ultimatum "hould be "f'l'Yf'd on the Federal L<lbour Incnlb~T:-; to l't'l)UdiatP the 1inw1cinl «;:rPe-

reuclH"'d at tire rcc:•Jlt Pn:.-111i0rs' follovviug the ~taU'n1Pllt Jy

"ir Otto ~i<'mcyer, and olso that an:: F~·dC'ral Ille>lnbcr ·yho r0fuH~d to obev the exccuti\·c ~JC' cxncllt"d fnnn thE' LDbour Part,,· a"' an t~nerny of 1-hc "·Drkingl" ~(If>".

( Jthrr dcc·i ions of th0 conference were~

cul

'' Tl1 ~ <:anccllation of ~\ ar Jrhts. a dPelaration of a ftvc vcars' lLorntorinm c 1 in1-· 1,- _t v;1yablc or'1 OY01'"Ut GoYcrn

tfk mobilisation of th~ of comrnnn:ty ~o lll'OvidE' work

and '-'tv'tf'Tl<-LPC'' for all l!nelnployed. and 1 1 u~t tbr> aw;•rcl rar'_'~ ;-;hon}d b·~ Ul 'inL_tinr_'d at ;_dl cm-d::", 1'-<_gai·dk·.;;~ o£ t1l'< fiiwncial ~itnation, a.nd th 1t full rnain-1- ''" ll' choull b0 proYidcd for all uncrup!o--; cd. ':

hflYf' J dl. opposite to sa\' \YiJl ClllSWCr tha't

"du( iali: rn in our 1H'etHt rc·d to carr,, i:rr v~ boc n 0l<>cl'c;l

pl'f\tt'El If hon. [?.z·-; 1 .rL-] ~~.wmbcr:~ opposi~e UL' not prc-

THU', d to carry (ut S--·~ iali-:n1, \vhy do not go back to th0ir cnn:-:;1-ituenh: and r-:·L\' h;tving reconsidered the question, tb'0y fin,'! t,1c0 llan' made a mistake and cannot carry out the affairs of the country

[Mr. Kelso.

lllHkr that p1 og-rammc" But what do thevdo; Th0v retaliate, and ask what we haY;l don<'. Tl1ey point to the fact that unomploy· mcllt has increased by leaps and bounds dul'ing the la·"t year. They forget. in coinman dec<'ncy. to mention that unemployment has incrc::~scd in a greater dC"iTCC in rnany of the other States of Australia. If they Ylflllt to be fair, let then1 eornparc the posil iou of Quccuslancl with that of the other ~'ta tc~.

'\Ir. Kmw.\:>:: \\'lwn "." di<l that during the' la~t (•kctioll you laugiiPd at us.

).Ir. I{J~LSO: The hon. Ulf'tnbcr js uot correct in saying that.

",lr. Knr.\-.\x: Y on said that in hYche 1J1onth~ th. n' \YouJd hP no unentploynH:mt.

Th<' Cll.-\llLCIL\'K: Ordc:r:

..l1·. K1~~LSO: \Y(' 1't•co~·ni~.rd th0 re3pousibilit, thnt \''nn!d lw at~achlng to us jf we \Yt·rt~ l'C'l'U rncd to powt~r. \Ye hA. cl n lcg.acy of dC>bt aJJ(l 1H1Cnlployn10nt unparall~led !n tllP bi~lC)l'_V of QtH:Pllslnlld. lOppositwn cll~ent.) T \\·a...: in thi:-<: IIou_:-;r• whPn .J.Ir. Theo-

don-. a- TrPUSlli'Pl' '·:tid that ht> regn:ttctl hl t/w1, u11lf ~·" h1_• ,,·as able to raist:: £[ P''r <UJ'!Ulll. H!H'mployinent would ]ll' rnn1pa: \Ya~ 1hat not an achnis-;ion ou l;\:~ '1art tl1:1t tlH' Labonr Go\<'rnrnent cc-:uld 1!ot ('<nt·· on th0 1i lf'dH't"\ of th~' State unlcs"' thP\ bn.rro 't d a larg-e ::'Ull1 of 1nonr-v to pt·c;\-id0 Htployinc 1t fOr pcoplr? ·

\\' e lw tl h(_)n. llll"'lll!wr..- oppo:-;ite sneering' tu-ni.s-ht ..,.-lll'll tht• Tn'a:-:-urC-'l' wa- talking r1hont ''f-'!'1011-" tn~:tu~r..,. It is tirno that botJ1 pr;]itiea I ]l" <ties 1riccl eO act togdher in thie pnrt1rular rnattPr. 1 ant c0rtain that, when tlH' Trl·;-..... nr<'r deli\-(~1'~ hi:-1 Bndget speech. jr IY~lJ b0 fou11d that lw h:-'s denlt. in a fair and t (:nitablP mannPr v;ith ~ ny taxation that i.--: 1 () C'OllH'.

\Ye hn n• Let•ll t;Yitted to-night b:'\'' the Le :tdcr nf the Opposition that th" Gm·ernnu·nt ,,·ill not irnpo;.;~· taxn,tion in such a ;:va:--li>a t 1 he illlrden y;j]l fall equitably upon those who arP be t: abh~ to h("''H' it; bnt J arn perfpctJy C·'l't1.in that the Trrasurcr will bring in a Bndg<•t which. thongh unpalatable, will. at an.· l'atc>. fulfil ilH' prornisc whirh he, in

ou1n1on yr,'ith th0 otJF,r Treasurers, rnade at thP Loan Council that' l1c~ IYOl.lld halancc hi.' Budg('t. T: 1e :B\~·tlcral L<l bour Goyc-rn1nent lw·. e 11 \YOl'-"<' juh; tll('y hayr to Inakc dn~stic cat·'· It' i' to the cr~dit of the 2'\ationalist Lt uder in the F>d('"a] Parliament that. in criri{j-.ing t:H~ F0rh_~ral Qqycrnmcnt for their

ilur0 tc~ meet th<' sitnation 1vhich was 1ooin-1n,L bPforc Sir Otto ::\·;('Jnever visited

~-\u·~t-rrti:n. i1c pointC'd <nlt HlCR.J;s '\Yheroby cm1ld bn sa;-(•d so fur as th(~

"·~~n' conrf'rnccL I-::Tis cl <Jt b,_ Federal GoYcrn-

,, is sOn1( thlli£5 like tld staton1ent rnacle J.t t).ycLwy by

t b' ,. . 1

• n•prc :<~~ting the indw•.tria1 • a. >I }lOi.!. ILJ.t WJll~·s of triO I..a.bour 1noven1ent th ·t. r ·Iurdl, s.'> -nf tho financial position~

rnni1Jf 11:uH :• should be proutH'nlplo:n'd nwn and '" orncn.

111cn haYe "'O scn'd' of re.;:;ponsibility. Fed.=-rn l Go, nwtnbors have sur.._ ly

OPIJ"'itc. \y

'·Xot a pPnnc: c n thr' hour~.';

and collsidccd th. they w '--' likzJ hon. rnon1~

at the lu::;t elcr.;tiDn, ~~id, not a mjnute

~\s a rnatter of fact., \·,:c have to con1e back to the good old law of supply and demand.

Suppiy. [27 AuGusT.] Supply.

You cmmot pay wages beyond the power of induf'try to pay those \vages, and \Ve are earning to the tinH~-it, is not far distant" hen the people who expect to be employed eau only get the 'YV'ages vvhich the industry they are Pmployed in can afford to pay. rntil "c get clo-nl to that basis then is not going to be any real progress. \Ye have to cut our cloth according to onr meam. and until we do that, notwitlrstauding the 'tatemcut of· the Leader of th,. Opposition to-night that f:tlUng cost;:; ruca1t a lower ~tandard of liYing, I wou1J n'rnind ho11. JUC'lnbors that the basic \r·age vrhiC'h has been reduced to £4 will buv mone to-claY than the basi vvage of £4 5 · wonlcl buy eighteen 1 ;onth' ago. That is on the authorit:.· of 1ncn who \YCJ'l' appointed LY hon. lnPnlbcr;-;

oppo3-ite 'rhen fhf'Y were 1i1 officP. The)~ ~a:. di~~tiuctl.Y that tlw cost of liYing during 1 he last c•i[-.'ht.C('ll rnonth~ has hce11 rPduc·Pc1 h:v 8:". JH'l' "·cek. bnt tht~.v onJ,,~ reduced the hu -ie '"tg .. : 5~ .. ,,·hich j.., 7~. in cxce.3.:: of the Fed(~ral \\RFC' Tt i..:; not a qllC'·tion Cl{ low0r co:.:..t~ ,lnci lo\V"C'r \Yag'C''', t h t rnon gd : it i-. a 'l""'tion of the pffeci in' l fan. llH'Jllbcr:-; rnu·~t seC' that that i:-: trll{' economic po~itiol!, a·tc1 JlUt tiH• apparf'llt ··agt• that pcoplP gC't. been if

got £1(' a WPPk and qw·nt £9 only lw n• a :;.urplus of f~ .. had a .·urp1n~ of 5s. out of £3 <1 ,~·0ck. he would be abl<> (o bL!V more vv-ith !bat surplu~ th-an ho could with'thP !-VlllC ~~"!.rplns ont of £10 a 1v-eek.

