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THE PROBLEM WITH MLM FOR COACHES: Why So Many Coaches Feel Burned by MLM (And What to Do About It if You Don’t Want to Be One of Them!)

An Interview with David and Glenn

(This is a Transcript of a Free Full Length Audio Available for Download Below) http://www.coachcertificationacademy.com/TheBlog/the-problem-with-mlm-for-coaches

Glenn Livingston's companies have sold over $30,000,000 in consulting and/or coaching services. Glenn has worked with over 1,000 coaching clients, has directly supervised many coaches and psychotherapists, and his company's work and theories appeared in dozens of major media. David is a Yale University graduate who serves a difficult set of niches in mental health with lay-coaching systems. (He also sells DVDs, CDs, Books, and eBooks). He’s done literally thousands of coaching sessions, and has gathered over 11,000 testimonials from raving fans at last count...all while competing with major drug companies (as essentially a lone-wolf coach and small business person with less than 15 employees) for share of voice. David has also developed creative coaching techniques and systems which work with families in serious emotional and financial turmoil. He’s funded much of these endeavors with millions of dollars earned in multi-level marketing

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TRANSCRIPT The Problem with MLM (for Coaches)

FULL DISCLOSURE: I talk to a LOT of coaches exploring Multilevel Marketing as a supplemental income

source while they’re building a practice. As you’ll see in the interview, I’m pretty skeptical about MLM for

coaches because most don’t seem to have a realistic understanding of just how many contacts it takes to

generate a monthly income they can live on.

That said—as David points out—a systematic, risk-managed plan in a solid company can provide a significant

opportunity most people can’t find elsewhere. And MLM can help coaches develop many of the persuasive and

interpersonal skills required to build a successful coaching practice.

Still, despite my trust in David, despite knowing and believing he’s made millions in MLM, and despite the fact it

might make sense for me to own a distributorship in his company because of the thousands of opportunities my

automated systems generate…

I ONLY think MLM makes sense for coaches who really know what’s it takes up front, and are going into it with a

willingness to do it. On a practical basis, this means developing a SYSTEM for generating leads beyond friends

and family, and committing to talking to at least two or three people a day for at least a year. (Read the

transcript for David’s specific advice on how to do this)

IMPORTANT: It also very rarely involves PAID advertising online unless and until you've got enough success

and surplus income to risk... usually years down the line. Finally, it’s essential to rigorously evaluate a company

before you join so you know you’re building on solid ground.

Long story short… I do NOT think MLM is for you as a coach unless (1) you understand you’ll need to talk to a

few new people every day for at least a year or two in order to create an income you can live on; (2) you’re

willing to approach it systematically to find people beyond your personal friends and family; (3) you carefully

evaluate any company you’re considering according to David’s advice (he's the high paid consultant large hedge

fund managers go to when they’re trying to decide whether to invest in a particular MLM company); (4) you're

very careful about how you mix it into your coaching and coach marketing, etc... because it can be--and often is-

-a turn off to prospective clients.

I initially hesitated to do this interview because I've heard a lot of stories of people who just lost a bunch of

money... and I feel it's my job to protect coaches from this. But all things considered, since SO many coaches

seem to be exploring MLM as a supplement, I wanted you to hear from an expert I trusted. David is a long term

friend who allowed me to voice my skepticism in full and addressed every last point. I think anyone and

everyone who's considering MLM in any way, shape, or form should have the benefit of this dialog.

To speak with David for FREE about whether you are well suited for MLM (or any particular opportunity you are considering) please submit the form at:

www.TheMLMSecret.com

David reserves the right to withdraw this free consultation offer at any time if he either becomes overwhelmed with calls and/or finds there are too many “tire kickers” calling with casual inquires. Therefore, if the consultation form is available on www.TheMLMSecret.com and you’re serious about evaluating this opportunity, now is the time to use it. (But if you’re pretty sure it’s not for you, I’d respectfully request you don’t bother him)

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Glenn: Hey, this is Glenn Livingston of The Coach Certification Academy. I'm here with,

actually, a very good friend of mine, David. How are you, David? David: I'm doing great. Glenn: The reason that I asked David to join me today is because there are a lot of people

coming into my coaching newsletter and some people that come into the academy, and they're actually trying to decide between being a coach, or going to some multi-level marketing company, or maybe doing both. Particularly, the people who are involved in some type of wellness coaching, they're interested in MLM. But, there are also other people that are just kind of interested in the financial side of MLM

I don't know a lot about MLM. I'm actually kind of skeptical. I tend to steer them

away from it. I can give you the reasons that I'm generally skeptical. But, it's kind of odd for me because David is a very good friend of mine. I know that he's literally made millions in MLM. We've had some arguments and hard conversations over the years. I wanted to really just play this out on tape so that people would have the benefit of his perspective, my perspective, and kind of be able to make up their own mind because I don't feel like I'm adequate to advise them, given the limited amount of experience that I have. David, is that okay with you?

David: Absolutely. You're a network marketing skeptical person. I get it. A lot of people are.

We'll talk about that for sure. Glenn: Right. The reason I've had doubts about whether it's legitimate, I'm a distributor for

certain companies, I haven't really worked at it. There are some things that made sense for me. I bought a distributorship and kind have that in the back working well someday, I'm going to work on that or something like that.

