Transcript: Gary Webb Speaks on CIA Connections to Contra Drug Trafficking Jan 1999

7/29/2019 Transcript: Gary Webb Speaks on CIA Connections to Contra Drug Trafficking Jan 1999

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GARY WEBB SPEAKS: A PARASCOPE SPECIAL REPORT -- INVESTIGATIVE

JOURNALIST GARY WEBB SPEAKS TO A PACKED HOUSE ON THE CIA'S

CONNECTION TO DRUG TRAFFICKING, AND THE FAILURE OF THE MEDIA TO

EXPOSE THE TRUTH

by Charles Overbeck

Matrix Editor

[email protected]

Dark Alliance athor ary ebb ave a ascia talk o the evei o aary

otlii the dis o his ivesao o the Cs coeco to dr

trafficki by the Nicaraa cotras. pproximately 300 people crowded ito the

irst ited Methodist Chrch i Eee Oreo listeed with rapt aeo as

ebb detailed his experieces. ebbs rive speech was ollowed by a itese

eso-ad-aswer sessio dri which he cadidly aswered esos abotthe "Dark lliace" cotroversy his ri rom the San Jose Mercury News ad

Ccotracocaie secrets that sll await revelao.

t was a ascia exchae packed with detailed iormao o the latest

developmets i the case. ebb spoke eloetly with the ease ad codece

o a ivesator who has spet may lo hors researchi his sbect ad

may more hors shari this iormao with the pblic. aracope will have a

ll report o ebbs talk o edesday aary 20.

the meame yo et aother opportity to see a aracope arcle come

toether rom scratch rom behid the scees. o check back with s soo or thelatest addios as this piece is developed.

Transcript: Gary Webb Speaks on CIA Connecons to Contra Dr Trackin an

Relate Topics)

Date: Janary 16, 1999

Time: 7:30 p.m.

Locaon: First Unite Metoist Crc, 1376 Olie St., Eene, Oreon

Gary Webb: look like a idiot p here with all these mikes the C aets are

probably behid oe or the other... [lahter rom the adiece]. ts really ice to

be i Eee -- ve bee i Madiso iscosi talki abot this ve bee i

Berkeley ve bee i ata Moica ad these are sort o like islads o saity i

this world today so its reat to be o oe o those islads.


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Oe o the this that is weird abot this whole thi thoh is that ve bee a

daily ews reporter or abot twety years ad ve doe probably a thosad

iterviews with people ad the straest thi is bei o the other side o the

table ow ad havi reporters ask me esos. Oe o them asked me abot a

week ao -- was o a radio show -- ad the host asked me "hy did yo et ito

ewspaper repor o all the media hy did yo pick ewspapers" d really had to admit that was stmped. Becase thoht abot it -- d bee

doi ewspaper repor sice was ortee or ee years old -- ad really

didt have a aswer.

o wet back to my clip books -- yo kow most reporters keep all their old clips

-- ad started dii arod tryi to re ot i there was oe story that had

wrie that had really pped the balace. d od it. d wated to tell yo

this story becase it sort o ts ito the theme that were oi to talk abot

toiht.

thik was ee was worki or my hih school paper ad was wri

editorials. his sods silly ow that thik abot it bt had wrie a editorial

aaist the drill team that we had or the hih school ames or the ootball

ames. his was 7 or 72 at the heiht o the protests aaist the Vietam ar

ad was i school the i sbrba diaapolis -- Da Qayle cotry. o yo

et the idea o the flavor o the school system. hey thoht it was a cool idea to

dress wome p i military iorms ad sed them ot there to twirl rifles ad

bale flas at halime. d thoht this was sort o otraeos ad wrote a

editorial sayi thoht it was oe o the silliest this d ever see. d my

ewspaper advisor called me the ext day ad said "osh that editorial yo

wrote has really prompted a respose." d said "reat thats the idea ist it"

d she said "ell its ot so reat they wat yo to apoloize or it." [Lahterrom the adiece.]

said "poloize or what" d she said "ell the irls were very offeded."

d said "ell m ot apoloizi becase they dot wat my opiio. Yoll

have to come p with a beer reaso tha that." d they said "ell i yo dot

apoloize were ot oi to let yo i Qill & croll" which is the hih school

oralism society. d said "ell dot wat to be i that oraizao i have

to apoloize to et ito it." [More lahter rom the adiece scaered applase.]

hey were sort o powerless at that poit ad they said "Look why dot yo st

come dow ad the cheerleaders are oi to come i ad they wat to talk to

yo ad tell yo what they thik" ad said okay. o wet dow to the

ewspaper office ad there were abot ee o them si arod this table

ad they all wet arod oe by oe telli me what a scmba was ad what a

terrible y was ad how d ried their dates ried their complexios ad all

sorts o this... [Lahter ad roas rom the adiece.] ...ad at that momet

decided "Ma this is what wat to do or a livi." [Roar o lahter rom the

adiece.] d wish cold say that it was becase was ised with this sese


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o the irst medmet ad thiki reat thohts abot oh eter Zeer ad

.. toe... bt what was really thiki was "Ma this is a reat way to meet

wome!" [More lahter.]

d thats a tre story bt the reaso tell yo that is becase its oe those

kids o weird movaos ad thiki coseeces that lead s to do this

that lead s to evets that we have absoltely o cocept how theyre oi to

tr ot. Lile did kow that twety-ve years later d be wri a story abot

the Cs wrodois becase wated to meet wome by wri editorials

abot cheerleaders.

Bt thats really the way lie ad thats really the way history works a lot o mes.

Yo kow whe yo thik back o yor ow lives rom the vatae poit o me

yo ca see it. mea thik back to the decisios yove made i yor liemes

that broht yo to where yo are toiht thik abot how close yo came to

ever mee yor wie or yor hsbad how easily yo cold have bee doi

somethi else or a livi i it hadt bee or a decisio that yo made or

someoe made that yo had absoltely o cotrol over. d its really kid o

scary whe yo thik abot how capricios lie is somemes. hats a theme try

to bri to my book Dark Alliance, which was abot the crack cocaie explosio i

the 980s.

o or the record let me st say this riht ow. do ot believe -- ad have never

believed -- that the crack cocaie explosio was a coscios C cospiracy or

aybodys cospiracy to decimate black merica. ve ever believed that oth

Cetral Los eles was tareted by the .. overmet to become the crack

capitol o the world. Bt that ist to say that the Cs hads or the ..

overmets hads are clea i this maer. ctally ar rom it. er spedi

three years o my lie looki ito this am more coviced tha ever that the ..

overmets resposibility or the dr problems i oth Cetral Los eles

ad other ier cies is reater tha ever wrote i the ewspaper.

Bt its importat to differeate betwee mali itet ad ross eliece. d

thats a importat disco becase its what makes premeditated mrder

differet rom maslahter. hat said it doest chae the act that yove ot a

body o the floor ad thats what wat to talk abot toiht the body.

May years ao there was a reat series o B -- dot kow how may o yo

are old eoh to remember this -- it was called onnecons. d it was by a

Brish historia amed ames Brke. yo dot remember it it was a marvelosshow very ifleal o me. d he wold take a seemily icoseeal

evet i history ad ollow it throh the aes to see what it spawed as a reslt.

he oe show remember the most clearly was the oe he did o how the scarcity

o rewood i thirteeth-cetry Erope led to the developmet o the steam

eie. d yo wold thik "ell these this aret coected at all" ad he

wold show very covicily that they were.


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the rst chapter o the book o which the series is based Brke wrote that

"istory is ot as we are so oe led to believe a maer o reat me ad loely

eises poi the way to the tre rom their ivory towers. t some poit

every member o society is ivolved i that process by which iovao ad

chae come abot. he key to why this chae is the key to everythi."

hat ve aempted to demostrate i my book was how the collapse o a brtal

pro-merica dictatorship i La merica combied with a decisio by corrpt

C aets to raise moey or a resistace movemet by ay meas ecessary led

to he ormao o the aos rst maor crack market i oth Cetral Los

eles which led to the armi ad the empowermet o Ls street as

which led to the spread o crack to black eihborhoods across the cotry ad to

the passae o racially discrimiatory seteci laws that are locki p

thosads o yo black me today behid bars or most o their lives.

