Post on 22-Aug-2020
For information on terms of use of this interview, please see the SPOHP Creative Commons license at http://ufdc.ufl.edu/AfricanAmericanOralHistory.
Joel Buchanan Archive of African American History: http://ufdc.ufl.edu/ohfb
AAHP 359 Gainesville Town Hall Black History African American History Project (AAHP)
Nkwanda Jah, Stacy Jones, Sherry DuPree, Joyce West, Delores Rentz, Patricia Hilliard-Nunn, Deidre Houchen, Kali Blount, Dan Harmeling, Cassandra Morrison on
October 26, 2014 2 hours, 19 minutes | 63 pages
Abstract: Nkwanda Jah introduced the Town Hall organized by the Black History Task Force and panelists. The Alachua County Library District offered books for check out and other books were available for sale. The panelists were educators, parents, and business owners who discussed the history of African American Studies broadly and specifically in Alachua County. Deidre Houchen shared the story of the creation of Lincoln High School before and during Jim Crow. Patricia Hilliard-Nunn explained that free Africans like Juan Garrido were explorers of the New World and the influence of Africans on mathematics.
The audience asked several questions on teaching methodologies, the verification of sources, cultural competency, and how to challenge state and federal leaders. Dr.
Gwendolyn Zohorah Simmons was the Alachua County representative to Florida’s Black History Task Force and invited the audience to other relevant events.
Keywords: Black History; Alachua County School Board; Education; Florida Statute of Law 1003.42; Social Studies; Black Churches; Rosewood; Dan Harmeling; Lincoln High
School; Department of Education; Carter G. Woodson; Black Art Movement; Gary Moore.
Samuel Proctor Oral History Program College of Liberal Arts and Sciences Program Director: Dr. Paul Ortiz
241 Pugh Hall PO Box 115215 Gainesville, FL 32611 (352) 392-7168https://oral.history.ufl.edu
AAHP 359 Presenters: Nkwanda Jah, Stacy Jones, Sherry DuPree, Joyce West, Delores Rentz, Patricia Hilliard-Nunn, Deidre Houchen, Kali Blount, Dan Harmeling, Cassandra Morrison Event: Gainesville Black History Task Force Town Hall Meeting Date: October 26, 2014 NJ: Good afternoon. [Greets audience in different languages] I’m Nkwanda Jah. I just
made an attempt to greet you in Swahili with “Djambo”; “Daante” is Japanese;
“Bonjour”—some of y’all got that [inaudible 0:46]. It’s French. “Nihao”; Chinese.
“Konichiwa”; Japanese. “Sabe?”; Latino. It’s one of the reasons why we’re here
today. Good afternoon my name is Nkwanda Jah, and I want to welcome each of
you on behalf of the members of the Black History Task Force to our town hall
meeting to discuss infusing Black history into our schools’ curriculum. Many of us
believe that you cannot teach any of the basic subjects—science, math, writing—
without teaching the great contributions of Blacks. Math and science are what
Blacks used to build pyramids. Algebra, being used by Blacks thousands of years
before Whites. Chemistry, architecture, astronomy, religions, art, and the list
goes on and on—and that does not at all even include the most recent scientists,
like George Washington Carver and his creations, whether we’re talking about
the soy bean he used to create fuel for Mr. Ford’s car, or the peanut that
revolutionized the time. Or Charles Drew, who we should not even be able to
look at a Bloodmobile and not think of him. We have panelists who will share with
you their experiences and attempts to infuse Black history, and then we will hear
from you. We want to know exactly what the barriers are to this infusion, and we
hope we can break down those barriers. We need to move forward, including not
just White history and Black history, but all of our histories, whether it’s
European, African and Black, Native American, Latino, Asian, women, or gays.
AAHP 359; Gainesville Black History Task Force Town Hall; Page 2
Again, welcome each of you, and a sincere thank you for joining us on such a
beautiful Sunday afternoon. This task force looks forward to working with each
and every one of you after the town hall meeting. And I just want to point out to
you that Cultural Arts Coalition has some books in the back that we’re selling for
a dollar each, that we will use contributions for the coalition. Again, thank you
very much for being here. [Applause]
SJ: Good afternoon, everybody. My name is Stacy Jones, I’m a member of the Black
History Task Force and I’ve got to say that it’s been my pleasure to work with this
amazing group of people as we try to figure out ways to appropriately infuse
Black history into the Alachua County school curriculum, from kindergarten all the
way through twelfth grade. Fantastic group of people to work with. I look forward
to seeing some of you all join us after this town hall meeting. I want to introduce
one new member in particular to you today: Ms. Sherry DuPree is a longtime
resident of Gainesville. She was born and grew up in Raleigh, North Carolina,
and attended North Carolina Central in Durham and then the University of
Michigan in Ann Arbor. She has been a librarian at both the University of Florida
and Santa Fe for many, many years. This is a woman who has dedicated much
of her time, much of her life, much of her career and her spare time, to the study
and the teaching, and the documenting and archiving of African and African
American history. She currently serves as the Executive Director of the UNESCO
Transatlantic Slave Trade group. She is married, she has three sons, and it’s my
pleasure to introduce to you Ms. Sherry Dupree. [Applause]
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D: Thank you so very, very much for this beautiful introduction. It’s time for me to go
now, since you said all that! We would welcome each and every one of you here
this afternoon. We are here for a wonderful occasion. We’re here to talk about
some of the needs of our community, which is most important. Education is the
key, not only for our children, but for the growth of our communities. Education
determines where we go, what we do, and how well we do it. It determines our
businesses and how well they function, as well. So we’re here today to care for
them and to move forward. Library resources, Ms. Joyce West, would you please
come forward? Ms. Joyce West? All right. [Inaudible 6:41]
W: Good afternoon. Welcome to the Alachua County Library District. On behalf of
our [inaudible 06:57] staff we want to thank you for thinking of us when looking
for a place to host this wonderful meeting. With the assistance of the task force,
we have put together a small sample of African American history book lists, and
some of the books are available in the back of the room, on the cart, for check
out. But it’s also a list there as well; if the item’s not there, you can put the item
on hold and we’ll notify you when it comes in. There’s also one item on there
that’s available, and it’s a downloadable e-book, and if you have tablets,
computers, audio devices and things like that, you can stop at the table and see
me, or you can stop at our table and see one of our staff members, and we’ll be
at your assistance [inaudible 07:43] for twenty-one days. I’ve also been asked to
tell you some small housekeeping notes: the bathroom is straight out of the
door—because that’s always important. And right across the hall, there’s a water
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fountain there as well. So again, welcome, thank you for coming out, and I hope
you enjoy your morning. [Applause].
D: It’s always so [inaudible 08:08] always enjoy coming here. You’re so open to
everybody. So we want you to relax and enjoy what we have prepared. The
panel of members, we’re going to ask each of them to take a couple of minutes
to tell you about themselves so that they can move forward. [Inaudible 8:29].
H: Good afternoon. I’m Masoma Kali, most of you are familiar with just saying “Kali.”
I’ve been in Gainesville since [19]87; I am a nurse, part-time at Shands; I’m a
graduate of single parenting, and the proud grandparent of a bike shop. I’ve been
involved with a lot of community issues, starting in 19[89] with the charter review
of lots of boards and committees, but this is the most important.
D: All right. Thank you. And next we have, Delores Rentz. Please come forward.
R: Good afternoon. My name is Delores Rentz. I am a retired educator. I’ve taught
high school at Buchholz High School for many years, primarily in Social Studies.
D: Thank you. So many people in Gainesville know her and her husband and family.
Dan you’re right here. [Inaudible 9:44].
DHa: My name is Dan Harmeling. I’m a retired teacher at county public schools for I
guess I could say, many, many years, starting in 1967, in Washington D.C., and
currently, I’m retired. I’ve been at Santa Fe college as a math instructor for the
last ten years. [Inaudible 10:07]
D: Thank you so much, Dan. I’ve known you for a long time. I’m real excited for this.
You going to come up Deidre? All right.
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DHo: Good afternoon, everyone. I’m Deidre Houchen. I am a parent, long-time resident
of Gainesville. I moved here in third grade and went to the Idylwild, and Fort
Clarke, and Buchholz, and was a student under Mrs. Rentz. I am a teacher, a
former teacher and a student now at the University of Florida, getting my PhD in
curriculum teaching and teacher education.
D: Thank you, Deidre. Cassandra, would you please come forward? Thank you.
M: Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Cassandra Morrison. I’m a parent from
Porters, and I’m also a business owner. I see what the students are coming
against, and also what’s going on in the classroom. So, my contribution is to
make sure that my children do well in the classroom.
D: Thank you. Patricia?
H-N: Thank you. I am Patricia Hilliard-Nunn. I’m glad to be here. My a lecturer in
African American studies at the University of Florida. I’ve have two daughters go
through the system here in Alachua County, and I’ve worked with a lot of
teachers and principals during that time. The last just graduated in June, and so I
decided to work with children. I believe that we should teach everyone’s history,
that all [inaudible 11:58] especially infuses historic African American studies.
D: Okay. All right, now you have met our panel, and we will be doing questions and
answers in just a few minutes, but I want to read the Florida Statute of Law. The
Florida Statute 1003.42 is entitled “Required Instruction,” and it was passed in
1994. The intent of the statute is to mandate basic curriculum requirements such
as the infusion of African American history and culture in and for the schools. But
in the twenty years since it was approved, it has only been implemented in a few
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counties. We have sixty-seven counties in the state of Florida and we average
around ten that have been approved. So I want you to keep that in mind as we
go through this afternoon, making sure not only that we cover African American
history, but we have to include Hispanics, the Asians, and so many other cultures
that are now in the Gainesville area and in the state of Florida. We want to make
sure that we infuse—the key word is infuse—history that reflects all of the
cultures; not just one or two, but all, in different ways, to make sure our kids are
comfortable in their classrooms. All right, the next thing that we have will be
questions and answers from the community and the panel. So we’ll start with
Kali?
B: I hope to be brief, because I want to talk about past and we’re not going to linger
there. But we just need to know how some things that had gone on before. And I
also want to mention, one other person who is not on the panel today but would
have been if she had not had plans that didn’t happen that she would have been
out of town. And she sitting at the very back, Professor Gwendolyn Zohorah
Simmons. [Applause] She was very, very important in getting this whole thing to
rise. And she is a member of the statewide task force for African American
history education. The State Department of Education, and the Commissioner of
Education, support a task force at the state level with scholars from all over the
state, and she is our local member of that. That group has been looking—for over
a decade—has been looking at the implementation of the statute. Unfortunately,
they have no power. So they’ve amassed fantastic materials, great curriculum
materials, but they cannot make them get inserted into the curriculum. So I came
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to this notion in 1990 after coming to Gainesville. The [19]89-[19]90 school year, I
was with a group called the African Studies Association of Alachua County. We
present a petition with over seven hundred signatures to the school board asking
for the implementing of Black history. In response to that petition, the school
board set up a multicultural curriculum task force and gave twenty-five thousand
dollars, and set [inaudible 15:36] who was then ESE, over that committee.
