The Harpur Jazz Ensemble

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    The Harpur Jazz Ensemble: An in-depth study

    Joey Lieber

    Mus 304Professor Burns

    30 November 2010

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    I think any involvement in arts education expands anybody's capacity to understand how the world works. You develop skills that you don't normally necessarily always develop as just an academic - not that theres anything wrong with that I just think that you have a broader

    spectrum of understanding of group work, leadership skills... you develop different kinds of relationships through being a jazz musician. Communication, working with different varieties

    of people, bringing people together, trying to get everybody to have a shared picture of what you have in mind for a tune... or a director trying to get across various skill levels and skill setswith a band so that it performs at a musical level that's not only just entertaining, but exciting and intrinsically beneficial to everybody thats in the band 1

    - Mike Carbone, Director of the Harpur Jazz Ensemble

    Introduction to the Harper Jazz Ensemble

    When Al Hamme, a young saxophonist from York Pennsylvania, formed the

    SUNY Binghamton Harpur Jazz ensemble in 1964, he did so with the goal to bring

    Americas indigenous art forminto the educational system so the music could thrive

    and contribute to both the campus, and the surrounding Binghamton community. 2 SUNY

    Binghamton was barely 20 years old at the time, and the entire music department

    consisted of just 5 members.

    At first, the jazz program was just a few small innocuous student combos, gaining

    members by advertising in the school paper for individuals possibly interested in playing

    jazz. The community responded, although interestingly enough they came with French

    horns, clarinets, vibraphones, and various odd instruments one would not typically

    associate with a jazz group. Nevertheless, Al Hamme pushed forwards and obtainedenough students to finally create the first Harpur Jazz Ensemble in 1968. 3

    Not someone to be satisfied with just adequate circumstances, Al pushed for more.

    He called up local professionals in the area and asked if they would sit in with the

    students. For the next few years the ensemble played a variety of Big Band charts and

    perfected their sound with the pros, until in 1978 when he made the decision to make the

    band students only. This was the moment when the fuse was lit, and the Harpur Jazz

    ensemble took flight. The journey of the Harpur Jazz Ensemble was underway, and years

    of progress and development were soon to come.

    The Harpur Jazz Ensemble has developed significantly since 1964. Multiple band

    leaders have graced the helm of the ensemble, the current one in 2010 being Mike

    1 Carbone, Mike, interview by Joey Lieber. November 22, 2010. See Appendix A for transcription of this interview

    2 Hamme, Al. interview by Joey Lieber. November 12, 2010 . See transcription B for transcription of this interview

    3 Hamme, Al. interview by Joey Lieber. November 17, 2010

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    Carbone, and a countless variety of talented students have graced the stage of this

    dynamic ensemble.

    Introduction to General Topics of this Research

    In order to delve deeper into the different themes and processes that exist in the

    development of the Harpur Jazz Ensemble, there are a few questions which need to be

    addressed. For one, how does the Harpus Jazz Ensembles growth compare and relate to

    the development of jazz education over the years? Within that time, what does the music

    of an ensemble of this magnitude involve, specifically in terms of its setting, sound, and

    significance, and how does one describe the intrumentation, composition techniques, and

    perfomance styles used?4

    Discussed within this research will also be the benefits that the students glean

    from participating in the Harpur Jazz Ensemble, and how the lives of Al Hamme and

    Mike Carbone are relevant and influential in the growth and development of the Harpur

    Jazz ensemble

    History of Jazz Education in the U.S

    When technology was less advanced, and jazz in the United States was roaring in

    its beginnings in the 20's, the jazz vocabulary was typically imparted from mentor to

    pupil, or forged through trial and error. 5 Most learning was done on the bandstand, not

    in the classroom. The general consensus was that one should learn like the masters did,

    by listening to one another's ideas and motives, while learning through repetition, call and

    response, and experience. As time progressed however, and the 30's and 40's came

    underway, a movement began towards the possible union between jazz music andacademia. Publications began coming out in the 1930's for musicians and students to get

    a hold of more harmonic and theoretical materials. Programs like the University of North

    4 Shelemay, Kay Kaufman, Soundscapes: Exploring Music in a Changing World (NewYork: WW NortonPublishing, 2006), xxxvi

    5 Nate, Chinen. Jazz is Alive and Well. In the classroom, anyway. New York Times . Jan 7, 2007.(accessed November 16, 2010), 2.

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    Texas and Berklee came into works, paving the way for both colleges and high schools in

    the late 1940's.

    Through the 50's, 60's, and 70's, more big band arrangements were widely

    published as jazz continued to grow in the academic world. It is no coincidence that this

    is when the SUNY Binghamton Harpur Jazz Ensemble was put into place by Al Hamme

    during this academic jazz boom:

    Through the works of certain scholars and press writers from the mid-1940 throughthe late 1950's, jazz scholarship began garnering respect. One distinctive aspect of this wasthe intellectualization of jazz. It was realized that jazz possessed its own treatment of melodic material, harmonic movement, rhythm, and form. Cognizant of this, scholarsformalized the study of jazz based on its unique system of organization and musicalconventions. 6

    In conjunction with efforts of the jazz world to become more accessible, different

    branches of jazz vocabularies developed that could be grasped by people with different

    tastes. At the start of the 2 nd World War, Be Bop was developed a more complex

    harmonic and rhythmic improvisational music language based mostly off innovations of

    famous players like Charlie Parker, whose lyrical melodic lines on the saxophone heavily

    influenced the phrases within this language .7

    In the 1950's there came another style called modal jazz. This chromatic,

    motivically developed style was advertised and utilized by players like Miles Davis, John

    Coltrane, and Herbie Hancock to name a few. 8 A more free form style, this was another

    aide in creating possible avenues for students to grasp and take under their wing, using

    whatever materials and recordings were available to imitate these styles.

    Riding the wave that surged in the 50's, the 60's brought along one of the most

    groundbreaking moments in jazz education history. Saxophonist Jamey Aebersold

    created a series called How to Play Jazz. 9 This was a tool for young adults to learn

    how to play jazz a set of play along tracks for a soloist to practice their skills and

    vocabulary upon. Countless tunes were made into play along tracks, and students all over the United States were using these to practice scales, theory, creative ideas, chordal ideas,

    and other elements of jazz expression.

    6 Prouty, E. Kenneth, The History of jazz education: A critical assesment Journal of Historical Research in Music Education (2005), pg 92

    7 Prouty (2005), pg 948 Prouty (2005), pg 969 Chinen, Nate. Jazz is Alive and Well. In the classroom, anyway. New York Times . (2007)

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    The creation of these tracks has since led to the possibility for students of all ages

    to begin to approach jazz. High schools and their big bands have increased in numbers

    and are still present in todays academic world, giving a venue for those who wish to

    continue studying jazz in their college years after their high school experience.

    Professional jazz musicians came on board to help as well in the 60's and 70's, replacing

    the initial more academic professors leading the jazz education revolution. Performers

    began to attach themselves to various institutions to share their craft, bringing their

    domestic and international touring experience along with them, as well as the lessons

    they learned from the relationships they had created in their growth as working

    musicians:

    One should take note, that it is true one can interpret jazz as having been a aural

    tradition, and one that exists within performances and the relationships with other

    performers and their given vocabularies. In this sense, academic programs like the

    Harpur Jazz Ensemble cannot fully take the place of the learning that exists within

    performing out on the road.

    Academic institutions can however assist in a jazz musicians growth and practice

    curriculum, giving chances to perform under supervision of experienced teachers who

    can give valuable feedback. Schools also provide big band and other ensembles that are

    difficult to obtain when not in school. A safe haven for a young artist who does not need

    to support himself financially while in school, and an organized environment, an

    academic institution like the Harpur Jazz Ensemble can be a positive motivator for

    growth and progress.