Bt its ot so mch a cospiracy as a chai reaco. d thats what my whole

book is abot this chai reaco. o let me explai the liks i this chai a lile

beer.

he rst lik is this ellow astasio omoza who was a merica-edcated

tyrat oe o or bddies atrally ad his amily rled Nicaraa or orty years -

- thaks to the Nicaraa Naoal ard which we spplied armed ad ded

becase we thoht they were yo kow a-commists.

ell i 979 the people o Nicaraa ot red o livi der this dictatorship

ad they rose p ad overthrew it. d a lot o omozas rieds ad relaves ad

bsiess parters came to the ited tates becase we had bee their allies all

these years icldi two me whose amilies had bee very close to the

dictatorship. d these two ys are sort o two o the three mai characters imy book -- a ellow amed Dailo Blad ad a ellow amed Norwi Meeses.

hey came to the ited tates i 979 alo with a flood o other Nicaraa

immirats most o them middle-class people most o them ormer bakers

ormer israce salesme -- sort o a capitalist exods rom Nicaraa. d they

ot ivolved whe they ot here ad they decided they were oi to take the

cotry back they didt like the act that theyd bee orced ot o their cotry.

o they ormed these resistace oraizaos here i the ited tates ad they

bea plo how they were oi to kick the adaistas ot.

t this poit i me immy Carter was presidet ad Carter wast all thatiterested i helpi these olks ot. he C was however. d thats where we

start e ito this mrky world o yo kow who really rs the ited tates.

s it the presidet s it the breacracy s it the itelliece commity t

differet poits i me yo et differet aswers. Like today the idea that Clito

rs the ited tates is ts. he idea that immy Carter ra the cotry is ts.


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979 ad 980 the C secretly bea visi these rops that were se p

here i the ited tates spplyi them with a lile bit o moey ad telli

them to hold o wait or a lile while dot ive p. d Roald Reaa came to

tow. d Reaa had a very differet otlook o Cetral merica tha Carter did.

Reaa saw what happeed i Nicaraa ot as a poplist prisi as most o the

rest o the world did. e saw it as this bad o commists dow there there wasoi to be aother idel Castro ad he was oi to have aother Cba i his

backyard. hich t i very well with the Cs thiki. o the C der Reaa

ot it toether ad they said "ere oi to help these ys ot." hey

athorized $9 millio to d a covert war to destabilize the overmet i

Nicaraa ad help et their old bddies back i power.

oo aer the C took over this operao these two dr traffickers who had

come rom Nicaraa ad seled i Calioria were called dow to odras. d

they met with a C aet amed Erie Bermdez who was oe o omozas

military officials ad the ma the C picked to r this ew oraizao they

were ormi. d both traffickers had said -- oe o them said the other oewrote ad its ever bee cotradicted -- that whe they met with the C aet

he told them "e eed moey or this operao. Yor ys ob is to o to

Calioria ad raise moey ad ot to worry abot how yo did it. d what he

said was -- ad thik this had bee sed to sy st abot every crime aaist

hmaity that weve kow -- "the eds sy the meas."

Now this is a very importat lik i this chai reaco becase the meas they

selected was cocaie trafficki which is sort o what yod expect whe yo ask

cocaie traffickers to o ot ad raise moey or yo. Yo sholdt at all be

srprised whe they o ot ad sell drs. Especially whe yo pick people who

are like pioeers o the cocaie trafficki bsiess which Norwi Meesescertaily was.

here was a C cable rom believe 984 which called him the "kipi o

arcocs trafficki" i Cetral merica. e was sort o like the l Capoe o

Nicaraa. o aer e these draisi istrcos rom this C aet

these two me o back to Calioria ad they bei selli cocaie. his me ot

exclsively or themselves -- this me i rtherace o .. orei policy. d

they bea selli it i Los eles ad they bea selli it i a racisco.

omeme i 982 Dailo Blad who had bee ive the L market started

selli his cocaie to a yo dr dealer amed Ricky Ross who later became

kow as "reeway" Rick. 994 the LA Times wold describe him as the master

marketer most resposible or floodi the streets o Los eles with cocaie.

979 he was othi. e was nothing beore he met these Nicaraas. e was a

hih school dropot. e was a kid who wated to be a teis star who was tryi

to et a teis scholarship bt he od ot that i order to et a scholarship yo

eeded to read ad write ad he coldt. o he dried ot o school ad wod


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p selli stole car parts ad the he met these Nicaraas who had this cheap

cocaie that they wated to load. d he proved to be very ood at that.

Now he lived i oth Cetral Los eles which was home to some street as

kow as the Crips ad the Bloods. d back i 98-82 hardly aybody kew

who they were. hey were maily eihborhood kids -- theyd beat each other p

theyd steal leather coats theyd steal cars bt they were really othi back the.

Bt what they aied throh this oraizao ad what they aied throh

Ricky Ross was a bilt-i distribo etwork throhot the eihborhood. he

Crips ad the Bloods were already selli mariaa they were already selli C

so it wast mch o a stretch or them to sell somethi ew which is what these

Nicaraas were brii i which was cocaie.

his is where these orces o history come ot o owhere ad collide. Riht abot

the me the cotras ot to oth Cetral Los eles hooked p with "reeway"

Rick ad started selli powder cocaie the people Rick was selli his powder to

started aski him i he kew how to make it ito this stff called "rock" that they

were heari abot. his obviosly was crack cocaie ad it was already o its

way to the ited tates by the -- it started i er i 74 ad was worki its way

pward ad it was bod to et here sooer or later. 98 it ot to Los eles

ad people started ri ot how to take this very expesive powdered cocaie

ad cook it p o the stove ad tr it ito stff yo cold smoke.

he Ricky wet ot ad he started talki to his cstomers ad they started

aski him how to make this stff yo kow Rick was a smart y -- he sll is a

smart y -- ad he red this is somethi ew. his is cstomer demad.

wat to proress i this bsiess beer meet this demad. o he started

switchi rom selli powder to maki rock himsel ad selli it already made.

e called this ew iveo his "Ready Rock." d he told me the sceario he

said it was a sitao where hed o to a ys hose he wold say "Oh ma

wat to et hih m o my way to work dot have me to o ito the kitche

ad cook this stff p. Cat yo cook it p or me ad st bri it to me already

made" d he said "Yeah ca do that." o he started doi it.

o by the me crack ot ahold o oth Cetral which took a cople o years Rick

had posioed himsel o top o the crack market i oth Cetral. d by 984

crack sales had spplated mariaa ad C sales as sorces o icome or the

as ad dr dealers o oth Cetral. d sddely these ys had more

moey tha they kew what to do with. Becase what happeed with crack it

democrazed the dr. he yo were byi it i powdered orm yo were

havi to lay ot a hdred bcks or a ram or a hdred ad y bcks or a

ram. Now all yo eeded was te bcks or ve bcks or a dollar -- they were

selli "dollar rocks" at oe poit. o aybody who had moey ad wated to et

hih cold et some o this stff. Yo didt eed to be a middle-class or wealthy

dr ser aymore.


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ddely the market or this very expesive dr expaded eometrically. d

ow these dealers who were maki a hdred bcks a day o a ood day were

ow maki ve or six thosad dollars a day o a ood day. d the as started

se p rachises -- they started rachisi rock hoses i oth Cetral st

like McDoalds. d yod o o the streets ad thered be ve or six rock hoses

owed by oe y ad ve or six rock hoses owed by aother y adsddely they started maki eve more moey.

d ow theyve ot all this moey ad they elt ervos. Yo et $00000 or

$200000 i cash i yor hose ad yo start e kid o atsy abot it. o

ow they wated weapos to ard their moey with ad to ard their rock

hoses which other people were star to kock off. d lo ad behold yo had

weapos. he cotras. hey were selli weapos. hey were byi weapos.

d they started selli weapos to the as i Los eles. hey started selli

them R-5s they started selli them zis they started selli them sraeli-made

pistols with laser sihts st abot aythi. Becase that was part o the process

here. hey were ot st dr dealers they were taki the dr moey adbyi weapos with it to sed dow to Cetral merica with the assistace o a

reat mber o spooky C olks who were e them [adio litch -- "across

the border"] ad that sort o thi so they cold et weapos i ad ot o the

cotry. o ot oly does oth Cetral sddely have a dr problem they have

a weapos problem that they ever had beore. d yo started seei this like

drive-by shoos ad a baers with zis.

By 985 the L crack market had become satrated. here was so mch dope

oi ito oth Cetral dope that the C we ow kow kew o ad they kew

the oriis o -- the B kew the oriis o it; the DE kew the oriis o it; ad

obody did aythi abot it. (ell et ito that i a bit.)

Bt what happeed was there were so may people selli crack that the dealers

were ostli each other o the corers. d the smaller oes decided were oi

to take this show o the road. o they started oi to other cies. hey started

oi to Bakerseld they started oi to reso they started oi to a

racisco ad Oaklad where they didt have crack markets ad obody kew

what this stff was ad they had wide ope markets or themselves. d sddely

crack started showi p i city aer city aer city ad oemes it was Crips ad

Bloods rom Los eles who were star these markets. By 98 it was all p

ad dow the east coast ad by 989 it was aowide.

oday ortately crack se is o a dowward tred bt thats somethi that

ist de to ay reat proress weve made i the so-called "ar o Drs" its the

atral cycle o this. Dr epidemics eerally r rom 0 to 5 years. eroi is

ow the latest dr o the pswi.