Bottom line, that committee finished spending its twenty-five thousand dollars. It
had affected exactly four classrooms for exactly one school year, and nothing
ever since. But I continue, with the help of other people, to meet with school
board about doing Black history, including a fifteen-year period attending every
single meeting, to the point that they got really sick of it, but they had to keep
hearing it. So come up four years and the Florida Congress of Black State
Legislators began writing this law. And to get broad support for it, they started
preparing—and there are copies of the law available, I think they’re being handed
out now—Paragraph H includes the things you see on the wall, moving around
the room. These are pieces of that law, of Paragraph H, about African and
African American history. If you look at just the first piece, it says, “History of
African Peoples before the political conflicts that lead to the development of
slavery.” Well, that means going back to the beginning of recorded history. And
human history starts in Africa. In fact, I heard on NPR this morning, an
archaeologist talking about human origins in Central East Africa. That brought all
the arguments on the table years ago, that’s commonly accepted by scientists.
Based on archaeological evidence, based on ancient written records, and based
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on biological evidence. I don’t have time to go into that right now, but I hope
some of you will be curious enough to come and find out more about that
biological evidence. So we continued meeting with the school board; they did put
it on the agenda one time! Now it happened to be on an agenda where we were
also discussing zoning and busing, and there’s two parts to that agenda: the
action agenda and the discussion agenda. So we got on the discussion agenda,
and the meeting was hot with controversy. And the item came up about one in
the morning, after the forty or so supporters who came for that item had mostly
left. So that’s bringing the attention to it so far. Now, most of the people at that
rally at [inaudible 18:04] school board believe that something is being done.
Materials are there, some people do a little, but I can speak for myself and others
who’ve been in the community doing history constantly: our kids don’t know it.
And that’s the bottom line. I don’t care what the inputs are. If the kids come out
without it, the job’s not getting done. So, that’s what we need to achieve. And I
want to put it to you that there’s been one group of people brought to this
country, forcefully separated from they story-of-self. That is the same as
deliberately infecting someone with amnesia. If you could give someone a
disease on purpose, imagine you could impose a mental illness on purpose. So,
the group of captives brought into this country were separated from anyone
speaking their language, forced to give up their names, religions, foods, clothing,
music, everything, and to not transmit their story and their history. History is the
id and ego of the community. So that has been an intellectual aggression done
against people of African descent, and that damage is still with us and needs to
AAHP 359; Gainesville Black History Task Force Town Hall; Page 9
be undone. And when our kids know that story, I won’t have to walk down the
street and see pants hanging off, because they’re going to know who they are.
Thank you. [Applause]
D: Following Kali is Delores Rentz. And I think you have the rule in front you so you
can look over it. I think copies have been passed out. Thank you
R: Good afternoon, again. My degree from college is in social studies education.
And I may be dating myself, but at the time that I went to college, I did not
receive a history degree, or geography degree, or psychology degree. I received
a degree in Social Studies Education. And what that meant was that when you
receive a job, you went into the school system, and you taught whatever social
studies course was available for teaching. And so think about the number of
courses in a social studies curriculum, from American Government, to American
History, to Psychology, Sociology, Economics; all of those things you were
expected to be able to teach. And so the question then becomes, how well
prepared are you to teach any subject matter, having graduated with a degree in
that way? Nevertheless, I came to Alachua County in the 1970s. I later received
a job at Buchholz High School, and I taught at Buchholz High School for over
thirty years in the social studies department. I taught American Government and
American History, and think about the curriculum for both those courses at the
time, both of which were very much void of anything African or African American.
I, however, had the privilege to teach an African American history course during
the 1990s at Buchholz High School on the Westside of Gainesville. And so, in
your minds many of you are saying, “Well, gee, how did that happen?” I’m glad
AAHP 359; Gainesville Black History Task Force Town Hall; Page 10
you asked that question. [Laughter] It happened because in reading information
from the study, I discovered that there was a description in the course directory
from the state of Florida for an African American history course. I had never
heard that before. I didn’t know there were many other people who were aware
that that existed. And so, I went to the Assistant Principal for curriculum at
Buchholz High School, and I said to her, “I would like to teach an African
American history course.” And she said to me, “If there is a description for the
course in the state directory, that means that you may then teach the course.”
She said the only thing that you have to do is to write a description for that
course for the Alachua County Course Directory, which I then proceeded to do,
and then in the spring of that year, students were asked to enroll in an elective
course in African American history. And it happened just that simply;
unbelievable. And so, you would think we were on the road to great success. We
did have some success. As students signed up for the course—and they did so
with their counselors, it was an elective course. So, students could sign up if they
chose to do so. It was a one-semester course and in most cases when it was
taught, it was taught one semester or the other. Rarely were there occasions
when there were two courses, one first semester and one second semester,
simply based on the enrollment. Now we could have another whole debate about
why the numbers for students signing up for that course were so small, and that
debate would have to involve a number of things. One of which would be, many
children did not feel comfortable signing up for an African American course.
Many African children did not feel comfortable, and many Caucasian children did
AAHP 359; Gainesville Black History Task Force Town Hall; Page 11
not feel comfortable. Many times, counselors have a great deal of influence on
who signed up for which courses. And then thirdly, oftentimes parents were not in
the game. So they did not know the courses being offered. They let their children
chose their own courses, and so they were not encouraging children to sign up
for that course. But the course went on for several years. Those students who
participated in it were primarily African American. They were all academic levels,
from students who were in honors courses to children who were in special
education. And the majority of them were successful in the class. So we were
very much a heterogeneous group, and of course it was taught to the level of all
of those children, with a curriculum which was unique and very unknown to most
of them. So the question then becomes—we often hear teachers say today, “I
don’t feel qualified to teach African American history.” And my response to that is
that in most cases, teachers are not qualified to teach the subject matter that
they’re teaching. You learn that subject matter when you teach it. As a matter of
fact, the best way to learn any subject matter is to teach it to someone else. And
so, we must leave that challenge on the table. Now, those who are at the district
level, and those responsible for teaching teachers, don’t shout too much,
because we’re not saying you have no responsibility. You do have a
responsibility to prepare teachers, and to provide for teachers what they need to
teach those things that they are to teach. However, teachers also must assume
of that responsibility. Now as I said, the course existed for a number of years at
Buchholz. Materials and curriculum materials were primarily any of those things
that I could find to use in the classroom. There were a number of textbooks that I
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was able to find, which were written for high school students, believe it or not.
And then of course, there were the materials that I read that I used to prepare
myself to teach the course. There were films that were used as well, and many,
many kinds of activities. And so the program, I feel, was a success. The course
disappeared when the emphasis changed to, “every child needs to have a certain
number of math courses and English courses, and we have to make sure that
they pass the FCAT.” And as I’ve said before, many of the students in the course
were students who had challenges academically. And so, instead of allowing
them to register for African American history, they were told, “You must have
FCAT math, FCAT English, in addition to your regular math and English classes.”
And so, the population for the course disappeared, and as a result, then, it was
said that there were not enough students, and therefore the course could not be
taught. And as I close, the last thing that I would like to address is this question of
should we have a separate course in African American history, or should we
infuse African American history into all parts of the curriculum. Again, don’t shout,
I’m not going to take either side. I’m simply going to say that we must do both.
Think about it: African American history and African history are history. And so, it
should be a part of the curriculum. How can you teach history but not teach
African history and African American history? How can you teach the history of
this country and not include African Americans? Therefore, it must be infused in
all parts of the curriculum. If you’re teaching about scientific developments and
those things which have brought us to where we are, how can you teach it
without teaching those who invented those things? And African Americans
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invented many of them. So if we are teaching history, it will automatically be
infused into the curriculum. But I will say also, that school districts must offer
courses in African American history, just as they offer courses of interest in
many, many other things. Everybody does not want to take a course in French,
but we offer French. Everyone does not want to take a course in wrestling, but
we offer wrestling. And so, I say the same is true of African American history.
There are those who will want to get more information and have a greater study
in African American history, and so they should then be allowed to choose a
course during which they would do that in addition to the things that they will get
in the general curriculum. Thank you. [Applause]
D: Our next speaker? Dan? [Laughter] Okay, okay.
DHa: First off all, I want to start off by saying that I had in mind a panelist to take my
place, and I’ll tell you why. I found out a little over a year ago that churches in this
area—I’m talking about African American churches—are teaching Black history.
They’re having programs. And I was invited to participate in a church on
Northeast 23rd Avenue. called Landmark Holy Temple of God. Black history
program. It was exciting. People were dressed in African costumes, and there
was another minister there. And this is the person I thought would be excellent to
take my place. His name is Pastor Willie Ross, and for those of you who want to
follow up, he told me yesterday he would not be able to be here. His church is
involved in many activities today. But when I went the next day—because he
invited me to participate in the Black history program—he had organized the
entire congregation to depict all the events of the African experience, and the
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Civil Rights Movement, and so on. And the singing. And the sit-ins. And the
common hardships and successes that people had. And when I talked to him
about, could he be on the panel, he said, “You know, I’m so busy. But let people
know what we did. Let people know that I’m available.” He lives in this area. His
church is in East Palatka. He’d be happy to be a part of it. It’s something that you
really have to believe in to put in the energy to get this done. So I—first of all, I
want to start off and say, Black history, African American history, is being taught,
and many of the churches are doing the job because they are seeing that the
public school system is not. This is knowledge they need, and as I always point
out, the White students need it as much as the Black students. They need this
because it’s the real truth of our history. What I want to do now is do a kind of
show-and-tell. Here’s a magazine put out by the Southern Poverty Law Center.
When I was in Levy County—which is where my teaching experience was—I
learned from an article I read in the Gainesville Sun about David Colburn, the
history professor. And he was researching Rosewood. Well, here in Levy
County—I’m teaching at the time in Bronson, the closest community—it’s
halfway, Rosewood’s halfway between Cedar Key and Bronson—is Bronson. So
it’s definitely their history. Well, I will organize—I’m leading my social studies
class—and this is what later on appeared as an article in this Teaching Tolerance
magazine put out by the Southern Poverty Law Center: “Dan Harmeling, a Levy
County teacher, went against the grain.” You’ve got to get at your high history
that’s hard to deal with. “He developed a Rosewood course for his sixth grade
Florida History and eighth grade American History class. He collected historical
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descriptions of the event, as well as present-day accounts, allowing his students
to examine the tragedy from a number of angles. In Harmeling’s view, Rosewood
shows that equal rights and equal justice were missing from our democracy in
the 1920s.” Our students need to know that. “Although he encountered
objections from some parents who felt that some history is best forgotten, he
notes that the 1964 [1994?]”—as Kali has said, that decision of the Florida
legislature, this is another aspect of that legislation—“to pay reparations to the
Rosewood survivors has brought the subject into the open. ‘Every community”—
I’m quoted in the paper as saying, “’needs to know its own past.’” Something else
I did—and this is because it’s kind of a show-and-tell—I’m a participant in active
Civil Rights activities, and it would’ve been 1990 that the KKK was going to be in
Palatka. [Inaudible 34:33]. So we organized a group of us to go there. And they
recorded, the Florida Times Union was there. And so this is on the teacher, Dan
Harmeling, of Levy County said, “He plans to use the experience as the basis for
a lecture in democracy which goes back to classes in Bronson High School.
