Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

WEDNESDAY, 3 SEPTEMBER 1924

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

55G Snpply. [ASSK\IBLY.] QuedionP.

WEDNESDAY, 3 SEPTEMBER, 1924.

The SPEAKER (Hon. \Y. Bertram, .1Im·ec) took the chair at 10 a.m.

P.\PERS. The follmYinp: pape1s wore laid on the

tabl·c, and ordered to be printed:-Repcn·t upon i'lw operations of the Sub­

Departments of Aboriginals, Dun­wich Benevolent Asylum, Inebriates' Institution (Dunwich), Jubilee Sana­torium for Consumptives (Dalby), \Ve"twood Sanatorium, Government Relief, Home for Epileptics (Willow­burn), Prisons, Queensland Blind. Deaf, and Dumb Institution, and Diamantina Hospital for Chronic Diseases (South Brisbane).

Amended Gas Regulations of 1919. Report of thD Commissioner of Prices

for the year ended 30th June, 1924. The following pa JWrs \\'ere laid on the

table:--Balancc.slwct of the Public Curator for

the year 1923. Regulations 11 to 16 under the Cotton

Industry Act of 1923. Reg·ulation 5 of tho State ·wheat Pool

ElDction Regulations under the Whc·J.\t Pool Act of 1920.

Ord<>rs in Council under the Supreme Court Act of 1921.

Q'CESTIO::\S. RESTRICTIO)o;S UPO);' APPLIC'.\:STS 'CNDER

WORKERS' DWELLINGS AND \VORKERS' HOMES ACTS.

:Ylr. CORS'ER (Burnctt), for Mr. MOORE (.tubigny), asked the Secretary for I>ublic \Vorks-

" \Vhat restrictions have been imposed upon applicants under the 'Workers' Dwellings and \Vorkcrs' Homes Acts, respectively, and from what date?''

The SECRE'l'ARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS (I-Ion. \Y. Forgan Smith, Jlackt~y) replied-

" In Yiew of the extensive commitments on applications already in hand and the necessity to limit expenditure for the financial year 1924·25, it was decided, on the 7th August last, not to entertain for the present (a) new applications for advances to erect workers' dwellings, and (b) new applications for workers' homes to co-t more than £500. Further con­sideration will be giYen to the matter later on in the current financial year."

FIRST .A~IERICAN LOAN-SINKING FU);'D A:SD I);'TEREST EARNED THEREO)o;,

::ilr. CORSER (Burnett)', for Mr. MOORE (11ubigny), asked the Treasurer-

" As his answer to my question on 27th imtant did not giYe all the information required and such information is not disclosed in the Financial tables, will he kindly supply the following :-

1. The interest earned last financial Year bv the SinkiJw Fun{] of the fir~t :-\rnC'riCan loan? o

Qwstions. [3 SEPT~DiBER.] Questions. 557

2. The amount retainNl in America last financial vear in connection 1Yith the first American loan, and the inter­est earned on such an1ount '?"

The TREASURER tiion. E. G. Theodore, {'hi/lrt[fOc) replied-

" 1. £7,995 10s. 3d. " 2. 100,000 dollars; interest earned,

£499 2s. 2d. If the information supplie-d to the hon. member in reply to his numerous questions in respect to the American loans is not sufficient, I sug­gest that he inten-ie\Y the Under Secre­tary, Treasury."

RAILWAY DEPART1IEXT-COST OF :\IAI~TEKANCE .\XD REXEW.\LS; LOAX EXPENDITURE ON Ror.u;-;o-sTocK A1':D CoNSTRUCTION.

::\Ir. CORSER (Burnctt), for Mr. MOORE (.luiJiuny), asked the Secretary for Rail­wap-

"' 1. \Yhat \Yas the average cost for -maintenance and renewals per mile of railway open for the year ended 30th ,J uno, 1924?

"2. 'What was tho average number per mile <Jf-(a) Men employed on lengths; (l1) mechanics in flying gangs;· (c) total on maintenance 't

"3. \Vhat was the average for South­ern, Central, and Northern divisions?

" 4. \Vhat was the expenditure from Loan Funds for the years 1922-23, 1923-24, respectively, on-(a) RDlling-stock; (b) construction?''

The SECRE'l'ARY FOR RAILWAYS' (Hon. J. Larcombo, I{ cppd) replied-

" 1. £187 17s. 5d. "2. (a) and (b) not yet available; (c)

0.52. "3.-

) AYPI'il.~P An'raf.!e 1 ( 'o,;t pn ::<ro. of }Il'n I }file. per }file.

-~-~-£--;-;;.~:------

Sonthrrn Di\·h;ion I ~17 1 n f) : 0·0+. ('pntr<~l Division .. 1 Hi'> 1 '' 0 o-;;o ~orthPrn DiYbion I I G~ 11 O·~;D

" 4. Rolling-stock-

1922-1923 1923-1924

Construction-1922-1923 1923-1924

£ 611,336 430,433

1,341,815 1,205,605."

ExcLr;oJOx FIJO'r ScHOOL P.\PER~ OF ARTICLES DEALJ]';G WITH V'I'AR.

:Ylr. COHST•:R (nurnr-11), for l\Ir. :'viDoro {ctubirt"P). ask:·d the Sc"retary for Pubiic Tn~trurtion~-

" 1. Is it his intention, as published in the Press of the 27th Aug-ust, to censor all school papers and exclude all artides dealing with war, and to write in their place articles on industrial-heroes, health, etc.?

'' 2. DoPs he not cons id er that children would br· benefited by rpading of the deeds of men who sacrifk'<•d thmnsclves so th"t the privileges he now enjoys might be kept intact?

"3. Dol'S he think his articles \Yill have anv l•fft>et 011 other nations anJ their idea. of 'war'?

" 4. \Vhich does he consider more \vorthy of honour and (-'lllulation: Those heroes who faced the foe on Gallipoli am! in Fran~e. or those industrial heroes who oang the Red Flag and advocatP-Cl peace at any price at the Perth Conference ?n

The SECRETARY FOR FCBLIG IX­STRUCTI0:0.' (Hon. F. T. Brennan, '!'oo­u:oom ba) replied-

,, According- to th<' sbtollll'nt made, I said I wonld exclude from the School PapPrs anything likely to iufian1e the rr1ind of th 1: vouth with an an1bition for war, and I w~uld rather explain the causes of \\'ar and th0 f'apitalis6c influ<:ncci which b1·ing it about. In any event, 98 per ccnt. of the soldiers who ldt Australia to tnkc part in the great \Yar '\vcre inllust.rial heroes.

•· 2. I quote the rt.'!narks of GcnC>ral Sir Iau Hamilton, a grpat Britioh General who, whcu nnYciling a 1var nl£'moria} l'f'Ccntly at Crc\YC', England, said-

The tears <md blood of old wars leaYc no tra cc upon our uH~!nories. The Great V\"'ar ihclf i'3 pa~"'ing away from the minds cf the new generation. Unless somPthing entirely unprecedented enters quickly into the hearts of mankind, orphans we are now bring-i11g up \ViE in their turn go to war as if it were a ganH', and find it, as w·::_• found it, a graYc. Don't listen too 1nueh, anyw-a~v, to the Jlleu who marle the war, thev are bound to nc,ck it up. Just a'k yourself oue- question v;,·hcn yon h-ear these :-;pc ( }1P.S. In1aginc~ the British Cabinet of Jul::-Aug-ust, 1914, Yacillating-as we know thPY ''"ere-had thcv been Youch, afc,( a prophetic ,-isiou of us her<:' when they had to make up their minds -to be or not to he.

Yes, hl'1'0, upDn the plinth of Crewe's }lC'nlorial. ]llf;C'ribcd with so n1anv nan1es:. thai YOU can hardly stick a' pin in betw0eu them. what would tlwy have done? \Y ould J Dhn Burns or J olm ::\Iorl<'Y have been the onlv two to shrink back fmm the snicidc of a generation?'"

Yfr. CoHSER: This is not an answer to th(' question

The SPK\.KEH: Order!

ThP SECRETARY FOR PFBLIC I:'\­STRC<:TIOX-

" If tllf•se ren1arks ar<:• cDrrect, not. only mv"'lf lmt tlw people of the British Empire wl1o suffered diredlv <Jr indircctlv through the war \Yould ha,:c bc·en sav·c~i had the British Gabind decide-d not tn enter the vvar."

Mr. MoHGAX: Cut it ont' l\Ir. f'ORSER: T.dm it as rea-d! Hon. M. J. KmW.iX: Take your gruel!

ThP SECRETARY FOR Pl;J3LIC IN­STR1:CTIO:'\-

"3. Tlw Lcag·nr- of ::\" n tions, together with the Cabinet.<> of British countries should toll the workers where they stand, and advise them if there is a necessity to pre­par-' for another war, either of offence or dPfPnce. so that the workers might be in a position to decide as to whether there is a n•ason or not for such preparation;

558 Qu, _,fions. [ASSEl\1BLY.] Questions.

.anJ tlw wod\:Pr~ ~hould clr·n1aucl to know \Vhat ]::" really ha]Ji_Jl'ning in tht.• world's :-.ccrct diplornacy.''

~lr. CoR~ER: ).lr. Speaker, ihis is not an an:"wer 1o the question.

The SPEAKER: Order: I ha Ye no control oy,r_-q_' tl1 _, munYcrs of }.Jini~tcrs to questions.

The SECUETAHY FOR l'CBLIC I:'\­STlRCTIO:'\-

.. 4. I rf'fPr the hon. gcntlenw.n to pago 172 of tlt<' Uoya] Header 2\o. 6 (1895 cdition)-tlw Qnccns\aml State School Book whic·h pr0Yail·d in th-- State sc~ools until recent 1·ears of an article wntten therein b~- John B;ight about 1854, against wars in \Yhich, inter alia, he says-

\Yell, if you go into war now, you \Vill ha. Ye 1nore banners to ·decorate your <:athedrals and churche-.. Englishmen will fight now as wdl as they eYer did: and there is ample power to back ~hem, if the countrv can be but sufficJently cxciteu and delud<'d. You may raise up great generals. You ma~· have anoth~r

Wellington, another ::\' elson, too ; for th1s country can grow men capable Df e.very enterprise. Then ther<> may be titles, and pensions. and marble monuments to eternise the men who haYc thus become great-but what becomes of you and vour countrv and vour children '! - Speaking 'here, howeYN, to such an audience-an audience prohably, for Its numbers as intelligent and as influential as ever ~vas ass-embled within the walls of any hall in this kingdom-I think I ma:v i'ut before you higher considera· tions even than those of property and the institutions of your country. I may remind vou of duties more solemn, and of obligations more imperative. You pro­fess to be a Christian nation. You make it vour boast even-though boasting is son~ewhat out of place in such questions -you n1ake it your boa~t that you aro a Christian peopl0, and that you dmw your rule of doctrine and practice, as from a well pur and undefiled, from the livch· orae!Ps of God and from the direct r~velation of the Omnipotent. You have even conceived the mag­nificent project of illuminating the whole earth, even to its remotest and darkest recesses, by the dls­semination of the volume of the New Testa.ment in whose every page arP written fm·ovcr the words of peace. Within tho limits of this island alone, every SfLbbath day, 20,000, yl's, far mo~c than 20,000 t-l'mplcs are thrown open, m ·which deyout mc11 and "'Ol1H'n ~tssPmble to worship Him who is the 'Prince of Peace.'

Is ihis a reality? or 1s yom· Chri"hanltv a romance. and 2' our 11r0~ fessi{Jn a dream. Xo; I am sure that ·vour ChristianitY j., not a. ro1nancc, and i: am equal!:;· su-re that your pro£:-;.,[on is not a drNnn. It is lwcanse I lwheYo this that I appeal to you with confidencP and tk1t I ha\ ·• hope' and faith in the future. I bcliPYe that we shall sec, at no verv distant time, sound economie princip-les spreading n1uch tnor~ ~id?l~· amonrr>.t the people; a '~nsc ot JUShcc• growfrw up in a soil which hitherto has been denemcd unfruitful, and-which will be better than all-the churches of the United Kingdom, the churches '?f Britain, awaking as it were from thetr

~lu111Ler:<, aud gircliug np their loi11:;; tD rnorc glol'ious \York ""~,Yhcu they ~hall not only acrcpt ~~nd beli0Y0 ju the• proph('C'y. but labour c.ll·n ·stlv for it~ fulfilrnouf, that then• shall con;e a time-a blessed time; a tiltw which sh,tll last for eYcr­\\·hen 'Xation shall not liH up sword again~t n.ntion-ncither f'hall they ]<:>al'll war any n1orc-.' " And Sir Philip Gibbs, who \1 rote a

hook in 1920 on thf' · HPalitiPs of 1\-ar,' and who, an1ong· otlwr things, ctah's on page 446-

And while the old \\ ar wa< not yet cold in its grave we prC'pared for a new war a O'flinst Bolshevik Russia, a lTanging for th~ spending of more millions. the sacrifirt:' of more boys of our·~, not oprmly with the consent of the people, but on the sly, with a fino art of camouflage.

Thf' purpose of the new war s·cen1s tD many men who had fought for ' liberty ' an outrage against ' sclf-deterrnination of peoples ' which had been the funda­mental promise of the League of X ations, and a blatant hypocrisy on the part of a nation which denied self­r,·overnmeut to Ireland. The ostens1ble ol:>jcct of our intcryention in Ru&sia wae to liberate the Rus;;ian masses from ' the blood v tvrannv of the Bolshm·iks.' but this ardot;r for the libertv of Russi:t had not been manifest during the reign of Czardom and Grand Dukes when there were massacres of mobs in Moscow, Bloody Sundays in Petrograd, pogron1s in Riga, floggings <Jf men and girls in many prisons, and when frc;n spcerh. liberal ideas, and democrat1c uprisings had b<'•"n smashed by Cossack knout and bv the torture of Siberian r•:dle. Anyhmv many people belic:ved that it was none of our businesJ to suppress the Russian rn·olution. or to punish the l.ad<'rs of it, and it was su;;pccted by British worki11g-men that the reai motive behind our action 11 as not a noble enthusiasm for liberty, hut au endeaYour to 0stablish a reactional':'--' goYcrnnl·ent in Russia in order to crush a philosophy of life more dangerous to the Old Order in Europe than hig-h explosi:ves, and tc get back the gold that had b.'en poured into Rmsia by England and Ft.mcr'.

Thousands of British soldiers. newly f'mne fron1 'var in Francf', ·were sull0nly -dcLrmined that they would not b0 drag·god off to the new ac!Yenture. They wcro not alone. As Loru Rothermcro pointed out, a French regiment rnutini{'d on hearing a rncre unfounded >:eport that it was being sent to the Black Sea. The United States and Japan -were withdrawing. Only a few of our m~>11, disillusioned by the ways of P' ace, rmss­ing the old comradeship of the ranks, re,tless, nurposelcss, not happy at home, seeing no prospect of goo-d emp1oymcnt, said, ' Hell~ .... \Vhv not thL' arnF again, and ArchangeL or any old where?' and voluntc•crccl for' Mr. \Yins(on Churchill's little war. '' And \Villiam Morris Huglws, the

Arch-\Yrrr-Lord of Australia, whilet the blood of Australian heroes was hardly cold on Gallipoli and Flanders, with tho Yote of a Cahinet still lusting for war, decided that Australia was behind England in a war against the Turks, and this whilst an Ausliralian Par]iam'"nt,

Qur"ifion.~. [3 SEPTE}IBER .] Questions. 509

which \Ya~ not con·-,,ulnJJ. \Yas :-.tl]l :::it-tiug­at the scat of goYcrnmcnt in ~Ielbournc. \Vould mernbPrs of the Opposition object to th~·"c nheranrc·" of \YCll-known }padpr~ of Briti'h public thoug·ht !wing printed in our School R·cadcr~ ?''

-EsnBLISIDIEKT OF i)rEEK~uxn ST.\TE D.IIRY BoARD AKD Co~mrssiOKEit or Pmcrs.

~fr. CL~'I.YTO:\ (Wirlc !Jrz.ll) asked the l~remil~r-

" In the CYent of the 1 ltablishmcnt of a Qm•pnsland State Dair,- Board, and the B?ard agrc<>ing to an arrangement with tne Boards of the other StatC'·• not to place buttCI' on the local market below cost of produetion. such cost to be deter­mined by the Board. will he, ou behalf of his GoYC'rnmcnt, g-iYe the House his assurance that he will not permit of any interference by the Queensland Price Fixing Commissioner with regard to the price decided upon?"

The PREMIER (Hon. E. G. Theodorc, •C hillagoe) replied-

" The conditions under which a Queens­land Dairy Board will operate will be discussed with the Council of ~-\griculture when the necessity aris('s."

REwAN PoLICE HoRSE-BREEDIKG STATIO X.

Mr. DEACON (Cunninglwm) asked the _Home Secretary-

" 1. How manx mares are fhere at Rewan Station?

" 2. How many yearlings wt>re branded each year for the years 1921, 1922. and 1923?

"3. 'What number of horses suitable for police work have been taken from the station during these veaL'S?

"4. Have any be-en s~lcl. aucl at \Yhat a ycrage price'!''

The HONlE SECRETARY (Hon. J. Stopford, Jlount Jloruun) replied-

" 1. One hundred and eighty-t>ight. " 2. During 1921, 77; during- 1922. 82;

during 1923, 79. '· 3. During 1921-22. 73; Juring 1922-23.

112; during 1923-24. 77. "4. l\o horsu~ ha Ye been sold during

tho above years."

l'ERCE;;"TAGE IKCHEASE IX PASSEKGER F.\HES. 3.1ETHOPOLIT.\K ARE·\.

Mr. KERR (Fnofj!frra) asked tho Secrclan for Railways- ~

"\Vhat i~ tlw pc•rcf'ntage incrca5c in passenger farcs-(u) 2nd Class Single, (/;) 2nd Class Return to Brisbaur•. from the following stations: -CYiitchelton, Ga)·­thorne, Enoggera, 1\ewmarkct, \Yilston, Taringa, and lndooroopilly :''

The SECRETARY FOR RAIL\'IAYS (Hon. J. Larcombc. Tl rppel) r0plicd-

,, (a) and (/,) The gem•ral iucrease in fares is 7 ~· pet cent., 1vith a tnininnun Increase of one penny."

GoLD, LIFE. AND YEARI,Y FREE P.\SSES IssuED BY RAU.WAY DEPAR'D!El-<T.

Mr. :MORGAX (_tfurilla) asked the Secre­'ta.ry for Railways-

" 1. Wh>tl is the munber of gold rail-

·way pa:;;~c" at pn'sent in n~P hr•ld !'espcc­tivdY ln--(u) .!Hembns of the Legisla­tive· As~''mbh-: (IJ) ex-Members of the LegNatiYe A~'embly: (c) ex-:\-Icmbers of the LegishtiYc Council: (rl! Jndg-rs':

" 2. How rnany gold tms~c;;:; Wl'rc issued to others than those n1cutio.)cd aboYe: if tlO. the 11a1ne of c,arh holder':

"3. \Yhat is the number of life ot· year]y pa~-3e~. other than gold passe:-., now jn exi~toncl', and b.\T ·whon1 are they held?

"4. \\'hat i' the Jmmber of frpe rail­way passes is~ucd by the Raihyay De­partnwnt during- the ~car ended 30th Junt>. 1924, not mentioned in above list?''

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS (Hon. J. LarcombP, KcpzlCI) replied-

1914. 1924. "1.-·

(a) .Me m hers Legislativ0 Assembly 72

(b) Ex-Members Legishr-tive Assembly 32

(c) Members Legislative Council 45 Ex-Members Legisla-

ti,·e Council 1 (d) Judg-es 3

" 2. 43, divided as follows :­FreP Gold Pasocs-

72

49

51 7

His Excellency the GoYcrnor-Co!onel Sir Matthew :\athan, P.C., G.C.M.G.

A.D C. to His Excellency the Go­vernor.

PriYate Secrctarv to His Excellency the' Governor. '

Auditor-General. Commi'8ioner of Police. Deputy Postmaster-General. I\Ir. R. ,Joyce, Railway Inyentiom

Board. Lady Ivforgan ("wife of late Lic'n­

tcnant-GoYernor). Mrr, \Y. Hamilton (wife of late

President. Legislative Council). l\lrs. \Y. Lennon (wife of Lieutenant­

Go,·ernor). D. Ewart (ox-Director, Department

of Public Instruction). ~-\. R. ~IacDonald (ex-L'ndcr Secre­

tary. l\lincs Department). Mrs. T. Pen·iP. Total. 13. In 1914 the numbe1· wa•

4-+. Gohl Passes Paid For-

L~nder Secretary-Chief Sccr<'lary's Office. Treasury. Hon1e Secretary's DepartnH:-nt. Department of Public Instruction. Department of Ag-riculture and

Stock. Department of Public \Yorks. Department of Mines. Department of Justice. Lands Department.

Deputy Auditor-General. Solicitor-General. Public Service Commissioner. Commissioner of Trade, Brisbane. Commissioner of Public He>tlth.

5GO Questio11s. [ASSE;\IBLY.J Supply.

State In~urancc Conunissioncr. Cmnn1issioncr of I11con1C Tax. Con1n1iss.lonC'r of Irrigation. Public Curator. Goycrun1ent Printer. :\lembn· of the Lmd Coun i::\lr.

P. \Y. Shannon). General Managc'r­

Cc•ntral Sugar 2\Iills. State Srncltcrs. Railway Hefreshmt'Et Rooms.

Chairman, :\lain Roads Board.

::\lembcr-:\Iain Roacls Board. :\lain Roads Board.

Chnirnwn, Prirkl~· Pf'<H' Land Corn~ n1i:-;sion.

l\lpmb,•r-Prick1y Pear Land Cornu:i.ssion. Prickly Pear Land Con11nission.

lJirc>etor. Council of Agriculnn·c. Total, 30. In 1914 the nnmbL'r

"\\'rtS 2. The• Canuuissionl)r for RailwaYs and

48 officrrs hold pat<~es which ai·e usC'd 1n the execution of their duty.

In 1914 the number was 77. T\Ych-e retired raihyay oflicers aho

hold gold passes. · In 1914 the number '"as 7.

The 12 now in operation an'-~ ~TanH~. Issued on.

\\'m. Pagan, :\I.I.C.E .. ex· Deputy C'om1nissioncr. :\.D. 30-4-1919

S. Davis. l'x-Chid RaihYaY Auditor · 7-1-1920

R. Dunbar, cx-GctH•ral Traffic :ManagPr 14-5-1908

A. P. Lloytl. ex-District Traffic :VIanagu· 9-9-1920

:\I. :\fcGasin. cx.Traffie :Yianager, :\Iaryborough 3-2-1909

\Y. S. Prewctt, ex.Traffic ".1anagcr, Cairne 13-9-1918

G. Ross, ax-A.ssistant Traffic :\1anagcr, \Yar-wick 11-8-1917

\V. King, ox-LocomotiYc Superintendent, Brisbane 9-4-1919

A. f'. Rafi. ex-District Engineer, Brisbane 8-1-1919

C. B. Lethcm, PX-Officer in Cha.rgc, SurYeys. Bri~-banc 8-1-1919

F. L. Kc•ir. Px-Assistant Engineer, Brisbane 8-1-1919

C. E. Quinlan, <'x-Divi-sional Engineer, C.D. 11-3-1919

.. 3. Life passes-::\fiJ.

0! her passee-5, viz. :-H. L. Archdall, Chief Police :\1agis­

trato end Chairmfcn. Railway Appeal Board. (Issued 6th OctD­ber, 1916.)

F. Rvder. Official Secr<'tftr·c, Govern· ment House. (Issu~d .6th .June, 1921.)

V. G. Martin. General :\Ianager, Stannary Hills Tra,mway. (Mr. Martin works in conjunction with ra.ilway officers on Cairns Railway

and thereby facilitatc:3 ra ih\ av traffic on Go.-ermnenr lines.) {I~­sued 18t-h .January. 1907.)

Miss Petric. {Issued 14th .July, 1910.) 1' .. J. Connolly, ex-Chief Clerk. Chief

Raih.-a:v Audi10r's Office. {hsued 22nd September, 1919.)

In 1914 !he numbCl' '"ns 25. l<our hundred and fiftv-five railwav

vn1plo~cc·;; hold passes 1:equircd iu thC ('Xt'{'ution of 1heir duties.

Figure-< fC>r 1914 !Jot aYailablc. " 4. 1.123 passes \1-Pl"e issued to uncln­ploycd IYorklnen. Yi~itors, cx~raih\-ayn1en, , tc.

Fig·nrcs 1or 1914 are not ayailable.''

.'\InnoPOLJTI:'\ \Y.I'IEH SrPPLY A:'\D SEWEHAG& BoAnD-REPOH'r or Ronr. Cmt:-.nssrox ox _\r.LEGED DEFEcnn: SEWER.IGE \\"onK.

::\lr. :\IX:\: WELL (Too won!/). without notice, asked the Senl'ta r:-- for l'nblic \Yorks-

.. \Yill lw ums0 to ha.-c printed for the hPJll'lit of Jlw Jlll'mbors of the House the · l't'porr of th0 Royal Comtnlssion appoilltPc1 to inquire into certain .alleged <h•fectiYP -,~.-od\: in eonncC'tiou Vi··ith the l'Pticularion sewer in thP Yirinitv of Laid­law parade. East Brisbanr. the sewer near rho Bab~- Clinic in Alfred street, FortilUdo Yalle.-, and such other sewers and reticulation' t'C'wer_, as the ::\Ietropo­litan \YatPr Suppl~· and Sewerage Boa.rd nwy detcnnine ;· "

Tiw SECRETARY FOR PCBLIC \YORKS 1Ilo:1. \Y. Forgan Smith. Jiackay) rPplied­

.. Tlw papNs haYC already been tabled in Parlian1ent. That is all that is neces­:--a ry. in n1y opinion."

::\Ir. ::\IAX\\'ELL (Tnowonr;): I giye notice of the qnl'':"-.tion for to-n101TOW.

ThP !'mCHETARY FOR PCBLIG \YORKS: I haYr· aln EM_1y giYcn ~:ou the anS\Ycr.

S'CPPLY.

RESL'~rPTIOX OF Coc.DUTTEE-SECO:'\D ~-\LLOTTED DAY.

(Jir. ]Jr,ztocl·~ (/-n [!Urp, in the chair.)'

CHin :3ECRETAHY's DEPAHT~IE!\T.

:::\liSC'ELLA~EOrS SERYIC'ES.

QtH'stion statPd-That £41.675 be granted for ·· =.\Iisc·ellun0ous 8-r-rYiccs."

::\Ir. EDWARDS (Xawm(foJ: I arn suro that hon. members will agr€'c that ad.-ert.is­ing- the Btat.c i::: a yery important 111atter indf'f'd iu its earlY c1Pn'lor~uPut. I \Yonld stHr2·est to the (~oycrntnent that. instc•ad o( ,_ ndn:-rti-:inu- the State throus.r.h the ~outhCI'l1 Pn's~. theY send to the Southern States a practjf'al ·Inan arn10d with litho­graph, of the dif!'er<'llt holdings to be sub­dividt•d and information rPS)WCting the oppor­tunities offPring in thP '"ay of establishing cecondnn- industri<<·, in thi,, State. 'That would not cnta~l any Y(•ry great eo~t tD the Govern­ment. ~\ man who has had practical oxperi­Pncc, more particular!:· on the land and in conn('(tion \i\-ith the possibility. of growing r-Ntain crops, etc., ·would be better able to <'xplain the advantages that would be obtain<'d by the poople-C'spccially those with capital-coming to aesist in the development

Supply. [3 SBPTE}IBER.] Supply. 56:1:

of our State. That scheme \Yas attempteLl Ycry successful!~- to a certain point by past Governmcntf'. Some hon. gentlen1cn in this Chamber \Yill remember that a past Gm·ern­nlent engage-d a 1nan to go to the Southern States to put Queensland's case before the pro"pectiYe immigrants from those States. The method was so successful that groups of men came to the Darling Downs and other parts of Que1•nsland with their families and brought a considerable amount of ea oital with them. }lam· of those settlers haYe been successful, and many of them have gone a long way towards helping us to develop the State and bring it to its present position. I admit that the Go,-crmnent of that dav failed those settlers at a very critical rime. Large estates were n•purchased on the Dar­ling Downs, and su\'h a heaYy co~t ,ya,:;;

placed on the settlers as made it impossible for them to make the progress that they should have made under that scheme. The method that I have suggested is the best possible way of adn•rtising the State and inducing people \vith capital to come here. That is a much better method than spending large sums of n1onev in adYcrtisino- tho Stat'e in certain Southcn1 JH',Yspaper~ that neycr reach the class of people we dc"ire to secure as settlers.

The position of the people !i,-ino· \Yithin the State is the best possible a-c!Ye;tisement that the State cun get. H undrPcls-I can safely say thousands-of the people living m Queensland, when writing to their friends In other pnrts of the world, arP either giving the Rtat~ a, good or a bad adYerw tis(~n1onl. Th.: na turC of the adYertiseniPnt is largely influpnced by the policy of the Go,-ernnwnt. I am afraid that the polic~­of this Government from an adYertisinO" point of view is inducing undesirablf' in1i1l~ g-rant.s to conJe to Queensland. That is unfortunate. ·we \Yant the best people tD comP here w that thev will settle not onl v ~m the. iand but assist in building up ot!r Indnstne:;:. Tho~(~ hon. n1en1bers who visited and travelled through the Daw~on Yallev irrigation area and portion of the Lp}Je'r Burnett lands have returned imbued with the idc'f~> that great possibilities C'xlst in those t.wo centres but that ca.pir.al and peop],, arc necessary to develop them. I hope that the Go,·ernmcnt will consider mv sugge~tion for advertising the State bv a practiv.tl person \Yho knows the possibilJti( s fmm a productive and industrial point of Yie'v from A to Z.

Mr. CLA YTO::\ (1T" ;,z r lhJ!) : I desire to • .. ay u. few \'i~ord~ in conncetion with the it0n1 "Adwrtising th0 Shte. £4,500." The i1D1ount ~hows an incrca~C' thi:-; year. a.nd, ii we arc to secure the fuH bcn~fit of the> 111Dncv tD be cxpenderl, it is neccs".~rv that a different SYstenl than YYas adopted ·a fc,v years ago should prevail. In 192() £3.364 was spent in nd,-ertising thr State. Out of ihat an1ount £1.473 was snent in adYertising in local ncwspap0rs. and of that amom1t £1.304 \vas expended among Labour news­papers.

Mr. CoLLIKS: Hear. hear! Thev circu­late an1ongst the iUost intelligPnt pc1~~ons.

Mr. CLA YTO;'\: The amount of £1.304 was spent. with the Brisbane " \Vm·ker," the Sydney ""'\\i"orker," the "Labour News," the Maryborough "Alert," and "Truth." The amount expended from the vote last

1924-2 N

year in that clirN'tion \Yas not so great, and I hop/' that tlw expenditure of this appro­pria tion will be made in a different way.

}fr. BEDFORD: Spend it with the financial papers so as to get the money-lenders to· come to Queen.-lnnd.

}fr. C'LA YTO::\: I rt'collect an amount of £4CO ]J(,;ng graiHed to the hon. member fDr \\" atTL'g·o to arh·crtisc Queensland in the nHlQ'rtzir~es of Anwrica. That is the sort of thing hon. members on this side want to 1 urn dOwn. The Prcn1ier did Ycry good \York rn ad,-ertisiug the State while he Wl" "t. home. Am· one •xho read his ad-dress to 1he JZmpirc i)arliamentary At:.sociation could ~ee 1n~ the 1nan\· questions that they ]'Cst:-red th;) hon. g0i1tlernan with at the cqnr~u3ion oi his address that those gentle­rnPn who wer0 :n·iyilegecl to hear him-a~1<1 all ,,ecrioJF. including members of Parha­tncnt. conp:l'P~.n·t(){l tO listen to. hin1-,Yere tl:ir,:;;.1ino- for infor1nation roncern1ng Queens-1anci r~;7d _Australia generally.

The Premie1· was al1le to rep!~- very effec­tiYPly ilnd to gi YC' :"01110 ]ntere~ting inforn1ation concerning ilL' policy of rhc Labour GoYern; Inrnt in Queensland. HP also gaye the genera1 c·onditioii~ existing in Que~:_·n~lancl. I atn.so~Ty that thC' hem. g<'ntletnan n1isll'd the A5soc1ation in on clirPcti~m. HL· was asked the following qnrs1ion b~~ D·octor Chappdl. a Liberal n1Clll­lH'r of the House of Commons-

"' Has it been possible for the Arbitra· rion { ourt to giY(' awards in regard ~o· farn1ing industries'?''

ancl he replied-.. Ye's. Ever since the e,tablishment of

the Court it has giY-n awards in the sugar­industrv for workers etnplDycd by cane farmers. Also. about a vear ago, the­whole of the inclnstr~ was brought under the Court."'

I think that creates an f'ITOIKons impression, and 1nay be the 1nenn:- of pre,~cllting the right t~Y]JC of n1.an con1ing h('l'.P. ProspectiYe farme~·s realise that tiL'Y must find markets for therr product-3 and g.E't sufficient return for the labour tl1c•y arc engaftlng.

I think. on thP \Yholr'. that the Premier­gaY(' y ·r~' goocl ndYel·tif;ing information \vhile in England. I also think that the Secretary for :\1irw-.. the hon. member for Oxley, and 1lw hon. nwmbf'r for Cooroora did a lot. in the way of ad,-ertising our State ,,-h n the.v werP in England. I know that the hon. mem­ber for Cooroora is at presc11t inYcstigating verv thoroue:hlv rhe matter of the butt ,. q{lC~tion in England.

:\Ir. ('m;TELLO: At his own expense.

:\fl-. BEDFORD: And for his 0\Yll benefit.

:'vir. CLAYTO'\: It would be vcrv interest-inp: for thosf' of us who nr' interc,.31 cd in the {lairying indu:-tr:v to hear [~11 addr('gs front the hon. member for Cooroora when he returns and tD haYe authcntir information a'~ to what he has learnt. regarding the h'"'atmenr of our butter in England. Th~ hon. member'& information will be the means of helping u.> to moYe in a \VaT that ·vrill best adYcrtis·~ our various exported commocliti0s. and it should assist u"' greatly in dealing- with the marketing nroblcms with which \Ye are at present con­fronte-d.

I think some of this Yote could be advan­tageously spent on t.he conmilation of a book dealing with the affairs of Queensland. That book should giYc information as to how we-

Mr. Clayton.]

Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

are circumstanced in regar-d to our land la\\s, o1.u~ industrial la1vs. and our ·l·ducationPl ~\·:'-JtPrn. If this were accurateh~ and attrac­tinJv draw11 up ilnrl illustrated, it would be nf gTeat bPnf'fit to u;; in Eng'land. If the• v:ork could not be undertaken bv this State alone, it could be undertaken by the co-OpC'l'a­tive effort" of the combined States and the Commomvealth. The book would broadcast nf'rC~~ary jnfonnation anrl \vould go a lon~~; wa~· in assisting to bring desirable in1migrant.s to Australia.

Mr. FOLEY: The Commonwealth do that now.

Mr. CLAYTO::\: It would ~o a long way to\vards increasing our population and bring­ing out th" right type of settler. A simihr hook was published a' far back as 1880. and I haye a copy in m:v possession. It gu-n: Yer.v exh•nsive information reg-arding !he affairs of Queensland. Thing-s at that time were much more cond:uci,·e to successful immigration than ·the:;· are at present. I trust that the Go,-ern­ment will giv-e my sugg·estion considerat.ion, and spend some of the money from this vote in the ·direction indicated.

