Any brain-mind - relation mentioned in the suttas?

http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/showthread.php/1671-Any-brain-mind-relation-mentioned-in-the-suttas?p=13193[14/7/2558 1:06:58]

Forum Discussion Sutta, Vinaya and Pali Any brain-mind - relation mentioned in the suttas?

My deepest apologies to everyone who had sent me PMs and messages via the contact forms over the past few weeks. I was called away urgently for some work, and am only just back and able to attend to my Community duties. I will go through my messages over the next few days, and again, I'm terribly sorry for not being able to reply sooner. Much metta, PJ

Thread: Any brain-mind - relation mentioned in the suttas?

Remember Me?

RegisterHelp

What's New? Articles Blogs Groups Dhammaloka Live Dhammaloka

AboutNew Posts FAQ Calendar Forum Actions Quick Links Advanced Search

Results 1 to 5 of 5

Thread Tools Display

30th-March-2015, 05:23 PM

Any brain-mind - relation mentioned in the suttas?

Dear Ajahn, I was wondering if there is any mention of the brain-mind - relation in any of the suttas? What was the Buddhas view on the brain itself, did he ever speak of it as merely an organ, a facilitator of functions / catalyst for an overlaying mind? Did he adress this relationship in any concrete way?

I am pretty sure I read somewhere that the Buddha expressed parallells to what we today understand as a quantum physics-like dimensions of non-time, non-space (in the context of a superior reality), but I havent been able to find it in any of the texts. Am I mistaken, or are there any such similes or parallells from the Buddha? Would this simply be the Jhana-realms and beyond?

I am very curious as to how this comes to expression in the old texts, and I hope you can shed some light on this matter.

Thank you for your time and kind reply,

with Metta

T.

#1

Join Date:Location:Posts:

Jan 2015Norway67

Tore Aune

Member

Reply With Quote

31st-March-2015, 07:45 PM

Dear Tore,

The Buddha doesn't seem to say much, if anything, about the brain. Even in places where he divides the body up into its anatomical parts, such as the 31 parts of the body mentioned in the Satipahna Sutta, the Buddha does in fact not mention the brain. Only in later literature, such as the Visuddhimagga, is the brain mentioned as the 32nd part of the body.

#2

Ajahn Brahmali

Sangha ModeratorSenior Member

Forum

http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/index.phphttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/forum.phphttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/forum.phphttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/forumdisplay.php/1-Discussionhttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/forumdisplay.php/1-Discussionhttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/forumdisplay.php/8-Sutta-Vinaya-and-Palihttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/forumdisplay.php/8-Sutta-Vinaya-and-Palihttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/showthread.php/1671-Any-brain-mind-relation-mentioned-in-the-suttashttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/forum.phphttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/register.phphttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/register.phphttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/faq.phphttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/faq.phphttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/activity.phphttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/activity.phphttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/content.phphttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/content.phphttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/blog.phphttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/blog.phphttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/group.phphttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/group.phphttp://www.dhammaloka.org.au/dhammaloka-live.htmlhttp://www.dhammaloka.org.au/dhammaloka-live.htmlhttp://www.dhammaloka.org.au/http://www.dhammaloka.org.au/http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/content.php/8http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/content.php/8http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/search.php?do=getnew&contenttype=vBForum_Posthttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/faq.phphttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/calendar.phphttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/search.phphttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/showthread.php/1671-Any-brain-mind-relation-mentioned-in-the-suttas?p=13186&viewfull=1#post13186http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/member.php/9809-Tore-Aunehttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=13186http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=13186http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=13186http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=13186http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=13186http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/showthread.php/1671-Any-brain-mind-relation-mentioned-in-the-suttas?p=13193&viewfull=1#post13193http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/member.php/7-Ajahn-Brahmalihttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/forum.phphttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/forum.php

Any brain-mind - relation mentioned in the suttas?

http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/showthread.php/1671-Any-brain-mind-relation-mentioned-in-the-suttas?p=13193[14/7/2558 1:06:58]

When the Buddha speaks of the duality physical/mental, he normally juxtaposes the mind with the whole body. If you think about it, it is fairly obvious that the mind does not just reside in the head. Emotions are often felt in the chest area, and the powerful joy (pti) that one can experience in meditation is often felt throughout the whole body. I think it is reasonable to say the mind and the body are in fact co-extensive, that is, they occupy roughly the same space. I think the focus on the brain is more of a modern phenomenon, and I suspect that the Buddha would not have regarded this as justified.

When you die this is taking into account both the suttas and reports of near death experiences you mind is released from your physical body. But your new existence still has a physical aspect, a mind-made body. This new physical body is essentially the same as your old one like drawing of a straw from its sheath, to use a simile found in the suttas. So again you can see the close relationship between the mental and the physical. Western philosophy tends to dismiss ideas of mind/body dualism, but from a Buddhist point of view there is no such strict separation between the two. As a consequence, the critique of dualism does not really apply to Buddhism.

Regarding dimensions of non-time and non-space, I would say the closest you come to this in the suttas is in the description of samdhi. Deep samdhi is timeless in a very real sense because nothing is moving. Time is only meaningful in the context of change. In the deepest states even space itself disappears and you are left only with the perception of nothingness. Pretty mind-boggling!

