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Tietoa taloudesta ja yhteiskunnasta simuloinnilla 25.2.2011 Aalto -yliopiston
perustieteiden korkeakoulu, Tietojenksittelytieteen laitos
ConnectIrmeli posted to #seminaarikannu 25.02.2011 (fi) 53 comments
ToolsConnectIrmeli said
ku | #seminaarikannu | Tietoa taloudesta ja yhteiskunnasta simuloinnil... http://www.qaiku.com/channels/show/seminaarikannu/view/3767434a4...
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53 comments Bottom
Faktat ja arvot ovat jatkuvassa vuoropuhelussa kaikessa toiminnassamme,
ptksenteossamme ja valinnoissamme
ConnectIrmeli commented on posted to #seminaarikannu 25.02.2011 (fi)
13.15 Timo Honkela: Sosiaalisen simuloinnin mahdollisuudet
rimmisen kompleksinen ilmi
vaikeasti kvantitatiiviseti tutkittavia / mitattavia ilmiit lhdetn mallintamaankvalitatiivisesti
ConnectIrmeli commented on posted to #seminaarikannu 25.02.2011 (fi)
Ohjelma: http://research.ics.tkk.fi/cog/simula...
@personaleu striimaa http://www.personaleu.eu/
ConnectIrmeli commented on posted to #seminaarikannu 25.02.2011 (fi)
Your chat is offline
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Emergenssi = kehkeytyminen -> miten esim. rahan olemassaolo kehkeytyy jossakin
yhteisss tai yhteiskuntamallissa. Nkkulma on uusi - aiemmin on lhdetty simuloimaan
olettaen, ett raha on havainnoitavassa lopputilanteessa olemassa.
Kuva: 13.30 Risto Linturi: Verkostoituneen talouden simulointi
ConnectIrmeli commented on posted to #seminaarikannu 25.02.2011 (fi)
Faktat vs. arvot -vuoropuhelu perustuu erilaisiin maailmankuviimme. -Vuoropuhelun
rakentamisen oppiminen eri maailmankuvia edustavien vlille on uusi prjmistaito.
ConnectIrmeli commented on posted to #seminaarikannu 25.02.2011 (fi)
Your chat is offline
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Mit tapahtuu, kun metsstj-kerilij alkaa varastoida vaihdantaa varten?
ConnectIrmeli commented on posted to #seminaarikannu 25.02.2011 (fi)
"Raha on sopimuksia ja viivstetyn vaihdannan kirjanpito (ellei se ole sidottu esim. kullan tai
hopean arvoon)."
ConnectIrmeli commented on posted to #seminaarikannu 25.02.2011 (fi)
Metsstj-kerilij hankki ja varastoi vain, mit tarvitsi
ConnectIrmeli commented on posted to #seminaarikannu 25.02.2011 (fi)
Your chat is offline
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Lpinkyvyys lis eriarvoisuutta - esimerkkin Madonnan musiikki (vrt. ansiot
tuntemattomana)
Yleiskommentissa nostetaan esille oppiminen - oppiminen varastoon, vaihdannasta koettava
hyty, "tutut", kehkeytyminen...
ConnectIrmeli commented on posted to #seminaarikannu 25.02.2011 (fi)
metsstj-kerilij -lauman koko on n. 150 ihmist - "tuttujen" mr
vaihdantaa syntyy, kun molemmat kokevat saavanta hyty
ConnectIrmeli commented on posted to #seminaarikannu 25.02.2011 (fi)
Your chat is offline
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14.00 Mikko Jskelinen: Maineen vaikutuksen simulointi
Risto Linturi: "Social Simulation of Networked Barter Economy with Emergent Money":
http://www.cis.hut.fi/research/cog/TK...
ConnectIrmeli commented on posted to #seminaarikannu 25.02.2011 (fi)
Verkostoitumisen vaikutus utiliteettihydyn jakautumiseenoppimisessa? Oppimisen avulla?