I happened to be present recently at 9.

show banquet held at Kilki,-an. a centre 'n mv elect<lrate. I heard there a yerv interest­·in.p; speech from a successful in1n1igrant ·who arri,-ecl in Queenshmd about two years ago. He thought that It was necessary to gi,-e more information to those in the old country­information that would bring out a desirable type of immigrant. He stated that a section of the present immigrants was not desirable. We shoul-d gi,-e greater information and f'ndeavour to give our in1migrants practical experience regarding the conditions existing in Queensland. I think we should g·iye eyer;; encouragen1'E'nt to the imtnigrant ,yho possessf's a certain amount of capital. Such immigrant' should be given practical experience by placing them on the land .. and then. after gaining that experience, the:v should be encouraged to invest their capital in a correct way. 'With their small amount of capital and the practical experience gained i11 the State they would hrrome successful and de~jrable citizens, anii in return would send OYE'l' to England for their friends. That would bo a great way of ~tdvertising the State.

Hon. \Y. H. BAR::\ES (Trynnum): Before the Yote goes through I would like to ask thC> Prcmi<>r ho\\· the amount of £347 for " Grant to Committee of Direction of Fruit :\1arketing " has been spent. :My reason for asking· primarily is. fni5 : I have rffeived a complaint from a fruitgrowcr in the Redland Bav ·d',trict in connection with the marketing of his fruit. I am prepared to • 1clmit tlmt the matter in question ha> been put before the proper department. Briefly the position is this: That the gt'O\H'r in qu 'stion took to the wharf at Red land Bay sixteen casecc of pineapples for export to the South, and, when he got there. hE' was told by a representative of ihe Committee of Dir0ction that he would onlv be allowed to send six cases. The result was that he either bad to take the surplus back to his O\Yn home or send it to some other market within the State. The writer of the letter-

·whos~ nan1e I mav sav is \Yillian1 '[10.30 a.m.J Fielding-states that' he reg-ards

this as hPing an absolut<> tying up of his business. I ought to say in fair­ness that the matter has been put before the .department that more p-articularly controls

[Mr. Clayton.

these things, and the reply from the Com­mitte<' of Direction is that, whilst they admit the truth of his contention as to a limii being placed on the quantity to h0 sent outside the State, they also ''ay that hs had other markets to send to within the State. I would like to know from th<' Premier for what purpose the amount of £347 has been put on the Estimates. To me ir seems that there is an extraordinary state of things in Queensland when men wh<l labonr-and surelv the men on the land \YOrk <IS hard US anvbo.cJv in the COm­IllUnitv-s!Jould be abso'!utel~- tie,cl up and not ailowec! to do with thEi'r own products as thev thmk fit. Talk about freedom! It seems" to me that they are tied hand and foot in eyuy direction.

The PH.El\UER (Hon. E. G. Theodore, ('hillartor): As to the reason for the forma­tion of the Committee of Direction of Fruit :Yiarketing and the policy carried out by that committee. the hon. member shotild raise that question when the Estimates for the Department of Agriculture arc under consideration. The reason for this ,-ote is that the Committee of Direction of Fruit Marketing applie,d for a subsidy for the pineapple industry of 6cl. per case, togeth~r with an amount of £650 to be expended m acl,-ertising. The amount was t<l be spent in aclYertising Queensland pineapple~. The subsidv was not .approved, but It wa:> aoTeed to make available to the Committee the sum of £650 to be utilised in an extensive advertising can1paign, the expen­ditmC' for which was to be approved and supervised by the Commissioner for Trade on b<>half of the GoYernment. The amount on the Ec-timates is the balance of the amount of £650 granted for that purpose.

Hon. W. H. BARXES: Can you give us any idea of the form of that 'ach-ertising?

The PREMIER: 1 am unaware of what is being clone, .but the Secretary for Agriculture is fully au fait with the matter, and will give the inform~tion whe_n his Estimates .are under discussiOn. Thts amount has been charged to this vote becausP no provision was 1nade for it 0!1 ihr E,timates of the Department of Agrr­rulture. and an extraneous C'harge of thi~ kind ;, always charged to the Chief Serretary's DCJll' rtment.

Hon. \cr. H. B.mXES: I will raise the matter again on the Estimates for the Department of Agriculture.

Thc, PREMIER: Tf the hon. member will raise the question then, he will receive full information.

Quection put and passed .

Ho1IE SEcRETARY's DEPARniENT. CHIEF OFFICE.

The HOME SECRETARY (Hon. J. Stopforcl, Jiount .}fo1'gan): I beg to moye­

" That £6,726 be granted for 'Home Secretal'y's Department-Chief Office.'"

That represents a slight increase of £53 m·er last vear. I will giye any information that hon. 'members desire regarding the vote.

Mr. KERR (Enoo[/Pra): I desire on this vote to secure an explanation from the Go­vernment in regard to the tramway purchase. I previously raised this matter by yv-ay of question on 14th Augu.st last. Puttmg the-

Supply. [3 SEPTEMBER.] Supply. 563

matter as concisely as possible. it appears that the total expenditure on the tramway system to the elate of acquisition bv the Tram,Ya~· Trust amounted tD £1,025,303. Tlw strmght-out settlement was made for the sum of £1.400,000. ThNe is a •omewhat disquieting paragraph in the cornments bv the 6t,v editDr of the London ·'Times." ,,-h; has this to say--

" It is anDther indica lion that Queens­land is at last improving her status on the Bri~ish market by getting rid of all contentious 1natters.''

.Se,-eral persons have criticised the matter Df the purchase price, and particularlv a critic in our m:n city, Mr. :Mcinnes, writing in the financtal columns of the " Dailv Jl.1ail." No one will say that Mr. Mcinnes, is not a competent cri tic. Shortly. he says that the shareholders of the late Brisbane Tramway Company certainly ha,·e nothing to complain ·Of. It appears to a layman that there is need for some explanation as to whv there is such a discrepancy between the total expendi­tltre of the late company and the amount of money which we have paid for the svstem. I do not want at this stage to go into the matter too deeply, as I would rather wait until we have heard an explanation of the -discrepancy either from the Home Secretary ·or from the Premier, who recentlv visited J,ondon in this connection. \Ye find that a large amount of money was expended in legal expenses before the matter was taken ~to England. The position seems tD hinge on ·one. point only-whether the company wa.s <'ntltled to be paid the commercial value as a going concern, or the present cost of con­;truct~on, less depreciation, as contended by the 'Irust. The total expenditure which I mentioned as having been incurred on the tramway system to the date of acquisition by the Trust-£1,025.303-made no provision ;vhatever. for dep.reciation. If depreciation JS taken mto constderatwn, undoubtedly that sum would be considerably reduced. The Full Court of Queensland which gaYe the matter consideration held by a majoritv verdict that- '

'' Replace~ent value (less depreciation) was the basJs of assessment of the pur­chase n1oney."

'The minority of the Court found that-" '.rhe basis should be the value of a

profit-earning commercial going concern, With all Its assets and powers."

The majority decision was appealed against and it was decided to take the matter to th~ Privy Council. Eminent barrister. went to L_ondon with the Premier, but the matter dtcl not come before the Privv Council. It was settled outside, and the question now is 'vhether the Queensland Government were justified, under all the circumstances in not permitting it to go to the Privv Council. The majorit.v decision of the Queensland Full Court follow<'d the decision of the House of Lords in 1894 in the Edinburgh and Lon­don Tramway cases. The Melbourne and Adelaide Tramway systems were acquired on 0xactly the same basis-that is, without any allowance for goodwill and on the basis of the expenditure on the undertaking. It is noteworthy in this respect that the Melbourne case went to the Privy Council and was decided adversel,v to the company but in favour of the Melbou~rne Tramway authority. As against these decisions the Brisbane Tram-

ways Company could have cited cases which took g-oodwill into consideration. such ·as the Perth Tramway case and the New Zealand gas undertaking cases. It seems, therefore that there is authority both for and against; but we must recollect that the Full Court of Queensland dec~ded by a majority against the company and m favour of the Trust and t~king everything into consideration: par~ tiCularly the most r<'cont decisions· in various parts of the world, there does not appear to be any justification for the claim of the com­pany. The claim of the Brisbane Tramwavs Company seems to have been for the pap~r value of the assets-that is, £1,653,000-although, when the accountants made their report, there was a shortage in the tangible assets to the extent of £747,770. Taking half of that a.mount and adding it to the expenditure of the date of acquisition, we get approximately £1,400,000, which was the amount actually paid to the company. It looks as if a com­promise were made halfway between the paper assets of the company and the total expenditure in order to arrive at the present value of the tramways. L;nder all the cir­cumstances, according to an eminent financial critic in Brisbane, the shareholders received an exceptionally good thing. The statement was published in the London " Times" that this was a contentious matter disposed of prior to the flotation of the Queensland con­version loan, and one of the inferences which can be drawn is that it was possibly sacri­ficed to the larger consideration of the loan.

Hon. M. J. KIRWAN: If we had gone to the Privy Council, you would have said that the company did not get a fair deal.

Mr. KERR : The hon. gentleman has no foundation for saying that at all.

Hon. M. J. KIRwAN: I have. I will give you something from " Hansard " if you are not careful.

Mr. KERR: In these matters there is one principle which we must follow. We are on safe ground if we stick to the laws of the counti'y. They provide for an appeal to the Full Court of Queensland .and thence to the Privy Council. This case was taken to the Privy Council, but not adjudicated upon bv them. It was taken out of their hands, and the London "Times" leaves room for the inference that it was taken out of their hands as it was of a contentious nature and the conversion loan had to be floated. \V e should have full information from the Home Secre­tary, who undoubtedly has given the matter thorough consideration, and know where we stand. ·when the Brisbane Tramwav Trust Act of 1922 was before us, the Opposition rightly contended that the Government had no valuation of the tramway system. A valuation had been commenced and large sums of money were paid to experts, but their work was never completed. We stated then that :he ratepayers of Brisbane were buying a pig in a poke. They did not know what they were paying, and I venture to sav that the amount which was paid would never have been justified in .any court in the world.

Let us look at the first annual report by the Tramway Trust and see what an obsolete system was token over, and of which no valu~­tion was made bv the Government to protect the ratepayers. The report says-

" Much of the plant in the power house­is obsolete and inefficient compared with modern machinery . . ."

Mr. Kerr.]

5G-i Supply. [ASSEl\fBLY.] Supply.

It further "'YS-.. TlH' Tru~t 's difficultiPs an' aC'c0ntuatecl

be· tlw bad condition of many of the cars, particular].'~ as r0gard:'. obsolete and inefficient motors, also bv tlL· bad condi­tion of the "-hc{'ls. inefficient rnaintenanc8 of the insulation of clf'ctrie tables under­nc·ath the cars, and leaky roofs."

It further ;;avs-" Bt'fm:c the Trust took charge the

traeks and road surfaces had been allovvcd to fall into a serious state of disrepair

I venture to sa:v that the capital Yalue of the trannvay s.vstcn1 after two year~' operation YYill be somewhere in the Yicinity of .£2,000,000. I also heard it stat ·d that bPcause of the big purchase pricP paid for the tramway system thN·2 is a possibility of the Trust being ve"y fortunate indeed if thee- can balance their aerount:-;, let alone mak0 a profit. DYer two :Vt'ar:-;' opPrntions. Perhaps this is noi a tirrw to g·o baek into ancif'nt histor:-. but I do not want to allow the attitude O:doptetl b,, the G-oYPrnnlr-nt at the tim:• to pass vvithout c0111~ ment "-hen thev did not see to it that lh·c ratepayC>l'~ wcr0 fully protected b." baYing a CDI11pletc valuation of th:: tratnv;;av svstem, rather than accepting a paper valUatiOn. I hope the Mini,ter will be able to explain why Yve paid the amount mentioned for the tram­Yvav svstem, whv it \Vas in such a state of dis­rf'l)air:, ~·h:1 thn:e ,yas the discrepancy betweeu ihe xpcnditure by the company and the amount that was paid. and why the-ease was !lOt permitted to go to the P ri YV Council.

The HOME SECRETARY (Hon. J. Stop­ford, .11 aunt JJ orgun}: Y cstcrda:•. the Pre­mi·Pr gave the hon. n1e1nber for Enoggera an undertaking that he would quote the figur~~ of th:• Valuation Board that \'\'ere appointed to deal with this matter. The hon. ~;entleman has inferred that a lot of things happened. If m~~ lllf'morv set·ves me aright. the Premir•r had dealt with the loan matter in London before the case was taken to the Privy Coun­cil at all; it had no bearing on his mission in London. lion. llH'lllbPrs tnuf!t be award that as far baek a;; 1920 the Goy-ernmcnt nppolntc-d a highly qualifictl Board, known as the Tramways Valuation Board, to Yaluc th0 tramway system. Th.y gaye their Yalua­tion then on the basis of replacement YaluoJ at somethin.o; like £1,750,000. No sNtl<:'ment was reached, and v,:hcn the Brisbane Tram­way Trust Act was passed and it became necessary to fix a basis upon \\rhich the price of the system would be settled, thmo valu­ations Wf'l'C no longer of any use. The physical condition of the tramway and its >tock and assets had depreciated during the period of three years \Yhich had elapsed, and th<' price of material for replacement had <1lsn altPrcd clm·inp; that period, so that the Tramway V a !nation Board were compelled to Jnake a funlH'r ,-a]ual-ion.

l\lr. T.\YLOR: \Yas that the sam0 board 'I

'J'he HOJ\1E SECRETARY: Yes. They \\'ent OYer their work again. The Brisbane Tramways Company hac:l a Valuation Board also, and both Valuation Boards worked fairly harmoniously togethN in making joint requests for the price of any machinery for valuation that any particular firm had an agency for, and in working together a con­siderable amount of expense was saved. On the question of the physical Yalue of the tramway system each Board determined that for themseh-es. based on their expert opinion. There were three determinations made by

[Mr. Kerr;

the Tran,,vavs Valuation Board. The first. was the prir!w cost as at 1st J anuar\', 1923 . The Board stated that to replace the existing undertaking at that date "·ould ha\'e cost £1,773,228. Then the Board determined what they called tho physical condition of the assets at tho same date, allowing for depreciation of the wear and tear of the Yarions items that constituted the assets. Thev reduced their valuation then to £1,282,958. The Board then took a further deduction, which they called " further depre­ciation on account of the expiration of the lease at Countess Street." That is the power station of the system. Under this heading the;~ aliowed a depreciation of £144,622. The Board under the heading of '' inade­<}Uacy of the rolling-stock " allowed a further snrn of £29,733 for depreciation, giving a final vcduation of £1,063.231. The Board did not take into account the unexpired franchise of 12~ miles of tracks, for which thev could not arrive at an estimate. That brought the value of the trams to what might be called a physical condition standarJ, but the trouble in England was the contention by the Bris­bane Tramways Company that the system had a value greater than the physical condi­tion standard.

JUr. TAYLOR: \Vhat was their Yalue?

The H0:1IE SECRETARY: I do not know. The company claimed that there yyas a further asset in the shape of goodwill, or com­mercial Yalue. and that this factor had to be taken into consideration when taking ovel­a commercial undertaking. 'l'hat was the· point the PriYy Council \\·ore to be called upon to decide-the basis of valuation on \Yhich the Land Court of Queensland would decide the que,;tion of compensation. As t·he hon. member for Enoggera has stated, the Solicitor-General. accompanied bY Mr_ ]-[. D. N!arrosoan. went to London ,\-ith a full knowledge of local conditions. In Lon­don thev briefed as counsel Sir John Simon -a ypr·v eminent counsel who has had a distingu-ished career and has appeared in manv cases of a similar character. The­reason why the case did not proceed to the­PriYv Council was because Sir John Simon advi~ed that. although he felt confident that the Priy-y Council would not. recognise any claim for goodwill, it would probably deter­mine that the basis upon which compensation ~hould be adjusted yyould be the replace­ment valtw of the assets at least three years. prior to the sYstem being taken over. In other words. h<· was of opinion that compen­sation would be determined on the basis of what it Yvould cost to enable the system to be constructed and completed probably within three year' of its being taken over. Thr> Yalue 1vould. therefore, have to be assessed' at the prices ruling for wag-es and material when the Valuation Board made their deter­mination of £1,750,000 as the then replace­ment Yalue of the system. Sir John Simon and other counsel advised that, if a settle­ment could be reached at a reasonable figurr> -in the vicinity of £1,500,000--and legal and other incidental expenses saved, the Trust would be well adyised to accept a settlement along those lines.

The Secretary for Public Lands. who had charge of the early negotiations in connec­

tion with the tramwaY busi­[11 a.m.] ness. and I met representatives­

of the Tramwav Trust and dis­cussed the matter from every angle. \Ye con­sidered that, if we had confidence enough to

Supply. [3 SEPTEMBER.) Supply. 565

;;end legal representatives to the other side and to brief Sir John Simon we should be guitkd by the leg:ll advi~e of thoso gentle liCll and settle on tho lines thev adYocatcd. Our representati\ es were succes;­ful in set1ling at a sum of £1 400 000. Sir John Sinwn. ·with his considc~·ah1'e experi­<:>ncc, stated that that amount was much less than the ;n·ice of settlement would haYe bee11. ba,cd upon tlw replacement Yaluo at ihe period he quoted.

~hat is all 1 he information I can give at th1s Btagc.

Th~ CILURYIA::'\: I •vish to point out that l eau see no yote here for lhe Brisharw 'l'ranm·ay Trmt. ~\s I allo"·cd the hon: men1ber for Enoggr-ra to 1nake some remarb upon the subjed, I thought it oni,­fan· that the IIomc Secreta re· dwuld reply. ~-\ny {!eha tt' wtll be m order, provided it IS conhncd to any l'('fPrencc to thf' Trannnn~ Trmt that may appear in this Yote. but 'r cannot allm\· hmL nwmben to o·o further into th< details of the Tram\~aY Trust SPttlement. •

:Ylr. :YIORG.\:\' (.ll11ri//a) : T deoire infor­n1ation front th0 Ilomc Scf'rctary regarding the pra('1 ice~ of n·l0asing p:!_·isoners. I knov: thP sy:3terrl has bc·en in YOITUO for n1an\· year,_ and I do not wish to s~ggest for on'c moment that the present Government are in«u~~:urating a differ0nt ~vstern from that· followed b:c p·eyions Goyei·nments. In nw opinion the nresent syBtf'tn is most nnGatiS­factory ~ it is 1111fair, and in 1nanv cas0s unjust. u

So far as I cau nndcrst and, pri~oners have been allowed out of gaol Ul){)n tho Tt:!~(lll\]J1('11datlon of the I-Iome sf_~eretarv­I an1 not referring specil!callv to the presCnt Home Secretary. ·

Tlw HmiE SECRETARY: That rs not a ·general praC'ticc.

Mr. :\10RGA:\': It l1lfl)' not be, but it has lxen doow. The point I wish to make is that it would be much hotter if a board "Were constituted to deal with cases that were <:>onsidered harsh. I feel conf1dent that manv lllPll in the past have been able to ge't out of gaD] Lcc-au:;e of P<Jlitic.:al influence 'being u.,ecl on their behalf.

J\11-. \YRIGHT: Prior to 1915. perhaps.

:Ylr-. MORGA:\': Those men are released ·only_ to be brought back again after com­mitting unothf~r and 1noro serious offenee. Onl,- during the last fc'w weeks we had the exampl<· 0f two men who had both been spntcncecl to death being set at. liberh. Thry again comm i t1 eel cri rn0s and recei v~d further ''entenccs. One commit!Pd a murdPr at Ronw, and recPiYed a lif0 6£'ntenC'P. Another man who ha·d been sentencGcl to death for a brutal murder was released after ::;:elTing· a c·omlwrutiYelv short. sentence. lie again con1n1itted a cri~c and has now been BPnteneed to three years; his offence '''as robbery with Yiolence.

I think we need a Letter e.Ystem. I also unde,·;,tnnd-ancl this practice' has Loon in force for some years-that the Home Secretary, \Ybcn tnaking an offiC'ial Yisit to St. . Helcna. or any other gaol, allows a rGmi-:_sJoll of three "\reeks or so off the sen­tences Df prisoners. It is a sort of act of cl, nwncv. It m a v be- very nice for the Home Secr:etarv to make himself appear a g00d fellow among prisoners.

'The HmJE SECRETARY: It is the practice on his first official visit.

::Wr. MORGA~: It is the practice usuallv followed by tlw Home Secretary Dn his first visit to the prisDn after his appointment. but I do not think it is right. If it is thought that a sentencA is too ~·e.-ore, or· because of ill-he>Llth of the prisoner or some other rir­cunlstanC'e, a remission of the sentenee should take place. I an1 not against a remission of the sentence if it is justifiable, but what I object to is that there is no sot rule appl:<·ing to the remission of sentences. I would like to know from the Home S'ecretarv whether lw would favmn· the appointment of a board to deal with every application for the remis­sion of a ,:;:entcncc. SnC'h a board would do awav with the influence that 111aY bn used b\' politicians to get some prisoner 'out of gaoL It is no use saying- that that has not been done. \Ye know it has been done times out of number. and the time is ripe when a different svstem should be instituted and ey,ery pri::;~rH~r should haYe the ,:;:ame con~ sideration. The present system is a bad system. It is not fair to the prisoners, and I would lik0 thf' Hon1e S0cretary to give an expression of opinion based on the experience he has gained. I am SDlTY that the late Home Secretary, :VIr. Appel. is not present. because he had many years of experience, and I suppose that he let just as many nrisonprs out of gaol, if not more, than haYe been IN out bv am· other Home SecretarY. Bnt simply berau&e' Home Secretaries in the past ha.-e let men out of g>Lol without get­ting all the information necessary does 110t in any way go to show that the sy~tem should be perpetuated. I would !iko to have some­thing eYen more than the report of a judg-e before a prisoner receiYes a reinis-.ion of his sentence. I do nol think a repDrt from the judge who inflicted the sentence is at all satisfactorv. I know men ha.-e been let out of gaol ag·aimt the advice of the judge. A board consisting of three judges could be appointed without additional expense to the StatP. and the extra work involved w0uld not bo in an:: 'vay embarrassing to the judges. Such a board could inquil'e into every case whPn an application is made for · a rpmission of the sentence, and it should considn each case on its mPrits. ~o doubt circuln:::tances ·will arise ,vhen a. prisoner should have some clemencv exi·enclcd to him. That is pD'Sible. and it 'is ·only right that clemencv should be extended to such a. prisone1:. but at the present time we have no system. Remissions of sentence are granted jndiscriminnteJv. One man mav Bucreed in being releasPd. aft·cr sPning- six months or fhe vears of his sentence. while another man who· h".s no political pull is comnelled to serYe the full s~ntence allotted ID him.

!\fr. HARTLEY: Some people who should be in gaol succeed in keeping out of gaol.

Mr. ~10RGA:\': \\'P must not attempt to deal with those who ha.-e not succ·eeded in getting- into gaoL It is those ,.-ho have suc­('cedrd in g0tting into gaol with whon1 've should -deaL They desen·e fair pla v and fair treatmenl. which they ar·e not getting at the presPnt tin1c. Snme are g·etting more t.han a. fair share of lenienC.\', and that has been shown repeatedlY by the fact that men have committed further offences almost immedi­a'elv aftpr thn· ha,-c been released. I would like' to know· whethf'r the Home Secretar:v has anv f\g-urcs available as to the number of men who ha.-e got back into gaD! after

Mr. Morgan.]

566 Supply. [ASSE~IBLY.J Supply.

h•ning had their previous sentences reduced. It is quite true that the treatm;omt of prisoners has been considerably altered dLu­ing the last twenty or thirty years. While at one time prisoners were not tr·eated fairlv in the gaols of Australia or in the gaols of the world, we now endeavour to make them comfortable while they are in gaol. \V e now endeavour to reform them by kindness. The gaols are now made so comfortable with pic­ture shows and such things that many prisoners, as soon as they get out of gaol, "ant to get back again. They look upon the gaol as home. They consider the world out­side as being too hard, and a great number of them want to get back. Anything that can he done in the >vay of reform of prisoners should be done. If we can reform one prisoner and make a useful citizen of him, then we have done good so far as that indi­vidual is concerned, and anything that is done to reform a criminal and convert him into a useful citizen will always have mv ;mpport. I do not think the present system is up to date, nor does it work satisfactorily, and I should like to see the Home Secretary introduce a system under >vhich everyone will get fair play and there will be no fayours to anyone.

The HOME SECRETARY (Hon. J. Stopford, Mount 1lforgan): In r·eply to the hon. member, I should like to say that at the present time there is reallv no definite svstem a~ to the ren1ission of seritences.

:\1r. JI.IORGAX: That is what I complain of.

The HOME SECRETARY: A large amount of the remissions given in Queens­land is the r0sult of recommendations from the Comptroller of Prisons on account of good work performed by the prisoners. I have been going into this question for some time. My personal belief is that we could reward a prisoner in a 1nore effectiYe way. and I am trying to obtain some method wherebv lw "over-task bonuses " we shall get the sam.:: result from the prisoners, and when the pnmner leaves gaol he will have a sufficient amount of money to his credit to giv·e him a fair chance to make a start. (Hear, hPar !) My short experience in the Home Seerctar;~-'s office has taught me that the worst criminal is the best prisoner. The man who has had experience of gaol life soon learns that it pays him to obey orders and to do eyerything possible to win the favour of those in charge. A prisoner who is not a criminal in the sense that we would regard him as an habitual criminal resents the disci­pline, and is continuallv in conflict with the authorities and does not earn their goodwill.

I think that a system of ihat descriptiu" would be better than gi.-ing remis,ions for ~ood work. The cases that have happened latelv are in a large mrasuro due to the fact that rt:n1issions of a ver;v g€.merous nature were rnn•n in this State, but the position is not what the hon. member suggests. Th,, remissions wcrP not giYen indi:;criminatcly. but w£>re based on a scale acc·ording to the seJJtf'ncc r•f th' pri·-mwr, so that the individual ·was ]•1 no wav takr•n into account. \Vith rf'gard to r('nli'-'sions of sentence, no remi'!sions hav0 ht'en granted "off rny Lnvn bat " unless recnmmenrl d on arrount of g-ood work bv the Comptroller. or unless the prisoners were' ablP to shmy tha r there was a rt'asonablc pro~peci of their being·. a~ first offrnch'rs, taken in charge after thev left the gaol and o·i.-on u fresh start in life. But in regard ~to anv remissions of sentcnce I think I can safel}-

[Mr. Morgan.

saY that in ea'" of o.-cr three months the· Ciibinet haYe ah:vaYS insisted that the matte~ shall be remitted t'a tlw ju,dge who 'entenced the prisoner, for his comment.

2\lr. T.GLOR: Do the Cabinet consider the qupstion of ren1ission as a Cabinet responsi­bility?

The HO:YIE SECRETARY: Ministers take the responsibility, but they invariably ask for a report from the superintendent of the gaol in which th? prisoner is serving his sentence.

Ho». \Y. H. BAR::'-JES (1F.71nnmn): I rise 1vith a two-fold object. The Minister has partly dealt with the matter I wish to refer to. I do not often ·disagr.ee with the 'hon, member for ~lurilla, but I do not ngree with him in his statement that the hon. member for Albert, when Home Secretary. no doubt p-rflnted lliOl'C remissions thau any prcviou~­Minister.

:Ylr. M:ouGAX: I did not mean to say that.

Hox. W. H. BARXES: I wonlcllike to say. as a member of that CahinPt, that W<' nev<>r thought of granting any remission of sentence to any man without first of all getting a report from the judge who gan' the sentence. [ might say that very frequently a judgf' him­self, if he ihinks that a man is worthy of ;;;omP f'onsideration after the senL1nce js imposPcl, ,,-ill write to the Hotn<' Secretary, >Yho invariably pa"es the matter on to thE' Cabinet and advises that something should be done in a certain direction. The HomO' SPcrPtary is quit-e right >Yhen he says that no DilC adnlini:_;;tcring the departnlc·nt " off his own bat " would take the responsibility of letting men out indiscriminately.

I am .-ery glad that this .discns,ion has cropped up, because in the interccts of the· cornn1unity there are some things on this Yoto which want cloaring up. I want to deal with mme mattcn anrl nsk the Home Recretarv for information thN·eon. Recentlv we had infor­mation ihat a man who conunitted a murder -which the judge <aid was one of the worst casps that he ha'd eYer known-was released: a ft0r serving SOlll{' seven yPars of his sentence I can hardly think that the judge who tried him for rnunlcr recommended that that man should lw set frc0. The Home Secretary has. indica tu-cl how th<-se things ar·2 happening, and he has said that the Comptroller of l'rismlR has something to do with it. and that peopk >Yho arc often the worst prisoners know lwsi how to behaY.' thcmseh-e, in prison. The point >Yhich strikc•s me is that apparently too much attention has been given to someone­who is not the judgf'. and possibly too little attentinn tn th · judge's con1n1Pnts. It is a lravesty of jnstice. Realising· that f'YE'ry n1aR

has a right to mend his ways, surely it is the duty of the State to help a man who has fallen to l<'ad a beit 'r life: but it seems to Bll~ Cln awful thing that a n1an who ha~ been com-icted of murder should be released afte1• serving scy·en years of his sentence, and that one of the first things he does i.- to start on hi' ea.rccr of crime again. I 11·ould like thfl' Home Secretary to make some statement, as the people chould know the position.

The Hol\lE SECRETARY: I made a statement to the Press.

Hox. W. H. BARXES: No man respect'> th PreS< more thnn I do. but this is the time to aRk the Home Sccrde t;y in this Committee, because we are th<' l'ar!iamcnt of Quef'nsland. whether thPsc things have happened. I trust th:' I-Iorne Se('retary wiJl g;iye us ::o1ne infor­mation in connection with these cases.

Supply. [3 SEPTEMBER.] Supply. 567

Then there arc other things which >Yant ad]mtmc·nr. as the hon. member for ::\1urilla pointed out. I do not know whether it is the l>tw \Yhich wants amendin" but to me it is an awful thing that a n1a~; can do ''"hat no parent should ever do-I speak seriously­and that he should tamper with his own da ught•er and then get one of the most moderate sentences in the world-a sentence of a few months. I say there is something wrong . . The HmrE SEC'RETARY: That is not a ques­

tion for the Home Department.

Hox. \V. II. BAR::'\ES: The Home Secre­tary has something to do with this indircctlv · at any rate, it all hinges upon the questi;,;l of puni·hment. I am sure the Home Secre­tary will realise the grave matter I am britF· ing· before the liouse-I do not do it lio-htlv.:"__ I .say there i~ something wrong in con~ection \nth the buswcss. I have no sympathy with the man \Yho embezzles, but apparently an (~n1bezzler Is a gentleman: but the 1nan \Yhu would be so Yile as to tamper with that which B g-1ven to hun by the Almio-htv is inde·ed an astound!ng thing, and I tho~1ght it my duty to bnng the matte~· up thi$ morning. I trust the whole matter w11l be gone into verv Sf'riOusl~v br the Cabinet as a whole in ordc~r to find out how ,it is that these shamc·ful loop· holes arc:. Inanifest Hl connection yrith our sy:;;ten1 of jnstice to-dav.

The HmiE f'>ECRETAR1:: That is the judge'J SP:ntence.

I-Io:-;. \Y. H. BAR::'\ES: I am not blaming the Home S,, crctar,·. It would be manifestlv unfau· to come along and sav that he w,;,, blamable- for what the judge did. but there is somethmg· wrong in our law if that is the state of ihc la''" in this particular direction.

T; · C ::.-\IR:'IlAX: Order!

Jlox. \\-. H. B.ARXES: I will lca,c that subjeet. I am prepared to admn, :Nir. l'ollock, that you haYe allowed me a httle lantude m that connection. hut vou have realise cl the importance of the matter, and that IS n1y reason for touching on it. I iilll glad that the Assistant Home Secretarv is in his seat on thC' front bench at this juncture. \Yhat. I want to ask the hon. gcntJcn1an is if tl10re have been anv irreo-u~ lariti"s in cmmection with the '' GolSen Ca<>k.et" lately that are unknown to the ]JU~hc. I am advised-rightly or wrongly­I ao not say that I a m correct but the matter is of sueh importance that' I have a right to bring it before the Committee-I an] a-ch-ised that there ha ye been irreo·u­lurities, and that smne n1en haYe b~en .cJismiosecl consequent on irnwularitie' in the diredion of altering the t~umbers of the prize wiruwrs afit'r they ha,·e bePn read out. I do not say that the statement is correct but it has' beeP brought before me b,: ,omeone "hom I regard as a reputabl~ Cltlzcn. I want to know whether some Jr,en have been {}ismi,,sed because of those irreg·ularitics-gh-ing J>rizc m-oney to "\Yhich those who g·ot it were not entitled. I am conscious that when I raise the point 1ny actio11 may be 1nisjud~ed b0cause I an1 i1c opposition to the " Golden Casket." but that does Eot count with me. I ask if any men have. been dismissed, and if moneys were pa1d to men who reallv had not the winning tickets. Ld me sav that I am a6 certain as I st.and on mv E'eet that everything- that the Assistant }finister has clone in that connection has been absolutely

straight and abon'board. I \Yould [,e Yerv unfair if I tried to drag in the hon. gentle .. man, because I think that his a<·tion in connection "·ith all matters has lwen irre­proaehahlc. Bnt I ask, haYe any n1cn bPen di':'nlissed? I-f aye any ~noncys bCen paid to men ,,-110 tampered with the list of \\·inning numbers~ and if so, haYc the proper ''"inners-· l'eceiYecl prizes? If n1en in r0reipt of calaries haYe deliberatclv done su('h things,. why were they not prosC'cutcd? \Yhere 'is the law to-day if th0se things can happen?

}lr C.\RTER: \Yhy do you not make a ehargc?

Ho,. W. H. BAR::'\ES: HI do not g<et an answer. I an1 going to .a:3-k a question to­JtiOlTO\Y.

11r. IVAHREX (Jfu,·rulnhu): I take it that we ought not to intposP -sentence~ on prisoners merely IYith the idea of punish­mont. I ·rlo not think that >Ye should gi,·e a n1an ten years for ~ome rri1ne ~i1nply to punish him for that crimP. I thiuk that •re nut him in gaol in tl](' first place simply :':D that h(' n1ay not be a n1enaee to society, and in the second place to giYc hin1 an opportnnity to rrfornL I an1 of opinion that many people- think-and I belicYe that it is e.-en in thP minds of judges to-day­thrrt it is simnly a matter <lf metiug out punishment. If wP do not g·et a1vav fron1 this iJca of 1ncting out p\1nishme;1t. \\-e shall ne.-cr do "' ,\·ell \Yith the prisoners as we ~hould_ It is .n ~Seriou~ 1nistake to put men \Yho arc moralh· decent inside pri~on walls. ·

Tlw CI-IAIR::\IAX: The lwn. member will not be iu ordt'r in d isrussinp: the general quPstion of imprisonment on this vote. He will be in order in dealing \Yith the romis­eion of sentences on this vote. ·

::\Ir. \VARHE::'\: I bcw to vonr ntling·. }lr. Pollock, and I shall deal ,,.{th the rpi1tission of sPntc11ces. So far as the remission referred to h.- the hon. nwmber for \Yvrmum is c-on<'C'l'IJC<l the Ilon1c SccrC'tarv is Y0rv unfor­htnatc. A judge has n1acle ~o'n1P Yer~· ·;:trong remarks about it, and I was in a barber's ··hop this morning >Yith the hon. member fo1· Rosewood y,·hen a r0putable citizen of Bris­ban(' rais('d the question. I think \Ye should kr.o\v sorncthing- o.r this partirnlar ca:'C and understand whv 1"hc 111an conf'erned \Vas allowt'd out of' gaol and beC'ame a 1nenac0· to socictv in a Yerv little >Yhile. I sav that the ':\Iinister is i·esponsible rather than· the Cabinet, became the Cabinet does not vo into the case as the }Jinister does. If this 1naP was r<·lca~ed on the re('omtnenda­tion 0f the· :\1inister and he U('<'ame a dangeJ"' t.) socieh'. '''e ,arC' Pntitlc.,,CJ as ffi('mbcrs of Parlianwi1t to ask the hon. gentleman >Yhy i" hai')Jened. I do nnt say that there is not a littJ0 exagp;0ratio11, l1ut IY0 do hear' constantly that this practi<c is becoming a p;reater tuenace under the present Govern­Jnrnt than t:YE'l' L0fore. and. if 111011 arc being rp]ea"'d nracticalh wholesale aft<'r a short r.;ortiou of their sel1tencf' is served. it is tirne the Minister rcview0d the matter. It is also· time he reviewed the ,dwlr '>"Sll'm of the treatment of prisoners. I w;mt to know whetlwr the remarks made by the judge who tried the man to \Yhom I ha,·e rrlluded wer" correct. and whether the ::\Iinister takes the res.ponsihility of rc1Pasing· prisoners ·who· l1econ1e a danger to the con1n1unity soon. aftNwal'{k

Mr. Warren.]

