Transcript of the Testimony of - Budge &...

Transcript of the Testimony of

SARA GONZALESOctober 11, 2016

The Estate of John Patrick Walter vs.

Correctional Healthcare Companies, Inc., et al.

Annette Norris, RPR

Annette Norris, RPRHansen and Company, Inc.Registered Professional Reporters

1600 Broadway, Ste. 470Denver, Colorado 80202

Phone (303) 691-0202 * Fax (303) 691-2444

The Estate of John Patrick Walter SARA GONZALESCorrectional Healthcare Companies, Inc., et al. October 11, 2016

(303) 691-0202 * (303) 691-2444Hansen & Company, Inc. Registered Professional Reporters

Page 1

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE STATE OF COLORADO

No. 2:16-cv-00629-WJM-MJW_______________________________________________________

DEPOSITION OF: SARA GONZALES - October 11, 2011_______________________________________________________

THE ESTATE OF JOHN PATRICK WALTER, BY AND THROUGH ITSSPECIAL ADMINISTRATOR, DESIREE Y. KLODNICKI,

PLAINTIFF,

V.

CORRECTIONAL HEALTHCARE COMPANIES, INC., ET AL.,

DEFENDANTS._______________________________________________________

PURSUANT TO NOTICE AND AGREEMENT, THE

DEPOSITION OF SARA GONZALES was taken on behalf of the

Plaintiff, at 615 Macon Avenue, Room 207, Canon City,

Colorado, on October 11, 2011, at 9:04 a.m., before

Annette Norris, Registered Professional Reporter and

Notary Public within Colorado.



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1 A P P E A R A N C E S

2 For the Plaintiff: EDWIN S. BUDGE, ESQ. Budge & Heipt, P.L.L.C.

3 705 Second Avenue Suite 910

4 Seattle, Washington 98104 (206) 624-3060

5 [email protected]

6 For the CHC C. GREGORY TIEMEIER, ESQ.Defendants: Tiemeier & Stich, P.C.

7 1000 East 16th Avenue Denver, CO 80218

8 (720) 473-7525 [email protected]

9For the Individual WILLIAM T. O'CONNELL III, ESQ.

10 Defendants - FCSO Wells, Anderson & Race, LLCPersonnel: 1700 Broadway

11 Suite 1020 Denver, CO 80290

12 (303) 830-1212 [email protected]

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1 I N D E X

2 PAGEEXAMINATION OF SARA GONZALES:

3 October 11, 2016

4 By Mr. Budge: 6, 181By Mr. Tiemeier: 147

5

6 INITIALDEPOSITION EXHIBITS REFERENCE

7Exhibit 1 Exit Interview (FCSO 002005) 10

8Exhibit 2 FCSO Training Records (FCSO 28

9 001206 - 207)

10 Exhibit 3 Timesheets (FCSO 000226 & 284) 36

11 Exhibit 4 Hand-drawn diagram by deponent 39

12 Exhibit 5 Defendants' Responses to 48 Plaintiff's First Discovery

13 Requests to: Individual Defendants - FCSO Detention

14 Personnel

15 Exhibit 6 FSCO Pre-Admission Medical Screen 66 (FCSO 000089 - 90)

16Exhibit 7 FCSO Inmate Property List Report 69

17 ( FCSO 000020)

18 Exhibit 8 FCSO Medical Questionnaire (FCSO 70 000014)

19Exhibit 9 Health Care Policies & Procedures 74

20 E-02 (CHC P&P) 000128 - 32)

21 Exhibit 10 Health Care Policies & Procedures 80 E-04 (CHC P&P 000128 - 32)

22Exhibit 11 Fremont County Detention Center 85

23 Inmate welfare check list (FCSO 000029 - 35)

24Exhibit 12 FCSO Inmate Notes (FCSO 000025 - 102

25 27)



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1 I N D E X (Continued)]

2 Exhibit 13 FCSO Jail Incident (FSCO 000062) 109

3 Exhibit 14 Excerpt of transcript of Charlene 124 Combs

4Exhibit 15 Autopsy photograph 140





















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1 I N D E X (Continued)

2 Exhibit 36 Autopsy photograph 140









11 (Attached to original transcript.)

12PREVIOUSLY MARKED DEPOSITION INITIAL

13 EXHIBITS: REFERENCE(None)

14INFORMATION REQUESTED:

15 (None)

16 QUESTIONS INSTRUCTED NOT TO ANSWER:(None)

17

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1 P R O C E E D I N G S

2 WHEREUPON, the following proceedings were

3 taken pursuant to the Federal Rules of Civil

4 Procedure.

5 SARA GONZALES,

6 having been first duly sworn to state the whole truth,

7 testified as follows:

8 EXAMINATION

9 BY MR. BUDGE:

10 Q. Would you please state your name for the

11 record.

12 A. Sara Gonzales.

13 Q. Were you formerly known as Sara Lightcap?

14 A. Yes, sir.

15 Q. When did your name change from Sara Lightcap

16 to Sara Gonzales?

17 A. July 9, 2014.

18 Q. And you are married, then?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. So if from time to time I slip up and call

21 you Miss Lightcap, please forgive me. I'm used to

22 looking at some of the documents and materials that you

23 created when you were known as Sara Lightcap.

24 A. Okay.

25 Q. During your deposition today, I'm going to be



Page 7

1 asking you a series of questions, and my questions and

2 your answers are going to be transcribed by the court

3 reporter, who's sitting to your left, so there is a

4 permanent record of these proceedings. Do you

5 understand that?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. And do you also understand that you are under

8 oath just as you would be if you were in a court of

9 law?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. If at any time you do not understand my

12 question or are unclear about what I'm asking, please

13 ask me to clarify it or rephrase it for you, and I

14 will. Okay?

15 A. Okay.

16 Q. Is there any reason that you can think of,

17 such as medication or any other reason, why you would

18 not be able to give your best testimony today?

19 A. No, sir.

20 Q. As I understand it, you were first hired by

21 the Fremont County Sheriff's Office November of 2013.

22 Is that your recollection as well?

23 A. I believe I was actually hired in December.

24 Q. Of which year?

25 A. 2013.



Page 8

1 Q. And were you hired to be a detention deputy

2 at the Fremont County jail?

3 A. Yes, sir.

4 Q. Sometimes during this deposition I'll refer

5 to the Fremont County detention center as the Fremont

6 County jail. If you are ever unclear or confused about

7 what I mean, you ask me, okay?

8 A. Okay.

9 Q. Before being hired by the Fremont County

10 Sheriff's Office as a detention deputy in approximately

11 December of 2013, had you ever worked in any aspects of

12 corrections before?

13 A. No, sir.

14 Q. Either before or after you were hired by the

15 Fremont County Sheriff's Office as a detention deputy,

16 did you go to any type of corrections academy?

17 A. No, sir.

18 Q. Before being hired by the Fremont County

19 Sheriff's Office, you had worked at Big Bear Wine &

20 Liquor earning about 8.50 an hour; is that right?

21 A. Yes, sir.

22 Q. And before that you had worked at Applebee's?

23 A. Yes, sir.

24 Q. And before that at Office Depot for a few

25 months?



Page 9

1 A. Yes, sir.

2 Q. And before that Carl's Jr.?

3 A. Yes, sir.

4 Q. And did you have any training, experience of

5 any kind in law enforcement or corrections?

6 A. Before?

7 Q. Before being hired by Fremont County.

8 A. No, sir.

9 Q. Had you worked in any capacity in a jail or

10 detention facility?

11 A. Before?

12 Q. Yes.

13 A. No, sir.

14 Q. Were you a probationary employee for the

15 first year of your employment with Fremont County?

16 A. Yes, sir.

17 Q. So as of April of 2014, you had been working

18 at the Fremont County Sheriff's Office for about four

19 or five months; is that right?

20 A. Yes, sir.

21 Q. And you were still a probationary employee as

22 of February 2014?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. The records suggest you left the Fremont

25 County Sheriff's Office in approximately October of



Page 10

1 2014. Is that also consistent with your recollection?

2 A. I believe it was closer to the end of

3 September, maybe.

4 Q. Of 2015?

5 A. Yes, sir.

6 Q. So in total you would estimate that you

7 worked at the Fremont County Sheriff's Office as a

8 detention deputy for 9 or 10 months?

9 A. Yes, sir.

10 Q. During the deposition I will be handing you

11 exhibits from time to time. And you will get used to

12 the process. These are various papers that I may be

13 asking you about. And the first document I'm going to

14 hand you is marked as Exhibit 1 to your deposition. Do

15 you find Exhibit 1 to be your Exit Interview upon

16 leaving the Fremont County Sheriff's Office?

17 A. Yes, sir.

18 Q. And that's your handwriting and signature?

19 A. Yes, sir.

20 Q. If I could just direct your attention to the

21 question that was asked of you on your way out the

22 door, so to speak: Was your job the way you thought it

23 would be after hearing it described in your hiring

24 interview. And I believe your answer is "50/50. There

25 was no description of dealing with sick/crippled



Page 11

1 inmates, nor was there training."

2 Did I read that correctly?

3 A. Yes, sir.

4 Q. Is it true that you received no training on

5 dealing with inmates who might be suffering from

6 illnesses or physical disabilities?

7 A. That is true.

8 Q. And you also had no training in responding to

9 or addressing the needs of inmates experiencing

10 significant medical conditions, correct?

11 A. Correct.

12 Q. And you had no training on responding to or

13 addressing needs of inmates experiencing significant

14 mental health conditions, correct?

15 A. Correct.

16 Q. You also described that the training was poor

17 in your Exit Interview --

18 A. Uh-huh.

19 Q. -- is that right?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. And you state that you received a lot of "I

22 don't know" answers. Tell me what you mean by that.

23 A. Generally any questions that I had that I was

24 unsure of, I would ask a supervisor, and their response

25 would be "I don't know."



Page 12

1 Q. Was that regularly the case with pretty much

2 all the supervisors that you worked for?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Including corporals and sergeants?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Who were the corporals and sergeants that you

7 reported to while you worked at Fremont County?

8 A. My direct corporal was Dustin Maas, and my

9 direct sergeant was Justin Green.

10 Q. And was Corporal Maas and Sergeant Green the

11 two supervisors to whom you regularly reported during

12 the regular course of your duties as a detention

13 deputy?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Were they two of the officers who regularly

16 said "I don't know" whenever you had a question?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Was that frustrating to you?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Could you tell me a little bit more about the

21 frustration that you experienced in getting answers to

22 your questions as it pertained to your work as a

23 detention deputy.

24 A. It's hard to grow into that field when the

25 people who have been there for a little while are



Page 13

1 unsure of the answer I'm looking for in order to help

2 me become better in my position.

3 Q. Were they unsure about how to deal with

4 inmates who might be suffering from illnesses or

5 physical disabilities?

6 A. Sometimes.

7 Q. And were they also unclear in response to

8 your questions about responding to medical needs of

9 inmates?

10 A. Sometimes.

11 Q. Were they also unclear in response to your

12 questions -- or unsure, I should say, about how to

13 address inmates with mental disabilities?

14 A. Sometimes.

15 Q. Did you ever seek to gain clarification or

16 better answers from other supervisors besides

17 Corporal Maas and Sergeant Green?

18 A. Not really, no.

19 Q. Why was that?

20 A. I usually never saw them. They would go

21 straight to a meeting right away, and by the time shift

22 change was done and over, they were still in their

23 meeting and I couldn't wait around.

24 Q. Did you ever seek to go to anybody above

25 them, such as Commander Rankin or Undersheriff Martin



Page 14

1 or Sheriff Beicker, in order to gain answers to the

2 questions that you had about your duties?

3 A. No.

4 Q. Why was that?

5 A. I never saw them. Sending them e-mails,

6 usually they didn't answer them anyway. And I don't

7 know if that was in part of them getting a lot of

8 e-mails, but I never went to them personally.

9 Q. Did you send e-mails to supervisors from time

10 to time trying to get answers to questions that you

11 had?

12 A. From time to time, yes.

13 Q. And you didn't get answers to those?

14 A. No.

15 Q. Did you ever e-mail with Sheriff Beicker?

16 A. No.

17 Q. Undersheriff Martin?

18 A. Once.

19 Q. Commander Rankin?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. What were the types of things that you would

22 e-mail commander Rankin about where he would not

23 respond to you?

24 A. I don't remember.

25 Q. What do you mean in your Exit Interview,



Page 15

1 Miss Gonzales, where you said that "I learned more from

2 inmates than actual staff"?

3 A. A lot of the inmates were in and out of jail

4 enough that they knew the policies, and if they were to

5 overhear a question, usually they could answer it on

6 the spot faster than the person I'm working with.

7 Q. So you were actually getting better direction

8 in terms of jail policy and procedure from the inmates

9 instead of from your supervisors?

10 A. At times, yes.

11 Q. And what about when it came to issues

12 concerning how to deal with inmates with medical,

13 mental health conditions, physical disabilities and so

14 on; did inmates sometimes know more than the

15 corrections supervisors?

16 A. I never spoke about medical stuff in front of

17 other inmates.

18 Q. Did you ever interact directly with medical

19 staff at the jail?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Okay. We'll talk about that a little bit

22 more in a minute.

23 A. Okay.

24 Q. What did you mean in your Exit Interview when

25 you said, "Some supervisors played on their phone while



Page 16

1 others actually helped"?

2 A. There were supervisors who could be found

3 sitting back in the sergeant's office using their cell

4 phone, I guess to pass time, versus being up and

5 interacting with those of us who are line level.

6 Q. Okay. Do you now work at the El Paso County

7 jail in Colorado Springs?

8 A. No, sir.

9 Q. Did you go to the El Paso jail in Colorado

10 Springs after you worked as a detention deputy at

11 Fremont County?

12 A. No, sir.

13 Q. Okay. Did you work in corrections after

14 Fremont County?

15 A. Yes, sir.

16 Q. Where did you work?

17 A. I worked for Pueblo County Sheriff's Office.

18 Q. Pueblo. I'm sorry.

19 On the subject of medical -- do you work as a

20 detention deputy at Pueblo County?

21 A. Yes, sir.

22 Q. What's the approximate inmate population at

23 the jail where you work?

24 A. 750 to 800.

25 Q. On the subject of inmate medical needs and



Page 17

1 inmate medical care, how would you describe the

2 training that you received at your job at Pueblo County

3 compared to the training you received in connection

4 with the job at Fremont County?

5 A. It's much better.

6 Q. In what ways?

7 A. I actually received, like, a CPR training

8 certificate through Pueblo County so that if -- in a

9 major event, before medical could get there, I could

10 step in.

11 Q. Were you taught in connection with your job

12 at Pueblo County about what to do if inmates had

13 significant medical needs or appeared to be in need of

14 medical care?

15 A. As far as?

16 Q. What to do.

17 A. Yes and no.

18 Q. Would you describe your training on that

19 subject superior at Pueblo County compared to Fremont

20 County?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Vastly superior?

23 A. Uh-huh.

24 Q. Yes?

25 A. Yes.



Page 18

1 Q. At the El -- at the Pueblo County jail, I

2 should say, how would you compare the responsiveness of

3 the medical staff and their attention to inmate medical

4 needs compared to what you observed of Medical's

5 responsiveness and attention to inmate medical needs at

6 Fremont County jail?

7 A. Pueblo County is much more responsive than

8 Fremont County was.

9 Q. Okay. Help me understand in what ways --

10 that is, contrast, if you would -- Pueblo County

11 compared to Fremont County when it comes to Medical's

12 responsiveness to inmate medical needs.

13 A. We -- with Pueblo County, we have a 24-hour

14 medical team. There is always somebody there. And

15 it's not just one person. There's actually a number of

16 medical staff with Pueblo County. So in an instant,

17 they can arrive to take care of the situation, instead

18 of me waiting to figure out what to do.

19 Q. And how did that contrast with Fremont

20 County?

21 A. I'm sorry, what do you mean?

22 Q. How does the situation with regard to the

23 provision of medical services at Pueblo County contrast

24 to what you experienced it to be at Fremont County?

25 A. I still don't get it. I'm sorry.



Page 19

1 Q. Well, for example, you were saying there was

2 24-hour care at Pueblo County.

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Was there 24-hour care at Fremont County?

5 A. No. No.

6 Q. It was 12 hour a day?

7 A. Just about. Sometimes they would leave

8 early, sometimes they might stay late.

9 Q. Okay. And in what other ways does the

10 medical care or the responsiveness of Medical to inmate

11 medical needs at Pueblo County appear to you to be

12 superior to how it was at Fremont County?

13 A. Whenever an inmate has an issue, usually the

14 medical staff with Pueblo takes care of it at that

15 moment. Pueblo County, they do set up the inmates with

16 a provider a lot faster than Fremont County did.

17 Q. Did you find at Fremont County that inmates

18 experiencing medical needs sometimes did not have their

19 medical needs addressed?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. And did you find that they sometimes went for

22 a long period of time without having their medical

23 needs addressed where it appeared to you, as a

24 layperson, that they were in need of medical care?

25 A. Yes.



Page 20

1 MR. O'CONNELL: Objection to form.

2 MR. TIEMEIER: Can we have the same thing we

3 did before in terms of objections?

4 MR. BUDGE: Yes.

5 MR. TIEMEIER: Thanks.

6 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) Who were the medical personnel

7 who were actually at the jail at Fremont County when

8 you worked there?

9 A. There was Kathy Maestas, Stephanie Repshire

10 and Monica Doughty.

11 Q. What were your general observations,

12 from what you observed, about Kathy Maestas's, for lack

13 of a better term, attentiveness to inmate medical

14 needs?

15 A. She did her job, but she had an attitude

16 toward her job. Um. The very few times I did work

17 with her, she was very rude with the inmates.

18 Q. And what was it about her specifically in

19 terms of her attitude or demeanor, as you observed it,

20 that leads you to say she was very rude?

21 A. It could have been the way she was talking to

22 them that day, or it could have been her moments where

23 she did ignore some of the inmates.

24 Q. Did you see her ignore inmates who were

25 trying to express medical needs to her?



Page 21

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Was that distressing to you?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Did you see her adopt a dismissive attitude

5 towards inmates who were attempting to express the need

6 for medical care?

7 A. Yes.


9 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) Was that frustrating for you

10 to observe?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. What about Stephanie Repshire; how would you

13 describe her demeanor toward the inmates who needed

14 medical care, as you observed it?

15 A. Stephanie was more attentive and she was more

16 personable with the inmates, but she would have her

17 days where she would be crass with them as well.

18 Q. Did you also observe her from time to time

19 being rude towards the inmates?

20 A. Once or twice.

21 Q. Did you observe her similarly, as with

22 Maestas, sometimes ignore or be dismissive towards

23 inmates who were expressing a need for medical care?

24 A. No.

25 Q. How would you contrast Monica Doughty with



Page 22

1 regard to what you observed about her demeanor and

2 attitude towards inmates as compared to Kathy Maestas?

3 A. Monica altogether was awesome. She took care

4 of the inmates and she took her time with them and

5 helped them as needed.

6 Q. And compare her to Kathy Maestas, as you

7 observed it.

8 A. Black and white.

9 Q. Was Kathy Maestas, the -- as you understood

10 it, the supervisor of the medical -- the group, so to

11 speak?

12 A. As it was explained to me, she was the head

13 nurse, so yes.

14 Q. And where did you gain that understanding

15 from?

16 A. That was just what I had learned from my

17 trainer.

18 Q. And your trainer was who?

19 A. Randy Cullen.

20 Q. Did you ever talk to anybody in general terms

21 in the supervisory staff at the Fremont County jail

22 about any concerns you had with regard to Kathy

23 Maestas's demeanor and attitude towards inmates who

24 were expressing medical needs?




Page 23

1 A. I'm sorry, will you rephrase it? It was kind

2 of long.

3 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) Did you ever seek out

4 supervisory staff for the purpose of expressing any

5 concerns you had about Kathy Maestas?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Who did you seek out and what did you

8 communicate to that person or those persons?

9 A. I would go through my chain of command, so

10 usually Corporal Maas was the first person I would

11 speak with.

12 Q. Okay.

13 A. And I would let him know that Kathy would

14 have her moments with inmates that were rude.

15 Q. So Kathy's demeanor toward the inmates, as

16 you observed it, was concerning enough that you brought

17 concerns to your corporal about her?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. And what was it specifically, if you can

20 recall, without using the exact words of course, that

21 you said in substance to Corporal Maas about

22 Miss Maestas?

23 A. I've informed him of the way she would turn

24 inmates away, how she would speak to the inmates

25 directly. And he understood where my concerns were



Page 24

1 every time.

2 Q. Did he express that he had observed the same

3 thing?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Did he express that it was generally known

6 that Miss Maestas had a dismissive attitude towards

7 inmates who were expressing a need for medical care?

8 MR. O'CONNELL: Object to the form.

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) Did other detention deputies

11 within Fremont County express similar concerns that you

12 had with regard to Miss Maestas?

13 A. With me or with each other?

14 Q. With you or with each other in your presence.

15 In other words, did you hear others expressing similar

16 concerns about Miss Maestas?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. What types of concerns did you hear and from

19 who?

20 A. Whoever would have been giving pass-down that

21 day I could have been relieving from their post. And

22 generally the concerns were the same across the board.

23 Q. So you heard this from many other people?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. Did you hear it from sergeants?



Page 25

1 A. No.

2 Q. Did you hear it from other corporals besides

3 Corporal Maas?

4 A. No.

5 Q. Because you were pretty much limited in your

6 interaction to Corporal Maas and Sergeant Green?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. I see.