    Setting, Sound, Significance, and other Music details of the Ensemble

    Setting:

    The Harpur Jazz ensemble performs several times a year in various locations on

    the SUNY Binghamton campus. They play once in the student union building, and

    depending on the time of year, and what the university has planned, they do themed

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    performances as well. An example would be Mardi Gras where the band playa Dixieland

    oriented big band charts. The band has played in prior years off campus as well, playing

    the stages of restaurants like the On Q, (which unfortunately has since closed down), as

    well as the Union Health Services center at the train station near downtown

    Binghamton. 10 Various events like ballroom dance competitions, jazz themed cocktail

    hours for faculty, and other showcases of the ensemble has given opportunities for the

    Harpur Jazz members to perform their best works.

    The audiences typically consist of both locals from the off-campus community, as

    well as on campus students. Concert attendance ranges anywhere from 600 to 900

    students, depending on the weather and the day of the week. The ratio of students to

    locals also depends on the schedule of both demographics there are sometimes multipleevents scheduled for locals in town that conflict with the Harpur Jazz Ensemble shows, or

    similarly exams are scheduled for students that cause them to miss out on their peer's

    performances.

    Performances typically last 2 hours, although times vary depending on the event.

    The performers physical positioning also changes likewise. For bigger events, usually

    they perform on a stage, and some of the band members are put on risers, organized in

    instrumental groupings. The director usually stands in front to conduct the ensemble.

    Microphones are typically used for every section, and when certain members take solos

    they usually stand up in front of the section's microphone in order to be clearly heard and

    recognized.

    Each performer wears an outfit depending on the type of performance. If more

    casual, men will where a sports coat and jeans girls a nice dress, usually of darker

    colors. For more upscale events suits with a nice tie, with strict no-jeans policies, and

    dark dresses are typical of these stage-oriented performances.

    Instrumentation:

    Every semester the band auditions (or re-auditions if you are a returning member

    trying out again) for the band director, who again currently is Mike Carbone, since Al

    10 Carbone, Mike, interview by Joey Lieber. November 22, 2010.

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    Hamme retired in 1997. When speaking of the instruments being auditioned, the

    ensemble director looks for 5 saxophone players, 4 or 5 trumpets, and 4 or 5 trombones.

    Occasionally 6 trumpets will be accepted simply because the Harpur Jazz Ensemble does

    not consist of only music majors, and some of the materials played by the ensemble are

    extremely difficult for brass and may be too challenging. The director therefore prefers

    to rotate players in and out of lead parts in the sections to save their lip endurance.

    Typically if there are guest artists playing with the group, they bring challenging

    professional level charts that are difficult for brass players hence the reason for often

    having 5 or 6 trumpet players in the ensemble. 11

    Usually there is only one rhythm section, consisting of drums, bass, sometimes

    guitar, and piano. Occasionally Mike Carbone enlists two rhythm sections simply due tothere being enough talented players to fill these spots, and to give other members breaks

    so as to not have to learn too much material. Depending on the number of students

    auditioning, many have been rejected, specifically from guitar and saxophone spots. The

    trumpet and trombone spots are less likely to be refused from the ensemble due to lack of

    players available due to the level of skill needed to play the instrument.

    Aside from the instruments mentioned, anywhere from 2 to 3 vocalists are

    accepted a semester depending on availability, and other eclectic instruments such as the

    flute, clarinet, and French horn have often been allowed to enter the ensemble as well

    despite there not being what one may consider the mainstream of jazz instruments .12

    In order to enter the ensemble, there are specific skills required from those

    auditioning. The ability to read music is crucial. Improvisation is an added facet;

    however it isn't a must-have in terms of getting into the ensemble, unless the student is

    attempting to get one of the leading positions in the band. Typically the pianists, lead

    tenor saxophonists, lead trombonists, and guitar players are the stronger improvisers.The second tenors and other brass players do not require the same level of improvisation

    as the rhythm section members do, however to be able to read the big band charts, and

    being eager to adapt to different styles of music is key to for them to be successful in the

    11 Carbone, Mike, interview by Joey Lieber. November 22, 2010.12 Carbone, Mike, interview by Joey Lieber. November 22, 2010.

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    audition. This eagerness is key, as is enjoying the process of learning the tunes at hand if

    they are accepted into the ensemble, whether it be old swing, Latin, salsa, or

    contemporary jazz to name a few.

    Most of the music the Harpur Jazz ensemble plays is meant to accompany

    dancers, whether or not there are any present during performances. The rhythms are

    tailored to different forms of dance, whether Latin, swing, funk, or contemporary jazz.

    Each style has different types of features. Latin styles have more piano features, where as

    the swing and funk arrangements feature the more piercing sound of the lead-oriented

    saxophone.

    Every big band chart contains different subtleties that challenge the performers insome way. The big band charts are picked typically in terms of what the brass is capable

    of playing in their upper range. The rhythm section skill is also examined, since some

    chord arrangements can be fairly complicated, where as the saxophones typically are able

    to, considering they made it into the ensemble, read the rhythms and notes required

    regardless of level.

    The ensemble students enjoy the music they play, and the Harpur Jazz ensemble

    always turns out to be a close knit group of people opposed to a very competitive

    thing. 13 Dean Papadopoulos, a Junior Accounting / MIS Major from Setauket, NY, and

    the lead tenor saxophone player for the Harpur Jazz Ensemble, comments eloquently in

    an excerpt from his interview:

    There also comes the point where one recognizes that this ensemble is mostly not musicmajors. There are students like myself who can achieve good grades and practice a lot, while othersare stuck with crazy workloads of other majors and academic skills that do now allot lots of time topractice. With this in mind comes the idea that someone like myself would never cut it in anensemble with a lot of music majors. The fact that it is not that strong in essence gives thosepassionate musicians the ability to play at a level they want while still being able to include them ingroups. This is something that cannot be undervalued because at any school with an extremely strongmusic program I would not be playing sax nor would I have made the friends and connections I havetoday with individuals who share the same passions as I do. That is an experience that cannot berecreated anywhere else due to the intrinsic nature of music. There are very few people in the worldin which you can have a conversation about how awesome Chris Potter is on his Live from theVillage Vanguard recording, or how Michael Brecker transcends every level of sax playing that everwas. That is what makes this program special to those in it 14

    13 Carbone, Mike, interview by Joey Lieber. November 22, 2010.14 Papadopolous, Dean interview by Joey Lieber. November 22, 2010. See Appendix C for transcription

    of this interview

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    Learning Opportunities in the Harpur Jazz Ensemble

    Leadership, communication, musical development and social development, and

    risk taking are some of the main attributes gained by those who have participated in the

    Harpur Jazz Ensemble. The students learn to improvise, work with one another on

    different big band charts, and maintain strength as a cohesive unit; they build on these

    facets through their interpretation of the music and the other musicians.

    Improvisation is one of the key elements that make jazz the freedom-based

    musical genre it has grown into today. The lead players in the Harpur Jazz Ensemble, as

    well as those in the improvisation classes taught my Mike Carbone, spend a significant portion of their time learning how to improvise melodic lines over different chord

    changes and rhythmic patterns. They constantly have to work on responses to the

    changing conditions in the music while remaining creative and constantly in sync with

    the other performers. The students learn and practice a variety of scales and chordal

    concepts in order to develop a vocabulary and build upon the language that is jazz

    improvisational music. The patterns and phrases learned are prepared along with the

    student's generic instrument-based practice routine necessary to both maintain and build

    upon their technical abilities. Preparation or the development of personal individual

    capacity for leadership is important due to its inclusion of breaking complex tasks or

    ideas into smaller parts...a metacognitive skill that allows patterns to immerge 15 This

    skill of pattern recognition and development is crucial and applicable to both music, and

    the lives of the students as a whole. Students are able through their practice and

    preparation to notice different nuances and changes that eventually contribute to a bigger

    picture. Dean Papadapolous comments again in regards to this concept and how it has

    reflected in his academic life:I can't go into a finance exam saying to myself that I spent hours doing practice problems to

    only get one correct. I can't go into an interview believing that great responses will just magicallyflow out of my mouth. You have to have goals and in order to reach them you have to put in the time;there is no shortcut for success. If I have trouble with something musically it's obvious I'll hit thepractice rooms and work it out until I'm confident it won't give me problems anymore. I use thissame principle with any other discipline because you'll never truly succeed or understand what

    15 Newton, Paul . "Leadership lessons from jazz improvisation." International Journal of Leadership in Education 7 ( 2004): 83-99.