Oppimisesta huolimatta?
ConnectIrmeli commented on posted to #seminaarikannu 25.02.2011 (fi)
ConnectIrmeli commented on posted to #seminaarikannu 25.02.2011 (fi)
Your chat is offline
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ConnectIrmeli - glad to participate, and glad Kurt has his phone to stream the event.
International Conference on Artificial Neural Networks, June 14-17th, 2011, Espoo, Finland
http://www.cis.hut.fi/icann11/worksho...
ConnectIrmeli commented on posted to #seminaarikannu 25.02.2011 (en)
@paulswansen Thanks for your comments in bambuser :). There's some development work to
do to create a mashup of translation & commenting through different media.
ConnectIrmeli commented on posted to #seminaarikannu 25.02.2011 (en)
14.15 Mika Pantzar: Talouden ymmrtmisen haasteita - kommentti edellisiin, havaintoja
kehittjnuran varrelta
"maailmanmallit" 1970 -luvulla "artificial society" - alkoivat 1950 -luvulla smalleista ->Forresterin kaupunkimallit
1980 -luvun talouden mallinnuksessa ei hydynnetty edellisi; taloustieteilijt eivtarvostaneet, koska hintamekanismit puuttuivat
endogeeniset preferenssit - rakenteeksi muuttuva, rakenteita muuttava taloussubjekti,
Anthony Giddens"professorien aika ohi"
Rooman klubin kokous Finlandia -talossa 1986 - kompleksisuusteoriaa esiteltiin 1. kerransuomalaisille
talousevoluutioteoreettinen vitskirja 1990 -luvulla - ilman matematiikkaa, replikatiivinenmalli
rytmianalyysi, dataa kuluttajan ajankytn rytmeist
"kun tekee sosiologien kanssa tye, ei saa puhua malleista"
"Growing Artificial Societies" - Stanford 1990 -luvun puolivliss; Pantzar vertasi lastensaleikkej omaan "oman yhteiskunnan rakentamiseensa". Lapset kasvattivat kiinalaisiavirtuaalielimi - saako ne integroitua "omaan yhteiskuntaan". Onko addiktio peleihin aikuistenkuvitelmaa - onko lasten suhtautuminen enemmnkin ironiaa... Tulevaisuudessa kompetenssiei en ole sidoksissa ikn. Simulaatioleikkien kautta kehittyy tapa hahmottaa dynaamisiatiloja ja ...kehittyy reflektiivinen ja kontrolliva min?
Pantzar summaa, ett nyt on kulunut 15 vuotta ja molemmat lapset ovat kauppakorkekoulussaja tynn triviatietoa. Spatiaalisuus ei vaihtunut dynaamisuuteen mitenkn automaattisesti.Kyse on huomattavasti vahvemmasta kulttuurisesta ilmist / muutoksesta.
ConnectIrmeli commented on posted to #seminaarikannu 25.02.2011 (fi)
"Simuloinnissa parasta on ksitekuri." Kun ajatuksensa pakottaa sarjaan laatikoita,
kokonaisuus muuttuu robustimmaksi ja konkreettisia tutkimuskysymyksi kehkeytyy.