9 Are there any specific examples that stand

10 out in your mind where you felt that Kathy Maestas was

11 dismissive or adopted an attitude of ignoring inmates

12 who were expressing medical experience?

13 A. I don't remember exact examples.

14 Q. Okay. Did you ever write anything up or --

15 A. No.

16 MR. O'CONNELL: Let him finish the question.

17 THE DEPONENT: Okay.

18 Q. (BY MR. O'CONNELL) Are the nurses that you

19 interact with at Pueblo County a lot different in terms

20 of their demeanor toward inmates who are expressing

21 medical needs than Kathy Maestas was?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Like black and white?

24 A. Basically, yes.

25 Q. Did you sometimes accompany Miss Maestas on



Page 26

1 med line?

2 A. I did it twice that I can remember.

3 Q. Okay. What was the general procedure in

4 terms of how med line worked?

5 A. We would go to the door of whatever pod that

6 meds needed to be passed, and they would line up with

7 their water. And we would verify their name, and she

8 would pass their meds.

9 Q. Did you ever experience an occasion where an

10 inmate didn't line up at the door at the exact right

11 moment in time and then later said, I didn't get my

12 meds?

13 A. No.

14 Q. So what would be the context, then, that you

15 would observe Miss Maestas being rude, dismissive or

16 ignore inmate medical needs since you only went with

17 her a couple of times on med line?


19 A. Can you rephrase the question, please?

20 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) Sure.

21 Earlier you were describing Miss Maestas's

22 demeanor and attitude, as you observed it, and I'm

23 wondering what that context would be that you would be

24 observing Miss Maestas interacting with the inmates who

25 may be expressing medical needs to her.



Page 27

1 A. It could be as simple as them asking a

2 question as far as them having a cold, and she would

3 shrug it off and say, There is nothing I could do right

4 now.

5 Q. So you would see this happen as you were just

6 in the same general vicinity as she was walking by?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Did you ever see inmates expressing what you

9 believed to be, as a layperson, a serious medical

10 need --

11 MR. TIEMEIER: Object to form.

12 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) -- where she adopted a

13 dismissive or rude attitude toward them?


15 A. Will you rephrase that one?

16 Q. (MR. BUDGE) Sure. Did you ever see inmates

17 expressing what you regarded as being serious -- a

18 serious medical need to Miss Maestas?


20 A. No.

21 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) We're going to talk a little

22 more about John Walter in a minute --

23 A. Okay.

24 Q. -- but all of the answers that you have given

25 me as far about Miss Maestas, they relate to inmates



Page 28

1 other than Mr. Walter; is that right?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Now, at Fremont County, your deputy number

4 was 352; is that right?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. And did you have that number throughout your

7 employment at Fremont County as a detention deputy?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. I'm going to hand you now Exhibit 2 to your

10 deposition and ask you to take a look at that and tell

11 me if you recognize that to be a complete copy of your

12 training records with Fremont County.

13 A. A complete record, yes.

14 Q. Okay. And does it appear to accurately

15 reflect all of your training as a staff member for the

16 Fremont County Sheriff's Office?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. And it accurately reflects, then, any and all

19 training that you ever received in connection with your

20 job as a detention deputy for Fremont County?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Do you know if there was any type of

23 requirement that you ever attend an academy or -- well,

24 a corrections officer academy in connection with your

25 job?



Page 29

1 A. In order to get hired?

2 Q. In order to get hired or in order to maintain

3 your employment past the first year, let's say.

4 A. No.

5 Q. Did the other corrections deputies at Fremont

6 County have to attend an academy?

7 A. The ones that I got hired with, no.

8 Q. Even the ones that continued to stay there

9 after you left?

10 A. I don't know.

11 Q. I see.

12 Who were the other corrections deputies that

13 you were hired with?

14 A. Joshua Wilson, Baley Sandefur, Mackenzie

15 Roquemore and Eloysa Trujillo are the ones I can

16 remember.

17 Q. I see. Do you know if the other detention

18 deputies who worked there went to an academy of any

19 kind?

20 A. I don't know.

21 Q. Did you ever receive any training from

22 Fremont County's corporate medical provider,

23 Correctional Healthcare Companies?

24 A. No.

25 Q. Did you ever receive any training from any



Page 30

1 other corporate medical provider such as Correct Care

2 Solutions, LLC; Correctional Healthcare Physicians;

3 CHC Companies or any similar-sounding company?

4 A. No.

5 Q. From the beginning of your employment as a

6 detention deputy or at any time after that with

7 Fremont County, did you receive any training on any of

8 the following topics: Number one, recognizing acute

9 manifestations of certain chronic illnesses, e.g.,

10 asthma, seizures, intoxication and withdrawal or

11 adverse reactions to medications?

12 A. No.

13 Q. Number two, recognizing signs and symptoms of

14 mental illness and violent behavior?

15 A. No.

16 Q. Number three, recognizing signs and symptoms

17 of acute chemical intoxication and withdrawal?

18 A. No.

19 Q. Number four, procedures for appropriate

20 referral of patients with health complaints to

21 health-care staff and/or to appropriate medical

22 facilities?

23 A. Will you repeat that one, please?

24 Q. Procedures for appropriate referral of

25 patients with health complaints to health-care staff



Page 31

1 and/or to appropriate medical facilities?

2 A. No.

3 Q. Are you aware of any documentation of any

4 kind, like an outline of course content, length of

5 course, dates of training or anything like that that

6 would show that other detention deputies received

7 training along the lines of what I just mentioned?

8 A. I don't know.

9 Q. Are you aware of any health and mental health

10 education and training program for the county deputies

11 and jailers, such as yourself, provided by Correctional

12 Healthcare Companies or any designee of Correctional

13 Healthcare Companies?

14 A. No.

15 Q. Are you aware of any training program

16 established by Correctional Healthcare Companies or any

17 designee of Correctional Healthcare Companies to guide

18 health-related training for security staff who work

19 with inmates who might have medical needs?

20 A. No.

21 Q. And did you ever receive any type of training

22 from anyone related in any way to the risks, signs and

23 symptoms of withdrawal from benzodiazepines?

24 A. No.

25 Q. How about opioids?



Page 32

1 A. No.

2 Q. Did you know anything about the signs and

3 symptoms of benzodiazepine withdrawal?

4 A. No.

5 Q. Did you know anything about the signs and

6 symptoms of opioid withdrawal?

7 A. No.

8 Q. Did you know that benzodiazepine withdrawal

9 could be dangerous?

10 A. No.

11 Q. Did you know anything about what might happen

12 to a person who came into the jail dependent on the

13 benzodiazepine but whose benzo was suddenly

14 discontinued?

15 A. No.

16 Q. Did you know anything about what would happen

17 to a person if he or she was withdrawing from methadone

18 or any other opioid?

19 A. No.

20 Q. Did you know anything about monitoring a

21 person who might be at risk of withdrawal from any

22 substance?

23 A. No.

24 Q. Did you know what a benzodiazepine was?

25 A. No.



Page 33

1 Q. Did you have any training on anything

2 relating to alcohol withdrawal?

3 A. No.

4 Q. Did you know there was a corporate medical

5 provider, Correctional Healthcare Companies, that was

6 in charge of providing medical services to inmates at

7 Fremont County?

8 A. Will you repeat that question?

9 Q. Sure.

10 Did you know that there was a corporate

11 medical provider, Correctional Healthcare Companies,

12 that was in charge of providing medical services to

13 inmates detained or confined at the Fremont County

14 jail?

15 A. I knew that we had a company we used.

16 Q. Was it your understanding that the nurses

17 were employed by that company?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Did you ever have any interaction with a

20 physician's assistant named Roy Havens?

21 A. No.

22 Q. Did you ever see that person?

23 A. No.

24 Q. Did you ever have any interaction with a

25 person named Raymond Herr?



Page 34

1 A. No.

2 Q. Did you ever see that person?

3 A. No.

4 Q. Do you know who that person is?

5 A. No.

6 Q. Do you know who Roy Havens is?

7 A. No.

8 Q. Do you know who Sharon Allen is?

9 A. I've seen her.

10 Q. Okay. In the course of your 9 to 10 months

11 working at the Fremont County jail, how many times

12 would you say you saw her?

13 A. Twice.

14 Q. And in what context would have seen her?

15 A. She was doing a one-on-one with her patients.

16 Q. And would that have been in the cell or would

17 it have been in the medical room?

18 A. In the booking area at one of the tables.

19 Q. I see.

20 If there was an inmate at the Fremont County

21 jail who needed to be transported to the hospital,

22 which hospital would he or she be transported to?

23 A. The one that's here in Canon, St. Thomas

24 More.

25 Q. Okay. Good memory.



Page 35

1 Was that a modern hospital that was close by

2 to the jail, within, let's say, about 4 or 5 miles?


4 A. I guess. I don't know the approximate

5 mileage.

6 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) Right. Did you ever have it,

7 when you worked at the Fremont County jail, that an

8 inmate would actually be transported to the hospital?

9 A. Will you repeat that question?

10 Q. Sure. Did it ever occur that an inmate was

11 transported to the hospital, that you are aware of,

12 when you worked at the Fremont County jail?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. How many times, to the best of your

15 recollection?

16 A. 10.

17 Q. And what was the procedure for transporting

18 an inmate to the hospital?

19 A. I don't know.

20 Q. How would it be physically done? In other

21 words, was there a designated vehicle? Would it be

22 done in a patrol car? Would two deputies accompany the

23 inmate, three deputies, one deputy?

24 A. It usually depended on the situation. The

25 few transports I saw were people who came in under



Page 36

1 alcohol and they needed a medical clearance before

2 coming into our facility.

3 Q. So these were people who had not yet been

4 designated to be fit to be confined in the jail; they

5 were being taken to the hospital for clearance before

6 they would be admitted to the jail?

7 A. Correct.

8 Q. Did you ever see it where an inmate who was

9 already admitted to the jail and confined in the jail

10 was then later taken to the hospital because of a

11 medical need?

12 A. I never saw it, no.

13 Q. Are you aware of that ever happening?

14 A. A couple times.

15 Q. But that was hearsay, something you learned

16 happened on another shift?

17 A. Correct.

18 Q. I see.

19 I'm handing you now what we have marked as

20 Exhibit 3 to your deposition, and I'll ask you to take

21 a moment to review that and let me know if those appear

22 to be the time sheets that you completed and signs that

23 document the days and hours that you worked between

24 April 3 and April 20, 2014.

25 I know that it includes other dates as well,



Page 37

1 but I'm primarily interested in knowing whether these

2 time sheets accurately reflect the hours and dates that

3 you worked between April 3 and April 20.

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. As of this period of time, between April 3

6 and April 20, what were your main duties and

7 responsibilities as a detention deputy at Fremont

8 County?

9 A. During this period, I was a booking deputy.

10 My responsibilities were to book in new inmates, have

11 them fill out paperwork or help them fill out paperwork

12 as needed and get them housed in their housing

13 location.

14 Q. And who trained you?

15 A. Corporal Maas was one of them, and I had a

16 couple others who would help me along the way.

17 Q. All right. So according to the time

18 sheets -- and follow along with me and let me know if

19 this is accurate -- you worked April 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9,

20 10, 11, 12. You were off on the 13th and 14th, and you

21 worked again April 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 and 20. Is that

22 correct?

23 A. That's what it appears, yes.

24 Q. And do you have any reason to doubt that that

25 accurately reflects the hours and the dates that you



Page 38

1 worked during this period of time?

2 A. No.

3 Q. Did you have a designated shift that you

4 worked?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. What was it?

7 A. Graveyards.

8 Q. Okay. Starting when and ending when?

9 A. 10:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m.

10 Q. And would you have worked the graveyard shift

11 from 10:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m. on all of the dates that

12 are indicated there -- or shifts of eight hours?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. And then finally on Sunday, April 20th, it

15 indicates that you worked three hours. Do you have any

16 knowledge as you sit here today about why you would

17 have only worked three hours on that day?


19 Q. So when you worked during this period of time

20 as a booking deputy, where were you physically

21 stationed?

22 A. In the booking area.

23 Q. Are you good at art?

24 A. If you count stick figures.

25 Q. I do.



Page 39

1 A. Okay.

2 Q. So I'm going to be handing you a blank piece

3 of paper and ask you if you could, understanding that

4 it's not to scale --

5 A. Okay.

6 Q. -- just make me a little sketch, if you

7 would, of the booking area and the location of the

8 booking area relative to master control, T pod, Medical

9 and any holding cells that are located in the general

10 vicinity of the booking area.

11 A. Okay.

12 Q. And if it's possible, just sort of generally

13 include common areas and hallways. That would be

14 great, too.

15 A. Okay.

16 Q. Okay. Great. So thank you for doing that.

17 Understanding that this drawing is not to scale, does

18 it generally reflect, to the best of your ability, the

19 location of master control, booking, T pod, Medical and

20 the holding cells located in the general vicinity of

21 the booking area?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. And so when it says the booking station for

24 deputies, is that where you were generally stationed

25 when you worked?



Page 40

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And then we see where the T pod is?

3 A. Uh-huh.

4 Q. When you would go into the T pod -- or if a

5 person were to go into T pod, was that subdivided into

6 a number of cells?

7 A. Yes. Yes.

8 Q. Was it subdivided into three cells and a

9 common area?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. And then you labeled a total of five holding

12 cells, Holding Cells 5, 4, 3, 2 and 1. Is that

13 correct?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. And then you've also labeled master control,

16 dress-out area, medical unit and property; is that

17 correct?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. What is your best estimate of how many steps

20 it would take a person to walk from the medical unit to

21 Holding Cell 2?

22 A. The number --


24 A. -- of steps?

25 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) Yes, or if you would prefer



Page 41

1 to make the estimate in feet, how many feet?

2 A. Maybe 50 feet. I'm not a hundred percent

3 sure on that.

4 Q. But could a person walk from the medical unit

5 and be in front of the Holding 2 cell within a minute?

6 A. Maybe 2 minutes, yes.

7 Q. All right. When you -- excuse me, strike

8 that.

9 Was there a large window that separated the

10 booking station from the common area where the tables

11 and chairs are located?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. And then across from that, there were two

14 holding cells, Holding Cell 1 and Holding Cell 2; is

15 that correct?

16 A. Correct.

17 Q. Tell me a little bit about Holding Cell 2.

18 Was Holding Cell 2 a holding cell that had a large

19 glass window or windows that allowed a person to

20 clearly see inside of the holding cell without opening

21 the door?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. From the booking station, could you see

24 through the glass window of the booking station across

25 the hall into Holding Cell 2?



Page 42

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And what would be your estimate of how far it

3 was from the glass windows separating the booking

4 station from the front of Holding Cell 2?

5 A. 12 feet.

6 Q. Was it possible for a person sitting in the

7 booking station to see quite clearly into Holding

8 Cell 2 sitting at his or her desk?


10 A. Yes.

11 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) And, similarly, if any person

12 was in the common area outside of the booking station

13 and in front of Holding Cell 2, could that person see

14 quite clearly into Holding Cell 2?


16 A. If they are in the common area, yes.

17 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) What was the interior of

18 Holding Cell 2 like?

19 A. It was open on this side where you could lay

20 the mattress. There was a seat in the corner right

21 here for the individual to sit. And there was a wall

22 partion (sic), and right behind the wall partion there

23 was a sink and toilet combination in that corner.

24 Q. Could you just go ahead and draw that little

25 bench and the sink and toilet combination for me,



Page 43

1 please.

2 A. (Deponent complied.)

3 Q. Okay. Thank you very much.

4 And you have drawn a rectangle at the front

5 of Holding Cell 2. Is that the large window that a

6 person could see through into Holding Cell 2?

7 A. That rectangle would be to show where the

8 door is to get into Holding Cell 2.

9 Q. Is that also where there was a large window?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. And was there also a smaller window --

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. -- to the right of the door window as you

14 were looking at it?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Could you go ahead and just indicate where

17 that window was?


19 Q. So where you have written "door," it's

20 actually a door with a glass window?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Could you go ahead and write "door with glass

23 window"?


25 Q. Thank you.



Page 44

1 A. Yes, sir.

2 Q. Were there windows on the outside of Holding

3 Cells 3 and 4?

4 A. No.

5 Q. Were there windows on the outside of Holding

6 Cell 1?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Was that similar window/door combination to

9 Holding Cell 2, or was it more limited?

10 A. It was similar.

11 Q. Was there a window in the door of Holding

12 Cell 5?

13 A. In the door, yes.

14 Q. And, I'm sorry, did you say that there was no

15 window at all in Holding Cells 4 or 3?

16 A. In the door, there was windows, but there

17 weren't windows like this.

18 Q. I see. So Holding Cell 4 and Holding Cell 3

19 had windows in the doors?

20 A. Yes, sir.

21 Q. Could a person standing in Holding Cell 4 or

22 Holding Cell 3 looking out of the window in the door of

23 either of those holding cells look into Holding Cell 2?

24 A. I don't know.

25 Q. Never tried it out?



Page 45

1 A. (Deponent shook head.)

2 MR. O'CONNELL: Is that a no?

3 A. No, sir. Sorry. No.

4 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) When you worked at the Fremont

5 County jail, was there any type of video monitoring

6 that was occurring?

7 A. I know there were cameras. I don't know how

8 they worked. I never messed with the system.

9 Q. Do you know what parts of the jails were

10 surveilled by cameras?

11 A. The whole jail was.

12 Q. Do you know whether the interior of Holding

13 Cell 2 was surveilled by a camera?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. It was?

16 A. I believe so, yes.

17 Q. Where was the monitor that allowed a person

18 who was surveilling the inside of Holding Cell 2 via

19 camera?


21 Q. Did you have a -- any type of video

22 monitoring system in the booking area?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. So from the booking area, could you monitor

25 the interior of Holding Cell 2 either via the camera or



Page 46

1 just directly visually or both?

2 MR. O'CONNELL: Objection; form.

3 A. By using the camera?

4 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) Sure.

5 A. With the camera, I don't know. The one that

6 was stationed in the booking -- like the common area, I

7 don't know what it could see because I never looked to

8 see where it could see.

9 Q. All right. Do you know whether there was a

10 camera inside Holding Cell 2?


12 Q. Do you know whether there was a camera inside

13 any of the other holding cells?

14 A. I know 3 and 4 had a camera. I don't

15 remember about 1 or 5.

16 Q. All right. Do you know whether the video

17 cameras that did exist had any recording capability?

18 A. I don't know.

19 Q. From looking through the glass window into

20 Holding Cell 2, could you, if you had chosen, easily

21 see from just a few feet away the person who was in

22 Holding Cell 2, assuming they were not hiding behind

23 the partition?


25 A. Yes.



Page 47

1 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) From looking into any of the

2 windows in Holding Cell 2, would you have a clear and

3 unobstructed view of what the person looked like and

4 what he was doing just as if you were in the same small

5 room as the person, again assuming that they weren't

6 behind the partition?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. And similarly in looking into Holding Cell 1,

9 would you have a clear and unobstructed view of the

10 person who was in there and what he or she was doing?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. When you worked in booking, did you ever

13 interact with T pod inmates during med line or meals or

14 anything like that?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. What were the occasions where you would have

17 interaction with the T pod inmates?

18 A. Passing meds with Medical, giving them a meal

19 tray or passing hygiene supplies, as needed, to them.

20 Q. Were they ever let out for recreational

21 purposes, or would they use the common area inside?

22 A. They were taken to a recreation area.

23 Q. So when you worked as a booking deputy, then,

24 during the course of your 8-hour shift, would you

25 regularly throughout the course of your shift, whether



Page 48

1 it was at med line or meals or passing out items, have

2 occasion to interact with the T pod inmates?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Was there a call button inside the T pod?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Was there an intercom in the booking area

7 that allowed you to hear inmates in the T pod via

8 intercom?

9 A. In the booking area?

10 Q. Yes.

11 A. No.

12 Q. Was it at master control?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. And, similarly, was there a call button in

15 the other holding cells that activated an intercom that

16 was audible from master control?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. All right. I'm going to hand you now what's

19 been marked Exhibit 5 to your deposition, which are

20 discovery responses that were provided to us in this

21 case. And I may go back to this in a moment, but for

22 now I'm going to move on.

23 And I would like to ask you to take a look at

24 Exhibit 3, which is the hours that you worked. Did you

25 work full shifts on April 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 and



Page 49

1 12 of 2014?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Now, it does appear that from the training

4 record, which is Exhibit 2, that you had a full 8-hour

5 course on report writing near the time when you first

6 began working as a detention deputy? Is that correct?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. So you knew that if you ever observed

9 anything significant concerning an inmate that you

10 should document that information in written form?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. For example, there were -- there was

13 something called a Jail Incident report that detention

14 deputies would sometimes use to document issues of

15 significance?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. And, similarly, there were Inmate Notes?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. And so if you ever observed anything out of

20 the ordinary or significant with regard to an inmate,

21 were you trained that you should document that in

22 either a Jail Incident report or Inmate Notes or some

23 other written form?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. And was it your duty as a detention deputy to



Page 50

1 make Inmate Notes about anything that you observed

2 concerning something that might be of significance

3 regarding an inmate's mental, physical or emotional

4 condition?

5 A. Can you repeat that one, please?

6 Q. Sure. Was it your duty as a detention deputy

7 to document anything that you observed or became aware

8 of that was concerning regarding an inmate's mental,

9 physical or emotional condition?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. If you became aware that an inmate was

12 displaying signs of confusion or disorientation or

13 delusions or bizarre behavior or a general

14 deterioration in mental or emotional health status, was

15 that something that you would document?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. And if you became aware that an inmate was

18 displaying signs or symptoms of physical injury or

19 illness that were significant and you became aware of

20 that in the course of your duties, would you document

21 that as well?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. And if you became aware that an inmate was

24 displaying signs or symptoms of violent or aggressive

25 behavior, you would document that as well, correct?



