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Interview with Rosita Doris Taylor

June 10, 1993 Transcript of an Interview about Life in the Jim Crow South Charlotte (N.C.) Interviewer: Karen Ferguson ID: btvnc02059 Interview Number: 286

SUGGESTED CITATION

Interview with Rosita Doris Taylor (btvnc02059), interviewed by Karen Ferguson, Charlotte (N.C.), June 10, 1993, Behind the Veil: Documenting African-American Life in the Jim Crow South Digital Collection, John Hope Franklin Research Center, Duke University Libraries. Behind the Veil: Documenting African-American Life in the Jim Crow South An oral history project to record and preserve the living memory of African American life during the age of legal segregation in the American South, from the 1890s to the 1950s. ORIGINAL PROJECT Center for Documentary Studies at Duke University (1993-1995)  

COLLECTION LOCATION & RESEARCH ASSISTANCE John Hope Franklin Research Center for African and African American History and Culture

at the David M. Rubenstein Rare Book & Manuscript Library

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Interview with Rosita Taylor Charlotte, NC June 10, 1993 Interviewed by Karen Ferguson Unedited Transcript by Cathy Mann

Rosita Taylor

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Ferguson: Maybe you could tell me where you were born and where

you grew up first of all.

Taylor: Okay, I was born in Charlotte, North Carolina and I

grew up in Charlotte.

Ferguson: What neighborhood did you live in?

Taylor: I lived in the First Ward neighborhood my entire

childhood until the closure, even though I was away in

college but into the closure which was 1964 in First

Ward as we know it.

Ferguson: What do you mean by the closure?

Taylor: The urban renewal came into reconstruction. They

brought in the project which is now Earl Village.

Ferguson: Who did you grow up with?

Taylor: Well, I grew up with my mother. We had a great aunt,

my great grandmother and my dad and my sisters. I had

two sisters.

Rosita Taylor

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Ferguson: Was there anyone outside of your family who lived with

you at any time when you were growing up?

Taylor: From time to time we had cousins, first cousins, on my

mother's side that came to live with us, you know,

periodically. We also had, because my mother is a

social worker, retired, we did have some people, we

had a young lady who came to stay with us at one time

because there was a need for her to have a place to

stay. She was the only person that I can remember at

this time who was not a member of the family who lived

with us.

Ferguson: What do you remember about your grandparents? You

said that you lived with your great grandmother?

Taylor: Yes.

Ferguson: What do you remember about her?

Taylor: Well, I remember that she was first of all a very

compassionate person, very caring, very firm. A

person who was spiritual because she always taught us

first to believe in God and that would be what

Rosita Taylor

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everything that we were to be evolved from would be a

spiritual framework. She was a very honest and open

person, you know, very straightforward. You didn't

have to guess what she meant or said. She was one who

always sat with you, with me I know, and conversed you

know about some of the things, her experience in the

past. And also she taught you how to respect other

people and how she wanted you to behave as a teenager

and as a child and really, you know. Also, she also

taught me how to cook. Eventually, I think, I can't

remember at the age she was but she became blind and

we have sort of determined now that it came about as a

result of glaucoma. And so what I would do is she

would tell me what to prepare for dinner. So she

taught me how to do a little cooking. Very well liked

person in the community also.

Ferguson: So what did she tell you about her childhood? What

kind of stories would she tell you?

Taylor: She told me stories about first of all, you know, how

her parents were in rearing her, her mother and her

dad and again the same kinds of principals that she

tried to impart with me that they upheld those with

Rosita Taylor

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her when she was growing up. And I remember one thing

that sort of stuck in my mind, I didn't really fully

understand it, I don't know what age I was, it had to

be a very early age because I remember her telling me

something about slavery and she said that she had gone

to see Thomas Jefferson and she was in awe of the man

of his statue to be so open in saying that he wanted

to keep the slaves in their places, he didn't want

blacks to move any place, you know. And that sort of

stuck with her and sort of, it stayed with me for

awhile because I couldn't understand but now I do.

But in spite of that, she never taught us to hate

anybody, you know. She taught us to remember that the

person who was in control of our lives was God and we

determine our destination through Him, you know.

Also, some of the things that they did as her mother

was a slave and I remember her telling me about her

mother being a slave and how they were, people sold,

and how they had to go and work in fields and things

like that. And I don't recall any of the, at this

moment, some of the things they did in terms of how

they entertained themselves. I know she liked to sing

so I assume that that was one of the things they did,

you know, at family gatherings.

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Ferguson: Now was this your father's?

Taylor: That was my mother's grandmother.

Ferguson: And where did she grow up?

Taylor: She grew up in, what was the name of this little town,

in Catawba County which is not too far from here. I'm

trying to think of the name of the city. I know it

but it's not surfacing at the moment.

Ferguson: That's alright. You said that she was well liked in

the community. What role did she play in the

community?

Taylor: Well, seemingly she was a counselor I mean as we use

our terminology now because people came to her for

guidance, you know, or sort of bringing their problems

and their joys and sharing with her and getting her

opinion you know about things. Because I think they

saw the strength in her, they saw the forthrightness

of just her as a person and how strong she was so I

think that's what I mean.

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Ferguson: Did you know any of your other grandparents or know of

them?

Taylor: Yes, I knew my mother's mother, my mother's father, my

dad's mother and his father.

Ferguson: Do you remember anything in particular about them?

Did they have...?

Taylor: Yes my mother's mother was a person who, she lived in

a different city, she lived in Atlantic City and

Philadelphia so we always had a schedule and she came

to visit us almost every summer when she lived in

Philadelphia and then we went to Atlantic City sort of

alternating summers. So we saw her quite frequently.

My mother's father, we didn't see him until later on.

We often talked about him in the family, his sisters

did, but I think I only saw him once until 1971. But

we always talked about him as if he was with us. My

dad's mother and father, we saw them every week

because they were here in Charlotte. My mother's

mother, again, was a very strong person, a person who

was, she was a person who always taught you to do your

Rosita Taylor

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best and be the best and look the best, you know, that

kind of person. Again, very forthright in, you know,

her conversation with you or whatever she had to share

with you. She, I'm trying to think about what, I

don't remember right now, she did tell me about her

marriage to my grandfather, you know. She talked a

little bit about that. That was when I was a little

older. And my grandfather, after I became to know

him, he was very dedicated, a very educated person. I

can't remember now how far he went to school. I don't

think he went to college but the information, he was a

person who did a lot of research on his own so he knew

a lot about history in the sense of what had happened

to us as a people, what happened to his family, what

happened in the country, you know. He knew that and

so he shared that with us. A very liked person in his

community because he was a very strong person also in

the place where he lived. My dad's mother was a very

warm, gentle, kind person. She would always come and

stay with us, you know, like she'd come on weekends

and she would baby sit a lot with us, you know. My

dad's father, he was another strong, kind guy, you

know. I don't know too much about them sharing a lot

of their past with me, you know, because once I came

Rosita Taylor

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to understand I was away, you know. But we were

always around them.

Ferguson: Your mother said that her father became a Muslim.

Taylor: Yes.

Ferguson: Was he a Muslim when you met him?

Taylor: Right, un-huh.

Ferguson: Do you remember anything about that? Do you when he

converted?

Taylor: Let's see if I remember. I don't remember the year

but it had to be quite some years. He was also, prior

to that he was in the organization with Garvey and he

was Catholic prior to all of this.

