1 8 8 3.

VICTORIA.

\VOODS AND WESTINGHOUSE CONTINUOUS

AUTOMATIC RAILWAY BRAKES.

REPORT o:r THE

BRAKE TRIAL BOARD ON THE WOODS AND WESTINGHOUSE

CONTINUOUS AUTOMATIC RAILWAY BRAKES;

TOGETHER WITH

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE AND APPENDICES.

PRESENTED TO BOTH HOUSES OF PARLIAMENT BY HIS EXCELLENCY'S COMMAND.

~l2 .1\.nth.oritl,! : JOHN J'ERRES, GOVERNMENT PRINTER, MELBOURNE.

No. 14.

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To the Honorable the Commissioner cif Railways, Victoria.

Sm, Melbourne, lOth Februar,y 1883.

'Ve have had the honor to receive instructions, by Order 83/425 of the Governor in Council, to investigate the relative merits of the 'V cstinghouse and vVoods Continuous and Automatic RaihYay Brakes, and to consider -which of t1Jem, if either, is most suitable for the Victorian Railways. vV e have done so, and now beg to report as follo\vs :-

Before, however, entering on the exact enquiry, we think it well to poiut out that, in our opinion, the introduction of the automatic form of any continuous hrake on a railway system is dangerous to public safety, unless the absolute block system of signalling has been previously established thereon, and therefore the recommendations which we make on the subject of automatic continuous brakes must be umlerstood to apply only to such portions of the Victorian Railways as are now, or when they shall be, worked under the absolute block system.

The two brakes submitted to our inspection were tested by running thirty trips, each trip so designed as to illustrate the practical qualities of the brakes tor every-day dnty. Other tests were made of a more curious and less practical nature, which will be ~·eferred to hereafter.

The work of testing began by carrying out experiments 1, 2, and 3 of the pro­gramme of January 8th (see Appendix A), which was placed in our hands, attached to our commission, and afterwards very slightly modified by the Board. On the follmring day the same work was repeated without alteration, because the Board unanimously agreed that the tests named in that programme were not only impartial, but that they were of a thoroughly practical and every-day character. Objections to that pro­gramme were raised by the representatives of the 'Vestinghouse Company, but the Board, after considering them, saw no reason to apprehend that both brakes would not he subject to equal conditions by its operation.

After repeated tests had thus been made, the Board held consultations with the representatives of each Brake Company (.~ee Appendix B), with a view to aseerrain from, and arrange with them, the further trials they wished. The representativ(·s ot the vVestinghouse Company suhmitted their suggested tests in writing (see Appendix C), of which suggestions Nos, 1, 2, and 5 were accepted, and Nos. 3 and 4 rejected: for reasons shown in Appendix B.

Further tests were carried out in terms of a second programme ( st?e Appendix D), and the results of the thirty stop trials above mentioned are shown in the following table :-

COMPARATIVE STATEMENT OF WORK DONE BY THE WOODS AND WESTINGHOUSE AUTOMATIC AND CONTINUOUS RAILWAY BRAKE~ ON THE VICTORIAN l~AILWAYS, ,JANUARY 1883.

1. 2. 3. 4. I 5. 6. 7. s. s. 1

10. 11. 12. 13. 14. 15. 16.

- - Average 0 0 Weight of I How Brake ] Nam<: of Brake. ] ~ Engine and Applied. § t;j ~ ·§, Tender.

z~ zrf!

A { 1 'Woods

3 W estinghouse

B { 2 ·woods ... 4 W cstinghouse

c { 5 Woods ...

7 W estinghouse

D { 6 I Wood-; ... 8 1 W estinghouse

E 1 \Voods

1•' { 2 ()

G { ~

H { ~ 5

J { ,, ~

K 2

L {' 3 I 5

\Vestinghouse \Vomh .

W estinghouse Woods . W esti nghousc Woods

W estinghouse

\Voods ... W estinghousc

Woods

W estinghouse

\Voods

!Tns.cwt.qr.

501M 0 0193 2 0

108 I 58 5 o 00 15 o I 5400 !J320 58 5 0 90 15 0

5054009320

108 58 5 0 90 15 0 93 2 0 00 15 0

50 5t

108 53 50 54

lOll 58 50 54

108 58 r>O 54

0 0

5 0 0 0 5 0 0 0 5 0 0 0

50 M 0 0

!J3 2 0

00 liS 0 !J:{ 2 0

no 15 o 93 2 0 00 15 0 !)3 2 0

00 15 0

!13 2 0 no 15 o 93 2 0

25 33 10 o I oo 15 o

147•1

H9

93•1 !10•75

147•1

llil 147•1

HU 147"1

lHl 147'1 !)0•75

147'1

124'2[\

46,23

42~

45 42~

4G 1~1 41H

First day-25th January, at Werribee.

67•7 14il 576 I 67!i

62'86 16

10,460 730·41 1} { I

27~ 0,142 571'4 575 782

878 815

(i4•4

57'4 66 62'86

(i4•4

71'35 62•8()

62'8G

~~ (i4~

&1 M~

19~

14:!: 2~ 15~

21

1()~ 18:,

9~

7,!\26 470"4 10,07il G67"77

8,473 485'8

7,1l23 534•fl5

G,2!J7 5,008

} 2~{

} } GO£{

538 660

734

4!l8

1,339 660

951

813

1,()53 898

Second day-26th Ja.nna.ry, a.t Werribee. 9,473 I 451·0() I ... 742 i 9G2

10,()04 il,611

10,078 10,4GD

11,778 (),026

5,568

543•8 4!)2•05

()50'2 606•9

724"8 481'88

586•1

} 10}{

} } 60G~

702~

321

887 868

734 749 641 956 437

'l'hird day-30th January, a.t Werribee.

13! 1 5,712 431·1 1} , 7'I{i 482 101

60 1 5,8l4 5!\1"32 i ~ " I 372~

l!l,1o

Hit

17

10,4()9

7,273

548'11

G08·6 } 17 {

738

005 86G

720

Driver

Do.

Driver Do.

Rear Guard

Do. Slip Do.

Driver

Driver Do.

Driver Do.

Rear Guard Do.

Slip

Slip Do.

Rear Gt1ard

Driver

Do.

M {I ;~ \V cstinghouse Woods

40 3!J 0 0

25 3:3 10 0 403!100

93 2 0

90 Hi 0 [)3 2 0

132"1

124"25 132'1

40:~

4~17 42¥

00 M~ ~~

16,~, 1!lit

7,384

8,001 8,105

4.'34•35

4ll7"86 415•64 } m{

613~

6()(j 688

91()

786 ()36

Driver } Do.

N {I ~ 0 10

1 3

\V estinghouse Woods

\V estinghousc

p {

{ 2 I woods

4 I \Vcstinghouse

108 58 5 50 54 0

25 33 10

010015 0 0 i 93 2 0

0 I 80 15 0

f>() 54 0 0 H7 0 0 108 5o> 5 0 83 0 0

50 5± 0 0 87 0 0

10858508300

141 141"25

141

141•25

40',~

3g I 39z~ 1

G2.£h

72

GO 55

57•39

!Jl·03

105"6

18i\, 2()

13i~ 6,355

452•56 265"8

477'82

l 70:!: f j t

707+, 879-

400

1,057 1,5(;3

653

Fourth day~31st January, at B.iddell's Creek.

18,143 5·10 l 3!)1 f 22,fil4 7:)1'3 f s

48it 118,H3 375·()3 t s:l?o I 24,458 725·75 j

1,580

fl41

Driver Do.

Driver

Driver Do.

Driver

Do.

}

Remarks,

Time of stop taken from centre of train, but as the distance ran wo.s very short the error in time recorded, if any, must be very slight

Driver did not apply bmke immediately on receiving signal, but very shortly afterwards

A preceding trip was rejected, because, in applying brake, b"WJ.rd broke the stop to handle

Neither test reliable. Distances between points of separation and rest not ascertained. 'fria.ls I and J substituted

Result doubtful. Tl1ree (3) carriages found leaking considerably on returning to \Verribee

Engine was slipped shortly before signal was given, consequently there may be a slight error in record of speed

Repetition of ll 8 test, after enlargement of escape valve in rear van

Mr. Inspector Sadlcr reported that he saw sand escaping from bexes on engine. Repeated by test 0 10

Engine brakes cut off

Applied four times in succession as quickly as possible and released, but kept on at fifth application

Repetition of L 3 test

in hrlJ.ke recci ver 180 majority of the whecb to

per squaro inch, which caused

..... ""'1

V

The very excellent arrangements made by the R:tilway and the Railway Telegraph departments for accurately measuring speeds, times, and dist«nces (see Appendices E to H inclusive) enabled us to adopt such records, without hesitation, as a basis for the calculationS given in the above table.

In order to arrive at a correct opinion as to which of the brakes is the most powerful, and most reliable, for the single purpose of stopping a train in motion, especial attention is directed to column 12 in the table, which shows the foot-tons of work done by the brake per second of application in each experiment. The various efforts of the brakes are therein reduced to a common denominator. For instance, in the A, B, C, F, G, H, L, M, N, and 0 experin1ents of the '\Vestinghouse brake, in which the whole weight of lhe trains was arrested at speeds under forty-nine miles per hour, the foot-tons of work done per second by that brake, in destroying the motion of the trains (neglecting fractions), were as follows :-571, 568, 535, 544, 650, 725, 509, 488, 453, and 478 foot-tons, whereas the 'Voods brake in the experiments of a like character gave 730,470, 486, 451, 492, 607, 481, 548, 434, 416, and 266 foot-tons.

Similarly with the high speed experiments, P and Q, the 'Vestinghouse foot-tons destroyed per second are 751 and 726, while those given by the Vvoods apparatus from like speeds are 540 and 376.

Again, taking those experiments in which the carriages alone -without the engines and tenders-were braked under D, I, and J : For the W estinghouse apparatus we get 359, 586, and 551 foot-tons destroyed per second, whereas the 'Voods brake in the same experiments gave 212 and 431.

From such common measures of 1vork done, as above related, and also from the information given in column 13 of the table, it will be seen at once that the retm·ding efforts of the 'Vestinghouse brake were, in most of these experiments, considerably greater than those of the 'Voods apparatus, and, taken as a whole, they are more uniform in their values.

Next in importance to columns 12 and 13, comes column 15, which in another way illustrates the relative values of the two brakes as train-stoppers. It shows the distances in feet to which each train would have ran, under the actual retarding forces endured in the respective cases, had an uniform speed of fifty (50) miles per hour been attained at the, moment of applying the brakes. For the Westinghouse, in those cases in which the whole train ·was arrested, ·we get 782, 815, 813, 887, 734, 641, 720, 78 6, and 653 feet, whereas the 'Voods brake gave, under similar conditions, 676, 878, 951, 962, 868, 749, 956, 866, 916, and 936 feet; and with those experiments in which the carriages were alone braked, column 15 shows that the Westinghouse trains ~t fifty (50) miles per hour would have stopped in 898, 437, and 483 feet, ·whereas the 'Voods trains would have travelled 1, 653 and 656 feet at equal speeds.

The explanations given in the column for " Remarks " of the table should be considered as modifying influences, when estimating the relative values of the above figures, but the Board accepts them, as results of trials made, under conditions exactly alike, snch as perfectly ch'y rails, ·wind, weather, and other circumstances, 1vhich allowed each brake to honestly show its individual action and ability. Cases in wbieh the free operation of the brakes was crippled, through the mistaken action of any attendant, were not recorded. It is, however, necessary to say, that although the resv~dive trains were well chosen, as to weight, class of vehicle, &c., the \Voods train was somewhat inferior to its competitor in both the number and description of brake hloch. The 'Vestinghouse train carriages had eighty-four (84) cast-iron brake blocks iu action, comparetl with the 'Voods train, which had only sixty-four (64) cast-iron and six (6)

. VI

wooden brake blocks in action. And beyond this difference, the lmtke blocks on the four coupled wheels of the \Voods train engine were not connected with the continuous brake of the carriages, but were actuated hy a separate starting handle on the engine, whereas the brake on the four coupled wheels of the \Vestinghouse train engine was connected continuously with the carriage brakes, and actuated at the same instant with them. These different circumstances "\Yere no doubt against the \Voods brake. Dealing, however, with the results obtained, it is easily perceived that, when considered merely as a train-stopping apparatus, the \Vestinghouse brake is the more powerful, and the more uniform in action of the two. It must also he stated that, throughout the trials, the vVestinghouse brake had no failures; it seemed always ready and willing to work.

The results of the tests made under clauses 4 and 5 of the second programme -Appendix D-fully demonstrate that instantaneous contact between brake blocks and wheels and instant:'lneous release of such contact are produced equally l1y both brakes ; but the results obtained from the trials made under clause 3 of the same programme indicated that, in the \V oods brake, although instant:'lneons contact followed application, yet the full pressure of contact was not instantaneous, and that it was not nearly so rapid in arriving at the maximum pressure as seemed to he the case with the \Vestinghouse apparatus. This particular difference appeared to he very generally illustrated by all the other tests made. The \Voods brake made contact and began its work instantaneously, but did not-by virtue of its design­instantaneously apply its maximum retarding power, and this graduation of power, for the first few seconds of application, seemed to be the cause of the contrast experienced by the Board, and very generally remarked by the spectators, between the smooth running of the Woods brake trains and the rough running of those with the Vl estinghouse brake just after the brakes were first applied. With the \Voods apparatus the times occupied in stopping, and the distances ran after application, were sacrificed to smoothness of motion, and the prevention of jerks to passengers. In the W estinghouse brake, on the other hand, the full pressure of contact, hetw·eeu the blocks and wheels, can be instantaneously secured, at the option of the driver, and this was done in the trials, so as to o htain stops in the shortest distances and the shortest times ; hut such instantaneous applications of full force caused very perceptible jerks and shocks-sometimes violent--at the moments of application, and gre::;,"!;ly differing from the smooth action of the \Voods brake. In the \Vestinghouse trials, smoothness and easy retardation were sacrificed to the times occupied, and the distances ran in stopping. The ·westinghouse apparatus can he gradually applied, and in ordinary working this is doubtless done. The \Voods brake, on the other hand, cannot he applied with greater or lesser forces, at the option of the driver; the graduation above spoken of is automatic in its action, so far as the driver has control the brake must he either full on, or not on at all.

If this question were to be decided, in accordance with the value of the results obtained fi·om the trials which we \vitnessed, the \V cstinghouse brake would unques­tionably deserve our recommendation ; but to engineers of locomotive departments, other and more important considerations present themselves. Durability of parts; cost of maintenance; and, perhaps most important of all, safety of action; these enter largely into the proper consideration of this question. \Ve approach this section of the enquiry with very considerable reserve, because it must he remembered our actual experience with these brakes is very limited: a much longer experience would have been necessary to enable us to pronounce, with fullest eonfidence, a definite opinion of

Vll

them ; but, as a substitute for a longer experience of their actual working, we have the mechanism of the two brakes to guide us in judging as to how each of the above­named important features will be influenced.

Simplicity of design, and stability of parts, are essential to the endurance, the economy, and to the certainty of prolonged action in mechanical appliances which move about. Therefore we are of opinion that, on the structural differences of these two brakes, a great deal depends, as to which of them is the most suitable for the Victorian Railways.

In looking at the question from this point of view, it becomes of the first importance to appreciate fully the great difference which exists between automatic and non-automatic action in continuous railway brakes. In the latter case the complete and unqualified control over the motion of a train is placed in the hands of the men on the engine and the guards in the vans ; but in the former case a conditional con­trol only remains with these men, and the absolute control resides with self-acting, irre­sponsible machinery. So long as that machinery performs its allotted functions, and no other, all goes well, but should it refuse to move with precision, or move when not required, all soon goes wrong, and trains most probably would in such cases be stopped suddenly, and against the intention of the men in charge of them. This may happen in busy station yards, or on obscured portions of main lines, where collisions may occur with other trains moving over junctions or crossings, or with trains following rapidly, unaware of the obstruction in front of them. Hence the importance of employing machinery in automatic brakes, so simple and so strong, as will reduce the chances of failure to a minimum. Hence also the importance of the recommendation, with which we commenced this Report, as to the desirability of employing automatic brakes only in conjunction with the hest block system.

'\Ve have carefully examined the details in the construction of both brakes, and we find them in this respect widely different. The moving parts of any apparatus are those most liable to disorder. The moving parts of the Woods brake apparatus are few, simple, and strong. They are simple in the extreme, and in every respect like the common details of ordinary pumps or steam engines-easily made and easily repaired or replaced. The '\Vestinghouse details, in comparison, are numerous, complicated, and frail; they are very ingenious, hut too complex to be kept in order by ordinary skilled mechanics not specially trained. There are ten (10) moving pieces in the vV oods apparatus, all simple and strong ; and in the W estinghouse brake the~·e are thirty-three ( 33) moving pieces to effect the same purpose, many of them complicated and frail.

The question before us thus seems to resolve itself into a choice between superior retarding power, combined with complex mechanism, on the one hand, and inferior retarding power, combined with simplicity of mechanism, on the other hand. These conditions have been carefully weighed ; and we are unanimously of opinion that the Woods hral~:e is, of the two, the most suitable for the Victorian Railways ; especially as we consider that its action, and its reliability, may be further improved, by very slight modifications in its design and materials, without in any way reducing its simplicity. It has power to arrest moving trains very quickly, as the best results obtained from it at the trials sufficiently testify ; but it is wanting in uniformity of action, and this we believe may follow the improvements indicated.

There are lesser advantages possessed by the vVoods brake, amongst 1Yhich may be mentioned the ready wny in which it shows defective joints, by the escaping of water, thus calling for attention nnd remedy. In air brakes serious escapes may occur unnoticed, at the expense of economy and utility, unless extra cost is entailed for additional and unusual inspection.

Vlll

With regard to the other part of the question before us, as to whether eithe of these brakes is suitable for the Victorian Rail ways, we may, perhaps, best answer that by pointing out that we are not in a position to recommend any other automatic continuous brake in preference to either of them. This we could only undertake to do after testing and examining in detail other brakes, just as these have been dealt with. We may, however, mention that the Smith's vacuum, the Sanders and Bolitho's vacuum, and Barker's hydraulic brakes have given very excellent results on English railways; but that any of them would be found more suitable for the Victorian Rail­ways than either the W estinghouse or the "\Voods brake, we are not at present able to say.

We have the honor to be, &c.,

WILLIAM THO"\V, M.I.M.E., Locomotive Engineer, South Australia (Chairman).

HENRY HORNIBLOW, Locomotive Superintendent, Queensland.

,V. E. BATCHELOR, Locomotive Superintendent, Tasmania.

Melbourne, lOth February 1883.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.

No. 14.

Robert Imray ...

George Lorimer

George A.. Oibbs

William Young

vValter Burns ...

Edward Matthews ...

William Decis

James Keat

William Thomas Bradford

John Thomas Prior

James Morrow

William Trott

William vVemyss

Henry Neal

J ames Willett

William C1ark

LIST OF \VITNESSES.

John George Winchester \Vilmot

Thomas McEwan

John Tyrrell ...

William Griffiths

Peter Tyrer ...

William Miller

William Dick...

Alfred Trott

Robert Buchanan Campbell

W alter Wittick

Ebenezer Brown

Robinson Jackson ...

Frank Bell

Samuel T. :VIaxwell

Reuben Walker

vVilliam Burrows

"William Merrim<tn

John Stokes

.Artlmr Picrrepont Greaves

.,John McTaggart ...

;John Woods ...

Jeremiah Reilly

Solomon :Mirls

Page

1-6

7

7

8,9

9

9, 10

lO

11, 12

12-14

14, 15

15-17

17, 18

18, 19

19

19,20

20,21

21,22

22,23

23

23,24

24-26

26, 27

27, 28

28,29

29-33, 47-49, 52, 53

:'l3-34, 36

35, 36

36-38

38,39

39,40

40

41,42

42,43

4.1, 44

44,45

45-47

49-53

53-55

55-58

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE BOARD APPOINTED TO ENQUIRE INTO THE

MERITS OF THE \VOODS AND \VESTINGHOUSE BRAKES.

THURSDAY, 1sT FEBRUARY 1883.

Present: W. THOW, Esq., in the Chair;

H. Horniblow, Esq., W. E. Batchelor, Esq.

Mt·. Woods, representing the Woods Brake, and .!ttr. CamzJbell, representing the W estiughouse Brake Company, were called in.

Robert Imray (of Immy, Hirsch, :mu Co.) examined.

1. B.IJ the Chairman.-I should like to ask you if you take any objections to the trials which have Leen made of the W estinghouse brake?-Yes, I am obliged to say that I do.

2. Wlll you specify what they are ?-The first is that the Westinghonse brake was handed over to the Board without a single alteration from the state in which it has been running on the Brighton line since Augu;:;t, and that in such state, without a ~ingle alteration, and without a failure, it has gone through every test required of it.

3. I ask you for objections ?-This is the first purt of it: that besides several minor alterations the Woods train has been twice materially altered.

4. I must draw your attention to the question. I do not want you to go into description of what was not seen by ourselves, but to ansvi'er questions a~ closely as you eau. I want to know whether you have any ohjection to the way in which the trials have been made with the Westinghonse bmke-leavc the Woods brake for the present, if you please ?-I do not exactly understand the quoc~tion.

5. Do you take any exception to the way the trials were comluctetl with the \Vestinghousc Lrakc? -Do you mean in the matter of putting it ou its Lest footing?

G. Yon eau answer "yes" or "no," surely, to a question of that sort ?-I do not wish to commit the position before I know what I answer. If you ask have I had any objection to the way the trial.'! have been made on the hest footing, then I should answer --

7. Then we must go tlu·ough the matter in a detailed form. Perhaps you will be aLle to comprehend that. I will refer to the programme-[!tanding a copy to tlte witnessj-of the first day\; trhtls, and I will confine myself to that first of all, and ask you to do the same. Have yon auy objection to the way in which the trains were made up-eight carriages and two vans ?-None whatever.

8. Have yon any oLjection to the engines whieh were used ?-Xo. 9. Naming them 108 and 50 ?-No. 10. Hnve you auy oLjection to tl1e way in which the ground was chosen and staked out ?-Thoro is

one thing about the engines and carriages that I think very import:tnt-that is the driver~. 11. We will come to that presently. Have you any objection to the way in which the ground wa:;

chosen and staked out ?-No, none. 12. Have you any objection to the way in which the brake,; were trietl in consecutive order, or

rather the order in which they were t.ried :ts per this programme-in weather, wind, and ::;tntc of mils aml so on ?-None whatever, excepting "the state of raib." I have one oLjection to that, and that is that, in one test, the mils were wetted for us.

13. Can yon name the test ?-I think so. It was on the 26t:h, I think. If I eould see the pro­gramme of the whole, I could tell. It was the first stop made by the W cstinghouse Lmke, on the Friday.

14. The brake applied by the driver ?-Yes. 15. What part of the mils were wetted ?-Some part between the application of the Lrake and the

stopping. The fact is borne out Ly the wheeh; skiduing, aud then going again witltottt any alteration of t.he Lrako.

16. Is that the only reason you have for saying the rails were wetted ?-And that they were ~een wet.

17. Will you name who saw them wet ?-When the train went over or after--18. It would be useless to cnqniro about their being wet after your trial. Yonr assertion i;; that

they were wet Lelore your trial '1-Y cs, I ~aw them wet on the retirement of the Wood~ brake train. 19. And you con;;itler that the wetting of the rails Wl'<> the cause of the wheel~ skidding ?-In that

particular test I imagine it may have been. I do not wish to state so emphatically. It at all e\'onts was the cm.se of a much longer stop being made than afterward;;.

20. You did not ;;ee the engine, or any part of the Wootl,; train, wetting the raib, I presume ?-:Xo, that was hardly possible.

21. You cannot give any inform!ttion how the rails became wet?-Yes ; from the Kplnsh of the water from the \V oods brake train. I believe it was escaping undm· three or four carriages.

22. At the usual escape valves '?-Of course I did not examine it critically myself; hut I think there was an extra escape through the failing of some of the parts underneath those carriages. You remember the tmiu had to be put Lack.

BRAKES BOARD. A.

Robcrt Imray, 1st Feb. 1883.

Uobert Tmray, contintJt<i,

lot ~'eb, 188:!.

2

23. Yon remember there wa~ a failme oB the fir~t train ?-It wa~ the ~econd test of the \Voods on that occa~ion.

24. It would be the first teHt of the Woods brake, would it not; or was it the second, think you·?­I am speaking of the occm;ion on which theW oods train hat! to put back am! we took the field of running.

25. That was after the fin;t ?-There have been so many days that it is confn~ing without having it noted down before me.

26. I may say, positively, that the Wood~ train was first tried on that day, and yours was the second test of that day ?-They went on-I know it by tlmt.

27. Did you obsen•e which rail-whether it was the outer rail or the inside rail that was wet ?-No. The wetting of the rail was simply the ~plash of the water.

28. \Vould both rails be wet?-Yes, more or less, or perhaps more than wet-they may have been grca~y with the globules on them.

2\l. Did that occnr on any other day than the one you ~peak of?-Not. that I rcmemlJer. 30. \Vas there any greater escape of water on that day from the carriages than on other days?­

I think there mu,;t have been. 31. Then we come to the Heeond part of thi5 programme. You will ~cc that the first clause in the

programme is "Continuous brake applied by drh•er and the tender brake by fireman ;" but, by unanimous agreement, I thinl<, the tender brake was l3truck out ?-Yes.

i3::!. So that the elnnsc remains "Continuous brake applied hy driver;" have you any objection to ra.i:>c against that test ?-No, excepting, of course, that our driver was strange to the train behind him­that it was carried out with an engine strange to the trnin behind it.

33. Did he not work the Westinghouse apparatus in a sat,isfactory manner?-Hc worked it to the best of his ability-never lwxing workctl it lJcfore. He never had the brake train behind him when he tried that experiment.

iH. Canyon say how long he worked that engine ?-::\Ir. Camphell can say. 35. You will please confine yourself to what you know yourself. You cannot say how long this

driver had been at work with the \Vestinghousc appnmtu~ ?-On the engine only-no, I cannot, deeidcdly. 3G. Did you obsmTe any mistnke which he made with the Westinghc>use appamtus?-Not being on

the engine, it was impossible. Y.7. Then we come to the second clause-the continuous brake applied by the rear guard on signal,

the driver to shut off steam im;tantly, but not to toueh the tender brake, Have you any objeetion to raise to that clause?-None.

38. Then the third clause-" Engine to be detached from tmin by slip-coupling with steam full on" -any objection to that ?-None.

3B. The shocks and the strains on the draw bars, I think that test was not attempted, as we had JJO

means of carrying it ont at all ?-No. Of course this only rcft:TH to the W estinghousc train. 40. Then taking the first day alone-the 25th .Tanuary-werc you satisfied with the way in which

the trials were carric<l out as far as theW cstinghonse train is concerned ?-I did not bring the whole list of the trials. It is rather hard to remember them all. If I had the notes of how they happened it would call it to mv mind.

41. ·on the first day the Woods train ran the first two trials, which happened to be applieation by driYcr in both ea;,;e,.;-one at forty miles an hour, anti the other at an attempted sixty. Those were the first two trials of the Woods train. The thirtl and fourth trials were by your train in the same way, both applied by the driver. The fifth and sixth trials were with the Woods train-the fifth by application by the rear-guard, and tl1e sixth the slip test. Yours-the seYcnth and eighth-were the same. Seventh, application by guard-eighth, slip test.. So that you had on the first day, the third, fourth, ami ~eventh, and eighth te~tr; ?-Wa,; that the day on which in the rear-guard application of the Woodil train the handle went wrong '?

4:!. Yes, that is the day. Now I will ask you if you have any objection to the way in which tliC 'V cstinghouse trials were conducted on the first day ?-Excepting the handica11 of the engines and carriages -none.

43. What do yon mean by the haudieap of ~he engines and ?-That we had a man driving who never bad 11 bmke train, driving in the face of our repeated request to have a driver ·who had had the brake train behind him.

4.J.. Now, I think we had better confine our~elves to that (lay, and I will ask if you have any objection to raise to the way in which the first Woods test was carried out ?-None.

45. On the second Woods trial whieh was the attempted sixty mites an honr ?-None, that I remember.

46. Then we take the fifth tri!tl of the tlay, also with ·woods tmin, application by rear-guard ?­I have only this oujeetion to make, that the handle going a little further relieved the brake from the trniu. I failed to Hnd out ;;ince why that :;honld have been accepted, considering the brake is instantaneous in its action.

47. Arc you aware that the apparatuK which controlled the handle broke ?-Yes, the wood, lmt that would not affect the application of the IJrakc.

4R. Arc you aware it affected the position of the handle ?-After it had gone past the position it would npply the brakes.

49. But it, did not remain in the position it ought to have occupied ?-It had passed the position for applying the hmkes.

[JQ. Did it do it instantaneously or loy a ;,;econd movement, tlo you know ?-It is presumed that it was instantaneously. I was not present in the VILli. I heard it i'iaitl that the guard applied it too hartl and t\O

broke the wood, so I presume it was very instantaneous. 51. Then the tlixth trittl of the day with the \Voods train-the test-have you anything to urge

against that ?-No. • 52. Then, I think, that fiuishes the trials of the first day-the 25th ,Tannnry ?-Yes. 53. Now, comiug to the second d!1y-the 26th January, I will refer to your company's hrake-the

Wcstinghonsc-slwll I nJ:Hl yon tbe ;<equcnec of trials ?-Yes, hut yon might ask me some quc:>tiom; as to the firtit day-if I have auy ol>jection to the conduct of the fird day',; tl'iab.

3

54. Have you any objoctiom; to the way the trials were carried out with theW estinghouse brake 011

the second Jay ?-Only this, that without notice, or in any way being consulted, the representative of the Westinghouse brake was excluded from being in the brake vans of the train, notwithstanding an emphatic protest and request to have the right in compnny with the reprcsentath·e of the \Voot!s brake.

of1. Did you see the representative of the Woods brake in the brake vans, tra\·elling with the brake vans during the tl'ial ?-I did not S>ty I tlid.

56. So far as you know neither company had any representative in the brake vans that day?­I took no trouble to notice thaL The Board having decided that, I thought they would look after that. I took it for granted that there were not-if you say so. I think it was the second day.

57. We might just test that. It seems to be of very little importance which. My memory fails me as to which. I think it wns the third tlrty ?-Yes, the third dny.

58. \Vas any reason given for excluding the representative of the brake company from the brake Yans ?-The only rcaRon I remember you giving wa~ that Mr. \Voods objected.

59. Then shall we deal with the sequence of the trials on the sceoml day?-Yes. 60. vVith your train you ran the second, third, fourth, and fifth trials on the second day?-Yes.

There is one trial on one of those days in which I think it was generally accepted that the guard applied the handle Into- a secowl m· so-either on the first or second day.

61. I have no note of that myself ?-~Ir. Camp bell was on the engine with you, and cnn testify to that if you ask him the question.

62. If I was on the engine I could not possibly see the guard opemte, as he wouhl be in the last van ?-I meant to say the driver.

63. I have no note of it. Have you any other objections to raise to any of the trials on the second day, as far as yon arc concerned ?-None.

64. Then we will go to the Woods triab on the second day. The Woods hrake train ran the first trial. Have you any objection to rai;;e to the way in which that was comlneted ?-No.

65. And after the completion of the trials wit.h yom train, the Woods brake train ran the sixth test of the day, which was a repetition of No. l trial ?-Panlon me. Before going any further, I have no objection to the way in which the \Vood,.; trials were conducted, if you took notice of the cause of failure on that occasion.

66. We did ?-I have no objection then. 67. Then that disposes of the trials on the second day ?-What were the misses? 68. ·with the Wood,; train on that day No. l trial was 40 miles an hour. No. 6 trial was a repeti­

tion of that, because it wu:; claimed tlmt the failure of the Wood;; apparat.ns, seen by the leakage of the cyl:ndcrs when it got back to \Verrihec ~talion, had influenced the first trial. Therefore No. 6 was a repetition of the l:;t. No 7 was an attempt at 60 miles an hour, according to programme. No. 8 was the guard's test. That completed the trials of the Woods brake for that day?-Y os, 1 remember now.

69. You did the slip?-Thc \Voods train hatlnot time. 70. Do I understand that you have no objection to the way in which the trials of the Woods train

on the secon<l day were comlncted ?-Ye;;. 71. Then we will pass on to the third day ?-That is the day we were excluded from the guard',; van. 72. Y os, I t.hink so ?-Then that come;; in there. 73. On that day we had a new programme. I do not know whether you have a copy of h. This

was the trial of the 30th ;rannarv ?-Without wheat. 7 4. The wheat was put i;1 for the second tilllc on that day?-Y os. 7 5. And the triab began with the slip-coupling test of the Woods bmkc ?-:May I ask if you

remember my saying to yon, the night prcdmu•, that this slip-coupling should have been tried after two or three experiments with the \Voods brake, and yon said it ~hould he?

76. Yes, I remember that ?-I haYC that objcz~tion. 77. That it was not applied in the same SC(ItJence a;; yours was ?-Yes, that it had not rtlready gone

through two or three courses. 78. Then supposing we take the second trial of that day-abo the Woods train applierl by rear

gnrtnl ?-Has it been noted correetly-my objections as to being in the guard's van on this day, because it -\vas stated on the wrong day.

7!3. Y os. Ha Ye you any objection to the second test of Woods brake, applied by the guard ; that is on the 30th? -That was the day I stated I saw water coming ont. Was that the 30th ?

80. That must have been the 30th ?-Thou I have that objection. 81. This was the day on which we had the small engines-to remind you of a particular feature?-

Yes. 82. Then Ko. 2 was the application by the guard, and having a large engine. Js there any objection

to raise as to the way in which that trial was comlneted ?-I have none. ' 83. Then we take the third trial of the day, which was with the Westinghouse, and ~o. 25 engine­

the small engiue ?-None. 84. This particular trial we are speaking of was the forty-mile trial ?-No objection. 85. Then we take the attempted sixty-mile trial with the same engine, No. 4, in order of the

;lay ?-None. 86. Then we retnfll to No. 5, which wa.s the '-''roods train trial, No. 40 engine-have you anv

objection to that ?-None. • Si. And No. G was also the Woods train, with No. 40 engine ?-It was on that test tlmt I saw the

water coming from the guard's van, I believe it was. That is the only objection I have, with beinrr cxclllllod from the van without sufficient reason. I went down myself to the part where the train passed the post, and asked !mother gcndcman to take particular notiee if water streamed from the extreme end of the guard'~ van. On the train pa~sing it did so. I calle<l the attention of M1·. J\Iurray to the water 011 the slccpci·~, and the gentlenmn whom I told off to watch can give evidence that he saw it comina from the ' . ~ extreme end of the guartl s van.

Htl. Did yon-ob~crve that particular featnre hcforc the engine ani Yell at the green flag or not?­I conltl not say; but I oh;;crYed it ju::~t when the cntl of the tmin wa;; about half way between the rod and the gt·een flag ; and I al~o saw the man 011 the engine giving n signal to the gmml.

Robert lmra.y, continued~

lst ~·eb. 1882,

Robert Imray 1 continuedt

1st Feb. 1883.

4

89. Then we will deal with thi;; man's signal first. How do you know he gave it to the guard?­From the position he took I should imagine he could give it to no one else. He stayed on the side of the engine with his right hand out like this-[showing his meaning by gesture]-and as soon as e,ver the engine passed the green flag he gave the signal.

90. Did you ob;;crve the man standing on the engine in any of the other trials preceding this?­I did not ..

Hl. Are you aware that a man was on the engine on all the preceding trials ?-I was told so by you. 92. Are you not aware that the man stood on the engine in all the previous trials, for the purpose of

giving the signal ?-Not in that position. 93. Are you aware he was on the engine at all ?-I was not. 9J. You cannot say whether the man stood on u different position from your own knowledge?-No,

nor that he gave a signal to the guard, from my own knowledge. 95. I want to ask whether you observed any difference i11 the position of the man on the engine in

this pnrticnlar test. You cannot say ft•om your owu particular knowledge ?-I could not say, from having not seen him in this particular position Lefore.

IJG. There were m:tny arrangements made in detail which, from want of time, we could not, as a Board, explain to the representatives of each company. I may tell you, as a matter of fact, that this man stood upon the engine ou every preceding trial of the same character ; but on this particular trial, by my own directions, he stood upon the opposlte side of the engine to that which he had stood on before, because in this engine, No. 40, the regulator or, rather, the driver of the engine stands on the opposite side to that on which the other drivers always stood; and, by my own direction, the man who gave the signal took up his po~ition on the same side of the engine as the driver; and what you saw was his haud giving the signal to the driver as he passed the green flag. You probably took that to be a signal given to the guard, but it certainly was not ?-If it was necessary to give a signal to the engine-driver-the man standing with this hand ont-[lwlding out his right hand]-how could the engine-driYer get the signal from this hand, when the engine-driver vms on the left hand ?

9i. I hnve just explained that that was not so. The engine-dt-iver was not on his left hand; he was on the same side of the engine as that on which the man stood to the signal, and, as it happened, on the opposite side of the engine to which every other driver on the preceding trials had stood-nway from the flngs. After that explanation, do you consider the fact, which you noticed, of the man giving the signal on the opposite or uuusual side of the engine caused you to suspect that he was giving it to the guard ?-No, I do not.

98. Then what proof have you that the guard received any signal from the man ?-I have already stated that it would be hard to give any proof that he did. I only saw the man giving a signal, whether to the guard or others I cannot say ; and, after your explanation, I accept it, of course.

99. Did you see two streams of water running from this particular brake van ?-I did not. I saw one decided-mther at the top than the bottom, and of course I saw a small escape underneath the carriage, more to the centre of the carriage.

100. Did you see two streams of water running frvm thi:-; carriage ?-I only saw one-at the extreme end.

101. Take the whole surface d the carriage ?-I saw two or three, or four. 102. Did you see two distinct streams running fr; m this carriage, I will ask ycu, on that particular

cccasion ?-I will not say distinct streams. I saw one distinct stream. 103. Now I will point cut to you that your evidence shc)ws that you cannot say that you saw a

stream of water running frr 111 this carriage bef< re the green flag was passed by the engine. I will also point cut that ycu oanm,t definitely say that this man gave a signal to the guard. I will also point out that you cannot say you saw two distinct streams d water running from this brake van ?-From one particular part of the brake vau.

104. I give yen the whole surface, and yen cannot say distinctly that you saw two distinct streams d water rmming from the brake vnn ?-Certainly not.

105. New I ask you in the face d that evidence can you a~sert that that guard put on the brake?­Unless I had seen him, of c:~urse I could nGt.

106. Then am I to understand that it is a mere matter d suspicion on y< ur part that he did put on the brake ?-It is deducted fr, 111 the fact. of my haviug seen the water fr.:m that part of the train where it escapes, whether actuated by the guard's vah"e or the handle in the guard's van. There would have been no h'< uble if I had seeu him do it, and still less if we had been allowed to he in the van. I wish to state that the day previou3, when I was in the van, the guard stood the whole time I was in the van in this p sition (with Ms ltands beltind ltis back) with his hands on the handle. That was Guard Bell, But that he did not move it, of course.

l 07. Now coming t) No. 7 test of that day with, I believe, the Westing house train-that is the same day-aml that I think refers tc) No. 3 clause cf the pr·p:rammc. This is the test in which the brakes were t,J be applied three t:mes in succession aml as successively released, and on the fc.urth applieation the train was t) be bt"< nght t) a stand. The only difference between the real test and the one described in the clause is that the applicati<,ns were fcm instead of three, and that after the fifth the train was brought to a ~tand-have yen any objection to raise to that ?-..t\.s far as we are concerned, no.

108. Then we will go to the 8th test of the day which was the same application with the ·woods bt·ake. Have you any objeetion to raise to that.?-Yes, that tl!ere were not four applications of the brake. There may have been four movements of the hand 1e, but not fom applications of the bmke.

10!1. Will you concede that there were four movements of the handle, or can you show there were not four "?-I cannot.

I 1 o. Will you concede that it wa;; after the fifth move of the handle that the train was hrm1ght to a stand, or that it stopped after the fomth ?-No, I do not raise that ohjeetiou. I believe the handle went throngh the whole of the motion~, but whether it applied the brake in every iustance, I cannot say.

111. Do yon admit that the test waH applied in a bom~ fide manner-that the trial waH carried out? -If it rests only on the movements of the h::mdlc, I do not doubt that for a moment, hut if it. rests on the disti11ct feeling of 1lw application of the brake ou the tmin, then I certainly say, there were not four applications of the vVoods brake, or three, or two. :Mr. Saddler sat in my train, and I asked him the

5

qne;;tion, and I also pointed out to him only one brake in the water underneath the train. one brake. The rest was continuous,

There was only nooort Imray, continued,

lat Feb. 1883,

112. Do you agree that as far as the Board are concerned it was carried out?..:-Yes, I have not doubted the Board all along.

113. I may explain that these questions are rather applicable to the action of the Board, because we are responsible for the trials. Any inaccuracy which may have occurred we shall be glad to hear of, and I want to ascertain if you are satisfied with the way in whieh the Board has dealt with the trials ?-I have spoken of the trials only, and if any of the objections I have raised have anything to do with the Board, then I only raise the questions and leave them raised. I cannot help that.

114. Then we come to No. 9 trial of that day which was a trial of your own brake with the slip· coupling test with the ·westinghouse train. This test if you remember was repeated. Have you any objection to raise to the way in which it was dealt with ?-No.

115. Is that the one that was repeated because of Mr. Woods' objection to a cord out of the end o£ the carriage ?-I believe it was on some objection of Mr. Woods', but I cannot recollect which it was.

116. It is the slip-coupling test in which the train stopped in 372k feet ?-Yes, that was the one where it was repeated, because Mr. W ootls objected to a bit of cord on the end of a carringe.

117. It was also the test in which the man slipped the engine before he got to the green flag, and I think I took an objection to the time recorded by the engine, because as Mr. Campbell pointed out the brake wus not absolutely applied before the engine reached the g1·een flag ?-Yes, and you said you would let the other stand.

118. Yes, and not let this stand as a boruJ.fide test ?-Yes, and that this one bore the others out. 119. Now, coming to No. 10 test, which was with your brake. It was a repetition of the attempted

sixty-mile test with the small engine? -On nccount of a protest from Mr. Saddler that sand had been used?' 120. Yes ?-No objection whatever. 121. That gets rid of the third day. Now, coming on to yesterday's tests ?-Is that a.Il of the third

day. I thought there were some more stops on the thin! day. 122. There were the three stops in snccession-the fourth clause. You are right-" Three stops in

succession to be made with each tmin ; the time to be taken between each stoppage and the succeeding start, so as to test the rapidity with which the brakes can be released and the train freely started again." Those were made with each train, as you know ?-Yes. At the time, you said they were approximately the same-you said they were about the same.

123. My reason for that was, I found such a diversity of records in keeping time that it appeared to me that the engine was the only place in which the time could be taken, and the thing had not been sufficiently well arranged even to take it there ?-If you remember, Mr. Gibbs, your secretary, took the time. It was taken by three recorders in the carriage where I was. We tallied exactly as far all the difference of seconds. \V e showed an ad vantage of two seconds over the Woods brake, aml we can Bhow it to-morrow if we have an opportunity.

124. I may tell you my views of that test. Before a carriage can be started, which is some distanee from the engine, the draw bars must be extended, and before the draw bars can be extended the engine must be moved on, so that a person standing on the engine and recording time cannot be expected to agree with a person three or four carriages behind. Y on say that Mr. Gibbs and some other person were in the same carriage with you ; no doubt in that carriage you got the same record?-Y cs ; and on the engine you would get the same and on any other; the draw bars would be the same.

125. I have shown that the engine mnst be driven fc rward bcfcre the draw bars could we rk ?-'fhat would be the same on every experiment.

12G. At the same time the records we have aimed at are absolute records; and, as I said just now, even to get it on the engine our arrangement was defective, because there was no sign adopted on the engine which was to note the same. Fur instance, we might have done it in this way-the first beat of the engine after the stJppage might have been the signal for the watch to be set going, which would have been an absolutely or cnrnparatively correct point to start frcm ; Lut that was not done, and it was left entirely to the judgment of the rec;;rder, who might be on the engine, as to when the train really started. This was a test that I myself put in to try the value of an objection which I heard mentioned in Melbourne against one of the brakes-that it was impossible to start the brake, in a reasonable time, after it had been stupped, again frcm !'<'ad-side stations. And I may say that, so far as the test is e;mcerned, it has satisfied me (the clmirman)-I do not know as to my c:Jileagues-that the brakes arc quite equal, either (,£ them, to start again fr,Jm a r, ad-side station as soon as any person can desire, or as ;;oon as the business of a small read­side station would require ?-I have only to say that yom secretary took the time fer buth trials in exactly the same p:sition in both trains, and that his ree:ml tallies with other records to two seetmds in our favor thr,mghout.

