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WadeFrazier:AHealedPlanet,andtheroleofFreeEnergyWithDrBrianO'LearyMarch2009Clickherefortheaudiointerview

StartofinterviewBillRyan(BR):ThisisBillRyanandKerryCassidyfromProjectCamelot.It’sFridaythe27thofMarch,2009,differenttimezonesindifferentpartsoftheworld.I’minEurope.KerryisinLosAngeles.BrianisinEcuador.Wade,you’reinSeattle?Isthatright?WadeFrazier(WF):Yes.BR:We’redelighted,Wade,tobetalkingwithyou.WadeFrazier,likeBrianO’Leary,whowehadthegreatpleasureofmeetingandtalkingwithatlengthinEcuadorbackinJanuary,isaveteranfree-energyactivist.



BrianO’Learywasintheastronautprogram,andishimselfaveteranfree-energyactivist.He’sdonealottoinvestigatephenomenaonthefringesofmainstreamscience,isaveryaccomplishedspeaker,hasbeeneverywhereandknowseveryone,andwe'reveryproudtofeaturehimasoneoftheWitnessesonoursite.ButnotsomanypeoplewillhaveheardofWadeFrazier.Hiswebsite,whichiscalledahealedplanet.net,has1,200pages.ItisencyclopedicinitsscopeandittellsWade’sstoryofanon-stoprunningskirmishwiththewholeissueoffreeenergy.Andyou'retakingtoheartthis,asacause,whichisverymuchwhatBrianO’Learyhasdone.Somepeoplethinkthatfreeenergyisallaboutaninventorsittinginagarageorabasementwithabunchofelectronicsandmagnets,andgettingalittlemachinetoworkthatwilllightupalightbulbandeveryonethinks:GeeWhiz!Thisisaneatlittledevicehere.It’sanalternativetohavingawindmillinmygarden.Andthisisveryfarfromthepoint,becausefreeenergyisatthehubofsomanyissuesthatareconnectedwithhowourplanetisrunandcontrolled,thatitreallyisoneoftheverycentralplacestostart.

Wade,andwhathehastosayaboutfreeenergy,needstobeheard.

It’savery,veryimportantstory.And,whatI’mlookingforwardtohereinthenexthourorsoisaconversationprimarilywithWadeandBrianO’Leary,totalkaboutwhyfreeenergyissomethingthatweshouldcareabout,whyitshouldbepoliticized,whyitaffectseverycornerofourlives.Andforthosepeoplewhohaveventuredintothisareawithpracticalintentions,it’sprovedtobequiteadangerouspathforthemtotreadbecausetheycanreallyinterferewiththeagendasofothers.ThisisreallywhatIwouldliketotalkabout.Itisn’tgoingtobeatechnicalconversation.It’sgoingtobeaconversationabouttheparadigmshiftthat’snecessaryforfreeenergytobeusheredintothisworldinthe21stcentury.AndIwonder,Wade,whatitisaboutfreeenergythathasmadethis

virtuallyyourlifemission?Whyisitsoimportant?Whyhaveyoudevotedsomuchofyourtimeandyoursoultothiscause?WF:Thankyou,Bill.Asyouknow,itwasaverylongstorythatbeganwhenIwasachild.I’moverfiftynow,butmyjourneyinthealternativeenergyareabeganwhenIwasateenager.Iwasgroomedtobeascientistfromaveryyoungage.AndwhenIwassixteenyearsold,oneofmyprofessionalmentorshadinventedanenginewhichwasconsideredthebestforpoweringanautomobile.ItcreatedquitealotofinterestfromthefederalgovernmentintheUnitedStates.Infact,theyspentmillionsofdollarsdevelopingandanalyzingit.Butalsoitneverwentanywhere.And,infact,theinventorwastold

thatifhethoughthisenginewasgoingtomaketheinternalcombustionengineobsolete,heshouldstartmakinghisfuneralplans.Andsothiswasmyintroductiontothiswholearea,backin1974.BR:Thatwaswhenyouwerestillateenager,Wade.Isthatright?WF:Yes.Iwassixteenyearsold,andatthattimeIhadthedreamofchangingtheenergyparadigminthisworld.AtagesixteenIhadnoideawhatIcoulddoaboutit,butitwasadreamthatIhad.AndsothenIcontinuedmysciencestudies.Andso,Ithinkveryimportantly...Infact,mostofthepeoplethat



I’mawareofinthisfield,wegenerallyhavesomekindofmysticalorientationbecausewe’vehadsomeexperiencesthatopenedourparadigmtobeyondthe“scientistic”paradigm,andsawabroaderpicture.Fellowtravelersinthisfield,Ithinkmostofthemwouldsay,thatthatwasprobablykey.Anyway,so...Ithenwenttocollegeandhadsomestrangeexperiencesthatchangedmystudiesfromchemistrytoaccounting.ThenIgotoutofschoolandwenttoworkinLosAngelesanddidmyCPAthing.Afterseveralyearsofkindofbeingfrustratedinthecorporateworld,Ihadanotherverystrangesetofevents,cappedwithaparanormalexperience,thatledmedirectlyintoacompanyuphereinSeattle.Thiswas1986.TheyweremarketingenergyconservationequipmenthereinSeattle.Basicallyit’saheatingsystemthatwouldsave80%ofyourheatingcosts.IjoinedthecompanyasitwasactuallybeingbludgeonedoutofexistencebytheenergyinterestsuphereintheNorthwest.Becauseofthatchildhooddreamandmybackground,eventhoughthecompanywasdestroyed,thefoundercouldn’tgetridofme.SoIendedupfollowinghimacrossthecountrytoBoston,andthenthat’swhenwestartedpursuingfreeenergy,ifyouwill.ThetechnologythatwewerepursuingwasactuallymarryingtheheatpumpthatDennisLee,theguyinSeattle,wasmarketing,withtheenginethatmyoldmentordeveloped.[laughs]Wewereactuallytrying

tomarrythosetogether.ThenweendedupinVentura,California,whichiswhereIwasraised,andthenstartedmakingalotofnoise.Imean,mypartner,Dennis--he’stheIndianaJonesofalternativeenergy.He’sbeenbehindbars,survivedmurderattempts.CurrentlytheFederalTradeCommissionistryingtoshuthimdown.Anyway,inVenturathen,wereallygottheattentionofthepeoplewhoIwillsaymanagetheenergyparadigmonthisplanet.WereceivedanofferinBostonandthenwereceivedanotheroneinCalifornia.Mypartnerwasofferedabilliondollarstofolduptheoperationandgoaway.TheofferwasmadebyaCIAmanwhosaidherepresentedEuropeaninterests.

Amonthaftermypartnerdeclinedtheiroffer,hefoundhimselfinjailwithamillion-dollarbail.Themanwhoarrestedhimgotpromotedtobeinchargeofthejail,acoupleweekslater,andgotanaward,andallthesekindsofthings.Soanyway,itwasquitearadicalizingexperienceformebecausetheyeventuallytooktheirmasksoffinVenturatomeandadmittedtomyfacethattheirjobwastotakeusout.Sotheydidtheirbest,anditwasactuallyaprettygoodjob.Theywreckedmany,manylives.IendedupleavingVenturabackin1990afteracoupleofusessentiallysprungDennisfromjail.Heendeduponlyspendingtwoyearsbehindbars.AndthenIspentthenexttwelveyearstryingto

figureoutwhatIhadjustlivedthroughandrealizedthatprobablyeverythingIthoughtIknewwasprobablynottrue.Andsothen,theresultofthosetwelveyearsofresearch...Idon’tknow,Iprobablyreadaquarter-millionpagesofmaterialorsomethinglikethat,andagain,turneditintothewebsitethatIhavetoday.Andyes,Bill,it’sathingthattheenergysituation...Humanityridesontopofit.Infact,humanityalwayshas.LifeonEarth,thehumanjourney,it’sall...theenergysituationisattherootofallthat.



Andsoanenergyscarcityhasdefinedthehumanjourney.EventhoughIliveintherichest,mostpowerfulnationinhistoryandtheaverageAmericanconsumeseightytimesthecaloriesthatgointotheirdiets,we’restillascarcity-basedsociety.TheincreasinglevelofenergyusethattheWesthasenjoyedhasdefinitelytransformedoursocietyinmanyways.Ittookalotofoldsocialstructuresandmadethemobsolete.Slaverybeganwithearlycivilizationandendedwithearlyindustrialization.Theliberationofwomen...allthesethings.There’sanessentiallyeconomicbasisthatunderliesthat,whichispoweredbyenergy.Andwhatwefoundwasthatthere’speoplewhomanagetheenergysituationonaglobalbasis.Itcanbedebatedwhotheyare,whattheirmotivesare.Couldtheyjustbeprotectingtheirmarket?Itendtobelievethattheyaremaintainingtheirglobalpowerstructure.That’smyconclusion.Andagain,I’verunintofellowtravelerssincethen,Brianamongthem,who...we’vegenerallycometoaboutthesamevicinityofunderstandingtheproblem,theissues,andtheopportunitiesandwhat’spossible.SoI’maware,andIthinkBrianis,andmostofusareawarethatthereareenergytechnologies.Youknow,theguytinkeringaroundinhisgarage,ifheeverreallycomesupwithsomething,thenhedoes

attracttheattentionoftheglobalcontrollers,I’llcallthem.Andinfact,peoplewhopoketheirnoseintothisprettydeeply...Again,it’sriskybusiness.There’salotofpeoplewhohavehadtheirliveswrecked,orthey’redead,orthey’resilencedsomehow.Butsomepeople,likeStevenGreerwho’sawarrior--orDennis--heendedupbangingonthefrontdooroftheWhiteHouseandallthiskindofstuff.AndeventuallyGreerinteractedwithatleastafactionofthisglobalcontrolorganization.Theyadmittedthatthey’vepaidonehundredbilliondollarsin“quietmoney”overthelastcouplegenerationstoputthelidon“disruptivetechnologies”.AndIwouldsaythatfreeenergyisprobablyatthetopofthatlist,althoughmyunderstandingis,frompeopleveryclosetomewho’ve

witnessedsomeofthesethings,thatantigravity...thepeoplethatyouinterviewonyourProjectCamelotsite.AlotofthethingsthatIhearthemsayarethingsthatI’vealsohadexperienceof.Andso,wekindofcometothesamegeneralvicinity.Butmymessage,andIthinkBrian’s...essentiallythere’sabigpicturetoseehere,andtheenergysituationisreallythekeystoneofthething.And,asfaraswhyfreeenergyandwhatitcanbringaboutseemstobesounimaginableinoursocieties.Idon’tknowhowconspiratorialthat’sbeen,becauseeventually,afterallmyyearsofstudyandexperience,etcetera,andbeingintroducedtoBuckyFuller’swork,Icametorealizewhattheseideologieshavethatkeepusfromseeing

thebigpicture.Theyallarescarcity-basedandsotheyallhaveascarcity-basedcomponenttothem.Andinfacttheyalsohaveacomponentwhere,ifyougiveyourallegiancetothiscertainideology,thenitfeedsyou.Andsoyou’reveryreluctanttogiveupyourbeliefsystem.Sofreeenergy,etcetera...therecanbeanabundance-basedfoundationofoursociety,which...thehumanjourney’sneverseenthat.Soit’ssomethingthatreally...it’sdifficulttowrapyourheadaround.Ittakesalongtimetodothat.