Ferguson: Was there any conflict in the family about him being a

Muslim?

Taylor: Yes, this was a conflict because one consequence, I

don't whether you are familiar with the Muslims and

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their doctrines, you are not supposed to associate

with anybody other than a Muslim. So we never could

understand that because, you know, we just couldn't

understand how somebody could just turn away from

someone who was related to them, irrespective of who

made that decree. And so that was sort of a thing

that we had to come to grips with. I guess the thing

that I personally couldn't accept at the time when my

grandfather came back to stay with us, you know, he

became ill at the time and my mom was also ill. I

just felt to me that it was unfair for us to have had

to take the burden on with him. A lot of it was going

to have to be on me because I was the oldest person

and I came back home to take care of my mom. But I

guess those were the only conflicts but I had to work

that out with myself and look at the reasons and

forget about, you know, what he had done and didn't

do. Not so easy sometimes.

Ferguson: Do you remember their being Muslims in the south

before the 1960's, black Muslims?

Taylor: Yes because see when I was in, before the 1960's, when

I was in graduate school, let's see, I'm trying to

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think what year, there were because I had some friends

who had friends who were Muslims.

Ferguson: In the 1950's?

Taylor: Yeah, in the 1950's in Atlanta. And there were a few

in Missouri. I lived there also. They were not as,

you know, as on the scene as we see them now.

Ferguson: We don't really know very little about them especially

in the south. Can you tell me a little bit about the

First Ward neighborhood? Was it a close knit

neighborhood?

Taylor: Yes, it was a very close knit neighborhood. It was

basically the socio-economic status of it primarily

was middle class blacks who lived in that

neighborhood. In spite of those who were not, we

didn't see anybody as different. We were very close.

Everybody knew one another. Everybody shared and

protected and cared and truly loved one another in

that neighborhood. We were very open with each other

in terms of our grief and our sorrows and our joys.

Of course, we all, you know, we had to go to a lot of

Rosita Taylor

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places the same you know. For an example, when we

went to eat everybody ate at the same place because of

segregation at the time. One thing that I felt and

feel proud about it now is that we didn't let barriers

hinder us in what we had to do and who we were.

That's the thing that I feel good about the

neighborhood, yeah. Everybody had a certain kind of

pride in the community in terms of not only it's

physical appearance but also the behavior of the

people in the community. Say for an example, if

somebody passed your home and they happened to be

intoxicated, you know, they would say oh, I'm sorry,

excuse me, you know, and they would sort of straighten

up, you know. So it let you know that hey, I remember

that this is not the best kind of behavior to

demonstrate, you know. From all I remember because I

went through, I mean there were places in that

community, I just went everywhere. Being a member of

our church we visited families, you know, so I was in

almost the streets. The neighborhood was very clean.

Even if people lived in houses that, you know, they

might have been maybe a two-bedroom house but

everything was clean. I mean they might not have had

grass in some areas but it was clean. You know, you

Rosita Taylor

13

didn't see any litter or anything like that. Crime

was really, I don't even remember, I'm trying to

think, I don't remember seeing a police being called

into the neighborhood. If so it might have been very,

very infrequently. Now we had black policemen who

lived in our neighborhood, in our community. But

crime was really zilch.

Ferguson: Who upheld these standards? Were there some watchdogs

in this community or self-appointed people who watched

the neighborhood?

Taylor: No, everybody took their own personal responsibility.

Because see we went to the same schools, we were

taught and it was just a known thing that this is how

you taught everybody, it was just a pass on.

Everybody, you know, so it wasn't anybody saying, you

know, I am the watchdog of the community. Everybody

felt their own personal responsibility to do the right

thing.

Ferguson: Do you remember their being - who were the important

people in your neighborhood? Do you remember any

neighbors or even people in your own family who were

Rosita Taylor

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sort of neighborhood leaders or unofficial leaders who

watched out for people in the neighborhood?

Taylor: Okay, everybody did. I'll give you an example. Like

when I went to school even, let's take elementary

school, I lived about maybe six or seven blocks from

the school. So from the time I left my home until the

time I reached school everybody along the way, you

know, if someone saw you whatever, they were in charge

of you, you know. And your family accepted that, they

appreciated it. They thanked you if they saw anything

good or bad, you know. In terms of, you know, maybe,

what should I say, one person being a little more

outstanding in terms of what they were doing, at the

time we had people who did things like, you know, we

had professionals folks, folks who were doctors and

teachers and stuff but they still didn't try to be the

person in the community to say look, I am the

spokesperson.

Ferguson: Were there any bad areas of town that you weren't

supposed to go to?

Taylor: No. I mean there were areas where you went to, you

Rosita Taylor

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knew what to do when you were there. But there were

no areas where you say well, don't ever go there. You

know what I'm saying? If you went there, I'm trying

to think of one area below, I don't recall it because

I'm still thinking of golly, all the places we went

to, everywhere. (Laughter)

Ferguson: What do you remember about the house in which you

lived and some of the ones around you? Do you

remember the house you grew up in?

Taylor: Un-huh.

Ferguson: Can you describe it please?

Taylor: It was a simple house in terms of it's structure. We

had three bedrooms, a living room, a dining room, a

kitchen, a family room, a bathroom. Okay, it was one

level. You know, we had a bedroom for - before my

sisters came I had my own bedroom. And then when they

came along I was away in school so they had my

bedroom. We had all of the modern equipment. When

the TV came out we had TV. We had telephone. When

everything came out we always had it, okay. We always

Rosita Taylor

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had it. We had a back yard. We had a car. We had a

fireplace too. I remember we had a fireplace in our

living room. But we didn't use that, seemingly when I

was small we used that for awhile but then we had -

what did we have - then they were having a special

kind of stove. I'm trying to think, it wasn't, it

must have been, I don't remember an oil stove though.

No, it was gas - it might not have been gas either.

It might have been and oil stove. But I remember it

was a big kind of thing that we had. It was a simple

modest house. I remember we kept it as neat as

possible. I was the person, that was my

responsibility. We sort of worked together. Anything

that had to be done in the home, like we painted our

own house outside, inside, my mom, my aunt. We always

did everything in our house. We never hired somebody

out to do it. We always said hey, it's a challenge

and something we want to do. Other houses in our

neighborhood basically were on the same order. We had

an apartment, I think it was like a four family

apartment in our neighborhood. We had about I think

maybe one or two of those. Most of the houses were

similar to ours.

Rosita Taylor

17

Ferguson: Did your family own their own home?

Taylor: Yes.

Ferguson: Do you have any particular memories about childhood,

times when you were particularly happy or sad?

Taylor: Always happy. Yeah, I was always happy. That's what

I can say. I had a good time being a kid. First of

all I had, I mean I really had love in my family. My

great aunt who we lived with, she was the kind of

person she read, I don't know whether my mother told

you but she worked for ( ) and so she would be home

on Thursday and so she would read to me like all those

fairy tales, Grimes, had that, I mean Grimes had his

fairy tales. All of the riddles, she would go over

those things with me. The Bible, she would tell me

the stories and constantly reading the Bible and

teaching prayer and this kind of thing. When I grew

up I took vocal lessons. I took piano lessons. I

also took dance lessons. I remember as a child, we

played, we used to - I tell my sisters and they sort

of laugh you know because what we did as children in

the neighborhood in the mornings we'd get up, we'd

Rosita Taylor

18

have our breakfast and everything and then there was a

time we would come out and we played the games like

baseball, you know, and we played all of what we

called the strenuous games in the morning when it was

nice and cool. Then we'd go in, take a rest, do

whatever chores we had to do then and finish with

dinner and then we'd come back and we'd take a bath

and we'd put on new clothes, you know, for the evening

because we had special games like red light where we

just wouldn't get dirty, you know. (Laughter)

Ferguson: What's red light?