The reason that I'm kind of skeptical is -- here's my experience. They would recruit me into the company. They would say to all these people, "Go out. First of all, tell all of your friends and family and be a product of the product. Once you're done bringing in all your friends and family, then, maybe you want to go out and spend money on advertising." What I see is that, people get kind of manic. They spend a lot of time and money. They burn some of their friends and family. It's really not enough for them to get a return. The bid price is, I'm a pay per click expert over the years so I deal with people who go out and buy paid advertising on the search engines, the bid prices seem like they're artificially inflated as compared to what the compensation

[0:02:05] plan can really give you. They're inflated because of that mania which seems to me to be created by the companies and all the ra-ra enthusiasm and the crazy meetings that they have. "We're going to make so much money. You're going to be independent." It's a very rare person that I see that actually develops that income. That's my skepticism in a nutshell. I'm wondering, can you address that? Is it part of -- is that real? What part of it is isn't real? How do you answer that?

David: There are a lot of questions there. One of them -- most people doing network marketing

should not be using PPC. It's extremely difficult. You know, I've made it work. It cost me

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a lot of money to figure it out, over a lot of years. That's first and foremost. Out of all the successful people I've ever met, they've just have never done PPC. The only person that I really know that has done that is me. Right there, that's a tough road to go down. You're right. If you think about it, there are millions of distributors in the United States in network marketing. There are tens of millions worldwide. Some say, 30 million people in the US. The numbers are staggering.

If you just look at the numbers in any company at all, they're bringing in a lot of new people. They're just a percentage of people. It's not manic per se. It's just a percentage of people are like, "Oh, I'm going to Google or Bing and use PPC." They don't know what they're doing. Then, they just drive up the prices. But, it's very similar to a lot of different niches where there's a lot of people coming in it, the bid prices get driven up. I mean there's debt, credit, mortgage, you know, those are all places where people hear, like, people hear, "Oh, people are making a lot of money doing online stuff with mortgage forms." They read that in a book in Barnes and Noble or online. Then, they jump into that particular niche. They have no idea what they're doing. They don't set budgets. Now, they just spent a whole bunch of money and drive up prices. That happens a lot. I just really would say to people, like they should just really cautiously use PPC in network marketing. 98.9% of people should just stay away from that.

Now, to address your next point, too, I've gotten in great debates with people about this, kind of in your questions and statements. You were saying, you know, the ra-ra meetings. My take on that is, it's okay to go somewhere that pumps you up. I had this whole discussion where a friend of mine is negative on network marketing. She'll say, "Oh, these meetings. They get you all pumped up and tell you all this money you could make." I asked her, I said, "Well, what would be the opposite of that? Let's go to the ghetto where they tell you that you can't make any money? There's a government conspiracy. Only a handful of people, five people who are bankers, all in a room, make all the money."

[0:04:38] I mean, that is truly, if you go to the ghetto, that is what the thesis is if you go to the ghetto. That's what you hear in poor areas in the ghetto. This is the reality. I have a degree in Sociology. On the front lines, it was astonishing, the difference between a wealthy area where it's upbeat, possibilities, you can do it. Johnny can go wherever he wants. Suzy can take over the world. Then, you would go to a bad area. It was, Johnny, you can only do this. Suzy, let's just hope that she doesn't have three kids out of wedlock. She really can't make any money because everything's fixed. Let's focus on, maybe, we could win the lottery. This is the sad reality.

I take a little bit of offense to that because I think it's good for people to hear

upbeat language and you can do it. Because, most people I know, they sell themselves short. This is a lot of people who are my friends. They get up. They're like, "Oh, I'm just going to go to a regular job. Yeah, I'm going to make $55,000 a year. I'm not really going to have any big dreams or goals. I could never build a Facebook. I could never mine golds on the moon." Which I just heard about a guy who was from India, poor India, came to US, immigrated, became a billionaire through hard work, programming, so on and so forth. Now, he's trying to mine minerals on the moon. There's a guy that thinks and can do the possibilities but a lot of American people have been beaten down. They've gotten very complacent. I think those meetings are good. I think where people

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would get mad is they say, "Oh, you have all these meetings in network marketing. All these companies, all these meetings, how come there aren't millions and millions and millions of millionaires?"

I think the answer is because most people go to these meetings. They get

pumped up. The motivation dies. Then, TV takes over. The radio takes over. A lot of other nonsense that interferes with their goals. They're not just hungry. Fortunately, I'm friends with a lot of foreigners. A lot of people came from India, Pakistan, Nigeria, Italy, Sicily, Mexico. They work hard. They really are hungry for an opportunity. Because, like, someone was telling me, there are no opportunities in Sicily. I came to this country 40 years ago. He goes, "You can't make yourself something in Sicily? Do it in America." I think a lot of Americans have lost that. MLM is trying to get people back into that mindset.

Glenn: What do you have to be careful about? Where do you need to protect naive people

from? If you think about coaches in particular -- David: Yeah, absolutely. Coaches are upbeat people. They're excited. People who are in

prospective companies, they see these coaches. They say, "Wow, [0:07:12]

this person would do great in network marketing because they're upbeat. They got a great attitude. They're good with people." To me, when you are evaluating a company, you've got to evaluate the management. You've got to evaluate the products or services. How you get paid in the market. At the top is the management; who's running the company. A lot of times, is it hard to get a straight answer in these newer companies? Who is running the company? What's their background? A lot of people don't know how to run and manage a network marketing company. If you're new to the industry, you're new to network marketing, you don't have an appetite for risk; you should avoid start-ups. Anything that's under five years old is a risk, because most companies in network marketing go out of business within five years.