5GS Suppl>t. [ :\SSE:\IBL Y.] Supply.

Tlw IIO:\IE SECRETARY (Hon. J. Stopfonl. .llount Jiorr,an): Juclg·c :".lac­naughton did rnake f'orrw co1nment:) upon a certain ca>e. as he had a right to da. but he wa~ \Yrong iu saying that he wa..; the judge vd1o had tried the prisoner. as the case- had been tried lw :\lr. J nstirc Real. The man coucemccl ,; as found guilty of mur,lcr and sentenced to death. The GoYernor in Council decided not to carrv out tlw sentence but imposed instead one of irr1pri:-;onn10nt for fifteen year~. According to tllP Prl':"'3 l'Pport thP 1nan got a r01ni~sion of thirtt'cn years. but that wa~ wrong. \Yhat happPued ,. a' this: lnder the Prison Regulation~ prisnnPrs arc entitled to a quarter rc1nission of their sPntences. Thjs 111a.n got a qnarter of his tcnn off. or three year:-; nnd nine' 1110llth::;.. Then he got the

!)care• rrn1i..-.;ion. ba~cd on a ~calc dctl'nnined )y th0 CabitH't. which gave hirn a further

three year~ ofF. a11d ah-·o a l'l'Dlission of ono ~.·ear. kuo"\nl a.s i he prisoner:'' rernis:'ion. Ho al''<) ·got ~ix wet'ks' ren1ission. upon the recon1nH~l)(lation of the ConlptrollC'r-General, for good work pe>rfonned.

i\Ir. T.nr.on: Do thosp remissions apply to all sentenc0s '!

The IIO:\IE SECHETARY: Yes. I have had a request from a deputation of chaplains -of the gaols. "·ho arc vi~iting the prisons e\·er_y _day. asking n1e to give an a.dditional rernr:c.~ron on acc:ouut of the Brisbane Cen­tenary.

Mr. KELSO: What remission did this man get on your first official visit?

The IIO:\lE SECRETAHY: I do not lmo,v that he was t.here ,,-hPn I made rr1v first official visit. but \Vha1cvcr ren1is·sion i gave it was gi>en equalh· to all prisoners The ·chaplains naturally 'ihought that it ,;·as an -excellent idea to give a further re1nission on account of the Centenary. but I told them that I was not g<Jing to give .anv remi.,sion on that ground. At the time ·peace was

.. declared everybody f0lt happy and humane and dt>sirPcl to cln something for those less fortunate than himself. and the remission was give11. This n1an received a remission equal to that of the others. and not because he had more friends than any other prisoner.

::\lr. KERR: Did he actuallY scrYe his sentence of fiftePn years? ·

The HOME SECRETARY: Ho served that.

Hon. \Y. H. BAHXES: \\'hat about the "Golden Casket" prizes?

The HO:\IE SECRETARY: I ha Ye not got the information at pn'sont. hut I am getting it. ,

Hon. \Y. H. BARXES: Do vou saY that my stat0rnent i, not correct? " '

The HOME SECRETARY: I could not say. The ··Golden Casket " is not under the control of the Home Secretarv. but under the control of the " Golckn Ca~kl'l " Com­mittee. quite apart from the Home Secre­tary's Department.

Hon. \Y. H. BARXES: \Yill you get the information?

The HO:\IE SECRETARY: Yes. I hope to have it b,- the time we reach the vote for hospitals. mid I will give it then.

Mr. KERR (EnO(J(fCra) : There is another matter I want to mention on this vote-the method of iilling vacaucies on local authori­ties by the Gon'rnor in Council. I dealt

[II on. J. StopforcL

''"ith thi' maiier during the municipal eloc­ti:on.--. In mv electorate two Yacancies occurred in o-ne of the divisions of th+J :J.Ioggill Sbirc Council. The Governnu~nt

ha vo se<>n fit to override the [11.30 a.m.] recommendation of the local

anthorit...- concerned and n1ake no partisa:' a.ppointments. One of the appointees I' notorious for his partisan­ship. The other appointe0. l understand. was the s<'cretary of the \Yorkers' Political Organisaticn outside the shire. :'\either of these gentlemen is liYing in the division for \vhich thee· wore appointed. The Govern­rllent .-;a\Y fit to m<1k0 those appointment~ in face of tlH? rccomrnenc1ation of the residents and th" shire council that two residents aiTJ"N'd to uv thP council and the other r~sidents bo ~ appointed to the 110sition. Thev have li n'd in th,, clistrict for many yc·P.l:s and arr' ea paLl~ and efficient men. I want an 0Xl)lanation-I an1 justified in ask­ing for it-a~ to 1vh;: these appointments haH' been made. The Moggill Shire Council pas:-;ccl t bj-, resolution-

" That this council desires to 0ntcr a most emphatic protc>t agaimt the aJl· pointment made b_v the Government to fill the two vacancies in the X o. 2 diYi­sion of the shire.

'• They would point out that they made it the Jirst businc" of the agenda of their iirst meeting to nominate two eminenth· suitable candidate;;. both of whom a're residents in the division of the shire in which the vacancies occur­rod. but that the Government paid no rcgarJ. to tht\ir rc-ccmn1enda Liun but appointed two n1ctnbers. in no \vay n1ore suitable fo1· the vacancy, and neither of whom resides in ihe division for \Yhich the:v were appointed."

Suhsrquent);; I had i he pleasure of intro­ducin;l· a deputation to tho tlwn Assistant HonH' S0c·etan·. tlw Hon. F. T. Brennan. At this stag-e i:' am rompelle<:l to say that {luring· my four years' cxpC'rienC'e a;;; a lllC'nl~ lwr nf Parliament I haYc not received such disC'Ollrt0sv from anv ~Iinister as I received at the himch of the then Assistant Home SPcrf'tarv. It is Yen: 1-::anl for 111P. to find \Yards ~~ describe the. discourtrsv with which he received the deputation. I· am sorry to ha Vf' to ra isc the question in this Chamber; but \Yhcn I head a deputation of my con,ti­tnents to deal with a fair and just matter I expert to ht' treated courteously by :Yiinistcrs_ and I exneet the gentlemen whom I take thou, and who represent the residents of their districts to be treated with courtesv also. "

Hon. M. .J. KIRW.\X: ·who was dis­C'Onrtcous?

Mr. KEHR : The pres0nt Secretary for Publir Instruction. I desire to haYe thP 1nattcr placed on record in '~ I-Iansard." and I hope that such a thing- will never ocrur A g-ain. Three residents fron1 i\tioggill formed that deputation, and this is the reply that I received as a result of that deputation-

" vVit.h rcfC'rcncc to the inten·iew of vomsclf and three resident~ of ::\ioggill ~vith the Hon. the Assistant Home Secretary. an the 26th instant, regard­ing- the appointment of ::Ylessrs. Doylo and 'Woodcock as Councillors for DiYi­sion 3. of the Shire of ::\-Iogg·ill. I haYe the honour to inform vou that. in pur.suancc of the responsibility imposed

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111lOl1 thf' Goyernor in CounC'il. :~\TeoSsrs. lloylc, ami \Yooclcock were appointed nwmbers of the :Yioggill Shire Council to fill the vacancies caused b,- the failure to hold an election. \Yith rPganl to your contention that the Governor in Council should have appointe-e! the pcr­~ons rccomlnc:nded by the council. I aut ·to point out that the Goyernor in Council is not bound by the representa­tions or l'(-'COHl11101H1a1 ions of the ~ouneil in the matter.

\Yith regard to YOUJ' objection to the appointment of :Mr. \Yooclcock on the gTound that he is not an elector of :Yioggill, I h:;Ye to point out that any l'iector i.; qualified to Le olected or appointed a tnPmher of a local authoritY. 'This is a condition which applies }n parlian-c•ntar:l, eleetions. and has alwa\,·~ applied in r(•gard to local go '>'f'l'llDH~Dt p]eetions. In fact. tlw }foggill Shire Cnnncil has on ::;eyeral ocrasion~ had a dtairnwll '"ho wa~ not a residL'nt of the area "

Hon. :YI. J. Knnnx: vYhv did not those pt:ople \Yho WC'l'L' so intere~t{~d nominatP fo1·

-J:he vlPction?

:Ylr. KERR: The hem. gentleman evideutl:v does no1 understand th(' position. Let 1110

explain a little fu.rther. One of the norninet•~ unfortunately was just too late with his nomination paper, and it was not acrc1)h~d by the returning offic·er on that ac·count. I-Iis nomination pa]Jer ·was signed. b'lt he was too late. That man was subsc•­qnPnt1v r~·{'urnmnedcd to the shire council .and th<' rt•conimcr;dation was agreed to bv the council and forwarded to the HomP Secretary'> office. but in face of that ~not~er n1an. who is a partisan. \Vas appomted. In the other case at the ven· last rnomcnt tlw non1ine0 was rPquestcd n~t to stand, and unfortnnatelv t,hero was not sufficient time to complete· another nomina­-tion paper. Immediatelv after the election his name was submitted' bv the residents to the local authority and ,\·as Tecommended and forwarded to the Home Secretary's office. In that case, as in the other, this man was turned down and a partisan was appointed. The petition p1·csented to the Home Secre­tnry's office r-ontai,ned the nan1es of 98 per cent. of thr• residents of the district. but the Government have not seen fit to reverse the action they ha,·r• takPIL '\"otwithstancling ni,v representntion.;; and t.he ]'('presentations of the reeidents. the position still exists. In the early stag·es, when it was found that two reprc,entati,-es wNe still required on the shire counciL I telephoned the Homo SPc­retary's office to ascertain thP proper cours(' of act ion. and I was told that the council at its first meeting should nominate two suitable men. ThP chairman of the shire

·council was in my office when I telephoned thP Home Secretary's office. The dav after the council mc_eting- the hYo nanH'~ ,,-ere forwarder] to the Home Scrretarv's office. and I ;hink about eight da.y,; aften;·ards two other nanH.'r; \VPre gazetted. a.nd the council was informed that those two gentlemen, ·who were not· nominated b:v the residents. and who wer0 not nominated bv the conncil were appointed. It is reprehensible to se~ anv Gn;-ernn1ent doing what \Ye can call prostl­tuhng· loeal g;ovcrnment by .appointing their own supporters. The time has pas,ed for (;oveenn1cnts to take anv ~uch action as ±hat. I am not going to· say that the men

appoint d nwy not be as effiricnt in carrvinrr oul thclt dutic:-', lmt the GovernlliL'nt i1av~ acted ~·iJnhar:v to the spirit of the Local Authontws c\r·t. What is the use of placing· lcgtslrr!IOn on the statute-book unless vou

. are go111g t~ carry it out in its prop0r spi1:it? I knov;~ that the GoyPrn:nent can n1akc auv UJ)pointntl'nts thev desire. ·

Mr. F. A. Coo;•EH: The Act does not per­Hilt; it authorises.

:Mr. KERH: I·: the hon. gentleman can ''.cc an_y diffcronre, thc1~ he is drawing a, very fme !me of demarcation. I think it has OC('lJll'Cd only onco before in Queensland \YhPre a local authoritv's rerorntnendation has been O\'<'n-ulcci. \Ye ~lo Hot know when tlw Great0_1· Rrtsbano schPillO is con1ing into UJF"rahon. Thorc an:! one or two big works t,, be carried out in the ::Uoggill Shire. It has been 'tatecl vorv freeh that the Secre­tary for AgricultnrC has ~ selection in n1v electorate, and it is proposed to build mai;, roads. Ther~· is going to be a good deal of expense in that shire on that main road. These two men. recent!,- appointed to the i\Ioggill Shire Council, ,;re going to have a vote on certain matters. and I now ask the Co,-ernmem ~o do the right thing and demand tlw res1gnatwm . of their two appointees, n ntl ha vr~ an olcet1on, if neres:•;ary, or .appoint thP men recommended by the council.

lion. ?d. J. Kmw.IX: Do vou run the show': ,

}lr. KERH: The Government should do the· rigl1t thing.

The bell inrlicl<terl that the hon. gentlo­nwu'~ 1 in1e had expired.

:\lr. T.\.YLOll (lrind.,or): Th0 matter rnij3ed lJv tlH?- hon. ruember for Enorrcrera sl1ould l1ave the Yerv serious conside1;1.iou o, the Gm ernment. , '\"o doubt. \Yhat the,­did in uppointing the two ITH'.n ronccrnf'~l was perfect!,- le~uL but at the same time I think it was most reprehensible. especially t on~l~1enng· that rbe. local authority made certain reeonllilclldahon::- .and presented a. petition witll regard to the matter. If there i~ power for the GoYernment to make appointmr11t' to positions that haYe not been fcll0d at an election, then that should onlv b(' ·dOlH' wl-:011 it is shown that a n1ajorit~~ of the electors de,ire that it should be done. \V e \Ye re• told that one candidate's nomina­tion wa< not lodged in time. It should have bcL•n lodgH:l in tinlC'. and there is no excuse for anyon0 not lodp;ing his nmn1nation in tinw. He could haYe it in davs before if ho chose.

:Mr. JYIORGAX: That does not justifv the appointments that have been made. '

::Ylr. TA YLOR: 'That is so. It is a rep re: hensible practice, and one which, if allowed to continue. is going to degrade local govern~ ment \York. 1\'o Government should have the power to do what the Government did in this particqlar imtance, and the hon. mem­ber for Enoggera was quite justified in drawing attention to the matter.

Mr. MORGAC\ (Jiurilla): The hon. mem­ber for Enoggera has performed an impor­tant public duty in calling attention to what ha.ppPned in c·,)nnection with the appoint­ments to the Shire of Moggill. When an nppointmcnt has to be made to fill .a vacancy in the' FedNal S-enate both State Houses ,,f Legislature meN-or in the case of Queens­lane! the Legislative Assembly merely-and

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570 Supply. [ASSE:YIBLY.] Supply.

make an appointment. An appointment to fill a Yacancy in the Senate "as recently made in Victoria by both Houses of the StatG Legislature. If representatives of a local authority who have been returned by ihe ratepayers meet in the same manner and make a recommendation to the Government· to fill any vacancy, that recommendation should be respected. Those members who have been elected bv the democratic vote of the people a:re hurniliated if their recom­mendation is turned down. No more demo­eratic principle co11ld be conceived than the principle of one adult one vote which pr-e­Yails in the election of our local authorities to-day. Notwithstanding the fact that the members of this local authority were elected on that franchise, the Governm<mt saw fit to turn down their recommendation and .appoint other persons who from a political point of Yiew were more fitted to represent the Gm·ernment than the views of the people (·oncerned. Hon. members know that the electors have two opinions in regard to the <'lections for local authorities and for the State and Federal Parliaments. A great manv electors who Yote for socialistic can­didates in the State and Federal elections Yote against Labour nominees in the election of local authorities. The reason for that is probably found in the fact that they own a little bit of land.

Mr. WILSON: That has not been the case 1 hroughout Queensland.

}.lr. MORGAN: Socialistic candidates have certainly succeeded in being returned in Brisbane. ·

Hon. 1\1. J. KJRWAN: The whole of the Ithaca Town Council is composed o£ Labour mPmbers, who are local residents.

Mr. MORGAX: The hon. member for Fortitude Valley must realise that he secures a great many votes at the local authority elections from people who do not vote Labour, because he is looked upon as a moderate.

The CHAIRMAN : Order ! Order ! Mt·. MORGAN: That fact shows that,

whereas certain people hold one set of views for thd State and Federal Parliaments, they hold another set of views in local authoritv elections. ·

Mr. \Vrr.soN: How do vou account for the het that a man can hold a seat on a local authority for sixteen years on a property qualification. but directly the adult franchise is introduced he is defeated?

Mr. MORGAN : The hon. member could fill such a position just as admirably from a capitalistic as from a socialistic point of Yiew. The hon. member for Enoggera is to he commended in bringing forward this matter, as the action of the Goyernment was not justifi-ed in any shape or form.

Hox. \V. H. BARNES' (Wynnum): If the hon. member for Enoggera had not raised the question on this Yote, he would have been absolutely failing in his duty. The position is that the shire council elected by the pt'ople made certain recommendations, and, for some reason or other which it is not hard to guess. their recommendation vas thrown to the winds.

Mr. KERR: For political reasons. HoN. W. H. BARNES: I quite recognise

that the Home Secretary has the right to appoint anybody resident in Queensland to a local authority. Does the hon. gentleman not think in connection with local authority

( lrl r. M organ.

work that the person who lives within the· area is better suited for the position of member than a person brought in from out­side ? The successful man in connection with' local government work is the man who has interests in the local authority itself. This so-called policy of the Government is most extraordinary; it is not just. If democracy does not mean justice, then something is wrong. It has b-een sug·gested that the appointments were made for political reasons.

Mr. KELSO: Spoils to the victors !" Hox. W. H. BARNES: Some one has a

pull, and that pull has beeu in the direction of not doing justice.

The HOME SECRETARY (Hon. J. Stopford, Jfount ,l[organ): I am not con­Yersant with the facts of this case, and the Secretary for Public Instruction, who, while· acting as Assistant Minister, dealt with the matter, is not present.

::'vir. MoRGAN: He ought to be present.

::\lr. COLLI:::\S (Bo1cen): I am surprised at the speech delivered by th<J hon. member· for Enoggera in regard to the appointments made to the Moggill Shire Council. A similar case occurred in mv electorate in the Wan­garatta Shire CouiJCil. Three nominations were required for one of the subdivisions, and onlv two were received. Those two· \vere reti.uned unopposed, but a third repre­sf'ntative was r~equired. Q.uite naturally my 'Upporters wired me to get a Labour man appointed, which "·as quite right.

Mr. NfORGAN: \Yhy did he not nominate?

}.lr. C'OLLIXS : The other side misfired, and my own people misfired too. What was­wrong with a Labour Government, when they· had the opportunity, appointing Labour supporters to those positions? (Oppositio1Jt> dissent.) Never since there has been respon­sible government in Queensland has a Labour supporter been appointed to any position at all when hon. members opposite have had' eontrol of the Government.

Mr. MoRGAX: Yes-to the Upper House.

Mr. COLLINS: \Ve have set out to look after our own interests, and we are entitled to do that by appointing on local govern­ment bodies men who a.re in sympathy with our ideals.

Mr. KF.RR: But not against the express­wish of the residents.

::\fr. C'OLLINS': We have been told bv hon. members opposite that the Governmeriir· han, done something wrong.

Mr. KERR: So you have. Mr. C'OLLI::--JS: \Vhen I was speaking in

this Chamber the other day I was told we ought to tako the mote out of our own eyes, but hon. members opposite want to pull the bc·am-whieh is a very big one-out of their· eyes. . The Labour Government, as repre­senting the Labour movement, would be· doing \vrong if, when the opportunity offered, they did not appoint to all such positions men in accord with them and the ideals of the Labour movement.

:M1·. DEACON (Cunningltam): If I under­stand the position and the remarks of the· hon. member for Bowen, then men should be appointed to local government bodies­because of their political ideas. I hope that the Home Secretary will gh-e the CommitteE> some explanation, a' the case as outlined by the hon. men1ber for Enoggera is a scan,.

Supply. [3 SEPTE~IBER-] Supply.

dalous one. \Ye had two men recommended for the council-two men who were not wanted, but who were pushed by the Govern­nwnt and appointed.

:\Ir. KELSO : Thoir appointments to the Upper House were always Labour men, too.

:\Jr. DEACO::-J: The others were turned down because of their political opini{lns. If tha;; sort {lf thing is going to be carried on, the Governm.•nt are certainly not going to do any better than they accuse the Tory Govern­ments of doing. Thev said it was wrong for the TorY Governments to do such things, yet here W<;hav·2 the Labom· Government appoint­ing two men who are not wanted by the people, simply because of their political opinions. It is altogether wr{lng for cou':· cillors to be sclccL··d on account of then· political opinions.

J\Ir. KELSO (Tundah): I hope some <>xplanation will be given to the very serious statemcnJ made by the hon. merr,ber for Enoggcra. Of course, the Assistant Hmne Secretary and the Home Secretarv are qmte right in' saying that the:-· are not 'rcsponsib1e for the appointm<ent. Will the Home Secr-e­tary assure us that an explanation will be given at some subsequent date?

The Hmm SECRETARY: I am not the respon­sible ::\Iinister.

::\lr. KELSO: The hon. gentleman does not expect the Aesistant Minister to accept the responsibility? The H{lme Secretary says that he can g·iye no explanation--

The Hmm SECRETARY: I do not know what '""~ in the late Assistant Home Secretary's m·incl \Yhen he made the appointm<'nts.

:\Jr. KELSO: Will the hon. gentleman promise us that an explanation will be mad at some subsequent period?

'l'he HmiE SECRETARY: No. I say my coll<'agm• \Yas perfectly within his right', according to the Act, in doing what he did. I do not know what eYidence the hon. g·entle­man had before him.

Mr. KELSO: We all know that Jhe Local Auth{lrities Act g·ives the Minister discretio!l, but was tlw step a \Yise one? The hon. gentleman ignored the reco1nn1endation made to him bv those concerned. Does the Home Secretary. justify such an action as that' I think the hon. member for Enoggera \Va> quite right in asking fo1· an explanaJion and for assuming that, unl ss an explanation is giYen. the Dnl:v inference is that the Minister made a straightout political appointment.

GO\'ERX>IEXT :11E>IBERS : Hear, hear ! and laughter.

;\Ir. KELSO: The hon. member for \\'\ nnum, when I interjected, " Spoils to the Yi{'tors !" would not go so far as to say that it was a political appointment. He made his 0wn gtab~lnent in his nice. gentle way. SonlC' Df ns on this side say \Vithout resorYation that it was an unadulterated political appoint­ment.

Mr. WEIR: Quite right, too.

Mr. KELSO: Y.es. according to the bunch in that corner. It seems to me to be a reflec­tion on the H{llne Secretary that eYen at short notice he is unable to g·iye an explana­tion in an important matter like this. Tlh' matter certainly calls for some explanation. Is the 011inion of the ratepayers and the men ele<·ted bv tlw ratppayers in a dem{lcratic way to he ov,·rl{loked '?

:.Vlr. CoL!.JXS: Y. ou ?houlcl say " elected by the people."

Mr·. KELSO: The hon. member for Bowen is an awful " stickler" for the use of thE} word "PeopJ.c:," \Yith a huge "P." In thi::> ca;;e the local authority represents the people -that will perhaps suit the ideas of the late leac!Pr {lf the Labour party, the hon. member for Bo\Yen. That being so, the Minister has seer1 fit to oyerride the -decision of the repre­sentatives of the people. What effect is that going to have on local authority government j h1·ourrhout the State? The effect will be that the n';'en appointed to local authorities will fpeJ that in anv action taken by them the I-lome Sccretar,:~ n1av stE'p in and reverse its effect. I say it' is a :wrong thing to introdu?e political influence into local governrnent W{lrK. The hon. m•mber f{ll' Enoggera is justified in his request, and I am only sorry that we cannot get some explanation for the. 1:10st undemocratic decision at whtch the Mtmster arri\'ed.

ThJr. MAXWELL (Toownng): Tho hon. member for Bowen state-d that this was a per­frctlv justifiable thing f{l[' the Minister to <:lo. The{r party are in power : they ha Ye th<' opportunitv: and it is a. case, as the hon. member for =" unclah int rjected, " Spoils to the Yictor~." I think it irs a wrong- th111g to introdw·e political influence into local ~·ovemment work. I have aril'ued t{l that ~ffect else,vhcre. In this case the h{ln. me;n­ber for Enoggcra. stated he has behind h;m 98 p<>r cent. of the people of Moggt!l Shne­and the ::\Ioggill Shire Council. . Those people Pxpr<'ssed an opinion that eertam men should he appointed. Instead of that, we have people appointed by the Government. I ai_n not go1ng to sav anvthino· as to the funcllons of tlw .bsistant Hom<:' Sccretar;; at the time, bt~t l contend that the introduction of J?Ohbcal influPnc'e into local gover111nent \York IS ~;o1n7, Jo ha' · a detrimental effect on the State. \Vhen Labour members were in opposition thev ach-ocated in similar fashion, but they HJ't."- no,,· changing their Yicws. Notwithstand­ill" tlwt. we find, the " Standard" and other Labour papers on Yarious occaRions cor~?­plaining that the p ople thPy represent oo not gef a show at alL a!'d that the: Labour GoYl'rnmcnt are apporntmg men \nth 'l'or .. Yie\YS.

It is a deulorable position at ,,-hich we have arriYed. I. h{l].d no brief for thos_c m~n wh_o "\V'-'n' ,o ucgligent as to delay sen(hng 1!1 then .. nomination Dapers, but I find fault wnh rho ::\finister. who is supposed to have no pohhcal hi8s, carr:vlng out the instructions giYen by· a poliiical institution. It would appear that we are introducing the system \Yhteh 1s called· " g·t:aft" in America to-day. To follow the aro·nment of the hon. member for Bowcn to a logical conC'lusion, as soon as the present Gm·ernment ,-acate the Treasury benches and 1 hose bench: s arc occupied b:v the present Opposition, w<' would be justified. in clearin_g out the whole of the men appomted by thm GoYernment f{lr political purpos-es. That 1s a \Hong idea, and I say th~ hon_. member for­Enoggera is perfectly justrfied m dcmandmg­an explanation, for he is SUJ?POrt<;d by 98 per­cent. of the people of Mogg11l Sh1re.

The Assistant Home Secretary has no right to be silent on a question like this. ~e knows quite well \Yhat has been done. \Vhy IS he not man enongh. like th<• hoti. men~ber for Bowen and other "ban. members oppostte. to say that this was a political appointment.?

::\1 r. COLLIXS : appointment.

~aid it was a Labour

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572 Supply. [ASSE:.\IBLY.] Supply

:\Ir. :\L"XIYELL: I kiw<Y you dicl-not a Conu11uni~tic al)vojntrnent.

At 11.57 a.m .. Tl!r. F. A. CooPER (JJrcmcr), one of the

r;anel of Temporary Chairmen. relieYed the Chainnau in the chair. ·

i\:Tr. 1\JAX\YELL : vYh:· does tho hon. gcrJtlcnwn \'•:ant to r>ut the responsibility on to rl1c late A.s.;;i:-.tant Hon1o Secretary·:

The H0:lr£ SECRET.IRY: How do I know what was in his rnind '.Yhcn h(! n1udo the t.q-:poiutnlOllt:::i '?

Mr. :'IIAX\YELL: I am not dealing YYith tlw Home i"NTE'tnry. I am dealing with the late> .... -\ .. ::'listant Hon10 Secretary, under \\·horn tl1e Local Authorities Act h; adininis­!crecl. If tho hon. gentleman YYill only g:ivc U'-' an a:-.surance that Ueforc passing all the Estimates of the Home Secretary'a IJopartment he YYill inquire into this matter 2nd givu us the necessary inforn1ation, we shall kno\v \Yht•re wo r1 re.

The H0:llE SECRETARY: \Yhat information cnn l giYo '?

Mr. :\IA::\.\YELL: It is no good the Home SecrPtary butting in on thi~, becaww the udministration of that departrrwnt is under th~ Hon. C\1. .) • Kirwan, and I am asking tl1at gentlcrnan for inforrnation; I mn not botherins about the Home Secretary. It is :no good the .. A .. ssistant Home Secretary try­ing to shirk his responsibilities. Mr. I3reunau. as AF-sisrant l\linister, is the 1nan ·who wa'-:1 rcr;ponsibL::- for doing a certain thing. LWd surely in the archi,·cs of his dc·1"ntmcnt he has the information. vYhat is the object in currying on business in this >raY·: I beliPve that a number of the apJ'wiubucnts that have been 1nade have bPl'll madp nndcr instructions from the Ti·<Lrle' Hall. 1Governmcut laughtPJ'.) \Ye haYe an example of it this morning.

:\Ir. CoLLTXS: They ha Ye boon pulling :.,our leg.

i\lr. 1\IAX\YELL: Hon. members always know where I am, but I am bothered if we know whore to find the hon. member for Bm1·en. who;e attitude recently may be SLillllllt.'·(l up in the \vords- ·

" \Yhile I agree with the sentiments that hav8 b0cn expre,s<e·d by certain n1en1 ber,., opposite, I am going to vote IYith the Uoyernmcnt."

That is what some members of the " Corner varty" sa.v aml do. Can I possibly persuade the hon. gentleman who hail only just taken office in the Home Department to give us this information' He is the individual who is l'f'S)lOJJsiblP. It is a Yery serious thing so far as thf' Opposition arc concerned. You, ::VIr. Cooper, are interested in local authorit:," \vork, and I venture to say that. if your local authoritv made a reeomntcnd'ation to this Govern1n~nt as to the appointment of a certain individual. vou would -l1ave something to say if they flotitccl your rccon11nendation and \Yont right out­side your area and appointed bvo men with r~ronounced antagonistic politica.I view~. I am glad lo bo associated with the hon. memher for Enogg<'ra, and I am certainly a,tonishcd a.t _the attitude taken up by the .-\sststant J\Im1ster. \Ye were told that the Hon. ill. J. Kirwan. as Minister adminis­tering· the Local Aulhoritif's Act. would be a ~trong nutn. I \Vant to see some of the strength lhat the hon. gentleman has got.

[M1·. Maxwcll.

Hon. ::VI. J. KrRWAX: You will not catch me with that ;,tuff.

Mr. i\IAXWELL: :'\o. like Samson. he has had his hair cut. and. having it cut. has lost his strength. (Laughter.)

[12 noon] Mr. WEIR (.l[uiyborouuh): I am glad

1 o hear that tlw Oppm•ition have got some­thing to con1plain allout. It i8 quitl' refresh­ing. The hou. llll}rr1ber 1or Too\vong appeab tD thP ..-\..ssi~J-ant }1inistor io be drong: he HlJlH:-als to his strength. The l\linister has done that which yyc think is right-which I think is right-and tht~ hon. rncmber for Toowonq· said also that the Trades Hall clorr1inates certain appointnH~nts. I ·wish to goodness it did.

Mr. KELso: You beliey·e in political a ppointmonts?

l\lr. \VEIR : I ahvays did. I am one who believes that e1·orv council 1s !Jotter for having Labour men. in it. I would be happy to see one or hro Lahour men appointed in thP Tory stronghold of the hon. member for Toowong. \Y c killed all tlie Tories but two in my council. and, if anything happens to the other two, I hope we shall be able to get in Labour men. and I hope that. if we go to the l\Iini•tor and ask him to put in Labour men, he will follow the example of this l\Iinister who was strong enough to do the right thing.

:\Ir. :\foRGAX : He should bo strong enough to follow the rccornnwndation of the council.

Mr. \VEIR : The Labour organisation in my district has always taken the responsi­bility of making Labour r.ominations, and they expert a Labour GoYernn1ent to pay attention to these nominations. 'What is wrong with that"

Mr. KELSO: Y on do not believe in an Opposition?

l\Ir. WEIR : I believe in domination by the people. I believe the bnlk of the people are behind the Labour Government. and that is why we are here. ·

Mr. MAXWELL: The bnlk of the people aw not behind you.

OPPOSITION MEliJBERS : Hear. hear ~

Mr. WEIR : I am assured that they are, and that is why \Ye are o1·er here. Fancy twenty-nine members saying they represent the bulk of the people ~ If they represent the people intellectually, then God help tliis State! This is the same old axe that they wielded which is now falling on their friends, so why the noise' \Ye suffered this axe· for donkey's years.

1\Ir. CoLLIXS: For sixty years.

Mr. IYEIR: \Ye suffr'rrd this axe for sixty years, and thoy did not shm,· any sympathy. What about the gentlemen _in tbe l"pper House. which they packed with their friends? \Yhy, some of th0ir men were appointed in the days' of Queen Victoria. and it was left to " Labour Go­Yernmcnt to kick them out. Thev would ha YC been there yet but for a Labour Go­vernment; vet they squeal over appoint­ments to a t~yopenny halfpenny shire council.

lVIr. FARRELL: Fancv a 'Ton· Government administering the t'nemployed \Vorkers Insurance Act?

Mr. CLWTOX: \Yhat dirl tlw 'l'olicc Journal" say about TOll·: ILangbtC'r.)

Supply. [3 SEPTE)IBER.] Supply. 573

:\lr. F.1RRELL: I had wfticient intelligence nor to make a >JlCech on the Police Act Amendment Bill.

}lr. CuiTO:\": I \Yould not tell lies about them, any,vay.

:\Ir. WEIR: I hne not the slightest idea who made these appointments. but I want t,) compliment \Yhoever did make them on baYing done the decent thing tov.ards a Labour recomnll'ndation. \Ye have put up with thi> long enough. Hon. members opposit" han• cloue this sort of thing for over fifty ~ear.3, and we Rl'l1 going to do it for a few years. \Ye want to get up to the stage when ''" arc '· fifty !Hty" with that •:rmvd. 'fhev did it for fiftv vears and let us do it fm: tiftv vcars ana then 'we shall be on a l0vd with them. I want to remind hon. nwmbcrs of this fact-that the bulk of the failun._'S in State enterprises and other industril·s we ha YC triC'd to run has been clue• to the fact that tht• nwn in control ar• nut in s~'rrlpathy \Yith Labour, showing tllat \Ye \Yant ~on1f'thing done there ~in1ilar to what has boon clon0 here. (Interruption.) \Ye made the serious !J!under of listening to the other sidP and not making political appointments. I blame those ~who were respomible for listening- to them; that is what the trouble is: they should ha Ye put in charge people with intelligence.

}ll'. KEL~O : That is rough on the men running the State enterprises no,v.

Mr. ·wEIR : The failure of State enter­prises is due to want Df sympathy with Labour adn1inistratiun. Is that dear? I believe it is true. and I believe the failure in local g-oncrnment is dnp to want of sympathy \Yith Labour administration. Look at the Lear garden we had the other cla v! That was a fair sample of local gm-ernme'nt by Tories.

0PPOSITIO:\ l\{E)!BERS: \\'here was that?

Mr. \VEIR: At the last Local Authorities' Conf<'rence.

:Vlr. KELSO: What did his Excellencv the Governor say? V

:\lrr. \fEIR : The Gon•rnor is Eot a poli­tician, Dr should not be. and he does not sco it fro1n our point of VH~"·.

1\Ir. KELSO: \Yhat was \Hong with that conference?

Mr. \VEIR : One represcntativ0 there. Mr. R. J. "'C>bster. drew attention to the fact that fo1· three clan thev had bc<'ll pa~sing "· number of rcsoiutivn', ·and had got nowhere. He called it a bear garden.

Mr. DRA~D: He did not sav that until h.:o was defeated for the preside-ncy.

:\lr. \YEIR: Maryhorough refused to send a re11rescntatiYe to that conh1 renC'c bccau:-;e 'VC do not belif've in ~endi11g reprcsentatiYC's to a bear garden. That shire councils are a. r<'fug-e for political derelicts has hecomP a stanJing jokf', and 1 he sooner we insist on getting intdlectual Labour men on thco couPcils to do th • work, tho bott er it will bo for the State.