ksitteiden vliset suhteet mrittyvt simulaation avulla
simulointiprosessi tuottaa mritelmi, joista ei alussa oltu tietoisia - ajatuksellinenkehkeytyminen
prosessi tuottaa onnekasta kehkeytymist
simulaatiolla psee kehkey tyviin piirteisiin ksiksi - mitk ovat kehkeytymisenrakenteet
ConnectIrmeli commented on posted to #seminaarikannu 25.02.2011 (fi)
Your chat is offline
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Jatkoaskeleita
Mahdollistaminen (organisationaaliset ratkaisut)
Menetelmien kehittminen
Yhteiskunnallinen keskustelu ja vaikuttaminen
Paneelin aikana nousi puheeksi, voisiko kansanedustajat valita virtuaalisten pelitaitojenperusteella... Strateginen ajattelu paljastuu paljon selvemmin kuin mielipiteitn latelemalla.-Taito lukea toisen virtuaalista kyttytymist on opittavissa - liittyy suljetusta maailmastaavoimeen sirrtymiseen. Valitsisin itse niin paljon mieluummin ehdokkaani tarkastelemallahnen monivuotista kurinalaista sosiaalisten verkostojen rakentamistaan (syvyys, laveus jatervyys tasapainossa), kuin lukemalla mielipiteit jonossa. Viel nihin lhimpn tuleviinvaaleihin liittyen en ole pongannut yhtn ehdokasta, jonka kyttytymist ja kyttytymisen
Thanks for the link for Collaborative Consumption. I've book marked it.
paulswansen commented on posted to #seminaarikannu Westminster 25.02.2011 (en)
How is this Translation from Google.
"A multidisciplinary interaction is the future of core skills - attitudes and skills to be in place."
"Moniammatiilinen vuorovaikutus on tulevaisuuden perustytaito - asenteet ja taidot oltava
kohdallaan."
paulswansen commented on posted to #seminaarikannu Westminster 25.02.2011 (en)
Collaborative Consumption http://www.collaborativeconsumption.c...
ConnectIrmeli commented on posted to #seminaarikannu 25.02.2011 (en)
@paulswansen :)
ConnectIrmeli commented on posted to #seminaarikannu 25.02.2011 (fi)
@ConnectIrmeli I hadn't realized it was you sitting next to Kurt.
paulswansen commented on posted to #seminaarikannu Westminster 25.02.2011 (en)
"Moniammatiilinen vuorovaikutus on tulevaisuuden perustytaito - asenteet ja taidot oltava
kohdallaan."
Kauanko me odotetaan viel sit tulevaisuuttahuoh
ConnectIrmeli commented on posted to #seminaarikannu 25.02.2011 (en)
paulswansen commented on posted to #seminaarikannu Westminster 25.02.2011 (en)
Paneelista:
Mallin rakentaminen opettaa / muuttaa enemmn kuin mallin kyttminen.
Yritykset ovat kasa paperia. Yritys ei tee mitn - ihmiset tekevt. Mallinnetaan "klaaneja".
Varaston keksiminen on talouden kehittymisen merkittvimpi vaikuttajia.
Tutkimuksen ongelma on tn pivn se, ett kaikkia asioita ja ongelmia tutkitaanerikseen ja yksittisin ilmiin. Tutkittavan suhteet kaikkeen muuhun jvt huomioimatta.
Akateeemisessa hierarkiassa kysymykset valikoituvat, siiloutuvat ja asettuvat jo valmiiksi
hyvksyttyjen tutkimusaiheiden ymprille -> tnn esiteltyjen tutkimusten tarkoituksena onmuodostaa monitieteinen ryhm uudenlaisten kysymysten ja lhestymistavan ymprille.
Yleiskommentissa pyydetn omaishoitajan tyn simulointia - kuka tekisi?
ConnectIrmeli commented on posted to #seminaarikannu 25.02.2011 (fi)
Your chat is offline
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Valokuvia t ilaisuudesta Picasa Teams -albumissani
Mika Pantzar. Keskustelu.
personaleu commented on posted to #seminaarikannu Niittymaantie 13, Espoo 25.02.2011 (fi)
Mikko Jskelinen
personaleu commented on posted to #seminaarikannu Niittymaantie 13, Espoo 25.02.2011 (fi)
Risto Linturi (2)
personaleu commented on posted to #seminaarikannu Niittymaantie 13, Espoo 25.02.2011 (fi)
Risto Linturi (1)
personaleu commented on posted to #seminaarikannu Niittymaantie 13, Espoo 25.02.2011 (fi)
And now one more time: Live!Timo Honkela
personaleu commented on posted to #seminaarikannu Niittymaantie 13, Espoo 25.02.2011 (fi)
Pivn haastavimmaksi jatkoajatukseksi ji mieleen, ett lpinkyvyys lis eriarvoisuutta.
