The Insiders’ Secrets To Profiting From Social Media
Paul Dunay
How To Use Facebook To Attract New and Repeat
Business To Grow Your Annual Revenue
Brought to you by Charlie Cook
© Copyright • Charlie Cook, MarketingForSuccess, InMind Communications, LLC
NOTICE: This report is licensed to the original purchaser only. Duplication or distribution via e-mail, floppy disk, network, printout or other means to a person other than the original purchaser is a violation of international copyright law. © Copyright, Charlie Cook, In Mind Communications, LLC. All rights reserved. No part of this book may be reproduced in any form, by any means (including electronic, photocopying, recording or otherwise) without the prior written permission of the publisher. Published by: Marketing For Success, In Mind Communications, LLC Old Greenwich, CT 06870
Insiders’ Social Media Marketing Paul Dunay
© Copyright • Charlie Cook, MarketingForSuccess, InMind Communications, LLC
1
Charlie: Today we’re talking with Paul Dunay of Avaya, author of
Facebook Marketing for Dummies. We’re going to discover
how to leverage the power of the Facebook community to
achieve your business marketing goals.
As way of introduction I’d like to start with sharing one of
the comments posted about Paul’s book on
www.Amazon.com.
The person who purchased Paul’s book wrote, “I bought
this book about two weeks ago thinking it could help my
business. I read it, and it seemed very logical and made a
lot of sense. I decided to use the free $50 credit which
came with the book.
“It’s amazing what happened with the information the
book had to offer. I followed the steps to make a page for
my company and bought some advertising space with the
free credit.
“The next day when I woke up, I went to check on the
results and I was stunned. My website had 150 more
page views than it normally gets in a day, and I had four
more sales than I normally get per day. The Facebook
credit hadn’t even been completely used up.
“With the simple tips in this book my website now gets
twice as much traffic as it did before I followed its steps.”
Paul, welcome to the call.
Paul: Thank you so much for having me. That’s a really great
endorsement. I’m glad you read it.
Insiders’ Social Media Marketing Paul Dunay
© Copyright • Charlie Cook, MarketingForSuccess, InMind Communications, LLC
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Charlie: Obviously you don’t just have satisfied readers. You have
a track record of working with large companies. Let me
read some of the things you’ve done.
You spent, as I understand it, 20 years in marketing
creating buzz for leading technology companies such as
Google, IBM, Microsoft, BearingPoint and Cisco.
You’re currently the global managing director of
marketing for Avaya. In that, you’re responsible for
services and social marketing. That’s not to mention that
you are the author of Facebook Marketing for Dummies.
I’m not going to take that personally. You’ve been
recently named to B2B Marketing magazine’s top 25
marketers of the year.
Paul: It’s been a heck of a year.
Charlie: You have great credentials and testimonials, which is
even better in my mind. As I mentioned in talking to you
prior to the call, I’m looking forward to having you
transform me and our listeners from neophytes to
knowing enough to be dangerous on Facebook.
Before we get into the meat of today’s conversation, can
you tell us a little bit about your background and how you
got started using Facebook and became an expert in
social media marketing?
Paul: It’s sort of a two-part question. How did I become an
expert in social media or how did I start my trail in
becoming an expert in social media?
I started by feeling like I wasn’t getting the experience I
needed at the firm in which I was working at the time. I
started my own blog and doing my own podcast. I started
Insiders’ Social Media Marketing Paul Dunay
© Copyright • Charlie Cook, MarketingForSuccess, InMind Communications, LLC
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my own RSS feed, and I started doing some video and
hooking all of those things together.
Then I found Facebook. This was sort of before Facebook
even happened. I considered it like a sandbox. I wanted
to get my own experience in those tools. I figured if I
could for myself, I could apply it where I worked. That’s
exactly what happened.
Facebook came about as one of those shiny objects that
came through like Twitter did last year. Potentially,
Foursquare may be having that same kind of effect this
year. There’s going to be new social objects that are
coming down.
But Facebook I really gravitated to. I happened to meet a
buddy of mine who I had went to college with, as many
people do on Facebook. It turns out that he said to me,
“I’m working in New York, and I’m doing some interactive
marketing.” I said, “I’m working in New York, and I’m
doing some interactive marketing.”
The next thing you know, we got back together again
after not seeing each other for 15 years. This book
opportunity came about. He had his own firm and I was
working internally on a client. I said, “Would you want to
share this with me?” and the two of us ending up writing
this book.
Not only did we write a book about Facebook, but the two
of us had reconnected over Facebook, which I think is
kind of cool.
Charlie: That sounds great. Can you give a couple of examples of
how you’ve since been able to use Facebook help either
small or large businesses improve their bottom line?
Insiders’ Social Media Marketing Paul Dunay
© Copyright • Charlie Cook, MarketingForSuccess, InMind Communications, LLC
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Paul: I think Facebook is good for small or large, but you might
want to use them differently depending on where you’re
coming from.
Charlie: Most of our listeners are small business owners so if we
could focus on that, that’d be great.
Paul: I had a feeling, so I was going to focus on them.
All social media is a great equalizer between the small
and large business. We all have the same tools. There is
no difference in the tools that the large company has in
the social space versus the small company. That’s good
news there. Everyone gets to use the same thing and
there’s no difference between it.