Now a lot o people disareed with this sceario. he New York Times, the LA

Times ad the Washington Postall came ot ad said oh o thats ot so. hey


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said this coldt have happeed that way becase crack wold have happeed

ayway. hich is tre somewhat. s poited ot i the rst chapter o my book

crack was o its way here. Bt whether it wold have happeed the same way

whether it wold have happeed i oth Cetral whether it wold have

happeed i Los eles at all rst is a very differet story. it had happeed i

Eee Oreo rst it miht ot have oe aywhere. [Restless shffli ad thesods o throats bei cleared amo the adiece.] No offese bt yo olks

aret exactly tred seers p here whe it comes to dr dealers ad dr ads.

L is however. [o lahter ad mrmri amo the adiece.]

Yo ca play "what i" ames all yo like bt it doest chae the reality. d the

reality is that this C-coected dr ri played a very crical role i the early

980s i opei p oth Cetral to a crack epidemic that was matched i its

severity ad iflece aywhere i the ..

Oe eso that ask people who say "Oh dot believe this" is okay tell me

this why did crack appear i black eihborhoods rst hy did crack distribo

etworks leapro rom oe black eihborhood to other black eihborhoods

ad bypass white eihborhoods ad bypass ispaic eihborhoods ad sia

eihborhoods Or overmet ad the maistream media have ive s varyi

explaaos or this pheomeo over the years ad they are ice comor

eeral explaaos which absolve ayoe o ay resposibility or why crack is so

ethically specic. Oe o the reasos were told is that well its poverty. s i the

oly poor eihborhoods i this cotry were black eihborhoods. d were

told its hih teeae employmet; these kids oa have obs. s i the hills ad

hollows o ppalachia dot have teeae employmet rates that are te mes

hiher tha ier city Los eles. d the were told that its loose amily

strctre -- yo kow presmi that there are o white sile mothers ot theretryi to raise kids o low-payi obs or welare ad ood stamps. d the were

told well its becase crack is so cheap -- becase it sells or a lower price i oth

Cetral tha it sells aywhere else. Bt twety bcks is twety bcks o maer

where yo o i the cotry.

o oce yo have elimiated these sort o o-sesical explaaos yo are le

with two theories which are ar less comortable. he rst theory -- which is ot

somethi persoally sbscribe to bt its ot there -- is that theres somethi

abot black eihborhoods which cases them to be eecally predisposed to

dr trafficki. hats a racist armet that o oe i their riht mid is

advaci pblicly althoh tell yo whe was readi a lot o the stories ithe Washington Postad the New York Times, they were talki abot black

mericas bei more sscepble to "cospiracy theories" tha white mericas

which is why they believe the story more. thik that was sort o the derlyi

crret there. O the other had didt see ay stories abot all the white

people who thik Elvis is alive sll or that itlers brai is preserved dow i Brazil


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to await the orth Reich... [lahter rom the adiece] ...which is a parclarly

white cospiracy theory didt see ay stories i the New York Times abot that...

he other more palatable reaso which i my mid comes closer to the trth is

that someoe started brii cheap cocaie ito black eihborhoods riht at the

me whe dr sers bea ri ot how to tr it ito crack. d this

allowed black dr dealers to et a head start o every other ethic rop i terms

o se p distribo systems ad trafficki systems.

Now oe thi ve leared abot the dr bsiess while researchi this is that

i may ways it is the epitome o capitalism. t is the prest orm o capitalism. Yo

have o overmet relao a wide-ope market a byers market -- aythi

oes. Bt these this dot spri ot o the rod lly ormed. ts like ay

bsiess. t takes me to row them. t takes me to set p etworks. o oce

these distribo etworks ot set p ad established i primarily oth Cetral

Los eles primarily black eihborhoods they spread it alo ethic ad

cltral lies. Yo had black dealers rom L oi to black eihborhoods i other

cies becase they kew people there they had rieds there ad thats why yo

saw these etworks pop p rom oe black eihborhood to aother black

eihborhood.

Now exactly the same thi happeed o the east coast a cople o years later.

he crack rst appeared o the east coast it appeared i Caribbea

eihborhoods i Miami -- thaks larely to the amaicas who were si their

dr prots to d polical ais back home. t was almost the exact opposite o

what happeed i L i that the polics were the opposite -- bt it was the same

pheomeo. d oce the Miami market was satrated they moved to New

York they moved east ad they started brii crack rom the east coast towards

the middle o the cotry.

o it seems to me that i yore looki or the root o yor dr problems i a

eihborhood othi else maers except the drs ad where theyre comi

rom ad how theyre e there. d all these other reasos cited are sed as

explaaos or how crack became poplar bt it doest explai how the cocaie

ot there i the rst place. d thats where the cotras came i.

Oe o the this which these ewspapers who dissed my story were sayi was

we cat believe that the C wold kow abot dr trafficki ad let it happe.

hat this idea that this aecy which ets $27 billio a year to tell s whats oi

o ad which was so imately ivolved with the cotras they were wri theirpress releases or them they woldt kow abot this dr trafficki oi o

der their oses. Bt the Times ad the Postall crically reported their claims

that the C didt kow what was oi o ad that it wold ever permit its

hirelis to do aythi like that as seemly as dr trafficki. Yo kow

assassiaos ad bombis ad that sort o thi yeah theyll admit to riht p

rot bt dr deali o o they dot do that kid o stff.


10/29

ortately thoh it was tre ad what has happeed sice my series came

ot is that the C was orced to do a iteral review the DE ad sce

Departmet were orced to do iteral reviews ad these aecies that released

these reports yo probably didt read abot them becase they cotradicted

everythi else these other ewspapers had bee wri or the last cople o

years bt let me st read yo this oe excerpt. his is rom a 987 DE report.d this is abot this dr ri i Los eles that wrote abot. 987 the DE

set dercover iormats iside this dr operao ad they iterviewed oe

o the pricipals o this oraizao amely va orres. d this is what he said.

e told the iormat

"he C wats to kow abot dr trafficki bt oly or their ow prposes

ad ot ecessarily or the se o law eorcemet aecies. orres told DE

Codeal ormat that C represetaves are aware o his dr-related

acvies ad that they dot mid. e said they had oe so ar as to ecorae

cocaie trafficki by members o the cotras becase they kow its a ood

sorce o icome. ome o this moey has oe ito mbered accots i Eropead aama as does the moey that oes to Maaa rom cocaie trafficki.

orres told the iormat abot receivi coteritelliece traii rom the

C ad had avowed that the C looks the other way ad i essece allows them

to eae i arcocs trafficki."

his is a DE report that was wrie i 987 whe this operao was sll oi

o. other member o this oraizao who was affiliated with the a racisco

ed o it said that i 985 -- ad this was to the C -- "Cabezas claimed that the

cotra cocaie operated with the kowlede o ad der the spervisio o the

C. Cabezas claimed that this dr eterprise was r with the kowlede o C

aet va mez."

Now this is oe o the stories that tried to do at the Mercury News was who this

ma va mez was. his was aer my oriial series came ot ad aer the

cotroversy started. wet back to Cetral merica ad od this ellow

Cabezas ad he told me all abot va mez. d came back corroborated it

with three ormer cotra officials. Mercury News woldt pt it i the ewspaper.

d they said "e have o evidece this ma eve exists."

ell the C spector eerals report came ot i October ad there was a

whole chapter o va mez. d the amazi thi was that va mez

admied i a C-admiistered polyraph test that he had bee eaed i

laderi dr moey the same moth that this ma told me he had bee

eaed i it. C kew abot it ad what did they do Nothi. hey said okay

o back to work. d they covered it p or ee years.

o the oe thi that ve leared rom this whole experiece is rst o all yo

cat believe the overmet -- o anything. d yo especiallycat believe them


11/29

whe theyre talki abot importat stff like this stff. he other thi is that

the media will believe the overmet beore they believe anything.

his has bee the most amazi thi to me. Yo had a sitao where yo had

aother ewspaper who reported this iormao. he maor ews oraizaos

i this cotry wet to the C they wet to the sce Departmet ad they

said what abot it d they said oh o its ot tre. ake or word or it. d

they wet back ad pt it i the ewspaper! Now try to imaie what wold

happe had reporters come back to their editors ad said look kow the C is

ivolved i dr trafficki. d kow the B kows abot it ad ve ot a

codeal sorce thats telli me that. Ca write a story abot that hat do

yo thik the aswer wold have bee [Mrmrs o "o" rom the adiece.] et

back dow to the obit desk. tart craki ot those sports scores. Bt i they o

to the overmet ad the overmet deies somethi like that theyll pt it i

the paper with o corroborao whatsoever.

d its oly sice the overmet has admied it that ow the media is willi to

cosider that there miht be a story here aer all. he New York Times, aer the

C report that came ot ra a story o its rot pae sayi osh the cotras

were ivolved i drs aer all ad osh the C kew abot it.

