bush.tamu.edu Panel 2.docx · Web viewAlright, welcome back to another episode of Bush School...

Alright, welcome back to another episode of Bush School Uncorked and tonight, or morning, depending on where each of us are today. As you see, we are a bit scattered, but I'm really excited to get these three students together. These are all folks that I had the opportunity to work with closely while they were at the Bush school. They're from various parts of the world, which is really exciting and they have different interests and did some different cool things while they were at the Bush School. They had maybe the pleasure or not pleasure of spending a lot of time working with me on a number of projects, so I'm sure we'll talk a little bit about that.

Let's get straight to it, I'm going to let each of the former students that are with us, I'm going to ask them to introduce themselves and then kind of like with the previous episode with former students, I'll spend a little bit of each one of them talking a bit about their background or their interest in public service and what brought them to the Bush School, some of their experiences at the Bush School, and now that they had left us and left college station, what they're doing now and just some general conversation about Public Service.

Does that sound good to you, team? Excellent. On my screen I have, it looks like Meggy, Leila, and then Hosic. So, let's do it in that order you can introduce yourself and tell us where you are from and where you are currently at this moment, where you're calling in from.

I'm Meggy Lebani, I'm from Albania I'm calling from Tirana, Albania.

Leila [inaudible 00:01:50], I'm from Georgia and for a week already I'm back home, I'm in Tbilisi, Georgia.

Oh, very nice.

I'm Hosic Casul, I'm calling from California right now, I'm originally from Pakistan.

Very nice. So, first, thank you all for making time to be here. I know that it is 10:30 my time, I believe 5:30 Meggy's time, 8:30 or so Leila's time, and Hosic is actually is the winner of this time game, I think only 8:30 out his way, maybe.

Yup.

So, thanks for being here. Meggy, we started with you in the introductions, I'd like to start with you first and I think what would be interesting to me and maybe interesting to people following along is, what made you interested in coming from your home all the way to the Bush School to focus on a degree that was specifically in Public Service? What was your journey that brought you to College Station?

Specifically to the Bush School and College Station fate, I have to say because I applied from back home, I applied for a full ride scholarship. Ever since I started University here, I knew I wanted to get an education in the US for obvious reasons for the quality and for the professors and opportunities, so I applied to the full ride scholarship, which is a State Department managed scholarship, and I knew I wanted to do Public Service because of my background in Political Science. I worked for a couple of years in Single Society working for good governments where in policing but mostly just trying to have a better government in my country. Which, it's a long way ahead, but I knew that if I go to this type of education it couldn't revolutionize the world or my country but at least it would give me some of the tools to do a better job when I came back home and that's how I ended up at College Station, not by

Students Panel 2 (Completed 02/09/19)Transcript by Rev.com

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choice in the sense that I couldn't choose the program that I was going to end up in, it was chosen by the [inaudible 00:03:52] Commission, but I'm really happy at the end of the day that I ended up there because of all the experiences I had.

Yeah, and all the interesting colleagues and- what's the word I'm looking for- and fellow students, there we go, I'll get it out, and two others of which are here with us tonight. What type of work, tell me a little bit more about some of the work you were doing before you came to do your Masters?

AS I said, I was in Civil Society, I was working with different NGO'S. Most recently, before I came, I was most interested in gender issues so working a lot on Women's empowerment, economically, politically, socially, but mostly on gender based violence. I was doing a lot of research, a lot of on the groundwork, working with women for instance in the labor market for discrimination and women's rights in the labor market. Before that, I was in different NGO doing work on good governments, transparency, monitoring government policies, especially in the area of European immigration which continues to be a big deal here. That brought me what I was working on, but then on a daily basis, many different things. The part I enjoyed the most was just monitoring and doing research papers on different policies that were in my area of interest. That I continue to do today in a different type of work.

While you were at the Bush School, the students at the Bush School have- they can pick a track and a concentration, so what types of- what did you specialize in while you were at the Bush School?

Proudly, I chose the Policy Analysis direction and then I made my own concentration specifically because I was interested in different things. A little bit on International Development but mostly on I made the track on good government and Institutions so I try to mix a little bit of different things because I had many interests at the time and I thought some of the classes really fit what I was doing back home in Albania, it was a bit of a mess and all over the place but I loved it because it gave me a perspective on how institutions work, why sometimes institutions fail and what we can do to make them better, and that really gave me the tools now that I'm back I really understand how I should work with different institutions because I had some theoretical background or a better theoretical background right now.

