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STATE OF ALABAMADEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATIONAND NATURAL RESOURCES

May 14, 2011

Pages 1 through 78

PREPARED BY:

Haislip, Ragan, Green, Starkie & Watson, PCSuite 505 - 500 Interstate Park Drive

Montgomery, AL 36109Phone: 334.263.4455

Fax: 334.263.9167E-mail: [email protected]

Web address: www.haislipragan.com

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DCNR Advisory Board Meeting May 14, 2011 May 14, 2011

334.263.4455Haislip, Ragan, Green, Starkie & Watson, P.C.

Pages 1 to 4

Page 1

STATE OF ALABAMA DEPARTMENT OF

CONSERVATION AND NATURAL RESOURCESADVISORY BOARD MEETING

May 14, 2011

* * * * * * * * * * * * TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS * * * * * * * * * * * *

Proceedings taken before Gayle F. Watson,

Certified Court Reporter, ACCR #573, and Commissioner

for the State of Alabama at Large, at Lakepoint State

Park, Eufaula, Alabama on Saturday, May 14, 2011,

commencing at approximately 9:00 a.m.

* * * * * * * * * * * * *

Page 2

1 BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT:2 Mr. Dan Moultrie, Chairman

Mr. Gunter Guy, Commissioner3 Dr. Bob Shipp

Mr. Joseph Dobbs4 Mr. Brock Jones

Mr. Grady Hartzog

5 Dr. Gaines SmithMr. John McMillan

6 Mr. Bill HatleyMr. Raymond Jones

7 Mr. George Harbin8 * * * * * * * * * * * * *9 INDEX10 CALL TO ORDER .............. ................ ...... 3

INVOCATION ....................................... 311 INTRODUCTION OF BOARD MEMBERS .................... 3

DISCUSSION OF PREVIOUS BOARD MINUTES ........ .... . 512 PUBLIC HEARING ................ ................ ... 6

Chauncey Wood, III .............. ............... 613 Pete Barber .............. ................ ...... 7

Avery Bates ............... ................ ..... 1114 Joe Young ................ ................ ...... 15

Louie Mattocks .............. ................ ... 2015 Ronny Wimberly ............... ................ .. 24

Jack Cropp ............... ............... ....... 2716 Wynnton Melton .......................... ....... 29

Susan Morrow ................ ............... .... 3317 David Tyson .............. ................ ...... 35

OLD BUSINESS ..................................... 4218 Motion .............. ................ ........... 51

NEW BUSINESS ..................................... 6519 Motion .............. ................ ........... 65

Motion .............. ................ ........... 6620 Motion .............. ................ ........... 74

SELECTION OF TIME AND LOCATION ............. ...... 7521

22

* * * * * * * * * * * * *23

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1 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: The May 14, 2011 meeting of

2 the Conservation Advisory Board will come to

3 order. I would like to welcome everyone to

4 Lakepoint State Park, and the board is glad

5 you're able to be here today. The

6 invocation will be given by Mr. Bill

7 Hatley.

8 MR. HATLEY: Let us pray. Our Father, we're

9 thankful for this day and all of its glory.

10 We pray that you'll bestow your richest

11 blessings upon this group, upon this board,

12 and all those who are gathered. We pray now

13 that you will watch over to lead, guide and

14 direct us. We ask these things in Jesus

15 Christ's name and for his sake. Amen.

16 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank you, Mr. Hatley.

17 The next order of business is the

18 introduction of the board members. I first19 would like to introduce our Commissioner of

20 Conservation, Mr. Gunter Guy. Next, I'd

21 like to introduce our Assistant

22 Commissioner, Curtis Jones. Curtis.

23 MR. HATLEY: Stand up, Curtis.

Page 4

1 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Next, I would like to2 introduce Alabama's Agricultural3 Commissioner that is ex-officio on this4 board, John McMillan. Commissioner.

5 Our other ex-officio member here today6 is Dr. Gaines Smith from the Alabama7 Extension Service.8 DR. SMITH: Thank you.9 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Dr. Smith.10 Next, I'd like to let the district11 members of each -- of the board give their12 name and the district for which they13 represent.14 Mr. Harbin, if you'd start.15 MR. HARBIN: I'm George Harbin, and I represent16 the Fourth District.17 MR. RAYMOND JONES: I'm Raymond Jones. I18 represent Congressional District Number V.19 MR. HATLEY: I'm Bill Hatley, and I represent20 District Number I.21 MR. HARTZOG: Ray Hartzog, District Number II.22 MR. BROCK JONES: Brock Jones, District VII.23 MR. DOBBS: Joey Dobbs, District VI.

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1 DR. SHIPP: Bob Shipp, District I.

2 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank you for all the board

3 members that are here today.

4 The next order of business is the

5 approval of the March 12th, 2011 Advisory

6 Board Minutes. Are there any changes to the7 minutes?

8 MR. RAYMOND JONES: Mr. Chairman?

9 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Yes, sir, Mr. Jones.

10 MR. RAYMOND JONES: The minutes that we received

11 in our packages were incomplete, and we need

12 to -- I move that we try to approve the --

13 get an updated -- a complete set and approve

14 them at our next meeting in February.

15 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Okay. I had just talked with

16 Robin. About half the board had received,

17 it appears, incomplete minutes. And we

18 don't need a motion. I'll just postpone the19 approval until the next meeting.

20 MR. RAYMOND JONES: Yes, sir.

21 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Very good. Thank you.

22 COMMISSIONER GUY: A technical error.

23 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Okay. All right. The next

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1 order of business is the public hearing.2 When your name is called, please come to the3 microphone and give your name, subject,4 and -- and the topic you wish to speak on.

5 I'll remind you that you may only speak at6 the time you are called and that any7 interference will not be tolerated.8 The first speaker will be Chauncey9 Wood.10 MR. WOOD: Mr. Chairman, Board Members, people in11 the audience, I came to say thank you for12 everything that the Wildlife and Fisheries13 and Chief Hunter with State Lands and14 everyone else for the Department of15 Conservation and Natural Resources has done16 to help with this tornadic damage.

17 As president of the Alabama18 Association of Volunteer Fire Departments, I19 have a thousand and twenty volunteer fire20 departments and over 32,000 volunteer21 firefighters. I had nine volunteer fire22 departments destroyed, five damaged.23 The Organized Seafood people, I called

Page 7

1 on Ernie. The very next day they were in2 Tuscaloosa, Tuscaloosa EOC, feeding game3 wardens, state lands enforcement officers,4 marine police, volunteer firefighters, my5 folks with the Department of Corrections,

6 where I make my living, revenue people, ABC7 enforcement officers, volunteer firefighters8 and EMS personnel.9 We thought what happened in Enterprise10 was horrific. Folks, I was in Vietnam.11 I've seen a war zone. Hackleburg and12 Tuscaloosa were something I've never seen13 before. And I came to say thank you,14 appreciate all y'all's hard work. The15 volunteer fire departments support Forever16 Wild. We're going to stand behind y'all,17 behind Commissioner Guy. Anything that

18 y'all need from us, we're at your service.19 Again, thank you. Thank you all.20 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank you, Mr. Wood.21 The next speaker will be Pete Barber.22 MR. BARBER: Good morning, Mr. Chairman,23 Commissioners. My name is Pete Barber. I'm

Page 8

1 the president of the Alabama Seafood2 Association. I'd like to speak a little3 bit -- It's kind of interesting --4 You have a folder in front of you, and

5 I'm just going to go through the folder will6 be basically the body of what I'm going to7 say.8 It's ironic. Here we are March 14th,9 2011, Eufaula, Alabama. There's a mayor in10 Orange Beach that has a problem with nets on11 the beach. We addressed those issues and12 his concerns then, I think, very well. I13 think the conservation department, with14 their scientists and with their enforcement15 people, are doing a good job. The time16 closures, the area closures and everything,17 keep the interface down to a minimum.18 A couple of the concerns, if you'll go19 through -- pardon my editorial comments with20 the -- on the front -- but if you'll look at21 a chart, one of the reasons cited by Mayor22 Craft and Mayor Kennon was they were23 concerned about the effect of net fishermen