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    accessible to students and not just music majors. He wanted to create an undergraduate

    degree that didn't require a student to become a music major. He mentions that some key

    musicians have come through the program who were not music majors Tony Kadleck ,

    Sherrie Maricle, and Pat Hollenbeck to name a few.

    Hamme feels that jazz is an essential part of Americas history, and a beneficial to

    students due to the skills they can develop:

    The whole idea of the fact of being able to understand form, and harmonic structure, beingable to play in a rhythm, no matter what the background is, being able to play in that rhythmwhether 4/4, , 6/8, etc but still do it so that it swings or doesn't swing as far as Latin is concerned

    Hamme spent much of his time networking with jazz educators and performers all

    over the Binghamton area, as well as the United States as a whole. He was able to hire

    some people in residence to teach various instruments to members of the ensemble. In

    addition he taught jazz history, and jazz orchestration making his one-man-band job

    even more of an influential part of the jazz program. In essence, Al Hamme was the jazz

    program. Perhaps the most incredible part of his efforts was that he would bring in

    various musicians to do clinics, all with money out of his own pocket. He was able to

    write it off on his income tax, and would donate money to the foundation earmarked to

    come back to the jazz program so I could pay for the concerts.

    Al Hamme became well known all around the state, adjudicating at many jazzfestivals, including the New York State Summer School of the Arts program. He created

    in 1992 a program called Jazz at Harpur which he did for the public schools, in which

    him and his colleagues gave graduate credits for those already in possession of a

    bachelors degree.

    Hamme seemed disappointed however when stating that these programs are no

    longer intact that there is no summer program, and no program reaching out for people

    to come to Binghamton for the music program, which starkly contrasts with his previous

    efforts before retirement of making an effort to go out and audition students for the

    ensemble.

    The main issue iterated by Hamme in terms of the arts was Budget:

    Budget is the problem of everything that goes on in college today. Arts departments take

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    the wrap because as sciences grow, as mathematics grow, as they come in with new PHD's who get alot of research money from the government or other activities, and they create new programs thatthey have, the arts take a hit. 18

    He continued in a despaired voice that when he was originally chair, he had 4musicologists, 3 theorists, a composer in residence, a string quartet in residence, a

    woodwind quartet in residence, plus 40 adjunct people to teach things like guitar,

    recorder, those kinds of instruments Al Hamme therefore had a staff of around 50

    faculty at the time. The music department now in 2010 has 4 full time people. 19

    Aside from low staffing, the other issue Hamme harped on was that there were too

    many instances when events on campus conflicted and competed with events going on

    downtown. He believes we are stretching ourselves too thin because we have so many

    groups having performances, and because of this over clogged schedule there is rarely a

    packed audience for a specific show. There is still a passable attendance however, with

    just enough money to get by, but it's a close call.

    Most pressing however, which seemed to be a theme Al Hamme continuously

    came back to, was staffing. Knowing almost 95 percent of the jazz musicians who are

    operating today, Al Hamme has made himself available to get to know a plethora of jazz

    professionals in some shape or form. He clarifies however, that his connectivity can only

    be achieved by a full time faculty member, not an adjunct member. Despite theBinghamton program still being strong in performance, it is still weak in terms of

    bringing people into the program and giving them a basic education.

    Al Hamme's statements are important not only due to their factual relevance and

    precision, but also because of where they are coming from. These statements are coming

    from the man who started touring with bands when he was 13 years old, showed up in

    Ithaca at 2 oclock in the morning with a saxophone and a suitcase, and said I'm going to

    spend my life as a musician. He graduated from Ithaca, got his music education degree

    in 3 years, and starting teaching right away. Not once did he look back and doubt his

    direction, his ambition, or his goals. He was determined as a performer and as an

    academic as well to provide for the community a true link into the jazz world he was so

    passionate about. He exemplifies what it means to be that mentor who believes in the

    18 Hamme, Al. Interview by Joey Lieber. November 17, 201019 Hamme, Al. Interview by Joey Lieber. Noevember 17, 2010

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    potential of his students, and the goals they can achieve while committing to a musical

    part of Americas history

    The important thing is to have students involved in this because the students who come hereare bright and they're going to be successful. I don't know a student who has left here who is notsuccessful today they all find jobs, and they become the members of the boards of the banks, of themajor organizations they become important and they become facilitators for jazz to continue. 20

    Mike Carbone Contributions / opinions

    Mike Carbone's is another example of an individual who, like Al Hamme, has

    taken his career experience and plunged into the Harpur Jazz Ensemble with a plethora of

    ideas, lessons, and techniques. He firmly believes that through studying the arts, one can

    develop a broader capacity of how the world works, and the skills that can come out of studying jazz for students (refer to the quote heading this report.) Along those lines he

    feels that the jazz ensemble is always about playing as a cohesive unit, not as individual

    shining stars, and emphasizes sectionals and group work to create a unified sound.

    Every leader of a section needs to develop that relationship (of unity) with the

    players, and the only way to do that is to work out various intricacies with the group 21

    Mike Carbone is in a similar mindset as Al Hamme in his thoughts on adjunct vs

    permanent teachers. He is clearly disappointed that we don't have the same budget as

    when Al Hamme was at the helm, and with that lack of funds there is not as much of a

    dedication to having a full time staff member for the jazz program. With this sort of

    adjustment, one could make pretty dramatic adjustments to the jazz program, including

    breaking up the band into 2 groups, as well as a 3 rd lab band for individuals who didn't

    make the cut of the ensemble a system which existed when Al Hamme was at

    Binghamton.

    Another point on par with Al Hamme, is that Mike wants a commitment from the

    University to have less conflicts with jazz ensemble rehearsals and concerts:

    Over the past 3 years there has been a noticeable change in the number of courses taught atnight, and again because most of the people in the band are not music majors....a lot of thesecourses...are in direct conflict with the jazz ensemble rehearsal 22

    20 Hamme, Al. interview by Joey Lieber. November 17, 2010.21 Carbone, Mike interview by Joey Lieber. November 22, 201022 Carbone, Mike interview by Joey Lieber. November 22, 2010

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    Mike Carbone brings a mentality of someone who is eager to be a mentor and a

    positive force in the development of the Harpur Jazz Ensemble, and is always going the

    extra mile to bring out the best of their talent. He spends time working with other

    ensemble directors to trade for music charts that would best fit the ensembles abilities and

    tastes, and makes effort to get the band exposed to other artists. He created a small

    ensemble consisting of the Harpur Jazz Ensemble Rhythm section which has now played

    at an Art Gallery, and the high class Number 5 Restaurant in Binghamton, receiving rave

    reviews in the process. Mike's determination to bring the jazz program to its highest

    level shows not only in his actions, but in the commitment to his curriculum, whether it

    be the jazz history course, jazz improvisation course, or the biggest of them all TheHarpur Jazz Ensemble. Whether asking his students to observe and take notes on local

    working musicians, using Aebersold recordings to demonstrate proper rhythms or

    theoretical ideas for improvisation, or taking out records of old big band's to demonstrate

    proper playing techniques, Mike has shown never ending commitment to the program,

    and a burning desire to continue what Al Hamme created from scratch so many years ago.