Page 51

1 A. Yes, sir.

2 Q. Mr. Walter was admitted to the jail on or

3 about April 3, 2014. Is that also your understanding?

4 A. As far as in documents, that's how I

5 understand it.

6 Q. And you worked full 8-hour shifts for --

7 looks like 9 of the first 10 days of Mr. Walter's

8 confinement; is that right?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. So in the course of working your full shifts

11 on 9 of the first 10 days of Mr. Walter's confinement,

12 is it fair to say that if you had noticed or become

13 aware of anything out of the ordinary with regard to

14 Mr. Walter in that period of time that you would have

15 documented that?

16 A. That is fair, yes.

17 Q. So are you aware of any documentation that

18 you made during that period of time, between April 3

19 and April 12?

20 A. No.

21 Q. So as far as you observed, although you

22 worked the shifts that we have just been over between

23 April 3 and April 12, you don't recall ever seeing

24 anything unusual about Mr. Walter during that period of

25 time, correct?



Page 52

1 A. Not that I remember.

2 Q. No bizarre or unusual behavior that you

3 became aware of? And we are focusing on the period

4 from April 3 to April 12.


6 Q. Nothing to indicate that he was violent or

7 aggressive?

8 A. No, sir.

9 Q. No complaints by other inmates about his

10 behavior during that period of time?

11 A. None that I heard.

12 Q. And no complaints by other detention deputies

13 about his behavior during that period of time?

14 A. No, sir.

15 Q. Nothing to suggest that he was not eating

16 during that period of time?

17 A. No, sir.

18 Q. Nothing to suggest he was not sleeping during

19 that period of time?

20 A. No, sir.

21 Q. No shaking during that period of time?


23 Q. No strange verbal comments or odd utterances

24 that didn't make sense during that period of time?




Page 53

1 Q. Okay. No indications of hallucinations or

2 delusions or mental confusion during that period of

3 time?


5 Q. Nothing to suggest emotional instability

6 during that period of time?


8 Q. Nothing to suggest that he was

9 inappropriately naked?

10 A. During that time, not that I remember.

11 Q. Right.

12 No twitchy eyes during that period of time?


14 Q. He was not sweaty, dehydrated or weak during

15 that period of time?


17 Q. No bruises, contusions, abrasions or

18 indications of possible broken bones or other physical

19 injuries during that period of time?


21 Q. Nothing to suggest he was losing unusual

22 amounts of weight during that period of time?


24 Q. Nothing to suggest he was sick, ill, injured

25 or mentally unstable during that period of time?



Page 54


2 Q. And I take it that you viewed seriously your

3 duties to document anything of that nature that you

4 would have observed or become aware of during that

5 period of time; is that right?

6 A. Can you repeat that, please?

7 Q. Sure. I take it that you took seriously your

8 obligation to document anything that you would have

9 observed had you observed it during that period of

10 time?

11 A. Yes, sir.

12 Q. As far as you could tell, during the first 10

13 days of his confinement, was Mr. Walter basically a

14 normal person, displaying normal inmate behavior?

15 MR. O'CONNELL: Objection to form,

16 foundation.

17 A. Since I was on graveyards during that

18 beginning time, he slept. So anything unusual that

19 could have arose, I didn't see it.

20 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) Okay. So he was sleeping --

21 A. Yes, sir.

22 Q. -- during that period of time?

23 A. Yes, sir.

24 Q. Do you have any reason to think that any

25 inmate might have assaulted or injured Mr. Walter at



Page 55

1 any time from the point in time that he first entered

2 the jail until his death approximately 18 days later?

3 A. I don't remember. I don't remember hearing

4 anything about him being assaulted from pass-down of

5 other deputies or listening to inmates speak to one

6 another.

7 Q. As you sit here today, do you have any reason

8 to believe that any inmate may have assaulted or

9 injured Mr. Walter at any time?

10 A. No.

11 Q. So if you could now take a look at Exhibit 5

12 to your deposition, which is the interrogatory answers,

13 and if I could just ask you to turn to Page 19 of your

14 interrogatory answers. And do you see where it says

15 your name, "Sara Lightcap," about two-thirds of the way

16 down the page?

17 A. Yes, sir.

18 Q. It indicates there that you worked as a

19 housing deputy for the first -- excuse me -- housing

20 deputy for two months, the booking deputy for the

21 remainder of my time at Fremont; first two months was

22 taking care of housed inmates, after that I booked

23 inmates in and controlled the booking area.

24 Is that information accurate?

25 A. Yes, sir.



Page 56

1 Q. So if you were hired in approximately

2 December of 2013, then by about February of 2014 you

3 were working as a booking deputy; is that right?

4 A. Yes, sir.

5 Q. And you continued to work as a booking deputy

6 for the remainder of your time at the Fremont County

7 Sheriff's Office?

8 A. Yes, sir.

9 Q. And so you would have been working as a

10 booking deputy in April of 2014; is that right?

11 A. Yes, sir.

12 Q. And while working as a booking deputy, you

13 would have had a clear and unobstructed view into

14 Holding Cell 2 from your workstation?

15 A. Yes, sir.

16 Q. Going now to Page 8 of the interrogatory

17 answers that you have in front of you, do you see where

18 your name is indicated there near the bottom of the

19 page?

20 A. Yes, sir.

21 Q. And it says, quote, Each shift I would go to

22 his cell to check on him. Is that information

23 accurate?

24 A. Yes, sir.

25 Q. And so each shift that you worked between



Page 57

1 April 15 and April 20, you would go to his cell -- that

2 is, Mr. Walter's cell -- to check on him; is that

3 right?

4 A. Yes, sir.

5 Q. And that refers to the holding cell where

6 Mr. Walter was being confined?

7 A. Yes, sir.

8 Q. And would you go to his cell to check on him

9 multiple times during the course of your shift?

10 A. Yes, sir.

11 Q. And whenever you went to a cell, did you look

12 through the window?

13 A. Yes, sir.

14 Q. And did you have a clear and unobstructed

15 view of Mr. Walter and how he appeared and what he was

16 doing?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. And did you carefully look inside the cell in

19 order to make a full and accurate observation of what

20 Mr. Walter looked like and what it was he was doing

21 inside the cell?

22 A. Yes, sir.

23 Q. Okay. I would like to ask you now some

24 questions about booking.

25 A. Okay.



Page 58

1 Q. Could you generally describe the way the

2 booking process worked at Fremont County jail.

3 A. Like from beginning to end on what I would

4 do?

5 Q. Sure.

6 A. Yes, sir. Okay. The arrestee would be

7 brought in, I would ask them some questions before

8 bringing them completely into the facility. I would

9 pat down the individual to look for any contraband.

10 From that point, I would have them wait in a holding

11 cell while I gathered their paperwork and organized

12 what I needed to put into the computer.

13 Once I had my end done, I would request to

14 speak to that individual to verify that my information

15 regarding the individual is correct. Once it was

16 correct and -- I would ask the individual to fill out

17 some paperwork, to include medical forms. Once I

18 received those papers back, I would fingerprint the

19 individual.

20 And then the end of the process would be to

21 get the individual dressed into inmate clothes and

22 housed into the housing area.

23 Q. Okay. And when and where did all of this

24 occur? Excuse me. You've told me when. Where did it

25 occur?



Page 59

1 A. In the booking area. So I would sit -- if

2 you were look at the diagram that I drew, generally I

3 would be back in this area inputting the information.

4 When I was ready to speak to the individual or give

5 them the paperwork that they were requested to fill

6 out, I would ask them to sit at one of the tables until

7 they are finished.

8 And in this area right here was the

9 fingerprint machine. And from that point we would go

10 through this door, dress out here and go down the hall

11 to the housing units.

12 Q. All right. What was the procedure with

13 regard to taking custody of and inventorying any

14 personal property that the inmate had on him or her?

15 A. Repeat that again. I'm sorry.

16 Q. Sure. What was the procedure with regard to

17 taking custody and inventorying any personal property

18 that the inmate had on him or her?

19 A. I would take their belongings, search through

20 it. In the computer, I would type up a description of

21 the items and how many there were. If it was something

22 small, like a wallet or a watch, I would seal it in a

23 bag. And then I would gather their stuff, put it in a

24 big bag all together. And I would put their name on

25 that bag to know that that belongs to that individual.



Page 60

1 And before it would go into that bag, that would be a

2 paper that I would go over with the individual to

3 verify I have the correct items that they came in with.

4 Q. Okay. If an inmate came into the jail

5 with -- in the possession of prescription medication on

6 his or her person, what was the procedure associated

7 with taking custody of that medication?

8 A. Paperwork-wise -- my paperwork-wise, it was

9 generally the same. I would write how many

10 prescription bottles there were. Um. I would seal

11 those items or however many prescriptions there were in

12 a bag. And that bag would not go in their property

13 bag. It would actually go into a box that is assigned

14 to the medical staff, so that way when they come onto

15 shift, they can take it and they can view it from there

16 as to what is allowed and not allowed in the facility.

17 Q. Okay. So just helping me flesh that out a

18 little bit more, the procedure for taking custody of

19 and dealing with prescription medications was a little

20 bit different than the other property because the

21 prescription medication had to go to Medical, correct?

22 A. Yes, sir.

23 Q. And so you would take the bottles containing

24 the prescription medication and you would seal those in

25 a separate bag?



Page 61

1 A. Yes, sir.

2 Q. And that separately sealed bag would be put

3 into a location where the nurses would see that

4 medication when they came on shift, correct?

5 A. Yes, sir.

6 Q. And there was a designated location where

7 those prescription medications would be placed?

8 A. Yes, sir.

9 Q. And that designated medication was a special

10 designated drawer or box that the medical staff would

11 check when they came on shift?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. And that drawer or box was exclusively for

14 the purpose of putting prescription medications that an

15 inmate brought with him or her when he or she came into

16 the jail?

17 A. Yes, sir. And it would also hold the medical

18 form in which that individual filled out regarding

19 their medical history.

20 Q. I see.

21 And was the medical form attached physically

22 to the bag containing the prescription bottles?

23 A. Yes, sir.

24 Q. Stapled?

25 A. Yes, sir.



Page 62

1 Q. And was the stapled form and the bag

2 containing the prescription bottles as part of the

3 regular, ordinary course of business, always placed in

4 that drawer or designated box?

5 A. Yes, sir.

6 Q. Was it ever the case that the prescription

7 medication and the stapled form would actually be taken

8 to the medical office?

9 A. Sorry. Go ahead.

10 Q. I'm done.

11 A. Oh, okay. As far as I'm aware, yes.

12 Q. And why would it sometimes be taken to the

13 medical office directly and why would it sometimes be

14 placed in a drawer for Medical to pick up?

15 A. The only people that would take it down to

16 the medical office would be the medical staff.

17 Q. I see.

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Did you ever see medical staff coming on for

20 their shifts?

21 A. I would see them pass through, yes.

22 Q. And when you saw them pass through, would you

23 see them take the medication bottles that had been

24 collected from inmates who had come into the jail along

25 with the stapled form out of the designated box?



Page 63

1 A. I didn't see them physically take it out of

2 the box, but as they would pass, I would see it in

3 their hands.

4 Q. So you knew as a regular part of the

5 procedures that it would be collected by the people

6 that were coming on duty?

7 A. Yes, sir.

8 Q. And that would include Nurse Maestas and

9 Nurse Repshire?

10 A. Yes, sir.

11 Q. And did you have any further responsibility

12 for how the medications were managed after you received

13 them from the inmate, placed them in the designated bag

14 with the stapled form and put them in the designated

15 drawer or box?

16 A. No, sir.

17 Q. From there, it was the responsibility of the

18 nurses?

19 A. Yes, sir.

20 Q. Were there any other procedures that were in

21 place if an inmate indicated in the booking and intake

22 process that he or she was taking medication prescribed

23 by a doctor?

24 A. I'm sorry, please repeat that.

25 Q. Other than what you have just described, are



Page 64

1 there any other procedures that we haven't discussed

2 that were in place if an inmate indicated in the

3 booking and intake process that he or she was taking

4 medication prescribed by a doctor?

5 A. No, sir.

6 Q. What if the inmate came in at 10:00 p.m. and

7 there's no nurse coming on duty until 7:00 a.m. and the

8 inmate indicates that he or she needs their medication

9 before the nurse came on duty?

10 A. I never encountered such a situation, so I'm

11 not a hundred percent sure the protocol on that.

12 Q. Okay. During the booking process, was it the

13 case that the inmate would turn in his or her street

14 clothes and then shower before changing into a jail

15 uniform?

16 A. Yes, sir.

17 Q. Was the shower located in the dress-out area?

18 A. Yes, sir.

19 Q. Was it standard, routine process that the

20 inmate would shower before putting on his or her jail

21 uniform?

22 A. Yes, sir.

23 Q. Was it always the case as part of the normal

24 procedures the inmate would be observed during the

25 process of him or her removing their street clothes,



Page 65

1 showering and then changing into the jail uniform --

2 A. Yes, sir.

3 Q. -- observed by a detention deputy?

4 A. Yes, sir.

5 Q. Was it the case that female corrections

6 deputies would observe females and vice versa, or did

7 females observe males and males observe females?

8 A. No, sir. It was female deputies with the

9 female inmates, male deputies with the male inmates.

10 Never mixed.

11 Q. So every inmate who came into the jail and

12 went through the booking process was actually

13 physically observed in the nude by jail staff before

14 the inmate was taken to his or her cell for

15 confinement?

16 A. Yes, sir.

17 Q. And if in the course of observing the inmates

18 in the nude the detention deputy saw any injuries such

19 as significant contusions, bruising, indications of

20 possible broken bones or other visible injuries, it was

21 the policy of the jail that the detention deputy should

22 document those injuries?


24 A. Yes, sir.

25 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) All right. Handing you now



Page 66

1 what has been marked as Exhibit 6 to your deposition,

2 is this a form that you recognize as being the

3 Pre-Admission Medical Screen form at the Fremont County

4 Sheriff's Office?

5 A. Yes, sir.

6 Q. Do you know whether this is a Fremont County

7 Sheriff's Office form or whether it is a form

8 promulgated by Correctional Healthcare Companies?

9 A. I do not know.

10 Q. As a booking deputy, were you a qualified

11 health-care staff?


13 A. I'm sorry, can you repeat that? I thought

14 there was more.

15 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) No problem.

16 Were you qualified health-care staff?

17 A. No.

18 Q. Were you health-care-trained security staff?

19 A. No.

20 Q. So I take it, then, that you would regularly

21 complete the form that you have in front of you as

22 Exhibit 6 -- albeit not this specific form, but this

23 type of form -- as part of your booking duties?

24 A. I didn't complete it. It's something I would

25 hand to the individual to complete; but, yes, it was



Page 67

1 part of the paperwork for them to work on.

2 Q. Thank you. Correct.

3 As a booking deputy, although you were

4 asking -- excuse me. Strike that.

5 As part of your duties as a booking deputy,

6 did you actually ask questions of the inmate at the

7 time of the booking related to medical issues, or did

8 you simply provide them with the form and have them

9 fill it out?

10 A. There were questions in the computer system

11 that were related to medical issues.

12 Q. Beyond asking the standard questions in the

13 computer and providing the inmates with forms to fill

14 out, did you actually do anything else that you would

15 consider medical in nature or a medical screening as

16 part of the booking process?

17 A. No, sir.

18 Q. Did you ever see any policies, procedures or

19 protocols of Correctional Healthcare Companies?

20 A. No, sir.

21 Q. Were you ever trained on any policies,

22 procedures or protocols of Correctional Healthcare

23 Companies?

24 A. No, sir.

25 Q. And was it of your job to do anything



Page 68

1 required of the policies, procedures and protocols of

2 Correctional Healthcare Companies?

3 A. No, sir.

4 Q. Under the normal procedures of the jail, what

5 would happen to this form, Exhibit 6, after it was

6 completed by the arrestee?

7 A. This is the form that would be turned in to

8 the medical staff's box for them to pick up and

9 evaluate.

10 Q. So this is the form that would be actually --

11 in the case where an inmate brought in medications,

12 this is the form that would be stapled to the bag

13 containing the prescription medications.

14 A. Yes, sir.

15 Q. And other than providing the form to medical,

16 did you do anything else as part of your regular duties

17 in response to the information contained in the form?

18 A. No, sir.

19 Q. And even in the case where an inmate did not

20 bring in prescriptions, was this form, as part of the

21 normal course of business, put in the designated drawer

22 or box for medical to see when they came?

23 A. Yes, sir.

24 MR. BUDGE: Shall we take a quick break?

25 MR. O'CONNELL: Sounds great.



Page 69

1 (A recess was taken from 10:20 a.m. to

2 10:34 a.m.)

3 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) All right. I'm now handing

4 you what's been marked Exhibit 7 to your deposition,

5 which is a document called Inmate Property List Report.

6 Are you familiar with documents of this nature as part

7 of your duties as a detention deputy with Fremont

8 County?

9 A. Yes, sir.

10 Q. Is that a standard Inmate Property List

11 Report that would be generated for incoming inmates?

12 A. Yes, sir.

13 Q. Were you trained to document each and every

14 item of permanent property that an inmate had with him

15 or her when they came into the jail?

16 A. Yes, sir.

17 Q. Including medications and the contents of any

18 bags or pockets, clothing and any other personal

19 possessions that a person might have on him or her?

20 A. Yes, sir.

21 Q. And if a person brought in a wallet, for

22 example, would you take out the contents of the wallet

23 and inventory them separately?

24 A. Yes, sir.

25 Q. And if an inmate had a bag or jacket with



Page 70

1 items of personal property in the pockets, would you

2 take out and inventory the items in the bag or in the

3 pockets?

4 A. Yes, sir.

5 Q. And it was standard procedure that all

6 medication bottles would be forwarded to Medical,

7 correct?

8 A. Yes, sir.

9 Q. I'm handing you now what's been marked

10 Exhibit 8 to your deposition, which is a document

11 called Medical Questionnaire. Is this a computer

12 questionnaire that you were referencing earlier?

13 A. Yes, sir.

14 Q. Is this a form that was normally completed

15 for every inmate that was booked into the jail?

16 A. Yes, sir.

17 Q. And there's a separate space for the inmate

18 to sign?

19 A. Yes, sir.

20 Q. And the inmate was supposed to sign?

21 A. The way I was told, for me personally, was

22 since this is on the computer, it does not have to be

23 printed and signed by the individual. However, I did

24 see it go both ways, that some deputies working booking

25 would print this and ask the individual to sign it and



Page 71

1 some would not.

2 Q. How did you do?

3 A. I printed it.

4 Q. And you had the inmate sign --

5 A. Yes, sir.

6 Q. -- and date --

7 A. Yes, sir.

8 Q. -- to indicate that the information was

9 accurate and correct?

10 A. Yes, sir.

11 Q. And that was your normal practice?

12 A. Yes, sir.

13 Q. If you didn't print it and you didn't have

14 the inmate sign it, how would you have a record that

15 the inmate had verified the information as being

16 accurate and complete?

17 A. The way I was informed on this was this

18 information was to match this information, and because

19 this is a signed copy, they would correlate.

20 Q. So you were taught that the information

21 contained on Exhibit 6, the Pre-Admission Medical

22 Screen, should match the information on Exhibit 8, the

23 Medical Questionnaire?

24 A. Yes, sir.

25 Q. Do you know why in this case there's



Page 72

1 information on Exhibit 6 that is not contained in

2 Exhibit 8? For example, when Mr. Walter came into the

3 jail, according to Exhibit 6, he indicated that he was

4 on medication prescribed by a doctor, including

5 methadone and Klonopin. Do you see that?

6 A. Yes, sir.

7 Q. And you indicated on the handwritten form,

8 Exhibit 6, that he was carrying medication on his

9 person among his personal possessions?

10 A. Yes, I see that.

11 Q. Including methadone and Klonopin?

12 A. Yes, sir.

13 Q. And he indicated that had he a doctor on the

14 handwritten form, Exhibit 6?

15 A. Yes, sir.

16 Q. And he gave the name of his doctor?

17 A. Yes, sir.

18 Q. And he indicated that he had health

19 insurance?

20 A. Yes, I see that.

21 Q. And do you know why the information about

22 Mr. Walter being on Klonopin and that he was carrying

23 Klonopin on his person is not mentioned on the computer

24 form, Exhibit 8?

25 A. I do not know.



Page 73

1 Q. Would it be your normal practice to make sure

2 that the information on Exhibit 8, the computer form,

3 matched the information on Exhibit 6, the handwritten

4 form.

5 A. For my normal practice, yes.

6 Q. So if this had been your inmate, would you

7 expect that you would have indicated that Mr. Walter

8 was on Klonopin on the computer form, Exhibit 8?

9 A. Will you repeat that? I'm sorry.

10 Q. If it had been your inmate -- if you had been

11 booking this inmate, Mr. Walter, would it have been

12 your normal practice to indicate on the Medical

13 Questionnaire -- that is, the computer form,

14 Exhibit 8 -- that Mr. Walter was on Klonopin as

15 indicated on the handwritten form, Exhibit 6?

16 A. Yes, sir.

17 Q. And you would have had the inmate sign and

18 date --

19 A. Yes, sir.

20 Q. -- Exhibit 8?

21 A. Yes, sir.

22 Q. And then what would you do with the form that

23 the inmate signed and dated, Exhibit 8, once it was

24 fully completed and the inmate had signed and dated it?

