tsimhonivtsimhoni8-13-14-150714172018-lva1-app6892

1

STATE OF MICHIGAN

IN THE CIRCUIT COURT FOR THE COUNTY OF OAKLAND

MAYA EIBSCHITZ-TSIMHONI,

Plaintiff,

v Case No. 09-766749-DM

OMER G. TSIMHONI,

Defendant./

MOTION HEARING

BEFORE THE HONORABLE LISA GORCYCA

Pontiac, Michigan - Wednesday, August 13, 2014

APPEARANCES:

For the Plaintiff: RENEE K. GUCCIARDO (P47884)

EDWARD A. HUTTON III (P76477)

The Gucciardo Law Firm PLLC

30700 Telegraph road, Suite 1580

Bingham Farms, MI 48025

(248) 723-5190

For the Defendant: AMY M. SPILMAN (P52044)

Alexander, Eisenberg, Middleditch

and Spilman PLLC

600 South Adams Street, Suite 100

Birmingham, MI 48009

(248) 358-8880

Also Present: WILLIAM LANSAT (P36752)

Guardian ad Litem

280 N. Old Woodward Avenue, Suite 250

Birmingham, MI 48009

(248) 258-7074

Transcript Provided by: Accurate Transcription Services, LLC

Firm # 8493

(734)944-5818

Transcribed by: Susan G. Johnson, CER 3511

2

TABLE OF CONTENTS

PAGE

WITNESSES

None

EXHIBITS RECEIVED

None offered.