Now yo wold thik -- at least I wold thik -- that somethi like that wold

warrat Coressioal ivesao. ere spedi millios o dollars to d ot

how may mes Bill Clito had sex with Moica Lewisky. hy aret we

iterested i how mch the C kew abot dr traffic ho was pro rom

this dr traffic ho else kew abot it d why did it take some y rom a

Calioria ewspaper by accidet stmbli over this stff te years later i order

or it to be importat mea what the hell is oi o here ve bee a reporter

or almost twety years. o me this is a atral story. he C is ivolved i dr

trafficki Lets kow abot it. Lets d ot abot it. Lets do somethi abot it.

Nobody wats to toch this thi.

d the other thi that came ot st recetly which obody seems to kow

abot becase it hast bee reported -- the C spector eeral wet beore

Coress i March ad tesed that yes they kew abot it. hey od some

docmets that idicated that they kew abot it yeah. was there ad this was

y to watch becase these Coressme were p there ad they were ready

to hear the absolo riht "e had o evidece that this was oi o..." d

this y sort o threw em a crve ball ad admied that it had happeed.

Oe o the people said well eez what was the Cs resposibility whe they

od ot abot this hat were yo ys spposed to do d the spector

eeral sort o looked arod ervosly cleared his throat ad said "ell... thats

kid o a odd history there." d Norma Dix rom ashito bless his heart

didt let it o at that. e said "Explai what yo mea by that" d the

spector eeral said well we were looki arod ad we od this docmet


12/29

ad accordi to the docmet we didt have to report this to aybody. d they

said "ow come" d the said we dot kow exactly bt there was a

areemet made i 982 betwee Bill Casey -- a e merica as we all kow

[lahter rom the adiece] -- ad illiam rech mith who was the the

orey eeral o the ited tates. d they reached a areemet that said i

there is dr trafficki ivolved by C aets we dot have to tell the sceDepartmet. oest to od. oest to od. ctally this is ow a pblic record

this docmet. Maxie aters st ot copies o it shes p it o the

Coressioal Record. t is ow o the Cs web site i yo care to orey ito

that area. yo do check ot the C eb ite or Kids its reat love it.

[Laher rom the adiece.] kid yo ot theyve actally ot a web pae or

kids.

he other thi abot this areemet was this wast st like a thirty-day

areemet -- this thi stayed i effect rom 982 l 995. o all these years

these aecies had a etlemas areemet that i C assets or C aets were

ivolved i dr trafficki it did ot eed to be reported to the sceDepartmet.

o thik that elimiates ay esos that dr trafficki by the cotras was a

accidet or was a maer o st a ew roe apples. thik what this said was that

it was acipated by the sce Departmet it was acipated by the C ad

steps were take to esre that there was a loophole i the law so that i it ever

became pblic kowlede obody wold be prosected or it.

he other thi is whe eore Bsh pardoed -- remember those Christmas

pardos that he haded ot whe he was o his way ot the door a ew years

ao he media ocsed o old Caspar eiberer ot pardoed it was terrible.

ell i yo looked dow the list o ames at the other pardos he haded ot

there was a y amed Claire eore there was a y amed l iers there was

aother y amed oe erdez. d these stories sort o brshed them off ad

said well they were C officials were ot oi to say mch more abot it.

hese were the C officials who were resposible or the cotra war. hese were

the me who were ri the cotra operao. d the text o Bshs pardo

ot oly pardos them or the crimes o ra-cotra it pardos them or

everything. o ow that we kow abot it we cat eve do aythi abot it.

hey all received presideal pardos.

o where does that leave s ell thik it sort o leaves s to rely o the

dmet o history. Bt that is a daeros step. e didt kow abot this stff

two years ao; we kow abot it ow. eve ot Coressme who are o loer

willi to believe that C aets are "hoorable me" as illiam Colby called

them. d weve ot approximately a thosad paes o evidece o C dr

trafficki o the pblic record ally.


13/29

hat said let me tell yo there are thosads o paes more that we sll dot

kow abot. he C report that came ot i October was oriially 00 paes; by

the me we ot ahold o it it was oly 300 paes.

Oe last thi wat to meo -- Bob arry who is a e ivesave reporter

he rs a maazie i ashito called I.F. Magazine, ad hes ot a reat

website check it ot -- he did a story abot two weeks ao abot some o the stff

that was cotaied i the C report that we didn'tet to see. d oe o the

stories he wrote was abot how there was a secondC dr ri i oth Cetral

Los eles that ra rom 988 to 99. his was ot eve the oe wrote abot.

here was aother oe there. his was classied.

he iteres thi is it was r by a C aet who had parcipated i the

cotra war ad the reaso it was classied is becase it is der ivesao by

the C. dobt very seriosly that well ever hear aother word abot that.

Bt the oe thi that we ca do ad the oe thi that Maxie aters is tryi

to do is orce the ose telliece Commiee to hold hearis o this. his isspposed to be the oversiht commiee o the C. hey have held oe heari

ad aer they od ot there was this deal that they didt have to report dr

trafficki they all ra ot o the room they havet coveed sice.

o i yore iterested i prsi this the thi wold sest yo do is call p

the ose telliece Commiee i ashito ad ask them whe were oi

to have aother Ccotracrack heari. Believe me itll drive them crazy. ed

them email st ask them make sre -- they thik everybodys oroe abot

this. mea i yo look arod the room toiht dot thik its bee oroe.

hey wants to oret abot it. hey wants to cocetrate o sex crimes

becase yeah its lla. t keeps s occpied. t keeps s diverted. Dot letthem do it.

haks very mch or yor aeo appreciate it. ell do esos ad

aswers ow or as lo as yo wat.

[Robst applase.]

Qeso ad swer essio

Gary Webb: ve bee istrcted to repeat the eso so...


14/29

Voice From te Aience: Yo talked abot eore Bsh pardoi people. ive

eore Bshs history with the C do yo kow whe he rst kew abot this

ad what he kew

Gary Webb: ell didt at the me wrote the book do ow. he eso

was whe did eore Bsh rst kow abot this he C i its latest report said

that they had prepared a detailed brie or the vice presidet -- thik it was

985 -- o all these alleaos o cotra dr trafficki ad delivered it to him

persoally. o its hard or eore to say he was ot o the loop o this oe.

ll tell yo aother thi oe o the most amazi this od i the Naoal

rchives was a report that had bee wrie by the .. oreys Office i ampa

-- believe it was 987. hey had st bsted a Colombia dr trafficker amed

lle Rdd ad they were si him as a coopera witess. Rdd areed to o

dercover ad set p other dr traffickers ad they were debrie him.

Now let me set the stae or yo. he yo are bei debrieed by the ederal

overmet or se as a iormat yore ot oi to o i there ad tell themcrazy-sodi stories becase theyre ot oi to believe yo theyre oi to

slap yo i ail riht hat Rdd told them was that he was ivolved i a mee

with ablo Escobar who was the the head o the Medell cartel. hey were

worki ot arraemets to set p cocaie shipmets ito oth lorida. e said

Escobar started ra ad ravi abot that damed eore Bsh ad ow hes

ot that oth lorida Dr ask orce set p which has really bee maki this

difficlt ad the mas a traitor. d he sed to deal with s bt ow he wats to

be presidet ad thiks that hes doble-crossi s. d Rdd said well what are

yo talki abot d Escobar said we made a deal with that y that we were

oi to ship weapos to the cotras they were i there flyi weapos dow to

Colmbia we were loadi weapos we were e them to the cotras ad

the deal was we were spposed to et or stff to the ited tates withot ay

problems. d that was the deal that we made. d ow he doble-crossed s.

o the .. orey heard this ad he wrote this paicky memo to ashito

sayi yo kow this ma has bee very reliable so ar everythi hes told s

has checked ot ad ow hes sayi that the Vice residet o the ited tates

is ivolved with dr traffickers. e miht wat to check this ot. d it wet all

the way p -- the y thi abot overmet docmets is wheever it passes

over somebodys desk they have to iial it. d this thi was like a ladder it

wet all the way p ad all the way p ad it ot p to the head o the Crimial

Divisio at the sce Departmet ad he looked at it ad said looks like a ob or

Lawrece alsh! d so he set it over to alsh the ra-cotra prosector ad

he said here yo take it you deal with this. d alshs office -- iterviewed

alsh ad he said we didt have the athority to deal with that. e were

looki at Ollie North. o said did aybody ivesate this d the aswer was


15/29

"o." d that thi sat i the Naoal rchives or te years obody ever looked

at it.

Voice From te Aience: s that i yor book

Gary Webb: Yeah.

Voice From te Aience: hak yo.

Aience Member #1: ell rst o all d like to thak yo or prsi this story

yo have a lot o ts to do it.

[pplase rom the adiece.]

Gary Webb: his is what reporters are spposed to do. his is what reporters are

spposed to do. dot thik was doi aythi special.

Aience Member #1: ll theres ot too may ys like yo that are doi it.

Gary Webb: hats tre theyve all sll ot obs.