Harmeling and a handful of others marched in front of the barricaded courthouse
parking lot.” We actually surrounded the Klan, they were very isolated. [Laughter]
And we were chanting, “Hey hey hey! Ho ho ho! The Ku Klux Klan must go!” And
we were [inaudible 35:12] that small group. “This is a real exercise in democracy,
Harmeling said.” We need to stand up for democracy. Especially at this time in
world history. “Harmeling called the Klan group ‘a hate group that promotes
White supremacy and oppression.’” Well, this is what the reporter had to note in
his article. It said, “One of the Klan pamphleters shouted at Harmeling, ‘Hey Jew-
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boy! You’re the problem!’” [groans in audience] Well, whether I’m Jewish or not
had nothing to do with it, but they put me [inaudible 35:51]. Something else I did
at Bronson High School: we had a wonderful article written by columnist Bill
Maxwell. So we were familiar with his work, at the time, as being represented at
the St. Pete Times, now Tampa Times. It was twenty-four years ago that ten high
school students in rural Bronson, Florida—that’s a high school where he taught—
wrote their reactions to his column in the Gainesville Sun newspaper. He wrote a
small column for racial harmony. I’m not going to get into the contents, but I
printed inside, and I still have copies of course of what the students
handwritten—handwritten accounts of how they felt about this. And I printed
inside here, and I have copies if you’re interested, I’ll have them for you after the
program. The last thing I want to tell you about this, when we had our
organization at the University of Florida called Student Coalition Against
Apartheid Racism, and I was still teaching in Bronson. The passbooks that the
population in South Africa, that the people of South Africa had to carry because
the Whites were suppressing them, was something that I showed students.
“Really, we have to carry passports?” And so, what I did was, I printed out the
copied passbook, and then I [inaudible 37:21]. So we folded it up, and made a
little book out of it. And inside, of course, the person had to put their family name
and so on. And then inside, of course, we added some things: it says, “Human
rights in South Africa is [inaudible 37:37] because your skin is black. You don’t
have the right to choose where you work,” and so on and so on. And I found
among my students, the best way to engage them in a sense that history as a
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part of their life, is to engage them in things that they can actually handle
themselves. It’s not just enough to show a film or a filmstrip, or to read a book,
but actually engage them as part of this democracy we have, where we’re all
realizing that the demographics of our great country—I hope it’s going to be a
great country—but it’s going to be better to increase our diversity, and realize as
years go by, the White population will be like every other population: a minority
population. There won’t be more than 51% of the whites here anymore. And I just
want to finish by saying, I’ve got a bunch of cassettes and DVDs, things that
show how we participated in this struggle to learn history that we’ve so often
forgotten. And, again, I’ll just share this with you if you’re interested after the
program. Thank you very much.
[Applause]
D: Thank you very much, Dan. And I think that having the passbook is just
wonderful. The students really get a feeling for what’s going on. And one other
thing I wanted to drive home: in 1994, when the law passed, it passed because
of the Rosewood claims hearing. People don’t know that. But it had never been
accepted until that time. That Claims Bill not only made sure that African
American history was taught, but the second thing, it made sure that there was a
Rosewood Scholarship. And we have to stress that. Every year, those
scholarships are being endowed, and they’re state-funded. And we need to have
our people apply for those scholarships. Just go to the Department of Education,
and then click on the area for scholarships, and work your way through, and
when you get down there, you’ll see Rosewood, you’ll see Marion County,
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Florida, several African American-related scholarships. Of course, the
scholarship is four thousand dollars, one time. You have to be a student in
college, with at least one semester of grades, just one semester. It doesn’t have
to be a four-year college, it can be a two-year college, it could be a cosmetology
program, could be a truck driving school. The point of it is, the funding is
available. And we have to beg every year to find people to apply online. So to
me, this is very important, because this is educational, and it’s to carry us
forward. And the other thing I need to say: between the speakers, I want you to
take notes! You have—I see some people taking notes. You may want to write
down points or other personal stories that you want to come back and speak to
the group about. So this is most important that we remember some of the things
that they are saying, and begin to put them into play. Ms. Deidre, are you ready?
DHo: I, why not? How you doing? Are you tired? Are you still—are you guys still
listening?
[Murmurs of affirmation from audience]
DHo: Fantastic. So I want to share with you one story in American history, but
specifically African American history, that I think is really relevant to our
discussion about education in public schools. Hopefully, some of you in the
audience here, this is your story that I’m honored to share. And it’s the story of
Lincoln High School. So, in 1983—excuse me! In 1893, Professor A. Quinn
Jones was born in Spring Hill, Quincy, Florida. He went to his first schools at the
private homes of two African American women, and continued his education up
until the eighth grade at public school number one in Tallahassee, Florida. Most
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African American schools in the early 1900s ended at the eighth grade, if there
was an African American segregated school in the community at all. But, Mr.
Jones continued his education at the State Normal College. Does anyone know
the name of that college? [Laughter] No? Other than my son, anybody else?
Florida A&M! Mr. Jones was part of the first graduating class, bachelor’s
graduating class in 1919 at FAMU. So he was there for eight years: he went
there for four years of high school, and four years of college. While he was there,
the coursework he took as a high school and a college student included
Advanced Physics, German, Current Events, Chemistry, English courses, five
years of Latin, and he maintained a vocational course in tailoring this entire time,
which would have prepared him to come out and enter into the world as a
professional tailor. But he didn’t. Instead, he chose to become a teacher. And he
came here to Gainesville, and in 1922, he founded Lincoln High School. Lincoln
High School lasted in Gainesville, Florida from 1922 to 1970, when it was closed
by the Alachua County School Board as part of the plan and the way in which we
integrated schools. It was closed for several years, and opened later as the
school we now call Lincoln Middle School. However, the history of this school, a
segregated African American school that was here for fifty years, is all but lost,
and certainly untold. There are some things I want you to be aware of and
remember about Lincoln High School, that are extraordinary. The first is that
Lincoln High School was one of two schools in the state of Florida that was
accredited in 1926. So Professor Jones came here in 1922, it was an eighth
grade school, as with most schools around the state. Each year from 1922 to
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1926, he added a grade at that school, which he often taught, and in 1926 it was
a high school. But beyond the fact that it was a high school, it was one of two
schools in the entire state, African American schools, that were accredited, which
meant that the coursework was that of a world-class liberal arts curriculum. It
meant that the teachers at the school all had professional licenses, which was
hugely rare—remember, we’re talking about 1920 Jim Crow life. Okay? So, we
have teachers with professional certifications, and often bachelor’s and master’s
degrees. From 1926 to 1970, as that school continued, the way that that school
grew, was Professor Jones, and the teaching staff who were part of that school,
would graduate a child from high school and say to him, “We’re going to need a
librarian in four years. We’ve prepared you to go to college. You will go off and
get a degree in library science, and come back and be the librarian at this
school.” “We’re going to need a math teacher. You go off—“ The way that this
school grew was that it grew its own teachers, which was extraordinary, and
prepared them to go to college all across the country, as well as to enter into the
trades. So the noted faculty members, and staff, and students from the Lincoln
High School family, include: Charles Chestnut Sr., and the Chestnut family,
whom many of us are familiar with; T.B. MacPherson, for whom the MacPherson
Center, the city recreation center, is named—he was both a student and a
teacher at Lincoln High School; Ms. Wilhelmina Johnson, for whom the other city
recreation center is named—she was both a student and a teacher at Lincoln
High School; Andrew Mickle; Professor John Rawls; Professor John Dukes, who
became the first principal of Eastside High School in 1970 as Eastside High
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School was integrated and built; and a number, a number of other professionals
and tradesmen who built Gainesville, essentially, from 1920 to the 1970s—
including Ms. Claronelle Smith-Griffin, for whom a speaker series is named
today. She was a teacher at Lincoln High School, who, when she graduated in
1926, the speech she gave as an eighteen-year-old to her high school peers in
the audience was, “The Negro’s Contributions to English Literature.” Okay? So
what was Lincoln teaching its students for those fifty years? It was teaching them
their place in the world, as well as what the world’s ideas looked like. I think
we’ve lost a little bit of that today. The last thing I want you to remember about
Lincoln, but I don’t think we talk about it now—I mean, if you do, if you are lucky
to hear the story of Lincoln, you hear about the football team, which was
phenomenal. It played other college teams. You hear about the tennis team. You
hear about the swimming team, if you do hear the story. But you don’t hear that
in 1956, Lincoln was once again accredited—this time, by the regional
accrediting association, which was called SACS. It’s the same association which
accredits high schools today—Buchholz, all of our schools are accredited by
SACS, and our colleges. The fact that Lincoln was accredited by SACS in 1956
as what they called an “accepted school”—that’s what they gave African
Americans, “accepted schools.” In order for an African American school to be
accredited by SACS in 1956 as “accepted,” it had to meet the same rating of
White schools that were “superior.” So that tells me, as a teacher-educator, and
someone who studies schools, that in 1956, if I want to put it in one sentence,
Lincoln had closed its achievement gap, and was an “A” school. Okay? So, why
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does that story matter for us today, other than some nostalgic story of history?
First, it’s clearly a contribution of African Americans to society. I want us to think
about this. Prior to integrated schools, there were phenomenal African American
schools across the country that we don’t even talk about. We need to first talk
about the fact that those schools existed. Second, we need to talk about what
those teachers did in the classroom to have success with the students who were
before them. Today, if you talk to teachers, and teacher-educators, if you listen to
any broadcast on any channel any day that talks about education, what you’re
going to hear are these words: “high poverty.” The students who aren’t
succeeding, they come from backgrounds that are high poverty. Well, let me ask
you: Do we not think that in the middle of Jim Crow, the students who were at
Lincoln were suffering from high poverty rates? Far higher poverty rates than we
are suffering from today. We hear about ‘racial inequality,’ that the students are
victims of racial inequality in their communities. Do we not think that in the middle
of Jim Crow segregation, where people were getting lynched in Rosewood, that
these students who got to school every day and were able to learn were suffering
from racial inequality? But somehow, somebody taught them something every
day that said, “We’re not waiting for the opposition against us to end. We’re going
to make you the young men and women that it is your birthright to be.” I want you
to know that unless teachers are armed with this material, unless we say to
teachers, “It has been done, it can be done, and here’s how you do it,” we’re
going to continue to have excuses about why some children cannot learn. And
for me, that is unacceptable. We today, often in the education field, we’re looking
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at Finland. Finland is what you hear when we think about a successful school
system. I want to suggest to you that we stop looking at Finland, and we start
looking in our own backyard.
[Audience murmurs assent.]
DHo: That’s it, thank you.
