From Celebrated Concert Pianist to Beauty, Media & Lifestyle Brand Maven: The Angela Jia Kim Story

Professionally I:

z Created the 90 Day Year. A program for business owners who are frustrated with their level of performance and want to learn the art & science of execution,

z Failed at several businesses. (One of those I lost my entire life savings.) But, I also won at enough to turn them into seven and eight figure ventures,

z Worked all over the world. 82 countries total,

z Coached thousands upon thousands of athletes on developing their mental game,

z Advised & Mentored hundreds of business owners on high performance and personal leadership.

z Built a software company.

z And, I’m not done yet...

Personally I am:

z A husband to a beautiful, smart and z financially sharp woman, who really wants

a third baby (unfortunately we haven’t mastered two),

z A father to two little girls, whom aren’t very good sleepers, giggle a lot and are obsessed with ‘horsey’s’ and merry-go-rounds,

z A daily letter writer. I’ve written over 3600 personal letters to people. (5 a week since I was 23),

z A farmboy from Schuler, Alberta, Canada. z A New Yorker, living in Chelsea.

ABOUT TODD HERMAN

Want to go from HAVING great ideas,

to consistently EXECUTING

on great ideas?

Discover The ‘90 Day Year’ Transformation HERE

Entrepreneurs struggle with the chasm that separates starting something and finishing it. Let me show you the system for achieving massive growth in

your business, without the overwhelm and stress.

Angela Jia Kim - #20

Show notes at: http://bit.ly/KimGrit

From Celebrated Concert Pianist to Beauty, Media & Lifestyle Brand

Maven: The Angela Jia Kim Story

Todd Herman: Welcome to Episode #20. In Episode #19 you heard the strange journey

of a woman who grew up homeless, became a traveling theater performer, daycare

owner, and ultimately one of the most powerful community and tribe builders on the

internet.

In today’s episode you’ll hear from a woman who was an acclaimed concert pianist and

left that world to stand in a cold tent to sell cosmetics in Columbus Circle here in New

York City but kept hustling to become a power-female entrepreneur with multiple brands

and businesses, Angela Jia Kim.

Welcome to the Grit ‘n’ Hustle podcast with your host, entrepreneur, and internationally

acclaimed ultra-high performance and leadership advisor, Todd Herman. The place to

hear 100% real and raw stories of how high achievers actually made it with no cotton

candy fluff, no filler, and no fades, just actionable inspiration to keep you learning,

growing, and striving to reach new personal bests.

Without any more delay, here’s your host, Todd Herman.

Hello Grit ‘n’ Hustle Nation. If this is your first time listening in, thank you for choosing

us to spend some time with today. Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast over at iTunes.

Now, just like all the episodes, we have show notes, transcripts, and actionable tips over

at the blog. You just need to go to http://toddherman.me/blog to dig into all the goodies

that we have there.

If you’ve ever heard about the value of having a mentor or mentorship, I just wrote the

definitive guide on finding and becoming a mentor. If you just text the word “hustle” to

38470 it will magically appear in your hands through the power of good old technology.

I have had the great fortune of having some incredible mentors in my life and those

mentors easily accelerated my path to achieving new successes by steering me around

roadblocks that would’ve normally slowed me down and also introducing me to better

quality people to help me out as well.

It’s the question I get asked the most about so I created a guidebook to help you reap

the benefits of a great mentor. And, if you are in a position to be a mentor to others you

will get incredible value from the structure of how to make it a win-win for both sides.

Again, just text “hustle” to 38470. If you’re outside the U.S. and Canada just go to

http://toddherman.me and you can snag it there. Now on to today’s show.

Entrepreneur.com said, “If Angela Jia Kim were a Hollywood personality she would be

considered a triple threat.” She pulls from her experience as an accidental entrepreneur

who built the Savor Lifestyle brand from scratch to seven figures to help others do the

same. She is also a former award-winning and jet-setting concert pianist, a New York City

“not” housewife, and mom to a first-grader CEO and chocolate-loving yellow lab.

Angela founded Om Aroma & Co. and Eco-Chic Skincare and Savor Spa in New York City’s

West Village and Woodstock, New York, which the New York Times says has drawn a

loyal following among fashion industry types for its decadent, yet affordable, holistic

facials and massages. She has also founded a women empowerment organization, Savor

the Success, which was chosen as Forbes’ Top 100 Websites for Women, where creators

and makers push each other to achieve through meeting benchmarks together.

Her newest venture is Savor Life, the first beauty-to-business magazine for women. I

could have talked to Angela for hours and hours on this one. We talk about the realities

of growing a business, how she benchmarked herself against someone else in a farmer’s

market to try and sell as much product as her, and how she constantly iterated on her

business to grow it into a power brand.

This was like sitting down with an old friend. I know you’re going to enjoy hearing from

this energetic New Yorker, Angela Kim.

Todd: Grit ‘n’ Hustle is real and raw stories telling you exactly how people who have

done good things have actually gotten to where they are today.

Angela Kim, thank you so much for joining us on the Grit’n’Hustle show.

Angela: I’m so excited to be here. I’ve been looking forward to this for a while because

it’s one of my favorite topics.

Todd: Well, I’d love to find out right off the bat, what have I interrupted in someone’s

day by doing this interview? What’s on your calendar today?