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1 on tourism. But if you'll look at that bar2 graph, it breaks it up into seasons. And it3 polled -- that's Herb Malone's group that4 ran that poll. But it polled visitors to5 Orange Beach and Gulf Shores as to whether

6 they were coming back next year. And by 47 or 5 percentage points, the highest group8 and the best season is in spring, which9 incidentally coincides with the time when we10 have the highest activity in the net11 fishing. So I don't see how that we're12 actually hurting. You might make the13 argument we need net fishing in the other14 seasons to raise that up, but I wouldn't go15 that far.16 Another concern that was voiced was a17 safety issue. We had an incident -- it's a

18 one-time incident -- where three boats at19 night had problems with some severe weather20 and ran aground. And, like I say, it was an21 isolated incident. There's a certificate of22 appreciation to our association from the23 search and rescue people for one particular

Page 10

1 incidence where our fisherman went out and2 aided in the recovery of an unfortunate3 incident when we had some lost boaters.4 That's the value of having

5 professionals on the water that know the6 water and know the vagaries of it. And we7 stand ready -- as Chauncey said with the8 disaster area up north, we stand ready to9 help anybody. We've gotten a lot of help10 from other people.11 Interestingly enough, along that same12 line, there was a fatal accident on the --13 on the Gulf, a pier lowered several years14 ago. The first person to report that 911 to15 the conservation officer was Darla Baird,16 who's a gill-net fisherman.17 So, basically, what I guess I'm saying18 is the issues that have been brought forth19 have been dealt with. And we're blessed in20 the state of Alabama. We have outstanding21 marine resources. They're managed well by22 professional men and women, scientists and23 enforcement folks. And it's to all of our

Page 11

1 advantages. We should be thankful.2 I'll answer any questions someone3 might have.4 CHAIRMAN. MOULTRIE: Does the board have any5 questions?

6 (No response.)7 MR. MOULTRIE: Thank you, Mr. Barber.8 The next speaker will be Avery Bates.9 MR. BATES: My name is Avery Bates. I'm10 vice-president of Organized Seafood11 Association. We just want to let y'all know12 we've been on the firing lines on -- in13 Tuscaloosa and several other areas with the14 disaster. I'm so proud of our commercial15 fishermen who produced a lot of fresh mullet16 that come out of a gill net, a lot of fresh17 shrimp come out of a troll, just a lot of

18 fresh seafood to make gumbos, fried fish,19 jambalayas. We didn't only feed fire and20 rescue. We fed injured people, destitute21 people, people with nothing but bare lots,22 and they appreciated it. We fed people in23 Montgomery, but these people here was in

Page 12

1 dire need.2 Glad to be a part, glad to be a3 commercial fisherman. And I want you to4 know, these shrimpers that went out through

5 the neighborhoods and brought dinners to6 people that couldn't come, everybody in the7 state ought to be proud of them. It's a8 wonderful thing to see people helping9 people. We saw them in Katrina come to help10 us. It's a blessing to be able to go help11 them, not a chore. But you just ought to12 have saw what we saw.13 But, y'all, thank you for your14 response for the state. I know roads had to15 be cleared. Every department took part.16 Some areas you couldn't get to. We need to17 be a little faster, a little more not18 worrying about overtime in some of these19 places.20 But it's a major thing when you see21 tornadoes like we had. We get warning from22 hurricanes. We can get back. These people23 didn't have proper notification or just

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Pages 13 to 16

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1 didn't take heed. It's a wonder a thousand2 people in just Tuscaloosa alone; Hackleburg,3 gone. But y'all have heard all this, but4 the eye, to see, is quite astounding.5 We went to Enterprise. I was part of

6 it, Pete and them. And it was bad in7 Enterprise a few years back. But, like8 Chauncey said, you cannot believe what a9 200-mile-an-hour wind can do to a brick10 home, a metal place. It don't make no11 difference. A trailer.12 I've witnessed and talked to people,13 eyewitnesses. And I could tell you for14 hours, even from fire and rescue, this was15 something that I had never witnessed in my16 life, something that many people much older17 than me has never witnessed. And as you

18 travel through Alabama you see tear -- I19 mean, tornado after tornado ripping, tearing20 trees two men couldn't reach around and,21 yet, people crawling out from under rubble.22 The good Lord had to have his hand on these23 people. I could tell you stories, and it

Page 14

1 would just make you -- tears come to your2 eyes.3 But we were so blessed to be able to4 help these people. I know it was a blessing

5 to them, but they were the blessing to us.6 And we want to continue to help these7 people.8 And just want y'all to know, us9 commercial fishermen, a lot of people will10 come down on us and talk about us on the11 water, but the bounty of the sea has helped12 a lot people this past week. Keep us on the13 water. Keep us fishing. Don't run us out14 of the bays and the gulfs and the streams.15 Because that fish belongs to everybody, and16 we want to keep providing that -- not for17 Montgomery, but the whole State of Alabama18 and this country. We're good citizens.19 Keep in mind, we're not bad, as some people20 would have you believe.21 John, appreciate the Department of22 Agriculture. Y'all have had some23 devastation, and you've got a long road.

Page 15

1 Commissioner Guy, just some of these2 backwoods people your game wardens assisted,3 I know, and your police. Y'all was truly a4 blessing. But keep up the hope. I know5 it's -- it's going to take a while to heal

6 the hearts and the minds.7 MS. NUMMY: Time.8 MR. BATES: Thank you.9 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank you, Mr. Bates.10 The next speaker will be Joe Young.11 MR. YOUNG: Commissioner Guy, Chairman Moultrie,12 Members of the Board, Biologists,13 Enforcement Officers, I went to tell you how14 much we appreciate your time and effort put15 forth for the hunters and fishermen of16 Alabama. I run Young's Big Mouth Shop.17 We're the oldest bait shop on the lake. We

18 get a day-to-day report on what's going on.19 We are faced with an issue of the20 drastic rise and fall of the lake level21 which has a direct impact on the breeding of22 fish this time of year. We had this issue23 back in the middle '70s. And somewhere

Page 16

1 somehow some political force came forth to2 meet with the Corps, and we got this issue3 leveled out to where we did not have this4 drastic change in water level.

5 The water level went from 190 in five6 days to 186. That's a four-foot drop. And7 the fish have to adjust. They're ready to8 lay their eggs and they're in shallow9 water. And then the bottom drops out from10 under them. They regress back to where a11 comfort zone is. And then the next thing we12 know the water is back up again. And we13 can't have these drastic water levels during14 the breeding season for the fish.15 Another issue I want to bring to mind16 with you I'd like you to consider, in '97 we17 had quantity deer in Barbour County, we did18 not have quality deer. It took us 10 years19 to get a quality deer program in Barbour20 County. We're now moving to the other side21 of the page. We're starting to have our22 quality deer. Of all the deer we processed23 this year, we had more --

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Pages 17 to 20

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1 a-hundred-and-fifty-plus deer processed, and2 we did a-hundred-and-fifty mounted. It does3 work.4 We need to look -- We need y'all to5 consider something to do about our bass,

6 because now we have quantity bass in Lake7 Eufaula. We do not have the quality we had8 from the '70s to the late '80s. And all the9 fish go back in the lake. We got a big10 tournament going on today. 95 percent of11 those fish caught will go right back into12 the lake. We have another spawn the next13 spring. We've got that many more on board.14 And we would like to see something15 done to help us move back to the quality16 fish we used to have. If you came here in17 the mid '70s and you were going to fish for

18 three days, I guarantee you you'd catch a19 five-pound-or-better bass in three days of20 fishing. You look at the numbers caught21 today in this tournament and see how many22 fish you have over five pounds.23 I appreciate your time and effort.