~Ir. KlHVV\X: ·von Ui'C a :--nper-optiuti:-~t.

Mr. KELSO: l am an optimist.. The l1on. JJH- :.11brr \Yill adntit thni· \YbaL I mn :--uyi11g is correct. ~\t the prc-:cltt tinH' co:-:ts <l J'P conrjng down. ''het her hon. HlPtllbt•rs oppo~ite like· it or not, ancl· I haYc no hP~itarion in s,.tying that cost-3 sbould coinP down funh0r ~tllL and. a.~, (0S~s C'OlllC' do\Yll. ~o wagC'." ,hould come dow11 lJJ proportion. hut thP effPetiYP ,,·age \vill bn f'qnal to what it wa~ ·wh0n thP ba~lc \Yai;:-0 \Ya:-:~ higher. I hopp holl. m~mber.- Ojlpo~itP. instead of indulging in raypj·,.g C!'itiei~nl, will do tlu::.ir he~t to .·ont.ribntc to this dchat<~ ::-;nggc::->iion.-; which vv-ill be for the lwndit of Qneensland. ThP f!nancj 1 po~ition j~ so st.•riou::: in ALl:-'tralia that. tlw time is coming v:hen '"" shall haYc to mohi]i:-e all our f onon1ic foi'C'(':-> and "-ork tOg'('thcr t_, one, just a~ w had to do ·wht>n tltc \Ya:· WD.5i on fot· the :-.tlu• of ::;r-1£-presrrYation. 'rhnt time- is earning.

:Yh. KTK\\-AX: \Yho m Dele the "n --test c ;cri-f!cr ~during thr vi·ar? -

:VIr. KELSO: I am talking a boul tho ccoJlorni(· ~itllat.ion. au1 Ycry pJcasPd to :"a.\-1 hat l'. l'\•nton i;-:; ju~t -<L' optim1.;;:;ti" a~ is unr TreasHI'0r.

:::..rr. ~L\.T-JER (l!o ',, ,,Jrl): T "',ts quite cbtres. -rl to-niglrt to think that th" Leader of t be Opposition did not bring fonv-ard the Sc~'ialist. pa.naeea for .:· l1 cconornic ill:-~-llG.lllPly. the objcctiYl' of the party \Yhich be leads-the 11at,iouali.~ation of the~ n1eans of production. distribution, and E''<cbange. \\'p ll'"cl 1-o h<'ar from tlw public platfom1s "11 oYer Q.ucen;:;lflnd (1nrir:g the palmy class of ~ho Labour GoYC'rLmcut ju this Stntc that. in the (~ n1agic , ,·or:..I:-3 lay some balrn that ·.muld all<ty all the difficulties of the countrc-.

To-night, when we arc faced with a most <1 iHicuH and cxtraorclin arv crisis in the financial affairs of Australia,' ·the Leader of the Opposition really had nothing constructiv-e

to oiler. On the contrary. his epeech was Pntirelv destructive and unfair in its critici,;rn of the efforts of the present Government. The main attack which comes from hon. members opposite consists in the constantly rcit0t'a!c'd cry that. wages are being reduced. That is the cry we hear day after daY in this ParliamPnt. Hon. member« r,pjJOsite know that th0 Government have not redn{'cd wag-es.

1\Tr. KIRWAX: \Yhat? Dicl !he snn rise 1l1ls 1norning?

Tlr0 C'HAIR:\IAX: Order! I appeal to 11F• hon. rncrnh0r for ::\orth BrisbanG to r··frain frmn interjecting. one! point out to ltim that he \Yill have the right to speak n ftcr tlw- hon. n1C'lll brl' for Rose\\ ood has n ·lU11Cd his seat.

:\IL·. l\JAHEH: The Gon'rnmeut of QuecnsLn](l flnd tlH'nl~elvL-'3 11ot ou]y in the position of ha:ving to e1E''lll up the L'xtrnordinary 111ess !r'h b.'· thrir predecp:-:-3nrs jn offic,\ but si ICE

have con1c into po\\'Cr a ~t t of conunpandlc]cd in ;\nstndia has CO"".tle

iJJtO bciJH!'.

.\t 8.40 p.m.,

r. Gnr:\r::-:-TO:!'\E (,.;,fut!!r 11). one of the panel of T( _Hporal'~- ChainuL',;.· n~li.'\'!'d ihe Chairut 111 in thP chnlr.

:\h. c\LUIER : There has been a trcmcn<lOLr- reduction in the Yalne of all the goods

hi eh \VC export fron1 1 his country. running i"to millious of pounds. There has been a ~Sudden termination of loa11 rnone-~; and the big orgies of wasteful loan cxpl'nditurc ,\·hich characterised the Labour Govcrn1nent --;\'11('11 ill po\vf'r are nut possib]e to-day. On 1 he top of that, we find ns a Government that, through less ll101l('Y beiug in circulation in this C'Duntrv, there arc 1cssenld incomes. Bu.:_;ine~" pc·on'le, pec. 1)lc Clt the land, and t'Yerybody el1gageJ in geueral bnsiness a ·t iv-ities in Qu0cnsland arc feeling the pinch and td'P earning tc_.;s monc\-, l11 conseqllence tlt0 T:,ea,-;.ury i~ nof n'· riYing tho same uwotn~t of incou_1o. tax the Raihnty De-part; Hlf.'Ilt 1::; nut n :'C'lYlllg" sa~uc rc1enue; anet prncti.cally PYf'ry-- d: partu1< "<tt. of the GovernHtC'nt ha;; had a big shri11kagr~ in re, eipts since

Gov0rnrncnt can1c into po\ver throngh 0xtraordinar~· circlunstanccs prevailing.

i a~k hon. lllClnbcr.s oppnsitr \Vhcro tho '"oneY is to cu:ne from. \Y haYc a dellcit This _;ern of £750.000, cJqe to no fault of this Go\'CrtJrncnt. All cl it i-::. c-~ tirnatcd that we arc going to be short by on'r £1,000,000 next year.

\Yhcrc :ue w,, going to find the money to ill\ lll( 0 the public Rcrvice? Arc \Vl' going to 1><, in tho same position that the Labom· Prf'nti('r in South Australi~l flncls himself ill io-da ---nnmely, !.hat for the first time in the hi uf an Ausi-raiian State its bnnk ha~ an inti1natiou that the chCf]UCS of tlw nt ,,.;11 not b honounc! if

Tlw ov-erdraft of the Sollth A usiralian Gove-rnment llfls been ~topped.

An (}ppQSTTrOX ~dE~!BEH: It lf' being contintwc1.

"\Ir. JIL',HER: Of course it is bt·ing coni imterl. because 1\fr. Hill ''ent to Canberra , .lp iu hand to ='Tr. S,Ltllin and secured £500.000 fro1n the recent Connuonwealtl· loan with which to c·•rry on. That money ,,ill not last long; and. w.lwn the £500.000 has been spent, what better position will Mr. Hill be in, unless he takes steps to cut

Mr. Maher.]

5G4 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.]

c>xpenditure m the w:tv we arc < ompellecl to r:o here?

\Yh 1 t is the ~;ood of the L<::ader of the ( l t~·no~itlon gPtting up in this Parllan1ont a ncl n1aking deliberate f:,tatl~mcnt that the ( ~u;-errnnc'nt rcduccJ \\ages? I say Lh t !s a disti11ct JiP, and that the GovornIll('Ut haye. not reduced wages.