25 A. My normal practice was to take both of these



Page 74

1 papers and send them to Medical.

2 Q. Okay. Who trained you that it was okay not

3 to have the inmate sign and date the Medical

4 Questionnaire, Exhibit 8?


6 Q. All right. I'm handing you now what's been

7 marked Exhibit 9 to your deposition, which is a

8 document bearing production numbers 122 through 125 in

9 the lower right-hand corner. And just for the record,

10 it's on the subject of receiving screening. Have you

11 ever seen this before?

12 A. No, sir.

13 Q. So I'm going to be asking you a little bit

14 about this Exhibit 9 because I'm somewhat confused as

15 to whether Exhibits 6 and 8 -- that is, the handwritten

16 Pre-Admission Medical Screen and the Medical

17 Questionnaire that was generated on the computer --

18 were pursuant to this policy, Exhibit 9, or whether

19 Exhibit 9 refers to something else.

20 So I guess what I would ask you to do is to

21 take a look at Exhibit 9 and just generally familiarize

22 yourself with it, and then I'm going to ask you some

23 questions about it.

24 Have you generally reviewed Exhibit 9, even

25 if not reading it word for word?



Page 75

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. You'll note, for example, Section F 6, which

3 begins toward the bottom of the second page, refers to

4 a medical screening form used to conduct a basic

5 receiving screening inquiry on, and then it goes on to

6 list 14 separately identified items, a through n.

7 For example, beginning with n, it says,

8 Inquiry should include whether the patient is perceived

9 to be gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, intersex or

10 gender nonconforming.

11 Do you see that?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. But I don't see anything about that in the

14 documents that we have previously referenced, Exhibit 6

15 and Exhibit 8. Would you agree that the information

16 that is contained on Exhibit 6 and 8 does not include

17 all the information on Exhibit 9?

18 A. That is correct.

19 Q. Similarly, whether the patient has previously

20 been incarcerated, I don't see anything like that on

21 the forms that were completed in the case of

22 Mr. Walter. Do you agree?

23 A. Um. I'm sorry, can you repeat that question?

24 Q. Sure. Is it the case that there are --

25 there's quite a bit of information contained on



Page 76

1 Exhibit 9 --

2 A. Right.

3 Q. -- that is supposed to be part of an

4 RHA-approved form that is not actually contained on the

5 forms we have marked as Exhibit 6 and 8?

6 A. Correct.

7 Q. For example, there's nothing about past

8 withdrawal symptoms as indicated in subpart j, current

9 or past drug withdrawal symptoms, i.e., convulsions?

10 Nothing about that on the forms marked 6 and 8,

11 correct?

12 A. Correct.

13 MR. TIEMEIER: Object to foundation.

14 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) And it goes on. I guess what

15 I'm asking is, were the forms that were completed as a

16 matter of course when working as a booking deputy,

17 including the forms that we have marked as Exhibit 6

18 and 8, forms that were completed pursuant to this

19 policy, Exhibit 9, or is Exhibit 9 referring to

20 something else?

21 A. It would be referring to these papers.

22 MR. TIEMEIER: Object to form and foundation.

23 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) So do you know why these

24 papers do not include information about past withdrawal

25 symptoms?



Page 77


2 A. I don't know.

3 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) Whether the patient is

4 perceived to be gay, lesbian, et cetera?

5 A. I don't know.

6 Q. Take a look at the policy statement if you

7 would on the first page of Exhibit 9. Under b, it

8 says, "All patients will have a receiving screening

9 performed by a qualified health care staff or health

10 care trained security staff upon arrival at the

11 facility," and then it goes on.

12 You were not qualified health-care staff or

13 trained health-care security staff, correct?

14 A. Correct.

15 Q. So were the documents that you were

16 responsible for completing, Exhibit 6 and 8, documents

17 that were prepared pursuant to this policy, Exhibit 9?


19 A. Can you rephrase that, please?

20 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) Sure. Given that you, as a

21 booking deputy, were not qualified health-care staff or

22 health-care trained security staff, did you,

23 nevertheless, regard these documents, these forms,

24 Exhibit 6 and 8, as being completed pursuant to this

25 policy that we have marked as Exhibit 9?



Page 78


2 A. I'm sorry, I guess I still don't understand

3 the question.

4 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) It states, "All patients will

5 have a receiving screening performed by qualified

6 health care staff or health care trained security staff

7 upon arrival at the facility."

8 A. Correct.

9 Q. Given that you were not qualified health-care

10 staff or health-care trained security staff, were the

11 duties that you performed at intake, duties that were

12 performed pursuant to this policy; or is this policy,

13 to your understanding, referring to something that's

14 supposed to be done by Medical --

15 MR. O'CONNELL: Object to form.


17 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) -- or do you know?

18 MR. BUDGE:

19 A. I don't know.

20 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) Is it the case you are not

21 clear on whether the documents that were completed as

22 part of your normal booking duties, Exhibit 6 and 8,

23 were documents that were completed pursuant to the

24 policy that we have marked Exhibit 9, which you didn't

25 see and which you weren't trained on?



Page 79


2 A. I don't know.

3 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) Okay. The fact is that you

4 were trained to fill out -- you were trained to have

5 the arrestee fill out Exhibit 6?

6 A. Correct.

7 Q. And you were trained to fill out Exhibit 8?

8 A. Correct.

9 Q. But you were not trained on anything having

10 to do with Exhibit 9?

11 A. Correct.

12 Q. All right. Do you know one way or the other

13 if any person as a matter of course at the Fremont

14 County jail did the things that were required of the

15 policy that we have marked as Exhibit 9?


17 A. As far as the deputies?

18 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) As far as anybody.

19 A. I don't know.

20 Q. Did you do all of the things that are

21 required of Policy E-02 that we have marked as

22 Exhibit 9, or did you simply complete the forms that we

23 have marked as Exhibit 8 and have the inmate complete

24 the form that we have marked as Exhibit 6?




Page 80

1 A. I did not know this was even a policy within

2 the County, so I completed the forms as I was trained.

3 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) Fair enough.

4 Now I'm handing you what's been marked

5 Exhibit 10 to your deposition, another policy on the

6 subject of Initial Health Assessment, bearing

7 Production No. 1283132. Similar questions with regard

8 to the prior policy. Have you ever seen this before?

9 A. No, sir.

10 Q. Were you ever trained on it?

11 A. No, sir.

12 Q. The policy states on the first page, "All

13 patients shall have a health assessment performed by a

14 qualified health care professional as soon as possible,

15 but no later than 14 calendar days after the patient's

16 admission to the facility, to assess and plan for

17 meeting the health needs of the patient."

18 And then it goes on to describe the health

19 assessment in some detail, which includes a physical

20 examination and so on and so forth consisting of a wide

21 variety of topics of inquiry. Were you ever trained on

22 any aspect of this?

23 A. No, sir.

24 Q. Did you ever do any of this as part of your

25 job?



Page 81

1 A. No, sir.

2 Q. Did you ever do anything to ensure compliance

3 with this policy?

4 A. No, sir.

5 Q. Are you aware of anybody who did anything to

6 ensure compliance with this policy at the jail?

7 A. I don't know.

8 Q. Is it your understanding that Exhibit 10 is

9 directed to health-care staff and not the detention

10 deputies?

11 A. Will you repeat that one, please.

12 Q. Is it your understanding that Exhibit 10, the

13 one you are looking at right now, is directed to the

14 duties of health-care staff as opposed to the detention

15 deputies?

16 A. Yes, sir.

17 Q. Okay. Do you know if inmates received the

18 required -- the required health care assessment

19 indicated on the policy that we have marked as

20 Exhibit 10 as a matter of course at the Fremont County

21 jail?


23 A. I don't know.

24 MR. TIEMEIER: I'm sorry, I didn't hear the

25 answer.



Page 82

1 THE DEPONENT: I said, "I don't know."

2 MR. TIEMEIER: Thank you.

3 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) That's it for that.

4 Um. Now, is it your understanding that from

5 at least April 15th, beginning at least 10:00 p.m.,

6 until his death at approximately 5:30 p.m. on

7 April 20th that Mr. Walter was confined in one of the

8 holding cells facing the booking area?

9 A. Yes.


11 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) And in which holding cell was

12 he confined?

13 A. He was housed in Holding Cell 2.

14 Q. Who could see into Holding Cell 2?

15 A. The deputies who -- whose post was in the

16 booking area, any deputy who was walking through this

17 open area, any new arrestee who would be coming in, if

18 they were to look, they could see into Holding 2.

19 Q. And the nurses as well?

20 A. Yes, sir.

21 Q. Did you monitor Mr. Walter on the eight-hour

22 shifts that you worked on April 15, 16, 17, 18, and 19?


24 A. If I was scheduled to work the booking area,

25 yes.



Page 83

1 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) Okay. Well, go back to

2 Exhibit 5, if you would. And take a look at your

3 response to Interrogatory No. 2, beginning on Page 8.

4 Do you see where it says, "Each shift I would go to his

5 cell to check on him"?

6 A. Yes, sir.

7 Q. Is it the case, then, that on each shift that

8 you worked on April 15, 16, 17, 18 and 19 that you

9 would go to Mr. Walter's cell to check on him?

10 A. Yes, sir.

11 Q. And also on April 20th as well?

12 A. No. April 20th, no.

13 Q. Is that because you started work after

14 Mr. Walter passed away on April 20th?

15 A. Yes, sir.

16 Q. And did you monitor Mr. Walter multiple times

17 a day on the 8-hour shifts that you worked on April 15,

18 16, 17, 18 and 19?

19 A. Yes, sir.


21 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) How did you monitor

22 Mr. Walter?

23 A. It varied day to day. Some of them were

24 visual confirmations with him. Every now and then I

25 would have a verbal communication -- I would have



Page 84

1 communication with him verbally. Other times, if he

2 were sleeping, I would look for any kind of movement,

3 whether he rolls from one side to the other side, um,

4 maybe he coughed, something to show that he's still

5 physically alive.

6 Q. Is it the case that you would visually check

7 on Mr. Walter via actually going up to the cell window

8 of Holding Cell 2 and look inside the holding cell on

9 multiple occasions during the course of your eight-hour

10 shifts on April 15, 16, 17, 18 and 19?

11 A. Yes, sir.

12 Q. And in monitoring Mr. Walter, was it

13 important that you do that in a thorough and careful

14 way?

15 A. Yes, sir.

16 Q. Who else was checking on Mr. Walter during

17 the times that you worked on April 15th through 19th?

18 A. Anybody that would be working. It could be

19 the other person I was working with, it could have been

20 whoever was working the position as rover. Anybody

21 that ever walked by his cell and was in this area will

22 go to the window and verify and check on him.

23 Q. And they would do that in the same way that

24 you would do it?

25 A. Yes, sir.



Page 85

1 Q. Okay. Handing you now what's been marked

2 Exhibit 11 to your deposition. Do you recognize this

3 to be the Inmate welfare check list that was kept in

4 the case of Mr. Walter?

5 A. Yes, sir.

6 Q. Was this Inmate welfare check list actually

7 posted on the door to Mr. Walter's Holding Cell 2?

8 A. Yes, sir.

9 Q. And was it the case that every officer who

10 filled out or had a hand in filling out this Inmate

11 welfare check list was supposed to do so as he or she

12 was physically observing Mr. Walter?

13 A. Yes, sir.

14 Q. Anytime we see an entry that uses the Deputy

15 Call No. 352, is that your entry in your handwriting?

16 A. Yes, sir.

17 Q. And would you write down what you saw

18 Mr. Walter doing, how you saw him behaving?

19 A. Yes, sir.

20 Q. So if you ever saw him sleeping, would you

21 write that down?

22 A. Yes, sir.

23 Q. Beginning on the second page of the exhibit,

24 beginning with the entry just a little bit more than

25 halfway down that begins at 2300 hours on April 16th,



Page 86

1 you wrote that Mr. Walter was lying down?

2 A. Yes, sir.

3 Q. And then half an hour later you wrote that he

4 was "playing at window/yelling"?

5 A. Yes, sir.

6 Q. Can you tell me what you mean by that,

7 "playing at window/yelling"?

8 A. I don't remember exactly what he was doing,

9 but I do know that there were instances where I would

10 watch Mr. Walter, what could be assumed as, you know,

11 maybe dancing away or fidgeting with the window, any

12 kind of movement. In this instance, he must have been

13 doing something at the door or at the window right

14 there for me to have written that down.

15 Q. Do you know why you wrote "playing at

16 window"?

17 A. It must have been something he was doing. I

18 can't remember exactly what he was doing.

19 Q. And then about a half an hour later you write

20 that he's standing at window?

21 A. Yes, sir.

22 Q. And half an hour after that, you write,

23 "sitting on bench, yelling"?

24 A. Yes, sir.

25 Q. And again, "sitting on bench yelling"?



Page 87

1 A. Yes, sir.

2 Q. Could you describe the yelling for me that

3 you observed Mr. Walter engaging in?

4 A. Mr. Walter, during his time there, he would

5 have these moments that would be documented where he

6 would just start yelling. And it wouldn't be directly

7 yelling at someone. It could be he was just making

8 loud noise, he could have been yelling words, but he

9 did have these moments where verbally he was very --

10 very loud.

11 Q. Did it appear that he was yelling at

12 somebody, or was it just -- as far as you could tell,

13 just random yelling, not necessarily making sense?


15 A. As far as I could tell, he was just yelling

16 to yell, not at anybody in particular for any reason.

17 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) He said, yelling TL? I'm

18 sorry. Oh, yelling to yell?

19 A. Yes. Yes. He was just yelling to yell.

20 Whatever was going on at that moment I would see as

21 that's what he found necessary to do, I guess.

22 Q. So not necessarily yelling at anybody or

23 about anything in particular, but just, as far as you

24 could tell, random yelling?

25 A. Correct.



Page 88

1 Q. And then a half an hour later you write,

2 "staring at tables." What do you mean by that?

3 A. He could -- he was -- anytime that I remember

4 him looking at something, especially through the

5 window, he was standing, staring. And I don't know if

6 it was directly at the table, but it was in the

7 direction of these tables that were in the common area.

8 Q. Was there anything happening at the tables?

9 A. No.

10 Q. So it was just sort of a vacant stare in the

11 direction of the tables?

12 A. Yes.


14 A. He could have been fixed on the object at the

15 time or that's just the general direction he was

16 looking.

17 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) Or something that he was

18 seeing that wasn't even there?

19 A. Correct.



22 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) About half an hour later you

23 write, "moving around cell."

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. And then at 4:30 a.m., you write, "sitting on



Page 89

1 bench"?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. All right. And then directing your attention

4 to the next page that begins at 11:00 p.m., 2200 hours,

5 you write he's sitting down?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. And then half an hour after that, "sitting on

8 bench"?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. And then half an hour after that, "talking at

11 window"?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. And again, "talking at window"?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Could you describe what you mean by that,

16 "talking at window"?

17 A. You could almost relate it to him -- to his

18 just yelling to yell. I know, from what I can

19 remember, the times that I saw him, he would be at the

20 door window, and he would just be talking. Not talking

21 at anybody, not talking to anybody. But it wasn't like

22 he was yelling like on this page. It was -- he was

23 standing there just having a conversation with himself.

24 Q. Having a conversation with himself but not

25 directing his conversation toward you?



Page 90

1 A. Correct.

2 Q. And not directing his conversation toward

3 anybody else that you know to have actually been in the

4 vicinity?

5 A. Correct.

6 Q. So he could have been, as far as you know,

7 talking to imaginary people?

8 MR. O'CONNELL: Object to have.


10 A. I don't know.

11 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) Did he appear to be carrying

12 on a conversation like a question-and-answer session,

13 or --


15 A. I don't remember. I know -- I just know that

16 he would have these conversations.

17 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) But not with you --

18 A. Right.

19 Q. -- or with anybody who was actually present?

20 A. Right.

21 Q. And then at about midnight you write,

22 "returned to cell"?

23 A. Correct.

24 Q. What do you mean by that?

25 A. I don't remember what happened, but the



Page 91

1 reason to have written that was we must have brought

2 him out of Holding Cell 2 for whatever reason. Um.

3 And then at about that time, I escorted him back into

4 Holding Cell 2.

5 Q. And then you write about half an hour after

6 that, "sitting on bunk, talking"?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Similar talking to himself or somebody who

9 wasn't present?

10 A. Something similar to the previous talking,

11 yes.

12 Q. Not talking to any actual person?

13 A. Correct.

14 Q. And then at about 1:00 a.m. you write,

15 "talked to inmate about not hitting door"?

16 A. Correct.

17 Q. And that implies that he was hitting the

18 door. Do you recall him hitting the door?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Can you describe that for me?

21 A. I don't know what led up to it, but I know

22 there was a moment where Mr. Walter started hitting the

23 door. I don't know if he was kicking it as well, but

24 he had been hitting the door. And myself and a few of

25 the people I had been working with that night were



Page 92

1 getting ready to take him out of the cell because what

2 we are trained to recognize is that could be self-harm,

3 and we need to prevent that.

4 In that instance, I was able to talk

5 Mr. Walter down and calm him down from whatever reason

6 he kept hitting the door to completely getting him to

7 stop hitting the door the rest of the night.

8 Q. Okay.

9 A. So that's that.

10 Q. When you would go to check on Mr. Walter at

11 the door, would you often attempt to engage him in some

12 sort of dialogue?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Were there occasions where your dialogue was

15 not successful --

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. -- and that he was just totally unresponsive

18 to you?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Did it sometimes appear to you that he didn't

21 even know you were talking to him?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. But on this particular occasion Mr. Walter

24 had been hitting the door and after you talked to him

25 he didn't do it again?



Page 93

1 A. Correct.

2 Q. Do you know if he was hitting the door with a

3 closed fist, open hand, anything?


5 Q. But you were worried he might be hurting

6 himself?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. And then a half an hour later you write,

9 "playing at sink/staring at lights." Can you tell me

10 what you mean by that?

11 A. Reading that does bring up like a memory for

12 me. He did have his times where he would get the water

13 and the sink going and he would play in the sink and

14 play with the water. In the holding cell there,

15 directly above the middle, there was a light, and he

16 would have his moments where he would just stare at the

17 light.

18 And I don't know if it was, you know, the

19 same thing as staring at tables where he was directly

20 looking at the light or if he was just looking in that

21 direction. But from my observations, I could see

22 him -- I would take it as he was staring at the light.

23 Q. Staring in a prolonged way?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. For minutes on end?



Page 94

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Did Mr. Walter have a cup in his cell that he

3 could drink water from?

4 A. In the beginning he did. I don't know -- I

5 don't remember if he had it towards the end.

6 Q. Do you think that maybe he did not have it at

7 some point, the cup?


9 Q. Why do you suggest that in the beginning he

10 did but then you are not sure if he had it toward the

11 end?

12 A. There were times when he would take his cup

13 and he would throw it, and we wanted to prevent the cup

14 from either breaking or bouncing off the wall and

15 coming back and possibly hitting him.

16 Q. So at some point in time the cup was taken?

17 A. I believe so. I don't know a hundred

18 percent.

19 Q. And then at 2:00 a.m., you write, "at

20 window"?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. And then at 2:30 and 3:00 a.m., you write,

23 "sitting"?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. And then at 3:30 a.m., you write, "talking to



Page 95

1 sink/wall"?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Could you tell me what you mean by that?

4 A. In that instance, he was probably facing his

5 bathroom combination and just, um, talking.

6 Q. Chattering away?

7 A. Uh-huh.

8 Q. Yes?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. So you observed him just chattering away to

11 the wall?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. And chattering away to the sink?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Again, as far as you could tell, nonsense?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. And then at 4:00 a.m. you write that he's

18 "smiling at wall and window." Can you tell me what you

19 mean by that?

20 A. I don't remember directly what he was doing,

21 but he must have been probably in this area of the

22 holding cell (indicating) and just standing there with

23 a smile on his face. And, again, I don't know if it

24 was he thought of something or he saw something or if

25 he was just standing there to do it, but it was an



Page 96

1 observation that I made.

2 Q. And then you write, "standing on bench"?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. And that's a concrete bench?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Is that a bench that is designed for a person

7 to sit on or lay on?

8 A. No.

9 Q. What's it for?

10 A. Well, sit on, yes. Not lay on.

11 Q. How does a person lay down in the cell?

12 A. We provide them with a hard plastic, I

13 guess --

14 Q. Mat?

15 A. Not just a mat, but there's -- I guess best

16 way to describe it would be like a boat shape that the

17 mat can lie in to keep it from being directly on the

18 floor. So that's what he was provided with so that way

19 he wasn't directly on the floor.

20 Q. And so when you write that he was standing on

21 the bench, you are referring to the --

22 A. That area.

23 Q. -- bench within Holding Cell 2 that you just

24 pointed to?

25 A. Yes.



Page 97

1 Q. And then about half an hour after that, you

2 write, "standing against back wall/shaking." Can you

3 tell me what you mean by that?

4 A. I vaguely remember that. He was standing

5 somewhere back here (indicating). I don't remember if

6 it was a corner or the center, but he stood towards the

7 back of Holding Cell 2, and his physical -- from head

8 to toe was just shaking. I don't know what brought it

9 on, but he had just started it.

10 Q. And was this the first time that you observed

11 him shaking?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. And so you observed his entire body shaking?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Would you say that it was shuddering,

16 quivering?

17 A. Almost as if, you know, you were in the snow

18 too long and you tense up and shiver.

19 Q. Was it just his arms or extremities, or was

20 it his entire body that was shaking?

