Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy...

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Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system Giorgio Sabbadini Bankok June 2004

Transcript of Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy...

Page 1: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

Giorgio Sabbadini

Bankok June 2004

Page 2: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

APPLICATION POSSIBILITIES

OF THE WATERBASED EPOXY SYSTEMS

INDUSTRIAL AND CIVIL ENGINEERING FIELDS

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

Page 3: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

• Legislation • limitation of Volatile Organic Compounds (solvents, amines,reaktiv thinners etc.)

• health protection/-hygienics• products with lower health risk for workers (i. e. MAK-values)

• Saftey • limitation of flamebility-/explosion danger by unflammablecoatings

Reasons to switch to water based systems

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•Epoxy resins Semi solid epoxides (oligomers) or liquid epoxy resin (high solid system ) Solid epoxy resin in emulsion ( water based system)•Hardner Switch to solvent free amino and polyamide based hardner (high solid system Switch to water based epoxy curing agent ( water based system)

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

How to achieve environmently friendly epoxy systems

Page 5: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

application solvent High - Solid Aqueous

Pot life > 8 h ca. 1 h 8 h Dust free < 1 h > 3 h 1 h

Dry trough > 15 h > 15 h > 15 h spraying possible partly Possible

Brush/roller possible possible possible viscosity < 100 mPas > 500 mPas < 100 mPas

odor strong strong low cleaning With solvents With solvents With water

temperature 5 - 40° C 5 - 40° C 10 - 35° C humidity < 90 < 90 < 80

Wet substrate Not always possible

Not always possible

possible

Solvent content 40 - 55 % < 5 % < 5 %

Page 6: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

H i g h - S o l i d A q u e o u s H e a v y d u t y

p o s s i b l e

s h o r t p o t - l i f e s l o w d r y i n g

V e r y g o o d L o n g p o t - l i f e Q u i c k d r y i n g

r e p a i r p o s s i b l e V e r y g o o d Q u i c k d r y i n g

i n d u s t r i a l N o t

r e c o m m e n d e d T h i c k n e s s

p r o b l e m

M e t a l p l a s t i c

h i g h t h i c k n e s s l o w t h i c k n e s s

c o n c r e t e V e r y g o o d

C h e m i c a l r e s i s t a n t

F l o o r i n g s H i g h t h i c k n e s s

V e r y g o o d C h e m i c a l r e s i s t a n t

f l o o r i n g s h i g h t h i c k n e s s u p t o

2 m m o n w e t c o n c r e t e

C h e m i c a l r e s i s t a n t

O n e c o a t M u l t i p l e l a y e r s

Page 7: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system Active

Content (%)Viscosity (mPa.s/25

°C)

HEW Colour (Gardner)

Density (g/ml/25 °C)

Waterpoxy 1422 54 1000 - n. m. n.d.

Waterpoxy 1455 56 1000 - n. m. 1,10

Waterpoxy 603 50 45000 190 12 1,09

Waterpoxy I 654 70 17000 170 7 n.d.

Waterpoxy 751 60 12000 225 4 n.d.

Waterpoxy 755 60 30000 180 5 n.d.

Waterpoxy 760 60 10000 190 8 n.d

Page 8: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

primer coating self levelling epoxy cement

Air product Anquamine 401 X X X Waterpoxy I 654Anquamine 701 X X Wateroxy 751 /Waterpoxy 760Epilink 360 X X Waterpoxy 603

UPPC W 803 X X X X Waterpoxy 751 / Waterpoxy 760

Cognis proposalEnd useCompetitor Product

Competitors situation civil engineering

Page 9: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

primer top cote

Air product Anquamine 701 X X Waterpoxy 751/ Waterpoxy 755Eoilink 360 X Waterpoxy 603Anquamine 456 X Waterpoxy 801

UCB Beckopox 2188 X Waterpoxy 751/waterpoxy 755

Product Cognis proposalEnd useCompetitor

Competitors situation industrial application – Hardners -

Page 10: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

primer top cote

UCB Beckopox EP 384w/53AMP X X Waterpoxy 1422Beckopox 2380w/58WA X X Waterpoxy 1455

Resolution Epirez 3522-W-60 X X Waterpoxy 1422

Competitor Product End use Cognis proposal

Competitors situation industrial application – Resin -

Page 11: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

Page 12: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

When can we suggest to use a water based epoxy system ?