I do still work mostly on Policy Analysis. I kept that as the main concentration.

Very nice. I'm going to come back to you and I'm going to give you a heads up that what I'm going to want to want from you when I come back around, after I talk to Leila and Hosic, is I want to hear one or two memories from your time at the Bush School.

Okay.

So, you can pick whatever you would like them to be, but some things that as you spent time here, spent two years and have left, what are two memories that particularly stick with you about your time? Everyone's going to get that on the second round, so you have been warned. Thank you so much for giving us a background on you and we will come right back.

Leila, you're next here, tell me about your journey to the Bush School, how you ended up in College Station.


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My story is quite similar to Meggy's, safe is the right word to start with because I'm also a Full Brights Scholar. I applied to Full Bright Scholarship in 2016 and I wrote out my dedication and my passion and my passion in [inaudible 00:07:30] would be I'm very passionate to help people in terms of Social Justice, in terms of human rights, well then you're in the right place to put me. So, that's how I ended up at the Bush School.

Tell me a little bit about some of the work, just like I asked with Meggy, some of the work you were doing just a little but more detail about some of your experience before you joined us at the Bush School.

I count the beginning of my professional career at 2008. In 2008, my home country of Georgia had the war with Russia. Back then I was a student of the Law Faculty so I was studying Law. I started a non-profit organization while being a student myself and when the war started we had this desire to, again, help people so go and do something. That's how we started, we ended up volunteering for some camps. Internally displaced people camps, where people flee from the war. There, I was helping and I was gathering information about their needs. So, basically doing needs assessment, then making sure supply got to them, be it food or first aid essentials. There, I found out, even in the worst case or worst situation an emergency situation, the needs for men and boys are different from the needs of woman and girls. Very often, because of cultural norm, woman and girls are too shy to say that or talk about that. Especially in presence of men, so I realized that's what I want to do. Not only do I want to help people, but I want to help particularity woman and girl and particularity in war torn or war effected communities.

So, that's where I spent my next six years, I was noticed by the non-profit organization and they invited me to work with them. The organization was specializing in helping internally displaced woman and helping them to rebuild their war torn communities. I was working on women's empowerment through giving legal, pro bono legal consultations, I was also a manager of a couple of projects that empowered women through education, through public activism, advocacy work. So, we kind of tried to build their communities. Nowadays, those woman are the main points of contact in their communities and they have very strong ground already. I do consider my work a success.

Wonderful. This is also an area that you and Meggy share, and trying to find ways to deal with gender inequality and particularly in either war torn or some developing areas and dealing with the issues of gender inequality. I'd expect no less from you, no less.

Then you went through the Full Bright process as well, ended up at the Bush School, and during your time at the Bush School, where did your studies focus on?

Before going to be Bush School I went to the UN, I got the National perspective as well and that's where I realized that I need more education and more tools in my toolbox to be able to support my country better. I end up at the Bush School and I chose Public Policy Analysis direction, and because I was at the UN I chose International non-profit organizations as my concentration.

Very nice. Alright, I'm going to ask you the same question, too, once I chat with Hosic of something particularity memorable from your time at the Bush School, be prepared you have been warned. Hosic, how are you, sir?


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I'm doing great, I'm doing great, thank you so much for having us.

Yes, thanks so much for joining. Tell me a little bit about your journey to the Bush School.

I come from Pakistan, right, a country like many developing Nations that are facing a lot of social issues, social challenges, political challenges. Growing up as a teenager or graduating from University doing your undergrad, you [inaudible 00:12:02] some pressure, right? Do I join one side, do I join the same people who are playing the name game, or do I do something about it? To make some sort of a change, some sort of a positive change in areas like education, health, and many other social jurisdictions. One of the answers to that question was definitely better education for yourself first and one of the avenues was to obtain a Master's degree that was going to help me in the future obtain the objective that I really have. Hence, shortlisting one of these schools which was Texas A&M was the ultimate idea eventually to go for it because combined with the secondary parts, which are a great program a great structure, there's a lot of international student [inaudible 00:12:59]. Cultural integration, diversity is a big part that is central to school. Which I felt was going to give me an interesting and a sane environment to study all these objectives.