3

Pontiac, Michigan 1

Wednesday, August 13, 2014, at 10:49 a.m. 2

* * * * * * 3

THE CLERK: The court calls docket number 73, 4

case number 09-766749-DM, Eibschitz-Tsimhoni versus 5

Tsimhoni. 6

MS. GUCCIARDO: Ready. 7

Good morning, your Honor. Renee Gucciardo on 8

behalf of the plaintiff, Maya Eibschitz-Tsimhoni. 9

MR. HUTTON: Good morning, your Honor. Edward 10

Hutton also on behalf of the plaintiff. 11

MR. LANSAT: William Lansat, GAL, your Honor. 12

MS. SPILMAN: Good morning, your Honor. Amy 13

Spilman on behalf of the defendant. Im standing in for 14

Keri Middleditch this morning. 15

THE COURT: Have I already made the disclosure 16

about him dating my research attorney? Ive already done 17

that? Have I? 18

MR. LANSAT: Yes. 19

MS. GUCCIARDO: Yes, the last time we were here. 20

THE COURT: Dad, you dont remember? 21

So thats why my research attorney wont work on 22

the case, so she walks out. 23

MS. GUCCIARDO: You did the last time we were 24

here. 25

4

THE COURT: The walk of shame. 1

MS. SPILMAN: Okay. Well, this is our motion, 2

your Honor, to-- 3

THE COURT: All right. I read everything. 4

MS. SPILMAN: --enforce--Its an emergency 5

motion that was added on to the docket with the Courts 6

permission-- 7

THE COURT: And normally Id be very upset with 8

Mom cause shes not here, but apparently shes gone? 9

MS. SPILMAN: She is gone, your Honor. And we 10

dont know when she planned to leave. 11

THE COURT: Shes in violation of all my orders. 12

MS. SPILMAN: She is. 13

MS. GUCCIARDO: She is not. You know what? Id 14

like to look at the tape the last time we were here cause 15

we put on the record-- 16

THE COURT: You can watch it. Lets watch it 17

together. 18

MS. GUCCIARDO: Lets do that. 19

MR. LANSAT: Can we do popcorn? 20

THE COURT: We do have eight bags back there. 21

MS. GUCCIARDO: You said that she had till the 22

end of August. So this whole thing-- 23

THE COURT: Wait. 24

MS. SPILMAN: No. 25

5

MS. GUCCIARDO: Yes. This-- 1

THE COURT: No, I said she had to give Dad 2

always the itinerary. 3

MS. GUCCIARDO: Which she did. She did. 4

MS. SPILMAN: The order--No, she did not, your 5

Honor. The order is very specific. Mother is not 6

permitted to travel out of the country with the children 7

unless and until she provides the travel itinerary to the 8

father. 9

MS. GUCCIARDO: And we were here two weeks 10

later-- 11

MS. SPILMAN: There was nothing specific--There 12

was nothing specific about her going somewhere in August. 13

My client has been in touch with his ex-wife. 14

They had communication. She never mentioned that she was 15

going to the south of France in August. He sent an e-mail 16

to the GAL saying he would be in town. And they had 17

communications after that. We heard nothing until August 18

seventh that she was leaving town. 19

This is not an itinerary. We dont know when 20

shes coming back. My client is in town until August 21

twenty-- 22

THE COURT: Wait. She sent an e-mail that said 23

what? 24

MS. SPILMAN: She only sent an e-mail that she 25

6

was in the south of France, staying in this village, Ill 1

let you know when we get to Paris where were staying. 2

Thats not an itinerary. We dont know when shes 3

returning. We dont know when she bought these tickets in 4

the first place. And my client is here until August 28th 5

and he would like to see his kids. 6

This is a repeat of what was here--what was 7

happening when the parties were here in June, where she 8

had a preplanned vacation, hadnt told anybody about it, 9

and my client was coming into town, and suddenly she was 10

not available. So this is the same thing all over again. 11

She did not follow the Courts orders. That is not an 12

itinerary. And my client wants to see the children. 13

And the Court had already ordered or intimated, 14

and I think the GAL motion has a motion, for that 15

parenting time to take place here because theres such 16

problems with the parenting time, that in order to get the 17

children to cooperate, we need to have the parenting time 18

here at the courthouse, which also does condense the 19

available time for parenting. 20

MS. GUCCIARDO: Now, its interesting that she 21

claims that my client didnt abide by the order. You 22

recall, the only person last time when we were here that 23

didnt abide by the order was the defendant. He didnt 24

give proper notice. Theres a court order from March 3rd 25

7

that talks very specifically about notice requirements. 1

We gave proper notice. We indicated when we were going to 2

go on vacation. He didnt. He did it late. But in order 3

to accommodate the defendant, despite his failure again to 4

abide by this Courts order, you ordered that Ms. Tsimhoni 5

not go on her vacation as she originally planned, to delay 6

it to accommodate the fact that the defendant was going to 7

be here. 8

And when we were here, we put the order on the 9

record. We were here twice because they wanted to be here 10

to talk about how the parenting time was going to take 11

place, even though we didnt have to. We could have done 12

it in the office. We all sat here in court and we put on 13

the record the last time we were here what the itinerary 14

was. And you said-- 15

We talked about when she was going to be gone. 16

You said you have the whole rest of the summer. And you 17