A good sealing properties on concrete are needed

For primer, coating or a self levelling with good adhesion retention on concrete where water is coming from the ground

We need to clean the equipment with water

When we need a ecologically friendly application

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy systemCivil engineering

Page 13: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

Waterpoxy 751, 755,760Concrete primer, coatings and self levelling floring

Waterpoxy 603 Primer and top cote

EpoxyCuringAgents

Waterpoxy I 654Top cote and epoxy ciment

Page 14: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

Waterpoxy® 751 - 60 % in H2O, free amine < 1

very low toxicity, ECC labeling: Xi, R 41

very high versatility and easy handling

primer, coatings,

self levelling and epoxy-cement-system

good chemical resistance

low yellowing

visible end of pot-life (with liquid epoxy resin)

Page 15: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

SELF LEVELLING FLOORING I 74/E 95 W .751/E 30 Filler/binder ratio common 1,8 : 1 3 : 1 Possible up to 3 : 1 up to 7 : 1 Thickness 2 - 4 mm 1 - 1,5 mm Surface appearance glossy semiglossy/m at (glossmeter 60° angle) 70 - 80 10 - 20 W orkability ("open time") 45 - 60' 20-30' Tack-free time 6 - 8 hrs 3 - 4 hrs W alkability 24 hrs 24 hrs Shore D hardness (full curing) 80 80 Compressive strength (full curing) 50 N/mm 2 30 N/mm 2

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

Page 16: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Aggressive I 74/E 95 W.751/E 30

Sulphuric, hydrochloric acid 10% 38 25

Acetic acid 10% 6 11

Xylene 25 28

Ethanol 20 17

Labelling C Xi

Free amine content > 10% < 1%

Tools cleaning Solvent water

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

Page 17: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Water based epoxy flooring coating CA/17 –E 95 WP 751 – E 30 Pot life hrs 0,45 2 – 2,5 Walkability time hrs 16 - 24 16 – 24 Full cure days 7 7 Buchholz hardness 15 days 25°C 91 91 Gloss development 60° 60 -70 25 - 30 VOC gr/kg == 8 Abrasion resitance mg weight 70 - 80 130 (calibrase CS 17 1000 cycle 1000 gr)

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

Page 18: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

Waterpoxy® 755 - 60 % in H2O, free amine < 1 %

raw materials are listed in the ECC positive list for food contact

high water thinnability

fast drying and curing speed even at low temperature

good chemical resistance

visible end of pot-life (with liquid epoxy resin)

low yellowing

Page 19: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

TimeWaterpoxy 751 Waterpoxy 755 Competitor

1 day -- -- --3 days -- 9 87 days 4 24 2015 days 8 29 25

Product

Compressive strength development at 8°C

Compressive strength development at 20°CTime

Waterpoxy 751 Waterpoxy 755 Competitor

1 day 1 4,5 53 days 9 17 177 days 18 28 2915 days 22 31 35

Product

Page 20: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

Waterpoxy® 760 - 60 % in H2O, free amine < 1 %

no shrinkage at high thickness application

high water thinnability

fast drying and curing speed even at low temperature

good chemical resistance

visible end of pot-life (with liquid epoxy resin)

low yellowing

Page 21: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

0,00 1,00 2,00 3,00 4,00 5,00 6,00 7,00 8,00

WP 751

7707-197

8085-003

8058-066

8058-071

prod

ucts

total-shrinkage [L+R, mm]

lateral shrinkage Rialto

Page 22: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

6 mm thicness

Page 23: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Product Resistence to the alcali migration

Alcali migration after drying

Waterpoxy 1455 + 751 good no migration

Vinyl acrilic latex slight slight seeding

Solvent based acrylic migration - yellowing slight seeding

Acrylic latex migration seeding

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

Comparison alcali migration resistance

Page 24: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

Properties/ primer

Solvent based

Solvent free Water based –liquid

epoxy resin

Water based solid epoxy

resin

Pot life hrs 24 15 – 20 min 2 6 – 8

Curing time 24 24 24 24

Overcoatability 18 - 24 24 2 - 48 2 -48

Page 25: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

Waterpoxy® 603 50% in H2O

very good emulsifying power

suitable for primers and top coats

Waterpoxy® I 654 70% in H2O

very good emulsifying power

high gloss

good chemical resistance

suitable for primers, top coats and epoxy-cement

Page 26: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

Page 27: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Marine Coatings Industrial maintenance General Industry

Anticorrosion coatingsProduction equipment

High performance coatings

MachineryConstruction equipmentAgricultural machinery

Main market for solvent and high solid epoxy coatings

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

Page 28: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Resin/ Properties Alkyds Acrylates

Urethanes Polyester Urethanes Epoxies

Chemical resistance

Corrosion resistance

Film hardness

Gloss retension

maintenance

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

Page 29: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Waterbased epoxy system match the requirements of:

Industrial maintenace market

Genaral industry market

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

Page 30: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

When can we suggest to use a water based epoxy system ?

