The Tim Ferriss ShowTerry Crews — How to Have, Do, and Be All You WantTim @ 5:10:Boys and girls, ladies and gents, this is Tim Ferriss and thank you for joining me once again. Asalways, it is my job to deconstruct world-class performers from every field imaginable, to tease out thehabits, routines and so on that you can use. This episode is a very special one, it was such a treatand you will realize why once we get into it. It was recorded live at the Aratani Theater in Los Angelesin front of a sold-out crowd. Thank you to everyone who came. This was for Live Talks LA, and theguest was from within the pages of Tribe of Mentors, Terry Crews.

You may have heard of Terry Crews before. Twitter, Instagram @TerryCrews; Facebook,@RealTerryCrews; Terrycrews.com. Terry Crews is an actor and former NFL player, Los AnglesRams, San Diego Chargers, Washington Redskins and Philadelphia Eagles. His wide-ranging creditsinclude the original viral Old Spice commercials, television series such as The Newsroom, ArrestedDevelopment, and Everybody Hates Chris, films including White Chicks, very underrated film, I thinkit’s fantastic, The Expendables, Franchise, Bridesmaids and The Longest Yard. He now stars on theGolden Globe award-winning Fox sitcom, Brooklyn 99.

In 2014, Terry released his autobio, Manhood, subtitled ‘how to be a better man or just live with one’.We start in some really unusual places in this conversation. It takes us a little bit of time to warm upas it very, very often does, but stick around because this conversation really, really delivered. WithTerry, you just have to give him the ball and let him run with it, and that applies metaphorically in somany different capacities. I really hope you enjoy this conversation. If you enjoy it even half as muchas I did, you will love it, it was that much fun.

I remember for hours afterwards, I went out to have wine and dinner with a few friends and I just said,“God. Man, Terry really, really hit a home run with this evening. He just killed it.” I think you get afeeling for why that’s the case. A lot of these stories you have never heard before, a lot of the tips, thetools, favorite books and so on, the elaborations, you have never heard before. Terry is a true original.Here we go, without further ado, please enjoy my conversation with Terry Crews.

[applause]

Terry @ 7:33:Wow. You all, what’s up?

[applause]

Man, it’s so good. How are you all doing? This is awesome. I love Tim Ferriss.

Tim @ 7:54:This has been so surreal for me. First greeting you, this is the first time we’ve met in person andclapping him on the trap and feeling like I was trying to move a steer. I realized you are, in fact, as bigas you look on television.

First and foremost, I really just wanted to thank you for, and I mentioned this backstage, but being sodeliberate and thoughtful in your responses because I do know how busy you are, and we’re going totalk about that schedule. You really took the time to put intention into your answers and people havejust gone berserk. It’s been a very powerful impact, so thank you for that.

Terry @ 8:37:Thank you.

[applause]

Tim @ 8:39:I thought we’d start somewhere that perhaps people wouldn’t associate you with, if that’s evenEnglish, but you guys get my drift, and that is art. I went onto your Instagram profile, not too long ago,and I saw a number of different profiles. Then I started digging, and I didn’t want to tease out toomuch because I wanted to talk about it. Could you tell us a little bit about your background with art?

Terry @ 9:08:Wow. First of all, I grew up in Flint, Michigan, very popular place right now. [laughs] I drank the water, Idid. I’m a little crazy. The deal was, is that I’ve always been left handed, right brained and very visualabout everything in my life. I remember it was a – I have a older and a younger sister. When mybrother was off to school, I was about four, five years old, I hadn’t gone to kindergarten yet. I used tojust sit and draw all day long.

It was something where I remember being inside of a painting or a picture, or a drawing and timewould stop. I would be there for almost – I remember starting a drawing or whatever and it would turninto night, it would be eight hours that have gone by and it felt like, literally, 20 minutes.

I got better and better. But this is the deal too, is that I was always, always disappointed as an artistbecause it never looked the way I wanted it to look. So every drawing, every painting became thiseffort to make what was in my head match what was on the paper. I’m still doing that. In regards toperformances, in regards to drawing, in regards to my furniture, in regards to all the things that I’veever tried to do, it’s still not as good as it is in my head.

That’s crazy. It is this weird, but I think my whole life has been trying to match up with this thing andthis vision that I have in my head. I don’t think I’d ever get there, but it’s fun to try.

Tim @ 11:10:I want to dig into a few details of this, because you’re a very understated guy. You used to paintportraits of football players as a means of making money, not only that, you had an art scholarshipbefore you had a football scholarship. Is that right?

Terry @ 11:31:That’s right.

Tim @ 11:32:So this isn’t just me as a professional courtesy trying to paint wholistic picture of somebody biggerthan what you see on screen. This guy is a real artist. Speaking of someone, that I want to be apenciller for about 15 years. So throughout college and everything else, an illustrator trying to paysome of the bills, I was a very, very bad bouncer, I’m not built for it, and I suppose a mediocreillustrator, but I really, really appreciate that. How did art serve you through these 17 to 20 lives thatyou seem to have led?

Terry @ 12:05:Man, you’ve got to know. Growing up in Flint, there were a number of obstacles, crazy, crazyobstacles because I grew up at the height of the crack epidemic and also the demise of the autoindustry. There were two things happening at once. They were both horribly bad. Probably late ’70s all

the way through the ’80s and to the ’90s was literally The Walking Dead. It was real. You had peoplewho were cracked out. I had friends, family who one day were a good people. The next day, they werestealing everything you had. All the way to everyone you knew were losing their jobs. It was a panic.

I remember there were two ways out. One was through music and performing. Another way wasathletics, but you couldn’t get paid doing art. [laughs] You know what I mean? It was kind ofeverybody, “That’s a wonderful picture,” but you’re a starving artist, that’s the whole term. I rememberjust saying, “Okay, I’m going to do this art thing, but I had to do the football thing too.” These are myways out.

Now, I didn’t believe that I was actually going to get any life as an artist, but I had one teacher, oneman, Mr. Eickelberg. I’ll never forget this. He was like, He said, “Terry, you are an amazing artist.” Hewas like, “I’m the art teacher. You’re better than me.” He said, “You can go somewhere with this.” I waslike, “Okay, but nobody’s going to pay me to do this. Nobody. It’s good but I’ve got to use football.” Hefilled out all the applications for me. I didn’t even know. This is crazy. He took my pictures and mypaintings and everything that I did. He took them, he got them photographed, did all these stuff, sentthem to Interlochen Arts Academy. Interlochen is this world-famous -

Tim @ 14:21:Big deal.

Terry @ 14:22:Big, big deal arts camp up in northern Michigan near Traverse City. You study with people from allover the world. He literally came to me and told me he’d already filled out everything and he said,“Terry, you have a scholarship from Chrysler for a right to go to Interlochen Arts Academy.” I was like,“What are you talking about?”

First of all, I didn’t think it was possible. This is the deal. There’s a lot of things – It’s weird becauseyou’ve got to let people believe in you, but I didn’t believe in myself. When I got a chance to go toInterlochen and study with people from Europe and from Brazil, and this was mainly music studentsand they didn’t have art students, it was just this, like – Coming from Flint, coming from the hood.

And then – This changed my life. Once I remember we had – and it was really big on competition,very, very big on competition. It was like, if you were a violinist, you had to be the first chair andsecond chair. I remember all these kids were disappointed because they kept moving down and theywould just feel like they were crushed.

The same thing with art, they gave us two paint – We had to do two drawings. We had the wholeclass doing these drawings, they said, “Put your drawings on the wall and don’t put your name onthem. We have this guy coming from the Cleveland Institute of Art, he’s going to judge each painting.We want to see who’s the best.” I was like, “Oh, man.” And so, I did my deal and I put all – It was awall full of art, and the art guy pointed at mine and he said, “That one’s the best one.” Then he wentall the way across the room and he said, “That one.” And they were both mine.

[applause]

I was like, “Now, life is a confidence game.” Because then, you couldn’t tell me nothing. [laughs] I waslike, “Damn it, I’m good.” I got too arrogant and then I got arrogant. “I’m the best one here.” And thenyou have to be humble some other way. That let me know, I was like, “Wow. I can do it, I can do it. I’mreally as good as these people – this is all over the world.” Then I got a scholarship to WesternMichigan University in art, but it was small, it wasn’t full ride, but it was a small deal. I got an artscholarship and walked on to the football team.

My mom passed away about almost three years ago, and she always would tell me, she was like,“Whatever you do – I know you’re doing all this football stuff, you’re doing all these other things, butnever forget, you’re an artist babe, you’re an artist.” [sobbing] I’m telling you, when I see what I’mdoing right now, I get to do so many things that so many people never got to see. I get to go so manyplaces and do so many things that none of the people who wanted to were able to. I feel like there is aresponsibility, but also if I don’t do it, everything they’ve gone through is nothing.

The way I approached things is really, it’s kind of, for everyone else. I have to try it, I have to go for it. Iknew, even as I was doing football and I was doing all this stuff, I remember once – Because footballwas hard. Football was a very, very, again, another competitive deal. You would get on the team, andthen I would get cut. I was like, “I have to depend on this art thing because this is what got me here.”And so, I would go back in the locker room, and this is – I was married, I had two kids at the time. Iwould go back in the locker room and go to the players and I would ask them if they wanted theirportraits painted.