know what? She has a right to rely on your words. Youre 18

the court; youre the law. You said you have the whole 19

rest of the summer. 20

So what does Dad do? Instead of talking to Mom, 21

saying, hey, Im going to be here, he tries to set her up 22

so that he can again make her look bad in this Courts 23

eyes, because hes well aware of the fact of how things 24

have gone in the court, and to make her look bad by 25

8

sending an e-mail to Mr. Lansat, not communicating with 1

Mom about when hes going to be here, tries to set her up 2

by sending an e-mail to Mr. Lansat saying Im going to be 3

here, even though while we were here we clearly said she 4

was going to be gone until the end of August. So that was 5

a disingenuous e-mail from him. And hes trying to again 6

interfere with her summer vacation. So, she gave the 7

notification. He knew about it. Lets look at the tape-- 8

MR. LANSAT: (Indiscernible) 9

MS. GUCCIARDO: --because it was pretty clear. 10

MS. SPILMAN: Nobody remembers that, your Honor. 11

THE COURT: All right, so lets-- 12

MS. GUCCIARDO: Well, you werent here. 13

MS. SPILMAN: Not Ms. Middleditch because-- 14

MS. GUCCIARDO: Well, we all remember it. 15

MS. SPILMAN: --of course I was (indiscernible) 16

discuss with her, not my client,-- 17

MS. GUCCIARDO: We both remember it. Lets-- 18

MS. SPILMAN: --not Mr. Lansat. 19

MS. GUCCIARDO: --look at it. Lets look at it. 20

MR. LANSAT: This is the thing--Look at the 21

tape. But the thing is she still has to do an itinerary, 22

okay? And you have to rule whether thats a proper 23

itinerary or not. 24

THE COURT: Improper. 25

9

MR. LANSAT: But I sent out, July 29th or 1

July 30th-- 2

Shes correct about the order of 30 days; but 3

also in the order it does say unless you can work it out 4

with the GAL, so its some saving provision-- 5

THE COURT: And he did. 6

MR. LANSAT: I sent it out. But I didnt--And 7

Ms. Gucciardo did respond, said shes on vacation--Ms. 8

Gucciardo was on vacation, you know, and didnt know what 9

Mayas plans were. But I sent it directly to Maya, those 10

dates that Dad said. And had she had purchased the 11

tickets July 29th, the 30

th, the 31

st, or second, that will 12

be fine; but its mother that doesnt communicate with 13

anybody. 14

THE COURT: All right, shes going to have to 15

show when the--proof of when she purchased those tickets. 16

Does that work? 17

MR. LANSAT: Now,-- 18

MS. SPILMAN: Wed also like-- 19

THE COURT: How about this-- 20

MS. SPILMAN: --to know when shes coming back 21

and-- 22

THE COURT: All right. And-- 23

MS. SPILMAN: --maybe theres an opportunity-- 24

THE COURT: Would--Did you come-- 25

10

MS. SPILMAN: --for parenting time-- 1

THE COURT: --just for this? 2

MR. TSIMHONI: (Inaudible) 3

THE COURT: Okay. Do you want to go back and 4

watch the video? 5

MS. GUCCIARDO: Yes. 6

THE COURT: Do you want to go back and watch the 7

video? 8


THE COURT: Its torture watching yourself on 10

video. Probably not for you. 11

MR. LANSAT: Well, there were two days, Ms. 12

Gucciardo. I dont know which-- 13

THE COURT: So we can go back there. Im sure 14

somebody back there is setting it up. 15

MR. LANSAT: And, procedurally, your Honor, 16

with-- 17

THE COURT: Because then youre going to ask 18

that shes in contempt for violating all the--Is that what 19

this motion is? 20

MS. SPILMAN: Its a motion to enforce, your 21

Honor, cause-- 22

MS. GUCCIARDO: And I would (indiscernible)-- 23

MS. SPILMAN: --(indiscernible). 24

THE COURT: And costs. 25

11

MS. GUCCIARDO: --theres no emergency on this 1

thing. They knew that she was out of town. To-- 2

MR. TSIMHONI: (Indiscernible) to see-- 3

MS. GUCCIARDO: --to ask for an emergency-- 4

MR. TSIMHONI: --my kids. 5

MS. GUCCIARDO: --when they know that shes out 6

of town, when they know shes going to be here in August, 7

is improper; and Im asking for costs for having to be 8

here. This is ridiculous. 9

THE COURT: Well, I think that--Is Mr. Lansat 10

the one who called and asked for it? 11

MR. LANSANT: No. This is-- 12

MS. GUCCIARDO: No. 13

MR. LANSAT: --This is their-- 14

MS. GUCCIARDO: He never gave me notice-- 15

MR. LANSAT: --Theres two things. Theres 16

their motion, all right, that they had filed. 17

THE COURT: Well, I just had it that you called. 18

MR. LANSAT: No, I had filed a motion to have 19

parenting time in the jury room last week. You were away. 20

I had a blank notice of hearing. I didnt know you were 21

away. And they forgot to fill it in. They got a copy of 22

the motion but the clerk did not fill in the notice of 23

hearing that it was up for today. So, technically, Ms. 24

Gucciardo didnt get notice. Ill refile it. 25

12

THE COURT: Dions fired? 1

MR. LANSAT: Well repraecipe it then. 2

MS. GUCCIARDO: Pardon? 3

THE COURT: Dions fired, I guess. The clerk, 4

Dion. 5

MR. LANSAT: So Ill refile it if she doesnt 6

want to argue it today. Thats fine. 7

THE COURT: No. This-- 8

MS. SPILMAN: But your Honor, we-- 9

THE COURT: This is--Okay, this all goes back-- 10

I want Dad to have parenting time. I want Dad to have 11

more parenting time. And then I want Dad to have more 12

parenting time. And then I want Dad to have more 13

parenting time. 14

So what are you going to tell your client? 15

MS. GUCCIARDO: I want my client to be here-- 16

THE COURT: What are you going to tell your 17