Angela: It’s just a lot of work here. I’ve got the staff here and we’re just working through

a lot of holiday projects. It’s holiday season coming up!

Todd: Why don’t we actually start there? In the intro, I highlighted some of your

businesses, but why don’t you, kind of, straight from the horse’s mouth, explain all of the

different enterprises that Angela is involved in.

Angela: You probably mentioned I’m a former concert pianist and that led to Om Aroma

& Co, my organic skin-care line that’s produced fresh daily in the Hudson Valley about

two hours north of New York City. I have a boutique spa in the West Village in New York

City called Savor Spa.

I also have a spa in Woodstock, New York. We are expanding and along the way I always

say my cream inspires others to dream. So, I launched Savor the Success, a women’s

empowerment organization, and I just recently launched Savor Life magazine, which is

the first magazine that covers beauty to business.

I call it the Savor Lifestyle brand because it really is about living your dream and savoring

life along the way.

Todd: You highlight that, I was going to ask you why “Savor”, why has that word

resonated with you?

Angela: It’s funny, it’s not funny actually but it is what leads me here; my dad passed

away when I was 13 years old and I never thought life could be so fleeting. I never

thought life was that fragile. I think when you experience something so jolting like that

it makes you realize the fragility of life and that you only really have one life so let’s make

something of it and really savor the moments along the way—the good and the bad.

Todd: I’m glad you bring that up. I often find that the people who are trumpeting some

sort of mantra or phrase are usually trumpeting it because it’s the very thing they have

always struggled with themselves. So has savoring the moment always been something

that Angela has possibly struggled with, because you are a total achiever type?

Angela: Yes.

Todd: You are always looking at growth and expansion and doing more and stuff.

Angela: That’s such an acute observation. I really believe what you just said is true.

Totally. Savor the Success is really about my parents who are Korean. They were well

intentioned but definitely tiger parents. It was all about winning that next competition as

a pianist and getting into the best schools, getting all A’s.

“A-? What’s that minus? What is that?” It was all about succeeding for the sake of

accomplishing and succeeding. Along the way I just really got burnt out. The suicide rate

is very high among a lot of Asian students because it’s all about the success.

Then I found that even when I would succeed I would decide that didn’t taste so good

and wondered what was next. At what point was I going to be happy? The Forbes’

billionaire list where they are just competing with each other, that’s still not enough. So

when is it ever a moment where you take time and say, “That was amazing! This feels

so amazing and good, let’s savor it.”

Todd: I find it really ironic though that you are the torch bearer of savoring the moment

and all of those examples of billionaires that are fighting it out at the top, yet you are

doing it in the most hyper-competitive city in the world. It is a constant reminder that

you have got less than someone else.

Just a couple of weeks ago in the New York Times there was a gentleman who bought a

condo in New York for, I think, $88 million dollars. The very next week someone came in

and bought one for $118 million dollars. Even at that level it’s very much a reminder here

in the city that whatever you think you have, if you’re in the comparison zone, there is

always someone that will come along. It’s just funny that you’re doing it while also being

embedded in a very competitive city.

Angela: Totally. It’s extremely competitive in New York City. You said something where

you always have less than someone else. The question is, do you really have less than

that person? And does it really matter?

It’s a hamster wheel. I just want to enjoy my life and I want to enjoy it to the hilt. I love

healthy competition. I think healthy competition is so good for you because when used

right and when you focus competition in a way that draws out the best in everyone, it

draws out the best in everyone.

Todd: When you see competition for your Savor retail and beauty stores, what’s the first

thought that goes through your head about that?

Angela: I just love competition. It makes me want to do my best. I think I’m inherently

a lazy person. I could stay in my bed all day and just hang out with my daughter and my

dog but my husband is like, “Get up, get up!”

I kind of need that excitement. I find it very sexy. I find it very stimulating to be in healthy

competition. Your question was how that affects me?

Todd: Yes, you know, when you see that competition, like if Kiehl’s is opening a store

right next to yours.

Angela: Oh my god! I always have said to my employees if Kiehl’s or somebody would

open right next door to us we would double our revenue instantly.

Todd: You would?

Angela: Yeah, that really excites me. It would be like, “Okay! Now we’ve got to really

differentiate ourselves. We’ve got to find our corner.” That’s how I started. About five

years ago I opened up my first holiday pop-up shop in Bryant Park.

I had my little booth and across the way was a phenomenal, wonderful entrepreneur who

is so cute. She sold really colorful handbags. She always had so many people in her booth

and I never had anyone in mine because I was just starting out. I didn’t know anything

about merchandising. I didn’t know anything about sales. I didn’t know anything about

business period.

I had also just given birth to Sienna so I was breastfeeding. That’s how I got better at

what I did. I looked at what she was doing and saw that she had a lot of color and that

was what was attracting people. I knew I had to get more color too so I just used it as

my Harvard Business School education.

I hate copying people. I like to use what they’ve got to find what’s special about myself.

I would come in everyday and all of the entrepreneurs were around and they would

always laugh when I would show up. I would show up with a new technique to sell

because she was such an inspiration to me.

She was making $1,000 a day and at the time that was so much money to me. I was

making maybe $200 to $400 a day. I had to get to $1,000. I figured if she could do it I

could do it to. So every day I would come up with creative solutions. I remember one

day I showed up with a silver platter.