[Lahter scaered applase.]

Aience Member #1: st had a cople o esos the rst oe is ollowed

the story o the web site ad thoht it was a really reat story it was really well

doe. d oced that the San Jose Mercury News seemed to spport yo or a

while ad the all the sdde that spport collapsed. o was woderi what

yor relaoship is with yor editor there ad how that all played ot ad whe

they all plled ot the r rom der yo.

Gary Webb: ell the spport collapsed probably aer the LA Times... he

Washington [Post] came ot rst the New York Times came ot secod ad theLA Times came ot third ad they started e ervos. heres a pheomeo

i the media we all kow its called "pili o" ad they started seei themselves

e piled o. hey set me back dow to Cetral merica two more mes to

do more repor ad came back with stories that were eve more otraeos

tha what they prited i the ewspaper thefirstme. d they were aced with

a sitao o ow were accsi Oliver North o bei ivolved i dr

trafficki. Now were accsi the sce Departmet o bei part ad parcel to

this. eez i we et beat p over accsi a cople o C aets o bei ivolved

i this what the hell is oi to happe ow d they actally said had memos

sayi yo kow i we r these stories there is oi to be a restorm o

cricism.

o thik they took the easy way ot. he easy way ot was ot to o ahead ad

do the story. t was to back off the story. Bt they had a problem becase the

story was true. d it ist every day that yore coroted with how to take a

dive o a tre story.


16/29

hey spet several moths -- hoestly literally becase was e these dras

back ad orth -- tryi to re ot how to say we dot spport this story eve

thoh its tre. d i yo o back ad yo read the editors colm yoll see

that the reat difficlty that he had tryi to take a dive o this thi. d he

eded p talki abot "ray areas" that shold have bee explored a lile more

ad "sbtlees" that we shold have ot brshed over so lihtly withotdisclosi the act that the series had oriially bee or parts ad they ct it to

three parts becase "obody reads or part series aymore." o that was oe

reaso.

he other reaso was yo kow oe o the this yo lear very ickly whe

yo et ito oralism is that theres saety i mbers. Editors dot like bei

ot there o a limb all by themselves. remember very clearly oi to press

coereces comi back wri a story sedi it i ad my editor calli p

ad sayi well ee this ist what wrote. Or the hronicle st ra their story

ad thats ot what the hronicle wrote. d d say "ie. ood." d they said

o weve ot to make it the same we dot wat to be differet. e dot wator story to be differet rom everybody elses.

d so what they were seei at the Mercurywas the Bi hree ewspapers were

si o oe side o the ece ad they were ot there by themselves ad that

st paicked the hell ot o them. o yo have to derstad ewspaper

metality to derstad it a lile bit bt its ot too hard to derstad

cowardice either. thik a lot o that was that they were st scared as hell to o

ahead with the story.

Aience Member #1: ere they able to look yo i the eye ad...

Gary Webb: No. hey didt they st did this over the phoe. wet toacrameto.

Aience Member #1: he did yo d ot abot it ad what did yo...

Gary Webb: Oh they called me p at home two moths aer tred i my last

or stories ad said were oi to write a colm sayi yo kow were ot

oi ahead with this. d thats whe mped i the car ad drove p there ad

said what the hells oi o d ot all these mealy-mothed aswers yo

kow eez ray areas sbtlees oe thi or aother... Bt said tell me oe

thi thats wro with the story ad obody cold ever poit to aythi. d

today to this day obody has ever said there was a actal error i that story.

Inaible eson rom te aience.

Gary Webb: he eso was the editors are oe thi what abot the readers

m... who cares abot the readers oestly. he readers dot r the

ewspaper.


17/29

Anoter inaible eson rom te aience rearin leers to te eitor

an boycos o te nespaper.

Gary Webb: ell a mber o them did ad believe me the ewspaper office

was flooded with calls ad emails. d the ewspaper to their credit prited a

bch o them calli it the most cowardly thi theyd ever see. Bt i the lo

r the readers yo kow dot r the place. d thats the thi abot

ewspaper markets these days. Yo olks really dot have ay choice! hat else

are yo oi to read d the editors kow this.

he started i this bsiess we had two ewspapers i tow where worked i

Cicia. d we were deathly araid that i we sat o a story or 24 hors the

incinna Inuirerwas oi to pt it i the paper ad we were oi to look like

dopes. e were oi to look like we were coveri stff p we were oi to

look like we were protec somebody. o we were p stff i the paper

withot thiki abot it somemes bt we ot it i the paper. Now we ca sit o

stff or moths whos oi to d ot abot it d eve i somebody od

ot abot it what are they oi to do hats the bi daer that everybody has

sort o missed. hese oe-ewspaper tows yove ot o choice. Yove ot o

choice. d televisio elevisios ot oi to do it. mea theyre dow lmi

aimals at the zoo!

[Lahter ad applase.]

Aience Member #2: assme yo have talked to oh Cmmis the oe that

wrote ompromised, that book

Gary Webb: talked to erry Reed who was the pricipal athor o that yeah.

Aience Member #2: ell that was a well-docmeted book ad had st

ished readi this whe happeed to look dow ad see the headlies o the

day paper. d he stated that Oliver North told him persoally that he was a

C asset that maactred weapos.

Gary Webb: Riht.

Aience Member #2: he he discovered that they were impor cocaie he

ot ot o there. d they chased him with his amily across cotry or two years

tryi to catch him. Bt he had said i that book that Oliver North told him that

Vice residet Bsh told Oliver North to dirty Clitos me with the dr moey.

hich assmed was what hitewater was all abot was di the laderiad tryi to d somethi o Clito. Do yo kow aythi abot that

Gary Webb: Yeah let me sm p yor eso. Esseally yore aski abot

the ois-o i Mea rkasas becase o the dr operaos oi o at this

lile air base i rkasas while Clito was overor dow there. he ellow yo

reerred to erry Reed wrote a book called ompromisedwhich talked abot his

role i this corporate operao i Mea which was iially desied to trai


18/29

cotra pilots -- Reed was a pilot -- ad it was also desied aer the Bolad

medmet wet ito effect to et weapos parts to the cotras becase the C

coldt provide them aymore. d as Reed ot ito this weapos parts bsiess

he discovered that the C was shippi cocaie back throh these weapos

crates that were comi back ito the ited tates. d whe he blew the

whistle o it he was sort o set o this lo odyssey o crimial chares beiled aaist him etcetera etcetera etcetera. lot o what Reed wrote is accrate

as ar as ca tell ad a lot o it was docmeted.

here is a ose Baki Commiee ivesao that has bee oi o ow or

abot three years looki specically at Mea rkasas looki specically at a

dr trafficker amed Barry eal who was oe o the biest cocaie ad

mariaa importers i the soth side o the ited tates dri the 980s. eal

was also coicidetally worki or the C ad was worki or the Dr

Eorcemet dmiistrao.

dot kow how may o yo remember this bt oe iht Roie Reaa ot o

V ad held p a raiy pictre ad said heres proo that the adaistas are

deali drs. Look heres ablo Escobar ad theyre all loadi cocaie ito a

plae ad this was take i Nicaraa. his was the eve o a vote o the cotra

aid. hat photoraph was set p by Barry eal. he plae that was sed was eals

plae ad it was the same plae that was shot dow over Nicaraa a cople o

years later that Eee ases was i that broke ope the whole ra-cotra

scadal.

he Baki Commiee is spposed to be comi ot with a report i the ext

cople o moths looki at the relaoship betwee Barry eal the ..

overmet ad Clitos olks. lex Cockbr has doe a mber o stories o

this compay called ark-O Meter dow i Rssellville rkasas thats hooked

p with Clitos amily hooked p with illarys law rm that sort o thi. o

me thats a story people oht to be looki at. ever thoht hitewater was

mch o a story rakly. hat thoht the story was abot was Clitos bddy

Da Lasater the bod broker dow there who was a covicted cocaie trafficker.

Clito pardoed him o his way to ashito. Lasater was a maor dr

trafficker ad erry Reeds book claims Lasater was part ad parcel with this whole

thi.

Voice From te Aience: Cockbrs ewsleer is called ounterpunch, ad hes

doe a ood ob o deedi yo i it.

Gary Webb: Yeah Cockbr has also wrie a book called Whiteout, which is a

very iteres look at the history o C dr trafficki. ctally thik its

selli prey well itsel. he New York Times hated it o corse bt what else is

ew


19/29

Aience Member #2: ell st wated to meo that he states also -- ess

it was erry Reed who was actally doi the work -- he said Bsh was ri the

whole thi as vice presidet.

Gary Webb: thik that eore Bshs role i this whole thi is oe o the lare

explored areas o it.

Aience Member #2: hich is why thik Reaa pt him in as vice presidet

becase o his posio with the C.