Page 18

1 Y'all come back to see us.2 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank you, sir.3 Commissioner Hartzog, since this is4 your district, do you want to -- do have any

5 comment on that?6 MR. HARTZOG: Yeah. Joe is right. The size7 limits are going down. And, you know,8 Eufaula put in the 12-inch bass limit a9 while back to help improve. But, as Joe10 said, the -- with all these tournaments11 going on and the fish being returned, you12 know, it's just like in any pond13 management. You need to take X number of14 pounds of fish out per year in order to15 maintain the quality fishing. And so, you16 know, the Fisheries, you know, I wish would17 look at the possibility of what we need to18 do to do that.19 I think the lake level was a -- it20 happened at a wrong time. But with all the21 rains that were coming from the tornadoes22 and all and the rains they anticipated, I23 think in anticipation of that heavy rainfall

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1 they drew the lake down in anticipation of,

2 you know, collecting additional -- a lot of

3 additional water that didn't end up coming

4 to us. So, you know, I wish the --

5 The Corps has been real good at

6 keeping it full pool. They've kept it at

7 full pool, Joe, for, what, the last two

8 years, three years? But, like I said, they

9 drew it down in anticipation of

10 floodwaters. Because several years back we

11 had a massive flood, in fact, washed away

12 some houses and all because of not dropping

13 the lake down soon enough. So hopefully the

14 Corps will get it back up to 190.

15 MR. BATES: Commissioner --

16 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Go back to the microphone.

17 MR. BATES: I'd like to make one --

18 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Come back to the microphone,19 please, sir.

20 MR. BATES: I'd like to make one more quick

21 comment. My youngest son, Cody, has a

22 fisheries degree from Auburn. And he also

23 guides on the lake, and he -- he has a great

Page 20

1 knowledge and does pond management and so

2 forth. And he informed me that lately some

3 of the fish he's been catching have got

4 sores and all on them. And he brought to my

5 attention that this is some kind of disease,6 and I can't tell you the name of it. But

7 the biologists may want to look into this

8 and see if this is not something we're

9 fixing to have to deal with like the big

10 die-off we had several years ago.

11 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Corky, have y'all had any

12 reports of that?

13 MR. PUGH: No.

14 MR. BATES: If I could give you a card and you

15 would call Cody, he can talk with you more

16 intelligently than I'm able to.

17 MR. PUGH: That would be great.18 MR. BATES: Thank you.

19 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank you, sir.

20 The next speaker will be Louie

21 Mattocks.

22 MR. MATTOCKS: Good morning, gentlemen. My name

23 is Louie Mattocks. I'm from Salem, Alabama,

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Pages 21 to 24

Page 21

1 on the Lee County/Russell County line, and2 I'm a rabbit hunter. The topic that y'all3 have been dealing with lately is on the4 extension of deer season. And I know that5 y'all have requested more time for more

6 information to be gathered.7 I looked at the letter that Mr. Guy's8 office was kind enough to forward to me that9 was read at the last meeting. And I looked10 it over. And from what I can see is that11 it's only going to be marginal help to the12 deer hunters. And not only is it going to13 be marginal, but it could be detrimental to14 the deer -- the quality of the deer herd.15 And I realize this is -- this is preliminary16 information and that you'll be gathering a17 lot more.

18 What I'd like for y'all to consider is19 to roll back the end of deer season to the20 15th of January, give them another couple of21 weeks at the beginning. That would22 encourage more small game hunting.23 And we're -- we're fast dying. We're

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1 facing a problem here in Alabama. And the2 escalating cost to lease, even for the deer3 hunter, is getting to the point it's driving4 many of the low income and middle income out

5 of being able to hunt. When you lose these6 people, you're going to be looking at7 anti-hunters in 25 years, 50 years, as the8 kids move away from it.9 And we're going to have a serious10 problem because they'll take the decisions11 away from the CAB eventually. I hate that.12 I think we need to have the decisions made13 by men that look at all sides of the14 situation, but I fear that we're losing this15 battle. I don't know what the solution is.16 I just -- And I know y'all are aware of it,17 but I just wanted to make that statement.18 The only other thing I -- I also19 wanted to mention was on the subject of20 baiting for deer, shooting over bait. I --21 Like I said, I'm a rabbit hunter. I have no22 dog in the fight. But from what I can see,23 y'all may as well go ahead and allow it or

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1 you need to up the fines drastic.

2 Now, you go into any Piggly Wiggly

3 during deer season and you'll see corn by

4 the pallet loads in nice little camouflage

5 bags. And that's every Piggly Wiggly, every

6 Winn-Dixie, and Walmart. It goes on and on

7 and on.

8 And a lot of them don't care. So you

9 either got to get serious about the

10 enforcement, up the fines and penalties, or

11 you may as well legalize it.

12 That's all I have to say. Thank you.

13 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank you very much. I'm not

14 going to respond on the supplemental feeding

15 side. But on the extension of season, there

16 is a current PETA study in place being done

17 by the Department. Anything that would

18 be -- any seasons that would be set without19 that data would be irresponsible. That data

20 will help guide that. Until that data is

21 totally in, I think that issue should be

22 closed, and I think that's the board's

23 opinion. As of the last meeting we saw it

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1 had that opinion. And until we get that

2 report --

3 Corky, that's ongoing now; isn't that

4 correct?

5 MR. PUGH: Correct.6 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Those decisions really should

7 be by biological data, not by whims or when

8 somebody wanted to hunt. That's going on

9 right now. Thank you very much.

10 The next speaker will be Ronny

11 Wimberly.

12 MR. WIMBERLY: Thank you, gentlemen. My name is

13 Ronny Wimberly. In February of 2007 and in

14 Montgomery, one of the members stated that

15 85 to 90 percent of the bucks taken in his

16 area were two-and-a-half years of age or

17 less. He told how he arrived at that18 number. I went home and I conducted my own

19 study and I busted 90 percent. I have

20 busted 90 percent to date.

21 The three-buck law cannot be enforced

22 as it stands. Even if it could be enforced,

23 it still allows immature bucks to be taken

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1 out of the state.2 From time to time a brief conversation3 blows through the room about legalizing4 bait. We need to get off of it, get this5 legalized. Reason number one -- and I feel

6 that the biggest majority of the people that7 are being penalized are the managers, people8 that are feeding tons that only under an9 extreme circumstance would they ever think10 about taking an immature buck off of their11 property.12 Reason number two: Entirely too much13 emphasis is going on trying to keep -- catch14 people hunting over bait. We need to move15 that emphasis over to a new law that16 restricts age and ramps up the enforcement17 of the numbers law that is already in

18 place. I don't know whether it's a tag19 system or, you know, whatever, but, you20 know, we -- we have got to enforce this.21 I mean, there's -- there's still 10,22 15 bucks -- small bucks, immature bucks23 being taken out of my area, you know, by

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1 individuals, not by clubs. I mean2 individuals. So, you know, we -- we need to3 ramp this enforcement up on this law and add4 some type of age restriction to it and I

5 mean stringent enough that it gets into6 mature bucks. Otherwise, our -- our quality7 is going to remain, you know, where it has8 for years.9 You know, we have big landowners that10 have supplemental feed. We have big11 landowners that have -- you know, that let12 the young ones walk. And they have great13 quality deer on their property. Why the14 state can't learn from these people instead15 of penalizing them with a penalty -- with a16 ticket when they catch them sitting in a17 shooting house over a supplemental feed18 station where they're using it for a19 management tool.20 You know, it -- it beats me. I21 just -- I think we need to look at the22 number of tickets that were written for deer23 hunting over bait versus the number of

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1 tickets that's written for a three-buck2 violation. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it. I3 think a vivid picture will be painted as to4 where the priority is being put. We need to5 move that priority over to a law that

6 restricts age or antler restriction and also7 ramp up the enforcement of the numbers.8 Thank you.9 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank you, Mr. Wimberly.10 The next speaker will be Jack Cropp.11 MR. CROPP: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Board,12 Mr. Guy, Mr. Pugh, Members of the13 Conservation Department, my name is Jack14 Cropp. I'm from Pell City in St. Clair15 County, District II.16 Gentlemen, I don't -- to me, it's no17 different putting corn in a feeder and wait

18 on a deer to come get it than it is to plant19 a clover plot or put out a trophy rock or20 some other legal attractant and set there21 and wait on them to come get it and shoot22 them. So I'd like to see y'all legalize23 corn same as the other baits.