We have a product called the champagne cleanser. I put the cleanser there and had little

champagne goblets that I was giving out. People were just laughing at me because I

never gave up. But that’s an important story. I think it can inspire a lot of other people.

What I did in those two months in the cold winter months of New York City was start to

develop my sales system. It is now a system that the aestheticians in spas use to sell

products.

Everything I learned, how a customer looks at me, am I too aggressive, what made them

take out their credit card to buy, what was it that I did this time…I studied everything.

That came from healthy competition out there. And that was a really awesome, special

time.

Todd: You mentioned that you started with a pop-up shop. Was that strategic? Did you

decide you would validate your business idea or product with a pop-up shop and not

invest in retail space, or what was your thought process behind that?

Angela: I wish I were as smart as you just painted me to be. I had just given birth to

my daughter on October 6 in St. Vincent’s Hospital in the West Village (it is no more). I

was back home and I don’t know if this is going to sound terrible, but I was kind of bored

because I had just come back from touring piano and now my baby was always sleeping

and I adored her and loved her but I felt I had a little tiny partner and wanted to do

something together.

I felt a creative force inside of me, an activity inside of me. I had double the energy and

wanted to know what I was going to do with the energy. I said, “Sienna, we are going

to open a pop-up shop and we’re going to make this happen.” And I just did it.

Todd: She was so excited with that idea. You were in her face telling her you were going

to open a pop-up shop.

Angela: I know, she was just a month old and said, “Okay!”

Todd: She could already verbalize. You have a very advanced child right off the bat.

Okay, so you did the pop-up shop. Would you call that a success?

Angela: I sold around $40,000 of greens in the holiday period. I like to do what everyone

else is doing. I remember the big soap shop that’s been around for 20 years did $100,000.

I felt like a failure compared to them. But then, you know what, it was $40,000. I would

never make that kind of money with a business because I had just launched. Then I

thought, “Oh, I think I have a business.”

I was very naïve. I decided it was a concept that could kind of work. So I just followed

my nose and that’s what I’ve done. I opened a little pop-up shop in Limelight Marketplace

as well. That is in Chelsea. It was my next venture into retail.

Eventually I realized I had a lot of people that were buying from me that lived in the West

Village so that’s what led to the boutique spa in the West Village.

Todd: Why do you think people were buying from you? Were people buying from you

because you were a good salesperson? Everyone loves to try to craft a brand story and I

try to tell people it’s really hard to compete, because you’re getting ideas about how to

build a brand from mega companies who have millions and millions of dollars to invest in

just trying to implant one tiny little storyline into your head through advertising, we don’t

have that capacity to do that. What was the growth engine behind you selling $40,000 in

your pop-up shop?

Angela: It was just grit. That’s why I love the name of your podcast because it was grit.

You can imagine. That was a month after I gave birth. Even though I had a lot of creative

energy, you know what that is, you have children. That’s a lot of energy to do this. It was

really hard.

I made it sound really fun and exciting right now. But, the other side of the reality was

that it was depressing because I was not used to this. As a concert pianist I was used to

people coming to me and excited that I would come into town to perform for them and

line up in a long line to buy my CDs and get my autograph. I would say it was very

humiliating for me to become essentially the Macy’s sales girl.

I was out there saying, “Would you like to try some organic chardonnay cream?” Sales

was so hard for me because I had a lot of pride. That was the worst thing. I had so much

pride. I was sure people would just come to me because my creams were great. That’s

not true.

I went out there and had to fall on my face nine out of ten times. But the tenth time

someone would buy from me and that was enough of a rush to get me back out there

on the field to keep selling. I kept going out and developing what is now my system for

sales.

Todd: What was driving you to want to do that? Was there a grander vision or what?

Angela: I think it was perseverance. It was my background as a pianist of not giving up,

keep going. The bottom line is that I wish I had a vision back then. My vision was that I

had a big idea that Estee Lauder would buy my company one day. But I didn’t know

anything about how I would get there.

I don’t know why that’s been in my head and I don’t know if it’s going to come true. But

that was my vision back then. I was just going to do it. I didn’t know anything beyond

that. There were no particulars and no how’s. I just knew I had to sell a cream.

Todd: You brought up two kind of really important points I think every entrepreneur has

to get past when they are starting out: 1) Humiliation, and 2) Pride. A lot of times people

might be starting up a business venture after they’ve had a lot of success elsewhere. Now

they have to build up a new level of skill or a thicker skin with regard to getting “no’s”

like you were getting.

I would love for you to talk about the humiliation side of things and what that experience

was like for you. Then, what was it like for your husband while he was trying to possibly

emotionally support you through that time too.

Angela: The first question was around how I got over the humiliation. My big thing in

life is that some things have to be greater than something. Either humiliation is greater

or the vision is greater. Whichever is greater is the one you will walk toward. If you have

a problem with humiliation and perfectionism, depression, or whatever it is that holds

you back, everyone has their bag of things, that vision or desire to win or the desire for

something has to be greater.

I like to win. That woman across the way was my only vision. She was doing so well. I

knew I could do that well. I could do that too. Even if that’s the small vision, the bigger

vision was what I just shared with you but the small vision is that I could get to $1,000

a day too and I was going to get there.

That was bigger than my humiliation.

Todd: I think your second point is an even more important point than the grander vision.

I think there are a lot of people out there who stand on the stump and talk about finding

your “why”. Simon Sinek talks about it. But I actually very much disagree with it in the

very beginning of a business.