KIRW.'\!\' (Rri.ol;.nc): I rise to a point orclcr. Is th(~ hon. HlClllber for Hoscwood

in :.:a·vin;:-- that tht) Leader of tho .rru.t.dc- -a sta ~,'nlcnt \,·hich it... a

The TE:\lFClrL'\HY C:HAIR:\IAK: If th•' hon. 1nt:m

1E't' for Rose\•:oocl said that a

.•t. t ·me;tt b~· L,·:tder of the Opposi-tion j, a I him to >vithdraw the expression.

withdraw the st-tteincHt, :lta tomcnt of the hon.

unt nt~'. \Yhy do hon. n1P1nbers f'icle pcnist in making statekind \\·hen thev must realise

·which the G0venlll1()nt an . im itL' ihem to show the Go-

,·prnnH 11t 1;.'hc1·c tile money can be got. ~ .. 1r. IIogaP, thu Labour Pre1nier of \l-ictoria, }\Jr. ~cull111. h.._, La Lour Prinre }linister of AlbiraJ;,, ,)nd :Vlr. Hill, the Labour PrcnJif~r of South ...:\udi·alia, are in the sanre po_,ition, as hon. rnernbers know just as well as we do. \\-h:c not be fair to th0 public and face the facts·; Everything depends upon the arnount of we- ~.Hh ,,rhich a country can nroduet•; and Queensland's annual w(•alth nroduciion IS in the vicjnitv of £63.000,000. Whcll hoz1. members darnour in this Chamber and paint fearful. wild picture;; of th' dcspera i o condition of people in th0 StatP, they have to consider how far this £63.000.000 will go to maintaiu the standard of living which all of us appreciate and would like to see maintained. but which C'COJlOmic conditions make impossible under the circums!Jnces to-day.

Mr. HANLON: Do vou favour a reduction i•1 the standard of li"ving ':

Mr. MAHER: 1 do not; but we have to carry out the teaching of the old saying that we have to cut our coat according to our cloth; and, if we only have £63,000,000 after we S(']] the goods we produce-when we '' cnsh up," so to speak-we have ~o liv.e within th<' bounds of that amount. It 1s estimated iiHtt there are 300,000 wage-earners in Queensland. If each one of them gets the basic wcge of £4 per week for fifty-two weeks in the year, hon. members will find that £62 000,000 is absorbed in the process. That will 'help hoJJ. mombc'rs to realise how difficult the position i~, and ho\v neees~ary it is for any Government, wlwthn Nationalist or Labour, to take t.hc advice given to us by Sir Otto Nicmeyer that we nwst cnt our coat according to our cloth. li,·c within our means, and balance our budg_-cts.

I listened to a most outrageous spe:Pch by the Deputy Leader of the Oppooition, wh!ch \vas ab~olut01v U::-1\Yorthv of an executive officer of a gr.,:i'tt politic~l party. It \Vas in f hr: nu tu re of a disgrace to this Parlian1cnt; M:r.d I 1~n1 ;;orr', to think vvo have a rncTnbcr wLo i"' i'SO irrt·bpon~ible and who so faih to reali . .-, the co11dition of this country as to rnakt: such a speech. In the <..ourse of it the hon. n1e1nbcr said that unen1ployment is a wor!d-wide probion1. Everyone of us can sec that; bul ht went on to illustrate the 60,COO,COO people in Germany, with 3,000.00G

[]!1· JJJ aher.

uncmnlovrd. and th,, r;umbor of unemployed in tht~ l:vuitod StatPs of ~'\n1er:ica, Japan, and Tndia .. aud thPn hP askt-~d us., "Do vve dcsirB to hrillv our people down to t.ho ]e,·el of 1llc p:_,o}Jlc in Jndia or t-Tapan ?n \Ye. cort- lr1h do not wi:::h to do so; but there 1s no l;~1:.lild. The JWoplo in J ap:;n and India nv0 bou· cl h,,, the sarne cconomlC law·-;; as 've.

. · ba.-c i "rming millions of people who · to ]j,-., within tlw bounds o£ the wealth

proclncP. thr penplP

mccipt of a c:..~joylng n. higher

Tlu -- ~~ rr: rountneb that 1Jll L thcv 1nnst spread

' rn ~ llions of engagon

a ':.~:cck, tht:OD to }!D)' a 1; in,~rC'~'lS~:

. ..::n d1sbtFbv. No, · pcoplc.,livi:ag in

-thc:ir o1vn conand ir O\Yl1 ··tandard :)f

t'o the we dth thoy ,n·oduee; bv the Deputy Loader

f'uts l]o ice in that Tcspect. n popuLtion of 50,000,000

ill tlw '.'.- ;t 1\lor,'ton urea of _,·oulrl l.OCJ,OOO out of employ

lll•'nt be regarded as a difficult pr?bl~m in rho li,:·ln of that cnonnons popuL~hon: Do 3,000,000 out of e1nploYn1cnt in a populat~o;1 .,r 60,000.Gu0 in Germany present a very d!ffi"'tlt probleu: Thick!:· populat9d countries j11 Europe are n.blc to rna1nta1n enormous pupuh t10n~. run11iu.g into rnilli'?ns and rnil~ lions of people, 111 ro1npa1'ab \ e comfort. Thf'Y do not recciY0 the wage we are accus~ H1Dl~·d td rC'ceiYe iu Au~tralia; but, with their ,yageK. they can buy gcH;ds. in excess. of t~ho Yahw that could be bought m Austraha wrth tlw >vages paid in Australia.

i\Tr. HAXLOX: It is po,sible to purchase a lot more with the wages paid in China and Japan; but that has not solved the problem.

Mr. MAHER: Let us deal with Italy, and I ,vill take the figures quoted by the Deputy Leader of the Opposition this afternoon. He said rhat Italy has a population of 50,000,00p, i!JH:l there' wel'e 500,000 people unemployed m that rountry under the' Dictator.

::\Ir. HAXLOX: \Vith many more on short tirne.

:\I r. :\L.\HER : There is nothing wrong with an unemployed population amounting to E~O.OOO in a viril0 country contain~ng 50.000,000 people. In the post-wa~ penod !tnh was in a position of great d!fficulty: gTeclt strik0s took place in the big industrial ;.,.ntre of ~Iilan and other parts of Italy; and Russian influence extended to those parts t,• such an (~xtent that Conununisn1 "\vas getl'ln" a 'tmtwlo-hold on the people of the <'Ol~Itrv. Itafv got into a condition which r~ --r1nblr the~ posjtion in Australia to-day, onJ'' Yer-: much worse. It got into such a co;1~ditior{~ th,'"~t Signor )J~1ssolini came on t.hf: sccnf'. and. by applying ver.v remed1a1 ml'lhods-lll( .hods ,,·hich >Yerc suggested at the l'rcmi<·rs' Coderonr,<' at which Sir Otto Xcimc>·c,. att.en<J,,d-Italv was brought out cf lv r. difficult-ie3, and tO-day she is in one (>~ • 11e best finaucial nosit.ions of all European countries. That ca1t b» claimed for both fJ aly anD FraLce.

Hr. HAxLOX: You arc talking rubbish.

::IIr. :\L\I-lER: I am not talking rubbish. ttai.: j;:: i1~ a n1n~t 0xtraordin:1r.v healthy


·t1uanrieJ position to-day. due to the applicatwn of the right principles of finance. It i.3 " mnch-quctcd expreS3ion in t·his State that (( fi nanc::' is the truo te,:t of government"; ·nd it, i; finance that governs the world. Our diHiculty in Queensland has been that men unust'd to f!1c hand1lng of finan:._1-: found thern~ seh-es in r •. Jntrol of millions of pounds in this Stat;c, bc:::rnne intoxicated with the pro~~ pect of ndling tho~ ~ ~mns of n1oncy a11d laaded Slatr' in the doldrums. Tlw lrouble Qucpn~~~~nc1 has been t.hat those• 1,rbo controlled our finall('CS Wt:.l·e not skilled in the uso of 1nillions of rnoncy. The pros-

of hruu:lling slH'h large ~un1s staggpred and hclr_}"d to 1 Jl')ng about conditions th-.. Gon __ •nanc'ut \YC'f(' el~._•ci .. _'d t\velvt:

-tllm!tlu ngo to rcctifJ.

To-eLl.\~ grav0 arc ~hrring Australia, and ' c tL·P ·with a f--Ct of conditions ;:;;o :"ll'iou"' thu kno-v;:s ·when~ the 0nd ~.4 going i.o difficult pathf \VC

r.iiust of nee. ssity tread bFforo reaching national s 1LLv. Those who haYO read the afternoon press haYo some id<· t of the gathering stornl in the Routhcrn States. \Vc arc cmdronting a distinct clcaYago bct·ween the t<1odcrato and extreme elements of tlw .Lnbonl' I' a rtv. The unfortunate fact is that the "Joc-k . Garden" and "Jack Lang '' clement iu New South \Vales appears to be a;;;serting the uppc.'r hand. To-night the Depnb· Leader of the Opposition made a 'pecrh which dcfmitely associates him with that extreme >>ing in 0;ew South \Vales which has laid clown terms for the Federal Government. His speech ftts him perfectly for the position of lieutenant to Jock Garden in his attack on the Scullin Government. (Opposition int 0 rjcctions.)

