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Episode3.18TheMonáeTestwithTaylorCrumptonFebruary15,2019

Hannah(Host): 00:08 [Music:"MeshShirt"byMomJeans]HiI'mHannahMcGregorandthisisSecretFeministAgenda.AndonthedayI'mrecordingthis,it'sValentine'sDay.SoHappyValentine'sDay.AndalsonowyouknowhowfarinadvanceIedittheseepisodes.It'snotfar.It'snotfarinadvanceatall.Valentine'sDay,Iknowitwasareallyfraughtdayforalotofpeople,andjustthismorningandIwaslisteningtosomebodyonapodcastsaythatitseemslikepeopleeitherloveValentine'sDayorhateValentine'sDay,andIactuallyfeelprettyneutralaboutit.It'saday.Iknowthatit'sniceforsomepeople.Ihopethatitisn'tnotniceforyoubecauseingeneralIhopethingsaren'tnotniceforyou.ButIsayworstcasescenario,weallgettobuydiscountchocolatetomorrowandthat'salwaysaneventtocelebrate.Soifyouarelisteningtothisepisodeonthedayit'sreleased,whichshouldbeFebruary15th,celebrateDayAfterValentine'sDaybybuyingdiscountchocolateinaboxshapedlikeaheart.Ican'twaittodothat,honestly.Itwasn'treallyamyplans,butnowthatI'vedescribedevenchocolateoutofaheartshape,I'mreallystoked.Anyway,beforewegetintotheepisode,IwanttoreplugthetwoeventsthatI'mpluggingrightnow.Apologiesfortheplugs,butlisten,thisiswhatpodcastsarefor.Weplugliveevents.SofirstupthereistheeventthatIamhostingthatisaboutCanadianliterature.It'shappeningonFebruary27thatthedowntownbranchoftheVancouverPublicLibrary.Itstartsat7:00PM.There'sgoingtobefouramazingwritersthere;we'regoingtobehavingaconversationaboutCanLit.There'sgoingtobecoolbookstobuy.It'sgoingtobeawesome.I'llbewearingsomeveryfunlipstick.Ihopetoseeyouthere.It'safreeevent.AndthenseconduponMarch16thIhaveapanelattheGrowingRoomFeministLiteraryFestivalonpodcastingandfeminismwithsomeotherincrediblepanelists.That's4:30PMto6:30PMonMarch16th.YoucancheckouttheGrowingRoomFestivalprogramforfulldetails,locationandstufflikethat,butthatalsopromisestobeareallygreatevent.Ifeelliketheseintrosareusuallylonger.WhatdoIusuallytalkabout?Nevermind.Let'sjust,let'sjustmeetourguest.[Music:"MeshShirt"byMomJeans]TaylorCrumptonisafreelancewriterwhousesherplatformtoadvocateforthelivedexperiencesofBlackwomenandgirlsandculture.CrumptonisacontributortoseveralpublicationsincludingTeenVogue,VibeMagazine,and

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TheGuardian,amongothers.[Music:"LearnedFromTexas"byBigKrit]

Hannah(Host): 03:05 Sowelcome.ThankyousomuchforjustbeingwillingtobeintroducedtoatotalstrangeronTwitterandthencomeonmypodcast.

Taylor: 03:13 Youknowwhat,someofthebestfriendshipsI'vemadehavebeenthroughTwitter.

Hannah(Host): 03:17 Imean,sameandthatincludespeopleI'vestillnevermetinreallife.

Taylor: 03:21 Same.Oneofmylikegoodfriends,Ihavetheirphonenumber.LikewehavemutualfriendsincommoninOakland,stillnevermetthem.

Hannah(Host): 03:28 Inthesamecity?Incredible.

Taylor: 03:30 They'reaghost.

Hannah(Host): 03:30 Yeah.Andmaybetheyare,maybethey'rejustlikeareallyconvincinglikeTwitterbotthat'slikereallygotyournumber,butthat'sokay.

Taylor: 03:40 Ohgood.SomeonecalledmeabottodaycauseIwentintweeted"#IhopeIhaveBlackLGBTkids."Andsomeonewhoquotetweeteditandwithlike"thesebotsareoutofcontrol."AndIwaslike,"wow,somebodyreallythinksI'mabot."Like,Ihavemadeit.

Hannah(Host): 03:57 Ididit.Iwhat'stheoppositeofthe,ohnowIcan'tevenrememberthenameofthetest.The,theTuringtest.

Taylor: 04:05 Yeah.

Hannah(Host): 04:06 Likewhat'stheanti-Turingtestwhereyouarehumanconvincedsomebodyelsethatyou'reactuallyacomputer?

Taylor: 04:11 Dirtycomputer.ShoutouttoJanelleMonáe.Ithappened.

Hannah(Host): 04:13 Oh,wecancallittheMonáetest!Therewego.I'mproudofus.[Laughs]SoIbelievetheoriginstoryof,ofthisconversationisthatyoutweeted"morepeopleshouldhavemeontheirpodcasts,"andthensomebodytaggedmeinandIwaslike,"I'mhere.I'mhere.I'vegotapodcast."IwentandlookedatyourTwitterbioanditsaysbylinesatTeenVogue,Playboy,Paper

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Magazine,HelloGiggles,Bustle,Guardian,andGlamourMag.AndIwaslike,"yeah,okay,wellyouseemveryinteresting."Soundsgreat.

Taylor: 04:48 You'relike,"she'sawriterorsomething."It'slike,alittlebit.Youknow?

Hannah(Host): 04:52 [Laughs]Yeah.Justacouple,justacoupleofplaces.SoIwanttostart,causeI'veseen,nowthatIgettospendabunchoftimecreepingaroundonyourTwitterpage,Ihaveseenthatyoudohaveabackgroundingradschoolandnowarewritingforlike,alloftheseveryexcitingandnon-academicplatforms.Socanyoujusttellusalittlebitaboutsortofhowyougottothepointofbeingafreelancewriter?

Taylor: 05:16 Yeah,Iwouldloveto.SobackinmyundergraddaysIwasstudyingsocialwork,psychology,andsociology.I'mlikeverymuchofasocialserviceslike,typeofgirl.Like,let'stalkaboutepidemiologyresearchandlikeracismandsexism.Likethatislikemyniche.So,IwenttoschoolatoneofthemostconservativeChristiancollegesintheUnitedStates.Wehaddailychapel,OldTestament,BibleTestament,AdvancedBible.

Hannah(Host): 05:50 AdvancedBible.

Hannah(Host): 05:50 Yes.Itookethics.Sowewouldalwayshavetotalkabout,"wouldyoukillthefatmanornot?"

Hannah(Host): 05:55 [Laughs]SorryIhavenoideawhatthecontextofthatis,butitsoundsreallybad.