127. That disp:ses of all the tests of the third day. Now we go on to what was done yesterday­the clanses of the programme being taken in the order of 7th and 5th. Coming to the first trial of yester­day, with the \Vocds brake, down an incline, at 60 miles an hour-have you any objection to raise to the way in which it wa,.; carried cut ?-None, except that I asked Mr. Woods on that cccasion if he w0nld agree that the representative of our brake company should be in the guard's van, and that he objected.

128. Then as to the second trial of the day, also with the Wootl;; train, at a similar speed ?-No objection.

129. Then with the \Vestinghonse train?-None. 130. And with the last trial~ which was also the Westinghouse?-Nonc. 131. Then as to the tria.l,; whieh are represented by the 5th clan:-e, and which were matle in the

Melbourne station yard, last night-first with the Westinghouse brake ?-I have no objection to make. 132. Aml then with the W ootls train ?-I fail to understand what you meant by saying "no test"

on that occasion. 133. I have it written uown hero that we could not get any result-that is what I meant ?-Does

that mean no te:;t as far as we are concerned? 1:1 I. No, not Rt all ?-Then I can have no objection to the test. 135. I meant to say no result-the brakes did not go on at all-that is what I should have recorded.

As far as the other three test>~ are concerned, they are accumtely recorded ?-In the tests of yesterday, by the way, I wish to object to the addition of that carriage. I have asked this question already.

l!obort Imray, oontinu£d,

1st Fen. 1883.

6

136. I think I can define the carriage for you ?-61 n, I think. 137. That was the one in place of No. 1!l Hn ?-Yes. 138. What is yom objection ?-That on Mr. Wom1s pointing out to you a small piece of rope at the

end of one of our carriages, it was sufficient to cause that test of ours to be done over again, it having been clearly shown to ~fr. '\Vomls that that rope could only do us damage if touched or used.

139. Which test was that ?-Our slip test. 140. Which slip test?-The one that was repeated. 141. It was certainly repeated for some reason ?-That was the reason. 142. It was in place of your test of the second tlay, No. 5 ?-Yes, and I think that the Board

would not have caused it to be repeated unless they had seen that there was sufficient ground for Mr. '\V oods' objection.

143. You must not say that. There are many things the Board have allowed which were not necessary for the Board's information, bnt solely that we might accommodate each representative of the two brakes. '\V c have done a great many things in these tests which we won!tl not have done for our own information, lmt simply that we might oblige every one who was connected with this question ?-If there was sufficient cause for .Mr. Woods to complain about this small piece of rope at the end of this carriage, most people woulu hold the right to complain of the addition in each of the compartments of a handle by which the brake could he actuated.

144. Is there a handle in each of the compartments ?-Fuur cut of the five. One is the accom­modation c~mpartment. I saw ft:tlr out of the five, or three out d the four, I am nc·t certain which; and I wish to record here that the carriage immediately on entering Spencer street I saw was marked f0r repair at Williamstown, so that it may undergo any alterations. It may be taken to pieces, and cannot be used in evidence now. It was marked on both steps.

145. l\:Iarketl in very legible writing ?-Yes. 1·16. ~o secrecy about it ?-~o, none. 14i. That drMvs my attention to a point we might get information about. On the first day of the

trial, I believe those ropes were not attached to your Westinghouse train. There was a rc;pe at each end of the train by-the-bye, but on the first day they were not attached ?-I do not remember.

148. Can yon tell the Beard why the ropes were attached ?-Iu the hc,pe that the Beard would try an experiment as to the severance of the train fer junction wcrk. You remember we put it down in cur prcgramme asked for?

149. Yes ?-It >vas in the hopes of ycur carrying out that ex11eriment; and had those ropes been used for anything else, they would have been used to onr detriment, cutting cff the brake between the engine and the train. Mr. W octls had it clearly p<,inted out to him on the programme.

150. I wished ycu to explain the matter, as they caused a little curiosity on the part, not cnly of members of the Beard, but also rJf other~ ?-Yes.

151. Are there any other points you wbh to draw our attention to?-Yes. The first is, that the '\V Pstinghouse brake was handed over to the Beard without any a1teratiGns fr, m the state in which it has been running on the Brighton line since August 1882, and that in such state, and withcut a single failnre, it has gone thrcugh every test that has been required cf it. And besides several minr r alterations, the '\V ocd;; train has been twice materially altered to meet the emergency tests, and that such test can m t therefcre be taken to show what wcuhl be dcne by the '\Voods brake in or for r nlinary running.

152. Anything else ?-That notwithstanding the alterations the W ocds brake, during the tests d 25th, 26th, 30th, and 31st J an nary, and over an approximate mileage d 250 miles, failed to act se me fLltr or five times.

153. May I ask you to specify the times en which it fai!etl to act?-Yes. First, on the 25th, when applied by rear guard-you remember the wocdcn part. of the handle br, ke, and thr,,ugh its brcakh1g opened the valves again and s0 took off the brakes. As far as I can see it is imp ssiblc to pr.;vc that the handle would take off the brakes once they have been applied. Again un the 26th it fniled in ~ me vital pn.rt­we had to get into cur train and had no time to examine it, lmt there were several fitters employed fcr s'me time. ·when we came back they were hard at work at it in the siding, so we presume it wn.s s:,me extra fail me.

154. I will call your attention to that statement-the failure yun refer tJ was net, I think, en tho second day ?-I think it was when we had to take the field d running, shortly after the Woods train get <.Lwn there.

155. That was on the second day ?-Yes. 156. The occasion of failing was after the first run on the sec"ml day, when we went back to the

'\V erribce station and observed the water was leaking frcm several cf the carriages c f the W ocds brake ?­Yes, under the carriages-net from the coupling.

157. No. Then, I think, if yGu recvllcet, on going hack t:> the \Verribec staticn, after making the first test with the '\Vestinghonse brake, the \V oods tmin was lll>t there at all, but had gone se me distance on tJwanls Melb;,urne ?-Yes, further hack.

158. You now state that when we returned you saw fcnr or five fitters at w, rk en the Wocds train? -Yes.

159. How could you see that ?-It did not go back directly. It went first to one sidillg aml then to nnothcr. I am not quite sure about it, but I distinctly remember seeing the tmin in the siding with four or five fitters underneath it, going in and out. I remember coming back another trip and seeing the train right away up the line-why it wal:l there I do not know.

I GO. Is there anything else?-Y cs. On the 30th (this is the third) the casting burst. I think that is admitted. Tl1e fourth is, that in one of the trials-! think it was the second, with the light engine­the one iu which the train hatl to put back through there being insufficient pressure in the accumulator. Fif'th, the brake blocks had to be eased off before reaching, or at Sunbury yesterday, owing to having been put too closely before, to meet the emergency tests.

161. Any others ?-No ; that is the whole of the four or five failnreB. Thnt enumerates them all. Hi2. Have yon uny other remark to make ?-No, I think not; except t.lmt I have handed into the

Board the names of witness~ts we would like called.

The witness witltdrew. Adjourned to to-morrow at half-past Nine.

7

FRIDAY, 2ND FEBRUARY 1883.

Present: W. Tnow, Esq., in the Chair;

H. Horniblow, Esq., W. E. Batchelor, Esq.

Mr. Woods, us the representative of the Woods Brake Company, and .Mr. Campbell, as the representative of the Westinghonse Brake Company, were called in.

George Lorimer examinetl.

1G3. What is your occupation ?-Fitter. · 1 G4. Are you employed by the W estinghouse Brakes Company?-Y cs. l!i5. Have yon been engaged for some time with the W estinghouse apparatus ?-About six months. lUG. I suppose you are thoroughly acquainted with its mechanism in every way ?-Yes. 167. Have you been engaged in kceiJing it in order since it was applied to the Victorian Railways?

-Yes. 1G8. Has it worked without many failure;; ?-It has worked without any failures at all. HiD. How many engines have you fitted with the pumping apparatm; ?-Three engines on the

Hobson's Bay line and one on the Spencer street, side. 170. And how many carriages arc there fitted ?-Fourteen and two brake vans. lj I. Have you got any other engines here except the four that are fitted on locomotives-any other

pumping engines ?-I cannot say; I believe there are two more. 172. Two spare ones?-Y cs. 173. Have they been used at all ?-No. 174. So far a;; you are aware, then, none of the appamtuB, either on the pumping engines or the

triple valve arrangements, have given any trouble ?-Not the slightest trouble. There was only one slight hitch occurred, and that war; the cylinder cros;;-head of the van gave way, owing to my taking np the van at one end, so that the 1mtkes wonhl have twice the distance to travel at the one end of the van as they would have at the other, putting an undue strain on the cross-head.

17 5. 'l'lutt was due to incorrect adjustment at first ?-Exactly. li6. Is there anything you would like to explain to the Board ?-No. So far as I am concerned

there has not been any hitch oceurred with the exception I have told yo& of.

Tlte witness withdrew.

George A. Gibbs examined.

Gcorge Lorhoor, 2nd k'cb. 1883.

177. By tlte Board.-I think yon were asked by the Board to travel in the trailing van of the trains Gcorg; A. Oibhs, under trial?-Yes. 2nd hb,lSSa.

178. W onld you just tell us what your instrnctions were as to the object of yonr travelling there? -I cannot say ; I had definite im;trnctions to travel in the van in connection with the whole of the trains.

1/!l. No, I believe it was after the first or second day, that arrangement was made my instrnctiom were to allow nobody else in the van, but the gnard and myself; and to sec that there was no movement made of the lever witb which the brake was applied from the rear van.

1!:10. Do you remember in one of the trials there was some question mised as to the application of the brake by the gnnrd ?-Yes.

181. In consequence of water having been Aeen to run from the hind van ?-Yes. 182. Were you in the train at that time ?-Yes. 1R3. Canyon Hay whether the handle was applied at all ?-No, it was not. 184. You me quite snre ?-I am quite positive, and for this reason ; I w&s sitting on the seat

nearest to the handle, and it could not })Ossibly have lJeen applied without my seeing it. lR5. Where was the guard at the time ?-To the best of my recollection (I am not quite positive)

he was standing down on the floor of the van-not on the raised platform. 18G. Then the only person who could by accident even have turned the handle would have been

yourself ?-Myself or one of the reporters. lR i'. Was there a reporter in the van ?-There were two reporters and another genHeman on this

occasion. '!'his was prior to in8tructions that nobody was to travel with us. There were two reporters from the llerald and Daily 1'elegrapk, and Mr. Pattcrson, one of the contractors who makes lamps and supplies oil and other things to the I~oeomotive Department.

188. And were any of those gentlemen near the brake handle ?-Mr. Pattcrson was sitting down on the se1tt on the floor of the van, the two reporters were standing on the raised platform, one sitting on the seat opposite me, the other standing near me. I think one of them had hol<l of 1he wheel, but there was no revolution made.

Hi:J. He had not hold of the handle ?-No, I am sure of that. To have reached the handle he must have come very clmw to me~stretched over.

190. The handle could not have been turned even by accident you think ?-No, because the lCYer did not move-the lever remained in its place against t.he back of the van.

191. Did any pers(;ll travel, after y,m had definite iustructionH in the hind van, except yourself?­Nohody. I wns very pnrtieular about that aftcrwarih;.

192. By Mr. Campbell (through the Ckni1·man.)-Do you remember at what part of the day yun were tdd off to keep HtrangerR out d the vanl-Upon the third day.

1B3. Were you told oil' on the second day ?-I was told off on the second day after the dispute with Mr. 1mray.

19±. At what time of the day were you instructed to keep others out of the van ?-I remember that it was s:Jme time during the prcgrcNs of the trials, for thi~ reason-that the chairman asked me to obtain the pre:;sure;,; from the carriage fitted with the indicat<Jr gauge, >~u I did nut travel in the van then. It was during the pr >gre~K of the trials. I cannot Hay exactly when. I did not take a special note.

1 B;l. Y l'll had instmcli•ms fnr that particular trial referred to ?-Y cs, to see that the brake was not applied from the van.

The witness withdrew.

Wllllam Young, lnd Feb. 1883,

William Young examined. 19G. By tlte Board.-What are you ?-An engine-driver. 197. Where do you live ?-Sandridge. 198. Have you been driving long on these railways ?-I have been over seven years driving on the

Scnth Suburban lines. 199. Have you driven any of the trains that have had either the Woods or the W estinghouse brake

upon them ?-Yes, I have driven the W ocds brake. 200. Have you had any experience with the \Vestinghouse brake ?-None whatever. 201. Where have you driven the Woods brake ?-On the Brighton line-Melbourne to Brighton

and back, and Balaclava. 202. I suppcse you have driven it now fur several years ?-No, it has not been introduced that time

there. 203. How long is it since you drove it first ?-I could not say exactly. 204. Generally ?-I think between eighteen months and two years is about the first I ever had

to do with it. 205. Have you worked it regularly since then ?-No, only a trip, now and then, when I ran

against it. 206. How long is it since you last worked it ?-About a month ago. 207. Were you running it regularly previous to a month ago?-No; only a trip now and again, as

we ran against it. One engine brings it in, and another takes it out the next time, so you get one trip one day and some days none at all. There are several brake engines in the yard, and we have to take our regular turn rcund to keep the trains going.

208. Have yun had any difliculty in working it when you have had it in your hands?-Well, no; not a great deal. At first we were strange to it, and we were rather frightened to trust it, till we got a little acquainted with it.

209. Are ye u better acquainted with it now?-Yos. 210. Arc you frightened of it still ?-No, I am not afraid of it now. 211. What reason had you to be timid of it at first, when it was in your hands ?-Well, it was simply

this-the want of knowing how to use it-judgment more than anything else, the knowing how it would apply.

212. Simply for want of experience?- Yes, for want cf practice with it. 213. Have you had any difficulty in making it act in a satisfactory manner lately ?-No, not a great

deal; I have had no difliculty in making it act. 214. You are not in a position to compare it in its mcde of application with the Westinghouse ?­

No; I have had nothing to do with the \Vestinghc,use, so I could pass no opinion on it. I had always the \Voods brake engine and never the other.

215. Taking two engines-one with the \Voods brake train and another without the Woods brake­do you find there is much difference in the amount of work that has to be done by the engine ?-The train with the brake is of course much heavier than the other.

216. In what respect ?-In pulling. 217. 'l'he train is heavier?-Thc train is heavier. 218. Is that additional bulk due to the brake apparatus ?-Due to the weight of the train-the

additional ironwork about the train. 219. As far as the absolute manna] labor of the engine-driver and fireman are concerned, is there any

greo.t additional labor ?-There is no additional that I see. The fireman may have a little for the extra fuel for the greater pulling. It gives him a little extra labor.

220. Would you suppose that the Westinghouse brake was any lighter on the engine ?-I cannot say it is any lighter. I have pulled them lJOth, and, when not using the brake, I find it is a similar heavy train to pull as the W cods.

221. Is there any difficulty in maintaining the pre~sure fur applying the brake with the Wouls appamtns ?-There is very little difficulty providing you keep your steam up. You always get the pressnre. You have to watch your pump and keep at a pitch that will keep the pressure up for you.

222. You can work your pump at any be iler pressure ? -Yes, you can work yonr pump at :my boiler pressure.

223. But if your boiler pressure is low, your bmke pressure is low ?-Yes, and therefore we do not trust to the brake so much gcing in, us we have not so much power over it.

224. You have no long ])auks on that road ?-No, no difliculties to speak of. 225. I want to get your opinion of this particular case. We will assume that a Woods brake train

was going over the top of a kng bank, would there be any inconvenience in following the usual practice of allowing the pressure in the boiler to run down in such a case ?-I do not see that you want to allow your pressure to get down.

226. But it is usual ?-To save fuel going down the b;mks. 227. Would it be anyinconyenience with a Woods brake train to adopt that plan of saving fuel

when running down banks ?-Well, she will lose the pressure in the accumulator just the same as she would in the boiler.

228. And therefore if the brake was to be applied it would not be applied with such force ?~No, not the same pressure.

22U. During the time you have had the brake in your hands have you had any one riding on the footplate with you to instruct you as to how to manipulate it?-\Ve had at first, when it was first intro- · duced. W c had a man for a few weeks, till we got a little acquainted with its uses.

230. Have you ever known any f11ilnres ?~Yes, I have found it to fail, but not to a, great extent. The cause of failnre was the pump flying back and the pressure having gone. The clack got stuck in the boiler, and instead of getting the water we got steam, and we had to shut the brakes off directly to save the tmin. I daresay that was due to a bit of dirt getting through the pipes.

231. Was that the ordinary boiler claek box that was out of order?-Yes. 232. Have you found that the pipes under the caiTiages failed and gave any trouble ?-No ; on ono

occasion I found the train went much better tl10 one waY than the other, so I came to the conclusion that . there must have been a sort of pa~sage in some of t.he carriages close to the engine. '

9

233. Did you ever find the trains stick on the road through the action of the brake when it was not WHiiam Young,

wanted ?-No. ln~:,'t~~·s3. 234. So far as you are aware the brake never went on without your putting it on, or the guard putting

it on ?-No, it never went on, on the road with me, that I am aware of.

The witness withdrew .

. Walter Burns examined. 235. B,'l/ the Board.-What are you ?-Fireman. 236. Where ?-Sandridge. 237. Have you fired with Young the driver-Yes. 238. How long ?-Eighteen months. 239. Have you worked the Woods brake train.-Yes. 240. Had much experience with it ?-Yes, a good bit with it. We have worked it as much any. 241. Do you find it gives you any more trouble in keeping up the steam, and entails any more firing

than an ordinary engine without the brake ?-Perhaps a little more. I a! ways make up a pretty big fire when I have the Woods brake-about a bag or so, and the driver steams further into the station with the '\Voods brake than the ordinary train. That is the reason the fuel is used.

242. Does the train feel heavy ?-No, not particularly. 243. Did you ever observe any failure with the brake at all ?-Yes, on two occasions, on account

of the levers being put on through neglect of the officers in the station. 244. Which levers do you refer to--in the carriages ?-Yes. 245. Did the brake go on on those occasions and stop the free working of the train ?-No. The

brake did not go on at all. The levers were not on. 246. Some of the carriages were without the levers ?-No. The officers at the stations did not put

the levers on. 247. They did not turn the levers ofthe cocks ?-No. 248. Therefore the brake would not act at all ?-:No ; we ran by Richmond station. We

depended on them putting the levers on. 249. Have you found that the train stuck up on the road at any time through breakage of pipes or

couplings ?-No. 250. Have you found at any time it was difficult to start the train from the stations on account of

the blocks not being able to get away from the wheels ?-Yes, it did two or three occasions I think ; I found it hard kind of bump-a bit of a knock up against the engine but not to signify. I thought it was on account of the guard's brake being on, and he never took it off-he gave the signal from the platform and never took the brake off, consequently after we started he took the brake off, and the carriages came against the engine-bump.

251. Have you had any experience with the W estinghouse brake at any time ?-Yes, on two occasions. I was on at the trials of it.

252. Did you find any difficulty in working the Westinghouse brake at all?-Yes, a great difficulty in working it.

253. Was that at first?-Yes. 254. Before you were experienced with it ?-Yes, but it was on account of them trying the brake

and not being used to it. I never made up a big fire, and I found that I was a long way short of fire and fuel. 255. But you have only been on a few times ?-Only twice. It was when they were putting it on

full; they do not apply it now as they d1d then. They were putting it on full then-driving quite close up to the stations. The consequence was I had to fire a ~~:reat deal.

256. That was soon after its introduction ?-Yes, I think the second day. 257. Can you give a statement of the pressure with which you work the Woods brake generally?-

125 lbs. in the receiver. 258. Did you ever work with a much lower pressure than that ?-No, nothing lower than that. 259. What pressure does your boiler carry ?-130. 260. Have you had any experience with engines carrying ninety pounds and the Woods brake upon

them ?-No, only one I had experience with, and that was the Westinghouse-number 21, she carried ninety, that was the second day.

261. What was the pressure do you remember in the '\Vestinghouse receiver at the time you were running the train? -I could not say that, being not accustomed to it, either the driver or I. I think it was 75 lbs., but I cannot say for certain.

Tlte witness withdrew.

Edward Matthews examined.

262. By the Bow·d.-What are you ?-Engine-driver at Sandridge. 2G3. Have you beca working any of those continuous brakes ?-I have been working the 'Westing

house brake. 264. Have you had any experience with the Woods brake at all ?-No. 265. How long have you worked the Westinghouse brake ?-About five months. 266. Is that the last five months ?-Yes; I started abcJUt the beginning of September. I only

worked it occasionally at first and latterly nearly regularly. 267. Where do y-,u run to with the '\Vestinghousc brake ?-From Melbourne to Brighton and

Balaclava. 2G8. ·what number is y·.mr engine ?-Number 25. 2G!). Have you funnd that it works freely or d0es it give you any trouble ?-It works all right and

never gave me any trouble at all. 270. Have you had any breakdowns at all up:m the reads ?-No. 271. What is the pressure that you usually work the brake at ?-About from 60 to 75 lbs. 272. And when ydu c:m1e int0 a station do you apply the brake to all the carriages ?-Yes. 273. And to your engine as well ?-Yes. 27<t Does the guard apply the brake in any way ?-No, he is not supposed to.

BRAKES BoARD. B

Waiter Burrno, 2nd Feb. 1883.

Euwd.llfo.ttbews, 2nd Feb. 1883.

10

Edwd. Ma.ttbews, 275. D.:es he not put any brake on at all ?-I think not. If he does so it would cause the train to continued.

2nd Feb.IS83, stc.p too so(·n, or jerk.

Willlam Declo, 2ad l'eb. 1883.

276. He does not put on his hand brake us fur as you know ?-No. 277. Does the train jerk v:ery much ?-No, it does not jerk at all. 278. When you are stopping is there any perceptible jerk then ?-In case that an inexperienced man

may use the break it might make a jerk perhaps-not knowing exactly how to hamlle it. 279. I suppose you did that yourself when you first comJnenced ?-Yes. 280. Do you think, e\•mparing number 25 with the W estinghouse brake upon it with a similar

engine, it takes much steam to keep the brake engine gcing ?-No, very little I think. I cannot perceive any difference in the fuel ( r anything like that.

281. I suppose ynu were an engine-drivel" long before you saw the Westinghouse brake ?-Yes. 282. Do you think it any improvement for engine men ?-I think so. 283. Y on would always like to nave it?-Yes. 284. It gives you more control over the train ?-Yes, especially when we are pushed for time, or

have a heavy train. 1Ve go on as much as we can and we are glad to have something to enable us to pull up, and especially in wet weather.

285. Dt~ you work the brake now yom·self without any instructor?-Yes. 28G. You have no one travelling on the footplate to give you directions ?-Not lately. 287. I suppose you had at first ?-Yes. 288. By .!Jfr. Woods (through the Cltairman).-You have had the brake in your hands for five

months l-Yes. 289. Had you any one to instruct you for a long time after you commenced ·work ?-No, not long,

just Mr. Campbell riding on the engine, and he used the brake at first to show us, and after he fouud out I could manage it he never rode on the engine aftet·.

290. I suppose he has not ridden on the engine now for how long to give you definite instructions ? -About three or fcur months, I should think.

Tlw witness withdrew.

William Decis examined.

291. What are you ?-Fireman at Sandridge. 292. Have you been firing for Matthews, the driver?- Yes. 293. How long ?-About thirteen months. 294. How long do you think it is since you had the Westiughouse engine to de3.l with ?-About

five months. 295. And what engine had you before ?-Number 26. 296. Is she a similar engine ?-Yes. 297. And where were you working 2G before you had 25 ?-On the Hawthorn line. 298. Do yon find much difference in the work upon the two ?-No, not much. 299. Did 26 take as much firing as 25 ?-Just about the same. 300. Have you ever known the brake to fail at all since you had it ?-No. 301. The trains never stuck on the road ?-No. 302. Who instructed you in the method of working the brake, or who instructed the driver rather?

-Mr. Campbell. 303. Was he long there ?-No, only one day. 30·1. I suppose he travelled with you ?-Only the fit·st day ; he travelled in the train. 305. Did yw make any mistakes the first day?-No, I do not think so. We stopped short a little,

that is alL 306. Whose duty is it to put on the pumping W estinghonse engine?-The driver's. 307. He always does it ?-No, I put it on myself sometimes. 308. Is it always going ?-No, we shut off at the stations when we have not got the train. 309. When you are running on them?-When we have the trains it is always going. 310. \Vhat pressure do you work at ?-Sixty to sixty-five pounds. 8ll. That is the every day work ?-Yes. 312. What is the weight of your trains usually upon the line ?-I could not tell that. 313. The number of carriages ?-Ten-eight carriages and two vans. 314. Do the trains vary much in length ?-No. 315. Always about the same?-Yes. 316. Do you find that the air-pump sometimes stops without knowing why ?-No, when it stops it

wants a drop of tallow, that is all. 317. And could you give an idea how often it is stopped in that way ?-No. 318. Three times a day ?-No; sometimes it will not stop in the day. 319. It does not give you much trouble then, I presume ?-No. 320. I suppose you find it easy work now, h!l.ving no brake to put on?-Yes, a little bit easier. 321. Have you had any experience with the Woods brake ?-No. 322. By Jib·. Campbell (through tlte Chairman).-Do you find any jerking with the Wc::;tinghouse

train ?-Not if you work it properly, it does not jerk. 323. What causes it to jerk ?-I could not tell you. 324. You say if it is worked properly ?-If you do not give het' air enough for the stop. 325. If the driver does not open the air-valve too wide it does not jerk? -No, there is not a move

()ut of it, if it is worked properly. 326. Do you fiud that the guard puts the brake on ?-Never with us yet. 327. Are the stoppages all done from the engine?-Yes. 328. By the Board.-Could you tell if the guard did put the brake on ?-Yes. 329. What effect would it have?-You would feel it on the engine then. 330. The brake would be put on the engine wheels then ?-Yes. 331. Have you any arrangement with the guard by which you put on the brakes both together ? -No. 332. Does the guard apply his hand brake as far as you know ?-~o.

Tl~;C witness withdreu;.

11

James Keat examined.

333. What are yon ?-Engine-driver. 334. Where ?-On the suburban lino. 335. What engines have you driven lately ?-Numbers 34, 2:1, and 31. :136. Are any of those engines fitted with the continuous brake apparatus ?-Yes. 337. Which ?-3'1 and 31, Woods brake. 338. HaE the otlwt· engine you mentioned got any brake at all ?-It has the Woods brake on, but we

do not use it. We are running on the Sandridgc line at present with that. 339. Are those engines new or old ?-New. :\fade by Robison Brothers. 340. What pressure are they working at ?-31 is 110 lbs, and 34 is 120 lbs. 341. Are they working passenger trains ?-Yes. 3.!2. Arc you driving them regularly ?-No, because I am shifted from one engine to another. I am

a spare driver. 348. How often do you think you have workcll the Woods brake train ?-I could not tell you how

often, but a good many times. 344. I should like to ascertain what length of experience you have had with it-have you worked it

for several months ?-No, I have not been driving for several months. I was firing on it previous to driving.

345. Either as fireman or driver you have had several months' experience with it ?-Yes. 346. Have you ever known it to fail?-Yes. 347. When did it ?-It failed with me once on the Brighton road; it worked very well till I got

to llalaclava, and then I put it on at Elsternwick, and I found it ditlnot grip properly. The consequence was I went two carriages by the station, and the same at Korth Brighton. It did the same thing again.

348. Did you discover what the cause of the failure was ?-No, I had not time to do that; we have not time to discover things there.

3:19. Did it come right afterwards ?-I did not trust it after. I worked the hand brakes going into Brighton and Middle Brighton.

350. On returning with the train ?-I did not trust it very much; I trusted the hand brake more than that.

351. You found it worked to some extent, I suppose ?-Yes. 352. What was done with that particular train ?-I reported it. 353. Was it taken off the traffic when you returned to Melbourne ?-It was the last trip I had to

run that day. 354. Any other failures ?-Many a time, when I have been going out to Brighton expres.sly, I have

found the brake stick on the tail end of the train for some two or three seconds when I am starting from the station.

355. What do you think is the cause of that ?-I think the brake has got choked in the pipes, or has not been properly looked after, or something, because there is not sufficient way, there is not the proper clearance or pressure to take the brake off.

356. You think some remedy in the size of the pipes or outlets would be necessary?-Yes, no doubt that could be done. Sometimes after the engine has gone half a turn the brake will come off and give the engine a jar.

357. I suppose you have had experience with engines that had not the brake on ?-Yes, I have had 30-she has no continuous brake at all.

358. Is there any more difficulty in attending to 34 and 31 than attending to those engines that have not the brake ?-Yes, a great deal more. It does not make it so much harder for the driver, but it does for the fireman, because it takes a deal more water and more fuel.

359. As far as the driver's work is concerned, there il'l not much difference ?-Just the matter of difference of putting on the brake. He has to judge the distance and speed.

360. Have you to watch the boiler pressure with greater care ?~Yes, with great care, and watch your water also ; because if you have only half a glass of water in coming back from Brighton, and you have any speed, it will take the water out of your glass riding ten to twelve miles an hour into a station. The water always sways forward and drips out of your glass.

3{\1. Where does the water go to ?-To the leading end of the engine which we are running first. 362. The water is in the boiler too ?-Yes. 3G3. You said you consumed a great deal more water ?-Yon use far more water running the brake

train than an ordinary train, or a train with no continuous brake. I tried it several times. I can do the trip to Brighton with 600 gallons of water with a train without any brake, and it will take me very near 900 to do it with the continuous brake. Of course where there is water used it amounts to extra fuel as well.

364. Do you consider the difference between 600 and 900 gallons is used by passing through the brake cylinder ?-Yes. That and the extra weight of the train pulling, which means extra steam, and it is all waste of water.

365. Is that the double or single trip ?-The trip is what we call there and back-to Brighton we call half a trip.

366. You have given an idea of the additional water consumption--can you give an idea of the additional coal consumption ?-I bum coke on that line.

367. Do you burn much more coke ?-To the best of my knowledge it will take about five bags of coke extra to the trip.

368. And how much is in a bag ?-They vary a great deaL They are supposed to be a hundred­weight-some may be more or less.

369. Would you consider you burned five hundredweight additional ?-I should say fonr hundred­weight and a half additional coke at the least, more than to an ordinary train without any brake.

370. Then just speaking again of the boiler pressure-have you to watch the boiler pressure with any greater care on a brake engine than on an ordinary engine?-Yes, we have to keep it on the brake engine to a regular thing, and with an ordinary engine it does not matter to 10 lbs. of steam, whether you keep it up, as long as you do not go below 100 lbs.

.James Keat, 2nu Feb. 18811.

Jamcs Kcn.t, continued~

2nd Feh. 1883.

W. T. Bradford, 2nd Feb. 1883.

12

371. Taking your experience as some guide, would you rather have a train with a continuous brake on it or a train without it ?-Of those two trains, I would far rather have a train without the continuous brake.

372. I think you said you had no experience with the W estinghouse brake ?-No ; I beg your pardon, I have had a little experience.

373. \Vhat has your experience been with it ?-My experience has been as a fireman. 374. Whom were you firing for ?-Driver Thyrrell. 375. Where were you firing for him ?-On the South Suburban line. 376. The same road ?-Yes. 377. What engine had you then ?-25. 378. Had you any stoppages with the Westinghouse brake when you were on the engine ?-No. 379. No failures ?-No. 380. Have you found that the Westinghouse brake took any more water ?-No. I have run to

Brighton Beach many scores of times with the same amount of water as the ordinary train-600 gallons ; and I have tried it from my own experience when I was firing with an extra bag of coke-that is about a hundredweight.

381. \Vould you say that the Westinghouse engine burns one extra bag of coke compared with an engine with no brake on it?-Yes, that is what I have found it to be.

382. And does not consume any more water ?-Yes. 383. Do you find any difference in the stopping powers of the two brakes on the suburban lines ?­

Yes; one will stop gradually, the other is judgment. Without you are careful of pulling up the Woods brake train you are very likely to jar the people.

384. Which one is gradual ?-The W estinghouse. You can put it on too, and gradually decrease it, and regulate your speed with it, the same as the hand brake.

385. And with the Woods?-Ycu have tD put all the pressure on er none, and when ycu take it df' there is none, and the consequence is when y,m take all the pressure off it will shake the passengers me re or less.

386. So that in coming to a station if you c:.me in too socn ycu must stop cntsidc the statirn u take the brake off and start a second time?-Yes, quite right.

387. What are the number of carriages cf the W estinghc use train-about the same as the other?­The same, ten carriages on each. I have had previous experience d the W estinghouse brake, previr us b this road.

388. Where ?-In New Zealand-the Auckland and \Yaipu Railway. 389. Had yen experience with the same autcmatic brake er a direct acting brake ?-A direct acting

l>rake we had there for a c:msiderable time. 390. Do ycu remember ever being • n an engine when the guard applied theW ocds brake ? - N c. 391. Have yc.u any experience with the guard applying the Westinghcuse brake at any time ?-N0. 392. Have ycu been a driver with the Westinghouse brake on the suburban lines ?-No, but I haYe

driven down at New Zealand fLr a time.

The witness withdrew.

William Thcmas Bradfcrd examined.

393. What are you ?-Engine-driver. 394. Where ?-On the Hobsrm's Bay line. 395. Are you a regular or emergency driver ?-Regular. 396. What trains are you WLrking there ?-I am en the St. Kilda at present, and srmetimes en the

Brighton and Windscr. 397. Ycu run from Melbcurne to St. Kilda and back ?-Yes. The last week lr so there has been

a man sick there, and I have taken his place. 398. What engine have you ?-Number 16 to-day. 399. Has that got any continn us brake en it ?-No. 400. Have yen had any experience with the c1ntinuous brakes ?-Yes. 401. Which engine ?-Number 29. I have had the Westinghluse brake. 402. Any ether engine with a c' ntiun us brake?-Yes, I had 33 ; thnt ha,; W ocds' brake. 403. Any other?-Yes, I have been on other engines too-on 21, that is a W estinghouse. 404. Have you worked any of those engines lately?-Yes. 405. Either 21 or 33 ?-I have worked 33-the Inst. 406. When did you work that ?-About a couple of weeks ago. 407. Have you worked that frequently ?-No, on 33 I was out while one of the dri•·ers was off. 408. How much experience do you think you have had with the Woods bmke altogether?-We

never have them regularly. We have them on and off. I should say about three or four mombs on and off. 409. Sufficiently long to enable you to form n reliable opinion of it ?-I could work it with confi-

dence after a little time. 410. Have you had n similar am unt of expcl'icnce with the Westinghouse ?-Something similar. 411. Yen know how to handle both of' them ?-Yes. 412. Take the Woods brake-have you ever known it to fail on the road ?-No, I cannot say fail. 413. Your train never stuck on the road when you wnnted it to go on ?-Except on the releatiing d

the brakes. It might not release vet·y qniekly. 414. But when running between stations it never stuck ?-:!S'o. 415. Have you ever overshct stati• ns with it ?-No. 416. Huw drl you manage to stop at the stations when you have the \Voods brake ?-1 certainly

apply the hand brake first so that I will not come in too quick, and then apply Woods' brake-judge about the distance and apply it.

417. To sto11 ?-Yes. 418. And you have always found that it answered the purp)se in that way?-Yes. 419. Does the guard apply hi,; hanJ brake in any way ?-N c', not to my knowledge.

13

420. Doe~ the guard apply any brake, either hand or C:Jntinucus ?-No, excepting when we are w. T. llrndforM, continued,

running without a brake he has his Yau. 2nd Feb. 1883.

421. But with a brake?-No. 422. Have th;cse engines you have worked with the Woods brake had full boiler pressure ?-Yes,

all of them. 423. Do you find you have to watch y Jur boiler pressure more closely than when you are working

an engine with the W ocds brake ?-Yes. 424. Does it make it m re difficult f,r the fireman to keep the pressure up ?-It gives him a little

more \rork in fuel keeping the fire up, because he must keep a good pressure of steam up. 425. What would be the result if yon did not keep the steam up ?-Overshoot the stations, because

the engine pump works the brake. I mean to say that if I did not keep a good pressure on the boiler I could not get a good pressure on the brake. I must first get the boiler pressure and then the brake pressure.

42G. You would in fact have to alter your judgment of distance if you had a low boiler pressure ? -Yes.

427. Do you find it jerks the train much ?-Not when properly worked. 428. Now coming to consumption, I think you said more firing had to be done. How much more

fuel would you burn, think you, between Melbourne and St. Kilda and back to Melbourne on the "\Voods brake ?-I do not use it on that line.

429. Then on the Brighton line, in working from lVIelbourne to Brighton and back, how much more fuel would be 1·equired for the trip there and back?-You might say from a bag to two bags.

430. How much would that be in weight ?-You cannot calculate one hundredweight of coke in a bag. There are over twenty bags to the ton in coke.

431. About a hundredweight and a half would you say ?-Yes. 432. How many miles ?-Nine miles and a half to Brighton Beach-nineteen altogether in the trip. 433. And how much additional water do you think you would use ?-I should say about forty

gallons. 434. Would that be the total water you would require ?-That would be for brake purposes, because

you would have to apply the brake for every station. 435. But if you used more fuel you would use more steam ?-Yes, more steam and more water. 436. How much would the total consumption of water be compared with a train without the brake?

-About 800 gallons of water for the nineteen miles-that would be close working. . 437. How much water does your carry ?-800 gallons. 438. And if you went from Melbourne to Bl'ightou and back without a brake train you would only

require to fill up once ?-That is all. 439. And if you had a brake train you would have to fill up twice ?-It is advisable to tnke a drop,

but I have gone without. But it is advisable to have a little to work with. 440. Where do you generally take the second 800 gallons ?-Generally at the Beach, and if I have

time at Windsor. 441. And is that your usual practice now to take water at some of those outside stations ?-If I have

any doubt about the brake, that it is using more water, I take it, but if I think the brake is working well, I run without.

442. When you have not a brake train at all do you take extra water ?-No, we run with confidence with the 800 gallons.

443. You think the brake would consume forty gallons?-Yes. 444. Between Melbourne, Brighton and back ?-Yes. 445. Would the engine consume the other 760 ?-You must allow sometimes perhaps you might

have to apply your brake twice ; if you come in too slow, ease off and apply again. 446. But in your opinion would the engine use 760 gallons ?-I think so. There is not much left in

the tank when I have tried it. I know when I get back to Melbourne, I have to fill up again to go anywhere else after taking the brake.

447. Now, coming to the Westinghouse braka-you have had experience of that ?-Yes. 4-18. Do you find that the consumption of water is any greater in that ?-No, unless from the pulling

of the train, that is the only difference. The train may be a little heavier than the train without the brake, but not for the application of the brake ; there is no water used for that.

449. There is of course the steam passing through the pipes a certain amount, but it is very little.

450. Not sufficient to call your attention to the difference in the consumption of water ?-No, it might be a very little.

451. Number 21 engine was one you had experience with with the Westinghouse brake ?-Yes, and number 29.

452. Are they in good order?-Yes, they are running very well. 453. What brake llressure have they ?-21 is not as high as 29. 29 is well up. It is one of the

new engines. 454. Bnt both of them work the brake equally well?-Yes. 4il5. Are they similar engines ?-No. One is Stephenson's, the other is one of Robison's. 4f)6. Is number 33 a Robison engine?-Yes. 457. Which is the Robison of the Weslinghouse ?-Number 29. 458. Is it like number 33 ?-The same make-the same engine. 459. Do you find the coal consnmption with the Westinghouse brake is perceptibly greater ?-Not

much. I have not fouml it burn very much. 4GIJ. Except what is due to the heavier weight of the tmin ?-That is all. 461. Have you ever found the Westinghonse brake fail ?-No. 462. Never stick on the road in any way ?-No. 4G8. As an engine man having experience of both those brakes, which do you think inspires the

greatest confidence in the drivers in coming into a station, which do you consider the brake that the driver can put the most confidence in ?-I should s:1y the "\Vestinghouse.

W. T. Bradford, continued.

2nd Feb. 1883.

John T. Prior, 2nd Feb. 1883.

14

464. '\Vhy ?-It is this way, if you apply so much pressnre, say 5 lbs., and you want any more you can get it ; running in with the other brake, when you apply you give all-that is the difference in them.

465. Have you found much difference in the jerkiug of the trains bctweeu the tWcl brakes ?-I could not say that. If you work the brake pr •pcrly you can w:.•rk it with•; ut jerking the train.

466. Have you found the pumping engine t•J 8tick in the 'Ye!<tinghoHsc brake ?-I have. 467. What is done then ?-I give it a kn•lCk with a bit of wood on the t•'P· I tmnd it was only

for want of tallow, and on one occasion I to:Jk the lubricator cap !dl:; and p?;avc it some tallow. 468. Have you run past stations with the Westinghonse brake ?-.Xo. 469. How long were you in getting into the m >de of working it ?-About three or four trips. 470. I suppose s:1mebody showed you ?-Yes, :Mr. Campbcll was on the engine. 471. With the Wouds brake, had you any difficulty in learning the manipulating ?-.Xo. 472. Did any one train you then ?-Yes. 473. Who ?-I forget his name. Trott I think. I think he was :1 driver. 474. Have you generally worked the brakes without any person riding on the engine to direct you?­

When I first started I hnd them to direct me, but afterwards I wurked them myself. 475. Suppose you go uut with the Westinghouse brake this afteruouu, would any one ride with you

as a rule ?-No. 4 76. They might or they might not?-Yes ; generally they ride in the van or in one of the compart­

ments, but at first they come on the footplate. 477. Have you ever known the guard apply the Westinghouse brake with the van?-Not with my

train. 478. Does he touch his hand brake ?-No. 479. By Mr. Campbell (through the Chairman).-After c1miug back from Brighton with the brake

engine of a non-brake train, and not having had water at Brighton, what depth of water would be left in the tank ?-It depends upon which engine I had. If I had ono of Rohh;on's engines I would have some water left in the tanks, with the small engine 21. I liked to take a ur,Jp of water, because ten carriage;; is a long train for a small tank. With 29 I have done comfortably.

480. But the tanks may be four feet deep. How much water would be left in those tanks after coming back from the trip with a non-brake train-a foot or nine inches ?-I believe there would be about a foot.

481. Then with the brake train, you take water at Brighton ?-Not with the Westinghouse, but with the Woods I certainly do.

482. Then how much water would you take in at Brighton ?-I run about a foot or a couple of feet in the tanks.

483. Then how much would be left in the tanks at Melbourne in that case ?-:From six to nine inches.

The witness withdrew.

John Thomas J>rior examined.

484. Bz1 the Board.-What are you ?-An engine man. 485. Where do you work ?-:Melbourne ; running to Williamstown. 486. Have you been a driver long ?-About five years. 487. Have you had any experience with the Woods brake?-Yes, about five months. 488. Any experience wit.h the W estinghouse brake ?-No. 489. Have you used the Woods brake regularly for five months ?-Yes. 490. And always between Melbourne and Williamstown and back ?-Yes. 491. Has it ever failed on the road ?-I have had two partial failures. 492. What were they ?-Once at Footscray I had the proper amount of pressure shown on the

indicator and I applied the brake, but it did not hold properly. 493. What would be the full amount of the pressure ?-About 130 lbs. 494. The brakes did not go on the wheels sufficiently hard ?-Not sufficiently to stop the train at

the platform. 495. And you ran past the station ?-Yes, very nearly a train length. 496. Did you discover why they did not hold ?-No. 497. Was there any leakage of water ?-No. 498. Did it do the same again at the next station ?-No, it held all right afterwards. 499. Do you think you were too long in putting the brake on in front of the station ?-No; I think

the brake was applied in plenty of time. 500. It never appeared to you what the cause was ?-No. 501. What was the other occasion ?-At Spottiswood I applied the brake in plenty of time. I had

plenty of pressure, and it did not appear to hold properly, and we ran nearly a train length past. 502. What kind of weather was it during those failures ?-Fine weather. 503. Rails dry ?-Rails dry. 504. And on this occasion at Spottiswood Jid you discover what the cause was ?-No, there was no

cause apparent. I could not see anything wrong. 505. And yet the brake held at the next station?-Yes. 506. Are those the only occasions on which you have had failures ?-Yes, those are the only

occasions on which I have had failures. I have had pipes come off on the road twice. 507. What happened then ?-The connecting pipe between the engine and the van, and the train

stopped (lead. 508. What did you do in that case ?-I uncoupled all the brakes off, and ran without a brake until

I got to Williamstown. 509. That happened twice, you say ?-Yes, once going into Newport, and once coming home into

Footscray. 510. Did the pipes simply part from the connection ?-Yes, just peeled off the connection. It was

rather short, I suppose.