You can use all of these examples like Apple. Is Apple’s why bigger than just selling a

computer? It is now. But not when it frickin’ started. It’s just like you. I think it’s such a

good lesson to teach other people to find a local focal point, something that’s really close

to you. Yours was the girl right across the bazaar area from where you were selling your

stuff and beat her or be as good as her, maybe even.

Angela: Local focal point. That’s really good. I’m typing that out. I like that. I think what

you are saying, Todd, is what’s the next best. You and I both inspire a lot of entrepreneurs

to really get to the next level. I think what you are saying is something I subscribe to

wholeheartedly.

You have a big thing you want to do. You want someone to buy your company, you want

to raise funding, or whatever. That’s the bigger energy out there. But let’s focus on your

next best. Just do the small little thing that’s going to give you your next level.

For me it was just as small as what’s possible for me. I sought what was possible for this

woman. Her name is Melissa and I should send her this podcast afterward…

Todd: You should, definitely.

Angela: But just watching her and seeing how she was selling, I learned so much that

was such an amazing thing. I would watch small things. A customer was about to buy.

What was the body language? What is it that she’s saying? We were so close together

that we could almost hear it and I noticed that if she had the woman put on the handbag

and look in the mirror and turn around, she would say, “Imagine that you’re able to go

from work to your dinner date,” and she would most likely make that sale.

That taught me an important lesson of a story. A story sells. So I started wondering what

my story was. I think going with that local focal point of, “she can do it, I can do it too,”

was very inspirational for me.

Todd: What was your story? This is the hardest thing about selling services. If there is

one thing the great Billy Mays did (if you don’t know who Billy Mays is and you are

listening right now, he’s the great pitch man that’s done more infomercials than anybody),

he said demonstrability and demonstrating the product is the most important part of a

sales process.

In services, it’s hard to do that. We possibly do that sometimes with case studies or

testimonials. But with you, you actually had cream to demonstrate. So what was your

story that you would use?

Angela: By the way, everyone has a story. I think with services there are ways to express

it and we can talk about it later. But my story was very simple. I was a concert pianist. I

put this “natural” cream on my body before walking on stage and started breaking out

into hives in front of hundreds of people. That was horrifically humiliating.

That’s what inspired me to go into my kitchen and start making my own creams that

were free of toxins, paraben, and preservatives. That’s how I started. I created these

creams 1,000 times in my small Manhattan galley kitchen at the time and testing them

on my husband and friends. I even went to Whole Foods and asked people if I could test

on them and asked which one they preferred.

I became obsessed with creating the perfect creams. That is the story. That’s the overall

brand story. But I’m talking about when you are out there, what you said is the key…the

demonstration. I always say to our salespeople, the aestheticians in the brick and

mortars, you’ve got to involve all six senses of the person.

They need to see, touch, smell, everything. If you’re talking too much and you’re not

letting them experience it, then you’re not painting a story for them. They don’t care

about my story at the moment when they are going to purchase. What they care about…If

they just told me, for example, they have five kids, they would say, “Are you kidding me

Angela? I’m not going to be able to put on a serum and toner and take care of myself.”

So this is how I’m going to sell it to them, “When you’re crazy and the kid is throwing

macaroni and you’ve got to get them in the car to the school and you are rushed, just

take a moment for yourself so you can show up as a better mother.” They can mist it in

the car and put on the serum at the same time and they are good to go.

Once you paint the picture of plug and play, how the products can make their moment

or day a little bit better, it makes sense and they can see themselves doing it. They then

take it home. You’ve got to paint that picture for them.

By the way, that’s how you sell service. That’s how you sell everything. It’s all about

hearing what is going on with them and mirror the story back but tell them how your

product’s physical presence, the service’s physical presence in their life, is going to make

their life better.

If you can do that effectively then you’ve got a sale. You’ve made a difference for

someone. I don’t really like to call it a sale. It’s like you really served the person.

Todd: You are selling the transformation. Most people try to make their product the front

and center thing. That’s not me. I always tell people my product or service is the obstacle.

People want what’s on the other side of this thing I’m delivering to them. When I was

focusing only on sports they don’t want all of the mental toughness and peak-

performance coaching. What they want is to stand on top of the podium.

Angela: Totally.

Todd: You need to be able to tell the story of how that helps them get on the podium.

Angela: And what you said really is key. I think where people really falter, and I always

tell this to my sales staff and aestheticians in the store, if someone asks you for the price

always think of the price as if it has a last name too. You have to say the first name and

last name. It’s not the price, it’s “and it’s going to last you four months. A little goes a

long way.”

You talk about the benefit. You never say the price. You don’t just say the first name,

you say the last name too. That takes a lot of training to train people to think in terms of

how it will transform the skin, their life, getting on the podium, whatever it is. You’ve got

to talk about that transformation. That’s key to great marketing. Once you realize that,

your business can change.

Todd: I refer to it as the “so that” statement. You are putting this on in the morning so

that later in the day you don’t look tired, or whatever the thing is. Getting back to the

pride thing, your first day out there you were hawking your wares. You didn’t necessarily

like the way your booth was set up compared to someone else. What did you come home

and, if you could go back, what was that first night like where you were sitting across

from your husband drinking a glass of wine and what were you saying about your day?