Taylor: It's weird, you have a person who stands a certain

number of feet away from each other and there are

other folks in the back. You turn your back to the

leader and you start counting. The object of the game

is for the people in the back to try to race up to you

before you turn around and look at them and catch them

running. The first one who gets up to where you are,

the leader, is the red light caller. So you count

one, two, three red light. While you're counting

everybody is running and you turn around and try to

catch the person and that person is out if he's

Rosita Taylor

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caught. So we used to do that. (Laughter) And then

when I was in elementary school we had, oh we had all

kinds of things. We were taught black history in

elementary. We had a little rhythm band. I was in a

rhythm band. We even had in our classes, we had

oratorical contests, spelling contests, spelling bees,

we had all of that. So I had fun. When I was in high

school I was in the band, I was in the choir. I

played an instrument in the band and I was a majorette

in band. So I, you know, I mean I had a good time in

school. I mean I had a good time growing up, I'm

sorry.

Ferguson: Did you have any role models or idols either in your

neighborhood or people, you know, famous people that

you particularly liked?

Taylor: The one person that I really, even though this is a

relative, my aunt, my aunt Elizabeth was really a

person that made an impact on my life, you know. And

I really looked up to her because she was liked by

people. She was a person who spoke, came forth with

what she had on her mind. I liked that, you know. So

she was one person. There was a teacher when I was in

Rosita Taylor

20

elementary school that I liked very much. In fact,

she was my fourth grade teacher I believe. In fact, a

lot of times I would stay with her on a weekend or she

would take me to visit her family that lived in

Winston-Salem. Most of the teachers walked and lived

in our neighborhood so they had to pass our house

going to school, to and from school. So we knew all

the teachers, you know, even after school. I'm trying

to think if there was, there was one other person in

high school that I really and truly admired, a

teacher, she was my music teacher. She sort of took

me under her wing and sort of counseled me, you know,

Mrs. Williams. Let me think of who else - I guess

those are the three people, yeah.

Ferguson: How were decisions made in your family? Who was the

boss at home?

Taylor: The boss at home (Laughter) - the boss at home was my

aunt. My aunt was the boss everywhere. Why I say

that is, she was the boss at home okay. You know my

dad was a quiet person too but we respected her enough

to know that whatever she, I mean whatever she gave us

and said, I mean that was it, you know. So she was

Rosita Taylor

21

like the person, you know. My mother then was again,

and my dad, you know, we respected her enough that we

sort of relied on her, you know. So she was our boss,

okay.

Ferguson: Was it her house that you were living in?

Taylor: It was her house and my mom and dad's from what I

understand.

Ferguson: So did she make all kinds of decisions about when you

went to school or when you moved - I guess you didn't

move when you were growing up but those kinds of

decisions?

Taylor: Well, in terms of elementary school and high school,

we had to go to those schools in those areas anyway.

College, when I went to college I was allowed to

select the college that I wanted to go to. I mean she

didn't say well, you have to go to this one or my mom

either or my dad. You know she would say this, she

would give you information about a thing and you know,

we sort of discussed and talked about it, whatever it

was. And the, but I mean you know, we listened to

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her. You know what I mean?

Ferguson: Right.

Taylor: Now she would say this. She was very, very strong

about your behavior. So now she would, I mean she

would really be extremely bossy about that. Example,

if someone came into the home and they were

disrespectful she would tell them right then and there

what the code was in the house. If you liked it,

fine. If not, she would just say okay, you've got to

go. And if we brought somebody into the home, whether

it be my mom, my dad or anybody and they did not act

accordingly then she would, you know, (Laughter).

Ferguson: Who disciplined you?

Taylor: She did and my mom and my dad. But I was basically

pretty good though. (Laughter) One reason why

because I didn't like to be spanked. You know I tell

people I don't ever remember being spanked by my

parents. I mean, you know what I'm saying? I mean it

sounds like I'm an angel but I'm not. But I mean I

just knew that there were things that I had to do and

Rosita Taylor

23

I just did them. I mean there were some things that I

did, I mean I never really did anything ridiculous

until maybe later, you know. Because I knew if I ever

got caught, you know, the first thing I would get a

counseling that would just ring in my ears forever.

(Laughter)

Ferguson: What kinds of chores did you have to do?

Taylor: Oh well, I took care of like the house, cleaning the

house. I like to do that, you know. I mean I would

do like windows and I'd do the dishes. I'd do the

floors. We had like hardwood floors. I would do

those. I'd cut the grass. I'd wash clothes.

Everything, yeah.

Ferguson: Do you remember, we talked a little bit about this but

maybe we can talk about it more specifically, what

kind of values do you think that your mother and

father and your aunt and your great grandmother

instilled in you? What was most important to you?

Taylor: I guess that one of the most important things to me

was the spiritual values. That's the most important

Rosita Taylor

24

thing. Most important. Most important. And not only

to talk about it, we lived it. We went to church not

to just be church goers but to go there and let that

be a place to give worship and take ourselves there so

that we could give as well as receive. The other

thing is to share with people and remember that there

are people out here who need you and you need them,

you know. The other thing was to always to do your

best, to strive for your best, to be the best that you

can be. And yet not be egotistical about it, you

know. Those are the things that are important to me.

Ferguson: How were you expected to behave in front of adults?

Taylor: With the utmost respect. (Laughter) First of all,

when I saw them I was to greet them. When they spoke

to me I was to speak to them with respect. You know,

I was to say yes ma'am, no ma'am, no sir, you know. I

was never to challenge them. If they did something to

me, I mean I just had to, I mean that I thought that

was off color, I just had to deal with it within

myself. You know what I mean? I could never display

anything in their presence, you know. I could come

home and talk about it and then again, I had to be

Rosita Taylor

25

careful because thing was this was an adult, you know.

And as I said before, during that time everybody sort

of had the same kind of principles that they upheld.

So I was never made to think that oh, my goodness, you

know, this adult was wrong and you were right, you

know. So it was always with respect. The other thing

I remember that when we went to visit as well as

adults being at our home, when we were having dinner

say like if an adult came to our home and we were

having dinner or eating with them, you know, after

that period you knew that you were not there in their

presence. You know you had to go to your room,

outdoors or wherever and play but you weren't there to

just be around them, you know.

Ferguson: Were you taught how to treat white people in terms of

codes of race, according to the racial codes that

existed in that time? Were you ever told this is how

you must treat white people in order to stay safe or

to...?

Taylor: Un-uh, no. The only thing I remember is, my aunt, she

used to always take me to town with her, you know.

And see we could walk from our home downtown. And of

Rosita Taylor

26

course, knowing that we couldn't go to the bathroom or

couldn't eat wherever, I always did this before I

left. She would make sure that I would go to the

bathroom and that kind of thing. But she would never

say okay now, don't say this to white folks or don't

do this. We never discussed that. First of all, we

lived, there were whites who lived next door to us.

So we were just taught to, I mean I was, to accept

people as people and love them and be kind to them.