15

511. You have not found the iron pipes nor the indiarubber give way on account of the high pressure?-No.

til2. Have you worked engines without the brake on this same road ?-Yes. 513. Do you find the brake consumes much more water in the run between Melbourne and Williams-

town and back ?-No, not a quantity when the brake is in good order. 514. The train of course will be a little heaYier ?-Yes. 515. Does that cause much more consumption ?-A little, I think. 516. How about fuel a little m,,re fuel. 517. What is the length d the double trip, there and back ?-Eighteen miles and a half. 518. How much fuel would it consume-suppose you had one engine working the brakes train, and

another that had no brakes but the hand brakes, what would be the additional consumption in fuel for that mileage ?-I could not say exaetly.

519. I do not want it to a pound, but your opinion ?-About half a bag of coal difference in the uouble trip.

520. You use eoal on that line?-Yes. 521. What would be the weight of that-half a hundred weight ?-No, one hundred weight. They

are supposed to be two hundred weight bags. I do not know the exaet weight. 522. You think it would consume one hundred weight of eoal more ?-Yes. 523. And how much water ?-I have never found much difference. 524. How much wnter do thnse engines carry ?-I do not know the quantity the tank holds. 525. Can you the number of the engine with the brake trains ?-I have used number 20,

number 40, and number 28. 526. Are they tank engines, saddle, or side tanks ?-Number 40 has side tanks, and 20 and 28 are

snddle tanks. 527. Do you fill your tanks in Melbourne ? -Yes, with the saddle tank in Melbourne. We fill in

Melbourne, and go there and back and never take water there. 528. With brake trains or not?-Yes. 529. The side tank engines where do you fill ?-With the biggest load we have, we take water at

Williamstown as well. 530. How much do you think you put in at Williamstown ?-It uses about half the water tank

going there with number 40. 531. So you have to p11!. in half a tank at Williamstown ?-Yes, very nearly that. 532. Would you follow out that same plan if you had no continuous brake train behind you-suppose

you had an ordinary train ?-I have never had No. 40 without, but I would take water there with No. 40. 533. Would you have to put in about as much ?-Yes, I think so. 534. Of course the brake train must consume some water?-Yes. 535. Do you require to watch your boiler pressure much more closely when driving with the Woods

brake tmin than driYing a similar engine without the Woods brake train ?-No, I do not think it would make mueh uifference.

()36. You would simply keep the boiler pressure up in any case ?-Yes. 537. How do you stop the train when coming into a station-Uo you apply the hand brake first?­

Yes, we steady it with the hnnd brake and 40 has a steam brake. 538. Then what is the operation you perform in going into a station first, as fnr as the brake goes?

-Steady with the hand brake and then when I think I get within a proper distance I put the Woods brake on.

539. Do you apply the steam brake in such cases ?-When we have it on the engine, I use it instead of the hand brake.

540. Y on steady with that and when you have taken sufficient distance out you apply the Woods brake to the whole train ?-Yes.

M,l. By 111r. Oarnpbell (through the Chairman).-You haYe said you do not see much difference when the brakes are in good order-do you see much difference in the consmption of water when they are in average order I do not see much difference in the consumption of water.

542. Taking the average speed before applying any brakes, what do you think the average speed would be on going into a station ?-I should say twelve or fifteen miles an hour. I am speaking of before you apply any brake-when you shut oft steam for instance. About fifteen miles an hour I should say.

543. Then what will the speed be after npplying the hand brake and just before applying the ·woods brake '!-About twelve miles an hour.

544. Then what distance will you stop in after applying the Woods brake ?-About a train length, I should say.

545. At twelYe miles an hour you think you stop in about 250 feet-that is about a train length ?-Yes.

546 7. By .bfr. Woods (through the Chairman).- What are the other fitted with, the saddle backs nre all fitted with the screw hand rack.

none of the engines fitted with an automatic bmke ?-No. The screw hand rack or the steam brake ?-The steam brnke is only on 40-all the rest the

The witness withdrew.

James :Morrow examined.

G50. B.lf the Board.-What are you ?-Railway guard. 551. Where ?-On the South Suburban line. 552. Whore are you running ?-BeLwoen }1elhourue aud Brighton. 553. Which brake do you generally apply there ?-We haYe always had the ordinary brake till within

the last few months, when we have had the two continuous brakes. 5M. Have you used both of them ?-Yes.

John T. Prior, WUinutd,

llnd Feb.l863.

James 'l\forrow, 2nd Feb. 1883.

Jamcs ::\fonow, <'Ontinued,

2nd r'eb. 1883,

16

555. Which have you seen most of?-We have had more of the W oous brake than we have had of the W estinghouse brake.

556. Have you used the W estinghouse lately ?-Yes, within this last week or so. 557. And have you been using the W ocds lately?-Yes, up to the same time. We change the trains

so often. We have one on one trip and perhaps the other on the other. We come into town in one train and cross over the platform to take out another.

558. Do you ever apply the brakes ?-No. 559. You do not require to put on any then ?-On one er two occasions I have seen with "\Voods

brake; he was going to overshoot the station, and I have used the ordinary hand brake to assist the steam. 560. Ordinarily you do not deal with the brakes at all ?-No, we leave it to the judgment of the

driver, and do not interfere with him. 561. How long is it since you first had the Wo:ds brake in hand ?-I suppose over twelve months

ago, and it stopped there for some time and then they took it away again. 562. Where did they take it to ?-To Spencer street ngain. They made up a train and sent it over

after the Jolimont acciuent-a trial train-and after some time it was taken back again ; and then after that they fitted up some of the lightest suburban carriages, which were mere adapted to the traffic than those sent from here.

563. Have you had experience of the Westinghouse brake since it came to the colony?-Yes, I have been using that about the same as the Woods. Since the Westinghouse has come on the South Suburban lines I have had as much of one as the c,ther. The "\Voods came first.

564. Have ycu ever had any breakdowns with the Woods brake ?-No, I have been in the train on one or two occasions when the driver could not use it through the pipes not being right or something. I never went into any experience with the matter.

565. You cann(,t recollect any occasion that she broke down ?-No, none. 5GG. The train never stuck on the road when it was net wanted ?-No, not with me. We had to

back her, we could not use it through something going wrong with the engine, but never broke down on the road.

5137. And with the Westiughouse brake, have you ever had any failures of the kind ?-No, none. 568. What is your experience as to the speed with which the two trains approach stations in

practice, is it at the same rate ?-About the same rate. 569. Is there any difference in the vibration the passengers were the first to notice it. In

the van you do not feel it so much. The passengers first drew my attention to it, that when the Woods brake train stopped there was always a nasty j{tr.

570. Yc;u cannot speak of that from your own experience?-No, you do not feel that in the van so much.

571. We want your own experience now and not what passengers say ?-Of course in the van ycu could feel more with the Woods than the Westinghouse.

572. How do you account for that ?-Not being any way practical, tlJC only thing is that one stops more suddenly than the other.

573. Do you find that the W cods brake in practice draws the train up more suddenly than the Westinghouse ?-Yes.

574. Do you ever find that the train has a difficulty in starting from the road-side stations with the Woods brake ?-Yes.

575. Why ?-Well, they do not seem to be able to get the brakes off. It takes some time for the water to pass through, I supp~·se.

576. Is that the ccmmcn practice for the trains to be delayed ?-No, only on two or three occasions it has taken se me time before she coulu start. Not understanding it, I have asked the driver what was the matter, and he said nothing much, that he would start directly.

577. I suppose fur anything you know the delay might have been caused by any other cause ?-Yes, he said he could not get the brakes off-that there was something wrong.

5 78. So you find the W estinghouse train more lively than the Woods train?-Yes. 579. More easily dealt with ?-Yes. 580. How is that, does the other seem to drag on the read, or what ?-The one clears her wheels

better than the other. 581. Have you a gauge in the van?-Yes. 582. What pressure does it generally show ?-About 70 lbs. 583. That is the W cstinghouse ?-Yes, we have no gauge in the van for the Woods brake. 584. Have you eycr seen the brake applied from the van by any one?-Yes. 585. Who generally rides in it?- The agent, or one of the gentlemen who goes with the brake. I

do not know his name. He always travels with the trains since the brake has been in the van. I only saw him applying it on one occasicn. You have to put on extra carriages some times. There are ten can·iages, and we have to put on two or three more sometimes, and that cuts off the connection, and then they take off about 50 lbs. in the train, and on arriving at the Brighton beach he applies the brake.

586. Does he always travel in the van ?-Yes. 5S7. On every train ?-Yes. 588. What is his duty tht>re ?-To see that nothing goes wrong. I suppose he is in charge of the

brakt>, fr, m the infcrmation I got. 589. Who is it-the fitter?-Yes. 590. Does he travel in the front or the hind van ?-The front always. 591. And in stepping at stations does he always put the brake on in that way ?-Never interferes

with it. That was the only time, and then, of course, she was not connected with the engine at all. 592. By .1l1r. Campbell (through the Chairman).-Is there a man who runs with the Woods brake

similar to the man you refer tu ?-Yes. 593. B.IJ the Board.-Is he a fitter also I believe he is. 59±. What is his duty ?-Just to see that everything goes all right. 595. Does he apply rho brake ?-I have not seen him. I have seen him assisting with the ordinary

hand brake.

17

596. Have you observed whether there is much occupation for these men-are they required to keep the brake in orrler at any time ?-No, I have not seen them required yet when travelling. What they may have d::ne when the train is shunted away I cannot say.

The witness withdrew.

W:illiam Trott examined.

597. Bv the Board.-What are you ?-Engine-driver on the Main line-Melbourne to Sandhurst. 598. What engine do you generally work ?-Latterly, No. 58. 599. Is she fitted with the continuous brake ?-Yes. 600. Which ?-The hydraulic. 601. The Woods ?-Yes. 602. Have you had any experience with the Westinghousc at all ?-None whatever. 603. Are all the carriages you take behind you fitted with the Woods brake ?-As a rule; there

may be perhaps one or two, as an exception. 604. Do you use the Woods brake when you are stopping at stations on the road ?-At all times. 605. vYhat do yon do now in order to stop a train-first?-With theW oods brake, I just cut off the

connection between it and the train. 606. But have you got the hand brake as well ?-I have. 607. On the tender?-Yes. 608. Do you apply that ?-To steady on the gradients and assist in pulling up after, but nothing

more. 609. In drawing up to a station ?-I may use it to assist to pull up H required. 610. Before you apply the other ?-No, after I apply the continuous brake. 611. Suppose you put the continuous on too soon and stop short of the station, what do you do ?­

Release it ann pnt it on a second time. 612. How long have you worked this brake ?-I think continually for the last two years. 613. Have you ever found it stick up on the road with you ?-I found it fail three times, and each

time I reported it, and my running sheet will show it. 614. What was the nature of the failure ?-I think twice some foreign substance had got into the

valves and stopped the communication coming back, and I think on one occasion the hose broke-matters that were easily rectified.

615. Was that when you were running?-The hose w&s. 616. What did it do ?-Pull me up. 617. Where was that ?-Between two stations. 618. Did the hose break or come uncoupled ?-It pulled out and came right away. 619. The fastening was not secure ?-It occurred between two vehicles, and the brake went on right

throughout. 620. Did you ever know the guard put the break on ?-No; it is not possible with the train I run.

There is no connection between it-they are not fitted from the van on the train with me. 621. There arc no fittings in the van for it ?-No, none that I am aware of. 622. Were you on the same work before you had this continuous brake ?-Yes. 623. You ran from Melbourne to Sandhurst previously?-Yes, with the same train. 624. What engine did you run on ?-I have run various engines. I was running, before I had the

train connected, with No. 64 engine. The engine at that time was fitted for the continuous, but we did not get the continucus brake on the train.

625. Was No. 64 a similar engine ?-Yes, a sister engine in fact 626. Have you found that there was much gre&ter consumption of water in the engine fitted with

the vV oc,<ls brake ?-There must be more consumption, but I h&ve net been able to perceive the difference. 627. Has it not shown itself ?-No perceptible difference that has led me to take additional water. 628. Have you found the trains heavier to haul ?-N c, n0t unless the break has been defective. 629. Then, in point of fuel, do you require to burn much mere fuel ?-I do not think it ; but I

cannot speak as to that, because these last two years-I may say since I have had the brake-my trains have been much heavier through branch lines being opened, and I cannot judge of that.

630. Huw d< es it affect your pressure now ; have you t 1 keep the boiler pressure up more than you would othcrwbe du when you have not the brake train behind you ?-No ; in fact I consider any engineman that studies the benefit of his engine will keep it up to its full pressure as near as possible.

G3l. Supp. se going down a bank five miles long, you would n-::t keep your engine at high pressure? -I like tu keep it between 120 and 130, as it is more beneficial than keeping different pressures in the b:1iler.

632. Is it not usual when going down a bank to let the fire down, and clean it and get it up again? -Net with me. I do not keep dcJWll my fire to any great extent. With a mile bank they get cleaned.

633. Suppccsc you had a bank between twelve and fifteen miles long, would you keep the engine up to full pressure?-The engine would still be kept to 120.

634. vVculd yon ?-I sh•mld consider myself justified in SJ dJing. 635. All the way down the bank ?-All the way down the bank. G36. I am asking you now in relation t·1 an engine with· .ut any brake train behind you. Suppose

you hat! f,uud you did not require, on accmnt of the brake pressure, t1 keep it up?-I should maintain the prcssmc f· r the benefit uf the b:Jilcr, and if I had that as an alternate pressure, the greater pressure in my builcr w. ulcl ]Je mc:rc beneficial to me if I had to reverse my engine.

6:~7. By Mr. Campbell (through the Chairman).-ls there any means of cutting off the brake pipe from the engine pump by valve or cock. Can you put water into your brake pipe quite distinct from the water you put into the boiler or vice versa ?-No.

()38. And, therefore, when you wish to cut off the connection to the brake pipe, you must also cut ofi the mmncction to the boiler ?-I do not exactly understand the question.

C?.C!. Snppo~e you had full pressure in the brake pipe and did not want to put any more water in, but wrcntcll to put some water in the boiler, could you do so without putting more water into the brake pipe ?-Yes; by using the reverse pump.

BRAKES BoARD. C

James Morrow continued.

2ntl Feb. 188~.

William Trott 2nd Feb. 1883.

Willtam Trott, continued,

2nd ~'ob. !8o3.

Wllllam Wemyss 2nd Feb. 1883.

18

G40. As to the practice on the Sandhmst line, do you keep the connection with the brake pipe fully up the whole time ?-It is connected just above the midtlle valve, aml it is always open. \Ve have no method of ~lmtting off except with a nut, and there is no passage through, unle,;s the valve is working.

641. Do you always keep the pump working ?-Not unless I w:1nted it. 642. Is it the case that, running from one station to another, after lniYing put the brake on at this

station, you may run to the next station or nearly to it with al;out GO or 70 lbs. pressure in your brake pipe ?-Yes.

643. 'fhat you only pump up the pressure to apply the brake when getting into the station ?-When I require it ; that is my usual practice. I keep a sufficient pressure in my brake that I can use it if I want to. I make a practice of never the feed on the brake side only for my brake power.

644. Then if any emergency should arise to apply your brake between stations you have no brake to apply ?-Yes ; I have always sutlicicut power for that.

645. You have ~aid the pressure comes to 60 or 70 lbs. ?-I beg your pardon ; you said that, and I did not contradict yon. \Vhatevcr pressure might come down after applying the brake, I allow that to run; and if it is lower than I think effective, I put a little more on.

646. What is the pressure that is efiective ?-70 to 100 lbs. 647. What is the pressure you apply to the brake coming into the stations ?-130 lbs., if I can

get it. 648. Never more ?-If it gives more, I do not object to it. 649. "What is the lowest pressure you have seen, as far as being applied is concerned ?-It would

depend on the number of vehicles. I have seen it fall back to 70 lbs. from 130 lbs. 650. By Mr. ff-oods (throu,qlt tile Chairman).-Supposing a case-that you were running down a

15-mile bank, and you saw some obstruction, and wished to reverse your engine with or without a con­tinuous brake ?-If I had a continuous brake, and if I saw any obstruction on the road, I would first apply the continuous brake with the engine brake, and likewise the tender brake, and I would open both sand pipes, and if I foun(l ;;till I was failing I would reverse the engine.

651. Is that any reason for your keeping up the pressure in the boiler ?-No. The reason for that is because I would stop the exorbitant extent of expansion and contraction which would otherwise occur.

652. By the Board.-Suppose you were, from some cause or other, obliged to let down the pressure in your engine to 60 lbs. Suppose you had a burst-tube, would your brake be applicable then ?-I have not lmd that experience, but I think so. I might bring to memory the last time I was going to Sandhurst, when I had the necessity to stop my train. The eap of the blast-pipe went ofl; and I tried my best, while I was running, to fix the cap, and could nut. I put the hook on it, and it eanted on one side; and I went to Keilor Hoad with 40 lbs. of steam.

653. Did you try the brake ?-No, I pulled up without any brake. 6M. Now assuming tha,t you had another brake on, which you could apply without any reference

to boiler pressure at all in going tbwn a bank, ycu wcuhl then see you had full pcwer (,ver the brake, supposing the brake was wcrked at 80 er lOO lbs. pressure-full pc;wer in ycur brake cylinder, irrespective of your boiler pressure, dd yuu understand?-Yes.

655. ·would yt~u, in such a case, m11intain ycur bciler pressure ing down the 15-mile bank?-Yes. 656. Suppose you had to clean your fire, where WGuld ycu tu clean it when running ?-If I

had to clean my fire, it would be while there was a loss of ~team, pressure in the boiler was down. 657. I asked you if yen had to clean your fire when running, where yon would prefer tu do it-going

down or up a bank ?-Going down a bank. 658. Does that ever happen in your experience ?-I have had to elean up because of ba,l fuel. 659. And you choose a bank for that ?-Going down a bank.

The witness withdrew.

William W emyss examined.

660. By tlte Board.-What are you ?-A guard. 661. Where are you employed just now ?-The South Suburban line. 662. Where are you running to ?-Brighton. 663. "What trains do you work ?-I work the Westinghonse and the Woods brake. 664. Alternately ?-Yes. 665. How long have you done so ?-Since the \Vestinghcnsc was on, and the Woods. 666. How many m•mths would that be ?-I shcnld say !tbout six months r;inee the \Vestinghcuse

came on ; and I worked the Woods brake longer than that. 667. Have you always found the W omls brake reliable-has it stuck up on the r::acl wit.h you ·?-It

has never stuck np, but it has run past stations. 668. Was that when you were applying it or the driver?-When the driver was applying it. 669. Have you ever applied it frcm the van yourself ?~I have tried to assist the driver i11 stopping

at a statitln. 670. How ?-By turning the handle-putting on the continuous brake-assisting him. 671. From the hind van ?-Yes, the trailing vnn. 672. vVhat effect had that ?-I was led to believe it ~-~::we inerea~ed power. f)/3. Does any one travel with you in the van ?-Mr . .:\IcTaggart-he is on behalf cf "\Vocds brake. fJ74. The fitter?- Yes. fi75. Has he given ycu instructions about using the handle in case of running past staticus

he explained to me that by using this handle it made the brake me re effective. (l7G. Have you fuund much j.,lting with the Woo(ls brake in running lt j.:Hs when ycu are

pulling up. Gi7. Do vou think it. dccs S(} uwrc than the vVestinghou~c ?-y cs, I dD.

fJ78. Ha;e you f. uml that tho \Vcstinghousc lmvc -any Rt ppngc~ c·r breakages er damage~ ?-No, not while I was with it.

Gi\l. Have you ever applied the Westinghouse bmke J'rnn the van ?-N(>. GSO. ·Have you ever seen any one do so ?-No. G81. Is there anybody travelling with you in the van ?~Not with me; he travels in the front van

19

GR2. ]]!! 3fr. Cwnpbell (tkrou.r~h the Chai·rm.an).-The handle which you tmned to ns,:i 't the brake pnl!in~~ up, was it the handle of the 'Vootb brake or the ordinary hand brake uf the van ?-The unlinary

hand brake • f !he nm. G~\:3. Then Y·'U u.,c the wheel lmmlle the wheul handle.

The witness withdrew.

Henry N ea! examined.

,;p.J.. 11.11 the floanl.-\Vhat are y :u ?-A gnnrd on the Hob,nn',; Bay line. (iH:). 'Vhero du ydn run generally 't-Betwoen :\Iolbcmme and Brighton, and to Bnlaclava. GS!i. Have you had much experience with the ·woods and 'Vestingh·:me brakes ?-I have had it

seveml times. G87. What do you mean hy "several timc:o" ?-Of course we take shift and shift about, just

ace :nlin<r t ' h<>w the tmiu is brought in f,;r ns tn wcrk. r;8s. Has Y· •ur experience 1~un over severalm:mths ?-Y cs. • liR9. Y "a ha Ye had sufficient experience t.> form opinillll~ on it ?-I believe I have. ()90. Dl yuu ever apply the brake yoursel.f I never have any occasion to. l;!Jl. D,1 you ride in the frunt or the rear van the roar van on the up journey and in the rear

on the down. G9:!. Ynn nre always in the rear of the trnin then ?-Yes. (i93. Have you ever known the Wood:; brake fail on the road at all ?-The only fniling of the

·woods brake wat~ that on one occasion it was not used on account of sufficient pressure of "team not being avnilable.

694. Was that in coming from Brighton or in going to ?-Going to. 6!JJ. '\V us it not used after it left Melbourne ?-It was used at Richmond and not at South Yarra. fi\J6. "'hat was the cau;;e of thnt ?-Ire said he could not get sufficient steam up-" hi~ engine

would not steam." That was the remark. 697. Who was the driver ?-Griffiths. 698. Have you ridden with the Westinghouse as well'?-Yes. ()!)\), Du you know of any failures with that ?-Not sinee I have been in charge of the train. 70n. Do they appear to work equally smnnthly ?-I must say there is a little difference. 701. 'Vhich is the Sm>Jother of the two ?-The vrestinghouse i5 the smoothest. 702. Have you found any difficulty with either cf them in getting away from stations when you

want tc~?-No. 70:J. They Loth seemed to 111low the train t:} start at the pl\lper time ?-Yes. 701. Do ynu feel there is any roe. 'il in tho train when the brake is taken off in the Woods brake?­

There j,_ a kind "£ sudden stoppage as the train just pulls up, it gives a rebonnd. 705. Dnes the Westinghouse do that ?-I have never felt it. 70G. When the bmke is released do you find. anything of that kind when you are in the van, that

there is n sm1tlcn jerk in the vehicle at all ?-No, I have never experienced that. 707. Neither in the one or the other?-No. 708. By Jllr. Woods (through the Chairman).-Werc you on the Hobson's Bay line at the first

application uf the ·westinghouse brake-were you guard of the train ?-I was guard there then. 70\J. In that train ?-No. 710. F(lr two or three trains afterwards ?-It might have been four weeks after. 711. What happened to the draw barH of the draw springs at that time. Can you tell what occurred

then after the first application of the Westinghouse brake ?-I do not understand that. 712. Were there any hreakages ?-Not t.o my knowledge.

The witness withdrew.

J ames Willett examined.

713. By the Board.-What are you ?-A driver. I am driving at present on the Essendon line. 714. What distance do you run ?-Five miles each way. 715. How long hnve you been on that duty ?-I have been on there about seven months. 716. Have von a continuous brake train ?-Yes. 717. Whose ?-TheW oods. 718. Have you had any experience with the 1Vestinghouse ?-No, none. 719. How long have you worked the Woods train ?-I have been using the '\Voods brake for over

three years regularly. 720. On this line ?-On the main line. I have been only on the Essendon line for seven months. 721. Which part of the main line did you work with the Woods hrake ?-Sandhurst to Melbourne. 722. Can you recall any occasion on which the Woods brake failed with you?-We had slight mishaps

with such as the coupling pipes bursting on a few occasions-not very frequent. Were those the iron pipes or the imliarubber ?-Indiarubber coupling pipes between the

carriages. 721. Did they burst or draw off ?-Burst, from old age, I suppose. 725. Were you running on those occasions when they burst ?-I have had them ; they only split

slightly, and then we can lap them as a rule. 7:26. That is not the question. I asked if you were running when those pipes burst ?-I had one on

one occasion running, just leaving Kangaroo Flat some time ago. 727. What did it do then ?-On that oecasion it pulled us up. We had a double train on-two

engines. 7:!8 • .Any other occasions on whieh you have been pulled up by the pipes rupturing ?-I only

remember one, it was the coupling pipe had slipped off-the coupling under the clip. 729. Where was that ?-Going up the Sunbury cutting; that had the same effect, pulled us up.

Those were the only two occasions I remember anything going wrong in that way.

\Vm. WemysE:, contiruJ.ed~

2ud Feb~ H~d::i.

HenryS' en!, 2uu nb. 1883.

James Wlllett, 2nd Feb. 1883.

• Jamcs Willctt, COf'l.iinued,

2nd Feb. 1883,

Wllll&m Clark, 2nd Feb. 1883.

20

730. The only two occasions you were pulled up ?-Yes . 731. Have you ever noticed that the wrought iron pipes fractured under the carriages ?-No. 732. What is the length of the train that you generally work on the Essendon system here?-We

vary from five to eleven carriages. 733. And on the main line what is the general length of them ?-They vary from five to nine

carriages with a single engine. i34. Do you consider that yonr engine with a brake train attached requires much more water than

when no brake train is attached ?-Well, it takes a quantity of water, but the quantity is not sn great as would be imagined.

735. Taking the line from here to Essendon-how much more water do you think you would consume in consequence of the brake train than if you went with a train that had no brake attached ?­I am hardly in a position to answer that.

736. I am only asking your opinion on that-not an exact statement ?-I scarcely know what quantity of water is contained in those iron pipes under the carriages-that would be all the waste each time the brake is put on.

737. Do you think it is a quant.ity that would be easily estimated by the driver-would he have to fill his tanks an additional time in order to work the brake train ; would he have to fill them twice instead of once ?-No, nothing like that.

738. Do you consider it consumes much more fuel ?-No, I do not think there is any extra fuel when the brake is in order.

739. What pressure do yon keep in your boiler when you work the brake?-We 11re registered at 130 lbs. ; we work it 11s near that as convenient.

740. Suppose they gave you an old engine which only carried 90 lbs. of pressure to do this work in the train, could you work the brake by that?-Yes, we could work the brake with 90 lbs., I believe, but it would not be so effective as with a higher pressure.

741. It would not stop in the same time ?-No. 742. By Mr. Omnpbell (through the Chairman).-What is your experience when on the Sandhurst

line-to carry full pressure on the brake pipe when running from station to stat:on ?-We carry equal pressure to what is in the boiler down an incline.

743. At all times ?-Yes, that is as a rule; because we do not know any time that we might be required to use the brake, and, if we did not, I do not think I should be doing my duty.

744. It was your practice to keep pressure at all times on that line ?-Not the full pressnre that the engine is registered to, but from somewhere to 100 to 120 lbs.

Tl1e witness witl1drew.

William Clark examined.

745. Bll the Board.-What are yru ?-A driver. 746. Where ?-The Victorian Railways. 747. What part of them ?-At present I am running up theN orth-Eastern line to Seymour from

Melbourne-goods trains.

years.

7 48. Have you had any passenger train experience ?-Y os. 7 49. Where ?-Williamstown. 750. How long is that since ?-About twelve or fifteen months ago. 751. Previous to that you were running the brake train, I suppose ?-Yes, I was on those about two

752. With the Woods brake?-Yes, 753. Have you had any experience with the Westinghonse at all ?-Never. 754. Can you call to mind any occasions on which the Woods brake failed with your trains ?-Once

or twice. 755. What happened then ?-On one occasion it was not on account of the brake at all, it was the

indicator out of order. I started from Melbourne and I put the pump on, and it appears that there was something under bottom block, and it did not work. The indicator showed 120 lbs. to the square inch, and there was no pressure in the accumulators at all, but that was no fault of the brake.

756. I think you said two occasions, what was the other ?-That time I went by a couple of trains length, through there being no pressure in the accumulators ; but on the other occasions I went one or two lengths past.

7 o7. What was the last, occasion due to ?-I think there was a leakage in one of the ports under­neath the carriage.

758. Have you ever had any fractures of the connecting pipes or the pipes nnderneath the carriages in the trains you have taken?-Yes, on one occasion the hose between the ca,rriages burst.

759. What happened then ?-I had to stop. 760. That was between stations I presume?-Yes. 761. What pressure do you work yom boiler at with the brake train generally ?-li)O lb:o. to the

square inch. 7G2. And what pressure do yon generally carrJ' in the brake pipe ?-About the same I suppose. 763. That is on the Williamstown line you are speaking of?-Yes. 764. You have not had any experience with the brake on the long line8 ?-No, not on the long

lines. 765. How do you stop your trr.ins if you are going to stop at an intermediate station, afi regards

either the hand or the continuous brake i'-,J ust by applying the lever. 766. Do you use them both or only one ?-Well, that would all depend on circumstances. If tllc

train would stop short I might not put the brake on the engine at once. 767. I ask yonr general practice ?-:\Iy practice usually is to apply them both. 768. And which do you anJly the firtlt ?-The screw brake on the engine that wculd take the

weight of the engine off. 769. Then you apply the earrbge brake after ?-Yes.

21

770. Do you (lo that for the purpose of softening the action of the carriage brake ?-Yes, and take the weight of the engine off the coupling, so as not to make too much strain on the draw bar. .

771. Do you find it a delicate thin" to stop the train at the stations with the two brakes in actwn; 0 •

do you often mn beyond your expectations ?-No, I generally stop where I reqmre to stop. 772. It is not a trea.eherous brake in any way then 1-No, I think not. 773. You generally manage to get out of it what you want ?-Yes. 774. It does not deceive you ?-Well no, it very seldom deceived me. It would not always work

exactly the same, it might work better one day than another, but I would always be prepared. For instance, if the pressure gauge did not keep up to its usual pressure the amount of steam I have in the boiler, I should fancy there was a leakage somewhere, so that I would always be prepared.

775. From your experience as a driver would you prefer to stop your train by hand arrangements or by pressure brakes. Supposing you had the choice of two engines, one with the hand application and the other with the pressure brake, which would you choose ?-I would certainly rather have the pressure.

776. The continuous brake ?-Yes. 777. By 1~/r. Woods (through the Chairman).-Were you driving the passenger trains during the

wheat season of 1878 and 1879 on the ·williamstown line ?-I do not remember. 778. \V ere you driving any of the passenger trains while they were running regularly without brake

vans ?-I have run trains on the \Villiamstown line without brake vans. 779. For what length of time ?-That did not last long. I was on the Williamstown line at that

particular time when the brake vans were used for goods trains or something, and they were short of them. I was on the "\Villiamstown line then.

780. By the Board.-Can you say whether the Woolls continuous brake is sufficiently reliable without any action from the brake vans ?-I believe it is. I do not think the brake vans were ever used when they were on. I never knew the guards to use their brakes.

781. Are they used now ?-The vans are; but I do not think the guards use their bmkes.

The witness withdrew.

John George Winchester Wilmot examined.

782. By tlte Board.-What a1·e you ?-Surveyor. 783. Are you a surveyor in the Railway Department? -No; private practice. 784. Yon have been suggested as a witness here in reference to the working of the brake trains on

the Brighton lines?-Yes. I am a resident at Brighton. 785. Have you had long experience of the action of the brake trains on those lines ?-I come in

every day to my office, and go back every afternoon. 786. Do you always take notice of which brake train is running when you travel ?-Sometimes I

travel by one and sometimes another-the six minutes past four or the five train-sometimes earlier and sometimes later.

787. Do you know the difference between the two trains, the W estinghouse and the "\V oods, when you see them ? -Yes.

788. Do you from any difference there is in their action, when being stopped ?-I find that the W estinghonse brake is a smoother pulling up one than the other.

789. Has it any jerking action at all ?-Very slight jerking action with the Westinghouse. 790. Have you experinced the W ocds train in that respect?-Y cs. 791. Does it jerk?-Very much. 792. And in starting away has it any jerk ?-I cannot say that I have noticed in starting away;

but the bringing up is always attended with a jerk. I was in the train-the Jolimont accident train-and in the last carriage, and my impression was on feeling that accident that the Woods brake was on the train. Futunately I was one d the few not hurt.

793. Unfcrtunately it was not on ?-Unfcrtunately it was net en. I mention that to give an idea; it was a "lump!" "bump! " "jump!" feeling.

794. Did you accompany the trial trains at all ?-The first day I did. 795. Did you ride in the carriages that day ?-Net in the Wocds brake trials. I watched fr~m the

outside. 796. Did you ride in any of the succeeding trains ?-I rode in the Westinghougc carriage in the two

first until the "break-n-way test." 797. Had you any experience of the Woods trains on that day ?-No, I went down with the

W estinghouse train on that day. 798. It would be rather difficult, without taking some special observations, to know whether the

train was the vVoods or the "\Vestinghouse on the Brighton line ?-As a matter of fact I generally look. The difference between the fittings of the Woods and the Westinghouse is easily distinguishable. To gi,"e the public an idea which was which they had boards on the train.

799. Do you know why those boards ·were removed ?-I have no idea. 800. I suppose you have not been in either train when they have been stopped between stations

accidentally by the rupture of any parts ?-No. 801. Did you ride in the Westinghouse train the other day ?-Yes. 802. Did you feel any jerks at North Melbourne ?-I noticed the action of the brake that day was

very different to the action on the Brighton line; it was a very severe jerk going in to North Melbourne, and I had never felt anything of that kind.

803. Up and down through the bottom ?-Yes. I could not understand what was the matter; but I never felt anything of the kind on the Brighton line.

80·±. Were the speeds similar, think you ?-I fancy that the speed going to North :Melbourne that morning was not as great as we travel uetween stations on the Brighton line.

805. You did not go with us when we got that fine run of i2 miles ?-No. 806. By 1tlr. Woods (through tlte Cltairman ).-Do you think the jolting and the jerkin<r that,

according to general estimate, took place during the trial of the vVestinghouse brake were due to the0

driver

\VHI:am Clu.rk, continued,

2nd Feb. 1883.

J. G. W. WUmot, 2nd Fob.l883.

22

J. G. w. Yii'mot, being different to the ono thev usually cm plover! on the Tirighton lino ?-If I were a~ ked what my imprcssioP continued, ] I ll f I • • I l . ' .I . ~

2nu Fco. 1883. was as to t 1at, won l say 1t was t 1e actwn o t 10 cngmo-t r1 vcr.

Tllos. McEwan, 2nd Feb. 1883.

807. You think he was not so skilled as the man who o·L·norallv \Yorks the lJrakc on the snlmruan line ?-This may be an impression formcll after. J\fy idert was "'that t!J~rc was a severe jolt, and I thought this is not the sort of thing we have been ucct}stomed to on the Brighton lino ; and I nuttle enquiries about it and I was told it was a new engine-driver. I eoult1 not think it was the same man.

808. You do not think it could be due to working at a double pre~tmre ?-I do not care about expressing an opinion on that. I have not gone iuto the qnestion.

809. By tile Boar•d.-We shall be glad to have any information yon can to throw light on the question ?-There are numbers of men who live in Brighton who from choice select the V( estinp:honsc brake trains. I know one friend of mine who ont of: the \Vood,; brake train and wnib; until another train.

810. Is there any other point you think of?-I am here to answer any questions, not to express an opinion of the merits of the two brakes. There are lots o£ gentlemen who travel hy the Brighton train who would toll you just the same.

811. What we wnnt are facts, not mere sensations-facts as to absolute failure, or differc1JOes between the brakes ?--I do not know that I have over seen the failure of either. I waH rather interestell in the trial the other day, because I have travelled in ~ew South Wales, where the Westinghonso brake is used, and I never experienced the sensation in Xew Sonth '\Vales, in special trains and other trains, that I experienced in the train the other day, in going in to ~orth Meluourne.

812. Do you know \Vhether the New South Wales W estinghouse brake is the same as this Westi!Jg­house brake ?-That I could not say.

The witness withdrew.

Thomas McEwan examined.

813. By the Board.-What are you ?-An engine-driver. 814. Where are you engaged ?-On the 'Yilliamstown line. 815. Have you worked the 'Voods brake on the 'Villiamstown lines for any length of time ?-Ever

since they have been put on at first. 816. How long is that ?-Tietween five and six years. 817. Have you worked the trains fitted wi•,h the Woods brake lately ?-That is the only brake I

have worked. 818. How long have you had the brake trains in hand ?-From the commencement of them. 819. How long is that since ?-Tietwoon five and six years. 820. You mean you have driven the Woods train for five or six years on the Wil1inmstown line ?-

Yes. 821. Before that were you driving on the Williamstown line ?-Yes. 82;;!. The ordinary trains without the Woods brake the hand brake. 823. How long have you been driver altogether ?-About nine years last September. 824. Have you had experience on the Sandhurst line ?-I have had the main line to Sandhurst. 825. Have you been on the Williarnstown line all that time ?-All that time-about eight years. 826. Where were you driving before then ?-On the SanJhurst line-! had a few trips only-about

six months, I think. 827. Of course while you were on the Sandhurst line you were not driving the ·woods brake train?

-No. 828. Have you had any failures with the Woods brake train for the five or six years you have been

driving it ?-Occasionally. Sometimes I have passed stations a little bit, but not a real run past. 829. Have you ever been hauled up between stations ?-Once I was when the pipe burst-the

nozzle of the hose came off. The pipe did not burst, but it came off the nozzle through a defect of coupling.

830. When you have passed stations, what has that been caused by ?-Perhaps the brake would not have been holding well, or there was a leak.

831. How often has that happened ?-I could not say. 832. Once a week ?-Oh no ; not once a month. 833. Have you got a hand brake on your engine as well ?-Yes. 834. What engine is it ?-I have been driving No. 40 lately. 835. That has a steam brake on ?-Yes. 836. What is your practice when you are going into stations, which brake do you put on first ?­

'\Veil, I generally aim to stop with the Woods brake, and in case the train should be going to shoot too far, I keep the steam brake on reversed.

837. Referring to the screw brake worked by the fireman, do you use that at all ?-Not unless shunting.

838. But when you are going into stations does he not put it on at all ?-No, because they are wrought both on the same shaft.

839. Now where you have only the hand brake and the ·woods brake, which brake do you put on first P-The Woods.

840. And then you use the hand brake in the event of your being inclined to run too far ?-Yes. 841. You say that for about two years or three years before you had the Woods brake trains, you ran

the ordinary trains to Williamstown fitted with the ordinary hand brakes ?-Yes. 842. What engine had you at that time ?-I had several. 843. Then, when you took the Woods brake trains for the first six months, did you find that the

consumption of fuel was much greater ?-Well, it was a little, but, at the same time, when we got Woods brake, the trains were altered five minutes less.

84'1. Did you find the water consumption much greater ?-It was a little more, but at that time with tl1e ordinary trains they ran two trips to Williamstown ·without taking water, but we considered it safer to take water although I have run the two trips to Williamstown without taking water.

23

845. Do you think that the application of the Woods brake caused you to :fill up your tanks at \Villiamstown, whereas, without the \Voods train. yon would be able to run back to Melbourne ?-I would not take water at \Villiamstown nnless there might be a leak in the traiD.

SiG. You. do not know how many gallons those engines hold ?-No. 847. What pressure do you work your boilers at ?-It is regulated at 130. 848. \Vhat pressure do you keep in the brake pipe ?-.lust the same as the boiler, I have only the one

pump on. 849. Have you ever had a burst pipe ?-No. 850. By ]}fr. Woods (through the Chairman).-Do you remember some time ago, three or four

years ago, trains were run on that line without passenger brake vans ?-Yes, during the wheat busy season, when the vans were taken away.

851. How long did that continue ?-It was not very long, it might be a month, or.six weeks, or less. 852. Did the trains appear to be incommoded by the absence of the brake vans at all ?-I never

found nny difference. 853. vVhat number of passengers, can you say, go by those trains night and morning ?-I could not

say how many passengers, but our heaviest trains are equal to fourteen vehicles. !;54. Are they all filled?-Yes ; the 5.15 Up, every seat in it is occupied.

The witness witltdrew.

John Tyn-ell examined.

855. By the Bom·d.-\Yhat are you ?-A driver. 856. Where ?-Hobson's Bay-Melbourne to Brighton. 857. Have you been there long ?-About twenty-four years. 858. How long is it since you first drove the \Vestinghouse train there ?-About five months ago. 859. How long since you first drove the Woods brake train ?-1 never used it; I only just ran it

without the lwake. 860. Have you ever had any failures with the vVestiughonse brake train ?-No. 861. Not run past stations at any time ?-Never. 862. And the train never stopped on the way, I suppose ?-Never. 863. Have you always got it to answer as you required it ?-Yes. I have been running it every

day the last three months regularly. 864. Then, referring to yom experience before you had the \Vestinghouse brake train at all, which

would you mther be hooked to, the W estinghouse train or one that had no continuous brake ?-The \Yestinghouse.

865. \Vhy ?-Because I could take my time in going the road coming into a station ; I could come into it a little quicker and pull up far easier, and no jolting.

86G. Is there much extra work thrown on the engine-man by this brake ?-Nothing that I know of. 867. \Vhat high pressure do you aim at carrying in your reservoir ?-About G5 lbs. 868. Suppose you got the pressure np to 85 or 90 lbs., what is the effect then'? -I only use about·

5 lbs. to pull up in a 8tation. 869. Has it any effect in skidding wheels or jolting trains ?-No. I never used it more than 5lbs.

at a station. 870. Who trained you to use this brake ?-Mr. Cnmpbell was with me for nbout a week. 871. And then you were able to manage it yourself ?-Yes, and have been managing it the last

three month;;. 872. Did the pump ever fail with you ?-Never. 873. Have you found any difference in the consumption of fuel ?-No; I just use the same as when

I had no brake at all. 874. Do you use any more ?-Very little more. 875. Does the brake save any fuel ?-No; it is just the same. 876. By Jfr. Woods (through the Chairrnan).-Do you think that yon were driver of some of the

earlier trains with the W e;;tinghouse brake ?-I may have been, but not constant tts I have been the last three or four months.

877. I mean when the vVestinghouse brake was first introduced on the Hobson's Bay line, do you think you took some of those first trains ?-1 darcsay I did.

878. Do you remember any accidental fracture of drawbars or springs, or anything of that kind under the carriage;; ?-No; not to my knowledge.

879. Do you remember the \VestinghouKc train being removed for some purpose ?-No ; not to my knowledge.

880. By illr. Campbell (tl1rouglt the Clwirman).-As to No. 21 engine, is that engine inferior in steaming power-is there rmy difficulty experience(! by the fireman keeping the fire up ?-She does not steam as well as the present one. She is placed at !JO Ius. of steam., although I coul(l work the brake verv near as well a,'! vom·llelf on that one.

• 881. By the hoard.-You have worked No. 21 ?-Yes; I had five trips with her to Brighton on Sunday.

H82. \Yas there a difficulty in getting· away from stations have 90 lbs. of steam, I eould get 60 lbs. of pressure in my brake.

T!te ~citness withdrew.

\Villi am Griffirhs examine' l.

not the slightest ; as long as I

883. B.11 tlw Board.-\Vhat are you ?-Engine-driver on the South Snlmrhau line~. 88L \Vhich ~tation do you rnn to ?-To Brighton, Camberwell, nnd FlinderH street stat;ons. 885. How have you been driving therc?-Slncc the Hlih of la,-;t,.Jnly twelve month::;. 8Ht). Ha,·e you worked, dming that time, the \Ve,;tinghouse brake ?-I have. 887. Have yon worked the Woods bmke ?-I have.