    Conclusions / Importance of the Ensemble

    Through the exploration and research of both the members and leaders of the

    Harpur Jazz Ensemble, many significances and developmental conversations have come

    to the surface. The development of the students involved has been highlighted, showing

    how involvement in the program not only is beneficial on a musical level, but also on a

    social and practical one. Empowered by the ensemble leaders, whether Al Hamme in the

    past, or Mike Carbone in the present, the students develop the leadership and social skills

    required to become forces in the academic community, as well as society as a whole. TheHarpur Jazz ensemble provides the campus, and the greater community, with an accurate,

    entertaining, and historically significant part of American culture. The history of the

    ensemble embodies the development of jazz education over the past century, and any

    improvements, whether in staffing, scheduling, or otherwise within the program are ones

    that can be addressed over time. The Harpur Jazz Ensemble provides a vessel for

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    students to accomplish their goals, while at the same time educating both them and those

    who listen to their performances on jazz music, an art form that should certainly not be

    soon forgotten.

    Jazz is a rare and valuable national American treasure to which we should devote ourattention, support, and resources to make certain it is preserved, understood, and promulgated. 23 -United States Congress

    23 Porter, Lewis. "Jazz in American education today." College music symposium (1989) pg 139

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    Bibliography

    Carbone, Mike. Interviewed by Joey Lieber 11/22/2010.Hamme, Al. Interview by Joey Lieber 11/17/2010.

    Papadopolous, Dean. Interview by Joey Lieber 11/22/2010. .

    Shelemay, Kay Kaufman. Soundscapes: Exploring Music in a Changing World NewYork:WW Norton Publishing, 2006.

    Newton, Paul M. 2004. "Leadership lessons from jazz improvisation." International Journal of Leadership in Education 7 ,: 83-99

    Chinen, Nate. Jazz is Alive and Well. In the classroom, anyway. New York Times .(2007)

    Prouty, Kenneth E. "The history of jazz education: A critical assessment." Journal of historical research in music education, (2005) pg 9.

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    APPENDIX A

    Interview with Mike Carbone, band director of the Harpur Jazz Ensemble. Interview11/22 2010 by Joey Lieber, tranrscribed in full below

    Thanks for talking to me mike!

    My pleasure

    So the first question for you is I want to hear about how you initially became involved inthe jazz program here, in terms of both your involvement as a student, as you started

    playing as a student, and has you paved your way to being head of the jazz program.

    Well actually I got my involvement here in the university in the early 80's, like 81, 82. Al

    Hamme who was the director of jazz studies here used to do the New York Summer School of the Arts and then the jazz program here which was a 2 week program whereyou would have guys like joe Lovano, Dick Oats, Michael Moore on bass, Adam

    Neusbam on drums, I mean it was just an incredible group of musicians we would havehere 2 weeks at a time. And through my involvement in doing those summer programsand being in the workshops and then later on being hired as a saxophone instructor for one fo the last camps that was here, I got involved in the university. And then being ateacher in the area, having to get my masters in 5 years, graduating in 1980 from SUNYPotsdam , I started my masters work here in 1983 played in the big band for 5semesters, so 2 and a half years to do my masters because I was teaching full time. AlHamme was not the director of the Hurpur jazz ensemble, even though I was doing

    projects with him because he ran a big band in town called the Music Unlimited Jazzorchestra that was a big band that performed concerts venues in and around and outsideof town. Also here at the university was a band that rehearsed here several Mondaynights a month. Through that involvement I got to play with guys like Bob Mintzer, SlamStewart, John Faddus. Al Hamme was bringing in big names. So having to get mymasters doing as much work as a I could with the jazz program here with Mike Holober who was at the helm here because Al Hamme was on sabbatical for a year, and then alHamme was chairmen of the department which took him away from his jazz duties whichMike Holober.

    I was lucky enough to be here at the right time when there was a lot of thingsgoing on. We got to meet a lot of great players. Then once I finished my masters in

    1985, I graduated in the fall of 1985, I continued close association with Al Hamme playing in music unlimited, being hired for some of the smaller groups of the SwingStreet Septet, octet, nonet, things that we would put together from time to time. Also Iwas very involved through jazz education through my middle school in Johnson City. Inthe high school program our goal was to build the jazz program there when I startedteaching there. It got to the point where my middle school band was doing really well,wed go to many high school competitions, which was before middle school was reallyrecognized as a viable category. We would go and compete and my jazz kids would fair

    point wise so well that point wise that we would score higher than half of the highs

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    school bands that were there. Over the years I moved to teach in the high school, I wasalready teaching at Johnson City, but then I got to work in the high school jazz program.

    You were involved in the jazz program at SUNY Potsdam before this in your undergraduate?

    Yeah

    How was your experience in the jazz program there?

    Well actually I went to Onondaga Community College for 1 year before going to SUNYPotsdam. I was a flute player up to my junior year in high school. I took a lot of abuse asa guy flute player. We had a student teacher who came from Ithaca college one semester and started a jazz ensemble which we did not have. That kind of got me sparked during

    that same semester the Ellington band happened to be playing at the Stanley theater inUtica New York at the same time. Suddenly they showed up at our high school we gotto clinic all afternoon with one of the guys in the band. Then that same year my banddirector who was not a jazzer a trombone player though had a guest artist come inwith a big band Phil Wilson which was kind of my first kick. But that was kind of nota great jazz start but then I went to Onondaga Community College in Syracuse and gotto work with Joe Riposo jazz saxophonist the director of jazz at Syracuse University in1976.

    When I went to Onondaga Community College I played a lot by ear. I worked alot on reading skills and stuff like that, and played with a lot of albums mostly was arock and roll saxophone player. Also I worked with Bill Harris whos a trombone player in the Syracuse area who ran the second big band in Onondaga Community College so Iactually played in 2 big bands. Then I got into Potsdam and worked with Ray Shiner who was a saxophonist who turned me on to Count Basie, Mel Lewis, and all that stuff. Ialso worked with a guy by the name of Tony Maiello who was the wind ensembledirector there who was a jazzer as well. So I just played a lot of catch up taking asmany lessons as I possibly could. And then along with a couple of other guys we hadformed a student big band because we wanted to play even more jazz. For two and a half years I was in two students big bands as well.

    How do you compare the jazz programs at both those schools

    I would say that the BU jazz program is probably on the performance level a little bithigher than the community college, which is a 2 year music school

    why?

    Because It's a lot of guys and girls trying to find their way, figuring out whether or notthey will go to a 4 year music school. Small music school like this. Nowadays - Ihavent heard them in awhile but their program has expanded over the years and has

    become much more involved and my guess is theyre probably on par with us because its

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    a full time music programthe guys and girls in the Harpur jazz ensemble are probably a level 4 or 5 band.

    Occasionally Ive had a level 6 meaning the NYSSMA level, being the highest, which is pretty much college level.

    Is NYSSMA how you measure the level of college bands?

    Not really because level 6 is some of the tougher material. But full university bands are playing the same stuff that the pro bands are playing like the Gordon Goodwin MelLewis charts. You have to have some good musicianship to pull stuff off.

    Are university bands measured at the same level as college bands?

    I don't know if theres a scale. Theres just a certain point where your playing proliterature. Or you have guys in the field writing for your ensemble. Or your

    commissioning works that were written for pro bands and tailored to specificarrangements.

    What was your major in school?

    Music education and saxophone

    Having had studied music education, going along the lines that most people here in the Harper jazz ensemble are not music majors, how do you feel studying jazz benefits someone whos not a music major?

    Well most of the guys and girls in the band are passionate about what they do. Obviouslyit was probably a big part of there high school life. They liked it, and had a goodexperience with that and wanted to continue. I think any involvement in arts educationexpands anybodys capacity to understand how the world works. You develop skills thatyou dont normally necessarily always develop as just an academic - not that theresanything wrong with that I just think that you have a broader spectrum of understandingof group work, leadership skills... you develop different kinds of relationships through

    being a jazz musician. Communication, working with different varieties of people, bringing people together, trying to get everybody to have a shared picture of what youhave in mind for a tune... or a director trying to get across various skill levels and skillsets with a band so that it performs at a musical level thats not only just entertaining, butexciting and intrinsically beneficial to everybody thats in the band.