AndwhatIfoundisyouhavetoreallylayasideallyourconditioningofyourscarcity-basedkindsofideologieslikecapitalism,ornationalism,oralotofthescientism,therationalist/materialistparadigm.Allthesethingsareverysubtlyscarcity-based.Somearelesssubtlethanothers,butintheendthat’swhattheyhaveallincommon.Andso,whatfreeenergyendsupdoingisyoucanactuallyreplacethatscarcityassumptionwithanabundanceassumption.It’sashiftthatwouldbe...we’veneverseenitbefore.Imean,infactalloftheepochalso-calledrevolutionsofthehumanjourney--thesuper-predatorrevolution,orthedomesticationrevolution,ortheindustrializationrevolution--essentiallyhumanitywasabletotapintoanotherenergysourceandcontrolabunchmoreenergyinawaythatwasabletofreeuppeoplebeyondsurvival.IliveintheUnitedStatesandit’sbeenaprettycomfortableexistencetobeanAmerican,eventhoughmostAmericanstodayarewonderingifthey’regoingtolosetheirjobnextweek.BR:Walkingsomeofourlistenersthroughthisworldthatyoudescribeasathoughtexperiment...Supposingtherewasalittleblackboxineveryhouseandineverytruck,orineveryplanethere’saslightlylargerblackbox,andeverypowerstationhasareallybig

blackbox.Andthisblackboxjustgaveasmuchoutputasoneneededatzerocostonceyou’veactuallygotthisthingthere.Howdoestheworldchange?I’dlovetoaskBrian’sview.BrianO’Leary(B’OL):Hi.Helloeverybody.It’sgoodtobetalkingwithyouagain,Bill,andtohearyou’rereadingWade,becausecertainlybothWadeandIhavehadparallelpathwaysofdiscovery,ofsteppingoutsideoftheboxofmainstreamthinking.It’stakenquiteawhile,anditcanbeaverypainfulprocess.It’saprocessthatthegeneralpublicnowis,Ithink,beginningtoawakento.Inanswertoyourquestion,Bill,imagineaworldwherewehavethese,say,little10-kilowattpower-packsthatyoucanputinyourcircuit-breakerboxorunderthehoodofyourcar.Theworldwould

changeovernight.Let’ssaywemadetwoorthreebillionofthese...Now,I’mnotsayingthatInecessarilyadvocatedoingthisunderthesystemwenowhave.Andthat,ofcourse,thenbegsthequestionofpoliticalandeconomiccontrol,andsomeofthereasonswhythistechnologyhasbeensosuppressed.Andbelieveme,WadeandIhavepersonallyhadmany,manyexperiencesaroundthatsinceourownawarenessbecamemorepronounced.SowhatIseehappeningisthatthisnewworld--aslongasthegovernmentsoftheworldandthecorporationsoftheworldchangesystemically--andthat’sbeenmyplea...Gosh,onmywebsiteIjustpostedalettertoObama.Itwasanopenappeal,basically,topleaseaddressthesystemicchangesweneedsothatwecanusherinsomeofthesenewtechnologiesinaverybenign

way,thatwecandothingsdifferently,thatwedon’twantDickCheneyrunningthisone,too.NordowewantthecurrentUSgovernment,suchasitis,toberunningthisone.Obviouslythesetechnologiesareabigthreattovestedinterests,whetheryou’reascientist...Andweknowthatthewholehistoryofscienceisjustriddledwithdenialofnewdevelopments,whetheritwasduringtheCopernicanrevolution,thetimeofKeppler,Galileo.TheWrightbrothers--theirinitialflight,thereporterthatreporteditwasfarfromitspositionandScientificAmericanaboutayearlaterrananeditorial,ascathingeditorial,denyingthat



aviationeverexisted-becauseitwasn’treported!Historicallywecanlookatthestructureofscientificrevolutions--ThomasKuhn’sbook--andIknowWadeisacutelyawareofthis.We’vebothbeenstudyingthiskindofthingaboutparadigmshiftsmanytimes,andit’snowhappeningonceagaininspades.AndasWadepointsout,theenergypictureinourtimeisprobablymoreimportantthananythingelse.Andsowehavetokindofbreakthisdownandlookatthisfromasociologist’spointofviewas:Who’sdoingthesuppressingandwhyaretheydoingthesuppressing?Andwhatyoufindwhenyoureallylookatthesethings--becauseWadeandIhavealreadyseenforourselvesnumerousdemonstrationsofproof-of-conceptofthenewenergytechnologies--whyaretheysoviolentlysuppressed?Soyouhavethisunwittingallianceamongscientists,corporatists,governments.Evenprogressives-peoplewhootherwisemightwanttoembracethispossibility-eventheprogressivesarenotlookingatthesethings,andthat,ofcourse,isthesaddestpart.Andso,inourownwayWadeandIkindofinparalleldiscoveredthatthereisawholeprocess.It’sanemotionalprocess.It’sasociologicalone,wherepeoplewhoaretryingtoprotecttheirowninterestsseemtodigtheirheelsinevenmorethantheyotherwisewouldhave,inordertoprotecttheircareersortheirvested

interests.Sothescientists...mostofthemainstreamscientificcommunity,justlikeintheearlydaysofaviation,aredenyingthepossibilityoffreeenergyandwillgooutoftheirwaytodebunkit.Andtherecertainlyhavebeenmany,manyexamplesofthat.Butit’snotonlythescientists.It’sthegovernmentitself.It’stheprogressives.It’s...Thepeoplethatcallthemselvesenvironmentalistsareobviouslynotradicalenough.They’rethinkingofthingslikesolarenergyandwindenergy.But,youknow,oneofthedisappointmentsIcameto,backinthe’70swhenIwasworkingforMorrisUdall...Hewasacongressmanwhowasrunningforpresident,andhewantedtodeveloprenewableclean

energy,andinthosedaysmyonlyhorizonofawarenesswassolar,wind,theso-calledtraditionalrenewables.Butthenalaterstudy,ifyoulookatthecostandbenefits,youfindthatsolarandwindismaterials-intensive;it’sland-intensive;it’scapital-intensive.We’retalkingabouttensoftrillionsofdollarstoinvestinawholenewsystemofsolarorwindtoprovidetheworldwithitspower,andthat’sjustnotgoingtofly,especiallyintoday’seconomicclimate.Weneedtobesmarteraboutthis.Weneedtolookintothe21stcentury,towardsthosetechnologiesthatwilltrulygiveusacleanenergysociety.Andmyowndiscovery...Duringthe1980sand’90sItraveledtheworld

andvisitedsomeofthebestandbrightestinventorsandwrotesomebooksaboutthis.AndIfinallycametomyAh-ha!thatindeedthiscouldchangetheworldifitwereimplementedproperly.SothiswholenewenergyactivismthatWadeandIshareisagreatenthusiasm,butthere’salsothisundercurrentofsadnessabouthowourplanet,andalmostallofnature,isbeingdestroyedbyacanceroushumanitythatisnotawakeningtothesepossibilities,whichcouldthenbuyusalittletimewhilewereallytrytoreformourcultureanddothesystemicchangesthatwereallyneedtodo.



BR:Brian,thankyou.That’sawonderfullyarticulatepresentationoftheproblemandpresentationofthechallenge.I’dliketoaskWadeifyoucouldtellthesecond-handstoryofthisfreeenergypioneer,whosecredibilityyoufeelistotal,whoyousaidwasshownby“ThePowersThatBe”whattechnologytheyactuallyhave.Anditwasexplainedtohimwhythey’rekeepingthissecret.Thisisastorythatpeopleneedtohear.WF:Yes.DuringmyyearsIcameincontactwithquiteaninterestinggroupofpeople.Andanyway,oneofmyverycloseassociates,yes,wasshown--inaveryremotesetting--someofthetechnologiesthatexisttodayonEarth:antigravity,freeenergy.Thesetechnologiesexist,youknow.Andforme,IputmyjigsawpuzzletogetherofthepictureatleastthatIseefromallofthis.Andthepeoplewhohavereallybeenoutthere--Imean,it’snotforthetimid--andthepeoplewhohavesurvivedanywaybeingoutthereandcomebacktotellwhatthey’veexperienced...AndthepicturethatIseeisthatthepeoplewhoarecallingtheshotsontheplanetlikecallingtheshotsontheplanet,andtheydon’twanttogivethatup.Energyindependencewouldtrulymakeeverybodyindependent.Andso,wearesoenergydependent.Wearesodependentonotherpeopleproviding