The TE::YIPOR \RY GH/URMAN: Order:

Mr. :WAHER : I would appeal to the Leader of the Opposition to face the position as it should be faced, and not permit himself to be ranged behind the elements of disorder. Those people have asked us to forgo our national honour I would ask him not to permit his party to be ranged behind that party in X ew South Wales to-day. There is a clear call to every one of us, irrespective of party, in the critical days approaching to sink whatever differences we have and to pull together with a view to riding the C>torm in safety. I appeal to him to emulate the spirit displayed at the Premiers' conference, where the Labour Prime Minister of Au--tralia and the Labour Premiers of Yictoria and South Australia sat down with the Nationalist Premiers of the remainingStates and arrived at certain resolut,ions. which, if carried into effect, will help to restore Australia to the position we want to see her occupy.

Mr. Por.LoCK: You hanc not told us what thoso n <oJutionp, \Yere.

}1r. :IL\HER: The hon. member has read t hen1 :in the ne\, s.va pcrs. They n1orely e!nbodicd tht- vcrv useful and sound advice tt'IH1~>n rJ io tht' .:\115t·ealian pt:ople-not -dictated. ;L; s(al,ed by the Deputy Leeder of the OprJr··.•ition, through the Premiers' confcrel·-;c by the clistill''·nishod guut of the C"ouliT!Og\\Talth. Sir Otto ::\icn1cver. The rcsolutic_;s ;• re- V

·' 1. That the sev~·J·al Governme·nt~ rcprt·sPnt.~.d :lt, thin confer0ncc declare their fixPd determination to balance their respectiye Budgets for the financial year

1930-31, and to maintain a similar balanced Budget in futun> years. This Budget equilibrium will be maintained on such a basis rrs is COllE1istent ,vith the J'epaymcnt or convorBion in .... 1\.ustralia of c-xisting in'·,crnal dcht maturing in tho next fevr years. .FurthLr, if during any flnanc-ial Yc:tr ther(:~ are ind1cations of a failure of r"Yenue j,o meet expenditure in1mcdiate stC'ps will be taken during the' vr'ar to eusnrc that the Budget shall La l ~1 ~we.

"2. That the Loan Council raiw no further loans on•r:-;cas until aftpr existing o\·crsc.os 8hort-t-~rm indebtedness has been

dealt with-this decision to to o"<.ccrsf'as borro;ying hy large

authorities, in rontro1ljng tho upPl ,ttlon of whi-ch the State Trca.:;urer -concf·rncd will rtd in agl'eernent wjth hi::. colleagues on the Loa11 CounciL

"3. Thr,t it JS rc~r)l\~cd by the 2en~ral (( . rcga rJ.s such public

bP pos·.iblu to financo jn the internal n1arket,

will not be g-in'n to tho anv lH~w· \Yorks \vhich are

il1 the seu:~e of yielding to iJw Trea.-;urv concCl'DE'd 1 •"ithin a. rca.-;onL ~le peric<l a revcnun at least ~qual to the scrvice of the debt (interr t and sinking fund),

"4. That. in order to secure the regular ecryice of the public debt from rc.'NJUC. sl·cps will be taken to pTovide that all interest pfl':rnents shall be made to a special account in the Common· wealth Bank. to be used solely for the pa,·ment of interest.

"5. That the Commonwealth and State Treesurcrs will publish monthly in Australia and overseas a brief summary on uniform lines, showing their Budget revenue and expenditure, the position of their short-term debt. and the state of the loan account. such statement to be drawn up aft~r a uniform model to be agreed upon. do not think that any sensible member

of this Parliament could possibly object to any of the points laid down by Sir Otto :\'iemeyer for the consideration of the Premiers "of the various States and for tho

appro.-a! and endorsement of the [9 p.m.] people of Australia as a whole.

Certain resolutions were arrived at in consequence of the conference that was held If tlwso resolutions are adhered to by all 1~arties. then I am certain that Austr~lia is sufficiently great to pull out of the dtfficultiPs surrounding US to-day. rrhe day;=; are dark and Nitical but I haYe confidence in the At"tralian p~ople, who come from the right stock-from the old pioneers-the gold diggers. the free sr\ectors .. the honest >FJrkmcn who laid the foundatlons of th1s g!'cat count,ry of ourc. If, irrespective of Jlart;.: politics we _aJlply our~ch-es to th~ olutron of du~ lnggP~t ~proolen1 Hl ou1

national !if0tim~, then we shall secure what ''arnectl.'- desire to-day-the solu

trerrwndous financial problem~ PS.

there .arc easy ways ont sugextrc-nw clc1nents in the conl·

lllllnit.v. It hn~ bJen suggc.::ted that we n1lght inJ ate the note jssuc, borrow more

int0rn.:lly on the credit of the . and do man;- other things which

Mr. Maher.]


the soundcst advice in this country and past experience in other countries tPlls us is unsound. Therefore, we have to pursue the hard way, which may be summed up in the \vords of the Trr-asurcr-" living within our rueans, and balancing our Budgets." \';" ery simple little things, perhaps, but hard to do with a clamouring populace, who cannot understand the circumstanceo of the case. That is why I say that, ·.d1en people outside do not understand the ramifications of the situation, there is rnore than ever an obligation resting on every nH'mber of Parliament, irrespective of party. to educate the people as to the right path to takcJtot to n1i~lead thern and rni,guide then1 as tho Deputy Leader of the Opposition did in a. mo't v. rptchcd fachion to-da v. I was ashamed to sit in this Chamber· and listcu to tlw hon. mcmbet, particularly when ho must have known the full fuels of the ca.se. In oiller countries and at ollwr timl's (liff--rr~lt other nwans ho~vc been testr>cl out; nnd \'rt: kno ,· that as a result of t.Psting out one nl<'thod the French Hevolution occurred, and the hracls of the rulcld and the intcl-1cctual of France '\':'re sacrificed to th::g·uillotine. \Ye find the sam<' thing m Hul"):-;ia, ·where rui111ons ·were f.tr-rifi<'rd ai tlH' whim of the DoJ,ho-.-ist leaders. and whNP w_• have tlw So\~iet to-day, is a li\·ing exaupl" of tllc efforts of the; "mob" to find ~:umo C'- sy ,,-a>· Ollt of difficult circurnstanc<S in their conntn·. It ,.]] gets back ~ J the ~ .1D'H: thiug-: -..:·on~ 1na \. tr\ even· road. but the ouly ro£1-d is the ~~EH' 'road ..

At 9.5 p.m., The CH.HR1IIX resumed the choir.

:\Ir. G. P. BARXES (TVancick): I listened ith iutc'lT::'t to the points n1ado bv ihe hon.

member for Nund .. -h, and I "m 'sure that, hud he been awwc of "·hat appears in th,, ·· Tcl~graph" to-night, he would haYe quoted 1 he cff0ct on London of thr rc"'olutions pas.~ed b:- th,, New South \Yalcs Tradn Lnion:;;. The stDternents iu lo-n:ight ,. rrcle~ graph" .:-hcn-v the in1portunt cffeC't irrcspon~i~lc 1!t~cr-H~~es ~,ro ha:ing abroad jnst at tfJJs cnt1enl time m the fmanc''S of the world. It is U>lfortunnlc that we should haY" utterances si1nilar to the resolutions carried b7 the New South \Valr Tt·a.dc lJnions Counr1l. The effect on London h'~s comG at a vcr_y inopportune momont-just at a time whc;J the £5.000,000 loan was duo to be raised tllcrc. Here is the cablegram from London "·' publish0-d in the "Telegraph" to-ni;:ht-

"Lonrlon, 26th August "Tlw C\/ew South \Vales trade union

r0solutions dcn1anding the repudiation of \Yar debts. and a rnoratorium on ovcr:.;ea le all c·abled frorn Australia. had an unfortunate effect, causing a balanced nwrnin(r ncvi·spapcr like the ' Dailv Tclograp)J' to feature- them under doubleeolurun lH·nUing T'hc::.o road: 'Nc'v South \V: les <tnr\ Finance Crisis; Labour Dun and for \Yar )Jebt Repudiation; Rrioctlou of Ki( uH'yer'~. Ec,nlorny Sdtcnlc; Ex11nlsion of ih SupnoYtcrs Thn,atcnr>d.' ..

': ThP i('nns of tl1n rc:-;o1utiou folJow. set our iu donhic colurnn. the~ wbole calcnlnJPd to gi,-e nn1YarrantcJ imporianco to the rc•·olutions." ·

Mr. B!:D, ORD: \Vho Fai,l that?