Gary Webb: ell yo kow that whole oth lorida Dr ask orce was fullo

C operaves. Fullo them. his was spposed to be or vaard i the war

aaist cocaie cartels ad i those Colombias are to be believed this was the

vehicle that we were si to ship arms ad allow cocaie ito the cotry this

Dr ask orce. Nobodys looked at that. Bt there are lots o cles that theres a

lot to be d ot.

Aience Member #3: hak yo ary. lost my eatre colmist posio at mycollee paper or wri a sare o Chrisaity some years ao ad...

Gary Webb: hatll do it yeah. [Lahter rom the adiece.]

Aience Member #3: d lost my ob twice i the last ve years becase o my

acvism i the commity bt ot a ob [iadible]. Bt my eso is kew

someoe i the mid-80s who said that he was i the Navy ad that he had

iormao that the Navy was ivolved i deliveri cocaie to this cotry.

other kid o bombshell d like to have yo commet o it saw a video some

years ao that said the O research thats bei doe dow i the sothwest is

bei ded by dr moey ad cocaie dealis by the C ad that there are

25 top secret levels o overmet above the op ecret cateory ad that there

are some levels that eve the presidet doest kow abot. o theres aother

topic or aother book st wated to have yo commet...

Gary Webb: number of topics or aother book. [Lahter rom the adiece.]

dot kow abot the O research bt do kow yore riht that we have very

lile idea how vast the itelliece commity i this cotry is or what theyre

p to. thik theres a reat story brewi -- its called the ECELON proram ad

it ivolves the shari o eavesdropped emails ad cell phoe commicaos

becase it is illeal or them to do it i this cotry. o theyve bee oi to New

Zealad ad stralia ad Caada ad havi those overmets eavesdrop o

or coversaos ad tell s abot it. ve read a cople o stories abot it i the

Elish press ad read a cople o stories abot it i the Caadia press bt ve

see precios lile i the merica press. Bt theres stff o the teret that

circlates abot that i yore iterested i the topic. thik its called the

ECELON proram.

Aience Member #4: m lad yo broht p ames Brke ad his onnecons,

becase there are a lot o coecos here. Oe didt hear too mch abot ad


20/29

kow yove doe a lot o research o was how compters ad hih tech was

sed by the Crips ad Bloods early o. lived i soth L prior to this kew some

o these people ad yore riht they had virtally o edcao. d to sddely

have a operao thats compter literate ridi ot o Bakerseld reso o

orth ad the east i a very ick period -- m sll leari the compter m

probably as old as yo are or older -- so d like to hear somethi o that. hewhole dislocao o soth L that occrred -- the as esval the whole

empowermet o the black commity was occrri beii i the late 0s

ad ito the early 70s ad mid-70s ad the collapses ito a sea o flippi

demoraphics ad sddely by 990 it is El alvadora-domiated. d thats

aother crios part o this eao as we talk abot drs.

Gary Webb: ell thats ite a bevy o this there. s ar as the sophiscao o

the Crips ad the Bloods the oe thi that probably shold have meoed was

that whe Dailo Blad wet dow to oth Cetral to start selli this dope

he had a M.B.. i marke. o he kew what he was doi. is ob or the

omoza overmet was se p wholesale markets or aricltral prodcts.ed received a M.B.. thaks to s actally -- we helped ace him we helped

sed him to the iversity o Boata to et his M.B.. so he cold o back to

Nicaraa ad he actally came to the ited tates to sell dope to the as. o

this was a very sophiscated operao.

Oe o the moey laderers rom this rop was a macro-ecoomist -- his cle

Orlado Mrillo was o the Cetral Bak o Nicaraa. he weapos advisor they

had was a y whod bee a cop or ee years. hey had aother weapos

advisor who had bee a Navy EL. Yo dot et these kids o people by p

ads i the paper. his is ot a dr ri that st sort o alls toether by chace.

his is like a all-star ame. hich is why sspect more ad more that this thiwas set p by a hiher athority tha a cople o dr dealers.

Aience Member #5: i ary st wat to thak yo or oi aaist the traffic

o this whole deal. m i the oralism school p at . o O. ad m iterested i

the story behindthe story. was hopi yo cold share some aecdotes abot

the kid o acvity that yo eaed i to et the story. or example whe yo et

off a plae i Nicaraa what do yo do here do yo start ow do yo talk to

"reeway" Ricky ow do yo o aaist a overmet stoewall

Gary Webb: he eso is how do yo do a story like this esseally. ell thi

ve always od is i yo o kock o somebodys door theyre a lot less apt to

slam it i yor ace tha i yo call them p o the telephoe. o the reaso

wet dow to Nicaraa was to o kock o doors. didt o dow there ad st

step off a plae -- od a ellow dow i Nicaraa ad we hired him as a

strier a ellow amed eore odel who is a marvelos ivesave reporter

he kew all sorts o overmet officials dow there. d speak o paish


21/29

which was aother hadicap. eore speaks like or laaes. o yo d

people like that to help yo ot.

ith these dr dealers yo kow its amazi how willi they are to talk. did a

series while was i Ketcky o oraized crime i the coal idstry. d it was

abot this mass o stock swidlers who had looted all treet back i the 0s ad

moved dow to Ketcky i the 70s while the coal boom was oi o dri the

eery shortae. he lesso leared i that thi -- thoht these ys wold

ever talk to me red theyd be crazy to talk to a reporter abot the scams

they were plli. Bt they were happyto talk abot it they wereaeredthat

yo wold come to them ad say hey tell me abot what yo do. ell me yor

reatest kock-off. hose ys wold o o orever! o yo kow everybody o

maer what they do they sort o have pride i their work... [Lahter rom the

adiece.] d yo kow od that whe yo appeared iterested they wold

be happy to tell yo.

he people who lied to me the people who slammed doors i my ace were the

DE ad the B. he DE called me dow -- wrote abot this i the book -- they

had a mee ad they were telli me that i wrote this story was oi to

help dr traffickers bri drs ito the cotry ad was oi to et DE

aets killed ad this that ad the other thi all o which was erly bllshit. o

thats the thi -- st ask. heres really o secret to it.

Aience Member #6: d like to ask a cople o esos very ickly. he rst

oe is i yo woldt mid bei a reerece libraria or a momet -- there was

the olde riale. was st woderi i yove ever i yor criosity abot

this toched o that -- the dr ris ad the heroi trade ot o otheast sia.

d the secod oe is abot the ellow rom the Houston hronicle dot

remember his ame riht off bt yo kow who m talki abot i yo cold st

toch o that a lile bit...

Gary Webb: Yes. he rst eso was abot whether ever toched o what was

oi o i the olde riale. ortately didt have to -- theres a reat book

called The Polics of Heroin in Southeast Asia, by lred McCoy which is sort o a

classic i C dr trafficki lore. dot thik yo ca et ay beer tha that.

hats a reat reerece i the library yo ca o check it ot. McCoy was a

proessor at the iversity o iscosi who wet to Laos dri the me that the

secret war i Laos was oi o ad he wrote abot how the C was flyi heroi

ot o ir merica. hats the thi that really srprised me abot the reaco to

my story was its ot like iveted this stff. heres a lo lo history o C

ivolvemet i dr traffic which Cockbr ets ito i Whiteout.

d the secod eso was abot ete Brewto -- there was a reporter i

osto or the Houston Postamed ete Brewto who did the series -- thik it

was 9 or 92 -- o the strae coecos betwee the &L collapses

parclarly i exas ad C aets. d his theory was that a lot o these


22/29

collapses were ot mismaaemet they were iteoal. hese this were

looted with the idea that a lot o the moey was siphoed off to d covert

operaos overseas. d Brewto wrote this series ad it was y becase

aer all hell broke loose o my story called him p ad he said "ell was

wai or this to happe to yo." d said "hy" d he said " was exactly

like yo are. d bee i this bsiess or twety years d wo all sorts o awardsd lectred i collee oralism corses ad wrote a series that had these three

lile leers C-- i it. d sddely was reliable ad coldt be trsted ad

Reed rvie at ccracy Media was wri asty this abot me ad my editor

had lost codece i me so it the bsiess ad wet to law school."

Brewto wrote a book called George Bush, IA and the Mafia. ts hard to d bt

its worth looki p i yo ca d it. ts all there its all docmeted. ee the

differece betwee his story ad my story was we pt ors ot o the web ad it

ot ot. Brewtos story is sort o coed to the prited pae ad thik the

Washington Journalism Reviewactally wrote a story abot how come obodys

wri abot this obodys picki p this story. Nobody toched this story it stsort o died. d the same thi wold have happeed with my series had we ot

had this amazi web pae. hak od we did or this thi wold have st

slipped dereath the waves ad obody wold have ever heard abot it.

Aience Member #7: m lad yore here. ess the C there was somethi

read i the paper a cople o years ao that said the C is actally mrderi

people ad they admied it they dot sally do that.

Gary Webb: ts a ew brst o hoesty rom the ew C.