Glenn: Oh. David: What I tell people, I coach them myself. I say, "Look, if you're looking at a company that

just started out, there's a 98%, 99% chance the company's going to go out of business because it's under five years old. I'll say, "Do you have an appetite for that risk?" They'll say, "What do you mean by that?" I'll say, "Are you okay with spending this amount of time, maybe a year or two, the company goes out of business." They're like, "Of course not." I say, "Well, then, you should find a company that's over five years old because there's a greater chance it's going to be in business. It's going to stay around." That's one of the things.

Studying the management, how long has it been around, who's running it, what does it look like. If it’s under five years, if you don’t have an appetite for risk, I would just stay away from it. Because the company that's under five years old generally is going to have more growing pains, less marketing. They have less marketing, less brochures, less stuff for you, the person who go out and promote the products and the business. That means that somebody has to do it. That might be you. Or, you've got to wait for somebody to do it. If you've got to do it, you've got to spend money to do it. That's what I

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had to do it when I first got in. I got in a company that was very young and new. I had to spend a lot of money making a lot of stuff because it wasn't done.

There are a lot of road bumps and bruises. But, again, when I started, I was very

young. I could blow up my life several times over and I still would have been 30 years old. I was okay with that. Even when I got right out of college, I was living at home so who cares? I didn't really have any bills.

[0:09:20] So, the next thing is the products and services. You know, look at their products and services. If it's a health product, if it's something that's consumable, there is a much greater chance that the company will stay in business. I look at data. I'm a data guy, If you look over 60, 70 years, what companies have been around? Its vitamins, soaps, powders, lotions, personal care products, household products, that's what stayed. What's gone out of business? Even after five years, are services like technical things. technology; like technologies, telecommunications went over a billion dollars. That is not a personal care product or a nutritional company. It was phone service that went out of business. A company called Future Web. I mean, you could go on and on, of all the technical, IT-related, technology-based, network marketing companies that never made it. There are only maybe three or four that are not in that personal care, nutrition, household product arena that are still in business.

Glenn: That's interesting. The two biggest ways that people get burned don't have anything to

do with the company being a scam. It has more to do with them being new and choosing the wrong type of product to build on.

David: Absolutely. That's absolutely the situation. People get excited. I mean, there's a lot of

energy in network marketing companies now. Tons of them. Most of them are under five years old. They're getting started. They have terrible customer service. They're run by fools. They're run horribly. You try to sign up, it's a nightmare. I ask the question, "Are these companies going to be around?" Probably not. They're not what I just said. They're energy network marketing companies. They have terrible service. They're run by people who don't understand network marketing. There's a lot of risk there. But, maybe, there is one big one. Maybe, that one will go to $4 billion, $5 billion, $10 billion, maybe, but it's not likely.

Glenn: Are there companies that are actually consciously and purposely trying to scam people?

Do you run into that? David: Do I hear of companies that are intentionally trying to scam people? No. Do I know

companies that have no idea what they're doing and a by-product of having no idea what you're doing is you do hurt people financially? Yes. There are pyramid schemes, Ponzi schemes. Most of the pyramid and Ponzi schemes that I've known are actually related to church. They have nothing to do with network marketing. The overwhelming majority of Ponzi schemes and pyramid schemes that I've seen in my lifetime and heard about have all had their start in a church.

Glenn: That's interesting. Why? [0:11:55]

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David: They're selling investments. Glenn: Oh, interesting. David: That's what I've seen. When people think of network marketing companies as Ponzi

schemes, even if you watch American Greed on CNBC, if you're a US-based listener right now --

Glenn: Cool show. David: Yeah. You'll see a lot of them. You know, its church people who, they're in a church.

People believe in that person. Then, they get them in this crazy investment, the Ponzi schemes, so on and so forth. But, there have been some network companies that have been declared Ponzi schemes, no question about it. But, there's bad companies in every industry.

Glenn: If you want to go into network marketing, you should look for a consumable company

that's been around for at least five years. You talked about having people who know what they're doing. How could a novice decipher whether the management knows what they're doing?

David: That's tough. You look at people's background. Where do they come from? What did

they do before? If they're 25 years old, running a company; 30 years old, and they really had no corporate experience, that's a little bit of a risk. They're starting a company. They've been in the industry for 20 or 30 years based on what the bio is saying. Then, they had real traditional jobs in big global companies; that really helps.

Let's say, you're looking at health, wealth, network marketing companies. There

are two owners. There are three owners. You're looking at them all. They have some solid backgrounds. They claim to be in network marketing for 25 years; one worked for Coca Cola and is vice president of South American sales. You start looking at that. Looks like a solid person. But then, if you see somebody and it's like, Tally Joe, no real background. She's number one earner in an unknown company in an unknown area and that's it. She's just amazing. That's not a real strong foundation there to run a global network marketing company, which presumably, you want to be in a company that wants to go global.