::'.lr. G. P. BAR1\ES: That ie the comment in the London papers.

Mr. BEDFORD : One cable liar.

:Vir. G. P. BAR:'«JES: I shall give another opinion confirmatory of what I have quoted-

" The ' :Morning Post' says; The Australian Labour Government accepted with good grace tho unpalatable truths set forth in Sir Otto Niemeyer's di>Lgnosis. but while the responsible leaders arc showing a re-adiness to comply with t ho dictates of wisdom, menacing tones arc issuing from their extreme followers.

" A cmifcrcncc of the iudustrial and political wings of the New Soulh \Vales movonwnt demauls the cutting of the Uonliun knot by the rep_udiation of the

ar debt., and a 1noratonum on oversca~ Govcrnrnent loan~.

"The journal adds: J\'either Govcrnnu)nts nor dcrn,tgogues can flout the itLxorablo behest·- of crononlic laws, any mo 0 than the" '.lJJ deflect the sbrs from 1hcir cour~c..J.''

That ~,ho1vs hrnv <·xtronely Ull\Viso it is. a ,. time tmch .1s that. ,,-hich \YC are gomg through io indu1gc in any outbnrst o~·, utte.rance that may hnxe a very '-orry c . ..Iect .111

Lvl!don nnd aecC'ntuJtc th~ trcn~blc ;vc. d(Sll'l' to :TPt out of. ()ne can unag111c tnat even uitt~~·<:nwf'3 ~nch a-.; \YO heard from the Deput~Lcader of the Opposition to-night arc hkcly to haYl' a dcpn·~~ing effect OY(~r~.;cas, as 1t i> rout nt all unlil<l'ly in the ,c days that some bu,vbod v mo.· C<' blc tho3c utleraLces abroad, ,,nd in the Jlext day or so we shall be tola '\\hat pffcct tlk ,~ utterances arc havtng JH

L~mlon. Tho time has arrived when mcmhu,; of this House aml everyone else s]1<;n-!ld lH' seized y.:lth a scrJse of the rcsponsbilttlct: attaching· 1o their oflice and position.

The hvn. n1embcr for Gregory this a Hernoon dilatred to a la.rge PXtl'nt upon ~he attitude n1cn shonld adopt 111 ~onnectlon with the realisation of their e"entwl rbponsibilities in this reepect, and said that he could not imagine men hol~ling office m Parliament not having some vision In rt;'g~rd to things : :;7 ct in ~on1o instanrcs thos? s1tt1ng_ along ~idc hin1 aro a.b~o~ntely deshtuto. of anY sense of respons1b1hty and aro do1ng rla;nag·c to the interests of t}lc State the:-· arc Supposed io scr' c. I am concerned about this. because I haYe an altogether differr-nt idea of the "\-ray in ·whirh vve were to gd out of our difficulties. Uudoubtedly we should not be asked or expected to do anv more then meet onr oblig11tion, attend to internal lhings, and m>Lke the Budget balance. \Ve cannot overtake the huge debts which are still hanging fire on the other side.

J\1r. \Y. FORGAX S;mTH : How arc you tc h,dance YOUr Budget? You. have a prett·y big job.·

ivir. G. P. BARNES: We have a big job. ami v•c waut the Opposition to help i1s in that direction. and not io do that which will have a dctri~;,cntal cf1'cc!,. \Ye nnr:-:t make an earnest effort to make end~ 1nect.; and, having· succeeded in making ends rnC'vt, our next sh1 1J i.;;; to g·o abroad and fund all the arreare. Mv idea in conTlcrtion with tbc fvndiug of ~thf) arrears i~ to irnproYC' onr position in the estinHJtion of London and csveciall: the me·nbers of tho 13riti.~h Parlialnl!nt-+o go to thcu1. Dlld say, " Surely VDU arc prepared to ::Ianll by us and !rl;,u:aniet1 a lo,tn in conJH"ction \vith t lie ftmding of our a!'rcars! \Vonld it be an unreasonablc1 thing for us to appeal to the motherland? " Some may say it will make no difference; but it would make a,

Supply. (2i AUGUST.] Supply. 667

mighty difl'ercncc if the mothPrland wonld t akc in hand the funding of our arrca rs at the present time; and I do not think we would be f1ski11g too mueh.

~lr. \V. FORGAK S11ITH: They ha Ye a pretty big problem of their own to eoh·c.

Mr. G P. BARNES: 'I'hcv ha .-e. but money is plentiful there~thcy c]o not lmmY what to do ·with it. It is an opportune time for us io seize th0 opportnnit~· to raise the n1oncv under the best of all circurnstanccs and 'conditions. Can wo do better than make an effort to the mothPrland" It. is bett•~r thau goiug to the Bank of Engla)1cl, good as tbc Bank of England n1a:v be. One has only to r<'ad the "Empire ReYiew" to find the JlOsition with regard to bonds and eot1:-1ols in London. '.There is a table showin;;; the rate of intereet being paid at home. as on 16th June last, ill connectioH 'ith consols and Trea.surv bonds.

Of cour:..:•". eonsoh ar0 11ot good to n:-::. as the~· an' a vu·n1anc:nt- t,hing, and hi!.YC' Jlothin,?; to clo - ,·ith our life h0re: but. "'Yhen we co~11c to ordirHuT,T bond< and loaLs the follnwillg is the- po9(tion :-

TABLI<: t::HO\YING PRIC1'! ::UOVE:.\Il';.;-1~ OF l,E\Dl.:\tf

E)IPTR: SECt:RITIE:-'.

India XewfomHlhuul . . . . Conunonwcalth of Aust.ralia Cmnmonwealth of .Australia .!\ ew ~outh Wah"; Quernslawl .. Victoria. };e,v Zealand SYdneY llrisbane War Lmtn

Ha h f ~· Prke. HJth 1 fnteresf. .Junr-,.Hf, 1.

Per t·Pnt. .) ~ :, :; .. ;, 4 .. ·'

~ow ,.e roiUr to Briti...:h ~tuf'' :-. d~ld thi:-> 1~ the PO;nt I \Yi.d1 to nwl\._' in to ~how t hr· bP1lt'iir it. ~,.·ov 1tl bo• to ll" if \\'t' f ·Jt!ld t:,C' InnthPr cuuntry to c8nL· ru HH'

Bl'iti~h Trt'asury br;nds \Yt'l' qnril:('d at-

·ppr C<.'llL £ 4~ pc·r Ct·~1t. 1Cl r, pC'l' C' .li. 102;1

T)l'r cent. 100~

P' c ·nt. 100

.Tn:-t i11lr'.rrine 1::hat it · :ould rncan if ,,-e cou1d ~et n.JnHev <{t 4 JlPI' c0td. ~ \Yhut ;, saving H 1.:ould bt ~ _\tul. while 1no:wy ls ~o ·xcC<1'Cl~ i1:vlv clH•nr i;1 J. .. on(1on. lt is ·.-ds(~ du ap in ::\c-w \ o1·l.:. ::\fo!I(·:-;· is golng beg-

there at 3 per c Our cl<'ar duh· i:-; rnnL::1. f'"~,~C'l'V dt'mt t.o in:-:.nirt: cnnfid<'nu·~ ~d

1uoth~r ~ t}lC'll conw do\\'11 1 Jo not v,i .h

thn.n (· nphns;sc the r< re oppcrf ~n" to ll"'· to ( ~tab]-l;:;h our::dn_'::)

o:1 a and .-::onnclcr footing- with thC' uJOthorland in ord{'l' ihat "h~' llltl"'- bo inclirtf!d {o help us in tht' tinH~ of c!i~trc;;;s. Our P'~blic d ·~.Jt lrhl jn _.'-\u~-;ralia t~ £40.522.623. "\·hllf't C•Ur z)H" ·~·f'<l· J~'ht is £72. ,22.418--a tota] of £ll~.2:J2.n :1. If Wf' conlcl ;an~ only 1 pt r C('D~. on 01.11' int('rlial debt', it t':ould rncan £.~(;5,00.-J pl :· Hlllll~Yll.