Aience Member #7: heyll mrder s with kidess. the Chicao police

orce there were abot 0 officers who were kicked off the police orce or doidrs or selli drs ad eore Bsh or somethi... heard that he had a

bddy who had a lot o moey i dr tes eipmet so thats oe reaso

everybody has to pee i a cp ow... [Lahter rom the adiece.] he other

thi od there was a meth lab close to here ad somebody who wast eve

ivolved with it he was paralyzed... d as yo kow we have the "st ay No to

Drs" deal... hat do yo thik we ca do to stop s the eople rom bei

hypozed oce aai rom all these sheaias doi other people iry i

terms o these kids o messaes at the same me theyre selli. Becase all this

moey is bei spet or all this...

Gary Webb: ess the eso is what cold yo do to keep rom beihypozed by the media messae specically o the Dr ar s that what

yore talki abot

Aience Member #7: Yeah or all the ds... like theres aother thi here with

the meth lab they say well kid o tr people i...

Gary Webb: Oh yeah the ao o iormers.


23/29

Aience Member #7: Yeah.

Gary Webb: hats somethi have to lah abot -- p l thik 75 or 7

probably eve later tha that yo cold o to yor doctor ad et

methamphetamie. mea there were hosewives by the hdreds o thosads

across the ited tates who were taki it every day to lose weiht ad ow all

the sdde it was the worst thi o the ace o the earth. hats oe thi ot

ito i the book was the sort o crack hysteria i 98 that prompted all these

crazy laws that are sll o the books today ad the 00 seteci rao... dot

kow how may o yo saw o B a cople o ihts back there was a reat

show o iormats called "itch." [Mrmrs o recoio rom the adiece.]

Yeah o Frontline. hat was very heartei to see becase dot thik te years

ao that it wold have stood a chace i hell o e o the air.

hat m seei ow is that a lot o people are ally waki p to the idea that

this "dr war" has bee a rad sice the et-o. My persoal opiio is thik

the mai prpose o this whole dr war was to sort o erode civil liberes very

slowly ad very radally ad sort o pt s dow ito a police state. [Robst

brst o applase rom the adiece.] d were prey close to that. ve ot to

had it to them theyve doe a ood ob. e have o orth medmet le

aymore were all peei i cps ad were all doi all sorts o this that or

parets probably wold have marched i the streets abot.

he solo to that is to read somethi other tha the daily ewspaper ad tr

off the V ews. mea m sorry hate to say that bt thats mid-rot. Yove

ot to d alterave sorces o iormao. [Robst applase.]

Voice From te Aience: ow ca yo say that it was all a chai reaco that it

was ot doe deliberately ad o the other had say it has at the same medeliberately eroded or rihts

Gary Webb: ell the eso was how ca say o oe had it was a chai

reaco ad o the other had say the dr war was set p deliberately to erode

or rihts. mea yore talki abot sort o macro verss micro. d do ot

ive the C that mch credit that they cold pla these vast cospiracies dow

throh the aes ad have them work -- most o them dot.

hat m sayi is yo have police rops yo have police lobbyi rops yo

have priso ard rops -- they seize opporties whe they come alo. he

Dr ar has ive them a lot o opporties to say okay ow lets lethepriso seteces. hy ell becase i yo keep people i ail loer yo eed

more priso ards. Lets bild more prisos. hy ell people et obs priso

ards et obs. he police stay i bsiess. e eed to d more o them. e

eed to ive bier bdets to the correcoal acilies. his is all very coscios

bt dot thik aybody sat i a room i 974 ad said okay by 995 were

oi to have X mber o mericas locked p or der parole spervisio.

dot thik they mid -- yo kow thik they like that. Bt dot thik it was a


24/29

coscios effort. thik it was st oe bad idea aer aother bad idea

compoded with a stpid idea compoded with a reallystpid idea. d here

we are. o dot kow i that aswers yor eso or ot...

Aience Member #8: o me the ra-cotra story was oe o the most

iteres ad totally rstra this. d the more iormao the more

abot it heard -- we dot kow aythi abot it mea i yo look or ay

official data they dey everythi. d to see Ollie North the pstadi ble-

eyed merica stadi there lyi throh his teeth ad we knewit... [adible

commet "beore Coress ad the residet"] hat alls me is that these

people who are ilty o hih crimes ad misdemeaors are ow e these

eormos pesios ad we have to pay or these bms. t sickes me!

Gary Webb: Riht.

Aience Member #8: d actally have a eso -- this is my eso by the

way kow yo have a thosad other esos [lahter rom the adiece] --

bt the oe that stays with me ad has always bothered me was the Chriscstte ad thoht it was atasc. d they were hit with this eormos

lawsit ad they had to bail ot. his eeds to be ["rehired"] becase they kew

what they were doi they had all the riht aswers ad they were r ot o

office so to say i disrace becase o this lawsit.

Gary Webb: he eso was abot the Chrisc stte ad abot how the ra-

cotra cotroversy is probably oe o the worst scadals. aree with yo thik

the ra-cotra scadal was worse tha ateratefarworse tha this osese

were doi ow. Bt ll tell yo thik the press played a very bi part i

dowplayi that scadal. Oe o the people iterviewed or the book was a

woma amed am Nahto who was oe o the best prosectors that the ra-cotra commiee had. d asked her why -- yo kow it was also the rst

scadal that was televised ad remember watchi them at iht. wold o to

work ad d set the VCR ad d come home at iht ad d watch the hearis.

he d pick p the paper the ext mori ad it was completelydifferet! d

coldt re it ot ad this has bothered me all these years.

o whe ot am Nahto o the phoe said what the hell happeed to the

press corps i ashito dri the ra-cotra scadal d she said well ca

tell yo what saw. he said every day we wold come ot at the start o this

hearis ad we wold lay ot a stack o docmets -- all the exhibits we were

oi to itrodce -- stff that she thoht was extremelyicrimia rot paestory aer rot pae story ad theyd sit them o a table. d she said every day

the press corps wold come i ad theyd say hi howre yo doi blah blah blah

ad theyd o sit dow i the rot row ad start talki abot yo kow did yo

see the ball ame last iht ad what they saw o ohy Carso. d she said

oe or two reporters wold o p ad et their stack o docmets ad o back

ad write abot it ad everybody else sat i the rot row ad they wold sit ad


25/29

say okay whats or story today d they wold all aree what the story was

ad theyd o back ad write it. Most o them ever eve looked at the exhibits.

d thats why say it was the presss alt becase there was so mch stff that

came ot o those hearis. hat sed to st drive me crazy yo wold neversee

it i the ewspaper. d dot thik its a cospiracy -- i aythi its a

cospiracy o stpidity ad laziess. talked to Bob arry abot this -- whe he

was worki or Newsweekcoveri ra-cotra they weret eve le him o

to the hearis. e had to et trascripts messeered to him at his hose

secretly so his editors woldt d ot he was actally readi the trascripts

becase he was wri stories that were so differet rom everybody elses.

Bob arry tells a story o bei at a dier party with Bobby ma rom the C

the editor oNewsweek, ad all the mckity-mcks -- this was his bi itrodco

ito ashito society. d they were si at the dier table i the midst o

the ra-cotra thi talki abot everythi butra-cotra. d Bob said he

had the bad taste o brii p the ra-cotra heari ad meoi oe

parclarly bad aspect o it. d he said the editor oNewsweeklooked at him

ad said "Yo kow Bob there are st some this that its beer the cotry

st doest kow abot." d all these admirals ad eerals si arod the

table all odded their heads i areemet ad they wated to talk abot

somethi else.

hats the atde. hats the atde i ashito. d thats the atde o

the ashito press corps ad owadays its eve worse tha that becase

ow i yo play the ame riht yo et a V show. Now yove ot the McLahli

rop. Now yo et yor m o CNN. Yo kow. d thats how they keep them

i lie. yore a rabble roser ad a shit-srrer they dot wat yor type o

televisio. hey wat the pdits.

he other eso was abot the Chrisc stte. hey had it all red ot. he

Chrisc stte had this thi red ot. hey led sit i May o 98 allei

that the Reaa admiistrao the C this sort o parallel overmet was oi

o. Oliver North was ivolved i it yo had the Bay o is Cbas that were

ivolved i it dow i Costa Rica they had ames they had dates ad they ot

murdered. d the Reaa admiistraos lie was theyre a bch o le-wi

liberal crazies this was cospiracy theory. yo wat to see what they really

thoht o to Oliver Norths diaries which are pblic -- the Naoal ecrity

rchive has ot them yo ca et them -- all he was wri abot aer the

Chrisc sttes sit was led was how weve ot to sht this thi dow how

we have to discredit these witesses how weve ot to et this y set p how

weve ot to et this y ot o the cotry... hey knewthat the Chrisc stte

was riht ad they were deathly araid that the merica pblic was oi to d

ot abot it.