So nobody said, you know, we just had so many things

going for ourselves. You know what I'm saying? And

I'm not saying that to be selfish but we didn't have

time. I mean I don't remember having time to think

about, you know what I mean, how I'm going to treat

someone or how to be separate.

Ferguson: Did you have any white playmates or did you have

contact with white children?

Taylor: I'm trying to think. When I grew up the family that

lived next door, I believe, I don't remember playing

with them because I think they were older than me,

yeah. I don't recall. Again too that was in our

favor, see we were Catholics and so we had white

Rosita Taylor

27

priests again so there again that might have been too.

I do remember though when my aunt, she would go to

the mountains with the ( ) in the summer and she

would take me with her. And so there were kids there

I played with. I remember playing with them, yeah.

Ferguson: What did you do when you went with her in the

summertime to the mountains? Were you working too?

Taylor: No. I just went with her just to have that experience

and to be in the mountains and see and learn. Like I

said, she was really a teacher.

Ferguson: Do you remember a lot of signs of segregation like

black and white water fountains?

Taylor: Un-huh, yes.

Ferguson: When you went to New Jersey in the summer did you ride

on a Jim Crow car?

Taylor: Yes. We went up, I'm trying to think, did we go up in

our car. I'm sure there were times. I think we went

in our car though. When we did go by train because we

Rosita Taylor

28

never traveled by bus, we were always on a train if we

went somewhere, we respected the signs. We knew they

were there and it just didn't bother us.

Ferguson: Do you remember any incidents either that you

experienced personally or someone else did where they

either defied the signs or didn't see them and they

got into trouble for violating the rules?

Taylor: No. I don't recall, un-uh.

Ferguson: Do you ever remember anyone getting in trouble with

the police for violating acceptable codes of behavior

for black people by white police?

Taylor: No.

Ferguson: Your aunt never married, did she?

Taylor: Right.

Ferguson: How were unmarried people seen in the community? Was

there any stigma attached to that?

Rosita Taylor

29

Taylor: No.

Ferguson: Was there a special place for unmarried women in the

community because of the role that they played?

Taylor: No.

Ferguson: Okay. Can you tell me a little bit about your school?

What elementary school did you attend?

Taylor: I went to Alexander Street School.

Ferguson: What was your favorite subject in school?

Taylor: I liked math and science and music.

Ferguson: Did you have anything that you didn't particularly

like about school?

Taylor: No.

Ferguson: Were you ever disciplined by your teachers?

Taylor: Yes, we had a code of behavior in our school that was

Rosita Taylor

30

explained first of all to our parents. It was

explained to us as students. From what I remember,

most of the students, ninety-nine percent of the

students followed that. If we got in trouble it was

maybe talking, you know, like if the teacher left out

to go to another room or do something. Maybe some

kids, she said now I don't want anybody to talk in

here and maybe somebody talked, you know. Otherwise

that was about the extent of what I remember.

Ferguson: Do you remember your teachers ever playing favorites?

Taylor: Our teachers, and I don't know whether this is what we

call the favorites as I see it, there were times when

in elementary school the teacher would say if you make

this kind of grade or if you would do this and these

are the students and that was to me just to stimulate

those who probably wouldn't do anything to strive.

But I don't' recall any favoritism in elementary.

Ferguson: How involved were your parents in the school?

Taylor: Oh, they went to parent P.T.A. meetings and they

talked with the teachers. They knew them. So they

Rosita Taylor

31

were very involved with my experience in school.

Ferguson: You said you learned black history in elementary

school.

Taylor: Un-huh.

Ferguson: What kinds of things did you learn?

Taylor: We used to have black history work. We made pictures

of some of the various leaders, Harriet Tugman, ( ).

We talked about them. We also had, we used to have

what we call assembly and we would come together.

We'd have some of the kids to portray who those

persons were and for a week we would have in our

school, you know, an illustration of the leaders. And

we did that my entire experience in elementary school.

Ferguson: This was a public school that you attended, Alexander

Street?

Taylor: Yes.

Ferguson: Was this, I'm not sure if you'll remember this at all,

Rosita Taylor

32

but do you know whether the black history that you

were taught was a part of the official curriculum or

something that your teachers taught you in addition to

what was the official curriculum?

Taylor: In addition because the teachers and I had, what they

did is they looked at you as a total person and they

looked at you in terms of what you would need. And so

they took it upon themselves to sight out various

things to teach us, you know. Example, they taught us

about hygiene. If a student came to school who didn't

have the proper kind of, you know, resources they

would actually clean them up, comb their hair so that

they would not be a separate entity in the class,

they'd be a part of, yeah.

Ferguson: Do you remember having a favorite figure from black

history?

Taylor: Let me see, oh, Marion Anderson.

Ferguson: And why was that?

Taylor: Well, as I said I like music and she had a kind of

Rosita Taylor

33

serenity about her that, you know, I was just in awe

when I saw her. I mean when I read about her and I

saw pictures of her, I mean it's just something

special about her, you know, that to me nobody else

that I've ever seen that serenity, you know. The

other thing is that she seemed so mature and she

seemed so complete to me, you know. So I was very

interested in Marion Anderson. Couldn't wait to see

her in person.

Ferguson: Did you ever see her as a child?

Taylor: No, I didn't see her as a child. I saw her as an

adult.

Ferguson: Did famous black people ever come to Charlotte to

speak or to appear, did you ever see?

Taylor: No. I don't remember anybody famous coming. I'm

thinking of elementary school now. No, I don't

remember.

Ferguson: How about in high school?

Rosita Taylor

34

Taylor: High school, I'm trying to think. Did anybody famous

come to our high school - I can't remember that so

evidently they didn't.

Ferguson: Do you think there were any major differences between

the way that your parents were, say your mother was

educated and the way that you were? Do you think

there was a generational change in terms of perhaps

the black history that you learned or something like

that?

Taylor: In terms of what my mother was taught versus...?

Ferguson: Right.

Taylor: No, I think it was consistent teaching.

Ferguson: Where did you go to high school?

Taylor: I went to Second Ward High School.

Ferguson: And how did you like that?

Taylor: I loved it. I liked it because first of all it meant

Rosita Taylor

35

I was growing up. (Laughter) I liked that too I

thought. The other thing is you had a chance to see

more people in your community on a one to one basis.

Then again you had the opportunity to expand your

teaching that you had acquired in elementary school.

We had a lot of things going on. We had a band like I

said. We had choruses. We had ensembles. We said we

did big time stuff. (Laughter) We had fun. We again

had the same kinds of discipline in terms of we had a

code of behavior that we had to follow. It was seen

to it that we did follow it. We had assemblies. I

think they were once a week, you know, we had

assemblies. One thing that I liked too is that we had

in high school, I went there in eighth grade, eighth

grade to twelfth and we had homerooms and so my

homeroom teacher that I had in eighth grade, she so

liked our class that she kept us for the whole four

years and that was the first time in history that had

ever happened in high school. We had plays. We did

oratorical presentations. We participated in band.

(End of Tape 1 - Side A)

Tape 1 - Side B

Taylor: We had all the sports, basketball and football. Great

times at those. We had dances. In high school we had

Rosita Taylor

36

every Wednesday, I think it was a Wednesday, we would

have at one of the Y's, all of the kids that went to

Second Ward because the Y was on that side of town, we

would all gather there and you know we'd have our

dances and stuff. We'd go and entertain. There were

no incidents there. So we just had fun. I mean I had

fun.