Taylor: 06:00 It'sreallyterrible.Andnowthinkingaboutit,Idon'tknowifitwaslike,thefatmanwasonthetrain,orthefatmanwaslikeinapool,butalsointhepooltherewasapregnantwoman.Itwasjustalot.Itwasalot.AndaroundthetimeIwasanundergradwaswhenTexaswasgoingthroughalotoflikeanti-abortion,anti-reproductivelegislation,especiallyaroundthewholeWomen'sHealthSupremeCourtcase.SoIwasdoingalotoflikeabortionorganizingworkinWestTexas,becausebeforeIwasdoingabortionorganizingwork,Iwashavinglikemylittlelike,AngelaDavismoment,whichIthinklike,everyBlackqueerundergradgoes,"I'mgoingtochopoffmyhere,here'smyafro,likelet'stalkaboutBlackliberation."Andthat'swhatkindofledmetoTwitteractuallybecauseIwastryingtodoalltheseactionsandhaveitlikeupliftedbecauseforBlackstudentswhoaregoingtolike,ruralPWIsthere'snotalotofonthegroundsupport.Soeverythinghastobe,youknow,amplify,amplified

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throughsocialmedia.Andthat'swhatkindagotmeintolike,reallyusingTwitterasaplatformtousemyvoicetoadvocate.SoTwitterkindofledmeandto,youknow,writeop-edandlikeusingmediaforadvocacy,whichIthinkistrulyabeautifulthingforthosewholike,arekeptoutofalotofthoseconversations.FromthenIwasstartingto,youknow,reallylearnliketheinnerworkingsofhowtogetmyvoiceouttothoseinlegislationandthosewhoarestakeholders.AndIwasreallyblessedtobepartofthisfellowshipcalledYoungPeopleForthatkindoftrainedme.BecausebeforeIwasjustkindofliketheloud,angrystudentactivist,butlikeIwasn'tbeingsustainable,ortakingcareofmyself,orlike,youknow,checkinginwithlikeotherfolkswhohavedonethisworkbeforemewhocouldreallymentorme.AndIwenttothisonetrainingthroughtheOpEdProject,whichisusedtotrainthefolksfrommarginalizedidentitiestogettheir,likewritingoutinnationalandlocalplatforms.Andit'sfunnybecausewhenIwasalittlegirl,IlikewrotethisbookcalledSwimGirlandIlike,waslike,"I'mgoingtobelikeaauthor,"like,"I'msohappy.Likeit'slikeaBlackgirllearninghowtoswim.Thisismything."TheninhighschoolmyAPlitteachertoldmeIhadaterriblevoiceandlikeIshouldneverwrite,andjustlikeripmywholeentirelikeauthordreamsapart.ButIwassoblessedtogotothistrainingbecauseIwasabletowriteaboutthisexperiencehadoncampuswherethisgirlofferedmeaDIYabortionsolutionofmilkandbleachwhenshesawmeleavemyexpartner'shouseonemorning.AndIwassoshookthatlike,peoplewith[unclear]onmycampusweremakingDIYabortionmedicines,becausealsoliketherewasnoreproductivehealthservicesavailableforpeopleoncampusbecauseyoucouldbeexpelledforhavingsexifyougotcaught.

Hannah(Host): 09:01 Oh.

Hannah(Host): 09:01 Iwasdoingallofthisreproductivework,andIgottrainedtodothisop-edanditgotpickedupbyGlamouraroundlikethesummerofwhentheyweredeciding.AndIwassolike,honoredandlikehappygetthisoutthereandthatwaslikemykindoffirstentryway,butIdidn'tthinkanythingaboutit.Iwaslike,youknow,thisisreallyforthe5.4millionpeopleofreproductiveageinTexaswhoaregoingtolosecareandlikethat.Thosearemypeople.Icareaboutthem.AndthenlikeIthinkmaybesixtoeightmonthslater,Iwasdrivingtomycousin'sweddinginTexasandIwaspulledoverbyapoliceofficerbecauseIwasactuallybeingpushedintothemedianbythis18-wheelerandIhadtospeedofffromhimbecausehehadalreadyknockedthemirroroffmycar.

Hannah(Host): 09:46 Oh!

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Taylor: 09:46 Andthiswasaroundtheeraoflike,SandraBland.SolikealwaysbeinghypervigilantofwhereIwas.Andhepullsmeoverandwasjusthelladisrespectful.Likehewaschastisingme.Hewaslookingatmychest.Hedrewbloodwhenhetookmydriver'slicensetolike,runitforregistrationorwhatever.Andhehadlikehishandonhisholsterthewholeentiretime.SohereIamlike,aBlackwomaninTexas.SandraBlandjustdied.I'mjusttryingtoseemyfamily.ThisisactuallyanareaofTexasthatI'mfamiliarwith,thatbackinthedaywithactuallyknowntoputnoosesonBlackpeople'slike,necksandtheywoulddriveoffinthepickuptruckstokillthem.SoIwassoshookbythatexperienceandsogratefultolike,livefromitthatmygotoistowriteaboutit.Youknow,Iwaslike,"Ineededtogetthisouthereandthesepeopleneedtobeheldaccountable.Thisisnotjust."Andthatpoliceofficerreallycouldhaveliketakenmylife,andIevenputinthepiece,"Ithinklikeinthatmomentyoucouldhavebeenlikethejury,thejudge,andtheexecutionerandlikeIwouldhavenosay."AndIthinkthat'swhenIlikereallystartedtodefinemywritingvoicewhereIwaslike,"thisissomethingthatI'mgoodat,thatpeoplearehearingandlistening."AndfromthereIwaslike,alwaysonTwittertryingtofindwritingopportunities.IrememberitwasafterTrump'selectionwherelike,itseemedliketheworldwenttohell.Likeitwasjustlike...

Hannah(Host): 11:21 Imeanitdid,right?

Taylor: 11:23 Imeanitdid.Itwasalreadythere,butitwaslike--

Hannah(Host): 11:26 Somehowalreadyasbadaspossibleandalso...

Taylor: 11:30 Itwasjustahotmessexpress.Andthereweresomanyeditorsthatwerelikeaskingforpitchesandcalls.AndIrememberIwaslisteningto,IthinkNinaSimone,itwaslike"ToBeYoung,Gifted,andBlack,"andIpitchedthispiecetoTeenVogueaboutlike,whatit'sgoingtomeantobeyoung,giftedandBlackinTrump'sAmerica.Youknow,Iwaslike,"whatisitgoingtobeforuswhoare,youknow,alwaysorganizingandfightingandtryingtouplift.Andnowwejusthavelike,thisheavilywhitegovernmentthat'sjustafterusforexisting,forjustbeingfullypresentintheworld.Longstoryshort,itdidn'tgetpickedup.Like,IgotghostedbyTeenVoguethroughlittlebit.

Hannah(Host): 12:13 [Laughs]Rude.