26/29

am coviced that the de who was heari the case was part ad parcel to the

problem. e threw the case ot o cort ad ed the Chrisc stte thik it

was $.3 milliofor even bringing the lawsuit. t was deemed "rivolos

liao." d it ally bakrpted them. d they wet away.

Bt thats the problem whe yo try to take o the overmet i its ow area

ad the ederal corts are definitelypart o its ow area. hey make the rles.

d i cases like that yo dot stad a chace i hell it wot happe.

Voice From te Aience: Bt i yo caot et the trth i the corts i yo

caot write it i the papers the what do yo do

Gary Webb: Yo do it yorsel. Yo do it yorsel. Yove ot to start rebildi a

iormao system o yor ow. d thats whats oi o. ts very small bt

its happei. eople are talki to each other throh ewsrops o the

teret. eople are doi teret ewsleers.

Voice From te Aience: Do yo have a websiteEmcee: Lets se the mike lets se the mike.

Gary Webb: he eso is do have a website. No dot bt m bildi oe.

Inaible eson rom te aience.

Gary Webb: ell lets let these people who have bee stadi i lie...

[Commoo mrmri. omeoe calls ot "lease se the mike."]

Aience Member #9: he yo meoed prisos a momet ao coldt

help bt remember that it is mericas astest-rowi idstry the "priso

idstry" -- which is a hell o a phrase to itsel. Bt it seems that the C had

people alied throhot Cetral merica at oe poit ad El alvador with the

cotras ad i odras ad Nicaraa ad i aama Mael Noriea...

Gary Webb: Or "ma i aama" thats riht.

Aience Member #9: Yeah. Bt somethi wet wro with him ad he ot

piched i pblic. d m iterested to kow what yo thik abot that.

Gary Webb: he eso is abot Mael Noriea who was or "ma i aama"

or so may years. hat happeed to Noriea is that -- dot thik it had

aythi to do with the act that he was a dr trafficker becase we kew that

or years. hat it had to do with was what is oi to happe at the ed o this

year which is whe cotrol o the aama Caal oes over to the aamaias.

yo read the New York Times story that eymor ersh wrote back i e o 98

that exposed Noriea pblicly as a dr trafficker ad moey laderer there were

some very telli phrases i it. ll sorced atrally yo kow -- aribted

commets rom hih-raki overmet officials -- bt they talked abot how

they were ervos that Noriea had become reliable. d with cotrol o the


27/29

aama Caal rever to the aamaia overmet they were very ervos

at the idea o havi somebody as "stable" as Noriea ri the cotry at

that poit. d thik that was a well-oded ear. Yove ot a maor dr

trafficker cotrolli a maor marime thorohway. ca see the C bei

ervos abot bei ct ot o the bsiess. [Lahter rom the adiece.]

Bt thik thats what the whole thi with Noriea was abot -- they wated him

ot o there becase they wated somebody that they cold cotrol a lile more

closely i power i aama or whe the caal ets reverted back to them.

Aience Member #9: as there mch o a prot differece betwee Nicaraa

ad aama as ar as the drs wet

Gary Webb: ell what Noriea had doe was sort o create a iteraoal

baki ceter or dr moey. hat was his part o it. Nicaraa was othi ever

tha st a tras-shipmet poit. Cetral merica was ever aythi more tha a

tras-shipmet poit. Colmbia er ad Bolivia were the prodcers ad the

plaes eeded a place to reel ad thats all that Cetral merica ever was. hebaki was all doe i aama.

Aience Member #10: Yo talk abot how they sat o their stories the

ewspapers hy did they sddely decide to prse the stories

Gary Webb: hich stories are these

Aience Member #10: he stories abot the crack deali ad the C. hy did

they sddely decide that well actally...

Gary Webb: he eso was -- correct me i m wro -- the eso raised the

act that the other ewspapers didt do aythi abot this story or a while adthe aer wrote it they came aer me. s that what yore aski

Aience Member #10: ell yeah ad the evetally the C admied it... ad

mea why are people aski it sat or a lo me ad the sddely everyoe

was o it. hat was the tri poit that made them decide to prse it

Gary Webb: he tri poit that made them decide to prse the story was the

act that it had oe ot over the teret ad people were calli them p

sayi why dot yo have the story i yourewspaper Yo kow dot thik

the sbect maer rihteed the maor media as mch as the act that a lile

ewspaper i Norther Calioria was able to set the aoal aeda or oce.

d people were marchi i the streets people were holdi hearis i

ashito they were demadi Coressioal hearis yo had oh Detch

the C director o dow o that srreal trip dow to oth Cetral to covice

everyoe that everythi was okay... [Lahter rom the adiece.] d all o this

was happei withot the bi media bei ivolved i it at all. d the reaso


28/29

that happeed was becase we had a otlet -- we had the web. d the people

at the Mercury News did a atasc ob o this website.

d so ews was marchi o withot them. heres a proessor at the iversity

o iscosi whos doe a paper o the whole "Dark lliace" thi ad her

thesis is that this story was sht dow more becase o how it ot ot tha or

what it actally said. hat it was a aempt by the maor media to reai cotrol

o the teret ad to sest that less they're the oes who are p it ot

its reliable. hich thik yo see i a lot o stories. he maistream press

ladly promotes the idea that yo cat believe aythi yo read o the teret

its all kooks its all cospiracy theorists... d there are mea admit there are

a lot o them ot there bt its ot all alse. Bt the idea that were bei taht

is less its ot or ame o it yo cat believe it. o they ca retai cotrol o

the meas o commicao ayway.

Aience Member #11: Yo meoed ra-cotra which was private orei

policy i deace o Coress which meas it was a hih crime. rom there we

et more drs we et erosio o civil liberes ad the loss o the orth

medmet which yo meoed. d we have to et that back becase

withot it were st commodies to oe aother. o what d like to ask yo is

what are yo worki o ow d do yo have yor ow oralisc chai o

reaco re yo oi to be doi somethi that coects back to this

Gary Webb: he eso is what am doi ow -- believe it or ot m worki

or the overmet. [Lahter rom the adiece.] work or the Calioria

leislatre ad do ivesaos o state aecies. st wrote a piece or Esuire

maazie which shold be ot i pril o aother ablos DE proram that

theyre ri. ctally part o its based here i Oreo called Operao

ipelie. hat story is comi ot i pril ad Esuire told me they wat me to

write more stff or them they wat me to do some ivesave repor or

them so ll be worki or them. d m p toether aother book proposal

ad a cople o other this. m ot oi to work or ewspapers ay more

leared my lesso.

Aience Member #12: year ao the editor o yor ewspaper was here to

speak sposored by the iversity o Oreo chool o oralism. Beore ot p

here took a casal look arod -- dot kow all o the members o the

oralism aclty bt didt recoize ay. e did have a stdet here who ot

p ad asked a eso. hat leads to this eso d like i yo dot mid to

ask i there is someoe rom the iversity o Oreo oralism aclty here

wold they mid bei ackowleded ad raisi their had

Gary Webb: ll riht theres oe back there.

Aience Member #12: here is oe. Okay. [pplase rom the adiece.] m

pleased to see it. here is that oe perso. My poit is thik mch o what

yove said this evei costtes a idictmet -- ad a valid idictmet -- o


29/29

the iversity oralism prorams i this cotry. [pplase.] Most mericas

ad believe -- ad m iterested i yor reaco -- that it reiorces that

idictmet whe we see to that persos credit that she is the oly aclty

member rom or school o oralism to hear yo toiht.

Gary Webb: thik the eeral eso was abot the state o the oralism

schools. he oe thi oralism schools dot teach by ad lare is ivesave

repor. hey teach steoraphy very well. hats why cosider most o

oralism today to be steoraphy. Yo o to a press coerece yo write dow

the otes accrately yo come back yo dot provide ay cotext yo dot

provide ay perspecve becase that ets ito aalysis ad heaves kows we

dot wat ay analysis i or ewspapers.

Bt yo report this accrately yo report this airly ad eve i its a lie yo

pt it i the ewspaper ad thats cosidered oralism. dot cosider that

oralism cosider that steoraphy. d that is the way they teach oralism

i school thats the way was taht. less yo o to a very differet oralism

school rom the kids that most kids o to thats what yore taht. Now there

are specialized oralism schools there are masters prorams like the Kiplier

roram at Ohio tate thats very ood.

o m ot sayi that all oralism schools are bad bt they dot teach yo to

be oralists. hey discorae yo rom doi that by ad lare. d dot thik

its the alt o the oralism proessors st thik thats the way this have

bee taht i this cotry or so lo that they st do it atomacally. d be

iterested i heari the proessors thohts abot it bt thats sort o the way

look at this. spet way too may years i oralism school. kid o ot shed

o those oos aer ot ot i the real world.

En o transcript.

Transcript: Gary Webb Speaks on CIA Connections to Contra Drug Trafficking Jan 1999

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Transcript of Transcript: Gary Webb Speaks on CIA Connections to Contra Drug Trafficking Jan 1999