    How do you feel the Binghamton community has embraced jazz in general in terms of thecampus and the role jazz has had here over the years?

    Well I think theres a lot of support for the jazz program in terms of the local community.Al Hamme really set a high bar in terms of the performance level of the band in terms of a concert every semester, various performances on or off campus which weve tried tocontinue best we can with a limited budget. Back then they had a much larger budgetthan we have now. Thats going to change for us when our endowment kicks in. But

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    support for jazz music has ebbed and flowed over the years. I think right now were kindof back in a high time and I think sometimes when u have lower economics you haveclub owners more willing to tap into that jazz live music thing because it is a little lessexpensive economically, but there is something about jazz music that draws a certain

    clientele out opposed to a rock band or a blues band, which are good for the more finedining establishments or coffee houses that more enjoy the clientele jazz bring in.

    What do you think were some of the major things stopping us from bringing in major artists or having full time jazz educators at Binghamton?

    Well the university has to make a commitment to that. Its been suggested to themthrough various collegiate review committees that the jazz program here has been one of the music departments strengths. Why they havent committed the dollars to a full time

    person is an administrative decision made through the Deans office and the chairmen of the department. But I know that when I came on here al Hamme's position was broken

    up into 4 different instructors. So they hired 4 different adjuncts. I took on the ensemble,the history course, and the improvisation classes which started as one and then expandedto two. Al Hamme taught an arranging course, orchestration course, and saxophonestudio. Since 5 or 6 years ago the orchestration has been done away with. In other wordswe don't have the same budget and theres not a commitment to a full time educator. Frommy own standpoint I pushed for that for a numb of years. One of the things I know they'd

    be looking for in terms of someone who has full time capacity, is someone who's published and working on a doctoral track.

    I think the program could be expanded into 2 main bands, as well as into a lab band for those who don't make it into the main 2 ensembles. That existed back then because Al Hamme was full time he created the program.

    Changing gears, can you tell me quickly just to give a basis for what an ensembleconsists of can you tell me what instruments you look for? What spots you're trying to

    fill?

    The band is auditioned every semester and i'm always looking for 5 sax, 4 or 5 trumpets,4 or 5 trombones. I've had 6 trumpets in the past only because again this is not a full timemusic school, some of the things we do are really labor intensive in terms of the brass

    playing so I like to rotate players in the trombone and trumpet sections because whenyou're playing 30 to 40 minute gigs...and are playing charts of guest artists, its usually all

    pro stuff and the brass players its pretty labor intensive. I usually try to carry 5 and 5 or 5and 6 trumpets. I sometimes carry 2 complete rhythm sections because the interest wasthere and the level of ability was there. There are times I've turned away several guitarist,

    bass, and piano players. I've turned away 10 sax players at times. Very rarely do I turn aa trumpet or trombone player away because the numbers aren't always there. I've takenvocalists up to 2 or 3 vocalists a semester when that's available to us. I've taken onflute players, clarinet players, and occasionally use 1 or 2 french horn players.

    What abilities do you look for in the students when you audition them?

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    Well the ability to read music...improvisation is a desired skill but isn't always necessaryunless you're going for the lead spots in the bands. Or as a piano player, guitarist...etc.Allot of times the guys and girls that audition for those that make it in those spots are the

    better improvisors. To be a second tenor or a number of brass players you don't have to

    have the improv skills, but you have to be able to read music and have a willingness to play and learn various styles from older style to latin and some of the contemporary stuff.Most of the guys and girls in the bands and guest artists are impressed with the work ethic the band has. Everyone likes doing what they're doing, and they're cool peoplewhere as I've had guest artists tell me I've gone to so and so music school where they

    pride themselves on their jazz programs and the students there are less than agreeable interms of you cant really show them anything. Our guys here just eat it up! They like thevibe here

    Why do you think this is so meaningful to those kids?

    I think they enjoy it. And the Harpur jazz ensemble always turns out to be a close knitgroup of people opposed to a very competitive thing. My focus is to get a band that playsas a unit, not ones that competes with one another. There are always players in the bandwho are better or not as good as others in terms of improv but everyone supports eachother. But when we've had someone in the band whos high and mighty because there

    better, then there realtionships don't last long in the band and thats not what im all bout.I've been very blessed and fortunate with guys and girls that are very high level and arevery cool people not unlike yourself. Someone of your stature and level of abilities issignificantly higher than most, and somebody with less than a human spirit could say ahI dont want to do this because these guys arent where I am but its not about that itsabout what you can contribute to the band that gives everyone a great experience.

    How do you select the charts that are being played?

    I usually throw a big band chart medium to medium hard level on the stand and thatswhat we audition on. After auditioning the band I have a good sense of the level of musicwe can play. A lot of the music is generally first picked by what the brass can play interms of there upper rangers especially. And then it goes to the rhythm section. I canalways get a sax section to pony up to the level of ability of the rhythm section, but itshard to get the opposite. If the rhythm section is weak, its tough to do intricate

    professional level charts.Where do you get the charts from?

    We have a significant library here I cant begin to tell you how many charts im willingto guess its in the range of 2000 that al has built up throughout the years, and i'vesupplemented it with charts from guest artists, that i've purchased when the budget isthere. A lot of the charts of the past few years are chart-share that I do with local banddirectors.

    In what context does the band normally play in in terms of the perf opp's on campus?

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    We generally in the spring play one time over in the student union, or somewhere oncampus. Depending on the time of year and the kinds of events that the university has...weve done some mardi gras performances where ill pull a bunch of charts or the big bandthats more dixieland. Or this past semester when we did the swing dance thing. I'd like

    to get the band off campus there used to be places that are no longer in existance thatwould house a big band unlike the Lost Dog which is a little bit small. There was a placecalled On Q I used to take the big band to once a semester. Weve done some events for some of the UHS which is the United Health Services they from time to time will haveevents down at the train station and well just bring the whole band there and play.

    How important do you think sectional work is?

    Sectional work is important because every section has a leader. Every leader of a sectionneeds to develop that relationship with the players. The only way you can develop thatrelationship of unity but leadership. The only way to do that is to work out various

    intricacies with the group. I like to give the guys and girls in the bands say in how theywould like to sound, but if there is no leadership role especially in the sax or trumpetsection it usually is pretty evident in terms of how cohesive a section is or not. You cantell the guys or girls who worked together on a regular basis, it shows.

    What are your personal thoughts in terms of where its going, where it is going, and what could be changed / improved upon?

    One of the things I would like to see happen is the university to make a commitment tohaving academic courses during the day instead of at night. Over the last 3 years therehas been a noticeable change in the number of courses that are taught at night, and again

    because most of the people in the band are not music majors, theyre pre med, pre law,engineering, etc, a lot of these courses are now being taught at night and they are in directconflict with the jazz ensemble rehearsal. I only teach at night because its an adjunctcourse. Traditionally the ensemble even years ago has been on tuesday and thursdaynights, even when Al Hamme was here.

    Do you think its important in terms of keeping jazz alive, for us to be studying jazz here?

    I think jazz education is important. Its a viable study, its a part of american history toignore that is I think negligent in terms of our own antional history and national pride andwhere this country came from. Blues and jazz were an integral part of the whole historyof this country and also the racial history of this country. The troubles that were foughtand advances made for people of color through this music of jazz and how that wasshared with everybody of every color. To create a music that americas own, I mean bluesand jazz came before rock and roll and control, and so it had direct influences on all of those offshoots. I still feel that rap has been strongly influenced by be bop!Rhythmically anyway....