client that I said? 18

MS. GUCCIARDO: I want my client to be here to 19

hear it. 20

THE COURT: I want Dad to have more parenting 21

time. 22

MS. GUCCIARDO: And I want her to-- 23

THE COURT: And I want Dad to have more 24

parenting time,-- 25

13

MS. GUCCIARDO: --be here so she can hear it-- 1

THE COURT: --and I want Dad to have more 2

parenting time, and I want his relationship to improve 3

with his children. 4

MS. GUCCIARDO: Hes got a lot to work on to 5

make it work. Hes done a lot of things that have hurt 6

the relationship. And, quite frankly, coming here and 7

trying to get their mother in trouble, knowing shes going 8

to be gone in August, doesnt help things. It really 9

doesnt. 10

MS. SPILMAN: She didnt tell anybody she was 11

going anywhere in August-- 12

MS. GUCCIARDO: Lets look at the tapes. 13

MS. SPILMAN: She said she was-- 14

MR. LANSAT: I think-- 15

MS. SPILMAN: --(indiscernible) in June-- 16

MR. LANSAT: --I think they should review the 17

tape. But what I attached to my motion, Judge, from their 18

own supervisor, whos a great guy, we tried it Mothers 19

way, we tried to work with her, we were hoping it went 20

well for (indiscernible). Its a complete disaster. We 21

need to have it here. I will refile the motion to give 22

Ms. Gucciardo time to reply. Not a problem. 23

THE COURT: Okay. The other thing,-- 24

MS. SPILMAN: Well, I-- 25

14

THE COURT: --too, is if theres not an 1

itinerary and I said an itinerary, detailed itinerary, 2

that was not a detailed itinerary, shes on the hook for 3

these fees. And with the Bar Mitzvah, too. Is there a 4

Bar Mitzvah? 5

MS. SPILMAN: She says there is no-- 6

MS. GUCCIARDO: We put it on the record-- 7

MS. SPILMAN: --she has-- 8

MS. GUCCIARDO: --and theres nothing-- 9

MS. SPILMAN: --no Bar Mitzvah plans. Shes not 10

provided him with any Bar Mitzvah plans. 11

MS. GUCCIARDO: And we put that on the record-- 12

THE COURT: And the fact of the matter is, Mr. 13

Lansat, you told her he was coming and she didnt say, Oh, 14

Im going to the south of France, lucky me, for a whole 15

month-- 16

MS. SPILMAN: She did not respond at all. 17

THE COURT: --and the other country wherever she 18

was going. Shes on the hook for all these fees. 19

MR. LANSAT: There is no issue with the Bar 20

Mitzvah. I think weve--Mom said there wasnt any, and 21

that--she did say that back there and if she 22

(indiscernible) she provide the details, so I dont think 23

thats an issue. 24

MS. GUCCIARDO: And your Honor, Mr. Lansat and I 25

15

were in contact with each other. Even though I was on 1

vacation, I con--I was in contact with him and said I 2

think shes on vacation-- 3

MR. LANSAT: She wrote an e-mail to that effect. 4

MS. GUCCIARDO: Right. And we texted each 5

other, and we talked. 6

MR. LANSAT: But she was in--But she was-- 7

MS. GUCCIARDO: And thats the bottom line. 8

MR. LANSAT: --in town that time, though. 9

MS. GUCCIARDO: She has--You know, she can rely 10

on her counsel to communicate with Mr. Lansat. 11

Mr. Tsimhoni failed to even contact her and say, 12

Hey, are you here in town? Im coming in. Nothing like 13

that. 14

THE COURT: (Indiscernible) I saw-- 15

MS. SPILMAN: No, thats not true. 16

THE COURT: I saw an e-mail. 17

MS. SPILMAN: They spoke on the phone-- 18

MR. TSIMHONI: I had a Skype discussion with-- 19

THE COURT: I saw something. 20

MR. TSIMHONI: --her and with the kids, and I 21

told the kids--I made the mistake of telling the kids that 22

I was going to see them. 23

MS. GUCCIARDO: And why he would do that when 24

you gave-- 25

16

MR. TSIMHONI: Because I thought I was going to 1

see them-- 2

MS. GUCCIARDO: --her the rest of the summer-- 3

MR. TSIMHONI: --cause I did not--because I did 4

not know that-- 5

MS. GUCCIARDO: --is just pure manipulation. 6

THE COURT: I agree with you, Dad. 7

MR. TSIMHONI: I did not know that they were 8

going. If I had known, Id not scheduled the-- 9


THE COURT: Mr. Lansat, if she had told you Im 11

going to the south of France for a month, and Ive already 12

bought these really expensive tickets, what would-- 13

MR. LANSAT: There would be no-- 14

THE COURT: --you have done? 15

MR. LANSAT: There would have been no issue. I 16

would have told Dad. I would have said, Dad, she bought 17

these tickets; shes given me proof; lets move on and 18

call it a day. 19

MS. GUCCIARDO: Except we were in court and we 20

put--she said that on the record, and you said you have-- 21

THE COURT: Thats why-- 22

MS. GUCCIARDO: --the rest of-- 23

THE COURT: Okay, you know what? 24

MR. TSIMHONI: With the dates? 25

17

MS. GUCCIARDO: (Indiscernible) 1

MR. TSIMHONI: With the dates? 2


THE COURT: If you are right after watching that 4

video, its a whole different story, Dad. Okay? 5

MS. GUCCIARDO: Yeah, and then I want him to pay 6

my costs. 7

THE COURT: Well see if-- 8

MS. SPILMAN: If you know the dates, tell us 9

when shes returning. If you know the specifics of her 10

itinerary, tell us what it is. 11

MS. GUCCIARDO: She--I told Mr. Lansat-- 12

MS. SPILMAN: She cant-- 13

MR. LANSAT: No, I dont know the itinerary. 14

MS. SPILMAN: --tell me because-- 15

MS. GUCCIARDO: I told Mr. Lansat-- 16

MS. SPILMAN: --she doesnt know. 17

MS. GUCCIARDO: It old Mr. Lansat when we were 18

communicating, shes going to be back the--the day 19