Ferguson: Did you have a big rivalry with West Charlotte High

School?

Taylor: Only at game time. Yeah, we had a big game, an annual

game, between Second Ward and West Charlotte and that

was always a big thing, who was going to win. There

were times when fights did break out. I mean not to

the point that anybody really beat up anybody real

bad. But they brought that to a minimal. You might

hear of one or two incidents where somebody got into a

fight or something. But the thing was, we challenge

you to win this game, yeah. (Laughter)

Ferguson: Did you know any kids who went to West Charlotte High

School?

Rosita Taylor

37

Taylor: Yes. I knew a lot of kids who went to West Charlotte.

I had, as I said, I took music, piano and voice and

there was, what did we call them, it was like an

evaluation of your presentation that was held at West

Charlotte so I would go. And we did this in assembly.

It was a private teacher that I was with so I had a

chance to, you know, see the students and meet the

students. And then being with the band and the glee

club we had times when we went to their school to do

different kinds of concerts and so we had a chance to

meet the students there.

Ferguson: Did you have to work during high school?

Taylor: No, un-uh. Let me say this, I didn't have to work.

One thing I wanted to do when I was in high school and

I thought golly, everybody, I wanted to work, you

know, but I mean it was a thing that I didn't have to

work. But what I wanted to do I always wanted to work

at a soda fountain, you know. I thought that was

intriguing, making milk shakes and everything. So we

had the first black hotel in our neighborhood which

was in walking distance of Alexander. So when that

became a reality in our community my dad was a chef so

Rosita Taylor

38

he worked there for awhile. So what I did is, we knew

Dr. Alexander very well and so they let me work there

on the weekend, you know, just for the excitement. I

think I only worked there a few months or so because I

just wanted to do that. But I didn't really have to

work.

Ferguson: You mentioned the hotel opening up. Where did people

stay before there were hotels if they came to town?

Taylor: The stayed with friends and family members.

Ferguson: I wanted to ask you, were you allowed to date when you

were in high school?

Taylor: To some extent. (Laughter)

Ferguson: What were the rules about that?

Taylor: The rules about that, I had to date, first of all my

parents had to know everything about the guy.

(Laughter) Everything. Had to know their parents. I

mean when I say everything I mean everything. I was

not allowed to, like coming home from school, I mean a

Rosita Taylor

39

guy could walk me home from school but I couldn't

stand outside like and talk to him outside. I

couldn't as we call it hang on the streets, you know,

with guys. If a guy was walking me home, I mean if

someone called and said hey, you know I saw Rosita

standing out on the corner with some guy. (Laughter)

You might have just been saying goodbye. You just

couldn't do that. Nobody did that in our

neighborhood. If you did it you had to be really I

mean good at doing it because you couldn't get by with

it. The other thing is there were certain things that

I couldn't do like I couldn't be caught kissing guys

and all of those little sexual innuendos. When I was

allowed to date the guy had a curfew and then there

were times when my parents had to be at home, you

know, when a guy came to visit. And the guy knew,

they knew what they had to do. I mean it was not like

hey, they would find this out before they came. They

knew that if they were coming to visit that they had

to come at a certain time. They had to leave at a

certain time. If the time exceeded that for whatever

reason you had somebody to come and give you a little

signal, you know. And there were times when my

parents would come and they actually, if I exceeded it

Rosita Taylor

40

they'd come and sit in the room first, you know what

I'm saying, to see what I was going to do. I never

did - I remember one time what I did. There was a

young lady up the street from me and seemingly all of

the guys, all of the seniors, I mean the guys who we

thought were, I mean seniors you know, we were like

freshman and seemingly all of the guys were just there

with her. But we knew that this young lady, all the

guys hung around her for a lot of reasons and we were

already told not to, I mean to be nice to her but not

to get caught up in here little thing. So one time I

decided, I don't know how we did this either. Another

friend of my, we decided, she was having a party, we

decided we wanted to go up and find out what is going

on. My mother was out of town then but my aunt was

off and so I got dressed, sneaked up there and it was

a block, one end of the block from me. And we were

just sitting in there trying to figure out what's

going on in this house, you know. The guy that I

liked at the time, he happened to be there. And the

two of us had just taken a picture. We were just

sitting there taking pictures and we were sitting in

the chair next to each other taking pictures and I

heard somebody say Rosita, your aunt is here to get

Rosita Taylor

41

you. Oh, my God, you know what I mean. And so I had

to leave. I can't remember now what happened to my

friend but that block from her house down to my house

I got this lecture. First of all I was disobedient

because I knew that I should not have done that. You

know what I mean? Whatever I was doing or whatever

the reason. And so I never tried to pull that trick

again. (Laughter)

Ferguson: So this girl kind of had a reputation of being loose?

Taylor: Yes, un-huh.

Ferguson: Were there any places that you went to sneak away to

get away from these rules?

Taylor: Now let me say this, we didn't get away from them

because now we had a place where it was about six or

seven blocks from us. You know it was a street, in

fact, it's in existence now. It's over on Eighth

Street. I don't know whether you are familiar with

the area but it's not too very far from the Afro

Cultural Center. It's really right a few blocks away

from here, Eighth Street. We used to use that street

Rosita Taylor

42

to skate and ride our bicycles. So all the guys and

the girls that liked each other or whatever, everybody

would go there to skate. But we still couldn't pull

any tricks there because as I said everybody watched

us, you know, and so they knew what the rules and

regulations were. But we would meet there at least

for some kind of freedom. You know we could skate and

be free.

Ferguson: What other kinds of things did you do for fun in high

school?

Taylor: Oh, let's see. Fun in high school. I used to like to

draw and paint and so that was sort of like a hobby of

mine that I did. In addition to that, the band and

the choruses and my music, that was basically it in

high school other than when we came home in the

community we would still play some games and stuff.

Ferguson: Did you go to the movies at all?

Taylor: Yeah, I forgot about that, I'm sorry. Yes, the

movies. We went to the movies. We had the Grand

Theater which is down from Johnson C. Smith. We went

Rosita Taylor

43

there frequently. I was either taken there by my

parents or my aunt. I'm trying to think, we would go

there, I'm guessing now, maybe on an average of at

least once a month if there was a good movie. We saw

things like, maybe a good love story. Of course,

there were not a lot of heavy things in love stories

then, you know. Maybe something about animals, you

know nothing, some of the nicer movies I guess.

Ferguson: Did you belong to any clubs when you were in high

school?

Taylor: We had, several of the young ladies that I associated

with, we had like our own little social club that I

was a member of.

Ferguson: What was it called?

Taylor: I can't even remember the name. I was trying to

remember that yesterday. I can't remember the name of

that club. What we would do is we would get together

and you know we'd just sit down and talk about the

guys, talked about what we were going to wear. You

know how girls do.

Rosita Taylor

44

Ferguson: Did you belong to any other clubs?

Taylor: At the time, other than the clubs we had in school, we

had - what was the name of that club we had in school

- it was more, it was basically the same thing because

we were not allowed to have too many clubs in school

that were social clubs, you know, that did any

functions. Everything we had like we had an honors

society, we had an oratorical club, but that was

established by the school, you know, so we didn't have

anything that we as, well we had the student council.

That was one thing. But we didn't have anything else

in terms of a club. I don't know if that makes sense

or if that's what you're asking me.

Ferguson: Do you remember people ever belonging to the NAACP

when you were in high school?

