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Are there particular politics that necessarily flow from a value-form analysis, or

form-analysis in general?

James Furner 11/16/14: “This is a very good question, Alexander, and I thin that it hel!s to set it u! as

you do, "y distinguishing the theoretical question (1) what political commitments are inseparablefrom, or compatible with, value-form theory; from the empirical question (2) what political

theory or even what political perspectives have people who self-ientify as value-form theorists in

fact come up with? #any o$ the latter %ill "e &erman' (ut the greatest value)$orm theorists, in res!e*tto seeing to understand its im!li*ations $or la% and !oliti*s, the +-s .ua*s and ashuanis, %ere not&erman' 0It goes %ithout saying that no%ing the &erman language is a ne*essary *ondition $ordevelo!ing value)$orm theory as is not "eing !aro*hial2' I thin %e %ould have $irmer res!onses toquestion 012 i$ . and had had the ind o$ in$luen*e in generating resear*h and $ello% thiners that e'g'3a"ermas has had' !aving sai that, the obvious "ar#ist current that value form-base theory

contrasts with is class-base "ar#ist theory, i$e$ is the most funamental aspect of "ar#%s

critique of capitalism the commoity form, or is it class e#ploitation? o%, i$ %e thin a"out the

theoreti*al and em!iri*al questions 012 and 0+2 in relation to *lass)$ounded #arxist theory, is it reallythe *ase that %e get any less un*ertainty in res!e*t to 012 and any less variation in res!e*t to 0+2 than inthe *ase o$ value $orm)"ased theory5 I dou"t it' Another thought: to no% %hat $ollo%s $rom the goalo$ a value)$orm)less so*iety 0no less than the goal o$ a *lassless so*iety2, one %ould have to s!ell out%hy su*h a so*iety is a good 0i'e' do some normative !oliti*al !hiloso!hy2, and s!ell out %hat ind o$means are ne*essary or !ossi"le to a*hieve it 0i'e' do some em!iri*al analysis2' in*e there is not mu*h#arxist normative !oliti*al !hiloso!hy in general, it-s not sur!rising that the un*ertainly in res!e*t to012 a!!lies not 7ust to the value)$orm)"ased strand o$ #arxism'8

9 .o*as*io-s ;: “I-d say it-s *lass ex!loitation as mediated "y the *ommodity $orm'8

  9 Furner ;: “this *omment is a little *hea!, i$ I may say' It does not address the distin*tion I %asmaing 0%hi*h %as o$ *ourse o$$ered as a des*ri!tion o$ existing a!!roa*hes and not a statement o$ myo%n vie%2' I %as distinguishing strands o$ #arxism on the "asis o$ %hat they tae the <most$undamental as!e*t< o$ the #arxist *ritique o$ *a!italism to "e and you *an-t have t%o most$undamental as!e*ts' &ostone an 'ohen are obvious e#amples of each ' #y !oint %as that as many !ositions are allo%ed "y *lass)"ased0i'e' *lass)as)the)most)$undamental)as!e*t)o$)a)*ritique)o$)*a!italism2 #arxism, $rom =ohen to !eo!le%ho have nothing in *ommon %ith analyti*al #arxism, as are allo%ed "y value)$orm)"ased #arxism'Any dis*ussion o$ the $a*t that many !ositions are allo%ed "y value)$orm)"ased #arxism needs toa*no%ledge that $a*t 0or dis!ute it2 "ut your *omment does neither'8

Alexander .o*as*io: “>hat I $ind use$ul in ohrt is rather the notion, !ro"a"ly "etter stated andgrounded "y ;l"e, that the critique of political economy is not a revolutionary theory, but a theory

of why revolution oes not happen' It is then in*um"ent u!on *ommunists to mae stru*tures o$rei$i*ation trans!arent, rather than !in ho!es u!on an automatism o$ li"eration'8

?ario @anovi: “The %orer-s movement thus $ar, rather than seeing its sel$)a"olitionBand this isthe %hole insight o$ the *ommuniCation *urrentsBhas sought to a$$irm itsel$, and, inso$ar as it is 7ustone !ole in the *a!ital)la"our relation, it has also re!rodu*ed *a!ital' I $ind the *ase $or the vie% that-%orers- *olle*tive ex!erien*e naturally leads them to *ontradi*t and a*t against their domination "y

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*a!ital- du"ious at "est, i$ not outright dis*on$irmed "y history' arely, i$ ever, have %orers- strugglesrisen a"ove e*onomism, and even in those histori*al *on7e*tures %here the question o$ the a"olition o$*a!italism %as raised, that might have "een more a $un*tion o$ re*ently $ormally su"sumed dD*lassDartisans and !easants re"elling against $ormal su"sum!tion, than a $un*tion o$ a %oring *lass $ullysu"sumed "y *a!ital'8

