Direct Query

8/10/2019 Direct Query

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Direct Query: When do we give pressure equalization across valves?

S M KumarProcess Design onsultantI read that (1) SDV bypass or pressure differential is given if the pressure difference

is greater than 50% of the flange rating (2) hat is differential pressure used as Ihear 5 bar is used (!) "ill it reduce SDV actuator si#e ($) an e provide &anualbypass or actuated bypass is a &ust for pressure e'uali#ation (5) any other criteria

y response for your co&&ents1* +ressure e'uali#ation is given for all valves ,- 10. /SI !00 and above* So&ego for ,-3* I do not 4no about 50% of flange rating* sually hen the differentialpressure is ,-2 bar (!0 psi)* 6enerally a 23 ball valve 7 23 globe valve or 23 ball 789 is provided

2* "hy: "hen you open a valve to pressuri#e is d;s piping< gas ill flo at highvelocity* =he gas &ay carry &ill scale and dirt that ill cut or da&age the soft seat of

the valve* It ill increase lea4age or in>ure the tight shut off (=S9) ability of thevalve*

=o be considered and approved as a SDV there is a li&it on &a?i&u& lea4 acrossSDVs* If this rate is e?ceeded then you have to replace the SDV* /lloable lea4agerates are specified in /+I 1$@ and 1$* Aou &ay also li4e to readBBhttpC;;&yco&&ittees*api*org;standards;ecs;sc1;1g;Shared Docu&ents;8eference odes;S 8eport on /lloable Eea4 8ates*pdf,,

It is cheaper to replace the 89 and 23 ball valve usually used in bypass than thelarger &ain valve* oteC =o replace the &ain valve< you &ay re'uire a shutdon*

(!) +ressure e'uali#ation also helps to reduce the opening tor'ue of large valve andresult in s&aller actuators innon safety critical valves* FSDV ;GSDVs are si#ed forfull differential pressure even hen e'uali#ation is provided*

($) So&e co&panies provide &anual bypass (E;E9) to save &oney* 6ood practiceis to give auto&ated bypass; e'uali#ation*

(5) Special casesC SDVs in auto&atic startup duty as in co&pressor train inlet*8egardless of si#e< you need an auto&ated bypass here* =he bypass isprogra&&ed to open first and then the &ain valve ill open after the presetpressure differential is reached* =hen bypass SDV is autoclosed* "henever asignal is sent to close the &ain SDV< it is also sent to the bypass SDV to close itect rather than the location ofchec4 valve C9)* /nyay< I a& riting about the first 5 'uestionsC

(1) ot all SDVs ; &anual valves ith high differential pressure need pressuri#ationbypass* In order to identify these valves< you need to tal4 to co&pletion group to seeC"hat is the se'uence for nor&al start up and shutdon operations: "hat are thepossible &odes of operation hen on side ill be pressuri#ed hile the other side isdepressuri#ed*

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or each section of plant< you have to identify hich valve ill be used to pressuri#e thesyste&* Is it inlet or outlet isolation valve hich ill be sued to pressuri#e a particularsection: or e?a&ple< so&eti&e a &a>or part of the plant can be pressuri#ed fro&discharge side (pipeline already in operation)*

Jo big this section can be: "hat is the e?tent that can be pressuri#ed in one go: ore?a&ple< is it entire separation train and gas co&pression train at the sa&e ti&e or firstseparation train (slug catcher< first and second stage separators) ill be co&&issionedand co&pression train ill pressuri#ed hen separation train is operating properly:

/&ong these valves hich have been ere identified< the valves 3and larger /D ithdifferential pressure in e?cess of 15 bar &ay re'uire pressuri#ation bypass*

So pressuri#ation bypass is not re'uired henC

N Valve is larger than 3 but the differential pressure is less than 15bar* =his is becauseloer differential pressure &ay not create significant shoc4 ave travelling through the

pipe at sonic speed*

N =he differential pressure is higher than 15bar but the valves si#e is $3 and less* =his isbecause controlled opening (crac4ing a valve open) is easier ith a s&all valve than itha big valve and there is no &a>or difference beteen $3 &ain valve and 23 bypass valve*

N =he valve is larger than 3 ith differential pressure in e?cess of 15 bar< but there is acontrol valve donstrea& hich can be opened gradually after opening the valve*

N =he syste& contains only li'uid*

(2) 5bar is the differential pressure across pressuri#ation connection at hich logic

per&its operator to open the &ain SDV* In other ords< it is assu&ed that opening the&ain valve at differential pressure of 5*0 bar can not cause da&age to the donstrea&vessel internals< flanged connections< bellos etc*