How do you use it as a small business to compete with
the large business? That’s why I think it’s a great
equalizer. If you’re given the same tools and you’re able
to use them in the same way, you can essentially appear
as large as you want to be in any of these social networks
or in any form of social media.
For a small business, specifically when it comes to
Facebook, you have an enormous advantage. It’s
wonderful to think about this through the eyes of a local
small business.
If the small business is in a local regional area, let’s say
it’s the New Jersey area or a town within New Jersey, you
can target your advertisement and efforts to just the
people that are within a certain driving distance.
You can target within a 50 mile radius. You could sell
products to people that are only within a 50 mile radius.
People outside of that radius will never see that.
Insiders’ Social Media Marketing Paul Dunay
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That might be a little scary, and it’s certainly very scary
to a large enterprise. For a small enterprise, you want to
be highly targeted, only hit the right people and spend
your dollars completely on the people that are most
people important to you. That’s the best way to do it.
It reminds of that adage, but I forget who said it. It was
something like, “Fifty percent of advertising dollars are
wasted. I just don’t know which half of those dollars are
wasted.” That’s the adage I think Facebook solves. You’re
able to target down to the individual person.
This is how the ad targeting works within Facebook.
You’re able to say, “I want males that are of a certain
age,” if that’s an important factor to you, “in a certain
region, and within a 50 miles radius of this zip code.
“If they say they like sushi and Dave Matthews Band
music, I want to send them a message on their birthday.”
There’s an unbelievable amount of targeting.
You don’t get this with something like Google. Let’s say
you’re a sushi restaurant somewhere in New Jersey. You
type in “sushi restaurant” and you’re playing with the big
boys. You can geo-target all you want out of that, but
you’re going to pay a very expensive price.
In Facebook, you’re able to carve out that niche down to
the individual. It may come down to 1,641 people who
match that particular criteria. They’re male, 45 years old,
who live in this area and say they like sushi and Dave
Matthews music, or something along those lines. Bingo.
You can pull that together and send that person an
advertisement.
Insiders’ Social Media Marketing Paul Dunay
© Copyright • Charlie Cook, MarketingForSuccess, InMind Communications, LLC
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Charlie: Let me interrupt here and ask the neophyte question.
You’ve been talking about what a great vehicle it is for
extremely targeted advertising. That sounds like it has
great advantages.
In my personal experience, my sister or my daughter
uses Facebook to post pictures about their vacation.
Maybe you can explain a little bit about what Facebook
actually is and the range of activities you can do on there.
What are the ones that small business owners should be
focusing on versus the ones people do for their personal
or social needs?
Paul: Let me take you on a tour of Facebook so you get it from
the very top down. I believe what we’re doing may look
superfluous to some people. “I’m reconnecting with my
oldest high-school friend,” or something like that. It
sounds sort of interesting, but not that interesting from a
business perspective.
I’m going to show how you’re going to be able to use this
in the future. What we’re building behind is something
much more powerful. Let me take you on a tour there.
Let’s start at the top. If Facebook was a country, it would
be the third largest country surpassing the United States.
It would be the third largest country behind China and
India.
The user base is up to 400 million people. My mom asks
me the same question. “Why would I do anything in
Facebook?” I say, “If you were a business and I gave you
the opportunity to put an advertisement in the middle of
Times Square where 400 million people are going to see
it, would you take that opportunity?”
Insiders’ Social Media Marketing Paul Dunay
© Copyright • Charlie Cook, MarketingForSuccess, InMind Communications, LLC
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Typically, the answer is yes. That sounds like a good
opportunity. Four hundred million people means one out
of every four people on the internet have a Facebook
account. This also means that one out of every 20 people
on the planet has a Facebook account.
That is a fairly large number. Two-thirds of all internet
users visit this social site, and it’s growing at three times
the rate of the internet itself. That’s another important
stat.
The main growing demographic right now is the 35 years
and older demographic. There’s a significant amount of
traffic from outside of the U.S. There’s 70% from outside
of the U.S.
Then you start to talk about what people are doing on
Facebook. Each month there are two billion photos
uploaded. That makes it the largest photo sharing site,
and it means there 750 photos uploaded per second if
you do the math.
There are 14 million videos uploaded to the site each
month, making it the second largest video-sharing site
behind YouTube.
Eight billion pieces of information are uploaded per
month, like web links, news stories, blog posts, notes,
etc. There are 2.5 million events and 45 million active
user groups on Facebook.
If you net that all out, 175 million out of their 400 million
log in per day and spend between 20 and 45 minutes on
average. If you do the math, that’s 5 to 8 billion minutes
per day.
Insiders’ Social Media Marketing Paul Dunay
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It’s the second largest site on the web according
www.Alexa.com, behind Google and having surpassed
Yahoo at the end of last year. It’s a very large community
of people
Let me take you another level down. What makes
Facebook so powerful is that unlike Google, which works
on search history and an algorithm, Facebook is operating
on real data with real people, names, emails and
thoughts, what they share, their tastes and their news. It
has the ability to redefine how people are going to buy
items and develop and market products.
For example, who cares what some anonymous person
has to say about the latest movie, “Avatar”? If you want
to check that out, you can type “Avatar” into Google and
read anonymous peoples’ reviews.