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1 You know, the crossbow been -- been2 legalized now for several years, and all of3 the bad things that the anti-crossbow people4 predicted that was going to happen didn't

5 happen. There wasn't a great surge in folks6 night hunting. There wasn't a great surge7 in people hunting from public right-of-way.8 And there wasn't a big surge in folks9 shooting their fingers off and their thumbs10 off and maiming their hands. It just didn't11 happen. And I'd like to see y'all give the12 crossbow the same status as any other13 archery equipment.14 You know, Dr. Strickland, who's not15 here today, but he said the arrow wasn't16 designed to kill a turkey. But if you go to17 his Website, you can see him not only shoot18 a turkey with an arrow, but he'd kill that19 sucker, too. So I'd like to see y'all take20 that restriction -- that turkey-hunting21 restriction off the crossbow so the rest of22 us can enjoy that without going out of state23 to do it.

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1 Thank you.2 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank you very much,3 Mr. Cropp.4 The next speaker will be Wynnton5 Melton.

6 MR. MELTON: Thank you, Mr. Moultrie. I always7 enjoy coming to the meetings. I believe8 this is either 40 or 41 years -- this is the9 first time I've tore down a microphone --10 that I have been to at least one of the11 advisory board meetings. I've seen this12 table change many times, but the13 responsibility doesn't change nor the14 respect that I have for each of you. And15 the job that you do doesn't change either.16 Chairman Moultrie, I think, kind of17 resolved the main question I had. I -- This

18 is the first meeting I've made this year.19 And I was concerned about my dog-hunting20 days if we did start shuffling the season21 around a little bit.22 If you'll look, on an average the bow23 hunter gets about a hundred and eight days a

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1 year. The muzzle loader gets about 72. The2 rifle -- center-fire rifle hunter gets about3 69. We -- Organized dog clubs get about4 54. If you're a working man, you cut that

5 back, you're really aren't getting to hunt6 very much.7 So I scratched around yesterday coming8 up with that 20,000 -- $21,000 land lease,9 checking my dog food bills, all that goes10 along with that. It kind of makes you11 wonder what you're doing. So we just do not12 need to lose any additional days.13 I speak only for the area in which I14 live. We're on the permit system. It isn't15 perfect. Not every single person is going16 to be satisfied -- Well, they'll never be.

17 You're never going to get that to -- to18 happen. But I promise you that the problems19 associated with deer hunting with the hounds20 in southeast Alabama is down by 90 percent.21 The road hunting is just gone.22 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: That's because of the permit23 system?

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1 MR. MELTON: I don't know that for a fact, but I2 do think that it is putting more3 responsibility back onto each club. I do4 think that there's a change in the mentality5 of a lot of the dog hunters. And they're

6 beginning, I hope and think, to respect the7 people that are around them a little more.8 But it just -- it just isn't happening9 anymore.10 You will have some problems with dog11 trespassing. They're going to get away from12 you once in a while. But the road hunting,13 which all through these years has been the14 issue of major concern, is just about gone.15 Just about really -- And that -- I really16 do -- in all these years, I spent more time17 trying to keep honorable and ethical dog

18 deer hunting the last 40 years than I have19 hunting. Now, that's the truth. I've spent20 less and less -- less time in the woods, but21 I think it's very -- very important that we22 preserve all of our traditions.23 And just to tell you real quickly --

Page 32

1 and I know you don't want to hear all these2 personal stories. But a young man, the3 first year went to the -- to the permit4 system, he would get on his four-wheeler and

5 he was going to shut us down. And he'd go6 to everybody around there every time we'd7 start hunting. Right now he's a valued8 member of our hunting club, enjoying it,9 having a lot of fun.10 Twenty years ago, 25 years ago, one11 young man that was walking around with a12 petition trying to stop dog deer hunting in13 Geneva County is breeding and selling14 Bluetick hounds right now. His -- His son15 is an avid dog hunter.16 Things cycle. Things cycle.17 Interests cycle. There's an upswing in the18 interest of young people hunting with19 dogs -- and, again, you don't have time to20 hear all this -- but they get a little tired21 just sitting out there. There is excitement22 getting out there with their buddies. And I23 just want to keep these days.

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1 Really and truly, the way it is now

2 with everything so contained within your

3 hunting club, I don't see a whole lot of

4 reason we don't get those other 15 days, to

5 tell you the truth. But we certainly don't

6 want to lose -- less than 54 of them.7 I'm going to leave you with this

8 comment. I read this the other day. I

9 think common sense -- common sense should

10 prevail in everything that we do. And I

11 read a definition of common sense. It says,

12 common sense is the ability to recognize the

13 truth. The ability to recognize the truth

14 amongst all you hear, all you see, all the

15 pressures that you receive. The ability to

16 recognize the truth and then the courage to

17 do the right thing.

18 Thank you very much.19 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank you, Mr. Melton.

20 The next speaker will be Susan

21 Morrow.

22 MS. MORROW: Good morning, Chairman, Members of

23 the Board. I'm Susan Morrow. I think y'all

Page 34

1 all know who I am by now. I'm from Mobile2 County. I'm a dog deer hunter and a stalk3 hunter.4 And I'm here again to ask -- we have

5 39 management areas, and only four we are6 allowed to dog hunt. And I would like to7 see more dog days on our management areas,8 especially with the economy the way it is9 now.10 Most of our people that hunt our11 management areas are families, and that's12 the only place that they get to hunt. And13 the kids, their attention span for still14 hunting is not long at all. And they love15 the hunts because they get to socialize,16 catch the dogs, and it's a big thing for17 them. And a lot -- most of the kids are18 taught to take care of their own dogs. So19 it's -- it's a good learning tool for them20 for responsibility and everything. And I21 invite all of y'all to please come to one22 and see how much fun the kids and us big23 kids get to the have, too. We love it.

Page 35

1 So if y'all would please consider this2 and maybe think about opening up another3 management area for dog hunting, it would be4 very well appreciated.5 Thank you.

6 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank you, Ms. Moore.7 The next speaker is David Tyson.8 MR. TYSON: Board members, Mr. Chairman, my name9 is David Tyson. I'm the president of10 Abbeville Hunting Club. We're one of the11 oldest hunting clubs in Henry County. We12 had a senior member just pass away about two13 months ago who was one of the instigators to14 get the deer put in Henry County back in the15 '50s.16 We have been really trying hard to get17 along with our neighbors. We've been

18 hunting under the permit system for about19 six years, and we've only had one violation20 in the past six years. And a lot of it is21 due to we've gone to these training collars22 where we have some control of the dog, and23 it has really been a help to us. And I'd

Page 36

1 like to see a lot more dog hunting clubs2 start using some kind of device like this to3 control your dog.4 I have a pack of six dogs. I've been

5 hunting for 25 years. And this is a6 different world being able to control your7 dog. Our dogs I'm not going to say don't8 get off of our land. We hunt about 5,0009 acres of land. Once in a while they get10 off, but it doesn't take us no hour and a11 half to get them back to the truck. I can12 have my dog back in the truck in 1513 minutes.14 I call these here c'mere collars. So15 whenever you get ready to -- If your dog16 gets across the road on somebody else's17 property and you want them back, you can get18 them back, you know.19 And I'd -- I'd be willing to put on a20 seminar for the dog hunters that's21 interested to show them how to train their22 dog and -- if they're -- if they're willing23 to invest a little bit of money in -- in

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1 these shocking collars, we call them, or2 training collars. They also have a warning3 tone on them. You don't have to shock them4 to get them to come back. You can hear that5 warning tone and make them come back.