I would be careful, however, with trying to see parallels between modern physics and early Buddhism. It is very hard to know whether the parallels reflect real similarities or whether the likeness is just superficial. It all tends to get very speculative. That said, both physics and Buddhism are trying to describe reality, and as such it would be very inconvenient if they are not compatible!

With metta from Perth.

Join Date:Location:Posts:

Dec 2010Australia739

Reply With Quote

31st-March-2015, 10:32 PM

Dear Tore and Ajahn Brahmali, I hope you don't mind me butting in, but I thought this could be relevant.

I was listening to one of the sutta talks, I don't remember exactly which one, but the guy who disrobed and ordained seven times (where the rule comes from) was a lay follower taking some guy from another sect to see the Buddha, and the mind-made body came up, and the Buddha mentioned several times that the mind-made body was "not deficient in any sense organ". This wasn't what the sutta was about, but it was mentioned when talking about the mind-made body.

Interestingly, in Pim van Lommels book "Consciousness Beyond Life: The Science of the Near-Death Experience" there is an anecdote about a a

#3

Join Date:Location:Posts:

Jun 2013Norway12

Erik O'Donnell

New Member

http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/member.php/7-Ajahn-Brahmalihttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=13193http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=13193http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=13193http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=13193http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=13193http://www.dhammaloka.org.au/component/k2/itemlist/category/21-sutta-study.htmlhttp://www.amazon.com/Consciousness-Beyond-Life-Near-Death-Experience/dp/0061777269/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1427811200&sr=8-3&keywords=science+of+near+death+experienceshttp://www.amazon.com/Consciousness-Beyond-Life-Near-Death-Experience/dp/0061777269/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1427811200&sr=8-3&keywords=science+of+near+death+experienceshttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/showthread.php/1671-Any-brain-mind-relation-mentioned-in-the-suttas?p=13194&viewfull=1#post13194http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/member.php/5447-Erik-O-Donnell

Any brain-mind - relation mentioned in the suttas?

http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/showthread.php/1671-Any-brain-mind-relation-mentioned-in-the-suttas?p=13193[14/7/2558 1:06:58]

Previous Thread | Next Thread

blind mind having a near death experience where he reported that he could see during his near death experience. Which is basically what you would expect if the mind-made body is not deficient in any sense organ.

Anyway, I thought that was kinda cool.

I'll edit this post if I remember what sutta it was. And I'm lending out my copy of Pim van Lommel's book right now so I can't give the page of the blind man anecdote. I also don't remember if the man was blind from birth, or if he'd been blinded during his life.

Reply With Quote

1st-April-2015, 02:08 AM

Dear Ajahn, again thank you for your clear insight and guidance. This is very valueable to my understanding.

Metta

Tore

#4

Join Date:Location:Posts:

Jan 2015Norway67

Tore Aune

Member

Reply With Quote

1st-April-2015, 09:33 AM

Dear Erik,

Please butt in at any time!

Yes, the idea that the mind-made body is not deficient in any sense organ is found in several places in the suttas, such as DN2 and MN77.

With metta.

#5

Join Date:Location:Posts:

Dec 2010Australia739

Ajahn Brahmali

Sangha ModeratorSenior Member

Reply With Quote

Quick Navigation Sutta, Vinaya and Pali Top

You may not post new threadsYou may not post repliesYou may not post attachmentsYou may not edit your posts

Posting Permissions

BB code is OnSmilies are On[IMG] code is On[VIDEO] code is OnHTML code is Off

Forum Rules

http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/showthread.php/1671-Any-brain-mind-relation-mentioned-in-the-suttas?goto=nextoldesthttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/showthread.php/1671-Any-brain-mind-relation-mentioned-in-the-suttas?goto=nextnewesthttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=13194http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=13194http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=13194http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=13194http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=13194http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/showthread.php/1671-Any-brain-mind-relation-mentioned-in-the-suttas?p=13196&viewfull=1#post13196http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/member.php/9809-Tore-Aunehttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=13196http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=13196http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=13196http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=13196http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=13196https://suttacentral.net/en/dn2#bps87https://suttacentral.net/en/mn77#38http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/showthread.php/1671-Any-brain-mind-relation-mentioned-in-the-suttas?p=13197&viewfull=1#post13197http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/member.php/7-Ajahn-Brahmalihttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/member.php/7-Ajahn-Brahmalihttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=13197http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=13197http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=13197http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=13197http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=13197http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/showthread.php/1671-Any-brain-mind-relation-mentioned-in-the-suttashttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/misc.php?do=bbcodehttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/misc.php?do=showsmilieshttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/misc.php?do=bbcode#imgcodehttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/misc.php?do=bbcode#videocodehttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/misc.php?do=showrules

Any brain-mind - relation mentioned in the suttas?

http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/showthread.php/1671-Any-brain-mind-relation-mentioned-in-the-suttas?p=13193[14/7/2558 1:06:58]

Contact Us Community Home Archive Top

All times are GMT +8. The time now is 02:06 AM.

Buddhist Society of Western Australia Dhammaloka Community

http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/sendmessage.phphttp://community.dhammaloka.org.au/http://community.dhammaloka.org.au/archive/index.phpcommunity.dhammaloka.org.auAny brain-mind - relation mentioned in the suttas?1pbi10aGUtc3V0dGFzP3A9MTMxOTMA: form3: vb_login_username: Your Namevb_login_password_hint: Passwordinput7: cookieuser: 01pbi10aGUtc3V0dGFzP3A9MTMxOTMA: form1: query: submit: