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Transcript of The Ryerson Symposium Ryerson University Professor David F. Chavkin Washington College of Law...
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The Ryerson SymposiumRyerson University
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Professor David F. ChavkinWashington College of LawAmerican University
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Professor David F. ChavkinWashington College of LawAmerican University
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Teach First Year courses like Teach First Year courses like Civil Procedure and in our Civil Procedure and in our Integrated CurriculumIntegrated Curriculum
Teach Upper-Level courses Teach Upper-Level courses like Health Law and like Health Law and Professional ResponsibilityProfessional Responsibility
Direct the General Practice Direct the General Practice ClinicClinic
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The General Practice Clinic is the The General Practice Clinic is the largest clinic in the United States largest clinic in the United States with 90-100 students per year.with 90-100 students per year.
Students represent low-income Students represent low-income clients with a wide range of legal clients with a wide range of legal problems.problems.
Students are the attorneys for Students are the attorneys for clients under student practice clients under student practice rules.rules.
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Five lessons (from the southern suburbs of Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver)1.Teaching students to
think like a lawyer is not enough
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Five lessons from the southern suburbs of Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver2. We are doing great
damage to our students starting in the first year
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Five lessons from the southern suburbs of Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver3. Law school needs to be
taught in a more integrated manner
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Five lessons from the southern suburbs of Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver4. Experiential learning is
critical in teaching adults – in moving from pedagogy to andragogy
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Five lessons from the southern suburbs of Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver5. We need to
acknowledge the global nature of legal practice
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Father Guido Sarducci
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“[T]he primary purpose of law school is . . . to teach students to think like lawyers.”
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The face of American legal education has been the face of Christopher Columbus Langdell Large classes Socratic
method Case analysis Good
financially for law schools
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It has been the face of Christopher Columbus Langdell
The goal was to teach students “to think like a lawyer”
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What is wrong with that model?
It works poorly for certain groups Minorities Women
But, the biggest problem is that no one has ever shown that it works effectively for white men.
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What is wrong with that model?
It does a lot of damage along the way.
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What is wrong with that model?
And, teaching someone to “think like a lawyer” is not the same as teaching someone to “be a lawyer”
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The D’Alemberte critique of traditional legal education
Former President of the American Bar Association (1991-92).
Former Chair of the ABA Section of Legal Education and Admission to the Bar (1982-83).
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The D’Alemberte critique of traditional legal education
Former Dean, Florida State University College of Law
Former President, Florida State University.
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The D’Alemberte critique of traditional legal education
"Law students are being told by law professors that 'We don't teach you to be a lawyer, but to think like a lawyer', said D'Alemberte, launching in before his progressively more uneasy audience.
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The D’Alemberte critique of traditional legal education
“'Isn't that a damn strange statement?' D'Alemberte continued. 'What would you say to . . . educators in other fields if they said, 'We don't teach you to be a musician, actor, historian, physicist – but only to think like one?'"
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What/who brought about the current changes in American legal education?
Bob MacCrate Senior Counsel, Sullivan and Cromwell
Former President, American Bar Association
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MacCrate Report - 1992 ABA Task Force on Law
Schools and the Profession: Narrowing the Gap
Recommended the teaching of lawyering skills and professional values in law schools to enhance professional development
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The MacCrate The MacCrate
ReportReport
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ABA Accreditation Standard 301(a)(circa 1993)
“(a) A law school shall maintain an educational program that prepares its students for admission to the bar.”
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MacCrate Report Recommendations
Teaching should develop the concepts and theories underlying the skills and values being taught
There should be an opportunity for students to perform lawyering tasks with appropriate feedback and self-evaluation
There should be reflective evaluation of the student’s performance by a qualified assessor
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C. Enhancing Professional Development During the Law School Years
2. Standard 301(a) regarding a law school's educational program should be amended to clarify its reference to qualifying "graduates for admission to the bar" by adding: ". . . and to prepare them to participate effectively in the legal profession."
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C. Enhancing Professional Development During the Law School Years
This would affirm that education in lawyering skills and professional values is central to the mission of law schools and recognize the current stature of skills and values instruction. (Chapter 7.C and Chapter 7.B)
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ABA House of Delegates Resolution - 1994
“Methods [clinical legal education] have been developing for teaching law students skills previously considered learnable only through post-graduation experience in practice.”
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The accreditation standards This recognition by the House of
Delegates would find form in concrete changes in the accreditation standards that govern law schools in the United States.
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American Bar Association accreditation of law schools
As of October 2008, a total of 200 institutions were approved by the American Bar Association.
Graduation from an ABA-accredited school is usually required in order for students to take the bar examination.
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ABA Accreditation Standard 301(a)
(a) A law school shall maintain an educational program that prepares its students for admission to the bar and effective and responsible participation in the legal profession.
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Standard 302. CURRICULUM. “(a) A law school shall require
that each student receive substantial instruction in: . . . (4) . . . professional skills generally regarded as necessary for effective and responsible participation in the legal profession . . . .”
substantial opportunities for instruction in
professional skills
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Standard 302(b). A law school shall offer substantial opportunities for:
(1) live-client or other real-life practice experiences, appropriately supervised and designed to encourage reflection by students on their experiences and on the values and responsibilities of the legal profession, and the development of one's ability to assess his or her performance and level of competence;
live-clientlive-client appropriately supervised
appropriately supervised
encouragereflection
encouragereflection
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How do we get there?