If I type into Facebook, “I’m going to go see ‘Avatar,’
what do you think?” I’m going to see what my friends say
about “Avatar.” They’re going to tell me whether I should
buy it or not. That’s a little bit on how we might buy.
You saw Honda had developed a car, and they put it out
on Facebook. It was a later-stage thing. They said, “What
do you think of our new car?” and everyone said, “Gross,
we can’t stand it. It’s ugly.” It was unbelievable what
happened to them.
The lesson they learned is that if they’re going to develop
products and want feedback like that, they have to do it
earlier. Here are some designs. Vote on the designs. It’s
very collaborative.
Insiders’ Social Media Marketing Paul Dunay
© Copyright • Charlie Cook, MarketingForSuccess, InMind Communications, LLC
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The term they use is “crowdsourcing,” and I’m trying not
to use that term. That’s the term they use in getting a
crowd to help with the design of something like that.
I’ve already talked a little bit about this. There’s the
chance that marketers have the ability to do behavioral
targeting. That is potentially an opportunity for marketers
that is irresistible, like catnip.
It may make Google look like a Betamax tape in
comparison. You’re just typing in a keyword, and random
people are going to see it. Here you have the ability to
target a specific type of individual.
It’s my opinion that Facebook is one of these once-in-a-
century communication tools that comes around. It’s like
the Gutenberg press, the Marconi radio, film or the
photograph.
It just so happens that all of those things I just
mentioned are on the Facebook platform. They’re on
everybody’s profile or company page for free. It doesn’t
get any more ridiculous than that. You have all of the
inventions that had ever happened before all for the low
price of free.
I would even hazard to say there might be small
businesses that may say, “I don’t need a website. What
do I need a website for and hope that people are going to
walk by my site and hit it? If I’m on Facebook, at least I
know can target people and find them.
“I can upload my email address book, get all of these
people onto my page, and hit them with specific offers. I
don’t have to pay a red cent. Why do I have to pay
hosting fees or a web designer? It’s all there.”
Insiders’ Social Media Marketing Paul Dunay
© Copyright • Charlie Cook, MarketingForSuccess, InMind Communications, LLC
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Facebook is planning on launching what they call
“storefronts.” It’s a great tee-up for today’s conversation,
Charlie. Last week we saw them announce the fact that
they’re going to allow PayPal to integrate with Facebook.
You can pay with PayPal on Facebook. It’s almost
becoming like a mini-eBay.
Maybe a year from now, you and I will look back at this
conversation and say, “Wow! What we didn’t know was
happening behind the scenes on Facebook is going to
affect small businesses on an ongoing basis.”
You see companies that sell a lot of stuff on eBay and
companies that created storefronts on Yahoo. You’re
going to see that happen in Facebook. We’re right at the
precipice of that.
Charlie: It sounds incredible, but I’m also hearing the number 8
billion and thinking, “How does a small business owner
get attention or get known?” What’s the 101 basic thing
that everybody should do and what’s the next level that’s
slightly more sophisticated?
Paul: Yes, what are the 101 and the 201?
Charlie: Maybe before we get to that, you can map out some
things to make sure you don’t do on Facebook.
Paul: In solving some of the 201, the next level, I think I’ll
solve some of that. Let’s take it step by step.
If what we’ve just talked about sounds exciting to you,
there are some basic building blocks that you’re going to
need.
The first thing is that you have to create your own
Facebook page. A page is what’s known as a business
Insiders’ Social Media Marketing Paul Dunay
© Copyright • Charlie Cook, MarketingForSuccess, InMind Communications, LLC
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page. For an individual, like my own personal account or
your own personal account, it’s known as a profile. You
need to create a profile in order to create a page. There is
a way you can actually skirt that, but I don’t recommend
that.
Start by creating your page. It’s like a website. It’s a
fundamental tactic and should be on everybody’s must-
have to-do lists. It’s a little bit like the dot-com land grab
that happened in the ‘90s. You need to secure your
company name in a site like this.
If your name is Joe’s Pizza, hurry up and get out there.
There might be another Joe’s Pizza out there that is
wanting to create their name. Their name would be
Facebook.com/joespizza, as mine is
www.Facebook.com/pauldunay.
Once you have your presence, you’ll need a strategy for
creating content or posting updates. Much like you would
keep your website fresh, you need to keep your Facebook
presence fresh as well. Be sure to get your employees
involved and encourage them to be fans.
Encourage them to drive conversations to this particular
site. The reason is that you want Facebook users to
discover your fan page through their friends.
The beautiful effect of Facebook is that it’s almost
voyeuristic, if you’ll allow me to say that. Your friends can
see what you’re doing on Facebook. If you’re interacting
with Joe’s Pizza’s page or Joe the plumber’s page, you’re
able to see that as a friend of mine. Therefore, you may
say, “That’s interesting to me. Let me check out what
Paul is doing.”
Insiders’ Social Media Marketing Paul Dunay
© Copyright • Charlie Cook, MarketingForSuccess, InMind Communications, LLC
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You can therefore grow your fan base of that page virally.
It has the ability to grow without me ever saying,
“Charlie, come look at Joe’s Pizza page. It’s actually
pretty cool. Why don’t you sign up?”
You can do it explicitly, but you can also do it implicitly.