[laughter]

The weird thing is, they were like, “Oh, come on man. You can’t it.” I would show them my portfolioand they were like, “Damn, dude. All right.” And I was like, “Look, man. I want to paint you over this big– I’m going to put you and you can be a giant over the city, and you can have wings.”

[laughter]

And let me tell you, football players are the most egotistical people in the world, they were like, “Ohdamn. Yes, man I want the wings. How much for them wings, man?” And I was like, “Oh, yes.” I woulddo these masterpieces.

I have to tell you this too, I did have a scam. I had a scam. This is a scam in college. What happenedis, I was playing football but when you play football, you don’t get money for supplies, you only getbook loans. See, scholarship is a jip, I’m telling you, the NCAA is a jip, dude, the whole deal. You arenot a student-athlete, you are semi-pro. That’s all it is, there’s no student in it. I’m just putting it rightdown. What was crazy is that I was like, “Hey, but I wanted to study art.” They were like, “Why don’tyou just study business or something so it’s easier to get by.” Because the whole thing is just gettingby, take a class so you can go to football practice. I was like, “I’m an artist.” They were like, “Okay,whatever.”

I will go to these labs and I would make. This is what I had it planned. In the summer, I would makeprobably 10 paintings and then I would make four of them really suck, they would be really, really bad.I’ll bring those in the beginning of each these labs and I’ll go to the teacher. I was like, “Man, what’swrong with this?”

[laughter]

“Help me out here.” He was, “Oh Terry, oh my God. Look, okay we’re going to work on yourperspective and we’re going to do this.” I was like, “Yes, I know. Help me.” Then I’d go home and then Igo to practice for a month and never do anything else because I had the paintings done, then I’d bringanother one in that was a little bit better.

[laughter]

Let me tell you, I did this the whole semester and then I would bring out the masterpieces.

[laughter]

Later I’d say, “Look how much you helped me.”

[laughter] [applause]

“You took me from here to there, sir.” He was like, “You get an A. You are awesome.” Again, the wholething was a scam, but I had to survive. I had to find a way to stay in school because this is the thing, alot of people don’t know is that they could take your scholarship. It was crazy. It was one of thosethings where you are there as a body and if you don’t perform, they’ll find a way to get rid of you. Soupset, I’m out. That’s a whole another subject.

[laughter]

Tim @ 21:34:You mentioned surviving. You strike me as a really well-adapted survivor. You’ve been through a lot.You’ve experienced a lot in your life. You mentioned very briefly backstage and I said, “No, I want totalk about this in front of everybody,” a vow that you and was it your brother or your friend made?

Terry @ 21:56:Say that again.

Tim @ 21:57:A vow that you made. Could you explain that? Give the story of that from your childhood.

Terry @ 22:03:Well, first of all, this is the deal, I love to de-mystify. When I was a kid, no one would tell us anything.Anything. You got to think, growing up in Flint, Michigan which is a factory town, it’s literally crabs in abucket. I said this before but people will say, “You know, you can do anything you want to do, TerryCrews. You can do it. You tell them what you want to do.”… “What the hell makes you think you can dothat?”

[laughter]

Later, “Man, you’d just said we could do anything we want to do. You just said that.” And I will callthem on it but it was wild is because again, at a factory town, everybody drove the same car. You hadthe same house. Everything were the same. You went the same stores. There was this one placecalled Myers 50 Acres everybody would go. You will find all the same food. It was the same clothing.Everything was the same. I didn’t want any of it.

I remember just asking people, “How do you get from here to there? What’s the secret to this? What’s….” “One you’re going to find out. You’ve just got to tough it out.” “Come on, man.”

“I’m nine, all right?” I didn’t want – What I did, me and my best friend made a vow. We made a vowthat, “Whatever you learn something that I don’t know, you are going to have to tell me. If I learnsomething you don’t know, I promise to tell you.” This is how I got through my whole teenage years.Let me tell you, my father was a drunk, he was abusive. My earliest memory is him hitting my motherin the face as hard as he could and her to get knocked out. I knew for a long time that I had to dosomething to get out. What that does to a five-year-old child is that you realize, “First of all, he says heloves her. He just knocked her out, so what he’s going to do to me?” I remember trying to be very,

very strong as a young kid. I remember I would lift up couches, make muscles. The whole thing was Iwas obsessed with becoming strong. What was wild is that right along with that, you had to be smartbecause this is another thing that’s crazy.

In masculinity, we always say, “Hey man, we never negotiate with a terrorist. Never.” but if you talk to areal negotiator, you always negotiate with a terrorist. Now stop. First of all, I had to negotiate with myfather. When he got mad, I was like, “Hey man, you want another beer? What do you need?” and thenI’ll turn on the TV. “Okay… Okay, everybody be quiet. Everybody be quiet because he’s here.” I spentall my young days negotiating with that. Then you go outside, you got the drug dealer, you got thebully, you got the gang member.

I was like, “Hey man.” I walk on this side of the street, other side of the street. Are we cool? Okay. Youdidn’t want me to go over there? All right. Cool. All right. I didn’t talk to you girl. I didn’t talk to yoursister. I didn’t. I didn’t. Dude, so you negotiating now? All right, go to football. That world and you’renegotiating with coaches. I had a coach who was like, “Hey man. I like Tyrone.” This is a white guy.“I’m going to call you Tyrone.” I said, “My name is Terry coach.” He said, “I like Tyrone. Your name isTyrone.” He called me freaking Tyrone. Do you know how abusive that is? How demeaning that is, butI had to negotiate with this guy, because he had my dream in his hand.

I was like, “What am I going to do? Okay, this is my way to make money. This is my way out of Flint.This is my way out of doing whatever I got to do.” You’re Tyrone. Okay. I will be Tyrone right now.That’s what I have to do. It’s so wild because you realize this negotiation thing keeps playing and itplays out in different ways. You know what I mean? I’m going to have to bring it up because I want tobring up what’s happening in Hollywood right now. Because you have a lot of people who arenegotiating with terrorists. You’re negotiating with people who are holding your dreams in their hands.It’s kind of wild because I’ve been through all this. I mean all the way from my dad. All the way up toHollywood. You spend 20 years building this career and freaking have to negotiate with a terrorist formy own dream.

I’m sitting here like, “Wait a minute, man. I don’t have to put up with that. I don’t have to do this. I don’thave to put up with it.” It’s kind of wild because you have to get to a point in every job and everythingwhen you just had enough. There was times in the hood when I said I had enough and I fought back.There was a time with my dad I said I had enough and I beat his ass. There was a time now when I’vehad enough with this shit and I said, “No more. No more. This, I’m not going for.” It’s wild because yougive people a shot. You give people a shot. You give people a chance to make things right. To say,“Hey man you’re not doing me right.” This is the deal. I’ve learned too – I’m sorry. I know there’sprobably some questions, but I’m going all.

Tim @ 27:55:I’m tired of hearing myself talk. No no.

Terry @ 27:57:My wife said, “He damn near interviews himself.” That’s the deal.

[laughter]

That’s why she’s not here tonight.

Tim @ 28:03:That’s the lazy man’s interview.

Terry @ 28:05:

[laughs] I know.

Tim @ 28:07:The monologue. Lazy man interview.

Terry @ 28:09:Damn it. Damn it. I hate it. I’ve got so much to say. I’m sorry. It’s just trying to get it off my chest, man.I’m getting it off my chest. First of all, it’s so wild because once you reach certain spots and you haveto negotiate with these guys long enough to get what you need, to get what you have to have andthen you can move on. When I look at what art has done for me – Right now I have a furniturecollection. Bernhardt gave me a collection of furniture. I segwayed into that. I still do art, I still paintand I still draw. I plan on literally having art shows… Later in my life, just really becoming full pledgedwith painting and drawing and the whole thing. One thing is that, it’s really been something that noone can take from me.

It’s something that I can do, all on my own. I don’t care. You don’t have to like it. If I like it, it’s okay. It’sbecome one of the things that in my life, that’s what art is. It’s literally subjective. It’s what you want tosee. Again, it’s all about can I get this vision that it’s in my head on this piece of paper? Now, it’salmost like my life has turned into art. I want the vision of who I am and who I want to be out in reallife. I like to call myself a motivational doer. I hate talking so much. I’m a big talker, as you can tell, butthe big thing is, I want to back everything up with action. I want to be an action figure. Always, alwaysback it up with movement. Don’t talk about working out. You can do that all day, but do it.

That was the big, big distinction I’ve seen especially growing up in the hood so many people, “Man,I’m gonna do this and I’m gonna do that,” And men, I said, “Man, why haven’t you? Why aren’t you?”Everything you see me doing, I just said I’m going, I’m trying, I’m going for it, I don’t care, and we’llsee what happens. Okay, questions.

Tim @ 30:33:All right.

[applause] [laughter]

Terry Crews.

Terry @ 30:37:I think the time is up.

Tim @ 30:40:We’ll be here all week.

Terry @ 30:42:I know.

Tim @ 30:44:All right, I have two questions related to everything you just said. It’s going to take 10 minutes for meto get him out. The first one is related to how you responded to all of those challenges, you had anabusive father, you have an abusive coach you’ve all these various challenges, and there a lot ofpeople who I suspect and I know some of them who respond to those environmental factors bybecoming bitter, and not doing. Where did you develop your optimism or that ability to be proactive,because a lot of people just opt out, they feel like the deck is stacked against them, and they choose

not to even attempt.