(!) /s far as I 4no< the actuator of the SDV e'uipped ith pressuri#ation bypass issi#ed for 5*0 bar differential pressure* hec4 ith an instru&ent engineer*

($) If the isolation valve is SDV in S98 service< the pressuri#ation bypass should beSDV ith D+ indicator and auto&atic logic (hich per&its the &ain valve to be openedby operator)* 9therise< it can be &anual pressuri#ation bypass valve*

If the isolation valve is &anual valve< the pressuri#ation bypass should be &anual valve

7 D+ indicator ith high dif* pressure alar& to arn operator not to open the &ain valve*o Ei4e (2)

o lag as inappropriate

o Dece&ber 12< 2012

/toosa *< ooshin Jarandili4e this

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6/20

o>taba

Mo!ta"a #a"i"iProcess $ngineer at Wood %roup

Dear Saeidect docu&ent;specification to e?plain the bac4ground< here it is re'uired< hat thedetails are< etc*

If the lient does not have any criteria< then hatever is proposed by you should beacceptable as far as it &a4es sense*

=here is no other ay out*o Ei4e


o

Dece&ber 1!< 2012

Sa&pathSampath Kumar &

)pstream Process $ngineer at *echnip

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7/20

Dear /llects< client as4ing the process engineers sho so&epiping beteen 8V and SDV*

o Ei4e


o Dece&ber 1$< 2012

SaeidSaeid &ahimi Mo'rad

Senior Specialty Process $ngineer at (luor

I thin4 the correct arrange&ent for co&pressor discharge SDV hen there is anotherco&pression train in service isC

SDV -, hec4 Valve -, anual Isolation Valve (either D@@ or S@@)

hec4 valve can be flange to flange ith &anual isolation valve*

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8/20

=he reasons areC

N Fntire isolated section beteen SDVs can be depressuri#ed*

N If syste& is depressuri#ed due to an e&ergency condition< the trapped volu&ebeteen SDV and &anual valve ont &atter as the &a>or syste& volu&e has been

already &ade safe after depressuring*

If syste& is depressuri#ed for &aintenance< the trapped volu&e beteen SDV and&anual isolation valve can be depressuri#ed by te&porary opening SDV at the end ofdepressuring to get ride of the trapped pressure*

N hec4 valve ill be &aintainable ithout shutdon as there is isolation valvedonstrea&* It is a good practice to &ove chec4 valve to the upstrea& of last isolationvalve hen the line is connected to a header collecting;distributing a process fluid fro&;beteen different producers;consu&ers* / typical e?a&ple is produced ater collectionheader fro& separators< desaltres < other +" producers in &ultiple trains< hen chec4valve failure and &aintenance canaffect the hole plant availability*

N ost i&portantly< the shutdon valve can be tested hen the other train(s) is (are) inservice< this is especially i&portant during co&&issioning hen gas trains are put inservice in phases*

o Ei4e


o Dece&ber 1$< 2012

o>tabaMo!ta"a #a"i"i

Process $ngineer at Wood %roup

Dear Saeidors you can chec4 foryourselves* I can 'uote only hat is in public do&ain* See (1) //ChttpC;;*talis&anenergy*co&;upload;&ediaUele&ent;210;01;e&ergencyUshutdonUandUblodonUvalvesUUnaospcdpf002*pdfC//and

(2)@@ChttpC;;4ol&et#*co&;pdf;ess;+89KF=US=/D/8DSU/DUS+FII/=I9SUpipelineUfunctionalUspecificationUforUpipingUspecialUite&sU8ev01*pdfC@@ So it is unusualin &y orld to li&it FSDV;GSDV actuator si#ing to 5 bar*

/gain in &y orld 15 bar differential pressure is high* sually the d;s is at at&osphericpressure before pressure e'uali#ation* If upstrea& is 1 bar differential above or 2 barabsolute< you ill have sonic velocity d;s +1;+2,2< that can da&age the soft seat of theSDVs* I a& used to 2 bar to avoid lea4 in SDVs

o Ei4e


o Dece&ber 15< 2012

SaeidSaeid &ahimi Mo'rad

Senior Specialty Process $ngineer at (luor

I guess I need to e?plain &yself in short< as I donRt li4e to post a scary co&&ent hichfrightens the reader at first glanceC