Thos, McEwan continued,

2nd Ftb. 1883.

John Tyrrell, 2nd Feb. 1883.

24

WilliamGrit!iths, 888. Do you work them regularly every day ?-Kot every day. I was working the Westinghouse continued. b

2nd Feb. 1883, a out a month, I think, and since then I have been working tl1e YVoods. 889. I suppose you do not take the trains alternately each day?-No. 890. Referring to the Woods brake, the one you have in hand now, have you had any accident or

failure with it ?-On one occasion I reported a break-there was a leakage in the train, and I could not get up my pressure, and could not work the brake. The pump was working all right, the engine steaming well, but I could not work the brake. I could not get more than GO lbs. pressure, and that was no use. That did not work the brake, and I reported that ; and on other different occasions I have not been able to apply the brake on account of my engines steaming badly, as the pressure of the brake is regulated by the steam pressure on the boiler. I have gone into stations when I have had the brake coupled on the engine, and my engine steaming badly, and I could not work the brake, perhaps, at the first station going out of Melbourne, and I might be able to apply it at the second station.

891. What is the pressure that will work the ·woods ?-I have worked it as low as 100. 892. Will it not work at 90 ?-It might. 893. Have you not tried it ?-No. 894. Then you cannot say positively it will not work at anything less than 100 ?-No. 895. Y on said just now that on one occasion that brake failed because the pressure was only 60

lbs. ?-Yes. 896. Did you try it ?-No; I knew it was useless my trying it, as I had only 60 lbs. on the indicator,

although I could have driven my boiler with the pump of the brake train-! could not get more than 60 lbs. on.

897. You did not try what you could do with 60 lbs. ?-No. 898. Have you had any failure from breakages of pipes ?-On that occasion it was a leakage in the

train somewhere. 899. You do not remember any breakage of the pipes or unions ?-No; I have been that I could no1

apply the brake, owing to the engine not steaming well, at one station, and I could apply it at the next. 900. Does the guard help you at all ?-If I want his assistance I whistle. Two or three have come

to me to know why I do not use the continuous brake, and I said I would when I got enough pressure. 901. Have you got a hand brake on your engine ?-Yes. 902. Do you use that when you are going into stations at all ?-Yes, always. 903. Which of them do you use first?-The hand brake first to steady the train, and then the con­

tinuous brake when I think that I have run far enough, so that I can pull up on the platform nicely. 904. Have you had any instructions as to how to use a Woods brake ?-I have had a little from

men who were here with the first brake train, some twelve months ago, but as for being shown anything about it, it is only verbal instructions ; I have not been shown how to work the brake on the carriages.

905. Referring to the occasion when you said you could only get 60 lbs. of pressure in your brake receiver, what engine had you ?-No. 31, hut it was owing to no fault of the engine. It was the train, she has not got quite as much pressure as some. She has 110, and some have more. She has steamed badly when I have had bad fuel, or she is dirty after a long time of running.

906. Have you ever had any failures with the W estinghouse brake ?-No. 907. It has always worked satisfactorily ?-Yes, but I was not working that as long as I was

working the Woods brake. 908, How long have you worked the W estinghouse brake ?-I think a month would be the outside. 909. Which of the two do you find most handy for the engine-man ?-I consider the W estinghouse

the best. 910. Has the Westinghouse brake ever stopped with you ?-Never failed to act when it was

applied. 911. Has the Westinghouse engine never failed to pump when you wanted it to pump ?-No. 912. By Mr. Campbell (through the Chairman).-When the pressure in your receiver was 60 lbs.

what reason had you for not applying the brake ?-I found when I had applied the brake with 100 lbs. pressure that it has not been nearly as effective as at 110, and I thought where it was that low in pressure that it would not take any effect on the train at all.

913. That was your reason for not applying it ?-Yes. The witness withdrew.

Peter Tyrer examined.

PeterTyrer, 914. By the Board.-What are you ?-Engine-driver. 2nd Feb.l883· 915. Where are you driving now ?-Between Melbourne and Sandhurst.

916. How long have you been on that road ?-Ever since it opened. 917. How long is that ?-About eighteen or nineteen years. 918. Have you !JCI)n driving passenger trains chiefly ?-The last ten years I have been driving

passenger trains chiefly. 919. I suppose the trains you drive now are fitted with the Woods brake ?-Yes. 920. How long have you driven those ?-Ever since the brake has been on, since about five years I

think. 921. And you were driving the same sort of trains before you used the Woods brake ?-Yes. 922. What failures have you had with the Woods brake since you drove the trains ?-The first

failures were the valves getting a little gagged at times, causing a leak. 923. Under the carriages ?-Yes.

-924 .. What would Le the effect ?-It would put all the brake behind that leak on if it was a standing leak.

925. Has that occurred recently ?-No, we have not been troubled with the valves for some time. 926. Did those defects occur some short time after the brake was first put on ?-Yes, we had them

very often stuck at first ; it was dirt in the cylinders, the accumulators that used to gag the valves. I used to jerk them by increasing the pressur~ suddenly? and sometimes I could clear them and sometimes not, and sometimes I had to cut the hose off that carnage.

25

927. Have you had any recent failure ?-I have had two hoses blown off this last week. One I blame in using the injector in pumping, and once that it would not stand the pressure ; it came off just as I was going out of yard. The other was a horse box I picked up at W o?dend, and soon after l~~V:in~ th nose blew off the nozzle ; I turned the handles at Carlsrnhe and put the pipe on at Kyneton. lh1s IS not the pipe that would not stand the pressure, it was the pipe that blew off when leaving Melbourne yard that was defective, and when I put it on at Kyneton it had a cut in it and I had to carry lower pressure.

928. Have you had any accidents of a similar kind before then?-Yes; we have often hoses burst; they come off, when they have not been securely screwed on they would come off. My own engine hose blew off between the engine and tender-blew off the other day-it had not long been put on.

929. It came off the nozzle ?-Yes. 930. And have you ever found that the hose ruptured?-Yes; the hose we had at first was not

very good; but latterly they have been very good ; they only burst where they have been too long put on, and have a short kink in them, and almost a break in them.

931. Have you found the iron pipes give way ?-None with me. The copper pipes belonging to the engine were jolted off at the unions once or twice, the pipe to the accumulator.

932. Taking the month's experience-how often do you think you might be hauled up on the road, or stopped when you did not want to, by the Woods train ?-I might go a whole month and not go wrong once. My own engine pumps may not be up to the mark ; that was the cause yesterday.

933. Did you not get up the required pressure yesterday ?-I would have been through the station if I had the station to stop at; the injectors took too long to put on, and pump did not work.

934. What pressure can you call it ?-If I were running quick the pump will put the pressure up to 200.

935. How low a pressure can you use to put on the brake ?-The lowest I have tried it at is 60 lbs. because I was doubtful about the hose. In fact the hose was leaking at the time.

936. Did you get a little on ?-Yes, I managed to get to Sandhurst all right. Sometimes I had 70 lbs. in it, but I did not like to risk it any more because it was leaking.

937. At 60lbs. it works ?-Yes; but it takes a long time to pull up. 938. Is it much better than the hand brake then ?-Yes, because the hand brake is only on one

vehicle. If a man knows the pressure he is prepared, and put.s it on that much earlier. 939. You have not had any experience with the Westinghouse brake ?-No. I may tell that on

one occasion :Mr. Woods was on the train, and we had a burst hose. I usually put the injector on and pump the pressure up high in the accumulator, and turn the handles, and take the pressure out of all accumulators. To ;;ave stopping I emptied them. I can empty the accumnlator even if I detect a burst.

940. Referring to the time you worked the trains to Sandhurst, previous to having the Woods brake .applied, you had some years of experience as a driver on similar trains without the continuous brake, with nothing but the hand hra.kes ?-Ye::;.

941. What engine had you then ?-The same one I have now. 942. Can you give any reliable information as to the difference in the consumption of fuel of this

same engine under the two circumstances ?-No, I cannot ; if we have been taking our coal the same as we used to, I could do it to a nicety, because the coal was supplied in sacks and weighed, now it comes in bulk and is thrown on the coal stage, and you cannot tell.

943. Engine-men generally have a good notion of what they are doing ?-Yes; but you cannot rely on the quantities you get.

944. I did not ask as to a pound, but your opinion as to whether the engine with the Woods brake applied burns more fuel than it did when it had no vVoods brake train behind it ?-It does burn a little more.

945. Can you give an idea of how mnch ?-No, I cannot. Sometimes the brakes drag a little, and sometimes we are troubled with leaky boiler,;, und to use the lJrakes we have to put more water in them, and coming down the inclines the fires are low and we must keep them up to keep the engine plates from contracting or then she leak:.; more.

946. Do you consider the water you have to carry now is more ?-We use more lJecause we waste a lot.

947. Do you use double as much ?-No. 948. One-third more?-No, I think not one quarter. We were dreadfully hampered to pull trains

up before. 949. Have you any long banks on this road?-Yes; one from the Elphinstone tunnel to Castlemaine

-about five miles. 950, Is that the longest bank you have ?-I think it is as long as any of them. 951. What is the gradient there ?-One in fifty-six, I think. 952. All the way down ?-In some places a little heavier than others, but I have never seen the

section. 953. In going over this bank do you clean your fires at all ?-No. 954. vVhy ?-We nm through without cleaning our fire~, unless it was very inferior coal, from

:Melbourne to Sandhurst. We have had ccnl we have had to clean three or four times. 956. It is usual in going down n hank to let the pressure run down nnd do anything with the fires?

-Yes; hut when you have an engine up to a fnll head she would be leaking if you did not make the change before going over the top, and you have to make that change gradually to prevent theJplutes and stays giving way, so we go gradually np and ease the damper and put water in and ease the fires.

956. I mean when we arc coming down the bnnk ?-\V e have a little fire, and do not make it up till we want it.

9.57. Do you allow your pre,.;snrc to fall?- 'V c cannot help it al wnp. 958. What does it fall to ?-Sometimes to 90 lbs., nml very often they will make steam after that

going down an incline. 959. When it has fallen down to 90 lbs., what pressure will you have in your brake accumulator?­

I would have 130 l!Js. in it if I was running quickly, but if we are running slowly we can only have 90 lbs. 960. Do you require to keep the boiler pressure in going down a bank to keep the brake pressure up?

-Not always. If you are running quickly you can get the pressure up to anything. BRAKES BoARD, D

PelerTyl'lll', continued,

2nd Feb, 1888.

Wllllam ll!ller, llnd l"eb. 1883,

26

961. As a matter of fact, having these brake arrangements on your engine, does it cripple your free action with regard to the boiler in any way ?-If the boiler was leaky it would, but if sound it does not do them much harm ; it is only in the case of bad tubes or stays. It is not wise to put cold water in oftener than you can help, unless the fires are very good.

962. Then do you find that the engine-man's attention has to be more close and exact when you have the brake on your engine than when you were without it ?-I think it does require more attention because of the water. The pressure might rush in at random, and do his boiler harm. If he likes he can work his brake and work his boiler too without doing any harm.

963. I suppose you have not been on other railways than these ?-I was on the London and North• Western line.

964. What were you doing there ?-Firing and driving. 965. Had you any banks to work there ?-1 in 75 was about the heaviest. 966. Where was that ?-Warrington .Junction. 967. Was it a long bank ?-About two or three miles. 968. Did you ever experience on English lines that engine-men allowed the pressure to go down to

40 or 50 going down long banks ?-No; they had immediately to start from the bottom. I never went any very long ones there; not so much as here. l:<'rom "\Voodeml to Melbourne, with a heavy train we could :un all the way to Melbourne without steam.

969. That is a case in point. If you can do that with a heavy train hel1ind you why do you keep your pressure so high in the boiler?-We might be stopped at any station to do shunting.

970. You have to stop at every station on such a line ?-No, we run through some, but it would not do to let the steam get down too low.

971. Are the time-bills so arranged that you might be hauled up at any station ?-Yes; and the block system is in vogue here. You may be stopped at Macedon or Riddell's Creek and Lancefield road.

972. You have no express trains running right through ?-The trains I am running now are express. We only stop two or three times. The night train now is express from Kyneton ; the one I brought in last night.

973. What is the longest nm you have without stoppage after you pass Wood.end ?-From Woodend to Sunbury, and from Sunbury to Melbourne, and it is about twenty-four miles. ·

974. Do you keep on the steam ?-No. If there is a 11trong head wind and the train is light, we steam a little, but with a heavy train and a norlh wind we will nm all the way.

97 5. And in such a case you still keep the boiler pressure?-We keep a little for the brake. 976. A hundred and thirty pounds ?-We are not particular. If we come over the incline and it is

ninety, it increases a little after that. We have our dampers and gradually bring it up. 977. Did you always follow up tbat practice before the Woods brake ?-Yes; because I never knew

what might happen. I think it. should never go past ninety. 978. And you always followed that practice before you had the Woods brake ?-Yes. 979. You have made no difference in that respect ?-No. 980. By Mr. Camphell (through tlte Chairman).-How long do you think would be the life of a

hose-pipe on the engine-fair average time ?-It depends on the climate. It might be subject to a great heat in one place and cold in another.

981. Take your own engines in Melbonrne ?-You might go six and you might go twelve months before you want one. It depends on the wear and tear, and sometimes they kink, and there is a tendency to break then. If they could be brought round they would last longer.

982. By the Board.-If you found a hose had been on for three months would you make a request for a new one ?-I should not ask for a new hose-pipe if it was sound, but if the pipe had been taken off, which was the case when the new accumulator was put on, and the person doing so saw that it was not any good, I then blame him for not putting the old one on again.

983. How long had that been on ?-I do not know. I had been off duty twelve weeks. I think the accumulator had burst.

984. If they are putting water into the boiler coming down a bank is there any means of checking the pressure in the brake-pipe ?-No; not as long as you are using the pump. You cannot shut it off from the boiler, and you cannot shut it off from the accumulator.

985. By ~fr. fVoods (throu,qh the Clwirman).-Are you obliged to use that pump ?-I understand meaning to use the pump with the brake ; I use the other pump for the boiler alone.

986. Then in point of fact it is not wanted ?-No. 987. It is not wanted for the boiler ?-No; I would rather have the other pump going to keep the

brake pressure good. 988. By JJb·. Campbell (tlu·ough the Ckairman).-On an engine fitted with the brake-pipes-are

they fitted to the two or only one ?-Only one. The injector is on the' other side. 988A. On an engine fitted with two pumps with injectors ?-They are not connected with the brake

.-only one. Tile witness tt:ithdrew.

William Miller examined,

989. What are you ?-Fireman. 990. Where ?-On the Hobson's Bay line. 991. Which engine-mnn are yon firing for ?-John Tyrrell, No. 25 engine. 992. How long have you been firing there ?-In the Hobson's Bay line, three years. I was eight

months oH the Mordialloc line out of that time. \i!J3. Yon havB always worked the Westinghouse, and not the Woods brake there?-Yes. 994. You have no experience of the "\Voods bralm ?-No. 995. Did the Westinghouse brake give you any trouble ?-No. 996. Do you require to put your hand brake on at all in coming into stations ?-Yes. 997. Why ?-To steady the train. 998. Do you do that before you put the W estinghouse brake on?-Yes.

27

999. Does it make a great difference at all ?-The brake did not seem to have the power over the wu~'l· engine when it has the train connected with it, so I keep the engine close to the trains with the hand brake ~~N.lSJ!~~ to prevent a jar.

1000. Were you on the trains the other day at the trials?-Yes. 1001. Did you put on the hand brake then ?-No. 1002. Did you feel a jar?-Yes. 1003. D.o you think that was the cause of it ?-Yes. The hand brake would have kept the engine

steady. 1004. Do you require to put it on to keep the engine from overshooting the stations ?-No. 1005. Do you find the consumption of fuel is any greater with the Westinghouse engine than with

any other engine not having it ?-No, not at present. 1006. Has it ever been ?-When I first went to the engine she used to steam very bad. They used

to use more steam. · 1007, Had the brake anything to do with that ?-It might, because we used to run up very quick,

but the boiler was always at sufficient pressure when wanted, and since she steams well ; we use the same amount of fuel as an ordinary brake.

1008. Who keeps the pumping engine on ?-The driver. 1009. Suppose she sticks up-who attends to it ?-The driver. 1010. Have you seen him go outside to touch it up ?-No.

1011. 1012. 1013. 1014. 1015.

Essen don.

The witness withdrew.

William Dick examined.

By the Board.-What are you ?-Driver. Where?-On the North-Eastern just now. What station do you go to from Melbourne ?-To Seymour. What is the length of that ?-Sixty-one miles and a quarter. Where were you driving before you went there ?-Principally

1016. How long is that since ?-I was on the Essendon in July last.

on the Williamstown and

1017. Have you driven the Seymour train for six months ?-Yes, that is a goods train. 1018. You are driving a passenger train now?-No. 101!>. You have not a Westiughouse bmke at present under you ?-No. 1020. Then, coming back to the time you were on the Williamstown and Essemlon, how long were

you driviug passenger trains there ?-Three or four years. · 1021. Had you the Woods brake all the time?-Yes, except at holiday times when the trains were broken.

1022. What were you doing then ?-We had to do with our ordinary hand brake and the guard's brake. 1023. How often did that occur ?-Christmas holidays and Easter. 1024. Three or four days on those occasions ?-Y cs. 1025. Then during your experience of three ye~>rs on the Williamstown line had you any break-

downs with this brake ?-Nothing more than the hose-pipe bursting. 1026. Did that occur often ?-Not above twice all the time I was on. 1027. Twice in three years ?-Yes. 1028. That stopped you, I suppose ?-No. I ran till I came to the next station. The brakes did

not happen to be in such good order as they might have been. They allowed me to take the train on. 1029. Was it the engine hose-pipe ?-No, between the carriages. 1030. Did the hose-pipe drop off, do you mean ?-No, it burst half way between the carriages. 1031. All the water ran out ?-No, beeause I kept the pnmp going all the time. I was able to

keep the pressure sufficient to keep the brakes off. 1032. Was it much of a leak ?-It threw water up ab\lut fifteen or twenty feet. 1033. And keeping the pump on prevented the train coming to a stand?-Yes. 1034. Had you any mishap of a different character to that ?-I have had the nozzle drop out from

the clip-worked slack and the nozzle dropped down. 1035. Did that stop your train ?-No, I have never been stopped with the train. I have gone

round and pieked it up while travelling, and put it back in its place. 1036. But the water would run out of the end of the pipe ?-Yes, and you get a good ducking

while you are doing it. 1037. Did the water rushing out of the pipe not stop the train ?-No, we were travelling too fast. 1038. It attempted to stop it ?-You could feel your pressure going away when it dropped down. 1039. Then the brakes were gradually being applied ?-Yes, gradually working on, 1040. Did you ever run any distance past stations with this brake ?-Not past a station

altogether; I have gone as far as leaving the van on the platform. That is the most I have had run past with the engine and thirteen carriages. ·

1041. You might eaU that a run past ?-We do not call that a run past. 1042. How often did you do that ?-Only once. 1043. How was that ?-I think it was one of the plungers in the Yankee carriages was leaking very

badlv. . - 1044. Do you use your hand brake on stopping at stations ?-When we were on the tank engines

No. 40 was the only engine fitted with a steam lm1ke. 1045. How did you apply the hand Lmke ?-Alway~> put it on afterwards to prevent the engine

from rebounding back on the carriages. 1046. Do you use much more water now with the Woods train than you did without ?-We use a

good drop more. 1047. You say you had some experience in rnnning the train during tlw holidays without the,

Wooqs brake-did yotJ find much difference ?-:-:-A great dea,! of differenc{l in b~inl{ aM{) to pull up.

WltllamDick, Snd Feb, 1888,.

Wllllam Dick, ~

2nd Feb. 1888.

A.:U'red Trott, 2nd Feb. 1883.

28

1048. But in the consumption of water-had you to take water at any station ?-We usually ran through from Melbourne to Williamstown and back again, unless there happened to be any leak in the train or over fourteen carriages on. If we had to run a fast train back from Williamstown we might.

1049. That was when you had the brake train on ?-Yes. 1050. But when you had not the brake train on ?-We could run through without taking water on

all occasions without a brake train. 1051. Can you give an idea of how much water would be consumed by the brake train ?-I could

not say. 1052. As to fuel, is there much loss ?-I could not say that either, because before I went on the

Williamstown train, I never drove on the Williamstown till I went on with the Woods brake. 1053. The pump you generally fill the brake pressure cylinder with, uoes it get out of order, is it

any trouble to maintain ?-No, I have not found it so. 1054. By Mr. Woods (through tke Chairman).-About the coupling up when the pipe gave way,

did you pick it up again and get it connected before the train came to a dead stand-still ?-Yes, some of them are in the habit of putting grease under the lugs as they are rather stiff to lift up.

1055. The porters do that?-Yes, it is done at Wi!liamstown.

The witness withdrew.

Alfred Trott examined.

1056. By the Board.-What are you ?-Engine-driver. 1057. Where ?-At the present time on the Gippsland line. 1058. What trains are you driving ?-Goods trains. 1059. But before that ?-I was running on the North-Eastern line and on the Williamstown line

since the brake train was in vogue. 1060. Were you driving passenger trains on the main line ?-Only now and again. 1061. Then your experience with the Woods brake has been on the Williamstown line ?-Yes, at

the first onset, for about two years and a half. 1062. Aud how long did you drive there ?-About two years and a half. 1063. Did you ever run past any station while you were driving ?-The first morning I went out

with it. 1064. Every station ?-No, only North Melbourne, that was on account of the pipe connection with the

accumulator being broken inside of the union nut. It let all the water out ami we could not get any pressure with the water.

1065. Have you had any mishaps of that kind since ?-No. 1066. Always stopped at stations?-Yes, barring once that the piston came out of the cylinder at

the end of the American carriages. 1067. Did that haul you up we could not move the train till we disconnected the brake

again. 1068. Where were you ?-Spottiswoode. 1069. Have you had much experience of this indiarubber hose slipping off the nozzles ?-No ; if

anything, they burst. 1070. Have you found many of them burst ?-No; only now and again-three times while I was

on the Williamstown line. 1071. Did they haul your train up?-Yes, directly they break. 1072. Was the ·woods train in every-day work when you were there?-Yes, barring during

Christmas and New Year's holidays. They were taken off, and they ran on the main line, being short of carriages.

1073. What did you do then ?-Work the ordinary brake with the guard. 1074. Did you find much difference ?-The difference in pulling up. You would h1tve to take half­

an-hour instead of twenty-five minutes for the trip. 1(l75. Was it any easier work with the fire ?-I do not think there is much difference, because they

put more carriages on you. You had ten or twelve with the Woods, and seventeen or eighteen carriages with the other.

1076. You said you were in Hobson's Bay teaching them ?-Yes, five or six months. That was when it was first taken over on the Brighton line.

1077. Was there much difficulty in teaching them ?-No; just to show how to confine the pressure and put hoses on the connection, and all that. I think all of them were taught barring three.

1078. While you were there did you notice any irregular running in the tmins ?-No. There was a complaint there once, bnt it was on account of the draw-bar springs being too small-a new-made carriage with cane seats. The springs gave and caused the bars to split, so they put in the springs in that, and it has worked all right. It was a kind of ~Spiml spring instead of tlle draw-bar.

107!J. "What are the ordimn·y springs ?-The same as on the ordinary tender across on the beam con­necting the two bufiers and then there are others with iudiarnbber.

1080. You have had no experience of the Webtinghouse ?-No, I have looked at it over in South Australia for a week or two.

1081. How long will the accumulators underneath the carriages run without being emptied and re-charged with air ?-When I was on the Hobson's Bay line I emptied them every Friday, once a week, the engine every morning. I consider it was my duty to empty the engine every morning.

1082. ""\Vhen you were driving the engine on this "Williamstown line had you various engines in your hands ?-Yes.

1083. Did you keep one for the week ?-No, change every shift. 1084. Every day?-Yes, so it was safest to empty the aceumulator yourself and you knew it was

empty. 1085. By """tfr. FVoods (through tlte Chairman ).-Do you remcmher when some two or three years ago

there was a rush of wheat, and on the \Villiamstown line the tmins were worked without passenger brake vans ?-Yes, they were worked with the American carriage on.

29

I 086. Did they work well ?-Not so well as the brake. The iron on the carriages did not hold as well on the wooden brake.

1087. Was the iron brake with the Woods tmin ?-Yes, on the Woods train they were all iron brakes.

1088. We speak of the vVoods tmin on the Williamstown line when the brake vans were taken off during the rush of wheat ?-They worked just the same without the van as with the van. No inconveni­ence as far as the train was concerned.

Yes.

1089. The brake did its work just as well ?-Yes.

1090. 1091. 1092.

The witness withdrew.

Adjmtnwd to to-nwrrov; at haif-pa"t Nine.

SATURDAY, 3RD FEBRGARY 1883.

Present: W. THow, Esq., in the Chair ;

H. Horniblow, Esq., W. E. Batchclor, Esq.

Robert Buchauan Campbcll examine(l.

Bg the Board.-What is your profession ?-I am an engineer. For the Westinghouse Brake Company ?-At present. I presume it is the automatic W estinghonse arrangement which we have on these lines ?-·

1093. What are these pieces you have hronght hcre-[referrin,q to samples of the Westinglwuse brake apparatus J ?-A donkey pump and a driver's hrakc valve. I mn having a triple Yalvc brought.

1094. This is the hook published by the W estinghouse company in 1880-does it illustrate the appliances ?-Yes, and this hook is a later edition, though nearly the same thing-[ ltanding in a boo!< J.

1095. Is there any difference between the illustration~ in the 1880 book and that ?-There is no radical difference.

1096. Referring to the section at plate E in this book, is it the same ns the pumping engine which you have here?-Yes, that is the same as this pump here.

1097. Referring to the main cylinders in which there appears to be a piston rot! with two pistou~ attached, the piston rod is hollow ?-Part of the way only.

1098. Then there is a small tap rod works in the hollow piston rod?-Yes. 1099. And that actuates the valve at the top end of the steam cyliwlcr ?-Yes, the slide valve. 1100. Are there any other moving parts than those three ?-Ye,;. ilOI. In connection with the main piston are there any other moving parts than tappit rod and

slide valve attached to it in connection with the main piston ?-Certainly, in connection with the maiu piston there are other two moving parts.

1102. Which are they ?-The small reversing piston. 1103. That is not actuated with the main piston ?-That is the means of actuating the main piston. 1104. I mean anything in direct connection with the main piston ?-That does not take into account

this double piston or the two pistons connected and the small reversing piston. In connection with the main steam piston there are no other working parts than the tappit rods and the slide valves attached.

1105. These main pistons seem to be fitted with elastic rings of metal ?-Yes, cast-iron rings. l106. Have they any spaces behind them ?-No, there are none. l107. Then, coming to the piston valve, there seem to he three pistons on one rod ?-No, there are

two pistons on one rod, and the top piston is distinct. l108. How is that top piston actuated ?-I will explain. Steam from the port F under the sccoiHl

piston. 1109. Is that marked here as 34 ?-No; that black spot. Steam from port F is always in com­

munication with the chamber A, in which works the slide valve actuated by the tappit rod. Presuming that the main steam piston is taking the up stroke, when it rises to the shoulder (shown on the tappit rod), the tappit rod, together with the slide valve attached, will be lifteu, and any steam which may be in the reversing piston chamber will be free to exhaust itself through the slide valve and through the ports C into the open air. The two pistons, Nos. 15 and IG, being of different areas, and the space between them having fre(: communication with the steam in the boiler ; as long as the steam cock is open, t.he steam tends to lift those valves, owing to the larger area of 11iston No. 15. Then, as the steam in the reversing chamhcr has been exhausted, this extra pressure on piston No. 15 allows the piston in the rC\'ersing chamber to go np, aml then communication is made with the top of the main steam cylinder, and the down stroke is hc,gnu. At the same time the bottom piston, Ko. 16, having been lifted with its neighbor piston, No. 15, the ,;team on the bottom of the main steam piBton is free to exhaust it.sclf into the open air.

lllO. Through what aperture ?-Through the ports in casting No. 18-[ explain 1oitlt tlte appa­ratus]. I started with the up stroke ; but now we have maJe the complete down stroke, we shall make the complete up stroke. The main steam piston having arrived at near the end of the down stroke, 1he plate, Ko. 10, on top of said piston will catch on the head of tappit rod working in the hollow part of piston. This will pull down the slide valve No. 13, and allow the steam, which, as I said before, has free com­munication with chamber No. 18, to enter into the rcvcnling ehamhcr by port A. This steam aeting on reversing piston overcomes-- - ·

llll. May I ask this: The steam, I take, which finds its way into port pas,;es through the small hole F, which is always in communication with chamber A ?-Yes, and overcomes the upward tendency exerted by the steam on piston No. 15.

1112. Ry what means ?-The larger diameter of the reversing pistr•n. This forcn:' dowH piston~ 15 and 16, admitting steam through the port in casting 18 under the bottom of the main steam piston. At. the same time the steam on the top of the main steam piston is exhausted through the top port in casting 171 and thus the up stroke of the pump i~ effected. That completes the working of the pump.

Alfred Trott, c®tinued,

2nd ~'cb. 1883,

u. B. Camp bell, 3r<ll!'cb. 1883.

B. B, C&lllpbell, e<HIMved,

llrd Feb. 188a.

30

· 1113. Then t.he reversing piston and the two pistons 15 and 16 form three moving pieces ?-Well, 15 and 16 lleing rigidly joined together make only one working piece.

1114, What name do you give to those two pistons, 15 and 16 ?-I will see what W estinghouse calls them himself.

1115. Piston valves I suppose?-Yes, piston valves ; it is quite possible I may have confused the numbers.

1116. Your numbers are right according to this illustration. Then at the bottom of No.16 piston there is a small stud ; what does that do ?-That is to prevent the piston valves coming down too far; it acts as a stop.

1117. Is there any similar stop to the main steam and air pistons, or do they cushion against the steam ?-They cushion against the steam, as in the ordinary steam cylinder.

1118. Both top and bottom ?-Both top and bottom. 1119. Then do I understand you that there are only five moving pieces in that portion of the pump,

taking, of course, the two piston valves with their rod, and the two main pistons with their rod, as one piece ?-Certainly, five moving pieces.

1120. Then coming to the air cylinder, would you describe the action of the pumping in that, or rather the action of the air-how it is admitted and how it finds its exit ?-In the air valve chamber you have four ordinary valves to give the double action from the air cylinder; they are of the ordinary descrip­tion, and require no explanation.

1121. Can we see an illustration of that?-Yes, I can take those to pieces-[ the witness did so, and explained by Ms apparatus]. The chamber shown on the top of valve 30 is divided into two compartments, in each of which there is a valve 30 in one compartment, and in the other compartment a similar valve. From valve 29, and similar valve, ports lead to the top and bottom of the main cylinder. Then on the down stroke of the main air piston, air will be taken in from the similar valve to 29, entering on top of the main air piston, while the air on the bottom of m~•in air piston will force up or lift valve No. 30 and be forced into the main accumulator. On the main air piston returning to the top of its cylinder, the vacuum tending to be caused in the bottom, allows outside air to lift valve 29, thereby getting under the bottom of the main air piston, while the air on the top of the main air piston getting down port No. 27 will lift the similar valve to No. 30 and be compressed into the main reservoir, and that is effect of up and down stroke of the air piston.

1122. What is the metal in those valves SO and 29, and the corresponding valves ?-Gun metal of good quality.

1123. What checks the lift of 29, does it come against the bottom of valve 30 ?-Y cs it does, because when valve 29 is lifted, valve 30 is being firmly held on by the compressed air.

1124. Arc there any other moving parts in this air cylinder?-Noue; simply four valves. 1125. Three feather valves ?-They seem to be four wing valves. We use the ordinary Roscoe's

lubricator for lubricating the pump now. 1126. Heferring again to the chamber A of the steam cylinder, and also to the chamber of the piston

valve, the reversing valve. I see they are bushed-what is the metal you bush them with ?-Cast iron of fine quality.

1127. Why me they bushed ?-As they arc the only parts of the pump with the exception of the main cylindeTs in which auy wear and tear is-that such wear and tear may be allowed for by replacing them with new ones-by rebnshing when required.

1128. How many strokes a minute does this piston make in full swing-·the main piston ?-That will depend upon the pressure of air you have and also the amount of steam which you give the pump.

1129. I mean when the reservoir is empty and you want to get up a high pressure quickly ?-I have never ta,ken that Jefinitely, but I would think a!Jout from sixty to eighty strokes a minute.

1130. I suppose that the speed of this arrangement is about as quick as the direct acting pump, which is not an automatic one ?-I think so. I have perceived no difference in my experience.

1131. I think the Rame engine is applieu to Loth cases ?-The non-automatic brake you refer to. The same engine is used in both cases for pumping the air. I may say, however, that I have had no experience with a non-automatic brake.

1132. If yon refer to chamber A again there is a space into which the head of the tappit rod fits?­Yes.

1133. And then there seems to be a small chamber leading from that space into the main cylinder? -Yes.

1134. Does that serve auy other purpose than to allow the escape of compressed air ?-No, for no other purpose-simply to ventilate that part of the cap.

1135. It is in direct communication with chamber A, and, through the port F, with the boiler?­Certainly, but no greater pressure can arise in that space but the pressure of steam acting on the f diameter of the tappit rod at any time.

1136. But when the tappit rod is at its lowest position, it seems to have free communication through chamber A with the steam and with the boiler ?-Certainly it has.

1137. Indeed it seems to be always open to the boiler unless the head of the tappit rod fits quite closely ?-It does not fit quite closely.

1138. Then it is always open to the boiler prcsHure ?-Y cs, in the same way as chamber A is. It may be looked on as forming part of chamber A.

1139. It always communicates with the main cylinder, nothing appears to stop it?-Yes ; but it will be seen that, when the down stroke of the pump is to be effected, there will be full pressure of steam in that chamber, and in the other portion of the stroke there will be exhaust steam.

1140. Then how is the change effected with regard to that chamber ?-As that chamber is in frco communication (it can scarcely be called a chamber, it is only a guide for the end of the tappit rod) when the down stroke is being effected, and there is full steam on top of the piston, that steam is free to rise through the ventilating port at the same time while the piston is ou the up stroke. Only such pressure will be on top of the tappit rod as is due to compre;;sion of the exhaust steam on the piston going up.

ll41. It appears to me-I do not know that I am quite right-.,d!Jat t!:trough port F, I think you ~aid just uow, chamber A was always open to, boiler presfmrc ?-Ye~:

31

1142. Then we will assume that the piston is taking thiK down stroke. That being the case, the steam would seem to pass through the tappit rod chamber down this side passage on to the top o~ the main piston, at the same time that it enters by the main port?-Yes; but the amount of steam which w1ll pass the tappit rod would be very little. It is not a tight fit ; that would not do; it is a working fit.

1143. The steum, then, is passing from the boiler down this side passage on to the main piston, we will say ?-Only a trifling quantity.

1144. No, not a quantity, but at that moment the piston valve has closed the exhaust port ?-Yes. 1145. Now the piston valve may be reversed as the main piston has reached the bottom of its stroke

and opens the exhaust stroke ?-Yes. . 1146. At the same time steam continues to flow down this passage from the boiler from the exhaust

port as well ?-Yes, but the amount of steam that will flow there will depend on the fit of the tappit rod into this chamber. It may be nothing.

1147. So that there is always a certain amount of steam going up the exhaust port ?-I will not say so. It depends on the fit of the tappit rod.

1148. You do not know that this chamber has any particular function to perform ?-It has none that I am aware of.

1149. Will yon kindly explain the action of the triple valve from the model ?-[Producing the same.] -The triple valve consists of three portions; there is the bottom, the main body casting of the piston valve with its attached slide valve. On air being put in to the brake pipe It enters nmlerneath the piston.

1150. You had better give the numbers and parts in the drawings (plate F) ?-It enters underneath the piston from the main pipe, lifting the piston 9 to the top of its chamber. When in that position there is a space between the top of the cylinder and the piston. That space is regnlatcd by a cone on the piston. Air from underneath the piston will pass through ports D and .F, and thereby get into the small reservoirs, charging them to the same pressure as in the brake pipe--[ explainin.q with tlte apparatus]. It will be seen that as the slide valve attached to the piston covers the entrance to the cylinder mtd the exit to the atmosphere, air cannot pass through any of those apertures and must therefore go into the reservoir. To apply the brake a certain amount of pressure as may be desired for force of application is taken from the bottom of piston No. 9. The pressure in the small rc8ervoir acting on top of the piston forces it down, uncovering the port of the cylinder, and thereby the brakes are applied.

lliH. You said that u certain amount of air is taken, I understood, from the main reservoir ?-No, from the brake pipe and underneath the piston.

1152. How is that taken ?--It is taken by the driver on the engine, or the guanl, or a passenger, or anyone who applies the brake.

1153. You remember it is exhausted from under the piston ?-Yes, exhausted. To release the brakes the brake pipe is again charged to a pressure in excess of that remaining in the small reservoir, which, lifting the piston with attached slide v~tlve, makes communication through the port in the l!llide valve with the cylinder and the open air, thereby releasing the brakes.

1154. It exhausts underneath through that little passage?-Yes-[pointing to the apparatus]. 1155. As to the refinement in this small valve ?-The action is the same there, only this small valve

is put in, that by a very slight exhaust of air under the piston, leEs travel is given to the piston, and the brakes can be applied more gently. That is all the use of that valve. I know the valve is very capable of graduated application.

1156. What is that little nick at the bottom of this spare valve for-the little cross cut ?-I cannot see any cross cut.

115\:iA. [Pointing out the same] ?-That is to grind it in with a screw-driver. The screw-driver grinds the valve to a face in the process of manufacture.

1157. Do those valves require lubricating at all?-We are recommended to clean and lubricate them slightly with a little mineral oil once in three months. The valves have been working on the Brighton line and I did not examine them for five months, and when I did examine thorn I found them in thorough working order-as clean as could be.

1158. What means do you take of screening the air from grit and fibre and that sort of thing?-The air is screened in the donkey pump before it passes into the main reservoir-[ showing the apparatus]. They have a system of putting a brass plate on top of this, in which the screen is finer. That was put there, not for the sake of screening the air, as that was never found necessary, but as a handier means of getting at the air valves. That was the only object.

1159. When the brake then has to be applied, this piston (9) must move off the face F ?-Yes. I would like to explain that that cone i;; not a v:tlve ; it is simply a stop.

1160. Then supposing that any intervening matter, such as grit or fibre, or anything of that kind, got on that cone and prevented a complete closing of the orifice the brakes would go on, I presume ?-No; it would make no matter as long as the air could get into the small reservoir.

1161. In order to put the brakes on, the slide valve must move down from its po8ition, shown on the drawing, to something near the end of its stroke ?-The end of the stroke of the slide valve or the piston?

1162. The main slide valve and the piston are moved together ?-Yes; but the piston can move about l to 1

30 of an inch without moving the slide valve.

1163. Is that the large valve?-Y os-[ explaining with the apparatus ]-any friction in this is between the slide valve and the face; till this shoulder comes up against this, the valve will not be moved.

116-L And therefore it would admit, without putting the brakes on, of an impediment of that thickness between this face and the bush of the valve chamber?-Yes, an impediment of that much, nearly a quarter of an inch, which would be impossible to enter.

1165. In the event of this spring behind the main slide valve giving way and the main slide valve falling off its face ?-The brakes would then be applied, but, being made of brass, it is scarcely liable to break, or not so liable as if made of steel.

1166. Then, again, referring to the main 11iston in this, if the piston spring becomes very slack, would the brakes be applied, or would the triple valve fall out of use ?-In the event of that, by becoming loose, the air would simply leak past it.

1167. And would not move it up and down ?-Unless the wear was verv grent, which would not happen, I should say, in ten years. •

R, B. C&mpbell, <OIIti..-d,

3rd Feb. 1883.

ll, B. Campbcll, con[!ti,nued,

3rd Feb. 1883.

32

1168. And in that ease the brakes would go on, if the air leaked past this position ?-Yes, if the air leake<l past the piston the brake would go on-any large quantity.

1169. The moving parts in this apparatus then, l suppose, are three at least-the main valve ?-In that piece it can be looked upon as one, or it might be looked upon as three, in the same way that you may look upon every bolt as a separate piece.

1170. A bolt is stationary, but I refer to the moving parts, which have a motion separate from the other pieces of the apparatus-a distinct separate motion by themselves ?-In that there are three.

1171. What is the object of the pin through the top casting (No. 1) ?-Simply a guide to the &lido valve.

1172. Does it also fasten the bush into its place ?-No, the bush is forced in. 1173. And secured, I presume, by the pin ?-The pin by pttSsing through the brass liner secures

it, though it is not required for security. 1174. This dark space between castings 1 and 2, is it leather ?-A leather washer forming a seat

for the piston to prevent concussion when it is brought down rapidly by a strong application of the brake. 1175. Can we see that three-way cock-the driver's brake valve ?-[The witness produced the

a ppm·a t?tS. J 1176. Will you kindly explain the action of that ?-Shall I explain the putting together of it first,

and the working of it afterwards ? 1177. Very well ?-The handle 1 is carried into the body 2 of the cock by means of a coarse screw,

compressing thereby the spiral spring 4 which forms the load on the discharge valve 3. This valve is made with a flat wing, both above and below the air wing, fitting into a groove in the handle of the lever into the large valve 6. The rotary movements of the handle are thus communicated to the valves 3 and 6. There are three positions of the handle for working the brake ; first, for charging the train and releasing the brakes ; two, for feeding while the train is running, and third, for applying the brakes. In the first po:;ition of the handle, as the openings A A in the main valve 6 correspond to the openings E E, cut in this seat-the body of the cock, and thereby a free communication is formed between the main reservoi-r on the and the brake pipe. The air filling the brake pipe lifts the triple valves, and consequently the lJrakes arc off. In the second position, the openings A A and E E, do not correspond, and the air from the main reservoir mu,;t pass through the small valve 7, before it reaches the brake pipe throngh the hole " G," which, in this second position, opens into the seat hole E.

1178. One of them only?-Yes, the valve 7 is held on its seat (that is the small valve) by a spiral spring, 9, of a strength corresponding to ton pounds per square inch, so that when feeding in this second position the in the brake pipe is ten pounds less than in the main reservoir, which extra pressure i~ utilised releasing the brakes. A little over the second position all communication between the main reservoir and the brake pipe is cm off, and turning the handle towards the right lessens the pressure on the 4 of the top valve 3, and permits the air to escape from the brake pipe into the atmosphere through the opening M until an equilibrium of pressure between the spring 4 and the brake pipe pressure is obtained. This escape of air sets the brakes with a force corresponding to the reduction of pressure made in the brake pipe gauge connected to the branch Z. In the third position the spring 4 is fully expanded, and the valve 3 (plite free ; the air escapes rapidly and the brakes go full on. In the first position of the handle there is a leak through the hole X-that is the hole dotted on the side.

1179. Mny I ask you to refer to position 3 again-are the boles in valve A simply reversed and brought into position with E and D to their full extent ?-No, those ports arc not then in communication at all ; that is, the actuating han<lle does not move through 180 degrees.

1180. Then the air is completely shut off from the main reservoir of the brake pipe when in position 3 ?-Tn poRition 3 there is free egress to the air in the brake pipe to the atmosphere. At the same time the air in the main reservoir is locked in. In the first position of the handle there is a leak through hole X, to remind the driver, after he has closed the bral~cs, to bring the handle to the second position, where it must remain whilst the train is rmming. This brake valve is very simple in its operation, and admits of the most perfect graduation of the force with whieh the brakes are applied, irrespective of the number of vehicles in the traiu.

1181. Are the little circular channels in the main casting above the large valve A-[ explaining the same J? -These channels being filled with air tend to relieve the pressure of valve G on its face-that is my notion of them.

1182. In this cock then there arc seven moving pieces without the main castings ?-I only make four, unless you include the springs.

1183. Yes; the springs ana moving pieces-that would mo.ke the seven ?-I only see two moving

not move. at 11!1.

There is the compression spring above the smo.ll spring-inside of this one ?-That one does It is fixed ; it has a function too. There is no up and clown motion of the moving of the valve

1185. But a spinuing motion, turning round so ?-Yes ; hut that, as a moving part, has already been taken acconnt of. It certainly has a function, so has the outside casting.