Jas!er (ernes: “This *onversation stries me as very odd' he ultraleft position has always been thattheory evelops spontaneously out of the e#periences of the woring-class, an that the

revolutionary leaership of the party (a la *autsy, an +enin via *autsy) is unnecessary$ .ua*s tries to s!lit the di$$eren*e, and marry a s!ontaneist a!!roa*h to !roletarian theory to theEautsyan argument $or the ne*essity o$ the intelle*tual leadershi!' Althusser, as I read him, is $romstart to $inish an argument $or the ne*essity o$ revolutionary theory as a vital element that the re"elling*lasses don-t have a**ess to, and an assertion that they $ail "e*ause o$ this la* o$ a**ess to !ro!ertheory' It-s a de$ense o$ his o%n *riti*al readings o$ =a!ital, et*', as a vital element ne*essary $orsu**ess$ul *lass stuggel 0"e*ause ideology2' There$ore I-m *on$used "y Andre% yder -s *ritique o$3einri*h-s !osition on %oring *lass $etishism $rom an Althusserian/.eninist !osition' These are all thevariants o$ the same 0intelle*tualist2 !osition, and have histori*ally "een o!!osed "y those ultrale$ttheories )) re!resented today "y ;ndnotes )) that insist that theories emerge dire*tly as a *onsequen*e o$ !roletarian struggles, and %hat ould deny the ne*essary mediating role o$ !arty intelle*tuals andtheorists'8

Andre% yder: “Althusser %rites a"out a *lass instin*t' I thin the standard reading o$ Althusser assome ind o$ theoreti*ist is a*tually totally %rong' In large !art, his %or is a"out introdu*ing *lassstruggle into the e!istemology o$ s*ien*e' It-s true that in eading =a!ital he maes an argument $or aind o$ !ure theory, $or %hi*h he later %rote a sel$)*riti*ism' (ut really, many o$ the most di$$i*ultmoments in Althusser are a"out *on$ronting the !hiloso!hy o$ s*ien*e %ith *lass struggle, not a"outlie le*turing the masses in some *ari*atural !ro$essorial ind o$ %ay'8

Jas!er (ernes: “3ere-s %hat I thin a"out the $it: 12 GFT *on*entrates $o*us on the *ore mediations o$the *a!italist mode o$ !rodu*tion as the de$ining $eature o$ *a!italism this sets a mu*h higher "ar $or aso*ialist/*ommunist revolution, as you *an no longer sim!ly dis!la*e "ourgeois *lass rule, you have toa"olish those mediations' This maes the theory a $riend o$ the ultrale$t +2 the em!hasis on money,ho%ever, has some *urious !oliti*al entailments the %hole !oint o$ u"in-s original intervention %as, I "elieve, to demonstrate that a"stra*t la"or %as something *om!letely di$$erent than the so*iallyhomogeniCed la"or in the H, and that there$ore the H %as not *a!italist' >hile this is true, as$ar as it goes, the ultimate im!li*ation o$ this theory %as not ultrale$t in any %ay it %as to suggest thatthe H %as already so*ialist' o, there are strong am"iguities in the theory'8

Automatti* A"7e*t: “i $ind Jas!er-s !revious *omment really hel!$ul' I too $eel there is a ga! some%herethere' It is not a *oin*iden*e that ostone-s tae 0!utting $or%ard a *ritique o$ the mediation o$ la"our )although I $eel he is quite am"iguous in its relationshi! %ith value)$orm2 is in some %ays very mu*h*loser to, let-s say, T=, and other mem"ers o$ the *omunisation *urrent0s2, %ho *ritique la"our as ase!arated a*tivity' I "elieve that GFT in general, or $or that matter, monetary theories o$ value, tend toado!t a some%hat transhistori*al vie% o$ la"our as a *ontent "y *on*entrating on the $orm 0I -m a$raidthis issue remains even in the most nuan*ed develo!ments o$ a"stra*t la"our, lie that o$ Arthur-s %hotals a"out the $orm)determination o$ la"our et*2' I -m not saying though that this is the only reason $orthe di$$i*ulty to $it GFT %ith ultra)le$t 0or a similar 0anti)2!oliti*al strand2'8

9s*ar ?y"edahi ;: “In some sense this is right, "ut its entirely non)!ro"lemati*' GFT tends to ado!t

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a transhistori*al notion o$ la"or in the same sense that it ado!ts a transhistori*al vie% o$ use value or%ealth' It is trivial that use values 0i$ this general or em!iri*ist a"stra*tion is taen $or granted, and#arx *ertainly had no !ro"lems %ith it2 are transhistori*ally ne*essary $or every so*iety' 0The samegoes $or la"or'2