    I'm glad that the harper jazz program is here. I'm very blessed to have been at the helmsince 1997 doing as my best as an adjunct professor, int erms of my time here, to keep the

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    Appendix BInterview with Al Hamme, now retired band director of the Harpur JazzEnsemble. Interview 11/17, 2010 by Joey Lieber, transcribed in full below

    Thanks so much for speaking to me. First I'd like to get started by getting to know youand your background in the jazz community, how you came to start the jazz program in

    Binghamton, and what you're experience has been in jazz in the Binghamton community.

    I was born and raised in York Pennslvania, and my h.s teacher who I respected,graduated from Ithaca college...when I was about 13 or 14, I was on the road with theRichard Mauky orchestra...my dad signed a waver for me to have a guardian..so I was onthe road and I got fired in Iowa..and called my dad and asked what should I do? He saidwell, get a bus to chicago, and I'll have a friend meet you there. So I went to chicago andI saw a guy with a sign that said AL Hamme on it, and this guy turned out to be John

    Chicobe who I knew. John Chicobe was one of the famous trumpet player at this time.This is in the 50's I'm talking about. He had just had an album put out called How ConsWill Travel. This was a play on words because there was a paladine with a tv show at thetime that said How Guns Will Travel and so he was in commision for the Concompany. He was the president of the union in chicago, and later on he went to becomethe trumpet teacher at a big school in Texas a big Jazz school- North texas state.

    I went to chicago and he had a job for me I played on the radio show at that timewhich was called the breakfast club it was a live radio show. I played there for about 6months. I got real ancy as far as I couldn't play nighttime. In chicago if you had adaytime gig, you couldnt play nighttime gigs because they were protecting the unionmembers. I was in this studio at 7:30 in the morning and all that business. I always feltlike there was a guy in the first row with his horn out and his reed wet ready to take my

    place. So I thought about my high school experience, although I didn't really have muchhave an experience because I went there only when I wasn't working. I was one of thosestudents who have a high school diploma, but I got it before they had general educationcredits to get a diploma. So I got it by taking a test when I was home but I got it fromthe high school. Anyway, I decided to go to Ithaca college and in January of that year 57 or 58 I took the bus from chicago to ithaca. I got to ithaca at 2 oclock in themorning and it 20 degrees below zero. I had all my horns in my suitcase, no taxi service,so it was sort of one of those experiences. . So I did 3 and a half years at Ithaca collegeand got a music education degree. During my senior year I auditioned for the Airmenand Note and made the band but then I couldnt passed the physical because I had atopicephasima. That turned me for a spin, so right away I decided to look for a musicspeaking job. One of the job I interviewed for was in endicott NY which is just west of here at the other side of the river. I picked the job I was offered several job that Iauditioned for or interviewd for I took this job because Acton Osline. So I thought about my high school experience, although I didn't really have much havean experience because I went there only when I wasn't working. I was one of thosestudents who have a high school diploma, but I got it before they had general educationcredits to get a diploma. So I got it by taking a test when I was home but I got it fromthe high school. Anyway, I decided to go to Ithaca college and in January of that year 57 or 58 I took the bus from chicago to ithaca. I got to ithaca at 2 oclock in the

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    morning and it 20 degrees below zero. I had all my horns in my suitcase, no taxi service,so it was sort of one of those experiences. So I did 3 and a half years at Ithaca collegeand got a music education degree. During my senior year I auditioned for the Airmenand Note and made the band but then I couldnt passed the physical because I had atopic

    ephasima. So that through me me for a spin, and so I right away I decided to look for amusic teaching job. And one of the jobs I interviewed for was in endicott new york.Which is just west of here, on the other side of the river. And I picked the job I wasoffered several jobs that I auditioned, or interviewed for - but I took this job becauseActon Osling was the chairmen of the department. Acton Osling had written Easy Stepsfor Band which was a method I took when I was in elementary school. So I figured aguy that important in the music education appeal must have a good program. And thatturned out to be a great program. And I taught there from 61until 67. In 1964 I wascontacted by the university to come over for an interview they wanted to start a jazz

    program. And the chairmen of the music deparment was Phil Nelson and the musicdepartment was about 5 members strong at that point. I came in at 1964 and started the

    jazz program. At first it was just combos, we just advertised in school paper as anyonewho wanted to play jazz. So I wrote all the arrangements, I had weird instrumentations,french horns, clarinets, vibraphones, and not anything youd think of as being a big band.And in 1968 I finally got enough students that I had the nucleur sort of big band, so then Iasked other musicians in the area who were either profesional musicians or who played

    professionally, if they would like to form a big band. And yes they did, so from 1968until around 1973 or 74 it was a town gown band. It was still called the Harper Jazzensemble, you know the background of ahrper college? No? Harper college is the undragschool school of arts and sciences and thats what the school was called in those days

    it was not the state university of new york or suny binghamton or binghamtonuniversity, all those names it was called Harper college. And thats what was here wasan undergraduate school there was no graduate school at the time.. And so we startedgetting some talented students from the new york city area and umm So I decided in 73that we would no longer have town people play with us that they would be a student

    band with some faculty help and Bob Pompei was one of the people who helped us out, professor of physics, who just recently retired and last year at the spring concert he andhis wife karen came in and announced the fact that they were going to give 100,000dollars to the jazz program here at the university. So sewing those seeds back then,letting him come into the band and so on and so forth, paid of all these years later

    because now the Jazz ensemble has 100,000 dollar budget. It probably will be investedand theyll get the interest off but I don't know those details. So I was the founder of theharper jazz ensemble, and I directed it for almost 37 years. I had 5 years when I didntserve because I was chairmen of the department for five years. And I had 2 differentsebatacles that I didn't serve as director. A local trombonist who is now living in the LAarea whos name Garrity took over for my first sebatacle. And on the second sebatacle Ihad a graduate student here by the name of Dave hedberg who later on went to texas who after he graduated here he went to --- community college, hes now retired and livingin the chicago area. He was very succesful in the program there. And then when I

    became chairmen, I had a graduate student by the name of Mike Holober, who studiedsaxaphone and clarinet with me so Sheri Merecl was in the band at the same time, SteveDavis the trombone player was in the band. He took over the band part time to do the

    jazz ensemble but I was still here as a full time person an advocate for the program.

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    And so there's been 5 different directors, but I founded it and directed it until 2002. Iretired in 1997 and was given a 5 year appointment as a bartle professor and I did that

    because I was promised that I would be on the committee to look for someone to replaceme full time a full time replacement. In the meantime Mike Carbone had been a

    student of mine, had played in the ensemble as a grad student and had studied improvwith me over the years, and it was between him and another person whos name I don'teven remember at this point, but mike got the job because I had the strongreccomendation. He's been doing it ever since 1997 Carbone has been the basicdirector of the program since 1997. But its a part time adjunct kind of situation, so there'sno advocate for the program, and so even though the bands are still pretty good, infactsome of them have been better than those I've had in the past, um there's no one herefighting to get talented students here other than the ones who just happen to come in and theres no one here who can go out and become leaders in the community of jazz andget to know the people I got to know over the year. Ii mean I was just real lucky becauseI played with slam stewart for 10 years before he died, he died in 87. I wrote all of his

    arrangements on his last recording, and through him I got to know a myriad of people andstarted working with them. I was lucky also in the fact that in about 1983 or so thedepartment passed a touring policy that said that we could be gone 6 weeks any semester as long as we covered our own classes- so I was responsible and some of those classes Iwas able to cover with graduate students at the time other times I would higher former students who could come in and teach the classes so I was able to tour a lot with name

    bands during my last years.After I was chairmen I signed myself to just the jazz program. So I was able to

    work tuessday we and thursday so on the weekends I could go to new york and record.Prior to that I was appointed in 67...oh in 66 I got my graduate degree here. It was timefor me to get a masters, and bob werner was the new wind ensemble conductor here, andhe offered me, I was pres of Music of the Music Educators association in town called thethe punkind music association, and he offered me money that paid for my wholegraduatin program, and gave me the same salary I was working for in the school system.So I took a sabbatical from the school system and became a graduate assistant. He didthe masters degree in the summer. At graduation Dr William Klenz who was one of hisleading professors here in musicology.