1) I did not &ean that e need a valve for another valve or SDV &aintenance +uttingSDV as the last isolation valve hen there is a co&&issioning phases is not a goodpractice (rather acceptable) because co&&issioning activities (li4e lea4 testing< actuatortesting< FSD signal;reset testing< etc) &ay re'uire SDV to be opened and closed severalti&es hich is not favorable hen one side of SDV is under pressure* Aou can chec4ith co&&issioning or co&pletion in group*

2)I agree that chec4 valve failure &ay be rare* I did not &ean that chec4 valve needs ane?tra valve donstrea&* @ut if there is valve (and I bet W5% ti&es there is) it ould bebetter if it is &oved to the upstrea& of the valve* hec4 valve ill prevent bac4 flo

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12/20

regardless of its location us;ds of the valve*Kust t prevent confusion again< e are tal4ing about the i&portance of the location ofchec4 valves on the line connected to a headers collecting;distributing a process fluidfro&; beteen different producers;consu&ers*

!) =he need for S@@ or D@@ isolation donstrea& of SDV depends on the pro>ect

isolation philosophy* =he sa&e philosophy &ay or &ay not allo you to use the SDV inplace of S@@ or one of the isolation valves in D@@ arrange&ent*

$) /bout differential pressure< hat is destructive is not sonic (cho4ed) flo across thevalve* Sonic condition anyay ta4es place as long as the valve upstrea& pressure is&ore than double of donstrea& pressure regardless of valve si#e (103 &ain SDV or 23bypass)* It is orth &entioning that even the flo regi&e through 23 bypass valve andpressuri#ation line ill be alays at sonic (cho4ed) condition due to high differentialpressure*

It is i&portant to control the flo rate (passing through the valve in the choc4edcondition) and the resultant velocity in the &ain process line hich ill be function of D+

and valve si#e (throttling or flo controlling feature of the valve)* In other ords< thedesign purpose is it to li&it the velocity of fluid in the &ain process line hile highvelocity (sonic condition) in valve body or even bypass line in inevitable part of thepressuri#ation process* @y the ay< the criteria I e?plained above (15bar and 3) arepic4ed fro& SJFEE DF+ !1*!X*01*11 piping general re'uire&ents*

=his criterion is to prevent the da&age to vessel internals< flanged connections< elboetc* I have no clue about li&iting the velocity to prevent da&age to SDV soft seat due to&ill scale and dirt e?plained by Lu&ar*

I donRt thin4 that all designs should be the sa&e (single design fits for all purposes) but Istrongly believe that hat has been done in the past in not necessarily the best ourney* "e all &a4e &ista4es and at ti&es endup saying things that another person could interpret the rong ay based on hisperspective*

It is alays good to have a 89 in an auto&ated bypass and a globe valve in a &anualbypass or pressure e'uali#ation line* Fven if the seat gets da&aged< it is less e?pensiveto change a 2. valve*

Sonic flo issues see& to confuse so&e process engineers as I audit processcalculations or chair Ja#op* I rote a short note on &y observations in another foru& afe years bac4* Since I do not save &y &ails too &any on too &any topics if I couldlocate in that foru&Os archive< I ill sub&it here*

o Ei4e


o Kanuary 20< 201!

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19/20

S

S M KumarProcess Design onsultant

9ops< forgot to add* y sincere appreciation< ad&iration and salutes to you* I ad&ireyour technical s4ills< but only 1 in 100 ill have your strength of character to say hatyou rote* sually &ost of the& ill try to confuse the issue or denyQ others ill 4eepsilentQ so&e ill resent*

I ta4e this opportunity to appreciate the ti&e and efforts you put in to share hat you4no* / nu&ber of good process engineers do not shareQ so&e are hesitant afraid ofsaying rong things in public*

Aou are far ahead of &e here I as at your age* Leep going*o Ei4e (!)o lag as inappropriate

o Kanuary 20< 201!

Eearn Syan E*< Shya& +*and1 otherli4e this

Sha>iSha!i /"raham

Senior Power Station $ngineer at WorleyParsons 0man $ngineering ++Dear Saiedor difference beteen $3 &ain valve and 23 bypassvalve*.

I have a situation here a anual valve of !. has to be operated across !5$0 bardifferential pressure* an e operate this valve &anually under such high differential

pressure* =he fluid is ater*

heersi

o Ei4e


o W &onths ago

19
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20/20

Saeid

Saeid &ahimi Mo'radSenior Specialty Process $ngineer at (luor

Sha>i

Direct Query

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