before school starts, which would be September 2nd or 20

September 3rd. 21

MR. LANSAT: Oh. 22

MS. GUCCIARDO: I told him that. Yes, I did. 23

THE COURT: That doesnt give the kids-- 24

MS. GUCCIARDO: I absolutely told him that. 25

18

THE COURT: --enough time to prepare for school. 1


THE COURT: That doesnt give the kids much time 3

to prepare for the jet lag and the time difference and 4

preparation for school. 5

MS. GUCCIARDO: (Indiscernible) 6

MR. LANSAT: Well, when I sent it out-- 7

MS. GUCCIARDO: (Indiscernible)-- 8

MR. LANSAT: --on the 29th or 30

th,-- 9

MS. GUCCIARDO: --and she made that decision. 10

MR. LANSAT: --Mom was in town. 11

MS. GUCCIARDO: I let him know. 12

MR. LANSAT: Mom was in town. 13

MS. GUCCIARDO: I let him know. I communicated. 14

So--And she has a right to rely on me as her attorney to 15

communicate, which I did with the GAL, extensively. 16

THE COURT: And so-- 17

MR. LANSAT: Lets look at the-- 18

MR. TSIMHONI: Have them look at the video. 19

THE COURT: Dad, you can go back and watch it, 20

too. All right. 21

MS. SPILMAN: Thank you, your Honor. 22

THE COURT: Okay. Thank you. 23

MR. HUTTON: Thank you, your Honor. 24

THE COURT: Thank you, Mr. Hutton. 25

19

(At 11:00 a.m., case passed) 1

(At 11:55 a.m., case recalled) 2

THE CLERK: The court recalls Eibschitz-Tsimhoni 3

versus Tsimhoni, case number 09-766749-DM. 4

MR. LANSAT: William Lansat, GAL, your Honor. 5

MS. GUCCIARDO: Renee Gucciardo on behalf of the 6

plaintiff. 7

MS. SPILMAN: Amy Spilman on behalf of the 8

defendant. 9

MR. HUTTON: Edward Hutton on behalf of the 10

plaintiff. 11

MS. SPILMAN: Your Honor, we did have an 12

opportunity to review the video; and nowhere in the video 13

was any specific travel dates placed on the record. It 14

was very unclear when the plaintiff will be traveling. 15

And it was also very clear that the Court said she cannot 16

go anywhere without Dad knowing when the Bar Mitzvah is, 17

where shes going, and an itinerary. And that has not 18

been provided. 19

Mr. Lansat made a statement on the record that, 20

okay, Mom could be free to go from the beginning of July 21

to the second or third week in August, as long as she 22

provides notice. Nothing specific. Nothing specific. 23

So when he sent--when my client sent Mr. Lansat 24

an e-mail on July 29th with the dates that he was looking 25

20

to come to Michigan, and Mr. Lansat sent an e-mail out the 1

very next day saying these are the dates that-- 2

THE COURT: So what do you want? 3

MS. SPILMAN: --Mr. Tsimhonis coming--I want-- 4

MS. GUCCIARDO: Oh, wait. I want to respond. 5

THE COURT: No, no, no. She gets to say what 6

she wants. 7

MS. SPILMAN: I think my client should be able 8

to-- 9

THE COURT: And then Im going to rule without 10

your response. 11


THE COURT: And then Im going to rule without 13

your response. 14

MS. SPILMAN: My client should be allowed to 15

see the children when hes here. Hes here until August 16

28th. She should be required to come back, if thats not 17

her plan, and we dont know when shes planning on coming 18

back, theres some vague representation its Labor Day. 19

But she should be required to come back so that he can 20

have parenting time here at the courthouse sometime 21

between now and August 28th or maybe he can extend his trip 22

one more day, the 29th. But he should be have--He should 23

have the opportunity to see the kids while hes here in 24

Michigan, as hed indicated that he would be. 25

21

He should be awarded attorneys fees for having 1

to argue about this again. And there should be some kind 2

of warning in the future, I suppose, if this happens yet 3

again, because saying that you are going to be somewhere 4

in the south of France is not an itinerary. 5

THE COURT: Its pretty small. 6

MS. GUCCIARDO: Your Honor, I-- 7

THE COURT: Ms. Gucciardo, what would you like 8

to--what is your response? 9

MS. GUCCIARDO: I would like you to--like to say 10

is this: We were here. We put all this on the record. 11

We talked about how long shes going to be gone. Mr. 12

Lansat--I said, Look, quite frankly, it doesnt matter if 13

shes gone for eight weeks because he doesnt live in the 14

United States of America. Mr. Lansat said, yes, she could 15

be gone--she should have until the second or third week in 16

August, that should be free for her; and you said, You 17

know what, if he--she can have as long as she wants; if 18

hes going to be gone for a year, she can have all of that 19

time. Thats what you said. So she relied upon that. 20

Now, this is really interest--When--After we 21

were in court, on June 10th I sent Ms. Middleditch an 22

e-mail and I said this is my third e-mail today advising 23

you that Omer still has not provided the documents for 24

Maya to obtain the childrens passports. It goes on and 25

22

on. We talk about regarding the Bar Mitzvah. Talk about 1

what the plans are for that. And then I say, Maya is 2

going to be staying at Lago di Garda, as she has done in 3

the prior years. Shell arrange an international access 4

to her phone number, and I state the phone number, so that 5

Omer may call the children, just as he has been able to do 6

in the past. I sent that to Mr. Lansat. I sent it to Ms. 7

Middleditch. Neither one of them say, Not specific 8

enough; dont like this information. In fact, Ms. 9