    He doctorate work at Eastman.When I was growing up my father was member of the original Glenn Miller band.

    I grew up listening to glen miller, was a bassoon major, and played Saxaphone and fluteas well. Was teaching in school system until 64 until he came here and started teaching

    part time. While graduate student he was assistant conductor of harper wind ensemble.

    What motivated you to start the jazz program? Why was it necessary?

    I had started several jazz programs. I started one at Mansfield university, at UnionHigh School, and the one at Ithaca college as a student. I started going to Ithaca becauseI wanted to play jazz, but at the same time I thought that people were going into musiceducation should have some kind of jazz background because it eventaully had to cometo the public schools because its americas indigous art form. It was no longer popular even in the 50's when I went to school it wasnt as popular as classical music or rock n rollat the time. So we saw the writing on the wall, the fact that it was going to have to be

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    taken over by the educational system for it to continue to grow and live. That was my purpose in starting the programs. I was called to binghamton mainly due to this background.

    I was able to maintain over the years the fact that we had a jazz program. I wasn'table however to get more faculty assigned to me. I had intended that this would be aundergraduate jazz degree, but it would have been different from the other music majors

    because it would not have had necessarily music majors in it. If you look at the jazzensemble program over the years weve had, I think there was only 1 2 or 3 people at themost who were music majors. Some who were not music majors still have gone on to

    become major attractions in the field of jazz. Tony Kadleck did some early work here,Sheri Merickl, Pat Hollenbeck, and later on his brother John Hollenbeck. Lee Muzicker

    What do you feel would be lacking now if the jazz program wasnt in existance?

    I would like to think that because the jazz program is around, it creates interest in jazz generally . The Harper Jazz project grew out of the harper jazz ensemble at some point..except they wanted to run it differently they wanted to run it as producers rather than creators in a way. They wanted to bring big names here and so on so forth. When Iwas here in the harper jazz ensemble, I did not participate very often in the harper jazz

    project. I would go to them for money from time to time to bring guest soloists, but theyalso produced their own concerts. There were 4 concerts a year, 2 of which I was in.They helped me out every once in awhile with money. Now mike does not have controlof his own budget like I did.

    Do you feel there is something specific about jazz music that benefits students?

    I'd like to think so. The whole idea of idea of the fact of being able to understand form,and harmonic structure, being able to play in a rhythm, no matter what the background is,

    being able to play in that rhythm whether 4/4, 34, 6/8 etc but still do it so that it swings or doesnt swing as far as latin is concerned. Theres two types of music swing music,and bach and rock. I'd like to think that the jazz ensemble with their presentations isgood with bringing students in. I used to do a jazz history course, which I believe mike isdoing now, and in this class the students had to attend the harper jazz ensemble concerts,

    plus 4 other jazz concerts in any semester, and they had to write reviews of them. Sothrough that exposure and discussions that went along with the class, I was hoping I wasdeciminating jazz to students. And I still here from former students, not necessarily thosewho were even in the badn or studying music, but those who were in that class who arenow on the boards of directors that are fighting to keep americas indigious music alive.So we did have an impact on the student body, and I'm hoping that the program still hassuch an impact.

    From the concerts I've attended, the crowds have been good in recent years. Ididn't tell you that in the situation I went from town gown to student faculty (around1973) but by 76 the rest of the musicians had come to him in town and said they wantedto form a big band. Through this ban we performed another band called MusicUnlimited, which is now my company.

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    I would have jazz workshops based on whether or not students were available. Iwas here every day of the week practically all day long teaching both classical and jazzmusic.

    If I look at other schools, like purchase, or boston, or NYU, they have faculty who teach jazz full time. Here now there is not someone here who teaches specifically jazz piano,improv, etc. How do you feel about this comparison?

    Lets compare this program to the eastman program. The eastman program hasfaculty who teach every instrument. They are either full time faculty, or adjunct faculty,

    but they're faculty. We here had one person me and at first it was just part of myassignment but it eventually became my full situation because I was able through beingchair and on committess I gained enough importance in the department that I could assignmy duties and assign extra people to do those things so that I was only doing jazz. So

    heres to programs - Eastman had a composers componnent as well as an orchestrationcomponnent. They had big workshops in the summertime when theyd have major composers in and teach workshops. Our program once it got established in the 70's, wedidnt have the first concert until 68 remember, where we had jazz workshops going on, or we had a big band, or I taught jazz orchestration, or I taught jazz history one semester each. That was as big as the program got because I was the only guy. I was able to hiresome people in residence from time to time I think I had 3 diff pianists in residence

    because I don't play piano and I couldn't teach anythinga bout piano. Therefore every 5or 6 years I was able to get somebody here to give keyboard lessons and show peoplecertain things. In the meantime I bought one of my collegues from ithaca college namedDoug Beardsly. Doug beardsly became the jazz piano teacher in town he would helpme out when I had problems, I would higher him on an hourly basis to come talk tostudents but I got him here in this town because I offered him a graduates assistanshipto finish his classical piano masters so I was able to bring him in. As far as bas isconcerned, slam stewart was here he was not on the faculty but he would come over and teach students. And after sheryl merickl left and went to NYU, shed come in fromtime to time and do clynics and after that I had other pro players I was working in comein and do clinics....all of this came out of my pocket! I would write it off on my incometax of course. I would donate money to the foundation earmarked to come back to the

    jazz program so I could pay for the concerts.The impact of this was the fact that I got to be known all around the state I did

    allot of adjudicating at different jazz festivals over the year- school jazz festivals. I waschosen to be first director of the New York State Summer School of the Arts a statesponsored school that was here for 5 years a month program where I would bring infamous faculty and I was the director of the program, and wed get all kinds of people tocome in who are now out playing.... Anyway we had a fulltime faculty Mike, Shery,Tony, Bud ---- would come in as faculty. I did that for 5 years. My budget was 100thousand dollars for the month long program. It got to the point where the 100 thousandwas no longer available so we moved it up to SPACK and they wanted me to go up as thedirector. It took me 3 weeks before program started and after program started to get itcleaned up and get it ready within the system. And I wasnt about to spend 8 weeks up inthat area so I turned it down. Through those kind of programs I made a lot of friends

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    we had everybody here you can name them. Since I left that post in 1992, before that Ihad created my own workshop called jazz at harper that I did for the public school

    people, and we even ran graduate credits for music educators who already had a bachelors degree.

    The point is there is no summer program here there is no building program -there is no oh I would like to go to the binghamton program there is no pull, noadvocate for the program. I used to go into the city and audition students for the

    program.

    Do you feel that the budget is one of the things stopping us from having more adjunct teachers?

    Budget is the problem of everything that goes on in college today. Artsdepartments take the wrap because as sciences grow, as mathematics grow, as they comein with new PHD's who get a lot of research money from the government or other

    activities, and they create new programs that they have, the arts take a hit. When I waschair here. I had 4 musicologists, 3 theorists, a composer in residence, a string quartet inres, a woodwind quartet in residence plus 40 adjunct people to teach things like guitar,recorder, those kind of instruments. The music department now has 4 full time people.

    What would you say is stopping the teachers from giving them any background in termsof improvisation?

    No, they wouldnt provide that, they might give them improv based off of classicalsituations, but I can imagine Tim Perry having his students create their own cadenzas which is improvisation. There has been teaching here in the past by Paul Goldstab whohas taught improvisation based in classical terms.

    I spoke to Markus Lolly who was teaching a jazz, and he used to teach a course herewhich is no longer in operation, correct?