Terry @ 31:28:This is real man. I learned it from my wife. For me – listen, I’ve been a part of the supermasculine, thetoxic masculine world for so long, and I had a come to Jesus meeting, so to speak. Literallyeverything was ending. I was a narcissist totally, still I’m a little bit, definitely, but I’m working on it.

Tim @ 32:01:How old are you just to -

Terry @ 32:02:I would say it’s an ongoing process. I would say over the last 17 years, literally from 17 years ago tonow, it was like whoo, especially after football. Once football ended and the entertainment thing kindof happened I started – I had to learn you can’t fight your way out of things. You have to think yourway out of things, and I noticed how my wife behaved, and I noticed how – actually how womenbehave. Because women have to think their way out of all kinds of situations, whereas guys we canmuscle our way through, and do our stuff and whatever. But I realized that that was not getting meanywhere, and my wife really taught me that vulnerability is not weakness, that I had to be vulnerable,but I had to be authentic at the same time, and she would always, always talk to me and tell me that,“Terry, you have to” – and she would always tell me the truth. There’s nothing more vulnerable thansomebody whose going to speak the truth into your life, and she would constantly tell me, “This iswrong. The way you’re acting right now is awful”, and I’m just like, “What? I’m like all these otherguys”, because that’s what guys do, you compare yourself to all the other guys.

And you say, “Compared to them, I”m good, right?” She’s like, “I’m done.” I’ll never forget the first timeI had a big job, I remember I got a big movie or whatever and I remember I was walking around thisparty, and I had a cigar and I was walking around, and I was – man, I had the swag, I had the allthings, she was like, “Okay, you can stay over there, I’m going to be over here”, and I was like, “Whatare you talking about? What? I’m winning, I’m winning.” She was like, “No baby, uh, uh. No, no.” I waslike, “Whoo.” And I realized, just in those little ways, I was losing her.

I had to put the cigar down, come back over there, and she said, “Now, that’s my Terry.” I was like, “Ohwow.” Then I had to be the same way with my kids. I have two grown kids, actually three now. Myoldest daughter is 30, I have another one is 27, and they were the football kids who went through thewhole toxic masculine phase, I have to tell you, I tell the kids all the time, those two, I’m like, “Look,you want cash, credit, whatever, you get it because I messed you all up really bad.”

[laughter]

“I did. I messed you up bad.” I’m like, “I’m so sorry.” I constantly apologize, constantly trying to makeamends because I was too tough, I was too hard, I was way – Now, they look at the other ones, andthey look, “You treat them so good.” I’m like, “I know. I’m so sorry. What can I say?” But again, my wifehas been the example for me, and I remember when I had one of the biggest fights that I ever had inmy life, was an addiction to pornography, and I put it in my book, but the whole thing was, once Irealized that I, Terry Crews, thought that I was more valuable than my wife and kids simply because Iwas a man, and that allowed the pornography to exist in my life. Because they were objects.

Let me tell you man, I’ll never forget my wife was like, “I’m done. I’m out. I’ve had enough.” In the first Iwas like, “Okay go. Bye. I’ll just find another girl, it’ll be all good.”, and all of a sudden, there was a littlevoice and it said, “Maybe it’s me.” I was like, “No, it couldn’t be me. It couldn’t be.” I’m like, “Come on.She’s not understanding.” Everything was looking out like this. Everything was blaming everybodyelse for what I was going through.

That voice came back again, it’s like a cracked egg. Once that egg cracks, you can’t close it up, youcan’t seal it again. I was like, “It is me. It is me.” Let me tell you, it was like one day thinking that thesun revolves around the earth and then somebody going no, no, no, no, no, no, we go around the sun,dude. I was like, oh shit. It’s a whole another deal and I went to rehab. This is another thing in blackculture, you don’t get therapy. It’s viewed as very, very weak. You’re a punk, you’re sorry. I brokethrough all of that. That’s when it all started for me. Then the next goal was to start talking, becauseeven now, right now, this right here is therapy for me. It’s therapy. Talking about things, sharing myheart. It helps me to line up what’s right in my life.

I have to give this man props too. I remember when I told you about looking for the answers andlooking for the question, getting questions and trying to find the answers, I would go to these booksbecause it was all about finding answers, asking questions, questions, question. I still have a thing onmy social media called the hard questions, where I just ask questions. If we can’t ask questions, we’redoomed, we’re doomed. Okay, I’m done.

[laughter]

I can’t stop talking.

Tim @ 37:51:When I was looking at your history and your book and your backstory, one thing that I paid attention…there was a pattern– an uncommon degree of self reflection. I want to rewind the clock a little bit backto high school. One of stories that you put in Tribe of Mentors is related to my question, related tofavorite failures or a failure that set you up for later success. Could you tell us a little bit about thatplease?

Terry @ 38:25:Yes. 1986, that was my senior year in high school. I went to Flint Academy, it was a classy school butwe were highly ranked in the state. I used to be a basketball player, that’s hard to believe now.Basketball, it was a big sport for me, but I was the starting center on this team. What was wild is wewere picked to go all the way in the state. We had a superstar on our team and we had a really, reallygood team. We played against the school who decided not to play with the district championship. Itwas right the beginning of a playoff and these guys would take the ball down the court and pass theball to each other at the top of the court and wouldn’t play.

We had a coach who was like, “You know what, I’m going to beat you at your own game.”, so westayed in the zone. We sitting there the whole time and it is the most boring game of all time. We justsat there with our hands up and they passed the ball, and if anything happens, somebody went andgot it. You scored two. It was just a mess. So the score was really, really low. They were up 47 to 45. Itwas literally under a minute. I’m freaking out because now is evident we’re going to lose. I’m going,“Man, this is a dumb like defense of strategy.”

Anyway, we should’ve been going after it, but what happened is a guy threw the ball, their guy threwthe ball crosscourt. I intercepted it and that would literally 5 seconds left to go.

I take the ball all the way down the court. You’ve got to understand, I had visions of, “Oh my God. Thisis the day. I’m the hero.” My heart is pounding. I’m already at the party. I go with this lay up, and Ibring it up there, and I totally, it gets around the rim and it rolls off. Let me tell you, that place goesnuts because it was the upset of the year. I collapse in a heap. I know my life is over. This is anotherthing, shame among men. It’s like, “Oh, how could you do that?” Other players were yelling at me, thecoach. I was in the locker room, he was like, “You had no business taking that shot.”

I stole a ball. We didn’t have a shot anyway. He was like, “You had no business taking that shot. Youshould have passed it. Man, it’s your fault.” Everybody in the room was like, “Yes.” They didn’t let meoff. I remember just going, “Oh my god.” I went in the paper and the paper the next day was like,“Terry Crews had a shot and he missed.” It was the most dark – When you’re 16 years old, I was –beyond cries. One guy was taunting me. I got into a fight after the school and the whole thing and Iwas just like, “This is horrible.” It was a couple of days went by and I was in the deepest funk.

I’m sitting on my bed and I shared my room with my brother, but for some reason, he wasn’t therebecause I always remember being there. It was great. I don’t ever remember being alone except thattime. I remember being alone and just thinking about, “I should’ve passed it. I should’ve passed it.Maybe I messed up. What else could I have done?” Then another little voice, it said, “I took the shot. Itook the shot.” I was saying, “I did. I did.” I kept thinking, I was like, “Man, look, when you had thechance, when everything was on the line, you took your shot, man. You did that. You did that. All of asudden I was like, “That’s right. That’s right. I took it.” I learned from then on.

I said, “Wait a minute. If I win or if I fail, is going to be on my terms. It’s going to be up to me. If I havethe opportunity, I have to go for it.” Then I felt really good about losing the game. You can call it re-framing. A lot of people have scientific ways or psychological ways to do things, but I learned alwaysto re-frame things so that it’s to your advantage. You look at these things like, “Wait a minute, you tookthe shot man.” This is another thing because what’s so crazy is that no one ever remembers thatgame. It is one of the least important things in my life, but the lesson I learned is still guiding metoday.

The fact that, go for it, take your shot, take your time. When you get that thing, you have theopportunity, don’t mess it up. This is another thing, and I want to tell you, Tim, the scariest thoughtever is one thing that blew me away, is that, you really do get what you want. Let me tell you what Imean, there have been times when you can be self-destructive. You think it’s something else. Idiscovered for a long time, if I show up late or something twice, I don’t want it. You get what youdesire. Everything about you, you get what you want. Now, the way your life is truthfully the way youwant it.

That’s hard, that’s hard to say because other people are like, “No way, there’s so many other thingsout there. There’s this and this and this and this.” The truth is, is that if you wanted somethingdifferent, you change it. That hit me. It’s scary because if I failed or if I showed up wrong or messedup on something, I was like, “I didn’t really do what it took to get it.”

Again, that comes from taking that shot way back in high school, but now I realize, okay, get rid of any,what I call, self-sabotage and you can achieve whatever you need.

Tim @ 45:30:This is such a pattern that I’ve seen across interviews that I’ve done… We talked about Jamie Foxxbackstage. But it goes all the way across the spectrum, say Debbie Millman, who’s a well knowngraphic designer and she realized at one point and then made her matra at one point, “Busy is adecision.” You can’t… you’re disallowed from complaining, responding to someone when they say,“How are you?” with the complaint that you are busy because that’s a consequence of your decisions.