Eventually, long story short, that environment was really, really important to me to study towards my eventual goal which was to go back at a certain time, back to Pakistan, and bring along those in some way or the other.

What was your areas of study while you were at the Bush School?

This is a really interesting mix because my overall [inaudible 00:13:48] track with public policy analysis, however, in order for me to practice the public policy in a meaningful way I had to first understand how things work back home. Having that public policy analysis was teaching myself all policy elements that again the education system for instance, health policies in any environment whatsoever. To practically get there, I had to understand at a very early stage of my Bush School career, that capital is also very necessary. Funding is a huge element when it comes to implementing those policies and trust me when I say this, government isn't that helpful in that regard when implementing those particular policies. So, I had an option to take that in my hand, to gather that capital and for me to do that I thought private sector or going to the private sector in a field that is relevant, it's all new to me because I had my undergrad in economics and finance, so my concentration was primarily geared towards finance so that's what I did. Transferred pricing concentration which is basically international tax.

For me, it's like do due process. Getting education here in the US, working in the private sector, understanding the market and then getting enough capital and eventually going back home to make effective use of that capital in a very social way. To bring about that change that I've started here at the Bush School.

Very nice. That's actually, so I'll stay with you for just a minute, we're having a little bit of connectivity challenges on Meggy's side so I'm going to give her a moment to join us back. Actually, there she is. You are, we haven't come to this with anyone else, but that's what you're actually doing right now, right? As you graduate from the Bush School you went on to a finance job which is why you're in California, that's correct, right?


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Absolutely. I'm currently working at Oracle in the field, in the concentration that I studied that the Bush School, which is transferred pricing. It's interesting because it's given me enough experience here to, again, understand how things work at the private sector and being- it's me moving one step closer to having or gaining that capital to the eventual goal that I have which is going back to my home country and making those public policy changes in some way or the other. I think that stems from what I've done back in Pakistan before coming here to the US, which was working with the UN- specifically the developmental program in area of education. Which was something that really interests me over the course of Bush School, the Caplan project was all about that as well. It's one of the areas I'm really interested in making an eventual impact.

Excellent, thank you.

Meggy, I thought we had lost you, you're back with us, wonderful.

Sorry.

That's okay.

Downside of being from a developing country, you know.

You joined us right back, you were only gone I think for just a moment.

I'd like to hear some memory from you that either exemplifies your Bush School experience or something that has stuck with you as you've left us here and moved on.

It's a beautiful question, but also very unfair because you have to pack two years of experiences in just one memory or a few memories, but I will try my best to give you what I remember most from that. I'm just going to name two, I'm sorry. At least two, you have to give me that. I think the thing that really blew my mind, it's not a specific memory but it's something that accumulated over time, is that I could be friends with my professors, friends in the sense of professional colleagues maybe in the future but also I could talk to them about Philosophy or my favorite authors. Which, together we did many times. I'm not going to mention any specific names because we don't know how people will feel about certain people. In fact, it really without the professors as well, I keep in touch even now. It really, it got me thinking that this is what education should look like and this is how we should enter the labor market because it gives you a lot of confidence in yourself and it also makes you feel part of the team and not just you know.

Coming from post-communist countries, it's usually the relationship between professor and student, it's the professor is somewhere out there in space and you know it's very unreachable. Being able to actually reach professors and pick their mind on different things and have intellectual discussions in a friendly setting, in a professional one I think that's something I cherish the most because you are dealing with some of the brightest minds in this country and all over the world of course, so that was really something that I cherish even now and always cherish and I hope that with some of them I will be friends forever and ever.

Also, the second memory that I really really want to share and I think Leila will understand what I mean, is a presentation the final presentation of our Capstone project. Year long struggle of getting to a point


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where you feel like you've done something with your life after excruciating pain and the struggles that we went through, I think the moment that we presented and then we saw ourselves as something much more compared to how we started from. We started [inaudible 00:19:27] project and I think that also signifies a little bit how we came to this school, we didn't know what to expect and we went through a lot of crying sometimes, typing this, all these feelings I think they were packed in that one moment that one day when we gave this presentation of our Capstone project which carried over to the day of graduation, I think when we saw ourselves on the stage and recorded and saw the pictures I was like, "Yeah, I think we are ready for life after the Bush School. That's something that I will never forget.