limitation of Volatile Organic Compounds is required

We need to clean the equipment with water

When we need a ecologically friendly application

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy systemProtective coating

Page 31: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

Waterpoxy 751, 755Anticorrosive primer and top cote

Waterpoxy 801Fast drying and sandable anticorrosive primer

PolymerCuringAgents

Page 32: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

SolidEpoxyResinEmulsions

Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer

Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote

Page 33: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

Waterpoxy 801 - 60% in H2O / PM 35:5

low toxicity

very fast drying – replacement of solvent systems

excellent corrosion protection

long pot life, 5 – 6 h

primer application

Page 34: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

Waterpoxy® 1455 56 % in H2O / Ethoxypropanol 37:7

pigment wettability

fast tack free time

long pot-life (if cured with Waterpoxy® 751)

pot-life exceeding the normal working day

tack free time comparable with solvent based systems

(with Waterpoxy® 751)

very good corrosion resistance

Page 35: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

Waterpoxy® 1422 54% in H2O / Ethoxypropanol 36:10

good pigment wettability

very fast tack free time

long pot-life (if cured with Waterpoxy® 751; app. 5 h)

visible end of pot-life

higher pendulum-hardness in high built-films

very good abrasion resistance

very good corrosion resistance

Page 36: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Water based anticorrosive primer Versamid 115 WP 1455 – WP 751 Chemres E 50 Pot life hrs > 8 > 8 Salt spray resistance hrs 600 400 Full cure days 7 7 Buchholz hardness 15 days 25°C 77 77 Overcoatability 18 - 24 2 - 48 VOC gr/kg > 30 3

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

Page 37: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

Page 38: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Gloss1 day 7710 days 45

Buchholz hardness

1 day 502 days 524 days 557 days 5910 days 63 71

Properties

50636767

4038

WP 1422 + WP 751 WP 1422 + WP 801

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

Waterpoxy 751 vs Waterpoxy 801 in combination with Waterpoxy 1422

Page 39: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

Waterpoxy 1422 100 cycle Waterpoxy 1455 100 cycle

Page 40: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Water based top cote Versamid 225 WP 1422 – WP 751 Chemres E 50 WP 755 Pot life hrs > 8 > 8 Gloss 60° 90 80 Full cure days 7 7 Buchholz hardness 15 days 25°C 77 67 VOC gr/kg > 30 3

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

Page 41: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

product Chemical aggressive / time Versamid

115/Chemres E 50 XWaterpoxy 751 / Waterpoxy 1455 Versamid AE 2350 XD

H2SO4 10 % 10 days 2,5 2,5 3 Acetic Acid 10 % 10 days 1 1 3 Lactic acid 10 days 1 1 3 Formaldeydhe 10 % 10 days 2,5 2 3 NaClO 5,5 % 10 days 3 3 3 NaOH 5,5 % 10 days 3 3 3

WATERPOXY 751 CHEMICAL RESISTANCE IN COMBINATION WITH SOLID EPOXY RESIN EEW 500

Page 42: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy systemproduct

Chemical aggressive / time Versamid 115/Chemres E 50 X

Waterpoxy 751 / Waterpoxy 1455 Versamid AE 2350 XD

Ethanol 15% 10 days 3 3 3 Ethanol 95% 10 days 1 0 3 Xilene 10 days 3 1,5 3 Gasoline 10 days 3 3 3 Buthyl Acetate 10 days 1,5 3 3 Water 10 days 3 3 3

WATERPOXY 751 CHEMICAL RESISTANCE IN COMBINATION WITH SOLID EPOXY RESIN EEW 500

Page 43: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Limitation of the epoxy system:

Outdor exposure : chalking problem no available solution

Gloss behaviour : loss of gloss during apllicationsome additives help to minimise the problem

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

Page 44: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

25°C Hoven 30°C 7°C 25°C Hoven 30°C 7°C

Top cote based on WP 1455 + WP 751

time 0 71 85 63 68 81 42after 30' 88 91 68 86 87 57after 60' 90 87

With Sov 9155 1% on WP 751

time 0 86 89 67 82 86 67after 30' 92 92 81 89 88 81after 60' 93 90

With Sov 9155 1% on the system

time 0 85 86 64 82 83 43after 30' 92 90 78 89 86 67after 60' 90 84

System/time 24 h 7gg

Sovermol 9155: gloss influence on a coating based on Waterpoxy 1455 and Waterpoxy 751

Page 45: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -

Waterpoxy – waterbased epoxy system

Waterpoxy WAX 14 - 329 - 80 % in H2O

fast drying – replacement of solvent systems

high gloss

long pot life, 4 – 6 hrs with liquid epoxy resin

Concrete top cote applications

New development

Page 46: Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system training BK… · Waterpoxy 1422 top cote and primer Waterpoxy 1455 primer and top cote. Waterpoxy –waterbased epoxy system Waterpoxy 801 -