Hannah(Host): 12:16 [Laughs]NowIlikeregularlycontribute,butIwasemailingfolks,Iwaslike,"what'sgoingon?Likenoone'sgettingincontactwithme,"andtheywouldn'trespondmycalls.Andthenone

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daylikePhilipputhisemailuponTwitterandIliketweetedhimandIwaslike,"Hey,soIemailedthiseditormaybelikefourorsixmonthsagoaboutthispiece,what'sgoingon?"Andhewaslike,"shenolongerworksforus."AndIwaslike,"Oh!Okay,likethat'swhat'sup."Soheloopedinalloftheseeditors.Andlike,keepinmind,Iwasjustfinishingmysenioryearsolike,I'dalreadybeenacceptedtogradschool.Ifinishedmysocialworkpracticum.I'mpreparingforaresearchconference.SoI'mlikedoingthisweirddoubledutylikeSabrinatheTeenageWitch,whereit'slikebydayI'mpreparingforlike,anadvancedmastersprogramatlike,theUniversityofPennsylvaniaandbynightI'mlike,respondingtoeditoremailsandIhavelikenoformaltraininginjournalismbutlikeIreallythinkI'magoodwriter.

Hannah(Host): 13:22 Yeah.

Taylor: 13:22 AndhelinkedmeupwithAllisonMaloneywho'stheNewsandPoliticseditoratTeenVogueandshewaslike,"Ireadyouridea,we'relookingforsomepeopletocontributeandIwouldloveforyouto,youknow,dosomeofoursmallerstories."Andlikewhenyou'reanundergradandasenioratTeenVogueislike,"Iwanttowriteforyou."Ilostmyshit.

Hannah(Host): 13:42 Nokidding.

Taylor: 13:42 Like,Ilikejumpedupanddown.Likemyroommateswerelike,"areyouokay?Likewhat'sgoingon?"AndlikethefirstdoorIthinkIwroteaboutlike,analligatorinFlorida,butIwassoproudofit.Iwaslike,"IhaveaTeenVoguebyline.Like,Iamfuckingthisshitup.Like,it'ssogreat."

Hannah(Host): 13:59 Okay.Ireadthatpieceandit'samazingbecausethegirlinthepieceuseslike,skillsthatshelearnedatlike,analligatoreducationalcentertofreeherlegfromthejawsofagator.Iwaslike,"whatthefuck?!"

Taylor: 14:14 Like,siswaspopping.Shereallywasliketakingmentalnotes:"incaseofemergencyI'mjustgoinggonna...".

Hannah(Host): 14:22 Yeah!

Taylor: 14:22 AndthenfromthenIthinkonceAllison,youknow,sawmyvoiceandmycraft.Shereallystartedsendingmorestoriesmywaythat,youknow,centeredBlackwomen,whichIlove.Iwillalwaysusemywritingtocentreourlivedexperiences.Andlike,mydefinitionofBlackwomenalsoincludestransandgender

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nonconformingfolks,soalsoBlackfemmes.AndfromthereI'vejustbeenreallyabletobuildabeautifulportfoliothatI'mproudofthatalso,youknow,talksabouthowthesesystemsimpactus,youknow,especiallyinrelationtolike,policyandpolitics,whichismybackground.IwenttoanMSWprogramandIstudiedlike,homelessnessandlike,affordablehousingandhowthataffectsyou.SolikeanytimeIcanusethatsweetMSWthatItookalotofstudentloansoutfor--

Hannah(Host): 15:10 [Laughs]

Taylor: 15:10 --inmymywritingtoinformlike,mypracticeisverybeautiful.ButnowIthink,Ifeellikethere'stoomanyeggsinonebasket.Like,there'ssomuchpoliticsfromthisadministration,andtolikeconstantlyengageinwatchingthatcanbesodraining.

Hannah(Host): 15:27 Yeah.

Taylor: 15:27 SoIalwayslikehowpopcultureisaniterationofourlives.SoI'vesorofbeentryingtodoalittlebitlikepopcultureandentertainmentwriting,becauselike,representationmattersandfromayoungagethat'salsoinfluential,maybeatsometimesasinfluentialaspolicy.Sotryingto,youknow,figureouthowthatadvocacyworkcanalsooperateinlike,thesepopculturemediums.Youknow?

Hannah(Host): 15:52 Yeah.AndthatIfoundthatreallyinterestingwhen,whenlookingatyourworkisthatsortofmovebackandforthbetweenlike,you'recoveringsortofcontemporarypoliticaleventsand,andthingsthatarehappening,andthenalso,youknow,writingabouttheSabrinarebootandtherepresentationofBlackcharactersinthatseries.Andthat'sreallyinterestingtohearyouframethatsortofaddingpopcultureintoyourworkasalmostakindofrelieffromjustlike,therelentlessnessofthe24hournewscycle.Like,thesameissuesthatyou'reconcernedwithinyourworkarestillcomingupobviously,butlike,maybeit's,maybeit'slesshorrifying.

Taylor: 16:36 [Laughs]Youknow,itwasfunny,Itweetedtheotherday,Iwaslike,"cansomemusiceditorhitmeupcuzI'mtiredaboutwritingaboutlike,whitesupremacyallthetime"andthismusiceditorfromlike,Vibelike,literallyrepliedandshewaslike--

Hannah(Host): 16:47 Hiiii.

Taylor: 16:47 --shewaslike,"slidingintomyDMs,sis."AndIwaslike,"allright."SoIactuallybeenblessedtohaveapiecehopefully

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comingoutnextyearforVibeMagazine.Justveryhonored.Ialwayslikeachallenge,youknow?

Hannah(Host): 17:02 Yeah.

Taylor: 17:02 Musicjournalism,what?It'snotlikeRollingStoneorliketheNewYorkTimes.Ithinkpeoplelikeverymuchdismissit.Soit'sreallylike,anhonortogetintoanarenathatI'mnotskilledandtrainedincauseIwaslike,"ohwow,likey'allhaveawholeentiredifferenttoolboxthanlookingatpoliciesandlegislation,"becausemusicissointimatethatlike,I'mreallyhonoredtobegoingintothislike,newnextjourney.

Hannah(Host): 17:27 Yeah,Ifindthatthemusicjournalismissucha,afascinatinggenreandmaybeit'sforthatreason.Like,asalsoanacademic,likeIfeellikeyouknow,we'retrainedinacertainlevelofresearchcompetencythatbasicallyanytopicyouareaskedtotackle,youcouldbelike,"Icandosomeresearchandfigureoutwhat'sgoingonhereandintelligentlyaboutthisthing."Butwhenyouaddartintotheequation,there'sadifferentskillset,andadifferentlanguage,andadifferentvocabulary.AndIthinkthatalot,I'maliteraryscholarbytraining,andsoIfeellikeIknowwhattodowhenIgetatext,andIkindoffeellikebyextensionIknowwhattodowithamovieoraTVshowis,especiallywhenitcomestothingslikenarrativeandrepresentationandpoliticsandpowerandhowthesethingsplayout.Right?Likeyou,youjustkindofhaveasenseofhowthosethingswork.Butmusicjustfeelslikethistotallydifferentworld.Similarlytoartcriticism,right?Like,whenpeoplespeakintelligentlyaboutvisualartandmusic,I'm,IalwaysfeelliketheyaretappingintosomelanguagethatI,thatIjustdon'thave.IlovelisteningtopeoplespeakintelligentlyaboutmusiccuzIcanlistentosomethingandbelike,"Ihaveenjoyedthisbutcouldnotarticulatetoyouwhy."