Taylor: No.

Ferguson: Did any of your teachers talk about the situation of

African Americans and the need, you know, for the end

of segregation or the right to vote or that kind of

Rosita Taylor

45

thing?

Taylor: Un-uh, I don't remember that in high school.

Ferguson: Okay.

Taylor: We were taught in Civics, you know, we were taught how

to do the voting but nobody talked about us in terms

of a people, you know, get serious groups together.

No, I don't remember any of that in high school.

Ferguson: Did your parents vote?

Taylor: Yes.

Ferguson: They did? I forgot to ask your mother that.

Taylor: In fact, my mother worked with the registration of

voters as well as, then you know she worked

registering people to vote.

Ferguson: When was this, in the 1950's?

Taylor: Un-huh.

Rosita Taylor

46

Ferguson: What organization was that?

Taylor: I don't think it was actually an organization per se.

I think it was just some folks in the community who

came together, you know, to make sure that people did

vote. They didn't sit and have a meeting every month

or this kind of thing. They felt a need to find out

who was registered and this kind of thing.

Ferguson: Do you remember people ever having trouble registering

to vote when you were growing up?

Taylor: In Charlotte, no. Other places where I've lived, yes.

Ferguson: So what did you do when you finished high school?

Taylor: I went immediately away to college.

Ferguson: And what college was that?

Taylor: I went to Xavier University in New Orleans.

Ferguson: Why did you decide to go there?

Rosita Taylor

47

Taylor: Well, I had planned on going to another school which

was Catholic. It was my decision and my family's

decision too that I go to a Catholic school which I

was very much in favor of. I had planned to go to a

school, Maryville. What happened was that we didn't

realize at the time, I was accepted, we didn't realize

at the time that I had to have my application in a

year prior to in order to go off to school in 1953.

So I would have had to wait another year to go there.

So Xavier University is a Catholic university. One

of my church members who was, she had finished I think

Xavier or it was her last year there prior to my

going. So I talked with her and my family got with

her to see how she liked it and so based on that I

decided to go there.

Ferguson: Was this a black school?

Taylor: It was a school established by Catholic nuns for

blacks and Indians, Mayan Indians in South Dakota.

Ferguson: So the students were all black when you were there?

Rosita Taylor

48

Taylor: Black and Indian students.

Ferguson: What did you major in when you went there?

Taylor: I majored in science.

Ferguson: Were there any sororities and fraternities?

Taylor: We had sororities and fraternities but the year that I

entered they were disbanded.

Ferguson: Was there a big change going to New Orleans from

Charlotte?

Taylor: Yes, it was a change. The first change was that to

live in a dormitory setting was quite different and to

live in, you know, the close proximity of another

person. I mean you know, with you all the time in the

room and they were very small. That was quite a

change for me. The weather was another thing. Yeah,

it was quite a change.

Ferguson: Was there any difference as far as the rules of

segregation in New Orleans?

Rosita Taylor

49

Taylor: Yes, very much so.

Ferguson: What were the differences?

Taylor: They were really very, very segregated in New Orleans.

We were informed when we arrived as students that it

did exist. It was very real. It was a thing that we

had to have up front at all times because we really

could lose our lives. We had to follow the rules and

regulations that were established in terms of, you

know, if you saw a fountain that said blacks - I'm

trying to think, they didn't use the word blacks.

Ferguson: Colored?

Taylor: Colored, yeah right, you had to adhere to that because

the first thing the school just disallowed anybody

calling saying hey, you were in trouble as a result of

that because they had already explained it. If you

were found to have violated that rule then you would

have been dismissed from school because they just

weren't going to go through that hassle. I do recall

that on the buses they had the signs. You had to sit

Rosita Taylor

50

behind the signs. They had these seats. In the top

of the seat they had like holes in the seat and they

had these wooden signs and what you had to do, the

buses, you know the seat behind the driver?

Taylor: Un-huh.

Ferguson: That first little small seat, when you got on the bus

you had to sit behind that sign. You could never sit

the seat behind the driver or those first seats on the

side. And when you got on the bus, when a white

person got on the bus or you got on the bus you took

that sign and you put it down and you sat behind it.

We always traveled because the school was located

within walking distance from downtown so as students

we did a lot of walking when we went downtown. But I

do recall we had an occasion to have a football game

with another school, Dillard and it was going to be on

their campus. I mean I really knew what they said at

that time in terms of segregation but I had never

really thought, I mean would people take it to this

extent. But coming from the game the bus was filled

with blacks so the guy said to us, the driver, you

know you can take the signs down. And I happened to

Rosita Taylor

51

be sitting in the seat behind the driver and we were

coming back to Xavier's campus. A white guy got on

the bus and he said, he looked around first, and he

said do I have to stand up. And so the driver said

okay everybody, you have to put the sign back up.

Everybody who was on those long seats had to get up.

Everybody who was on those first two short seats had

to get up, put the sign up, stand up for this white

guy. He only went, I don't even think he went five

blocks. When I saw that I thought God, this thing is

more than what we see on the surface. It's very deep

rooted. We had one occasion, this young lady was a

freshman with me from South Dakota, an Indian. She

looked white of course, all of her features. She was

on the bus with some of the black students and she got

on and sat in the back. The driver told her that she

had to get up and come up front and she said why. And

he said because you have to sit in front of this sign.

All blacks are in the back and you're in the front.

And so she refused to do so. She just got off the bus

and walked to where she had to go. When I experienced

that I became a little more frightened because I said

hey, I really have to be careful. I recall too that

we had a movie that the students, we went to. It was

Rosita Taylor

52

a movie that we had to go to as blacks at the time. I

think that whites went to the movie also, they did

because upstairs this is where we sat. See I had

never gone, like here the movie was, you know, the

Grand, we sat anywhere, you know. We didn't go to the

white movies but the movies we had we could sit

anywhere. So I had never gone to a movie and had to

sit upstairs and whites downstairs. And I remember I

was dating, the guy that I was dating was very, very

fair. In fact, you couldn't tell him from a white

guy. I mean I was petrified when I walked with him.

Nobody bothered us but I had this, I was petrified.

The whole time I sat in the movie thinking oh God,

don't throw me out of this movie. (Laughter)

Ferguson: So you sat upstairs?

Taylor: We sat upstairs.

Ferguson: So you were afraid of the stewards, that they would

think it was an interracial relationship?

Taylor: Yes. Another thing too is, I remember downtown you

could not try on, in many of the stores, you couldn't

Rosita Taylor

53

try on the clothing. The school was within walking

distance from one of the stores. When you went in you

had to be extremely cautious. You were advised not to

touch anything unless you were going to buy it and

even then you let somebody else pick it up. Hats, you

couldn't try hats on. You couldn't try garments on.

I mean, you know, it was really tough in New Orleans.

Ferguson: Do you remember anybody getting into serious trouble

from school?

Taylor: No, I don't recall anybody getting into serious

trouble from school.

Ferguson: Was there ever the opposite situation from yours where

one of your friends with darker complexion was going

out with a light skinned person? Do you remember that

kind of incident happening?

Taylor: Where you mean the people in the city might have

thought that they were interracial?

Ferguson: Yeah.

Rosita Taylor

54

Taylor: No, I don't recall, no. New Orleans is comprised of a

lot of fair skinned blacks there. In fact, at the

time I was in school we probably had more fair skinned

blacks on our campus than darker skinned. And I don't

recall any incidents as you just mentioned.