[Applause]
D: [Inaudible during applause.] I do want to just make one comment. When
desegregration happened in, our schools were closed, we didn’t have our high
schools anymore. Well there’s one example where that did not happen, and that
was in Monroe, New Orleans—Louisiana. Yes. And I’m doing a study right now
with Dr. Granville. And we’re looking at that system, because they did not have to
close their schools like everybody else around the country. That’s the only one
that I know of that did not have to do that. And so, the fellow that I’m working with
is Dr. Granville, and I can give you information about him, and we can share that.
And we can compare what has happened to all of our schools, and what
happened to that one little town that did not close up their African American
schools, their high schools and so forth. But anyway, we need to move on to our
next speaker. Cassandra?
M: Good afternoon.
Audience: Good afternoon.
M: How many people are parents out there? Or if you’re parents or guardians,
grandparents? Okay. Keep your hands up. I want to see them hands for a
minute. You are responsible. [Laughter] I am responsible. Put your hands down.
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[Laughter] My name is Cassandra. I’m educator and I’m parent. I educate in my
home. What did I say, again? What did I say?
[Audience murmurs something inaudible]
M: So I’m not putting the blame on all teachers. Oh, maybe a little. There are many
books out there that, as parents, we can support our children and help them. I
live in a poor community. So what? I’m here to say that we, as parents, can do
the best for our children. Did you know that there was an African American who
helped develop the cell phone? Did you know that? Did you know that there are
many African Americans in this world who have helped you and me to get where
we’re standing? And I want my children to know our past. I want to tell them
about Harry T. Simmons, who helped to invent the gamma electric phone. The
phone that you put up to your ear? If it wasn’t for him, you wouldn’t have it.
Guess what? He’s an African American. He was the first person to get a degree,
that wasn’t an electrician, to help us to get that cell phone. What I say is that you
are also responsible for the education that goes on in the system. Now I have a
book here. It’s an old book. It says Great Negroes Past and Present. It is a book
that I have used for many years for my children. And I’m sure many of you have
of books that you have used for your children as they come up. Well, what I’m
saying is that you cannot depend all the time on the education system. You are
the first teachers that your children have wired. So it is our responsibility to go
into that school system to find out what your child is learning, how they are
learning it, and who’s teaching it. It is not the Education Department, it is your
responsibility. And if it wasn’t for you making those steps, guess what? A lot of
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things wouldn’t change. So parents, stop being comfortable. Because guess
what? You make the difference. You make a difference with the teacher, you
make a difference with the educators. If you sit down and say, “Oh, well they
know what they need.” No, they won’t. I have two special education children. And
I have to be there every week, because I want to make sure my child is what?
Learning. And they help you know about themselves, to be able to do what? To
move forward. I want them to know that the great African Americans, they built
that pyramid. I want them to find out the Egyptians, who built, the great Blacks.
Because they smart. Many of our people long ago are responsible for the
medical technologies that are here today. But because we have sat down so
long, and been comfortable, as parents and educators, the schools systems can
get away with what? Anything they want. But if you go to school, just like your
child—I have my children here. And I have a seven-year-old. And when she says
something to me, I say, “Hm. Maybe I can convince the school.” But if you say,
“Yeah, okay.” Guess what? You have missed an opportunity to not only educate
yourself, but also your child. Because if she is my child and I care, then they’re
going to make them expect to do better in school. If they know their history—not
only slavery. Slavery’s what? A small part of me as an African American. It is not
my whole history, it is not my cause—
[Applause]
M: And it’s not my future. It is a part of me. And we, as African Americans and as
people, have to stop putting slavery as an excuse. It is not an excuse for my child
to do bad in school. It is not an excuse for me not to go to school to find out why
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they’re not doing better. So, I want to see those hands that raised a little while
ago. Those hands, White parents too. Again. It is on you.
[Applause]
D: Wonderful, wonderful. You’ve really got a good [inaudible 58:29] here. Patricia is
now coming up, and she’s going to share with us her area. I’m going to say that
Kali, he dealt with the history; with Delores, she dealt with the school system and
fusion and separation of the classes—she had a separate class which must be
infused—I’m just putting it into simple terms. Dan, he dealt mainly with the
community. Dealing with the putting it into the churches, because the churches
are doing great things, and the community social organizing. Working with the
community to make sure the history is taught. Now, we come up now to
Cassandra. She just got to talking about parents, and the relationship between
the parents and the schools. But, Deidre: I love what you did as well. Because
you dealt with the Lincoln school. You brought it home. And we must know our
own history, in order to function. Even for the people coming in now; I wasn’t
born and raised here, but my kids went to school here, and I can relate to
Cassandra. I went into the school system practically every day. I have had a child
to go through the school system, so I hear what you’re saying, and I agree. Pat?
H-N: Thank you. Mic over here. And I guess the first thing I want to say is, can I get a
amen?
[Applause]
H-N: Can I get an Ashe!
Audience: Ashe!
AAHP 359; Gainesville Black History Task Force Town Hall; Page 27
H-N: Whoo! I really don’t need to say anything because they really said it all, and you
all are going to be sharing so much more in just a minute. And so, I’m just going
to touch on just a few points here. My husband and I, we were having dinner with
one of my daughters and we asked to see the syllabus for her World History
class. She was a junior—I think she was in tenth or eleventh—but she gave me
the syllabus, and it was a World History class, and there was nothing in the
syllabus about Africa. Okay? And so unfortunately, it was at night, so I couldn’t
run up to the school right then. So I had to wait until the next day. I was one of
those parents who was always there, PTA president, this, that, and the other
thing. But I could not have that and understand that teacher corrected that issue.
But I need to point that out because these are just little things that happen that
people take for granted. How can you have a syllabus, how can you teach a
class in world history and exclude Africa? I couldn’t believe it. We had a meeting
with that teacher, who acknowledged that that was problematic. But I think we all
need to do a little bit of Sankofa, going back to fetch it. It’s an Akan symbol with a
bird looking back. All people, we’re victims of miseducation and that’s part of the
lessons we must learn. Carter G. Woodson talked about this issue, the problem
when you have not learned the history of all people, The Miseducation of the
Negro. And it happens that newspapers, books, television, film, schools, theme
parks. Okay? Where do you have to go when you go to Disney to learn about
Africa? You go to Animal Kingdom, right? The Epcot center they have a small
thing about Morocco, but they really don’t touch on Africa. You can see here just
from the cartoon to the old books that become the new books to the stereotyping
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of popular people. So just a few notes, when we’re talking about this, we’re
talking about presenting the whole story of humanity and not just episodes. The
whole store of African and Black people, and not just episodes. Infused in
multiple disciplines. We want to deal with pre-enslavement, as people have said;
the middle passage, so we can understand—where we talk about pre-
enslavement because we have to understand what life was like before anybody
ever came and faced those problems, and the mental illness and the
miseducation that came about. How did people function then? The use of labor in
the United States to understand how African people built this country with their
labor, despite the fact that people say they’re lazy and shiftless—[Applause]—
and they were inventing things, they were working. We would not have had the
wealth. Even in Alachua County, we would not have the wealth that we have
were it not for those hands. So when we talk about enslaved people, it’s not to
stay there but these were human beings who were inventing things. We don’t
want to skip over that. Because despite what was going on, they were making
contributions, and that’s very important. We have to do it beyond Black History
Month. Because people say, “Oh we’re going to do our Black program in
February, we’re going to write a report about Black people in February, Black
athletes in February.” No, it should be infused everywhere. I’ll give you a few
examples about how it might be done. Okay? So we have diverse history here in
America, we can’t begin to scratch the surface. Kali can dazzle you with certain
things. I can’t think of one thing but I’ll to just touch on a couple of things here.
And then I can’t dazzle you with one fact about Africa, because there’s so many
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things. But I will say that we must start our story in Africa because so far as we
know, that is the origin of humanity. [Applause] And that means that all of us in
this room are what? Family! Everybody in here is my family, is my cousin. We are
all related. And we have to learn that story. You read we start to take on different
phenotypes based on where your people live. Your skin lightens up, your hair
sometimes it gets tightly curled, and then you meet up again somewhere else,
and then it’s like, “Oh, I don’t like you because you look different.” But we are
family. Also in Africa they laid the very foundations when you’re talking about
engineering, when you’re talking about mathematics, when you’re talking about
science. So when people were kidnapped and sent to America, shipped over,
they did not come over here empty. They already knew things, they brought the
talent, they brought the skills with them, and that’s why the miseducation part is
so damaging. Because people were miseducated about that, to the point when I
have visited schools in this school district, and go to the class with the little
children—“How many of you want to go to Paris?” “Yea!” And they’re so sweet.
“And how many of you want to go to Ghana?” And then there’s, “Hm?” And then
there’s, “How many of you want to go to Africa?” “Euggh!” And then I say, “Well,
why not?” “Oh, well they’re poor,” or “They’re stupid,” or “They’re ugly.” The
things that they are taught—and it does start at home, but there are things we
can also do in school. So first, just a few facts as we start just here in Florida,
Alachua County, when we’re talking with kids, and you say, well when do you
know that some Africans came here? We can talk about Juan Garrido who we
know came some five hundred years ago. Five hundred years ago he’s traveling
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with Ponce de Leon, left Ponce de Leon. He traveled with Hernando Cortez,
winds up there in Mexico. Took wheat-growing practices to Mexico. Ivan van
Sertima wrote about Juan Garrido in his book, They Came Before Columbus,
where they were talking about the African presence in South America. And
people said, “Oh that can’t be true,” until what happened? They found his
pension records. When he wrote to the Spanish crown and said, “Look I did
these things. I traveled here, I traveled there.” This was free African explorer who
was traveling with those people. You have to know here in Alachua County
something about Seminoles. Seminole Indians who were mixed people, who
included Africans. Some of their descendants still live in Alachua County. They
didn’t run everybody out. Who included many Africans, including Negro
Abraham, who married Billy Bowlegs’ wife when Billy Bowlegs died. These are
the people who traced Payne’s Prairie right here. Native Americans, these were
Black people right in Alachua County. Some of them fled and made it to the
Bahamas as well, including Osceola, who was mixed. Most of his warriors,
however, were African people. They fled from the Northern states here. So you
know with that middle passage that came later, and you had people saying that
people were enslaved by Africans who participated. People from different
nations: the Portuguese, the Spanish, the Dutch. There were different religious
people who enslaved people. They brought them here, including to the state of
Florida. Here in Gainesville, when you’re talking about Gainesville history I would
think that you could tell children, “Well gee, one of the oldest houses in
Gainesville, the Bailey House, is still standing, and that was built by enslaved
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labor.” You can still go today and see that house on 6th Street. That’s a testament
to the skill. You can talk about the population of Alachua County, and who was
living here during what period. You can talk about the fact that by 1870—I’m
skipping over a lot of information but just to give you a taste—that over 70% of
the population here in Alachua County was Black. Very important. So, African
Americans influenced things with faith, in the faith community. They were always
teaching history. Who was talking about that in the church? We’ve always taught
Black history in the church. That’s always been a thing. Political history, business
history, education, and in fact all of these things were interconnected when
you’re talking about the experience of African Americans in Alachua County. So
what are some practical ways that teachers can touch on little facts related to
African American history? One of the problems I always hear, “Well how can I do
it with Mathematics? I don’t see how I can do it with Mathematics.” Well when
you’re talking about Mathematics, how can talk about the Great Pyramid and not
understand—you have to understand what? Geometry, physics, trigonometry, all
these things I didn’t do that great in. [Laughter] If you can remember them, right?