Glenn: How did you get into this in the first place? David: Well, when I was going to college, I had a landscaping business. I was starting to see a

sign that says, "Lose 30 pounds in 30 days Diet Magic." I was seeing the sign everywhere. I would say to myself, "Man, that sign guy

[0:14:01]

really gets around. It's weird. Why are they posting these signs for weight loss product?" Then, I noticed, when I went to look for colleges, there were signs up in Connecticut, in Boston. I was like, "Wow!" There's a different number. I was like, "What is that?" I thought to myself, "I'm going to call that number when I get back." I called the number. I found out, long story short, it's a network marketing company. I didn't know what

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network marketing was. When I got to college, I started researching network marketing. I decided to really delve into the industry, analyze it.

Glenn: This is at Yale, right? David: Yes. Glenn: You're very modest about that. You never mentioned that. But, I thought people should

know. David: I really analyzed it. My professor's very skeptical of the industry. I did several papers on

it. I just analyzed what made companies legitimate, grow, implode, was it a legitimate industry, what were Ponzi schemes, pyramid schemes, what regulators didn’t like, so on and so forth. Over two years, so, I was writing that over about two years.

Glenn: While you were doing that analysis, were you in these companies? David: No. Glenn: Okay. You were an objective outsider. David: Yes. Objective outsider. Then, I got out of school. I decided, like, hey, I'm going to

actually get into this. It was really tough for the first year. I made no money at all. I probably made no money at all. I spent more than I made for the first year and a half. It was tough. Then, I started testing different things, just took off from there. I wound up doing really, really well. Then, adding on other businesses in addition to network marketing. I like network marketing so I met the best of the best. I was able to know who goes to a good school, pick up the phone, call a company and say, "Hey, I need to talk to distributors, write a whole bunch of stuff on your companies." They'd put me on the phone, talk to distributors. I would hear about kind of the strategies they use, how they did it. The real smart ones made millions in networking. Then, they opened up other businesses.

There's a guy. He was making up to $5 million a year. Then he opened a whole

bunch of storage facilities and multiplied his wealth significantly. [0:15:59]

But the good thing is when you build a base in network marketing, it's done right and you got residual income and they aren’t consumables, that type of thing, then, you can get into other stuff. You can take your network marketing income, put a certain percentage into saving, a certain percentage into charity, certain percentage into new investments, new businesses, and new concepts. It's just a great thing. You don't have the oval office. You don’t have employees. All that rigamaro that drags people down. I think -- when you came to me and you were saying, "I got all these coaches asking about network marketing." You didn't really know why. It's because a lot of people, their coaches are upbeat. The other thing is they make good people generally in this type industry. But, for coaches, they’re trading time for dollars which is totally fine. I have a business that I trade time for dollars so I do consulting. If I'm not doing anything, I'm not getting paid. I think that's completely fine. But, in network marketing, is a great thing to

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add on when you're getting paid like that. Because then, you're making money, like, residually when you're not having to work. I think that's why fitness trainers, life coaches, or say, 30 million people are in the industry because I think they all want the same thing.

Glenn: Stop only trading time for dollars even if it is very, very high dollars per hour, right? David: Right. Exactly. Glenn: You need to have those other options. What is it that differentiates the smart ones or

maybe you could say -- you said that first year and a half or so was painful, you weren't making money, you were losing money. What did you learn that you're able to actually start making money? What distinguishes people who do from people who don't?

David: The people who do, they have a system. They have some mechanism to expose the

products, services, and or their distributorship to a large number of people. That was the big thing that I didn't understand. I didn't really pick up when I was writing all these papers of like the actual numbers. When I came out of school, I was talking to a few number of people. I was going to the mall. It's just stupid stuff, putting signs up. But, I wasn’t doing it on a mass scale. I'll give you an example. I'm putting up signs, right? Getting some calls, but then, I find out that the person that I talked to about the signs, who put out like 20,000 signs. I'd put out 30. Can you imagine 20,000 versus 30? Who's going to get a better result?

Glenn: You were off by several orders of magnitude. [0:18:16] David: Yes, exactly. I'll never forget this, too. I interviewed somebody. I won't use his name but

a great guy, daughter as well in the industry. They were making up to $1 million a month in the 80's in network marketing. They were doing it. They were giving out, doing home parties with the VCR tape in the 80's. Then, I did more research. This is after I graduated. I found out they gave out 25,000 tapes in their area. I didn't understand that. Once I understood that you got to do big volume, talk to, go through a lot of people, get a lot of people in the product, sift through the numbers. Once they train you in the industry. But, where they don’t train you, where the industry falls short, they do kind of misrepresent the number. It's a big numbers game. I think the industry doesn't want to scare people and say, "You got to talk to thousands of people."

Glenn: If you want to make millions, you have to talk to thousands. David: Yeah. That's really the deal. Glenn: This is where it falls down for me. How is it possible for Joan Q life coach to talk to

20,000 people? I don't understand how they could do that. David: The reality is, Joan is probably not going to do that but does Joan really want to make

$1.5 million a year? She'll say, yes, probably, but then, she doesn’t want to talk to 20,000 people. Can Joan make $5000 a month by talking to several hundred?

Glenn: I see.