Middleditchs response that same day was, I forwarded your 10

request to my client. End of story. 11

THE COURT: Did it say when shes coming back? 12

MS. GUCCIARDO: No, but let me finish. 13

MS. SPILMAN: No. 14

MS. GUCCIARDO: So, she was supposed to go in 15

June. You made her change her plans to accommodate Mr. 16

Tsimhonis plans, even though we had sent our notice on 17

May 1st and they didnt send their notice until May 3rd. 18

You said Mom can change her plans. We did. She changed 19

her plans. Her dad, as you know, is dying, was too sick 20

to meet them, so they had to move him back. 21

THE COURT: Is he in the south of France? I 22

mean, did he die? 23

MS. GUCCIARDO: No. Thank God hes still alive. 24

THE COURT: Thank goodness. When--Where--Does 25

23

he live in the south of France? 1

MS. SPILMAN: No. 2

MS. GUCCIARDO: He lives in Israel. 3

MS. SPILMAN: And that was Italy. 4

THE COURT: So was he in south of France? 5

MS. SPILMAN: That trip was to Italy. 6

MS. GUCCIARDO: So, in any event,-- 7

THE COURT: Nice traveling. 8

MS. GUCCIARDO: In any event, she said then with 9

the whole war in Israel, everything going on, he couldnt 10

get out. 11

When this thing came in, I talked to Mr. Lansat, 12

after I spoke with her, and she--and I advised Mr. Lansat 13

shes going to be leaving. And I said she will be back on 14

September 1st. I said I believe that she is leaving August 15

seventh, whatever day it was, I said shes leaving the 16

next day. Whatever day Mr. Lansat and I spoke. And I 17

said shes coming back September 1st. I notified him of 18

that. And it was clear about this whole thing because you 19

had said she can have-- 20

THE COURT: Did you notify them? 21

MS. GUCCIARDO: --as much time as she wants. 22

MS. SPILMAN: This was after-- 23

MS. GUCCIARDO: Mr. Lansat was going-- 24

You know, I didnt interrupt. 25

24

MS. SPILMAN: Only a few times. 1

MS. GUCCIARDO: Mr. Lansat was the one that we 2

were talking to about this whole thing because Dad gave 3

late notice, not in conformance with the March order, 4

which indicated how-- 5

THE COURT: Two days. 6


THE COURT: Were way past that two-day thing. 8

MS. GUCCIARDO: But the bottom line is we were 9

communicating with Mr. Lansat about this. I provided 10

this. 11

Then on Sunday Ms. Tsimhoni provided the 12

itinerary. And again this morning she provided an 13

additional itinerary telling-- 14

THE COURT: Way too late. 15

MS. GUCCIARDO: --what dates she was going to 16

be. There was no requirement-- 17

MS. SPILMAN: No, she didnt. 18

MS. GUCCIARDO: Yes, she did. 19

MS. SPILMAN: No, she didnt. 20

MS. GUCCIARDO: August 13th. I can pull it up 21

right now. 22

MS. SPILMAN: She said were at-- 23

MS. GUCCIARDO: You know what? 24

MS. SPILMAN: --this village, at this hotel in a 25

25

village-- 1

MS. GUCCIARDO: She gave it right now-- 2

MS. SPILMAN: --She did not say-- 3

MS. GUCCIARDO: You didnt say she has to say on 4

this day, Im going to be here, on this day. You said, 5

you know, give an itinerary. Were giving where shes at. 6

Thats all we have to do. They are divorced. He doesnt 7

need to know, okay, at one oclock were going to be 8

playing catch, at three oclock were going to be going on 9

a boat ride. Thats ridiculous. 10

THE COURT: Thats not (indiscernible) 11

MS. GUCCIARDO: We gave the dates. 12

MR. LANSAT: (Indiscernible) ask you for that. 13

MS. GUCCIARDO: Well, what is an itinerary? 14

MR. LANSAT: Okay. 15

MS. GUCCIARDO: We gave the dates. 16

MR. LANSAT: No, the itinerary--Okay, all I want 17

from this woman is one thing: When is she leaving and 18

when is she coming back? Okay,-- 19

MS. SPILMAN: And where is she going? 20

MS. GUCCIARDO: I told you. 21

MR. LANSAT: --Ms. Gucciardo says September 2nd. 22

Id like to see-- 23

THE COURT: And where is she going. 24

MR. LANSAT: --some proof from Mother that she 25

26

has got a plane reservation coming back on the second 1

because -- 2

MS. GUCCIARDO: The first. 3

MR. LANSAT: Whatever. I dont believe Mother. 4

How do you not--Thats what an itinerary is. All we 5

needed was just a copy of the flight information. Did you 6

book tickets? This is overseas travel. We dont care 7

what they do during the day. 8

THE COURT: The Court is ordering for her to 9

show proof of when she purchased these tickets. 10

MR. LANSAT: And when shes coming back. 11

THE COURT: And then I will reserve your--Dad, I 12

will reserve your request for your attorney fees, based on 13

when she purchased those tickets. 14

Also, that itinerary was completely lacking, so 15

Dad is entitled to something for that. So maybe half--16

half of the attorney fees for now, and the other half if 17

those attorney fees--if the tickets were purchased . . . 18

MR. LANSAT: I dont know when they were 19

purchased. 20

THE COURT: Well, depending on when the tickets 21

were purchased, youll get the other half. 22

Dad, I can order Mom to come back right now. I 23

can. Whats today? Todays the 13th? I can order her to 24

come back. Lets say give her seven notice--seven-days 25

27

notice so that its not costing probably $20,000 to change 1

the tickets. Which is going to do what? It is going to 2

make Mom very, very angry. Im assuming that anger would 3

go--trickle down to the children, who probably are--I have 4