You also had to know something about astronomy. Because at the time that
those Pyramids were built, there were chutes within the Pyramid where you could
be at a certain place, and look through the chute and observe specific stars in the
night sky. So just to build the Great Pyramid, you had to build some messed up
pyramids to get to that point. Right? But then you all already know about that.
Teaching about African fractals. This man wrote a book about the fractals, and
flying in an airplane and looking at African villages overhead. And he looked at
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the repetition of certain patterns even in how people laid out their village. Look at
the woman here who teaches math by looking at patterns in nature. She borrows
from that African fractal concept and looking at the braids on the woman’s head,
which mirrors the bee’s honey comb, and the comb patterns in the braids.
Wouldn’t that be fun for little children to learn about that? And then of course, the
Rhind Mathematical Papyrus, where they already knew about the Pythagorean
Theorem before Pythagoras was born. We won’t get into all of that. [Laughter
and applause]. Medicine, the Ebers Medical Papyrus they were talking about real
medical recipes to cure things. We’re talking about all kinds of medicine where
people talking about—this is a real interesting one. People know about Cotton
Mather up there in Winston Salem, Massachusetts, but what about one of his
enslaved people, Onesimus? They even know he had slaves and probably didn’t
know about Onesimus, who was enslaved by him, who taught him about the
practice of what? Inoculation, or vaccination against small pox. Look you cut
yourself, put a little bit of the thing in there. Leave it you’ll see, you’ll be protected.
And those who followed the wishes of his enslaved laborer survived at a higher
rate than those who didn’t. Y’all can read about that later, that’s just a little taste
of that. And also, just the midwives. The midwife. I see my friend here Tioga.
That was an old practice, who do you think was delivering all these babies, these
women? Not in a hospital. They had places like Jenny Rowe’s hospital, which
was over here in the Pleasant Street area, and that’s where people would go to
get help. Political Science and Social Studies: we know about Rosa Parks, but
few people know about Claudette Colvin. And few people know about the
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Women’s Political Council who, before Rosa Parks, before Martin Luther King,
were already getting arrested. And they were trying to desegregate the buses,
and trying to earn the right to vote. Claudette Colvin was not the good poster
child they wanted to use, that’s why Rosa Parks—not to take anything from her—
was used. How can you teach art and not mention the Harlem Renaissance?
[Affirmation from audience.] And this happened in elementary school. I
mentioned that to an art teacher who was one of my children’s—I won’t mention
the school. I’m like oh we can do the Harlem Renaissance, and they looked at
me like I was crazy, talking about the Harlem Renaissance. That’s an obvious fun
way. Quote the poetry, the dance, the painting, the philosophy that you can
incorporate dealing with art. The Black Art Movement is another connected
solidly to the so-called Hip-Hop culture and the rap culture, and using that like
Ms. Gloria Merriex did to teach math. And she had a math dance and a math rap.
And may she rest in peace. And so those are just a few—when you’re thinking
about Alachua County, we have traces of the past everywhere here. From the Dr.
Robert Ayers, the first Black doctor here in the area, to the Sanchez family, to
the of course Haile Plantation home people can go and visit. There’s so many
things. I cant go into all of that right now. But just to know that just with the
Chestnut family, that one family—and this is just example of many—they’re
celebrating their one hundred years in business with the funeral home. And many
people don’t realize that not only were they in business that long, but longer than
that, the family has been involved in politics with their great, great grandfather.
This is Charles Chestnut Sr., who founded the funeral home when his
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grandfather, Johnson Chestnut, was on the Gainesville City Commission. The
Charles Chestnut that you all know, this is his grandmother. She was enslaved
here in Alachua County. So see, there’re all these connections, both with people
who had been enslaved and those who were the enslavers who still live here in
this community, work here and do all kinds of things. So that’s important. You
can’t have children graduate from our school system and not know about Josiah
T. Walls, who was a teacher, who was a miller, he owned over a thousand acres
of land here in Alachua County here. He was a state representative, the second
elected mayor, was in Congress three times because they kicked him out. He
had to fight over that. Whereas we would not have another Black
congressperson representing the state of Florida until the early [19]90s when
Alcee Hastings, Gregory Meeks, and Corrie Brown went all those years later.
And then he wasn’t an anomaly. There were many other people like Matthew
Lewey, Johnathan Gibbs—Secretary of Education, Supervisor of Public
Instruction in Florida and look at that: in 1868, 1872. That’s why we have public
education in the state of Florida today. [applause] Okay? Because he saw that
vision. In fact, it was controversial, and there was some funny business about
how he died. There’s James Weldon Johnson. Yes, he wrote, “Lift Every Voice
and Sing,” but James Weldon Johnson was also a lawyer. Was also an activist.
Was also heavily involved in the NAACP. And there were others: Henry Carman,
admitted to the Bar in 1869; John Wallace, another one, his son’s still living in
Jacksonville. So there are other people, there are other names that we would
involve, but it’s very important that we take this holistic approach. I agree that we
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infuse, and have separate classes. And we haven’t scratched the surface of the
information that is available. And I know that there are many people that are out
here that have stories to tell. So I’m going to cut this short, but I want to stress
that it is our parents, that the children have responsibility, definitely the teachers,
the deans, the principals, the elected officials, and we’re all a part of the
community. So I can say, let’s just get busy and stop wasting time and coming up
with excuses. Thank you! [Applause]
D: All right, that was outstanding. It really was. [Applause] It was beautiful, thank
you Patricia. Now we know it’s on our program, it says, “Question and answers,”
but I want to put something else in here just before we get there. We’ve heard so
much, but I want to make sure that we know the people from the Task Force and
other areas who are here. I waited to do that to make sure everyone was in
place. Those that are here from the Alachua County School Board—I did see
McNeal here. Any other school board members, would you please stand up
school board members. And I’m sorry I don’t know McNeal—. [Applause].
[Inaudible 1:18:30] Yes, I understand. And we thank you so much for coming. I
was trying to wait until everybody was here from the division. So we’re [inaudible
1:18:45] and also McNeal, he’s here. Thank you so much. And then we have–I
don’t know if we have any city commissioners here. I didn’t see any. We’ll skip
down to—oh, is there a city commissioner here? Please stand. [Discussion] All
right, so we did have a city commissioner here. Two? All right, excellent,
excellent! Okay, so school board, two people; city commission, two people. I’d
like to know if we have any elementary school teachers here. Elementary? All
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right, middle school? Any middle school teachers here? [Applause] All right
[inaudible 1:19:36] back there. High schools, all right, Marna, we have two high
school teachers here. Excellent, excellent. Now, I just want to have the task force
members to stand. All of you that are here, and Dr. Simmons just came in.
Where is she? The planning committee and all of us, please. [Applause] Yes.
These people need to be recognized. Thank you so much. They have worked so
hard to make sure we have this town hall meeting, and we have the opportunity
to express our desires and help the community. Now we going to go back to the
question and answer, from the community and from the panel. And I’d like you to
just raise your hand if you have a question. And then, in turn, we’ll have the panel
members to respond to you. And while you’re getting that in line, keep in mind
that Kali is the first one at the end down there, and he talked mostly—
[Applause]—he talked mostly about our history and African American history and
how important it is. Delores talked about the schools, being a teacher in the
school system. She talked about offering separate course. She also talked about
infusing the subject matter or doing both, and how she went about getting a
course set up in the Gainesville area. Dan talked about the community. He talked
about the churches, and he gave us the name of one of the pastors, Willie Ross.
He talked about the singing and the other activities that we have in the
community, and how he interacted in teaching African American history. Deidre
did a wonderful job of talking mainly about Lincoln and the relationship with
Lincoln and how it grew. And how in the world did they close up Lincoln when
that that school was accredited by the SACS association with so many other
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schools that were non-African American that did not have that accreditation?
[Applause] That’s something we need to look at and talk about. That’s why I
brought up the Monroe school that we know, that did not have to do that. Okay,
the next person was Cassandra, and she talked about parenting, and what
parents have to do and should be doing in working with their children. And she
made another strong point in regards to slavery; and we don’t just teach slavery,
but we teach everything up to present. Because slavery’s just one aspect of our
history. But I will say that not teaching slavery in the sense of not dealing with the
sex trade and the drug trade, that’s a form of slavery that we cover, and that’s
slavery, too, that’s affecting people all across this country. All right, now we have
Patricia. And Patricia, I’m going to give you the title of world history, and I put
there, “Going back to fetch it.” I love that term, and Sankofa. And then she went
on to talk about the miseducation of the Negro. But you know, I think the bottom
line of all of this is economics. If we go back to economics and telling the truth, I
think that’s where you should be. But anyway, those are just general points. Now,
we’re opening it up for discussion. So if you would raise your hand. I may not
know you—and, yes.
Audience 1: Ray Washington. I was fortunate enough to attend some of the sessions
that Kali had at the Civic Media Center. One of the things that really had an effect
on me in particular was to see young Black males who were so interested in this.
And this idea that it doesn’t interest people, it’s fascinating. It’s about who people
are, how they think, where they come from. And so I want to ask you a question,
but before I do, I’ll give a little background about why I’m asking it. Whether you
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are White or you are Black, whether you’re Hispanic, African history is important
to everybody. It’s not just important to African Americans. When I was a young
man I went to the Zimbabwe ruins. In 2011, my son was in the Peace Corps in
Mali. I went over there. We started in Timbuktu, which is an African center of
learning, but unfortunately Al-Qaeda had come in to burn the libraries there. So
those are the original sources, but here when you’re looking at the stories, one of
the problems is who is the author of the stories. And when I was a very young
man, in my early twenties, in the early [19]80s I wrote a column for the New York
Times company, and someone else came up with the idea, and they called it
“Cracker Florida.” Now, I was sent out for a number of years to go around the
state and talk to people whose experience went back—in other words, who had
something to do with the state. But I always found that the Black communities
were most connected, and so I ended up having to do a book about this. And I
had to know [inaudible 1:25:10]. So I wrote the foreword, and the foreword of the
book was something like, you know a Muslim from Africa who’s going through the
Middle Passage, in a multi-river town in Belize, there is actually a lot more in
common in their central worldview than a African American in this country who
may be living right next to a cattle rancher in Sulfur Springs. So, there are
worldviews that are there, and it’s really important to see that. A couple of
examples of this. I went out in the early [19]80s hunting with a guy named
[inaudible 1:26:01] who lived in Rosewood. And this is to show you how different
angles work on stories, this was long before anyone knew about Rosewood. It
came up later in the [19]80s. And so, we were out cutting down palm trees. I’m
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not sure if it was legal, but we were taking the hearts of palm out. That’s what his
business was, and I was just watching him cutting. I said, “Can you tell me some
stories about what’s here?” He said, “You have homesteads this way.” He said,
“The only thing that ever happened here was the Rosewood riot.” The riot. So, to
the White folks, this was a bunch of Black people who were rioting, and it was
their fault. And so, there was no history. So I was asked to be a lecturer at the
Journalism school at the University of Florida, and somebody asked me, “What
are the stories that you haven’t gotten around to writing about?” I said, “Hey, this
is a great story about Rosewood.” There was a guy in the audience from
Mississippi who was writing all this stuff down. He later came back and said,
“Can you tell me more about this?” I said sure. Gave him some information. He
later went down to St. Pete Times, wrote the story—
D: Yeah. Gary Moore.