Taylor: 18:47 Same,Butmusicissointimate.Youknow?It'slikewhenyou'reinloveforthefirsttimeandyoucan'tstoplisteningtothatonesong.Like,youknow,CardiBisgettingadivorcefromOffset.Soinresponse,IwaslisteningtoBeyonce'sclassic"Me,MyselfandI,"andIwaslike,"ohmygod,thisissoemotional!"AndevenBeyonce'svocalssoundcompletelydifferentlike,fromnow.AndIevenlike,transportedbackintimewhenIwasalittlegirlanditpremieredonBET.IrememberthenextdayIwenttoschoolandbrokeupwithlike,myimaginaryboyfriend.Iwaslike,"it'sover.Beyoncetoldme,myself,andI.".

Hannah(Host): 19:24 [Laughs].

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Taylor: 19:24 Alsosheinfluencesalotofmyrelationshipdecisions.SohopefullyasIgetolderIwon'tbreakupwithpeopleondemandbecauseofher.

Hannah(Host): 19:35 Okay.

Taylor: 19:35 Soitmighthappen.

Hannah(Host): 19:35 [Laughs]Listen,youdowhatyou'retold.Didyouhear?Probablyyouheard,butdidyouhearthatshewasplayingaprivateconcertattheweddingoflike,thewealthiestpersonIndia?

Taylor: 19:48 Yes!AndIsawtheguestlist.Itwaslike,HillaryClinton,NickJonas,hermom,ofcoursewasthere.Like,herbookingfeeis$2million.AndI'mjustlike,"Beyonce,Iloveyou."Butthenalsoliketheradicalinmeanslike"Godyou'resuchacapitalist!"

Hannah(Host): 20:06 [Laughs].

Taylor: 20:06 "There'sacastesystem.Andlike,wheredidhisfortunecomefromandlike,whoismarginalizedbyit?"Sothere'slike,theBeyhiveandthenlike,thesocialworkerbytrainingthatisjustlike,"Ahhh!!"

Hannah(Host): 20:17 Imeanyouremindedmerightnowif,IthinkIsawalotofwhen"Formation"firstcameout,andtheninanotherwaysawalotofwhenohgod,whatwasthatvideocalled?"ThisisAmerica"--

Taylor: 20:32 Mmhmm.

Hannah(Host): 20:32 --cameout.AndtheoneI,Ireadthe"Formation"onesmorecloselycauseIalwayscaremoreaboutwomen'sart.Buttherewas,therewasalotoflike,BlackfeministscholarswhoIfollowwhowerewatchingthatandreadingitasatextandbeinglike,"Blackliberationisn'tgoingtocomeviacapitalism."Andthenalotofotherpeoplebeinglike,"wouldanybodywhowasn'taBlackwomanartistsbehelduptothisoutrageousidealthatyourartneedstosimultaneouslybeincredibleandalsoclearlyarticulateapoliticalagendaforliberation?"Like,thisseemslikeanawfullot.Like,areweleavinganyspaceforpeopletojustmakeart?

Taylor: 21:10 Iknow!AndIfeelsuchawayaboutlike,Beyonceandwhatshemeansforuslike,asBlackwoman,whatshemeansforpopcultureandentertainment.AndIactually,afterherGrammyperformancewhenshewaslikebeautifullypregnantwithSir

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andRumi,andshewaslikeinspiredbyallofthesebeautifulbrujasandlikeAfricanIndigenousreligionslikeOshunandandyouknowYemayaandherpregnancypictures.Isawlike,editorsonTwitteragain,youknow,askingforpitches.Andthiswasstillwhenlike,TeenVoguewasn'tpoweringbackatme.SoIhaveimpostersyndrome,butIwaslike,"I'mgoingtoshootmyshot."AndIwrotethispieceaboutlikewhatthatmeansaslike,acelebrationofBlackmotherhood.AndhowBlackmotherhoodisintrinsicallysomagicalbecauselikewehavethehighestmaternalmortalityrates.Andalsolike,whatdoesitmeantoboreaBlackchildintothisworldwherelike,onsightthey'realreadylike,dehumanized,andobjectified,andvilified.Andyou'restillmakingthisconsciousdecisiontobringthisbirthintothisworld.Andhowlike,eventhat'sreminiscentoflike,thegenerationsofBlackwomenbeforeuswhowereliterallygivingbirthinshacklesbutfoundlike,thisbeautifulkindofspiritualityinthatexperience.Youknow?SoIlikewrotethispiece,theyalsoghostedme.Thecontinuetoghostme.

Hannah(Host): 22:33 Andyetsomanyplatformspublishedshittyhottakesfromwhitewomenabouthowshewaspresentinganunattainableidealof,ofpregnantaesthetics.Justthenumberofshittyhottakebywhitewomenthatgetpublishedisjustintolerable.[Laughs]

Taylor: 22:49 Iremember.IwasreadingthemandIwaslike,:thisgotpublishedandnotme?

Hannah(Host): 22:55 Yeah.

Taylor: 22:55 Like,"areyouserious?"ButIfeltlikea,likeanundergroundrapper,cuzIliketweakeditthissummer.IwaslikerereadingitanditwascutecuzIcouldlike,seehowmuchIhadgrown.Like,knowingthestructurewasoffandlike,theeditingwasn'tthere.Itwaslike,averyrawpieceandIfeelputitonlike,MediumandIwaslike,"pleasereadit."Like,I'mjusthappyitfinallygotoutthere.

Hannah(Host): 23:15 Yeah.So,sonowthatyouhavebeendoingthisfreelancewritingthingforacoupleofyears,doyoufeellikeyouarestartingtogetwhatfeelsforyou,likeareallyparticularvoiceorapproachtothetopicsthatyoutakeon?

Taylor: 23:30 Ithinkinthebeginning,youknow,Iwasjustsoexcitedtobepublishedthatitwaslike--

Hannah(Host): 23:36 "I'lldowhateveryoutellme."