That's wonderful. What was your Capstone project on?

We worked on Lobbying, which is very important right now, we did research over like eight thousand, Leila correct me if I'm wrong, we spied what people were doing in public service just to see the effects of Lobbying in government or the main past chosen by public officials and we did this big research and publish database and published a report based on that and our client were the congressional research service, which also was a pretty big deal. We got to go there and present also there and I really felt like a true professional presenting to very old institution with so many institutional memory and such great research and personally, since I love research, just being able to go there and be praised by them, by a research institution on our work was really the highlight, or one of the highlights of my time.

I think the Capstone experience while it can be, what's a good adjective for it- I guess challenging, dreadful and one of the hardest parts of your experience here is often also one of the most rewarding as well. So, I'm going to give you a preview of the next question as well so everyone has time to consider the next question and give a full answer and I don't spring anything on you, and then I'm going to turn around. My follow up question is going to be one of the things that I think distinguishes the Bush School is the focus on Public Service. Makes it kind of weird and a little bit of an outlier, but I think there is this focus at the Bush School on service and serving the public and as you are beginning your career in these areas or continuing your career in these areas, I want maybe- curious what you each think about are some of the threats or challenges to quality public service in the modern world. Things from your own experience or things in the classroom, but what are some of the challenges to actually having a career in Public Service in 2019 and that you see moving forward. So, everyone be thinking about that.

Leila, I'd like to hear one of or a couple of your most prominent memories from your time at the Bush School.

Very much in line with Meggy, even after 8 months from Graduation, we have the same thoughts and gone the same direction. For me, as well, if I would like to put my Bush School experience into memories it would be so to speak before and after. My very first memory of the Bush School was when I arrived on campus and all this Texas heat was new to me and quite shocking.

Quite hot in August here.

Quite hot. I arrived to the main campus and I just asked around where the Bush School is and nobody could tell me. I don't know why, I guess [inaudible 00:22:55] So, I got lost a couple times before I got to the Bush School and when I got to the Bush School I was like oh my gosh, I'm not sure I'm in the right place, I'm not sure I want to spend two years here it's too hot, it's too humid. I cannot stay here. I was kind of in a slightly panicking mode. Then, just to fast forward two years later I was honored to be the


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graduate speaker, so, two years later you're standing on a stage just about to give a speech and you're looking at the audience and you know everybody and everybody are so close to your heart and you feel that you will not be losing these people no matter what in life, they will always be with you and you will always be ready to support them. I just asked my question like, how the hell did it happen? Just in two years.

Fly by.

Yup, two years fly by sometimes you can spend two years not making one new friend then they're everywhere just two years later with so many friends, so many colleges and so many life partners and so many memories to cherish. So, I guess that would be my memories from the Bush School, just the before and after experience.

The heat did not change, though.

It's the same. I think that's one of the things that as people think about graduate school that is often not at the front of their list, at least it wasn't for me when I started my Master's, but it really- your Master's program often professionalizes you not just with your education and learning the professional norms, but it ends up being the people that you go through life doing your craft with. Of course, there are other people that you meet along the way, but it really does give you the core the professional group that you can rely on and refer back to throughout your whole career. I was just, for example sharing with the three of you that this Summer I'm going to Taiwan for a fellowship. This come about in large part because the gentleman that invited me, we went to our PHD program together, right? He and I hadn't always kept in the best of touch but these kind of relationships, these core life experiences and the people you go through those experiences with stay with you I think for pretty much the rest of your life.

One of the things that I have found super fascinating about the Bush School is which we've highlighted on already is to which the degree to which there are people from all over the world. I mean, we're highlighting this tonight with the three of you and your backgrounds, but your professional community is a lot different when you think of it instead of just being Texas or just being your home state, when all of a sudden you have a global network of people who care about similar things as you do and attack those problems that are current in your own culture but all with this mindset of trying to help one another and trying to improve the quality of Public Service in the world. So, that part of it is really kind of cool.

Absolutely.

Hosic. Now this highlights on you, sir.