to say probably enjoying themselves in south of France. 5

So its in your--The balls in your court right now. Do 6

you want me to do that? 7


THE COURT: I know you want to see your kids. 9

You know that I feel for you. I know you know that. 10

Do you want to talk to your counsel? 11

MR. TSIMHONI: I want to hear--I would like to 12

hear her response for my request to return a few days 13

early. Thats all. 14

MR. LANSAT: It could all be resolved, Judge, 15

really, and not have to make Mom come back-- 16

MR. TSIMHONI: She cant become more angry-- 17

MR. LANSAT: If-- 18

MR. TSIMHONI: --than she is already with me. 19

MR. LANSAT: If we just knew-- 20

THE COURT: Yes, she can. 21

MR. LANSAT: --if we knew that she actually 22

purchased tickets to come back and what date, which I 23

think-- 24

THE COURT: Lets see when she-- 25

28

MR. LANSAT: --is probable-- 1

THE COURT: --purchased the tickets and what 2

date. 3

MR. LANSAT: I think its probably an open thing 4

to come back. Thats what I suspect. 5

THE COURT: We can come back. You know, it 6

doesnt have to be on a busy Wednesday. 7

MS. GUCCIARDO: As soon as I get it from her-- 8

THE COURT: I mean the Court always appreciates 9

all-- 10

MS. GUCCIARDO: --Ill try to-- 11

THE COURT: --of you being here. 12

MS. SPILMAN: There should be a deadline, your 13

Honor. I mean, it should be next week or sooner. 14

THE COURT: Oh, no, sooner. It wouldnt take 15

long to get the information when you purchased those 16

tickets and the dates youre coming back with proof. 17

MS. SPILMAN: My client, I think,-- 18

MR. TSIMHONI: Your Honor,-- 19

MS. SPILMAN: --would still like some 20

opportunity to see the kids. I mean,-- 21

MS. GUCCIARDO: She has tickets to come back. 22

Look, the ord--what you clearly said was she can be gone 23

for a year if hes not coming back next year. 24

MR. LANSAT: I thought Mr. Lansat on the record 25

29

said till the second week of August or-- 1

MS. GUCCIARDO: But then you, and youre the 2

judge, you said she can be gone for a year if hes not 3

coming back for a year. It doesnt matter. 4

MS. SPILMAN: But that doesnt mean-- 5

MR. TSIMHONI: But I am back. 6

THE COURT: But he is back. 7

MR. TSIMHONI: But I am back. 8

MS. GUCCIARDO: So she can rely upon that. 9


MS. GUCCIARDO: I know, but she didnt know 11

that. That was-- 12

MR. TSIMHONI: So a year? 13

MS. GUCCIARDO: --that--You said that back on 14

June 4th-- 15

MR. TSIMHONI: For a full year Im not to-- 16

MS. GUCCIARDO: You said that. 17

MR. TSIMHONI: --see the kids? Is that you 18

want? 19

MS. SPILMAN: I dont think it would be-- 20

MS. GUCCIARDO: You know what? 21

MS. SPILMAN: --acceptable. I-- 22

MS. GUCCIARDO: Thats what the-- 23

MS. SPILMAN: --dont think she would-- 24

MS. GUCCIARDO: --Court said-- 25

30

MS. SPILMAN: --have the right to say-- 1

MS. GUCCIARDO: --so if she-- 2

MS. SPILMAN: --Im going to be gone for a year 3

and no one would do anything about that. 4

MS. GUCCIARDO: No kidding. The point being is 5

because he doesnt live in the United States, she could be 6

gone for as long as he--as she wants because--And Ms. 7

Middleditch said, I agree. Thats what his attorney said. 8

I agree. She can be gone for as long-- 9

THE COURT: If-- 10

MS. GUCCIARDO: --as she wants, so-- 11

THE COURT: If hes not coming back. 12

MS. GUCCIARDO: --if she has-- 13


MS. GUCCIARDO: If she has already purchased-- 15

THE COURT: And he gave-- 16

MS. GUCCIARDO: --those tickets-- 17

THE COURT: --he gave lots of notice. 18

MS. GUCCIARDO: But if she purchased the tickets 19

before that, then its irrelevant. 20

MR. LANSAT: Lets see when the tickets were 21

purchased, but more important, when--if a return date was 22

purchased. And if she has a return date on it, then we 23

can deal with it. And if she doesnt, then that may 24

change the Court in having her come back sooner. May be 25

31

no point in-- 1

THE COURT: Well, just-- 2

MR. LANSAT: --her coming back sooner. 3

THE COURT: But all I know is this: The last--4

On page two of the order, it says mom is not permitted to 5

travel outside of the country unless she provides Liams 6

Bar Mitzvah information details to father. 7

MS. GUCCIARDO: I did that back on June 10th. I 8

just read that into the record, and he said-- 9

THE COURT: Oh, Im sorry, I missed-- 10

MS. GUCCIARDO: --there was no objection. 11

THE COURT: I missed that part. 12

MS. GUCCIARDO: Okay. 13

MR. LANSAT: The Bar Mitzvah issue was dealt 14

with. 15

THE COURT: Julie was talking. 16

MS. GUCCIARDO: Nice one, Julie. 17

THE CLERK: Sorry. 18

MS. SPILMAN: I think wed also need to know if 19

these were tickets that were originally purchased in June 20

and she just redirected the travel. We would want to know 21

when that travel change was made. 22

THE COURT: All of it. Every single thing the 23

Court--she has to provide. 24

MR. LANSAT: Make a copy of your itinerary from 25

32

your--from the ticket. Its so simple. 1

THE COURT: That will be determinate. Thatll 2

make a big difference in the Courts ruling on attorney 3

fees, if any, and-- 4

MS. GUCCIARDO: And attorney fees for me. 5

THE COURT: Thats what Im saying. 6

MS. GUCCIARDO: Yeah, okay. Good. I want-- 7

THE COURT: And for anybody--anyone-- 8

MS. GUCCIARDO: --to reserve for me-- 9

THE COURT: --anyone,-- 10

MS. GUCCIARDO: --because this is ridiculous. 11