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Taylor: 23:38 Prettymuch.LikeIwasn'tpushingbackaroundlike,myeditors.Ifliketheywerelike,"maybeyouneedtotoneitdownorsoftenitthere,"I'djustbelike,"okay."Like,"Yessir.Yesma'am."Youknow,I'mjusttryingtogetmynameoutthereandyouknow,havepeoplereadmystuff.AndnowthatI'vekindoftakenamoreownershipofmycraft,andespeciallyforlike,thosewhodidn'tgotojournalismschoolorweren'tformallytrainedthere'skindof,youknow,liketheadditionalimposturesyndrome.Soit'slike,I'minthisarenawithfolkswhohavegonetoColumbiaJournalismSchoolorwhohave,youknow,gonetoapprenticeshipprogramsatCNNortheNewYorkTimes.Soyouknowthatit'sliketheinternalizationofthatthataffectsyourwritingwhereyou'relike,"maybethiseditorknowswhat'sbestandlike,Idon't."ButasI'vegrowninmycraftand,youknow,gotanadditionallikebylinesindifferentarenas,I'mstartingto,youknow,figureoutwhoIamasawriterandwhatthatidentitymeans.Youknow?Andit'ssohardinanindustrythatlikecut-throatandeverybodyknowseachotherto,youknow,advocateforyourselfbecauselike,wehavelike,seenwhathappenswhenlikeawritermaypushtoomuchandthey'relike,completelyalienatedandcan'tfindwork.

Hannah(Host): 24:52 Yeah.Thatintensesenseoflike,againit'slikecapitalism,butlike"youarereplaceable,wedon'tneedyouspecifically.Wecouldbringoneofamillionotherpeople."Right?Likethatthatsenseofisalwaysthereandtoholdontoasenseoflike,"no,actuallyIhaveauniquevoice,andauniqueperspective,andaskillset,andsomethingtosay.AndsoIdogettopush."That'sahardplacetogetto.

Taylor: 25:17 Andyouknow,I'vebeenlikeverygraciousbecauseitseemsthatlike,Blackfreelancewritersinparticular,justkindofenmeshinthiscommunityonlinewhereit'slike,"I'mgoingtoupliftyourwork,I'mgoingtosupportyou.Likewhatdoyouneedfromme?Thisisaneditor'semail.Likethesearetheirrates,"youknow,beingverytransparentbecauseifwe'renottransparentwitheachotherthenlikeallofthesepublicationscanreallyhavepoweroveryouanddominion.

Hannah(Host): 25:44 Yeah.

Taylor: 25:44 IamalwaysopeningmyDMstootherotherfolkslike,intheindustryorcraft,youknow.Helpeachotheroutbecausewedon'tneedtobeversuseachother,youknow?AndIthinkespeciallyforme,oneofmybestfriends,Ithink,whatisherTwitter@?ShehasadifferentoneonIG,Twitter.It's,isitZoéSamudzi's(@ztsamudzi)

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Hannah(Host): 26:02 Ohyeah!

Taylor: 26:08 Oneofmylikebestfriends.Ilovehertodeath.

Hannah(Host): 26:10 Really?

Taylor: 26:11 Wehavematchingfriendshipnecklaces.I'msorry,I'mnotwearingitrightnow,Zoe.Iwasatwork.Butyouknow,IhavewritingdateswithhereverySunday.Andshelike,holdsmeaccountableandshehelpsmesharpenmycraftandmyideas.AndI'mlikesohonoredtohavecommunitylikethat.OrwhenIwasinPhilly,itwasLaraWittwhoistheeditorinchiefofWearYourVoice.Andshereallyhelpedme,youknow,likestrategize.AndthatwascompletelyoverTwitterandthekindnessofherheartandbothbeingBlackwomen.Solike,Ithinkit'salwaysimportanttohonorthoseinyourcommunitywhohavereallyhelpedyou.BecauseI'veseen,youknow,somanypeople,especiallylikeBlackgatekeepersinjournalism,likenoteven,youknow,respondtoyourDM.You'relike,"I'mupandemergingwriter.Howisyourjourney,what'sgoingon?"Andthenwhenyouexperiencethat,like,whyshouldIeventry?Youknow?

Hannah(Host): 27:06 Yeah.Itreallystruckmewhatyouweresayingearlieronabout,youknow,whenyoufirststartedtryingtodothis,likepitchingop-edsandbemorepresentonsocialmedia,thatyouweretryingtodoittotallyonyourown,withoutacommunityandthatthatwasunsustainable.Whereashavingthatcommunitythatamplifiesyourvoice,andthatliftsyouup,andthatoffersyoutips,andadvice,andguidance,turnswhatis,sortof,onyourown,atotallyunsustainableprospectintosomethingthatcanactuallykeepgoingovertime.IwouldreallylovetohearyoutalkalittlebitmoreaboutyourexperienceofTwitterinparticularbecauseI,I,IthinkthattheconversationsthatwehaveaboutTwittertendtofocusonhowit'sfullofliteralNazis,whichitis.Obviously.It'slikeareallybadplatforminalotofways,butIalsoagainhave,sortof,heardcolleagueswhoareBlackwomentalkaboutthesortofdismissalofTwitterasexclusivelytoxicreallyignoresthewaythatalotofcommunitiesuseitasa,asalifelineparticularly.Andthisis,youknow,acolleagueofminewassayingthatlikesheistheonlyBlackwomanscholarinherdepartmentandsowherewouldshehavecommunityifshedidn'thaveTwitter?Likethatideathatasasocialmediaplatform,it'sexclusivelytoxic,reallyignoresdifferentfunctionsthatithasfordifferentcommunities.Soyeah,Iam,I'mcurioustohearwhat[laughs]roleTwitterplaysforyou.

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Taylor: 28:40 Yes.Soaskhimagain.IwanttosayIloveBlackTwitter.BlackTwitteris,Idon'tevenknowhowtolike,Ithinkit'slikeanonlinefamilyreunion.It'slikethebestwaythatIcan,kindof,categorizeit.CuzIrememberwhenScandalcameout,right?EverysingleBlackpersonwasonTwitterlivetweeting.Imeanyoucouldn'tescapeit.Like,whatisitLuvi,Louvi?She,herwholeentirecareerstarted,I'msosorryformispronouncingeveryone'sname,butherwholelife,

Hannah(Host): 29:13 Imeanit'sjustTwitterhandles.Howareyousupposedtoknowhowtopronouncethem?It'sveryhard.

Taylor: 29:17 It's@something.

Hannah(Host): 29:17 Yeah.

Taylor: 29:17 LikeaNewYorkTimesbook.ButhercareerstartedfromScandalrecapsandlikefullcircle,herbookisbeingproducedbyShonda.Solikeacomplete360.

Hannah(Host): 29:29 That'sbeautiful.

Taylor: 29:31 AndIlikeIkindofspokeaboutwhenIwasastudentorganizer,likeTwitterwaslifeline.Youknow,likewhatwasthehashtag?Itwaslikestudents#Mizzou1950orlike#concernedstudent1950.Youknow,likeallofthesehashtagswe'vedone.LikethewholeentireBlackLivesMattermovementislike,abrilliantexampleofhowTwitteroperatesaslike,thislifelineformarginalizedcommunitiestogetthewordout.ImeanhowdidwefindoutaboutwhatwasreallyhappeninginFergusonandeventoday?Like,alotofthatindependentjournalismisbeingdonefromfolkswithTwitter.Youknow,likewhat'sreallyhappening.It'snotbeingfilteredthroughlike,allofthesemajornetworksandconglomeratesthathasstakeholders,thathavepoliticalagendasthatlikedonatetofolks.Like,itismeandmyphone.