usourenergy.Ifweactuallyhadourownsourceofit,theverycentralized,verysteeplyhierarchicalpolitical-economic-socialsystemswehaveintheworldwouldbecomeobsolete.Forinstance,thisfriendofminewhohadthisdemonstration...thepeoplewhoarecurrentlyaddictedtothepowerthattheyhaveovertheplanet,theywilldowhateverittakestomaintainit.Andthetechnologiestheyhavearewaybeyondwhatisonthemarkettoday.Imean,it’sStarTrekkindofstuff.BR:Wade,didyourfriendtellyouwhatitwasexactlythathewasshown?Andwashegivenanexplanationforwhyhewasbeingshownthis?AndI’massuminghemusthavebeengivenanexplanationwhythis

technologywasbeingwithheldandnotbeingreleased.Kerry,itmightbebetter,tohelpWade,ifyoucouldtaketheleadonthis,becauseWadeishavingtroubleunderstandingmygentleman’saccenthere.KerryCassidy(KC):[laughs]Iknow.That’sOK.I’msorryaboutthat.Wade,whathewantstoknow,andI’dlovetoknowmyself,whatexactlywasthetechnologythatyourfriendwasshown?WF:Atleastfreeenergy,andatleastantigravity.OK?Thoseweretwoofthetechnologiesthatweredefinitelyshownoff.OK?AndIalmostdidn’twanttoknowawholelotmorebecausetheknowledgecanbeconsidereddangeroustohave.Buttherewasahostofexotictechnologiesthatweredemonstrated,freeenergyandantigravity

probablymostprominently.KC:Yousaythattechnologywasdemonstrated.Inotherwords,didtheyseecraft,forexample?WF:Thiswasinanundergroundsetting,sotheydefinitelydidn’twanttoflyanythingaround,oratleasttheantigravitydemonstrationwasn’tsomethinglikeamothership.Itwasprettysmall.Butanyway,I’msayingthesetechnologiesweredemonstrated.Andagain,thepeoplewhodemonstratedthemadmittedthattheydonothave



thefreedomtoessentiallycomeabove-boardandbringthisstufftotheworld.Andtheyalso,though,saidthattheywouldliketobringitout,butit’snotsafe.KC:OK.Whywasyourfriendshownthis?Whyhim?WF:Oh,whywasmyfriend...?OK.So,myfr...Boy!ThisiswhereIhavetobekindofcareful.ThecirclesIrunaroundin--Ihaverunaroundin;I’mkindofsemi-retiredfromthisstuff--butagain,theygobangingonthefrontdooroftheWhiteHouse,gobangingonthefrontdoorofthePentagon,gobangingonthefrontdoorofsomecorporations.Sometimesyougettomeetthewizard.Thispersonwashighprofileatthetime.Theywerebangingonthedoors.Theywerestirringthingsupandtheygotashow.KC:OK.Canyoutelluswhataspectof,ordoyouknow,whatpartofthemilitarywasinvolvedinshowingthisstuff?WF:Thispersondoesnotevenknowwhoitwaswhoshowedittohim.KC:Fascinating.OK.Veryinteresting.WF:Thiswasavery,verysecureoperation.Sosecure...KC:Andwherewastheundergroundbaselocated?Canyousaythestate?WF:Iamnotsure.IbelieveitwasintheUnitedStates.Thispersondoesnotknowwhere.Theyweretakenthereblindfolded.Andtheyget

totaketheblindfoldoff,andthey’reundergroundsomeplace,andthere’sthesepeopledemonstratingsomething.Andthey’retalkingtoyouandtheyknowwhoyouare.Andthey’resaying:Hey,we'vegotsomethingstoshowyou.Itwasthatkindofsetting.KC:OK.WF:Untilthispersonwantstotalkpubliclyaboutit,Iamnotgoingtorevealtoomuchinformationaboutit.Stuffthatpeoplehavedisclosedpublicly,thenIwill.So,again,Dennisgotabillion-dollaroffer.WhenIwaswithDennis,wehadsomeveryinterestinginteractionswithsomeofthesegroups.Andagain,asIrecall,Billcallsthemwhite-hatsandblack-hats.And

wehadencounterswithbothgroups.OK?Andwewouldgetperiodicallycontactedbythewhite-hatgroup.Itwasverycryptic.Allofasuddenyou’reworkingintheofficelateonenightandyougetatelephonecall.Andit’slike:"Keepupthegoodwork."Thiskindofthing.Andsoyou’rekindofwondering:"Whatwasthatallabout?"[laughs]Soanyway,allIknowisthatduringmydayswithDennis,wewereextremelyhighprofile.AndinfactIhavewritten,becauseit’salittlesafertodiscloseitnow,butwhenIwaswithhimin’96,’97weweresubjectedtoanextremelyelaboratestingoperationthatwastryingtoentrapus.Andagain,itwaspeoplewhosaidtheyweregoing

togiveusabunchofmoneytomakethingshappen.AboutayearlaterIheardTomBeardentalkingaboutaverysimilarsituation,sayinghow:"Yes,theysaythey’regoingtocomeandgiveyouallthismoney,butit’sdirtymoney,andassoonasyousignforthemoneytheywhiskyouofftoprison."Anditwasn’tuntil...actuallyitwaslastfallthatIstartedwritingaboutthefinancialmeltdownandmyinteractionswithsomeoftheseplayersandIcametoslowlyrealizethatwewerebeingsetup,andinfactinalmostthesamekindofoperationthatBeardendescribed.



Itwasextremelyelaborate,withpenthousesinManhattanandsovereignnationsbeinginvolved.Itwasveryelaborate.AndIreallydon’tknow.Whatwasrealandwhatwasfabricated?Idon’tknow.Howmanypeopleweredupedandhowmanywereinonit?I’llprobablyneverknow.ButIdoknowthatwewerebeingsetup,whoeverallthesepeopleare.Again,theFederalTradeCommissionrightnowistryingtoshutdownDennis.Ihaven’tbeeninvolvedwithDennissincethe’90s,butthey’retryingtoshuthimdownrightnow.AndwhentheyclobberedusinVentura,whentheyclobberedhiminWashington,ortheywereabouttoclobberusinBoston,it’susuallythegovernmentthat’swieldingthepublicclub.Butthey’rejusttakingorders.Imean,they’renottheguysreallyinchargeoftheoperation.Andthat’swhenDennisgotthebillion-dollaroffertofolduphistentsandgoaway,thatwasnotdelivered...Ohyes,CIArepresentingEuropeaninterests,oratleastthat’swhattheysaid.Sothat’s...There’syourprivate/government,quasi-kindofthinggoingon.Andthen,again,thegovernmentcomesandshutsyoudown.Thestingoperationthatwewerebeingsubjectedto,atthesametimethatIgetaletterfromourphonecompanythattheJusticeDepartment

hadsubpoenaedourphonerecordsandgaggedthemforsixmonthsfromnotifyingusthattheyhad,etcetera.You’rekindofwonderingwhoallisinvolved,andhowmanydifferentwaysthey’recomingatyou.AndIsawthatinSeattlein’86.IsawthatinVentura.WeweresubjecttokindofawholenewlevelofthegamewhenIwaswithDennisbackin’96,’97.Soanyway,again...KC:Whydoyouthinkthatwas,though?Wasitbecauseyouguysweresoclose?WF:Whythatwegottheattentionthatwedid?KC:Yes.WF:Oh,becausemypartner,he...Again,whenImethimin’86,hewassellingequipment.Hewasactuallymakinganeconomicimpactinthemarketplace.Andagain,thecloseryougettothemarket,the

greatertheresistanceisgoingtobe.So,yes,aguytinkeringinhisgarage,theyjust...theyleavehim...They’llkeeptabsonhim,butthey’regoingtoprettymuchleavehimaloneunlesshereallycomesupwithsomething.Thenhe’llgetsomeattention.Butwehadanationaleffortgoingon.Hesoldquiteafewmillionsofdollarsofhisheatpump.AndhewastryingtocarpetPugetSoundwiththeseheatpumpswhichwas...Onecalculationwasthelocalelectriccompanywasgoingtolosesomethingliketwentybilliondollarsinrevenuesoverthenexttwentyyears.

KC:Wade,whenyousaythewhite-hatsweretryingtoshowyouthistechnologyandtheywouldcallyouuplateatnightandencourageyou,doyouknowanythingmoreaboutwhothewhite-hatswere?Anddidyourfriendactuallyeverhaveanykindofmeetingswiththosewhite-hats?Weretheymilitary?WF:I’llsaythis.Idescribedtheundergroundsituation,andwewouldgetcalled,andthenweactuallydidgetthesuavefaçadeoftheblack-hats,offeringusabilliondollars,andthenI’msuretheywerebehindwhathappenedtousinVentura.Idolisten.Andagain,for



instance,StevenGreerhasinteractedquiteabitinthesearenas,andthepicturethathehasdevelopedofwhathe’sseen,Iprettymuchthinkhe’sright.Andso,infactwhentheymentionedthehundredbilliondollarsin“quietmoney”,Iwasgoing:"Well,thatmakesperfectsense."BecausejustinmyjourneyI’verunintoquiteafewinventorswhohadbeenboughtout,threatened,killed,thiskindofthing.AndwhenIheardthat,ahundredbilliondollarsinquietmoney,itmadeperfectsense.

Brian’sfriend,JohnRappoport,hesaidthere’seighteconomiccartelsontheplanetthatkindofdivvieduptheworldeconomy.Iwon’tdenythat,becauseI’veseensimilaractivitiestakingplaceinmedicine,media,thesekindsofthings.KC:Wade,canyoutalkaboutthewhite-hats,though?WF:Iwilltalkaboutthewhite-hats.So,it’sinteresting.IhaveonepersonIencounteredoncewhowasabducted,drugged,andputintoaninsaneasylum.Andwhentheywereinthisasylum--anditwasawaytokeephimquiet--therewerekindofwhite-hatpeopleintheasylumwhowerekindoflookingoutforhim.I’msureyouguyshaveencounteredthisinsomeofthethingsI’vereadonyoursite,wherethiskindofthinggoeson.Sotherearethesekindsofsurreptitiouswhite-hatpeople.