I think it's probably a Texas A&M thing, what I would call the Bush School thing because that's where I literally spent most of my time. It may sound absolutely- very common to all the Aggie's, but getting my Aggie ring was one of the best moments and I'll tell you why. For me, before when other people were getting a degree I was in my first year I asked myself, it's just a ring right? What significance could it possibly have? Then, I realized when I got mine that to every person that has some sort of significance, for me it epitomizes my entire journey of where I come from and where I was at that point in time.


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FIve years ago I wouldn't even think of studying or getting an education at all, let alone getting an education in a foreign country at one of the best education [inaudible 00:27:22] in the world, right? I realized how far I've come and it's important to me because whenever I look at it today, I wear it every time, probably too proud of an Aggie, every day when I look at that ring it reminds me of that journey. It encompasses everything I've gone through from preschool to regular mid school to undergrad and up, working in different capacities all the way up to Texas A&M at Bush School graduating and finally ending my studies and moving into the real work. That was one of the really important memories for me and to date will probably stay at the best memory for me at Texas A&M.

Yeah, it's interesting that you mention that, so when I was finishing up my graduate schooling I not really big into pomp and circumstance and these kind of big events and I remember a professor that I had who I'm still friends with is this gentleman named David Bradford, he's a health economist at the University of Georgia, and I remember him telling me he said, I always go to graduation. This is a big deal, these students that are graduating not only is it a big deal to them, but it's a big deal to their families and it's this big symbolic moment to them of all of the things that they have sacrificed, all of the things that they have done to get to this point and it's this one moment in time where they get to sit and reflect and think about how all the steps leading up to that moment at graduation and all the influence from their families from their friends, from their homes, from all of these things, graduation really represents that.

I thought it's kind of interesting to me that that's the memory that you highlight as I think about that because I do try to make essentially every graduation and to me it starts to become a little repetitive, right? I've been here for five academic years, this is the fifth one, so for me it starts to look kind of similar and I was always appreciative of David telling me that he always went to them because for the students it's the one time they get to do that, you don't do that again often. You certainly don't get your Master's again. It is this big meaningful and symbolically important day for you.

I'm glad that that's one of your favorite memories from your time.

So, Meggy, we're going to come back to you and I'm curious what you think of some of the challenges to public service. This is something as I've spent more time at the Bush School, I started to think of Public Service pretty seriously as its own profession. Even though it's not really treated like that more broadly in the US and government in particular is discouraged and non-profit work is often seen as not as important, but one of the things that I mentioned that I like about the Bush School is this focus on professionalizing people to public service and thinking about how they might go help others sort of in the vision that President Bush 41 had of serving others. As I look forward into 2019 I see all kinds of challenges for Public Service, I see concerns about constitutional democracies, I see concern about challenges for integrity of elections, I see a rise of Fascism which causes many concerns for serving the broad public.

I look at technological tools, something that we have all talked about together in the ways that those might help make public service more effective and efficient but also the ways in which it threatens those things and threatens kind of the human connections. I'm wondering as you look out and you finished up your time here and you're entering into public service some of the challenges you see for going out into the world and doing real public service.

Do you have an hour or two for this question? I think. [crosstalk 00:31:54] but first of all I just want to apologize to Hosic for keep missing your answers, I'm really sorry my computer is acting up somehow


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but I will ask you later what was your memory I understood something about graduation but I would be interested.

Talking about the challenges to public service I just want to start first by saying I was very happy to be at the Bush School even though I didn't chose it myself, it specially specifically for this focus that they have. Public Service is a noble calling and emphasizing the importance of public servants in the government, in the state, for the development of society. I think in many of our societies we don't really understand the value of public service. I think especially if you come from a developing country you are not respected for being in public administration. People usually if you say I work in public administration might look at you and say, ah how did you get there? Did you pay a bribe or did you have any connections and that's very unfortunate and I think it's something that hasn't changed in at least in my society and I think there are some commonalities we caught this happening in the US and the western world, but there are also some particular things that are particular to societies like ours developing societies, transitional societies and what not.

I think some of the challenges are this rise of as you mention Fascism or other [inaudible 00:33:15] leaders, I think it's not just a matter of the government, it's just not the matter of a leader who might be authoritarian but directly influences how the government is run. It influences how institutions are functioning and what really upsets me is that we have not and are not doing it right now, we are not doing condensed space policies. We are just doing policies because someone wants to, they are not based on facts or figures or studies or research and that something, especially the US, that I really caught an emphasis on and I really understood the importance of and now that I'm back it really frustrates me when I see a new policy being made and I ask myself these questions, where did you base it? Did you do research? What is your assessment, your needs analysis? There's nothing like that and I think for professionals going into public service in my country, that's a big problem because what they do and I have many friends who work there, they're just saying oh we just write letters all day.