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David: Yeah. That's what happens. Now, you look at Joan. She's got a center of influence. She does it for two years. She consistently talks to two, three people a day for several years. No big deal. This isn’t a 40-minute presentation. It’s, like, "Hey, I'm in acne company. They got a great product that helps you lose weight, gives you energy. Would you want to try?" That's the definition of talking. Or, "Hey, you know what? Do you want to make extra money? I got a way to make extra money. Do you want to sit and look at it? It's network marketing."

David: Yeah. There's another thing too. The weight loss is really big. I mean, it’s just huge. I

mean, I've done really well with weight loss. What happens is, let's say, you’re coaching Mary. She lost 30 pounds. She loses 30 pounds. I mean so many people around her ask, like, "How did you lose the 30 pounds? You got to tell me. What is the product?" Right there, that becomes a catalyst. That's a big component of getting a product result, getting an experience especially, when it's weight loss. Right now, I work with a really good weight loss product that works great. People don't have to kill themselves. They get on the product. They lose weight. People ask them, "Hey, how did you lose weight?"

That's very similar to, like, I got my start where I had a lot of joint pain getting off

of a 14 years of football. I mean, I could barely walk. I had so much pain. The company I was in, they had a great joint formula. It helped me tremendously. A lot of the seniors at the YMCA I was at, they were just astonished. Then, they could visually see that I could move around. I was getting back to training like the old days. I was living proof that something was working. They asked me. I built a tremendous following out of that YMCA.

Glenn: How do you coach others to find people to sell their products to? David: I coach people, like, get them the products, make a list of people you know that might be

interested in the product. Just talk to them. Just give them free information. Orally, tell them your product story. Show them a video. I just teach an indirect message for the business I tell people, just to talk to everybody and say, "I'm in network marketing. I'm looking for people help me expand, people who want to make some extra money. If you know anybody, just let me know." That's an indirect way of asking people, in a non confrontational way that doesn't make you feel weird. "Joe, hey, you know what? I'm in network marketing. I know you're all busy and all set and everything. But, I'm looking for some people who aren't really set financially. You need to make some extra $200, $300, $400, $500 a month."

Glenn: I see. You're protecting their ego. [0:22:38] David: Absolutely. Yes, that's what I do. Once we get beyond the local people, then people that

heavily use Facebook; that works amazing now. Also then, people could start looking into buying advertising; locally, flyers. Investing in local advertising means as opposed to Google nationwide which is extremely difficult. I don't even do that now.

Glenn: How would you have them use Facebook?

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David: What they do now at Facebook, they do before and afters. They announce they're using a new weight loss product. They're going to do a cleanse. They post a before -- and use a little bit of pressure to actually stay on the wagon and the program. They post their afters. When they do that, just for posting something about weight loss, you’re trying a new cleanse, you’re trying a new program, your friends will like you. People are analyzing from looking at Facebook, they'll like you. They'll have more interest. Then, when you have good before and afters, then, you’re proven to people, like, "Hey, this works." Then, through the mechanism of Facebook, you wind up getting people interested on the products.

Glenn: Very interesting. I could see that actually turning into a vehicle to attract wellness

coaching clients, for example. If you were a weight loss coach, I could see doing that kind of thing might be a vehicle to actually not only attract other people into the MLM business but other people into the weight loss coaching. I'm still a little skeptical. I always believe and trust you, but I don't know why, why am I so skeptical?

David: I think the reason why people are so skeptical on network marketing is people have

seen so many people not make money. I've seen so many people make money that it's the opposite. I've known them. I've asked them a million questions. I know they did it.

I think at the core, Glenn, most people who have failed in the industry just didn’t put in the level of effort. You and I have a number of different businesses. We've done a lot of things. I've done a lot of businesses. I know what it takes to do well in business. I work really hard. When I talk to people who are mad at network marketing, they didn't really put in a lot of effort. They certainly didn't invest a lot of money. I mean, for some reason, it's strange. Network marketing people invest $200, $300, they're, "I lost all this money." I'm like, "Are you kidding me?" When I was 15 years old, I lost the fastest $10,000 in my life. I had $10,000 that I saved up from a whole bunch of other businesses. Boom! I lost it in the summer from landscaping business. Gone.

Glenn: Right. [0:25:01] David: So fast and that landscaping business, it’s almost like I put a hundred million dollars in it

and I lost a hundred million because I had no idea what I was doing. I hear some of these people. "I lost $200. I lost $400." I'm like, "Are you kidding me? It's $400." Every time you go to the mall, this is what I preach to people, every time you go to the mall and you see new stores, that's someone who failed. How much do you think, Glenn, does it cost to get into a mall store and then get out of it? What do you think, $30,000, $40,000?

Glenn: Yes, sure. No, no, no. I mean if you compare it to any other reasonable business, I

understand that. David: Most of those businesses, they're not making that much money. You look at a lot of

these franchises, people spend $50,000, $75,000. Maybe, they're going to take home $4,000. People want to make $4,000 a month in network marketing and they want to spend $843 and work three hours a week. It just doesn’t compute.

Glenn: Can I ask you a different kind of question? David: Yes, sure.