21 A. I don't remember for sure. I do remember

22 seeing like his chest and his arms shake, but as far as

23 like hips down, I do not remember.

24 Q. Was his head shaking as well?




Page 98

1 Q. Did it appear to you to be an involuntary

2 shaking?

3 A. I don't know.

4 Q. But you observed him shaking from head to toe

5 almost as if he was freezing cold?

6 A. Correct.


8 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) And then about half an hour

9 after that you write, "standing/talking at window." Is

10 that another reference to just nonsensical chattering?

11 A. Correct.

12 Q. Is there a fountain in the cell that somebody

13 can take a drink out of --

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. -- if they don't have a cup?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. So then moving on to the next page, it

18 appears that there are two entries, one at 2:00 a.m.

19 where you write "laying down," and then again at 2:30

20 you write, "laying down."

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. And then moving on to the next page, you

23 write, "laying on mat"?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. "Laying on mat"?



Page 99

1 A. Yes.


3 A. Yes.


5 A. Yes.


7 A. Yes.

8 Q. And then three entries of "laying on floor on

9 mat"?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. And this is at about -- brings us to about

12 2:00 a.m. on April 20th.

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. And then you write at 2:30, "Deputy Turner

15 and Corporal Maas cover inmate with blanket." Could

16 you tell me about that?

17 A. At one point, he must have kicked off his

18 blanket, um, so he was just laying there uncovered. I

19 don't remember exactly why those two deputies assisted

20 with that, but they had gone into his cell to cover him

21 back up so that way he's not uncovered.

22 Q. And then about half an hour after that, you

23 write, "laying on mat, shaking" --

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. -- at 3:00 a.m.?



Page 100

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Does that refer to Mr. Walter's body shaking

3 or shuddering as he laid?


5 Q. And, again, the entire body shaking or

6 shuddering, as far as you can remember?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. And that appeared to be involuntary, so far

9 as you could tell?



12 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) And then you have two entries

13 of "laying on mat"?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. And then "Laying on mat/removed blanket"?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. That -- what does that refer to, the removal

18 of the blanket?

19 A. He probably pushed his blanket off or kicked

20 it off.

21 Q. And then four minutes later you write,

22 "Standing up/" and then I can't read that next word.

23 A. Pacing.

24 Q. Pacing?

25 A. Yes, sir.



Page 101

1 Q. So he's pacing in his cell --

2 A. Yes, sir.

3 Q. -- with no apparent purpose?

4 A. Correct.

5 Q. And then half an hour later at 5:00 a.m.,

6 "sitting on bench/yelling"?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Again, nonsensical yelling, so far as you

9 could tell?

10 A. Yes, sir.

11 Q. And then "sitting on Bench"?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. And "laying on mat"?

14 A. Yes, sir.

15 Q. And then that's your last entry on this form,

16 correct?

17 A. Yes, sir.

18 Q. Now, when you were making the entries on the

19 Inmate welfare check list, could you see all the

20 entries that had been made on the Inmate welfare check

21 list up to the -- before you by other detention

22 deputies?

23 A. Yes, sir.

24 Q. So you were aware of what they were observing

25 in addition to what you were observing?



Page 102

1 A. Yes, I could read it.

2 Q. Hand you now what's been marked Exhibit 12 to

3 your deposition. These are a series of Inmate Notes,

4 and I believe that some of these Inmate Notes were

5 authored by you. Did you create all of the Inmate

6 Notes that are indicated with the Call No. 352?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. So just drawing your attention to the first

9 entry that appears to be made by you on 4-17-2014, did

10 you make the following entry at 1:05 a.m.? "I checked

11 on Inmate Walter because of his continuous screaming."

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. And then from time to time I'll just stop and

14 ask you some follow-up. So as of April 17th at

15 approximately 1:00 a.m., it was the case that

16 Mr. Walter was continuously screaming?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. And did that continuous screaming make sense

19 to you? Was there something that had occurred or some

20 reason that you could see that Mr. Walter was screaming

21 continuously at 1:00 a.m. in the morning?

22 A. Anything that could have come up that I would

23 have recognized, I did not see anything, no.

24 Q. Okay. So as far as you could tell at 4:00 --

25 on 4-17 at 1:00 in the morning, Mr. Walter is up



Page 103

1 continuously screaming for no apparent reason?

2 A. Correct.

3 Q. And then you say, "at the time he had been

4 sitting on his bench just making noise." What do you

5 mean by that?

6 A. He -- it could have been he was just mumbling

7 something that I couldn't understand. Um. Probably

8 like a low tone.

9 Q. So before his continuous screaming commenced

10 at about 1:00 in the morning, he had been sitting on

11 the bench just mumbling?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. And in response to the continuous screaming

14 at 1:00 a.m., you went up to the door and you knocked

15 on his door four times to see if it could catch his

16 attention; is that right?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. "But it didn't bother him." Does that mean

19 that he did not respond to your knocking on the door to

20 try to get his attention?

21 A. Correct.

22 Q. Did it appear that he just didn't even know

23 that you were knocking on the door?

24 A. Correct.

25 Q. And did he ever make eye contact with you or



Page 104

1 appear to be engaged with you like a normal person?

2 A. In this moment, no.

3 Q. Okay. And then it says, "Over the intercom,

4 he was heard whispering something about telling his dad

5 that he didn't kill a boy for money." Could you tell

6 me about the intercom?

7 A. In master control, they have the ability to

8 turn on the intercoms in T pods and the holding cells,

9 whether it's to communicate to somebody or listen to

10 see if there's anything that might require attention.

11 I don't know what brought it up at the time, but in

12 that time master control turned on his intercom and he

13 was heard making that statement.

14 Q. Whispering something by himself in his cell

15 about telling his father that he didn't kill a boy for

16 money?

17 A. Correct.

18 Q. And I take it you don't recall any more

19 specifics?

20 A. No, sir.

21 Q. And then it says, "I also noticed that Walter

22 was rubbing his wrist very hard."

23 A. Correct.

24 Q. Can you tell me about that?

25 A. I don't remember much of it, but if I added



Page 105

1 it to my note, it must have been hard enough that it

2 needed to be documented.

3 Q. All right. So obviously the things that you

4 were observing of Mr. Walter as indicated in this

5 inmate note on 4-17-2014 at 1:00 a.m. were not normal

6 inmate behavior at all, right?

7 A. Correct.

8 Q. So then moving on to your next entry, it

9 says, 4-17-2014, 2254, "Inmate was observed repeatedly

10 hitting the window with an open hand." So is it the

11 case that this entry was about two hours before the

12 entry at 1:00 a.m. that we just went over? I'm sorry.

13 This is -- this is much later. This is your next

14 shift, correct?

15 A. Correct.

16 Q. I see.

17 So at roughly a few minutes before 11:00 p.m.

18 on 4-17-2014, you observed Mr. Walter repeatedly

19 hitting the window with an open hand?

20 A. Correct.

21 Q. And Deputy Cook went out to try to talk to

22 him to get him to stop hitting. "Inmate keeps asking

23 for the 'other people in his cell to get out.'"

24 A. Correct.

25 Q. Can you tell me a little more about that?



Page 106

1 A. I don't know what Mr. Walter had going on in

2 this moment, but when Deputy Cook attempted to get him

3 to stop hitting the door, that was the immediate

4 response Mr. Walter had. And it wasn't a delayed

5 response, it was instant.

6 Q. So Mr. Walter was asking for other people in

7 his cell to get out of his cell?

8 A. Correct.

9 Q. But was there anybody else in Mr. Walter's

10 cell?

11 A. No, sir. He was housed alone.

12 Q. So do you have any idea why Mr. Walter was

13 asking for other people to get out of his cell if there

14 was nobody else in his cell?

15 A. I don't know.

16 Q. Did it appear to you that he might be

17 hallucinating?

18 A. He could have been, but I don't know.

19 Q. But he was obviously of the belief that there

20 were other people in his cell that he wanted out?

21 MR. O'CONNELL: Objection; form and

22 foundation.

23 A. Correct.

24 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) And then there's another

25 entry by you that appears to be made about two hours



Page 107

1 later, just before 1:00 a.m. on April 18, that says,

2 Sergeant Green, Deputies Cook and Turner and I went out

3 to talk to Inmate Walter. Prior to us walking out

4 there we observed him hitting the door continuously

5 again and with a closed fist this time.

6 Could you tell me a little bit more about

7 that, please

8 A. It -- we went out -- me and the other

9 deputies went out because Mr. Walter was hitting the

10 door with a closed fist. Um. That -- in the way that

11 we are trained, that can be taken as an attempt at

12 self-harm, so we needed to put an immediate stop to

13 that behavior at that moment.

14 Q. So Mr. Walter was hitting the door with a

15 closed fist not just once but continuously?

16 A. Correct.

17 Q. And was he hitting it hard enough that you

18 were worried that he was hurting himself or going to

19 hurt himself?

20 A. He was hitting it hard enough, but I don't

21 know if it could have caused him harm, I just know it

22 needed to be stopped.

23 Q. Okay. And then it says, "I stood in front of

24 the door and told Walter that he needed to stop hitting

25 the window. He stopped for a second and started right



Page 108

1 back up." Does that mean he just continued to hit the

2 door with a closed fist?

3 A. Correct. He heard me in that second and went

4 right back to hitting the door.

5 Q. And then it says, I told Walter if he kept

6 hitting the door we would have to put him in the chair.

7 Walter ignored me, and I then asked him to face the

8 back wall and he said, No, I'm not going to. I asked

9 him to face the back wall -- asked him again to face

10 the back wall and he said no.

11 Sergeant Green then told me to tell him that

12 we will go away but he has to stop hitting. I relayed

13 the information to Walter and he said, Okay. Deputy

14 Cook started a video recording on him in case he starts

15 hitting the door again.

16 So I take it at some point he stopped hitting

17 the door?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. And was a video started?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Who started the video?

22 A. I don't remember. I wrote Deputy Cook, so it

23 must have been Deputy Cook.

24 Q. And then there's your final entry in this

25 exhibit on the last page. If you could just take a



Page 109

1 minute and review that entry and let me know if there's

2 anything else that you recall about this other than

3 what you have written.

4 A. I don't remember any more details.

5 Q. Handing you now what's been marked Exhibit 13

6 to your deposition. This is a Jail Incident report

7 that you prepared on April 19, 2014, at approximately

8 11:05 p.m.

9 A. Yes, sir.

10 Q. So was this about an hour after you had come

11 on shift?

12 A. Yes, sir.

13 Q. And it states that, On 4-19-2014, I, Deputy

14 Lightcap, was a third hand in helping Corporal Owen and

15 Deputy Combs move Inmate Walter back to Holding 2.

16 Just starting off with this, do you know

17 Deputy Combs?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. And did you know her to be a diligent and

20 observant detention deputy?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Do you still know her? Do you know Deputy

23 Combs?

24 A. Know her, yes.

25 Q. Did you ever have any issues or concerns with



Page 110

1 her devotion to her job and her attention to issues of

2 concern as it related to innate care?


4 A. No, sir.

5 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) So it says that you and

6 Corporal Owen and Deputy Combs were moving Mr. Walter

7 back to Holding 2. Why were you moving him back to

8 Holding 2?

9 A. When I came on shift, they had been cleaning

10 Holding 2. At about that time they were taking him

11 back to Holding 2, and I assisted in taking him back.

12 Q. Was Holding 2 being cleaned of blood?

13 A. I don't know.

14 Q. Was it being cleaned of urine?

15 A. I don't know.

16 Q. Did it smell like bleach in Holding 2?


18 Q. And then you go on to say, "Some of the

19 things I noticed were the excessive bruises Inmate

20 Walter had all over his body." Tell me about your

21 observations in that regard in as much detail as you

22 can remember.

23 A. I remember on here there were four that stood

24 out, but what I remember right now, the things that

25 stand out that I remember the most were his feet. So



Page 111

1 his right foot was bruised all around the big toe and

2 then coming up the top of his foot. And then his left

3 foot at the time had some blood around the big toenail.

4 I don't know if it was fresh or if it had been like

5 that for a few hours, but I did see it.

6 When he was being assisted back into

7 Holding 2, I know that he did have some other bruises

8 over his body. How they got there, I don't know, um,

9 but they were -- I mean, they were prominent enough for

10 me to need to document it.

11 Q. They were excessive?

12 A. Uh-huh.

13 Q. Yes?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. And they were all over his body?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. And you go on to describe four bruises that

18 stand out the most?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. There was a bruise near his left clavicle/

21 shoulder area that had darkened over the last few days.

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. And two spots that looked like holes that do

24 not seem to be getting better?

25 A. Yes.



Page 112

1 Q. And a second on the right clavicle shoulder

2 area?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. And then another bruise on his right hip

5 area?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. And that bruise was very dark in color?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. And instead of being round, it looks like it

10 has a few lines that wrap around to the front of his

11 body?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. And then you go on to describe a bruise on

14 his right big toe?

15 A. Correct.

16 Q. Now, these are four bruises that stand out

17 the most, but in fact he had excessive bruises all over

18 his body, correct?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. And when you're writing this down, if you had

21 previously observed any type of excessive bruising on

22 previous days, would you have documented that?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. So these -- these were bruises that

25 Mr. Walter had that were not apparent to you



Page 113

1 previously, or at least not apparent in nearly the same

2 degree; is that correct?

3 A. Correct.

4 Q. And then it goes on to say that it looks as

5 if his toe is actually broken. Could you tell me about

6 what that means?

7 A. From the things that I could see with his

8 foot, um, his toe was extremely bruised all the way

9 around. Um. His toe was -- if I remember correctly,

10 it was bent slightly to the side, which I do know he

11 did have a tendency to kick doors sometimes, but it

12 wasn't the kind of kicking that we needed to go out and

13 get him to stop. He would kick and go away and he

14 wouldn't do it again.

15 So it could have been caused from the kicking

16 of the door, along with the bruising.

17 Q. But regardless of what caused it or didn't

18 cause it, it was apparent to you that it looked that

19 his toe was broken?

20 A. Correct.

21 Q. And then you go on to describe a bruise that

22 wraps around the inside of his foot and is very purple

23 in color.

24 A. Correct.

25 Q. And then you conclude that paragraph by



Page 114

1 saying, "There seemed to be more bruises showing up

2 each day." Can you tell me what you mean by that?

3 A. With Mr. Walter, I don't know where the

4 bruises came from or what caused them, um, but he would

5 receive bruises each -- each day, that I could tell.

6 Q. So these were bruises that were accumulating,

7 not bruises that had existed before?

8 A. Correct.

9 Q. And then in the next paragraph, you say,

10 "Another thing I have noticed is his diminishing size."

11 Could you tell me about that, please.

12 A. Mr. Walter was bigger than I am, um, and on

13 this day that I saw Corporal Owen and Deputy Combs

14 assisting Mr. Walter, he was extremely small.

15 Q. So it was obvious to you that Mr. Walter had

16 been losing a lot of weight?

17 A. When I noticed this, yes.

18 Q. In comparison to previous days, it was

19 apparent to you, as of at least 11:00 p.m. on the 19th,

20 that Mr. Walter had lost a lot of weight?

21 A. Correct.

22 Q. He was shrinking?

23 A. Correct.

24 Q. It's not as if you weighed him but just to

25 your eye it was quite obvious that he had lost a lot of



Page 115

1 weight?

2 A. Correct.

3 Q. And then you go on to say, "In Inmate

4 Walter's notes, it stated that he refused all of his

5 trays on 4-18-2014," meaning that he was not eating?

6 A. Correct.

7 Q. And then it goes on to say, "He has been

8 shaking and it seems to be getting worse as well."

9 With regard to the shaking, are you referring to this

10 shuddering or convulsing of his body?


12 A. Yes.

13 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) And that shudders or

14 convulsing was getting progressively worse?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Was it affecting his entire body, at least as

17 of the 19th?


19 A. As of this, yes.

20 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) His whole body was shuddering

21 or shaking. Was it seizure-like?


23 A. I don't know.

24 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) Because you are not medically

25 trained?



Page 116

1 A. Correct.

2 Q. But it was very pronounced, correct?

3 A. Correct.

4 Q. Very extreme shaking or shuddering?


6 A. Correct.

7 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) And it was affecting his

8 whole body?

9 A. Correct.

10 Q. And it appeared to be involuntary?

11 MR. O'CONNELL: Objection to form,

12 foundation.

13 MR. TIEMEIER: Objection to form.

14 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) In other words, it didn't

15 look like he was moving on purpose?

16 A. Correct.

17 Q. And then it goes on to say that "On 4-19-2014

18 Deputy Combs stated that when she went to replace his

19 mat, there was an odor that smelled like urine." Did

20 Deputy Combs report that she had smelled what smelled

21 like urine on his mat?

22 A. I don't know.

23 Q. Do you remember anything else that caused you

24 to write this statement?

25 A. No.



Page 117

1 Q. Mr. Walter did have a toilet in his cell,

2 correct?

3 A. Correct.

4 Q. And it could be flushed?

5 A. Correct.

6 Q. And then it goes on to say, "Another thing I

7 noticed was that his big toe on his left foot had fresh

8 blood showing," and then it concludes by saying, "There

9 also appeared to be dried blood around his toes." Do

10 you recall noticing blood in his cell -- well, I guess

11 by this time it had just been cleaned, right?


13 A. Correct.

14 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) These Inmate Notes that you

15 made on the 19th of April about 11:00 p.m. were made

16 approximately 16 hours before Mr. Walter was found

17 unresponsive. Are you aware of that?

18 A. No.

19 Q. By at least the time that you made these

20 notes, 11:00 p.m. on April 19th, you were personally

21 aware in the -- from the information you had in the

22 days and hours leading up to this and from what you saw

23 at this time that Mr. Walter appeared to be mentally

24 confused, correct?

25 MR. O'CONNELL: Objection to form and



Page 118

1 foundation.

2 MR. TIEMEIER: Same objection.

3 A. I don't know.

4 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) Well, Mr. Walter was talking

5 to the walls, right?

6 A. Correct.

7 Q. He was telling people to get out of his cell

8 who weren't there, correct?

9 A. Correct.

10 Q. He was yelling with no apparent purpose,

11 correct?

12 A. Correct.

13 Q. He was apparently unaware of your presence

14 when you would go up to the cell door and try to engage

15 him in dialogue, correct?

16 A. Correct.

17 Q. He was naked, correct?

18 A. Correct.

19 Q. Inappropriately so because people could see

20 him from looking inside the cell, correct?

21 A. Correct.

22 Q. Did it not appear to you that he was mentally

23 confused?

24 MR. TIEMEIER: Objection.

25 A. Personal to me, his appearance, yes.



Page 119

1 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) So personally to you his

2 appearance led you to conclude in the days leading up

3 to April 19th that Mr. Walter was mentally confused,

4 correct?

5 A. Correct.

6 Q. You also knew as of at least this time,

7 11:00 p.m. on the 19th, that Mr. Walter's behavior had

8 changed dramatically from the first 10 days which he

9 was in T pod, correct?

10 A. Correct.

11 Q. And you knew he had been placed in holding

12 cells for medical watch as of April 15, five days

13 before he was found unresponsive?

14 A. The precise dates, I did not know; but yes,

15 he was put in there to be medically watched.

16 Q. Right. And you knew at least as of

17 April 19th at 11:00 p.m. that Mr. Walter was refusing

18 many of the meals offered to him and not eating,

19 correct?

20 A. Based on the notes I had read, correct.

21 Q. Based on the logbook entries that were posted

22 outside of his cell that anybody could see and that you

23 yourself saw?

24 A. Correct.

25 Q. You also knew from the logbook that not just



Page 120

1 you but many other officers had observed him to be

2 talking to himself and/or yelling?

3 A. Correct.

4 Q. You knew that he was stark naked pretty much

5 all the time in the last several days of his

6 confinement in the holding cell, correct?

7 A. Correct.

8 Q. And you knew that he was talking on an

9 imaginary telephone inside his cell?


11 foundation.

12 A. Correct.

13 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) You knew that he was talking

14 to the sink?

15 A. Correct.

16 Q. You knew that he was talking to the wall?

17 A. Correct.

18 Q. And you knew that he, at times, was rolling

19 around naked on the floor of his cell while yelling,

20 correct?

21 A. That much I never observed.

22 Q. But you saw it from the logbook entry,

23 correct?

24 A. Correct.

25 Q. And you know that Mr. Walter was spending



Page 121

1 time lying naked on the cold floor of his cell without

2 a covering or blanket, correct?

3 A. From the logs, yes.

4 Q. And you knew that he was regularly observed

5 to be shaking, correct?

6 A. Correct.

7 Q. And you yourself observed Mr. Walter's entire

8 body shaking or shuddering?

9 A. Correct.

10 Q. And you knew that the shaking or shuddering

11 was getting progressively worse, correct?

12 A. Correct.

13 Q. You knew that Mr. Walter's body had excessive

14 bruises all over that had not been there when he was

15 first put into the holding cell, correct?

16 A. Correct.

17 Q. You knew that his toe seemed to be broken,

18 correct?

19 A. Correct.

20 Q. You knew that there seemed to be more bruises

21 showing up each day, correct?

22 A. Correct.

23 Q. You knew that Mr. Walter's size was

24 diminishing; that is, that he was becoming visibly

25 smaller to your eye, correct?



Page 122

1 A. Correct.

2 Q. And you made the connection that his

3 diminishing size may be due to his not eating, correct?

4 A. Correct.

5 Q. You also knew that Mr. Walter was bleeding,

6 correct?

7 A. Correct.

8 Q. And you knew that his -- that the wounds from

9 which he was bleeding from were uncovered?