We sign papers and we sign orders, we're not really thinking where this is going, where our institution is going so there's a lack of vision, there's a lack of really understanding what is your role in making this government this big body work at the end of the day? I think that's a big problem but also politics has a big influence in it. Personally, I've never worked in public administration which might be weird because I do consider myself a public servant, I just have used so far different avenues for doing that and honestly, not that I have tried, I haven't tried even, because I have made a conscience decision that I would only enter public administration if I could keep my ethics intact. If I don't need to sacrifice what I believe in just because I want to be there. I don't know if it's a right choice, but at the moment I'm just waiting for that moment to come.

I know that most of the time change comes from within organizations and I understand that, but if the problems are at the systemic level not just the internal institution level, it's a chain reaction you cannot if you enter you will get lost it's a vicious circle. I'm trying to help public servants from the outside, I currently work at the OSC maybe we'll talk later about what we are doing right now, but I try with my current job which is different than what I was doing before I'm directly helping public organizations I'm working with the [inaudible 00:35:47] for instance to strengthen the capacities and I see the struggle on both sides.


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There are many challenges but the idea that you need to have an ethical public administration but also base your decisions on evidence and also the influence of politics in public administration are big problems that we need to address still in the future.

Before we run, tell me a little more, it sounds to me that you're doing is pretty close to public service. So, what is it that you're doing right now and what do you think about what you do right now?

Sure. I work at the organization for security and corporation in Europe in the mission, in the presence in Albania in the security corporation department and because we are in the security corporation department we have to- because of the nature of the organization it's a different political organization that usually only helps the Government rather than society or outside the public realm. We help different public institutions to strengthen their capacities to do their work basically. I'm working with institutions like the minister of interior, we have a coordination center on CBE, we work closely with local government institutions.

Of course, It's a bit focused on security related issues. Countering violent extremism, public safety, local challenges to local security and we are helping with capacity development we are training officials, we are also working at the higher levels deputy ministers, ministers, so that they have a better strategy if they for security. For instance, we helped in the strategy in countering violent extremism, we helped the ministry with devising a strategy on community policing and on safety at the local level and we are trying to help them even implement this strategy. So, I'm happy that at this point I didn't do it before when I was only civil society, I'm part of the whole cycle of the public policy making. I'm part of the thinking of policies and then designing them, adoption and then implementation and validation. I have a role in each role of this process and I'm really happy for that.

Of course, not everything is 100% functioning but at least I can see little increments, little changes I think they are good for the overall public good.

If you don't consider that public service, then what do you consider as public service? That's great.

Leila.

Hi.

Hi. Let's hear about your thoughts on challenges to challenge the public service as you're sort of looking. I know your own career your next choices are still kind of up in the air, which is something we've talked about recently, but tell me a little but about what challenges you see for public service. Either in your own home country context or more broader or whatever you would like to share.

Mhm. I'll be precise. I see a lot of good and I see a lot of good changes, especially my country since I look here the closest. The challenge tha would see in general I guess throughout many countries is a lot of people with short term vision and very few people with long term vision. The turnover especially in Government that with every new party comes not only new policies but new direction that a particular country is going. This could be related to many countries including all ours that are on the screen, so I guess in public service if we have more people with long term vision and I very much value the Bush School because these are the values that they teach, it's that to serve people rather than to serve your


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own interests. This has also changed or formed a lot in my mind when I was at the Bush School, what public service is.

Another thing about the Bush School is giving the tools, as you have mentioned, can be used in any direction. You don't have to go and work for the government to be a public servant. What Meggy's doing is public service you can go to non-profit organization and serve people because public service is serving people. I don't have much to say about that, I try to concentrate on good but I would very much wish to have more long term visionaries in public service.

Tell us a bit, I know you're in a bit of a transition but what are you doing or what have you been doing since graduation and where are you right now?