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Glenn: How much more time do you have? David: Plenty. Glenn: In what ways do you think the experience of being in network marketing could help

people as a coach? I know we talked about financially, that it could be-- David: Absolute great question. Glenn: Does it build your character in some of the same ways that would provide you more

strength to do your coaching? David: Yes. I think network marketing, it gives you such skills with dealing with all kinds of

people, doing presentations, talking to people, selling yourself, selling others, inspiring people, being inspired, yeah, because coaches have to inspire. They have to be inspiring. You really learn a lot. I think it's great. It reminds me of -- I met a guy. He said, "Everybody should be forced to be in the boy scouts and the girl scouts." Some people might disagree with that. I wasn't in the boy scouts. I see a lot of fantastic attributes of people who are in the boy scouts.

[0:26:50]

I feel like in network marketing, you learn a lot of good things about personal development that can help you in coaching, for sure, even exposed to personal development concepts that you’re going to, inevitably, have to use in your coaching practice. I know, to some extent, how you teach coaching. But, there are times where you have to think about how to motivate or how to help someone reach their goals when they're having a number of roadblocks.

Glenn: Yes. I mean, That's kind of interesting for those people who don’t know. David and I talk

all the time. Maybe, you guys think of me at another level. I suppose, I'm at another level than most of the people listening. But, I'm one of those people that need motivating. I regularly, kind of, get stuck. It seems there is an impossible problem ahead of me. David has been someone who's motivated me thought that. To some respect, my abilities to motivate others come from some of the experience that I've had with David like that. We all come across those roadblocks. We all have to do that. I understand exactly what you're saying. I think that that's important.

David: For sure. It helps you become better at sales. I got news for people. I really got news for

people. If you hate sales, I hate to say it, I know people are going to get all annoyed when they hear this. It's tough because you got to sell yourself in everything now. Now, coaching? You got to sell yourself. It's not, the guy with 16 gold chains with the greasy hair, they’re selling stocks. You're not that kind of sales person, but you have to explain. Why should I go you as a coach versus John down the street?

It was interesting, I was just at Enterprise Rent A Car today. They were saying how, they have to be able to sell why to go to their Enterprise versus the one that's four miles away or the Hertz or the Avis.

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Glenn: Very big part of my program is helping my coaches understand that they've got to answer why the people in their niche should choose them as opposed to every other possible option including doing nothing or it's going to be difficult to have a practice. We're known as a coaching program, as the program to go to, if you really want to learn how to differentiate yourself and answer that question. I think that having the sales training in a good network marketing company, from what I understand from you, I've never really had this. But, from what I understand from you, the sales training you get in a good network marketing company is about the strongest there is. It's a hard sell to get people to buy a product and pay for it every month and keep using it.

David: Right. [0:29:12] Glenn: If you think about it, what are you doing when you're selling coaching? You're getting

people to buy a service, pay for it every month, and keep using it. Very, very similar situation.

Could you just, kind of, go over the specifics a little bit more? How much of a risk do people really need to take financially? How much time do they have to risk? Let's go back to Joan Q life coach who might want to make an extra $5000 dollars a month. What would that actually take to do that realistically?

David: Yeah, it depends on the compensation plan. They're all different. There's binaries,

breakaways, matrix, unilaterals. There's people listing in different programs, and looking at programs, or heard of programs. Number one, they just have to go back to the company and ask, "How would I make $5000 a month?" Probably ask multiple people and listen very carefully. If there are conflicting stuffs, the company is not a scam. It's just that there's more than one way to skin a cat. People are trying to estimate and model it out.

For me, it's just a matter of being consistent, talking to X number of people about the products, getting on the products yourself. If you need to lose weight, lose weight. Talk to two, three people a day. Then, out of that, certain percentage want to try the product, certain percentage stay on the product, certain percentage want to become a distributor, certain percentage become good distributors, a small percent becomes superstar distributors. Then, your income starts to grow. It's, quite frankly, a little hard to predict because things happen out of the blue. In the company I'm in, I wind up getting a guy, he didn't really do much for a long time. His wife got really excited about the product. Then, now all of a sudden, he's doing a lot of stuff with the product. He's doing a radio show. He loves doing meetings and the seminars on weight loss and all these stuff. I couldn't really predict that but I am certain to predict that this guy will generate a significant amount of sales revenue. But I couldn't predict that other than just talking to a lot of people. Then, some guy like that theoretically should emerge. It's tough. I have a friend that sells RV. He knows that he makes X number per RV. He reasonably knows that he's going to get this many leads. If he closes this percent, he'll know how to make -- his goal is $4000 a month. It's a little bit different. There are so

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many people involved and people are variable. Good things can happen without modeling it out. That's why it's a little bit tough. That's the honest answer.

[0:31:37] Anybody who said they shouldn't guarantee any earnings in network marketing because it's not legal, but it's hard to spell it out specifically. It's not that people are being evasive. It's hard to know who's going to do what, where. I mean, I have actually found people who lost a lot of weight and did nothing. I found people who lost 11 pounds, got really excited about that, and really took off. I would've thought it would have been the reverse.

Glenn: You really do have to do the numbers. Maybe, like, a minimum threshold of time, energy

that you should put i to this. David: Everybody should put in at least 10 hours of productive time of marketing and talking to

people. What I mean by that, 10 hours a week, that's a week, of talking to people about the product and services or the business. Also, one to two hours a week of the marketing part. The marketing part is looking for additional groups, doing stuff on Facebook, expanding your Facebook friends. Maybe, looking for places to advertise locally. The marketing part is the part of network marketing that people forget about. What do you do to expand the number of people you can talk to? People fall down on that. Eventually, they run out of people to talk to. It's very similar to coaching where your coaches, I'm sure you're telling them they have to figure out a way to generate new potential business, consistently do that.