10 A. Correct.

11 Q. That he was not provided with any bandage or

12 anything to cover the wounds that he was bleeding from,

13 correct?

14 A. Correct.

15 Q. You knew that his cell was smelling like

16 urine, correct?

17 A. From the logs, yes.

18 Q. And you also knew that he had blood on his

19 feet or toes?

20 A. Correct.

21 Q. You knew that Mr. Walter was growing

22 physically weak?

23 A. Correct.

24 Q. You were also aware that his appearance,

25 speech, behavior and actions in the days leading up to



Page 123

1 your entry at 11:00 p.m. on the 19th was very bizarre

2 and out of the ordinary, correct?

3 A. Correct.

4 Q. You knew that he was not sleeping, correct?

5 A. Correct.

6 Q. And you knew that for at least 12 hours every

7 day at the jail, including the times that you were on

8 shift, there was no medical person on-site, correct?

9 A. Correct.

10 Q. To your eyes, was it not obvious that

11 Mr. Walter was in medical crisis at least as of

12 11:00 p.m. on the 19th?


14 A. Will you rephrase that, please?

15 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) Was it apparent to you as a

16 detention deputy, untrained in medicine, that

17 Mr. Walter was in a state of some sort of medical

18 crisis --


20 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) -- as of 11:00 p.m. on the

21 19th?


23 foundation.

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) Okay. So earlier you talked



Page 124

1 about Mr. Walter's -- excuse me -- about Miss Combs and

2 about your work with her as a detention deputy, and

3 I've actually taken Miss Combs' deposition as well.

4 A. Okay.

5 Q. She was here too. And I'm going to be

6 handing you some excerpts from her deposition

7 transcript which we have marked as Exhibit 14.

8 A. Okay.

9 Q. And I would just like to ask you a few things

10 about what your former coworker said during her

11 deposition. So if I could just ask you to turn to the

12 page that says 46 in the upper left-hand corner. Yeah,

13 where it's highlighted.

14 A. Okay.

15 Q. And just ask you to read the highlighted

16 language to yourself and let me know when you are done.

17 A. Okay.

18 Q. Did you also observe Mr. Walter's body

19 shaking and shuddering from head to foot as if in

20 voluntarily?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. And then if I could ask you to look at the

23 next page where it's highlighted. And read it to

24 yourself and tell me when you are done.

25 A. Okay.



Page 125

1 Q. Very similar to what you described, do you

2 agree with her description that it looked as if

3 Mr. Walter was very cold, like he was freezing almost?

4 A. Yes, sir.

5 Q. Okay. And then if I could ask you to look at

6 the next highlighted language on Page 48, and let me

7 know when you are done.

8 A. Okay.

9 Q. Do you agree with Miss Combs' description on

10 Pages 48, Lines 5 through 25 as consistent with what

11 you observed of Mr. Walter?

12 A. Correct.

13 Q. And then on Page 49, the first highlighted

14 language on Lines 6 through 8, "Was it as if he almost

15 didn't know you were there?" Answer: "Yes."

16 Was it similar with you, that there were

17 times when Mr. Walter just didn't even seem to know you

18 were there?

19 A. Correct.

20 Q. And then look at the next highlighted

21 language beginning on the bottom of Page 49, Line 25,

22 and if I could ask you to continue to read that until

23 you are done.

24 MR. TIEMEIER: What page?

25 MR. BUDGE: Bottom of Page 49 to top of



Page 126

1 Page 50.

2 MR. TIEMEIER: Thank you.

3 A. Okay.

4 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) Okay. You would agree that

5 Mr. Walter's behavior was pretty bizarre?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. And would you also agree that Mr. Walter was

8 shaking pretty significantly as if he was unable to

9 control it?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. And you also agree that he was -- from your

12 observation appeared to be mentally confused and

13 possibly even unaware of his surroundings?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. And did it also appear to you that he may

16 have been hallucinating?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Looking to the next page, 52, the highlighted

19 language --

20 A. Okay.

21 Q. -- did you -- did it appear to you that when

22 you saw Mr. Walter in the -- on the last day,

23 April 19th at 11:00 p.m. -- did Mr. Walter appear to

24 you to be capable of holding a cup up to his lips?

25 A. No, sir.



Page 127

1 Q. It didn't look like he could hold a cup up to

2 his lips?

3 A. No, sir.

4 Q. Why is that?

5 A. The shaking. I don't think he could have

6 held anything with how much he was shaking.

7 Q. And you actually also never saw him eat

8 anything, correct?

9 A. Correct.

10 Q. In the entire five-day period you were

11 checking on him?

12 A. Correct.

13 Q. So going on to Page 56 near the top, Lines 3

14 through 8.

15 A. Okay.

16 Q. Similarly, you would agree that it was

17 apparent that Mr. Walter was losing a lot of weight

18 real fast?

19 A. Correct.

20 Q. Page 61, did Mr. Walter look pretty bad to

21 you, Miss Gonzales?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. And if you could take a look at Page 61,

24 Line 24 and then continue on to the next page.

25 Were you also very concerned about



Page 128

1 Mr. Walter's medical situation?

2 A. Yes, sir.

3 Q. And then if I could just ask you to go ahead

4 and flip to Page 63 where it's highlighted, and then

5 you can just continue on until halfway down on Page 64.

6 A. Okay.

7 Q. Did you also come to the conclusion that

8 Mr. Walter's condition had deteriorated quite rapidly?

9 A. Yes, sir.

10 Q. And that it was obvious that he was going

11 downhill?

12 A. Correct.

13 Q. And, again, he was confused?

14 A. Yes, sir.

15 Q. He was behaving bizarrely?

16 A. Yes, sir.

17 Q. He was shaking uncontrollably?

18 A. Yes, sir.

19 Q. He was not eating?

20 A. Yes, sir.

21 Q. He was not sleeping?

22 A. Yes, sir.

23 Q. Did you observe his eyes twitching?

24 A. I never paid attention to that, so I don't

25 know.



Page 129

1 Q. All right. And did you see him lying on the

2 cold floor naked and shaking?

3 A. I don't recall.

4 Q. Mr. Walter was not making sense; is that

5 correct?

6 A. Correct.

7 Q. And now if I could direct your attention to

8 the middle of Page 65. Question: "Was Medical fully

9 aware of everything you were aware of?" Answer: "I

10 would say yes."

11 Do you know whether Medical was fully aware

12 of all of the things that you were aware of?

13 A. From the pass-down I received of other

14 deputies, yes.

15 Q. So I would like to follow up with you on that

16 now and ask you to tell me everything that you remember

17 about the information that you got that led you to

18 believe that Medical -- and when I say "Medical," I

19 mean the nurses at the jail, particularly Nurse Maestas

20 and Nurse Repshire -- were fully aware of all of the

21 things that you were aware of.


23 A. Anytime I would come onto shift, I would talk

24 to the deputies in the booking area in regards to what

25 happened in T pod or anybody in the holding cells.



Page 130

1 When it came to Mr. Walter's situation, a very common,

2 like, general thing I heard was, We spoke with the

3 medical staff, we went to their office, we caught them

4 in passing, we told them when they were in the booking

5 area everything that we saw and everything that was

6 documented.

7 Where it went from there as far as Medical

8 taking action, I don't know because there was no

9 medical staff on my shift.

10 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) Right. The information that

11 you were receiving from the pass-down, was it coming to

12 you from Corporal Maas --

13 A. No.

14 Q. -- among others?

15 A. No, sir. Well --

16 Q. How about --

17 A. It would be anybody who -- whose position I

18 would actually relieve, so not Corporal Maas or the

19 afternoon corporal because I don't have that rank, but

20 like Miss Combs, for example, she worked the afternoon

21 shift while I was on the graveyard shift, so she'd be

22 somebody whose position I would take over at that

23 point.

24 Q. So the detention deputies working at the

25 Fremont County jail were telling you when you would



Page 131

1 come onto your shift that Medical, consisting of Nurses

2 Maestas and Repshire, were fully aware of everything

3 that you yourself were aware of?

4 A. Correct, sir.

5 Q. And you heard that information from the

6 detention deputies in the course and scope of your

7 duties and their duties --

8 A. Correct.

9 Q. -- passing down important information from

10 their shift on your shift?

11 A. Correct.

12 Q. And that would have included Deputy Combs?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. And who else would it have included?

15 A. I don't remember who else was on the

16 afternoon or day shift. I know there would be moments

17 where if Corporal Maas was not available, Corporal

18 Owen, since he was in the booking area as well, would

19 give me his pass-down of information as well.

20 Q. Would you have gotten that same information

21 that you just described from Corporal Owen?

22 A. Correct.

23 Q. And the information that you got from

24 Corporal Owen and Deputy Combs and others led you to

25 the conclusion that Nurse Maestas was fully aware of



Page 132

1 everything that you were aware of with regard to

2 Mr. Walter?

3 A. Yes, sir.

4 Q. And that Miss Repshire was fully aware of

5 what you were aware of with regard to Mr. Walter?

6 A. Yes, sir.

7 Q. If I could direct your attention to the top

8 of Page 69, beginning on Line 2, the question was asked

9 of Deputy Combs, "So you were aware from your coworkers

10 that Mr. Walter's deteriorating condition was a big

11 enough deal that it had gone all the way up to the

12 sheriff?" Answer: "Yes." "And it had gone to

13 Commander Rankin?" Answer: "Yes."

14 Stopping there for the moment, do you know

15 one way or the other or did you have information one

16 way or the other about whether Mr. Walter's

17 deteriorating condition had gone up to the sheriff?


19 Q. How about with regard to going up to

20 Commander Rankin?

21 A. I don't know.

22 Q. Another question was asked, "And you were

23 under the impression that pretty much the entire jail

24 staff was aware of Mr. Walter's deteriorating

25 condition?" Answer: "Yes."



Page 133

1 Were you also under that impression, that

2 pretty much the entire jail staff was aware of

3 Mr. Walter's condition as you've described it today in

4 your deposition?

5 A. Yes, sir.

6 Q. And that information was being conveyed to

7 you through detention deputies and corporals as part of

8 their regular duties as detention deputies and

9 corporals at the jail?

10 A. Yes, sir.

11 Q. Had you ever seen anything like this happen

12 before?

13 A. No.

14 Q. Was it surprising to you?

15 A. Yes.


17 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) Was it disturbing to you?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Tell me about that. Tell me how you were

20 feeling inside as you were working, with regard to

21 Mr. Walter and the last day leading up to his death.

22 A. I would say I was very confused about the

23 whole situation, um, purely because his situation

24 should not have gone that route, I believe. I believe

25 it should have been handled much more carefully than it



Page 134

1 was. Those that I worked with as deputies, we followed

2 our policies and reporting and documenting and doing

3 what we could, but I don't think we could have done any

4 more ourselves to help him. I think the help that he

5 needed, needed to come from the medical staff.

6 Q. Needed to come from Nurse Repshire and

7 Nurse Maestas?

8 A. Whoever was working, yes.

9 Q. As you were watching what was happening with

10 Mr. Walter and understanding that it was continuing,

11 were you disturbed inside?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. And did you feel as if the hands of the

14 detention personnel were tied, so to speak, by

15 Medical's failure to respond?

16 A. So to speak, yes.

17 Q. If Mr. Walter had any chance of getting to a

18 hospital -- well, first of all, did you feel that

19 Mr. Walter belonged in a hospital?

20 A. He needed to be there, yes.

21 Q. Was that obvious to you --

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. -- that he was not fit to be confined in that

24 cell?

25 A. Correct.



Page 135

1 Q. If anything was to be done for Mr. Walter in

2 terms of taking him to the hospital, was it the policy

3 of the jail that he would first have to be approved by

4 either Nurse Maestas or Nurse Repshire that he go to

5 the hospital?


7 Q. And, similarly, if any outside provider was

8 brought in for the purpose of helping Mr. Walter

9 medically, was it your understanding that it was either

10 Repshire or Nurse Maestas that had to approve that,

11 according to jail policy?


13 Q. Let me just ask you, did you ever take it

14 upon yourself to call an outside medical provider?

15 A. No, sir.

16 Q. Why not?

17 A. That -- that's something that would need to

18 be done through my supervisors. I expressed my concern

19 to my supervisors, and how they took it from there was

20 up to them.

21 Q. What did you tell your supervisors?

22 A. I would mention to them, you know, what I'm

23 seeing in that moment. If I were to go out to

24 Holding 2 and look into the window, if he's doing

25 something that raises concern, I would mention it to my



Page 136

1 corporal or my sergeant.

2 Q. Either Corporal Maas or Sergeant Green?

3 A. Correct.

4 Q. Did you tell them that you thought he needed

5 to be in a hospital?

6 A. No, sir.

7 Q. Did you ever consider just picking up the

8 phone and calling 911?

9 A. No, sir.

10 Q. Why not?

11 A. That's something that would have been up to

12 my supervisor.

13 Q. Did you tell them that you thought he needed

14 medical help?

15 A. No, sir.

16 Q. Why not?

17 A. It was known across -- through all of us that

18 he needed more help than he was receiving.

19 Q. If Mr. Walter had been a member of your

20 family, a loved one of yours, would you have done

21 anything differently?

22 A. I don't know.

23 Q. Why do you think that Mr. Walter was

24 neglected by medical staff?




Page 137

1 MR. BUDGE: Object to form and foundation.

2 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) Do you think Mr. Walter was

3 neglected by medical staff?

4 A. To a degree yes.

5 Q. Why do you think that happened?


7 A. I didn't know the medical staff very well

8 because I didn't work with them as often as other

9 shifts did.

10 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) Did you ever form the

11 impression that Mr. Walter was withdrawing from

12 something?

13 A. No, sir.

14 Q. Did you ever see Mr. Walter -- well, let me

15 strike that question.

16 If I could just ask you to open up that

17 exhibit that you just had and ask you to turn to

18 Page 74, upper left-hand corner. The question was

19 asked, "Did you ever see any violent or aggressive

20 behavior by Mr. Walter?" Answer: "Personally, no."

21 Did you ever see any aggressive or violent

22 behavior by Mr. Walter?

23 A. Anything that was directed to an individual,

24 no, but I did witness him hitting the door.

25 Q. Right. Putting aside for the moment hitting



Page 138

1 the door, did you ever see him engaging in any type of

2 threatening behavior toward a member of jail staff?

3 A. No, sir.

4 Q. Did you ever see him engage in any type of

5 aggressive behavior toward jail staff?

6 A. No, sir.

7 Q. Any threat of violence toward jail staff?

8 A. No, sir.

9 Q. Any violence, aggressiveness, threats of

10 aggression or anything of that nature that you ever

11 observed Mr. Walter engage in toward any other person?

12 A. None that I personally saw, no.

13 Q. And was there ever an occasion where you

14 refused to interact with Mr. Walter because you feared

15 for your safety?

16 A. No, sir.

17 Q. Do you believe that Mr. Walter was in a --

18 ever acting in such a way that a member of medical

19 staff could not safely evaluate him?

20 A. No, sir.

21 Q. And did you ever actually have any

22 conversation with any member of medical staff about

23 Mr. Walter?

24 A. No, sir.

25 Q. And that was because there was no staff --



Page 139

1 medical staff member there during the hours that you

2 worked?

3 A. Correct.

4 Q. Who was taking care of Mr. Walter from a

5 medical point of view during the 12 hours that there

6 was no medical person on staff, including the 8 hours

7 that you worked every day?

8 A. From a medical point of view, I don't know.

9 Q. Is the answer nobody?

10 MR. TIEMEIER: Object to form, asked and

11 answered.

12 A. The deputies could only step in as much as we

13 were allowed. For a medical professional, no, there

14 was no one there.

15 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) So when you worked there and

16 given everything that you observed and everything you

17 saw and all the conclusions that you formed and the way

18 that you were feeling inside, during the hours that you

19 worked there, from 10:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m. every day,

20 Mr. Walter was without medical care of any kind,

21 correct?

22 A. Correct.

23 Q. Did you ever hear anybody make any jokes

24 about Mr. Walter or his condition?

25 A. No, sir.



Page 140

1 Q. Did you ever hear anybody refer to him as a

2 junkie, an addict or anything like that?

3 A. No, sir.

4 Q. Okay. I'm going to be handing you some

5 photographs of Mr. Walter's body.

6 A. Okay.

7 Q. These are marked as Exhibit 15. I would like

8 you to -- Exhibit 15 through 44.

9 A. Okay.

10 Q. And I'm just going to ask you whether these

11 photographs accurately show the condition of

12 Mr. Walter's body as you observed it as of April 19th

13 at 11:00 p.m. as documented in your incident report.

14 Did those accurately show the condition of

15 Mr. Walter's body, from what you were able to observe,

16 as of 11:00 p.m. on April 19th?

17 A. Yes, sir.

18 Q. Why did you leave the employment of the

19 Fremont County Sheriff's Office?

20 A. My husband took a job up in the northern part

21 of Colorado, so I chose to go with him.

22 Q. Okay. Did you ever hear Mr. Walter say

23 anything about Klonopin or his need for Klonopin?

24 A. No, sir.

25 Q. Were you concerned that Mr. Walter was not



Page 141

1 being provided with adequate medical care by the

2 nurses, including Maestas and Repshire?

3 A. Yes, sir.

4 Q. Did it ever appear to you in the last five

5 days of his confinement that Mr. Walter was physically

6 or mentally able to fill out a written inmate medical

7 request form, or kite?

8 A. No, sir.

9 Q. Did you regularly hear the other members of

10 the jail staff in connection with their duties saying

11 that they were concerned that Mr. Walter was not being

12 provided with adequate medical care by nursing staff?

13 A. Yes, sir.

14 Q. Were they all frustrated?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. And they communicated that to you?

17 A. Yes, sir.

18 Q. Was it ever discussed amongst staff at this

19 time that Mr. Walter -- that the failure of medical to

20 properly attend to Mr. Walter was -- fit a pattern of

21 some sort by Miss Maestas, that that is the way she

22 is --


24 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) -- or anything of that nature?

25 A. I don't know for sure.



Page 142

1 Q. Did you ever hear anybody express particular

2 frustration at Miss Maestas?

3 A. Yes, sir.

4 Q. What did you hear?

5 A. Um. I would hear things about how she would

6 talk down to an inmate, she would be very rude to an

7 inmate, but I wasn't given like specific examples of

8 what had happened in those instance.

9 Q. But I guess what I'm saying -- and I

10 understand why my question was confusing.

11 In the days leading up to Mr. Walter's death,

12 did detention deputies or supervisory personnel express

13 particular frustration at Miss Maestas with regard to

14 Mr. Walter?

15 A. Yes, sir.

16 Q. Okay. What was expressed?

17 A. Her lack of urgency in his -- in his instance

18 and like her attitude of just not -- seeming to not

19 want to help him function.

20 Q. And who was -- not seeming to want to provide

21 him with the care that he obviously required?

22 A. Yes, sir.


24 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) And who was communicating

25 that?



Page 143

1 A. It would generally come from the booking

2 deputies, those of us that dealt with Mr. Walter the

3 most.

4 Q. Was it also coming from the corporal and the

5 sergeant?

6 A. My direct ones, no; but the afternoon

7 corporal, which is Corporal Owen, yes.

8 Q. So Corporal Owen and the other detention

9 deputies in the course and scope of their job there at

10 the jail were telling you that they were upset,

11 essentially, with Miss Maestas for not attending to

12 Mr. Walter's obvious needs?

13 A. Yes, sir.

14 Q. Did you ever witness any detention deputy use

15 force against Mr. Walter?

16 A. No, sir.

17 Q. Do you know how any of these injuries might

18 have occurred that we see that are indicated on the

19 photographs that you have in front of you?


21 Q. Did you ever see anything happen that you

22 believe might account for broken ribs, not in the front

23 but in the back where the ribs connect to the spinal

24 column?

25 A. No, sir.



Page 144

1 Q. Anything that you ever saw that might account

2 for internal bleeding?

3 A. No, sir.

4 Q. Did Commander Rankin and Kathy Maestas have a

5 romantic relationship?

6 A. I don't know.

7 Q. Was it rumored that they did?

8 A. I've heard of it, but it was before I even

9 started with the County.

10 Q. Okay. After Mr. Walter passed away, and with

11 the exception of any attorney, with whom have you

12 spoken about what happened?

13 A. Just my husband.

14 Q. Did any person with the County or the Fremont

15 County Sheriff's Office ever seek to interview you or

16 collect any information from you about what you knew

17 leading up to Mr. Walter's death?

18 A. No, sir.

19 Q. If they had sought to interview you or

20 collect information about -- from you about what you

21 knew, would you have had any problems talking with them

22 and telling them everything that you told me today?

23 A. I would not have said anything.

24 Q. You would what?

25 A. I would not say anything.



Page 145

1 Q. Why not?

2 A. More than likely, it's not their business.

3 Q. Well, I'm referring actually to the County

4 itself.

5 A. Oh.

6 Q. Yeah. If the County -- if the Fremont County

7 Sheriff's Office or the sheriff himself or some

8 designee of the sheriff had said, Miss Lightcap, we are

9 investigating what happened, we would like to sit down

10 and talk with you about what you know and what you

11 observed and so on leading up to Mr. Walter's death,

12 would you have any problem providing them with any of

13 the information you are providing me today?

14 A. No, sir.

15 Q. And, similarly, if Detective Miller of the

16 Fremont County Sheriff's Office in connection with his

17 investigation had ever sought to interview you or

18 collect any information from you, would you have had

19 any hesitation about sitting down with him and telling

20 him what you knew?

21 A. No.

22 Q. Did anybody from Correctional Healthcare

23 Companies or any designees of that entity or any

24 related entity sit down with you or seek to sit down

25 with you and learn from you what you knew?