Mitchell: —kind of went crazy. He’s my questions. Who writes the story is what
matters, and that initial story that Gary Moore wrote is not the story that has
evolved as time goes on. So even though—the story of Abraham; in the early
[19]80s, there was a guy named [inaudible 1:27:45], a White man, who ran the
Negro [inaudible 1:27:45]. I met him, and he explained to me these [inaudible
1:27:50] that where and there were people at this fort that were massacred, but
from that point of view, they were people who were bad people who needed to be
put down. So my question is, how can history, in this kind of environment, be
taught? And I’ll just give you one last example. It’s a broad question about who
writes history. One last thing, it’s very important. As many of you know–Kali I
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think you’re from Detroit or Michigan or something. Elijah Muhammad, his name
is Elijah Poole. He grew up around Detroit. Went up to Detroit, tried to teach
Black history in the schools there and was—it was called the University of
Islam—and he was arrested for contributing to the delinquency of a minor. Even
though the kids had a school. So we’re past that now but there are impediments
to teaching. It’s not just can you teach it, it’s what are you teaching. So my
question, with all that general background, how do you teach and know that
you’re teaching a story that has maybe the grain of truth to the people who lived
through it?
D: All right, we have Kali, would you please pass the microphone?
B: I definitely understand that question, and every time I’ve been involved in a
teaching situation—as you see on the quiz you were handed out, on the side with
the answers, it’s a big question mark. It says, “Question the source. If you trust,
then verify.” So it is important at any time to teach from multiple sources,
especially sources that come across different time periods. I talked about human
origins and told you that the biological, the historical, and the archaeological
record agree. So you look for multiple agreements, multiple sources, so it’s
trusted and verified. What we have in schools, the Greco-Roman origin of
civilization, is not verified, it’s just a popular paradigm set up on myths and
legends.
D: Are there any other comments from any of the other panel members? Yes,
Deidre, you can take my microphone.
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DH: I think the first thing that we need to do with regard to children is remind them it is
that not just okay but it is necessary to question. So you have to teach your child
that questions about how come?, why is that?, who said it?, all the stuff that we
say is kind of disrespectful, those are really essential habits of mind to have if
you want to get at what’s the truth, and whose truth is it. There might be a way in
which you pose those questions that are respectful, and respectful of the people
you’re speaking with, but we have to re-instill in children that they have to ask
those questions and they have to be comfortable asking those questions.
D: Thank you are there any other comments? Yes!
M: I think also now there are many different sources, and also you can do a lot of
research. Like when my son wrote something for a paper, he went to many
different sources. And many of us as adults, we do that. We don’t go to one
source, we go to many sources to look up to see who can verify the fact. And I
think when it comes to teaching African American, even in the home and at
school, we have to look at many sources and to see how they either correspond
or contradict. Because African American history, again, is an infusion; it is not
just one thing, it is an infusion of many different cultures, also. Africa is not just of
one culture or one language. There are many thousands of different languages
and many different practices. And when you come down to it, you have to also
look at the stories.
H-N: The source, the source, the source. And as we repeat information, it’s very
important to use sources, or at least have some type of bibliography or citation
sheet that you can send to people. But I agree with what they said, part of our job
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is to teach people to think critically, and that’s probably one of the greatest
challenges sometimes as a teacher, particularly when you’re teaching African
and African American history and culture. Because people have been socialized
to perceive Black people a certain way, women a certain way. And so you have
to first tear down some of those stereotypes, if you will, and free their mind, so
that they can be critical observers of everything that they see in their culture. And
even if they’re holding the book, what is the source? Who said it? Under what
circumstances? Especially because we have taught people that what you get—if
it’s printed, then it’s accurate. Or if it’s in the newspaper, unless [inaudible
1:33:39]’s writing it—[Laughter]—it’s accurate. And we know that people lie. And
unfortunately our children have not learned that. And as lies get repeated, that’s
why we’re in this situation today. So very important to present the citation and
teach them to be critical observers.
D: Thank you for these comments. And I believe these are very direct to what we
need. Yes ma’am. I don’t know your name. Would you stand and give your name
and we’re going to give the microphone to you? [Discussing the microphone]
Audience 2: I was in tenth grade doing history and I asked a question, “Well you said
about the light bulb, but do you know about the who made it? It wasn’t a White
person, it was a Black person that made it. It was just the White person got it
from a Black person. Do you know that? And I got in a lot of trouble, I actually got
a referral for even questioning her. So how do you go about doing that if you are
going to get in trouble?. A lot of students get in trouble when they question it, and
then they getting referrals and things like that just for saying something.
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D: All right this is a perfection question that needs to be—Cassandra, you want to—
all right can I—?
M: I’ll address it because I’m the parent so I had to deal with the school system with
things like that. Again, you have to approach the teacher, and you approach
those who are in charge. Because we have to go through the school board to find
out. So that many of the things that she had as referrals would be taken off the
records, because she asked questions, and that meant, that was many of her
problems, that sometimes the teachers do not like the challenge but they do not
know the knowledge. Again, it comes up to a problem of the knowledge. If you
are going to teach, you also need to know. And that’s sometimes where the
problem comes in. Many of our teachers don’t know the material of African
Americans. Maybe they’re afraid to approach it because they feel that they will be
criticized, or that they don’t know how to teach the subject. And the thing is, if
you’re learning along with the children, it is easy. But if you’re going to take a
defensive stand, it becomes a problem for both of you.
B: I have a response. I am very disturbed by the fact that you went through that just
for trying to get the truth as a student, as a learner, and your teacher was
punishing you for seeking and correcting. Now that’s what I want to talk to, our
intellectual regression. What should have happened back then, the situation we
hope to build going forward, so that we get the implementation of this law, is that
at that time you as a student should have been able to go home and tell that to a
parent who has studied some of these books we have over here. And that parent
can go, “I know the history, and you will not punish my child over history.” That’s
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what we need. The ten counties where this has been implemented were counties
where the community took the place of the missing implementation structure of
this law. Every time a law is passed in Florida, they have to go through a set of
volumes called, “The State Administrative Code.” And they put chapter and verse
of exactly how that law must be carried out, what will it look like, who’s
responsible, when it’s supposed to happen, how it will be evaluated, and what is
your punishment if you don’t do it. All that stuff was not done for this law. In the
copy, you see where I underlined the words “encourage” and “pursue.” Those are
not words that make a law happen. This is law has happened in ten counties
where you, the community, said, “We pay for these schools, we know the law, we
vote you into office, and you will do this.” That’s what we’re calling on for you to
do. So these books over here, this library has a tremendous collection of the
history that many of us need to catch up on. It’s so tragic. I talked about how
Africans came to this country, separated from they story. So some of us are in
situations today, we’re tired to go out and tell people, “You don’t know your
history.” It sounds insulting. How do I tell someone, maybe older than myself,
“You don’t know your history?” And they may be a pillar of the community, have a
house three times bigger than mine, and I’m going to say, “You don’t know your
history?” But they think they do. Because they know Harriet Tubman, and Martin
Luther King, and Frederick Douglass, and think that’s it. But one of the symptoms
of amnesia, I talked about being a victim of amnesia. One of the main symptoms
of amnesia is similar to a person with a heart attack. That first phase is denial,
unawareness of not knowing what is missing. So we need to get past that phase.
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And so we need you, this community, to get into that material, study it, know it,
share it; that’s why we have sign-up lists over there. We want you to sign up for
the books you’re interested in, and we’re going to help the library circulate these
books quicker, but we want you discussing this. And then we have a cadre of
people who go back to the teachers, back to the school board, and say, “We
know what the history is. It’s not right here. And you can’t tell us that what we
know is not right.”
D: Thank you so much. I’d like to call on this lady. I’m sorry, I can’t see your name
tag? Oh, that’s right I’m sorry. Okay then, thank you.
Audience 3: My question speaks to some of obstacles to teaching African and African
American history in our schools. And I first want to say that I, as an educator, see
our current paradigm of education deteriorating and collapsing. And in that
deterioration comes very promising new ways of thinking about education.
Historically, history has been taught in a way that teaches our youth that we’re
divided, that we’re divided into different tribes. And it’s been alluded to here that
we all have a common African ancestry when it goes back. I think if we are able
to communicate that in our history, starting in elementary school, then we’re
couching our social studies history in unity and community. Another really
promising way of education, looking at global education, is cultural competence
for teachers. And I think that that’s a really big obstacle for getting teachers to
teach African—specifically African American history—because there are so many
elements in the room. It’s emotionally very charged, and I think that cultural
competence involves looking at cultural lenses, so making explicit for teachers
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regardless what their background is, what their cultural lens is, will empower
them to teach subjects that they might not be comfortable teaching. And then
lastly, I’m curious if you considered social-emotional learning, which is gaining a
lot of importance in this new paradigm in education. And I don’t think that we can
effectively teach African American history without a social-emotional component,
because it will bring up a lot of emotions with the teachers and for the
administration, but most importantly for the students. And it’s those emotions and
social dynamics, since our schools are probably one of the largest reflections of
institutionalized racism in our communities, and so if you don’t, especially in the
upper grades, not looking at those emotions that are being brought up, then it’s
not really a successful effort. So I’m just curious have you looked at those global
education, in looking at African history, but then also the social-emotional
component, and that’s something to discuss.
D: With your question, we’ll have the panel to respond, but I want to go back to this
young lady, because what happened with her child is tied right into what you
said. It was an attitude of the teacher toward that child. And teachers have to-
especially elementary, we have to be able to listen to the child and accept what
they are saying, and not feel threatened. It seems as if that teacher, from what I
heard, was somewhat threatened by what the child asked. So what I’m seeing is
more in-service education for these teachers, so that they will have opportunity to
deal with some of situations that they are going to come across. It needs to go
back into the colleges too, before they come out, and make sure that they’ve
some diversity training and other types of training that will allow them to work
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with students of all kinds and cultures. Because I mean, there are so many
cultures out there now, and they have to be sensitive to those. And I see this as
where you are responding, and this is seemingly one of the keys if we are going
to go forward. We can teach it in our communities, yes. But we’ve got to have the
teachers on board, because they are to work with all students. So I’m going to
open this up to the panel if you have more—okay, Deidre?