I18G. That ho.s a function distinct from the outside casting; that is what I mean ?-Yes. 1187. 'There are three springs, and three valves, and the handle ?-Yes. 1188. Now coming to the main reservoir. I prmmme that is not illustrated, except in the general

view of the engine ?-No. 1189. The pipe from the cock, however, goes into the main reservoir ?-Yes, this one. 1190. And also the feed pipe from the engine ?-From the pump. 1191. h there any valve on either of those pipes ?-No. 1192. They arc simple pipes into the mo.in reservoir ?-Yes. 1 UJ3. There is no vu! vc whuteYer connected with the main reservoir ?-No. 119L Then that part of the apparatus is simply a wrought-iron cylinder?-Yes ; simply a wrought­

iron cylinder. lHlfi. Then from the main reservoir the main brake pipe leads after passing through this cock?­

Yes, we shall consider that the m:tin brake pipe after it leaves this cock. 1196. Then what apparatus, such as cocks or valves, are on this maiu brake pipe ?-The cock on

either end of each vehicle.

33

1197. And what functions do they perform ?-In shunting a carriage, or in taking a carriage out of a train, you shut the cocks on that carriage and the cocks on the other carriages in which it is between, uncouple the couplings and pull away the carriage without the brake being ~pplied at all, or if you have a non-brake engine on the train, and have air stored in the train by closing the'·cock between the engine and train you reserve that air ready for use in any emergency, and applicable by guard or any passenger in the train, if arrangement is made to that effect.

1198. Then between the main bmke pipe and the small reservoir under each vehicle, is there a cock ?-There is a half-inch cock.

1199. What function does that perform ?-If any part of the Lrake mechanism goes wrong on any carriage, then that carriage, as long as the brake pipe is intact, can be cut off, and the failure of one carriage therefore does not affect any other vehicle in the train hut itself.

1200. Then between the cock and the triple valve is a simple pipe ?-A ~timple pipe. 1201. Now the small reservoirs which are placed under each vehicle, is there any cock or valve

between them and the triple valve at all ?-There is none. 1202. Neither for inlet nor outlet it is the same-- ?-Yes, the triple valve is fixed to the small

reservoir. 1203. Then coming between the triple valve and the brake cylinder there is, I think, a release

valve ?-Yes. 1204. What function does that perform ?-If on a train, standing in a yard with air stored in it, the

brake from any cause should be applied either by chanee or intentionally they can be released from the sides by these release valves.

1205. Is that its only function ?-The function of the release valve is to release the brake when· ever applied, and when no brake engine is there to do it.

1206. Has it any other function ?-That is generally its function. 1207. Is that the only function it performs ?-That is the only function it performs. 1208. You have not got one of them here ?-No. It is a simple valve. 1209. It has a lever marked Q (on plate T), with two holes in the lever. Does this hang vertical?

-As may be arranged. 1 210. What are the two holes for here ?-To attach a connection leading to either side of the

carriage, so that the lever may be actuated from either side. 1211. The mode of operation is solely to pull this lever with hinges upon either CorD ?-Yes. 1212. It has no functions to perform in the operation of the brake in any way ?-None whatever. 1213. Then coming to the brake cylinder itself ; they seem to be fitted with two pistons which I

presume move in opposite directions ?-Yes, when air is admitted between them. 1214. And those springs bring the pistons to their normal position after the air is exhausted ?­

The springs in the cylinders. 1215, What forms the air-tight joint-leather ?-A cup leather. 1216. Then there only remains the coupling to consider ; the coupling between the carriages ; the

automatic coupling ?-That book does not show the present arrangement; this one does-[ltanding in the same].

1217. ·what are the moving parts in this?-There are none. 1218. There is no valve in it at all?-No. 1219. There is a valve in the direct-acting arrangement? -I have had no experience with the direct·

acting bruke. 1220. The joint i:; merely made by these-are they leather or vulcanite ?-They are rubber. 1221. Then in uncoupling by tension, such as when a train is parted from the engine, the lips which

grip together have to drop from under each other, I presume ?-Yes. 1222. And iu doing that the couplings have to cant slightly7-Not necessarily; the rubbers will

be then further closed, and the lips will slip npart. 1223. I will now refer to the drawing. In looking at the drawing, that portion of the lip has to

pass under here, and therefore there is a strain at that point. A similar thing takes place here, and the line of strain is, of course, between those two ; and the probable action will be to eompress the leather here and open them there?-Y cs; bnt they will be closed here again by that coming off, and, as the compression would be in a straight line across the centre, they would come apart equally.

1224. Have we now gone through the whole lot ?-I think so. Tlw wit1wss withdrew.

Adjoumed to .LJfonday next at half-past Nine o'clock.

MONDAY, 5TH FEBRUARY 1883.

Present:

W. THOW, Esq., in the Chair; H. Horniblow, Esq., W. E. Batchelor, Esq.

W alter Wi ttick examined. By tlw Board.-What are you?-An engine-driver. Where are you driving?-On the "\Villiamstown passenger train. How long have you been driving there ?-Say eighteen months.

trains.

1225. 1226. 1227. 1228. Where were you driving before ?-Sandhurst and Woodcnd goods and North-Eastern goods

. 1229. Not driving passenger trains on tho :Main line ?-No, not regularly Llriving; specmls.

1230. Have you driven the Woods brake trains on the Williamstown line for the months '?-Yes.

BRAKES BOARD, E

I drove some

last eighteen

R, B. Campbell, continued,

llrd l'eb. 1883.

WalteT Wlttlck, 6th Feb.l883.

WAiter W!U!ck, CM!llnutd,

5th Feb. 1883,

34

1231. Have they stuck with you at any time ?-They failed three times with me duri:ug the eighteen months.

1232. Will you descri)e the failures ?-In coming up to the station I did not pass the station completely, but within a van length of the carriage and a van; on the second occasion and on the third occasion was something similar.

1233. What was the cause of your passing the station ?-The brakes not properly acting. 1234. Did you find out the reason why they did not act ?-No, we had no time to bother about that. 1235. So far as you know, the brake pipes were not burst or the hose uncoupled ?-No, they

would not be burst. 1236. Diu you haul up all right at the stations after ?-I allowed more time. 1237. The run past those three stations might have been caused by not applying the brake

sufficiently early ?-No, the brake was applied early enough, but it partially failed. I called it a failure, but properly speaking it cannot be called a proper failure.

1238. Because there was no apparent cause for the failure?-Yes. Of course the next day they fixed it, the train was rectified.

1239. Did you find it act properly the whole of those days ?-Yes, it uid not fail exactly at once, it takes time, and if it could have Leen looked to then it would have been all right.

1240. Did you drive pasilcnger trains on the William~town line before you had the brake trains?­No, I have driven down without a brake.

1241. From the experience you have gained both with brakes and without the brakes, do you consider there is much additional fuel consumed ?-My opinion is that with the continuous brake there is less fuel used than without it.

1242. Why ?-Simply because in between the stations on the vVilliamstown line WC would have to go very bard and work our engine heavy to keep time, whereas with the continuous brake you can regulate your time all throngh.

1243. That is to say, between the stations, yon do not require to get up to such a high maximum of speed ?-No.

1244. In the matter of water, do you consider that the water is much higher in consumption ?­vVell, of course there must be a quantity of water used with the hydraulic brake, but the given quantity I could not give an idea.

1245. It does not strike you as being very much greatcr?-Nothing extraordinary. I have often ,had.to take water of course, when there arc heavy trains.

1246. Have you ever been hauled up on the road between stations?-Yes. 1247. You did not mention that as a failure ?-Yes, the hose pipe has come off and pulled me up. 1248. How often ?-On four different occasions ; once at vVilliamstown, arriving with the

one o'clock from Williamstown up, and at North Williamstown about 200 yards from the station with the 6.45 a.m. np, and leaving the junction with the 8.5 up from Williamstown.

1249. Which junction is that ?-The Newport junction; and then again, coming across the Salt­water bridge in between FootRcray and North Melbourne, I noticed in fr,mt of my engine a leak of water. I told my mate directly I went round, if there was a slip he would apply the continuous brake ; just as I got round he did so, and the pipe fell. He put the brake on, and then of course I could lift the pipe up without any water on and fix it in its place, at the same time I would never do it again.

1250. Had the coupling slipped then?-Yes. 1251. The hose was not burst ?-No. 1252. vVas the hose burst or driven off the nozzle in any of the three preceding cases ?-In one at

Williamstown it was pulled off the coupling where the clip goes round. I fixed it and came on to J\:Ielboume ; and at Newport it was the same.

1253. That would make seven failures altogether?-Yes. 1254. Have vou anv recollection of any ot.hers ?-No. 1255. You ;ere nc~er hauled up on the road without the cause being quite apparent ?-No. 1256. Through a bmst coupling, or an unattached hose, or something of that kind ?-No, not to

my knowledge. 1257. So far as you arc awn.re the small valves which are underneath the carriages have never

failed to act ?-They have leaked, hut they have never failed to act when I wanted them. 1258. Have they leaked in a manner to put the brake on and haul you up on the road ?-No, never. 1259. By jJfr. Campbell (throt~gh tlte CAairman).-What is the cause of the couplings coming off

the ends of the nozzles ?-Well, there is a weak draw bar that would pull it off; that i:-1 all I can ascertain. 1260. Simply from extension of the draw bar ?-Yes. 1261. Are you aware of any of the accumulat.ors of the W oOLls brake having burst through

pressure ? -No. 1262. Are the water-cranes on the Sandhurst line affected by ice ?-Yes, I have seen them frozen,

that is at W oodend. 126:3. In the second run made by yon with the light engine at the trials, you showed the members

of the Board your tanks full of water, and you were unable to get the pressure up in the brake pipe after runnino- about a mile ?-Yes.

0

1264. After watering at the vVerribee you had again to take water-where did the water go between the vVcrribee and the mile run ?-The first time I went back without water and when I set back again I took water.

1265. At the beginning of this run you showed the t~nks full of water ?-No, that is a mistake. 1266. By the Board.-Will your pumps work when the water is within a foot of the top of the

tanks ? -Yes. 1267. Will the pumps work when the water is nearly at the bottom of the tanks ?-Yes. 12G8. By ll'lr. Campbell (tlt1·ouglt t!te Chaimwn).-What was the cause of the brake failing on that

occasion ?-It did not fail. 1269. By the Board.-Why did you return after making the-- ?-Because I did not get the

accumulator pressure, and I did not think I should go into the brake trial with 80 lbs. pressure. 1270. Why could you not get the pressure ?-I could not explain that.

35

1271. Were you too late in putting your pump to .work ?-No, the pump was at work at the time. Waiter Wlttlck, 1272. Had you ever any experience of a similar failure before ?-No; I do not recollect that I had. :~t~~

I have seen them take the pumps fuller than at other times, but I have always had the pressure, so I do not know what was the reason.

1273. You discovered no definite cause for the pump not working in its usual form on that day?­No. If I had had time to go round the train I could have found whether there was a leakage or not.

1274. Di<l the failing of the tanks make any alteration to the pump ?-No, I cannot see how it would, because the pump would work as long as it did not suck air.

127 5. Did you work No. 40 engine before ?-Yes I did, but it was some time before. 1276. Then you can positively say that the pumps will work when nearly empty ?-Yes.

The witness withdrew.

Ebenezer Brown examined. 1277. By the Board.-What are you ?-Engine-man. 1278. Where are you working ?-Between :Melbourne and Esse-udon-passenger train. 1279. Have you worked any passenger trains on the main line ?-Yes. 1280. Where to ?-Between :Melbourne and Sandhurst. 1281. How long since ?-About three weeks since, 1282. Were you a regular driver, on that line, of passenger trains ?-I have been ten years a driver,

but not of passenger trains. 1283. Have you had much experience with passenger trains on the main line ?-Considerable,

possibly twelve to eighteen months. 1284. How long since ?-I have been driving passenger trains regularly, both on the Essendon

and main lines for seven months. 1285. I want you to confine yourself to the :Main line just now ?-But I have not heen a long time

on the :Main line, that is driving regularly passenger trains. 1286. But by fits and starts ?-Yes. 1287. Still you have had several months' experience 11ltogether with the :Main line passenger trains?

-Yes, the last time about two months regularly. 1288. Did you work the Woods brake train when driving on the :Main line ?-Yes. 1289. Taking the main line distinct from the Essendon, have you any recollection of having been

hauled up upon the road between stations through failures of the brake ?-No, I have not been stopped between stations.

1290. Have you any recollection of the brake giving trouble without absolutely stopping you?­Not of any moment. I have had leakages in the train.

1291. Not sufficient to cause you delays ?-Ex:tctly. I have never heeu delayed on the road with it. 1292. Have you any recollection of any failmes on the :Main line with the brake, such as couplings

coming undone ?-I once had one of the hose pipes leaking badly. 1293. Had it burst?-Y os. 1294. Where ?-About Woodend. 1295. Did it stop your train ?-No. 1296. What remedy did you make ?-It was wasting a considerable amount of water, but I kept

the pump working, and could keep the pressure up to about within 30 lbs. of the usual pressure, until I arrived at Kyncton. The carriage inspector at Kyneton, put a new pipe on.

1297. Is that the only occasion ?-Another one a few days after, about two months ago, the first carriage from the engine, I found the valve leaking between :Malmsbury and Kynetou, and using a good deal of water, but I kept the pressure up to between 90lbs. and lOOlbs.; and when I arrived at Kyneton, I got the carriage shunted at the back ofthe other brake carriages, and got it cut off from the brakes.

1298. Do you recollect any other case ?-No. 1299. Neither of those cases, I presume, caused any delay to your train on the road ?-No more

than shunting the carriage at Kyneton, which occupied about five minutes. 1800. Coming back to the E:lsendon experience you have had, have you ever found any failures of

the brake on that run ?-No. 1801. Have you ever passed stations in consequence of the brake failing to act ?-No more than a

couple of carriages past. 1302. Have you got the screw brake on the engines you have worked ?-Yes. 1303. Which engines have they been on-can you give the numbers ?-Nos. 34, 22, aml 18 on the

Essendon line. 1304. Are fitted with screw brakes ?-Yes. 1305. What is your practice-to put the Woods brake on first, or the screw brake on first running

into stations ?-I put the Woods brake on first. 1306. And you hold the screw brake as a reserve ?-Yes, I apply the continuous brake at a distance

that I consider it will stop the train at the platform, and if it does not, if it is not pulling up sufficiently, I apply the other brake.

1307. Have you found you frequently stop short of the platform ?-Not exactly stop short. If I find the train stopping too soon I take the continuous brake off.

1308-9. Does that happen often ?-Yes, it does frequently. 1310. Could not that be remedied by applying the screw brake first?-Yes, it might. 1311. You never tried that ?-No, I never did. 1312. How often do you consider those stoppings short may happen in a week ?-On the average

from two to three times a day, possibly more. 1313. Then you simply alter the action of the brake, and put on a little steam ?-Oh, no; when I

find the train pulling up too short of the platform I take the brake off and let it run a few yards, and put it on again.

1314. Yon say you do not remember any failures with the brake on the Essendon line ?-Not on the Essendon line. I was once stopped running a special train to Footscray. "

1315, What was tbl\t through ?-Through the hose pipe slipping off the engine.

Ebenezer Brown, &lh Feb, 1881.

36

Ebenezer Brown, 1316. Did it slip off the nozzle or slip out of the coupling ?-Slipped off the coupling, where the 5J:~aa. clamp holds it on to the end of the pipe.

1317. The clip moved on and let it go?-The clip slipped right off. 1318. You do not understand what I said; I presume the nozzle was in the coupling held up by the

clamp ?-I mean the clip at the other end. 1319 You mean to say the clip gave way ?-No, it was still on, but it had slipped off from the end

of the iron pipe. 1320. You mean the indiarubber had slipped off the iron nozzle ?-Yes. 1321. Did the pipes ever burst with you, either indiarubber or wrought iron, on the Essendon line?

-No, I have not had any burst on that line. 1322. Now, from your experience with brake trains and trains which have had no brakes, which do

you prefer to have behind you ?-I prefer the tmin with the brake. 1323, 'Vhy ?-I have not so much power to stop the train at any moment without it. 1324. How about your consumption of fuel with brake trains ; is it any heavier ?-I think not. 1325. Not sufficient t<J call your attention to that ?-Exactly. 1326. How about the water ?-,Ve use more water in the brake trains. 1327. Any large amount ?-No, I think not very large. 1328. By M.r. Campbell ( tlwongh the Cl•airman) .-A:rc you aware of any of the accumulators ofW oods

brake having burst through excessive pressure ?-I am not. 1329. Are the water cranes on the Sandhurst line affected by ice in winter time ?-Yes, the one at

W oodend is, I believe. 1330. By the Board.-Does that disable you from taking water at that place ?-Only for a short

distance while they perhaps put a little lighted waste near the valve. 1331. Have you worked the ·woods brake in winter ?-Yes. 1332. Have you ever found that it froze ?-No. 1333. By Jfr. Woods (tltrough the Clwirman).-Do yon ever find any difficulty in starting from the

stations after yon stop ?-I have once or twice, when I ho,ve come on to a strange train. 1334. By the Board.-What was the cause of that ?--I once came with the engine against the train

in the morning, and the accumulator had not a great deal of pressure in it, and I tried to start the train, and found I could not start it ; I presume that the pressure in the train being greater than what the accumu­lator would take the brakes off. It just delayed me about half a minute while I pnt the injector on and injected water into the accumulator.

1335. By ~lfr. Woods (througlt the Cltai1·man).-Is that rare ?-It only occurred about twice. 1336. Have you found any difficulty in the brakes releasing ?-No. 1337. You can~do that instantaneously?-Y cs. 1338. Are you not under instructions from the locomotive branch to apply the brake, and keep it

applied until the passengers are all in the train, and only release it when you get the signal ?-I am not aware.

1339. Is that the practice ?-It is my practice. 1340. By the Board.-Until you get the signal from the guard you do not take your continuous

brake off?-Yes. 1341. Is that to hold the train steady?-Yes, that is my object in doing it. 1342. And then the release is instantaneous so soon as you move your handle ?-I have always

found it so. T!te witness withdrew.

W alter Wittick further examined.

Walter Wlttlelt, 1343. B11 the Board.-You said in reply to Mr. Camp bell that the water cranes sometimes freeze on fith Feb. 181!3. the Sandhurst line ?-Yes, at W oodcnd.

R. Jaekaon, ~ IIth Feb. 1883.

1344. Have you ever taken the brake trains in the winter time?-Yes. 1345. On that line?-Yes, firing on them but not driving. 1346. You have been engaged with brake trains as fireman in the winter time on that Main line ?-

I would not positively say that. 1847. Have you ever known the water of the Woods brake to freeze on the Main line?-No. 1348. Have you ever heard of its doing so ?-Never. 1349. By Jrfr. Campbell (througlt the Chairman).-Had you ever occasion to pick a carriage up at

W oodend that had been lying there all night in winter ?-No, I do not recollect. 1350. By the Board.-ls it your practice when working passenger brake trains to keep the brake

on until the guard gives yon the ;;ignal to start ?-Always. 13.51. 'Why ?-Because to keep the train steady at the station-not to allow any oscillation. 1352. Do vou find any hcsitnt.ion on the part of the trnin to lltart immediately you rcleat5e ?-No. 1353. By JJfr. Woods (tltrouglt the Chairman).-Any difficulty in releasing ?-No. 1354. Always release when you waut to ?-Yes. 1355. By the Board.-You consider the brake instantaneous in that respect ?-I do,

The witness withdrew.

Robinson Jackson examined.

1856. By the Board.-What are you ?-Engineer. 13.'57. You have a position at Williamstown ?-Foreman of the railway workshops. 1358. You have had rather a long experience with the Woods brake ?-Yes, I have had something

to do with it. 1359. How long is it since your experience first ]Jcgan ?-I have not got the date; I think it

is about five years. 1360. Has it been running constantly since then?-Yes, all the time. 1361. Have you found that it required large repairs during that period ?-We have had nothing to

do with it at Williamstown, or next to nothing. When a carriage came in the shop, we would face the valves up if they required it.

37

1362. ·which valves do you me:tn-the small fe:tthcr valves ?-There are only three valn;~-t.hr two automatic valves, aml the valve for feetliug the accumulator.

1363. Do you keep men specially for attemliug to the ·woods brake appara.tus ?-Only one man. 1364. Does he go round t.be trains mHl examhw them ?-No, he ha:> ]lOCI! employed pnttiHg them on

to the carriages-fitting up the new carriages. 1365. Does he examine the carriages when they come in for repnirB ?-Ye~ ; hut wu have Hot h:d

many in for repairs to brakes. 1366. What is his name ?-Atl,ly. 1367. Can you us any idea (l,lo not want the exact number) of the number of carriage~ to

which the ·woods brake applied ?-No, not from memory. I have a return, which I sent. to the ofiiee, with the num her of every carriage.

1368. Would you venture to Hay there ttre some dozens?-Y os, I woul(l say that. 1369. Tlmt is a copy of the return-[handing a paper to the ~~;itness].-Looking at that. could yon

give an idea of how mttny rhere may be fitte<l with t.lw bmke, not with the pipes ~imply, lmt with the hmk(: accumulators and so on?-Yes, there arc 118 carriages.

1370. Are you prepared to say that those 118 do not retp1ire any attention beyond whnt Addy is able to give them ?-Atldy does very little at them, there is :t man on the station hero.

1371. As far as your experience at \Villimn;;town ], concerned?-Yes, Addy i~ employe•[ very Jitt],J on the old brakes, he is employed ou the new ones.

1372. Who is the maintenance fitter on the fltation here ?-:McLean. 1373. Have the engiues given much trouble in respect to the brake machinery ou them ?--Xot at all,

we have very little to do at them. 1374. Have yon ever known the reservoir::' nmler the eHgines or carriages bnrstiug ?-One reservoir

was broken, it struck something on the road an(l it broke it. That is all tlmt I know of. 1375. Instead of bursting it wns rnptnred through a blow?-Ye.,;. 13'ili. \Vas that on !Lll engine or a earri::tge ?-On an engine. 1317. \V c have it in evidence from engine-men t.lutt the brake frequently fails or cnuses trouble thr .• uglt

the slipping of the imliarubbcr hose frum the nozzles; the dips do uot appear to nrc you aware of that ?-:No. I never heard of such a thing. I think if the eli}l is taken off one it wouhl break the hnf'e before it would come off.

1378. What do you mean by that ?-I mean you cannot pull it off. The drivers say they tumble off, slip off; well, I say I believe if the clip is taken off that you cannot pull it off-it would break the hose first, it is so fast on.

1379. How do you mean if it is taken off?-If you tnke the clip off that holds it on there is nothing to hold it on but the hose itself.

1380. The complaint is that the hose slips from under the clip or both hose and clip slip oJI the cast. iron nozzle ?-I do not believe it. Such a thing may have happened once or twice, but not often; and if it has happened at all it has never been screwed on properly; it is the fault of the man who put it on.

1381. We have it in evidence that trains are hauled up on the road through the failure:< of the indiarubber hose-have you ever heard of that I eannot say I have had a report of anything of the kind, hut I would not dispute that.

1382. How would you account for that ?-We have had to use very bad hose that have been lying in Melbourne for many years ; we could not get any other ; there was no good hose in the market ..

1383. You think it is the bursting of the hose ?-Yes. 1384. Which of the fitters is it who replaces any damaged hose ?-McLean. 1385. Have you ever heard of the water in the \Voods brake freezing on the Main line at any

time?-No. 1386. Have you ever heard of it freezing in the water columns at Woodend ?-No. 1387. Now, coming to the trial trains-you had the Woods train down at Williamstown ?-Yes. 1388. \V us there any special alteration made upon that train for the purposes of trial, that you aro

aware of ?-Y os.

before.

1389. 'What were they ?-Fresh cams were put on. 1390. Why was it done ?-To give the brake a little more power. 1391. Were those cams unusual in form they belonged to the r.rain-they had been on it

1392. Are they the same shape as those usuaJly applied ?-No, they were a little more powerfuL 1393. Is there any objection to use the same kind of cams in ordinary working ?-None w hatenJr. 1394. Why do you prefer to have another shape of Cttm in onlinttry working ?-It was to try an

experiment to see how the trains worked with them. 1395. \Vas there any other alteration that you are aware of except tlmt.'!-I do not remember nnv. 1396. Was there any alteration made in the brake tmiu previous to the lui:it two trial davs bcfo~e it

went up to the \Verribee for the !:1st time?-Y cs, the cocks that puts the brake on from the iuard's van, the hole was enlarged a little.

1397. Is that the cock that the guard uses to put the brake on ?-Yes. 1398. There are two, which one do you refer to ?-The one that he use;.; to put the brake on; the

cocks were bored a little, it was thought they were a little small, but. I do not think thnt made any difference. The holes were originally one-eighth of an inch larger than the pipe.

1399. Was that the only alteration?-Yes. 1400. It has been asserted that the tmin was eonsideralJly altered, and I should like you to tdl us

with minuteness what alteration took place ?-That is all the alteration I am aware of. 1401. Can you tell us whether any fit.ter or attendo.nt upon the \Voods brake travels in those trnins

running on particularly the Main lines or the Suburban lines ?-There has been a fitter at the South Hub­urban line travelling with the train.

1402. What is his name ?-MeTaggart. 1403. On the Williumstown and Essendon lines is there any fitter whose special duty it is to travel

and attend to the Woods brake ?-No, never has been. • 1404. Nor was there on the Main line ?-No.

R. Jackson, continued,

.?tll Feb. 1883.

R.Jaekson, . crmtint!M J

5th Feb. 1883,

J'r&nk Bell, IIth Feb,l8il3,

38

U,05. Why is a man necessary out on the South Suburban line ?-He is not necessary. I would not have sent him.

1406, Why is he kept there ?-I cannot say. 1407. Who will he able to give the information ?-Mr. l\Iirls sent him there. I told him at the

time I would not send a man with the trains, that it was just waste of time for a man to run with each train. 1408. By Jl[r. Campbell (tltrouglt t!te Chairman).-Is Addy the only man who has anything to do

with the Woods brake at Williamstown shops ?-Yes. One may have been sent to help him fit any carriages up occasionally, but he is the only man permanently at the job.

1409. Has the fitter, McLcan, any assistant in the Spencer street yard ?-Not that I am aware of. 1410. Do you know the name of the driver when the reservoir was ruptured ?-No. 1411. Nor the number of the engine ?-No, I (lo not remember that either. 1412. How many men were sent from Williamstown workshops to attend the brake trains on the

trials conducted by the Board ?-I think there were about four sent for the use of the Board. 1413. Can you name them?-Yes, there were Stinton and Addy, fitters; and Jenkins was there

ono day. 1414. What is he ?-A turner, and there was another. I do not remember his name-he is a new

hand. 1415. Did you give those men any special instructions as to what they were to do at the trials?­

No, only they were to go, and if wanted Mr. 1\Iirls would give them instructions; they were to work for either train, the '\V estinghouse or the Woods, if they were required.

1416. I suppose your object in sending them was as a matter of precaution ?-To lend any assistance that might be required, it was for the Board ; if the Board required men they were there.

1417. We could not have well done without them ?-That was why I sent them. 1418. By Mr. Campbell (tln·ouglt the Chairman ).-Have the cams now on the train been used on the

Brighton line ?-No. 1419. What is the size of pipe on the brake train ?-One-and-a-quarter inch diameter. 1420. By tlw Board.-Have you anything you would like to tell us about ?-I do not know there

is anything I could say except that the brake works very well-I am satisfied with it. 1421. Have you had any experience with the Westinghouse brake ?-No, I could not say anything

against it, of course it is a world-famous brake.

The witness withdrew.

Frank Bell examined.

1422. By tlte Board.-What are you ?-A special guard on the Victorian Railways. 1423. You have had experience both with the Main and the Suburban line ?-Yes, every line in the

country. 1424. As well as tho South Suburban ?-Yes. 1425. I suppose you have had considerable experience with the trains fitted with the Woods brake ?

-Yes, for the last five years. 1426; Have you known that brake to fail very much when in work ?-I can hardly remember it

ever failing. 1427. Will you p::trLicularise any failure ?-I do not remember any. I may possibly have had one

or two, but I do uot, think so. I was trying to remember them to-day. 1c~28. Have you over known the train to be hauled up between :;tations ?-No, never. 1429. Have you ever known it to refuse to start from stations when wanted ?-No. 1430. Have you known of cases in which tho engine-man overshot stations ?-I have gone over

perhaps a carriage length. 1431. And cases where he fell short of platfonns ?-No, he always got there ; if anything, he would

be a little over. 1432. How long is it, do you think, since you first ran with the Woods brake trains ?-Five years,

I think, since the first trial. 1433. Do yon think they have facilitated the traffic very much ?-I am sure they have. 1434. In what respect ?-In the first place in gaining time on every road, and in the next place in

the comfort that a man has in working the trains, when he can feel secure if anything should happen he would have an opportunity of stopping before there could be any accident.

1435. 1:! it part of the guard's c1uty to work this brake ut all in practice ?-No ; except in case of emergency.

1436. nut in oruinury stopping ?-Never touch it, 1437. Have you run the South Suburban train~> with this brake very much ?-No; principally on the

Williamstown line. 1438. You have not enough experience to speak of it there?-No. I have ridden on it to see how

it worked, to see the difference of trains, because on that line they have the double brakes, and on my line the single brakes.

1439. You wore with the trial trains ?-Yes. 1440. Do you remember a case in which yom action was rather called in question, for opening the

valve out on the trial trains, by the representative of the W estinghouse company?-Y cs. 1441. Did you open the valve at nll ?-No, I never touched it. 1442. You know of course which valve I me!tn ?-Yes. 1443. You can positively state yon never did ?-I can make oath of it. 1444. Did any one else touch it ?-No, I kept others awuy from it, and kept away myself. After

the first day I pulled the knob hack; the next day they had put a couple of screws in it, and cut away the slit, so that the handle won1d go farther lJack, and I could see I could not get my fingers behind it; and I aid, "Be kind enough to pull it out the eighteenth part of an inch," and he said, "Do it yourself,'' and I

said I would not toueh it. I asked him to pull it out sufficient for me to get the fingers behind it for the year trial ; that was the fitter I spuke to. ·

1445. On this particular oeea~ion, when you were blamed for manipnhtting the handle, who was in the van ?-}fr. Gibbs, and two gentlemen connected with the press, and I think Mr. Patterson, of the lamp factory ; I think he was there. I was not standing near the brake at all, I was standing at the window, watching the green flag.

1446. "Which window were yen standing at ?-The one en the right hand side, towards the flag. 1447. If any signal had been given on the other side-the left hand ~ide-you could not have seen

it ?-No, it would have been impos,:ible. 1448. I suppose when the engine brake was put on water would run from the guard's van ?-As a

rule a little escapes from the cylindero. 1449. And if you had been putting on your brake there would have been two distinct streams of

water ?-I think so ; I have never taken any particular notice of that, always being in the van. 1450. By Jfr. Campbell (through the Chainnan).-In case of emergency can the guard apply the

continuous brakes on all trains running from ~pencer street ?-Not on all trains, beeause the brakes are not fitted on all the trains.

1451. You spoke of asking the fitter to move the handle-the fitter was not in the van at this par­ticular trial ?-No, not the particular one that you speak of; he was in afterward:-:.

1452. By the Board.-I remcmuer yon were asking the fitter to move this, asking if it could be removed without interfering with the brake ?-Yes, that was it. I feel much annoyed that I have been suspected of anything of that sort; it would have been perpetrating a piece of roguery, and there was nothing to be gained by the matter in any case.

1453. By Jib. Woods (through tlte Chairman).-If Mr. Imray, or any one else, were to state that you stood with yonr hands behind yonr hack close to the brake lever and with your han<ls on the brake lever behind your back, would that he true ?--No.

1454. That is to say, during that particular trial, when the man giving the signal was moved, at the instance of the Chairman of the Board, from the right hand side of the engine to the left, would that be true ?-It would not. As a rule, I have a habit of standing with my hands behind my hack, but I was not near it. I have given my word that I could not have done it then.

1455. That statement is distinctly untrue ?-It is distinctly untrue. 1456. By the Board.-Were you standing on the floor of the van ?-Yes, looking out of the window. 1457. By 1J1r. Camphell (tltrough the Chairman).-Do you remember having stood with your hand

against the handle at any of the other trials ?-No. l4li8. Might you have unthinkingly stood with your hand touching the handle ?-No, I W!ts very

particular all through the trials to avoid that. I recollect perfectly I did not. When we have been starting I have just put my hand against the handle to sec that there was no humbug about it, but never, under any circumstances, have I touched the handle.

The witness withd1·ew.

Samuel 'f. 1\faxwell examined.

1459. By the Board.-What are you ?-Guard. 1460. Where have you been running as guard ?-On both lines-Main and Williamstown. 1461. Have you worked the Woods brake on those lines ?-Yes. 1462. Can you remember any case in which you were hauled up by the Woods brake, when you did

not want to be hauled up ?-Yes. 1463. When ?-Some two or three years ago. 1464. Where did it happen ?-From Williamstown. 1465. What was the cause ?-Through the blocks sticking to the wheels; we could not them

off. The wheels got stuck on one ofthe Yankee carriages. 1466. What diu you do in that case ?-TurneJ the lever off, but it would not come off then. 1467. What else ?-I fetched the driver and he could not get it off. I told him what to do, that if

he knocked the pin off the wash rod, it would come off itself; and I was told to mind my own business. 1468. What was ultimately done ?-It was pushed into Melbourne with a goods engine. 1469. Any other occasions ?-I have found it fail at times, but I cannot say whether it was the

fault of the driver or the brake. The driTCr got off the engine aud said, " Turn the brakes off, they are no good." That was on the Main line.

1470. What station ?-Keilor road. 1471. Who was the driver ?-A. Trott was the one on the Williamstown line. 14 72. Can you give the cause of the brakes failing on those occasions ?-No ; unless they hall not

sufficient pressure on. 14 73. W onld an insufficiency of pressure put the brake on ?-I believe so. 1474. Were there any pipes ruptured ?-No, there were no pipes ruptured. 1475. Then you say you turned the handles on those occasions?-Yes, we stopped the ca,rriages. 1476. Did they remove the brake ?-Yes. 1477. And allowed you to go on ?-Yes. 1478. Any other occasion ?-No. 14 79. Have you been with the ·woods brake train on the main line during winter months?-Yes. 1480. Did you ever know it to fail through freezing at all about Woodcnd ?-No. 1481. Did you ever know the water cocks to be frozen in that neighborhood ?-No, not at Woodend. 1482. Anywhcre?-They might have frozen at Kyneton slightly. 1483. Were they able to get water or not ?-Yes, they were.

. . 1484. T~eu, !rom ym:r experience, is it likely tha.t th~ Woods brake would fail by the water freezing m rt, when runnmg m the wmter months ?-I do not thmk rt, unless we have sharper frosts than we have here.

1485. Have you had any experience with the Westinghouse brake ?-Only on the trial trip. 1486. I presume you had no difficulty in working the W estinghouse bmke so far as you had to do it

on the trial trips ?-No.

Frank Bell, t<>Aiinrud,

6th Fell. 188&

s. T. Kaxwell, 6th Feb. 1888,

S. T. Maxwell, continued,

fith l•'ch. H~,s::J.

Rcuben Walker, 5tll l'cb. 1&83.

40

UH7. By ilh·. Campbell (tlt.rongh, tlw Chairman).-Aftor the bra,kes were released from the side handle,:, w:1.s the brake nHed in the snbsO(JlWnt l"toppago mnde ?-\Vhat train?

1188. This failure you speak of, having to release the bmke by t.lw side handles, was the Lrake used ou the subsequent stoppage;; ?-Only the engine and guanl's brake.

Tlte witness withdrew.

Roubon Walker examined.

1-!89. B!! the Board.-What arc you ?-A guard on the \Villiamstown line. 1490. Have you heen working on any other line than that?-On the goods about a year. 1491. Not with the Woods brake ?-No. 1492. Have you found that the Woods brake gave much trouble on the Williamstown line ?-No. 1493. Have you been stuck up at all ?-Never stuck up. 1494. Never stopped when between stations ?-~o. 1496. Have you found that the hose pipes sometimes slipped off, and that the brake went on in

consequence without you wishing it to ?-Sometimes I have found that the nozzle has not been put in properly at the end of tlw van ; that is through the carelessness of the coupler up.

I~t96. I suppose that then it would haul you up ?-We pulled up. It would not pull us up altogether. I have stopped and put it in, because of the wasting of the water.

1497. Do they overshoot stations very frequent.ly ?-No. I have been running ever since it came out, and I ran by once at Yarraville.

1498. I presume you were a guard before the Woods brake was applied ?-Yes. 1499. From the experience you have had with both trains, with brakes and without, which do you

pro fer ?-The Woods brake. 1500. You prefer trains with the bmkes ?-Yes. 1501. Why ?-It ill a saving of time. You save ten minutes between here and \Villiamstown. 1502. You can mn faster ?-Y cs ; and go into the station twenty-five miles an hour. 1503. Have you ever experienced a difficulty in starting from stations ?-There is a little at

Yarraville at times with the engine. 1504. Whatis the cause of that ?-I do not know. 1605. For anything you know that may be the formation of the road ?-The road is rather heavy. 1606. Have they to reverse frequently, and get away in that fashion ?-In some instances they have;

that is when we have a very heavy train, 1lftoen or sixteen carriages. 1507. You do not think that difficulty arose from the use of the brake ?-No. 1508. Does the brake release rapidly, as soon as it is wantell ?-Yes, it goes off very quickly. 1509. I suppose you keep it on till just when you start ?-Some drhrers get it off before, others are

rather dilatory. 1510. By J11r. TJ7oods (tkrouglt tlte Cltairman).-Havc yon been running the brake all the while

:;ince it ;;tarted ?-Yes, with the exception of seven or eight month;:;. 1511. Did the Williamstown trains make good time before the brake was applied ?-No. 1512. How much time were you late in getting into Melbourne ?-In many instances ten minutes

late, becnnso you have to crawl into the platform::;. 1513. And then you had two stations lcsH than now ?-Yes, Edom and Yarraville, and longer and

heavier trains. 1514. Do you remember what the time table was from Williamstown then ?-Thirty minutes. 1515. ·what was it after the brake was adopted ?-Twenty-five at the first onset; it was twenty with

some of the train;;. 1516. Aud then it was made into twenty-five ?-Yes. 1517. With two more stations to stop at?-Yes. 1518. AIHl what result in getting here into Melbourne?-W c get in here according to the time tables. 1510. Do yon think you vary-as a rule a rnimtte late '?-No, we do not. 1520. You arrive either here or William::;town ?-It is rather under time than over it, about a minute. l5:B. Do ytlu remember the times when the vans were taken off for the wheat trains ?-Yes. 1522. Were you running the trains then ?-Yes. 152:1. About how many passengers would there be in some of the trains, morning and evening?_..

Between 300 and 400. 1524. Did you keep your time with those trains ?-No, we were late. 1525. On many occasions, or as a rule ?-Those long trains were late. 152G. How much ?-Eight or nine minutes. J 527. In going to Williamstown ?-In going down to vVilliamstown from here. 1528. You had no hrakc except the continuous brake then ?-No. 1 5:.!\1. And three level junctions to cross ?-Y cs.

•1530. Did you ever fi1~d any inconvenience or danger, in point of fact, the want of a brake van at all for brake purposes ?-No.

1531. By tlte Board.-What is the tlistance from :Melbourne to Williamstown ?-Nine miles. 1 532. And how long do you take ?-Half an hour, and some trains twenty-five minutes, according

to the time tnhlo. 1533. The generality of the trains are half-hour trains?-Yes. l i~LI. That is the Willlamstown wharf ?-No, Williamstown South. To go down to the pier is

nine mile.~ nml a q uartcr. All trains do not go to the pier. 1rJiJ5. ll!J ,Hr. Campbell (through the Chairman).-Were the hand brakes on the Yankee carriages

ever usoll during the wheat season in which the trains were run without brake vans ?-The hand brakes were taken off, the ehains were disconnected, nnd we hall the continuous brake on the Yankee car.

The witness withdrew.

41

William Burrows examined. 1536. By tlte Board.-What are you ?-Engine-driver. 1537. Where ?-On the Williamstown line mostly. 1538. Have yon driven on the Main line to Sandhurst ?-Not for fifteen or.sixteen years. 1539. Have you driven on any of the other Main lines ?-No; I have been driving on the Williams­

town these fifteen or sixteen years, except only occasionally when I am acting night foreman. 1540. Then you have had some experience with the Woods brake on the Williamstown line?-Yes. 1541. Do you remember being hauled up by the brake between stations on any occasion ?-Yes, on

two occasions. 1542. What stations did that happen between ?-One was just as I shut off in approaching North

Melbourne station, and the other was just on this side of Saltwater River bridge. 1543. Can you explain the cause?-Yes ; one of the hose pipes bursting. 1544. Indiarubber ?-The indiarubber and canvas together. 1545. And what was done to remedy that ?-The brakes were taken off the train. I just run back

and lowered the lever down. 1546. Are those the only occasions you can recollect having been stopped in that way?-Yes. 1547. Did you ever run past stations when you had the brake train on ?-I have run past, but it has

been a very few times indeed. 1548. What has been the cause of that ?-This much I must say-I never ran past to my knowledge

through the fault of the brake-never a single time. Yes, I did once ; no, twice; and I will tell you what it was. That was just after the brake was put on.

1549. Is that some five years ago ?-No; it is not five years ago, but about four I think. I have no dates of anything.

1550. What was the cause of your running through ?-We had at that time an indifferent hose bag for filling our tank, and it had got very much frayed out at the bottom, and it had gone into our tank and the water-some of the small fibres of the cloth-and got through the pump, gone through into the strainer of the brake ; and when I came to Melbourne I asked them to look at the valve or the strainer, and they went to the strainer and cleaned it out in about three minutes altogether, and the brake was on as good as ever. And on another occasion was when I was on the down journey, in about six or eight weeks ; the other occurred with the same thing, but I was on the down journey at the time.

1551. The same cause in both cases ?-Yes. 1552. I suppose the brake goes off instantly, so soon as it is released from the engine?-Yes. 1553. You never hang fire at stations in consequence of the brake clinging to the wheels ?-That

depends on circumstances. If you have a sufficient pressure on your engine accumulator it will go off immediately, but in t.he event of your not having a sufficient pressure in your accumulator before you take it off there is not pressure enough goes in to take the brakes from the wheels.

1554. What amount of pressure do you find sufficient for that work ?-If the brake is in good order, about 70 lbs. will take it off.

1555. In ordinary practice, what would you consider you ought to have, in order to overcome any defects in the brake, and to be quite sure of what you are doing ?-About the usual pressure is kept in the brake during the year. I run it always from 100 to 90 lbs. in the brake indicator.

1556. And if you got below 90 you begin to think you might not get away from stations so quick as you ought ?-It will take it off at 60, but it is slower in its action.

1557. I suppose you could tell us something about the relative cons.umption of fuel with brake train1> and those which have not got brakes, running on the same section-for instance, from here to Williamstown ?-I do not think it makes that difference that the driver could tell unless his coal or fuel was weighed for him.

1558. It is not sufficient to draw the driver's attention to it ?-No ; as there is not much. There is only the resistance of pumping it into the carriages.

1559. What about water ?-I cannot exactly say what amount of water it takes; but what shall I say now- I should think about half-a-bucket for six carriages, on the average; a fair-sized bucket, such as they feed horses with.

1560. Each time the brake is put on ?-Yes ; that is as near as I could tell. 15tH. That would be a bucket-load for a train of ten or eleven carriages ?-Yes; or it might be a

little more. But you must bear in mind my sayings are all from observations. I have never taken any measurements.

1562. In working those trains have you ever observed that the rails got wet through the water running upon them from the carriages?-Yes ; it is a noted fact that when the rails are wet the brake holds better.

1563. But what I want to know is-on the 'Villiamstown line, where trains are running frequently, does the preceding train wet the rails for the train you may be driving ?-No ; you sec the waste water goes in the centre of the road. I fancy, now you speak of it, that I have seen spurts occasionally, but very seldom, from a train that has passed.

1564. In such a case would you consider that the brake would have to be applied early, to grip as well ?-No, not the Woods brake.

1565. Does a little water add to the power of the brake ?-If it is thoroughly wet. 1566. Does only a little ?-It is like an engine brake then, but not to the same amount, Woods

brake-when it is ever so slippery, where it has been raining slightly and lies in drops on the rail-Woods brake will hold better then than even in dry weather, so that a drop of water on to the rail, the waste water, is an advantage instead of being a disadvantage.