When did it, for you, books enter the picture as a force that begin to mold you or guide you? Do youremember? Because there were, for instance, there’s a book that you mentioned when I asked in thebook about those books you’ve gifted most to other people. The Master Key System.

Terry @ 46:17:The Master Key System, okay.

Tim @ 46:19:All right. That’s one example, but I’d love to hear you talk about that certainly. So maybe we can startwith that. When did that show up for you?

Terry @ 46:25:Wow. Again, I’m a self-help book nut. I therapize all the time, I have audio books going nonstop, and Ihave been doing that for almost 25 years, literally. I probably read everything. That is why I’m a big fanof yours. But -

Tim @ 46:44:You’re like there are only these Tim Ferriss books left. Damn it. Have been avoiding this guy formonths.

Terry @ 46:53:But when I got this book called The Master Key System and what was wild to me, it broke down somethings in ways that I could understand because you hear certain things but you have to hear things ina different way so that you can grasp it. One of the concepts in the book is that in order to have, youhave to do. In order to do, you have to be. I sat and I would contemplate this thing a lot. I was like,“What does this mean?” What does this mean? It sounded like jibberish, it sounded a little bit likewhat is is, what was will be, that kind of stuff. What will be was, what will be again. I’m like, “Okay.” Butonce you really examined it, is that, and I’ll bring fitness into this.

Tim @ 47:49:Yes please.

Terry @ 47:50:With fitness, you are fit before your body ever gets in shape. You have to be fitness. Every personwho lost 200 pounds can tell you the moment way back then when they knew they were going to betheir ideal weight. That’s the moment it was big. “It was my ideal way, I’m going to be that.” Then yourbody just goes right into it. I heard a great quote the other day like follow your heart and your body willcatch up. I think that that’s the way it is with everything. The Master Key System book broke it downwhere I had to say I always had a dream that one day I may have money, one day and I say, “Wait aminute. I’m rich. I’m rich now.”

This is the thing, I didn’t have a penny. But when you do things and you say, “Okay, now that I’m rich,what would a rich man do?”

Tim @ 48:56:This is really important.

Terry @ 48:59:You see? What would a rich man do? I started doing things that rich people did, and once I did it, Ihad it. How to be. I was like, “Oh, my God, this works” I studied. I bought 20 copies. I handed it out toeverybody. Every family member, they were like, “Come on, what is it? Thank you, Merry Christmas.All right, I want some money.”

But it was so funny because I was like, “Guys, you’ve got to understand this. You are what you arenow. There is only now. This is all you have.” It’s like if someone, I had to break ti down where if you

were trying to get to LA and you didn’t know you were already here, you just keep walking, you keepgoing. You’d be all over the place until finally you realize, wait a minute, I’m here. But that’s the wayfitness, success, any goal, any aspiration, you must be it now.

That book… That thing you want to accomplish, you have to be it now. You are an author. Now whatdo authors do? Authors write. When authors write, they have a book. I’m telling you, it sounds really,really, really simple, but once you get it, forever you will never think of anything the same way again.

Tim @ 50:38:This is a something I want to underscore, and I give a close cousin example that’s really helped meout. For instance, historically I’ve been really impatient, and for a while, that aggression andimpatience was an aid and a help in certain places, but it very quickly in excess became a hugehandicap and a big problem. I would surround myself with people who were more patient, moretempered, calmer, like one friend of mine named Matt Mullenweg. He’s a technologist, incredible guy.I started asking myself when I was going into situations that I thought might trigger me, whatwould Matt Mullenweg do.

How would Matt respond to this email before I freak out and start throwing hay makers and have to doclean up for a week, but that’s an example. If I were Matt right now in this instance, even though Ihaven’t magically turned to Matt, but if I were and I acted like him, what I do and I started makingbetter decisions, then lone behold over time started to then develop those characteristics. I think it’s areally important point you’re making.

There’s another question that I’ve been dying to ask you, and it relates to a juxtaposition that I hopeyou can explain the subtleties of a little bit. You are and have been called the hardest working man inHollywood. That sounds like a cliche, but you have so many different projects and have lived so manydifferent lives. You’re incredibly productive. Going along with that, when I asked you, and this was oneof my favorite parts of what you wrote, bad recommendations you hear in your profession or area ofexpertise and the quote was, “Work hard to beat the competition.” This is what you said which actuallyis very close to what people like Peter Thiel and other people say, it’s very, very similar, “The truth isthat competition is the opposite of creativity. If I’m working hard to beat the competition, it actuallyprevents me from thinking creatively to make all concepts of competition obsolete.”

I’d love you to expand on that or give any examples of how that has helped you in your career, inentertainment, because a lot of people, for instance, like out of the NFL, they don’t make the transitionto other things well at all. Could you expand on that?

Terry @ 53:04:Wow. Everything that I decided I wanted to do in life was very competitive. I mean sports,entertainment, it’s always been about – It’s funny because this whole thing is a dog eat dog world, butdogs don’t eat other dogs.

[laughter]

They don’t. Have you ever seen a dog eat another dog? I’ve never seen it. It doesn’t happen. I waslike, wait a minute, you’ve got to start questioning yourself. We take that like,” Yeah, man. We got tofight to do that.” What happened was, I bought in. I bought in. This is how I know it doesn’t work. Ibought in. I was hooked line and sinker about being competitive. I was all to beat everybody. I wouldlook at people, I will look at you and smile and want to destroy you.

[laughter]

That was my whole m.o. and I became a very fake person, very duplicitous, very sly, very cunning,very clever, but there were no real substance because it was all about beating the other person. TheNFL teaches you. It was a while that you have players that are on the same team and they will playone against the other and they would plant things in your head and say you’re a little old or you’re tooyoung, you don’t know what’s going on.

I’ll never forget one guy who’s an older player, I was like, I said, “What we do on cover two?”, he waslike, “Go left. Go left.” I went left and they were like, Terry, what are you doing?” I looked over at him,he was like [clears throat], and I knew he set me up. I said, “Wow. This competitive shit is hard.” Thenit was about, it’s literally scorched earth. What happens is when you compete, you’re just trying tobeat you, this guy next to me, this guy, we are on top, I’m trying to be the best. All of a sudden, youfocus all your attention on beating that guy.

But, when you’re running, you really can’t look at the other guy and really run an effective race. It’slike, life is a race and the whole thing so you say, “Okay, I’m going just look straight ahead”. But life isnot a race, it’s not even a race, it’s a marathon. Then you realize it’s not even a marathon, it’s a trailrun. What’s crazy is that there people who are out here running on this track to beat each other.

When all the gold and everything you are supposed to get, is way over here on this mountain and youjust walk over and get it, that is creativity. In creativity there is no running, you just do you. The ideayou have – I am going to give you a great example. When I was approached to do a furniture line forBernhardt, I didn’t know what I was doing, I had no clue. But I did, I did know this, do not compete.Don’t try to beat whatever is out there already. I created this whole thing.

I was sitting in my room, I have an office and I was sitting in this office. I was thinking like, man, whatwould happen if Egypt was a culture that existed today? What would furniture look like in Egypt? ThenI just started drawing, I just started creating and I started making. Let me tell you, it went for days anddays. I came with so much stuff because I wasn’t thinking about anything. I threw away the book. Iwas like just – what would I do? Let me tell you, when I got done, I created this thing called theLilypad, it was funny, the chairman of the company said, “Terry, no one has ever created anything likethis before.”

I was like, “Yo, come on.” I really thought he was joking with me. Then I had all these other designerscommenting. They said this Lilypad thing. It’s a chair on a table, combined. No one has ever donethat. You’re kidding me, right? Let me tell you something, I literally did Fallon just the other day. Wewere doing interviews on Jimmy Fallon in my Lilypad chair. He was like, no one did this. It’s winningawards, it’s just doing all the stuff and I’m sitting here flipping out because the creativity is where is at.If I’d even tried to do a better chair than you, it would have looked like a chair. It would have beensomething that everybody has done. But maybe a little tweak over here, a little tweak aware there.

But when you are creative, it takes you to a whole another place. There are musicians, artists,businessmen, who have decided, wait a minute. Because you’re looking what Steve’s job has done. Ifhe tried to make better records, he would have never come up with MP3, and never come up withiPod. It’s like, you have to be so far in your own self. This is the greatest thing, is that there is no oneelse is like you. There were never ever be, the world will never ever see another you, ever. No one willeven have the temper of your voice. That’s what’s so crazy. And no one can ever do anything like you.

Everything you really want to do is original, that’s just the truth. And once I was able to see that andknow and also it’s a confidence game. Because you have to know that your viewpoint is just as viable.For one, I have to say, sometime as a woman or sometime as a person of color or where you’re fromand where you got, you feel like, I don’t measure up. You feel like, they’re not going to see me. I had tofight that, I had to fight all that. I am creative, I’m not competing with you. In another comparison, I like

to say Is Fifth Avenue. You go to Fifth Avenue, if Gucci was every store in Fifth Avenue and Gucciwon, Gucci won Fifth Avenue, no one would go.