DH: Hey Leah! So this is what I’ve learned. You used a lot of really modern
educational, cutting edge terms like social-emotional learning. When I think about
A. Quinn Jones, and when I’m reading what he did, and his research, we would
call that having some kind a moral sense of values, and some guiding virtues
with which they would interact with children. So, know that you’re a person in the
world, and that this is another person, and both of you have equal footing as far
as being two humans in this world. So I think that they’re not new concepts at all;
social and emotional learning, and giving a child—Dr. John Dukes, who becomes
a principal of another school, he talks about, in the oral history transcript, about
one day when he was making fun of A. Quinn Jones. And A. Quinn Jones stood
and watched him. He watched John Dukes make fun of him in front of the whole
class, he didn’t know that professor A. Quinn Jones was behind him. And he let
him make fun of him, and say all that, and parrot the way he talked and—the way
that children do when they’re talking about their teachers. And when he was
finished, he just looked at him and said, “Are you finished now?” And the young
man, of course, is like, “Yes, sir.” And then he didn’t say another word for a good
five minutes of silence, and then he went back to whatever professional
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conversation he was having with this child, which says a whole lot more than,
“You know you shouldn’t blah, blah, blah,” but to say, “I don’t even have time to
stoop to that level. My job is to bring you up.” So there are ways that our people
have done this for a really long time that we might want to put back on the table.
And I also want to suggest with regard to—we’re talking about “cultural
competency.” So that’s the new catchphrase in education. We’re talking about
cultural responsible teaching, and cultural competency, and how teachers need
to understand the students they’re working, with and we need to send them to an
in-service to learn about the students. Professor A. Quinn Jones mandated that
the teachers who were going to teach at Lincoln live in the neighborhoods that
the students lived in. [Applause] That makes sense to me! I couldn’t say that in a
school board meeting today. I mean, somebody would tell me about how it’s my
law, it’s my right, I can’t do that, you can’t tell me where to live, and whatever.
That’s where we are today in education. But I do want to just put on the table,
that that is an option in the real world that has been used, and it seemed to be
pretty successful. And he required teachers to go to the churches where the
students were attending church and the families were attending church, and in
the speeches that I’ve read of his, and in his professional development, never
once did it say you need to believe the faith that they’re believing. But that’s
where they are. So you need to be there on Sunday. And when you’re there, you
need to talk to them about the school and what we’re doing. So there are a lot of
way to look at how to make some sensible decisions with our children that are
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old. I’m continually just trying to suggest that we’ve got some old ways that
worked. [Applause]
D: Thank you, thank you. Any other comments? All right, we’ll go to the microphone
and yes. Oh, she’s holding it! All right well then the lady, I’m sorry miss, I don’t
know your name, but tell me your name again.
Audience 3: I had a question about the history and what we knew. We already knew
what we were talking about, so that’s why I questioned it in the first place. And
the teacher did not know how to answer or to question me back, and a lot of the
kids I was talking to, they didn’t have any idea what I was talking about. When I
told them about the Black person that I knew, they looked at me and told me that
none of that happened. I was like, “No. This did happen, and I have the book to
prove it.” The book that my mom was talking about [inaudible 1:48:50]. I went to
the kids and they thought I was crazy because I would tell things that happened,
and they would say, “No, it didn’t. No, that’s not right. We didn’t get taught this in
school.” And a lot of them didn’t know what African American history was. And
we’re saying that we need to teach the teachers, but we need to teach the kids,
too, at home. If they don’t know when they come to school, they have no idea.
We have to teach them at home.
D: Yes, anybody on the panel? And then we’re going to that lady in the white. Hi,
would you give us your name please?
Audience 4: Hi my name is Malia Mojia. And I just wanted to ask the panel what your
ideal vision for this is? Because I am a student at the university to be an
educator, and like Deidre was saying, it’s hard to—cultural competency, teaching
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people how to teach this. I don’t see it working out. The teachers that are being
prepared now to teach really don’t have, or are not interested, in really
implementing something like this, Black history into their courses. And maybe
they don’t believe it. And so what is your ideal vision for the schools, for Black
children, and for including Black history in schools?
R: I think part of the vision has to be enforcement of the law. That the law was
written for a reason, and that part of the reason that people are not interested is
because they know they don’t have to be. They’re not being trained because
people have chosen not to obey the law. So if I were enrolled in education
curriculum at the University of Florida, or at Florida A & M, or wherever, and it
was being taught, I would be interested. Or if it were not being taught and I came
out of those universities and could not get a job in a county because when I
interviewed I told them I knew nothing about what they were talking about, I’d go
back to those universities and make sure that it was being taught. [Applause]
DHa: My many, many years of experience in public schools, I realized that each school
has many people that have strengths and many, many have weaknesses. And I
think if we’re going to do a real quality job of infusion or separate classes,
whatever we need, each school needs a lead teacher. The lead teacher has to
be someone—and I think they would have to be so highly motivated that it’s not
offered as an extra pay kind of thing, but somebody that really has the energy
and the expertise and so on to put themselves into it. As we often say, those of
us who are activists—and I’m here today because of my beginning activism in
the [19]60s and the Civil Rights Movement, and it’s never left me—but we need
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people that such a earnest passion for doing this that they will either make
themselves available to go into another teacher’s classroom and take care of this
idea or demonstration. I think of it as something that if it’s done in a quality way,
it’s excellent. But if you have somebody that already had a bias and prejudice,
and they were teaching Black history, it could be a disaster. So, each school
needs a lead teacher.
D: It will depend on each principal and others there too, as to how and who is going
to teach it. Yes, Sir?
Audience 5: My name is Arkell Hammond. My question is, besides the teachers—I
mean, it got to be a higher-up, besides the teachers, that got to put this out there
and teach classes and teach school. Because the teachers have lost, too. And
how can we get through that loss? And my question is, also, is Black history—
how would we go about infusing the truth of history itself? So, you say that this
guy invented the light filament. You say it was a big thing, like, a commercial just
went on about a light filament. And first thing that come on the commercial is
Thomas Edison. All right? So—and you said you know it’s not true. But how do
we change the people who already say that they got it set, and memorized that?
“This is the way it is.” Some people say Jesus Christ was Black. Some people
say, “I’m not going to change Jesus and put it out there. You know, Jesus up in
the church now is a Black Jesus, and we used to”—Michelangelo’s cousin and
whatever. So, where do we go from there?
D: All right. Panel? If none of you got a problem—
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H-N: Well, I guess these two questions are related, because he’s asking questions
about how we can implement these things, or what are these things, or how we
can do that. And I think that, first of all, in both cases, both of you are teaching.
And even though she’s at the school, in Education, to be a teacher, she’s already
doing it, I happen to know. [Laughter] So you know how to do it. You, too,
Jocelyn, looking over here now. But we have many examples of people who are
doing just that. And I think we need to learn from those people who have already
been successful. Right here, we have a school called Caring and Sharing. I don’t
know how many of you have been there to volunteer? [Applause] Yeah. There
are examples right here in Alachua County. There are examples of teachers,
here in Alachua County, quite frankly, who are doing an excellent job. But it is a
challenge, because those being trained, if you look to the certain institutions
where they’re being trained—especially if you are in graduate school, and
sometimes you may be the only person in certain classes that have this certain
worldview—it can be very, very lonely. [Laughter] And so, it becomes very
important for you to remain connected to the community, connected to those
scholars and those places where people can take you to another level. Because
there are people all over the country who have thought deeply about this, and
written about this. And when they were in school, they were the only ones, okay?
[Laughter] At that time. And so—but you never give up. The other thing is,
sometimes the people who are the most successful are the ones who have not
even had the degrees. When you look at examples—we’ve talked about this in
our meetings—certain places that—California. Some of you have heard of the
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Marcus Garvey school in California, where you have people who—most of them
knew our children are suffering. They’re having issues, and this is something—
not just in history, right? Because it is connected to this trauma, this community
trauma that’s going on. And so they said, “We have to prepare ourselves, as
parents and community people. So, what happened? You had people from the
community who didn’t have degrees, learn, taught themselves Physics. Taught
the Physics to the students, who were in elementary school. Taught them
algebra, taught them Trigonometry. And then they went and competed in
contests. Math contests. Which is something that they used to do at Lincoln also,
with students at what? Private schools. And would beat them! Yeah. I’m not up
on what’s happening there this year, last year. But these are things that were
happening. So, it was doing somebody who said, “This has to happen,
regardless of whether I have the money, regardless of whether this person is
writing the book, or—this is my goal. And didn’t have the degree. But what did
they do? They were able to raise achievement in the children in spite of that. And
so, I think you have to tell those stories and learn, as Deidre said, what they were
doing. Learn from the people who succeeded. And to properly translate that into
what we have to do today, as far as the drama—if it was the terminology again,
what—
D: Cultural comprehensive.
H-N: Cultural, cultural, social, emotional. Okay. That is our reality in the United States
of America, and the world. We’re all going through that constantly. But at the end
of the day, if the information has to be taught, it has to be taught. Nobody—after
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9/11, they immediately said, “We’re going to take a day. And we want all the
children to wear” what? Red, white and blue. You all may not remember, I had
children in school. There was no question that this was something important. We
want to unite the country behind what happened here. They had special days,
they had classes, they had speakers to focus everybody’s attention to that. So
sometimes we know and we want to do it, we do it. The question is, do we have
the will to do it in all of these areas? When we’re talking about demonizing
people in some other country that we are going to war with, they have no
problem, they’re not talking about emotional trauma despite the type of child who
may be in the class, who may be in there wearing some a hijab or something.
And everyone is going around disrespecting brown people. But then the minute
you start saying, “Well now we have to start talking about Africa, we have to start
talking about enslavement,” it’s like, “Oh, well, they’re beating up on me.”
Nobody’s beating up on— that’s history. That’s a part of it. So I think that—I’m
not dismissing that, because it can be very painful, and you’re absolutely right.
But I think that we will handle that the way we’ve also handled some of these
other issues that we’ve always addressed. But I think that we don’t say—we’re
not saying don’t address that, by any means, but that’s from personal experience
I know that that’s usually the rhetoric. “Oh, we don’t want to go there,” or “We
don’t want to raise that,” and I’m thinking, “Well, raise what?” You know, “What
are you talking about? Raise what?”
Audience 3: I’m saying the opposite, I’m saying we do want to go there. Part of going
there, to really go there, means that you have to address the emotions that come
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up. Because emotions are what drive learning. It’s really emotions that drive
attention, and drive authentic learning. So if those emotions aren’t addressed in a
classroom and with teachers, then it’s not really going to be an authentic learning
environment; memorize the names, and memorize the dates, but not really
causing change in our collective consciousness.
M: Okay, while she’s checking for more questions.
D: We’re going to have to cut this out in about another ten minutes, really.