:\lr. CORSER (lJurnr tt\ : The hon. mcm­ht:>r "-ho has just roslL:..ned his -seat spoke of the intclli!lent ,;edion of the community as though Labnur rcnrcsentecl that sectiDn. As 8 1nember oi Parliament representing Labour people and ~]ving expression to their rcquire•nonts. I mmt remind the hon. mem­ber of his own otr,tement with regard to the

Shakespearian busiuc:::s in ::\Iaryborough, where the ll"l""' rcpDrted ::\Ir. \Yeir. mem­ber of ParJian1ent. a:'; saying that he admitted that ]ln was not one of the intelli­gc:t :-:ortiou of the community. (Laughter.)

:\lr. VIEIR: \Yhatevol' vou are I am the oppoeite. If you are inteiledual, I must be the o)lpo.iite. (Laughter.)

}lr. CORSER: That IS m0 hope, ~ anv rate. I-Iowcver, 'YL are discu:-:sing the action of the Home Department with n•gard to the ::\Iog·gill Shire Council. and the actions of this Gm-ernment are supposed to be almJo· the linPs which thev aclyocate. They rlnirE that they are n.-dvoc~lting denlo­cratic idea". \Ye know that in our demo­cratic ,;hire coLmcilo, as created by the Go­Y0rnnlcnt, we havP to~day reprcsentatiYcS­p]ected on a po],ular franchioe-adult suff­ra~·c. \Ye lwYc 98 per rent. of the residents in --th(~ :Vlog;gill Shire { 'ouitf'il area petition­ing for Hw appointment of two men who l'L 1 ll'P~ent their scnt-imcnb and idpas: 1Jl~t tlw Government have tume·:l down that peti­tion r.nd put thPir O\'dl ideas into 11ractice. \\'here is the dcnJOcracv in that'! Is there not rca&oll for a proh~~t .against this abuse­of d0n1oeratic princi1ll0s? Are w0 not hero controllcri by tllC' Trades r:all as ag·ainet the \vi she, of the pPoplc expressed through their reprc~entatives in Parlian1ont'? The hon. nwmber has rcf0rred to the actions of Go­Ycrnnicnts for the past ."-ixty ;vears. I an1 not responeiblP for those actions. but I do sav that fm all the good things past GoYern­ln(,nts haye ·done for deinocracv, wlllch rr1ade poe,iblc a Labour Gon'rnment. ·we ha Ye had nothing jn rt'turn but nnfairnes::;:. Hon. lJ1crnbC'rs opJ}ositP boast of having closed dO\nl the L0g-islatiYc Council. Perhaps there arp reasons wh,- it should haYe been dosed dov.-n. I am" not cnmnoured of a non1in0e 1-Ionsc. and for that reason I mn g·oing· to assoeiatC' it \vith the rnattcr before us. I an1 again::;t a nominee Upper House nppointed bv the Goycrnment. But . why ,hould the GoYcrnment want ID nonnnatc two individuals a~~ menlbf'rs of the ~1oggi1l Shire C'ouncil aga imt the wishes of the p0ople in tho district? The party opposite ·were opposed io the syf'tctn Df 1~0n1inating the nwmbrrs of the Leg-islative Council by the Exccuti,·c. nnd \vhy should we not pro­test ao-ainst their art ion in appointing nren who a;,. nominee' of the T,·ades Hall ag·ainst ihe \vishee Df the peopl0 in the ::Ylog-gill district' :'\ot only have they repudiated the principle of the ref0rendnm, but the,· haye substitntc•d iu place of the Legislatiye ('c.uncil tlw domination of the Trades Hall C'YPr Labour in politics.

The hon. mem!wr for Rockhampton asked ns to nicturc a Torv ndministrator in the f'tat<' Ins"rance Office. but let us picture. as \Ye have hPrc. a Labotir socialistlr or ron1n1n~ nistic administrator as the head of the Council of Agriculture. \Ye have there as eha,irman a n1an who rlain1s that he if> out for "produc~ tion for use· and not ;or profit." \Yhilst it is no1- lP\' dc:::-irc to rai:"c th€' point. I mu~t nrctc'-t iu:rain::-t the in1nrc,~ion which thf' hon. member for Rcckhampton \vished to make \vhen h0 asked what \\-ould happen if \Yhat hP termed a Ton· Minister wa.s at the he>ad of ~Ort1f' organi~at~on created hy Labour. Tlw unfortunate part of the business is that there is nnt a }linister \Yho can exnlain the action ~f th0 past Assistant :Winistel".

An 0PPOSITIO:\" ::\IerBER: They are Hot "game" to.

Mr. Oorser.]

574 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

::\Ir. COHSER: It appears that "mum" i to be the word. and that they are not going to explain 1vhat he. as a member of the Gm·ernment, has done "off his own bat" a£;ainst democracv. As it is a matter which affect-; the franchise and the desires of the people, we should have an expression of opinion from those who are responsible for this action.

:Ylr. H\RTLEY: \Vhat proof have you got that it "' ag<Iinst the wishes of the people?

:.\1r. CORSER: Because 98 per cent. of the people in the district petitioned the Home Department for the appoinbnent vf two other gentlemen to the positions \n question.

:.\Ir. liARTLEY: How do you know there were 98 JlPl' cent.?

:.\1r. CORSER: Be<·ause 98 per cent. is statod as the percentage which srg,h•tl the petition.

::Yir. HARTLEY: :1\onsense!

:.\Ir. CORSER : The hon. member for the district has made that statement, and I Lelieve him.

This is not the onlv matter of interest in this vote. We find that there is provision made for the continuance qf oomething that we applaud-that is, for public clinics and the care of children where the parents have not private means or the possibility of doing it. I ·would ask why there has not been provision made for such assistance in our newly settled districts, in which we are settling hundreds, and in some cases thousands, of people, and where there is no medical atten­tion a\·ailable. Our first care should be given to extend the system of baby clinics to the country districts, in addition to the pro­Yision made in the cities and larger towns. On humanitarian grounds, we should pro,-ide what is essential for the safety of the children and mothers in our new districts where the reople ar·e without medical assist­ance.

Hon. M. J. KmwAX: VIe have started maternity hospitals in the back-blocks and clinics in the cities. Do you not think that is a good policy?

Mr. CORSER: Yes, in some districts. The maternity hospital provision is all right, but I cannot give to the :Minister or the Govern­ment all the credit for that. We know that it is the public of Queensland and Aus­tralia who are providing these maternity hospitals. It is the " Golden Casket" funds which arc providing the money for this pur­pose. I do nnt think the appropriation could be put tu a better purpose, and I congratulate the l\Jin;stcr 0n the application of these funds to liospitals and maternity hospitals. In the ::\Iundubbera area there have been, and t-here are now, agitations for a maternity ward in the hospital in that locality; and it is to be hoped that thP Minister will see the wisdom of establishing a maternity ward at the l:ospital at Mun­dubbera, where to-day ono of the nurses lras to sleep in a ·hessian-walled room under­neath the hospital as the building is so crowded. These facts have been made known to the department by deputation, and 1 trust that the Minister will find it possible to afford maternity provision at a very early date. ="ot onlv is it essential in the l\fundubbera district,· but in the Biggenden area there is also a desire for such accom­modation.

[Mr. Corser.

At 12.20 p.m., The CIL\JR)IAX resumed the· chair. Hon. IVI. J. KrnwAx: They ha Ye a very

fine ·hospital. Mr. CORSER: They have-so fine and so

much used that there is not room for the proper housing of the patients without the maternity provision which has been promised by the department. Everything is in readi­J:ess for the c xtensions, which are urgently needed, and wo hope that the Minister will soon announce that carpenters are going up to build the nurses' quarters, part of the cost of which has been proYided bv the local people, and to make a start on tqe' maternity wards, which are absolutelv essential. It is to the credit of the department that very fine maternity wards are just about com­pleted at Gayndah, although that proYision might not have been possible had it not been for the " Golden Casket" funds. I hope that the hospitals in the remainder of the district and throughout Queensland will receive the fullest consideration, including the earliest possible establishment of mater­nity wards where needed, but especially in the country districts, where in the interests of the State every facility should be given to the women and children.

Mr. CLAYTON (TVide Bay): I would be very pleased if the Minister would listen to the few remarks I have to make on this vote, because I think that one of my sug­gestions might mean an amendment of the Local Authorities Act which would be of great benefit to the people in country districts. Under the Local Authorities Act, 1902-1920, Third Schedule, Rule 5 (d), a person whose name has been wrongly erased from a roll must make a declaration to that effect before a justice of the peace.

Hon. M. J. KIRWA:-<: That is the prin­ciple in connection with State parliamentary elections.

Mr. CLAYTON: I£ a voter has become a resident in an area in which a local authority election is being held, it is necessary for him to make a declaration before his vote is recorded, and I. would suggest that, instead of having to make it before a justice of the peace, it would be sufficient if he made it before a presiding officer.

Hon. M. J. KIRWAX: Will the hon. mem­ber send that suggestion along?

Mr. CLAYTON' I am making the sug­gestion now. In the Shire of Kilkivan, where recently an election was held, the presiding officer had to hold people in the booth for a considerable time until a justice of the peace came along, so that they might make declarations, whereas. according to my suggestion, the presiding officer could have witnessed them and no delav need haYO occurred. I hope that the Min1ster will look into the matter and take steps to amend the Act or the regulations. if it can be done by an amendment of the regulations, by insert­ing a proviso that a declaration ma,y be nmdc bdore a ]Jresid ing officer and not necessarily be for<' a justice of the peace. Furthermore, when such a person makes a declaration, I would suggest that his vote be placed on one side so that it ma? be scrutinised by thP returning officer at a later date. instead of allowing it to be dropped into the ballot-box as has been d9ne on many occasions. Once such a vote is dropped into the ballot-box, the returning: officer has no control over it, and I would

Supply. [3 SEPTEMBER.] Supply. 575

·prefer that it should be put on one side so ·that the rcturnin'i officer may go mto the matter and see that the voter exercised his vote in proper order or otherwise.

I do not intend to make a long speech on this vote, but I have something to sav with regard to the recent Hospitals Act, ·and I would like to know whether we can discuss :it on this vote.

The CHAIRMAN : There will be an -opportunity to do that on the vote for "Hospitals."

Mr. CLAYTON: I suppose that I must also discuss police matters at a, la tor stage on the " Police" vote?

The CHAIRMAN: If hon. members de-· sire, they ca,n raise a, discussion on the whole of the Estimates for the denartment on the vote for the '' Chief Office.'' At the same 'time, they will not be allowed to go over the .same ground again on the other votes.

Mr. CLAYTON: Thank vou. Mr. Pollock. I give you a,n assurance th'at I will not dis­

·cuss the " Hospital" vote when it comes ·along, but I ma,y not be here at that time, and as it is a m&tter of interest and con­

·cern to me I shall mention it now. The Maryborough Muncipal Council have moved iu thP direction of having the Maryborough hospital, the Lady Musgrave hospital, and

·the Ambulance placed under the provisions -of the Hospitals Act which was recently put -on the statute-book. I may say that, although I cannot agree with that proposal, nevertheless, something might be done in

-that direction. It will impose great hard­ship if the Government create a district under the Act, because they will thereby call upon the ratepayers or the landowners in the va,rious shires which will be included within it to contribute a, share of the cost of •upkeep of the hospital on a land valuation basis. It is absolutely unjust that a, man should be victimised because he happens to be a landowner.

Hon. M. J. KIRWAX: Wha,t basis would you suggest?

Mr. CLAYTON: I oppose any suggestion ·to raise funds on tha,t basis, although the Act makes that provision. The Government would be wise to introduce an amendment basing the contribution on income rather than on the ownership of land. A farmer may own land of the unimproved value of £800, and yet not make or,e quarter of the income of a professional ,r,an in town who may have an allotment worth onlY £50.

'That inflicts !'ardship on the settler," and is not conduciv,e to ]a,nd st'ltiement. I think a.Il cc,lmti·y m~..'nlbt.•rs-~I ll~lderstand that ycJu, Mr. Pollock, represent a, country district­would welcome the placing 0f this tax upon incomes rather than upon the man whom we call the backbone of the country. That is the man you harass under the present system, whereas the wealthy class who are in a position to keep up the hospitals are not doing it. I look forward to a,r. earlv amend­n•ent in th,:. direction. It is only right tha,t a Labour Government, who pretend to look after the interests of the man on the land, should tax the large incomes instead of taxing the poor unfortunate settler who is harassed enough a,lready by climatic con­ditions and very poor markets.

OPPOSITION MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Mr. CLAYTON : I sincerely trust that -~omething will be done in that direction in

the near future, and I guarantee that if the present Govern1nent refuse to tax i~comes this party, if they ever are returned to th~ Government benches, will see that somethiug in that direction is done.

:Mr. COLLIXS: Your crowd is exempting them in the Commonwealth Parli>tment. [12.30 p.m.]

l\llr. CLAYTON: I am not responsible for what 1s done m the Commonwealth Parlia­ment.

The CHAIRMAN: Order! Mr. CLAYTON: All I am responsible for

a_s .a taxpay-er and a man who is making his hnng from the land is what is done in this Parliament. I appear on behalf of the farmers and those on the land in Queensland to try and get the ear of the Minister, so as to move Caucus and have the restrictionB that ar-e placed on the individuals settled on the land removed.

In connection with the " Police" vote there are ,some very interesting remarks contained in the '• Poiice Journal" with reference to the hon. member for Rockhampton.

The CHAIRMAN: Order! On the Esti­mates the hon. gentleman ca,n discuss the separate votes on the " Chief Office" vote but he will not be permitted to do so whe~ those separate votes come along if he has already dealt with them on the " Chief Office" vote. If the hon. gentleman desires to take advantage of the opportunity of discussing separate votes under this vote, he may do so on the conditions that I ha,ve stated.

Mr. CLAYTON : I do not intend to dis­cuss the " Police" vote on the present vote, but there are some very interesting remarks in the .. 'Police Journal" connected with thP hon. member for Rockhampton, a,nd, with your permission, Mr. Pollock, I intend to make use of them when the " Police" vote i::- under discussion.

Mr. ROBERTS (East 'l'oowoomba): We are beginning to get right a, way from the question exercising the minds of the Committee-the action taken by the present Secretary for Public Instrllction in making certain appoint­ments when Assistant Home Secretary. vVe have cliscussed the matter for upwards of an hour and a-half; we have had the officers of tho Home Department within the pre­cincts of the Chamber; and the Home Secre­tary and the Assistant Home Secretary have been sitting on the front bench, yet, not­withstanding that a serious charge has been ma,de by the hon. member for Enoggera, we have been given no explanation at all.

Hon. M. J. KIRWAX: The Minister replie-d.

Mr. ROBERTS: In the first plac<'. th, . is the charge of lack of courtesy on the part of the present Secretary for Public Instruc­tion. Secondly, the facts are totally different from the case cited by the hon. member for­Bowen. He cijed a case where a cert<~.in recommendation ca,me from a Workers' Political Organisation because there had bern a vacancv and no nomination had been lodged. "From the facts elucidate~i by the hon. member for Enoggera, it j, found that an election had been held, but because of certain circumstances some ca,n­clidatcs failed to lodge their nominations in time. The hon. gentleman states that he inquired from the Home Secretary's office as to the necessary steps to be taken to fill

Mr. Roberts.]

5iG Supply. [ASSE:\1BLY.] Supply.

those yacancics, and he was adYised in accordance with the Act. The shire council met in in the usual course of time and made c-ertain rorom1nendation-;. "-'....-e 1nust rmnem­bcr that the council had been elected on the basis of an adult franchise and wore repre­senting the people in that area. Surelv their opinions were entitled to some respect'! They made a recommendation. and on top of that I under,tand a petition large];;- si~ned by the elef'tors within the area was "pre­'ented to the Assistant Minister. In face of that we are entitled to some explanation, but no explanation has been giYen in this Chamber, and, I prec,ume, no explanation was \l"iYcll to the lo~al authority as to why c~rtam appomtments >Yere made. It is pos­Sible that they were made on the repre,enta­tH.ms of the \Vorkers' Political Organisation w1thm the d1stnct. If that is so, what is wrong with telling us?

Mr. KERR: There is no 1\"orkers' Political Organisation in that district. Thev all Yote for me. (Government laughter.) "

:\1r. ROBERTS': Under the circumstances we are justified in knowing what c.msed the :\,1inister to appoint the two men concerned. Someone must have induced him to make the appointment, and he must haYe had verv urgent and importa,nt reasons for overriding the request made first bv the local authoritv itself and then by the residents through thei;· petition to the Minister. This is a matter in -yhich we are justified in delaying the vote until we get an explanation. The Home Secretary tried to assist us by interjecting sev~ral timPs, but we do not seen1 to get any <ISSistance from the Assistant Minister. I am inclined to the opinion that, as the :Minister controlling this matter, he must haYe some knowledge of it. If he is desirous of administering his department in an intel­I~gent lllRHner, he should give an 'explana­t 1011, as there is sufficient justification for one.

Hox. J. G. APPEL (,1/brrt): \Vhy theso tears?

Hon. M .• J. Kr:RWAN: Yes, why these tears?

HoN. J. G. APPEL: During the time that I was connected with a Government adminis­tering the affairs of the country it was invariably the practice of the Hom"e Depart­ment in such cases to communicate with a local authority and request them to nominatG any ratepayer for such a position.

:Mr. KELSO : There were no " Sporls to the vic·tors" then.

The HOoiE SECRETARY: Does the hon. gentleman say that the people had an oppor­tunity of nominating and did not ayail themselYes of that opportunity?

HoN. J. G. APPEL: Yes. The local aut)oority were requ<:!sted to say whether they dcsued the appointment of any particular ratepayer. If no such nomination was received from the local authority. then. and only then, some ratepayer was non1inated for tlw position. Since the arlYcnt of the present Admimslration thev have pursued a different line of conduct. 'l'his is no new case. but is ~imp!,· following the practice >vhich was initiated when they came into power. \Vhen th€':V came into po"~er and such vacancies occurred and no nomination of a candidate or candidates had been made. the local authorities relied on the practice that had. existed. hitherto of nominating certain per­rons, but those nominations w<:!re simply over­ruled and turned down, and in some instances,

[ 1111·. Roberts.

since the franchise is no longer confined to· rat<,paycrs, ~Jcr·sons were appointed who were· not e.-en r~"1dents o_f the local authority, and t~at practice has smce been pursued. It is· Rim ply. a p:·acticc foll_owcd by the present Adrwmstrabon, and mvariably they have appointed their own supporters. If the elec­Tors do not agree with this, then the remedy rs m thmr own hands. This is one of tho many little straws which go evcntuallv to, make a bundle which I hope will overwhelm the present Administration for ignoring. as they cons1~tently do, the wishes of those· pnmanly mterested.

RELIEF OF ABORIGINALS.

Tlw HO::\IE SECRETARY (Hon. J. Stopford, Jiount Jioruan}: I beg to moYe­

•' That £54,906 be granted for ' Relief of ~-\boriginals.' "

:\Ir. F:DWAHDS. (Tananuo): I am fairly ,., ell acqunmted wrth the aboriginal scttle­nwnt . at Barambah, and I appreciate the kecu mtercst that hoth the Home Secretary a ne! "'_th0 Asc,islant Home Secrctury have· mamtc,,,tcrl m thE' settlement since thcv have taken on•r their departments. I w'ant to. ~i.-e Pither ihc Home Secretary or Assistant Home Sceretary an opportunity_ of making "- statement m connection with the settle­ment. Recently the Assistant Home Secre­tary Yisitcd the settlement, and a most suc­ce:~sful ::-port3 gatherinO' \vas carried ouL Duri1:g· his vis~t the h~n. gentlen1an n1ade certain ~ugg·csbons, .and I hope that one pcu_ticular sug:gef:tion 1vhich he ma.de, and wl11ch struck me as bcin~ :verv feasible will rr>cciYe the consideration" of J]is depart;nent. f-I is sug~c~tion ·was that every consideration should },e gi Yen to further opportunities for rPcre~tion. C'ducation, and the establishment of t'Cading-rooms on the settlement. Read­ing-rooms will ycry largely assist the young p<•ople m their education. The Assistant Home Secretary ha,d also somf'thing to say m. connection with the hospital, which is do1ng a '·cr._v groat and necessary serYire in promoting thP surcc~s and \Yell-l;eing of the ~cttlcinent. The nurses arc doing a work ,..h,ch no one could possiblv conceive unless they made a personal .-isit and secm·ed a first-hand lmowledge of it. Their work in connection with the sick and those requiring help on the settlement is most humane. The­.'lssistant Ilome Secretary made it dear that a mo.-erncnt to huild quarters for the nurses some distance from the hospital would have his '3upport. Thi~ is essential in C'DllllOction with snch rr hospital. I congratulate the Home Secretary on the definite steps which he took on his first Yisit to m·ercome the conge,tud con<iition of the State school. \\~hen I Yisited the settlement reccntlv with the .\,,istent Home Sccretarv, the new school buildinQ· was well unde;· wav. The hon. gentlcmari will agree that the increased nccommod?-iion in the srhool is es')cntial. con­sidering the number of children in attcnd­an0e. The young people on the sdt-lement arc iHtelligent. e.nd educational facilities "·ill 1oot onlv he to their benefit but to the benefit of the ·state as a whole. I would also sug­"est tn tlw Homf' Se<:>retarv-and I kno.w ft is in accord with his i"dea.s-that con­siclera tion be p·iven to the question of irri­gating an area of good-quality land which abuts on the creek running through the sceitlement.

Hon. M. J. KIRWA>r: They have perma­nent water there.

Supply. [3 SEPTE:\IBEH.] Supply. 577

:VIr. EDWARDS: It is fairly permanent. The Honw Secretary should inyestigate this mattL•r ctnd sec whether it is not poc,sibl<' fm· the sawmilling plant that is '"tablished on the bank of the creek to pump the water that \Yould be necessary to irrig·ate this land. I 1nake the suggestion, bcrausc I be]ieYe­a nd I know both the Home Secretary and Assistant Home Secretary will agTcc with me-that th, c;ettlement should be made self­~npport,ing as far a":> possible. The irriga­tion of this land would probably enable the "'l'e!·iutendent not only to supply the settle­nwnt "·ith the whole of the foJder and yege­tables necessary, but lean' a surplus to for­ward to nwrket. I aLo hope that the Home Ser·retar.v will go int<J the question of the arhisability of dc·Yl'loping the back country of th" settlenwnt with a view to bettering its <Conditions and helping to make it sclf-sup­pPrting. The tiJuber has not been cleaned o!I the laud, which could be made more pro­ducliYe than it i>< at present. The staff and nur.~e:; should haY0 Pverv f'onsidcration. They arc isolated to some ·<>xtent from the \Yhiie population, and are carrying out a work oi great scr,·icc to the State. The officials require to have a keen interest to make the settlement a succ0ss. I \Vonld like to ask the Minister \vhether the appointment of an assistant superintendent is not ncces­:-;a ry.

Hon. M. J. KIRWAN: The superintendent there is doing good work.

:\Ir. EDWARDS: I do not doubt that for one monH.'llt, but up to last year I under­si and that the superintendent had the ser­Yiccs of an assist.tnt. Does the Home Secre­tarv not think that the work is too much for onO' n1an?

The IImfE SECRETARY: am at present 'Yaitlng fn1~ ~ugg:cstions fron1 the Protertor, lmt befnrP a man is appointed I "\Vant to know first what he is like.

:VIt-. ED\VARDS: I feel eoufi·d<'nt that, frcm the interest a lr<>adv shown in the settle­nwnt bv the IJome , Seeretarv and the Asl.';istau! Ho1nc Secretary, stevps to\Yards nJ:,king it sclf·st;pporting will haye their <'or,•idcratiou. The labour exists on the ~<'ttlPnH'nt for making it so. The settlement could be carried on in the nature Df an Pxperimental property, and it would then be a pleasure for people to yisit it.

Mr. CLAYTOX (1l'idr na!J): I would not ]wye ris·ln to speak on this vote but for the fact that the s<'itlenwnt at Barambah hap­JWll~ to bo in my electoral<•, and I could not mHlerstand the lack of knowledge displayed Lv the lliinisters who .-isited the settlement _:_that thov did not extend an inYitation to 1110 to aC'Con111any thcn1. I an1 quite sure that it \Vas only an oyersight. Knowing the Home Secretary and the Assistant Homo Secrotarv as I do, I think we would hanl had a fairly good time together if the oppor­tnnity had offered, and no doubt the appel­lation '' C{)mrade " would have been used <luring the time we wore togeth€r.

I agree with the hon. member for Xanango when he stated that the Barambah Settle­ment should be made more self-supporting. I think it is the duty of the Home Secretary or the Assistant Home Secretary, whichever may be controlling the settlement. to see that greater endea.-ours arc made to make it splf~supporting. and I hope to learn, from the report that is to be issued & t the end

1924-2 0

of the cul'l'c'nt tlnancird vear. that tlw settle­ment will bt• more •;eJt-supporting than it has L<'cn in the past.

The Ho:uE SECRETARY: I ]Jopo it will be. Mr. CLAYTO=": I trust that that hope

"ill mr,teria!ise. Hegarding educational faciliti<>s, it is pll'asing to know that the (;oyerruncnt are doing ,vhat they can in thig direction. I look upon that' action as a duty deYoh-ing upon the Government.

Regarding the mvcrintendent, I think we· haw the right man in the right place. I think the present superintendent is doing l'vcrything that possibly can bL done to run the settlement in rt proper way. The hospital •hould be run on up-to-date lines. Although these natiYcs arc not of sin1ilar eolour to our own, they are of the hun1an race and ohould Le cared for. I think we have hon. gentlemen in ehargc of this department who 11ill see that eyerything possible is done for the relief of an:; who may be suffering in the settlement.

Hon. M. J. Kmw . ...x: Those in charge of the settlement are doing splendid work.

::\Jr. CLAYTOX: l hope that the good work will be continueu. I trust the Ministers will sec that I am invited to be present at Baramhah ou any future occasion when that settkmcnt mav be Yisited for 1·eereational or other purposeS.

Tlle HOME SECRETARY (Hon. J_ ::Otopford. Jlount JloJuan): I wish to apolo­gise. to. the hon. member for Wide Bay in not mVJtmg hm1 to be present at Barambah during the Ministerial visit. The error was entirely mine. I had intended to visit Barambah settlement but was unable to do so, and I a"ked the Assistant HDmo Secre­tary to do so and to be sure to ask the hon. mcmb<'r for Xanango to attend so that there \Votl!d be no trouble afterwards_ 1 run~t confess that I n1ad13 an error in over­lookmg the fact that tbc hon. member was the memb('L' for the di;;trict and in inviting ~he hon. rne1ub(•r for ~ana;1gu. However, L will make sure that the en or. wiil not recur in the future.

I a·<,sure the hon. member for ="anango. that the present nurf'es' quarters were built adjacent to the hospital at the desire o( the nurses; but smce then a maternity ward has been added to the hospital, and the present quarters arc not suitable. We are having timber pr0parcd, and I hope that th<e new nurses' quarters will be a,-ai!able at the end Df this year. \Ye have also sup­plwd some pure-bred cattle to the settlement, and I think the prospects arc bright.

The new superintendent has 1nado son1e Ycr,v Yaluablc ~uggostions, but, of course, we have to use caution. It would not do for u.; to rush into any scheme that may be suggested by the superinbndent until we arc sure that it is practicable. At the same tnno we shall re:'der him enry possible a:-;sJstaneu a11d continue the vrogres~ive policy that has bL'en carried into effect during the last feyv yearf:.

I am Yery pleased to ho"ye he.1rd the re­marks regarding the new superintendent oi 13aramhah. I assure hon. members that not only will assistance be ginm to make the sctt!em?nt self-supporting, but also assist­ance w1ll be gtvcn to make the natives and half-castes more self-reliant.

Mr .. :MORGAX (J:lm·il!a): I notice that the supermtendent of the Taroom Settlement is

111 r. .M oruan.]

,J7S [ -~SSE:\IBL Y.] Supply.

.down to l'L'CPIYl' £275. I clo not rhink that i.:., a fair :-:-alar,- for a lUHn ac:rinu- in the

.c.apaC'ity of ;-;.up~erintL'ndeut cf ::;uc:h ~a scttle-1Hl'nt. ] hrn-e had expPricnce \Yith tho ,.f;Jrnonl ~ett lctncnt o~l varion~ occasion~, aEd I 1hink the I-Iornc t!·l'Cl'etan- ·will bear 1110

.out whc·n I :-.a\- that then: have been n1orc· intprovcmf'nt::. Und more \YOlk clone sjn~E' the appointrncllt of the 1a·eseut snpcrintcntlent tlwn during any othl'r co!nparatiYc pc•riotl in the hi:-3tury of th0 ~cttll'llll'llt. rrhc lJl'l'­t-L'lll SlllJL'rintPnrlc•nt j::- lllO>t capabk\ and ha:-. <t_·I•dcavout't'd to bcttc·~· thP couditious of the 1:wtiY1..1s Ly cncouragiJJg thf'nl 10 build their .o\Yn honH~:5 and to liYL' nndt·r the condition~ e11JOY(1·d by 1vhitP folk rath\._•r rhau those of the black iolk which were Jn·cviously exi;;t­.-c•nt at the Taroom Settlem0Ht.

I cannot understand for a. 1110111ent \Yhy the: 'llpcrintendent's salary is only £275. He ;, a man n•,.tccl with considerable authority; ht~ has clone au cnormou~ a1nount of \York, .and takt•s a con:-'iderable interest in his "\vork. If the department will only give him more latitude, it will not be long before the Taroom Bettlt'mf'nt .is self-supporting. Each ,,·ear the conditions are becoming better "ne! better.

I unclcr;;tand that, if the :'\a than Gorge ·,;cheme is brought to completion. there is a prob"biliiy of part of the Taroom Settle­tnent being under 'vater. If that occurs, the denartment will have to consider the advisability of removing the settlement to arother area. Of cour'e that is a. mattl'r for future consideration. If it is going to .occur, it is no use :=-pending lunch 1nore money on the present settlement. If the department do not intend to go on with the -"Jathan Gorge scheme. impro,·emcnts sh<mld eertainh- be added to the Taroom 8Pttle­ment. ·

I hope the :\Iinister will reeognis<' the good work JWrformed by th0 Sll]Wrintend£'nt and. if po:::~siLle. ginJ hint more rernnnpratiou than he is at JH·esPnt receiYing. The lwalth of the black< at Taroom i' bNt0r now than ir evPr wa:o:;. and 1 h0 srttlemcnt ha~ increa:".ed (1uring the pa:-:t few years. The excpllent work aceompli,Jwd thPr<' ~ould be accom­plished cl<ewhere. I would like the Home t;ccretary to indicate h1~ intentio11:::; r('gard­ing the future of the settlem<'nt-what por­tion is likelY to bl' under waJ·pr and the future location of the sdtlement. ' ·

Hox .. J. (~. APPEL (AII11rt): The officers of the Home Department Llllclnestionably come more in contact with the peopl<' than do the officer~ of any othPr Govcrnn1f'nt depal'tmc·nt: and n1ore particularly with tho8e who arP 111 poor 8nd distres~wd circunl­;3tance~: aud narurally the r('ports of the rkpartmcnt mnst b0 of intcre.~t to us. The reports of 1he variou~ ~ub-dPpartm('nt;-; con­trollud by the Home Oflice submitted ycarJy furni--h v _::.ry interesting reading. This particular sub-clepartm0nt. ·· Relid of Ab­originals.'' is oue vd1ich has alwavs been of pnr! ieulnr interest to me. probab.ly for th0 rt'a<flll that mv gTandfatlwe was one of the first band of n1is'sionarics who came to what \\·a~ t hc·n termed ::\Ioreton Bay for the purpose

of ctvilif'ing and Christianising the aboriginals. From my eadiest youth I had opportunities of. going an1ongst thD .aboriginal~ and I IEamed ,ome understandm!(" of what they were and what their desires wer<:'. It is said by som0 "ho ha,-e no knowledge that the Australian aborig-inal is on0 of the most ignorant and most dense of ·unciv-ilised races.

[Mr. Morg(l;n.

cun as~ure you that tl1at j ... not ~o. I have conH~ ucror-'3. aboriginab ·with

[2 l>.rn.J vcr~- gn,at intelligence indeed, and the,- are capahl0 of learn­

ing-. lr is :r:::1al'YC'lfou:) to ~Ct' thf• \Yay in ,d;ich thc•y appreciate and . arc able to take advantag-e of erlu<"atlon \vhcll th0~· haY_<' thf' oppOrtuni1y, alHl J:llOl'C parti­c·;_darly 1:-:-. lhnt ~o '\Yhell they ar0 young. Th<· Chil'f Proh'ctor 1~ a n1an who lws strh~en to Jenru \Yhat ilH~ aLorigina1 i~ and to think a; the aboriginal thinko. Although l do Hot nu~et nu1n.v aboriginals 1;ow, 1 mePt <~ large number of half-cash·> who have all the instincts of the aborig-inals. and I can ;;;av that thcv han:- <'OniplPte coHfidcncc in th~~ Chief P1:otcctor and. having· that coln­pletc confidenct• in th<' Chief J'i·otcctor. ·lJC i~ able to a(hnini-:'ter this deparnnent in thL· oympathetic way which he does. I con­gratulate hirn H]10l1 his own efforts a!ld those of the officers >Yho >York 1mcler hnn \Yith ono ai1n and object. l arr1 glad to sN: that thf~rc i=- a ~light inC'rcasc in tl1c voH). The whole amount >H' are spending in con­II<'ction with the cdncation and care of the aboriginals is £54.906. That i, all that WP

arc doing for the original o1vner.s of thi..: peat. territory. aud after all it is vPry little. I mi's not having the departmental reJ?Orts in refen•w•e to m a ttt•rs such a.s the ha pp mess and health of the ·aboriginals. I would like tu know v ... -bat is being done in connection with nmereal di>-ease. This is one of tlw afflictions which has be"n communicated to the aboriginals. and it was proposed by means of isolation and the establishment of an iwlation hospital to endeavour to cope with this terrible disease. which in some parts-esj)('cially in Cape York Peninsula­has almost \Yiped out the aboriginal tribes. I would b<' ver;- glad if the Minister would give us ~o1nc infornHltion in rPgard to what is beiug dont• in that particula1· matter. One of thP recommendations made was that a hospital should be est'ablished in some j,olated position wh<'r<' all tho:oc suffering from thl~ disease n1ight rccein• the most Bdvancecl h-eaunem po,sibl<'. I hope that that rccomrncndation i~ being carrieJ out. lwcausp it is the du! v of the State to do everything poS6iblc to jwesern' the aboriginal rncc. I do not knovy-and vou. Ml'. Pollock, a:-; 1 C'pl'C':'Cllta tive of the ti l'C'gor;v clectora te kno1Y what the conclitiong arc-what nlan;,­pcople iu tlw far IY cs!Prn and :::\orthern portions ef our territor:c would do if it were not for the as:-istance of our Queens­land black>. as i1 is impossible tlwre to obtain white labour.

1Ir. Cor.uxs: They arc e~ploiting it to the full.

Ho~. J. G. ~-"PPEL: The aboriginals haYo as much right tn lw employed as white n1en. Thi.5 js their own countr;L

:\Ir. COLLIXS : \Y c are lwre to protect them.