You need the success of Gucci, Parada, Bottega Veneta, Louis Vuitton, for your thing to besuccessful. You need other successful restaurants because some night, they’re not going to feel likethat. They want yours. But if everybody ate the same thing, we would all hate it. This is why now, andas an actor, I used to get very, very jealous. You see a billboard of something you auditioned for,you’re like, “Man, I hate that dude. He is not that good.” [laughter] Wait. Now, let me tell you, once Igot it, I look at the Billboard and I say, “Man, his success is my success, because the bigger he gets,the more opportunities for me.” That’s the truth. That’s not even mambo-jumbo, it’s not a joke. Ifeveryone here is successful, it makes you more successful. Once I knew that and realized it, therewas no going back.

Tim @ 1:00:38:Terry Crews, category of one. It’s easier to create a new category than to compete.

[applause]

Terry @ 1:00:42:[laughs] That’s it.

Tim @ 1:00:45:I love it. I want to ask one or two more questions and then we’ll go to audience Q&A. But what I’dlove to know is, as a father, you have five kids, is that right? Also a grandfather with better skin thanTim Ferriss. I need to learn your secrets of moisturizing, but didn’t have time to get to the gym. I’ll behitting you up later for those questions as well. But what advice would you give to a new parent orsomeone planning on having their first child? Father, mother or both.

Terry @ 1:01:17:First of all, it’s not that big a deal.

[laughter]

This is because you overdo it. You’re going to overdo it. Everything. It’s got to be the right schooland… Let me tell you something, my oldest daughter had a whole another life I didn’t know about. I’mnot kidding. I did it right. I am like, “Wait, what? What was that? You had a whole another what?” andyou go, “Okay.” All your preparation, all you have to do is never shame them, ever. Never shame them,and literally love them till they can’t stand it anymore. I’m telling you this because I’ve made thosemistakes.

I remember shaming my kids when – the thing is, shame is horrible because it tells you, you are bad.Guilt is good because you said you did something wrong. But shame. This is what I say when Imessed up my first two. It feels good to shame, you feel like, “Hey, I’m doing a good thing. You knowwhat? Shame on you. You should – how could you do something like that?” You say something likethat to your kids, it’s bad because then they’re internalizing it. What I also realized is that it’s not every– they’re going to be fine, but you spend so much extraneous energy and time trying to do things andfigure it all out for them when you have to let their consequences teach them.

Perfect example, this is a perfect example, I love this example. I have a TV at home, and what wouldhappen is, I would be gone and I would come home and I would find the kids had watched TV foreight hours. I would be like, “What are you doing? This is crazy. I left you were watching TV and I

come back, you’re still watching TV. This is nuts. When I turn it off, they were like, “Oh, hey you.” Itwas wild and I was like, “Man, I will turn it off.” What I did, I got this thing called a Bob. Bob is a littlebox you attach to your TV and it plugs in through the TV and every kid gets a code. You could set it fora half hour, hour, two hours, whatever.

I was like, “Okay, you kids are only going to watch TV for an hour.” I set it to one hour and the wholething and they come in with their code and I would leave, they’re watching TV and I come back, theyare sitting there like. I am like, “What? What happened?” They are like, “Bob.”

[laughter]

But see, this is the deal. I am like, “Did you watch your TV?” They go, “Yes.” I say, “Okay, well, you didgood” They go, “Okay.” But they weren’t mad at me. You understand what I mean? It wasn’t, “Dad didit.” *t was their consequences. They did what they were supposed to do, they played it all out and nowthey are feeling the effects of their consequences. They are feeling their own discipline as opposed tome always behind them, “Pick up your stuff!… Why aren’t you doing this? Why aren’t doing that?” Andall of a sudden the kids just are like, “He’s going to do it.”

Now, this is the great thing about being a grandparent. You are like, “They are going to be fine, dude.Send them home, bye bye.” But just don’t be that into it and let them feel their own consequences, it’sa beautiful thing, man, and it’s hard. I promise you, your first child is going to be hard.

Tim @ 1:05:00:One of the things I really appreciate about you and that led me to want to reach out to you is howforthcoming you’ve been about your difficulties and some of the challenges you faced, because I thinka lot of folks we see on magazine covers and so on unfortunately give people the impression thatthey’re flawless. They have it all figured out and then people feel uniquely flawed in some way, thatthey’re damaged because they’re not that person. That’s unachievable. Could you share with us astory of any dark period in your life and how you found your way out of it? Things that helped you tonavigate your way out of it.

Terry @ 1:05:41:I have a lot of dark times. You know what? I’m going to share this story which changed my life. First, Iliterally just got my first job in entertainment. I was on a TV show called Battle Dome where theyliterally put me in a cage and I fought my way out. It was so entertaining, but it was pre-MMA. Youknow I mean? People hadn’t seen blood on TV yet. We were the first. It was really nuts. People werebleeding, going to hospital, it was called real warriors, real pain and I played this character called T-money and that’s actually my wife’s pet name for me now. She’s like, “Hey, T-money”

We call this the Christmas from hell, because here I wanted to come home, I went home to Flint,Michigan with my family. Now, you’ve got to understand, my kids, at the time I had three. I have fivetotal now, but I had three kids at the time and the girls were, and they were all girls, they were verysmall. They had never grown up with violence in the house. They’d never seen it. I told my fatherbefore I came, I say, “Hey man, don’t act up. Do not act up” and he said, “I ain’t going do nothing” I amlike, “Okay, I’m bringing the family, I know it’s Christmas time, so just relax, man, and we’re going to beout of here. It will be fine.”

We get there, we are having a good time. My wife and I are going out. We actually are driving toDetroit to hang with friends, and I get this call. It was panic, my aunt called me, he said, “Terry, yourdaddy hit your mother in front of the kids. He got mad, he knocked her tooth sideways.” I am going, “Itold him, I told him.” Now, we literally, I stopped the car, we turn it around, I tell my wife, “Okay, we’regoing to go over my aunt’s house and you take the kids, go to aunt’s house, the whole thing. I’m done.

I’m dealing with this.”

First, I went in his house, he had the nerve to still be there. I said, “Dude, what are you doing?” Hewas like, “Shut up, leave me alone. I could do what the hell I want” Boom. Let me tell you something, Ibeat this guy for about an hour. He was pleading for his life. I was like, “I’m not a child anymore. I’m agrown ass man. How does it feel? You are about to get what my mother has felt.” I laid it on him. Hewas hurt, bleeding, laid out. I’m surprised I didn’t kill him. I felt not one ounce better. I rememberfalling on the ground crying in tears. It didn’t make me feel one bit better. Not one. Now I was justdown there with him.

I said, “This is the revenge I’ve dreamed about my whole life, and now nothing? Now I’m just likeyou?” I remember just feeling empty, cold, just, I don’t know what – it was the dark… it’s probably thedarkest place I’ve ever been because this is the man, it was the reason I’m here. I put him in hisplace, so to speak. I’ll never forget, it was just the most hollow, hollow feeling I’ve ever had. We gotout of there, it took me years to overcome that.

We got out of there, I got the kids out, we never came back. We were like we get the hell out of there,we are not doing this. But after years of therapy, and this was literally about six, no, six or seven yearsago. What I what I’m talking about happened like ‘99, okay? I go back and I say, I go back to my fatherand I have been listening to things and trying to do this thing correctly.

I remember, I just said I have to find one thing that I can tell him that he did good. I said – we call himBig Terry because his name is Terry too. I say, “Big Terry, man, I want to thank you because if it wasn’tfor you, I wouldn’t be here, and if I had to choose my parents, I’d choose you.” Because the truth is,he’s the reason I am here. If it was another person, I’d be another person. I said, “If I had to choosemy parents, I’d choose you.” Let me tell you something. He just broke down. He said, “Terry, I’m sorry.I’m sorry for beating your Mom, I’m sorry for everything I did.” Listen, man, I’ve never – those wordsbroke him down.

He cried in my arms for about the same time as I was beating him years earlier. I was like, “This is nothollow. This feels good. This is healing” I said, “Man, I have to use my strength for good becauseeverybody can knock somebody out, but to give a hug with muscles is a whole another matter.” I said,“That is how, that’s the vulnerability, that’s the authenticity. That’s where real healing takes placebecause shame wants punishment. It just wants to get back, boom boom, and it’s temporary. But guiltdevelops discipline when you admit I was wrong, because shame is when secrets and you don’t sayanything, but guilt says, “I did it. I’m sorry”

Then you develop the discipline to change. Man, that again, it was one of the darkest periods in mylife, but totally reversed and I decided that’s going to be my life. This is who I am. Some people gottheir ass whooped, I’m trying to say in between that though. I am trying to tell you it is one thing thatsome people try to take that and you are like… Get out of the way.

But what I want to say is that the big thing was that I knew that would never be the only way I wouldever use that is to protect, not to get back. Not for revenge. There’s a time but I’m telling you, man,that was a period that I learned forever. Now again, my father, I wish I could say he changed, he wentback to his old ways, but I’m healed. And I did the things I needed to do, and that’s it.

Tim @ 1:13:29:Thank you.

I have been looking forward to this interview for a long time. Thank you for that as well. I’m going toask one more question and I we’ll go to audience for Q&A. It’s related to a question that I posed

to you in the book, because whether it’s looking at some of your early decisions as a child or thetoughness that you showed in athletics or doing what other people might consider risky by trying tocreate your own category in many different worlds or having that second conversation with your dad, Ithink there’s a quote that really exemplifies you and it’s actually a quote that you gave me in the book.It was in answering the question, if you could have a giant billboard anywhere with anything on it,what would it say and why. It begins with, “God will not.” Could you give us that quote please andexplain its importance?