M: For an African American child who had always been taught that slavery is
something that brings them down, the only one who is actually being emotional is
most of the time the teacher. I’m not trying to be rude to teachers, because I’m
one also. But many times it is a challenging position to a teacher because they’re
at the point where how do we deal with this child, because this child is telling us
information we’re not sure about dealing. Number one, the child is just asking a
question. Pick the offense and the defense out of it, you have just a child asking
a question. When you put that as that’s a child as a person, not an emotion or not
challenging you about Africa or slavery, when you take that emotion out of it, a lot
of things stop right there. I’ve seen that in my classroom and I’ve seen that out of
the classroom. Pick the emotion sometimes out, and when you slowly introduce it
back in, you have a different atmosphere in the classroom. But that’s where the
problems come in, we’re so charged, we’re so ready for attack, that we forget
everything else. Think about that child that’s standing in front of you or those
children that are in your class, they just people like you who are going through a
history that maybe they [inaudible 02:02:53] or may not. It’s a question. Answer it
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past that. Then you introduce other things in it. When you do that, you take all of
the pretense, you take the anger, you take the jealousy, and sometimes your
own preconceptions that you bring in about that child, and about the history. And
when you take that away, a lot of things go away. Again, it’s emotions—we all
are emotional people; Black, White, or whatever your color is. We are emotional
people, and we’re going to be emotional about our history. It is our history, it is a
part of us. However, asking a question. It takes away a lot when you take that
away and just put it as that.
Audience 4: I would argue that emotions are the main obstacle to teaching African and
African American history.
M: Yes, it is.
Audience 4: I think it’s emotions that are standing in the way. So unless we’re able to
explicit, we can’t move forward. So for a White teacher that’s teaching African
American history, they need to look at, “What’s coming up for me. Oh, I’m feeling
feelings of guilt, why is that?” Processing those emotions on their own or with
their colleagues, and also just emotions in having a sense of what emotions will
come up. I think it’s really important we need to address that we really want to
use this.
D: Okay. Let’s have one more comment. We have people who are leaving, it is 4:15,
and we want to get you out of here as close to the time.
Audience 6: I just wanted to share—I brought this one in about like for instance how we
know we’re encouraged to remember the Holocaust, but for some reason this
should be buried. I guess kind of what you were saying because that happened
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over there and they could blame the people over there, and I think because it’s
such an ugly thing that took place they want to keep it covered. Now I worked in
a middle school in the country, a high school out in the country, it’s sad. We’re
talking about history, we can’t even discuss the elections. A high school, and
they can’t even discuss the elections in 2008 and 2012 because all hell is about
to break loose. It couldn’t even be discussed. I mean how retarded! Another
thing, back when I used to do Black History Month programs at that particular
school, every Black History program, a third of the Caucasian children’s parents
would come and yank them out of school. It’s really sad because these programs
were excellent; Patricia did one. In fact, the very last one that I did. It was Sherry
DuPree speaking about this topic. They were literally yanked off the stage, I was
made to have this little ten minute assembly. It was ridiculous! Because that
principal was under such pressure that she was worried about what was going to
happen to her, that she couldn’t even relax for us to have that program. I’m telling
you they yanked Sherry and Ms. Ludwig off that stage. And at that point I gave
up, I said, “Not me again. I’ve had it.” I was so embarrassed. So I’m just saying
you have parents teaching this hate, and the children are coming with the hate.
So I’m just going to say, good luck!
[Applause]
W: I think we have covered several areas. We’re going to skip down to the next step.
Did you have a comment? We’re moving down to the next step, and then—we
could do an intermission, we’ve done the feedback questions and testimony
pretty much already. We want to thank you so much for your input and a different
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perspective. Also Ray, I’m very impressed with what you have come forth, and
the point of it is, we do have to have someone writing for us and changing things
for us. Because the person with the pen controls, and as long as we know that,
we can’t be but we should be. I’m trying to close with a few remarks here. I have
one suggestion for the community: we need to start a community blog. Most of us
are online, and since we are online, most of us we can express our feelings
there, and we can continue our conversations through the blog. The blog can be
open so other people can read it of course, and we can get maybe some
discussion in the right places. Because going out to some of these schools it’s
not going to happen, because not only the principal, you’ve got to look at the
superintendent that’s above him because he’s controlling. He controls. And from
the superintendent down to your principals and supervisors and so forth. So we
got to go up the ladder, we’ve got to have some writers, and like I said, if we do a
blog, all of us can expresses ourselves, and bring this course back. Carol, yes,
she’s on our board. Would you pass the microphone to her, because her voice is
soft. Now, she is a Civil Rights activist, we all know.
Audience: Yea Carol! [Applause]
Carol Thomas: Listen, this is such an incredible afternoon. And I want to thank the
panel, you have been so informative. We can’t let this stop here. I think lots of
very important [inaudible 2:08:37]. I thank you for what you have done and
become a part of this process. We need to have an evaluation of this and decide
where we’re going from here, because it’s an issue of people power, and we’ve
got the power. The superintendent, he is an employee of ours. [Applause] And
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school boards is employed or voted in by us; they are our public servants. And
we need them to advocate for us. I don’t know, I can’t remember if there’s going
to be an evaluation meeting tomorrow night at the Wilhelmina Johnson Center or
if it’s the next week. It’s next week, the third of November, at the Wilhelmina
Johnson Center at 6:00 PM. I urge all of you, because all we need is all of us to
make changes that will support what we get to do in the future. I mean, this issue
is as important to White people in a diverse world. We need to understand our
own place. It’s not where we are now, and where we think [inaudible 2:09:58].
We need to hold it together, and it’s going to take all of us to do that. And some
humility and relearning things about White people’s history to tell us something
else.
D: Thank you so much, Carol. They don’t know about making the third meeting.
Well I wanted to go through supporters, we’ve had several supporters and they
are listed on the program: Wild Iris Books, Civic Media Center, the Porters Youth
Center, our Yoga Dance, Cultural Arts Coalition, the Southern Legal Council,
Three Rivers Legal Association, African American Histories, African American
Studies at UF, Alachua County Labor Coalition, Unitarian Social Justice
Committee, the Samuel Proctor Oral History Project, and also I’m going to add
UNESCO-TST even though we didn’t get it on here, and there are probably
others. We want to thank you for taking the opportunity to share and be a part of
what we are doing at this time. I am going to ask Kali to come and close us,
because he is a good friend who’s worked so hard to get all of this done.
AAHP 359; Gainesville Black History Task Force Town Hall; Page 60
B: Thank you, but I want you to reserve the applause for later and for yourselves.
What we need now is action. The new superintendent has expressed support,
but he cannot turn this system around all by himself. This is down to individual
action. It comes together collectively, but if you all don’t act, it’s not going to
happen. We need for you, the community, to get into that history material, to
study it, learn it, share it, and take it back to the school board. There’s a school
board meeting either this Tuesday evening or the following Tuesday evening, I’ve
forgotten the date. There’s a citizen comment time. This citizen comment time is
going to be filled up with the demands for what we want, not just on this issue but
all the time. But we need for that superintendent to be supported by the
community in implementing this. Okay? This needs to be promoting in the
communities and the schools. We need to have people talking about Imhotep as
much as Oprah in the supermarket line. Some of you are going, “Who’s
Imhotep?” [Laughter] We need for you to take the action. So it’s down to—I hope
you all leave this room thinking, “What can I do?” And realizing that if you don’t
do something, it’s not going to happen. It’s you. So please try to study these
materials. One book that is not over there is Africa, Mother of Western
Civilization by Yosef Jochannan. There is phenomenal material in this library, the
school system had a curriculum for African and African American studies in 1989.
In the [19]89-[19]90 school year it was brought here and sat and collected dust.
So it’s not a lack of materials, it’s a lack of political will. It’s the community that
will change that. If your superintendent, who is in support, comes back, sees the
school board facing constant demands on that microphone in the citizen
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comment. You get three minutes to talk about anything you want to, as long as
you don’t curse or throw chairs. So you can go there and tell the school board
what we need, what we want. The school board hears it and comes in agreement
with the superintendent. The people in the community will learn it and get to look
at what the children are being taught and reflect back to the school on that.
That’s the circle that we need y’all to complete.
D: Thank you, I’d like to have Dr. Simmons to come forward because she just came
back. Please come forward. Because she’s our representative now to the state of
Florida for the African American History Taskforce. She’s been doing a
magnificent job. I was talking to the representative down in Tampa the other day
and he told me, “Oh I know her.” I said, “Yes you do.” And so I’d love for her to
have a couple of words just to let us know who she is and what she represents,
because she represents Alachua County.
Gwendolyn Zohorah Simmons: Greetings to everyone and thank you. I think that you
have been richly blessed with information, and the now is action. Because only
we can make—and let’s be clear about it—make this happen. And we have to be
involved beyond coming to one meeting. Now, we didn’t get to do some of the
action things that we had planned, so that suggests to me that we going to have
to have a follow up to this meeting, where all of you will come back and bring
additional people, particularly parents who have children in the schools. Because
we wanted to set up a few things at this meeting, and one of them was to get
people to sign up to go to the school board meetings as a group so that you
could see what happens there, begin to feel comfortable and voicing your
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opinions. I know that was one thing that we had planned. The other thing, and
maybe that’s happening, was for us to have a book club where we would get
together and read and discuss some of the important books that are written today
about African American history and culture. So these are some of the action
things that we wanted to do. I don’t know if we actually announced that earlier.
D: We have not announced it.
Gwendolyn Zohorah Simmons: Okay. So anyway, we don’t want to hold you beyond
the time, but I am very encouraged by the turnout, and as you have heard from
Carol Thomas—whose idea this was to form this taskforce. So Carol, I’m so glad
you did that, obviously because the time is right. We want you to please come to
our meeting at the Wilhelmina Johnson Center, 6:00 PM on November 3rd is it,
where we will continue with our plans of action. Thank you, thank you for coming.
P-N: An announcement that was passed down from the school board: the
superintendent will have a meeting Tuesday, September 28th, this coming
Tuesday, at 5:00 PM, Westside Park. There will be a gathering there regarding
standardized tests and open Home Ec Rooms, and a night for the community. All
right? October—I’m sorry, October 28th. Okay. Then on Wednesday at 6:00 PM
at Buchholz they’ll show a movie, Rise to the Mark, it’s been shown in different
places. So if you can go there, please do. One other thing as she stands up;
yesterday, all day yesterday at the University of Florida there was a UNESCO-
TST conference, a very powerful conference that was coordinated by Sherry
Dupree. It was excellent. There were people from Lake City, people from all
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around. They had tours, they had lunch, they had sessions, and then here she is
today. So, can we give her a hand and mention too. [Applause].
D: She was a part of it yesterday, and I see Maxine, and maybe there’s two other
people here that supported us so we really appreciate it. We thank you for your
time and goodnight. Bye.
[End of recording]
Transcribed by: Amelia D’costa, Ryan Morini, Justin Dunnavant, Patrick Daglaris
Audit-edited by: Ryan Morini, August 7, 2018
Final edit by: Ryan Morini, February 25, 2019