Ferguson: Do you ever remember even in Charlotte men that you

knew being accused of looking at a white woman?

Taylor: No, I don't recall that.

Ferguson: Was there any kind of sort of internal hierarchy at

your school between light skinned and dark skinned

blacks? Was there any kind of problem? Were light

skinned blacks treated better by the professors or was

there any kind of social, did people associate

differently?

Taylor: There was a fair, I mean, there seemingly and I don't

know whether, we didn't act too much on it and yet

again I guess we did. I guess because the light

skinned blacks were in the majority of course it

seemed more like they were the queens and they were

the everythings. And I think there were times when,

Rosita Taylor

55

you know, the darker blacks thought well hey, you

know, I mean we are being segregated, you know. And

then I'm sure, I don't recall professors outwardly

showing any differences. I don't, no.

Ferguson: In school would that ever happen, in high school or

elementary school?

Taylor: No, I don't remember in high school or elementary, un-

uh. And then too, I notice now a lot of my friends at

Xavier were fair skinned. As I said again, perhaps

because it was the majority, they never made any

distinction, you know. Again, sometimes you might

feel, I mean we hear now that there was a concerted

effort for blacks to make a difference but we didn't

do that. I mean we just, you know, that's not my

experience, you know what I'm saying. We just became

friends. We looked at people again once in terms of

their principles. And those of us who were friends we

were truly friends and we didn't look at each other in

terms of color.

Ferguson: Right. Do you remember people being politically

active at all in New Orleans? Maybe not elections and

Rosita Taylor

56

so on but sort of the thing I was asking you about

high school. Professors or students who wanted to

change things, wanted to act in a united way to change

the situation of African Americans?

Taylor: No, I don't recall that at Xavier either.

Ferguson: Do you think that that was partly to do with the

racial situation in New Orleans as you described it?

Taylor: I think it was again partly because we knew that at

that particular time you know we couldn't dwell on, we

just had to do what we needed to do to excel. We

couldn't waste time. You understand what I'm saying?

We couldn't dwell on trying to get groups together to

see how the whites felt about us. We knew that hey,

if you learn this, you got this in your head and you

did this and you behaved a certain way, hey, you can

do it. You know what I'm saying? So at that time

that's what we dwelled on there, the academics and our

behavior.

Ferguson: Did most of your friends from high school go to

college?

Rosita Taylor

57

Taylor: Yes.

Ferguson: They did?

Taylor: Un-huh. In fact, not only my friends but the majority

of my classmates from Second Ward went to college.

Ferguson: Was it the same at other black high schools do you

think?

Taylor: Yes.

Ferguson: What would have happened if you hadn't gone to

college? What kind of job could you have gotten with

a high school diploma back then?

Taylor: Oh, golly, what could I have gotten had I not gone to

high school? Probably at the time working as

somebody's maid.

Ferguson: There were a lot of high school graduates doing that

kind of thing?

Rosita Taylor

58

Taylor: I'm thinking again from, no, I mean if they did that

again I'm thinking, they were still in school. You

know, they were still in college somewhere. If they

were here in the city they might have done it to

supplement in order to go. But that was not their

thing and as I said, most of the people from my school

went to college and West Charlotte also.

Ferguson: What kind of organizations did you belong to at

Xavier?

Taylor: I was in one of our religious groups. I was in the

drama club. I'm trying to think, we had a chemistry

club. We had a student organization for our dorm and

I was a member of that, one of the officers there.

Ferguson: Were there a lot of places off campus to go to have

fun?

Taylor: No. The only place that we went to have fun was to

the movies. Everything else we had was on campus.

Like we had our own opera. We had a major opera on

campus. We had a Mardi Gras. We actually had our own

Mardi Gras ball with the costumes. I don't mean just

Rosita Taylor

59

junk. I mean quality. Everything that was for fun

was held right there on campus.

Ferguson: Were the rules strict at school?

Taylor: Extremely.

Ferguson: So what kind of things?

Taylor: First of all, we could not sit on campus. You know

how when you come out of class you sit on the grass

and stuff. We could not do that. We had a certain

kind of behavior that we had to carry with the guys.

We would never be caught sitting or coming across

campus letting a guy hug you and all that stuff. We

couldn't do that. We went to the library, of course

we had to sign in and out. We had someone at the

library to know that, this is a campus student, to

know that we were there. When we came back we had

somebody, once we checked in, we called them the

matron then, they had to know we were there. They saw

to it that we were in the dorm, you know. On Sundays,

and this is when I was a freshman, we had a time we

had to be in, we had a time to be out. When we had

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60

the guys, like if the guys would come to visit us in

the dorm of course there was a certain time they could

come, a certain way they had to treat you. I mean if

you kissed a guy you had to make sure nobody was

around. You know what I mean? You know what I'm

saying? You always had the matron around somewhere

even while we were dating the guys. Let me see what

else. Our rooms had to be clean. When I say clean, I

mean they had to be in tip top shape everyday. We had

inspection like we were in the Army, you know. At

night time we had quiet hour. In fact, the dorm had

to be very quiet all the time. We couldn't be

whooping and carrying on as we say. We had a time for

study, certain hours. You just couldn't make any

noise. We had a time we had to be in the bed. We had

to have lights off. After the time the lights were

supposed to be off if you needed to be up for any

reason, you had to prior get permission from the house

mother. Let me see. In order to go off campus you

had to get permission from your family. They had to

have sort of a history about the family you were going

to, your family, as well as the school. They had to

identify the days that you could be there, how much

time you could spend. We had a certain dress code.

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61

We could wear nothing with a low cut, had to be a

certain, I mean they inspected this. You couldn't

wear like formal wear, like off shoulders, you know.

You couldn't wear that unless you had to have

covering. Your dresses had to be a certain length.

Oh golly, everything, it was strict. We had to go to

church at a certain time every Sunday. We had to sign

out for chapel. We didn't call it chapel, it was mass

for us. Oh golly, it was everything.

Ferguson: Did you ever resent any of these rules?

Taylor: I'll tell you what, now see I had rules at home, okay.

But I remember one time, I just decided now this is

just a little bit much. (Laughter) When I was a

freshman I was dating one of the most popular guys and

well liked guys and respected guys on campus. He was

a junior. And I decided one evening that I was going

to take a walk up the street and we did. It was in

the daylight. And when I turned around to come back

down the street I could see the matron standing

outside waiting for me. And so, I mean he looked at

me and I looked at him, you know, and said oh, my

goodness gracious and I thought well, I did it, you

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62

know. And so when I approached her she said to me,

you know she sort of asked me, she said to me now you

know what the rules and regulations are. And I said

yes, I said but I just couldn't take it anymore, I'm

just tired of staying in this dorm, you know. And it

was twice as warm in New Orleans. It's nothing like

you've ever seen, okay, even though we had air

conditioning in the dorm. So she said to me, she said

well look, you have never been in trouble. I'm not

going to ground you or anything and I'm just hoping

that you won't do this again. Well, I never tried

that again. That's the only time. Otherwise I was a

perfect person. (Laughter)

Ferguson: Were your professors black?

Taylor: We had white professors. We had professors from

abroad. We had all different nationalities for

professors and we had Catholic nuns.

Ferguson: Right. Did you have a favorite teacher, a favorite

professor there?