Terry @ 1:14:37:

“God will not have His work made manifest by cowards.” - Ralph Waldo Emerson

It’s my favorite quote. I literally have it in my dressing room, put on the wall in giant letters, becausefear begets more fear, but courage just begets more courage. You don’t even get to be born unlessyour mother has the courage to have you.

Any great thing, any… Literary creating a business to making art, it takes this courage. It takes thiswillingness to be looked at, to be judged, you have to face down your fears. You have to step outsideand go. It helped me to just lay out what I was afraid of, because that’s the big thing. You have to askyourself, what are you scared of, and then you have to attack. You have to literary lay out. I rememberyou talked about your swimming experience. I was always, when you grow up in the ghetto, they kickyou into the pool and it’s not a very good experience.

We didn’t grow on a nice pool and the beach and the whole thing. It was in the hood and it was like,“Oh, man. It’s not good.” My first experience was horrifying. I almost drowned. One of my fears wasswimming and I remember when I had a house with a pool and I remember going in the backyard andjust diving into the deep end over and over again to get rid of the fear. It’s weird because you get nearthe edge and you go, “Oh man, here I am.” I have to beat it, and so I would just jump in and just keepjumping in, and keep jumping in, until you’re not afraid anymore. Because remember, it’s a confidencegame.

That quote just when you think about anything that’s made, anything that’s created, anything that yousee, that you admire takes so much courage. Because people are going to judge it and people aregoing to say, “Ah, that sucks.” Especially in the age of the internet, everybody is coming in andchipping in with whatever they have to say and you have to be willing and you have to be vulnerable inorder – This is why vulnerability is actually strange, because the vulnerability is part of courage. Youhave to be willing to let people judge your stuff, willing to let people hear your song, willing to letpeople hear you sing.

It’s so wild because I’ll never forget. I got a story for that, is that, the first time I ever got a movie, itwas a big movie. It was with Arnold Schwarzenegger, it was called The 6th Day. I’ll never forget. Ithought it was going to be a quick roll. It turned out to be a big job that works six months inVancouver. I’m like oh my God. The first day I was on set, I had to say this line, “Adam Gibson, comewith us. Please come with us.”

I remember it and they said action and I walked up to Arnold and I was like, “Adam Gibson, we needyou to come with us.” He turned and looked at me. I was like, “Oh, that’s Arnold Schwarzenegger.”And wait, I mean lightning first. Everything went through my head like you don’t deserve to be here.You’re just a dump football player. You’re a farce, these people are going to figure you out. You’re afake, you’re a phony, you fool everybody, it’s a wrap. They’re going to find out and they’re going to kickyou out of here.

That was lightning first. Then something was wrong with the camera. They went, “Oh, you know what,we’ve got a problem with the lights. Give us five minutes”, and this was in a split second.

I remember because I froze. I know I froze. I remember and I just went to the side and I was like,“Terry, you survived NFL. Do you want” – and after I left NFL, I was sweeping floors, I was doingsecurity, and then I went to do acting. I said, “Do you want to go back to sweeping floors? Do youwant to go back to security? Going in there and say this lines, man.” I was literary cursing myself out. Iwas like, “Yo, get some guts dude.”

I walked back in there and they were like, “Action.” I said, “Adam Gibson.”

[laughter]

Arnold was like, “This guy, I like his energy. He’s got a lot of – he’s amazing I like him. He’s really” –Let me tell you, after that, I learned, go in, rush in. There has never been a time, it’s been almost 20years and it has never been a time –and that’s why I want to demystify this thing. There has neverbeen a time that I don’t have those bubbles right before action. Never, ever. It’s always there. Don’t letanybody trick you and act like oh man, I’m good. No. If they’re that good, they don’t care. I’m trying totell you. If you care, you’re going to always be nervous. You’re going to always have to face it.

But when you walk in, it turns into a mirage and it just starts to disappear. I remember on the set ofWhite Chicks, it disappeared. I remember I was rolling and I remember Keenan and Marlon Wayans. Iwas like, “You got any notes, Keenan?” He was like, “Man, do what you do man.” I remember justblowing and everything. People who know and there are a lot of people here who understand it. Ifyou’ve ever been in a flow, it’s amazing.

There’s a time when all the writing just comes, the lines just come. The job is smooth. You’re like,“Man, I can do this all day” that’s by practicing, facing that fear. Fear just going in, going in, going inuntil you hit that zone. Man, it’s the high you will never, ever, ever experience. I encourage everyone.I’m here to demystify it. You will be nervous, always, but go anyway. It’s beautiful.

Tim @ 1:21:06:Terry Crews. All right.

Terry @ 1:21:13:I talk too much. [laughs]

Tim @ 1:21:15:I can listen for hours.

Terry @ 1:21:19:My wife has had enough of this. She will be like, “Oh My God, can we get out of here?”

[laughter]

Tim @ 1:21:25:We have like a number of audience questions, I think we’ll just jump right into it. Then if they’redirected at one or both of us, we will just play some improv-jazz here. This one is from Anonymous,my favorite person especially on the internet. But this is a good question. I’ll pose this one to you.Imagine your 95-year-old self-time traveling and came to you right now. What advice would he give

you?

Terry @ 1:21:50:My 95 year old son?

Tim @ 1:21:53:Self.

Terry @ 1:21:55:Myself, self. Okay. Yes, I was like, “Okay, that’s a deep one.” That’s a movie.

Tim @ 1:22:01:Back to the future question.

Terry @ 1:22:02:That’s a movie right there. Okay. What would he tell me?

Tim @ 1:22:07:Yes. If your very old self came back to this moment and were to give you advice, what would it be?

Terry @ 1:22:14:I would like to think. He would tell me, “You’re doing the right thing.” Because actually and then behonest more so now than ever you start to wonder. I’m doing it, I’m going through this whole – I’mpart of this whole sexual harassment thing that’s going on in Hollywood and you start to doubt likeshould I have come forward? Should I have said anything? I don’t know because I don’t even knowand I’ll be straight honest, I don’t know if I’m going to have a career. That’s just real. The people I’mtalking about are very, very powerful, they run everything, I’m just me and they’re very angry.

Retaliation is one thing that happens in this, but this is the truth. This has been happening to womenfor centuries. Centuries. They’ve been trying to do their thing, just trying to go to work. They rebuffsome guy and he’s going to fire them and get his revenge. They end up getting their dreams messedup. But I want my 95-year-old self to say, “You did the right thing. Everything worked out.” It is darkbecause you just don’t know, but I also at the same time, I like it here. I like the adventure. I like nothaving everything planned.

I told you even coming out here, I don’t want to know the questions. I usually want to go off the beatenpath because this is where the excitement is. I’ve never wanted to be safe and comfortable. It’sexciting here. Another thing is, is that with every person that comes out after and says, “You adding tothe story helped me.” Courage begets courage. That’s the way it’s supposed to be. I’m with it.

Audience @ 1:24:31:You are doing the right thing.

Tim @ 1:24:34:What was that?

Audience @ 1:24:36:You are doing the right thing.

Terry @ 1:24:37:Thank you.

[applause]

Tim @ 1:24:42:This is the question that changes, and this one is directed at me. But I’m going to also ask you. Sinceyou’ve turned 40 years old recently, what lifestyle changes have you made, if any? Mostly itdepends… That’s not true, I decided to turn my head upside and put my hair on my face so I can’t geton top. Life’s honestly, the lifestyle changes are not changing what’s worked. Does that make sense?

I’ve heard at every, what people would consider milestones, whether it’s 25, 30, 40, “It’s all done hillfrom here.” I’m like, “Yes, you seem like you stop doing everything you are supposed to be doing” I’mlike, “I’m just going to keep doing the very simple approach that I have that’s regimented. It’s certainly,your warm-up would kill me. It would send me to the ER probably. But I have my simple approach thatseems to work and it’s really not using excuses to stop doing those things because they seem to keepme strong. Not many lifestyle changes.

The only major change that has become very important to me at least in the last six to 12 months, inparticular, is paying tremendous attention to trying to fix a lifelong habit of berating and brutallyattacking myself with my inner voice. I have been extremely unkind to myself most of my life and Iwish we have enough time to unpack that right now but yes, bad things happened to me really earlyand that made me very angry. I use that anger as a tool but as it’s been said the anger is the the acidin the vessel, it damages the vessel more than anything it’s poured on.

I really realized that in the last six to twelve months that if you want, this is my conclusion at least, thatif you want to love people fully, if you want to share your gifts with the world, you cannot do it if youjust tolerate yourself. You cannot do it if you don’t love yourself. Sounds like an indulgence, did to mefor a long time, it’s not. It’s not a nice to have, it’s a must-have. That’s psychologically emotionally thebiggest change that I’m trying to make. Now you are, even though you look 23, are about to turn thebig 50.

Terry @ 1:27:00:I will be 50. Yes.

Tim @ 1:27:02:What lifestyle changes have you made or what are the most important habits that keep you looking23?

Terry @ 1:27:10:Well, I’ve been doing intermittent fasting for about five and a half years and man, that was the mostvaluable lifestyle change for me. I found out, now again I see people who are much younger than me.I wouldn’t even recommend it for 20-year-olds because you can eat four pizzas and be fine. But asyou get older and I grew up in the bro-science era where it’s like seven meals a day… oat meal.. blah,blah, blah.