Angela: Let me back up a little bit. I think it was the first day that my husband came

into the booth. I remember the feeling. I was standing behind the cash register. There

was no one in my little pop-up shop and I was feeling a complete drain of blood from my

body. I wondered what I had gotten myself into.

I said to my husband, “I just don’t want this to be a zero-dollar day.”

He is so supportive. He asked what we needed to do and wondered if we needed some

more color. He asked if he needed to build me a website (he’s a techy). I think at that

moment maybe I think a little bit like a man in that way. I just had to figure it out. I had

to get back to my drawing board. I couldn’t talk to anyone right now. I had to hunker

down my resources and my energy and just had to do something.

That night when I came home, yes he probably cooked me a great meal and told me to

relax. I probably stayed up all night working on something that would help the next day;

whether it was deciding my plan, what I would do, what I would do differently, maybe I

was reading a sales book, I was constantly trying to drink it in so that I could go back

and show up better the next day.

Todd: Do you think that’s a theory of your life? Do you think you are always focused on

constant improvement? You can’t be a world-class concert pianist and you can’t have

now built two or three successful brands and businesses…what do you think the motivator

is for you?

Angela: I think what you said earlier really resonates with me. As we evolve as business

people it really makes a difference. The motivator is constantly shifting, hopefully, as you

evolve.

When I first started it was, “Let me just be able to do this so I can have money in the

bank so that it won’t overdraft.” Then it fully became, “I need to pay my first employee.”

Then I wondered why “she” was making more money than me. I needed to start getting

paid. Every step I have a new one, “I have to make rent now. Now my rent’s $6,000 in

the West Village and I have to pay that.”

Then it became, “Somebody told me you have to make x10 rent so we have to get to

$60,000.” Everything started to become more and more and more. Then at some point

you get bored and wonder what it all means.

I do have a certain amount of success and wealth so I wonder what it all means. Then I

wonder what I am working toward now. I am giving paychecks to 30 people in my

company now and they can live and provide for their families. Isn’t this cool? Then how

can we improve their lives? How can we make the company culture better?

Then it becomes, “How can we affect more lives? How do we get the message out on a

broader scheme?” And then it becomes all about you and I donating money to She’s the

First. How can we help other charities? How can we help other companies?

It’s a long-winded answer to your question, but I think evolution is constantly shifting

and I think that’s what keeps it exciting and keeps us growing.

Todd: It’s a great answer because it’s nuanced. That’s exactly what I think life is. It’s so

nuanced. When people stand and say, “Success is all about this one thing,” I’m like, “No

it’s not. It’s anecdotal.” It’s probably because that may be what you think got you there,

but you’re exactly right. Your first day was all about just wanting to get some frickin’

money in your bank account.

I think that’s really important for people to hear. There are so many people out there

reading all of these purpose books and how to find your “why.” I’m like, “No, don’t find

your why.” Get some money in your frickin’ bank account and let that little snowball

evolve. Then from that you might find out what you are doing isn’t what you want to be

doing but at least you found that out.

You can’t find that out without taking action. You can’t find that out by sitting on a couch.

Angela: Let’s talk about that for a second. I am one that really believes in how you do

the small things is how you do the big things. I think finding your “why” is a question

that actually is important to evaluate even at the very beginning of your business. I call

it the source.

If you are cut off from that source, I think an interesting way to look at it, a perspective,

would be that it’s an always evolving “why”. If you say to yourself, “I don’t care what my

why is,” and you are building, building, building, then you are just cutting yourself off

from a really big, important piece of source. It’s going to become a habit and that’s why

I think figuring out what your “why” is, but not being married to that for so long and

allowing it to grow and breathe is really important, because all you do is become that

Asian kid who is running to win that next competition.

I feel that if I weren’t to get really plugged in to why I’m even doing something, it leads

to burnout. It leads to a lot of unhappiness.

Todd: I get that. But I think everyone has kind of created the umbrella that goes over

everyone’s head and said that the question on the umbrella is “why?” I disagree with

that. I think the umbrella that is hanging over us is our values. Our values are very

different than the “why.”

Angela: Let me think about that.

Todd: I think if you adhere to the values of what is important to you, you will have

multiple “whys.” I think asking yourself the question, “What’s my why” is such a narrow

focus for many people. I’ve talked to these people and I know the struggle they have.

But it’s such a narrow focus and I think we are nuanced.

Many people have many interests and to kind of govern it underneath one “why” is

difficult. But I think your values, like, “I value family, I value continuous growth, I value

exploration and exciting experiences and adventure,” is very different than asking myself

my “why.”

Angela: But what about this…Something I think is very important, we’re talking about

very conscious companies, we’re not talking about someone who’s selling ball bearings,

I’m talking about a conscious company like Whole Foods, Eileen Fisher, I don’t know if

you’ve heard of this really cool company and if you haven’t you should totally look into

it, Zingerman’s…

Todd: Of course.

Angela: I think people get lit by certain things. That’s a difference between great and

good. To tell you what I mean by that, I’ll give you a personal story. When my dad passed

away my mom sort of fell into a very understandable functioning depression. She had

three girls that she had to bring up on her own. She was Korean, she didn’t speak English

well. We were living in the middle of Ames, Iowa.

I remember her not being able to cope with the surmounting amount of bills. I was 13 at

the time and felt so much pressure as if it fell on my shoulders. I started a business for

her called Decadent Delights. The whole idea would be that she would bake cookies and

deliver them to all of the cafes in Ames, Iowa.