AndIdon’tknowexactlyhowthatstructureoperates,butmyunderstandingisthatthe,let’ssaytwo-tothree-hundredpeoplewhoarekindofthepolicy-makersfortheworldeconomy...Iwouldsaythatthirtyyearsagoitwasaverysmallfractionofthem,likefivepercent,ormaybejustafewhereandthere,whowerekindofnotreallysuretheylikedtheprogramanylonger.SeveralyearsagoIheardGreersaythatit’salmost50/50now,towheretheso-calledwhite-hats...Idon’tknowhowwhitethosehatsarebutIbelievethatthere’sadefinitefractureinthatstructure,towherealotofthemrealizethatwe’regoingtoturntheEarthintoacinderonthepathwe’regoing.Andso,theydon’tlikethatprogram.Theyhavegrandchildrenandthiskindofthing.AndsoIthinktherehasbeenafracturinghappenbecausethegame’s

gettingprettyscaryforthemandsotheydon’twantit.SoIdon’tknowhowwhitethosehatsare.ButIbelievethatwhatmyfriendwasshownintheundergroundsettingwassomefactionofthatdisenchantedhalf.Thatismyperception.KC:SoyoubelievethatthesepeoplebasicallytookcareofyouroperationinVentura.Theycloseditdown,inessence.Right?WF:Ohyes.Infact,whentheyraidedusIwastwenty-nine,youngandnaïve,andthirteenarmeddeputiescomeinandkickusoutofthebuildings.Andthentheyransackourchiefresearcher’soffice,stripitouttothewalls,andthendidn’tstarttheso-called“officialsearch”forseveralhourslater,saidtheyneverwereintheroom...

excepttheresearcherandoneofourmachinists,whowasoutbehindthebuilding,wereabletoactuallyseeintothebuildingandwatchthemransackingtheoffice.Sothiswaswhentheyfirstraidedus.Soatthatmomentwerealizedthatthishadnothingtodowithtryingtoseeifwe’recommittingcrimesornot.Imean,theywerecommittingthecrimesrightoffthebat.Anyway,atthatmomentwerealizedthat...Imean,Irealizedthatdefinitelythishadnothingtodowithtryingtoprotectthepublicoranythinglikethat.Andthen,formethough,itwasathingof...Itwasn’tuntilIwason



thewitnessstand--andDenniswasinlegironsandwithamillion-dollarbail--andtheprosecutionisactuallymakingfacesatmeasI’monthewitnessstand.Imean,inkindofaStalinistshow-trialatmosphere.InfacttheguymakingfacesatmewastheguywhowasinchargeofthejailthatDenniswasin.Andthenatthatmoment,thatwasessentiallymyradicalizingmoment,whereatwelve-yearjourneyofgradualdisillusionment,etcetera,sortofcametoaheadformeandIkindof:"Ah-ha!"ThatwasmybigAh-ha!moment,sittingonthewitnessstandwherethey’remakingfacesatmeasI’mtestifying.KC:Wade,I’dliketogoovertoBrian...whatyoucansayabouthowtheworldneedstochangeinordertoacceptfreeenergyandwhetheryouthinkthatthere’sactuallyanyhopeatthemomentforthathappening?BO’L:Verygoodquestion,Kerry,andIwishIcouldansweritsimply,becausewhoknowswhatThePowersThatBearedoinginquietsessionrightnow.WhatIcansayisthattheconceptsarethere.There’saveryclearpossibilitywecandevelopthesethings,andtherearemanyofuswho’vebeenadvocatingitforalongtime.Itseemslikethepoliticalclimatehasn’treallychanged.Ontheotherhand,thepublicisgettingreallypissedoffatwhat’s

happening.Certainlytheeconomicdemisewe’reallgoingthroughrightnowisperhapsametaphororsymbol,anarchetype,forwhatcouldhappenintheenergyarea,thateventheprotestors--theBillMcKibbensoftheworldortheso-calledfreethinkersaboutPeakOilorglobalwarming,whetherit’sJamesHansenorRichardHeinbergoralloftheseotherpeoplewhohaveadvocatedradicalchange--stilldonotembracethepossibilityoffreeenergy.Soeventhoughsomeofus,WadeandIandanumberofothers,havebeenattemptingtoeducatesomeofthesemorevisibleprogressivepeopleaboutthepossibilityoffreeenergy...andI’veevenhadconversationswithCongressmanDennisKucinichaboutitandhedidcarefullylisten.Hedidacknowledgeit.Hedidwanttointroducelegislationtosupporttheresearchanddevelopmentonitandmake

thispubliclymorevisible.Eventhoughallofthesethingshavebeenacknowledgedandcommunicated,thefactremainsthattheconsensusamongtheso-calledprogressivesisstillacompletedenialaboutthepossibilityoffreeenergy.Andthat,tome,wasthemostastoundingdiscoveryImadethat--havingdonealmosttwodecadesagomyworldtravelstofindoutformyselfasascientistthatindeedtheseconceptsareveryreal;therearemany,manydifferentparalleltechnologies,anyone,orsomeofwhichcoulddothetrick--butwheneveritcomestimeforactualdevelopmentofit,that’swhenpeoplestepin.AndthatdiscoverywhichImadeonmyown,andWadehasmadeitonhis

own,andmany,manyothers--TomBearden--many,manyotherpeopleonthecuttingedgeofthesetechnologieshaveallcometobelievethattheworldisdefinitelycontrolledbyacabalofpeoplewhodon’twantthistohappen.That’sthesaddestpartofit,isthelackofawarenessamongmostpeopleintheworldthatthisisevenapossibility.AndifIweretodeveloppolicy,myownthinkingisthat:"Well,weshouldleavenostoneunturnedinourquestforcleanenergy,andcreatingaworldofabundance."Butsomehowthat’sperceivedbyThePowersThatBeasathreatto



them,justlikesignificanteconomicreform--oreconomicrevolutionisprobablyabetterwordnowforthesituationwe’rein--hasbeenvehementlyopposedbyWallStreetandthepeopleincharge.They’rediggingtheirheelsin.Sowe’reinvolvedinthisincrediblestorylinethat’sprobablymoresensationalthananythingthatcouldbedreamtupinHollywood.Andunfortunatelymostpeoplehavebeenveryslowtoawakentothispossibility.Becauseinasensethepoliticallypalatablewayofpresentingthismaterialisthat,simply:"Thisisapossibility.Let’slookatit.Let’sseehowwemightbeabletoimplementit.Let’sseewhatkindofworldwecanhavewiththisimplementation."Thesearethequestionsthatneedtobeaskednow.KC:OK.Thankyou,Brian.Wade,whatdoyouthinkaboutthepotentialforfreeenergynow,afteryou’vebeenthroughallthatyou’vebeenthrough?Politically,Imean...Whatdoyouthinkthechancesofactuallyturningthetide,asyousay,usingwhite-hatswhoareobviously,youknow,nothappywiththesituation?Andtherearemanypeoplebehind--they’reveryunhappywiththecurrentsituation.They’relookingfornewswaysofdoingthings.Doyouthinkthattheclimateissuchthatperhapsthisnewenergytechnologycannowcomethrough?WF:Ithinkyou’rekindofgettingtothenubofthematterhere.In

mywork--andagainthethingsIrealized,andthiswasthroughmyradicalizingexperiences--there’stheblack-hatsandthewhite-hatsandthey’redefinitelydoingtheirthing.Atthesametime,they’rereallynotverypowerful.Imean,you’retalkingmaybeafewthousandpeopleoutofsixbillionpeople.Andtheyhavedefinitelyalotoftricksintheirbag.ButwhenthedustsettledinVenturaIrealizedthatifIhadahundredDennis's,freeenergywouldhavebeeneasy.Itwouldhavebeen...We’dhavebeenunstoppable.Butthere’sonlyafewofhimontheplanet.So,thethingisforme,isthatit’snotaboutthewhite-andblack-hats.It’saboutus,thegreatunwashedmasses.Wecanmakeithappen.Butwecan’tmakeithappenifwecan’tevenimaginethatit

canbebetter.That’sthemessagethatI’mtryingtogetacross.I’mtryingtomakefreeenergythinkable.I’mtryingtomakeittowhere...tobringitoutof,eitherasBillsaid,someguytinkeringinhisgarage,orsomeStarTrekfantasyorsomething,tosay:"Nowthesethings,Iknowthey’rereal.Iknowthey’repossible."Andtheoutcomeofthat...I’vebeenlivingwiththisformanyyears.Icanbarelyimaginewhatitcoulddo.Thewholecourseofthehumanjourneycouldchangeverydramatically.Andso,Ithinkifenoughpeoplekindofunderstoodthat,itwouldn’ttakeverymanypeopletojusteventhinkaboutthisstufftomaybecreateenoughmomentumtogointhedirectionofhelpingithappen.

Becausewhathappensis,thepeoplepursuingthesethings,they’reouttherealoneinthedesert.Imean,that’stheproblem.They’reouttherealoneinthedesertandthey’resovulnerable.Again,mostpeoplejusttakethemoney.Sothehundredbilliondollarsinquietmoney...Ibetthatworkedninety-fivepercentofthetime.Theyjusttookthemoneyanditwasover.KC:Andwhenyoudon’ttakethemoney,whatdoyouthinkhappenstothepeoplewhentheydon’ttakethemoney?WF:Thentheystartplayingrough.KC:OK.