Taylor: No. I'm just saying no. (Laughter) Did I, let's

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63

see. Yes, I did. This person didn't teach me. She

was an art teacher that I admired. I had one nun.

She was an art teacher also. Yes, there were teachers

that I admired. Most of the teachers in my field,

they had to do what they had to do but they were very,

very strict. I mean they were hard teachers. I mean

I had a botany teacher who was from Switzerland and he

could not write so that you could understand him and

he could not speak so you could understand him. And

he just went through his lessons like everybody

understood. And even if you asked him you still

didn't know. So I mean it was just tough. You had to

really buckle down. We had a chemistry teacher who

talked as if he had something in his mouth always and

so you just could not understand him and he talked

real slow and it was like hey, now I know you

understand me. A lot of the students failed his

course, not because they didn't have the ability but

everybody was petrified. I had a nun, the meanest

person in the world who was my lab teacher. I mean

she just made people shake, you know. So there were a

lot of professors there that I just thought they were

just too much, you know. But we withstood.

(Laughter)

Rosita Taylor

64

Ferguson: Did you finish college?

Taylor: Yeah.

Ferguson: What did you do after that?

Taylor: Okay, my senior year I went to, this was a part of my

curriculum, I had to spend one year in a hospital

setting and I went to St. Louis, Missouri and I did an

internship there in a hospital as a medical

technologist.

Ferguson: So that's what you were training to become?

Taylor: Yeah. And so I spent a year there and then back to

graduation at Xavier. And after I finished there I

went immediately, was hired into Catholic Hospital.

Ferguson: Where was that?

Taylor: In St. Louis.

Ferguson: What was St. Louis like compared to Charlotte and New

Rosita Taylor

65

Orleans? Was there a lot of segregation up there as

well?

Taylor: St. Louis was a little more like, it wasn't as bad as

New Orleans and it wasn't, it was much better than -

when I say, by then things were moving up for

everybody and so there were not any problems that I

can cite at the moment.

Ferguson: This was in the late 1950's then?

Taylor: Yeah, this was 1958-1959.

Ferguson: When you say things were changing, what do you mean?

Taylor: Well, people didn't have out signs. You know, when you

went into stores people didn't, I mean they didn't

just openly do some of the things. I mean you just

felt a little freer. I do know though after I

finished college and I went to work at the hospital,

there were several incidents. First of all, I was the

first black in my department at the hospital. I was

naive to the extent that, you know, that I just

thought even seeing some of the things that I had that

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66

people would accept you based on your experience.

Well, I was far from wrong. There were a lot of

hidden agendas. Some of my co-workers, you know, I

found later that they didn't like it because I was

black. Not that I did anything, they just didn't like

the skin color. I recall we had a chemistry

consultant, that was one of my specialties, clinical

chemistry, who took me to a meeting, it was a national

meeting at one of the private white clubs and she was

a member of this club and we were refused, I mean she

could have gone to the meeting but once I arrived and

they saw that I was black they said that I couldn't be

there. So she withdrew her membership and we left.

She didn't understand. I mean she knew that

segregation existed and probably participated, you

know, to some extent herself and really didn't realize

the impact. There were times we had a, near the

hospital where I worked, we had an eating place. I

recall once I went there with my co-workers and they

took a long time in serving us and they finally told

us that they would serve everybody except me. And so

everybody said okay, well you won't have to serve any

of us and we all left. I had the opportunity but this

was here though, I had the opportunity to be selected

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67

to come back to a city in South Carolina representing

the hospital in my area with one of my supervisors and

again, we were segregated there. I mean that showed

her as a nun. I mean there were all kinds of little

subtle things. In the hospital though, primarily the

hospital was composed of middle class to upper class

whites. I never had any problems with any of the

patients or the doctors there.

Ferguson: Was that your experience throughout your life that

poorer whites were the ones to look out for in terms

of that kind of treatment?

Taylor: Let me see, can I say that. I can say yes. I'll say

that, yeah, that from my experience. I also had when

I was in St. Louis again at the hospital one of my co-

workers who was Jewish, we worked side by side, we

became very good friends. She always talked about me

to her family. They never knew whether I was black or

not and I recall her mother worked at one of the

department stores and we went out one evening to eat

and her father was a traveling sales person and he had

never had seen me, as I said before, but he heard his

wife and his daughter talk about me. They never again

Rosita Taylor

68

said that I was black or white. I had gone and spent

the night with them and this kind of thing. Anyway,

he happened to come to the store that day when I was

there and when they introduced me to him, you know, I

wasn't aware that he was taking it upon himself hey,

this is a black woman. I thought she was white. But

when I arrived home his daughter called very much

upset to let me know that her father said that he

never wanted her to associate with me because I was

black. And she was just very much in awe with this.

She said that he had to choose between me and her

because she saw nothing wrong with me, that her

experience with me, she thought I was a nice person.

I had never done anything to prove that she had any

reasons to do this. She was a very strong willed

person and so she sort of defied him to the extent

that he thought that he better do something different.

So he personally called me on the phone and

apologized, opened his house and said look, you can

come and do anything. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm

sorry. So those are the kinds of things I experienced

when I was in St. Louis.

Ferguson: When you were in St. Louis did you live in a black

Rosita Taylor

69

neighborhood?

Taylor: Yes, I did. I'm trying to think, yeah.

Ferguson: Did you do a lot of socializing with your white co-

workers?

Taylor: Yes, because we went to things like operas and all

kinds of things.

Ferguson: Did you make any black friends when you were there?

Taylor: Yes, I had a lot of black friends there also.

Ferguson: So when did you leave St. Louis and come back here or

whatever you did after St. Louis?

Taylor: Okay, after St. Louis I decided to go to graduate

school so I came back to, I received a scholarship at

AU, Atlanta University so I went there and enrolled in

school.

Ferguson: Around when was that?

Rosita Taylor

70

Taylor: 1969.

Ferguson: So you worked in Missouri until then?

Taylor: Right, from 1958 to 1969.

Ferguson: And what degree did you get there?

Taylor: A master's degree in social work.

Ferguson: So did you come back here then after that?

Taylor: After I finished I worked there until 1980-something

and then I came here. I came here because my mother

became seriously ill.

Ferguson: Why did you decide to become a social worker? Why did

you decide to leave science?

Taylor: I didn't really leave science. I thought at the time

because I had such a concentration of experience in

the area of science and health. Then it became a time

when you needed to be a little more well rounded. You

needed to know about some of the other things that

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71

were happening. So I thought it was necessary for me

to try this discipline and also to sort of get away

from just being boxed in, you know.

Ferguson: So did you work as a social worker when you were

finished?

Taylor: I worked, I did not, let me say what I did. First of

all, because of my background in science I spent a

year at Emory University in rehabilitation. I worked

as a social worker with a team approach working with

persons who had strokes and paraplegics, different

kinds of paralysis. I did that and then after that I

got a job with health and human services. This was

through Atlanta University. We had a contract.

Because of my experience again, what I was responsible

for was, at a federal level, was to go and provide

training and technical assistance to child development

centers, primarily Head Start programs in eight

states. And so I did that with them. And then I

also, I did several things at the same time,

simultaneously I guess. Sometimes I had two jobs at

one time. I also worked for, I'm trying to think,

during the same period I was on the faculty at

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72

Spelman. I worked with the National Medical

Association. What I was responsible for there was to,

we had a program where by students who were interested

in medicine and the other health...(End of Tape 1 -

Side B)