Tarvitaan totutusta poikkeavia luku- ja tulkintataitoja ja ymmrryst. Pienelt ja turvalliselta
lhiyksiklt saatava tuki on trke. Pienten ja globaalien verkostojen rakentamistaito on ehk
se isoin lhiopeteltava avaintaito motivointi, tukeminen ja auttaminen
ConnectIrmeli commented on posted to #seminaarikannu 25.02.2011 (fi)
@ConnectIrmeli Thanks. Yes, the international social interaction is a growth area that needs
more activity and attention. We can't continue to live in our local only fishbowl worlds.
paulswansen commented on posted to #seminaarikannu Westminster 25.02.2011 (en)
@paulswansen Re. the google translation - it may give the core context, yes ok. But still the
'engines' mix things up a bit. I was writing that multidisciplinary communication / interaction is
something we must put effort to in the future. The translator turned it the way that it's the
future of core skills... But this is great already though. The next versions will sure be much
more accurate.
@personaleu says that you are a model citizen for global social interaction. We've got a
mission to grow our tribe!
ConnectIrmeli commented on posted to #seminaarikannu 25.02.2011 (en)
systemaattista ja tietoista muuttumista pystyisi nin tarkastelemaan.
Toisen sosiaalinen lukeminen liittyy edell mainittuun tulevaisuuden osaamiseenvuorovaikuttaa moniammatillisesti.
ConnectIrmeli commented on posted to #seminaarikannu 25.02.2011 (fi)
Your chat is offline
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@connectIrmeli ja @personaleu ja kaikki. Kiitos eteln metialle hienosta raportoinnista, jota
voi seurata olematta paikan pll; epsymmetrisesti.
Olin tn Oulussa ja juttelimme hetken @AjatusVesa kanssa mm 5T:st. Pohjoisessa kaikki
on kaukana. Mittariin tuli neljsataa kilsaa.
https://picasaweb.google.com/personal...
personaleu commented on posted to #seminaarikannu Niittymaantie 13, Espoo 25.02.2011 (fi)
Your chat is offline
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@paulswansen During the streaming I can see written on the screen how many watchers are
online. And I can read your comments from there. But I can NOT write back to you because
I'm streaming. That's why @ConnectIrmeli ping toed you through Qaiku.
I've asked Nokia and Bambuser to tell if the new N7 is able to send Bambuser text feedback
during streaming.
personaleu commented on posted to #seminaarikannu Niittymaantie 13, Espoo 26.02.2011 (fi)
@personaleu It's great to see your equipment set up. Also thanks for sharing your time at
these events.
paulswansen commented on posted to #seminaarikannu Westminster 26.02.2011 (en)
@paulswansen Simulating all day what already happened - with this equipment.
personaleu commented on posted to #seminaarikannu Niittymaantie 13, Espoo 26.02.2011 (fi)
Tapaamiset terva- ja bittiporvareiden kanssa vaatii tehokkuutta, koska KOHTAAMISET
pakottavat pitkiin siirtymiin.
Tss suhteessa maailma ei ole muuttunut lainkaan elinikini kuluessa: puheet telluksen
supistumisesta ovat potaskaa.
Mutta somea kyttvt pohjoisen toimijat voivat sst aikaa, rahaa ja polttoaineita. Harva
yrittj tajuaa somekosmologiaa.
visualradio commented on posted to #seminaarikannu Oulu 25.02.2011 (fi)
Your chat is offline
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@paulswansen I remeber seeing a tv documentary about the dramatic changes in Detroit after
the huge layoffs in the car industry. It struck me that the Digital Villages "toolbox" could be
used to mobilize local forces at a community level to start working towards a new destiny. The
distress of the Detroit area is however so huge with all the problems of gangs and cultural
breakdown that it would be easier to start with something smaller: a town, city or a community.