Hannah(Host): 30:22 Yeah.

Taylor: 30:22 ThatisallIhave.Youknow?AndIthinkthat'slike,verybeautiful.Butthenyouknow,whatareisalsocensoringvoices.Ithinkearlyinthedayitwaslike,alittlebitoflike,Twitterreallydidn'tknowwhattheyweredoingsolike,anybodycouldtweet.Andnowbecauseithassomuchpoliticalpowerit'slike,like"hmmm,maybeIshouldsilencesexworkers,"orlike,"maybeIshouldsilencesomeofthesefolks."Like,"we'restilllike,quoteunquote'liberal'inSiliconeValley,butlike,letmetry

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tosilencethelike,mostmarginalized.SowhenIgetuptoy'all,it'sjustbecomecommonplacepractice.".

Hannah(Host): 30:56 Yep.

Taylor: 30:56 Idon'tknowifthatansweredyourquestion.

Hannah(Host): 31:00 Yeah,absolutelydid,thatitcansimultaneouslybenecessaryandathingthatwelookatinourlife,thiscouldbebetter,

Taylor: 31:09 Butthenalso,personallyI'vemovedlike,ImovedtoPhiladelphiaforgradschoolandIcamebacktothebayaftergradschool.AndyouknowlikeTwitterishowIfoundalotofmyfriends.Forinstance,Zoe.IwasabigfanofherworkandthenIwenttooneofherbookreadingsinPhillyandlike,nowIloveherlikeasister.Solike,therelike,youknow,momentslikethat,whereit'slike,wewereTwitterfriends,thenwemetinreallifeandnowwe'rereallifefriends.ButlikeI'mstillgoingtoDMyouonTwitter.

Hannah(Host): 31:41 Yeah.

Taylor: 31:41 OrlikemyfriendsinTexas,Austin.I'llsendthemmemesallthetimeandhavelike,fulllengthconversations.RightnowmynewTwitterbestfriendis@WannasWorldwhowrotethearticleaboutniggerfishing.

Hannah(Host): 31:57 Ohyeah,I'vereadthat.Wow.Yup

Taylor: 31:59 Solike,IhavebeensohonoredthatshehaslikeslidintomyDMsandlike,wehavebeen,youknow--

Hannah(Host): 32:05 Awesome.

Taylor: 32:05 --gettingbackandforthaboutourdailylives,butalsolikehowharditiswhenlikeeditorsdon'trespondbacktous.Orlike,especiallywithherniggerfishingpiece,whenwholeentireplatformstakeyouridea,createcontentoffofit,don'tgiveyoucreditandsomeone'sgettingpaidforit.She'slike,"BBCNewshastakenit.Allurehastakenit,"andnoonehascontactedher.Andlikethesadthing,whichiswhatIkindaexperiencedonmySabrinapiece,isthatsomuchcontentisstolenfromBlackwomencreatives.

Hannah(Host): 32:41 Yeah.

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Taylor: 32:41 We'renotgettinganycreditwherecreditisdue.Soit'slike,youknow,we'reusingTwittertoamplifyourplatformsandwe'regivingoutourideas,butthenthatcomesatacostbecauseanybodycanjustembedatweet,readyourthread,writeanarticleaboutit,haveapodcast,goontheair,andthenyou'resittingtherelikereadingyourworkandit'slike,whatthefuck?

Hannah(Host): 33:05 Yup.I'mtryingtoremembertheactualstorythatthiswas,buttherewas,inthepastcoupleofweeks,aBlackwomanwhowroteaTwitteressayandthenanewsoutletliterallyjustpublishedtheentireTwitteressay,tweetbytweetandwaslike,"look,wedidanarticle!"Andshewaslike,"youarenotallowedtodothat."LikeI,Iknowthattweetsarepublicandyoucanembedoneinaarticle,butlikethishasgottabeaviolationofsomesortoflike,journalisticethics,butitjustdoesn'tseemtostopanyone.Andwhatisyour,like,whatareresponsestothat?Likewhatcanyoudo?Isitjustlike,"well,peoplearegoingtostealmystuffandIjusthavetokeepcreating,"orarethere,arethererecourses?

Taylor: 33:55 Iknowformeso,beforemySabrinaop-edwaspublishedinTeenVogue,Iwasemailingwithmyeditorandshewaslike,"oh,didyouseehowyourstorygotpickedupbyNewsweek?"AndIwaslike,"no,Ihadnoidea."SoIwentandGoogledmyname,youknow,like,"TaylorCrumptonNewsweek,"andIsawthatthisfulltimewhitewomanstaffwriterbythenameofKellyWynnehadtakenallofmytweets.Shecopiedandpastedthewholeentirethread.

Hannah(Host): 34:27 Sothisisjuststandardpractice.

Taylor: 34:29 Ohyeah.Shebarelyaddedanywordsandthengavemethecommoncourtesyoflike,Ithinkthebylinewithlike,"TwitterusertalksabouttheChillingAdventuresofSabrinainrelationtoraceorgender."Soitwaslikenumberone,you'vestolenmycontent.Numbertwo,I'mnotonlyaTwitteruser,I'majournalist.Numberthree,theironythatI'mwritingabouthowthiswhitewomanusedherprivilegetoliterallyenactviolenceuponaBlackwoman,andyouweredoingthesamething.AndIrememberIwasatworkandIhadtoliketakeasweetcometoJesusmomentwithmyselfandIwaslike,"youknowwhat,I'mgoingtobenice."SoIreachedouttoher.IDM'dherandIwaslike,"Hey,IamtheTwitteruser.I'malsoafreelancejournalist.AndlikeIwantedtotalktoyou.Whydidn'tyoureachouttomebeforehand?Like,Icouldhavebeeninterviewedorlike,contributedtoyourpiece."Youknow,likeofferinganolivebranch.Like,I'mhere.I'mnotabove,I'mahumanbeing.

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Hannah(Host): 35:33 [Laughs].