A lot of that. It blew me away. I read this book called a Man 2.0 - Engineering the Alpha, and I waslike, “This is crazy” It was unthinkable that my God, you are only eight hours in a day in a 16-hourpattern. I do it every day. Now, some people have seen the benefits of one day a week, the wholething but for me, I do it every day.

Tim @ 1:28:22:What does your schedule look like?

Terry @ 1:28:23:I eat from 2:00 to 10:00 and what’s wild is that, I have an amino acid drink, tea, water when I’m fastingand then my first meal is at 2:00, and sometimes it goes beyond because sometimes I’m not evenhungry until like 3:30. And even today I had just one meal. I don’t feel bad at all. I learned to get bywith less food, I feel more energetic. To be honest with you, I think more so than physically, it’s aspiritual thing. I think for me, everything that is within your grasp is not meant to be in your hands.Learning and teaching yourself to say no and you tell your body what to do.

You say no because what happens is, if your body will always lead you up. If you listen to it, you’regoing to have a problem. There were years when I listened to it and it got me in all kinds of trouble.Now I’m like, “No, you’re going to do what I tell you to do. You’re going to eat when I tell you to eat.” It’sreally, really… it’s an amazing thing and there are lots of scientific ways to prove that it does well, butfor me, it is a spiritual thing.

Tim @ 1:29:46:What is your – I can’t help myself but ask a couple of follow-up questions here. Do you have a defaultor go to first meal? A go to meal that is your first meal of the day.

Terry @ 1:29:58:Yes. Omelette and salad.

Tim @ 1:30:01:What is in the omelette?

Terry @ 1:30:02:It’s usually bacon, a little cheese -

Tim @ 1:30:06:Look at all the bacon supporters in the house.

[laughter]

Terry @ 1:30:10:Bacon is a gift from God, man. God would not have his work made manifest without bacon. That’sTerry Crew… No man, they know the healthy fats and the whole thing, but cheese, bacon in anomelette along with a great salad or some vegetables right there, that’s my go to meal. I can eat thatany time. That’s the first thing I usually have. Anytime when I break my fast, that’s it. It’s light enoughand doesn’t feel heavy. I have tried grabbing a big Brady sandwich before and it’s just, “Oh my God”,you are going to go to sleep immediately. It’s so nuts. But that’s the kind of meal that I love.

Tim @ 1:30:54:All right, omelette for me tomorrow, see if I make it to three o’clock. All right, this question is veryhyper-specific, I’ll take a stab at this, seems to be addressed to me. This is from Tia Carera. Is shehere? Amazing. Hi? Thanks for coming.

Terry @ 1:31:15:Hey Tia, I’m a fan.

Tim @ 1:31:18:Thank you for coming. This is a really specific question, what are your thoughts and cryptocurrency

and could you maybe interview Mike Novogratz on your podcast? Mike Novogratz, a well-knowninvestor, has recently made the statement that he has 5% or 10% of his net worth in cryptocurrencyand blockchain. A fascinating guy, I actually know Mike. I’ve gotten into some scuffles– not in a badway– with Mike because we both have wrestling background. He’s a much better wrestling. Hesupported the USA wrestling program and we met actually in the several places, but in Iowa when Ifirst met Dan Gable who was a hero of mine, a legendary coach who ended up in this book.

Yes, I’d like to have Mike on and he’s actually the brother– which I didn’t put together until Jacquelinewas already going to be in the book– with Jacqueline Novogratz is also just an incredible, incrediblewoman. They have an amazing family. Yes, I’d like to have him on the podcast and I’m sure he’ll bustmy balls half the time. He’s a very tough dude which I invite. That’s perfect.

My thoughts on cryptocurrency are, there will be dragons on the map. I would say be very, verycareful, I’m not a cryptocurrency expert, I do know a lot of experts. Even though I own a little bit ofcryptocurrency, I am very, very cautious to not take the DIY approach because there are a lot of beartraps.

I will say that I think most ICOs are going to endup giving people nothing. I think many of them will beregulated out of existence and the technology is very sophisticated and they’re also very sophisticatedtechnologists who can trick most people into giving up their money for something that will end uppoof, just being vaporware. I think that cryptocurrency and blockchain have the potential to be asimportant as what we consider the Internet.

I’m really borrowing from some of my smarter friends in saying that having spent 17 years beforemoving to Texas in Silicon Valley, I really know some very very smart people and actually like Vitalik,the creator of Ethereum, and Zooko, the creator of Zcash. Many of those folks, because I’m sointerested in it, are all in Tribe of Mentors. I want to come and get them all in one place to see whatpatterns came out of it. Did that with poker players too. I tell you, shouldn’t take all of my investingadvice. But I would say much like picking stocks, you’re up against professionals.

You wouldn’t bet on yourself if you’re playing golf against Tiger Woods, I would hope not unlesssomeone in the audience think could happen here is actually that caliber. Similarly, if you’re playing onWall Street or playing in the world of crypto, you dealing with people who do this all day every day andknow all of the nuances. Just to be very cautious. If you have an informational advantage and you’replaying with chips you can afford to lose then I think it’s something that’s very interesting to explorejust as a way of learning about the technology and implications it might have. It is endlesslyfascinating and endlessly terrifying I suppose in short.

Is that a cough or an incredible laugh? I couldn’t tell. All right. Here’s a question from John and I’d loveto hear your thoughts on this. When you decide to mentor someone? What attributes do they manifestto become mentorable? Then there’s a bonus old Buddhist proverb, “When the student is ready, theteacher appears.” How do you decide who to, not necessarily mentor it implies full time unpaid extrajob but to help someone, to invest in really helping someone? You’ve had, as I understand somepeople have really helped you along the way, whether the art teacher you mentioned, SylvesterStallone I believe that is another. When you have the opportunity, how do you choose? You’ve limitedtime, limited energy, how do you choose who to invest in?

Terry @ 1:35:23:To me, it’s a little bit about – not a little bit. It’s a lot about desire. I’ve come its why because I’ve comeacross. I’ve had people who were in my circle who said they wanted things. When once they realizewhat it took, they were out. I would – anyone that I’ll be willing to mentor or whatever would have to–Iwould send them on little tests.

I mean really it’s like you really have to really want what you’re going for and my wife with–because Imade the mistake before. I was making it too accessible. It’s again it’s kind of–people have to–youhave to desire. You get what you want. There’s a lot of people who are just trying it out and you hearpeople who say they want it. There’s so many… so many things like me as the key. When I wantedsomething, I always would go out of my way to show that person who I wanted as a mentor that I’mwilling to… I show up early. I’m there. 

But I’ve had guys who, man, you’re like, “Okay be here at this time.” And it’s funny. I’m waiting on themand immediately it’s like it’s over. And everybody gets a shot. For me, everybody gets a shot becauseyou don’t know until you get that time. You show up late a couple times. I had one assistant who justforgot a whole bunch of stuff that I’d desperately needed and you’re like, this is just not importantenough for you. Then you have to let them go.

What’s so wild is that every time I let somebody go though, we have a conversation because I want tomake sure that it wasn’t me. I’ll say, you tell me you’re fired so don’t even have to worry. I was like,“There’s no hope of you getting your job back.”

Tell me what I did wrong and tell me what offended you? I get really honest answers that way. It’shelped me become a better employer or a better mentor. There’s been other times when they werelike dude, I messed up. I messed up. And I realized that I had an opportunity and I pissed it away. Iwas like, “Well, you won’t do that again on your next job”. I usually don’t go back. That’s another thingthat I always have to do. I even wrote that in a book about letting people go. It’s part of the process.

Tim @ 1:38:24:You mentioned letting people go, not just in terms of employees, but people in your circle. Maybepeople you grew up with. How do you break up with a friend or how do you have that conversation?Can you give us an example? You don’t have to name names of course. This is something a lot ofpeople and myself included struggle with like you realize. This is someone who was a great apple andthey’ve turned into bad apple. They’re starting to poison this the entire group effectively or have somenegative impact but you’ve known them for so long. How do you navigate that? Could you give us anexample?

Terry @ 1:39:04:Well, first of all, we have a lot of talks as we go to say that, “Hey man, we have to do this. We have tobe held to this standard.” I have an example. There was a one person I told him. He’s a single man,but I also said hey man, you have to understand that I’m a married man, and if I hear any dramaabout women in this your circle, that’s going to be a no-go for me. You have to treat everyone withrespect. I don’t want any of that coming to me. I said, you’ve got to understand because if it is and if ithappens once, I’m gone. He was like, “Oh, man, I would never do that. I understand. I know man. I’vegot your thing man. I understand what you’re talking about.” Until it happened. I went, “Dude, what I –I remember what I told you? You know what I have to do, right?”

He just said, “Yes, I get it. You’re right.” I said, “Okay. Hey man, I love you. I love you like a brother. Iwish it could’ve worked out.” He was a very close friend, and I mean super close. I say, “Man, but I’vegot to go on without you.” It’s weird because Hollywood is one of those things that’s built on thiscamaraderie entourage, whatever, I don’t have that because for one, I found out that the entouragehas you. They know all your things and they start telling you what you’re going to do.