156'7. How do you account for that ?-I can only account for it in the \V'l~shing dust or loose substnnces off the two metals gives a greater adhesion together.

1568. By .Ltir. Camphell (through the Chairman).-Would you consider that the carriage wheel would skid more lightly when the wheel was a little wet ?-When it was a little wet I think it would.

liiH9. By 1Ur. Woods (througlt the Chairman).-Do you remember any instances where through the action of the Woods brake collisions have been avoided?-Yes.

1570. Will you mention them ?-I cannot give the date. I remember one in particular; but several times I fancied it in myself we should have had a rub together if it had not been for them ; but this

BaAJIEB BOARD. F

Willlam Burrows 5tll Feb. 1883.

42

WllliamBurrows time I was coming in with the 10.20 train from vVilliamstown into Melbourne, and emerging from the 5J;'].~~:"i~sa. opposite side of the engine shed the pointsman was allowing an empty engine to go out to a passenger train.

W. llferrlman; nth Feb. 1ssa.

1571. Tle empty engine was allowed to cross in front of you ?-Yes, cross over the road where I had to go over. I saw this man's smoke, but I did not see him just coming round the point of the shed ; and I thought, "That is an engine coming up," and we should just meet on this crossing, and I looked again, and I thought he was going to stop, and I saw he was not, so I put the brake on and stopped about half an engine short of the road he was travelling.

1572. Any other occasions?-On several occasions at the roadside stations I should have run over people, if it had not been for the brake, in crossing from side to side.

1573. You have made use of the brake to prevent loss of life in that way ?-Yes, several times. 1574. And without a continuous brake you are sure a collision would have taken place-pa.rticul(trly

the collision of the engine ?-I do, as sure as I sit here. 1575. ¥V ere you driving when the lives of the two boys were saved across the line ?-No, but three

different people at Footscray have been saved through the Woods brake, and myself applying it. There is this I wish to mention : ·For some time back, I suppose eighteen months ago, we used to take the full advantage of Woods brake at this time. Previous to that time I speak of, the people having to cross over from side to side at the stations, it was thought that the speed was too great, and they reduced our travelling speed along that platform to four miles an hour. Consequently we lost to a great extent the use of Woods brake in making a good pull up.

1576. By Mr. Campbell (through the Chai1·man).-What speed were you going at when you applied your brake with the engine going across the line ?-I suppose about twenty miles per hour.

1577. What distance did you draw up in ?-Equal to six ordinary can·iages. 1578. vVhat distance were you away from this engine when you determined to put your brake on,

as near as you could recollect ?-I should think from the time I applied it to where we stopped was about eight carriage-lengths, and our train was six.

1579. By Mr. Woods (through the Chairman).-Were there a number of passengers in the train on this occasion ?-Yes, a good number.

15!:l0. A busy train ?-Well fair. I should think about half full that train is usually. The witness withdrew.

William Merriman examined. 1581. By the Board.-What are you ?-Engine-driver. 1582. Where ?-On the North-Eastern. 1583. You drove the trains on the brake trials the other day ?-Yes. 1584. Previous to taking the engine, on the first day of trial, had you bad any experience with the

W estinghouse brake ?-Only with an engine. 1585. Where did you get experience with the engine ?-On the North-Eastern. 1586. Was the engine fitted with the brake apparatus at that time ?-When the engine was fitted

then she was handed over to me-not before. 1587. Then you had worked this Westinghouse brake before, as far as the engine is concerned, on

the North-Eastern line ?-Yes. 1588. How many months had you it in your hands previous to the trials ?-About three months. 1589. The thing was·not new to you in any way ?-Yes, it was new to me. 1 590. On the day of trial ?-Oh no. 1591. You had three months' previous experience before that ?-Yes, with the engine alone. 1592. Is there any difference between the application of the brake to the engine and the application

to both engine and train ?-No difference. 1593. You simply go through the same manipulation in both cases ?-Yes. 1594. I suppose you had every confidence in what you were doing at the brake trials. You did not

feel ·at all strange to the business ?-I had not run a trip with the train. - 1595. But as far as putting on the brake was concerned you bad every confidence in that ?-Yes.

1596. Do you consider that you made any mistake at those trials at all. Were you satisfied with what you did ?-As far as I am concerned, I did my duty.

1597. You think you did it just as well as if you bad a week's practice previously ?-No, I cannot say that; I might have done better.

1598. Where did you fail ?-I might have failed in putting on. 1599. In time?-Yes. 1600. Can you recall any occasion on which you are sure you were behind time in putting it on?­

No ; but I had had no practice with a train, and it is a little awkward at first. 1601. Still you had been on the engine two months before that, and knew all about working it ?-Yes. 1602. And there is no difference between working the engine and the full train ?-No, not with

working the handle. 1603. Can you recollect whether the handles leaked then without being operated by you ?-There

was once, I think, it choked a little. 1604. At one of the trials?-Yes ; I did not notice it myself. I failed a little, but I could not say

whether I caught it with my leg or it worked on a little itself. It is just where my leg stands. 1605. Was that the only occasion on which you know of the handle turning occasionally ?-I do not

remember there was any more. 1606. I mean when you have been working the engine alone ?-I never knew it with the engine alone. 1607. Have you used the engine when you have been working on the North Eastern-l1ave you used

the brake to stop ?-Every station ; scarcely one station but what I would use it. 1608. Have you ever found that the pumping engine of No. 108 failed to work when you wanted

it ?-Not once. 1609. Always been lively?-Yes. 1610. No difficulty in keeping up your prcssure?-Notin the least; that is lOO lbs. and no more. 1611. Have you ever had any failure with the brake on 108 ?-Not once. 1612. Always did its work when it was wanted ?-Yes.

43

1613. Has any of the brake gear been clumged since you had the engine ?-Sot that I am aware of. There was one rod broke but that was all.

1614. Which one ?-That was one of the tie rods of the brake blocks, and I had that mended. 1615. Any of the vahes ?-No. 1616. Has that handle on the engineman's footplate been chnnged at all ?-No; it is the same handle,

or, if it has, it is unknown to me. It ahvays looked to me to be the same ham1le. 1617. Had you any instructions at all from Mr. Camphell ns to pressme in rnnning the trials?-Yes. 1618. Did you carry out the instrnetiollH ?-As far m; lay in my power, I did. 1619. By "~fr. Campbell (tltrouglt tlte Clwinnan ).-Ditl you ever know the \Voods brake aecnmu-

lator to lnm;t ?-One. 1620. Which engine wat! that ?-No. 60. I did not have the engine. 1621. Have von ever run on the SmHlhurst line ?-I have run on the Sandhurst line. 1622. Did y;u ever find the water cranes there affected by ice ?-Y os. 1623. Are you aware of driver Roilly having piekod up some vehicles at Kyneton station with the

water in the brake pipes frozen ?-.:'\o. I have not been running on that line for a long time. I have known the water cranes to be frozen on the N orth-Eastcrn line, and I could not get any water at Wall an and at Seymonr, and I have thawed them with waste and fire.

1 GU. By the Board.-Have you had any expcrienee of the Woods brake upon those l\fain lines?-No.

1G25. Can you tell us the name of the driver who had No. 60 when this burst ?-Henry Alder. lG26. \Ve have evidence that there was an acenmulator struck by something on the nmd that bulged

it. or ruptured it in that way ; do yon know whether this acenmnlator you spoke of was the one ?-About lmlf of it was blown away. 'Vhen I looked at it it waR hooked on to me, so of course I heard the and I examined my engine, and he was examining his, and found it was the case.

1627. By 1lfr. Campbell (thrm<,qh the Chnirrnan).~You suppose that the failure of this reservoir could have been due to some object striking the reservoir nnd breaking it into two ?-I do not think there were any marks about the engine, or the up van, or the firebox, and there were no marks about the up van or the engine. The ;;hort time I was there I could not tell. It was not my engine.

1628. What was the opinion come to between you and the other driver as to the cause of its failing? -It burst.

I 629. By the Board.-Throngh excessive pressure ?-That is the conclusion. 1630. What line was that on ?-The North-Eastern. 1631. By ilfr. Woods (through the Ghairman).-Was it wrought iron or cast iron ?-Cast iron.

The witness withdrew.

John Stokes examined.

1632. By tlte Board.-What are you ?-Carriage inspector. 1633. We have it in evidence that indiarubber hose on the Woods brake trains have failed, both by

bursting and by slipping off the nozzles; can you say whether that is a frequent experience ?-It is a frequent experience, their bursting, but not slipping off the nozzles.

1634. Do they burst now as much ar; they used ?-Occasionally, not so much as they used to. 1635. How do you account for that ?-I think it is an inferior quality of materiaL 1636. Is there any difficulty in getting a mttterial that will stand ?-That I do not know. As I

understand, material has been taken just as it has been in the market, there has not been anything imported. 1637. What opinion would you arrive at about this material-do you think it is all too weak that is

employed, or is some of it sufficiently strong ?-My opinion is that it is of an inferior quality, that it is perhaps rotten.

1638. The whole of it ?-:No, but that which has frequently burst, I suppose that is the cause of it, because of inferior quality. I have no doubt there were hose pipes on the train which were on the first day it came out.

1639. Is it all the same brand ?-I do not know anything of that. It is supplied to me ready to put on the carriages.

1640. You do not know where it comes from ?-No. 1641. Do you employ any fitters or other men specially at work looking after these brake trains?-

One fitter. 1642. What is his name ?-McLean. 1643. Any other man except 1\IcLean ?-Only a boy. 1644. What are their particular duties ?-Their particular duties are to look after the brake, and keep

it in efficient order. 1645. And how many carriages will they have in their hands, think you, roughly ?-I should say

100 carriages continually working. 1646. And do you find that those 100 caniages give much trouble ?-No, they do not give much

trouble. 1647. What is the work which this fitter, McLean, and the boy chiefly do ?-Renewals of blocks,

that is a very great item; renewals of hose pipes, if they burst; and renewals of leathers in the plungers. 1648. Do the ports give much trouble ?-Not much, unless some dirt gets in them occasionally, but

not frequently. 1649. What is your practice as to the renewal of the water under the carriages-how long do you

allow a carriage to run before you consider the brake ought to be renewed?-.. Without the accumulators being emptied, do you mean?

1650. Yes?-We empty them weekly on the Main line and every other day on the Williamstown. 1651. And how much water is taken on those occasions from each accumulator ?-That I could not say. 1652. Speaking generally-in gallons or buckets ?-I should say a bucket of water would be quite

as much as would be taken from any one of them, but I never took sufficient notice when they were being let out.

1653. Then the water is supplied from the engine that fills them again ?-Yes. 1654. You we:re with the brake trains on trial the other day ?-Yes.

w. MeiTimnn, wntinued,

IIth Fcb, 1883.

John Stokes, lllh Feb. 1888•

,John Stokes, omtinutd.

5th Feb. 1883,

A. P. Greaves, bth Feb. 1883.

44

1655. Did you notice if any special provision was m:ule with the Woods brake ; was there anything special done to enable it to pass through the trials different from what is done in ordinary working ?-There was nothing whatever done here in Melbourne; the carriages came from 'Villiamstowu, and they went away within an hour of arrivaL

1656. Would you expect to get similar results from a train just out of tmffi.c, and tested in the same way ?-I would.

1657. Have you got any men travelling with the trains when they go on the Main line to keep them in order ?-No; all repairs are done in Melbourne.

1658. Is it necessary to take trains out of the traffic frequently on aeeount of repairs required to the brake apparatus ?-No.

1659. Or carriages ?-No. 1660. Then, compared with cases of hot axles, do you consider the carriages have to be taken ont of

traffic for doing repairs to the brake apparatus more frequently than they have to be taken out of traffic through hot axles or worn brasses, or anything of that kind ?-No, not takt•n out of traffic, becanst3 all repairs are done, and the vehicles arc kept in traffic.

1661. Then, in your opinion, there is no unusual amount of repairs required to the brake apparatus? -No.

1662. Can you give any answer as to how many failures occur a week of all classes ?-I should think not one that comes under within my knowledge.

1663. Can you say how many train miles of Woods brake trains are executing altogether out of Melbourne ?-No.

1664. Has McLean any laborers besides this boy ?-No. 1665. By Mr. Campbell (through tlte Chairman).-What is the average life of a hose pipe ?-From

a former question I could not give the average life, but I have no doubt there are pipes on that were on when the trains were first fitted ; others will not last three days.

1666. By the Board.-Have you any period of time at which you renew the hose pipes-do you keep any record of their mileage ?-No, none whatever.

1667. By 111-r. Woods (througlt the Chairrnan).-Do you remember the first two carriages to which the brake was applied some five years ago ?-Can you give the numbers ?

l6t)8. They were two second cln~s six-wheelers ?-I could not guarantee they were really the first, they are now in existence.

1669. Have they been running ever since ? -Yes. 1670. What has been the cost of repairs on them ? -Very little indeed. 1671. Wlmt, wonll you say is the cost of repairs from your own judgment, without going into

particulars. You have 100 carriages-what is the cost of repairs for twelve months, including brake blocks, leathers, hose, fitters ; in point of fact, all charges due ro the brake and to the brake only ?-It would take a little time to come at that. There arc the men's waget> to commence with.

1672. Then call it a week. You have the fitter and the boys, and you can take the average number of brake blocks and breakages ?-.From £5 to £6 on 100 caniages, that is one shilling a carriage a week.

1673. By the Board.-Have you any records to ascertain such cost ?-I have kept an account of the repairs.

1674. Do you keep the records in money columns to ascertain that ?-No, I supply that to the accountant.

1675. Then you have no means to get at that ?-No. 1676. It may be more or less ?-It may be more or less. 1677. By .,:+Jr. Woods (tltrouglt tile Chairman).-Do the man and boy do anything else ?-No, not

in the usual wny. Of course, if I want them for a day they would do it. 1()78. By tlte Board.-Beforc the Woods brake was introduced there was only one brake carriage

on the train, I presume ?-One. 1679. Is the cost of attending brake trains greater than it was when you had only one brake van ou

the trains ?-Yes. 1680. Is it much greater ?-Oh yes, considerably. 1681. Then, assuming that yon had a train made up of American carriages with hand brakes on

each carriage, do you consider that the attention required for the Woods brake train would be greater than it would be under such a ease as that ?-If you worked the brakes, the hand brake upon each carriage, the ·woods brake would not be greater, I ~hould suppose.

1682. B;y J.llr. Campbell (tltroug!t tlte Chairman).-What class of blocks is on the brah.e vans-wood or iron ?-Wood.

1683. By the Board.-Why are they wood ?-They ha Ye alwuys been wood; brake vans generally are wood, with one exception.

1684. Why do not you change them to iron ?-I really do uot know why they do not, but the brake vans are not worked generally by the Woods brake.

1685. Do you recollect the cause of the reservoir bursting under the engine on the road ?-No. 1686. Did you eYer know of a resen·oir hnrstiug under a carriage-an accumulator ?-No. Hi87. By Mr. Woods (tlt1·ouglt tlw Cltuirmau).-You remember the trials we had a little while

ago ?-Yes. 1G88. Did vou notice the Westinghouse train ?-Yes. 1689. And.did vou notice the other train with the Woods brake ?-Yes. 1690. Do you know the number of blocks applied to the wheels in each case.-Yes, there is a record

of that. The witness withdrew.

Arthur Pierrepont Greaves examined.

1691. By the Board.-What is your profession ?-Locomotive engineer. Hi92. Y on were at the brake trials the other day ?-I was at all the brake trials. 1693. We are anxious to get useful information from observers-can you tell us anything concerning

them that may be useful ?-I may tell you that I have paid some attention to the two trains that have been running between Brighton and :Melbourne for the last six months.

45

169J. Suppose we confine onrsehes to the brake trials first ?-The first thing I noticed was the want of instantaneous application as regards Mr. ·woods' brake, from the fact that on the first day of the trhtls the gnard mmshed the wooden stop in his eagerness to put on the brake quickly, and therefore carried the valve a little forward to its full open point and then afterwards beyond that. Mr. Wood~ said at the time-or the engineer superintending the Woods brake train said-that it spoiled the stop, as it partially pnt on the brake and then took it off again. Now, if the brake is to be instantaneous, and that is one of the conditions laid down by the Board of Trade, the mere opening of the cock for at least a quarter to half a second ought to be quite ample. That was one of the points that struck me-that the 1rake in question failed in that very important point, because of course one second lost means so many feet travelled according to the speed run.

1695. On that particular point, supposing that any brake-Woods, Westinghouse, or any other­(assumin:;r that the element were air or water which puts on the brake) is allowed to apply itself for a fraction of a second and then cut off, would you not expect that it would destroy the absolute action of the brake ?-Not in the case of the two brakes in question. A reduction of ten per cent. in the pressure in the main pipe of the W estinghouse brake puts it on to almost practically as strong as it will go.

1696. Were you present at the time that the Westinghonse brake was tried in No. 3, the second programme-[ handing a cop:!J to the witnes.~] ?-Yes, I was in the train.

1697. Did the brakes go on and come off?-Yes; there were the distinct jerks so to speak, and I may say I went to the end of the train.

1698. But the mere application of the Westinghouse brake did not stop the train on each occasion; that is to say, the train was partially checked and then the retarding force was removed ?-Exactly.

1699. ·would you not say that that had happened to the Woods brake on the occasion you refer to? -No. So far as I could feel, there was no check beyond the one check that brought the train up to a standstill.

1700. Anything ehe ?-As far as the principle of the brake is concerned, of course the medium used is wntcr, but the actuating power is compressed air. As regards the suburban lines-in fact, as regards any lines-the amount of water that has to be passed by the brake has to be carried by the engine, and such water is required--every gallon of it-for the purposes of evaporation. I never was able to make an exact calculation as to how many gallons were thrown away in nine stoppages between Melbourne and Brighton and between Brighton and Melbourne, but I think it must be something like two hundred and forty gallons, and, as that has to be carried, it is a serious loss. It is not tho mere weight but the absolute loss of power. I l1ave a note or two here, may I refer to them ?

1701. Certainly, if they bear on the point ?-As regards the mode of producing the power, the brake in question-the Woods brake-the power is prodnced by the movement which also forces water into the boiler. Now, I know on several occasions, on talking to drivers on the Main line, they have been seriously nonplussed as regards this movement. They have wanted to use it for the boiler, and they have wanted to use it for the brake, and they could not do both ; and most of the failures of this brake, I believe, have resulted from the use of the injeetor, which destroys the diaphragm vnlve.

1702. On that point, if a man does not wish to use the pump, is there anything to prevent him nsing the injector for feeding his boiler without allowing the action of the injector to pass through the brake apparatus ?-Yes, but they have only one injector, and they complain it is not powerful enongh.

1703. They have an injector and pump ?-Yes. 1704. And if they do not wish to use the pump they can use the injector to feed the boiler alone?­

Yes, that is true; but they complain, most of the drivers, that one simple injector is not powerful enough. 1705. Any other point ?-Then the pressure necessary for putting on the brake as it comes to its full

power is very great. I have seen it myself up to 130 lbs.; beyond that, most of the gauges, I believe, will not give the measure, so we do not know how much more it is, and it seems to me that that is a very great pressure to put even upon ordinary piping, much less the hose that conneets the carriages, and which is necessarily of some elastic material.

1706. Do you mean that the gauges are not registered to more ?-Not beyond 130 lbs. most of them I have seen.

1707. Did you observe the gauges on the occasion of the trials ?-No, I had not an opportunity. 1708. Any other point ?-As regards the action, the diaphragm valve being used as an actuatinrr

valve of the brake, the necessity of having it either entirely on or entirely off, there is none of that graduating power which is so absolutely necessary for ordinary daily work ; steadying a train down an fncline or round a curve is an impossibility, so far as the word "steadying" is concerned. It can be broucrht at a certain speed by use of jerks which would be unpleasant.

0 1709. Any other point ?-~o, I think that is all. Those are the chief points that struck me

Tlte witness witltdrew.

John McTaggart examined.

1710. B.v tke Board.-What are you ?-I have followed the business of an engineer. 1711. 'Vhat are you at present ?-A fitter. 1712. Where ?-The South Suburban line. 1713. Were you at the brake trials ?-Yes. 1714. Who sent you there ?-Mr. :J.!irls. 1715. Did he give give you any instructions ?-None whatever, only to follow the train. 1716. To be present with the train ?-Yes. 1717. What are your duties on the South Suburban lines ?-To instruct the drivers and firemen as

to their duty. 1718. Do you repair the carriages when they want repairing ?-When they do. 1719. Do you carry out any general repairs to carriages, such as axle-boxes ?-No. 1720. You attend to the brake apparatus alone ?-I attend to the brake apparatus alone. 1721. Have you any assistant there ?-No more than what the W estinghouse company has. 1722. Have you any assistant belonging to the Railway Department-anybody to help you ?-Yes;

in the event of anything being required I get assistance. 1723. You have a boy there ?-He is a lump of a lad.

A. P. Gretwes, cOfltinu.ed,

5th Feb. 188:1.

.rohn McTaggntt, 6th Feb. 1883.

John lll:eTaggart, rontinued,

5th Feb. 1883.

46

1724. Is he constantly with you ?-No. 1725. How many carriages are there over there fitted with the Woods brake ?-Eight carriages 11nd

two vans. 1726. Only one train ?-Only one train. 1727. Is your time fully employed on those carriages ?-Not unless following up the train-the same

as the opposition. 1728. You travel by the train to see that all goes well ?-Yes, occasionally. 1729. Have you frequent occasion to repair or alter those Woods brake carriages ?-No ; but for

your information, there is one day in the week that both trains-the Woods and the Westinghouse--are put away--one on the Wednesday and one on the Thursday-for cleaning out of the carriages, and then as for any loose bolts under the train they would be examined.

1730. Have you any recollection of the Woods train having been taken out of traffic on account of breakdowns ?-Never was broken down-never since I went across on 20th September.

1731. Then you and this boy who is with you are not fully employed upon repairing those carriages ? -No. You will understand he lends his assistance to the Westinghouse company in the same manner when required.

1732. Do you do that also ?-No. 1733. How many men have the Westinghouse people looking after their train ?-Two, and the

assistance of the other one-Mr. Campbell and 1\:lr. Lorimer, aud this young lad-unless a certain occasion that they had a breakdown with their van, and they had the assistance of Fairweather, and occasionally the carriage inspector, but I was not there present.

1734. Do you know the nature of that breakdown it was the spindle connected with the piston underneath the van. I was not there myself.

1735. You are quite sure the van was taken t>ut of traffic?-Yes. I was running with my train, and I asked Mr. Campbell what was the matter with his train when the van was taken off.

1736. Have you found that the hose pipes give much trouble on the Woods train ?-Unless on the 2nd October; I have given a list of all that to Mr. Strong, the accountant-all repairs vehicles and such like.

1737. On the 2nd of October ?-That was the first, but you will understand that that train had been running for some time before I went over.

1738. By JJfr. Campbell (through the Chairman).-Was there any other hose pipe besides that on the 2nd September ?-There were hose pipes burst by accident. You will get a list of that in my hand­writing if you apply for it.

1739. By the Board.-Can you give, from your recollection, the information asked for ?-On the 2nd October there was No. 109 A, one hose pipe that was burst by accident at the Middle Brighton station. On No. 32 engine there was another.

17 40. Was that on the same day ?-November the 2nd, on No. 34 there was a hose burst through negligence in coupling ; purely accidental. I would not throw any blame on the man, but it was want of knowledge rather.

1741. Any other?-On the 14th ,January there was one hose pipe. You will understand that that hose pipe when I saw it I considered it was stabbed or burst, and after putting it away and letting it get dry and examining it I really could not say whether it was or not. You can see it. I think it is the material.

17 42. Will you send it in to us ?-Yes. Then again on the 16th J an nary there was another hose pipe burst or cut. The first I spoke of is 19 H B, that was the one that was stabbed or burst, and the one upon 13 AB D is burst or cut; you can judge of that yourselves.

1743. By Mr. Campbell (through the Chairman).-Were there any further repairs effected to the brake train ?-Yes, a few indiarubbers, and it is for you to decide what is the quality. It is inferior material that has been sent here; that is the quality-[handing in the two rubbers belonging to the diaphragm, one a new one, and one that had been used]. It is not good either for heat or cold.

1744. A few indiarubbers were renewed ?-Yes, I can give you a list of that. This one would last for nine months-[ handing in another]. That also is referred to in my report.

17 45. By the Board.-Were you over there on the South Suburban lines at the time the Westing­house brake was first fitted up ?-No ; the W estinghouse brake was running before I went across there, and I did not go across till the 20th September.

17 46. Since you have been there have you ever heard of draw bars being broken on theW estinghouse train ?-No, but there was a coupling broken that I am aware of.

1747. Any buffer springs, have they given way on the Westinghouse train ?-They all break less or more.

1748. None of them have broken ?-No, none have been renewed that I am aware of. 1749. By Mr. Ca;mpbell (thro~tgh tlte Chairman).-What did you mean by the spindle broken?­

The spindle connected with the cylinder underneath 12 AB D. 1750. Had it a jaw upon it that took hold of the lever?-Yes. 1751. Was it the jaw that broke ?-I cannot tell you, but the young man that asE;isted them along

with the carriage inspector's assistant can give you the information. 1752. For anything you know it might have been the cross-head ?-For anything I know, I do not

know anything about it ; I could not say if the hose pipe was either stabbed or burst. The hose pipe was wet when I saw it, and after allowing it to get dry-in my own opinion, I consider it was the bad quality of the material; but it is for you to see the pipes.

1753. By the Board.-Is it a common occurrenre for those diaphragms to give way ?-No, it is not~ but this one is very bad material.

1754. You ean get good material. How long does the good material last ?-About eight months; that is if there is no injector used.

1755. Was it the three diaphragms that gave way at the trials ?-No. 1756. You remember the Woods brake train was found to be leaking, and the three carriages, when

we got back to the Werribee, the other day-what was wrong with the diaphragms ?-I lay that down to want of pressure.

1757. Were the diaphragms destroyed ?-No.

47

17 58. You did not renew them on that occasion ?-No ; I remember that the casting gave way on John Mc~gait, another occa:;;ion; I can show you that casting. llt~.ISS3.

1759. What repairs did you effect on that particular occasion when the diaphragms under No, 3 seemed to be leaking ?-None whatever, but just ran back and filled it up with cold water.

1760. That seemed to cure it ?-Yes. 1761. ~When the casting broke do you remember ?-That was broken through the carelessness of

the guard not shutting his cock-the release of the drivers coming back-the rebound. I so happened to be up at the second carriage from the van, and you will recollect you were there, and on the road side. When I came down I thought it was the hose pipe, and had a new one in my hand to put it on, but on going between the two carriages, I saw where the casting had gone.

1762. Will you send that in along with the hose pipe ?-Yes, to-morrow morning. 1763. Is it your opinion that this casting burst through sheer pressure ?-No; there may have been

blow-holes in the casting; they are not very particular in Williamstown in examining the manner in which a casting is cast. It is in two sand boxes.

1764. Was there any possibility of it having been struck by anything-side chains or anything of that kind ?-No, I do not think it.

1765. When you uncoupled the side chains, to put on the hose, did you destroy the ring in any way ?-No.

Tke ~vitness witkdrew.

Robert Buchanan Campbell further examined.

1766. By the Board.-Please confine yourself to the Westinghouse trials, and to the 25th January trial, No. 3, first Westinghouse-have you anything to say about that ?-It was a second late in its application.

1767. Any other remark to make about that particular trial ?-If I am allowed to draw an inference from its

1768. Are you aware how those times were taken, by stop watch ?-It was sixteen seconds and 575 feet.

1769. Were they taken by stop watches on passing the green :flag and another when arriving at rest?-Yes.

1770. Could you suggest any better way of taking them ?-None. 1771. Was this particular trial taken in this way?-Yes. 1772. Now coming to No. 4 test of the day, also Westinghouse, have you any remark to make as to

that ?-That the speed for which the test was designed was not attained, therefore the pressure used was too great for the speed attained.

1773. Anything else about that ?-Nothing but the sequence which follows from that. 1774. I may say that the number of wheels skidded have been recorded, and will appear most likely

in the Appendix of our report. We have the information, and intend to deal with it as far as possible. Now No. 7 of that day also was made by the Woods brake. The Westinghouse test was run 498 feet, which we call No. 7 ?-I have nothing to say anent that.

177 5. Then the next following with the Westinghouse, No. 8, 660 feet ?-I have nothing about that either.

1776. Then we go on to the second day, the 26th January, No. 2 test of the day, which was the Westinghouse train; have you anything to say about that ?-Yes, the rails were wetted by the Woods brake on the preceding trial. The W estinghouse wheels were skidded on account of that.

1777. Did you see the rails wetted yourself ?-No. 1778. How do you know they were ?-I judge from the effect on our train. 1779. You did not see any wet ?-No. 1780. If the test did not please you, is it fair to say the rails were wetted ?-I was on the engine on

both occasions and I had not time to see~it. I noticed the effect on the application of the brake at the vVerribce; the water was squirting out from under the diaphragm.

1781. You must speak of your own knowledge; you admit you saw no such wet on the rails yourself?-Yes.

1782. Have you any other remark to make ?-None. 1783. Now take the third test of the day, the Westinghouse test; anything about that ?-No. 1784. The fourth test ?-None. 1785. The fifth test?-Was there a fifth test of the W estinghousc brake on the second day? 1786. Fourth of the Westinghouse, fifth of the day ?-None. 1787. Now coming to the 30th of January, in which you ran the third test of the day with No. 25

engine ?-None. 1788. And the fourth of the day with No. 25 engine also ?-Nothing. 1789. Then the seventh of the day, No. 3, "On passing green Bag the brakes of both trains to be

put on and taken off three times in succession'' ?-I have nothing to say about that. 1790. No. 9, the slip test, in which the train Ktoppcd 372 feet ?-I have nothing to say abont that if

the test was allowed. 1791. No.IO, 400 feet?-I have nothing to say about it. 1792. It was a repetition on account of sand being said to have rnn from the sand pipe ?-No, I

have only to say I positively forbade the use of sand. 1793. Coming to the following day, when we went up the incline--you had tests No. 3 and 4 ?­

I was quite satisfied with both. 1794. Now as to the Woods brake-the 25th January, the first test. Have you any remark to

make about it ?-The time being taken from the trnin im;tead of from engine could not be got absolutely correct.

1795. It would help us if you would not a~scrt things you cannot show by your own observation. You cannot possibly say it could not. All you could say is it might not. You can draw the attention of the Board to anything that may have caused a discrepauey, hut you cannot assert things beyond your know-

R, B. Campbell, ith Feb. 1883.

48

R. ~~~u, ledge .. Y on must not do so. You may throw as many doubts on the tests as you choose, but not make any 5th Feb. 1883. assertions you cannot prove ?-The time taken here might be wrong, from the time being taken from the

centre of train instead of from engine. 1796. Now, coming to the second test of the day ?-I have nothing to say about that. 1797. Then the fifth test of the day was also a Woods brake test ?-I would like to ask if that is

the test in which the piece of wood broke in the rear van ? · 1798. No, that is not the one ?-Then the stop in which the piece of wood broke off in the rear van is recorded following this one ?

1799. No, it is not recorded at all. I want you to consider now No. 5 test-the 734 feet ?-I have nothing to say about that.

1800. Then No. 6 ?-Nothing. 1801. Then the next day, No. 1 of the first day-742 feet ?-I have nothing to say about that. 1802. No. 6 of that day?-Nothing either. 1803. No. 7 ?-Nothing. 1804. No. 8 ?-Nothing. 1805. Then we come to the tests of the 30th January-the first being the Woods test. Have

you anything to say about that ?-No. 1806. Then the second, applied by guard ?-Nothing. 1807. Then the fifth, in which the light engine ran-No. 40 ?-If I might say in regard to the

second one, it is in excess of those given to the "\Vestinghouse. 1808. Then No. 5 test, which was the small engine ?-I have nothing to say. I was not there at

that test. J 809. No. 6, also with small engine ?-Nothing to say about it.

· 1810. Now No. 8-the time between three stops and starts ?-From the manner in which the driver moved his handle, the brakes might not have been applied four times in succession.

1811. How can you show that ?-No jerks were felt in the trains on application. 1812. Then we will go to the next day-the last. Nos. I and 2 are Woods tests ?-I have nothing

to say about either. 1813. Then that :finishes that part of the evidence. Now I would like to ask your opinion as to

the Woods test which was objected to by Mr. Imray, in which it was suspected that the rear guard had applied the brake ?-Personally, I was not there on the ground. I was on the engine, and therefore could not see the water streaming at the rear of the train, if it did stream out. I may say that Mr. Imray was warned hy some one to look after the guard's van, but purposely did not make mention of this, as he could not find who told him. The second day Mr. Imray closely watched the guard in the van. The third day he was excluded, and with another witness saw water streaming from guard's van, as pointed out on the spot. The fourth day, seeing that guard's van was so closely watched, another carriage-61B-was attached, from several compartments of which the brake might be applied.

1814. Returning to that particular case-have you any reason to suppose that the guard did apply the brake on that particular occasion ?-I can only say that in similar tests made with the "\Voods brake the result--

1815. You must not go into results, I do not want you to judge of the results ?-I was giving the reason.

1816. Have you any reason to suppose that the guard did apply the brake in this particular case?­I was not in a position to sec the van, and therefore cannot give any opinion on the subject.

1817. What is the method of applying the brakes in the ordinary running on the suburban lines ?­I recommend the men to carry about 65 lbs. of air, and in going at a speed possibly between 15 and 20 miles an hour, they reduce the pressure in the brake-pipe about 5 lbs. This applies the blocks to the wheels lightly, and enables us to pull up in the requisite distance.

1818. Is the hand brake applied ?-Yes, on the engine alone, and for this reason--1819. Is it applied before the air brake ?-It is a little immediately before. 1820. Does the guard manipulate the handles in his vans at all ?-Not at all. 1821. We have heard it stated that a number of buffer springs and draw bars were broken on the

first application of the Westinghouse brake apparatus. I think it is a matter that you should take the opportunity of saying something about ; that is on the South Suburban liues ?-There has neither been a buffer spring nor a draw bar broken that I am aware of.

1822. Have there been any couplings broken ?-There has been one screw coupling broken, of a weak description, now being discarded by the Victorian railways.

1823. Have you ever had occasion to change the triple valves ?-'\Ve have cleaned them once since they were put up, nearly eight months ago.

1824. Have the engine valves been changed ?-Not on the suburban engines. I had a 2~·inch valve on No. 108 engine when she came out of the shop. She was :fitted up in "\Villiamstown, and I saw she was scarcely sensitive enough, and I changed the 2fl to a 3-inch triple valve nearly immediately after the engine came up from Williamstown, when I had opportunity of judging the action of the brake.

1825. The engine-man's valves-have you opened them often ?-No, not once; indeed we have not looked at them since they were put up.

1826. Have you ever had any occasion to repair the donkey pumps on any of the engines ?-At first we had one pump wl1ich stopped once or twice. I took the reversing valve out, looked at it, and eased it a little-it had got rather tight through expansion of the material-and put it back, and it has been working since all right.

1827. It has been said on several occasions during the trials, in my hearing, and spoken of generally, that the engine-man driving the "\Vestinghouse engine was strange to the work; have you any statement to make in regard to that ?-At first he decidedly was ; the first trial especially, he did not shut off his steam till he came to the green flag, and after doing that he had to apply his brake, and this was the cause of the "second " delay I spoke of.

1828. Did he seem to do pretty well after that ?-After that I am thoroughly well satisfied with him. I would like to explain the reason of the hand brake being used on the small engines on the ordinary traffic.

49

1829. Why ?-Our brake power on that, in the first place, was limited by the Locomotive Super­intendent, on account of the crank pins; and secondly, as we found out on weighing the engines, there is 10 tons unbraked weight, so that, no matter what brake-power is applied to the engines and carriages, the carriages are more powerfully braked than the engine is, the brake beiug applied, this unbrakeLl weight pulls the train apart more or less at the draw bars, according to tlte power at whicl1 you apply the brake, and on coming to a stand, the engine, on the release of the brake, woulll spring back and jerk the carriages. I was not aware of that when we first began to work the train, bnt afterwards I found out that by applying the hand brake on the engine so as to retanl the engine as much ns the train was being retarded, and then taking oti the air brakes just before the train came to a staml, allowhtg the engine to stop the train for the last 6 feet, and then gently unwinding the hand brake on the engine, allowed the train to be brought to a stand­still without a quiver.

1830. It, is simply for the purpose of steadying the train that the hand brake is applied when entering stations ?-It is simply for the purpose of steadying the train that the hand Lrake is applied when entering stations, and the fact of the engine baviug 10 tons of unl>raked weight.

1831. Which would apply to any engine that had not coupled wheels ?-Yes. 1832. If you have anything further to say, shortly and precisely, we shall be glad to have it now

from you ?-I could only criticise the two Lrakes as to uuiversality of coupling ; the actuating valves, to cut oti any vehicle in a train; compare pressures ; the freezing of the water in the accumulators if the train is allowed to rest at certain points ; or iu any vehicles left there over night, and picked up in the morning, and to point out that the W cstinghouse brake has gone through these trials without any failures. I could only criticise these points, and I leave that entirely to the Board. Will the members of the Board allow quotations from the English Board of Trade returns and circulars, Lecause Mr. W oolls spoke of the Board of Trade having the Westinglwuse brake in view; if the English Board of Trade is to Le brought in at all, shall I Le allowed ?

1833. 1'he Chairrnan.-My own view just now is, that we cannot at the present moment dm1l with any returns of the Board of Trade. If we did, it would open a very large question, which we should have to give you a full opportunity of making remarks abont, and I do not know that it is desired from us to open up that question. I fancy we ha Ye simply to deal with that information we have got on the spot in relation to those two brakes. If the Board of Trade retums are to Le useLl in the consideration of our report, we shall have to give you nu opportunity of giving us further facts ?-I am satisfied with that.

1'he witness withd1'ew.

1'he Woods brake, appa1·at1ts, and plans were laid be[o1·e the Board.

J olm Woods examined.

1834. By tlw Board.-You are the representative of the Woods Brake Company ?-Yes. 1835. You were at the trials ?-I Lelieve I was. 183G. Have you any remark;; to make as to the way in which the trials were conducted ?-No,

except that I was very well satisfied with them all the way through. If there was any error, it was on our own parts. I may say, generally, that I was very much disappointed at having an inferior engine to the one assigne!l to the Westinghouse Company-a very much inferior engine. It steamed Lad, and you could not get up any speed with it. It was against the trials all the way through. And again, the train had not the same Lrake power, as far as the Lrake Llocks are concerned-the same number of whee!H attached with brakes of the same number of blocks in the train. Of course that was against the stoppages. ~With those two exceptions, I have not the slightest remark to make about anything that took place-with auy of the trials that took place-with the solitary exceptions that I have mentioned; certainly nothing with regard to the Board, except that I think the trials were carried out very fairly for Loth parties.

18il7. Then we need not occupy time over that ?-Not in the least, I may state that whatever objection I had I made it to the Board at the time. I ol>jectcd to those ropes at the end of the vaus, because I did not know the ol>ject for which they were put there; and I ol>jected to persons riding in the vaus, I thought it would Le fairer for Loth parties if they did not ride in the vans.

] 838. And I think the Board agreed to take notice of your objection ? -Yes, the Board agreed. 1839. Now we should like to have a detailed explanation about this apparatus applied to yonr Lrako

train ?-It is very simple, it almost explains itself. There is nu accumulator under the engine. 1840. In order to get nt the modus operandi of the affair, we had Letter commence at the pump.

Is the pnmp an ordinary locomotive pump ?-It is an ordinary locomotive pump, or if it is considered necessary a special pump should Le placed on the engine for the purpose.

1841. Has this pump any feeder al>out it that is not used for ordinary locomotive work when water is passed through the Loiler clack Lox ?-None.

1842. iVhere does the water go to in the first instance then with this apparatus ?-Into the accu-mulator-from the pump to the accunmlator.

1843. Direct ?-Direct. 1844. Is there any valve shutting it off to the Loiler direct ?-Certainly. 1845. An ordinary clack valve ?-An ordinary clack valve-nothing else. 184G. Assuming the pressure in the accumulator i~ higher than the prcs;;urc in the Loilor, what

happens ?-Nothing, except that it is confined in the accumulator. It cannot get into the Loiler. 1847. But suppose that you were to rai;;e the pressure five pounds in the accumulator Lcyond the

pressure in the boiler, what would happen ?-Nothing. 1848. Would the water not feed into the Loiler ?-No, certainly not; it could not pass through the

valve. The valve stops it. 1849. iVhich valve stops it ?-You see there is a valve on this pipe; for instance there is a pump

feed pipe going into the accumulator. We have a valve that prevents the return of that water alona that pipe. Of course it will only work one way. So you ca_n have :200 Ius. At any rate I have seen 18"'0 Ills. in the accnmulator and 100 Ius. in the Loiler. In fact that was the case when you were on the engine yourself.

1850. This pipe, Al-[poi11ting to the plan]-is the feed pipe ?-Yes. DR4XES D04BD. G

B. n. Campbell, continued,

5th Feb. 1883.

John Woods 5th Feb. 1883.

John Woods, contintu!d,

bth t· eb. 1883.

50

18iH. Why cannot the water go in this direction up to the clack box instead of passing along there at all ?-We have to stop that. That is specially stopped off. There is a stop Yalve between that and the boiler. Out of two pumps we usually use one pump only, and as a matter of practice, cut that off from the boiler by a steam cock.

1852. Then as a matter of fact, all the water which this pnmp connected with the accumulator throws past must pass through the accumulator before it can reach the boiler ?-That is so.

1853. What is it that allows the higher pressure in the accumulator over the boiler pressnre ?-In practice it is usually found that when they are working at high spcetls the pressnre in the accumulator will go very considerably beyond the pressure in the boiler, and also in practice it is discovered that when the injector is used, you can put a very considerably higher pressure in the accnmulator than you can in the boiler if you want it.

1854. But there is a free communication between the accumulator and the boiler ?-When it is opened.

1855. But how is that closed ?-vVe have not got that pump arrangement here at all. 1856. Can you describe on the diagram ?-I am afraid 1 cannot very clearly. I have nothing

beyond the accumulatoi·, I can have all that here to-morrow morning. 18.'57. We will wait then, as far as that featnrc goes. Then the water, when it has once found its

way into the accumulator, I presume, is admitted to the-brake pipe through this cock ?-Three-way cock -[showing the same J.

18.'58. Of ordinary comtruction ?-Ordinary construction, nothing at all special about it. 1859. In that three-way cock there is one moving piece ?-One moving piece only. 1860. Then having found its way to the first vehicle to be operated on, it passes through what?­

It p;tsscs on into the accumulator. I may say the train io blccked at the other end. 1861. I want to trace its action ?-That accumulator is Ycrtical. That is the original one. We put

them on an angle now. 1862. 1 thought you lmd some photagraphs of the carriage frames ?-Yes, I will get those-[ the same

were sent for]. 1863. The main pipe I think runs through the whole train ?-Through the whole train. 186+. In a straight line ?-In a straight line. 1865. And on that main pipe you have some valves ?-This one valve of course, there is the triple

valve, aml there arc the inlet Yalves here and there into the aceumulator-[pointing to the plan ]-and then there is the triple valve.

1866. This is all one casting ?-It is one piece of mechanism entirely. That is a continuous line of piping. This is the same line of piping in sections-[pointin,q to the plan].

1867. Referring to this tracing (the triple supply valve), the water, 1 presume, enters the accumulator thecugh those two feather valves?-Yes.

1868. And Ly that outlet D ?-Yes. Of conrse I woul(llike to explain that the accumulator now, instead of being placed vertically, io placed at an angle on the air line, and may be represented by the solid part thcre-[pointin,q to tl1e plan].

1869. Then the water-is it taken through the nozzle C from the accumulator ?-To the plunger, that is to say, when the prc~sure is taken from the main pipe.