Charlie: Let’s say someone has their Facebook profile up and
they’re thinking, “I want to attract people and have
friends of friends on Facebook following me.” What’s the
best content they should be putting up to do that?
Paul: I don’t think there is bad content to put up there. Any
content is good content should be a reasonable rule. I
would say there’s the ability to create more social kinds of
content that will travel more through Facebook.
Those are typically tips, like the four things to do when
you’re making a pizza or the five things not to do if you’re
fixing your toilets, or something along those lines if you’re
Joe the plumber. You can use those things.
People are typically interested in any sort of top-10 lists
or any good sharable content, not five reasons to buy
from Joe’s Pizza or Joe the plumber. That’s not going to
have a good viral effect.
Let me go into the definition of the viral effect for a
second. The viral effect is defined as when N is greater
than one. If I send it just to you, that’s N equal to one.
That’s not going to create a viral effect. If I decide to
send it to you and you decide not to send it anybody, it
dies there.
If N is greater than one, like if I share it with my wife and
friend from high school and off it goes, then N is equal to
Insiders’ Social Media Marketing Paul Dunay
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two. Therefore, it can start to take off. It’s almost like
that Breck commercial. I’m kind of dating myself. It said
they told two friends and so on and so on. That’s the
definition of that.
What could the creation of good content be? It could be a
photo, video, PowerPoint presentation, blog post, or
micro-blog post like Twitter posts if you’re doing any of
those things. It could be something you share on
Delicious, like a bookmark, or on any of those services
like Digg, etc.
Anything you can find that’s relevant to your particular
businesses should be syndicated through your Facebook
page. It’s all available for you there. It’s free content that
you’re posting and keeping your page constantly relevant
which is good.
That’s Step 1. Step 2 is to throw an event. A Facebook
event is a great way to get people together virtually or in
person to support your local business. It doesn’t need to
be an event that’s on Facebook. People typically get this
sort of mixed up.
If you’re throwing a party at your local store, like a
launch party or you’re having a designer come in to show
their jewelry, clothing or something like that, why not list
it on Facebook as well?
It’s a way of inviting not just people that are fans of your
page, but the friends of the fans of your page.
If you have 100 people who are friends and they have
100 people that they’re friends with, that’s 10,000 people
you’re inviting to your event.
Insiders’ Social Media Marketing Paul Dunay
© Copyright • Charlie Cook, MarketingForSuccess, InMind Communications, LLC
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That’s pretty cool. It’s very economical. Of course, it’s
free. You’re getting the word out beyond your normal in-
house marketing list and your friends of your fan page. I
would absolutely do that as a matter of course. Don’t
forget to do that.
Also, don’t forget to follow up after the event. Tell people
about it, post photos about it and make people envious
that they didn’t go and they should listen to you next
time.
Step 3 is to potentially do some advertising like we were
just talking about that the recommendation had in there.
The number of Facebook advertisers has tripled in 2009. I
would expect that to quadruple, if not more, in 2010.
You’ll find that Facebook advertising is unlike any other
advertising experience you’ve ever had. It’s mainly
because of what we were talking about as far as by
location, age, sex, keywords, education and even by
specific work places.
You can say you only want people at FedEx to get this
message. You want it to be delivered on their birthday.
You can target it down.
It’s very much like any other online advertising that
you’ve purchased. It comes in cost-per-click or cost-per-
thousand. It’s CPC or CPM. I recommend CPC because it’s
the most cost effective. You only get people that come to
your page if they click through and that’s exactly what
you want to have happening.
The last thing I would recommend is that maybe there’s
an application that you want to create. You can create a
specific tab on your page that would either have
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something like a video or demo. You can take it up a level
to create a Facebook application that’s engaging to the
Facebook community.
A good example of this that I thought was very cool was
that FedEx had created a Facebook FedEx box. I could
send you, Charlie, a picture of my skiing vacation in Utah
in a FedEx box.
You’d get a message that said, “Paul Dunay just sent you
a FedEx box in your Facebook account.” You’d think,
“What? Let me go open my FedEx box,” and you’d find
this picture. You could send a bunch of things. You could
send documents or videos, but in order to do that you
had to download the application.
What they found was that out of the people who
downloaded it, within the first 72 hours, 300,000 people
had already sent another grouping of boxes out. The
pass-along rate was fantastic and the uninstall rate was
at 10%. It was a very low uninstall rate. People kept this
around. It was a way of getting someone’s attention, and
it was very in brand.
I think there are some really cool ways to engage the
audience with a potential brand out there. You see a lot of
small businesses like Einstein Bros. Bagels and places like
this giving away a free sample.
That’s another great way to do it. “Become a fan of my
page, and you get to download this coupon and get a free
sample.” Texas Pete Hot Sauce is another place that did a
very similar thing. “Send it in and get a free sample if you
become a member of my page.”
Insiders’ Social Media Marketing Paul Dunay
© Copyright • Charlie Cook, MarketingForSuccess, InMind Communications, LLC
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People love free stuff. Think free stuff, events,
applications, advertising and content wherever you can to
fill in the gaps.
Charlie: Let me backtrack. I understand the advertising sounds
like if you’re going to spend money on pay-per-click
advertising, it’s exciting and a better situation and deal
than Google where you can get a good click-through rate
but conversions can drop off.