Since graduation I moved to the [inaudible 00:40:43] closer to [inaudible 00:40:44] and I worked for Save the Children, it's a big international organization with a presence in 120 countries. There I was working in the office of the President, mainly developing policies- gender related policies, so we were trying to establish gender equality and diversity within the organization as well as programming in all 120 countries around the world. I was basically developing, helping the office of the President developing policies regarding that.

Very nice.

Now, just to we can go on back to my country and I feel like a tourist. I go places.

Sounds like fun.

Yes.

Hosic.

Sure. The thing is I would like to see on two levels, so the first one is pretty much from perspective of my home country because that's where I'm closes to and pretty much what Meggy already said, it's a combination of factors, right? There are a lot od threats in our region and it's basically stemming from the human nature and how we're eventually trained in society. That depends on a bunch of factors like different regimes like Leila mentioned. For example, in Pakistan, they've been changing a lot in terms of how what the policies they mean but also their manifestos. Every five year the country is changing in terms of policies and they're major policy shifts they aren't just minor changes, major bureaucratic changes, major visionary changes in terms of what you want to do let's say in education for that matter. You want to have a central curriculum you want to have a disintegrated curriculum for that matter in order to move forward. How do you move forward the poor sector looks like around 85% with little to no education for that matter, how [inaudible 00:42:49] for that matter.

Then, there are completely different perspectives on all these counts, which is fine, but then again when it comes to implementation there has to be consensus in terms of policy. That's where because of the bureaucratic nature, because of the political regimes, that unfortunately reigns supreme over all institution values, especially back home and most developing countries is disturbing. That, for me, eventually poses the biggest threat in terms of policy making because no matter even if you have good


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policies on paper, even if you have people willing to make changes in the office, once the bureaucratic structure isn't allowing you to do that, there's little you can do.

Money is a huge role in that, too. Where I think your economic policy is super important. For a developing country it's paying [inaudible 00:43:42] strong economic policy for that matter in order to keep the money flowing in the right direction. Combination of these factors and publicly or make sure these polices are effective in nature, it can't only be one successful institution, there has to be hundreds. That's the one from my whole country perspective.

From an international perspective, I think it's even more challenging because you have these conflicts within countries within regimes but it's very hard for them to come to consensus even within their own territories, so moving towards consensus on a regional level and on an international one is even harder given the technological gap that you have, given the different institution values that exist, given the lack of technological transfer that you have across borders. Yet there are international organizations and international NGO'S affecting that in a violitile way, but then again politics in a way overrules all of this in many cases. To start off effectively I think from within the country that's one of the biggest factors that need to be taken care if you want to move to an international level and to have effective policies in that regard.

One of the things that I sort of, the three of you have illuminated for me in our time together is thinking about the importance of quality rational institutions that have a history of doing things without paying a lot of political patriotige that are relatively meritocracies. These are things that really set the stage on how bureaucracy really gets done and it kind of is usually missing from the action and you have the political action that people see in the news but much less frequently are these conversations about what are the bureaucratic structures, what do they look like, how are they politically insulated, how do they go about doing their business, and to be able to do any of that you need resources and then the different challenges facing different countries and where they are along their development path and their access to resources is really important. That's often not the same types of questions that say US scholars are looking at.

There are a whole myriad of challenges that are presenting to countries depending on where they are and what they have going on. This is something that I continued to learn from the three of you. We're getting close to the 45 minute mark and so I have one final question. We've talked about some of your own background, we've talked about some of the threats to public service and I want to give you the chance to kind of give a pitch to the audience despite some of the challenges in public service, why is it worth it? Why is it worth taking your time? You three are very bright and have all kinds of different opportunities where public service doesn't have to be something that you're spending your time doing. So, why should other people take public service seriously and why should they join the profession and dedicate their lives to helping others? You can take that in any order you'd like, we're going to put Meggy on the spot to go first this time.

I think one of the biggest factors, there's failure at one point on the level of public policy making is most of these individuals in case of Pakistan and many developing countries, most of these public servants don't come from a background that they started public service or they don't have an understanding of what public service really means. How they can be effective if they put it into practice. Most of it is based on unfortunately lack of meritocracy just based on the fact that they want to be there for the sake of being there instead of making the change and putting their interests forward, national or public


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interests for that matter. I think once you have that opportunity that the Bush School gives you, and many other public institutions of public service give you is to understand that perspective is to understand the nature and the intuition of doing public service eventually. Which despite all these challenges and threats that we've talked about and beyond keeps you in check and what you want to achieve at the end of the day. Which sounds easy to put, but then again the political durations many many social social hindrances economic discrepancies, it's very easy to be weird.