WF:Andagain,mostpeopletakethemoney.Infact,again,Bearden,Iheardhimtalkelevenyearsagoorsoaboutthis.Andsowhattheydois...it’sacarrotandstick.They’reverysubtle.Imean,it’savery...howtosayit?Iftheycamerightoutintheopenanditwasveryobviouswhattheyweredoing,toomanypeoplewouldcatchon.Soit’saverysophisticated,verysubtlekindofwaytheyoperate.Youknow,ittookmeovertenyearsafterthestingoperationalmostnabbedusformetokindoffigureoutwhatwasgoingon.Andsoit’sverysubtle.AndBeardentalksabouthowtheyoperate.Again,whatI’veseen,Ithinkhe’sright.AndalsowhatI’veseen,though,isthatoneprovocateursetlooseinthemidstofahundredaveragepeople?Provocateurprevails.ParticularlywhenyoustarthavingthepressureoflikewewereexperiencinginVenturaandSeattle.KC:Sowhatisit...doyouthinkthatthey’restillafteryou,sotospeak,inthatthey’restillmessingwithyouandthepeoplethatyouknowthatareworkinginthisarea?WF:OhGod!Ohsure!KC:Doyouthinkthey’restillmessingwithyou?WF:Idon’tknowofanissueofagreatermagnitudethantheenergyissuethathumanity’sfacingrightnow.OhmyGod,we’rehavingwarsinAsia,killingmillionsofpeopleoverthehydrocarbons.Theissueissomulti-faceted,it’ssoimmense,that...Ohyes,thisisbeing

verycarefullymanaged.Andagain,these“disruptivetechnologies”areverycarefullymonitored.Whatmyfriendsawwassomehowsomebodysnucksomethingoutthebackdooranddemonstratedsomeofthestuff,youknow?It’sverytightlycontrolledtomakesurethat“disruptivetechnologies”,particularlylikefreeenergy,donotappearonthescene.Youknow,it’spossiblethatit’sgoingtocomedowntothewhite-hatsandblack-hats.It’spossiblethat’showit’sgoingtobedetermined.Partofmehopesthat’snothowithappens.PartofmehopesthatenoughofUSmakeenoughnoiseinapositiveway.Butifenoughpeopleunderstoodthepotential,understoodwhatwaspossible,andunderstoodhowimportanttheycouldbetohelpmaking

thathappenbyjustsimplylendingtheirawarenesstotheissue...That’swhatI’mtryingtofindout.Ithinkthatthat’sawaythatitcanhappen.KC:Thankyou,Wade.That’sgreat.Brian,Iwouldliketoaskyou,becauseitsoundslikeyouandWadeareactuallyonthesamepagewiththis,asfaraswhat’snecessarynextistogetthewordoutinsuchawaythatpeoplebecomeeducatedsothatthemassofpeoplecanactuallymaybeturnthetide.Isthatyourfeeling?BO’L:Absolutely,Kerry.AndindeedWadeandIareonthesamepage.Andit’snotverymanyofusonthisplanetthatareonthesamepagerightnow,soit’skindofalonelyprocess.Buttothedegreethatwecanatleastinstillinenoughpeoplethefactthatthesethingsare

veryreal,thattheconceptshavebeenshowntoexist,thattheirdevelopmentrequiresanR&Deffortlikeanythingelsethatinvolvesnewtechnologies.Thiscertainlyhashappenedininformationtechnologyquiteabundantly.KC:So,Wade,whatareyoudoingnow?Imean,Iknowyou’vekindofrunaveryhardrace,itsoundslike,tryingtogetthisstuffoutthere.Areyouintouchwithsomepeoplenowthatareactuallyworkingonfreeenergythatarebeinginterferedwith?WF:Yes.Yes,there’ssome.Ilivedthroughit.OnmyjourneyIsaw



enoughpeoplelikemegoingthroughsimilarthings.BrianisincontactwithmanymoreofthosekindofpeoplethanIam.I’mawareofquiteafew.I’mintouchwithsome.AndIlovethem,thesepeoplewhoaretryingtodothesethings,buttheydon’thaveanysupport.KC:Youreffortistodrumupthesupport?WF:Yes!KC:Inotherwords,you’vekindofchangedyourtacticfromencouragingorworkingonfreeenergydirectlyyourself,totryingtodrumupagrassrootseffort?WF:Intheend,ifIcanhaveapartinhelpingpeoplejustimaginethatit’spossible,forme...I’mdone.IfIachievethat,IwillhaveachievedsomethingthatIwouldbehappytoachieve.Thatwouldbeenoughformetojusthelpenoughpeopleunderstandthatthesethingsarefeasible,andwhatcancomeoutofthat.Yes,that’swhereI’vebeensince1989whenIsprungDennisfromjail.Iwasprettymuchdone.Andagainhegotmetorejoinwithhimbackin’96,’97.IwasonlythereafewmonthsbutitwasathingwhereIhaven’treallybeenactivelyinvolvedindoingtheIndianaJonesthingfor,again,twentyyears.Andagain,threeyearswas...Thatwasenough.Itwasenoughforonelifeformeofdoingthat.Infact,Idon’tknowhowDennisdoesit.Someofthesepeople,Idon’tknowhowtheydoit.Ireallydon’tknow.

KC:Whenyousayyoudon’tknowhowtheydoit,you’resayingyoudon’tknowhowtheydealwiththeoppositionthattheyget?Isthatwhatyoumean?WF:No-no.Imean,sohere’sDennis,survivedanumberofmurderattempts,beenbehindbarstwicefortwoyears,almostgotkilledinsidethere,turneddownabillion-dollaroffertogoaway.There’snow,again,there’sgoingtobesomeTVshow’sgoingtosmearhimonSunday.TheFTC’stryingtoshuthimdown,andhe’sstillatit!That’sthepartwhereI’mgoing:Howdoyoustillkeepdoingit?Sothat’sthethingthat,forme,bogglesmymind.Oragain,there’sotherpeople.Imean,Greer’soneofthem.Theygothroughimmensehardships,andtheycomebackformore.Andforme,that’s...

LikeBrian.Brian’sbeendoingthisforalongtime.AndI’vebeendoingit,butIdon’tplayattheirlevel.Itriedtodosomethingdifferentandagain,theridewastooroughforme.Theridewastoorough.AndIsaid:"Ican’taffordtodothatanymore".Anyway,that’skindofwhatIwassaying,isthatIdon’tknowhowsomeofthesepeopleareabletodowhattheydo.KC:AreyoufamiliarwithRalphRing?RalphRingisafreeenergypersonfromwayback.Backinthe’60s,theFBIcameinandclosedhimdownwhenhewasworkingwithOtisCarr.SoIwonderedifperhapsyouknewabouthim.He’squiteelderly.WF:No.KC:He’sactuallynowbackatit.He’sbackatworktryingtogetfunding,and...

WF:Ihavenothingbutadmiration...KC:Sodoyougiveadvicetothesepeople?JohnHutchison,forexample.Doyouknowhim?WF:Yes.I’veinteractedwithMr.Hutchison.Ohman...it’shard,becauseIcan...Thatthey’retryingtodoitissohonorableandwonderful,andtheoddsagainstthemareSOimmense.Imean,they’reSOimmense.intoday’sworld.Andsoit’slikeamousetryingtotakeonanelephant.Andyou’reseeingthisandmyheartgoesouttothesepeopleforthis.Andagain,I’mtryingtosay:"I’mtryingtogetyousomehelpby



helpingmorepeopletobecomeawareofwhat’sgoingon."Becausemostofthesepeople,theyjustendup...asBriansaidthisisalonely,lonelyjourney.Theycan’tdoitbythemselves.Myopinionisthattheydon’thaveaprayerbythemselves.They’retoovulnerable.It’seasytotakethemout.Wehadhundredsandhundredsofpeopleinvolvedwhentheytookusout.Ittakesmore.Ittakesmorepeoplewiththerightstuff.KC:Doyouthinktimeshavechangedsufficientlytowheretheremightbeachanceforthesepeople,becauseofthedownturnintheeconomyandthediscontentthat’soutthere?WF:Yes,Ibelievethatthebigshiftswillhappenquiteoftenwhenthecurrentstructurekindofcrumbles.Right?Soitdoesbringopportunities.Yes,theseareverypregnanttimes.Ibelievethatweareinthemiddleofquiteatransition.Whetherwemakeitornotisprobablystillanopenquestion,butIthinkweareinthistransitorytimewhentheoldwaysarestartingtocrumble.Soyes,there’slotsofopportunity.Andagain,whatBrianistryingtodo,whatI’mtryingtodoistogiveextremelypositivesolutionsthatarerightthere.Itwouldn’ttakemuchtoturnthisintoheavenonEarth.Itreallywouldn’ttakethatmuchtodothat.Definitelythere’smorepeoplewhoarepulling

upfromthedream,let’ssay,thatwe’reallkindoffed,andtryingtoseedifferently.Soyes,Ithinkthere’sopportunity.KC:Wellit’swonderfultohearyousaythat.Andobviously,afterallthatyou’vebeenthrough,it’sreallyextraordinarythatyoucanstillholdthatperspective.WF:Well,thankyou,andithasn’tbeeneasy.KC:[laughs]OK.WellIdidwanttoaskyou,whatwasyourparanormalevent,orseriesofevents,thatpushedyouonthisroad?WF:OK.Iwasthisscienceprodigyasayoungchild.Andagain,mydadusedtoworkinMissionControl,andso...Imean,mydadleftHoustonjustbeforeBrianmovedthere,andsowe’vehadthesekindofparallel...

Anyhow,Iwasthiskindofspacebrat,scientistkid.AndasateenagerIstartedgettingintroducedtosomeoftheprettymundaneinventionsthatwere,comparedtowhat’sonthemarket,trulyrevolutionary.Andagainthat’swhenIstartedkindof“gettingit.”LikewhenIwastwelveyearsold,myfatherreversedthehardeningofhisarteriesbyadoptingalive-fooddiet,somethingthatmedicineatthattimesaidwasimpossible.SoIwasintroducedtotheimpossiblehappeningatagetwelve.Andagain,Ihadmymysticalawakeningatagesixteen...KC:OK.Butwhat’syourmysticalawakening?Whatdoyoumeanwhenyousayyourmysticalawakening?WF:OK.That’sagoodquestion.BrianandIhadthesameexercise

thatbothinitiatedourmysticalawakening,whichwas...backthenitwascalledtheEdgarCayceMethod.Todaytheycallitremoteviewing.ButIwasinaSilvaMindControlclassin1974.BriantookLifespringin1979.Andattheendofthistraining,you’regiventhename,age,sex,andcityandthenIwasabletodescribe...Well,actuallymoredramatically,Ihadsomebodyinmind,andIgavethisinformationtosomebodyelse,andtheywereabletodescribetome--instartlingdetail--thisperson.