Page 146

1 A. No, sir.

2 Q. Would you have had any problem talking with

3 them if they had?

4 A. No, sir.

5 Q. And so I take it that day, outside of the

6 exception of any conversations that you may have had

7 with an attorney, today is the first day, two and a

8 half years later, that you've actually had occasion to

9 be asked --

10 A. Yes, sir.

11 Q. -- about what happened, right?

12 A. Yes, sir.

13 Q. And I take it that you believe that what

14 happened to Mr. Walter was wrong?

15 A. Yes, sir.

16 Q. Do you -- in preparing for your deposition

17 today, did you review any documents or materials that

18 we haven't already looked at?

19 A. No, sir.

20 MR. BUDGE: That's all I have.

21 THE DEPONENT: Okay.

22 MR. TIEMEIER: Why don't we take about a

23 five-minute break. I've got a few questions.

24 (A recess was taken from 12:19 p.m. to a

25 12:28 p.m.)



Page 147

1 EXAMINATION

2 MR. TIEMEIER:

3 Q. Miss Gonzales, did you have a Taser when you

4 worked at Fremont County detention facility?

5 A. No, sir.

6 Q. Have you seen one?

7 A. Yes, sir.

8 Q. Can you describe it to me, please.

9 A. It is a small electrical device that is used

10 in gaining compliance with an inmate who is actively

11 resisting any situation.

12 Q. Have you ever seen one used?

13 A. No, sir.

14 Q. What does it look like? Does it look like a

15 gun?

16 A. It has a similar form, but it's much smaller.

17 Q. All right. How is the electrical -- it's an

18 electrical device, I take it?

19 A. Yes, sir.

20 Q. And how was the electricity transmitted to

21 the inmate who was resisting?

22 A. It depends on how you plan to use the Taser.

23 There's two options in which a Taser can be used.

24 There is a detachable cartridge that when you pull the

25 trigger of the Taser it will deploy two electrical



Page 148

1 cords that will stick to the individual and send the

2 electricity that way, or you can remove the cartridge

3 and you can set the electric probes against the skin

4 and you can pull the Taser and it will emit electricity

5 that way.

6 Q. Electric probes. What did the electric

7 probes look like?

8 A. I've never seen the probe, sir.

9 Q. Okay. Are they like little prongs that you

10 put on the skin?

11 A. I don't know. I've never seen them.

12 Q. Never saw them. Okay.

13 Were you aware from either talking to people

14 at the jail or a review of the records at the jail

15 regarding Mr. Walter that there were at least two

16 incidents where use of force was -- where there was use

17 of force reports because there was use of force on

18 Mr. Walter?

19 A. Yes, sir.

20 Q. What are you aware of in that regard?

21 A. Just that there had been uses of force done

22 with Mr. Walter, but the reason why and how it was

23 handled I'm unaware of.

24 Q. Okay. Did you read the use of force reports?

25 A. No, sir.



Page 149

1 Q. Do you know what a drive stun is?

2 A. Yes, sir.

3 Q. What is a drive stun?

4 A. If a Taser in which the cartridge is

5 attached, has been deployed. If the initial stun is

6 not, I guess, reacted to and they are still actively

7 resisting, you take the taser and you find a major

8 muscle in which you can place the Taser against, and

9 you can pull the trigger to emit electricity to try to

10 gain compliance that way.

11 Q. Okay. If a drive stun was applied to

12 Mr. Walter's left shoulder blade, do you know whether

13 that would result in any bruising or injury at all?

14 A. I don't know. I mean, there's electricity

15 coming from it so it could leave marks of where the

16 electricity has touched the skin.

17 Q. Where the two prongs touch the skin?

18 A. Yes, sir.

19 Q. Do you know what a shoulder pin is?

20 A. Yes, sir.

21 Q. What is a shoulder pin?

22 A. It is a move that, as deputies, we are taught

23 to use to place an individual on the ground, and it

24 incapacitates them from moving. It puts them in a

25 position where they don't have control of their arm;



Page 150

1 that way they are not actively resisting against us, as

2 deputies, or those who are fighting against us.

3 Q. What is a compression used in conjunction

4 with a shoulder pin?

5 A. If compression is being applied with a

6 shoulder pin, more than likely it's just moving the arm

7 in a position that's more uncomfortable for the

8 individual who the shoulder pin is being used on.

9 Q. Okay. How is a shoulder pin -- can you

10 describe how a shoulder -- how you would go about

11 applying a shoulder pin to an inmate? What do you do

12 with your arms, their arms, whatever?

13 A. With the individual who's resisting, the way

14 you would use the shoulder pin effectively is they

15 would need to be lying on their chest, whichever arm

16 you have in hand is going to be brought up behind them,

17 and you are going to bend their wrist down just a

18 little bit so that way they have no use of their wrist

19 at that time.

20 Q. Is that a shoulder pin or a compression wrist

21 lock?

22 A. You could apply a compression wrist lock

23 while in the shoulder pin. I guess it would depend

24 upon how fast that individual is complying with you or

25 how much they are actively resisting to determine what



Page 151

1 kind of pressure you would need to gain that

2 compliance.

3 Q. When did you learn how to apply a shoulder

4 pin?

5 A. I learned back in December 2013 when I was

6 initially hired.

7 Q. Would a shoulder pin or compression wrist

8 lock, either of those, or compressions used in

9 conjunction with a shoulder pin -- could any of those

10 things result in bruising?

11 MR. BUDGE: Object to the form.

12 A. I'm sure it could.

13 Q. (BY MR. TIEMEIER) How about a hypoglossal

14 pressure point; do you know what that is?

15 A. Yes, sir.

16 Q. Would you describe that, please?

17 A. The hyperglossal --

18 Q. Hypoglossal.

19 A. -- hypoglossal pressure point is right on the

20 inside of your jawbone here. There are two pressure

21 points. When you use it, you use the digital tip of

22 your thumb to apply that pressure to gain compliance on

23 the individual who's actively resisting.

24 Q. Could that result in a bruise?

25 MR. BUDGE: Object to form.



Page 152

1 A. I'm sure it could. I've never seen it cause

2 a bruise.

3 Q. (BY MR. TIEMEIER) Have you ever looked?

4 A. No, sir.

5 Q. Speaking of that, you mentioned that

6 during -- in the dress-out area that a deputy should

7 note any injuries to the inmate/detainee while they are

8 showering.

9 A. Yes, sir.

10 Q. Is that the primary purpose of a dress-out?

11 A. No, sir.

12 Q. What's the primary purpose of a dress-out?

13 A. The primary purpose of a dress-out is to

14 check for any other contraband.

15 Q. When you were -- did you ever do work in the

16 dress-out area?

17 A. Yes, sir.

18 Q. When you were -- were you trained to work in

19 the dress-out area?

20 A. Yes, sir.

21 Q. When you were trained to work in the

22 dress-out area, were you told that one of your -- that

23 a -- one of your duties was to make note of any

24 injuries that the inmate had at the time they were

25 dressing out?



Page 153

1 A. Yes, sir.

2 Q. And did you do that?

3 A. If I had an individual who I was dressing out

4 and I recognized something that needed to be addressed,

5 yes, sir.

6 Q. So every time an inmate had a bruise or a

7 scrape, you would note that?

8 A. Yes, sir.

9 Q. Without fail?

10 A. Without fail.

11 Q. So no inmate ever got dressed out in front of

12 you without you noting every injury on their body?

13 A. Yes, sir.

14 Q. Were all the deputies that careful?

15 A. I don't know.

16 Q. Now, you said you never noticed any scrapes

17 or bruises or any injuries at all to Mr. Walter

18 before -- what was the time of your report? -- the

19 19th; is that right?

20 A. Can you repeat the question, sir?

21 Q. Did you note any injuries at all, whether

22 scrapes, bruises, cuts, anything of that nature, to

23 Mr. Walter before your April 19 report?

24 A. No, sir.

25 Q. So April 19 was the first you noticed any



Page 154

1 scrapes, bruises, injuries at all?

2 A. I noticed them, but I made note of it on

3 April 19th.

4 Q. Okay. When did you first notice them?

5 A. I don't remember, sir.

6 Q. Why did you not make note of those injuries

7 at that time?

8 A. I don't know, sir.

9 Q. What injuries did he have the first time you

10 noticed them?

11 A. The bruises that stood out to me the most.

12 Q. The ones mentioned in your April 19 report?

13 A. Yes, sir.

14 Q. And, again, you can't remember why it is you

15 didn't note those at the time you first noticed them?

16 A. Correct, sir.

17 Q. When an inmate dresses out, describe to me

18 the jail clothes that they receive. Let's say that

19 they received in April of 2014.

20 A. With Fremont County, they received two

21 shirts, two pants, pair of shoes, they receive their

22 bedding, their shower stuff, like a towel and hygiene

23 products, a mattress, and then a cup.

24 Q. Thank you.

25 Do they get socks?



Page 155

1 A. With Fremont County, no, sir.

2 Q. What do the shoes look like?

3 A. They are black shoes. Um. They are rubber,

4 and there's usually holes on the top of the shoes.

5 Q. Do they cover the top of the foot, the toes,

6 and come around the heel?

7 A. Yes, sir.

8 Q. So it's like slip-on shoes?

9 A. Yes, sir.

10 Q. Like a -- kind of like a Croc?

11 A. Yes, sir.

12 Q. And the shirt, is that a long-sleeved shirt,

13 a short-sleeved shirt? About where on the arm does it

14 come: by the bicep, the elbow, the forearm?

15 A. With the average person, it would come down

16 to the bicep.

17 Q. Okay. You were working on April 3, April 4th

18 and April 5th, correct?

19 A. Yes, sir.

20 Q. If you want to look at Exhibit 2 -- it's

21 already been gone over.

22 A. Yes, sir.

23 Q. And on those dates, you made no note of any

24 injuries, correct, to Mr. Walter?

25 A. Correct.



Page 156

1 Q. Do you have Exhibit 8 in front of you there?

2 Let me know when you have it.

3 A. Yes, sir, I have it.

4 Q. And looking on the left column, about the

5 middle of the page, it says next to "Skin marks,"

6 "Scratches."

7 A. Okay.

8 Q. Do you know where those scratches were?

9 A. No, sir. I did not book him in.

10 Q. But you did see him, correct?


12 Q. You saw Mr. Walter on April 3rd, 4th and 5th?

13 A. I must have, yes.

14 Q. At any time on April 3rd, 4th and 5th, did

15 you make note of any of the scratches that were made

16 note of by the booking deputy?

17 A. No, sir.

18 Q. Did you make any note of those scratches on

19 April 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th or 12th?

20 A. No, sir.

21 Q. Make notes of those scratches on April 15th,

22 16th, 17th or 18th?

23 A. No, sir.

24 Q. You worked full shifts all those days,

25 correct?



Page 157

1 A. Yes, sir.

2 Q. And towards the -- when did Mr. Walter start

3 taking his suicide smock off and -- so that he was

4 naked?


6 Q. It was before April 19, though, correct?

7 A. Yes, sir.

8 Q. Do you think it's possible that Mr. Walter

9 had injuries that you were not aware of before you

10 first noted them?

11 A. That is possible, yes.

12 Q. Would you say it's probable, given the fact

13 that the booking deputy specifically noted them on

14 April 3rd and you have no notation of them until

15 April 19th?

16 A. Yes, sir.


18 A. Yes, sir.

19 Q. (BY MR. TIEMEIER) Did you ever ask

20 Mr. Walter to remove his clothing so you could inspect

21 him for bruises, contusions, abrasions, scratches,

22 anything like that?

23 A. No, sir.

24 Q. Did you know that he had been in a motorcycle

25 accident shortly before he had been booked into the



Page 158

1 jail?

2 A. No, sir.


4 Q. (BY MR. TIEMEIER) Did you know that he

5 reported upon being arrested that he had been in a

6 motorcycle accident and had injuries from that

7 accident?


9 A. Can you repeat that one, please.

10 Q. (BY MR. TIEMEIER) Did you know that when he

11 was arrested he reported that he had been in a

12 motorcycle accident shortly before his arrest and had

13 injuries from that accident?


15 A. No, sir.

16 Q. (BY MR. TIEMEIER) When is the first time you

17 noticed Mr. Walter's bloody toe that you believe now

18 may have been broken?

19 A. The day that I wrote report.

20 Q. The 19th?

21 A. Yes, sir.

22 Q. Had he been wearing his footwear before then?

23 A. No, sir. When he was put in the holding

24 cell, he could have started off wearing his shoes, but

25 I don't remember. Toward the end, no, he did not have



Page 159

1 his shoes on.

2 Q. So when he was naked, he was not wearing his

3 shoes also?

4 A. Correct.

5 Q. Before then when he was not naked, when he

6 was generally wearing his prison clothes, did he also

7 wear his shoes?

8 A. I don't know for sure.

9 Q. Do you know when it was that his toes became

10 injured?

11 A. No, sir.

12 Q. Did you ever ask him to remove his shoes so

13 you could inspect them?

14 A. No, sir.

15 Q. Medical was not working usually during your

16 shift, right?

17 A. Correct, sir.

18 Q. Did you ever see them working during your

19 shift?

20 A. Only when they came in for their shift.

21 Q. In the morning?

22 A. Yes, sir.

23 Q. Were you told when you started working there

24 that Medical, although not present on the facility, was

25 available on-call if you needed to call someone for a



Page 160

1 medical issue?

2 A. I don't remember being told that, so no.

3 Q. Were you ever aware of that?

4 A. No, sir.

5 Q. Did you ever ask?

6 A. No, sir.

7 Q. You said that -- you have been asked by

8 counsel for Mr. Walter's estate whether you ever called

9 Medical to ask him to be sent out to the emergency

10 room. I believe you said no, that that was not for you

11 to do but you did express your concerns to the

12 supervisor. Did I get that right?

13 A. Correct, sir.

14 Q. What -- when you told the supervisors, what

15 did you tell them?

16 A. I would inform them of the things that I had

17 witnessed during my observation.

18 Q. Okay. Did you ever get any feedback from

19 them, either immediately or afterwards?

20 A. No, sir.

21 Q. So you don't know what they did about your

22 complaints to the supervisor?

23 A. Correct.

24 Q. You were asked several questions about

25 Kathy Maestas, and you said something about, I would



Page 161

1 hear things about Miss Maestas talking down to inmates.

2 Do you have any personal knowledge, from your own

3 personal observation, of Miss Maestas ever talking down

4 to the inmates?

5 A. No, sir.

6 Q. Do you have from your personal knowledge,

7 from your personal observation, any knowledge of her

8 not being responsive to an inmate's medical needs?

9 A. No, sir.

10 Q. Would it be fair to say that everything that

11 you know about Miss Maestas came from listening to what

12 other people were saying?

13 A. Yes, sir.

14 Q. Same questions with respect to Miss Repshire;

15 was everything you knew about Miss Repshire based on

16 what other people told you?

17 A. Yes, sir.

18 Q. Was everything you knew about Miss Doughty,

19 Monica Doughty, was that also based on what other

20 people told you?

21 A. Yes, sir.

22 Q. Did you ever have any personal observation of

23 anyone from Medical ever taking care of any inmates?

24 A. Yes, sir.

25 Q. When?



Page 162

1 A. I experienced all three of the mentioned

2 medical staff doing their job. Only a couple of times.

3 It wasn't an everyday setting, but a couple of times,

4 yes.

5 Q. When you saw them doing their jobs, did you

6 see anything that concerned you?

7 A. The only person that raises concern is

8 Miss Maestas.

9 Q. Okay. And what was it that you saw

10 personally that raised a concern about Miss Maestas?

11 A. There was a day I had been doing med pass

12 with her, standing next to her, and it was with

13 Mr. Walter. And she stated that because he could not

14 physically get his cup of water to take his meds, she

15 would not give him his meds. So she shut Holding Cell

16 2 and moved on.

17 Q. What day was that?

18 A. I don't know.

19 Q. What time was it?

20 A. It was probably early morning.

21 Q. Did you say anything to her about that?

22 A. No, sir.

23 Q. Did you say anything to your supervisor?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. First of all, who did you say something to?



Page 163

1 A. I informed Sergeant Green.

2 Q. And what did Sergeant Green say to you about

3 that?

4 A. He didn't say anything.

5 Q. When this incident about Miss Maestas saying

6 she was not going to give Mr. Walter his meds because

7 he did not have a cup -- first of all, did I get that

8 right, that's what you observed personally?

9 A. Yes, sir.

10 Q. Did you offer to get a cup for him?

11 A. Yes, sir.

12 Q. And what did Miss Maestas say?

13 A. She said because he could not get it himself,

14 she would not be giving him his meds.

15 Q. Who took the cup away from him?

16 A. I don't know.

17 Q. Was it Miss Maestas?

18 A. He had his cup in that instance. When it was

19 taken away later on in his incarceration period, I

20 don't know who took it.

21 Q. So he had a cup with him when Miss Maestas

22 came to give him his medications?

23 A. Yes, sir.

24 Q. I thought you said he didn't have a cup.

25 A. Later on in his incarceration, his cup had



Page 164

1 been taken away. During that instant with

2 Miss Maestas, he still had a cup.

3 Q. Why would she not give him the medications if

4 he had a cup?

5 A. Because he could not get his own water.

6 Q. Why couldn't he get his own water?


8 Q. Did Miss Maestas ask him to?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. What did he say?

11 A. He didn't respond.

12 Q. And did he have his clothes on at this time?


14 Q. Did he have a suicide smock on?

15 A. I believe he had it in the room, but I don't

16 remember if it was on or not.

17 Q. Okay. So this incident with Miss Maestas

18 occurred at a time when he did have his suicide smock

19 on or when he was still wearing his regular prison

20 clothes?

21 A. I believe he had the suicide smock at this

22 point.

23 Q. And what makes you think that?

24 A. Because I don't remember seeing a

25 black-and-white set of stripes in his cell.



Page 165

1 Q. When you saw Mr. Walter hitting the door as

2 you noted in your report, which is -- just a moment

3 here -- Exhibit 12 -- not Exhibit 12. It was in the --

4 sorry. I mismarked my own exhibits.

5 Exhibit 12 on Page 2 of 3. It's the second

6 page of the Exhibit 12. Do you have that in front of

7 you?

8 A. Yes, sir.

9 Q. Looking at the April 18, 2014 at 0058, you

10 noted that "Sergeant Green, Deputies Cook and Turner

11 and I went out to talk to Inmate Walter. Prior to us

12 walking out there, we observed him hitting the door

13 continuously again and with a closed fist this time."

14 And when you say "again," is that in

15 reference to the incident at 2254 on the 17th earlier

16 in the same shift?

17 A. Yes, sir.

18 Q. And you say you stood in front of the door

19 and told Walter he needed to stop hitting the window?

20 A. Yes, sir.

21 Q. Did you open the door?

22 A. No, sir.

23 Q. Why not?

24 A. Because that would be posing a risk to myself

25 and my fellow deputies.



Page 166

1 Q. And you had three deputies with you at the

2 time?

3 A. Yes, sir.

4 Q. When you go to see an inmate with Medical,

5 it's just with one deputy, correct?

6 A. Yes, sir.

7 Q. Would you agree that it would probably not be

8 appropriate for a single deputy in Medical to go into a

9 cell when Mr. Walter was exhibiting this type of

10 aggressive behavior?


12 A. Can you repeat that, please.

13 Q. (BY MR. TIEMEIER) Would you agree that if

14 you felt that you were un -- that you were -- would be

15 in danger by opening the cell door with three other

16 deputies with you, would you agree that it would also

17 be dangerous for just a single deputy and a medical

18 person to open the door if Mr. Walter was exhibiting

19 similar aggressive behavior?


21 A. No, sir.

22 Q. (BY MR. TIEMEIER) So it's okay for a --

23 it's -- it is dangerous or it's not dangerous for a

24 single deputy and Medical to go in when he's exhibiting

25 this kind of behavior?



Page 167

1 A. It depends on the behavior. When I went in

2 with Miss Maestas, he was not exhibiting aggressive

3 behavior.

4 Q. Did he ever exhibit aggressive behavior other

5 than this single time that you noted it?

6 A. Not that I'm aware of.

7 Q. And there's nothing reported in the prisoner

8 logs?

9 A. I don't know. I didn't read all the logs.

10 Q. I'm sorry, I was mistaken. I thought when

11 counsel for the plaintiff was questioning you, you said

12 that you were aware of all the other entries on the

13 logs because they were posted on the door. Is that

14 correct?

15 A. That is correct.

16 Q. Were you aware of all of other entries or

17 not?

18 A. I was aware of them.

19 Q. Were there other instances where -- other

20 than this single one you have noted on April 18, where

21 Mr. Walter was exhibiting aggressive behaviors?

22 A. I don't know.

23 Q. Why don't you know?

24 A. Because I did not read the logs. They were

25 there for me to read if I needed them, but I did not --



Page 168

1 I did not read them.

2 Q. I did not make my question clear, and I

3 apologize.

4 A. Okay.

5 Q. Other than your own entries in the logs that

6 are posted by the prisoner's door, did you ever read

7 them, aside from your own entries?

8 A. No, sir.

9 Q. Thank you. So you don't know whether

10 Mr. Walter may have been acting aggressively at other

11 times that you were not present for?

12 A. Correct, sir.

13 Q. Were there times when you saw -- other than

14 this one that we've just discussed, the late evening

15 and early morning of April 17 and 18, were there other

16 times where you would -- you were observing

17 Mr. Walter's behavior that you would not feel

18 comfortable going into his cell by yourself or with a

19 single other person?