The $orm theoreti*al !oint is that neither la"or nor use value *an have a non)mediated or transhistori*al

existen*e' The use o$ use value or la"or as transhistori*al *ategories does not entail a transhistori*al*on*e!tion o$ use value or la"or' It entails !re*isely the o!!osite: a *on*e!tion in %hi*h theexisten*e o$ la"or or use value are al%ays and ne*essarily mediated in histori*ally s!e*i$i* %ays' The "road use o$ la"or and use value are *on*e!tually ne*essary !re*isely $or maing this !oint'

 i*holas &ray: “(ullet !oints due to la* o$ time: i$ you tae value)$orm theory along the lines o$Arthur-s systemati* diale*ti* o$ *a!ital, then the theory o$ the value)$orm is ne*essarily a theory o$ex!loitation 0and *lass)struggle2' There is no *ommodity)$orm o$ value %ithout the *a!ital)$orm o$value' These are internally related moments o$ an organi* %hole' o *a!ital)$orm o$ value %ithoutex!loitation and *lass struggle' James Furner -s distin*tion *olla!ses 0and >ertriti is dis!at*hed2'=onversely, the a"olition o$ *a!ital is the a"olition o$ money and *ommodities, ex*hange, and 0all$orms o$2 value' (ye "ye roudhon, "ye "ye maret so*ialism' This im!lies the a"olition o$ thee*onomy 0in*luding *entrally !lanned ones, %hi*h in s!ite o$ the $ormal a"sen*e o$ the value)$orm,attem!t to re!la*e it through *entral !lanning 0and do a %orse 7o" than the anar*hy o$ *a!italist !rodu*tion mediated through the maret %ith !ri*e signals $a*ilitating the allo*ation o$ resour*es et*2'1 This is the theory o$ state *a!italism as o!erating %ith a shado%, de$ormed $orm o$ value'>hatever that is, it ain-t a transition to *ommunism'A $urther $it "et%een value)$orm theory and *ommunisation is in state)derivation theory:&ashuanis"+ erives the state-form from the value-form, trashing the +eninist vulgar

instrumentalist theory of the state$ "arry that with young "ar# ('rit of !egel%s &hil of .ight,

/n the 0ewish $, ntro to 'rit of !egel%s &.) i$e$ "ar#%s critique of the state as alienate sphere

which is the counterpart to alienation in economic relations, i$e$ "ar#%s raical anti-politics, an

then you are entering the omain of communisation theory$ "ar# against "ar# (e$g$ against the

"ar# of the 'ritique of the 3otha &rogramme)? "ar# 4 la carte? &erhaps, but equally it coul

be argue this is a reconstruction aequate to the 21st century$

As to the question o$ *ons*iousness and the !arty)$orm: it is true that 3einri*h, ;l"e et al' argue that the%age $etish !revents %orers $rom seeing through the mysti$i*ation o$ *a!italist $orms, hen*e the need$or intervention "y theorists' 3o%ever, in *ommunisation theory, the ne% *on$iguration o$ the *lassrelation !ost)restru*turing tends to undermine the trade union/ e*onomisti* *ons*iousness in !roletarianex!erien*e o$ struggle 0no more real %age in*reases in return $or !rodu*tivity in*reases2, no moresoCiale artners*ha$t, no more so*ial *or!oratism: tendentially !roletarians ex!erien*e the im!ositiono$ *a!italist *ategories as an external im!osition, and these lose their mystique o$ natural history' ohere, *ommunisation goes against the #. 0or you *ould argue that 3einri*h-s dida*ti* endeavoursmerely *om!lement a !ro*ess o$ demysti$i*ation o**urring in !ra*ti*e2'I$ the three sour*es o$ #arxism %ere on*e *onsidered to "e &erman !hiloso!hy, Fren*h so*ialism and(ritish !oliti*al e*onomy 0.enin2, in the +1st *entury %e *ould say these are no%: Teutoni* value)$ormtheory, &alli* *ommunisation theory and Anglo)Ameri*an em!iri*ism 0although the latter has to no%its !la*e, a*no%ledge that it is *onstitutionally una"le to engage in theoreti*al questions, and resignitsel$ to a*ting as the handmaiden o$ the other t%o, doing the em!iri*al doney)%or2'8

1 Is it a %orse 7o"5 ee htt!s://%%%'7a*o"inmag'*om/+1+/1+/the)red)and)the)"la*/

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htt!://endnotes'org'u/en/endnotes)*ommunisation)and)value)$orm)theory

htt!://ho%si*ly'"logs!ot'gr/+1K/L/value)*ritique)and)!oliti*s)or)not'html

htt!s://%%%'$a*e"oo'*om/grou!s/KL1MNLLLMO4/

htt!://endnotes'org'u/en/endnotes)the)moving)*ontradi*tion