Thatwasthebeginningofmymysticalawakening,wasseeingpeopleperformpsychically,verydramatically.AndthenitwasmyturnandIwasabletodothesamething.AndBrian,whenhetookLifespring,hehadthesameexperience.Infact,thoseclasseswereverypopularinthe’70s.Millionsofpeopletookthemwithsimilarresults.Anyway,forme,thatturnedsomethingoninmeandIthinkitopenedupmyintuitiveside.Butagain,tomeitwasthebeginningofmymysticalawakening.Andmostofmyfellowtravelersinthisfield,theyusuallyhadsomekindofexperiencelikethatwhentheywereintheirlateteensorearlytwenties.Greerhadanear-deathexperienceatseventeen.OneofmyfellowtravelershadaKundaliniexperienceasacollegephysicsstudentandthendevelopedafreeenergyprototypethatwasimmediatelyseized.Andagain,hewasinhisearlytwenties.Thisisaverycommonagewhenthiskindofthinghappened.Andmyprofessionalmentorthatinventedtheengineandstuff,youknow,“world’sbestengine”comestohimatastoplight!Wheredoesthatcomefrom?Soanyway,Ijusthadenoughofthosekindsofexperiencesandthenhadsomeofmyownexperiencesthatreallyopenedmyeyes.KC:WhataboutUFOs?Didyouhaveanykindofencounterexperiences?WF:Yes.I’veencounteredlotsofpeoplewho’veseencraft.Somepeoplehavehad“closeencountersofthethirdkind”.ButIjustheard

alotofthisstuff.Itwasonmylistofthingstodo,wastogooutandseeone,andthen...Anyway,oneofmyfellowfreeenergytravelerssaidhewouldgodownnearMountAdamsandwatchUFOsflyover.AcoupleofmyaerospacebuddiesfromBoeingorganizedatripthere,in2005,forustogowatchUFOs,andwegotourshow.AndIwentbackthenexttwoyearsinarow,andIgotashoweveryyear.KC:Oh,youwenttoTroutLake?[Ed.note:JamesGilliland'sranchinWashingtonstate]WF:Yes.KC:Absolutely.Wewentaswell,andwe’veseenJamesGilliland’s,

youknow,we’vebeenuptohisranchandsawthecraft.WF:Ourfirstnightthere,Jamessaid:"LetmeseeifIcangetonetodosomething",andaminutelateronedid,verydramatically.Infact,therewasanAirForcecaptainstandingnexttome,andagain,acoupleofBoeingguys,anditblewtheirdoorsoff,that’sforsure.Soanyway,yes.I’veexperiencedthat.KC:Billistellingmethatwhenyourfriendhadhismachineseized,thattheyknewitwasthereeventhoughitwasasecret.Doyouthinktheyremote-viewed?Theyhadtheirremoteviewerstapintothesituation?WF:Youknow,Idon’tknowonthatone.Ijustknowthat,actuallyitgotseizedtwice.I’mgoing:"Wow,theymusthaveprettygood

surveillancetodothatkindofstuff."Andthenagaininmycircles,somebodywhoshouldknowsaid:"Ohyes.Theycantellwhenanybodyintheplanettapsintothatfield."AndI’mlike:"Oh...OK."Idon’tknowexactlyhowthey’reabletosurveilandtodothisbuttheydid.Hewasaphysicsstudentandheactuallygoesintothisphysicslabandhebread-boardsaprototypethatworks.Ithinkhewasusingtheradianteffect,whichisoneofthefreeenergywaysoutthere.HehadaMen-in-Blackexperienceafewhourslater...seizedthe



prototype.Hewaskindofbootedoutontothesidewalk,kindofgoing:"Whatthehellwasthatallabout?"Hewasprobably,youknow,twenty-oneorsomething.Andanyway,sohe’slike:"Theycan’tdothat!"Sohegoesandrentsoutsomewarehousespacesomewhereverysecretlyunderanassumedname.Sohe’sdoingthissecretly--they’llneverfindout.Andheendsupmakingithappenagainandafewhourslater,Men-in-Blackexperienceagain.KC:That’sfascinating.I’msuretheysurveiltheentireplanetforfreeenergydevicesandIimaginetheyareabletopickthemupinthematrix.WF:WhenIaskedsomebody:"How’dtheydothat?"theysaid:"Well,theyhavesatellitetechnologythatcansurveilthewholeplanet.AnybodytapsintothisZPEfield,theyknowit."SoI’mlike:"Oh.OK."And,myunderstandingisthatifyouevertapintothatkindofstuff,itdependsonwhoyouareandwhereyouareasfaraswhattheirresponsewillbe.Soifyou’reagroupofahundredpeople,they’regoingtohavetobeverycarefulabouthowtheydoit.Butifyou’rejustakidinalab,theyjustsendintheteam.It’seasytotake

careofitwithjustoneperson.KC:Doyouthinkthattheirtacticshavechangedovertheyears?WF:Iwouldimagine.Inyourjourneyyoujusthearthesevariousthingshappening,andyou’rekindagoing:"Whoa!Lookatthat."Yes.Sowhattheyusedto,let’ssaythirtyyearsagoorso,theywereextremelyviolent.ImeanI’veheardofstufflikeaguy’swholefamilybeingmurdered,andthentheyburnthehousedownandthenbulldozeit.Andthiskindofstuffhashappened.Dennishasbeenhighprofileanumberoftimes.InVenturawewereprettyhighprofile,andwewereapproachedonce.I’mgoingtosayprobablythirtyyearsago,therewasthisguywhowas...hehadbuiltawindmillfarmoutintheSouthwest.Hewasrich.

Hewaslikeapparentlyworthfourhundredmilliondollars,andheinvestedthirty-fivemilliondollarsofhisownmoneyintothiswindmillfarm.Hewasmakingelectricity.Hewastryingtosellittoelectriccompanies.Andthenhewasworkinglateattheofficeonenightandhegetsacallandprettymuchthecallermadeitveryclearthat:"Youhaveachoice.Youcaneitherleaveyourfacilitythere,neverreturn,oryourfamilywillbedeadbydawn.What’sitgoingtobe?"KC:[laughs]Wow.WF:Andagain,whenyou’reworthfourhundredmilliondollarstheycan’t...whatkindofcarrotcanyougivetosomebodyworthfourhundredmilliondollars?Sotheyjustcomerightoutwiththestick.

Anyway,thisguy,hegoes:Well,ItookoutmycalculatorandIbangedinthenumbersandthatwasninepercentofmynetworth.AndIjustdecideditain’tworthit.Hejustpackedhisbriefcaseandleavesandneverreturned.Andagain,heshowedupatourofficeinalimojustbeforetheydroppedthesledgehammeronus,andhesaid:"Iwishyouguysthebest,butyouhavenoideawhatyou’reupagainst."SoIkindoffoundoutwhathewastalkingabout.ButI’msayingbackthentheyusedtodostufflikethat.Myunderstandingisthatit’samoresubtlegame



thattakesplacenow.WF:WhatdoyouthinkBrian?Doyouthinkit’smoresubtlenowadays?BO’L:Oh,verygoodquestion,Kerry.Yes,Ithinkit’sabitmoresubtlenow.IknowI’vehadmyownexperiencesandhavematcheditwithothersthatgobacktotheearly’90s--andveryunpleasantexperienceswhereIrefusedtoberecruitedintosomethingandtherewassomerecriminationandsomethreatsthatIwon’tgointoindetail.ButIthinkifIcomparemystorywiththatofothersandlookatthehistoryofallofthis...AlthoughIcan’tsayforsurebecauselikemydearfriendandlatecolleague,GeneMallove,wasbrutallymurderedin’04.KC:WhatdoyouthinktippeditovertheedgewithMallove?Doyouthinkthathewastooclosetosomethingorthathesimplycouldn’tbebroughtundertheirwinginacertainway?Whydoyouthinktheyattackedhimsobrutally?BO’L:Hewasatruehero.He’soneofmyheroesofmylifetime.Ijusttremendouslyrespectedhisworkbecause...HewasthechiefsciencewriterforMITandin1989FleischmannandPons,twochemistsfromtheUniversityofUtah,claimedtohavediscoveredcoldfusion,whichisaprocessthathasnowbeenreplicatedmany,manytimesoverbymanycompetentscientists.Butatthattime,1989,theirclaimwasviciouslyrefutedbysomeofthenuclearphysicistsatMIT.

Well,MallovewasgoingtosupportthemindebunkingthecoldfusiondiscoveryandfoundinsteadthattheMITscientistswerenotonlyfalselydebunkingtheevidencebutactuallycommittingfraud.Andsohehadthecouragetostanduptothesescientists,andtoMIT,whereuponhewassummarilydismissed,[laughs]wentonhisown,andfoundedInfiniteEnergyMagazine,whichIthinkisawonderfulmagazine,particularlyinthosedayswhenhewaseditor.Hewasarealadvocateofnewenergy,probablythemostarticulateonebecausehewasveryrigorousscientifically.Hewouldnotmakeanyclaimsthatcouldn’tbesubstantiated.Andso,obviouslyfromthepointofviewoftheworldcontrollers,hewasathreat.Andhewasalsointheprocessofgettingfundingforcreatingaresearchand

developmentlaboratory.HehadbeenshuttlingbackandforthtoWashingtonjustbeforehismurder,which,althoughthecoverstoryofthemurderwasthatitwasarobbery,therealstory...Iwouldsayalmostanybodythatknewhim,includinghisfamily,arejust,youknow,besidethemselvesintryingtofindouthowthishappened,whodidit,andsoforth.Andsothere’sanexampleofarealherowhowassacrificed.KC:Doyouthinkthathewassacrificedbecausehewas“oneofthem”originallyandbecausehewassoarticulateandgettingsoclose?Imean,inthesensethatheworkedforMIT.Hewasn’tjustsomeguywithaninventioninhisgarage.Heactuallycameoutofaverysophisticatedbackground.