1870. Only ?-Only from the main pipe. This valve-[pointin.<7 to the sample casting ]-has the water on the top of it. That hold~ it off from the main pipe. Now, the water being on the top of that, this is exactly what happens-the pressures arc all equal, the same pressure in the accumulator that thcee is in the pipe, aml, indee(l, all through; only, those areas being tlifferent, the pressure is relieved from that triple val vc by either the accidental oe intentional lowering of the pressure there. Of course the pressure, which is equal from the accmnnlntor, operates here, alHl delivers the water nmler the plungers, lifts the plungers ; then, when you want to restore it again, this area being so much greater than the area of the lower valve, the pressure being put on from the accumulator closes it instantly, and of course it relieves the brake. You see the amount of motion in the triple valve is about one-sixteenth of an inch; that is really all there is to wear in it.

1871. Then this nozzle C is connected with the main pipe ?-No, not with the main pipe; the main pipe goes direct through. That nozzle crosses from the accumulator to the cylinder, and from the cylinder here.

1872. This nozzle alone, I mulcrstaml, is connected with the accumulator?-Yes. 1873. And that one goes to the cylinders?-Ycs. 1874. After passing through the cock hcre?-Yes. 1873. That cock, 1 presume, is never closed unless you want to shut that caniage off ?-No ; that

cock is never closed unless you want to shut that carriage off. or in case of the brake goiug on automatically on the train for iiistancc, aml you cannot release it from the engine, antl you go and release it Ly just turning this. Then you see there is an amount of stored power in this accumulator that renders this very valuable. That will admit of the brake being put on for a kick shunt or flying shunt, as they are called, perhaps five or six times without rc-chargiug, so that each carriage is a brake power in itself. You sec each carriage in that place, having this accumulator charged, I will put it at the ordinary pressure, say, of 120 lbs. on the square inch, when it is cut off from the train-of comse when you throw the couplings off there, all you succcetl in doing it is to empty the watce out of the main pipe out of the top of this valve, and .leave the water 120 lhs. pressnrc per S!pwrc inch on the accmnulator intact. For instance, in shunting a carriage up an(l down the yard, the handle to thiH cock is carried ont to cme side of the carriage, not to both si(les (we thought it wonld Le simpler with only one), and in practice they find that, where you have to do a good deal of shunting-the flying shunts-now and then they speml a lot of money in running engines with them. They simply take the carriages, and the porter stands on the footboard, and applies the brake by hand. ThiR operation can be repeated five or six times, according to the amount of pressure there happens to be in the accumulator at the time when the carriage is disconnected from the rest of the train.

1876. As to the number of pieces in this triple supply valve, is this cross-bar a separate casting or is it part; of the main casting ?-All one casting.

1877. Then there are two sc·pm·ate !Jieccs in this triple valve ?-Two separate pieces with one movement.

51

1878. Then in the supply valve there arc two valves ?-In the supply valve there are two valves­that is for a check, in ca~e one valve lock~ back. Suppose you take the pre,;sure from the main pipe, and you have the pressme on the back of one vtdve, and h locks a little, you lutve the second one to check it; it is simply a douhle check vah·e.

1879. And iu the hand brake arrangements for applying the brake by hand, or for cutting the brake off, you have one plug ?-,Just one solitary plug.

1880. 'I' he ordinary construction ?-The ordinary con!ltrnction. Just the snme as in three-way cock for applying it.

1881. Then in the coupling apparatus ?-Here it i::l. There are just two pieces of cast-iron held together by a cam-one motion, very quick ami very llimple.

Hs8:2. Did you make receivers under the carriages of cast-iron at one time ?-No; never. I am not quite sure whether there was one or two made in the first instance, hut we substituted copper for them.

1883. An(l they nre of copper now ?-They are of copper now, with rouudeu ends. They are about 8 inches in diameter, about 2 feet 6 iuche~ to iS feet long. In the Yankee carriages they are much longer.

1884. I presume they can be made out of copper pipe ?-They can be made out of copper pipe of that diameter, or can he made out of a nest of copper pipes, for the matter of that. I may remark there are many points in which the brake ill still defeeth·e, and can be improved upon, and it would have been improved upon long ago had it not been for the way in which it has been received here. I did uot care about improving the Lrake much while it was receiving, what I considered, unfair treatment. But one of the improvement<; wa;; suggested by JI.Ir. Burnett-an excellent one too ; in point of fact, there are many point;; in which the brake could be improved without interfering with the principle of action in the smallest degree.

lf:l85. Do you claim any simplicity for the bmke cylinder and its contents ?-That is the plnnger. It is absolutely simple; there is nothing Lnt the plunger in the eylinder with a leather packing. That is the whole of it; and thi::; plunger with three-eighths of an inch motion actuates the brake on that particular caniage, working, of comse, the cam;;. There i:" really nothing in it with that exception. There is the brake eylimlcr, a mere >hell to reeeive the plunger, the plunger turned, and the packing­just a mere common leather paekiug. That is the only leather packing we have on the whole bmke. The diaphrngm over the triple \'ah·e is of vnlcani~ed imliarnhber, and u~nnlly htsts about eighteen months.

188G. A good deal has been said about the fracturing of the hose pipe,;?-Yes. 1887. Is that a mattPr that eau he remedied ?-I was making a ealcnlation a short time ago, and

according to onr experience during the five years, we find it cm;t.s abont a fraction over ;;ixpeuce per week per carriage for hose pipes, or it has co~t that up to this day. I think in thi;; climate that a hose pipE' with water inside of it will last a very great deal longer than a ho::;e pipe with air in;;ide. The fractures that do take place, as has been shown in evidence already, have taken place mostly from the fact that the department h[!tl to avail it~elf of whatever there happened to he in stock in town. There have been no hose pipes imported o;pecinlly for the brake yet, but I presume that if the brake were lnrgely used, that it would be worth the while of the department to import ~pecially the Lest hoHe pipes that could be possibly got. As to the hose pipe business, again, there is another rcation for the breakage, that the best hose pipe in the world would not over. If the dmw springK are weak, ami the train is a heavy one, and happened to

!t jerk from engine as they ,;ometimes tlo, even with the he~t of driver~, the draw lmr comes ont to such a length that there is a pull taken on the flexible eomicction between the weakest part of the train, which inevitably must ,;epamte the hose from the nozzle, either by tearing it iu two, or slipping it off at the nozzle.

1888. Does that apply to yonr arrangement ?-It wonl<l apply to any. In the ease of the Westing­house, the whole train hat! to be brought over, the bufiers were pulled out about 14 inches iu cases, and the whole train had to be knocked off work, taken over to the repairing sheds, new springs were put in, new draw bars in places, and no doubt the couplings were very light, and a strong coupling was substituted for the weak ones ; Lut until that was done the \Vestinghou:;e train could not work with it ut all.

1889. That i~ a remedy that could be applied to any train, without tletriment to its ordinary action? -Yes, it was not the fault of the bmke at all-not, in the lmtHt. It was the fanlt of the weakness of the draw springs that they were not calculated to carry the weight that sometimes will be put on a train with a continuous brake, but it would have been inconvenient to have a great deal of loose hose pipe, enough to overcome the pull of a draw bar when they come ont from 11 inches to 14 inches as they do sometimes.

1890. Have you any remarks you would like to add-we shall he glad to henr them ?-I do not know that I have. I place the thing simply aml plainly before you. The points that I rely upon in the late tests, where I think the result has been slightly unequal, owing to ha\·ing a worse engine to begin with, and sixteen brake block,; on the train fewer than that of the competing brake, those facts are in yom· knowledge, and will be properly dealt with, no tlonbt. As far as anything else is eo!lcerned, I do not think I have any remarks to make Hhout it at all. I do not know whether it is worth wl1ile taking any notice of what l\llr. Imray sai!l about six or seven fitterti being employed when there was a leakage in a valve with one or two of the at the tests when you onlered it to be put back in a siding and the vVestingbonse to go on. A matter fact it was not tonehed by a fitter. I wa~ there the whole time aml no fitter touched it, and all rhat was doue was to take a run down the line and put cold water in-that and nothing more.

1891. \Ve hat! evidence that bore that out this morning from :fi:Ir. MeTaggart. Ho made a state­ment that the remedy was s:mply to t.ake the train buck and fill the accumulators with cold water ?-That was all, and no fitter ever touched it.

18\12. Perhaps you should have the opportunity of stating what your opinion is about the handle movement when the guard, through anxiety to efieet the work, broke the stop in the brake van. \Vhat distance would you suppose the handle had passed it,; normal and proper position ?-I went into the van immediately aflerwart!B, and I found the piece was broken off almost inn line wilh the handle, and if that were the Clll'le, it 'WOnld represent a line of 180 degrees clean through, or in reality 90 degrees beyond its proper position; it weut to almost as far baek as before. It was a bit of elder long way,:;, and all he had to do was to knoek it out, nnd it naturally broke off nearly in a straight line with the cut on the other side.

1893. The distance, yon think, would he something between 45 degrees and 90 degrees ?-Yes, I should consider it fully 70 degrees at any rate,

John Woods, contiaued,

5th Feb. 1888.

John Woods, r.ontinued,

til Ifeb, 1883,

52

1894. Is there any other point ?-I do not remember any at the present moment, but if there is any point that strikes you that you would like an explanation upon, I shall be very happy to gh·e it. In reference to the trials, of eomse I have nothing further to Slt)'.

1R95. By 1'"lr. Campbell (tltrouglt the Clwirman).-By the turning of the carriage hand brake will that carriage be cut off from the rest of the train, so that the brakes might be applied on the rest of the train but not applied on that carriage ?-No, certainly not.

189G. By the Board.-! presume every carriage in front of that would be braked ?-No, it would only affect this one.

1897. In turning this cock, all the carriages on the opposite side from this engine would Le l:lhut off?-Yes.

1898. But all between it and the engine would still be in full operation?-Yes. 18D9. By il:fr. Campbell (through tlte Cltairman).-How is the leather packing in the cylinder held

down in its place ?-In the ordinary way; there is not a spring in it. 1900. Is there a separate plate to hold the leather ?-No. HlUl. How long will the diaphragms last ?-I am told aLont eighteen months. They are worth

about a penny or twopence each. l!J02. All the carriages forming the ·woods brake train lately running on the Brighton line have

new draw-bar springs pnt in ?-I do not know very htely, because the whole of the rolling stock on the Hobson's Bay line was in a very flimsy condition and not fit for a proper brake, and it is very likely they have.

1903. Is it possible that each draw bar could come out from eleven to fourteen inches ?-I do not sa.y they did.

Hl04. Did you mean that each might come out haJf that ?-No, I said that the buffers-that the draw bars-that there were some of the draw bars, I was informed, were out from eleven to fourteen inches.

Tlu; witness withdrew.

Adjattnwd to to-morrow at ltalj~past Nine o'clock.

TUESDAY, GTn I<'EBRUARY 1883.

Present:

W. Trrow, Esq., in the Chair;

H. Horniblow, Esq., I W. E. Batchelor, Esq.

HoLert B. CampLell further examined.

R. n. campben, 1905. B,ij tlte Bom·d.-Both Mr. Imray and yourself referred to No. 61 carriage having been place!l 6th Feb. 1883. upon the trial train of the Woods Lrake on the last day-have you any objection to raise to that carriage ?

-We were not informed for what purpose it was put there, and we knew that the brake could be applied from its interior, and for that reason objected to it.

1006. Have you any reason to suppose it was applied in that way ?-My attention was fully taken up in other directions.

1907. There was no objccrion made by the Board to your placing any one in the carriage on behalf of the ·w estinghouse company ?-\Ve never attempted it.

1 DOS. I ask you theu, was there any objection raised to the Westinghouse people making use of that carriage if they chose ?-There was no objection raised, lmt for my,;clf I presumed that the objections raised to the being in the break vans npplied also to this carriage, it being a similar carriage, and the brake was appli.c,<thle from the interior in the same manner as from the interior of the brake van.

1909. You were not prohibited in any way from riding in this carriage ?-No. 1910. Had you any absolute facts before you that would lead yon to suspect that the brake was

used ?-As I said, my attention was otherwise engaged, and I had not an opportunity of keeping an eye on this vehicle while the trials were being made.

1911. By ./Jfr. Woods (tltrouglt tlte Chairman).-Were you aware that the carriage was locked up with no one in it by the order of the Board ?-I was not aware of any such fact.

1912. And it was only intended to be used on the back journey in ordcr'to show the action of the valve ?-I wns not nware of thnt.

1tfr. ft'oods (to the Board).-! beg to inform you that such was the case, that no one travelled in the vnu, and that it was only on returning from the secon<l trip that wc discovered that the lever had been tampered with hy some one. I do not know who did it, and having no proof to offer, I forbear making any stntcmcnt; but that the lever had Leen tampered with there was no douLt, mHl that it was tampered with by any of our men was very unlikely.

The witness withdrew.

John \Voods further examined.

JohnWoo<ls, 1913. By tl1e Board.-The altemtion which wacl noticed in No. 61 carriage-was that repaired, and 6th ~'eb. 1888. was the cnrriage made available again for applying the Lmkc previous to the ending of the trials ?-No.

1914. The carriage wns out of gear then during the whole of the trials of the train ?-So far as I know, we discovered it to be out of gear immediately after the completion of the second trial.

1915. If you remember, the last test made with the Woods brake in the l\Ielbonrne yard, the brake did not go on the trnin ?-That was on the rear van.

1916. Can yon sny why?-Yes, the reason is that the engine standing with the accumulator filled and at full pressure, equal to the pressure in the pumps, the release was not and could uot be 80 rapid as though the accumulator had been shut off from the line of pipes in the carriages. The Westing house brake has an apparatus fitted whereby they can close the air reservoir under the engine against the line of air

53

pipes in the carriages. There is no such provision in my brake, and were it possible to cut that connection off at the same time, or automatically, or with the opening of the valve by t,he guard in the rear van, the application of the brake woulu be just a;; instantaneous as it is from the foot plate of the engine. There would be no difficulty in placing the valve in such a position as to achieve that purpose, but I do not think that in the regular working of the brake such a. valve is at all necessary. It might be for the test trial for a special purpose.

1917. To take a case that might easily happen any day-supposing that the guard in the rear van saw some danger ahead and wished to apply the hmke, he would open the valve in his van, and unless the engine-driver happened to observe the falling of pressnro on the gauge, he would not know that the guard wished to apply the brake ?-I can only say that as a matter of practice that has been tried again and again, and even in the trials from the carriage made by yourself. On a former occasion, when you were here, it was discovered that a train going at from thirty-five to forty miles an hour was pulled up without the knowledge of the engine-driver in times varying fl'om 14 to 19 seconds. In that case, when the engine is in motion, it is invariably felt on the foot plate, and he has his instructions always the moment he either feels any check on the foot plate, or sees the indicator falling, and he shuts off steam and also applies his brake. In the case of the standing test he did neither. But there is another reason, and, if the Board would like to have it done over again, it can be tried at any train standing at the station. I was speaking to the guard afterwards about it, and I think he said that the handle was put on and off rapidly.

1918. It was not done so, I applied the handle in the van myself on all occasions; three different ways. On the first occasion it was put on and off, on the second occasion it was allowed to remain on a little longer, on the third occasion I should think it remained on fully a minute ?-Then that is where I was mistaken. In practice it is always found there has never been a single instance of fnilure. Every so-called failure that has happened, namely, to call into action the automatic properties of the brake in each case, as the evidence has gone here to show, the train has been pulled up. Whenever a pipe has been burst in any part of the train, the truin has been pulled up, and this is one of the most imperative conditions of the Board of Trade; therefore I cannot cull it a failnre that whenever anything happens to the brake to render it unworkable to the driver, at the first indication the train should be pulled up, which is done.

19lfl. You said it is quite possible to add an appliance which will cut off the engine reservoir. What apparatus could you suggest which would work it automatically ?-I think a simple mushroom valve, that would allow the free pressure of the water towards the train, !Jut not allow it to go back, and the moment the pressure was taken off the pipe that the pressnre in the accumulator would be on the valve, but against the pipe. I have not quite thought it out, but I have not the slightest <loubt that an arrangement of that sort could be very easily made. But I think that it would be attended with difficulties in another way, the great difficulty being that it would shut the driver off from any knowledge, except through the jerk of the train, that the brake had been applied by the guard, and in that case it might have the effect of breaking the draw bars aml cutting the train in two.

1920. By Mr. Campbell (tltrougli the Chairman).-In what way was carriage No. Gl cut off?-The pin was taken out of the end of the valve lever. There is a lever that just simply opens the valve.

1921. In what way would that affect the ~~ction of the brake ?-It could not go on fLt all. 1922. By the Board.-The carriage was still available as nn ordinary carriage ?-Yes. 192::1. But it could not be applied from that?-Yes. Hl24. B,1J i}fr. Campbell (through the Chairman).-During these trials on the fourth day with the

Woods brake, the brake was applied ?-No donbt. 1925. Was that pin fixed afterwards it was fixed after the trial;;.

The witness withdrew.

Robert B. Campbell further examined. 1926. B,'l the Board.-In the Melbourne yard trial, No. 5, 31st Jannary, in applying the brake from

the hind van, did you cut off the engine re;;ervoit· ?-According to instrnctions, I cut off the engine naturally. 192i. Is it a valve on the engine or a valve on a carriage ?-There is no special valve to do this,

but by shutting the cock on the rear van you thereby enclose the air in the train, which will only flow out from any exit made ; if in the rear of the train, it will flow ont from that aperture,

192H. Are you speaking of the front or rear van ?-The rear van. 1921). I want to know whether the engine reservoir was cut off-was it cut off at the engine or the

ft•ont van ?-At the front van. 1930. By the cock which is attached to the front van ?-According to instructions. 1931. That of course rendered the Westinghouse train under circumstances totally different from the

Woods train. The Woods train was not cut off, and had it been cut off the action would have been seen in the two trains in precisely the same way ?-I only did as I was told in that test, to suit the gentlemen of the Board.

1932. Would the action have been slower by not cutting the engine reservoir off ?-Not a second. It would hare wasted the air in the reservoir, but not made it a second slower.

193::1. It would have had to exhaust some of the pressure, or the whole, in the engine reservoir?­The exhaustion of one pound would affect the brakes at the pressure we used on that occasion.

1934. B,lf 1lfr. Woods (througlt the Chairman).-Do you remember that yon and I agreed to shut off the engine in the rear brake trials the moment the signal was given?-Yes.

1935. Was not that for the same purpose ?-'ro ;;ave the water in the accumulator in your case, the air in mine, but not as n matter of applying the brake. The brake would have gone on whether the air was saved or not, and there was no neccs::~ity for losing either the water or the air.

Tlte witness withdreu·.

Jeremiah Reilly examined. 1930. By tlte Board.-WllfLt are you ?-Engine-driver. 1937. Where have you been a driver ?-On the :Midland line before I came here, 1938. But where here ?-On the Main line, Sandhurst.

John Woods, continued,

6th lfeb. 1883.

R. B. CsmpbeU, 6th Feb. 1683,

Jeremlah Rellly tltll ~'eb. 1883,

Jeremiah llcllly, contintl.l!d,

6th Feb. 1883.

1939, Goods or passenger trains ?-Both. 1940. Do you remember, on any occasion, picking up some carriages at Kyueton with the Woods

brake apparatus on, in which the water was frozen?-Yes. 1941. How many carriages were there ?-One.

certain. 1942. "\Vas it a second or third class carriage ?-I think it was a second class ; I could not say for

1943. Did you take it on with you ?-Yes. 1944. And bring it to Melbourne ?-Yes. 1945. Were you able to apply the brake at all during the journey ?-I kept applying the brake, and

before I got to Riddell's Creek it got all right. 1946. How did you find out it had ice in it ?-I only judged that by the cold morning; I could not

prove it. I did not see the ice, but it would not work. l946.A. Are you sure it had anything in it-ice or water ?-I think, to the best of my knowledge, that

it must have been frozen. It had been standing there two or three days, and it was very cold weather. 1947. The reservoir might have been empty ?-It might, bnt I could not get a passage through it. 1948. The effect would have been the same if the reservoir had been empty, you could not have got

the brake on ?-The brake was off. 1949. You could not have worked the brake if there had not been water in the reservoir ?­

Decidedly not. 1950. So there appears to be a doubt as to whether it was really out of order by freezing ?-That is

just my opinion ; because before I arrived at Riddell's Creek the brake worked the ~amc as the others. I put it on, and I kept putting the water on and off, and at last it went through.

1951. Did you see any pieces of ice about the thing ?-No. 1952. "\V ere the water colnmns frozen at "\Voodend ?-The water crane was frozen that same morning. 195;3. Did you get any water through it?-Yes; we lost a little time in getting the water on, but

we got the water on in a few minutes. 1954. By ~ll'lr. Campbell (through t/1e Cltairman).-In what manner did you get the water on at

the water crane ?-Opened the valve a time or two and the water broke through. I 955. This sccoml-class carriage, was it put in the front or the rear of the train ?-The front. 1956. And yon could not get 1t passage through it ?-No. 1957. So you could not force water into the carriage~ at the rear of it?-No. 1958. So the brake could not be worked from Kyneton till you did get a passage throngh it ?-Yes,

I got a passage through it when I arrived at Riddell's Creek. 1959. How many stations did you go through to there ?-Fonr, Carlsruhc and Woodend, Macedon,

and Gisborne. I put on the hand brake. 1960. B'l/ the Board.-Have you ever known of a similar case ?-No, never. Hl61. How long is that since ?-It was in the winter season, last winter. 1962. By Mr. Campbell (through tlte Chairman).-Hnve you had to pick up n carriage in a similar

position before ?-Yes; lmt I never found one defective before in that way. 1963. By the Board.-Can you say whether the la~t winter was unmnally scvcre?-Well, it had

been very cold. This was on n :.Monday, and this carriage was standing all Saturday ami Sunday, and Sunday night, and it was very cold at Kyncton ; in fact, it was cold weather at the time, or the water crane wonld not have been frozen.

1964. Is it usual in the winter for the water emnes to be frozen?-Very seldom. That is the only time that I found the water any way frozen up last winter.

1965. Have you ever driven No. GO engine at any time?-No, not since the brake was put on. 1966. Ha Ye you had a long experience with the Wood~ brake ?-Close on three year;;. 1967. Has it ever hauled you up on the road ?-On two occasions, and tlmt was merely with the

]oose pipes. One came off and one hurst-and that was a carriage truck that had been standiug at the siding for a long time. The pipe was eut, worn off.

1968. Have you been running on the :Main line with it chiefly ?-I have been on the Main line twenty years.

19G9. How do you operate the brake when you are coming into stations, do you use the hand brake at all?-Yes.

1970. Which do you put on first ?-I generully put on the train brake. 1971. And the hand brake afterwards ?-Yes, just to bring her up to a dead stand if she is likely to

go by. 1972. Do you find that you run by frequently ?-No, very seldom. 1973. Do yon find that yon stop short frequently ?-That jnst. depends upon the regulating and the

weight of the train and the speed. I generally manage tl1at to the best of my knowledge. 1974. Have you any difl:lculty to stop at the proper platform ?-I can form a gcot! idea of the

inclines and the speed. Hl75. Do you experience mueh difficulty in working the brake so as to sbp at the platforms ?-Not

the slightest. · 1976. Do you find that your consumptic.n of fuel has mnch increased by the use of the brake?-No,

that is a very small item. 1977. Or water ?-A little more water but nothing to speak of; I can run fi·om line to line the same

as I could before. 1978. By ~ll'lr. Woods (tltrouglt the Chairman).-You have been driving en the SandhUI'st line twenty

years r-Y CS.

1979. You know the Chewton bnnk ?-Very well. 1980. It is a bunk of ab:mt 1 in 50, four miles long?-Yes. 1981. Recently there has been a station erected in Chewton about half way down the bank ?-Yes. 1982. Are you stopping at that station now ?-Yes. 1983. Could you stop at tht1.t station before you ht1.d the brake ?-No, decidedly not. We used to

run into Castlemnine,

55

1984. Did von occasionally run through Castlemaine before you had the continuous brake ?-There Jcremmh Relll.r, J cofttinued.

have been cases. 6th l!'cb. 1883.

1985. Have you done so since ?-I have gone by the station since but not to any extent, lmt we have had trains go by half a mile.

1H86. Do you find any difficulty in releasing the brnke ?-Decidedly not. 1987. It is instautaneolls ?-Yes.

1'/u; witness withd1·ew.

Solomon Mirls examined.

1988. By tlw Eom·d.-Wlmt are you ?-Locomotive Superintendent of the Victorian Railways. 1989. Can you give the Board the number of carriages fitted with Woods brake?-Y cs. 1990. Will you give the total mnnber of passenger vehicles ?-There are 112 carriages of the

ordinary type, fourteen American carriage;;, and four brake vans. 1991. Are those vehicles fitted with brakes and brake eylimlcrs complete ?-Yes, all complete. 1992. Then what is the number of vehicles fitted with the onlinary pipe communication ?-104

horse boxes, carriage trucks, mail vans, &c. 1993. And how many engines arc fittc(l up with the Woods brake ?-!3 engine;;. 19 arc fitted with

the brake on the engine wheels, 24 with the ordinary screw brake on tender .. and some with steam brake on engine wheels and with appliances for working the continuous train brake ; total, 43 engines.

199±. Can you give the Board auy idea of the cost of fitting up those vehicles and engines?­Approximately the total expenditure has been £7,868.

H.i95. Is that for everything ?-For everything. I estimate that taking it from the various contracts. 1996. \Vill you submit the statement in detail ?-This is as near as I eau make it-[ltancling in a

return]. There were several contracts, and some gear made by ourselves ; the cost of fitting per vehicle is added to the contractor's rates.

1997. Can you gh·c the Board any idea of the cost of maintenance since those appliances were fitted ?-I can give you last year's, the year beginning January 1882, for the whole of the Victorian Railways, cxcln,;ive of the South Suburban lines.

1998. You would have to state the number of vehicles and engines thntitapplics to ?-It applies to the whole of that list minus one train on the suburban line.

HJ9!), 'Vonhl it be minus ten carriages and several engines?-Yes, ten carriages and six engines. You see the engines that are running on the ;;nburhau lines arc with non-brake vans the same as the W estinghou~c brake. This is simply the cost of the hydraulic brake train on the Victorian lines exclusi vc of the \V oods and W estinghou~e brakes on the South Suburban lines.

2000. If you give the number of engines we can under·staml what stock it really applies to ?-It excludes six engines and ten carriages employed on the South Snbnrban lines.

2001. What is the coc>t of maintenance for last year ·?-The cost of material and articles nseJ. is in return here furnished by the accountant.

2002. Does that include labor ?-No, the labor is separate. It inclmlcs brake blocks, valve leathers, hose pipe;, eonneetions and maintenance of \Voods bmke from January 1st to December 31st 1882, £116 9s. lid.; that is as furni~hcd by the accountant.

;3003. That is for the whole of the material ?-Yes. 2111).1. Hns the accountant signed it?-Y cs-[Aanding in tlte stm:ement]. 2005. Then wages ?-Wagei'l amount to £:217 10s. 3d. for· the same period, the year 1882; that is

furnished by the accountant aiso-[handin!J in a 'lvritten statement]. 2006. Now can you give an idea of how long this stock which is provided for in those two accounts

ha~ been running ?-They commenced to rlln about five years ago. 2007. And the average period which they have all been running ?-I could not give that exactly. 2001:1. Not cxaetly-coulll you give some idea ?-I think the average would be about half. 200V. Two years ami a half?-Y e::l. 2010. For the whole stock does that apply to ?-Yes; there is the contract of Wright and

Edwards, February 1879, they made twenty sets, and they also made twenty sets in June 1879 ; the depart­ment made some sets; al.~o Messrci. Howard mul Cook made 40 sets; bnt I should think the average would be two years and a half.

2011. After referring to those papers yon think it is now four years ago since Wright and Edwards did this work-in February 1i:I7B-wonld you now say two years and n half is the average ?-I think so­two years and a half to three years. I should thiuk three years would be nearer the average of the total.

::!012. Then I suppose iu that time the apparatus must have fairly come under full maintenance co;;t; it could not be considered new. Y on understand what 1 mean ?-Y cs.

2U1iJ. The newness and feeshnes,; of the appaeatns must hav~ worn out in time, and it must have now come under full maintenance wear ; is that your opinion?-Y cs.

201+. So that we might take this cost as a fair representation of what it will cost at any subsequent yem· ?-I think so. You might add a little for age, a small percentage for general depreciation, for subsequent years.

2015. Has the nddition of the Woods brake to the cal'l'iages and engines entailed much more labor on the department for maintenance ?-Not beyond the fitter employed in the Spencer street yard and an assistant occasionallY.

2010. Ant! they put on brake blocks and so on ?-Yes, brake blocks, hose pipes, leathers, and whatever is required.

2017. Does this man, so far as you know, look at axle boxes and wheels, and generally overhaul the carriages, or does he confine himself to the brake apparatus '?-He confines himself, I think, entirely to the brake apparatus. The whole of his time is charged in that return supplied by d10 accountant.

2018. B11 Jlfr. Campbell (tltrou,qlt tlte Clwirnwn).-Wlmt arc the salaries of the fitter in the Mcl­homne ya.rd and hi,; assistant ?-The fitter get:; I Os. a d<ty, aml the assistant got 3s. Gd. at the be<rinnitw of the year, 4;;. 6d. iu the middle of the year, anJ recently 515. a day. "' "'

Solomon Mlrt•, Glb. }'cb. 1883.

Solomon lllltls, ctmtinued,

6tb Feb. 1883,

56

2019. Have those two men been employed throughout the year on the brake ?-I believe they have for the whole of the year; the time is charged all the year.

2020. Have there been any expenses incnrred on the running sheet for mending a burst gauge?­That is the return of the carriage rolling stock, not locomotives.

2021. By the Board.-Do those two retnrns supplied by the accountant refer to carriages alone?­Carriages and rolling stock, excepting locomotives.

2022. Can you furnish a return showing the cost of repairs to locomotives ?-I have not got it with me.

2023. Can you furnish it ?-I will emleavor to do so; I will have to go to the running sheets for those particulars. I can give you the locomotives on the Southern lines as regards tl~e brake blocks.

202±. We should like to have it on the whole ?-I will ask the accountant to work it out from the running shml books.

2025. By jJfr. Campbell (tltrouglt tlte Chairman).-Does this retnrn for salaries paid include that of fitters employed at Williamstown in the repairing of the brakes and of carriages ?-No ; the question is scarcely comprehensible. The repairers to the carriages at Williamstown generally overhaul the carriages. A carriage comes into the shop at Williamstown for general repairs, and is lifted off its wheels, and the brake gear is taken down.

2026. By the Boat·d.-Do those returns show the cost of running repairs only, or does it include overhauls to carriages ?-Running repairs only on the road ; the carriage gets a general overhaul.

2027. If the brakes are out of repair, you would repair them at Williamstown ?-Yes, but a carriage is never sent to "\Villiamstown out of running to repair the brake alone.

2028. That is the usual practice in any part of the world-that the carriage is dealt with when it is sent in wherever it requires repairs?-Yes.

2029. Y on do not keep a separate account of brake repairs at Williamstown and what is done for brakes alone at vVilliamstown ?-Not a separate account, hut it could be extracted if necessary.

2030. It would be a laborious matter to get ?-Yes. 2031. Have you found, in your experience with this brake npparatus, that there is any particular

weak part about it which gives more trouble than any other, such as the triple valve here ?-Recently they have given scarcely any trouble at all. Originally they were a little troublesome with dirt, but now it is improved, that valve is very good.

2032. Or the double feather valves ?-No, that gives no trouble whatever. 2033. vVith regard to hose pipes, we have it in evidence that a good many of them fail; have you

been able to get a special hose pipe for tbe work ?-The department experienced a deal of trouble With the hose pipes through having to take inferior quality from contractors, hut some that had been obtained from the New York Indiarubber Company give heher satisfaction. Having to take anything from the contractors in Melbourne, the quality is not so good as it should he ; we are getting a better quality of material now.

203±. :From New York ?-From New York. 2035. Have you ever known of any carriages becoming unusable through the freezing of water in

the pipes in any of the Woods brakes at Kyneton or Woodend ?-No; there never has been any freezing that I am aware of.

2036. Have you known of the water cocks at those places freezing ?-No, they never freeze; they did about twenty years ago, one of them. One of the water cranes froze at W oodend about twenty years ago, but never since.

2037. There was no freezing last year ?-There has been none for the last eighteen ot· twenty years.

2038. I presume it might have occurred without your knowing it ?-I scarcely think so. 2039. However, your attention has never been drawn to the statement that fmzen water had

rendered those carriages unusable as far as the hrake8 are concerned ?-No. 2040. Do you remember the reservoir bursting on No. GO engine ?-That is last month, I think. 2041. Alder was the driver?-Yes. 20±2. "\Vhat was that caused through ?-It was not working the brake train, be was working the

engine ; it was caused through a defective casting I believe, and he had 145 lbs. pressure in it at the time. 2043. Was he working a goods or a passenger train ?-I think he was working a mixed train, on

the North-Eastern line. There was no train brake on. 20±4. The receivers are of east iron are they ?-The locomotive accumulators are cast iron, some of

them. 2045. And you say this casting was defective ?-It was defective and thin in the moulding, so the

foreman told me; I did not see it broken myself. 2046. Is that. the only case you are aware of in which the reservoir has failed ?-That is the only

case to my knowledge. 2047. Have the wrought·iron pipes under the carriages failed through bursting ?-I do not know of

any. 2048. By Mr. Campbell (tltrough the Chairman).-Did the reservoir burst or was it ruptured,

struck by some outside obstruction ?-No, it burst I believe. 20±9. By tlte Board.-You are of opinion that simply burst from a defective casting and high

pressure ? -Yes. 2050. Can you tell the Board whether the use of the Woods brake on engines and trains causes

much increase in the consumption of fuel ?-I am not aware that it does. I cannot see how it can. I am not aware of any.

2051. You have no information which would induce you to think so ?-No. 2052. Have you made any estimate of the increased consumption of water ?-No. On the long

journeys the pump can be worked with the engine gravitated down the inclines, therefore no fuel would be used there for the engine or the pump.

2053. By i~fr. Woods (tltrouglt tlte Cltairman).-Assuming that the pressure in the reservoir wns say 10 lbs. or l5lbs. in excess of the pressure in the hoiler, and the pump was still working, where would the water still go to ?-If working at a slow speed it would go in the boiler direct.

57

2054. And if it was working at a quick speed ?-The long stroke of the pump would send it into the train at a higher pressure than the boiler could receive it.

2055. How do you explain that ?-It is the long stroke of the pump and the quick travel, it goes quicker than it can go into the boiler.

2056. There is no stop valve or cock or self-acting arrangement which cuts it of! from the boiler?­No, there were some safety valves on the accumulators but we took them off.

2057. Those were open to the atmosphere ?-Yes. 2058. I presume no water can get into the boiler unless it passes through the accumulators, unless

the pressure is in excess of the boiler pressure ?-They can work the other side by the injector. 2059. But confining ourselves to the pump which feeds the accumulator ?-It goes through the

accumulator into the boiler, as at present arranged. 2060. By Mr. Campbetl (through the Chairman).-You said just now that a greater pressure can

be got in the brake pipe than the boiler ?-At high speeds. 2061. Is there any limit to that pressure ?-Well, the driver can do what he likes; he can shut off

the feed if he likes. 2062. But if he does not, would the pressure still rise ?-I think not; the driver would see to that,

he has an indicator and pressure gauge. 2063. By the Board.-Just in the same way as you give him the means of knowing the pressure in

the boiler?-Yes. 2064. By j}fr. Campbell (througlt the Cltairman).-But he has no safety valve to regulate the

pressure in the brake ?-The pressure will gain on the boiler unless going at a very high speed. 2065. Do the indicating dials or handles of the gauges ever go round as far as they can go, 200 lbs.

on the square inch ?-No, never. 2066. By the Boarrl.-If they did go round to any excessive pressure ?-It would skid all the

wheels ; I am sure he could not get up such a pressure. 2067. If they did go round, what would be the result ?-Skid all the wheels in the train, or burst

the pipes. 2068. That would be the limit of injury done?-Yes. 2069. But you have not known any case of bursting the pipes, I think you said ?-No, except the

ordinary hose coupling. 2070. I think you attended the trials the other day ?-Yes. 2071. Not in an official capacity ?-No, I simply attended to arrange the trafiic, and to see the

ground marke(l out, and to get the electrical arrangements perfected for you. 2072. Did you take any active measures in conducting the trials on those occasions ?-None

whatever, excepting one or two at your request, to order the driver to move somewhere, and to arrange the running-the trafiie part of the businese.

2073. Bnt none that could bear in any way on the result of the trials ?-None whatever. I never went near the engine, or bad anything to say to any of the drivers, either at the trials or previous to the trials.

2074. HnYe you nny remarks that you would like to make as to the trials in any way ?-No, I do not wish to have anything to say on the subject at all. As fnr ns it lay in my power I gave every facility to both parties ; I did everything I was ever asked to do.

2075. Is there any other statement you would like to make ?-There is the train mileage run. 2076. With the Woods brake ?-With all the brakes. The train mileage run with trains fitted

with Woods continuous brake from the lst January to 31st December 1882, exclusive of the South Suburban lines, is 488,533 miles-purely brake trains. There is the number of the engines and the mileage given by the accountant.

2077. Brake train miles ?-Yes. 2078. The train mileage fitted with the Westinghouse brake on the South Suburban lines ?-From

15th September to 31st December 1882 is 8,665 miles. The engines are also given separate. The train miles run by the \Voods brake on the South Suburban lines from 15th September to 31st December are 8,924 miles. There is the num1Jer of the engines given-[ handing in a return]. There is a small addition about the stores that have been used on the Southern lines. This is the circular that I issued to the drivers respecting the brakes, It is somewhat similar to the Board of Trade regulations on the English railways respecting reporting failures, and so on. It wns issued on two different dates.

2079. This is dated 29th of December 1881 ?-It was subsequently re-issued to include the South Suburban lines-[handing in tlte sarn.e]. You asked for some particulars respecting the classes of the engines-a descriptive account of the engines used in the brake trials-this is it-[handing in the s11;me ]. The only thing I nm doubtful about is the weight of No. 40. According to the maker ~he is 39·4 ton:>, and she has had some addition made to her such as a continuous Lrnke and some tools.

2080. J?or the information of yonrsolf and also the representatives of the two companies, I will tell you whnt we have done with No. 40. \-Ve found it impos:sible to weigh her exactly by the scales, the driving wheel seems to hnve so mueh weight 011 it that the scale~ would not show what the absolute weight was ; hut without knowing that you had thi~ return from the makers, I referred to my own experience with a similar engine. We have had four in South Australia ; and I reckon that the Woods brake nnd that engine, when iu full working trim, will weigh 37 tons 18 cwt. You carry 300 gallons more of water than we do, so that, after consultation with my colleague;:;, we decided to call No. 40 H9 tons in working trim. I find now that the weights given by the maker..; arc iu excess of that ?-And tlterc arc additions since then, the brake fittillgs aml extra fittings-aLont half a ton more, I should think.

2081. W o were aware that the absolute weight, in working order, might be more than 39 tons, but then we had to take into consideration the re;lnetion of weight through not having full tanks on the day of the trial; and after discussing the question we agreed that it sh.ould be taken as 39 tons, mul I do not think we are far out of the truth ?-Very well. I should like to correct the accountant's return. To make sure, I telegraphed to my nmning forernnn at Sandhmst in relation to the Main line brake trains, to know if any repairs were done at Sandhurst, and I have just received n telegraphic reply. lie says, "Your telegram. The total time fitters were engaged repairing coutinuous brake, including engine connections for same for

BRAKES BoARD, H

Solomon Mirls, ...,.ru,...a,

5th Feb. 1883.

58

Solom!>llMfrlB, 1882, was 55 hours. During the same period, four hose bags and four small retention or accumulator valves 111~~. were supplied," That must be added to the accountant's rcturn-[lwnding in the same].

2082. Will you add that and scml it in ?-Yes, and that will make it absolutely complete. 20R3. NOW about the driver of the vV estinghonse engine 011 the brake trials, has he been long in the

service--No. 108 engine ?-He is an old driver in the Government service, awl a very careful and good man too.

2084. Has he had much experience with the Westinghouse brake engine ?-He has had it all the time, I think ; there might lmve been a few days' exceptions. It was my order for him to be kept on it.

2085. Will that experience extend over some months ?-Yes. 2086. He has not worked the carriages I believe ?-No, he had no carriages to work, they were

employed on the Southern lines. 2087. You are satisfied, however, that he was as good a man as you could have obtained ?-He is

one of the best men on the railway as engine-driver-attentive, steady, and well acquainted with his duties. 2088. Have you any ot.her document there that we ask for ?-I think that is all you asked for. 2089. By 111r. Campbell (through the Cliairman).-Abont this telegram from Sandhnrst, the time

given there refers to the time spent on engines and carriages ?-Y.es-[hm1ding the same to .Mr. Campbell]. It was telegraphed last night ; I thought the :tccouutaut might have OYerlookcd the Sandhurst shed.

2090. But as no rctum has been given for the cost of maintenance for engines, running shed expenses, and i'nch like for the work in vVilliamstowu, can those CXJ1Cnses from Sandhurst be added to the Williamstown ;;beds already given in as being the complete return?-W c will get the accountant to separate the engir1cs from the carriages at Sandhmst and so make the retnrns complete.

2091. There lms no return been handed in yet for the engines ?-No. 2092. By tlte Board.-vVc should like what work was done in the sheds to the running gear, com­

plete ?-'fhc only thing I would call particular attention to is, that there are engines fitted with the Woods brake that are not on brake trains. I do not sec how it will afFect the matter. For instance, the brake engines running on the Southern lines, the vVestinghouse and the \Voods, are employed on trains not braked, so that would be in the Melbonrne sheds.

2U93. If we were going to reduce to cost per train mile then we should be at fault, but as we might reduce it to cost per engine, or per earringe, or per vehicle fittcll, it will not affect the question in any way? -Independent of milenge ?

2094. Y cs. If we could get the cost of work clone to engines in the }felbourne shed here it would make the return complete, probably for numing expenses ?-But it would not bear comparison with the train mileage of the continuous bmkes.

2095. Hy J1fr. 1-Voods (through tlw Chairman).-Have you any account of the failures of the two brakes that have taken pbce, if any, on the South Submban lines ?-Yes, I have a few here.

2096. I a~:~ked this quez;tion, because in the evitlcnee adduced by the vVestingbouse company on that point, the evitlence was unanimous in stating Jlretty well that there have been nothing at all of the sort ?­That is the rcturn-[lwnding in the same]. That return was kept in conformity with the previous circular.

2097. Is that the whole ?-Yes. 2098. By the Board.-They seem to be matters of ordinary failure ?-Yes. 2099. I do not think there is anything in that that proves the failure of the W estinghouse brake ?

-No; they arc only trivial things. 2100. Have you got any similar return of failures of the 'Voods brake ?-I have for the Victorian

Railways, but not for the South Suburban line separately. There has been no failure of the Woods brake on the South Suburban line that I am aware of except very trivial things.

2101. Will you kindly hand in a return of the failmes of the Victorian Railways for the Woods brake as you did the other, and we will consider them?-Y cs. [ Tlte witness did so.]

2102. \V c have heard from different sources that when the Westinghouse brake was applied on the South Subnrban lines the draw bars were drawn out and the buffers used in a peculiar way; would you a~sert that that was any fault of the brake, or was it merely the rc~nlt. of the in:t\laptability of the buffing gear and draw-bar gear to sustain the strain of the brake ?-I had to put new buffing springs in the carriages aml put greater tension on them, so as to allow the continuons brake to have more strain on the draw bars. It was causctl partly through the weakness or loss of camber in the springs, and also the strength and strains of the brake in buffing and pulling.

2103. You have removed all difficulty by altering that ?-I re-tempered the buffing springs, and put them in greater tension, but they are still defective. 'fhe brake was more severe on the draw bars than the hydraulic brake; in fact, I have given orders to pnt stops in those every tlay on both trains so as to allow the draw bars to pnll out only three inches.

2104. Did you ever give any limit to the 'Vcstinghonse people as to what power they were to work their brake at on account of straining crank pins?-Y cs, I have; only two tons on a wheel in ordinary work.

2105. 'fwo tons of brake blocks ?-Yes. 2106. What were you afraid of ?-I was frightened of the light condition of the rods and pipes.

The outside rods were not very strong in some of the earlier engines, and the crank pins not very stout, and I think two tons is plenty for ordinary work in a locomotive.

2107. By .1"tlr. Campbell (through the C!wirrnan).-Arc the buffing springs altered in both the Woods and 'Vestinghouse trnins ?-Yes, I think I re-tempered them both.