@personaleu @visualradio @ConnectIrmeli I'm all for it. Let me know how I can assist.
paulswansen commented on posted to #seminaarikannu Westminster 26.02.2011 (en)
@personaleu @ConnectIrmeli @paulswansen Count on me. I work with a Digital Villages
#digitalvillages ecosystem that grows from the digital to buildings and services on a
community level. Hope to be able to "stream and tell" about the evolution during this spring.
visualradio commented on posted to #seminaarikannu Sotkamo 26.02.2011 (fi)
@paulswansen How about collecting together a global "network animal team", participating in
eachothers' broadcastings whenever possible. And joining same network places, eg. Qaiku,
Google Docs, Bambuser. LI, FB, Twitter, YouTube... and promising brand new places as
Quora, TouchGraph...
There are a lot of great international channels in Qaiku. And everyone can create new ones if
needed.
I think @ConnectIrmeli @visualradio and more Finnish inspirers are interested in such an
experiment, too.
personaleu commented on posted to #seminaarikannu Niittymaantie 13, Espoo 26.02.2011 (fi)
@personaleu Well being able to see the chat is a step forward. For the moment, yes, having aback channel like we did yesterday afternoon is a great help for the conversation. Given the
progress in technology, I'd bet we'll have much more interactive devices in the very near
future.
paulswansen commented on posted to #seminaarikannu Westminster 26.02.2011 (en)
...and that's how.
personaleu commented on posted to #seminaarikannu Niittymaantie 13, Espoo 26.02.2011 (fi)
Your chat is offline
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jiajia commented on posted to #seminaarikannu 4 days ago (zh)
The idea is to mobilize and motivate people to take responsibility of their own destiny, cultural,
economical, and social development. It's not a quick fix. Digital Villages helps to create
alternative evolutionary models for distance work, microjobs, small is beutiful, etc.
The first project 2000 - 2005 was very limited in scope. We've a group of companies working
with the concept since the end of the project and are now seeing that the digital infrastructure
and devices are ready for a new "open and learning society" where the networks are used to
improve productivity of the process and to add more people from "inside" and "outside" into
the development.
Changes don't happen over night. DV is not a product or not even a software package. It's a
mental toolbox, including ways for collaboration, learning, innovation, trade, distance work,community development, real estate, renovation of buildings and infrastructure, improving the
ecology and energy effectiviness of the village.
It might sound like "big and complex" but the elements have been tested for years in narrow
development segments and we'd now like to move from testing details to taking it to villages in
need for change and ready to step forward and say, "Let's do it!"
We've a core group that can easily be expanded with Qaiku- and Some-people in Finland. But
I know that there are intellectual resources available around the globe if and when we get this
thing moving.
It could be applied to change a distressed shopping center in need for a modernization, but I
think it's important to take a look at the whole community and build towards an ecocity model.
Digital networks are important in the process, ensuring that the evolution goes faster and that
multiple learning by doing processes are more effective.
We can source (not outsource) in specialists from a global pool of experts. The model
community can use the skills to help the neighboring communit to improve itself. A domino
theory can be applied to move from town to town.
visualradio commented on posted to #seminaarikannu Sotkamo 26.02.2011 (en)
Your chat is offline
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However, as with many products bought online, the product you receive on your doorstep
could vary from what was shown on the website. When ordering online, you need to be
prepared not to know exactly what you are getting (no matter how good the pictures may
seem) until it arrives. If you are not satisfied, it could be too late to return them, or they may
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The cons of working with a specialty store can be that your choices may be more limited. If
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hours, so it can be hard for working brides and grooms to find time to go in and order the
invitations, pick up, make changes, etc. For the budget-conscious couple, it can be easier and
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invitation. This is your first chance to give guests a sneak peek of the theme and details of
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