HoN. J. G. APPEL: I am opposed to the prnposition that. becausp an aborig_inal nati,-c of Queensland is black, his colour is against him. It is the duty of the State to sf'e that he is not exploited. I am quite satisfied that the Chief Protector and tho officers of the department will see that these boys arc not exploited. and that they receive the full Yalue of their services. The depart­mental report would have been interesting, br-cauw as a rule it shows how these boys are employed and how many are gathered togeth0r in the different settlements. I am

Supply. [3 SEPTE}IBER;] Supply. 579

-rather iutcrr·~tctl ln the question as to ho,,­our yenhll'L' at .:\Iornlngton Island is pro­<-f'cding. Thel'L' \re had virgin ground to \.York upon. and thP aboriginals wero rcportc>d to be treacherous. It will be inter· csting tu learn frorn the l\linistcr \vhether the nlis,:.~ion on that i::.:land has been success­ful and has rcsu!ied in tlw amelioration of 1lw colHlitions of the natives. I shonld also !ikc sonH• infonnation about the settlement at Cape Bedford. It has been shown then' wha' it is possible for our Queensland <tborigiuals to do under intelligent super· vision. The 'amc remarl" apply to the ~'tlapoon mi·--~ion. \Yhere a slightly diffrrent scheme IS being earned out with good re· ::-ults. The aboriginals are being encouraged to go on to their little plots and occupy their little houses. and thcv arc cultivating their land in a wa v which is a crpdit to them. ]'rosperity is. more or less apparPnt. and they have arrived at that stage where the mis,ion appears to be of a successful nature. These arc matters in which I think everv member in ihe Committee is interested, but inore particularly those who, like myself, are natives of Queensland or of Australia.

Then there is the mission at Yarrabah, ,vhich is a fairly large one. Great develop­ment has taken place there under the control of th~ Anglican Church. I am particularly anxious to learn, as I am sure every member ·of the Hou>e must be, as well as a large section of the public, what has been the result of the improved management. which was decided t•pon by the church which has charge of that particular mission.

Barambah has already been spoken of. At Barambah we have a collection of abori­ginals from all parts of Queensland. Some of the bovs there were taken from stations in the Gt!lf country, and were supposed to be great criminals and a~ terror and danger to the neig·hbourhood from which they came, but when they got to Barambah they turned out to bP the most docile. bovs there. I am very glad to see by the report "of the Assistant }linistPr. who visited there recently, that ·eYer,vthing i>~ progressing favourably.

One cannot help being astonished at the mechanical skill of some of these boys. I Jun-e seen a honse bPing constructed by an aboriginal on one of the mission stations, on which the work was equal to that of an, first-cla'" carpenter that I haYc ever seen. You also find that they adapt themselves to mechanical occupations. I haye known boys who "·ere able to take charge of machinery in a way which would be an object lesson to a number of white bovs. Thev took a 1wide in the machinery m1der thei1· charge.

I am glad to sec that provision has been made for hospitals at these establishments. I would like to get some information from the i\linister with regard to the Palm Island settlement. It is a comparatiYcly recently established settlement. but. as the vote is £2,000 this year. I take it that considerable ·development has taken place. The settle­ment at th<> Pascoe RiYer is also a compara· tiYely new >'tation, and I am sure the Com-1nittee would appreciate some information about it from tho Minister.

There is an increase of £1,450 in the item " Repairs. store8. and incidentals. ' ~lel­bidir.' " The "Melbidir" is an auxiliarv ketch which is employed by the departmen"t in connection with aboriginal work. To my mind, she is not sufficiently large or powerful to underta],e the duties that are now cast upon

h _,r. Take, for inf;tance, the duty of paying regular Yisits to l\1ornington Island. Althongh ihc Gulf ovel' a greater propor­tlon of It;, urea ean be naYigatcd 1virh safetv hy small ves>cls. it frequently happen"s that. y,er,· suddenlv o-ales ariw and tho .; Me1biclir" is not a~ Ye~sel of suffi~icnt powe1~ to undertake the Yoyage under such circum­stances. I suggest to the Minister that whPnfunds arc aYailable-I am not urging that Jt should be done at once-the Govcrn­u_wnt shonl•l_h~ke into conBidPration the ques­t1on of provifhng a larger and n1ore pO\\'er­fnl Yesscl.

The HmiE SECRETARY: \\'o ha ye a larger vessp] up ther,e now.

I! ox .. J. G. A PP EL: I am glad to hear that. There is a big field of work to be undertaken. by the dt>part':'ent in the Cape York Penmsula. There Is a considerable mtmbor of aboriginals there who up to the present have not come under the control of the department. I want to say just ono word m reply to the interjection of the hon. member for Bowen relative to the exploita­tion of aborigin~ls. The only \>ay to pre­Yent the exploitation of aboriginals bv "m0an whites ''-I call then1 "meai1 'vhites ''--

Mr. COLLms: Hear, hear !

Hox. J. G. APPEL: If we were to analyse the position to ascertain who the " mean whites " are, we would be surprised.

Mr. COLLINS: That is so.

H_ox. J. G . .APPEL: They comprise all seetwns of the community.

M1· CoLLIK8: Especiallv ihe squatter section. "

.Hox. J. G. AP?E~: The only ·way to preyent the explortat10n of aboriginals is by mcreased Government control. '!'hat may mean increased expenditure but when we re~ljse that ail we arc ' doidg for the ongmal o~ners of this great territory of Q:wensland IS an expenditure of £54,906, It Will be agreed that this is a vote which might very well be increased.

Mr. COLLINS' (BoiCen): Like the hon. member for Albert. I notice that this vote is increased from £51,992 to £54,906. I have n<_J ob]ectwn to the increase. because I recog­n."e that we have a duty to do all we pos­Sibly can for the remnant of a dving race. The hon. member for Albert made reference to the fact that his grandfather was one of the piOn';'cr missionaries who came to this ~taty . m_th the object. of civilising and Chnst~amsmg the abongmals. I am not rcflectmg on the good work done bY those men, which was counteracted bv "outside influences. V

Hon . .J. G APPEL: Hear, hear~ Mr. COLLI:\TS: "What has alwavs puzzled

n1e i~ that, in readino· the histon,." of Java which has ·been und;:'r the control of th~ Duich for a _consi~lerablc period, we find that the population, mstcad of dc>rreasing, has 1nrr0asrcl e-normously. Sincp Dr. Alfred Russcll \V allacu was in those parts in 1857 the population· of Java has more tha~ doubl0d itself. whilst in Australia and Queens­land, where the force that has been operating as a civilising influence has been that of the Anglo-Saxon race. to which we all prettv well belong, our native race has in some o"f the States practically gone out of existence There must be some cause for that. ·

Hon. J. G. AP1)EL: Disease and '·grog."

Mr. Collins.]

580 Supply. [ASSE::\fBLY.] Supply.

:J1r. COLLI:::\8: Xo tlonbi that has been a, verv important factor. I am one of those who bPlicve that. like the prickl:v-pcar, this is a legucy that has Leen left to us by the squat­h'rs. From m,- reac!in~· of the history of the early days of this State, the squatters were the true cxploitl'l'S of aboriginal lalwnr .. and we can to :-.onL' Pxtcnt also trace the dtsease to that particular quarter. That, to wme extent, also aeconnts fol' the race dying out. I undt>rstancl from tlw speedws \Yhich have been delin•rc>d that tlwre arc a number '>t htLlf-ca.-.tc:-. nn onr aborig;inal seitlmnents. I ·.multi lik<' to know if that is true.

Hon. J. G .. -\PPEL: That is so. They haYo •11 the instincts of the aboriginal.

:Jir. COLLI::\S: I take it that th·se half­-·astC's, while pos~es:-;ing son10 of the worst -raits in the charaetPr of 1lw .A.nglo-Saxon rac0, n1u~t also pzl:"~S('SS ~o1ne of the host, and I bonP that en•n: !fort will be made to train th~fic people in' the right direction. I regret that under our ciYilisiug influencr•s, and under what the htm. mPmlvr for Albert terms Christiani~in!.!: infincncps. we lllU:_;.t admit that \VC as Hll Ang·lo-Saxon race have failed in our <'fforts to civilise and Christianise tho aborig·inal~ of the Stat0. I notice that tlH• Yote for tlw Palm Ioland Settlement is incrPaSL'd. I lHIYO not had the pleasure of Yi~iting this st:'ttJcnK'Ht, because since the hon. member for Albert has ceased to be Home Secrctar~' wr\ haYf' CC'ascd to get invitation,"; to Yisi t thm.' sPttlemeuts. I ·do not remember anv I-lonlC Secretarv since the hon. mC'mbCl' for: Alhprt vacated .. that offi.cp-especially a _Labour IIonlf' St:'r.rctary--giying hon. mem­]y,rs an irn·itation to y]sit and sec for thern­•clve• how the aboriginals are being treated on the H'tt!Pment' in tlw North. I expect that we shr 11 haY:· to wait until the hon. membPr for _\llx•rt hceonu:~ I-Imnc Secretary again before' \H' ~hall rt'Cl'iYc :Such an invitation. \Ve arP looking aft,,. the interests of the aborigirwh. and considering the large amount of n1o11cy r hat is l)xpc-IH]0d in this direction <>mwalh·, it ,,-ould not be money badly spent if hon. llll'nlh.'r;;;. \YPre pennitterl to Yisit and inspr>ct tht"' St)ttlcn1enJ~. just as they \Vere enabiP<l to Yisit the Castle Cr ·ek Irrigation '\\..,.orks. By, the• \Yay. I haY'2 not rPceiYed, nor ha Ye I lH anl (/ any other hon. mt:'n1bcr on this side doing so: an itn-itatiou to visit Barambah. Jlon. members should have opportunlti0s of Sl)l'ine: the cnn(li tions undef whic-h the aboriginals '!in' and how they aro b<·ing treat0d on the sdtlcmenb.

I want to endors0 the remark n1a{le during the dcbatP h,- th' hem. member for :'\anango with rcfC'rPDC'P to installing· a small irrigation plant on rh<' Barambah settlement. I under­~tand that this :-wttl 11lPllt cmnpri~es about 7,000 acTcs, and ther0 ought to be some fairly goocl pi< ts of land in that arPa. 'l'hf' hon. nH~Inher for Xa11ang·o kno\YS the disi-rict be-tter than I ,]o, although I passpd through it in 1902 before the s ttlemcnt had bePn estab­lish0cl. :\n dfort should be m a de to irrigate th0 land and tr,- and make the settlement st'lf-supporting-. \Ye 'hould not rear ·cYen the aboriginals of the State in idleness. (Hear, hear!) If the labour on the sPttlements can be utilised, it •honld be orp;anis cl, and methods of cultiYation taught f'O n~ to n1akc the place as self-supporting as nossible. \Vhat is true of Barambah is also true of the other settlements. I hope that the sympathy of thp Home Secre­tary in these matters will inspire those interested to assie.r to make tlwse places self­sopporting.

[Mr. Col/ins.

Mr RJORD.AX (JJurl.r): Like other hon. ffi('!llber~. T an1 Yery pleased to S{'C the· incr0as0 in this yotf'. \Vhat the incr0ast' 1night be for I do not knm•· just at presPnt. Travel­ling through my own eledorate, through the· Gnlf couutry and around the Peninsula, I notice that disease is ~1n·cading amongst tho· blacks, and not only Ulnonggt the blacks. rnl"" the Chief Protector takes some action. dis<'as-c will wipe out not only the blacks, but it "·ill haYe a tencknc•c- to "·ipe out !he white race in the Gulf couutr,-, too.

In visiiill!{ littl0 towns and sC'itlenH'nts in th0 Gulf. o1w notices that tlw blacks m-·e pr:J(•tically falling to pieces: they arc in an aclnmccrl state of clis0a.sP. The hair is falling off tlwir dogs. Some hve]yc months or so· ago. T submitt ·J to the Homf' SC'('rctary's J)ppul'tmPllt a report fnnn Dr. Pattcrson, ·of Burkdown. lmt J do not know \Yhat action lws b0en takc•n n•garding· 1hat report. Durin;s on•' of !11\~ yj::;if.:, to Xormanton I ca1Jed at thP hospital, and found there two or three aboriginals \vho W(~rc practiC'a11~v fa11ing to· pi<•cp·. through disPasP. I think the matter .. hcmld he tab•n in ham! by the Home Secre­tai·:--·~ Department. and tl1at tlw increase in ilw .-ot<' should [,p spt•nt in collecting and i~olati11g· the blaeks infecteU by disea::,e.

A C{•rlain <'lass of bf'n<.'firial \York is pcr­fornwd by th mission. At Delta station, mn1cd by the Delta Pastoral Compan,v, a place­y-rhich is run b:v a rnarutgcr, head stockn1an, a11d fort_>- or fifty blacks, one notices how the­blanket~ haYP hcpn di~poscd. ThC' yot:._• coYer­ing " Blankets. Clothing. Transport, Relief Hntion~. Po"tagt: and Incidentals, TraYelling ExpPnsP~ " has he0n increas d from £8,830 tp £9.610. I mn 'orn· to sav that the hlankPt& di.~tributPJ a1nougs~t the rinfortunatc aborigi~ 11al~ in n1anv cases ·do not remain \Vith the aboriginals .. Th0y are traded to the Chin~se for opium 9.nd ·'grog," and are resold. One­nw.v go into tht:'se stations and see that the blankets arp not with those to whom they right!,- belong. Th' blankets arc in tlio:> JH)~~r~~inn of the \'\·hit0o;;;. In most case~ the .\ l>origina ls Protection a ncl Restriction of tho Salt• of Opium Acts is administered by the police, but tlwv havt' manv other duti.ce to attl\nd to~ find cannot gi~·c the necessars ,lttPntion t"O the blacks.

I think the banking account at Xormanton to th£' cr0dit of aboriginals \'\'as ~Oincwhere "bont £10,000 \Yh n I last visited that town. .\boriginals arc hired out lo stations: other& arc ''xploitetl by stations. 1'\o one objects to th0 aboriginal haYing tlw right to work, but, while )l,, has that right to work, it is the duty of the State to protect him from the {•mployer and to ~re that h0 get:' a fair return fro1n hi.:;; employl'r. Othenvisc the State mig-ht just as WQ}] retain thl' aboriginal in his O\vn country, in places like the GilbPrt River. establish a settlement lhcr<', and put the aboriginal to :--omc ec.onoinic U:3C, so g ·tting son1c return for­the CXJWncliturc. ::\o place offers greater· possihilitics than the country along the Gilbert and :\Torman HiYns, where th" aboriginal could almost become self-supporting if tl1is money ''""r" spent as it should be.

I do not know whether it is the Chief Pro­h•ctm-, or who is responsiMc, but I think more supen·ision is wanted. I do not think anvonc has an ob.iection to a visit being made by a, parliamentary party, as suggested by the hon. membPr for Bowcn: but I do think that before n,ny parlian1·Pntary party visits a 1nission station-and those stations are supposed to be in n'r'· .,apabl<' hands-it is up to the

Supply. [3 SEPTEi\IBER.] SUjljJly. 581

GoYPl'lllllPnt tD ~c0 that son1e of this increaf'ecl O\:pPJJdituJ'(' 1~ b{·ttcr SU]H'rvisod. I adyocute that it 'honld be employed to rounJ up diseasC'cl aboriginal:-' .. to take srnears nnd n1akc test:-. and to 11fCYcnt tl1ese aboriginals frmn {·orniru.!.· into contact IYit-h our ·white children and the white race g-enerally. Their do;rs arc

allmn•d to ru11 about the town [2.30 p.m.l and the aboriginals camp al"Ouncl

lhc to\Yn. FliPs arc ycry prevalf'IH in :\"orth Qa:'eMlancl in the summer months and thc•y carry the <lisem;c into tlw schools. causing a lot of tlw hlindn<?s·_ and sore eye,) that take' place in the GLt!f country. It is np to the Home Secrf'tarv to s:e that the Chief Protector puts the Aboriginal DPpartment undror bettf'r supervision during thP next twelve mouths. and to ihat the whole of the J!3.Q(Jj ''"1 ra voted sncnt in medical n•lipf, und in rounding up- thmw "·ho rtl'P

affL'C'i ed l-H~ disPasc. and i::;o] ate th:'lll fron1 tht• \Yhitc• rac~·. If \YP do nut exterrnillato those v.ho urc• ,,ufl'e-riug frotu that di:;;pa~e. then th-'Y arc gui11g 1 u cxt('rnlinate us. L

The 110}11<: SECRETARY (lion. J. Stop­ford. Jloanl Jiuruan): The del,ate whic-h ha' takcu p]act• hns cortninlv Leen ,~erv interest­ing. and I want to a~·~ure the {'omnliti cc that I am c•utit·el; 'YtttpathNic towards the ~ugg( ~1 ion::-; thai, ha\'0 bpcn brought fon', ard. particularJv the ;-,nggcstions in regard to the f'lampipo_· out of venereal disca~e. Plan8 hr,Yc bL'!:ll in e"Xi~iencc· for ~on1c tinrP for an i~olat ion hospitaL but np to the JH'PS0nt tinw the >-chenld lJa~ ouly dt:_YelopPcl :-!O far that. i11 eaeh ~PttknH~nt nn l~olation \\·ard has h00n ( r-ct0d. The ~tampinu: out o~ YC'nC'rcai JisPi:1 :'-e is a big problt>nJ. lmt it if' a prohl('ttl "',Y'' :::hori!d no1 b0 afraid to tneklP. lH'Cau:-p TCil('rcal cli~l'a:-;p i' lJOt oulY a rncnace to the aborigi11als th" m~eh-cs lmt' al:::o a mcnac0 to th0 vrhit•: population. I can a"surp tht' Cutn­lniHN~ that it j,, n1y dPsire to COJH~ with thP problt'IH iu a llldi~llt'r ilrat will f'.tarnp out the •cliscuse. if possible. I quite realiee that it 1t[lp0D.1'~ an i1npo~"~iblr ta~lc

'I'he hoil. lllemher for Allwrt hao ac,ked for informat-ion l'L'garding Yiornington Island. 'I,hat i-; a Preo;bvtcrian :Ylission cstablislwd nn-der the pr0YioLus Go,-ernment. and I .am plt•n~ed to "i<lY that the results have- bpen vt>r:v satisfactory. They arc carrying on dairying ~·nd grrrrlr-11ing·, and arc in t>Yer\· \Y:Jv g·iving· e·ati,faeticn. The Palm Island "scttl0rr;ent is nraking Ycry g-ood progress. The Y arrabah 1\-fi:--':'iou~ \Yl1ich is ctmduetcd by the Angli-caii CLurch. i,..-, .al~o making YPry good progress. SomP til11P o_cro tbPv af.kccl thP Hon1e Office to giY0 th0111t)a ·.pp(·ial gTalH, a11d I did not cbjccr to that bPcaU'l' I r0alio;l-d that tlwy ''er<' pt rforlllitl!!" a scrYi<'P \Vhid1 rightly shou lrl b<• pc>rf onlled b:-· the Stare. The other H•ttl0!1JP1lh. hr·tl• !H;s:-.lon ~:nd Stat0. an• g·iYiJJg C'YPr.' "Rfi~faction.

'Tlw )H"oblom b. fore tho Home Tlcpartm0nt. tD-cit~y i~ that of dealing with ;·etwrcal {1i.;;;;pa~e. ThosP hon. men1hers \Yho hayc YisitNl diftcrent •;rttlcmenh "-ill find that progrC"3~· hn~ lJpc•n n~tH1e in regard to thP i'la::-:"- of ho:--];ital el'P('tt>{l. Xot onl_, ar0 Wl' dealing with YC'I1f'Tf'al {liseas0, hnt the Gn­vcnnucnt are also 11royiding· 1natcrnity \Yard~. S1:ch \ntnls ha.-e not ~'et be<'n prm·ided at cYer~· 'Pltlement. but it is part of th<> Go­v0rnrn0nt s<'heme io provide maternity wardrl at th<" different aboriginal scttkm<•nts. as ''" bclir-\·e that a fcn1ah'. although :-;hr· n1ay lH' l11aek. shonld havP C'Y{'rY a~:-:istuncP in her lwur of nPeL\ \Yt) b~1Ye already InaJp

(ll'rang·cmenis IYith the di-.trit·t officers for i~olation \\·ards to b0 erecte-d.

;\h. HroRTHX: Trbtructions f'hoult! be i.'SU(•,d io th<> ChiP£ Protpdor that the blacks ~hould be inspPctt•d -..du~n tlwy eon1l' in fo1· their blankets.

IIox. J. G. APPEL (cllbul): I >Yould like to get sorne, information fron1 the ~Iinistcr as to thP condition of the aboriginals on the j~lands in Tnrres Strait. The natiYes there \;·crP prm·idecl with boats. in ordn that they might get pead.shell, \Yhich would be dis. po"''l of by the Chief Protector for their benefit. Of eour'3e they arc quite a different t::p1_• of aburiginal from those' on the n1air~-· land. They are ph~·,ically supr•J·iol". being intcrrnixPd with the Papuau ancl _}lala~· races ~their ci,-ilisntion. ~nch a.s it is. b1)ing of g,

~upPrior nah.1r0 to f11at of the rtl){)riginal~ f>Jl the continf'llt. I ;nmld like tlH• ;',Iinister to S!;iYP u·" infonn(ltiou as to hcnY thc~e natin·~ en·(' progres.-.ing, the conditions ob­taining \Yith regard to the boats supplit"~l to thl'm to cnabk them to obtain pearl·shells, :and \vhat th0 finaucial rc:--ult ha::: bceu.

Tlw Ho~IE SEcRET.IRY: Tlw Chief Pro­f0ctor infonu:..-; 111P that the \Yorkinu-- of the l>oat~ has bee-n ycry suect':;;~ful. ~

Qut~stiou 11ut and pas:-;ed.

CH,\RIT.IBLE IXSTITl:TIOXS AXD GRIXTS.

Th" HCHIE SECRETARY (lion. J. S1Ppford. Jioul/t Jioryffll): I l!C'g' to nlOYt'­

'· That £90,897 b0 gTanted for ' Chari-taLlP In~titution~ and Grants.'"

Tlwn" i~ a slight iucrea~e in the vot·c of last ~-f'ar. thr> r:JJJonnt in 1·r-gaHl to which is larg0Jy clue to incn•ascd salarit':-.

IIox. J. G. APPEL (.lll>al): I \Yould like to a'k the :Minister to !Pt us kncm· the position in c·otnwetion \Yith the \Yestwood :::.anatoriun1, 'Nhich was. C::3tabli:-:hed moro partictclarl_v to deal with those who are affiiciPcl with n1iiH'l'" phthisis. It is .an l'XpPrirnent rr1orP or l0ss, and I arn sure that f'YPn· memb<'r of the Committee ;;-ill be glad to learn what th<' result of the treatment has b0P-ll in thi::;:; lof'ality, which was rccoinmendecl '" a mitable one in \Yhich to deal \Yith this form of disease which afflicts members of the Jllilling l'OllHYlUllity.

The liO}fE SECRETARY (Hon. J. ::-\topford, ,1Iount Jiorqan): In the early hi,ton of the \Ye,twood Sanaiori'~m there was a~ difficultv in inducing rniners to go to the institution. a' tlwy di,d not like being cnopPd up; but' aftf'l" thP institution had been in operation for a \Vhilo the 111011 ''yho o•·ailPd thr•msPlYPS of it benpfited thereby, .m<l ''"'' ha,.,, not had any difficulty since. Tile in,titution has been use~] also for treat· m•nt of femaks. The rc,ults ha.-e been YPI'y gratifying, and I ran safely say that e,~~:1·vone who ha~ be0n treated there for ]Jhlh.isis thinks that it is a Yery worthy inetitution. It has fulfilled expectations and mm·e than compcnsatPd for the exp<'ncliture involYP<l. Tlw report \\·as tablecl this 11101'1111(~'.

IIox. J. G. APPEL (cl/l,n·t) : I intended to '"k the :\Iinister to le1 ns know the position in r0gard to thP lazarPt on Pe-el hlanrl. Ha ye the !<•per pa tiPnt' increased in ntunbPt' ': lfow 1nanv havP been cured of that di~C'a~(' c~ I unclc~·~tand that S0111C of the inmate' ha1 c been actnally cured and

Hon . .l. G. Appel.]

582 Supply. [~~SSJi;:JIBLY.j

that wme of them are out on probation. I am sure that members of the Committee will be glad to learn-Dr rather sorry to learn­whether there has been an increase or not in the number of patients. what the effect of tho treatment has been \Yith the Chaulmoogra oil, and al~o how n1anv pati.ents v~-·ho were con~ fined in the institr!tion have been liberated eur0d or in such a condition that, subject to report they are no longer inmates of the unfortunate institution. --

The HOslE Stopford. ~llount for by thP hon. follow:-

SECRETARY 1Ilon. J. .l!nrr;an): The figure~ asked lnPni LPr for .... <\.lbert ar0 as

On the Ishmrl. :;oth June, ~± 10 18 .).3 10:2:3

~incP admit.te1l .)· 1 •) 1 !(I 1{ cadmitt NI I I •) Si! J UisehargPd ., ::-,"i! .:-;il Xi! ., JliPd Xi! I I oj

J{(~maining. ·:3.0111 J{l;lt', 1 n~j ~~ 1~ 2~ :l 0+

Hcgn.rding the Cbunhnoogra oil, the Coni­Jili,cioner of Public Health considers that th0 tn'utmcnt ha;;: L0Pl1 yen~ 8U('res;:;fu1. Of coursP. difficulty ha~ b0cn 0Xl)crienccd in g-ct-1 iEg- iht' patients to takt• it. ::..Jot onlv is {hat difficult.\· e"puieJ:ce·d with thP pat;ents on 1ile "land. bm also after thev haY<' Leen l't>lPa~ed. in gPtt illg thcrn to (Ontinut~ ·with it for their <..l\YTl protection. I undcrstalld that ne\\~ regulations arf' no\\· i.n force under \Yhicb a ~upply of oil is giyen io those patie~1ts \Yho arC' dirwhargccl ten1porarily. _._..\_ c0rt.a1 n an1ount of difficulty wa~ exp('l'if'nrocl Junng tlw \\:ar_. and aft{•nrards. in getting­'l ~upply of ud, and at onr stage it wa." IH'CP::i­

~ary to lH"ing the oil ac·I·os~ thf'- Cbanncl h:'-· ael'oplatH'. but we l'P<.dis0d that, if it C·)l!f(: Tet1 .great betwijts upon thesp unfortunatt-. l•l~opl 1 .. '.

It \Yas our duty to endeavour to chtaln a­~uppJy.

:Ylr. F. ~'- COOPEH (Unmu): I would like to ask tlw :Yiiuietcr whether the dPpart­""'Jit has be,'n able to procure unv of the <'x1 met oi Chaulmoogra oil. which. is said to h'1YC llcen obtained by ~on1c phvsician, aud \\·hctlwr it i~ trnc tl1at this €'xtn~C't con­taim tlw cs,,Pntial featur0 of the oil without any of 1 h0 obnoxious feature;;; ,vhi(·h app0r­tain to '1 us,. I belion: that in its raw ~ta t.e the oil i~ t:o obnox.iou:::; t,ha t verv ft~w peopln eau approach it, and a n1uch ~nl1al1Pr uumbcr arc able to retain it on their eromarhs. I understand that Dr. :\foor<• 'aiel two ycat"s ago that he hoped to be able to ol>tain " sufficient <]uautity of the extract to me-N 1hP inc1ea.spd demand. 1f it. can he St'Cnrcd. I hope that thP treatment of the nnfodunatc people will be much more suc­cp·,sfnl than it has lJpen iu the past.

I \mulcl like to thank the Homo Departm0nt for tlw little' attPntiou they gaye to patients rn the rnati r of c:vc treatment. ThP groat difficult:; \Yith pationts at the Jazaret--

Tiw CliATR:VL\X: Ordor ~ I would ask the hon. member to elder his remarks on that question until that Yotc is reached.

Mr. F. A. COOPER: I shall ha Ye gr<'at r>l0asnre in doing so.

[iion. J. G. Appel.

:Jh. IIARTLEY (Fitzroy): I would like to know wlwther the accommodation •at the 'Yc~hyood Sanatorinn1 i:s lH•con1ing oYcrtaxcd. I know that from tinw to time there SP ·ms to be some difficult~' in getting pati< uts to thos.e in~titutions. I do not know wh('ther 1t 1s because the sanatoriun1 iK overtaxed, or whPthcr it is that thev do not care to take patiPnts in an adYanct•~l stage of cun:::.un1ption I think it i" a mistake to decline to take 11atients for that reason~ I kn.cJ\:' of caf'cs where •11atients have been refused aclnll\tauec on those grou!lcls~for nobo·cly can say \d1<'n the hope­Ir~s stage of consumption if" l't'aehed. I

· nJH..1erstand that there is a good deal Df troublo ], cause of the accommodation bEing· fully rax~~d, <-t~Jd it that is so it nwar~~ that the Oon .. 'rllll1Pnt must YPr:v· soon prov1dc a sana­toriun1 clsPwhcrc. So far us. I ean see. con­:-:umption is on ihe increase, and with the i11<·rpaso in population has ovf.?rta~k~n the public institution~ that haYP bt~en sufficH_'nl np to no\Y to cater for these Yarious complaints.

'flu~'rC' i~ anotlL'l' nlattcr that I wish to l1a\·P lhe Jion1c Secr0tary's opinion on: that j~ in COlll10<·tion \\ ith the item ·• Bf'l10Y01Cl1t

.\,yhnn. Uockhamptou. o£600." That is a hPD('Yolt'nt asvlnrn conducted by a. benPYolen:. ;-;oci('tv. consiSting of a nnrnbcr of 1adic~. of ''Iron; ::\Ir,. \Yookoek is tlw prpsiclr->J1. :Ylr•. \Yoolcoc·k giYf'f-1 a gn'at dNtl of tinH~ and nttPntion to the as~·lnm, and in addition th0 t'ocietv 1 ak(\<:: care of the needy cases onbndc of th<; asvlum bY wav of Jll'GYidin~ relief to frunilic-s ~who a·rc d~1stitutp and --proYiding clothing whPr(' npces:;;ary. Th.c building h~ 7

fallen into a ~tato of disrcpaH, and ccrta1n alterutioiJE and repairs are DC'<·cssar;_v. Although tho Home Secretary ha·, informed mP that at. pn,sent there "' no fnncl from \Yhi,·h this moneY can be marle ayailable, I want to md\: hin1 -fn ::ope \vhcther ~on1e arrange­went cannot bL' made to get the fnnclo; from f:,Omewhere. l'ven if it mean."i {'anntu·king a c0rtain prop on ion of the '' ~;old0n Cask~t ~ 1

receipts. At tlw pn',;ent trmc the. stati .Ie ~nffPring a. great de-al of InconvC>nicnrc 111 rnnning the in~tltution. Alt(~rat.ions are par­ticularly requir0d to the rlining.,·oom >Wd th<' dining-room !loor. :\:ot long ago I paid .1 vi.-:it to the institution. and '<lW \Yhat \Ya,..;; reqHirod. The work of !he committ0e ie YPrY creditable indo~'d. ..:-\11 theY a~k fur i~ en 'expenditure of about £100. ·r am quite' ,ati,ficd that if tlw Home Scrretary would visit that institution-~

Th(' :F-lo::'IIE 8ECRET.\RY: I gaYP you a pron1ise I ,,·onld Yisit RDckhampton.

:\fr. liAR'l'LEY: T,; tlH'rC am· chance of tlw rnmH'.Y beiug n1adc- aYailab1C. fron1 son1e fnnrl? I think thf' hon. gentlL'lllan gave 111 that promise ,on:-10 tinK' ag·o. but .so far it has not lH'Pll r·arrlt•d out. I want to in1pr0"~ upon the li ome SL·cn'iar-c tlw fn.ct that the cc ladie; an~ workino· nnch'r · Y{'l'V disadvanragoou:3 ('On­t'itions 1n ~~trrsing out~ thi~ \York, \Yhich thPy tl-:.'(' riDin~ \'Cl'~' \YCll.

Mr. ROBERTS (Err~t '!'oolcoomba): I regret that hon. members haYe not been able to rcceiYo the report upon the operations of 1 he .-:ub.cJepartnJPnh eal'lier than th0y ha Ye Jone. There i:-; son1e int0rcsting inforn1at.ion in the repor, w1th re'!1E'Ct to the olcl people. at Dnu·c;i:.-n. I notice that t\YelYo pages of ~iw l'Pport. ar(' dnvoted to this institution, jn \Yhich are "' man:· old people \Yho haye been most· unfortunate in their life in the State. I notice on page 18 a table showing· the

Supply. [3 SEPTE:\IBER.] .'up ply. 5S3

rr•ceipts .and exp('llditurc to 31~t Dl1Ct"·Inbcr, 1923. The exp01Hliturc coltunn seb out-

Salaries 2\Iaintenance

Total The rccci pts for the

£ 8. d. 8.815 13 4

32-.463 ~ 7

... £41.278 17 11 sarne period \Ycro­

£ s. d. Sale of pigs CollPct<•cl bv PuGlic

29 15 0

Curator ~ X et expenditure Sale of sand Po.-~trnastcr

15.753 25.405

2 88

9 10 7 3 0 0 5 10

... £41.278 17 11 I would like the Home S<•crctary to explain how the amount collcct<!d l;,- the Public l'nrator 1~ llHt.Uc up. "

The JlO"-fE SECRETARY: That is the pensions.

:\Ir. ROBERTS: I WOLlld like some infor­niation as to the: an1onnt tlw GoYernment rcccin•d from the CommomYcalth during this pc,riod of t'q~}ye n1onths, and how 1nany people are l'CJH'l'sented in this f'ontributiou frn· :-:l~l'Yit'.~~ n'lHlercJ. l)t'a1ing \Yith the• 11Jc·briatt'":l In~titution tlw l'C'lJort siatc•:-;-

. ' :\IETHYL\TED SPIRITS.

·· I• ... rcnn aeconnts receivcll, ·when othe1~ :::pirit~ \YPrf' unobtainabll' or on account nf lack of fnnck tlw <h·inkillg of methy­lated ~pirits .-;Pcn1s tD be Oll tho increase•. This iB ab) allncled to ln· tlw :\ledical Sup<•t·imcndent. Dah·.nnpl;, Hmv<c•. He nutkf's the sug:gcstion thnt soniL' rnateria1 could b,• adclcd to the mcthylatc•cl spirit >old to tlw pnblie which will pffcetivPiy ~top it:', li~C'. This suggc:-.tion spcn1s wonh.v of gPncn:d adoption. as drinki11g this liquor i:::. certainly n•ry di~astrou:', to tho~.._, \Yho tak(• it. a~ rxpPriencc of ca,;;;p:' h('l'l' ha:-' ~huw11.

·'It \\oulcl lw a ckeidc·d bpnefit to Qw•pu,jml(l if sonll• l!H•thod could be adopted to pn•vout the drinking <1f !Hethylat~>d :-.pit·it.~'

The UO:\IE SEC'REL\RY iiion. J. Sto!Jfonl. Jlrmnt Jlor!Jan): 1 have not got the lirrtn·c~ either of thP nuJulwr or of the anloui.\t l'PCPived fron1 the• Colnrnon"-ca1th, but the Connnonwealth GuYcrnment con­tribute 10::-. 6d. per Wl't"k for pach old-ago pcnsione1· in 1JnnvYich. TJ1at 1nakes up the an1onnt shoiYn in the rc•port a::- collected b~.-the Publie Curatol'. "

:\lr. KEHH: Did tlw Commonwealth Go'.-t'l'llil1C'!lr incl'l'aso th<~ contribution "\Yhl'n the pen,ion wa~ iur·rea~l'd to 17~. 6d.;

Tlw IIO~.IE SECRETARY: Thc'v did not increa~c the amount paid w the Q~lPCnsland GuvernnH:'nt.

:\Ir. \\'RIGHT IJ1ulim6,t): I <le·irc to saY a. few vrord~ on the Yote iu conllection ''"ith tlw Dunwich Benevolent Asylum. I>uring the rpcesf'. I paid quite a nnrnbr-r uf vi:5its to that institution. antl I noticed <hat quite a. Illlnlbcr of improvements had taken place teJJC"ling- to n1akP the inn-wH:>s n1orc conl­fortabiP. I would like to :O:.f~P ~Oll1P other in~titution provid0d for imbeeilf'R, also for <.~ cerrain tYpP of fcrnaiP. nart·icularh- voung· gids. '"ho 'nrc at present l1Ping- adn1.itted. 'r 1hiuk th.Jre .-;houlcl bP ~OHlf' othEr institution for this type of pcr,orl. Such a. proYision

\Yonld 111nkl\ for UTl~arvr con1fon for the· i1nuatc~:' of Dnnwi~h. That applic~ parti­cularlv to fl~nlHlP L'cl~l!~. \\~e havf' at Dun­\Yic·h inaHY of nnl' u1d ladv pinnP\·rs. and it i..; not l'igJ)t to placP an1ong.th~n1 those fcrnale imbecilco<. En•n-thing p0•51ble >houh1 be l:oiH· to provide ~a cornfortable tiu1c for the <i~·c·d jnhabitants.