6 And it's really been a blessing to7 us. We get along with our neighbors so much8 better. We've got so much more control of9 our dogs. Right now 99 percent of our10 members that own dogs has a set of these11 shocking collars, and it's been -- really12 been a blessing to us. And I'd like to see13 more clubs go to some kind of device to help14 control their dogs. It's -- It's given the15 people that's really working hard trying to16 make this permit system work -- kind of17 given us a bad name, the people that's not

18 willing to try to do a little bit better job19 of controlling your dogs.20 And, like I say, I'd be willing, if21 anybody is interested, to put on some kind22 of seminar to help control the dog. I'm --23 I'm not the one that come up with this

Page 38

1 idea. I'd like to give the credit to Robert2 Martin, who's a good friend of mine. He3 turned me on to this, what we call them,4 whistle-broke or you can horn-break them or

5 you can break them to your voice command.6 And I think Martin Sewell was the guy that7 come up with the idea of this.8 These -- These -- These collars was9 invented mostly for your coon hunters to10 keep them from running deer. Trash-breaking11 collars is really what they're sold for.12 This is a Tri-Tronic system. It will hold13 up to six collars. And it has been a real14 blessing to our club to be able to control15 our dogs.16 And I'd like to thank the board for17 the job that y'all do, and that's -- that's18 all I've got to say.19 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank you, Mr. Tyson.20 Mr. Tyson, y'all hadn't had any21 problems with the permit system?22 MR. TYSON: No, sir. We've had one violation in23 the past six years.

Page 39

1 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Very good.2 MR. TYSON: Yes, sir. It has really -- really3 been a blessing.4 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Commissioner?5 MR. MCMILLAN: I just wanted to ask how far is

6 that effective.7 MR. TYSON: Well, this -- this particular one is8 supposed to be a one-mile range. But we've9 hunt in some hilly country and -- and it10 hasn't got that full one-mile range. But11 they do make one that's got a little longer12 range to it than this. But if I can get13 close enough to my dog, I can have him back14 at my truck in five minutes, you know.15 But this is supposed to have a16 one-mile range is what they advertise. This17 is a Tri-Tronic system. It will hold up to

18 six collars. You can have one, two, three19 up -- up to six is the -- is -- The most20 that I've seen that they make is the21 six-collar system. And that's what I have22 is a six-collar system, and that's what the23 majority of our members is running is this

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1 Tri-Tronic system.

2 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Mr. Jones?

3 MR. RAYMOND JONES: Mr. Tyson, have you expressed

4 your idea of this to the Alabama Dog Hunters

5 Association, Mr. Don Knight?6 MR. TYSON: No, sir, I have not. I have not

7 expressed it to them. I have the members --

8 I mean, the clubs that's around Henry

9 County. I have -- I have talked with

10 several of them. All -- All it takes is a

11 little bit of time and -- and willing to put

12 out the money for the system itself. This

13 system, along with six collars, costs about

14 a thousand dollars.

15 The majority of the folks have

16 tracking collars. They've been out several

17 years. You know, you can tell where your18 dog is at, but you can't make him come back

19 to you or you can't stop him when he gets

20 across the road. But these -- these right

21 here will stop him and make him come to

22 you. Like I say, I call them c'mere

23 collars.

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1 MR. RAYMOND JONES: Yeah. You may want to get2 with the Dog Hunters Association.3 MR. TYSON: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I've -- I've4 thought very seriously about that, getting5 with the Dog Hunters Association and putting

6 on some kind of seminar and trying to get7 more clubs to go to this. I think it8 would -- it would help the -- them get along9 with their neighbors.10 I'm not -- like I say, I'm not saying11 our dogs don't get off of our property. But12 our neighbors realize that we have gone to13 something like this. And -- and we're14 willing to get -- get them back as quick as15 possible. And it's -- And it's made our16 neighbors -- even though a dog gets over17 there, they don't get angry with us from

18 staying over there two or three hours. You19 know, in five minutes we can have them20 back. It's -- It has really been a big help21 to our club. It has.22 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Mr. Tyson, thank you very23 much.

Page 42

1 MR. TYSON: Thank you.2 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Okay. That concludes the3 public hearing portion of our business.4 The next order of business is old

5 business. I'll start with the -- we had a6 question on the Bankhead Forest WMA the7 Commissioner asked Gary Moody.8 Gary, are you familiar with that?9 MR. MOODY: Yes, I am.10 MR. WIMBERLY: Would you like to speak on that.11 MR. MOODY: The subject was hogs in Bankhead12 National Forest and issues related to13 getting opportunities to trap in the14 wilderness area. And we've had many15 discussions with the Forest Service since16 the last meeting, and right now they will17 not allow by law, they say, any vehicles of18 any kind to enter into that area. And not19 only that, they're telling us they won't20 even allow the traps in there because that's21 a mechanical device, and they won't allow22 any mechanical device within a wilderness23 area.

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1 So there are issues that we're still2 trying to figure out a way to get around.3 There is a new forest supervisor that's been4 assigned to Alabama. He is to report in5 June -- I believe it's June. And we will

6 meet with him, as soon as he gets here, and7 see if he -- if we can work through any8 alternatives. But right now the wilderness9 issue is a very restrictive issue as far as10 the Forest Service is concerned.11 COMMISSIONER GUY: Gary, just asking, I thought12 we had provided it sometime at the office,13 but ask him to give us -- provide us with14 all the rules and regulations that restrict15 all that --16 MR. MOODY: I will.17 COMMISSIONER GUY: -- and let's see. Because we

18 may have see if we can't petition some of19 our congressional delegation to understand,20 you know, what our problems are. And I --21 And I personally don't believe that22 there are only problems in Alabama. I think23 there are problems in other states as well,

Page 44

1 from what I hear from people. So maybe it's

2 a policy issue that we need to address.

3 And I know some of the people on the

4 board, I think, are equally interested in

5 that issue, so I don't think I'm just6 speaking for myself or the Department. But

7 let's just see if we can -- Because I know

8 they tell you that, but we need to get our

9 hands around it.

10 MR. MOODY: Okay. We'll get copies of the policy

11 and/or laws.

12 COMMISSIONER GUY: Tell them to provide us

13 everything that restricts it and -- and what

14 are -- what are the impediments so we can

15 try to see if we can address it at a

16 different level.

17 MR. MOODY: Will do it.18 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Mr. Moody, you can just stay

19 right there, if you would.

20 MR. MOODY: All right.

21 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: The next issue was we had a

22 "Buckshot For Youth" issue. Grady had asked

23 you about it.

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1 MR. MOODY: Yeah. And actually Allan is going to2 address that issue.3 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Okay, Allan.4 Thank you, Gary.5 MR. MOODY: Sure.

6 MR. ANDRESS: The issue was the prohibition of7 buckshot during closed dog deer season and8 in those areas. And we've surveyed our9 staff. There was not any serious10 enforcement issue expressed by them about11 legalizing buckshot in those areas. After12 all, it's already legal, you know, during13 two months of the -- out of the season, and14 the other two weeks of dog season it's not.15 The only concerns that were expressed16 were safety concerns, use of buckshot and17 the effectiveness of buckshot in terms of

18 wounding. However, you know, they also19 noted that we already allow that during two20 months of the season, during the open dog21 season, and we -- and another two weeks22 probably wouldn't make any difference. So23 our staff -- enforcement staff didn't have

Page 46

1 any serious concerns about it one way or the2 other.3 Any questions?4 MR. HARTZOG: The main thing, it was brought up

5 to me that, you know, a lot of times with6 kids shooting, kids would probably have a7 better chance of killing in a deer stand off8 of this buckshot versus --9 MR. ANDRESS: Well, we didn't have any particular10 concerns about it -- serious concerns.11 MR. HARTZOG: In order to change it, do we pass a12 regulation or do y'all automatically do13 that?14 MR. ANDRESS: Change the regulation?15 MR. HARTZOG: Yes, sir.16 MR. ANDRESS: We just make a motion, pass it, and17 we make the change in the regulation.18 COMMISSIONER GUY: Is it just for the kids or do19 you want to do it for everybody?20 MR. HARTZOG: Do it for everybody.21 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Very good. Thank you,22 Allan.23 Okay. The next issue was there was a

Page 47

1 property line safety issue that I had asked2 Allan about. Commissioner Guy had asked to3 take on that issue.4 Commissioner, do you have any comments5 on that?

6 COMMISSIONER GUY: Well, I've been talking with7 the staff about that. What we'd like to do8 is just carry that over. Because of some of9 the recent, you know, natural disasters that10 we've had with the tornadoes, we didn't11 really get to that, as much as we'd like to,12 so I just want to carry that over.13 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: That will be carried over.14 Very good.15 The next was to add the non-game16 wildlife protection regulation of the17 Wildlife and Freshwater Fisheries.