To me, that would solve the problem and once I left for college she could still take care

of my two younger sisters. I will never forget, when I baked all night and we sold cookies

to some bakery, my mom looked at me and said, “You’ve just raised my electricity bill

now,” and she went back to bed.

I’m sure Todd, if you look back in your life, and I’m sure everyone who’s listening can

look back on their life, we have the pivotal moments where something happens and it

just hits you at your gut. To me that is why I do what I do today. That’s why having just

a cosmetic company is not enough for me. If I just focused on selling the creams, I would

be like I was cutting myself off. My soul would be cut off.

Maybe it’s because I was a concert pianist all my life. I spent my time providing beautiful

music for audiences around the world and that was such a high endeavor for me. My life

had such a three-dimensional meaning and I cannot run business just to run business.

There has to be a deeper reason or else I’m going to run my fuel dry.

That thing is very important because that fuels the reason why I’m doing what I’m doing

today. Even that kind of awareness of the circumstances that happened in our lives…what

does it mean and how can I fuel my business and my life’s work to satisfy something that

happened to me that really touches me at my core and gets my passion running. It’s that

extra blood that is coursing through your veins that means something more versus a

person who is just sitting in the Chase Bank hating his or her life and doing whatever for

the sake of whatever.

It is just an awareness and consciousness of understanding the things that have

happened to us and why it happens to us. I’m not saying you have to be super sentimental

about it. I’m not saying you have to make your whole life go around that why. But it does

give my life an extra meaning that keeps me going when the shit hits the fan.

Trust me, the shit hits the fan a lot.

Todd: Totally. Honestly, it hits the fan more than it ever doesn’t, actually. But I have to

make the distinction. You are discussing that now and what I’m trying to reference for

people is that often times we don’t have the “why” at the very beginning. We’re just

trying to take a bunch of action because business, and the idea of our business or product

or service, needs to come face to face with the customer and the market.

Sometimes they will help us pivot. If you’re so driven and done all this work on your

“why” and you’ve built a product and service around it but no one wants it, you’ve wasted

a lot of time because I really want people who are just taking a bunch of action in the

beginning trying to find answers. Then, like Steve Jobs and Wozniak, their “why” evolved.

He wanted things to be beautiful. It didn’t start out that way at the beginning.

Angela: Right.

Todd: You bring up a great point. Often times, the elements of why we are doing things

stems back to our story.

Angela: Totally. And it gives it real meaning. I think it’s a difference between a

conscience company and one that’s not. I am a big proponent, I don’t think you should

spend years and years trying to figure out your “why.” Then you sit there and that’s all

you do and that’s ridiculous.

I do think if you come from that very grounded place of what you are doing, I think your

“why” and values, I’m calling it your Raison d’Etre, all this stuff; I think we all come from

the same place. I think we all agree that, you're calling it your values, I'm calling it Raison

d'Etre, Simon Sinek calls it his “why” - whatever. I think what we’re trying to do is get

people to think a little bit deeper and to use their businesses to do something good.

Because, you know what? That’s the beginning of sales. I agree with you - I think action

is so important. Collecting data is so important. That’s what I did in those first days, it

was just making the sale. But I was taking something good I created in my cream and I

believed in it. I really believed in it.

At the time, my “why” was that it would help your skin. It helped my skin, this will help

your skin. At the time there weren’t a lot of eco companies, five years ago. This was a

new thing. Sexy Green has arrived. That was my “why” at the time.

I think that helps you through the sales cycle because that becomes a bigger reason why

the customer needs it in their life. Then suddenly that’s what helps you get through the

humiliation. Frankly, what you said is so right, you have to actually go out there and fall

on your face and you’ve got to gain the experience. Success was born out of rejection.

You’ve got to get through a lot of rejections. You’ve got to get tough to it. You’ve got to

develop a thick skin. If you can’t do rejection now, trust me, you’re not going to be able

to build a business. You’ve got to get a tough skin.

Todd: If there is a mantra that I’m always repeating to people, it’s that exact thing

constantly. Some of it is born out of the fact that it’s confirmation bias a little bit. I’ve

been on the podium talking about mental toughness and resiliency and adaptability and

flexibility for almost 20 years now.

Working with ultra-high performers, those people that are at the Olympic level, everyone

has this story about Olympians that is not true. They don’t get paid anything to do their

sport, for one thing. So, they have to work full-time jobs while they are also putting in,

often times, eight hours of training in a day. That’s 16 hours and an athlete needs sleep.

Even your level, to get to be a world-class concert pianist, it wasn’t because you put in a

9-5, not even flipping close.

Angela: Are you kidding me? That’s a huge disconnect for me. Actually, that’s been my

biggest thing with employees. I just don’t understand this 9-5 mentality. I just don’t get

it.

Todd: This is perfect.

Angela: But I want to talk about Olympic athletes with you because I have studied.

Because I was a pianist and performed under pressure at peak performance, I’m very

highly interested in that topic. So, please promise me you’ll go back to that. I’ve studied

Olympic athletes and I just think mental visualization, all of that stuff is so delicious. We

have to come back to it.

Todd: We will. I’m just going to say, I find it fascinating, and I agree, I don’t understand

the 9-5. Yet, you are saying savor the success. How do you balance that?