-Takin;: l)un,yich gcnc•rally, I arn :-;ati:--_fied that it i.;; in ndva11r·l' of rnany 1nstitunons of rr :;imilar kind in otlwr parts of the world. If HH1"lt'thing \YPl'<' dor1e on thl' lines I haYe ~nggc~H'Cl. it \YoniJ tend to ill1lJl'OYe cnn:-'.idcn1bly the prcs0nt conditions.

C.It·. YO"~LES (DalU!;): I yyi,h to deal L,ripfh· >Yith.thu Jubilee Sanatorium ut Dalbc· fol' c'nllSlllllptiYP~. I Ulll plca~ed to ;-;ce that tlw ~a.la1·y of the Yihlting utcdival officer ha~ bPC'll' raisP(l. lt i~ \-er:-· proper that ,].ould han' becu done. l yyi,h to deal with a portion of a l'('port hmn thi:-; in~titntion. \\"hen tlw in,titution YYil' "'tabhshL•cl. I 1mdcr"tood that- lt ''"as ouh~ for person~ in tlw fir:-:t sttu2.:e of 1" hP djsea\.('.

IToll, J. ci. _-\PPEL: That j, so.

:\[r. \'0\YLE:--\: I thi1,k that anangemeut ha~ not bcl"ll adlwrcd to. and that- incurable· ca~c·:-'- nutv bt• founc~ antmlg-:-t the· ca~L\"S adn1itrl'd. ~ That is not what \Ya~ iutPHded. The rPport couta1n~ tbi . ..; :-:;tate!ncrlt-

"Our :--t;lti.:-:tics an• IP~:-'= t'atisfactory than n~ual owi11o· to the Iarg0 unntber of adYtlllCr·d and~ nn~uitable c:a.st•s "-hich h<n-e lH'l'H SPnl in duriltg thP year. Till' l!Hltt<'r \Ya~ bronght LJe£ore the notice of tlH~ Honh' ~P<'l'{'taJT sonw rnouths a!Yo, autl has to solllf' <'~tent llC'0ll l'l'Cti-

li~J." Jf tlw in,titutioa '""' pstab]i,hccl for per­

:-on:-: in llH' fir,;t :"tagP~ of !hP di:-;Pasc. it ~s not fi fair thint{ to a<ln1it lllcurablf'.s, partl­culnrh· if tht·Y ~1rc• nHch'nllh· in their habit:'. l ~inc~~r~,h· i l'l·t..,t t1Htt tlH' ~ug-gl~~tion frcn11 the i1::;titut.io1.1 \Yill he acc·PlJtl'd Ly thl' HonHJ ;-.;PCI'('tary':-' Dt·JH:ll·tmc·nt.

ThPrl' 1s n notht'l' Ill a ttcr \Yhich Sl't.'Hl.S to Hit' to renuirl' atteution. An opinion st"'}..C'l11S to be p1·c~-n lent iu GoYt>rnuH'Ilt devart~ne_nts tbat these institutions de not need pamtmg· ur prc~crYing. This applies not only to hos­piLll:-- Ln;t 1o <,tht.'J" lntildin12>··. I t.hin~.;: tha!' < (•untry in::;:itntion::; <U'f' parttcnla1·ly Ill ncea­of pn':-;;erYarion by p&intillf.C 1norP ~o than cit_,. institutio11~. I sugQ'('St that ~o fnr as th1~ institntioH ]:-' COllCPl'lll'd tt little paint Ynmld lloi lw out of place.

TlJ,. 1:0:\IE SECRET.-\.HY (!Ion. .J. Stopford. J[tJIII!f Jlril"f!'UI}: RPp:ardin~ t_he admi.;;...,ion of incnrahlf' patif'llt"'. thf' ruaJ01'11)r of the pr:dit•nt:-". of cour.-;;c'. are :-.nbjPr~. t~. rio·id. <'X<lllliTI<.ltirnl twforp tlwy arP admntc>Ct to ..... thP .Jubi],.,-.. ~:anatoriuJn ~~t 'I)alby. hnt the !Jun. 11H'llll'f'l' ILH: t. rf'rnQ;ni.-""'<" ihai 111P llnrne

DP.partnH•ni- ,_is pL'ePcl in a yery [3 p.m.] ..SPriol.!.s diffieuhy. There IS a

lnt·2.·e nwnber nf pntit"nt..: a~k­IJln' for ndmi~~ion to ~OlllP ho~pitaL nnd tl-;~ onl:· iiHtittuion rtYailaldf' i:-> at Dalhy. and 1n• lutve to :-;cncl them t.1H'rC'~ o1· else lt><tH' th('ill to iook aft<."r thcn::;.t>lYeS. \Vith J'0tnrrd to paintiU!..!." tlw :--:nuauninnl, I have h;~d rh~1t minlltt"d fo1· ~omt~ c·on~idPrab].r~ time. H!Hl ,~.-hen the nwnry is aYailah1e it \Yill bC' <lttendr-d to.

:\.Jr. ROT\EI\TS (Fust J'r,owr)(nnl,,t): \Ye­nn· proYidinu: a "llll1 in rhi~ ,-ot<"' for lhB' Epileptic Ilomc. \YillmYhnrn. and then• '' a ~tatt>IllL'nt in rbc rt:port in r0crard to the-·

Jir. Roberts.]

584 Supply. [ASSE~IBLY.]

adn1ission of patient~. T yi~ited the in:;;t·itu­tion. and \Yas i'truck \Yith the largE:' nun1b0r of inn1ate::~ in thP homC' -who. in n1y opinion. ·were no1· suitable ]Wti0nt.-=- for th~t in~titu~ tion, which ''"" c,tahlii<hed for tlw purpose of proYiding a hon1c for thos0 IYhose mental c011-dition might hl· irnproYPd: and it secn1s to mC' rnihcr nnfortunatc that th0~e people ::--honlcl ll(~ ~urrcundL•(l ll\' JlCi ~ons \vho arc cc·rt8.inl)- incurnHc. ancf IYho ought to be plau-'cl in aLothC>r in~titu1 ion proYiclcd by the State•. Thl:-. i~ IYhat the report ~ays-

,, Of th0 a<lmi~"'ion::; a Jarp;t' proportion '' C'l'f· in- be- ·i le or llll'lli"alh- d()fpetiYC'. not­with~1 and lug tlH' ]ll't'Ctll;tiult'3 takf'll to Qxrlncle i11i:- c!a"'~ of <·a:;;.C>~. It is not. rcr,:;:ou.lhlo tn f'XJJPC1" i.nmrrte::: of normal Jnonti:lllts. for who111 t•;;;p('t·ialh, tho in~ti­tution i.-. dc::,i~2:ned. tt.l a~"o~·iatc- with HnforlnnalP f..uft'c•rf'r:- ,..,-ho..-e ndmi.,~ion in n1anv < a..;;c··· ha ll('l'll ~nlu.rht onl v a :'I a 1n~t · r<'"-Ol11'C'f'. \YhPil thr•y ·ha Ye lw-cornn intolc•J·ablP t{J tlJOSC' bc•lon'g:iug- to thPm."

It i~ ~ tatlH•r a snd paragl'fl}lh. and WC' haY<' to c'on::.id"l th(• ppon1P \Ylth \Yhonl they arc ·H'~ocia1t•d. Thi,.. l'(-']JOr1 i~ \\Orthy of con-;-.iL1Prn,tinn. <llld tht• jy-, .. titution :.bou]cl lJ(• reallv 1Fcd for t h0 pnrpo ... l' for \Yhich it \Yas ('l'C'C't.t•{l

:\h. IlA:'\SO:\ (llumndu): I >Ynulrl likP to knD\\ frr,m 1 ht~ ::\Iini::.:t0r \YhT: there i~ .a rP{1uccd yot~' foj_· '· C'mllllti~sion' payablE• to traYf'liPr,;:, ., in colinection with the R11nd, Deaf and DltlnL Instinuion. Last Yea1· a t:.t!lTI of £500 \YH~ YUr<'Ll fo1· '· { 'om;Hlssion payable to lr8Ycli<'r~." nncl for thP f'lHl'C'llt

flnancial YP<l1' a ~llJll of £425 onh- is ·set down. I 'would like to know whr,thcr ihat rf'{1uc·l ion is {lnf' to an iiWl'('ase of husi11es;-; which rC'JH1Pr~ a l<'s~f'l' Jnunla_•r of traYeller,:; I~el'f'S:--Ul'Y. 1 cd--o desin~ io C'al1 atlPntion to thP di"l).luy::- fll th0 RYi:dHU11~ Exhibition. For H)llH' yrar" pa~i it ha:-- lwen tlw cu~io1n for ·v:hat I Jlliitht lPl'Jn ;: \Yorkitl!..!..' display~ ,. to be exhibited at tiw Bri>l>>ttW Exhibition. and thP prnetiu~ of taking· <'!llployPc..-; of i11c Blind. Den f. and 1ltunl> In,titution to the' Exhihiticlll i.-. ohjt•ctionable io tho,..P p('op1<', fl.lld T ho]l<' 1lll'i1· wi~lH':-- "·ill be rPs}H'"tcd in the futurt'.

C\fr. GLEDi'Ox: Thp·· W01'<' not there la~t year.

:\.fr. }L\:'\SO:\: I do not know \Yhcther tlwv WPrP therP. but they were aRkcd to go. I <:lo not think they "hoqld be placed in that position. Their ,vishes in that C'onnectiou --are \Yell known-they object to bein~ placed on sho\Y. ~\. Ycry large proportion of the en1-ployPes in the institution are members of the Blind \Yorkers' 'Cnion. and the union is opposed to their being plac<'d on >how before the gctH,ral public. as it \Yere. at the Exhi· bition. I think that the wishes of that organisation should br' respcrtccl b:-· the departmPnt. It may be ycry interesting and in>rructiYc to t'H' public. bnt I clo not thin], it i~ a YC'ry nice thing for th0 0n1ployees of the institution to be made the means of <'lltertainmC'nt to the public when the:· do not desin' to be in that position.

:\h. KERR: Ha Ye theY not p:ot a shop where they exhibit tlwir goods for sale?

:\fr. HA:'\ SO:'\: There i' no harm in ·making an exhibition of their goods. \Vhat I objcd to is the cmployeeR themselYes being PxhibitNl. I hope that tlw objection which the Pmployc0s fpe] to being place<l on shmv will be respected by the depaTtmcnt.

[Jir. Roberts.

The HO:\IE SECRETARY (Hon. J. Stopford . .llount Jloruan): There has been an exhibition bv blind workers at the Exhi­bition for fin," years past. Personally, I do not hold tlw view that a blind worker exhibiting his skill is an object that can be described as something on view.

Mr. H1xsox: They think so.

The HO::\IE SECRETARY: I know that the gTc'atE'st possibl·e difficulty confronts the 1nanagcr of the institution in making an rrdYertisemcnt. of the goods which is neces­SHV. The conditions under which the blind \Yoi·k to-cl a v arc certainlv much better than they \vor!<:ccl under preYio"usly. (Hear, hear !) In order to make the conditions of the blind '' orkcr;- as good as \YC can: we wish to lPt the public not only of Brisbane, but of the who],, Siate. know what excellent \York that iur;t itutlon is doing.

I-Io:-<Ol'RABLE i\TBIBERS: li<'ar, hear ! Mr. ::\10RG.\x: Thev would sell more goods

in the country if the. people knew about it.

Tlw IIOl\IE SECRETARY: There has nen•r been any qucf'tion of compelling blind workl'l's to go to the Exhibition at all. Certain blind \\'orkers volunteered to giYe th<·ir sPlTiecs c!nring the prcsPnt Exhibition, but the Blind \Vorkns' Union objected to thPI1' going tlH:l'l'. and they ''"t'H' not forced to e:o. J)ur]ng 111v term of office \YD have neycr attempted to force them to go. \Ye thouu·ht--ancl the blind workers themselves thow(ht-that ;t would be interesting to tho countrv people at: the Exhibition to see them therP ' 'rhen• is no C'ompulsion used to make a Llincl \Y<lrk<'r "0 there and displa~· his skill. \Yp desirP to d~1·elop the institution so that :li no period a picce\Yor kPr will be on short time there.

:!dr. I-IAC\BOX : Hear, hear! That is Yery semible.

The HO:YIE SECRE'l'~\RY: I want to add that no blind worker hao been sent to the Exhibition to work at the Exhibition for thR la>t fiYc vcars; I do not agree with the idea that it i,_" inYidiou> to send them there.

Qm'stion put and passed.

HEALTH.

HoN. M. J. KIRWAN (Brisbant): I beg to n10Yf.'-

,, Tlmt £26.275 be granteJ for ' Health.' "

As hon. members will obscne, the yote shows a net cJpercase of £1,769. The usual increases an' proYiclcd for members of the staff. I do not know that there is anvthing further I need explain. bnt I >hall b;; glad to furnish any necessary. inforn1ation to the Cornmittec.

Mr. KERR (Fnour;rra): I notice that there ha~ bePH a l'Pdu-ction in this vote from £2H,044 to £26.275. which the :Ylinister might explain. In the meantime I desire to touch upon on<' or two matters in regard to hc~lth "C!lCl'alh. First of nll. I want the :Ylmtstcr, fE possible. to amplify. the statement whi.eh he made recent]:-· m regard to the mtlk 'ltpply of the metropolitan area. Ev.erybo~l~· will admit thr• worthmess of the sp1nt whtch prompted the rC'ccnt dcp~1tation to the Assi,tant Home' Sccrdary \Ytth the ob]Pct of Rafeguarding thP milk supplY. Dr .. Turner tlwn said that he .had been \Yatchmg the position for thirtv years. and that it_ is getting \YOl'Sf'. The Labour. GoYC'l'lll11f'llt ha n: been in powpr for OYC'l' In ne :, ears, yet

Supplg. [3 SEP'fE}!BEP..] Supply. 585

after that tin1c a professional gcntle1nan such as Dr. Turner !lllblic!y sb re' that the llosition i3 getting wor~c. It Js obYious that the tinH· is :ripe for us to tackle this question in a 11101'(' thorough nlallllCl' than it has Le0n tackled hitherto. The Go,·ernnwnt hav0 dl'­layf'ri a long ,,:bile before taking any gtcp~. n nd to-da v we do not k1~0w \Yhcrc \Y{' stan<CL IYL· cannot find out whcthel' the proposed V('tion j:5 going to take th0 forn1 of a pro­durere' pool for the cliBtrilmtiou of milk. \dwther the supply is to be a municipal :dfair. or \\hether it is to be controlled b• the Commissimwr of Public HeaHh. ),:t any rat<). 1 hope then• \Yill not bP that con­f\in of anthoritv \vith which the Commis­sionf'l' has had 'to put up for 1nan:v :-car~. \Ye• have only to con::-idcr the positiou in l'l'gard to ihc Join1 Health Board to get an in:-.tnncP. A snqJln:3agl' of ins]JL"cior~ ha~ rPsnlted from tlw aholitior• of the Board, and three of them are now out of work. lQ,OtllP of tlH• local a.uthoritiPs haYl' done their dnt~· and appointPd in:"pPc:tors. but f30l11C'

ltave not. Enoggei·a has appointed it' in~]JL'Ctor and is doi111! it.-;; .iob, but sorne oilwrs rtl'f· not doing ~o, and to cope• with ihe posi1iou the C'mnrnis:o;iolH'r has had to plate hi-, own nH•n in the yarion::; clistrict·', 1 hope that " >-imilar position \Yill 110t ~rise:_ in regard. to thP rnilk snppl~-, 1vhich li< ot '" mnch tmportancc to the health of tlw commnnit7, pal'ticnlarly childn•n and 1!11 alids. Th0 staternPllt~ in the report of tlw Unvernn1cnt Anah·st fnr ln~t YCat· in n:·gard to 1nilk are nsfonndn1g-. I t~k0 thi::' opportunlt:v oi tnfor1ning- the Coll!mitt.eP that 253 sample•, takPJI for anal.-sis C'f:ntainPd eiq·arr-ttPs. tolmcco, leather. .:.pqturn. cv.anide--

:\lr. CL.\YTO~: Xon8<•nsc!

::\lr. KERR: Ld the hon. mcmlwr gd ·the report of the (ion'l'l1Int'nt Analc· ... t. He would not t0ll an untruth.

Hon. :\I. J. KlRWA~: Did ;you say {.,;·anidc?

'l\Ir. KERR: The repnri' says "'· and I \Yill go furthc1· and tdl the Committee that i:1Jc;o;p satnples arc said to ha·ye lndudcd urith_' and s.uch lik0 snbst~nee~. If hon. n1Pn1bcrs want pmof. let- th<>m turn to page 2 of the l'eport of the Gon'rnmcnt Analyst for thL· year ended 30th June. 1923. If thev sav ·that 1 an1 tPlling all untruth. the t~hargC IPnst also ap11l:· to the Cov<·rnment Analyst. ·sho :"ays~

" The 253 miscE"llaneous samples in­cluded crearn of iartar. ·egg lJOOLlle~.' e:igarettPR, tobacco. leath<'l~. vcrn1in dcstroyci'S, larvacidf's, 'vin(', syJuttuu. gelatine>. cloudy an1nwnia. C"vanid{:. nrinP. h:v-drometPI"-..., bnttPr pJ·eser~·ativP~. borax. boric arid. citrjc a11cl tartaric acid:"., '!"Olar eclipse ~ei~. and lll't'l' ]HlJ­ing."

'Thl' Gon'rl1111f'll1- haYC' been in powl·l' oyer 11int• :V('ar:->. hut thev haYP llC'Yer vPt tackled thi~ qu0~tion. It h~ts lH'('ll :-aid tf1at milk 1~ r{•;:pon~ihk fDt' t'a tTYin!.!.· a llUntbPt' of disca~C'~ \Vh<H _<ll'(' thP Gov(:nnlrPnt doi11g at litP ]H'('­

:-wnt tunr? rrlw tirrH-' i~ Oj)f)Ol'll!llP for the :.\1iuister to n1ake a stnt0111011t in thi~ Chamber lu that coniH'-ction. Brisbane alOIH' consn1nc~ 4.000.000 gallons of milk per ,·car. That nmonnr is adultPratPd bv 47.600 gHllons of .... YntPr, and the public of RrisbanP <~-J't' pavin2.· c£7.140 per annnm for water instead of inilk: nt Sd. or 9<1. per quart. This quPstion j, of ~1Hl'tll110llllt irnpnrtalH'('. The GoYcrnrnent

should hnYc tackh•cl the milk supply problem long- en' thi;;:. The~v a.rc nor: yet in a position to say that the probkm is bPing· t_acklcd. I. an1 uot going to bl:.unc thP Connlnss1oncr of Public Health. for the r·, ason that he has not had 1llC' rwwer. to deal with the matter. Y.e~r after Year he has pOintNI out tlw problem h'

l!i;-; report to the GoYcnrnrPnt: but thC'y have not taken tlH' ncce::;;snry action. The other dav a l>och~ of person.-;; intPrcsh1-d snbn1itt£'d a scft('DH' to LthP .A~:-'istant l-lomc fiecrPtary, but hP IYns llOt nblP to t0ll thcn1 an:c.·thing beyond tlw fad that th .. ir sclwnw would bl• looked into. Dr. Tnnwr points ont tha1 this sb.t~t·~ of afi'nir~ ha~ Pxlstecl for thE' la~t thirty ycar.:s. lmi that it wa~ g0t1 ing \YOl':;;.r-J an cl it is tirne tl1at souw nction was taken.

l\11·. lJ.\RTLEY: \Ye dta!l l>c all rii'ht \Yhc•l \Yt' get a nruuit'ipal :::.upvly.

~Il'. 1\:.EHH: TinH' nnd again. after tlnunp­ing l>Y tlw Oppo:-;itiou_, \Yl' haYl' been able tn f:.!·ct s~>DH' l'P:--nlt::'. I tun g;oing to tDke the opportu11ity of thnn1ping , C'Y0l'Y tin1e un~il :---otn0tlJing· i~ douc. Jndging fl·onr tht; ~tans­tical 1 tttl'tl:'- dealinp: 1vith the bidh rate and thl' tlr•atl1 rate in (JuC'C'll:'lantl. the people of tlw ~ratP gP!lPl'ally ~1waking arP it! a h\'althy C"onditicn. l)llP{•nsland bas th tlurd lughP~t binll ratP, c:tnnpun'cl \Yith tht• other. ~tah's of ~\n.>tmlin. :'\{'\\'Zealand. ullll tlw Bnnsh Islh. That i~ an indication that the }tpahh of thP Pt'Oi>lr• of Qncl'll~lancl ha::;, al\Yays ht'l'll good,. i'o"ibh- clnP to outdoor lifP and 0xc0llem: IJatnral c~Jnditionf'-.

1 want to llO\\. ch'al with thP Yf'llC'rPal hospi~ tals. It is gratifvi11g to learn that a ~pr-eiai u1Pdica! offiC'Pl' J{a:-; lwcu appointPcl to tako ('hi.Ll'g'P of thf• YC'Jlf'l'Pal eJlniC.-3 and thL· VP11el'Pitl

i,q]atl'd lto,pitals. I hop<' that tltL' GovPl'il­nwnt IYill giYP thi:-; n1atter YPry clo:-<P and t·ontinnou~ attention. It 1vill Le found fron1 thC' ~tatistic.-. 1 hat th~·n• an.• a uun1h0r of chilc1n'n u1Jdl'r ten years of ag-P \vho an• inf<'PtPd v.·ith Yl'llPl'<'a) disea;:o .... ..\t cYer.Y agL· a CPl'tnin nu1ubcr a1·c- infccteLl, and doH' actlon nr,rl c!osP attc•ntion are absolutely necessary. The· flgnl'(':-; :-;bow that in Qneen:-:.land to-d<ty for PYf'IT on<' n1ale infPct d there Hl'C' {Lyp fpmales. {nfc'CtP<l. Tlw GoYPl'1lll1Pnt cu·c re~pon­:;;iblP for tlw l'P.ll10Yal of a gr •at ntuubcr of n··,tJ·ictions dealing ·with thP prCY('n.tion of th0 'J1l'Pad of this cliseas0. ThP establishment of irrigation staiions is necco;:-_a.ry to conlbat thls rli>c'n"'· Tlwrc arc some 40.000 irrigations p0r~ formNl e.-en- vem·. ancl that indic 1tes that thi~ CJllC'~ticn~ 1~ m1o of considf'rab~c _in1p_or­tance. \Ye' :-;honkl haYe n10l'C nngatlon ::;;tatiot:~ P~tabli~hccl. not in out-of-thc-·wa.v plarrs. but in cc'ntrally siiuatc<l parts. Tlns particular di~ease 1~ not being restricted. \Y c lincl that in 1920 some 698 fema!Ps. mostlv fol­loi.Ying- a C"'•rt n in profession, "·ere cxamiri.cd in \\'illiarn stred. I n'nturP to sac- that very fPIY nrP exmni11crl 1o-dav bec·an:"l' the con1pnl~ :-;ion that ·rxi~tc·d in prp~·ious year;-; is not uow prcS0JJt. Thi~ dispa~e is not confined t{) tlw principal cities. \\'0 havP it stated ~n the r<'J •o t·t that people a re N·cctY111g a ttentJOn for lt at Cairns. rl\nvnsYillf'. Longreach. and Rocklwmpion. \Yhih• small outside towns, such a' J\Iiichcll. tl'Pat tlwir quota of cases. 'That ~h0\1·:-. that j)C'OPlP with tlrf' di~PQS(' hUYP gOllP fmtn the citir ,-to t0\\'11' likl' :'-.Iitchell. It- is th0r •fore cYiclPnt that a good dL'al of thP rli~Pa~P emanates frorn t.he cities; it is only logical to draw that conclusion. That being so. \\e shonld tackle this question firmly in thP citiPs. The Comnwnweulth Government JW<'Yiou,,Jy grunted a subsidy of ,£15,000 in onlPl' to ('ondwr. thi; disr'ase. I would lik0 the

Jl r. J[ en· :1

58G Snpply. L~~SSK\IBLY.j Suppry.

Home S,•crctar,· to ~tatc whether that subsidy or part of it is 'till available to rho State, and whcthn. if so, it is being availcd of by the State. or if it has been withdmwn by· the Cornmonwcalih Governn1cnt. Pcrsonallv, I have had some expPrionce in the htrge c:itie;; of the Yvorld, and I am glad to say that, comparatively ;:;peaking, Brisbane) C'onsidcr­ing the population. can more than hold it~ own with them. \Ye have not in Brisbane the byways and alleys of the lowest quartNs imaginable that exist in nther cities. There have been cstablislH'd clinics in Cairo, :\Iar­seillcs, and other largo cities of t,ho ·.1·or!d, and not hidden in out-of-thc-wa Y corners, facilities which are not looked UJ;on by the people as something to be pa"ed by quickly, but as something essential to the community. So long ac; that position exists-and it does <•xist--we ought to be manly Pnough to face lbis que~tion. This rtnc.-:tiDn is a VE"l':V im­portant one indeed. and the authorities in Queensland s,!wnld see if they cannot ta.eklo 11. Tho~o an~ t\YO rnattcrs '"hich, in my opinion, should occupy a good deal of atten­tion from the health authorities.

:\Jr. HARTLEY (Fit.orop): Th0 vote is a fairly largp Dnc for the sPrYiCPS W(' grt, and fo1· thP infornHttioJl we p;ct as to ho\Y tiH' JlJODf'y i~ ~pcnt. I rf'gTf't that rh-· reports of tlw HonL• Depal'tl!l('ll1 and the { 'onnni"ionel' of Public HPtdth arP not a.-ailable. TheY are ~·crtainl.v a gTcat aid i11 di~cl_l~'Sing this 'votE:'. I do not see that Pit her the Health Commis­,,ionPl' or the GoYPrnrrwnt :-;honl.cl take 1h0 matter of a pure milk supply for Brisbane in hand. It is not their business. The people' of Brisbane ha.-e the mutter in their mYn hands. just as thP p0oplc of Charters Towers and Rockhampton haYc. If thcv ar0 not g-<>tting a pnro milk supplv. it is tiw fault of 1he people di>trilmtinp; the milk. Tlw tirade (lf the hon. nH'lllhC'l' for Enoo·cr('l'a is onh' ;,notlwr admi.-;sion of th~· disl~~~estv of th8 indi, idnalist cornnH~rcial systmn, 'and the lm•akrlown of thaJ· svstem. Cntil hon. nwm­lwrf'. oppo~itP recogrii~e ihat fact, rnilk "·ill eonhHUP to bL• adult<'ratPd for profit to the ddnl!H'nt of the' infant life in the State.

11r. KERll: A lot of it must be clone on the farm.

:\lr UARTLEY: Tt does noi matter when• it i." ,clont\. it is donf' lH:t·ans0 of the Q\·ils of the ~~·stt1 In uudPJ' \Yhich IYP al'P liYing. That 1~ whnt th0 hon. lllPJnber for Enor.rgera ('an­not SP(1

• \Y0 arc living nnder a ~~'.~tc1n that ,dlo,,·~;;. pPoplt~ to snppiv tuilk o{ anv sort n1erPlv for profit. witliout respect for the lwnhll of thP comn1unitv. That :'3'< ,~ten1 is lK;ttnd to can~c- t_hc snp.pliers to {11:-rcgarcl vdwt the cffcn will be on the infant life of the State. It sinlp]y ~hows tl1at th(' hi(,. n1ilk-d.istributing C'om[wn](':-; do not ('Hr(' t.w~--:_ pt·LCP v .. -Iwtber ther an~ sellillg poi::>on or not ~o long- ws lhey Sl'll it.

ThP rPnledv is not through anv GovPrn­JlJPnt ':"du:::.nH~ of inspection'. but~ mnst. b£\ echic\·cd bv the municipalitY taking thP mattPl' lu hand, and s~c·inr~; f-hat a propel' milk SU!ll>l: is pnwided. also that a better ~.-stPm of {listri but ion is provided. I hono that whc'n th0 GrPat0r Bri~banc :;;f'heme 'is con,..nmnullcd it will being about in Brisbane -and that similar schemes will bE' found in other big· citie,s of the Sto.te-a municipal milk "'Pill.", mm1icipal abattoirs. and other requisites nE'cessary for t.ho welfare of the pc•oplc in a gn'at State like Queensland. That is the rE'med:v. and it is no good asking the Government for relief or blaming thorn

[Mr. Ilerr.

for pre:o:.ent conditions. It results sin1pl~· frctL rhe> cheating pract-ices of rnilk-~cller:-:-. and rli~tributing cOITillanics.

. .\.nothet· thing Jhat makes the milk supply poor, aud puts it in thP hands of un·~crupu­lollS ]Wr:::;on~. is the ~elf-,,alllC regulation.-:. that the hem. 'lH'Jnb"r ep0aks of. Brisbane tlnr1 oth0r c0nh·f'-'~ al'C so Inollycoddlocl with l'Cf.tulations that ~oon \YP shaH not bo .ab]e to n•OY(~ aLout \':ithout baYing half a dozPn cloctors at our elbowR to sec that we do not come iu conta('t IYith ·OHl(' flying rnicrolJc~ ThL' Lord onlv knmy,; how I and other men. l~ay(\ got out 'of sotne of the plae0s that \YP

hun• found onrscln's in. I suppose half the doctor~. uf Brisba1w .vould throw fit& if the:~· ~aw ~on1c of the walcr that some hon. 111€'111-bPr~ on this "iclc of thP House have had to drink from timP to titnc.

-:\h·. EDVv'.\RIJ~: 1.,herl1 arc ::.on1c on thi-; side. too.

:'llr. IIAHTLEY: Yei we did not gl't any of tlv' horrible tbiJJg:. tbat the hon. rnen1ber fo1· Enogrrera l1as "been talking about. I quitl1 .admit that >":'tupidit·y will run a perso!l in1o any kjnd of .~ickl?_(':;:s. I notice that. it I~ g'CJH'raliy the fat HlH1 lazy 1nan who geis all thcs0 fPY(lr.:.. \Lanj2;hter.) On~: of the effect~ of a1I 1-hP~C' .i"Pgnla1ion~ is 1·lw atternpt to beat Xature hv pradi('ating tlw 111osquito. The authoritiP~ <·Onlpo1 all water receptacles to be co,·~rPd. and prosecute pPople who do not. eo.-Pr thPm. It may happen that a lot of people hr..-e kept a c'auplP of ,-er,v finely brPd ecws, bnt when these regulations began to be enforc-ed thev \ruuld not bothPr anv further with their ('0\v~. The samP re1nari{ applies to tlw l1Palth rPc>;ulatinm as to th0 disposal o£ maJoure. Cnle~s a pcr~on is prP)lared to p:o around nftP1· th0 cow wiih .a garbage pan i11 one l1anu ar,d a brush in the other he is liablP to be prosecuted b~- a hPalth inspector. Xo on<• \Yould bother about that. There IS·

rC':JsonablPilC'S."' in all things, and I admit that rlcanJinf'R~ i:-; necc.ssar:v; at the .--an1f', time I think that a lot of tlwse health regu­latiom <tre siupid and too drastic and too (·Xpensivc_• to ";\Torking veopJe.

:\Ir. KEHR: Th,, hon. mr-mbcr would no, taek!P th0 milk wppl>· at all.

::\1r. TT ARTLEY: I arh·isc my young-· fl'iPlld--

TJW CI-L\IH:\L\X: Order~ I '"'k ihc hon~. mPmbc'r to acltlre'·' the Chair.

:\h. HAHTLK¥: I aJ,-ise the hon. mPm­ht·r fnr Encgg-era. throug·h the Chair~ (iung·htPr)-tiJat I would tackle the question of tlie milk ,uppl:.· ihrong-h th<' city eouneil. I ltone that whr•n thP Greater Brisbano ~chem',, i.~ con~·tanmaled. and an adYanccd' c-cuncil of progYPssiYf' Labour mon i,s f'lcct.cd. thr>Y' will c!Pal nor only with the milk nrob­ll'nl bn: \Yith all otlw;· important problems.

The;·<' is one nmti<'r I seriously [3.30 p.·n.[ DPPd eon1c information about,

bee: a Uf'C' t h0 ret lort.:-:; are nDt here, "ll<l I "'" »b,;ulLttPlv in the .Jark. I do noj. Jikc· being ir1. th0 dclrk on ~nch an i1nportant 111atter.

:\Ir. FRY: You arc mostly in the dark.

::\Ir. IIAHTLEY: If I am in the dark, I ran ah.-a•·s fincl tlw hon. member, because You r-an ~lwav,; find a donkcv bv the noise­he makP>. (I"aughtcr.) I look" upon this quPstion of nwsquito eradication as a pretty big- v·:a:;:tc of rim0. and, \Yhat is 111ore to the point. wme of thl' reg:ulations, compelling people to cut down beautiful shade trees-

Supply. [3 S:cPTDIBER.] Sup,;/y, JS7

<HDUIH1 1hL•it hnmc:->. lw{'au~e lcaYe~ h·on1 the tTf'e.':> get into the spouting ·where n1o:Squitoes 1night breed. are absolutely silly. I saw thar a gL'ntkman the other day at Too­wouinba ga YC' a. lecture ou the ubiquitous mos'luito, and he said he did not think water \vas nt all necessary for them to breed in, and ho g-o.Yc it as~ his experience that he had fmmd them in dry places, I hase found them in some of the dry spots of the \V est in the middle of the big drought when there was no rain at all, and I have found them in big clouds too,

lion. \Y, lL BAR~ES: There must be somo teL'hltal lllosquitot's. (Laughter.)

::\lr. H"\R TL F:Y : "'\ccording to the Health lJepanuwnt, they are nearly all ieetotal, LP<·t:•E "j' tlh'Y <ty tbat if you 111ix anything· \Yitb tht' 'Yaf<._',' it settles them, and it gPncrall~· Sl'ttles a teetotaller as \Yell as the tno:-.quito. It dPpcnds on how much you 1nix v:ith thP 'vntcr. I \vant to kno\r what hao bePn 1 he result of the expenditure, how much it has DCl'll, \Yhat number of rno~qnitoes to the n~illion haYe been d,•,JruyPd, and what is the cost per head of clL·~troying thetn-(laughtor)-and I hope the 1wn. g(•utleruan will supply that infor­nw1ion.

::\Ir. CL\ YTOX (Trirle Iky): I should not haYe :--.pokPn on this -..;oto but. for the report which ,. ·" stated to be signed by the GoYern-111<'111 .-\nal·cst and the remarks of the hon, nu·tnbcl' fo~1. :Enoggcra. That hon. 111Cn1be1· llliH~t' 1 1110:::>1 alarrning staternenL

Hon. :,L J, KJRWA~: l\1y word, he Llid:

:\Jr. CLA YTOX : If I find the statement ha" bt>l'll authorj:-;ed as {'Orrcc1·, by the GoYern­nwm ~\naly•t, ::\ir, IlPnderson, then the posi­tion is st>rious. But for thR.t report I could not have heli<),~ccl it possible.

Hun, ::\L .J. KmwAx: \Yhat did Mr. 11 cndcrsou ~ay'?