18 Allan.19 MR. ANDRESS: The proposed regulations we -- we20 presented at the last meeting. There's21 actually four regulations, and I'd like to22 sort of address them together because23 they're all linked. And it has to do with

Page 48

1 some changes in the non-game regulation2 where there were some species added, and3 there were quite a few of those, quite a4 long list.

5 The one that necessitated the changes6 from the other regulations were, number one,7 the inclusion of the spotted skunk in the8 non-game protection regulation. And,9 therefore, to do that, when that one was10 added to the non-game regulation, it11 required the amendment of the open season12 for fur bearers, which you'll see that that13 spotted skunk, civet cat, is deleted from14 that. Also, in the trapping season it was15 deleted from that. And also being16 designated as a fur bearer, it was deleted17 from -- from the legal fur bearer list.18 The other change linked with the19 turtle catcher/farmer regulation. And when20 the -- There was some language in the21 non-game regulation that dealt with turtle22 harvest. And we already had a turtle23 harvest regulation, so that language was

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1 deleted from the non-game regulation and

2 included in the turtle farmer/catcher

3 regulation. That was just moved from one

4 regulation to another.

5 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Any questions from the

6 board?

7 (No response.)

8 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Very good. Allan, thank you.

9 The game animal research proposal.

10 Mr. Moody?

11 MR. MOODY: Yes, sir. This is the one that we

12 discussed briefly at the last meeting and

13 you -- all of you had a copy of this. And I

14 can give you another copy if you don't have

15 it with you.

16 But, basically, it's an opportunity

17 that we have to do game animal research --

18 well, to allow -- to work with Auburn to do19 game animal research. We've not had funding

20 for many years to do a lot of game animal

21 work. We've had funding for non-game

22 species and listed species, but not

23 specifically game animals.

Page 50

1 And the money would come from the2 Heritage License sales. And if y'all will3 recall, when the Heritage License was4 developed, it was said that the first

5 $500,000 would go specifically for6 research. The research had to be approved7 by the board. So right now there's just8 slightly more than $50,000 in that account.9 It's not building up real fast.10 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: After the first 500, where11 does that go?12 MR. MOODY: To the Game and Fish fund. It stays13 in the fund, but it's -- the first 500 --14 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Only the first 500 goes to15 research?16 MR. MOODY: Right, that's correct. But we're17 going to be a long time getting to that18 500,000.19 So what we would propose -- what we20 have proposed to do is take $30,000 of that21 money that's there and use it specifically22 for game animal research with Auburn.23 Auburn has agreed to match that. And then

Page 51

1 we will, in addition to the 30 that they're2 going to be putting in, work with Auburn to3 find additional matching funds to try to4 extend that even further. So, you know,5 it's just a good opportunity to get some

6 good game animal research going.7 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: That would be great. Now,8 with all the things with Wildlife and9 Freshwater Fisheries, I think that's the end10 of it. We could have a motion to go ahead11 and pass all those issues.12 Corky, any other issues y'all have13 besides that?14 MR. PUGH: No, sir.15 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Okay. All the board -- Any16 other questions? Can I get a motion from17 somebody on the board for that?

18 MR. RAYMOND JONES: So moved.19 MR. HARTZOG: Second.20 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: We've got a motion for all21 the items that have passed by Wildlife and22 Freshwater Fisheries -- that are presented23 by Wildlife and Freshwater Fisheries to be

Page 52

1 passed. Any other discussion?2 Mr. Harbin?3 MR. HARBIN: No.4 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: No discussion? Okay. All

5 right. That so being said, all those in6 favor --7 COMMISSIONER GUY: Hold it a second. For the8 court reporter, can we identify exactly9 which ones we're voting on so she'll know10 for sure which ones we're talking about?11 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: And those -- Yes. To12 identify those, those are the -- the motion13 will include the game animal research14 proposal and the species to non-game15 wildlife protection regulation, the two16 prior commented -- that we have commented17 on.18 Do you want to include the buckshot?19 MR. HARTZOG: Well, do you want to do it as new20 business or --21 MS. NUMMY: Dan, did you get a second for the22 motion?23 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Yes, we did. It was Grady.

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1 MR. HARTZOG: But are we going -- are we doing --2 are we doing the buckshot, or are we going3 to do that under new business?4 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Let's do it under new5 business.

6 MR. MELTON: I know the public hearing is -- Can7 I say one minute about the buckshot?8 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Yes, sir.9 MR. MELTON: With our permit system --10 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Come on back up.11 MR. MELTON: I probably could be heard from out12 there.13 But with our permit system with the14 dog deer hunting, there's a -- there are a15 lot of people that walk heads and do man16 drives. And, see, we're right across the17 creek. We can legally have buckshot and

18 they can't because they do not have a permit19 to -- to run dogs. And -- And this whole20 morale issue that we are having -- Because21 it's a pretty popular way of hunting and22 they think it's safer and more efficient to23 use buckshot. And where you have a closed

Page 54

1 dog season or you're on a permit system,2 they can't use buckshot.3 So we're having a little morale4 problem there because they can't -- can't

5 walk their heads with their buckshot, and6 right across the creek we can have buckshot7 and -- with our dog drive. And I really do8 not think that's fair to those people.9 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank you, Mr. Melton.10 Okay. Now that the discussion of that11 is over, all those in favor of the motion12 raise your hands, please.13 (All board members raise hands.)14 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: All opposed?15 (No response.)16 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Motion carries. It's a --17 it's a hundred percent.18 All right. The next issue of old19 business is gill nets. Dr. Shipp, you've20 got some comments?21 DR. SHIPP: Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.22 The gill-net issue is 20-years-or-plus23 old, and it continues to be a controversy.

Page 55

1 I've received a number of letters expressing2 concern about certain aspects of3 gill-netting -- not the whole practice4 itself, but certain aspects of it, including5 letters from the mayors of Gulf Shores and

6 Orange Beach regarding controversy between7 tourists and gill-netters. And I'll just8 mention several of the concerns that have9 been expressed to me.10 One of them is that the spawning11 season for Spanish Mackerel is primarily12 April and May, and that's when there's13 intense gill-netting in the open waters off14 of -- off of our coast so that by the time15 the summer season arrives, the stocks are16 pretty well depleted.17 Because of the increased regulations

18 to the offshore fisheries, the snapper19 fishery and the amberjack fishery, there's20 been a move by a number of the guides to --21 to change from larger boats to smaller22 inshore boats, and that makes fishes like23 Pompano and Spanish Mackerel even more

Page 56

1 important to the them.2 The Alabama Deep Sea Fishing Rodeo,3 which is the largest and oldest fishing4 tournament in the United States, has about

5 30 categories. But three of those were6 historically what we call jackpot categories7 because those species were so popular. One8 of those three jackpot categories was9 Spanish Mackerel. But in the last decade10 the -- the emphasis on the gill-net fishery11 on Spanish has intensified to the point12 where the Rodeo simply dropped it as a -- as13 a jackpot category.14 What I'd like to do is read a letter15 from the -- not the whole letter, but a16 letter that was sent to Commissioner Wiley a17 number of years ago regarding gill-netting.18 And this letter was from the Director of19 Coastal Fisheries in the State of Texas.20 And I will just read a few excerpts for the21 record.22 It is my understanding that some23 individuals or organizations are trying to

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1 make the case that the use of gill nets does2 not harm fishery resources and, further,3 that there is no scientific evidence4 demonstrating that negative impact. If that5 is the case, they are wrong on both

6 accounts. I am able to provide this7 information because of the long-term and8 coast-wide monitoring program that has been9 in place here in Texas since 1974.10 It is widely acknowledged as the most11 extensive resource monitoring program12 anywhere in the world, and we're very proud13 of it. I have also included some14 information about the program.15 In 2002 I invited an independent peer16 review of our program so we could assure the17 leadership of our agency and state that our