Hopefully with a much more targeted audience, it should
increase your return on your investment and advertising.
It seems like one of the keys in terms of using Facebook
is to try to have a huge number of friends or followers.
Paul: Yes, it’s to build that list. You want to build it before you
need it, basically.
Charlie: Everybody probably needs it yesterday.
Paul: Yes, that’s internet time.
Charlie: The strategy is to go to work, start to build it, and
eventually hopefully be able to leverage it. Can you walk
people through the hands-on? They have 25 or 50
followers. How do they leverage that to hopefully grow to
thousands, and how quickly can they do it?
Paul: There are plenty of free ways to do it outside of
advertising. You’ll see that Facebook is doing a very good
job of this lately. They put in, “Advertise your page. Click
here.”
There are plenty of other ways to do it for free outside of
the paid advertising. One way is to leverage the Facebook
content in some of your traditional channels. I typically
see a company that has a newsletter or website and they
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don’t cross promote the other property. Definitely
mention that you have a Facebook page. Say, “Sign up on
Facebook,” on your website.
Why not take content from your Facebook page and make
a section on your home page that says, “Heard on
Facebook.” The people who have done that have reported
that it is the hottest, most clicked on section of any part
of their home page when they have a portal to what’s
going on in Facebook.
Think about that. It’s another way to get people to sign
up for your page. You’re taking something that you
already have and making it work harder. I like that one.
Charlie: Basically, if you have a “Heard on Facebook” link on your
home page or somewhere on your blog, once people click
on that, then before they can view your Facebook page
they need to sign up as a friend or follower.
Paul: They don’t need to sign up in order to see it. By the way,
we missed a step here and we should backtrack for it.
Pages are public. That’s good and bad. First is that
anybody can see it, meaning your competitors. You don’t
typically put stuff on your website or Facebook page that
you wouldn’t want your competitors to see anyway, so it’s
not a big problem.
Also, you get good search engine optimization. That’s
known as SEO. It could be better. It’s getting better, but
keep in mind that since it is public, it does get indexed by
the search engines. It will naturally appear as another
result when someone does a search for your company
name. That’s a good piece of the puzzle.
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The mechanic is that you’re not charging them to see it,
but if they are engaged with the content they will most
likely sign up. Typically, if it’s someone who’s already on
your website, they may not be aware that you have a
Facebook page. They might say, “Let me follow these
guys and see what they’re doing.”
That’s one good way of leveraging it. Another good way is
to take the Facebook community you’re building and
announce that you’re going to have a promotion.
Let’s say you’re sending out a newsletter. Why not let
them know? “I’m about to send out my newsletter. Sign
up!” Why not prime the pump?
Publish your status update the day before your newsletter
goes out and remind people that they need to sign up if
they’re not on your list. Try to get some cross promotion
of these channels. Leverage Facebook to get that cross
promotion through other channels.
Another way I recommend is to make your existing
collateral work harder. Of course, put in that thing about
Facebook at the end of all your PDFs or collaterals.
Typically, I also see people do videos and there’s no call
to action. There’s no, “Catch us on Facebook,” or “See us
on Twitter.” You need to start to make this collateral work
harder for you.
I can’t tell you how many times I see a video that ends,
and it’s just over. There’s nothing. You had me for three
and a half minutes. You worked hard to get me to come
there and you never told me what to do.
Insiders’ Social Media Marketing Paul Dunay
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There are very viral elements that could end up reaching
hundreds or even thousands of potential prospects. Why
not give them a way to get more information? Be sure to
do that.
Another idea I like is why not post the story on your
Facebook page about a customer complaint you were able
to solve? We did that. We posted one where we were able
to solve a customer complaint that came in via Twitter.
We solved it in 24 hours. We told the whole story on
Facebook.
It gave them a reason to come to the page. It came them
a cool story. People say, “I want that guy to work on my
account.”
It can be a little series of real-world examples. You don’t
have to do it every day. Maybe you say, “On the first
Thursday of the month,” or “On the first day of the
month,” or “On the 15th of the month, we’ll tell you the
latest kick-ass story,” of something like the wonderful
reference that you read from me. You can put one of
those out once a month. You build your Facebook base in
a big way.
The other classic way of doing it is what I like to call my
formula. It’s to join and then link. You want to get more
people interested in you. Why not start reaching out to
other people? Get interested in other people’s
conversations.
You can do that using the Facebook platform. You can go
out to individual groups and listen to the conversations
first. Don’t run up to them and hand them your business
card. That’s the social equivalent of saying, “Come join
my page right now!”
Insiders’ Social Media Marketing Paul Dunay
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What you want to do is listen to the conversation, add
some content, set yourself up as an expert on whatever
the topic is, and then start to draw them to your page.
You say, “Have you seen my blog post about this and
that?”
Think of it a little like a cocktail party where you want to
engage with somebody that you don’t know in a very
informal way. You end up listening to the conversation,
and then you start adding to the conversation. Eventually
you say, “By the way, I work at XYZ. Why don’t you come
visit me?”
Charlie: Here’s the simplest way for those people who haven’t
done it to find groups. There’s a listing down the side,
depending on the page you’re on, that lists groups. You
can also just type in your topic area and search for it.