Taylor: 35:33 Like,wecanhaveaconversation.AndIwasgoingtogiveherlike,acoupleofhoursbeforeItweetedaboutit.Youknow,Iwasgoingtolikecalmdown.Like,woo-sa.AndthenIsawinresponsethatallNewsweekdidwasedittheessaywithmoreotherTwitterusers'stweetstomakeitbelike,"ohTaylorCrumptonwasn'ttheonlyonewhobroughtthisup."SoinresponseIwaslike,"thisisthegamewe'regonnaplay.Thisisit.Well,I'mgoingtotweetaboutit."SoImadeawholeentireseparateTwitterthreadaboutlike,howthiswomantookadvantageofmycontentandmymaterial.Like,youstolemyintellectualproperty.Youknowhowweareasacademics.That'slikeifsomeonewentandstolemywholeentireresearchpresentationbeforemyconference,anddiditbeforeme.Youknow,it'slikeyoudidthis.AndlikeIamsoluckythatalotoflikeTwitterusersandespeciallymyeditors,like,myeditorsatTeenVogueevenlikePhillipandlike,thehigherupsweretweetingandthey'relike,"donotreadthisperson'spiece."Like,"ReadTaylor's.Wereachedouttoher,shecontributestouslikereadhervoice,don'ttakeadvantageofhercontent."Andthenlike,Blackwomenhavealwayscontinuedtoshowupformeandtheywerelike,"sis,I'msosorrythishashappenedtomesomanytimes.Thankyouforbeingvocal.Like,wesupportyou,likewehaveyourback."Myphonewaslike,dyingbecausesomanypeoplewerejustlike,"no,we'renotgonnastandforthis.We'regoingtoretweetyouroriginalthread."Andevenatthesetwoverygreat,likeBlackwomancreatives.Icallthemmylike,Twittermoms.Ilovethem.So,it'sJennaWorthamoftheNewYorkTimesandMuseumMammywhoworkedattheMet,liketheyeventweetedandtheywerelike,"she'snotaTwitteruserthough.".

Hannah(Host): 37:23 [Laughs]Nokidding.

Taylor: 37:23 Like,like"she'sajournalist.".

Hannah(Host): 37:27 Yup.

Taylor: 37:27 SothatwasthatonemomentwhereIfeltthatallofmyhardworkhadpaidoffbecauseawholeentireonlinecommunitywastryingtoholdthislike,organizationthathasexistedsince1926accountableforstealingmycontent,youknow?

Hannah(Host): 37:45 Yeah.

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Taylor: 37:45 Solike,whatI'mgonnadoisI'mgoingtoorganize.Like,I'mgoingtohavepeople,youknow,callyououtthoseinpowersoyouknow,nottodothisagain.Butthesadthingaboutjournalismisthatsomeoneprobablywill,butatleasttheyknowthatI'mnotgonnastandforit.Andyes,likeIunderstandthatinthisbackworldofeverybodywhoknowseverybody,likeImayhaveburnedabridgeorpissedsomeoneoff.Butlikeattheendoftheday,IamproudofmycharacterandmydecisiontoadvocateformyselfbecausehistoricallyBlackwomen'smaterialhasalwaysbeenstolen.

Hannah(Host): 38:20 Yeah.

Taylor: 38:20 Andtheyjusthadtolike,youknow,acceptbecauseofthesefuckedupsystem,I'mjustgoingtostaysilentandallowthismistreatmenttohappen.Andit'slike,it's2018.DonaldTrump'spresident.Ihavepinkhair.Like,thereisnothingcauseyouuseanymore.

Hannah(Host): 38:34 It'sreallylike,Ithinkwe'veprovenprettyclearlythatbeingpleasantandnicegotnobodyanywhere.Sofuckthat.

Taylor: 38:43 Prettymuch.

Hannah(Host): 38:43 Yeah.Yeah.I'm,I'm,soI'mupinVancouverandwe'vebeengoingthrough,inthepastcoupleofyears,thissortoflike,MeTooCanadaversionascenteredaroundanumberofmajorliteraryfiguresinCanada.Andithasn'tmadeitintotheU.S.becauseCanadiannewsnevermakesitintotheU.S.Butathingthatreallycharacterizedthisentiremomentwasthedegreetowhichasmallnumberofpowerfulpeoplewithunlimitedaccesstomainstreamplatformsgottodominatethenarrative,dominatetheconversation,caneffortlesslygetanop-edinthemajornationalnewspaper,caneffortlesslygetlike,PENCanadatocomeoutontheirside.Andthepeoplewhoarefightingfor,youknow,the,Idon'tknow[laughs]justlikefortheworldtobelesshorrifying.Whichisagain,asalwayspredominantlywomenofcolor,alotofIndigenouswomeninCanada,alotofqueerandtransIndigenousfolks,primarilyhaveaccesstosocialmediabecausethat'stheplatformthatyouhaveaccesstowhenyouareahistoricallyandonanongoingbasis,deniedpoweranddeniedvoice,andsoareorganizingonsocialmediaandexpressingthemselvesonsocialmedia.Andthedegreetowhichthosewhowanttoshutdowntheconversationhavebeenrelyingonthelanguageof"Twittermobbing."It'slikeIhearthisallthetime,theselikeessayscomingoutwrittenbywhitemenpretendingthatthey'reworriedsayingthatyouknow,"somebodysayssomethingwrongonTwitterandtheyget

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mobbedandit'sthedeathoffreespeech."Andthatdesiretosay"noseriousthinkinghappensonsocialmedia"islikesuchatransparentefforttodeal,legitimizeaplatformwherepeopleareactuallyfindingavoicewhohavebeenagain,historicallyanddeliberatelydeniedaccesstootherkindsofplatforms.It'slike,itseemssofuckingobviousandyetthatrhetoricstillseemstowork.

Taylor: 40:52 It'sso[disapprovingmmms].IgottofigureoutapolitewaytosaythiscauseI'masouthernwoman.Butit'slike,Ialwaysjokethatcishetwhitemenaretrulyfromthedevil.

Hannah(Host): 41:03 [Laughs]Sorry.

Taylor: 41:04 Andyouknow,rightnowtheuniversehasnotprovedmewrong.

Hannah(Host): 41:08 No.

Taylor: 41:08 Souniverse,ifyouwanttodoyourthing,youcan,butrightnowmybrujasandIareprettysinsolid.Whenit'slikethemomentthatamarginalizedpersonaccesstoaplatforminwhichtheycanbetheirauthenticself,inwhichtheycanspeaktheirtruthandtheirlivedexperiences,thatisgoingtocallouthowproblematicyourlike,existenceinbeingandhowyou'vedonetoyourcommunity,it'slike,"ohmygod!Thedeclarationofindependenceisonfire."Like,thefoundingfathersarerollingintheirgraves.Andit'slikehowhaveyoureadPhillisWheatley?Becauselikeshewasnotthebiggestfanofthe,likethefoundingfathersatall.Likemarginalizedpeoplehasalwaysfoundlikeawaytotalkabouttheirlivedexperienceinthemediainwhichsomewayhaslike,pissedy'alloffbecauseit'slike,"Oh,ifIspeakaboutmylivedexperiences,I'msomehowgoingtogetawhitemanoutofpower."You'renotgoingtogetoutofpower,sojustfuckupandletmespeakaboutmylivedexperience.Youmaylearnafingerto,andifyoudo,besuretoVenmoorCashapp,becauseyoureplaceallthesepoliciesandlawthatmakemelikemakenexttocrapandIhavetwoadvanceddegrees.Solike,paymeformycoin.Ialwaystellcreativesontheinternet,putyourVenmooutthere,putyourPayPal,putyourCashapp,becausepeopleareingestingjustseeingyourcontentandaresomehow,youknow,beingabletolike,internalizeitandreflectontheirproblematicstuff.YoushouldbewealthyasfreakingTrump.