18 work represents the best science available.19 The American Fishing Society agreed to carry20 out that review, and some of the best21 fishing scientists in the country22 participated. They confirmed the validity23 of our science and further recommended it as

Page 58

1 a national model.2 My point in relaying this to you is to3 assure you that the information I have4 included here is based not only on sound

5 science, but the best science available. On6 a personal note, I continue to be astounded7 that this debate continues.8 And the rest of the letter is a series9 of graphs demonstrating the impact of the --10 of the advantage of gill nets in Texas11 waters.12 Now, it's not my intention to make any13 motions here, and it's not my intention to14 move to ban gill nets. But there are15 certain aspects of the gill-net fishery that16 are creating a serious problem and have been17 a problem for many years on the coast.18 I am not anti-commercial fishing. My19 son has two seafood restaurants in Orange20 Beach. I'm very, very supportive of almost21 all aspects of the commercial fishery. But22 there are aspects of the gill-net fishery23 that do need attention, and we need to

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1 address it.2 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.3 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank you, Dr. Shipp.4 Okay. That concludes what I have in5 old business. Is there any other old

6 business?7 MR. HARTZOG: Yes. Do you remember, Gary, I8 think, at the last meeting back when Susan9 had spoken several times about the new10 schedules on the management areas, the11 dog-hunts all the same times, which did not12 give them the opportunity to -- to utilize13 management areas and you were going to look14 at the possibility of changing some dates15 around so the dog hunters would get some16 more days on the management area?17 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: You addressed that in your

18 memorandum, Gary. Would you like to go over19 that real quick?20 MR. MOODY: I'll let David Hayden do that, if you21 don't mind.22 MR. HAYDEN: Thank you. We did look at that23 issue, and we --

Page 60

1 COMMISSIONER GUY: State your name. Everybody2 state their name when you get up here for3 our court reporter.4 Sorry about that, David.

5 MR. HAYDEN: That's okay. David Hayden.6 We looked at the days that we had the7 dog deer hunting, and on three of the areas8 we have increased it by 50 percent, which is9 by two days. We're going to try to evaluate10 that at the end of the season and see how it11 goes.12 We -- As far as splitting them up so13 that all of them are on different days from14 the other management areas, we have not done15 that. We're trying to look at each aspect,16 each area to see how it goes. Surrounding17 landowners and the number of individuals18 that may show up on a management area for --19 for the hunts was a -- a concern,20 consideration that we took. So we still21 have some of the hunts on two areas on the22 same days, but we have added days.23 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Mr. Hatley.

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1 MR. HATLEY: David, while you're -- while you're2 standing up there, in reading what we3 received from Gary in reference to the4 management area hunt and days, I'm a little5 maybe confused. I don't know. I don't

6 think we clarified it.7 I would like to see -- Gary and David,8 you said the number of season -- a number of9 seasons have been changed in several areas.10 For example, five areas will test extending11 turkey season. When you talk about turkey12 season, it really gets my attention. But I13 would like to see those areas produced where14 I can look at them.15 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: You're talking about the --16 It says the number of seasons. You're17 talking about --

18 MR. HATLEY: Yes.19 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: -- clarifying the seasons?20 MR. HATLEY: Yes. And I want to see where you're21 talking about extending, where you're22 running those --23 MR. HAYDEN: Well, the extension there is we're

Page 62

1 trying -- instead of closing the five areas2 at one o'clock, as we have in the past,3 we're having the full-day hunts. And4 each -- We did not point them out there, but

5 each of the areas has a sheet attached. And6 at the bottom of each sheet is a change. So7 that by looking through the sheets, you can8 see where the hunt has been added for the9 full day as opposed to ending at one10 o'clock.11 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Well, I think Commissioner12 Guy has --13 COMMISSIONER GUY: Let me interrupt you. And, of14 course, this is what I -- I talked to Bill15 earlier about that, also, and a couple other16 people.

17 I think what we need to do when we do18 some -- these changes, for purposes of the19 board being able to readily spot them, you20 know, highlight, underline, put something in21 the margin so that the changes are -- are22 set forth where we can find them easier.23 You guys -- You guys know them and

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1 understand them, and you know what your2 change is. But when the board goes to look3 at the minutes and -- and the documents, you4 know, they're having a hard time, even I do,5 picking -- picking out exactly what the

6 changes are. I think that's what Bill's7 really --8 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Is that what you're asking9 about?10 COMMISSIONER GUY: -- is asking about.11 MR. HATLEY: Exactly.12 COMMISSIONER GUY: And I told him I thought we13 could do that. In other words, just so he14 can look in there, when he sees turkey --15 you know, a turkey issue, he wants to be16 able to go where is that without having to17 hunt and peck.

18 MR. HATLEY: Thank you.19 COMMISSIONER GUY: That's what he's talking20 about, I think. Isn't that right,21 Mr. Hatley?22 MR. HATLEY: Yes, sir.23 MR. HAYDEN: For example, highlight them in

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1 yellow or -- something along those lines?

2 COMMISSIONER GUY: Well, when we go to copy them,

3 see, too, we lose a lot of the

4 highlighting. So what we may have to do

5 is --6 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: We'll figure it out.

7 COMMISSIONER GUY: -- is come up with a better

8 way of actually marking or denoting those

9 changes.

10 MR. HAYDEN: Sure. No problem.

11 COMMISSIONER GUY: If you'll would help us with

12 that, I would appreciate it.

13 MR. HATLEY: I would appreciate it, also.

14 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank you, David.

15 Okay. The next order of business

16 would be new business.

17 MR. HARTZOG: One -- One more old business.18 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Okay. Mr. Hartzog.

19 MR. HARTZOG: You had asked me earlier how I

20 thought the -- Barbour County is under the

21 restrictions -- the only county in the state

22 that's under the restrictions. And I just

23 wanted the board to note that when Mr. Young

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1 got up and spoke, he talked about how it was2 working and their classes were improving.3 And so it's working in Barbour County. I4 want to thank the board for passing that in5 Barbour County several years back.

6 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank you very much,7 Mr. Hartzog.8 All right. New business. Does the9 board have any new business?10 Mr. Hartzog.11 MR. HARTZOG: Make a motion that the regulations12 be changed to allow the buckshot during13 that -- I'll leave -- leave it to Jennifer14 in legal to actually write the -- get it15 properly written where the buckshot is16 allowed during the stalk season after the17 dog season.

18 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Is there a second?19 DR. SHIPP: Yes.20 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Is there a second?21 DR. SHIPP: Second.22 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: There's a second.23 The motion is to allow buckshot during

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1 the stalk season per our previous2 conversation with Wildlife and Freshwater3 Fisheries. Is there any discussion?4 (No response.)

5 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Okay. All those in favor6 please hold a hand up.7 (All board members raise hands.)8 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: All opposed?9 (No response.)10 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Motion carries unanimous.11 Any other new business?12 MR. DOBBS: I'd like to make a --13 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Go ahead. Mr. Dobbs.14 MR. DOBBS: I'd like to make a motion effective15 beginning with the 2011/2012 deer-hunting16 season for the passage of the approved dog17 deer-hunting permit system for all portions18 of Chilton County.19 MR. HATLEY: I second that motion.20 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: We've got a motion and a21 second, the motion being effective with the22 2011/2012 deer-hunting season that the dog23 deer hunting permit system for all portions

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1 of Chilton County be approved. Any

2 discussion?

3 Mr. Harbin?

4 MR. HARBIN: Yes, sir.

5 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: No discussion?

6 MR. HARBIN: No.

7 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Okay. Any other discussion?

8 (No response.)

9 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Okay. All those in favor of

10 this motion raise your hand.

11 (All board members raise hands.)

12 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: All opposed?

13 (No response.)

14 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Let the record reflect that

15 the motion passes a hundred percent.