Glenn: The most frequent numbers of session is one for coaching clients. After that, the

average is about seven. A very small percentage of that, maybe 15% or 20%, stay ongoingly. In order to get to that 15% or 20%, you can build a whole practice out of that relatively quickly if you're continually going out and doing workshops, exposing your presentation, and actually coaching people on the spot. You can build a whole practice relatively quickly by doing that. But you do have to constantly bring in those new people to make that happen.

David: Exactly. Not to get too complicated, but me, I learned it's great to have -- for a coach,

they are exposed to people coaching. A certain percentage might not be interested in network marketing.

Full disclosure; I buy a lot of products and services from network marketing company. I get my energy from network marketing companies. I get legal services from network marketing companies. I'm just a customer. In a couple of them, I'm actually a distributor but I don't do anything of it. I just want to get a discount. In legal services, which I am not a distributor, no way in shape or form, there's a legal services company. I think that service is great.

[0:33:59] One of the things a lot of successful people do is they're in insurance. They do presentations on insurance. They also, kind of their back end or their cross sell, is legal services. They got another thing. I was talking to guy. He said, "You know, I just realized

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that I got this pool of people who might be interested." He's like, "You know, you will be able to build up an income of $900 a month residually for two years. That's great." That's $900 more a month than he would have. He's just doing some things he's already doing anyway. You can combine a lot of things. I think, for coaches, some of your coaches, like network marketing would be a good fit. Let's say that you have a coach who is coaching women on how to get married. They might be affiliated with a skincare company. That would seem like it made sense to me. That's something you'd have to think through but does that make sense?

Glenn: It does make sense. Sure, sure, I got you. I guess, it's probably what you said, just

because I've been exposed to so many people who didn't make money that I'm still left with this underlying skepticism. But, I trust you inherently. I mean, that's the reason that I bought a distributorship. I actually, kind of, just use some of the products. I haven't really been selling anything. But, I don't know. I'm still kind of skeptical. I feel a little protective but I trust you. I trust that if people called you, if they weren’t right for it or if you felt like they weren’t up for the risks or that it was going to be overwhelming to them, I trust that you would tell them that, that wasn't the case. Not that it wasn't the case, that it wasn't for them.

David: I do that a lot, actually. Yeah, I do get that a lot. Glenn: Because there are a lot of people that it's not for, right? David: Absolutely. Most products and services are for 90% of the population just across the

board. Like, 90% of the population can use legal services; 90% of the population can use skincare; 90% of the population lose weight, maybe, not 90%, but, you know, it's high. The business, to a lot of people, it's just not for them. They don’t have time. They don’t have the desire. I'm very honest with people. The industry, general rule, they just, it's a kindred spirit so they kind of don’t reject people. I reject a lot more people than the industry does.

Glenn: I would imagine that there are a lot of people who think it's for them, that it's really not for

them, right? David: Right, exactly. [0:36:01] Glenn: You could help people to figure that out, too? David: To me, if you come in, you buy a product, you buy distributor kit for, yeah. Distributor kit

worldwide are $30 -- it's $20 to $80 worldwide in virtually every company. It doesn't matter what it is. Those are normally non-refundable. If you buy a distributor kit, you get some products, you refund the products, what are you out? It's so little, the thin line, to caution people. Hey, if you're going to trying to sell, then don't come in, how to make money and then don't really do anything, get all upset and run around post things on Facebook that network marketing's a scam, blah blah blah. That's the only part that annoys.

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But, for Google, it's such a low risk. It's like being an affiliate for Amazon. Everybody was an affiliate for Amazon. It was free. It was like, well, If I sell one thing a year, who cares?

Years ago, Amazon was building their affiliate program. Everyone's an affiliate. But nobody got mad at Amazon when they didn't get their $5000 check, that they knew they weren't going to get.

Glenn: Right. Because nobody was telling them to go spend $5000 developing a website and

$20,000 in advertising. David: Right. Glenn: Right? That's what I would caution people about. Whatever you do, don't jump into the

game and spend a fortune on some big website and advertising system. Talk to David, he'll steer you right.

David: I felt that a lot of people in other companies, I mean I have a lot of friends in other

companies ask for advice. If anybody ever wants to talk or even an evaluation of company, I always do because I have a business that helps hedge funds and private equity funds. That's the network marketing company. I'm good at evaluating companies even from an investment standpoint. Or, even time, energy or money. I'd be more than happy to give my phone number out. If anybody has any questions or says, "Hey, what do you think about this?" No problem at all.

Glenn: Cool. David: I do that all the time. Glenn: Okay. We'll set up a page for them to go to just so we can track and in case it becomes

too voluminous that we can cut it down for you. Because, you [0:37:52]

know, this is going into the blog. We're going to be spending a lot of money in advertising. I don't want you to get overwhelm with that. We'll add that right after we're done recording. Is there anything else that you wanted to tell people about or anything else you think that I was unfair to you about?