::11". CLA YTOX: Tlw lwn. member for EnoggPra infonn~ n1c that in his report he otares that in th<' milk mpply of Brisbane cigarette dumpers. leather~ sputun1, larv.a­eidcs, and urine ha Ye boen found. If you find the milk oupply of Brisbane c0ntaining ouch snlhuuwes ao that, then it is time tho Health DcpnrtnH•nt n1adc a thorough invP~tiga.tion and dealt :-;-L·ingently with any Y<'ndor s01ling­milk containing such substancps, \Yith l'Pgard to tltc suppl~Y of 1nilk gcn()l'ally to tlw c·iries-I restrict mY remarks to the cold tni1k ~nppl::·~~o111cthing should he done to proYirlc' for a pnrer supply of milk to ihe cit~·. <l:i Jl'iJk 1s 0110 of our llW'it inqJOrtant foods, p:;;pPcially a·'· regards t.ho younger generation. _._--\~ ono \Yho is supplying a. retailer ju the town of ~laryborough, I know something about the subject. At the preHent tin1o our dairy pron1iscs are subject to in.'!H'c-tion by the officers of the DPpari­lllPllt of Agriculture; then your cows arc subjec-t to inspection by a veterinary surgeon who is also an officPr of the Department of .Agril'ult.ur:~; and then yonr 1nilk suppl:v comes unrlcr the Hi'alth Department. If we could pln<'C' thC' "·hole of the milk supply question-that is as to the health of the ea ttlc and all-under the one department, it would be in the intcn,ts of the consumers of milk in the city, and that suggestion >honld be taken up,

lion. ).1. J. KTRW_\X: Yon suggest that, in the LHse uf dairies supplying milk for COlJ~UlHption?

::\lr, CLAYTOX: Yes. I adyooatc that. and I think it would be a moYo in the right direction, I have had a few years' practical experience in this matter, and n1y opinion !s that you get a. more "·holeson1o article by' the use of milking machines than you do with hand-1nilking and going round to see that eYery cow is in a proper milking state. But whether milking is done by machine or by hand, there is a filwr used in many dairies­those in ,vhich great care is exercise-cl-by mcam of which all the milk is filtered through cotton wooL I havt alwa} s insist<:>d on this cotton-wool filter being used in con­nerrion IYit-h 1ny business, and it ,,·ould ''1Hprise bon. nwmbers if they could see what is comainc<l in that cotton-wool filter after the milk goes through, Seeing the trouble wP ha n~ iu eonnection with our n1ilk supply, ancl that the butter we put on the market is »oic of thl' same >tandard as that of other r·ountric,, it \Yould be a step in the right direction to sec that these fUters are used to take awn:v the impurities \Yhich exist in In ilk \\hi eh if' 1lot ·trained in a proper 1nanner. I tru~t that ~OIT-f>t hi11g wi11 he donp tD allc­YiatP thP mortality and sufl'ering which takc• plac<' amongst tlw younger children in. many of ou1· eitics.

Hox. ::\L J. KIRWAl\ (Brisbane): The decrl'a'C in th<' yotc is largely due to the fact that £2,000 less \Yill Lw spent. this ~·car in C'On~wction with the hoolnYonn campaign, "·hid1 has been conductpd throughout the Stat0 for 80ll1C tinw vYith the assistance of tlH' ( jonl~llOJHY·Calth. Thn can1paign is prac­ticJlh· now comple!ecl, and that accounts for i he dC'CJ'0U~c in the Yotc.

rrho bon. Inc1nber for Enoggcra n1adc a ra1 h(•r reinarkablP ;;;tah•m0nt. 1vhich iR quite "haracteristic of him, b:: nading an extract fron1 thP GovernnH)nt Aual:v~t"s rP.port pur­pOJ·ting io elate what '"as found in milk analvst~d bY that !.!·entlPman in the citv of Ihisbnne, 'The hon. nwmber did not m1der­>tand dw statement, b<'cnuse it does not apply to milk at alL On pagf' 690, YOL 1, of tlH"' '' Parliamcntar~· PapPl'R~' for last year the Covcrnn1e11t .. -\.naly~t giYPS a table in \Yhich lw mentions the food ,•nd drugs which \YP1'0 dC'a lt with h, him in his official cctpal·it~·, In that Ji,·r he mentions milk and a larg·c nu•nlwr of other artiel<'S, Under the title 'of '' ::\Iiscellancous" he >;ays there \\'ere 253 mi~ee1lanpou~ artiC"lP~ or · san1plPs sub­l1littf'c1 to hin1 for ana1ysi~. He says-

,, The 253 mie-collancous samples in­rlntlf'd crPan1 of tartar. 'egg noodles.' cigan'ttcs, tobacco, lcath0r, yern1in de­~troyPr~. larYacicle~J ·wine, sputurn, gcla·­iinf', c1onc1v an1n1onia. cvanide, urine,. hydronwt0r< butter prc,er~-atiYes, borax, boric aC'id, citric and tartaric acids., solar PcllpsC' Sf't~. and bPer piping."

(Laughter,) That is what the GoYernment AnalYst had submitted to him for examina­tion.· Those things "·ere not found in the milk at all. (Renewed la\.\ghtcr,)

The ho11. n1en1bPr cprtainlv raisPd a Ycr:.,. important f]twstion when he rriade rcfPrt>nce to i b0 ne<'<''Sit.v fo,· •clPaling "·ith the milk supply, It is qnite" tnw that ·a H't'Y rcprC'stmtutiY<• deputation waited on mP tho othPr day and 1nadc certain H'C0111Illf'11dation~ on this Yf'l'T in1portant qtu'~.tion; but the hon. n1en~b~r should not complain that I did not stratg'll, rnyay sa:'\' that I 'vas going to do this or that, This is n mattc>r which requires con­s1llf'ratlon und inYestigation. l~ccausc Yarions nwthocls arc employed in clifferPnt paris of

Jl;·. Ilincan.]

Supply. [ASSE:\lBLY.] Supply.

th,. world. In :\Idbonrne there is one svstcm: iu \Yellington. ~ew Zealand, there i3 a diff0rent systen1 , entirely; ,\·hcreas in othc'r quarter' of the globe it is dealt with in another manner altogether. Thercfm·e ·w~' have to consider the position as we find it jn BrisL,lne to-tlaY. auJ I .can assure the -hon. :ne1nber aucl t'l)u Con11nitree that. th0 departtncnt i:::. quit(\ aliYc to the nccessit.~­oi dealing· \Yith thi·• particular qtwstion. I 1nu~t say that I an1 inclined to agree ·with th1· ;.;uggestion of the haiL mcn1ber for l·,itzroY that it is reallY a local anthorihT :n1attt•1:. To 1t1y ''"ay or thinking-and t11c DlOl'l.' I con::-icler the quc;:;tion the IllOl'C' in­clinNl am I to the• cotwlu,ion-thc Coneoli­Llatetl RcYl'llue t-honld Hot be called upon to l)l'Hl' tlw l'~pcn:-p of nwintaiuing the health oi the pc ople, but tlw cost should be borne• hv the loc<tl authoritie., whose dutY it is. L is f]Uitc; po"iblc that the Goyc•rnmcut f.-1-::.ould lwY\.. officers to whon1 rC'fr•runcc rnight h~ nwde ill a n1attcr of this fiort. just a..., they ern ploy c·11glneer.;., and ot hPr highl,\· nualiiicll lllf·ll rn advi.~e local anthoritirs in ,;!her splwre,. The hon nwmbcr for Enog­;:era also said that hr hoped the councils

onld lw compelled to kc''Jl i.heir areas (·~c·an. T u1ake the stah•Hlcnt that whcrevPr thf' C'onnnj:->'3ioncr think" it ll0C0N•ar\· to ('Olll­

]Jt>l local <1uthorixics in thP nw1.rorJOlitan r:rea or a.ll:_\"\YhcrL' pl::;e in QnPeiBland lo carr:v .sJut their lJonuden duty of kePping their area;; dean and healthv. hr will have mY

·npport ~u long a~ I 1:crnain in charge Of i lw dt'JH1rtn1ent.

Hoxonnnu: MniBER": Hear, h<>ar!

Hox. ::\1. J. KIRWAC\: It shonlcl bl' a. Y1_•ry :->il1llJk ntaHPr to cmnpcl PYery rcsid,_-,nt ill a ]null anthuriP' nl·t.'il to k('E'P hi-.; o'v11 Yard dc•a1L 1f that \\E'l'P done. the question t1l the_, gc-nf'ral ('h'allliness of the area would ,,ot be• ··\"N." difficult. If thNc' are people \vho n'ftJ:'-P to n_·cogui~e their dear tlntv iu this rc,ped. the local authorit0 concei·ncd Fi1nnld have' no hC'~itatioll in pro~ecuting thf'nL Jt i~ 1101 fair to exi10ct the conl­lr:nnity to :;;pcnd n1oney cleaning up dirt:· yard~. and I :->Pc no reason why ihf' Con­>oliclatcd Rc•Yenue should \Jp used for the pm·pos0 to \Yhich it has been put quite recently of cleaning np iocal nnthorit:-· areas and doing work. the cost of which the conncils shoulrl bear themsc>h-es.

The hon. JTIP111L0r also n1ad.o roforcnco to YC'HCl'Pal di:-~ea:-;p. I f)Uite agT('t' that thif' iR n Ycry sPrions proble1n and one ·which has dairncd the attPntion of lll('dical authoritiPs rhrougl~out

1 Au~tra)ia. Only quite. recently

I saw 111 t11c pubhc .Press a :::tarthng statc­lHPnt n1adP by a rnC'dical rnan regardiug tlw condition nf thillg> iu Melbourne. but I think that lHHlPr thi~ Uovcrrnncut and uncl0r the ]H'PYiou~ (;ovprnnlellt the acln1inistration in Qneen:-;]and in this 1naitcr has been n1nf'h n:orP t"ffeetiYP than in tU!\. of thP other f;tatP~ of tllP Con1monwealth. ·\Ye have n1ad0 an hone't altclllpt to grapple with the position. "\Ye ha,'t' no\\- a Jnedira] officer dC'YOting hi:-> wllOlP tlrnC' and aUL'lltion to dPalinq- with the ';J!"<:JblPrn, a11cl gi,-ing professional advice to the vnforilmRtP snffprerfl \vho at1t\nd the various dinics. It was suggested that we shoulcl }wYP. a c~ii1ic in a cr~ntral por6on of the city. 1 t1nnk 1 ha! the ho11. HH'l:nber for Enoggera. "honld Teal"<> that it is not adYisable. to r.ur it- plainly. to haYP it in a place \Yherc 1;·~ charnctel' v.-ill bP gC'unra1ly known. If \\o-t' an' to 0lH·ouragP the uufortunah" Bulferer~ to { nnw along an(l subn1it to ti·eatn1ent. we

[ Jir. Eincan.

do not want i.o have a place such that a passcr-b:, who sees a person going in will know ·what he i~ going 111 tor. \\ l' kc•e1> It

(IS private as possible jn order to cncouragt' :-.nf·h persons to con1o aud get trC'atnH~lit and lJ · restored to health. The Commonwealth gra11t an1ounts to ~ome1hi11g in the vicinit,· o{ £3.000. which is out share of approxt· mutely £15.0CO, and I can assun the hon. member and the Committee that good work " heing done so far as this State is con­et·J'llf\d.

The hon. member for Fitzrov asked what ,\·as being done in connectiOn 1.virh the lllO~;quito can1paig11. rfhat is largely a Illatter for the local euthorities. While the hon. g(_~ntlPinan is quite entitled to his opinion, nught I rPspectfully suggest to him that he (·onsider the probh•m from this aspect: It is (\lll\ that has rcct~ntly been 1nade a gTeat deal lllOl'<' important by virtue of the fact that the I>I(HI<H!Hl Canal is open, and it is possibl(~ that disease::-; of a ~erious na 1 ure m a v be introduced and spr·ead in Queensland. 'l'llere­fore the Commis.3ioncr of Public Health is ~d!ve to . the. ncccs~ity for preYenting iho rntroductton mto Queensland of a certain type of yellow fever as far a' possibk. throug-h human knmdedg·e, skill, .and general arlmi1lj'3tration.

:Vlr. H.IRTLEY: How does the l'anama Canal aff~rt that'?

Hox. J\I. .J. KIR\YA::\f: Might I ask the hon. gentleman how we got bubonic plague and other diseases into Queensland ;

.:\ir. H.\RTLEY: \Yould we get it from Pana1na "?

Box. ~\I. .J. KIR\YA"': \Ye can get small­pox and other di~ea:-:es fro111 the Ea':.t, and. generally speaking, tho~e di~ease~ are brought herP by ye,.·;;,e]s. So long as 'ye have t i'adc and conuncrce with other countries, 1 hen the particular diseas('s which are preva­le-nt in those connh'ics can be introduced into o\ustralia. The men who went tD New Uuinca in the early days of the gold rush then' came Lack with malaria.

Hon. J. G. APPEL: They get it still.

.:\Jr. 1-IARTLEY: They do not get that from tho mosquito.

Hox. :YI. J. KIRW AX: I do not pretend to be an authority on this matter, but I ha,·e io take the ad1·ice of the Commisisoner d Public Health on these matters, and I ~Yill endea \'our to administer m:-· department in a con1mon-sens·C rnanner. If I an1 satisfied that the adYice of the Commissioner of l'ublic Health is sound-and I haYe 110 reason to fJLWSlion his ach·ico on this and other matrors-I will endeavour to back him up. I ca.n as.:-uro the hon. 1nen1bcr for Enoggera. and othe1· hon. nwmbcr>< that I Tecogniso the importance of the Department of Public Health, and I am not inclined to restrict its operations in any way. I will certainly see that the local authorities carry out their bounden duty to the ratepayer,:

HmiOl'RABLE .ME11BERS: Hear, hear !

Hox. :\I. J. KIRWAX: If the Govern­nwnt. the ::Vlinistcr, or the Commissioner Df Public Health take action. I hope I am not going- to be rushed by llDn. members asking­me to hold my hand.

Hon. J. G. APPEL: "Sufficient for the day i;; the eYil thereof.''

Hox. M. J. KIRW~\X: If a local authority carries out it.-. duty and keeps its area clean,

Supply. [3 SEPTE)IBER.] Sup ph. 589

and another local authority refuses or neglects to do its dut0 , it is not fair to spend money from tho Consolidated Revenue in "kaning up that loc..tl authority's area. T£ a local authorit:,· fails to recognise its duly and the Commissionpr of Public Health takes a certain action to compel it to do the ri"ht thing, then lw \Yill be backed up by me."' I .can assure hon. n101nbers that in the metro~ polit an area, o\\·ing to the operation of the ,Jomt. Health Board, the city, generally ~pealoug, 1:3 clean, and \Ire jutend to keep it ttt that state. The work of ratproofing the whan·os wtll act, I am sure in the ·direction ~,f preYenting an outbreak ~f bubonic plague m the future. The shipping companies have co·operated, and the work has been success­fully carried out. \Ve are hopeful now that such effective work has been carried out that it will prevent the repetition of such an out­break as we had a few years ago.

. Mr. F. A. COOPER (!Jrunrr): I \Yould ltke to make a few remarks while the !ton. men1ber for Enoggera is gett.ing suitable v;or·ds to £ran1e an apology to the Assi~tant Ylinister for his rHisstateniCntrS. In the lllCan­

tinw. I \Yould like to cotwratulat.c the Assi~t-aJlt ~1ini~ter on hi~ attitude towards the loea! authorities in the matter of the :-.npPrYi:..:iou ol health reg·ulations. I tru-st that lw i,; not )!;oing to cl1t. out all the good officers of the State who are working in the intcrcsL" of the public health. I believe that the local a uthoritiPs nred some supervising authoritv to see that tlwv do their >vork properly. \Yf\ know that difficulties do arise between lof'a1 [)Uthorities in the 1natter of bouncla ry roads and boundary bridges. and the Home Dt'portmcnt has to step in to see that the twrties concPrn0d bear their fair slun·c. It. do. s scmctimPs oceur that there i; a difference bet wct•n local authorities-one local authority doing its best to presf'rve the pul>lie lwalth. and the other local authority doing Jiothin{r. Consequently. 1nuch of the good work clon0 by the g·ood lo<'al authorit.y is nmlone b,· 1lw bad \Hlrk of the bad local authm-it:c. ·

I regret that I cannot agree with rn:v col­lf'aguP. the hmL tneinber for Fitzro~', in his attitude to"·ards the mo-oquito. I regard the nto~quitn as one of the greatest pests. that \Ye

ban•. Anymw who can sleep without con­tPnlp1ntillg- the rayag{•.3 of thP n1osquito has a \-cr,v poor imagination. and, in 111y opinion. is prcpare"l to put up with a lot of things which the avHagc• citizen would not submit to In speaking of the fly aud mosquito, I do not knm,· which is the \Yorse pest. At any rate. while we have people who are con­tent to a!low tlwso pests to have their full Ring· 1Y0 t!H' likely to lJaYC' di:;;case ra1npant among·st. n.~. It i:-; the duty of the Depart­nwnt ,,; Pu'•lic liC>alth to ece that the local authorities perform their cluties 0fficientlr attd well. I uumot understand for tho liie of 1nc hcJ\V any aut.hority can be negligent in the extermination of the mosquito or the fly. I will invito an~·one who has not studied the question to ~-(·!11<1 ti!ong with me to a. restaurant. I \Yill then' suppl:; him with t\\·o {}inner::-. onf' oyer \'\'hi<'h the flies and f'ockroa(·hrs ha\-e hc>('ll runninp:. and another over which thcv ban• not. and I will leave it to th0 tnan's. own judgment -..vhich dinner lw 11·i!1 c·hoose. If I havP a correct idea of him, lw wi!l dtoo'e the dinner which he ,;up­poses to be a dean dinner. It is high time that we took a stand on this matter and expressed ourselves very definitely in rela-

tion to thc•sc p0~t~ which al'P carrying di3-ease. I would ask hon. u1en1bers to lK•a.r with mn for a moment and look at the com­mon house. flY. Ir follows man and stays wdh hirn -whC'r<'vcr he Q:oes. The conunon house-flv has 10,000.000 eyes. so that it mi53es nothino:- rhat co1nes its way. It has rnore­hair 01~ id back and more \~·hiskcrs than the most unshaven resident of '' \Yoop-woop'' -hairc; capable of carrying germs !'iving the most disastrcus rcwlts. It ts dtfficult to see whether it has a nose or not, vet it does not miss one smell. It i1as a proboscis that the greatest "sticky­beak" in the \vorld \vould envy. It g·oe& into c\·ory habitation antl stays there. I cannot compreh<'tKl for one moment anyonG takitw the bouee·fh· to his bosom as a friend. It li\~s eH'H\Yher.c. It lives wherever man goes, .and in~ wn1c places stays longer than he does \Vith disastrous results. _.\]though the fly is alwa\·~ wid1 u~. it is not ~urh a faith­f;Il 0crnpai1ion as a dog: Lut " it sticketh closer than a brother.'' If \YC do not take .oteps to wipe it out, it wi!l ultimately wipe u,; out. I truM that the Department. of Public Health will keep the loeal authonttes, not here and there but evN.nvhere, alive to their respor:.sibilities. so that. we nuty haye <nme peace in the hours of the day from the flv and in the ];ours in >vhich we sleep from the mo."quito. I understand that the loeal emporiums at Ipswich eell somethmg ltke £5,000 or £6.000 worth of nwsqutto.nets a. vear. vet the Ioeal authority there does not ~Jwnd '£5.000 ot· £6,000 on exterminating th~ nloSqGito. ~..\. mnch g:rc~te1' amount .1s spent in Brisbane on mosqmto necs, whtle very little is expended in a campaign to _wipe out th~ mosquit·o. \V e allow the cht!dren to ,Jeep in ,tuffy rooms, made morp stuffy by the use of mosqUito nets, m that they will not suffer from the filaria and other con­taminations of the mosquit.o. \Yh~· we should '! 1e foolish t•nough t.o go on in the old, old ways I ea nnot undPrstand. I hope that the Home SPcrctan: will not ll<' affected 111 any wav bv the re1r1arks of the hon. member for Fitzro\·. but will c·all on his officers to msti­tute a' <'Ullipaign against the n1osquito and the fly.

:VIr. KERR (Eno(![lfl'O): I have here the report of the Government Ana.lyst for the vear ended 30th J uno, 1923. In one para­graph it sa.ys thali 476,000 gallons .of adulter­ated milk were sold, and I tned to get from the table in the reporto exactly how that quantity came to be adulterated. If anv hon. member had the report tn frO!;t of.him. be would notice that the rcp()rt ts set out in paragraphs. One para~raph ts the paragraph I have quoted to tins Chamber and which rea<ls-

" . . In the casL' of fresh milk, how~1-pr. wh€'rC no preJiniinar;' testing is pos~ible anfl IYhero Ran1pl0:=<. are tal~en indiscriminately. the . proportwn . w~wh fails is probably a ~atrly corroc! mdt<:a­tion of the proportwn of mfenor tmlk supplied to the public. The ,~53 miscel­laneous samples included--

ancl then follows the quotation I previously read. It does not say that the'c mtscel­laneous samples are milk, but tt refer·s to those samples jn the ~ame paragraph 1vhere milk is dealt with, and the a yera.gc person would naturally assume that. the samples referred to were samples of mllk.

I frankly acknowledge that the Minister

Mr. Kerr,}

'5\JO Suppfy. [ _\SS.E:YIBL Y.] Supply.

La~ no1v cl0ared the :-.ituation. and I hope that· in fuiun• tlfo,c responsible for prepar­jng these rcprnts \\-ill" n1akP their 1ncaning ('lc:arer. If 1nilk is dc>alt with in one para­gTaph. that· paragTaph shoukl lw confined to milk. J'\o pcr>on could rcaclilv determine what these• 253 miscellaneous sa1~1ples repre­"'ntcd. It \Yould appear that they wero milk. but it turns out they arc something Bntir0ly different. ::Yiiscollaneous might '{>a;ily rncan s1U11plcs taken in the dairy, rail­way stations. when being delivered, etc. The situation now appears to be dearod up, but il does not g<•t a wa v from the fact that 476.000 gallons out of the 4.000.000 gallons of n1ilk consumed in Brisbane are being adul­terated to-day. and £7.140 is the price-in the money sense-that is being· paid cl: ber-F of Brisban(' for 47.600 gallons of what was sold a" milk but which \vas only water.

Mr. \VEIR: According to you, \Ye arc get­ting cigarettes for nothing.

}lr. KERR: I am still of the opini~n that the Go.-crnmcnt are verv lax Jll handling this all-important question of milk. A good deal can be done to improve the position. Hon. members opposite have men­tioned that the Government should take controL I sa;;· that it is a government function to initiate controL The suppliers themselves ha.-c tried to gf't control of the supply of milk. and thev have not received the con­sideration the~-- should from the Government. The time must come when we must chill and pasteurise the milk supply. That is the only safe way that it may be passed on to children and ihe infirm.

I notice in an American papN that cows over there could practically be kept in a drawing-room. they arc so scrupulously clean. The milk is bottled there much the same as beer. There, is no question of th<> eonsumer contaminating the supply by the use of unclean jug~. Ron1c sin1ilar systen1 n1ust be initiate.cl bv the Comn1issioncr of I'uhlic H0alth. but the suppliers must have controL \Ye must g·ct a pm·p milk mpply.

2-lr. HARTLEY (Fit roy) : I would not hcn-c ris0n to S!.1t>ak again had it not been for the remark>; of the hon. member for Brcmcr. There is a diffcrcnc• betwc0n clcanli­nc'":-' and attcn1pting to dodge ever~· fly and ('YPry mof'quito ).'OU see~ ns thongh they v, ''l'O devils with two horw; and a tail. The parallel the hon. membPr brought forward was abso­Jntely stupid. ::'\o one would attempt to dPal with food that had been infcctecl \Yith insects.

If hP had anv sense at all, whether P p.m.J he '"'" camiJing in a tent in the

bui3h or lh-jng in a first-class resi­dence in town. he 'VcLdd take good care to kc'UP his fo(Jcl dean. But with rc'gard to the ex:venditure on the extcrn1ination of tho 1no~quito, fron1 th(' expl•rience we haYo had in Queensland of the mosquito, I regard it as an <'xpenditurc- of thousands of pounds on a fad. Take the explanatio;l gi.-cn by the Minister that the Panama. Canal 's now op0n and brings tlw steamer traffic so much clos<'r to Bri>bane that we arc in dang~r (Jf ;:n ontbrPak of "Yellow Jack." \Vhv, ,d10n the Panatna Canal ''"as being con~ strnctl'd, the death rate amongst the men working on the canal from yellow fen'r was 5omething tTen1endou,:j.

Hon. J. G. APPEL: Until theY cxterminatPcl the mosquito. ·

Mr. HARTLEY: It was stated that in order to presen-e the health of the camp they must

[M~- Kerr.

<1 radlcatc t}w rno:-;qnito. ancl dwy lOYPl'Od the pool:-;~ poncl...-., and ~wan1ps with k ro:-:ene. an-d to sornc extent thev extern1inated the 1110:"­

quito. and tlwy sai~l subscquelltlY t h?.t t hc·~­had {'radicated "Yellow Ja.ck." ::'\m1·. if tlw:: erar1icat,,d "Yellow Jack" in Panarna. I take it the:-· \Yl'l'P smart enou;_ h to kcP)l thL' old rPosquito down once they got hin1 dov.-n-~o where ean be the danger of ~·p}Jow L ,-er frDnl Panan1a? You either have not cxtcrmillnh1 tl the ruo:-;quito in Panarna, or there is no tLtng_('l.

o: '· Y-.-ellow Jack'' being introduced 1wre. ~o far a~ 1ualaria gops, I n1_ay say that I haYI~ 1 iYf'd at certain times in sorra; of t hP ,,.or3t Jnalaria spots that can be found in Queen~-1anJ, and tlw san1c applies to son1e part;:;; of .-\frica: and in n(v opinion the 111o~quito ha::3 YPJ'\' little to do with inoculating peopl<> with 111aiaria. although it ma:v be a carrir'l' after­\vards. The {'Xpenditure in and arouud Bri:-­banC' on mosquito destruction has bPen stupid, and the destruction of the beautiflll orna­rncntal trees surrounding the house~ has been stupid, too. vVhat is the good of ,drainin:1: a few holes here and there and putting " nu m her of dollars ·extra into the pockets of the plumber, because as soon as these silly regula­tions were gazctted, up w0nt the price of wire gauze to keep mosquitoes in the tanks. A few tanks were coYered, and I am prepared to bet that you cannot walk Yery far in any one direction after you get -down to Eagle June· tion or out at \Vhinstanes where I live with­out going up to your knees for hundreds of yards in a swamp. \Vhy does the Health Depariment not start and drain this swamp first, if it is a breeding-ground for mosquitoes? I sa:-· it is not, and I have just as much right to give an opinion, as I have had practical experience, as a lot of these scientific chaps ·who are ahva:vs monkeying round with r miscroscope. \Yhen :vou walk up to the top of a mountain and there is no water within five miles of you. and you find the mosquitoe~ worse than they are down on th·' flat adjace:'t to water~ you do not put n1uch credence 111

the :varn tha,t mosquitoes arc bred in swawps. I do not believe they arc.

I will give the Commissioner of Public Health a test. if need be. At the mouth of the Fitzroy RivPr there is a prettY big delta. with several streams branching off. It is very flat th0re, and there is a big f'xpanse of saltpans. On one occasion I yva~ riding there, and when I got io the whaTf opposite Ca3uarina Island n1v friends can1c down 111 answer to n1v " coOce" to bring- n1C' acro:-;s the passage. ·They yelled. "Have cverythin,r-; ready and get off as quick as you can. \Yhen I got do>vn to the pontoon I found the reason for that. Casuarina Pa::o:;:,age was w thic-k with mosquitoes that while one man was rowing another man had to fan him with his hat and fan himself at the same time. (Laughter.) T-his may sound like' a ::\Innrhausen varn. but it 'vas an actual occurrence. V\-;riwn we got ashore and threw everything out, \VC were quicker in getting out of that boat than if she had been loaded with hot pitch. It took two of us going turn and turn about to ti0 h0r up on account of the mosr1uitoes. \Yhcn we got up on to tho bank where there ":as some wind, our hands w0re cO\·ere<:l wtth blood. That passage is filled with clouds o" mosquitnrs, and those saltpans arc covered with mosquitoes as thick as you can get them. It is a pretty time we are going to haw, putting kerosene on the tail of every one of those mosquitoes. (Laughter.)

Supply. [3 SEPTE;\IBER.] Supply. 5Hl

Ho:-:. J. G. AP!'EL (.lliJfltl: It is satis­Lctorr to hear from the :\linister that there has been such u clearance of nuisance" in the cily, and that rnovision has lwcn made rhat no wasiP foo<l shall he allowe<l to remain about and thus attrad rats. Appar­"mtly from the repmt tlwre is a Yery small Jlcrcentagl' of rats now ln Bri~bane conl­parecl io what there "·ere bef01·,,_ I would like tlw Minister io g-o a little further alield. \Yl1ile ho has dearc>rl the rats out of the city proper he has <lriven them into the suburbs. I want to !mow if his art<'ll­tion has been directed to the fowl runs in congested suburban areas where food i,; flung into small <'nelosures for the fowls.

'That certainly attracts thl' rats. lYfv atten­tion has been drawn to that matter while I hare he0n living in Brishauc> during thP 1Jr~:s~nt Ression, and I would suggeRt to th<' l\fm1ster that he should not onlv ext0rminate rats in the city, but should extend his cam­paign into the suburbs, and see that no "aste food is allowed to lie about in these little fowl enclosures, as it attracts the 1·ats. which can be se0n running aiJout in the t'nclosures.

Mr. \VARREK (.liurrumba): I cannot agree with the suggestion of the hon. mem­

.,!Jer for Fitzroy with regard to mosquitoes. The fact that there are great numbers of mosqUitoes m many parts of the countrv does not justify the Department of Publi'c ~c;alth slackening its efforts as far as the ciii_es are concerned. The department should str1)<:e at the rats wherever it can do so. !t IS. a good thing to know that something Js bemg don<' to stop the breeding of these wretched pests.

I woul? like to touch particularly on the ,~ l11!k busmess. As hon. members are aware. ,1_1~ P/oposed to_form a pool of producers of mJ!K tor the Bnsban0 market. The idea is ::hat th<' Commissioner of Public Health :,,hould _become a supplier of milk. There :s nothmg whatm·er to be said in favour of lhe _B,·isbanl' milk supply at the present time. It. IS not only a qu,estion of getting pure milk from the producer. The milk has to he kept free from adulteration and contami­nation after it is rcceiyed at the different depots, and I thi':k that the Health Depart­ment _would ?e WISl' to take steps to see that that IS earned out. It is only right that the producN of an artic!P that is not fit for human consumption or is adulterated should be punished, bnt it is far more important that those who sell milk should di;;tribute to the people in the cities a good unadul­terated articl-e.

At 4.10 p.m.,

l\L·. DuNSTAN (ripmpi, ), one of the panel of Te_mporary Qhairmen, relieved the Chair­man m the chan.

Mr. \\'_\RREX: I was struc·k reeentlv Lv the very fine suppl~· of milk in fh·dne,-·. A little while ago I 'lwnt two or three :weeks the1:e inquiring . into ~he. milk supply. It !s no us-; cry1ng "st1nku1g fi~h'' about 'One s own State unless one can show some way of improving conditions and mv objeet is to show a method of doing' so. The reason ~vhy the milk supply is so good in Sydney Js because the great co-operative companv which handles the milk puts a high nlue on a pure article. It will receive nothing ,from any of its suppliers unless it is an .absolutely good article. The milk is pas-

tcurl~C'cl. and i:-; nHH_1c as fit for food as hun1an ingenuity can 1nake it before beiug handed ove1· to the consumer. \Y0 han' a great nu1nber of dairies round BrisbanP. to-day. and the general idea is that people prefer hot milk. I would point out that. although hot milk is fresh, it may neverthe­less be impure, and only requires tin1c to develop the impurities. I would like to seP tlw suppliNs made r0sponsible for the articl" thcv sell. It is all vcrv well to talk about the" cit,, council taking· owr the supply. As a n1atter of fact~ the connf'il are not anxious to do w. Although I am a supplier, I do not car0 whether thev do or do not; in fact. I think I would sooi:wr they did take it oYcr than not, hut it is not going to bo easy. I£ you take the city of \Veiling-ton, which the Assistant :Ylinister mentioned, you will find that the people pay an enormous percentage more now than before the city council took oy,er the supply.

Hon. M. J. KIRWAN: How does the suppl,· in \Ycllington compare in price with the supply in Sydney?

Mr. W ARRE::'\: It is clearer in Welling­ton. In Brisbane the price of milk is fixed bv th<' Commissioner of Prices, and has recently he-en increased, but the producer has reaped no bf'nofit from that system. He is getting only ls. and less a gallon for his milk, and he is living on an absolutely star.-ation wage. I made up the accounts of ono man who is g-rowing his feed for his

· cows. and I found that, if he were to sell that feed in Brisbane at current prices. he would be better off than he is by feeding it to his cows and selling· their milk.

1\fr. Cr.AYTON: That is only for a short period of the year.

1\lr. WARREX: Different conditions <'Xist in my electomtP. The people I refer to feed all the year ronnel.

Mr. Cr.AYTOX: );uthing of the sort. (Govemment laughter.)

l\Ir. W "\RRE::-.J: I want to tell the hon. member for ·wick Bav that thev do feed all the :vear round-he· may not k.now it.

Mr. C'LAYTOK: I thought the hon. gent!P­man said that the people of ~1aryborough fed their cows all thP year round.

l'llr. \Y.\RRE?\: 1\o, the hon. member misunderstood me. These people keep thE'ir cows in the very best of health and supp]_, a very good commodity; still with milk at ls. per gallon tlw~· cannot make anythlllg for thcmsl'lves. Th" onh· time thev malu anything is when the prvice .~0('-< n l)o, ·=' 1:-' .. pl'r gallon. If the City Council tooi< control and paid ls. 4d. or ls. 4~d. p<'r g<~ llon--·­that is only a reasonable price-it would not n1ean any rrwre to the con:;;nmer than ::t t pr0scnt. ·The milk procluccn a-dopt the Yie>Y­point that milk is an absolute food l'ssenhal, and as a food essential it must be a pun' commoditv. TheY >Yant to be absolutC'lY responsible for th0 suppl,- of the commodity from the cow to the consumer. and thP onlv 'vay they can ha.-o that control is through what is really a co-operative' method of con­trol. In connection with the Sydney supply they haYe five what we would call vendors. H0i·e we havl' two or three fairly large Yendors and the rest .are small yendors. lJndcr our system there is no possibility of prop<'rly controlling this easily contaminated

Mr. Warren.]

592 Supply. [ASSE:\IBLY. j Supply.

food from a. health pomt of view and from the pDint of view of di,tribntion. The Dnly way to deal with the matter is for the pro­duCers to come to ~o1no agrcen1cnt with the GovermnPnt or thc' coun,·il. iY e arc pre­pared to aet Pither with the Government or thP council with a Yicw to instituting wme suitable scheme. I am of the opinion that thP council should bl' re,ponsible for the health of the rutopaycrs and should have control of the distribution of milk. The council i'honld 1nake all the arrangc1ncnts with the producers and 'hould have power to see that the verv best commoditv is handed over to the consumers. I do. not rhink it is a proper thing to allow cows producing milk fDr human consumption tD run everywhere' and drink all sorts of dirty water. I believe that we should have proper health.- runs for those cows and they should have ,!bsolutely pure \vater to drink. It is just as important to have pure \Vater for the cows as it is to have pure milk for the baby. I do not think that the health autllorities to-day are paying suflicicnt atten­tion to the health of the herds.

Hon. :\I. J. KIRWA!-:: That is a. matter dealt with by the Department of Agricul­ture.

:Yir. \YARRE::\!: It >houlcl not be. 'The Home Department registers the dairies, but has no control over t.he herds. It is time that undivided control is established. The Brisbane City Council should be responsible for the whole of tho milk supply, including control over the health of the herds and the suitability of the pastures.