That bri11g rr1c to an CXJH'C';;'"'ion of nni11ion I llHHlP the other day. One ls encouraged to k1:ov,· ihat r•yen one indiYidual has conv down

and consented to a charge being made on him in connection with the bonds he holds. I think it ie a downright fraud on individuals in industrv that monev should be taken out of industry and put into tax-free bonds. from which therP is no return whate.-cr. Only the ot hPr da v I "·as told of rt millionaire' in ::~rc1bonn~e wbo 1vas offcn'd an investment, and he immcdiatdv turned round and said. · I only deal in ta~-frPP bond>." I say that i;~ a tin1e of sirL~s and danger !'uch as we <11·e pHf;:"-iup: th.1·oug-h at th~ prc"1cnt time rnan.v ll!Ol'C than 1 hr: wngc~earner should be <·n!kd upon to snff0r. Others should be c,\ llcd UJlOll to contribute. There should be <'qnalit.v of ~ 1.crifie,~; an11 it is on that prin('iplC' that I \Yotdd J'i'IWat the utterance l I'· ,~Yion . ...:1)· ntnde. Th(' amount of i11terest th tt ..:.\u . .:;tralia nay~ at hmue and nbroad is nJ,,mt CfJunl~£-28:ooO.GOO in .\mrralia and £27,cno.ooo rtbroad. I think the time has ;1rri \ rd Yd1r·u t ho~(' ho arc sittiiF~ down at (·:• ~, -dlc .. (' \Yho are < ~:Jt1 iu ])llrple and fine lnH'n and Lil'P suln~u(•uo.._;1 C'Yll'~\ day-should n,, lo;;~~f'r t:tl>:(' adYn.lit f"e of the po·lition and

ha n-,•st. relatiYcly, than should fall into line am! help

to Int.:>d it..:: nb!lgatio~IS.

:\lr. BElJFC!RD (Wurnr;o): The hon. !J:l'Inher for \Yarwick has n1adc ccrL.tin ~t<1t(•Jncnt~ ·dC'JH'·•c,1Ln·y of the fact that quite ~tn amount of j)I'OJl1franda is going- on in London ag~lill::.t. \u.-.tralia. r.rhat bn1ks YCrY largely in Hw D'1ind:-; of th0 peop]e, becaus.e· they haY<' c Jme to hcliPYc tlw printed word: hut the:- do Hot know how thP printed "'ord l . .:; uJnuuLt<.:turcd. It i:-. nothing new for ~'-nslralin to find that m·en bush lirQ, t'\ C'r.v drought._ and CYPrv trouble in .Austt·nlia i fr•aturPd in th0 London papers: b,tt 110\.0!' do the:-, rPport a distressing rase nf hollf --t-· or a horriblr in~tancc of moralihT~ _\~btralia haf' to ~rct used to thi:-:; tr, atn1cl1t iJy t1:f' pr:• .... of tlH~ .; Hutllcr-iH-lav.r '' roun-tr~·. It bn~ ro get usPd to the general fr1ct...: 11H1t b1·cad i~ soon forgotten, and tl1nt lhf'n' is J!O <:4Tatltnde for fayours given

l!l1f' '-"f'ar.~ bad;;:. If \Ye 'Yi::h to dif'cover I h·• b '~'illnin~· of all this vilificatiotl of Aus-1 ralia.- WP h·:-YC onl~ to go to tha delegation fro:n tlw othcr side nf the Honse thf1t went 1 o London duriJJ§.!' 1 hP Theor1orc rcgin1c to put up ~ cw~c ag-ain:-:t rhP C'a~Y rollv('rsion 0f lnans.

::\on~. th r are pll•nt,y of traitors in Ausil':din. numbers of , :hom h,JYC committed ;;nd a.n~ cornn1itting im1nrasurably greater ,. imo>.:: ngnin:-:t this country tl1an ·were com~ tl!itted b'· Australian-born 'men who. became of rh<·ir 1mnws. were internee! during- the

nr. One of tl1r1n ; ... an irorr1jgrant named A\, \r. Pl'nr;;,C'. IIr i.s. a n1 u1 1vho ron1e to

~~otrH' -q- 'l'" aao. An.;;tra lia n1ade rc:1, ~),l of '111-~ lnt :mat0 canner

,, of the "Pa,torat ruffi·~u 111 de certain

n·mn rks ~-;·hich u·e pnblishc>d in th(•· .. Telr<gr11ph ·:-a journal t.:wt ha~ ~o rnuch to bont public ftn;mce that it cannoi, 11ih to tho f]nance in it . ., O\rn countin?"-IJoLFC'. It has lHtd so much to :>y of the t<mltinlica.tion of debt bv Lilbour GovcrnIncnt; t!n.t it neY0r rf'(crrcd to the subtraction ,f £25,C~O i.hat happened in its 0\'i'll cc ur:tnJ ~'-house. n.Ir. Pearse says-and the t ra itoron.c:: and trt ,tclH'rous " Telegraph" pu blishcs it~

"Before Australia cnn rc,_~O\·er from hl•r state of bankruptcy "---

Mr. Bedford.}

iltlS Snpply. [ ASSElVIBL Y.] Supply.

~ovv, rmnC'rnh:r th·1t: V\.'c are alrcadv bankrupt 1 That statement is based on the f.tct thnt a mNo bag-ah'l]p of £5,000.000 h"' !o b" founJ at the end of this month foe a ,-,Hmtl'V that found ovce £1,000,000,000 to defrav· cost of her w~r. Because this umou~t to be found, this person >Yith an office-bov mind decide.; that Amtl'alia ! ankrur;t. Hr} ~a.:~s-

" Before Australia can recovce fro~11 her state ?f baukrupt.c:.- there are thr0\ 01· four th1ngs slw must do, and there i_.:, no altel'native. They are that the basic

and Arbitration A< ts rnust 1-Jt' out. thP ~avigation Act

the tariff reduced to a rn·oportion."

Hl':l:-;c.:ntbl.• proportion::', to suit any OYt:rt rndr'l' : \Yhy not?~-

.. ':rhP~n rnaftcr.s arc vital, and thc-.v un1~t lw ~ccn to at once."

'1---t•;;, :0-Ir. Pear5t!. ITc f~·thcr says-

"Follov·lng this, va-t be effected b\- clo~ing Agcnb-Geur-ral "-

.-, Y0r,1 good irlca-

" State CoY0l'norsl"-~

\\'l::t'rcn'r irnportcd-

ccono1nies can down on all

·~ :nd stafF~; <?nforcing payments for all State e-dveat1on sufficient to 1nake 'f:hools. high schools, and universities sel£-supporting; closina- up all Governrnent work~. particul~rh: the Governlacnt Priuti11g Offices,'·~

~o that Dll th0 (iovcrunH'nt printing ('an be· done at hi~ officp-

·· lct~ill~ o~1.t 'Hansanl ' and oth(•r publications, -

··:ould Id it out altogether-

.. al::;o bank not0s, to private firn1~ bv tender. Primary production must b'c encouraged by allowing all material. ~uch as n1achinery, dips. canvas, sacks. meat wrappers, in duty free, putting our farmers ?n a fair parity with their competJtors tn Canada and South America.''

A11d Labour provided immigrants at 10s. per week : ThPn that ntffian signs his name, .. A. \V. Pears<'.'' He should be in Bogg·o Road

According to the Government on this gospel of gloom. we have th(e Secretary for Public Instruction following up the sta.tement of the Premier to the effect that Mr. Scullin wail _not attempting to g-rapple with this positiOn. He grappled with it so well that h_e called down upon himself all the objec· twns of the o.-crseas importers and manufacturers who formerlv manufadured overseas and exported to Australia and who are now establi",hing mannhctories in Australin_. He did his job so well that the postbon has now secured itself bv the fact that import.s have fallen to a lowc·r level than ever b0fo1'e>_ An artirle in the "Telegraph " says~-

" 1Ir. l{ing 3iC'Y('rely criticised "

know that th~ SccrNarv for Public Instrucdid not sL::..Yor,-~ly C'rit~cise anyone, berau:-:.t_•

lw (·ould 11ot do it--

" th.~ Ccnnn~on;y'--:.:tlth GoYCl'llnH•nt and in pal'ticular the Prirno ~Iinister' (Mr. ;-!.{'tdll.H), for la('k of co-operation \vith tho States 111 theit· efforts to reduee

[!lfr Bed{0rd.

expenditure. ':\lr. Scullin,' he declared. · '·ill ta.!k on e.-er,v subject but that of reducing- \Yag-cs and salaries. I do not think he is gan1e io fncc the situation.'"