Paul: That’s correct. There are two ways of doing it, and you
named both of them.
You can also look at groups that your friends belong to. If
you really admire someone in the industry, see what
groups they’re involved in and maybe you want to join
them as well. It’s the same way as you would join
Toastmasters or some other group. You heard that your
friend was taking that course and doing a great job with
it.
Charlie: You’ve shared a lot of ideas. Many of them sound
awesome in terms of things that would be very helpful.
But the one thing I hear people say is, “How much time
should I spend on Facebook?” Is it 10, 20, 30 or 40 hours
a week? What’s a realistic plan for getting started with
Facebook?
Insiders’ Social Media Marketing Paul Dunay
© Copyright • Charlie Cook, MarketingForSuccess, InMind Communications, LLC
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Paul: The book is titled Facebook Marketing for Dummies, and
I’ve seen a new book that just came out, Facebook Marketing: An Hour a Day. I’d say it’s half an hour a day
to start out.
As a business owner, you’ll sit down in the morning with
some coffee to answer some emails. Put a plug in and
say, “I’ll give it half an hour. From 8:30 a.m. to 9:00 a.m.
before we open, I’ll work the Facebook channel a little.”
I think you could do some really good work in half an
hour a day just connecting to and friending people,
listening to some conversations, and adding and
uploading content and pictures. You may find a moment
when you need to spend more, but I think a minimum of
a half hour a day would be a very good benchmark.
I know it’s more time out of everybody’s already busy
schedule, but I think the benefits outweigh that of any
other media. Where can you talk with 400 million
potential customers directly on a daily basis? I’m not sure
I can find another place. It’s certainly not your website,
which is a much more random way of going about it.
Charlie: One person I was talking to about social media came up
with an analogy that I think is good. I want to see if we
can extend it a little.
In this day and age, everybody is online and on their
mobile phone. They’re all over the world. You’re trying to
reach out to customers in all sorts of places you’ll never
actually be.
You can’t just walk down to the general store and sit on
the bench in front to meet with the people who will
potentially buy from you. You can’t walk down to the
Insiders’ Social Media Marketing Paul Dunay
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water cooler in your building and hope to find all the
people you’d like to work with.
Social media marketing is akin to a better town square or
water cooler. What are your thoughts on that?
Paul: I like it a lot. I’ll tell you why. Today I solved a major
customer issue using social media. I had a Twitter inquiry
over the weekend where this person said, “I’m having a
problem with my ABC 123. Can you help?”
I couldn’t help because I really didn’t know much about it,
but I knew who could help. I got that person involved
with them first thing Monday morning. We resolved the
issue and I got a note from him saying, “I took care of
him. Everything is set. The guy is very happy”
This person was in Ireland, of all places. It’s not that it’s a
bad place, but you never know where these things are
coming from. It’s fantastic. He’ll probably appear on our
Facebook page of success stories on an ongoing basis.
Someone was potentially negative and having a very
negative experience because their thing wasn’t working
and we made it a positive experience. What’s the ROI on
that?
That’s the other question we haven’t really touched on
yet. What’s the ROI on talking to someone who could be
easily off the reservation?
Someone could come by and say, “What are you dealing
with them for? Why don’t you deal with this other
company over here?” and bingo, I’ve lost a customer. We
were able to save that customer in 24 to 36 hours’ time.
What’s the ROI on that?
Insiders’ Social Media Marketing Paul Dunay
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If I save two or three dozen customers every year, what’s
the cost of acquiring a new customer? Is it $1,000 or
maybe more? Is it $10,000? In a technology firm, it’s not
that uncommon. Ten thousand times 36 is pretty good
money. It’s $360,000. A half-hour investment of time is a
pretty low investment. Think about it from that
perspective.
Charlie: That’s good advice. One thing we haven’t talked about is
that there are a whole host of other things that people
call social media marketing. There’s Twitter and LinkedIn.
Some people consider YouTube a social media marketing
tool. There are blogs.
If I was going to pick one to spend my time on, why
should it be Facebook? It sounds like you’re a Facebook
fan. Why is Facebook better than some of the other
alternatives?
Paul: It has all of the things that you mentioned built in. You
have the blog, which is called “Notes.” You have Twitter,
which is the status update. You have the ability to put up
PowerPoint presentations, videos or photos, which is
SlideShare, YouTube, Flickr or any of those things.
All those forms of social media are available on the
Facebook platform, again for free. They’re for free on the
other ones. That’s a parity issue.
It’s not a differentiating factor for Facebook, but it’s all on
the same individual platform rather than having a channel
for this and a channel for that. I have a blog over here, a
YouTube account over there and a Twitter account over
here. They’re all different, and they don’t really talk to
each other.
Insiders’ Social Media Marketing Paul Dunay
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This one is one where it’s all in the same place. Someone
doesn’t necessarily need to subscribe to all of them. They
can just subscribe to your Facebook page.
I think the efficiency that you get out of the Facebook
platform is really what’s attractive, especially if you don’t
have those things. By the way, if you’re thinking, “I
already have a Twitter account. I have a YouTube
account,” you can also sew them together with Facebook.
You can import those individual feeds into your Facebook
account. You’re not locked out because you started early
and were an early adopter. That’s not a negative. You can
turn it into a positive and import all of those things onto
your Facebook page.