Angela: People misunderstand what I mean by that. I have one person who was working

with me and she would say she needed to savor life. But she was failing at the job. In

essence she was a salesperson. I told her she had to get to the success in order to savor

the success.

I’m not talking about 9-5. I’m not about work/life balance. I’m more about work/life

integration and taking the moments to savor being fully present during those times. I’ve

worked really hard. You know when you work hard and you go through a workout and

you have climbed the hill (my husband likes to hike) and you go up the hike, then you

savor the success. Doesn’t that feel amazing versus sitting on the couch eating potatoes

or not doing your best or not achieving something you are proud of? Your “savor the

success” moment is a little bit more limp.

I don’t know if that explains it, but…

Todd: I’ve got it. It all makes sense in my head.

Angela: I believe that, of course, you need work/life balance. But what does that mean?

I don’t understand what that word means, balance. It’s just, are you on fire or are you

not? Just be on fire about your life.

Todd: We are so kindred spirits because I actually can’t stand the word balance. I’m all

for having another buddy in that group. We can go back to the Olympic stuff. What did

you want to talk about there?

Angela: I just want to talk about how Olympic athletes, the whole thing about training

and getting to the peak performance, how that is such a parallel to entrepreneurship,

don’t you think?

Todd: Totally. In fact, there are multiple studies on it as well on how the athletic mind

and the entrepreneurial mind overlap almost perfectly.

Angela: What do you think are the success factors that you can link between Olympic

athletes and successful entrepreneurs?

Todd: It’s a high threshold for risk. I think this is actually a bit of a myth with a lot of

entrepreneurs, everyone says that entrepreneurs take big risks. That’s a really dangerous

thing to tell people. I was listening to Daymond John who is on Shark Tank. He was doing

a speech once and he was talking about the same thing. He said, “I take good calculated

risks.”

That is an important distinction between calculated risks and big risks where you lose

everything. There might be moments where you might have to do that. It happened to

me. I did lose everything at one point in time. But the ability to take risks is a big thing

between the two, that is a big hallmark between them.

By that, I mean they are willing to risk looking strange or different to other people.

Olympians say “no” to a lot of social things that other people would be saying “yes” to

and entrepreneurs…I hate putting entrepreneurs in general up on a pedestal because I

don’t think everyone belongs there. Entrepreneurs are great at starting and we need

team members and partners to help finish the things we start so it’s a flip of the exact

same coin.

They both value risks and aren’t afraid to stand out. They both have high tolerance for

emotional highs and lows. They have a really big tolerance for emotional highs and lows.

That is one of the big hallmarks. They can live at the bottom of the ocean where it’s very

dark, alone, and cold. They can feel alone at many times.

That’s where this linkage between depression and entrepreneurship starts to come in. I

think it’s actually not depression. I think it’s just the description of people’s experiences

and them thinking there is something wrong with them because they are feeling this way.

I’m telling them it’s because they have the capacity to feel this.

Just because you are feeling this doesn’t mean you’re depressed. I think you have the

capacity to handle it. That’s why you are able to do really tough things. That doesn’t

mean I want to keep you there. I’m just saying that you do have the capacity. Your

rubber band’s emotional elasticity is just way higher. You’re not afraid to go to the edges.

I think that’s a really big one.

Olympians and successful entrepreneurs have a constant focus on improvement. That is

a hallmark, constant focus on growth and improvement is a big thing between the people

who really win at it, and I don’t mean people who stand on the podiums and get the gold

medals, I mean the people who enjoy their sport, enjoy the process of all the hard work

they have to do, they are just focused on the little things, slight little tweaks.

Angela: Micro growth. That leads to so much, especially when you’re at a very high level

of growth. A micro adjustment can be the difference between an amazing performance

and not.

Todd: Even you, just arranging your hands at a slightly higher point above the keys could

make a difference between you hitting the key and not hitting the key.

Angela: Totally. And if your thumb is a little tight you loosen your thumb a bit, make

your tongue relax. That is the difference between getting it or not.

Todd: It is so funny that you said the tongue because one of the things I started out in

sports, what I got known for originally and what I branded myself as, I know the biological

process for getting someone into the zone and flow state and having a relaxed jaw and

relaxed tongue is one of the hallmarks. You have to have that.

Angela: Totally. You know, that’s so cool because when I am studying Olympic athletes

one thing is the peak performance book. I don’t know if you know that one, but why are

the Russian athletes always able to perform under pressure and the American athletes

are not? There was a study and they use heavy relaxation techniques and visualization

techniques.

I did that whole program and I loved it. Every time I visualized two weeks before a

performance it was 1,000% better than if I actually practiced six hours a day. The one

thing is finding anchor moments that will anchor you in the moments of tough pressure

so I would always say to myself, “tongue.”

You have so many muscles in your tongue and immediate relaxation of the tongue relaxed

the eyeballs, which would release the stress, would release your neck, you jaw, and when

you are relaxed you do so much better.

Todd: Remember, in practice you are typically more relaxed so your muscle memory is

coinciding with the relaxed state. The moment you have the tension and stress your

muscles tighten up. Now you don’t have the flexibility that you used to have. That is a

total micro change. That, in and of itself, is a good example of making a micro change

having a big effect on the performance someone has.

Angela: And I think if we link it back to business, I think space is very important in

business to get to that relaxed state. So don’t have that heated conversation with your

employee when you’re upset. Take the moment because that’s not going to bring out the

best in either of you.