It mus[ have been a n1attcr of great relief to th,· Pre1nicr and Treasurer. wh~n theY went down to ]l.felbourne, to f!nd a · sick Scullin instead of a well Thc:Jdorc·. It 1nust have been a fine thing for them, aHhough :\fr. Scull in v. as innnC'u~·urab!y gTL~ater than all this Covt~rnt:lt·~it sid(', pyr·n if he '\aS dl~eount0d 50 per cc-nt. bv illuc~:'. So ,,·ell v•as lH~ able to can·, on the·,. ork that lw had started that, if they had ;:ot hold of thl' olhcr man 1:horn they ,id· -intcked uv clovious mcthocl,;. there ' oul<l haYe b<'eil a r!ifrerf'nt storv told. \YP an: told tho,t th1 cur(' for ' and

F· Jnore rni~f'l'\', and cure for ,1rn is n1ore gloom. Y"'"ou even li11d pCO!)lc gioom: who h<n-(' no rL'a ~on to lw, because the gr "ttcr the depression the bi·lb·r tlH•jr position. The rncn whC' are ,}il t _'C' loans ot 6 per cc•nt., }£ the coDt

of alld cost of all surrounding con-diti~)n::; cotnc- chnrn 50 per C{'llt .• nrc- not -.111

6 JH·r cc'nt.-thev an: on 9 JH'r cent.; and :·c·t 1 he:. glooul : ~

Tn tkill$:!' thn otbr-r dav io a friend. 1 :-'Ug-g,·:::tcd a propo-.ition" 1lwt thr British GoY rnnwnt dwulcl lw "skNl to do tardy i u::-1 icP lY\ putting tlw Au::-tralian 1var di'bt on tile ~<1n1e basi~ as tho interest ratl' \vhi('h ;,hp p:r·~ to Arncrica. he sa.iJ, "But that would nc;·er clo; that would be rcpudiat ion." I r0nliC'd, "But suppo~ing all the mu· ch•Lts w;'I'e repudiated. Anwrica would lw thP only sufferer," to which he replied, .. \Yell. that is line." That is part of the gr·neral 1)1-'0pagancla. The scheme is that it ic \HOng fol' Australia to repudiate tlw ,,-ar debt to England, but it would not be wrong in the rninds of a Y0r:v nurnerous ,r!wol to repudiate the war debt to America.

The other d'" w.heu I 'tated that the debt of Australia wa:s £1,104,000,000, and that the cost of tlw war was £1,000,000,000, and thNefore that the £104,000,000 remainillg wa~ covered over and over a.gain by public works, nry figures 1-vere taken into question. I refer hon. members to the Commonwealth •· Year Book'' of 1929, giving the cost of the war only up to the end of .ltll10, 1928. The figures there show that the cost of the war up to that elate was £686,000.000. Taking a flat rate of 5 per ct~llt. on Yrar costs as the.>. happened fron1 1914, £286.Gu0.000 \Yas paid in interest. Since .June, 1D28. the total has been increasing, and th 0 present pension rutc is £7,750,000 a year. lt muet be seen from this that, ,,v!Jcu tlw critic~ of finance and the critics ,,[ Austrolia. PS)wciall:v overseas, talk about Anstralia's wastefnlness and tho extravagant h8bits v.·c ha Ye got -a lt'gae:"- of the wartht'Y 1H ~~lPct the fnrt that but for the war .-\n,tralia v:nuld b" £1.000.ono.ooo in pocket.

T£ vou decide to disbelieve the Cornnlon" ,,alth .. Y car Book" and the amount paid u,~ :-.ho;.vn by Yariou Budgets and finan•-'Ull l't nort:3 of the Co1nn10ll\Yealth. then vou

. maY do so. bu~ the· facts 'are :0.~0 p.m.] tlJC,l'C'. a,nd f'annot. be gainsaid.

Tht>rdorc, when the hon. member f11r \Vunvick rnade 1-his ad miscricordian1

a 1 about the " clear old Homeland " woLtld help ns-as a matter of fact the


H o1neland is in an immeasurablv \vorse posi-tion than we are-- •

The SECRET AllY FOR PL'BLIC Io;sTRGC'fiO:\: Th~nks to your friends the Americans.

Mr. BEDFORD : My friends the Americ-ans fl11anccd the war, and therefore \\·on it. They are a great peopleimmeasurably g-reater than the miscrablo suburbanites who run them down. It is onlv your inferiority complex which denies it. I \-Vas a Gcrn1an, accol'ding to the hon. gentleman the other night, now I am an American. For all the hon. gentleman knows, I rna:; be an angel; for ho knows nothing. (Laughter.)

Mr. BRA:\D: \Vhat did you change your nan1e for'?

Ml'. BEDFORD: I will not say that the hon. member for Burrum is a liar because that would be unparliamentary, but I have a right to &oe that any statement of his in future is signed by eighteen personal witnesses.

Taking the position of the war debt as it was at tho end of the war, how was Italy treated? Part of her war debt was written off, and in respect of tho other half she was given fifty years to pay it withont interest. Franco was forgiven £300,000,000. Australia was charge•! with all the most miserable things she could have been charged with. Canada and South Africa had their rent of the French trenches paid by Great Britain; Australia paid £17,000,000 for rental of French trenches from which to defend France. It is Gilbertian, but it is so.

Then, at the end of that, we have America -a gTe~t people-funding· the war debts of the world, including the British d0bt, at 3~ per cont., while Britain charges us 5 pe1~ cent. Instead of sen.ding Sir Otto :Niemever out here to prove that Queen Victoria had a right to h< 'p l'russia to be strong enough to Inakc t.ho war. it is more necessary than ever that Britain should say as an eloquent gesture to ~\ustn lia. " \Ye realise that you spent this £1,000.000,000 on the war, therefore we will refund you the H per cent. we have overcharged yon since our debt was funded at 3~ per cent. i11terost, and in future the rate will be reduced to 3~ per cent." That would not mean repudiation to tho individual bondholder, who might be that widow that we are all ready to sob about if '•he has a couple of millions inve".tccl, but arc not ready to sob about if she has onl,1 a day's washing, in which case we take 3d. in the £1 from her. The position is that. if the British Government mean well by this country, she should decide to assume that portion of the debt which ,represents Australia's disparih in -war inter0 -t

Coming to Sir Otto Niemeyer-a gentleman v.·hom we ull knew before-he has told us just what we were in the position to tell ourselves. Ho is just as futile in result as were th0 "Big Four," including Sir Arthur Duekham, imported by tho Bruce Government to tell us what was wrong. The Bruce Government had this fault which the Scullin Government have not: \Yhenever the Bruce Governn1ent \vero in trouble over a few millions pounds, they established a cornmis•ion to spend another half million to find out what happened to the other money. In the case of the Scullin Government they took the only road possible, although they raised up for themselves a host of enemies-all

1 ho e enemies who had been relying on the fact that Australia had weakly given £9,000,000 of a trade prcfcl'ence on goods made in Britain-not only on goods wholly made in Britain, but goods which were 25 p '1' cont. of British rnanufadure, so that t"oods from Germany and Czecho-Slovakia W<JJ'O coming to this country under that preference beeau e ihey were packed m London. Foliowing on that position, the £9,000,000 of British preference, which should have been taken a\vay long ago, is made largely inoperative by the fact that certain luxur~ imports v.cre absdutely prohibited. Ever. bodv knows that the fir,,t duk of the Cornmonwertlth Government is t0 s'qnare the lodgel', with their primary products exported on a. falling market, with a i'Otton habit of luxut'j -which is a luxury of war and no other thing, because up to the time of the war there was no more hard· workiug, hardheaded country than this, and it will gradually get back lo that position. 'l'he idc .t that Socialism ever existed for ca.rrying loafers is untrue. Christianity rnay tell vou that cverv man who wants shall be g;ven his needs; but everybody knows that Christianity is impracticable, and has never been practised. It may have been practised by two or three shining pcopl>: of tho world, but it has never been practise,] by " community; and any community that does practise it \Yill either be in the iu"olVL'ncy court or starve. The position 1.> p;enerally th8t Socialism has no idea of cMrying loafers. Socialism will abolish lon fors. and eliminate the fellow who will not work. It \Vou~cl not starve him. bLlt \muld give him broad and water. E"r'rybodv knows that iho loafer does not come as the result of loan n10ncv. In many cases lw cornL:s a" the result of having a grs_at deal of t11oncv. "You have onlv to look round H10 world <1nd sec sons iriheriting gr<'a ~ fortunea, and in hoYv rnany cases tht:y :-ti 1

wa"tc•rs anc1 in how fc--F cases thoy arc [ ood eitizcns. But here we havro Australia. hampered with £1.000,000.000 cost of the war, and then being told things by Sir Otto ~ inn1eycr, who comes do-\vn as if fro::.n Il~a ven to tell us all WO knew before. \Y< are told lhat the road to finding pcac<' j, difficult, but the road to finding \\·ar and the \'irar its2lf \\a casv. In the ti1ne to corne Europo will again~ get into conflar;vatic n. Britujn will again be involved, and if she should a.ik Australia to come to it, as,istance to make thP world safe for derno:;raey~ Australia v;ill reply " Get your OY. n {jre escape."