BO’L:Yes.Iwouldimagine,yes,becausehewasoneoftheshakersandmoversofthefieldandhepullednopunches.Healsohadavery,verywell-groundedscientificandphilosophicalperspectiveontheissuesraisedbythepossibilityoffreeenergy.Andsohejust...thisobviouslydisturbedThePowersThatBe.AnotherexamplewasStefanMarinov,whowasaprofessorofphysicsattheUniversityofGrazinAustria.Andalsojustafewyearsago-Iforgottheexactyear,butitwasearlythiscentury-he“jumped”fromthetenthstoryofhislibrarybuildingattheUniversityofGraz.



Well,hewasEurope’spremierfreeenergyadvocate.I’dmethimmanytimes,talkedwithhim.Heseemedtobeaveryjolly,andvery,verywell-adjustedpersonwhowasdoingreallygoodbreakthroughwork,evenhadamotorthathehadinventedwhichhedemonstratedandquitewidelyshowed.Soit’sjustanotherexample.Therearejustsomanyexamplesofsuppression.JohnHutchison,adearfriendofmine.We’vetouredJapantogetherandhe’shad...ThankGodhe’sstillalive.He’sjustabrilliantmanwhohasmanagedtodevelopdramaticdemonstrationsofantigravitytechnology,withafantasticintuition,andjustaveryfineperson.Well,theUSmilitaryhasgivenhimnoendofproblems.So,youlookatthesestories,oneafteranother,andyouhavetocometotheconclusionthatprettyconsistentlyrightupuntilthismoment,thesedevelopmentshavebeensuppressed.Andisitgettinganybetter?Idon’tknow.Iknowwe’vehadthesediscussions,Kerry,andyouhavefoundsomesignsthatitisandIwouldlovetothinkthatitis.Ithinkthatthepeoplethatreallyneedtoawakenhere,asWadeoftensuggests,thattheonlypeoplethatseemtoawakenandareabletopeelthefreeenergyonionarepeoplethatarealreadysomewhat

sentientandhavehadexperiencesinanumberofdifferentavenues--notonlyscience,ornotonlybeingapoliticalprogressive--butthatpeoplesomehowneedtogothroughmany,manydifferentexperiencesinavarietyofwaysbeforetheycanevenembracethepossibilitythatthiscouldhappen.Iknowforme,Ihadtogooutandvisittheinventors,theresearchers,myselfandmakeitapersonalprojecttoseetheseproofs-of-concept,andmostpeopledon’thavethatluxury.AndsoIfeelforthemwhensomebodylikeme...eventhoughIhaveallthesegoodcredentials.Evenso,mostpeoplethatcallthemselves“pragmatists”willkindofrolltheireyesorglaze,andtheywon’tevenlookatthepossibilitythatthiscouldbe.Butthenifweunderstandthehistoryofscience.Ifweunderstandthe

famousBertrandRussellquote:"Theresistancetoanewideaincreasesasthesquareofitsimportance"...Andifwe’retalkingabouttotallyrevampingtheeconomy,totallyrevampingourenergysystem,totallyrevampingourwholeindustrialandfinancialculture,whichisdiggingitsheelsinalongsidethemilitary/industrialcomplex,you’retalkingaboutarevolutionhere,anenergy-solutionrevolution,which...tothedegreethatpeoplecanbecomeeducatedtothispossibilityandtoacknowledgeit--oratleastleanintoit--toevenaskthesimplequestion:OK,Idon’tbelievethisisrealorpossible,butlet’sdoamindexerciseandlet’ssay:“Well,OK,let’ssayifsomebodycomesalongwitha

technologythatcouldtrulydothis,dowewanttohaveit?”AndIshouldthinkthattheclearanswerwouldbe"Yes!"Aslongaswecandevelopsocialandpoliticalsystemstobirththiswholenewparadigmshift,andthenwehaveafightingchance,Ithink.AndWade,I’msureyou’dtotallyagreethatwehaveafightingchancetosavetheplanet,torespecttheEarthandnature.KC:Ithinkthat’swonderful,Brian.Ithinkthat,youknow,that’saverygoodpointandverywellsaidbyyou.AndBillwantsmetosay,



thatmostgreatscientistsaremystics.WF:Wellthat’swhat...Imean,ifyoulookattheguyswho...physicsridesontheirshoulderstoday,Einstein,andHeisenberg,andSchrödinger,andtheseguys,theyalltoonedegreeoranotherhadamysticalorientation.AndagaininmyownexperiencewithmyTesla-likementorandagaintheotherpeople,myfellowtravelers,againonthecuttingedgeofthisfreeenergystuff,theyprettymuchallhaveamysticalorientation,toonedegreeoranother.Imean,somearewayoutthere.Somevisitotherdimensions.Andsomearekindoflike:"Oh,IthinkIhavepastlives."Sothere’saspectrumthere,butessentiallythey’renotmaterialists.Imean,noneofthemarematerialists.KC:Wade,wereyoufamiliarwithMalloveandhiswork?WF:Somewhat.IwasincontactwithMallove.Andagain,theNewEnergyMovementwasorganizingitsconferencethatithadin2004andMallovewasthefirstspeakerlinedup.Andanyway,welinedhimupandaweekafterthat,whichwasaverystrangeweek,veryemotional...Itwasabizarreweek.Anyway,hegetsmurderedasI’mbeingemailedfromoneoftheparticipantssaying:"Ithinkwe’reunderattack."Anyway,IhadthatencounterwithMallove.Again,thethingwithMallove,withmeandhisworkwasthatIreadsomethinghewrotelessthanayearbeforehediedwherehewassaying

there’sthreemainwaystogoafterfreeenergy.AndoneofthemwastheexactthingweweretryinginVentura[laughs],whichwastakingatmosphericheatandbeingabletogetusefulworkoutofit.Andagain,Iwasinterestedinwhathehadtosayaboutthat,soIcontactedhimandweweregoingtohavesomemoreexchanges,andthenhedied.KC:Right.OK.I’msorry.YouhadspokenaboutthatearlieronandIhadforgottenaboutthatassociation.Well,thisisreallyvery,veryimpressive.Bothyouguyshavegotsuchagreatbackgroundinallofthisandthefactthatyou’vetakenevenyourtechnicalskillsandturnedthemintopublicspeaking,towhereyouwouldactuallybringtheknowledgetothepeopleandmakewhatisinessenceagrassrootsmovementisreallybrilliant,you

know.It’sreallythebestapproach,Iwouldthink.SoIjustwanttosaythankyoufromallofusfordoingthat,bothyou,WadeFrazier,andBrianO’Leary.Haveyouguysknowneachotherforalongtime?WF:Well,ImetBrianin’91whenIhadtopickhimupattheairportforaNewScienceconference.WedroverightpastWright-PattersonAirForceBaseandmadejokesaboutHangar18,theBlueRoom,andstuff,andsothat’swhenImetBrian.AndthenwhenhepublishedMiracleintheVoidin’96,Iboughtaboutthirty-fivecopiesofit.Anyway,Brian,itquicklybecameevidenttome...I’dalreadybeenthroughmysaladdaysonthefreeenergyfrontwhenImetBrian,anditbecameveryclearthatBrianwaship.We’vehadinteractionsover

theyearsandheinvitedmetobeontheNewEnergyMovementboardbackin2003.We’relivingondifferentcontinentsrightnow,butasmuchasIcanhelpBriandowhathedoes,I’mhonoredtodoit.BO’L:Ifeelthesamewayaboutyou,Wade,thatsomeofyourinsight,andourjourneysinparallelandtogether,thatourinteractionshavebeenveryimportantandthatthere’sbeenalotoflearningonmypartfromyou,ingivingthisabroadercontextthanjustvettingthisorthatnewenergyconcept,whichpeoplestillaskmefor.Theystillcometomeandsay:"Heywhatdoyouthinkofthis?Whatdoyouthinkoftheaircar?Whatdoyouthinkofthissonoluminescencedevice?"



I’venowgoneawayfromthat.I’mmoreinterestedincombiningpoliticswiththeseconceptsandalsoobserving.BecauseIthink,Wade,youhelpedradicalizemeinsomeofthewritingsofNoamChomskyandEdHermanandsoforth,thatthesearethekindsofguysthatyouwouldthinkcouldawakentothis,butno,theyhaven’t.AndthesamethinggoesforRichardHeinberg.Sowekeeptryingtotellthem:"Well,whataboutthepossibilityofthis?"Andnowandthenyou’llgetthisscathingresponsefromthelikesofHeinbergorMikeRuppertorsomeotherpeoplethatyou’dthinkwouldembracethesethings,butsomehowarestillverymuchindenial.Soitisalonelyroad.AndthepeoplethatIthinkwillbetakingtheleadherewillbebrandnewpeople,peoplethatwillcomeforward.Andmaybethiseconomiccrisisisnowprovidingagreateropportunity-it’smyhopeanyway-forustodevelopanewkindofleadership,systemically,andreallystartfromscratch,andtomakeachangewecanbelievein[laughs]notletitjustbeemptyslogansthatrespondtoWallStreetandthemilitary-industrialcomplex,whichinturnrespondstohigherforcesthataresomehowsuppressingthesepossibilities.KC:Thankyou,Brian.That’swonderful.WhatI’dliketodoisbringbackBillhere.ButIalsowantedtoaskbothofyouifyoucould

respondtowhatisityouthinkwhenyouseethingslike,youknow,theSpaceShuttleandtheSpaceStationandthewaythey’redealingwiththis?Whatinessenceissendingatincanupintotheair,youknow?[laughs]Imean,whatdoyouthinkwhenyouseethatthey’recreatinganewtechnology,supposedlyplanningtogotoMarsandMoon?There’sanewmissionunderway.Butwhatdoyouthinkaboutthetechnologythey’regoingtousetodothesethings,thefactthatthey’restillrelyingonthisoldtechnology?BO’L:Youknow,forone,Ithinkthatwe’relivinginthepast.We’relivingwithpastmodelsthatarefallingapart.EversincetheSpaceShuttlewasfirstproposedIrealizedthatNASAwasfallingapartbecauseitwasabureaucraticinvention,kindofamiasma.Andthe