I think where Olympic athlete high performers have an instant moment where they need

to change something, entrepreneurs are more like marathon runners. It’s about

endurance. It’s the long haul.

Todd: Yet everyone is telling us it’s typically about the sprint itself. I am the person who

teaches the value of breaking things down into 90-day years and establishing a theme

for that 90 days. But, more often than not, it’s linked to some big, grander vision beyond

that, unless you’re in start-up mode.

In start-up mode you are just trying to figure things out.

Angela: Yeah, and test it out. That’s a way we have a lot in common.

Todd: Totally. This is such a great interview, Angela, by the way. I could talk to you

forever about this stuff. I am cognizant of time and I always ask people what I call the

final five questions. They are completely random. But, what TV show are you watching

right now that you’re obsessed with?

Angela: Oh my god, really? This is going to sound so terrible. There is a show in London

that I’m so obsessed with. I am so embarrassed. I am really embarrassed, but I’m just

going to tell you, just don’t tell anyone. It’s called, “Ladies of London.” I like it because

they are successful business women and they are just so cheeky and appalling. It is just

interesting to see a different culture.

Todd: What station is it on?

Angela: I think it’s Bravo. It is my mental candy.

Todd: Who is someone that you’ve met recently that inspired you?

Angela: There is a guy named Todd Herman.

Todd: You’re a peach.

Angela: You. I loved meeting the first founder, Tammy Tibbetts, you met her at the

Rock the World conference I just gave in October. I loved meeting Alexandra Wilson from

Gilt. I loved meeting Katrina Markoff, the founder of Vosges Chocolate. What is interesting

about Rock the World is that we don’t pay anyone to speak. They come because they

believe in women entrepreneurship. Women who are giving back just because they want

to help other women always inspire me.

Todd: It was such a well put together conference as well, so kudos. What do you wish

you were better at saying “no” to?

Angela: I think employee drama. I think I try to get in there and think about the personal

growth of everyone. They just need to worry about their personal growth and get back

to work.

Todd: Fair enough.

Angela: I need to get better at saying no to that.

Todd: What do you love about where you live?

Angela: I love my view. I have an amazing kick-ass view of the city. It’s my Prozac. I

love it.

Todd: What street are you on?

Angela: I’m on 97th and Columbus.

Todd: Okay. We’re on 96th.

Angela: I thought you moved downtown.

Todd: That was where we moved from. We were up there at 96th and Columbus and

now we are down here in Chelsea.

Angela: And I live on top of a Whole Foods so that makes me very happy.

Todd: That’s so funny because we lived in that building. Anyway, not to bore the

listeners…If you could have personally witnessed anything, what would you want to have

seen?

Angela: Martin Luther King’s speech, I Have a Dream.

Todd: Good one.

Angela: I love that.

Todd: Front row, of course. You wouldn’t be in the back. You would be in the front.

Angela: Yeah, I’d be up front carrying the torch with him. That’s amazing, I have a

dream.

Todd: That’s fantastic. Listen Angela, like I said, I could talk to you for hours. You’ve got

such a phenomenal energy. Where can people go to connect with you, Savor the Success,

and all that kind of stuff?

Angela: Savorthesuccess.com; and for skin care, omaroma.com; and just tweet me

@SavorTheSuccess.

Todd: Perfect. We’ll have all the links, of course, on the blog for this as well. Here’s what

I absolutely know will be a fact, I’m going to have people tweeting at us to get you back

on to do another interview because we’ve left a lot underneath the rocks that we could

have lifted up and picked at and taken a look at.

Angela: Anything for you, and likewise, I had a great time talking.

Todd: Cheers! Thank you so much, Angela.

Angela: Bye.

Todd: Bye bye.

That was one of the best interviews we’ve had on the show so far. I know we’re going to

have to bring Angela back for even more. She’s a total winner. Now, if you haven’t

already, don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast on iTunes. Just type in Grit ‘n’ Hustle in

the search and click the subscribe button. All the show notes, tips, links shared, and the

transcript are over at the blog at http://toddherman.me/episode20.

We have great social media stuff already and prepped for you to share over there. When

you do, just tag me @Todd_Herman and @SavorTheSuccess as well. There is a private

community on Facebook where more discussion happens behind the scenes, access to

myself, and requests for show guests occurs. Just type in toddherman.me/group in your

browser and you’ll be directed straight over to the community.

Alright my friend, let’s wrap this up and get you back into your day. Remember, there’s

no easy road, there’s no elevator to the top and there’s always a back story of Grit ‘n’

Hustle to any great achiever. Go out there and live a story worth being talked about. I’m

your host, Todd Herman, and I am signing off!

Show notes at: http://bit.ly/KimGrit

Links mentioned in this episode:

The Grit ‘n’ Hustle Blog

Om Aroma & Co

Savor Spa

Savor the Success

Savor Life magazine

Rock The World Conference

Angela on Twitter

Todd on Twitter

Grit ‘n’ Hustle Facebook Group

Also mentioned:

Kiehl’s

Estee Lauder

Bryant Park

Simon Sinek

She’s the First

Whole Foods

Eileen Fisher

Zingerman’s

Ladies of London

Tammy Tibbetts

Alexandra Wilson

Katrina Markoff

Vosges Chocolate