Clearly, not through the Socratic method!
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Payne v. Cave (1789)
"Mr. Freiberg, will you state the facts in the case of Payne v. Cave?"
“This case deals with an auction for a wormtub. The defendant was the highest bidder, bidding 40 pounds for the tub. But before the auctioneer's hammer came down, the bidder revoked his bid. The next day, they resell it to the same guy, and he buys it for 30 pounds. The seller sues the buyer for the difference between the first bid (40 pounds) and the second bid (30 pounds). If the seller wins, the damages are 10 pounds.”
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What is a wormtub (anyway)?
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What changes do we want to create in our students?
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Goals of Legal Education
We want to produce lawyers with the skills to be effective.
We want to produce lawyers with the values to be responsible.
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Why shouldn’t we leave the teaching of skills and values to post-graduation work/apprenticeships/articles? 1. Law schools are committed to
the education of students above other interests.
2. Law schools employ individuals skilled in teaching.
3. Law schools employ teachers who are good role models.
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quality alternative to articles
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The Carnegie Foundation Report (2007)
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“Law school should be seen ‘as
apprenticeship to the profession of
law.’"
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“The first apprenticeship, . . . intellectual
or cognitive, focuses the student on the
knowledge and way of thinking of the
profession.”
The three apprenticeships of legal education
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“The second . . . apprenticeship is to the
forms of expert practice shared by
competent practitioners.”
The three apprenticeships of legal education
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“The third apprenticeship, . . . identity and
purpose, introduces students to the
purposes and attitudes that are guided by
the values for which the professional
community is responsible.”
The three apprenticeships of legal education
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“The potential of clinical-legal education for bringing together the multiple aspects of legal knowledge, skill, and purpose has long been noted.”
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First, do no harm
We should respect our own Hippocratic oath (to first do no harm) and we should acknowledge the tremendous harm that we do to law students in law school.
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Depression among law students and lawyers
10%
32%
40%
17.90% 19%
9% 9% 9% 9% 9%
0%5%
10%15%20%25%30%35%40%45%
PreLaw 1st Year 3rd Year 2 YrsPostGrad
0-78 Yrs ofPractice
Lawyers General Population Maximum
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Psychological Distress(Source: Beck 1995-96)
18%
30%
21%
7%10%
27%
16%
11%
0%
5%
10%
15%
20%
25%
30%
Male Lawyers Female Lawyers GeneralPopulation
Global Distress AnxietyDepression Paranoid IdeationInterpersonal Sensitivity Social Isolation & AlienationObsessive-Compulsiveness Hostility
2.27%
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Clients do not enter a law office with the nature of their legal problem stamped on their forehead! TortsContracts
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Revisions to the first year curriculum
Integration of first-year curriculum to show connections between what were distinct courses
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Andragogy, not pedagogy Pedagogy refers to the art and science of educating children.
Andragogy refers to the art and science of helping adults learn.
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Adults learn differently from children
We should be basing our instruction on principles of andragogy, not pedagogy.
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Adults learn differently from children
Adults learn best through discovery learning, through grappling with ambiguous problems in which they can own their experience and draw theory from practice.
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Confucius (551-479 BCE)
I hear and I forget.
I see and I remember.
I do and I understand.
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Aristotle “Nicomachean Ethics” Book 2 Ch. 1, 350 B.C. “Moral virtue
comes about as a result of habit. . . . For the things we have to learn before we can do them, we learn by doing them.”
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The Correspondence of Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes and Sir Frederick Pollock (1926)
“We learn how to behave as lawyers, soldiers, merchants, or what not by being them. Life, not the parson, teaches conduct.”
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David Kolb Definition of Learning “Learning is the process
whereby knowledge is created through the transformation of experience.”
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The “Best Practices” Report (2007)
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“While law schools help students
acquire some of the essential skills and
knowledge required for law practice,
most law schools are not committed to
preparing students for practice.”
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“Law schools should help students acquire
the attributes of effective, responsible
lawyers including self-reflection and lifelong
learning skills, intellectual and analytical
skills, core knowledge and understanding of
law, professional skills, and
professionalism.”
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“Optimal learning from experience involves
a continuous, circular four-stage sequence
of experience, reflection, theory, and
application.”
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Experiential learning model of Kurt Lewin as described by David Kolb (1984)
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We often diminish the importance of experiential learning by using it interchangeably with the term “skills training” The term “skills” training ignores
the (greater) importance of “values” training.
Even within the term “experiential learning,” not all experiences are equally valuable to adult learning.
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4 GEORGETOWN JOURNAL OF LEGAL ETHICS 537 (1991)
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Expansion of experiential learning Integration of experiential
components in substantive courses
Integration of drafting and simulation exercises into existing courses
Expansion of clinical opportunities
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Globalization of the curriculum
Expansion of international law courses in the upper-level curriculum
Integration of international law issues into existing courses (intellectual property, health law, criminal law)
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Globalization of the curriculum
Creation of partnerships with other institutions
Expansion of summer programs
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