David: No, no. I just think that people who don't do well in the industry, there's some personal

responsibility. I think the reason why you're skeptical is you just heard of a lot of sad stories. I'll give you an example. You know how in real estate, so many people lost their shirt in the real estate. I mean, just tons of people. I saw a guy on Yahoo! Finance who said that real estate is the biggest scam that ever existed, ever. Home ownership, he said is the biggest scam that ever existed, ever.

You went through all the numbers on how, you know, you're told one thing with a house. Then, it's a different thing. You're told it's the American dream. It's going to be all this greatness. Then, property taxes, all this bait and switch stuff. He said, people accepted it, in his mind, this is an economist type business person. When I heard that, I thought to myself, you know, no one runs around and it’s just like, real estate is a scam. Have you ever heard real estate is a scam?

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Glenn: No, no. David: Or home ownership is a scam? You just don’t hear that. These are people who have lost

a ton of money in real estate, like, way under water. Do you know any of those people? Glenn: I'm one of them. David: Yeah. You know, on your blog thing, the government should shut down home sales. Glenn: I bought my house. It was $150,000 more than its worth now, so, yeah. David: You're not running around. But, it's weird in networking. I meet people and they lost, in

their mind, $433. But, they got products, they could've refunded them, they got products. They're, like, network marketing is a scam. I got burned in network marketing. It's only network marketing that I hear, "I got burned in network marketing." I don't hear, "I got burned in the stock market. I got burned in real estate." It's only network marketing. It's always such a low dollar amount, it boggles my mind. It's just makes me scratch my head.

It's almost like they should do a psychological study of all the people that say that to understand, do they get burned in anything else and why don't

[0:39:53] they say that other thing is so bad. I really don't understand it. But, those people go and spread throughout society a lot of negative things. In your mind, that's why you're very negative towards network marketing for a good reason because if you hear a lot of bad things about something, you should be negative towards it.

Glenn: Right. Cool. Okay, well, David, thank you so much for doing this. Thank you for making

yourself available to people who might be interested and have some questions. I know you can give them some free information about your company and that kind of thing. So, thank you. Hopefully, you'd be willing do this again.

David: No problem. Thank you. [0:40:26]

FULL DISCLOSURE: I talk to a LOT of coaches exploring Multilevel Marketing as a supplemental income

source while they’re building a practice. As you’ll see in the interview, I’m pretty skeptical about MLM for

coaches because most don’t seem to have a realistic understanding of just how many contacts it takes to

generate a monthly income they can live on.

That said—as David points out—a systematic, risk-managed plan in a solid company can provide a significant

opportunity most people can’t find elsewhere. And MLM can help coaches develop many of the persuasive and

interpersonal skills required to build a successful coaching practice.

Still, despite my trust in David, despite knowing and believing he’s made millions in MLM, and despite the fact it

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might make sense for me to own a distributorship in his company because of the thousands of opportunities my

automated systems generate…

I ONLY think MLM makes sense for coaches who really know what’s it takes up front, and are going into it with a

willingness to do it. On a practical basis, this means developing a SYSTEM for generating leads beyond friends

and family, and committing to talking to at least two or three people a day for at least a year. (Read the

transcript for David’s specific advice on how to do this)

IMPORTANT: It also very rarely involves PAID advertising online unless and until you've got enough success

and surplus income to risk... usually years down the line. Finally, it’s essential to rigorously evaluate a company

before you join so you know you’re building on solid ground.

Long story short… I do NOT think MLM is for you as a coach unless (1) you understand you’ll need to talk to a

few new people every day for at least a year or two in order to create an income you can live on; (2) you’re

willing to approach it systematically to find people beyond your personal friends and family; (3) you carefully

evaluate any company you’re considering according to David’s advice (he's the high paid consultant large hedge

fund managers go to when they’re trying to decide whether to invest in a particular MLM company); (4) you're

very careful about how you mix it into your coaching and coach marketing, etc... because it can be--and often is-

-a turn off to prospective clients.

I initially hesitated to do this interview because I've heard a lot of stories of people who just lost a bunch of

money... and I feel it's my job to protect coaches from this. But all things considered, since SO many coaches

seem to be exploring MLM as a supplement, I wanted you to hear from an expert I trusted. David is a long term

friend who allowed me to voice my skepticism in full and addressed every last point. I think anyone and

everyone who's considering MLM in any way, shape, or form should have the benefit of this dialog.

To speak with David for FREE about whether you are well suited for MLM (or any particular opportunity you are considering) please submit the form at:

www.TheMLMSecret.com

David reserves the right to withdraw this free consultation offer at any time if he either becomes overwhelmed with calls and/or finds there are too many “tire kickers” calling with casual inquires. Therefore, if the consultation form is available on www.TheMLMSecret.com and you’re serious about evaluating this opportunity, now is the time to use it. (But if you’re pretty sure it’s not for you, I’d respectfully request you don’t bother him)

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THE PROBLEM WITH MLM FOR COACHES: Why So Many Coaches Feel Burned by MLM (And What to Do About It if You Don’t Want to Be One of Them!)

An Interview with David and Glenn

(This is a Transcript of a Free Full Length Audio Available for Download Below) http://www.coachcertificationacademy.com/TheBlog/the-problem-with-mlm-for-coaches

NOTE: To speak with David about whether you are well suited for MLM (or any particular opportunity you are considering) please submit the form at:

www.TheMLMSecret.com

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