Charlie: The other advantage is for people who think, “I need to
build a website. How will I do that? I need to hire a
webmaster. I need to master the content management
program.”
Facebook has already done that. You don’t need to know
it. You just need to log on and use the tools they’ve
developed to manage your own content.
Paul: That’s correct. It’s a little like the early days with the web
when they had GeoCities. They had template ties and
things like that. Think about it from that perspective.
Then we all moved into this massive world where
everyone needed to have servers, rack-mounts for
servers and stuff like that. If you look at technology
trends, I think we’re moving into a place where they’re
talking about everything being in the cloud. Everything is
cloud this and cloud computing that.
Insiders’ Social Media Marketing Paul Dunay
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The whole Facebook think is essentially your website in a
cloud. You’re not hosting it. It’s up there and people are
able to access it. I think there’s a great way of using the
Facebook platform, and the price can’t be better. You
can’t really beat free.
Charlie: Absolutely. What can go wrong? Are there any threats to
Facebook? Is there anything people should be concerned
about?
Paul: That’s a really good question. The two most often cited
questions I get on that particular topic are, “What
happens if I open up my Facebook account and somebody
says something negative?”
Let’s get this one out of the way because it’s a fairly easy
one. You know when you open the tap to some water,
maybe a hose outside, and it comes out a little dirty?
That’s kind of way I think some accounts tend to start up.
It’s not necessarily on Facebook, but more major, larger
enterprises may have some pent-up negative or ill will
about the company.
Maybe the large size of the company dictates how much
ill will is up there, but sometimes there are people out
there who have something negative to say. They may say
it on your page.
That’s great. Handle it. Take it like a man. Face it and
say, “This was the situation. I hear what you’re saying.
We’ve done our best to rectify it and we plan to never let
it happen again.” Say something along those lines.
There are some great case studies of how people have
handled it. It was Tylenol years ago and Motrin most
recently. Think about it from that perspective.
Insiders’ Social Media Marketing Paul Dunay
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Don’t fear it. That’s not a good excuse. I won’t accept
that excuse from anyone listening to this program, so
don’t let it be your excuse. Make sure that you open the
page and work through whatever those relationships are.
Then you’ll find it’s like the tap water. It will start to run
clean.
People won’t say things negative on your page to your
face if they know you’re there, listening, engaged and
trying hard. You’re transparent. I think the days of
companies being guarded are over and I know you may
have heard that before.
This is called social media. You’re not social today and
then on Fridays you’re antisocial. That can’t happen.
You’ll be social for the rest of your life. It’s over. The
horse is out of the barn. All these horses are out of the
barn. We’re going to stay like this, so you may as well get
in tune with it. You’ll need to get that negative, dirty
water out.
There is a downside with Facebook. They could essentially
turn your page off. People can report you. Understand
that if people are posting pornography or it’s some radical
hate group, they can turn on those pages. They reserve
the right to do that.
No companies I know have had this happen to them, but
it’s just good to be aware of that it is a possibility.
Obviously, you must have been doing something for them
to that.
The policy is for things like hate groups, pornography and
bad language etc. Keep that in mind if you’re planning on
selling pornography on your site. It may not be a great
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place to have a site. Other than that I’d say you’re pretty
well off.
Charlie: Typical small business owners try to wear 80 million hats
at the same time and try to do too much in a week. One
of the questions I can hear them asking is, “Sounds
great. Can I outsource this?” What’s your comment on
that?
Paul: Yes, actually you can. There are a number of agencies. I
am not one of them, so I’m not pitching anything. I
certainly can point you to a number of agencies.
There’s www.BuddyMedia.com. My friends over there are
doing a bang-up job. There’s also
www.AboutFaceDigital.com. They’re doing these services
for individuals.
Then of course there is a host of people who are doing it
individually. There’s Mari Smith. Justin is also out there
doing it as well. He’s going to kill me for not remembering
his last name.
There are a number of ways to do it. People who are also
doing some of your website type stuff may also be doing
it. I’d go with someone who has experience. Don’t be the
first person on their list. Be the 12th or the 20th,
especially if you’re a small business. You want to
outsource it all to an individual.
Charlie: We’re closing in on our time and I have a couple more
questions I want to get to. One is that obviously you have
a great book called Facebook Marketing for Dummies.
How has that been selling?
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Paul: We sold 4,500 copies before it actually shipped. The book
shipped on October 26 and by the end of November,
within the first 30 days, we’d sold 7,500 copies. It’s
already on its third printing, which means we’re
somewhere in the stratosphere of 20,000 copies sold.
The single highest selling day ever was New Year’s Day,
1/1/2010. Why? My opinion is that people said, “My
resolution this year is to learn about Facebook.”
They looked on Amazon or Barnes & Noble, where the
book is available and bought it off of that site on the first
day of the year. That was the highest grossing day for us
and hasn’t been eclipsed yet. Thank you to anyone who
bought it.
I thought it was cool that people were probably thinking
that thought. I think it was a very direct correlation
between what people were thinking. Why else would
someone buy it on New Year’s Day?
Charlie: Let me ask you an obvious question. You have a book on
Facebook. How did you use Facebook to promote your
book on Facebook?