Hon. M. J. KIRWAX: I think the hon. gentleman's suggestion would be practical so far as it applies to milk for human con­mmption, but not in connection with every dairy in the State.

:C\Ir. W ARRE"": I am alluding only to the supply of milk for human consumpti?n. Generally speaking. the product supphed to the dairy factories is very good. The percentage of Ji.rst-grado butter proves con­clusively that it must be fairly good. I maintain that. the milk supplied for human consumption is not up to the same health standard as the product supplied to the butter factories. It is not as good, and the standard is not as high. It is a serious charge to make, but there has been too much laxity in the supervision. 'rhere is only one way of effectively dealing \vith this matter, and I have referred to that method JH"evionsly. I hope that tho Government will see that samples of milk are got from both the producers and vendors and that, if anv of these persons offend a- second time, thee· shall not bave the option of a fine, but will bo prenmtecl from continuing in the busine's for the future. (Hear, hear!)

Hox. W. H. BAR:\ES (Wynnum): I was glad to hear 1 he Assistant Home Sccrota;-y say that certain efforts are being made m the dirL•ction of )HCYcnt.ing and. as far as possible, eradicating venereal disease. \Ye have been discussing quite a number of impDrtant matters including the ono that was discussed bv the ·hon. member who has just resumed his seat; but the question of venereal disease in its relation to the com­munity and the health of the State is one of the most vital that has been discussed to-dav. The fact remains that, notwith­sta!lding what has been and is being clone,

[Hr. Warren.

YE'llc·rcal tli::-E'USl' in Australia, if reports an:· con'P('t, is on the increase.

Hon. :YI. J. KIRWAX: That was stated! iu :\Ielbourno the other day.

Hox. VI. H. BARC\ES: l am afraid it is­so. If the puniohmc:It that came with the disease onlv affected the adult, probably ono "·cn1ld not" fPel vcrv sorry for that indivi­·clt.al; but a;, hon: member with whom I di~CH:-\scd the matter thiS afternoon Inen­tioned to me-and I waut to give hhn credit for the report which ho has given me-that it has a con1plete aspect so far as nation building is concerned. (Hear, hear!) He· drew my attention to tho fact that in some places lw has vi,-ited i.here wrro evident ;.;ig·ns that the people were actually declnung: as " result of the cffC'cts of this dread disease. \i\-,.hilst wo arc 1naking every attempt to pr0vcnt. an:-· cliscasc from being introduced into th1s countrv. and nghtly :--o 1\"0 haYe so1nothing in ~Ur Yery 1nidst which is insidious1:-· working to the detri­ment of young life. To bo hampered by poverty is a faidy difficult matter: but when one is hampered by broken health right from the H'ry beginning of life it is a Yerv serious nwnac:o to the con1n1u1nty. I rose· to urge the A-;sistant Homo Secretary to sec that not r..:1h· the cf!'orts which have been alreadv made. are continued, but that increased ,{gilance will be adopted in con­nection with this dread disease. I hope that the Minister will prosecute his efforts. to the fullest extent in order that · evcry­thino· humanlv possible may be done to assist to erad.icato this terrible diseas<>.

:\'lr. BARBER Wunclabcru) : During all the Years I have been " member of this Chamber in·actically all the three points that have been discussed h<>re this afternoon have receJved eon~idPra.blc attention fron1 session to session. That appliPs particuarly to the troubl~somo flv and to thl' mosquito probkm. Opmwns ,,:r_,rc Pxprc~~:d hPrC this aftprnoon, and I do Hot kno'v whctht)r "\Yf' arc to take those as C'XpPrt or othPl'Wi~e: at an:v rate, I do not prop<Jse to cxpr ss anv Pxpert opinion. At the same tjn1c. one 111nst adn1it that flies arc not on1v a nui::;auC'£' in th<.' honl{'. but they are a nH';HICt' to health. ::Ylv friend. the hon. mcm­bPr for Brcn1cr, )1;1lY~ us a detailed ucrount of th<> various characteristics of the fly. I was stnrlvino· some of the movements of the fly onh.-" !art nig-ht. I rect'ntly had the electric light install<>cl in my home at TomYollg. I had to keep l)rogTc,~-; with the tin1cs. especially as wP had advocat<>d the installation of the dcctri~ lig·ht for about twC'nt:-· years. and recentlv our town council installed the electric light. "T thoug-ht that the fly would keel1 rf'-lio·ion:'lY :cnyav fron1 the heat generated b:v a 70-candle po;wr li~·ht. To my surprise .I found that the flips ''alked all over tlw ·clcctnc lio·ht shade and even on the bottom of the b~lb-~-

llon. iY. I-I. BARXES: They came for tho Cl~J,~bratlon.

:\Ir. BARBER: It mav be that. but I ahYays c,'lcbrate in watPr. (Lat;g·hter.) To be serious, the fi~· nlC'lHtcc i:4 a Yf'ty serious one, and .1t has been discuss--cl lwre for the last bvonty :roars.

I atn plea>cd to recol!nise that considerable efforts have lwen made to abolish tho menace. As time goes on. no doubt the application of scientific and chemical methods "·ill overcome·

Supply. [3 SEPTEMBER.] Supply.

the difficulty. As one past middle age, l have often had cause to wonder on this subject, and th<> hon. member for \Vyunum will appreciate this point. Being a good Sunday school boy in my young days, it is a wonder to me why the community ha:ve allowed our parsons and Sundav school teachers to exist. In those eerlv da:vs. ·if a boy put a pin through a. fly, he was told that God would punish h1m and son'li hin1 t1...1 "'.Fiddler's Gr-een." or Hell, or elsewhere. (Laughter.) I am inclined to believe that the fly menace is due not entirely to ·the laxity of Governments, but to this threat that the Deit:v would punish us if we harmed the fly. TI;at gave the fly a great start, and it is now such a menace that we have difficulty in catching up to it. (Renewed laughter.) Probably present-day methods Will show better results than the attempts of children in previous years, when they had the fear of God put into their hearts should they harm the fly.

Another question is that of the eradication of the mosquito. That is a serious nroblem. I do not agree with the hon. member for Fitzroy in this regard. I know that during

the construction of the Panama [4.30 p.m.] Canal, an eminent scientific man,

. Colonel Goethals, attempte·d to oxtermmate the mosquito, and there is no doubt that his succeBs in that direction was simplv marvellous. There mav not be the same "dange1· to·dav of" Yello;v Jack" beino· carried from different countries to Queen; land as there was in my early days at sea, when one was always living in fear of ".Yellow J ark," particularly if you were nsihng an Eastern or a South American port. While the same thing may not applv to Panama to-day, I am satisfied that we have io take every precaution possible through our Health Department to see that we ·do not introduce from other countries the mosquito that carries the yellow fe;-er germ. From an article which I read rf!centlv I find that this mosquito tronb],, aud the introduction of malaria into Great Britain has caused :very great concern to the Health Department there and the Imperial authorities during the last couple of vears. Anyone who know;. the conditions of tlie old land ~t all knows ;-ery well that, practically speaking, there arc no 111osquitoes there. vet quite a number of cases of malaria ·ha:vo developed during the last few vears. When a ship is lying at an Eastern ]JOrt dav after day, particularly when shipping sugai·, such as brov,n sugar frmn Java, the Inosquitoes swarm into the ship's hold, and thev remain in the damp. dark hol.cJ until the ship gets into port, and when the hatches are taken off they swarm out. and in this way have caused a great dc·al of trouble and concern to the Imperial authorities. Any man who ;-isits the ports of North or South America will find mosquitoes. They are found in Van­couver.

Hon. J. G. APPEL: You will find them in Alaska.

Mr. BARBER: Yes, e;-en in Alaska. \Ve are told over and over again that the mos­quito must have fresh water to breed in. I visit a certain farming district here occa­sionally, and I find that, although there are no waterholes or gullies in the district, dur­ing the laBt two summers the mosquitoes ha vo be;m there in millions, although up to a few years ago the mosquito was almost

1924-2 p

unknown in that district. I used to camp on the veranda, but I cannot do that now with­out a niOsqui to net. That is one of the points in our Ino~quito can1paign that puzzles n1e. You find them right up in the hills ;vhere there are no waterho]e,. \Ye are told bv the experts that the mosquitoes ;;-ill not radiate from water more than about 300 yards, yet m some c-ases ,-ou find them from half a mile to three-quarters Qf a mile away and in 1niiJions. '

The hon. member for Enog-gera brought forward the question of something more­being do:•e by the State in connection with the venereal menace. If anvone takes the· trouble to look throtwh " Hai:tsard " he will find that rig·ht awav back in 1903 dnd 1904 a. Yery intereSting di"scu ~si on took place here, yet the ho~L n1en1bcr for Enoggcra appa­rently consiClers that this venerertl Disease trouble is a ;-er;- recent happening. The hon. mcmc1c:·. and I am sure all the medical t~xpcrt,., >.vill agree- in this. There are tons of literuttlre whieh .has been procurable DU this 111attf>t'. not only -~yithin the last few­years, but for many :rears previously, and I would ask the hon. member to peruse that liruaturc ii he has not done so. As I said when speaking- on this subject ten and fifteen yc·:us a g·o. the grca t difficulty in handling tl11s disease arises b('ca nso it is a dirtv one H_nd thcrt> are very few public men and poli: tlc1ans >vho \\ill derrl >vi rh the matter, although I have rrlways stated my opinion and told ;vhat I han• seen about it. My remark;; at different times on this subject Will be found recorded in " Hansard." I pointed out some eight years ago that the g-reat c!ifficultv ill connection with this matter was that en;Il the religious bodies of the S1 ate refuse to handle it. Thev seem to use the same argument as they did. about killing rh() fl~-- They say that it is ·dirty, and that n IS a punishment oi God on the individual for his >in. I argue that tuberculosis and the various epiden1ics and n1cnaces to humanit'' which >H' suffer from are just as much the effect of human stupidity and 1gnoranee as vL"nerPal di:3ease. :J..lan has been stco.dil~ ~~Inerging· fron1 his ignorance, and, as Janws Ruesell Lowcll said, he is always gradually mm-ing upward. I would like to urge hon. nl€-'Hlber:' to 1nake themselves more conversant with the world's literature and scientific report,;; on this question. A. 1nere fi:ve minutes' discussion on this subject in Parliament \\-hile this particular Estimate is ~toing through yf'ar after year is Inore or less futi!P. The State should handle this thing in the wav that it should be handled. It has been kent in the dark too long. The hon. 1Hen1ber~ for Euog·gera sayB th8.t something ~honld be donP. What does he suggest? Does the hou. n1e1nbl~r desire to go hack to the old condition of things when we had the Contagion~ Diseases Act. which was a low cor:ternntible insult to> m·ery respectable woman ir. the con,mtmin-. and which enabled a policeman to arrest a' woman in the street if they suspected her? There are men who have never tra,-elled beyond the apron· strings of their mothers who argue in favour of the Contagious Diseases Act, because they do not know any hettcr. If hon. members will read the three interim reports and the final report of the Royal Commission which was appointed in ::\ew South Wales some years ago, and which is to be found in our Parliamentary Library, they will ha:ve their eyes opened. I want tD emphasise this

Mr. Barber.]

Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

point: If hon. n1en1bers think that by going back to the old methGd and reinstituting· the ConL:g"1ous Di~ea~es Act, they will solve the eifficuli0·, they are totally blind, morally, physi~ally. and indiYidually in regard to the matter. The La.bour part~'l was practically the first party in Australia who took the matter up seriously and wiper! out the Con­tagious Dis~dscs Act, and I believe th,,t it has been for the good of tho community.

If any body wants to find scientific or medical evidence in faYour of the abolition o£ the contagious diseases provisions of the Health Act, let him turn up " Hansard " and read the debates in another place, where Dr. Espie Dads appear.ed at the bar-one of the most eminent authorities on this question of that time. Hon. members will also find the speech of the Hon. Dr. Taylor, who pointed out the utter futility of what was known as the C.D. Act. If they will read the report to which I refer, which is prob­ably to be found in the library, they will find that with one exception every authority, every medical superintendent of a prison or asylum or hospital or other public instit~­tion in ='Jew South Wales, where the mvesti­gation was carried on for perhaps two to two and a-half years under the chairmanship of Dr. Arthur, was absolutely opposed to similar provisions. They can also take up the volume-which I presume is also in the librarv-I have one at home-which contains the re.port of the Royal Commission presided over by Lord Esher, which made investiga­tions in England during about three years. The results are appalling. As was pointed out f]Uite recently by Sir J ames Barrett in Victoria, the number of poor dying and blind children and the number of deaths, the thousand and one hard­c~hips and the suffering which follow in the train of this dread disease a.re stupPndous. In my opinion, probably more has been done in Queensland than in any other State, and I am sure that our health officers are quite convinced of the necessity of abolishing it. I know very well by obser­vation and by reading reports such as those of the surgeon-general of the German army and of Dr. Fournier, who with his son spent years in studying this matter in France, ar:d bv studving the report of the conference m Italy, and other documents, that there is suHicicnt evidence to convince any hon. mem­ber who wishes to go into this matter seri­ous!? that we dirl right. But I said years ago, and I emphasise it now, that most politicians, most members of churches .and church councils, treat this matter too gin­gerly. At one time I was the only one. in this House who was game to stand up agamst what was known as 'the C.D. Act, and I did so in the old days as a r<?qult of my reading and my obserYa tions in other parts of the world. All our mothers and wives and daughters, all the respectable classes in the community, arc far safer now than when that Act was in operation-! mean safer so far as liability to arrest by the police 1s concerned.

Hon. J. G. APPEL: We have got something to our credit then? We abolished it.

Mr. BARBER: vVe have, and I say that in my opinion Queensland stands far ahead of the other States in its efforts to deal with this matter. I want to emphasise that it has got to be dragged out into publ~c life and not treated like a sore toe. It IS

[.Mr. Barber.

somci.hing that you would have to treat roughly. I know that some hon. members opposite h>we had a flying trip through Europe and hCLvo come back to this country and talk on those matters as though they were experts on everything. They havP a lot to learn about this disease. I would adYise the hon. momber for Enoggera who, I presume, is interested in this matter, to take up all the literature in the library and devote iho whole of the next recess to study­ing that literature.

Mr. KERR: I have read back over a period of four years.

Mr. BARBER: I have been reading on the matter covering a period o£ forty years.

Mr. KERR: The hon. gentleman is out of date.

Mr. BARBER : I was in the advance guard. (Laughter.) The findings of the dif-Ierent romn1issions haYe, to a very large extent, been followed by the Health Depart­ments in Australia, and as a result of the cbservations and inquiries held in other parts of the world, considerable benefit has resulted to the other States and to Queens­land. I do impress upon hon. members that, if we expect to get an,y results out of the legislation affecting this menace, we must not act too gingerly in handling it. I know that some persons read "Hansard," and I remen1ber son1e years ago, 'vhen "\Ve vvero going into this matter very seriously here, I meb a late constituent of mine in the street in Bundaberg and she asked me a question. She said, sho had been reading " Hansard," and she would like to ask me a question. I requested her to proceed. She said, " \Vhen you were discussing a certain serious question in Parliament you said that for several years you knew certain things. How did VOLl know?" (Laughter.) I had to find an an~wer to that question, and thR answer was a truthful one. I pointed oui· they were some of tho things that a young lad who goes to sea hears discussed and that he obtains literatme on those sub­jects in different parts of the world. I am very pleased to say that the lady was not hurt with the reply. I appreciate the efforts that ha,e been made by the Commissioner of Public Health to deal with the matter. If anything more can be done by Parliament -and mor·e power should be given to the Commissioner-then action should be taken immediately.

Mr. BRUCE (Kennedy): There seems to be a tendency on the part of hon. members to treat this matter with some levity. Venereal disease is one of the worst menaces to our social life. Some hon. members per­haps are of the opinion that, because of the manner in which the disease is being treated, it is not possible for them, under the circumstances. to acf]uire the venereal complaint, but the purest of our men and the purest of our women may a<:quire the nmereal complaint without any fault of their own. Some people are under the belief that it is acqi[ired merely by sexual inter­course with unclean persons. That is not so. I can quite under,tand the plea by the hon. member for Burke to the Home Secre­tary to control all those aboriginals who are not alrea.dy in a mission station. I have seen aboriginals camped on waterholes that were being used for the water supply of white families. Children have been play-

Supply. [3 SEPTEMBER.] Supply. 5)5

ino- round those waterholes and aboriginals in~ the last stag·e of the venen!al complaint haYc been camped on those waterholes.

At 4.50 p.m .. The C'HAJR)!AX resumed tho chair. :c\lr. BRCCE : Ther( is not the slightest

doubt that thr<mghout the North and \Ves~ of Qn,'cn:"land the ra,·agc:; Df this compla1nL can be seen b·: those vvho know its symptoms. l t is a qu'"ti~m th<Jt hits right at the root o1 our social life. and every effort on the part of the Go-cen;mcnt to combat it should be Pltrol.uagcd. Th0 n1axinn1n1 {'ffort should be <'XCrcisC'Cl bv the GoYcrnment. \\' c hear much talk about. efficienc~-. It is known that a majorit,- of the men in the naY: are suffc•ring from v-enereal complamts, and they were also con1n1on .during the ]ast great \Yar an1ongst the ~olcliers. I sugg('st to th~ liomc S·ecrc!a~·.Y that th<· question of physical culture mig'l.t well be gone into as one of th_e greatest pre­\·cntiv-es of this particular drs ase. If the v-oun" men of the State could be persuaded te> u,-0..., in for a-thletics and a proper course. of physical cul~Lll'f, t!1ey would be 12repanng their ~h~dics t0 r.c s1st these complaints: and would be less likely to come in contact with those who would contaminate them. The question of diet is also an important considera­tion in the cure of this disease. Th€ method of h·eatmcnt bv our recognised medical men, perhaps, is not ·all that is to be desired. There hav-o been people vYho have shown tremen­dous results hv dieting. It is the business of those• in charge of the Department of Public Health io make inquiries into eYery form of trc atment, so that ever~·thing possible can be done to eradicate venereal complaints from our midst. There is not the slightest doubt that sane methods of prevention would sav-e thousands of pounds "hich the community arc spending to-day in an endeavour to find a cure, and the result would Improv-e the whole of the people of the State both mentally and physically. \Ye know quite well that it is the vonno- men and women who lack knowledge. and ;,ho know nothing about these things, 1vho are first contaminated and strike right at the taproot of the family. \Ye should, there­foP, create a dc,iro on the part of the whole of the people to eradicate the diseas". I trust that this question will be taken S<'riously, and that no effort \vill be spared to eradicate, stamp out, and preY •nt the spread of this disease.

Qu( ,tion put and passed.

HOSPITALS. Hox. M. J. KIR\'IAX (Brisbane): I beg

to move-" That £207,310 be granted for

' Hospitals.' '' Hon. members vvill see that there is a reduc­tion in this v-ote as compared with last yea1· Df £37,960. This is due to the nevv system uf hospital districh _which the Gov-ernm~nt are seekino- to carrv mto effect, under which it is hoped that each particular district will be responsible for the upkeep and maintenance of its own hospital.

I know the matter has aroused some dis­cuesion, but I would ask hon. members to have patience in order that the system may have " thorongh trial. Those hon. members who have gone into the question will, I think, recognise this essential fact. Although there may be a difference of opinion regarding the method of financing hospitals, there is a

uniform acceptance of the principle of district hMpitak Som0 hon. members may think that it i' not fair to expect local authorities to. ad vaucc 40 per cent. of the upkeep ot hospitals while ihe GoYernment contribute the remaining- 60 per cent. Some hon. mem­bers mav think wme other metho<.l of finance should be adopted. Personall0•• I am in­clinerl to boliev-e that it is the [y.,t method, and I think. if it is given a fair i rial, it will be gc•nerally accepted throughout Queensland.

Th • HOME SECRETARY (Hon. J. Stopford, Jiount Jiorgan): At an earlier 'tage of the debate on these Estimates the hon. member for \Vynnum brought up a question referring to the " Golden Casket," on which he \\ af-: S·ecking inforn1ation, and I pron1ise-d that I would make inquiries. The hon. gentleman stated that a certain incident had occurred resulting in the dismissal of some of the "Golden Casket" staff. From ihe information receiv-ed by the hon. gentle­man he inferred that something had gone wrong and had led to these dismissals. I stated that I would bring the matter up on this vote. I do not wish to imply that dis­honesty has taken place. Since the n:att-er was brought before me I haYe internewed the members of the " Golden Casket " Committee. and they acknowledge that two memb<'rs of the staff have been dismissed. 'rhPv ;.tate that errors occurred-not in tho dravving of the "Casket "-everything in connection with the drawing of the " Casket " was quite in order--

Mr. RoBERTS: That is what he said.

The HOME s-ECRETARY: And the news­papers had published correct results of the drawing. It was discovered that the true rcacon of the dismissal was carelessness.. It mav have been through lack of checkmg. :Mistakes were made in copying certain prizes from the official sheet of the drawing to the nublishcd results. This was discov-ered early, and could not possibly continue. The news­papers immediately published the correct result~--

Mr. RoBERTS: That would hardly be suffi­cient cause for the dismissal of the two men.

:Yir. KELSO : Did thece men take advantage of that mistake to their own advantage?

The HOi\1E SECRETARY: Oh, no. ]'\ aturalh· the committee ma,de the fullest inw,tigations, and, while they could find nothing to indicate dishonesty on the part of the employees, they still considered that such carelessness should not be allowed to continue; consequently those employees were di>·missed. [5 p.m.]

:!\Ir. FARRELL: That was pretty sevBre on them, was it not?

Mr. RoBERTS: That is a very severe penalty to inflict on a man for making a mistake.

The HOME SECRETARY: The com­mittee had not sufficient evidence to ~how that there was dishonesty, but thBy dismissed the officials. They have ,a system now whereby they say that such an occurrence cannot happen again.

In introducing this vote the Assistant Home Secretary made the statement that the decreased vote was due to the passing of the Hospitals Act. The reduction is really due to the fact that previous to this year the

Hon. J. Stopford.]

596 Supply. ~-\.SSEMBL Y.J Supply.

upkeep of the Brisbane Hospital wae a. charge on the whole of the State of Queens­land.

Mr. ROBERTS : It is a good thing that that is altered.

The HOME SECRETARY: Under the present system the metropolitan people will be compelled to shoulder a portion of the cost of looking after the sick in this district. Another contributing factor to the lowering of the vote is that under the Hospitals Act hospital officials .are compelled to give an estimate of their expenditure for the year, before the year starts, based upon the expen­ditu,re of the previous year and on their requirements for the coming year. This gives the Home Office an opportunity of checking extraYagance, and, while it does not in any way limit the efficiencv of the services ren­de;ed, it keeps the vote within reasonable bounds of what should be required. Every item of expenditure is anticipated and sub­mitted for approyal, and the result is that we are asking for a lesser sum than was previously necessary to carry on this impor­tant service. The Brisbane Hospital last year cost somewhere in the vicinity of £30,000 more than the State will be asked to provide this year.

Mr. ROBERTS' (PJast Toowoomba): The hon. member for \Vynnum was very anxious to get a statement from the Home Secretary with regard to the dismissal of two officials connected with the "Golden Casket." He sat here for a couple of hours waiting to hear the statement of the Home Secretary, but then he was forced to leave. The state­ment furnished by the hon. member for \Vynnum does not altogethm' agree with the 'tatement of the Minister. If the statement made b:v the Minister is correct, then I take this opportunity of saying that the persons re,ponsible dealt somewhat harshly with those two clerks, if they merely made a mistake.

The HOME SECRETARY: I said there was no evidence of dishonesty.

Mr. ROBERTS: If it was that there was merely a mistake in the transmission of figures from the sheet of foolscap to the official record, then it "·as harsh treatment lo mete out to thos·e two men, to deprive them of the means of earning their liveli­hood. The information given to the hon. member for \Yynnum was this: Because of the published list, persons possessed of cer­tain tickets madE' application for the prize money, and were told that they were not entitled to any, and it was on production of the official list, when an inquiry was being mad<', that this statement was made. That appears lo me to be something different to what the Home Secretary has just said. If the men were dismissed for making a clerical E'rror, then it is not right.

The H01IE SECRETARY : I did not say that. :Mr. ROBERTS : Is there any truth in the

Etatement that the persons purchasing the tickets made application for the prize money as revealed in the published numbers, and they were told that there was no money coming to them, as the numbers were not cm·rect?

The HOME SECRETARY: That is correct. If you will allow me, I will just explain.

Mr. ROBERTS: Thank you. The HOME SECRETARY (Hon. .J.

Stopford, Jfount Morgan): That is how the error was discovered. A person went

[Hon. J. Stopfat·d.

to the " Casket" office and stated that his· ticket had drawn a certain prize. He wa& told that his was not a winning number; but later on it was found that the holder of that ticket was entitled to a prize. The committee then investigated the matter and discovered that there had been an error in checking the numbers-not in the drawing, but in conveying the numbers from the official list which was made when the draw­ing took place to the published result of the drawing. There was not sufficient evi·denee available to level any charge of dishonesty against the officers. The Committee would have been unwise to take any other course than to prosecate officers who are found to be guilty of dishonesty, and they assured me that, if any attempt at dishonesty is de­tected, the offender will be prosecuted but they cannot continue to employ men' who are guilty of such carelessness.

Mr. ROBERTS (Jiiast 1'oo1coomba): I want to say, in the absence of the hon. member for Wynnum, that, if the statement made bv the Home Secretary is correct, these t'vo individuals have been harshly dealt with.

The HOME SECRETARY: l'\ot so far as the working of the " Golden Casket" is con· r·erned. They were sacked for carelessness, let me tell you.

Mr. ROBERTS: Errors similar to those mentioned by the Home Secretary .frequently f'ccur in connection with business. It was just a mistake in a figure apparently. where there are hundreds of figures involved. I do not know what the percentage is in this case.

Hon. M. J. KIRWAN: There are 813 prizes. Mr. ROBERTS: If there are 813 sets of

figures to be copied, one error made in them would not, in my opinion,· justify the action that has been taken. I do not want J o bolster up th('se persons; I am onlv put­ting this forward in the absence of the hon. member for Wynnum, who made the state­ment. I cannot imagine that, under the· circumstances, there is not something behind. If there is no other complaint against these two men, I am of opinion that the Govern­went have dealt very harshly with them.

I am very pleased to hear the sta toment made by the Home Secretary in rdcrence to the £50,000 odd that was provided last year­fa'' the Brisbane Hospital. \\'hat I want to know is from what source the amount of money that is being provided for hospitals under the Hospitals Act is to be derind? Am I right i11 assuming that it is intended m the item of £184,100 which is set down in this vok? Last yf'ar there was £174.100 pro­vided. Do I understand that that is the amount from which the contributions undc1· the Hospitals Act are paid?

The HO:VIE SECRETARY : Yes.

Mr. ROBERTS: If that is so, we can see that the Government, by the passage of the Hospitals Act, have made a very good deal so far as the reduction of expenditure is concerned.

The HG:\IE SECRETARY: 'rhat does not affect the position. The £2 to £1 endowment still goes on.

Mr. ROBERTS: I admit that. but that is only in c<tses where the HosiJitals Act does not apply

The HOME SECRETARY: Under the Hospitals­Act the endowment is £60 t{) £4C.

Supply. [3 SEPTEMBER J Supply. 597

Mr. ROBERTS: I see what you mean. l.'he local authorities provide the £40, and <On the total vote the Government are beino­·reliev<'d to that extent? "'

The HmrE SECRETARY: Yes.

_Mr. RO~E_RTS: \Vhilst I do not agree w1th the JYlimster as to the manner in which the money is raised, I have no doubt that the hospitAl management will be conducted satisfactorily. I think they have already found money to do necessary work, which otherwise they would not have had, so that in some respects it is satisfactory. At the same time. I want it to bo understood that I totally disagree with the method by which this taxation is raised.

Ho~. J. G. APPEL (A.lbert): Whilst I do not propo~e. to deal with the que,tion raised by the Mm1ster, yet I have no hesitation in s~yin_g that the met~od of raising this taxa­tion IS absolutely unjust. because the amount which is \wing contributed by the people is hem.<\' lencd upon ono section of the com­munity, and one section only. The Minister said that ho trusted that every district, by the means now afforded under the Hospitals Act, would be able to have its own hospital; .but we find that that is not the case. A district_ which has made cPrtain provision to mamtam 1ts own ~ospital is not going t9 be allowed to have 1 t.

The Ho)IE SECRETARY: You are referring to Southport?

Hox. J. G. APPEL: Yes. The whole of -their contributions raised bv local taxation, will apparently be' centralised in Brisbane.

The HOME SECRETARY: That is so.

Hox. J. G. APPEL: Southport is the ·<:entre suggested by the whole of that south­east area as the most suitable place for a hospital. They raised the necessary funds and th"y were in a position tD mak~ application to the Government and did make such application, for endown'wnt to <-nable them ~o carry out the scheme; but the matter was. sl';'ply held back ~urther and postponed until t•1e present Hospitals Act became le.w, and now, -after all the money has been col­lected by the people of the district in whi-ch the hospital was to be situated-after thev h_ave J1i:ovided the funds and the ground sit<', whJCh was approved of bv the Govern­ment health officer--they are told that they are not to have a hospital at all. When the Hospitals Bill was before the House I pointed out what the possible effects would he, . and exactly as I prophesied, so it is. It 1s s1mply more centralisation. \Vhy was Southport selected as the centre of the south­east district? Probably some of the mem­bers know that the south-east0rn corner of Queensland is mountainous and hilly, and that numerous small settlements have taken place here and there. As I pointed out wl:en the Bill was being considered, a patient m1ght have to travel 10 or 15 miles and then be carried 4 or 5 miles by carriers to the ambulance. What will happen now? 'These unfortunate people-small settlers who have gone away up into the mountainous parts of the State-will have to be carried by vehicle and then by ambulance to South­port_ railway station or Nerang railway stat10n or some other station and then inste!lcl of being taken to a~ up-to-dat~ hospital m Southport, they will be trans­ported by rail 50 or 60 miles to Brisbane. They will be taken out of the train, put in

the ambulance, and taken 4 or 5 miles from the Melbourne-street station to the BowBn Bridge Hospital. What will be the effect of that upon a patient? The small selectors who go into our mountainous districts and settle there have to suffer all this incon­venience because the Hospital Board say, " We believe in the policy of centralisation, and all the funds that you collect in your South Coast district are not to be spent where they should be spent for the benefit of the sufferers, but your patients are going to be carted away to tho central hospital in Bris­bane." Any medical man will toll you, Mr Pollock, and I dare say you know yourself, what will be the effect of this transhipment on an unfortunate patient who may be in a very serious condition indeed, or who is sufferinl' from some serious accident. \Vhen the legis­lation was introduced I protested on behalf of the small selectors-not alone in my own electorate but of the State of Queensland­who have to contribute to the funds of this great central hospital in the city of Bris­bane, and who are to be deprived of their loral in~titution: and in a certain percentag<~ of cases liYes, which might be sav-ed if the hospital was established in the centre decided upon, will be lost. I protest again on behalf of those men, especially after they contri­buted and did all that was required of them i,o put them in a position to get their own hospital. I know that the Home Secretary is not responsible for the position, and I am not in any way critiQising him in that con­nection, but I want to point out to the Committee and the electors of the State what this policy of cent.ralisation means. The Assistant Minister stated that the effect of the legislation would be that every dis­trict would be able to have a decent hospitaL I want to point out that that is not so.

Hon. M. J. KIRWAN: It will enable them to have the necessary hospital accommoda­tion that is required. That is the point.

Ho~. J. G. APPEL: The point is that I protest against the centralising of ev<'rything in Brisbane.

Hon. M. ,L KlRWAN: \Vhv did thev not build a hospital at Southport" years ago?

HoN. J. G. APPEL: So far as I can see, everythiBg is centralised in Brisbane, and if there was ever a Queen-street Government, it is tho present Guvernment. (Government laughter.) I object to this centralisation, more ·especially when the people showed their willingness to subscribe the necessary funds to han\ a hospital where it would suit t-hem and where it 'H>uld be of some benefit to them. -:-,;o! 'l'h<'ir health is to be disregarded because of the policy of centralisation, which is to build up a great central hospital in the City of Brisbane. Their sufferings are to be put on one side! They have done all that was required of them. I call upon hen. membe;s opposite to protest with me against a policy which is going (o endanger the lives of the small selectors and settlers who go into the country districts of our State and assist so materially in its development. Again I r~pcat, they put 1heir hands in thPir pockets and prm·idecl the necessar,v funds for a hospi­tal. They bought the necessary ground, which was approyecl. They decided in that district where the hos)'ital should be. The whole matter was postponed month after month. month after month. until the Hospitals Act becA.rne law and then they were simply told, " You are rot going to have a hospital. By-

Hon. J. G Appel.]

598 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.]

and-by ~ ou n1a;v haY·e a 1 .•reiYing ,,-ard." ·we wanted a hospital and \Ye wanted it for the reasons I hayc giYen

::\Ir. HARTLEY: \Yhy can't you get one now? HoN. J. G. APPEL: Because the Hospital

Boar-d say they yvill not giye us one. The Jnonf'v \Yhirh is rai\d~·,d from a s1nall section of the communit~· is to be expended in Bri,. banc. That is what I protest ag·ainst. The rc,idents of Southnort and district haye done everything on thei'r part that was neces•ary.

::Ylr. F. A. CoOPER: \Vhere were your patients prcYiously treated?

HoN. J. G. APPEL: Thev wcr<• treated in pri,·ate hospitals at Southport, or were taken to the General Hospital in Brisbane

Mr. F. A. CooPER: TheY will still ha Ye to be dragged over those rough roads.

HoN. J. G. APPEL: Yes. The mm·ement to proyide fund> for the erection of a ho-s· pital at Southport was brought about because fo n1any persons paseed a\Vay in <'Cn <equenco of the delay and shaking about that they receiyed in being transported to the railwaY and then to the General Has­pit tl. SmlH:tin1es a delay of seven, eight, and nine houre took place before a patient recciYed dfectiYe treatment. The sick are to continue to bo penalised under the new B}:'tetn.

::\Ir. H.\RTLEY: \Vhy <-annot Southport be -rlH·larC'd an are:a for a hospital?

HoN . .J. G. \PPEL': B0cauee Southport i, included in the South Coa-t hospital dis· triet.

The IImm SECRETARY: The first application r.hat the South Coast Hospital Board recciYec: for the erection of a hospital at Southport arrived to-day.

HoC\:. J. G. APPEL: _\n application was lodged in the Homo Office two ~ears ago for the necessary endowment to proceed with the Prection of the hospital. It is no good the hon. gentleman trying to side-track it. The hon. gentleman krom; that officero; of the Home Department haYo said that it 'vas (nring to thP application for the erection of a hospital at Southport that the Hospitals Bill \Yas introduced into this House last .se~sion.

Tlw HmrE SECRE'L\RY: I have not the s1if',1tte~;t doubt Lut that sufficient facilities "·ill be prm·ided to meet the requirements of 0 our district.

Hox. J. G. APPEL: This JJolicv of cen­tralisation has been the means -of ii~·es being lost, and will depriYe settlers of tho moun­tRinous conntrv in the south-cast corner of Qncen.sland of· that prompt attention in tho <>ase of ~ick!Ie'6 which thev \\'Ould receive if a hospit'll was e'tabliiihecf at Southport. I would like to know from the Home Secretarv what is to be dc•ne with the fund that ha's been collected at South port?

The HmrE SECRETARY: \Vh•n vou were in tho Home Office' you charged 'the Depart­nwnt of Public ·works with the delay. The Home Depurtmcm has done cYcrything that is llCCC6S<1l',Y.

At 5.25 p.m., The CHAIR:\1A::\ l<:ft the chair, reported

progr(;3S, and asked Ieaye to sit. again. Tho r<'s11mption of the Committee was

made an Order of the Day to-morro>Y.

The House adjourned at 5.30 p.m.

[Hon. J. G . .Appel.

Questions.