samewiththeSpaceStation,sortofa“Tinker-Toys”designedbyaerospacecompaniestolinetheirpockets.Rightnowthetechnologieswe’reusingaredrasticallyold.They’resimplynotworthwhile.They’reinthepast.It’sexpensive.Itpollutestheatmosphere.TheShuttleitselfcontributestotheholeintheozonelayer.Everylaunchissomethingliketen-to-fifteenbilliondollars.Wecan’taffordthatkindofstuff.KC:Whatdoyouthinkaboutthefactthatthey’replanningtopowerthenewmissionsusingnuclear?BO’L:Ah!That’sdisaster!Youknow,ifyougetmegoingonnuclear...IwasthenuclearenergyadvisortoMorrisUdall’sEnergy

andEnvironmentsubcommitteeoftheUScongress,andourcommitteeprettysingle-handedlystoppednuclearpowerinitstracks.Anykindofnucleartechnology,foranybodythatlooksatit,ishighlydangerous.Thelong-livedradioactivewasteproducts...wehaven’tfoundawaytoburythem.Theyhavehalf-livesoftensofthousandsofyears.We’repollutingtheEarthforourchildrenandtheirchildrenandforallofnature.We’vegottoletgoofthattechnologyonehundredpercent.FornucleartechnologytobeusedinanyspaceapplicationoranyapplicationontheEarthisyetanotherbigdanger-point.



It’ssortoflikerightnowhumansareterror-formingtheEarthwithvariousgeo-engineeringprojects,whetherit’sthedevelopmentofnucleartechnology,orchemtrails,ordepleteduranium.Theseareallhorrible,horribleprojects.Andyousee,weneedtodevelopanewkindofadvocacy,anewcombinationoftruthmovementsthatlookatallofthesethings--9/11,theofficialstory--tokindof“popabubble”ofthesacredmythsofourtimeandtoproceedonwardwiththekindsofnewtechnologiesthatarecleanandcheap,likefreeenergy.Wejusthavetodothis!Andpeoplehavetoawaken.Andrightnow,therearen’tverymanyofusthatadvocatethat.Sotothedegreeyourlistenerscanbegintoembracethesethingsandtomaketheleapoffaith,ifyouwill,beforereallyfindingoutingreatdetailthatanumberofmythsneedtobedestroyed,weneedsomesortofprocessoftruthandreconciliation.Weneedtoradicallychangeoursystems,andObamaisnowabout.00001percentofthewayindoinganyofthat.Soitisdisappointing,butwejustkeephavingtoprevailandgettothetruth,whichisalwaysthefirststeptowardrealizingwhatweneedtodo.KC:Wade,whatwouldyousayaboutthefactthat,youknow,freeenergyexists?It’sbeenouttherefor,Idon’tknow,sinceatleastthe1950s,wouldn’tyousay?Andyetthey’replanningonpoweringthe

nextmissiontoMarsandtheMoonusingnuclearfuel.WF:[laughs]Wellyouknow,Brianistheastronaut[Kerrylaughs]soIdefinitelydefertoBrian’sopiniononthosethings.Butit’sathingwhere...KC:Right...WF:Actually,whatBrianwasjustdiscussing,Ihaveashortanecdote,whichwas:DennisandIspokeatDepartmentofEnergyhearingsbackin1997whentheyweretryingtodothe,what’scalledtheWIPP,whichwasthelow-intensitynuclearwaste,nottheplaceinNevadawheretheystill...it’snotevenbigenoughtoholdwhattheygottoday.Itwasthethingwhereweapproachedthemwithneutralizationtechnologytomakenuclearwaste,Imean,toneutralizeit.Andwe

wereusingBrown’sGas.Longstorythere.Butanyway,interestingly,wespokethereandwewerelocatedrightnexttothisSavannahfacility,likeonAtomicBoulevard.Anyway,DennisandIspokeatacoupleofhearingsthatday.Andtheinterestingthingwasthatthemostexcitedpersonatthehearingwasthepersonwhoorganizedit.Andatthelunchbreak,heactuallyfollowsusouttothecarandgivesushiscardandstuff.Andhesaidthatwewerethethirdgroupthatattendedthesehearingstopresentaneutralizationtechnology.Andhesaid,andI’llneverforgetthis,hesaid:"Thepeoplemanagingnuclearwastestandtomakeatonofmoneydoingthis.Ifyouranswer

doesn’tmakethematonofmoney,itwon’tgoanywhere."Andthenhesaid:"I’manunderlingwithnopower,butI’llseewhatIcando."[laughs]Andofcoursenothinghappened.Anyway,sotome,yes,asBriansaid,actuallyusingnuclearfissiontoactuallypowerthesemissionsandstuff--it’snightmarish.It’stotallynightmarish.Infact,whenIknowthatother,[laughs]totallyclean,benigntechnologiesexistandwe’reusingthis,youknow--extremelyprimitive.AsEinsteinsaid:"Nuclearfission’sonehellofawaytoboilwater."So,it’sjustreallyhorrifying.It’sactually



horrifyingthatwe’redoingthesethings.KC:OK.Thankyousomuch,bothofyouguys,becausethat’sgreattohearyousaythatandofcoursetohearanastronauttalkabouttheabsurdityofusingnuclearfueltosendmissionsout...andherewearein2009.Itjustkindofbogglesthemind.Thishastobeafake,youknow,frontgame,really,forwhatisreallygoingonbehindthescenes,youhavetobelieve,intermsofNASAandwhat’sreallygoingonthere.ButwhatI’lldohereis...Bill,canyoucomeforwardandsortofaskafewquestionsyourself?AndI’lltranslateifnecessary.BR:[laughs]OK.Thankyou.Ijustwanttothankallofyou,actually,becauseeversinceIrealizedthatmyBritishJamesBondshaken-but-not-stirredaccentwasn’ttotallyunderstandablethere,I’vebeensittinginthefrontrowofthisaudience,hugelyenjoyingthisconversation.AndIwanttothankyouverymuchforthat.And,Kerry,thanksalotforsteppingintotheMC’sshoeshere,becauseIknowthatyouhadn’tpreparedyourselfquiteasmuchforthisinterviewasIhadbyreadingWade’svoluminous1200-pagewebsitethatIinviteanyonetotakealuckydipintobecauseitisencyclopedic.BrianhasalreadyansweredthefinalquestionthatIwantedtoputtoyouboth,whichwaswhatchangesdoeshereallyhopetoseeinhislifetime?AndwhatIwouldliketodoisjusttoaskWadebriefly...ifyoucansaysomethingtothat,thatwouldinspireanyyoungactivists,because

theyareoutthere.Wehearfromthemregularly,peoplewhoareonasteeplearningcurve,andalotofenergy,andwhohaven’tyethadthatenergyblunted.Weknowthatthey’reoutthere,andthosepeoplewillfindawaytolistentothisconversationbecauseit’sgoingtobeveryimportanttothem.Andtheopportunityhereistoleavethosepeoplewithsomethingthatwillinspireandencouragethemtopickupthetorchwhichyoutwohavebothbeencarrying,andofcoursemanyothershavebeencarryingthistorchaswell.Whatcanyouleavetheseyoungwarriorswith,tohelpthemcontinuewithwhatyou’veconsideredyourlife’sworktobe?WF:Wellthankyou.Whatmymessagewouldbeisthis:"Youarenotpursuingsomethingephemeral.You’repursuingthingsthatareveryreal."OK?Theseareveryreal.Thisstuff’sreal.It’snotafantasy.

It’snotsomecrazyconspiracytheory.Thisisveryrealstuff.Andthepotentialofthisissomethingthatnoneofuscanreallyfathom.Wereallycan’tfathomwhatthepotentialofsomethinglikethisis.Andso,Idon’tknow...Imean,Idon’tknow...tomethatseemsworthwhile!KC:Youknow,Wade,yourlifeitselfandalsoBrian’slife,bothofyouareaninspirationinitself.Imean,youractuallifeexperience-andsharingthat-isverypowerful.AndI’mveryhappythatBillwasscientificallyastuteenoughtobeabletotargetandfindyououtbecauseyou’renotreallyinthemainstreamatthemoment.Butyou’reobviouslyapersonthatdeservesgreatrespect,asdoesBrian.Andit’sreallylovelytohearyouspeakaboutyourbackgroundandall,so

Ijustwanttothankyouverymuch,bothofyou.BR:Ithinkthishasbeenanexcellentconversation.Iwanttothankyoubothforyourtimeandyourcommitment.It’salongroughroad,Ithink,thatyoutwoguyshavebeenon,andbyspeakingoutsoenergeticallyandpositively,Ithinkthatyouwillhavedonealottoencourageaninterestandenlightensomeoftheseyoungactivistswhoweknowwillbewatchingthis--becausethistorchmustbepickedup.It’satorchthatmustgrowmoreandmorebrightly.



I’mconvincednow,Wade,havingreadalotofyoursite,thatfreeenergyissuchahugeissue,andalsoIshouldsayhavingreadseveralofBrian’sbooksaswell.Itgoeseverywhere.Itgoesintotheenvironment.Itgoesintotheeconomy.Itgoesintopolitics.Itgoesintocontrolagendas.Itgoesintoeveryaspectofsocietythatweknowabout.Thisiswhyit’sreallyattheheartofeverything,andofcoursethisiswhytheactivistsdogetstompedonsohard.Butyou’restillstanding!Andweacknowledgeandsaluteyouforthatandthankyouverymuchindeedforyourinspirationtoeveryonewhowillbelisteningtothis.BO’L:Thankyou,Bill.WF:Thankyou,Bill.AndthankyouforwhatyouandKerryaredoing.It’simportantwork.Thanksforbeingthere.

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