20 A. No, sir.

21 Q. Never?

22 A. No, sir.

23 Q. So you always felt comfortable walking into

24 his room?

25 A. I wouldn't directly walk in.



Page 169

1 Q. Why not?

2 A. Because that's not protocol.

3 Q. What's the protocol?

4 A. If I need to have any kind of interaction

5 with Mr. Walter, whether it's taking something out of

6 his room, I would have him come out for me to go and do

7 that.

8 Q. And why would you do that?

9 A. Because then anything that happens with

10 Mr. Walter can be seen in the open day room area.

11 Q. By whom?

12 A. Anybody who's watching.

13 Q. Who else would be in the open day room?

14 A. There could be booking deputies also on the

15 floor; there could be the camera that master control

16 had access to.

17 Q. So if you needed to go into Mr. Walter's

18 cell, you would first make him go out where he could be

19 observed by other deputies?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. And ultimately, then, would you go into the

22 room?

23 A. Yes, sir.

24 Q. And that was the protocol you were taught?

25 A. Yes, sir.



Page 170

1 Q. And that was for your own personal safety?

2 A. Correct, sir.

3 Q. Were you ever to go into a room where an

4 inmate detainee was without another deputy present?

5 A. We could do that, yes.

6 Q. Under what circumstances would you do that?

7 A. If we were just going in to check on the

8 individual or if we needed to extract something from

9 the cell that didn't need to be in the cell.

10 Q. If someone was yelling at no one, talking to

11 themself, talking to a sink, would you feel comfortable

12 walking into that room by yourself with the inmate to

13 check on them?

14 A. No, sir.

15 Q. Why not?

16 A. If I can hear them actively yelling or

17 standing or anything like that, there's generally no

18 need for me to go in there. And at that point, because

19 I don't know how they will react to a certain

20 situation, I wouldn't open the door.

21 Q. And, again, that's for your own safety?

22 A. Yes, sir.

23 Q. And that's what you were taught when you were

24 trained?

25 A. Yes, sir.



Page 171

1 Q. When you went to Pueblo, I think you were

2 commenting that medical staff there was better than at

3 Fremont County; is that correct?

4 A. They are more observant and more aware.

5 Q. Okay. Thank you for clarifying that. I

6 couldn't remember your exact words.

7 What did you notice personally that caused

8 you to think that the medical staff at Pueblo was more

9 observant and more aware than at Fremont?

10 A. When I started training on the floors.

11 Q. And what did you observe when you were

12 training on the floors?

13 A. I'm sorry, can you say that again?

14 Q. What did you observe when you were training

15 on the floors that caused you to think that medical

16 staff at Pueblo was more observant and more aware?

17 A. Any situations that arose as far as, if an

18 inmate tells me, I'm not feeling well, or, I have chest

19 pain, Medical will stop what they are doing in that

20 instant to assess the individual who is having these

21 concerns.

22 Q. Did you ever talk to medical in Pueblo about

23 that?

24 A. About them stopping --

25 Q. Right.



Page 172

1 A. -- what they are doing?

2 Q. Right.

3 A. No.

4 Q. That's just what you assume they were trained

5 to do?

6 A. Correct.

7 Q. Did you receive any training from -- when you

8 were at Pueblo from Medical or about medical issues,

9 medically related issues?

10 A. No, sir.

11 Q. Did you get any information about how to

12 recognize medical problems?

13 A. No, sir.

14 Q. Have you ever called Medical to assist an

15 inmate?

16 A. Yes, sir.

17 Q. How did you know to do that?

18 A. Usually if somebody is complaining of chest

19 pain or if they've had an apparent seizure or anything

20 that seems out of the normal, day-to-day behaviors that

21 I recognize, I'll call Medical.

22 Q. All right. So my question was a little

23 different. My question is, how did you know to call

24 Medical, say, if a person was having chest pain or is

25 recovering from a seizure?



Page 173

1 A. Part of our training -- if you look at it

2 from the chest pain complaint, part of our training is

3 we call Medical, inform them of who we have, what their

4 issue is, and once they are down in our in-house

5 clinic, we take that inmate down so that they can be

6 checked that way.

7 If it is somebody who has had an apparent

8 seizure or possible anxiety attack, anything that would

9 be noted as a -- to a deputy -- anything that would be

10 noted to a deputy as abnormal, we would call Medical.

11 Q. And my question again is, how did you know to

12 call Medical in those circumstances? Who told you to

13 do that?

14 A. Myself.

15 Q. When you got to Pueblo, how did you know who

16 to call?

17 A. Because that's who we are trained to call, is

18 the medical staff.

19 Q. That's what I'm getting at. Who trained you

20 to call medical staff?

21 A. My trainer.

22 Q. Okay. So you did receive some training on

23 who to call and when, when you were in Pueblo?

24 A. Correct.

25 Q. Okay. Who did that -- who did that training?



Page 174

1 A. Another deputy.

2 Q. All right. And under what auspices was that

3 training done? Was it when you first arrived there or

4 was it part of an ongoing, continuing education type

5 thing?

6 A. It would be whoever I was assigned to and

7 following them around and then pointing out things as

8 we go and then going over policy and procedure papers

9 that we have.

10 Q. Okay. So when you got to Pueblo, what was

11 your training? What did it consist of? You said

12 something about following a deputy around. Is that how

13 you were trained to -- in how to work as a deputy in

14 the Pueblo County detention facility, by following

15 another deputy around?

16 A. Yes, learn to recognize the things that go on

17 around us on a day-to-day basis.

18 Q. And how long did that following-around

19 training last?

20 A. Three and a half months.

21 Q. Is that the same training -- or did you

22 receive similar training when you were here in Fremont?

23 A. No, sir.

24 Q. Did you receive any training when you were

25 first -- first became a deputy here at Fremont aside



Page 175

1 from the two items that are listed on -- I think it's

2 Exhibit 2 -- Exhibit 3? And you have that in front of

3 you if you want to look. Defense Tactics and Report

4 Writing.

5 A. Can you repeat your question?

6 Q. Sure. Other than those two items listed on

7 Exhibit 3, Defense Tactics and Report Writing, did you

8 receive any training when you started here in Fremont

9 County detention facility?

10 A. Just with whoever my assigned trainer was

11 that -- in the same aspect. I would shadow.

12 Q. Okay. I'm misunderstanding, then. When you

13 were talking about your training in Pueblo, I said, Did

14 you receive similar training to that at Fremont? I

15 thought you said no.

16 A. As far as to which regard, the medical

17 portion or just training in general?

18 Q. Training in general. Following a deputy

19 around.

20 A. Yes, both places I followed a deputy around.

21 Q. For how long?

22 A. For Fremont County, maybe three weeks.

23 Q. And when you were following the deputy around

24 for three weeks, what did they tell you, if anything,

25 about what to report to Medical and when?



Page 176


2 Q. Did they tell you anything?

3 A. I don't know. I don't remember.

4 Q. Was there ever a time when you worked in

5 Fremont County -- I think it was about the 10 months

6 that you were there --

7 A. Yes, sir.

8 Q. -- that you ever called Medical?

9 A. No, sir.

10 Q. Never?

11 A. No, sir.

12 Q. Okay.

13 A. There was no medical staff on the graveyard

14 shift.

15 Q. Did you ever tell anyone to call Medical?

16 A. No, sir.

17 Q. In working at the Pueblo jail, have you ever

18 called Medical?

19 A. Yes, sir.

20 Q. And you learned who to call and when to call

21 based on your training by following around the deputy?

22 A. Yes, sir.

23 Q. Have you ever had any training or assistance

24 at all from the medical staff in terms of knowing what

25 to do with respect to any medical issues that may arise



Page 177

1 in your duties as a deputy there?

2 A. One in particular.

3 Q. One what?

4 A. Training. Like one-on-one kind of training

5 with a medical staff.

6 Q. Okay. Tell me about that.

7 A. It goes back to the chest pain kind of

8 condition, how their protocol works in order to get set

9 up and did get an individual ready. They coached me on

10 how they do it.

11 Q. Who's "they"?

12 A. The medical staff.

13 Q. Do you remember who the medical -- in the

14 medical staff was telling you this?

15 A. No, sir.

16 Q. Tell me what all they told you.

17 A. That whenever somebody states that they are

18 having chest pain, that they need to be immediately

19 brought down to the in-house clinic so that way an EKG

20 can be performed right then and there.

21 Q. Did you ever receive any training from

22 Medical on any subject other than the chest pain that

23 you've just described?

24 A. No, sir.

25 Q. Did you -- how long did this training last



Page 178

1 with Medical?

2 A. It was maybe like a 5- or 10-minute

3 discussion.

4 Q. Was it early on your work at Pueblo?

5 A. Yes, sir.

6 Q. You talked earlier about Mr. Walter losing

7 weight and you noticed that he had lost weight during

8 the two and a half weeks that he was there. Do you

9 remember that?

10 A. Yes, sir.

11 Q. Can you quantify how many pounds he lost from

12 when you first remember seeing him to when you noticed

13 that he looked like he had lost a lot of weight?

14 A. No, sir.

15 Q. 5 pounds, 10 pounds?

16 A. I don't know.

17 Q. No way of quantifying?

18 A. No, sir.

19 Q. How do you know he lost weight?

20 A. Because his size became smaller.

21 Q. His what?

22 A. His size. His physical appearance became

23 much smaller.

24 Q. Can an inmate drink from the sink in their

25 holding cell without using a cup?



Page 179

1 A. Yes, sir.

2 Q. Have you ever seen them do that?

3 A. Yes, sir.

4 Q. Put their head down under the faucet and

5 drink?

6 A. It's like a normal water fountain. You --

7 there's a button that they can press and the water

8 comes up and -- up and down, I guess, or up and over.

9 Q. Did you ever accompany Nurse Doughty when she

10 did med passes on Mr. Walter?

11 A. No, sir.

12 Q. Did you ever encounter Miss Doughty at all?

13 A. Yes, sir.

14 Q. Tell me about that. When did that occur and

15 under what circumstances?

16 A. The -- there were a few inmates who I would

17 escort her down to the kitchen area and she would

18 request to check the results of their shot that was

19 given in their arm, I think their TB shot. And the

20 only other instance I had with Miss Doughty is another

21 inmate who had lice in her hair and the medical

22 treatment that needed to be done.

23 Q. You testified that, as far as you knew,

24 Medical was aware of Mr. Walter's condition --

25 A. Yes, sir.



Page 180

1 Q. -- is that right?

2 Did you tell Medical about Mr. Walter's

3 condition?

4 A. No, sir.

5 Q. All right. But you were with Kathy Maestas

6 when she was in the room with Mr. Walter, correct?

7 A. On one instance, yes.

8 Q. Is that the only instance?

9 A. Yes, sir.

10 Q. Okay. Are you personally aware of any

11 situation where you could see with your own eyes or

12 hear with your own ears that Medical was becoming aware

13 of Mr. Walter's medical condition?

14 A. No, sir.

15 Q. Everything that you knew about Medical being

16 aware of Mr. Walter's condition came from what other

17 people were saying?

18 A. The pass-down from the deputies I would be

19 relieving.

20 Q. Okay. So what someone else told you about

21 it?

22 A. Correct.

23 Q. Do you know why Mr. Walter died or what he

24 died of?

25 A. No, sir.



Page 181

1 MR. TIEMEIER: That's all I have. Thank you

2 for your time.

3 MR. O'CONNELL: I have no questions.

4 EXAMINATION (Continued)

5 BY MR. BUDGE:

6 Q. Miss Gonzales, I need to follow up on that

7 interaction that you described where you were present

8 with Nurse Maestas and Mr. Walter. And perhaps I could

9 just ask you to tell me everything that you remember

10 about that. Set the scene for me, and then I can

11 follow up with you a little bit.

12 A. Okay.

13 Q. You are pulling out Exhibit 4, which is your

14 diagram?

15 A. Yes, sir.

16 Q. Okay.

17 A. Okay. So during my pass, the medical staff

18 has a big medical cart with everything in it that they

19 need. Coming through over here -- coming in through

20 here, when you -- if you ever were to see it, Holding 4

21 and Holding 3, if I remember correctly, they have tray

22 slots which can be opened so you can work with your

23 inmates that way. Holding 1 and Holding 2 do not.

24 This day in particular Miss Maestas and I had

25 been right outside the door with the door open.



Page 182

1 Q. Right outside the door of Holding 2?

2 A. Correct, sir.

3 Q. With the door of Holding 2 open?

4 A. Correct, sir.

5 Q. And Mr. Walter inside?

6 A. Correct, sir. With me and Miss Maestas

7 outside.

8 I don't know exactly how -- how far along

9 Mr. Walter had been without his medicine at that time,

10 because I don't remember what exact date it was I was

11 with Miss Maestas. On that day, she did attempt to

12 give him his meds.

13 Q. Meaning she showed up at the door with her

14 medical cart and with you?

15 A. Correct. She informed Mr. Walter, You need

16 to get your cup, you need to put water in it so I can

17 give you your meds. As far as I know -- and it's

18 common between both counties in which I have worked in

19 order for Medical to give meds they require that the

20 inmate have a cup of water. That's just the common

21 factor.

22 Mr. Walter -- I don't remember if he refused

23 it or if he just didn't answer but he did not get his

24 cup and he did not put water in it. So Miss Maestas

25 said, You will not be getting meds because you are not



Page 183

1 getting your cup and getting water. She shut the door

2 and moved down to -- I don't remember if there was

3 someone here or if she went back down the hall to come

4 to the housing unit. But he did not get his meds

5 because he could not get a cup of water.

6 And when I attempted to offer to get the cup

7 of water, she told me, No, he needed to get it himself.

8 Q. Did it appear to you that he was, given his

9 condition, physically or mentally incapable of doing

10 what she had instructed him to do?

11 A. Correct.


13 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) And why does it -- why did it

14 appear to you that he was physically or mentally

15 incapable of doing what she instructed him to do?


17 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) Insofar as, Get your cup,

18 fill it up with water?

19 A. He wasn't even responding to her.

20 Q. Okay.

21 A. He was -- he was standing in his cell,

22 moving, but when she gave her verbal request, he didn't

23 respond. And she gave the verbal request a couple

24 different times with no actual response from him, okay,

25 or just going and getting it and coming to get his



Page 184

1 medication.

2 Q. Now, earlier in the deposition you described

3 Mr. Walter's physical, mental and emotional state in

4 the days leading up to his death. Was Mr. Walter -- at

5 this time, was he in a -- was he in bad condition, as

6 you had described in your deposition, physically,

7 mentally, so far as you could tell?

8 A. I think that was the start of his decline.

9 Q. Okay.

10 A. It was -- that was -- earlier you had asked

11 me if there was anything that was -- oh, what was the

12 word? -- like -- like that distressed me. That wasn't

13 the word you said, but that was that instance right

14 there. That was an instance that I had brought to my

15 supervisor's attention because he did not respond to

16 her and she did not attempt much more than, If you

17 can't get your cup, I'm not giving you your meds.

18 Q. So just so parrot this back to you, you think

19 this was early on in the time that Mr. Walter was

20 confined in Holding Cell 2?

21 A. Yes, sir.

22 Q. You were accompanying Miss Maestas to med

23 pass for Mr. Walter?

24 A. Yes, sir.

25 Q. The door to Holding Cell 2 was opened and it



Page 185

1 was just you and Miss Maestas?

2 A. Correct.

3 Q. When the door to Holding Cell 2 was opened,

4 did Mr. Walter do anything that was aggressive,

5 violent, belligerent or indicated that he might be any

6 threat to anybody?

7 A. No, sir.

8 Q. And Miss Maestas told him to get a cup and

9 fill it with water if he wanted to get his meds?

10 A. Correct.

11 Q. And he didn't respond?

12 A. Correct.

13 Q. And it appeared to you from his behavior and

14 his appearance that he wasn't capable of responding to

15 her?

16 A. Correct.

17 Q. And you offered to assist by getting the cup

18 and fill it with water for him so that he could have

19 his meds.

20 A. Correct.

21 Q. And she stated that, No, if he can't fill the

22 cup and bring it, then he will not get his meds?

23 A. Correct.

24 Q. And she shut the door and left?

25 A. Correct.



Page 186

1 Q. And he did not get his meds?

2 A. Correct.

3 Q. And this probably would have happened early

4 in the morning?

5 A. Correct.

6 Q. And you were distressed by what you had

7 witnessed?

8 A. Correct.

9 Q. And you went to your supervisor and reported

10 it?

11 A. Correct.

12 Q. And your supervisor was?

13 A. I'm pretty sure it was Sergeant Green that I

14 spoke with because he was still there that morning.

15 Q. And you told him that you were distressed

16 about what you had seen and you told him the events

17 that had taken place?

18 A. Correct.

19 Q. And you didn't really get any response from

20 Sergeant Green?

21 A. Correct.

22 Q. Was this the only interaction you had with

23 Miss Maestas relative to Mr. Walter?

24 A. Correct.

25 Q. And did you have any interaction with



Page 187

1 Miss Repshire relative to Mr. Walter?

2 A. No, sir.

3 Q. Did she say anything like that, He's refusing

4 his meds?

5 A. No, sir.

6 Q. She just didn't use those words?

7 A. Correct.

8 Q. From the point in time that the door was open

9 and he was instructed to get a cup of water and bring

10 it if he wanted to get his meds until the time she shut

11 the door and left, how much total time would you say

12 passed?

13 A. Not even 5 minutes.

14 Q. Did you say anything to Miss Maestas like, I

15 don't think he can do it, or, I don't think he

16 understands, or anything to that effect?

17 A. The only part that I had mentioned to her is,

18 I can get his cup of water for him so he can take his

19 meds. And that's when she responded, If he can't get

20 it for himself, he won't get his meds.

21 Q. If I could ask you -- to speed this up, I'm

22 handing you Exhibit 5 and asking you to take a look at

23 on Page 4. These are your discovery responses. Up at

24 the top where your name is, it says that you worked

25 with Deputy Lee Cook, Corporal Dustin Maas and Sergeant



Page 188

1 Corporal Green. And this is in response to a question

2 about something to the effect of list people that you

3 might have knowledge relating to your defenses in this

4 case.

5 What do you think that Deputy Cook might know

6 relative to this case?

7 MR. TIEMEIER: I didn't hear the question.

8 Q. (BY MR. BUDGE) What do you think Deputy Cook

9 might know in relation to this case?

10 A. Like in a general sense?

11 Q. Yes.

12 A. He and I worked together pretty frequently,

13 actually. The day that I mentioned Mr. Walter was

14 hitting the door and I was able to talk to him to get

15 him to stop hitting the door, he was informed of that

16 instance. And I'm -- I'm sure he's had his encounters

17 with Mr. Walter as well.

18 Q. All right. And then Corporal Maas and

19 Sergeant Green, you identify them because they were

20 your supervisors on the graveyard shift?

21 A. Correct.

22 Q. And they were also regularly observing

23 Mr. Walter?

24 A. Correct.

25 Q. Okay.



Page 189

1 A. The -- a big difference with the supervisors

2 and myself is if you look at the logs where they are

3 written, this time this happened, this time this

4 happened, I went out and observed because that was part

5 of my job duty. Corporal Maas and Sergeant Green,

6 unless it was their days off, were there and they could

7 visually see anything else that would be happening.

8 Q. Right. Okay. Anything else that you can

9 recall that's in your mind that you is particularly

10 relevant to what occurred leading up to Mr. Walter's

11 death that you haven't already talked about in his

12 deposition?

13 A. No, sir.

14 Q. You think you pretty much told me everything

15 that you can recall about the general course of events?

16 A. Yes, sir.

17 MR. BUDGE: All right. That's all I have.

18 MR. TIEMEIER: Nothing else.

19 WHEREUPON, the within proceedings were

20 concluded at the approximate hour of 1:22 p.m. on the

21 October 11, 2011.

22

23

24

25



Page 190

1

2 CERTIFICATION OF DEPONENT

3

4 I, SARA GONZALES, do hereby certify that I

5 have read the above and foregoing deposition and that

6 the same is a true and accurate transcription of my

7 testimony, except for attached amendments, if any.

8 Amendments attached ( ) Yes ( ) No

9

10 _________________________________________

11 SARA GONZALES

12

13 The signature above of SARA GONZALES, was subscribed

14 and sworn to before me in the County of ______________,

15 state of Colorado, this ______ day of

16 _________________, 2016.

17

18 _________________________________________

19 Notary Public My commission expires

20

21

22 Walter v. Correctional Healthcare Companies, et al.,

23 10/11/2016 (AN)

24

25



Page 191

1 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE

2 STATE OF COLORADO ) ) ss.

3 CITY AND County OF DENVER )

4 I, ANNETTE NORRIS Registered Professional

5 Reporter, and Notary Public, State of Colorado, do

6 hereby certify that previous to the commencement of the

7 examination, the said SARA GONZALES was duly sworn by

8 me to testify to the truth in relation to the matters

9 in controversy between the parties hereto; that the

10 said deposition was taken in machine shorthand by me at

11 the time and place aforesaid and was thereafter reduced

12 to typewritten form, consisting of 191 pages herein;

13 that the foregoing is a true transcript of the

14 questions asked, testimony given, and proceedings had.

15 I further certify that I am not employed by, related

16 to, nor of counsel for any of the parties herein, nor

17 otherwise interested in the outcome of this litigation.

18 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have affixed my

19 signature and seal this 17th day of October, 2016.

20 My commission expires April 20, 2020.

21 Annette Norris, RPR, CSR

22

23

24

25

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Transcript of Transcript of the Testimony of - Budge &...