2108. Ha Ye you noticed any uunsnal pulling out of the draw bars lately ?-I saw the draw bars pulled 011t to an alarming extent at those trials, so that I have ordered stop~ at three inches.

2!09. In the ordinary line~ ?-I htwe seen DOme in the ortlinnry running. 2110. Was that at first ?·-Yes. 2111. But lately ?-Not lately.

Tile witness witltdrew.

Adjourned.

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LISrr OF APPENDICES.

A. Programme of Trials at 'Verribee. B. Consultation with Representatives of both Brake Companies. C. Programme submitted by Agents of the 'vVestinghouse Company. D. Programme of Trials at Werribee and Riddell's Creek. E. Table of Speeds over measured tenth of mile.

G. Tables of Di:ltances between Drake Applications and Points of Rest. F.} R. I. Leading Particulars of T"ocomoti ves used for Trials.

APl)ENDIX A.

VICTORIAN RAILWAY8.

STOP TESTS WITH 'VOODs AuTmiATIC l:IYilRAULlC AND 'VESTINGHOUS.E AUTOMATIC CONTINUOUS AIR BRAKES

Proyrammc.

Each train to consist of eight carriages and two vans, the carriages and vans to be of similar description in each bra.k. train, or may be weighed, and one dynograph car not braked.

The engines are to be approximately similar in cbs.s, weight, number of wheels braked, also weight of fuel and water. 'fhe ground to be staked out as may be directed, the levels carefnlly taken, and section plotted; the particulars to be

furniHhed to the companies. }~ach brake to be tried at the same time, if possible, and under the like circumstances of weather, wind, state of rails, &c. The following experiments to be tried at the two speeds of 4Cimiles and 60 miles per hour respectively :­

lst.-Continuous brake applied by driver. 2nd.-Continuous brake applied by rf!ar guard on signal; driver to shut off steam instantly, but not to touch tender

brake. 3rd.-Engine to be detached from train by slip coupling with steam full on.

On no account are the brakes to be applied before the signal is given, nor will the guards or drivers be allowed to touch the brake levers or handles after starting the trams until the signal is given. 'fhe order to stop will be given from the engine by hand waved on the engine.

No sand to be used in Nos. 1, 2, and 3. The number of persons on the engine during the time of trials is not to exceed the driver, fireman, and members of the

Board.

8th January 1883. S. MIRLS,

r,oco. Superintendent.

The part of the line to he used for recording speed before the application of the brakes is to be marked off into six spaces of 800 feet each by posts, carrying boards with hrge figures printed on them, and at the first and last of these posts large f!a~s are to be hoisted to make them more conspicuous. At the second of these flags the signal will be given for the brakes to be apphed, and from that point forward the line is to be mi>rlmd off into 20 spaces of 200 feet each, with posts and boards as before.

Three officers, with stop watches, are to be stationed at the pos~' next before the shutting-off point, to observe the speed of the trains. Each one is to start his stop wateh at the instant of the engine p>~Ssing hi.< post, and allow it to run until all three come together afterwards, when the three watches are to be stopped at one signal, and the difference of the readings taken. Thia difference will give the exact speed of train.

Other men are to be posted on the side of the line, to ascertain, as far as possible, where the skidding of wheels take place (if any).

APPENDIX ll.

At the meeting of the Brake Tri>tl Bo:trd on Satm<lay, 27th .January 1883, representatives of the \Vestinghou.e and 'vVoods Brake Companies attended for the purpoee of furnishing information to the Board relative to further tests which had been sug­gested by the former.

The members of the Bo11rd present were·~'vV. Thow, Esq., Locomotive Engineer, South Au~tralia, Chairman; H. Horni­blow, Esq., Locomoti\·e 8uperintendeut, Queensland; and ,V. B. Batchelor, J1sq., I"ocomotive Superintendent, 'l'asmania.

Messrs. Imray and Camp bell, representati\·es of the \Vestinghouse Bralm Company, were first introduced. The Cltairn<an.··-Mr. Imray, the letter which the Secretary for Railways received from your firm, d>tted 22nd ,January,

suggests that further te,ts be made between the brakes. I think we had better take these suggestions separately, and elicit the fullest information respecting them.

. The Cha·irman was proceedints to read the letter of the 24th instant from Messrs. Imray, Ilirsch, and Co., relative to a. tnal of the \V estinghouse brake witn No. 25 engine.

11fr. lm;-ay.-1£ you wonld kindly allow me, Mr. Chairman, we have framed our request in accordance with this programme­[p•·oduced wr•Uen do~:ument].

The Chairman.-Does this supersede the other letter? J}fl·. hnray.·~ Yes. Of course we have had the experience of the past two days to guide us, and you will find there is a very

slight addition to the previous programme. The Chnir~'an:-The first suggestion is a,q follows:-" Two stops with light engines 3.s already gone through with heavy

ones." 'vVhat nb)ectlOn have you to the hen vy engines? Jfr. lmray.-None whatever to the engines; but we have the only possible disadvantage we can have to a fair trial in this

way-that whereas we are obliged to take fLU engine-driver who JUts only been used to driving an engine, and who has never had a brake train behind him, OUr COmpetitors have an engin<Hlrivcr Used to the engine and train 'combined for n year,;,

1'he (jha!rlllan,-Isyonrwish to get tlJclight ongine caused by the desire you lmve to get engine-men who know your train?

60

JJfr. Imray.-It is caused by the wish to get a man who has had the use of the engine and train combined. Whether he comes from New South \Vales, }~ngland, or the Brighton line, makes no difference.

The Chairman.-There is such a man here, I suppose~ Jfr. lmray.-Ycs, we have HUCh a man. The Chai1·num. --\Vould you suggest that he be plnccd upon a different engine to that we have had during the trial, or would

you be content to put him upon the engine we have already had? M·r. Invray.-You :~re aware that every driver gets used to his engine; therefore he would be placed on an engine he was not

used to. Seeing that we can get the speeds out of the light engines we can get from the heavy ones, we are willing to accept the light engine of our competitors and their men, as it is the only way we can be placed on the same conditions.

The Chai1•ma11.-What engine do you suggest? .'1-Jr. hnray.-No. 25. The Chairma11.-And the name of the driver? lJf'r. Campbeli.-The man whose turn it is to come out on the day you order. The (Jhai1'1nan.-You must give two names. Jlfr. C(tmpbell.-John Tyrrel and Edward lllatthews. Let the man come whose turn it is to come out first. In these trials

there has been one cause of error in the tenders not being braked. Yesterday our tender was heavily loaded with water and coal, the driver thinking he might require to use the tender brake. In the trials with the light engine, if the brake is not used on the engine the engine is so light that it would not affect the draw·bars, and would give a frur trial to each brake.

The Chainnan.-About the fireman. Is that a question at all? Mr. Campbdl.--No. The fireman who belongs to the engine will do. The Chai1·man.-I am simply raising the question, assuming we get the engine. \:Vould you have any objection, supposing

the fireman is not the man who has been working the brake? JJf?o. Ca.mpbell. --Not at all. He simply looks to the fire, and does not touch or handle the brake. The Chairman.-I want to have the clearest understanding about these trials, so that there will be no mistake. \Ve have

not left our own colonies without a great deal of trouble, and for my part I am only too anxious to got back to attend to my own work.

1lf1·. bnracy.~·In the letter sent in we have endeavored to combine the trials as much a.'l possible. tlfr. Campbell.-\Vould there be any objection to me drivincrthe engine my~elf 1-The driver c11.n remain on the engine, but

M far as getting up speed and applying the brake is concerned, lhave done it often, and might do it again. 'l'hese are old men, and might not have the nerve to go through the trial as composedly as they ought to do.

The Chai1·rnan.-Are you not taking the best possible means of getting the men used to the engine 1 It is impossible to say what direct objections there may be to your proposal.

.Mr. Homiblo,c.--There may be an objection raised by the department. The Chairman.-There may be objections raised, not by the Board but by other people after the Board has done its work.

I do not think we should admit an element of that sort . .ilb·. Campbdl.-\Ve will take care to educate the driver to what is required. The Chairn~an.-Supposing we get the engine for you, is there any engine that will answer the same purpose for the \Voods

brake? llfr. Campbeli.-The engines on the other side are nearly all alike. 'l'here is no engine on the other side fitted with the brake;

only with the apparatus to work the brake. For that reason we wish to cut off all engine brakes. The Chai?"l1W.n.-Have you only two engines fitted with the \Vestinghouse brake? 1Jf1·. Uam~pbeli.-We have three, but the first fitted is the worst engine. Instead of 130 lbs, of steam it will only work to

90 lbs., and the engine is, generally speaking, worn out. \V e never use it. All engines on the South Suburban lines are tank engines.

The Cha·inna.n.-How many carriages are fitted with your brake? ~fr. CampiJell.--We have now fourteen carriages and two vans fitted, but we have not run more than those composing the

train used in the trial. The ChMnnan.-\Vith respect to the first question, have you anything else to suggest? JJfr, lmray.-Nothing. ;.1Jesus. Homwlmo and Ba.tdu:lor intimated, in rCJ>ly to the Chairman, that they had no further questions to ask. The Chai1'Tnan then read the second clause in the programme submitted-viz., "Four applications of the brake in rapid

succession." The Chairman.-I suppose you mean a dead stop upon each application ? ~fr. (Jarnp&ell.-In going down a grade you may require to apply a brake several times in succession without absolutely

stopping the train. You should have a storage of power at hand to make that possible. \Ve do not mean to stop the train or put on the full power of the brake at each application, but to put the bmke on at different times, and the fourth time to have power to stop the train in a reasonable distance.

The Chairman.-\Vhat speed do you suggest the train should be reduced to? \Vc should have some indication of what would be satisfactory to you .

• ~fr. Carnpbell. -The person driving the engine should he allowed to apply the brake where and as quickly as he can. It does not matter where he does it, if he vuts it on and off three tin,es, showing he has the power at command to do it.

The Chairman.-'l'hat does not g1ve any indication of the speed to be taken out of the train, He might do that, but you might say afterwards "the application of the \V oods brake was not so long in duration as the application of our brake, and therefore it is not a fair competitive test."

.Mr. Cam:pbell.-\V e take the right to llJ'PlY the brake as quickly as we can, four times in succession, and after the last application tc keep it on to stop the train. Let the Woods people do the same.

The Chai1'1nan.-Then you disregard the reduction of speed~ 1¥/r. Carnpbell.-Yes. Certainly he who stops in the shortest di&tance would show the most power at command. The Clwirnwn.-Do you wish time and distance taken? M'r. Campbell.-From the first n.pplication of the brake. The Cha'i'rman.-1'hat may be a trial of some importance, but unless it is to show a definite result of comparison between

the two brakes, it could not be of any value to us as a Bot1rd, and 1 am anxious to avoid anything that would cause a loss of time. Mr. Campbell.-It will show this. There is a certain storage of power on both brakes, and it exemplifies or illustrates that. The Cha;rman.-\Vould it not be better to stop definitely four times? .Mr. Campbell.-How far would you run with one stoppage until you began the other? The Chairrnan.-We would have to maintain speed to have a stoppage of any value. JJ{r. Campbell.-That would not be suitable to us. The Chairman.-Our commission is a very definite one, viz., to consider which of the two brakes, if either, is the most

suitable for the Victorian Railways. We have nothing to do with playing with these brakes, or to show which is the most fanciful, fantastic, or curious. \'\That we have to do is to test the brakes in a practical manner as applied to ordinary working of trains. We have not to imagine which would be the best brake under circumstances different to those which would be supposed to apply to an ordinary day's work.

}clr. Jmray.-Under ordinary circumstances a train might be coming into a station. At the distant signal the brake is applied and the speed checked. It goes into the station, and is applied again. It leaves the station, and a fresh signal may be given for it to be applied again. \Ve wish to show which has the greatest power left for the fourth application.

The Chairrnan,-To take such a Cl1se we would have to come to a stopp:tgc and get up speed again. It is a rule that, with a distant signal against a man, he requires to stop at that signal before he passes it, and then draw within it. There is one dead steppage. If the home signal is against him, he stops again .

.Mr. lmray.-1'hat is more like a check. Tlte Chairman.-The home signal may be taken off and the driver may check the speed, Then he goes into the station,

where he stops. He runs out of the station again and comes to another signal, where he may require to come to a full stop again. If we are to apply a case of this kind to actual practice, we shall certainly have to stop.

ilf1'. hnmy.-'l'his would not be suitable to us. Is it not possible to adapt the \Voods brake for such a trial as we suggest! Tlte Chairman.-I think not. Mr. lrnray.-\Ve want to show the power left after three applications of the brake. The Chairman.-You must understand that I do not wish to throw any obstacle in your way, as the trial you suggest may

be a very valuable one; but I want to arrive at a clear understanding as to what will be satisfactory, so that, if it is carried out, there can be no question as to whether it is a fair and competitive trial.

M1'. hnra..1J.-If you say that both sides are to do the same there cannot be any difficulty. Tl!e Chairman.-\Vould you suggest ~tny means of indicating when the brake is put on and taken off? ;.lh·. lrnray,-You first pass the speed flr~gs. ]<'rom the moment the t,'Teen ftag is passed (as in the other trials), both sides

should have the liberty of applying their brakes four times, as quickly tM they can, bringing the train to a standstill after the fourth application.

The Chai1·man.-Simply to put on and take off the brakes as rapidly as possible~ :Mr. lmray.-Yes.

train.

61

Mr. Horniblow.-Your gauge is fixed to the pipes, is it not? It is not fixed to the storage reservoir? Mr. Campbell.-It is fixed to the pipes, but on putting the handle in a certain position we can show what power is in the

"Vr. Btttcltelor.-It does not matter what speed you reduce to, or how long you keep the brake on, does it 'I .~fr. Carnpbell.-He can stop as quickly as he likes, supposing it has been applied four times. Mr. Imray.-The application of the brake means the coming together of the blocks and the wheels . . Mr. Horniblow.-Don't you think the time should be fixed between each application? Mr. Imray.-There can be no objection to that. Jlfr. Ilorniblow.-Which do you prefer~a level or a bank? .l¥fr. Campbell.~I prefer a level, if possible. No. a suggestion, as follows, was then considered :-"Repeated increases of brake power, demonstrating that, after the

brake blocks make contact with the wheels, they can still be closer and more closely applied." The Chairman.-What you mean is a graduation of power, I presume? Mr. Imray.-Yes. The Chai1'man.-Do I understand that it is simply a graduation of power applied to brake blocks? llfr. Imray.-Yes. The Chairman.-In that case, I believe, there can be no competitive trial, because the other brake, as far as I know, has

only one power of aprlication. jl:fr•. Jm,.ay.-We only bring this forward as far as we are concerned. \V e have a right to bring that forward, in order to

show what we can do. The Chairman.--! intend to take evidence to ascertain if the ·woods brake can be subjected to a similar trial. If they

admit that it cannot, it is not necessary to conduct trialli to demonstrate the fact. Clause 4 was then considered :-"Separating of trains from engine without application of brake on either until wished by

the guard or driver thereafter." The Cha·irman.-\Vhat does that mean? Nr. Jmray.-It means that the engine is slipped from the carriages, but that the brake is not applied. That is to say,

the engine can go away and leave the carriages running behind without the brake being applied. The Chairman.-It virtually means to convert the action of the brake from automatic into non-automatic. Jlb·.lmJ'ay.-Yes. It is made a great point at home to slip some of the carriages, and let part of the train go one way and

part another way. The part of the train slipped must have the power to stop where necessary. Supposing a train is approaching a junction, and 1t is desired to send one part in another direction to that in which the engine is proceeding, when the carriages are slipped the brake must have the power of stopping them at the will of the guard or conductor.

The Chairman.-Do you wish to divide the train into three portions-that i; to say, the engine, and two or three carriages, and some more of the carriages?

.Mr. Immy.-Two portions only-both undivided without the brake, but both containing the power to be lm1ked at certain points.

The Chai?·man.-\Vithout a switch to tnrn the carriages slipped on to another line it is rather a dangerous experiment. It is very doubtful if the department would allow it .

. Mr. bnray.-\Vhy not? The Chai1·man.-Because there is a risk. All the vehicles are running on the same line, and approximately at the same

speed. Mr·. Jmray.-Supposing the engine was slipped when running three-quarter speed, it could be put to full speerl, and would

go away from the rest of the train. It need not be stopped until the carriages are brought to a standstill. There is no risk whatever if there is sufficient distance between the two.

The Chairman.-This is a test we have not the slightest power to make without the sanction of the department. \Vhether that is t<.J be obtained is another matter.

Mr. fmray.-The sanction comes from Mr. Mirls, presumably. Mr. Campbell.-Do you understand, Mr. Chairman, that the train must enter on to another line? The Chairmtzn.~No; but for safety I should think it ought. }rfr. Ilorniblow.-At present it resolves itself into closing the cocks before the coupling is slipped. Tlte Chairman.-If you think proper, I will suggest to the representatives of the department that you wish this done, and

they will have to decide. Job·. Imray.-\Ve understood that you were to decide whether the experiments were worth trying or not. The Chainnan.-1 think not. "vir. /mmy.-Are we to understand that we are to be subjected to another authority besides yourselves? 1'he Chai1"lnan.~We are asked by the Railway Department to witness certain things. These things are presented by you,

and by )fr. \Voods, under the control of the Railway Department. \V e have not the slighte:;t power to depart from the arrangement made by the Railway Department for facilitating our observations.

"~fr. Imray.-There is nothing to prevent this happening. Supposing you pass, and we wish, certain trials, the locomotive office holds the power to prevent these trials.

The Cl!air-man.-If I were anxious to have trials made, and could not induce ::\fr. Mirls to make them willingly, my duty would be to write to the Secretary for Railways.

ilk. lmra.y.~As long as we understand that, it is all ric-ht. The Chatnnan.-As to the Board ordering any trial~, f do not conceive that we have the slightest power. "lf1". bn,.ay.-\Ve can have your views, I sup]Jose, as to whether you consider the trials necessary? The Cha·i?·nzan.-That is my object in asking you to explain these things. I do not wish you to understand, however, that,

by discussing these matters to·day, we are ""Oing to carry out any of the trials. I wish you to explain the full meaning of these clauses, so that, after taking evidence from both sides and from the Railway Department, we will have sufficient information before us to enable us to judge whether the trials are neceils11ry and adviBable. It would be an unending affair, supposing you, as representatives of the \Vestinghouse Brake Com}!any, or the representatives of the Woods Brake Company, had the power to say-" 'We want that trial, or we want this." \\ e should be here, perhaps, for twelve months .

. Mr·. Imr·ay.-We put these in as our final requests. You must not forget our position with the Locomotive Superintendent, Mr. 1\>firls. So long as Mr. Mirls can exert any power by preventing any experiments the Board wish made, we are not in a fair position. It was first arranged that he should be on the Board. \Ve were obliged to protest, and it was accepted. \Ve are now before a thoroughly impartial Board, with power to exert its influence independently for either side; but the fact cannot be got over that Mr. ~Iirls is decidedly for the Woods brake.

The Clu!i1'1>Wn.-I put the case with regard to the 4th clause. Supposing I say to Mr. Mirls, "We should like this done," he may say, "I will not take the responsibility of doing it." If I do not consider that a sufficient reason, I can ask the Secretary for Railways to obtain the Commissioner's views on the matter. 'l'he Commissioner may decide that it shall not be done. What powe: have we ? We cannot as a Board interfere with the property of the Railway Department. It would be utterly out of the questiOn.

ill•·. Imra!J·-Then it does not remain with you to decide whether the experiments are dangerous or not? The Chn.i1'11Uta.-Oh, no. I think the Commiosioner of Railwftys would be very foolish if he did not follow the opinions of

his officers, notwithstanding our views. Mr. C'n.mpbell.-'\V here does the danger of this trial come in? 1'/te Chairman.-We are not prepared to discmss that just now. \Ve will discuss that amongst ourselves as a matter of

course, and whatever conclusion we arrive at we will simply follow. However, I think I clearly understand what you mean by this clause, that is,.the seyaration of the train into two parts before the bmke is applied.

Jlfr. Immy.- Yes. J.l1'. Batchelor.-Is it the practice of the Railway Department to divide any of the trains in this manner? The Chai,•man.-1 don't know. \'{e must take Mr. Mirls' views on the subject. Clause 5 was then read~" An official run to Brighton and back, showing every.day working of brake.'' 'he Chairman.-I don't think there can be the slightest objection to that. Is there any other point you would like to

mention? .lflr. fmmy.-Only so far as the programme for further trials is concerned. \Ve had nothing to do with the previous

prog;amme drawn up. .\Ve had to accept it. The right way woul~l have been forth~ Board to have drawn up the programme, but 1t was drawn up Without the control of the Board at all. Th1s programme hanng been drawn up by, as has already been seen, the Woods brake side, we hold we have a right to bring forward n. progmlllme of our :;ide. \Ve were heavily handicapped in the trial~ arranged by )1r. J\Iirh;, and we would now like to have fmther trials with tt li"ht engine, to show further what we can do. The merits of a brake depend ou what it eau do genemlly, o

• 1'he Ciw.i,.rnan.--Y ~si that ie quite fair, and we are here just to discuss that point. .\ny further trials tht~t will be perfectly satisfactory ahlm to the I,mlw;ty 1 lepartment and to us we :;hall only he too glad to umke. Of course, our objeet will be to test the brakes as practical appliances and not as fanciful apjJiiances. Your hrake, or any other person'• bmke, may do wonderful things; hut we want to know what they will do when they are required to stop tt train. I thillk this is our chief object and duty in making these investigations. The practical side of the question is the one we have to deal with.

62

M,._ lm?'a,';.-Thcre are many other point,; about a bra.ke besides that of stopping a train quickly. The Chairman.-'-I agree with that remark, but we do not wish to investigate the ermtic operations of brakes. Jl-fr. lm•·a'f.-\V c are willing to go through our programme, and show that any of the trials we asked for are applicable to

evcry.day working. Tlte Chairman.-Do you de.sire to a&k any fnrther questions? Mr. lmra/f.-Thcre arc one or two things we desire wme information about. In the matter of evidence, for instance. We

do not count this as evidence. How is it proposed to take evidence? The Chai1·mwn ..... -lf you have any officer yon wish to present to the Board we shall be glad to hear him. 21{•·. Imray.-\Vi!l the evidence be taken singly, or in the presence of the other side? The C!wi1~nan.-I think singly. Jlr. Imray.-\Vlrat i;; the check on evidence from either side? The Chairman.-Onr judgment. Jlr. hnraJf.-Can we give you the names of outside imlividnals? The ClwirHum.-···-I think we should ask you to consider that we aro here under great difficulties to ourselves, but I do not

think we have any right to refuse any evidence you nmy wish to present. Any evidence you present ought to be evidence bearing on the practical question at i;;sue. \Ve do not want to be troubled with extraneous evidence regards political feeling in the matter.

Jfr. lm?'UJJ.--1 tlo nut think you have fonml that in auy case we lutve gone outsirle the pure question of the brake. The Chairmrw.--I hnve nothing to complain of about what has been done on either side. .Myself and colleagues feel that

the question is heing delmted in a straightforward and honora],Jc manner; bnt I know that their time, like my own, is valuable. HoweYer, a.' regard." any practical evidence you may have to submit, which you think will improve your case, if you will forward the names of the gentlemen, we will ende:tvor to give them a hearing.

N1·. Imray.-May we ask that in the case of evidence given by engine-drivers they will be examined by you alone, and their narneA not given in either cnse as to which way they lean. Any engine-driver who wanted to speak outright would otherwise be placed in an awkward position. You eau easily undcmtand thctt.

The Clwirman..--It is impossible not to take the names of the men. vV e c11nnot, as a Board, t.:1ke evidence without taking the names.

1111·. ImraJ;.-Y on can take their evidence, but need not necessa.:rily divulge their names. The Clwinnan.-All the evidence will be printed. 'I'hat is the usual course at these inquiries. I do not think the public

would consider the matter effectually dealt with unless that were done. It is impossible not to take the names. Have you any counterpoise to sugg·est to a vert the danger you seem to foresee ?

Mr. hm·a:;.-I think we mmt go straight on ami give the names. Mr. Jlorniblou:.-I do not think the men will be prejudiced by any evidence they give of this kind. The Clurinnan.-vYonld it he any counterpoise or check if you were allowed to sit here·; Jfr. Irn'ray.-I have no wi"h whatever to sit here, bocan'c when once the matter is brought before you, there it ends. The Clwirman.-In the event of one of your men coming here and giving evidence which might be untrue, have you any

suggestion to mfLke ? Jfr. lmmy.-··I think sic! eo should be present. A representative or representatives of the ·woods and Westinghouse

Companies should ho present, with no po\\ er to interfere in the proceedings, excepting misstatement~ are made. I do not think the Board should have any ohjection to that.

Jlr. llorn,il;low,-But what >:tLont the publication of the evitlence day by day 1 "llr. Imraj!.-You can anange that by exulnding the prer;s.

. Tlte Chrarmon.-I do not see any ob]ootion tu the two sides being represented. I will not give a positive answer, but we w11! take a n<>te of it and let yon know.

1lb·. hnray.-If yon are not going to enter into ovit1cnce in reference to the merits we claim in the construction of the brake, I think the matter is ended, so f:w~ as we arc concerned.

The Chairuwn.·-v\'e will not do that to-rlay. Messrs. Imray mHl Camphe!l then withdrew. The Honorable .J. \Voods, ao representative of the 'vVoods Automatic Continuous Bmkc Company, then interviewed the

Board, in response to the letter which had been forwarded by the Secretary. The interview with JUr. vV oods was purely of a conversational nature. In reply to question~, he said he had no obj<Oction to any further trials the Board might consider it desirable to make. He

would leave the matter ontiroly in their hands. \Vhere competitive tests were the conditions should be as nearly fair and equal as possible. In the application of his brake by the guard they were at a As regarded the slip·coupling test, the Board had on the previom day cured the objection he had to that.

Tlte Ch,!tirml!11 ;;aid that, as far as the slip-con] >ling tests were concerned, the Board wonld like to have it over again with the Woods brake. vVith regard to the objoction .Mr. \Voods raised to the application of the brake by the rear guard, could it be altered so :M to make the application of the engine brake po.s•ible hy the guard?

Jb-. Woorl.< said he would alter it if the Board wished. The Cf,airmun thought itwonlcl put the \Voods hmke on the same footing with the vVcstinghouse in respect to this particular

trial if the alteration was nutclc. "lfr. Woods o;aid he would ask Mr. Mirh; how long- it wonld take. After further t.liscn;,c;ion, ;vrr. \Vood,.; said if the Board wished to take eYidencc about the reliability of the brake and its

durability, he would he happy to furnish the same. The CJ,o.irm"n roplicd that, a;; far as that day's proceedings were concerne<l, they wore going to confine it to a conversational

inquiry, but they would take evidence later on. ~~h·. lVoorl.< said n li<t of persons would he furnished who could be summoned to attend, and the Board could ask them

whatever qnestions they liked. Tlw Chairman saicl that in the matter nf evidence the '\V e,tinghnnse firm had snggestcd that one representative of each firm

should be present when ovitlence being taken, withont power to interfere. Had Mr. \Voods any objection to this course? Mr. Woods had no objection if the f;nggestion commendcd itself to the Board. For his pa1t, the press could also

be present. The Chairman oaitl they did not want the press to be present. The programme of mlditiom1l submitted by the rcproticntatives of the \Vestinghonse Company, was then read to

Mr. w-oods, each clause hcin;; taken 'l'o the first clause (that two stops should be made with light engines simibr to those already gone through tvith heavy ones),

Mr. Woods said he had no objection, providing an engine could be got that the brake train regularly. If the Westinghouse people had No. 2fi engine, he would want No. 40, bnt No. 40 had n .steam

It was explained that the \V estinghouse bl'alce would be cut off the if necessary, so as to m>:tke the conditions of trial equal.

The Chairman then explained the intention of the \V estinghouse Company with respect to clause 2, which provides for four applications of the bmke in mpid succession.

M1·. Woods said he hac\ no ohjc1ction~ to mttke, lmt he conltl not see that tlw proposed trial would he of the slightest utility. The same result could he obtained with tl1e train stationary. \Vlw was to sacy that the blocks touched the wheeL'!? It was more a question of sleight-of-lmnd. Some mi:;ht say they did; othcrc. they did not. ·

The C!wirmrw. said he had informed the \Vcstinghouse representatives that the suggestions made would be taken into consideration, n.nd after the Board h<cd decided the matter they wnuld he iuformoo ""to whether or not it was intended to carry them out. Before deciding, they wished to know if there any ohjection on :\Ir. '\Voods' part?

Jlfl·. Woods did not pnt it in the fonn of an objection, he could not see that any practieal utility would be the result of the test.

Tke Chni1•man gathered that the '\Vcsting·honsc people were nwler the impression tlmt the vVoods brake would not stand four applications am1 then have mHicicnt reserve force to draw up the train in a rc:csmml1le space. If lilr. Woods had any objection to the trial, it would he cut out. If he had not, they would make the trill! perhap:;, and simply take the result. After they had got the result, it might wei:.sh with them, or it might

Jl-lr. Woods would leave it to the Board. He never knew any brake being put on fonr or five times in quick succession under any circumstances. However, he would leave the matter :;olely in their lmmb.

In reference to No. :1 suggestion, the Chairman exph1ined that it referretl to a gradual application of power. ]}{,·, Woods said it wae claimed for the vV cstinghoMc brake that it could be applied at any pressure they pleased. It was

also claimed that after the bmkc was pnt on its rn·oo;><nre cnuld he increaBcd at will. Of conrse it could not be increased beyond the maximum unrlcr any circumstances. He had that m;ltter under consideration from the very first, and he came to the conclusion that in all practicnl wotk the velocity itself wa.'! the reducing power. The momo.ntum of the train 111nning :tt high speed rendered the gradual application of the brake unnecef\:·JHI'Y.

1'he C!wirman.-Ae far as this test i> conccrne,l, you do uot wit;h to >'1Jhmit your hrake to <my alteration to carry it into effect?

Jfr. Wu(){/;;.-No.

63

The Clta·innan.-\Ve will.'!trike it out then, an<l will not mnke it under any circumHt:mcu,;. \Vith respect to the conversion of the brake from automatic action to non-automatic action as desired in dause 4, J,fr. }Vuods

said he would not care to alter his bmke so as to make its action non-automatic. Tlte Chairman said this trial would n,)go be diBpcnsed with. . Mr. Woods had no objection to offe1' to the bst J'roposition respecting .Mr. Woods suggeRted the advisability of ccttuimng hi,;hn ''i'"'-'d" with

two previous days. Them were gmdieuts ou Home of the lines whc1·e 70 trial could be made with :11! brakes off on a steep gradient at not less than to be applied, and distances and time taken in "topping,

ofHcial run to nrighton . traius m:cking the• trials tlutn those l'C<J,ched on the an hour could he got without any ditiiculty. One

wiles an hour. On p>tbsing a certa.in ,,i,;nal brakes

The C!wirman.-\Vould there be anything to learn beyond whtt is to ho leamed from the tests already rnrcde? 1111·. lVoods.-.. -Nothing, with the solitrrryexccption that I noticed with the \Vestinghouce hmke the higher the speed the gre»ter

the jolting in the carriages. I dont think it v>tdes mnch in the 'V nods hrake, but in the \V cstinghonsc it vrtries very much. After further discussion the Chairrrmn sa.i<l the Boa.rd would give the matter cmmidoration, tmd Mr. 'Voods then retired. 'l'he Board, aft.er interviewing l\Ir. MirlH, IJocomoti ve Superintendent, respecting vari<ms cletttils connected with Nos. 25 and

40 engines, adjourned until :Monda.y morning.

At the sitting of the Boa.nl on Monday, 2\lth .January, l\lr. \V nod, attendwl and t;lan for ehecking more accurately the time occupied in bringing the train to stand.-till after the >tpplicfttion He proposed that the chronographs >hould be stopJ•ed on the engine pa,;~;ing green flaf!, as usua.l, by the leading a cord placed across the rails in order to obtain rate of speed for one-tenth a mile, aud the in.,tant the tmin stop pet!, to be started. By taking the tlifference in time between the chronographs and the w:~tches Bt,crted on the train coming' the time occupied in pulling up would be indicated. He would also like the Board to test the merits of the two a• 1 egarded Jolting when stopping a train by travelling in the carriages. He alluded to the ropes :tttachc>l to the val ws at end of the \Vestinghnuse train, and s>tid they certainly appeared to be placed in a convenient position for anybody in the van to m>mivubte them. :!<'or the purpose of seeing the \Voods brake in daily work, he 'mggested that the Board hhouhl t:>ke a. trip to \Villiamstown by a.ny of the trains, without giving notice. He >tsked for permission to enlarge the release cock on the van, whi<:h granted.

Jl.'[r, M:irls, Locomotive Superintendent, then had'' convet,,ation with the Board the weighing· the two trains. JI.Iessrs. Imray and Camphell next had an iutcrview with the Board. Mr. fmm?J asked if either sitle had power to ,,Iter their brake~ for the

altered in such a manner that it would have to he altered b:wkag-ain for •>r,Jin:wy The Clw·i'l'1na.n said that the question raised hy l\lr. Imray coHid only

support of the statements made. He informed Jl.[r. Imray of the permission the guard's van. '

kind.

experiments. The \Voo>l" hralcc had been The alt.ercction was vcry material one.

ith upon eYiclence furnished in 'V'"" I" to cnlart;'e cock on

Mr. lmm,q replied that he had no objection to an alteration of In reply to a question from the Chairman as to the nature

altered for emergency teste, .Mr. Imray said the cams actuating the running would not be admissible, because the power would be too

'J'he Chairman differc>l from the opinion hel<l by .\lr.

C<lmplaint ahout the \V nods brake having been block>< ha<l been multiplied in power, wh~ich in

on the whcc!B.

running, the fact would umluubtedly be made :;pparent when the After some further remarks. the Chairnmn said the mattet·

this the

make a rule which would prevent either brake being eh own to the hest advanta.gf'. Mr. hm·a.'fasked if the report in the Age was to be bke11 aq the official

too ~trong for ortlinary

He would tleclinc to

The Clwirrnan replied that the Board had nothing to do with Age or any newsvaper report. Before thG interview termin:1ted, 1\Ir. Campbell suggested that 3-1 Cllf4ine, on the South Snhnrhctll line.,, should he sub-

stituted for Xo. 40, selected by Mr. \Vouds for the trinls with light as the httcr was fitted with ''~ steam bmko. T!te C!utirman saiJ the matter would receive consideration. Nr. Woods subecquently informed the Bo>trtl that the telegraph engineer (Mr. K. JJ. :i\Innay) had arranged to have another

chronograph placed at the green flag, which would be started automn.tieally as the tmin p:tBsctl. By comparing this chrnnogmvh with the watches started on the train coming to a gtand the time taken to stop ooul<l be very accl<ratdy ,,.,certainecl. He ivould object to using No. 34 instead of No. 40. 'l'lle Board took a note of the objection.

APPE~DIX C.

PROGUA:\IME.

1. Two stops with engines, as ah•t•ady gone through with hea' y ones, 2. Four :1pplications the brake in r11pid H1lCCCRhillll. 3. Repeated incre»sos of brake power, dcnHm:;trating that ctfter the brake blocks make contact with the wlwols they ean

still be closer >tntl more closely a.pplied. 4. Separating of trains from engine without :tpplication nf brake on either nntll wished hy the g'Uard nr driver there>tfter. 5. An official run to Brighton and back, showing every-day working of !Jrake.

This document handed in by the 'Vestinghonse ngents, as taking the place >lf sn~<gestiono in their lettm' of 22nd January to the Secretary of Rai!ways.-W.T. 27.1.!53,

APPE~DIX D.

VIC'TORIAN RAILWAYS.

PROGRAMME Oli' TRIALS TO DE MADE WITH 'VOODS AcTOl.rATTC Co:iTI:i'UOUS I31\AKE .~Nl> \VES'l'INGJIOUSJ<: Ar'fO~IATTC Co:nu>a:OUS

BRAKE, llETWEEN \VEII!tlllEE AND LITTLg Il.!VEH STATIONS, ON Tt:ESDAY, :JO'rH .TANUAHY 1883.

1. \Vooos BRAKE.-To be applied by slipping between tender of engine ant! cania.o-cs. 2. \Voons BRAKE.--To be applied by gn:1rd in van. ~ 3. On passing green flag the brakes of bt>th traim to be put on and talwn off three times in succcs:,ion m.pidly as pus."ible,

and immediately after the fourth application the train to be Lrought tn a ~taucl. Didtanccc; tu be taken hma green liag to point of rest. Pressures to be taken fro1n indicator gauge.~. "

4. Three Htops in s~c~essio~1 to b~ Intulc \vith each The tintc to be .taken Lctween c£tch stoppngl-'; and the succeeding start, so as to test the rap1drty wrth winch the brakes can released and the tram freely ;;tmted again.

5. Brakes to be tested while trains are standing, tu ar;cer·tain the rapidity with which the block; are 1Jronaht into contact with the wheel~ throughout the length of the train. A]lp!icatiuns nf this test to be made by guarrl and driver. "

G. Two stops w1th each tr>tin worked by light engiue;; at speeds as high a~ ctm be obtained between Gisburno mrd Ricldell's Creek stations, on the )lain line.

7. 1'wo rnns with ench brake tmin down the Ridtlell'f; Creek hank. BrakeB to be appli<•<.l at .speed< approximating GO miles All hour.

64

APPENDIX E.

VICTORIAN RAILWAYS.

Telegraph Engineer's Office, Melbourne, 1st February 1883.

MEMORANDUM.

The following are the times taken by the trains to run between the two posts at the brake tests :-

No. 1 train H 2 1t

ll 3 I!

u 4 11

n 5 11

No. 1 train ,, 2 ll

!I 3 11

11 4 !!

No. 1 train ff 2 " tl 3 11

11 4 ll

" r) u

No. 1 train 11 2 ft

Thursday, 25th January 1883.

7A seconds. No. 6 train 9~ 11 11 7 1f

8! " 11 8 " 8 " 9 11

8 ,, Friday, 26th January 1883.

S.l seconds.

I No. 5 train

n " 6 11

8 " 7 " 7~ " " 8 " Tuesday, BOtlt January 1883.

8~ seconds. No. 6 train 7~ 11 11 1 " sg ,, 11 s I'

8\ ,. 9 " s·~ ~~ 10 "

Wednesda!J, illst January 1888.

~~ seconds. ns 11

No. 3 train " 4 ,,

8! seconds. 8 " 9! " 8~

Si seconds. 8~ n 11

83

5! seconds. 5 "

K. L. MURRAY,

The Chairman Brake Trial Board, &c., &c., &c. Telegraph Engineer.

APPENDIX F.

BRAKE TRIALS.-25/1/Sil.

\VooDs. \VESTINGHOUSE,

··----···---

No. 1 Trial.-Stopped ... ... ... ... 576' 0'1

Standing at 300 feet from flag where brake was applied; no wheels skidded.

No. 2 TriaL-Stopped .. ... ... 538' 0" Standing same position (300ft.); four (4) wheels

skidded. No. 3 TriaL-Stopped . .. ... ... . .. 734' 0"

Jl,feasnred to centre of axle, last wheel of van. · No. 4 TriaL--Stopped ... ... ... 13391 0"

Measured to centre of coupling between engine and first carriage.

No. 1 Trial.-Sto,Pped 575' 0" All in carr1ages.

No. 2 TriaL-Stopped ... ... ... ... 660' 0" Standing at 300 feet from flag where brake was

applied; five (5) carriages and van skidded. No. 3 Trial.-Stopped 498' 0"

No. 4 'rrial.-Stopped 660' 0

J. F. BRAGGE, Assistant Engineer.

APPENDIX G.

WooDs.

Trl~l No.

1 742' 0" Centre of a..xle of 0 front wheel of

2 609' 0" engine

Centre of axle of 0 front :wheel of engtnc

3 638' 6" Centre of axle of 6 front wheel of engine

4 702' 6" Centre of axle of 0 (g'rds) last wheel of

Rear Guard's van

BRAKE TRIALS,-26/1/Sil.

0 4

0 0

4 0

0 0

Trli<l .No.

1

2

3 (g'rds)

4 (slip}

\VESTINGHOUSE.

L{'nf;1:h in feet to i where train stopped 1\Iensured from"\\' here lltakc I Green Flag

\Vas applied. -----------

I

756' 0" /Centre of axle of front wheel of

: engine 505' 0'' i Centre of axle of

front wheel of : engine

(JOG' 6" ! Centre of axle of

I last wheel of Rear Guard's van

321' 0" Measured from

i where bottle broke to cen·

I trcofcoupling to engine.

Wheels skidding at-

7car. 9car. 9car.

4 whls. 4car, 4 car.

J. F. BRAGGE, Assistant Engineer.

65

APPENDIX H.

BRAKE TRIALS.

Trial No. Brake. I / Length in feet to \ Whll(jls skidding at-

Engine ,where train stopped Measured from Green Flag to- 1--~--,------;---~ -,,...---· No. I from where Brake 1 I

--- -------l--l--w·-"-s-ap_p_ll_•d_. __ , ___________________ :1~~ ~_: ~_: 1

2

3 4 5 6 7 8 9

10

1 2 3 4

AT WERRIBEE.--30/1/83.

Woods (slip) ... 50 482' 0'' Measured from where bottle broke to 0 0 6 0 centre of coupling to engine

Woods(guards') 50 738' 0" To centre of axle of last wheel of rear 0 0 0 6 guard's van

W estinghouse 25 505' 0" To centre of axle of front wheel of engine 26 8 ... ... Westinghouse 25 606' 0" To centre of axle of front wheel of engine 16 16 28 ... Woods ... 40 613' 6" To centre of axle of front wheel of engine 4 8 4 ... Woods 40 688' 0" To centre of axle of front wheel of engine 8 10 20 4 Westinghous~ · · 108

I

707' 6" To centre of axle of front wheel of engine 0 10 18 0 Woods ... 50 879' o· To centre of axle of front wheel of engine 0 0 0 0 W estinghouse 108 372' 6" Measured from where bottle broke to ... ... . .. ...

centre of coupling to engine , \V estinghouse 25 400' 0" To centre of axle of front wheel of engine ... ... ...

I ·-- -~

Wheels sil.ldding at-

AT RIDDELL'S CREEK.-31/1/83. 400' 0" 600' 0" 800' 0" 1000' 0"

Woods ... j 50 1693' o· Woods ... , 50 2434' 9H W estinghouse 108 1709' 0" W estinghouse 108 1951' 6R

Bogie-tank Engine No. 40----Heating surface in tubes

, fire-box

Travel of valve Lap ,. Lead ,.

---To centre of axle of front wheel of engine 12 4 0 0 To centre of axle of front wheel of engine 12 8 6 10 To centre of axle of front wheel of engine 8 0 0 14 1-'o centre of axle of front wheel of engine 0 0 2 0

J. F. BRAGGE, Assistant Engineer,

APPENDIX I.

4 inches ~inch 'l:g ,,

Victorian Railways, Locomotive, Carriage, and Wagon Branch,

Locomotive Superintendent's Office, Melbourne, 5th February 1883,

930'63 84•7

1,015·33 square feet.

Blast pipe, diameter ... Diameter of coupled wheels ...

Width of ports 13! inches Strok~ cylinder

4?! inches 5 feet

16 inches 20 "

Main Line Passenger Engine No, 50-Heating surface in tubes

fire-box ... 924 120

1,044 square feet

Travel of valve Lap

4b inches Width of port ... 16 inches 1- inch Blast pipe .. . ... 4~ ,, diameter

Lead , Inside lap ,

i\ , Dbmeter of coupled wheels ... 6 feet ,~'" , cylinders, 16 inches. 24 inches stroke

Main Line Passeng-er Engine No. 108 is exactly the :;ame as No. 50, except that the cylinders in 108 are 17 inches diameter.

Bogie-tank Engine No. 25-Diameter of cylinders Length of "troke ... Diameter of wheels ...

Heating surface, fire-box tubes

Hi inches 22 5 fe~t

Travel of valve Lap

82•3 667"99

7ii0·29 square feet

4;f inches 1 inch

S. MIRLS, Locomotive Superintendent.

By Authority: Jon:s :E'ElU\1£8, Government l'rlnter1 Melbourne. BRAKES BoARD. I