Paul: We have a Facebook page to promote it. It’s called
“Facebook for Business.” Facebook coincidentally wouldn’t
let me have the page called “Facebook Marketing for
Dummies.” They did not like that page.
Charlie: They thought it was offensive.
Paul: It uses their trademark so they reserve the right of use
when the trademark is involved. They let me have
“Facebook for Business.” I appealed to them. I said, “My
Insiders’ Social Media Marketing Paul Dunay
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book is about this.” They said, “How about ‘Facebook for
Business.’ It’s shorter.”
I’ve since created
www.Facebook.com/fbmarketingfordummies. You can get
there through a circuitous route.
What we did was give away free chapters and ebooks
packaged as “Things that didn’t make the book.” We put
out three ebooks on it. We solved customer issues on
there.
We did a contest. “Tell us the best use for Facebook you
have and maybe it will make it into the book.” We did a
bunch of stuff out there. It definitely had a lot of keen
interest right around the time we launched. It’s cooled
out a little since then, and as you know, we’re planning
another book, Facebook Advertising for Dummies.
Back in 2001 I was playing with a funny thing called
Google AdWords, which was the original keyword
interface. I was buying words like “globalization” and
“ecommerce” for 25 cents and owning those words. I was
putting my thought leadership papers out there, driving
them down, getting people to sign up and creating leads
out of that. To do that for 25 cents cost per click was
unbelievable.
I’m seeing the same thing happening right now on
Facebook and thinking, “I’ve seen this story before. Cost-
per-click prices will go up.”
I would argue that the advertising machine Facebook
created is better than the advertising machine that
Google created. Although I’d never cancel my Google
AdWords. I still love them. I mean no disrespect to
Insiders’ Social Media Marketing Paul Dunay
© Copyright • Charlie Cook, MarketingForSuccess, InMind Communications, LLC
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Google, but I think the targeting capability is better in the
Facebook account. When people get hip to that, it will be
as big as Google is currently. Google, watch out. There’s
a competitor on your tail.
Charlie: If you’re going to get into Facebook advertising, it sounds
like this is the time to do it before prices start to go up
with competitive bidding on words.
Paul: I couldn’t agree more. I’m taking advantage of it myself.
I recommend it to everybody.
The reason the book is due is because we touch on
advertising, but it’s a big piece of Facebook. It’s their
engine. It’s their revenue-generation machine. In the
same way that Dummies has Google AdWords for Dummies, they need a Facebook Advertising for Dummies. I told that to Wiley and they said, “We agree.
Do it.” I thought, “Whoa! I didn’t expect that one.”
Charlie: When are you hoping to have this book out?
Paul: We’re already on the third chapter, so I’d say probably at
the end of the summer, in September.
Charlie: For people who can’t wait, will you provide sneak
previews?
Paul: Yes, in fact I’m talking about it all the time on my
personal Facebook page. We’ll be talking about it on the
Facebook for Business page and certainly on my blog,
www.PaulDunay.com. Stay tuned.
As I learn more about this platform and as they advance
it even more, you’ll be the first to know.
Insiders’ Social Media Marketing Paul Dunay
© Copyright • Charlie Cook, MarketingForSuccess, InMind Communications, LLC
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Charlie: Maybe you could just run through the ways people can
stay in touch with you and follow the discussion and what
you’re revealing about Facebook Advertising for Dummies. What is the best way to do that?
Paul: The best way to do that is at www.PaulDunay.com. That’s
the first place to get me. Certainly there’s
www.Twitter.com/pauldunay and www.Facebook.com.
You can type in “Facebook for business” and you’ll get
there as well.
Charlie: That’s great. The books sound wonderful and I can’t wait
to get Facebook Advertising for Dummies. Obviously
you’re not spending your whole time just writing those
books, although it sounds like a worthwhile endeavor if
that was what you were doing. What are the other
products and services you provide?
Paul: I work as the services and social media lead for Avaya,
which is a global business communications firm. We’re
the number-one choice in contact centers. We’re arguably
the number-one and number-two choice in unified
communications, which is business communications.
If businesses look down at their desktop phone and it
says “Avaya” on the caller ID, that’s what we do. That’s a
piece of the puzzle I’m working with all the time.
If you ask my wife what I was doing all weekend, she
would tell you that I was writing Facebook Advertising for Dummies. They were watching the Olympics, and I was
writing the book.
Charlie: We all appreciate your efforts to explain it and make it
clear to us neophytes so we can all leverage it, as it
sounds you’re leveraging it for your business.
Insiders’ Social Media Marketing Paul Dunay
© Copyright • Charlie Cook, MarketingForSuccess, InMind Communications, LLC
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I greatly appreciate you taking the time to join us today.
I’m sure our listeners will find great value in this if they
put even a few of the ideas you’ve shared into action.
Thanks again for joining us.
Paul: Thank you for having me.
Do you want to be truly successful? Find out what works and take
action. Put these social media marketing ideas to use to help more
people get to know you, trust you, and want to do business with you.
Make sure to listen to the rest of the interviews in the Insiders Social
Media Telesummit series to discover what every business owner should
know about social media marketing.
Insiders’ Social Media Marketing Paul Dunay
© Copyright • Charlie Cook, MarketingForSuccess, InMind Communications, LLC
33
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