Hannah(Host): 42:36 Yeah.Like"paywomen"isisthemoralofthestorylikeandthat,ohfuck,whatwasthis?Maybeacoupleofyearsagosomebodycreatedlikea,aninvoicingthatyoucouldsendto

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peoplewhentheyaskedyouforemotionallabor.Youjustbelike,"ohhere'smyrate.It's$50anhour."Youarecompletelyright.Thattheflipsidetothis,toaccesstothisplatformisthatit'safreeandopenplatformthathasnocompensationattachedtoit.Soit'slikegreat,hereisaplacetogetyourvoiceoutandalsohereasaplacewheretonsofpeoplecanbenefitfromthehighlyskilledemotionalandintellectuallaborthatyou'redoingandgiveyounothinginreturnforit.Andthatislikeontheonehandit'slike,"great,amplificationofvoices,"andontheotherhandit'slike,"great,ongoingexploitationofracializedlabor.

Taylor: 43:31 Prettymuch.Andtheironicfactislike,asIwasabouttodomythread,Iwastalkingtolike,myfriend.IwastalkingtoZoeaboutit[inaudible]andshewaslike,"youknow,ifyoudothisthread,someoneisgonnaliftit."Like"justbeingtransparent."Youknow,Iwaslike,[unsurenoise].IwasthinkingIdon'thavethatmuchTwitterclout.Like,Ionlygotmaybelike2000peopleorwhatever.Actuallyno,atthattimeIhadlike1600.Iwaslike,"Idon'thavelikeaverybigplatform;nothing'sgoingtohappen."Andthenwhenitgotstolenshewaslike,"I'msorrybutIalsotoldyou."Soit'slikethethingwhereIwaslike,acontentorcreatives,orlikeeven,youknow,asaprofessor,myprofessorshaveTwitterandlike,gooutandtweetaboutlike,theirresearchandwhattheydobecauselikeattheendoftheday,youdon'twanttohavelike,theseelitismandlike,theseclosedbarriersandhidbehindpaywalls,right?

Hannah(Host): 44:26 Mmhmm.

Taylor: 44:26 It'slikeshitlikethishappenswherelike,somethingthatyouputyourtime,andenergy,andyouremotionintoisjuststolen.Soit'sjusttheinternet.

Hannah(Host): 44:38 [Laughs]Yeah,it'sjusttheinternet.Oh,sogoodandsobad

Taylor: 44:42 Atthesametime.

Hannah(Host): 44:44 Atthesametime.Yeah.Andmaybelike,I'malwayssohesitanttoascribeto,tonarrativesofimprovementovertime.Soit'slike,Idon'tknow,everything'sgettingworseandgettingbettersomehowsimultaneously.Notstayingthesameever,butsomehowgettingworseandbetteratthesametime.AndIfeelthatwayabouttheinternetalotofthetimetoo.It'slike,great!It'sbetterthaneverandalsotheworstit'severbeen.Blessit.

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Taylor: 45:11 I'mlike,"wow,Icangetessentialoils,butalsolike,whatistheenvironmentalcostsifIwantthesetwodayshipping?"Youknow,likedoIneedtogotothestore?Butthenalsolike,asamarginalizedfolk,likeifIgointothestoreamIgoingtobelike,lookedatorchastised,oraretheygoingtocallthecopsonmebecauseI'mlike,theonlyBlackwomanatthisessentialoilaromatherapystore?Soit'slike,youknow,it'sthatblessingandthatcurse.

Hannah(Host): 45:37 Yep.

Taylor: 45:37 Ikindofthinkabout,Isawthistweetanditwaslike,"IthinktheonlypeopleinNewYorkthatarehappythatthetaxicabsaredyingareBlackpeople."Andsomeonequotetweeteditanditwaslike,"stairandrideshares"Soit'slike,dang!

Hannah(Host): 45:50 Yep.

Taylor: 45:50 Like,technologyisimprovingthesethingswhereIcanhaveaccesstothingswerelike,Ididn'twanttogotobeforeforfearjudgment,butlikewhat'stheprice?

Hannah(Host): 45:58 [Laughs]It'sjustremindedmeofa,IwasataneventatthepubliclibraryrecentlythatwasasortofstagedteachinbyanumberoftransandqueerwritersinVancouvertalkingbacktothelibraryaboutthefactthatthelibraryhasplatformedareallywellknownTERFinVancouver.Anditwaslike,thisteachinwiththe,theadministrationofthelibrarytobelike,"here'swhywhatyou'redoingisreallyfuckedup."AndIwaschattingwithoneofthespeakersonmywayoutandIwaslike,listen,"worsecomestoworst,wejustburnthebuildingdown."Andtheywerelike,"hmm,butwhataboutthecarbonfootprint?"AndIwaslike,"Goddamnit,youcan'twin.Can'tevenburnthingsdown."

Taylor: 46:38 Younevercan.It'slike,let'sburntheflag.AndIwaslike,"doestheearthneedtotakeanotherL?".

Hannah(Host): 46:43 Nope.

Taylor: 46:43 LikeIfeelthatwayaboutfireworks.Ilovefireworkswith,I'malsolike,"yeah,dowereallyhavetodothis?"Liketheyhavetokeepongettinghurtbecauseweallknowtheearthisawoman.[Music:"LearnedFromTexas"byBigK.R.I.T.]

Hannah(Host): 47:10 Ifyou'dliketolearnmoreaboutTaylor,youcanreadherworkattaylorcompton.contently.comorfollowheronTwitter

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@TaylorCrumpton.That'sTAYLORCRUMPTON.YoucanfindshownotesandalltheepisodesofSecretFeministAgendaonsecretfeministagenda.comandthisisoneofthoseepisodesthathasalotoflinks.Sogoandcheckthoseout.YoucanfollowmeonTwitter@hkpmcgregorandyoucantweetaboutthepodcastusingthehashtag#secretfeministagenda.Anddon'tforgettorateandreviewthepodcast.TherearedelightfullytwomorenewreviewsonApplePodcaststhisweek.SoshoutouttoTammyaresixtotwoandBethtabfortheirlovelyfivestarreviews.Thepodcast'sthemesongis"MeshShirt"byMomJeansofftheiralbumChubRub.Youcandownloadtheentirealbumonfreemusicarchive.orgorfollowthemonFacebook.Taylor'sthemesongwas"LearnedFromTexas"byBigK.R.I.T.SecretFeministAgendaisrecordedonthetraditionalanduncededterritoryoftheMusqueam,Squamish,andTsleil-WaututhfirstnationswhereI'mgratefultoliveandwork.ThishasbeenSecretFeministAgenda.Passiton.[Music:“MeshShirt”byMomJeans]