THE COURT: --if appropriate. 12

MS. SPILMAN: How could she be entitled to 13

attorney fees when she had never provided an itinerary in 14

the first place? I mean, that goes without saying. 15

THE COURT: Lets just say Mom can show an 16

e-mail that she said, Dad, Im going to be going here on 17

Monday; and on Tuesday, were going to travel to Paris; on 18

Thursday, were going to go to Quebec; and on Friday, 19

were going to Asia, and just travel the world with these 20

three kids until--and come back the day before school 21

starts, all ready, nobodys going to have jet lag, 22

nobodys going to have any problem with times-- 23

MR. LANSAT: Its-- 24

THE COURT: --the massive difference in time-- 25

33

MS. GUCCIARDO: She said to me, Im coming back 1

the day before school starts. 2

MR. LANSAT: On a Monday? 3

MS. GUCCIARDO: Im telling you-- 4

THE COURT: Well, thats what were going to 5

see. 6

MS. GUCCIARDO: --what she said to me. So, you 7

know,-- 8

MR. LANSAT: School starts Tuesday? 9

MS. GUCCIARDO: --I mean, look, these people are 10

used to traveling back and forth internationally-- 11

THE COURT: So--Right, so-- 12

MS. GUCCIARDO: --so its her kids. I mean, she 13

can make that determination-- 14

MR. LANSAT: Well, its both their children. 15

Theres a mother and a dad-- 16

MS. GUCCIARDO: Yeah, I get that. 17

MR. LANSAT: --and, you know,-- 18

MS. SPILMAN: I would also like to reserve the 19

request that she be required to return early,-- 20

THE COURT: Of course. 21

MS. SPILMAN: --because if these were plans-- 22

THE COURT: Of course. I agree-- 23

MS. SPILMAN: --that were made after-- 24

THE COURT: --with you. 25

34

MS. SPILMAN: --the July 29th e-mail, and that 1

was purposely-- 2

THE COURT: Then shes coming back. 3

MS. SPILMAN: --meant to frustrate his time. 4

THE COURT: Then the kids are coming back the 5

next day. And they can enjoy the entire time with Dad. 6

MS. GUCCIARDO: Im sure thatll make things 7

even better for them. 8

MR. TSIMHONI: Cant be much worse than-- 9

MS. GUCCIARDO: Oh, sure. 10


MS. GUCCIARDO: Theyll get along swimmingly. 12

MR. LANSAT: Ill repraecipe my motion, then, to 13

I dont know when-- 14

MS. GUCCIARDO: I want Ms.-- 15

MR. LANSAT: --but Ill repraecipe it. 16

MS. GUCCIARDO: --Eibschitz here, like you had 17

ruled before, for his motion, so she can hear everything 18

thats going on-- 19

MR. LANSAT: Thats fine. I told Ms. Gucciardo 20

-- 21

MS. GUCCIARDO: Its not fair-- 22

THE COURT: Granted. 23

MR. LANSAT: I agree. Thats fine. 24

MS. GUCCIARDO: Thank you. 25

35

MR. LANSAT: Ill move it. It was never on 1

anyways, apparently. 2

THE COURT: But-- 3

MS. GUCCIARDO: But, quite frankly,-- 4

THE COURT: --were going to-- 5

MS. GUCCIARDO: --I know that theyre not 6

allowed to get DVDs but I would like Ms. Eibschitz to be 7

able to-- 8

THE COURT: Review it. 9

MS. GUCCIARDO: --review todays proceedings, so 10

that she can see everything that takes place. 11

THE COURT: That would be fabulous. I would 12

like that, too. 13

MS. SPILMAN: And when is the-- 14

THE COURT: Shes not going to get-- 15

MS. GUCCIARDO: She can come back and watch it. 16

THE COURT: Mr. Lansat, were you listening? She 17

can review it. 18

MR. LANSAT: I apologize. 19

THE COURT: She can review it anytime. 20

MR. LANSAT: Right. 21

MS. SPILMAN: And when should she be providing 22

this information by? At least by Wednesday. Ill 23

repraecipe this for next Wednesday. 24

THE COURT: Well, you can--Ms.--It doesnt have 25

36

to be on a Wednesday. It can be anytime. It can be the 1

next day. 2

MS. SPILMAN: Okay. Then by tomorrow. 3

THE COURT: Well squish you in. 4

I dont know if shes going to be able to do, I 5

mean, with the time change and-- 6

MS. GUCCIARDO: I dont know if shes going to 7

be able to do it, either. And I dont know-- 8

THE COURT: I dont think she could do it-- 9

MS. GUCCIARDO: --if shes going to be able to 10

scan it and-- 11

THE COURT: --just do it in one day,-- 12

MS. GUCCIARDO: --and do all that-- 13

THE COURT: --so maybe-- 14

MS. SPILMAN: Well,-- 15

THE COURT: --three days? 16

MS. GUCCIARDO: How about by Monday? 17

MR. LANSAT: Lets just get an order in place 18

exactly what information specifically we want from Mother, 19

and well be back again. 20

THE COURT: Be very detailed. 21

MS. GUCCIARDO: And provide it by Monday? 22

THE COURT: That works. 23

Is that it? 24

MS. GUCCIARDO: Thank you, your Honor. 25

37


THE COURT: Thank you. 2

MR. HUTTON: Thank you. 3

THE COURT: Thank you, Mr. Hutton. 4

(At 12:09 p.m., proceedings concluded) 5

* * * * * *6

38

STATE OF MICHIGAN )

COUNTY OF OAKLAND ) ss.

I certify that this transcript is a true and accurate

transcription to the best of my ability of the proceeding in

this case before the Honorable Lisa Gorcyca, as recorded by the

clerk.

Proceedings were recorded and provided to this

transcriptionist by the Circuit Court and this certified

reporter accepts no responsibility for any events that occurred

during the above proceedings, for any inaudible and/or

indiscernible responses by any person or party involved in the

proceeding or for the content of the recording provided.

Dated: September 1, 2014

___/S/ Susan G. Johnson_______________

Susan G. Johnson, CER 3511

tsimhonivtsimhoni8-13-14-150714172018-lva1-app6892

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