It’s like, “What?” I said, “Never me. I’d rather go alone and I’d rather walk alone.” But it’s hard becausesometimes you do feel lonely, you do feel like the higher up you go, the more is at stake, man. It’sgood that you can be, everybody can be down there and you may hang in there and everybody’s

good, but let me tell you, as soon as you get something and as soon as it becomes bigger than you, itis even more important than you, you got to let– some of these people have to go. They have to. It’snot personal and I tell them I love you, but we just can’t hang anymore. I’ll be brutally honest but notmean, is that… you don’t have to be mean. Some people feel like you’ve got to… but I have always, Ilove you man but it just we just can’t hang.

Tim @ 1:41:44:What do you do if you’ve made that decision and then they reach out to you or you feel the impulse toreach out to them because you’ve just known them, they’ve been a part of your pattern for so long?How do you respond in either this cases?

Terry @ 1:42:00:I’ve blocked people. You put your phone block on, I’ve changed my number. I do that a lot. I havetalked to family members. Family members I’m like man I have people who call me up and angrybecause they felt I should be paying for this and I should be doing that and all of sudden I justdisappear. Do you know what’s amazing? When the phone rings, you don’t have to answer it. That’sthe trick. It’s a trick if you think like, no it’s still– I was like, “Block” All of a sudden it was quiet. Wow,this is peaceful. It got scary because I was like, “Is anybody calling?” I don’t know. I blocked so manypeople and I was like, “Man, this phone isn’t working.” But they get it after a while.

But now I will tell you, every relationship in my life must be voluntary. It must be voluntary. If I had mywife tied up in a basement, is it love? No. I make all my relationships in my life love based meaningyou want to be here. If you’re here, you want to be with me. If you’re my, even my managers, people inmy circle, you are free to go at any time, even my wife.

If my wife was like, “I’m done” I will be like, “Oh no, don’t leave please” and she was like, “I’ve got togo” I will be like, “Damn” I would be her but I couldn’t hold her because it has to be voluntary. But thatworks the same way for me too. If I want to go, you’ve got to let me go. If I say, “I’ve got to go” you’vegot to say, “Okay. I respect that. I understand” In this way, all your relationships are really good onesbecause everybody wants to be there. It’s a beautiful thing.

Tim @ 1:43:57:Thank you. Take a few more. I know we are running out of time, everybody cool? I’m having fun, youguys have fun?

[applause]

All right. I didn’t ask Terry, Terry are you okay?

Terry @ 1:44:12:I’m good, I’m having fun.

Tim @ 1:44:13:[laughs] Felt those traps, I don’t want those inflicted on me. All right. Few more questions, what advicedo you have for an introvert who wants to be an entrepreneur but does not like socializing? This isfrom Rossa. I’d love to hear your take on this, I’ll give my quick piece because I definitely view you asan entrepreneur first and foremost. I should say first and foremost but see entrepreneur, let me justnot rant but I’m going to get my words out for a second.

Entrepreneur, if you look at the root of the word is from, and I will just used the Spanish because it iseasier, “emprender” to undertake, right? It’s someone who is effectively creating something from

nothing. An artist is doing that. There are many different forms of being an entrepreneur. You do nothave to be extroverted. All you have to do to realize that is to watch, for example, early interviews withany people you view as tech luminaries now. It’s the most awkward footage you will ever see in yourlife.

Then they get media training and they’ll sit there like and you’re like, “Oh my God, it’s the clown fromIt. That’s really creepy.” That is what you think normal humans do, okay. You don’t have to pretend tobe something you’re not. You can be shy, you can be introverted. I do think that it is very valuableperhaps as an experiment to do with say what Warren Buffet did who was very introverted at onepoint.

He trained himself in public speaking by going to Toastmasters and so on. Do you think that’s usefulas an experiment? Do not just assume that you are in some way cursed by being introverted, youmay, in fact, have the capacity to do other things. But to be a successful entrepreneur on almost everylevel, you do not have to be an expert at networking, you do not have to be an expert at socializing,you just don’t need it. You can definitely do you and still succeed. I don’t know if you have -

Terry @ 1:46:10:That was really amazing advice. I think that people have views, boldness with being an extrovert, butI’ve seen very amazingly bold introverts who just know who they are and what they want. You don’thave to be loud, you don’t have to be brash. It’s really really a cool thing when you see– it’s funnywhen you see a little old lady who runs this gigantic business and she’s got her thing together, she’sjust walking there with a quiet voice and everybody shakes because they know she means business.That’s that kind of boldness that it doesn’t take a lot loudness, [etc.]… She just knows who she is andshe knows what she wants and that’s, man, that’s all you need. I am with you.

Tim @ 1:47:10:Yes, if you’re good at what you do and I mean so good and I’m totally stealing this from other people,but so being if you are so good that people cannot ignore you, you will not be denied. You could, lookat some of the people out there in the world, they are weird as fucking all hell. Yet if they’re good it’sjust like what are we going to do?

Terry @ 1:47:34:I know.

Tim @ 1:47:35:The best person out there. Embrace your weird self as my friend Chris Sacca would say. All right,we’re going to do last question from the audience and I have one closing question for you. What areyour recommendations for coping, I’m abbreviating a little here, recommendations for coping with self-induced anxiety? I’ll just give few thoughts really quickly because in some families, you have baseballfamilies. Everyone’s good at baseball. Other families, everyone’s really good at basketball. I feel likemy family– not everybody– but like 89% professional worriers.

This is just their specialty. I’ve developed a whole repertoire of different ways to induce anxiety inmyself. It has proven not to be fruitful, I will say in retrospect but a few quick recommendations.Number One is there’s a book, and there are a lot of books like this that have terrible titles and actualgood content, some that sound like infomercials maybe. It has come to mind. But the one I’m thinkingof is How to Stop Worrying and Start Living by Dale Carnegie. This book is surprisingly sophisticated,it offers an entire toolkit for exactly this. It’s very very powerful.

Then I say last just for my piece is some form of the exercise that I call fear setting, which is

completely borrowed from 2,000 plus-year-old philosophy called Stoicism, and I am quoting fromSeneca and others who have done this practice. But if you guys simply search the word fear setting,that is something I do probably every month, certainly every quarter for diffusing the anxiety. Thoseare my two pieces of advice.

Actually, the new one which is in the last year is something I added to what I normally do in themorning, which is journaling. That is if I’m feeling extremely anxious or overwhelmed, and the veryclosely related, I will ask myself, what might this look like if it were easy? This could be a project, itcould be a decision, it could be a contract, it could be a relationship, it could be breaking up. Askingsomeone out doesn’t matter and simply asking that question in writing longhand. It does a lot to takethe nebulous monsters in my head and to trap them on paper and to see that they’re actually justshadows. I’m terrified by nothing in fact. Those are a few thoughts, but anxiety, do you haverecommendations for people for coping with anxiety?

Terry @ 1:50:25:I believe, I can’t be certain on this but there’s a quote in that, that Dale Carnegie book about living lifein day tight compartments.

Tim @ 1:50:38:Man, you do know your self help.

Terry @ 1:50:40:I’ll tell you I don’t know how much. I know. Let me tell you man. That right there, I take those nuggetsand I go -

Tim @ 1:50:49:That is a fine book, it is a good book.

Terry @ 1:50:50:Again, we have the same issues. It’s all one. Again those bubbles, that anxiety, the whole thing andwhen you’re just living, they are like just today done. Today. Don’t worry about tomorrow. Don’t worryabout yesterday. Just today. Man, it feels like all the shackles, you start to feel peaceful. It’s a beautifulthing but that’s such a great book man.

Tim @ 1:51:19:It really is.

Terry @ 1:51:20:It is so right.

Tim @ 1:51:21:That’s one of the books that I have in my living room on the bookshelf covered out which isn’t a greatway to put books on a bookshelf but because I want to see the covers of certain books so that I’mreminded of them. If I’m feeling like I’m going into a tailspin or beginning to get lost in some way, Iknow that I can pull that off and go through the highlights. It’s a fantastic fantastic book. All right. Lastquestion which I think I said 75 questions ago. Terry, what would you like to say or ask as just aparting words? It could be and ask of everybody who’s here who might be listening on the podcast,could be a suggestion, anything at all that you want to ask of people or simply say.

Terry @ 1:52:12:I guess the big ask that I have for everyone is that – this is one quote that really, really gave me a big

perspective is that, “People are not objects to be used, they are people to be loved.” And my big ask isthat you see everyone as people to be loved because one thing I see now in America especially withthe partisan, everybody is democratic or republican or this or that or black or white but were people tobe loved. It sounds very cliche or whatever, but when you get down to the heart of it, when you look atanother person, see them as a child. We’re all like kids and that all of a sudden you can see it muchmore differently because you can instantly love a child.

You can feel the love for a child. A child doesn’t know. A child is figuring it all out. The truth is we don’tknow and we’re all figuring it out. Just please, please, please, before you call somebody an assholeon internet, or before you can push send on that tweet that’s going to tell everybody off, just know thatthis is a person that needs to be loved. There are a lot of people who are getting off on what you don’tknow and they want to treat you like an object and treat you like property and treat you like peoplewho, things that are bought and sold or whatever and whatever, but man, I just ask that if you ever getinto that, stop and think of them as people to be loved.

Tim @ 1:54:29:Ladies and gentlemen, Terry Crews.

[applause]

Terry @ 1:54:33:Love you guys.