16 Any other new business?

17 Mr. Hartzog.

18 MR. HARTZOG: In light, again, of what Mr. Young19 said that his son was finding on some of

20 those fish, we've got a big tournament being

21 fished here today. Is there any chance of

22 getting any of the fisheries guys to maybe

23 inspect the catch that the FLW tournament

Page 68

1 brings in today?2 MR. HAYDEN: Sure.3 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Matter of fact, I had4 mentioned to Corky that during the

5 tournament held up at -- on the lake a few6 weeks ago, he had the biologists there, and7 they were clipping fins and doing genetic8 research and really doing a good job with9 that. And I'm sure y'all are all over it,10 but that would be great if they would11 look -- refer that comment to them, get12 Corky to do that.13 Any other new business?14 Mr. Hartzog.15 MR. HARTZOG: Mr. Chairman, one last thing.16 Forever Wild. And Chauncey said something17 about them supporting Forever Wild.18 Forever Wild, the Senate passed a19 version last Thursday that is sent back to20 the House. I wish that each and every one21 of you out there would contact your House of22 Representatives and tell them to -- to pass23 that bill and to pass it without any

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1 that got a little damage, but I don't think

2 it's too bad. We can get that fixed. We

3 had a lot of tree damage.

4 But the one good thing about the Lake

5 Guntersville problem is that we're all

6 thankful that nobody was killed or seriously

7 injured. And considering the damage that

8 was done there, we're very fortunate.

9 So I just kind of wanted to give those

10 reports. And I can answer any questions if

11 anybody has any. Otherwise, I appreciate

12 the time. Thank you.

13 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Any questions?

14 MS. WEBER: Mr. Chairman?

15 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Yes.

16 MS. WEBER: I just wanted -- I understand that

17 it's customary for the board to approve the

18 regulations of the department at this19 point.

20 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Yes.

21 MS. WEBER: I just wanted to --

22 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: I have someone fixing to make

23 that motion.

Page 74

1 Mr. Jones.2 MR. RAYMOND JONES: I'll be glad --3 MS. WEBER: I'm sorry. I should have brought4 that up under new business.

5 MR. RAYMOND JONES: I so move to make that6 motion.7 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Do you have that where --8 MR. RAYMOND JONES: I don't.9 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Oh, Mr. Hartzog has it.10 Okay.11 MR. HARTZOG: I'll be glad to make a motion.12 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Mr. Hartzog.13 MR. HARTZOG: I'll make a motion to approve all14 regulations of the Department of15 Conservation and Natural Resources since the16 last approval.

17 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Second?18 MR. RAYMOND JONES: Second.19 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: We have a motion and a20 second.21 Any discussion?22 (No response.)23 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: All those in favor raise your

Page 75

1 hand.2 (All board members raise hands.)3 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: All opposed?4 (No response.)5 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Let it show the motion

6 carries a hundred percent.7 The next item of business is the8 selection and date of the next advisory9 board meeting that will be the first of10 2012. The date will be February 4th, 2012,11 and the location will be Montgomery,12 Alabama.13 Mr. Bates, did you have a question14 in -- in response to the Commissioner's15 comments?16 MR. BATES: Yes, sir. My only --17 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Come to the microphone,

18 please, sir.19 MR. BATES: The matter of the wildlife, in two20 weeks that I was there I saw one squirrel,21 two mockingbirds, three thrashers, and I'm22 talking in several miles. There's no23 trees. And it's the same way through the

Page 76

1 woods. I've come back through 69. There's2 four tornado trails through there. A lot of3 food trees was knocked down.4 I'd love to see some white acorn trees

5 put back out there for our squirrels, if6 they come back, in the woods, especially in7 Guntersville. They lost a lot of trees in8 these parks. These big white acorns sure9 make a good food for deer and other --10 squirrels and other creatures. So if we put11 some of these trees back -- Because a12 tremendous food source was lost for our13 game. If you see a mile-and-a-half streak14 through some good, productive oak trees,15 those trees have been feeding the game for16 75 to a hundred years. So if they put some17 good oak trees that bear acorns and stuff18 for our game it would be a big help, I19 believe, in some of these areas.20 Y'all probably already thought of21 that. But just the devastation to the game22 in these areas that I was in, I saw one dog,23 one cat, and four Blue Jays along with

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1 that. But outside of that, one squirrel was2 hanging in on that hill.3 Thank you.4 CHAIRMAN MOULTRIE: Thank you.5 Okay. Being that there's no further

6 business, this meeting stands adjourned.7 (Meeting adjourned at 10:30 a.m.)8 * * * * * * * * * *9 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE10 * * * * * * * * * *11 STATE OF ALABAMA:12 MONTGOMERY COUNTY:13 I, Gayle F. Watson, Certified Court14 Reporter and Commissioner for the State of Alabama at15 Large, do hereby certify that I reported the foregoing16 proceedings of the State of Alabama Department of17 Conservation and Natural Resources Advisory Board

18 Meeting on May 14, 2011.19 The foregoing 76 computer-printed pages20 contain a true and correct transcript of the21 proceedings held.22 I further certify that I am neither of kin23 nor of counsel to the parties to said cause nor in any

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1 manner interested in the results thereof.2 This 25th day of July 2011.3 4 5

___________________________ Gayle F. Watson6 ACCR No. 573

Expiration date: 9-30-20117 Certified Court Reporter

and Commissioner for the State8 of Alabama at Large9

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given 3:6 37:14,17glad 3:4 12:2,2

74:2,11glory 3:9go 8:5,18 9:14

12:10 17:9,1119:16 22:23 23:228:16 32:5 37:1341:7 50:5,1151:10 59:1863:16 64:2 66:1369:19 70:1 72:23

goes 23:6 30:950:14 60:11,1663:2 69:19

going 7:16 8:5,615:5,18 17:10,1718:7,11 21:11,1222:6,9 23:14 24:825:13 26:7 28:428:22 30:15,1731:11 32:5 33:736:7 45:1 50:1751:2,6 53:1,259:13 60:9 69:13

69:19 72:16,18good 5:21 7:22

8:15 13:22 14:1819:5 20:22 33:2234:19 38:2 39:146:21 47:14 49:8

51:5,6 68:8 70:770:16 73:4 76:976:14,17

gotten 10:9

Governor 72:5Grady 2:4 44:2252:23 69:17

graph 9:2graphs 58:9great 19:23 20:17

26:12 28:5,6 51:768:10 71:5,1972:6

group 3:11 9:3,7guarantee 17:18guess 10:17guide 3:13 23:20guides 19:23 55:20Gulf9:5 10:13

55:5gulfs 14:14gumbos 11:18Gunter 2:2 3:20Guntersville 72:11

72:15 73:5 76:7guy 2:2 3:20 5:22

7:17 15:1,1127:12 38:6 43:1143:17 44:1246:18 47:2,6 52:760:1 62:12,1363:10,12,19 64:264:7,11 69:14,16

guys 62:23,2367:22

Guy's 21:7

H

Hackleburg 7:1113:2

half5:16 36:11hand 13:22 66:6

67:10 75:1handled 71:22

hands 28:10 44:954:12,13 66:767:11 75:2

hanging 77:2

happen 28:4,5,1130:18happened 7:9

18:20happening 31:8Harbin 2:7 4:14,15

4:15 52:2,3 67:367:4,6

hard 7:14 35:1637:15 63:4

harm 57:2Hartzog 2:4 4:21

4:21 18:3,6 46:446:11,15,2051:19 52:19 53:159:7 64:17,18,1965:7,10,11 67:1767:18 68:14,1574:9,11,12,13

harvest 48:22,23hate 22:11Hatley 2:6 3:7,8,16

3:23 4:19,1960:23 61:1,18,2063:11,18,21,2264:13 66:19

Hayden 59:20,2260:5,5 61:2363:23 64:10 68:2

heads 53:15 54:5heal 15:5hear 32:1,20 33:14

37:4 44:1heard 13:3 53:11

hearing 2:12 6:142:3 53:6

hearts 15:6heavy 18:23heed 13:1held 68:5 77:21

help 6:16 10:9,912:9,10 14:4,617:15 18:9 21:1123:20 35:23

37:13,22 41:8,2064:11 71:1976:18

helped 14:11helping 12:8Henry 35:11,14

40:8Herb 9:3herd 21:14Heritage 50:2,3highest 9:7,10highlight 62:20

63

Cab 2011 May

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Transcript of Cab 2011 May