:\fr. VVIE:\fHOLT (Fassifern): I wudtl like to ask the T,-oasurcr \Yhethcr he think& it a wise and sound financial proccdurt: to l•.1mp three different items into one Suvply Bill. I am not so much concerned with the amount to bB appropriated from reypr1nc 110r \'i'ith the an1ount appropriated frorn Trust Fnnd. I am more particularly con· c0rncd \Yith the smaller amount of £3Q,J,000 which is to be voted from Loan Fund, because I realise that every penny of that will bc;come a new debt on the people of Queensland. I am not going to take up the time of the Committee for more than a minute; but 1 hold very strong views on the que.,tion of loan expenditure, and I b~liove with people generally that both the la.rge political parties have been fur too lavish aud reckless in !heir expenditure of loan money.

Mr. Wienholt.]

670 Wuys and "~feans. [ASSEMBLY.] Appmpriation BW, So. I.

I han:• my own policy in rega-rd to fut\1re loan Pxpenditnre in ~~ustralia. I believe t'•at thP people of Queensland and Australia generally should slitllcl behind Australia', credit vvith their hlst penny in r0gard to rh,, _._·eUC\Yal;:o; .·Jf loau::.:. \s rf•gards au:v fresh loaH Inonrys ,,·hich are n'quirPd and floated) Jo nOt ·want to leave briL1gcs unfinislH rl. n1ilway.;; lL!C:Or'plered ur unconncetod; but 1 1hink that. \dtt'lll'\'Pl' a fr0sh loan i·:- floated_ by the Loau Conncil--alll!Otrgh I do not personallv belicYP 1~or haYc I P\"t'r bclicYcd in the LOan Council-the Tr,_·a:-:tn·f'_~_· :-;honld sb1.b· -very plainly the 'L'XtH :-

1 au_lount ~·~q~1ircd

and the purposes of eacn 1h~n1. llurdly. I thin\: tlHtt. after tho~c IYod~s that aro half c.>1np' •tpd ar~ finished. the Governm<'nl should floe1t no fresh loan money at all without hn-ing obtained power and authority from the people by referPndum: except by thC' FedPral GoYCl'lllnent in ea:s(' of dofencP nc_•f'd.s in t1mcs cf f'rnPrgeney. It rnay be o..tid that tlwt would be n·;·y difficult: and a!mo·•t impracticable, but it' is a method which '"oulcl nHtke tunvis0 loan c·xpcnditurc very diffictdt. Holding thos0 views, I would be glad if the TrPasurer could give the House an explanation. if possible, of the items for which the £30D.O('G of loan money is now l'f'quirecl.

The TREASURER (Hon. W. H. Barnes. Wynnum): In reply to the hon. member for Fassifcrn. I would like to say that the £300,000 'is on account of works 'which have already been authorised. I may explain that ;,,eluded in the loan expenditure will be ad\ ances to local authorities distributed throughout the Rtate. Theso are not new , .. -arks at all, and are all reproductivP. In each case the amount asked for will cover works that have been already promised and have been commenced. The• experience of the Trcasurv is that moncvs loaned t'o local authoriti(•s ~!ways come within the resolution which "\Yas carried in conference-namely, 1 hat they are reprodqctive. It is a rare thing for tlwm not to pay interest; and t·here are other undertakingR, such a., "\Yorkers 1

dwellings, that always return interest on the borrowed money. This vote is not for expenditure that is anticipated in connection with new works, but to carry out promises that have already been made. The hon. member for Fassifern has made another suggestion 11ith regard to separating the various items. and I will eomider that matter.

Question put and p.as'lc<l.

The Jlouse rcsutncd.

The CHATTI:\IAY reportecl that the Committee h.~d co.r:-tl to a resolu6nn, and asked leave to ~1t .agatn.

Hcsun1ption of Conuuittee 1nad0 an OrdL~r nt. the Day for to-nlOlTU\Y.

Hf's·Jlu1ion re< ,~iv-cd and agreed to.

WAYS AND C.IEANS.

Co~mrnm-VOTE 0).[ AccocxT. £3,300,000.

tJir. Robtrts, l!}.;st 1'oolcwnnlJa, in the chair.)

The TREASURER (Hon. IV. H Barnes, H ynnum): I beg to move:-

" (n) That, towards making goo.cJ the Supply gra.nted to His Majesty on account. for the service of the year 19.30-3L a further sum not exceeding

[Mr. l'l'ienholt.

£2,000.000 be gran!Pd on( of the Con,oliclal<'cl H.evenue Fund of Queensland (exclusive of the moneys standing to the cl'edit of tllP Loan Fund Account).

'· (/J) That, towards making good tllc Suppl~- gTanted to His :1\Iajesty, on aecount, fo1· the scrvicf' of the year 1930-31, a further sum not cxccPcling £1.000.000 be g·mnted from the Trun Ul!<l SpP~ial Funds.

.. (,) That, towards making good tile Supply granted ro 1-iis l\1ajesty, on account, for the scrvic0 of the year 1930-31. a f mthe1· cum not Pxcccding £300,000 be vr.ntcd from the money> ~tanditu..::· to tht> credit of the Loan Fund Account-.''

C HL'~tion put and pasf'ed.

The House rc.cnmed.

The CHA!R}1A~ reported tlmi the Committee had corne to (crtain rc"~olution:;:: and asked lt~avt~ to sit again.

Resumption of Committee made a11 Onlt,,· of tlw Day for to-morrow.

Ht'~olutiou~ rf'ceived and agreed to.

~\PP!Wl'RIATIOl\' BILL, ?\o. l.

FIITST READING.

~\ Bill, founded on the resolutions repor-ted from the Committee of Ways and Means, was intmdtlcecl, and read a first time.

8ECOXD READING.

The TREASCRER (Hon. W. H. Barnes, ll'!Jnnum): I beg to move-

'· That the Bill be now read a second tinH•.''

.Mr. W. FOlWAX SMITH (Mackay): I 'houlcl like the Treasurer to give us some information in respect of certain questions that I addross<>d to him at another stage of the proceediHg,<. He has given us no infortnation at all about the Loan l<'und account or as to the terms and conditions of the repayments by the various States that participated in loans from Queensland last year. Will the money be available to Queensland during the prPscnt financial year?

The TREASURER (Hon. IV. H. Barnes, 1Vynnum): There is an amount clue from Vic·toria and two amounts due from South Au,tralia_ The clue dates are October, and tlw mo1wv ,-ii! not be available until the dne dates· come round. In the meantime the UovPl'llllJcnt have credit balallCPS !Joth in Qnccml<.ucl aHd in London.

;\Ir_ IV. FORG.\K SMITH. Is it a fact that tlte Ihuk of England has reduced the li-overnrnenfs OYerdraft '?

The TREJ,SURER: IVc have no over· draft with i he Bank of England.

::\11'. \Y_ FORGAX SMITH (Jlackay): For a 11urnber of "'ears there has been an arrangement betwec"n the Queensland Government and the Bank of England, whereby the Go,·ernr:wnt can overdraw up to £1,000,000. ... \bout three yeax'l ago an arrangement was l't'ifered into for a larger ~urn.

[:!8 AUGUST.]

The TREASURER (Hon. W. H. Barnes, Wynnum): There has been no occasion to approach the Bank of England for an overdraft lwcau'c we do not require it.

::'lir. IY FORGAN S:\IITJI: T'herc is that t:rrangen1~nt, if necessary.

The TREASURER: I do not anticipate that anv circurustr!nccs will arist~ which will Hecf'~sit:lte the Govcrnn1Pnt a"king for an oYerdraft. Of com-sP. no one can toll what --ill happeu.

:\Ir. \Y. FoRGAN 1--\~!ITH: There lms been no ',·ariation in the urra11gen1ent '?

The TUEASCRER: ::\ot th:tt I am a'vare of.

Qneslion-" That the Bill be now read a .:;.econd tirrlC ''~put and passed.

C0:\1.\IITTEE .

. Jfr. Bob(rts, East 'Toou:orrmba, in the r·huir.) Clauses 1 to 4, uoth inclusiH,, and pro

am blc agreed to. The 1-Iouse l'f·'3Ulll('d.

The CnAllniAX reported the Bill without "llH('Hdment.

Tll!RD READI:\G.

The TREASURER (Hon. \Y. H. Barnos, H':mnum): I beg to move-

" That the Bill be now read a third time."

Que,tion put n nd passed The House adjourned at 9.56 p.m.

Questions. 671

Legislative Assembly WEDNESDAY AUGUST · Question'. [~7 AuGUST.] Questions. 625 General I-IoBpital...

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Transcript of Legislative Assembly WEDNESDAY AUGUST · Question'. [~7 AuGUST.] Questions. 625 General I-IoBpital...