Once you have that final game in mind of what you want to achieve [inaudible 00:48:45] making the smallest of changes, I think that one through a masters or even an undergraduate degree, everything that keeps you on track. This can be cemented where you're from, that's one of the best things about school. Hence the diversity and the international nature of Bush School is yes I liked being taken care of in the US as a public servant by the same knowledge [inaudible 00:49:14] back home so I think for me that's one of the biggest factors.

Very nice, thank you sir. Ladies?

Leila?

Meggy?

We're going back and forth.

If I may go back to my history a little bit and I think that might give a perspective to people who are indecisive whether they want to end up public service or not. When I was 18 I was like everyone else at that time, having a choice what to do with my life. I wanted to study Political Science because I thought to myself, I'm a political animal, everything I saw around me gave me this gut feeling, gave me this feeling in my heart that I need to do something about it. I had this urge, I want to do something that doesn't just give me the means to live a comfortable life, but also gives me the satisfaction and the responsibility that I'm doing something for other people as well. Then, my parents at the time were saying you know, we appreciate this but think about yourself first. Chose a degree that will give you some sustainability, economically, financially, or law those are the most famout subjects to study in Albania and maybe Georgia as well. I said to them, you know what, I'm going to study what I want and I'm going to be the best I can in it and I promise you that I will have a proper future and sustainable financial means to live a normal life.

Ten years into the decision, even more I don't know how many years now, but many years after that decision, I feel like I made the right choice because what I do is giving me a normal life but is giving me such pleasure to go every day to work despite all the craziness sometimes, despite feeling like I failed in something, I see that things are not getting better by the rate that I would like to. Even a small thing that effects someone else makes me so happy that I forget how much money we make at the end of the day. Something that we are often told at the Bush School, I remember I don't know who it was but they said thank you for choosing to be poor the rest of your life, but welcome to [crosstalk 00:51:36].

I feel, it was a joke but at the end of the day it makes me feel I don't care, it gave me that feeling that what I do is rewarding enough for me to look past this greed of having more and more money all the time and I feel like serving others really in itself, it's a huge accomplishment and at the end of the day


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you can say my actions did something good for someone else. What money can substitute that? So, go to public service.

Very nice. Alright, Leila you've held onto the final spot. Let's bring us home, let's see what you have to say.

I very much agree with Hosic and Meggy about this choice being the result of a personal journey. At the Bush School Dr. Olson told us that you won't make much money in this field and if you are making much money in this field you are doing something wrong and do not choose to go to public service unless you have this passion for public service. I think that this disease for me was a result of personal choice. An answer to that question what do I want to do in life? Which is very hard to find for many people and hard to get there but when you find it it's very comforting and it's very satisfying. For me, the answer to my question of existence is I want to help others and public service is very right place to be if you want to do that and if you want to do that Bush School is a very right place to be.

Yeah. i appreciate that, the push for the Bush School, that's good of you. For the audience though, they were not bribed in any way or urged to be anything but honest. Well, this is a lot of fun I can say on a personal note these are three former fantastic students that I was able to spend a decent amount of time with and they really do believe these things, I watched it play out in their lives at the Bush School and as they've left here and continue to think about the future ways to serve others and do their part to make the world a better place. It was an honor to be your instructor and now that each of you has left an honor to be your friend and colleague and to join you pursuing how to help others and spread quality public service because there aren't a lot of institutions that that's a primary goal is try to improve the quality of public service throughout the world and the Bush School I think takes quite seriously. I will let you all return to your days. I'm going to return to getting some sleep before tomorrow hits me upside the head here. Another busy day tomorrow, lot's of work to be done as I'm sure you all have work to do throughout your day.

It has been a pleasure to have this time to chat with each of you and we'll have to find an excuse to do it again sometime in the near future.

Was an honor thank you.

Thank you.


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bush.tamu.edu Panel 2.docx · Web viewAlright, welcome back to another episode of Bush School...

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Transcript of bush.tamu.edu Panel 2.docx · Web viewAlright, welcome back to another episode of Bush School...