    Markus was basically a student here, and when they had money they gave himsome things to do with that. That was never part of the program when I was here. Theonly jazz courses we taught was orchestration, and history. Never any theory. Becausethe difference between classical theory and jazz theory is very minimal. If you learnwhat 145 is in classical, even though they might be different notes, its the same 1 45 in

    jazz. When they say 17 they are talking major 7 when we are saying that term in jazz itsthe dominant 7. what doesnt get used in classical is the voicings we use in jazz howmany notes you use in a chord.

    Jazz theory was taught by me in the jazz workshops how you read chordchanges, what you do with your single or multiple line instruments. I guess MikeCarbone is teaching that too because he has jazz workshops that perform before theconcerts. I used to have 4 improv classes, now I believe there are only 2 or 3. The main

    purpose of the workshops was to learn to play on different chord changes, what to do andnot to do. I would have pianists for example, learn to listen to other players andtranscribe some solos of the bebop piano players, and see what the soloists are doing intheir left hand, to improve their improv.

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    Why do you feel jazz is so beneficial to a student body? Personally, I find mythinking has changed since I started studying jazz. My thinking is more analytical, morein layers, how things work over one another rather than linearly......

    Those are all thought processes that I've gone through over the years of teaching which is part and parcel why I wanted americas music to continue to be taught here. Thecontribution by Bob pompei will insure that the jazz ensemble will still be here even if the music department disappears. The money will always be only for the jazz program.The important thing is to have students involved in this because the students who comehere are bright and theyre going to be succesful, I dont know a student who has lefthere who is not succesful today -they all find jobs, and they become the members of thelords, of the banks, of the major organizations they become important and they becomefacilitators for jazz to continue. They are the wyntom maralysis.

    How important do you feel it is in terms of choosing the tunes and the materials?I made my decisions based on what I wanted the students to learn that semester. I

    knew what the quality of the band, how many students there would be in terms of returnees, and what I had to work with, so I chose charts that were relevant to the time,had historical perpsective to them, or were being played by the traveling big bands at thetime or written by the composers who were doing new things in jazz. But basically it wasfor the chord structure or for the basic structure of the tune. In other words if we had allA AB A tunes one semester, and no blues, we would have the blues be a part of the nextsemester etc. It was based off of the students I knew were coming back. Picking tunesfor singers always depended on what their ranges were and how good they could sing.

    Side note:

    Mike has 3 fulltime jobs, he has this, his wedding band, and fulltime job in johnson city as director of music for the highschool.

    How do you feel the jazz program has changed over the years? What did you notice inthe past 37 years? What were some of the biggest changes and developments positive or negative?

    Its not what I noticed, its what I tried to create. It started as a very basic fewmember group, and then became a big band, then an all a student band etc. The changesthat happened because of me was the fact that I wanted the program to continue. Iformed this program, it was my baby, I wanted it to continue and to grow. I was alwayslooking for something new to present to the students. I was involved in the now defunctIAJE. I was president in the chapter in new york state. It was continuous preparation onmy part in order to continue the program. When I started that jazz workshop programJazz in Harper I was able to raise enough money to bring known bands for 5 days andthey presented a concert every night. I had bobby brookmyer here with his septet. I hadthe woody herman band here, 5 days 5 concerts. I had them do music all from the 40,50,60, 70's, and 80's band as well as their main show. We did allot of evening concerts in thestudents center as well.

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    How condusive do you think the binghamton area is to jazz education and jazz music?

    You're talking to the preacher. Most of the jazz that has gone on here I've beenresponsible for. Either by financing it, or finding finances for it, or convincing clubowners to do this or that. Mike carbone has taken over in my spot as far as two locationsin town The Number 5 restaurant and The Lost Dog. I have jams every other week atthe Firehouse Stage, and the other jams that go on I'm responsible for. I fund projectsthrough my company music unlimited. We used to be called, the big band, MusicUnlimited, but then I made it my company. My company now does all kinds of things Isuggest you look at the website before you write your paper. Just to see what we do we

    produce records, and help people find funding for projects they have. We have a lot of jazz fans in this town when you think about the number of people who are here whodon't go to concerts as a rule we have more people going to plays here than we have

    going to concerts.The other thing is that there are so many things that go on in this campus thatconflict / compete with things that are going on in town. Well, the other night there wasat least 3 things going on on campus that were conflicting with themselves. At the sametime, there were things going on in town. So, were spreading ourselves too thin becausewe have so many presenting organizations hardly anywhere do we have a full house.But, we have good attendance and if you make money, you continue to rpesent it.When you start losing money is when you start losing people. But right now, althoughthe non profit organizations are having trouble finding donations, most of them arekeeping even because the profit margin is just above the red line.

    When I was applying to music conservatories, there were allot of organizations that exist like IAJE, like the Grammy Band, and all these different sort of..programs that assisted kids in the arts to go on and to study..and they seem focused at high school students

    getting into college. But what you're in college, it sems like you're kind of dropped off.Or at least thats what it felt to me. Do you feel there can be more emphasis not only on

    getting kids into the jazz program but also guiding them career wise?

    Guiding, yes, I think there hould be financial. Financial assistance thats adifferent conversations. Allot of things about getting you, or young people into thecollege, is the fact that we want to make sure that we have a basic underlying populationthats educated. It's hard nowadays to get people to go to school, financial times are reallytough. A lot of those organizations that are defuct because of the stock market crash, allotof them used to feed the school in terms of scholarships, incentives, etc. IAJE for instance is gone, and not there. We have no association of jazz educators in this countrynow.

    I know personally probably 95 percent of the jazz musicians who are operatingtoday theyll call me by my first name and its because I made myself available to getto know them in some way. Thats what a full time person can do, that an adjunct personcant do. And so it is a fact that the program is still strong in that performance isconcerned, but weak in terms of bringing people into the program and giving them a

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    basic education.

    Appendix C

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    Interview with Dean Papadolopous, band member of the Harpur Jazz Ensemble.interviewewed 11/22 2010 by Joey Lieber, transcribed in full below

    What are your experiences, trials, and tribulations in the Jazz ensemble? How has it benefitted you, and how do you think it benefits our school?

    Dean Papadopoulos Junior Accounting/MIS Major from Setauket, NY

    It is an odd experience coming from a non-musical background and trying to (musically)hang with people who've had much more experience than I had previously. I came infrom playing is HS jazz ensemble, somehow managing to be a bari sax player with noimprovisational education or skills for 2 years in the top jazz ensemble. I had alwayslistened to jazz, but had no formal education.

    I tried auditioning my first year at Binghamton, which turned out to be a life changingexperience. I always thought I had skills, but after hearing two tenor players who were

    basically professionals, I quickly learned I was awful. I spent the next year practicing asmuch as I could and trying to learn the ins and outs of jazz--or at least those I thoughtwere important.

    I made the jazz ensemble my sophomore year and thought I had some idea of what wenton with jazz improvisation. I learned again, soon enough, that I had no idea. The teachingaspect of it was different from what I expected. A friend of mine at Trinity College inConn. received private lessons on sax from a professional sax player and learned all hisimprovisation from him as well in a private setting. Here at Binghamton I receive privatelessons from a strictly classical sax player and receive improv instruction in a groupsetting where people are not all on the same level.

    It is obviously more helpful than not, however there comes a point where one person'swork is hindered by those around them. Coming from someone who has always never

    been good enough in HS settings, to someone who has worked hard in college to getwhere I am now (which in my opinion still has more to go) it is frustrating to know that Ihave no opportunities to advance with personal instruction from an individual standpointthrough the university. The university has a storied jazz program and somehow managesto have good players year in and year out, however most of that comes from what peopledid in HS and the few opportunities they have in college (drum professor has jazzexperience and one or two others might be able to instruct students in jazz idioms).

    There also comes the point where one recognizes that this ensemble is mostly not musicmajors. There are students like myself who can achieve good grades and practice a lot,while others are stuck with the crazy workloads of other majors and academic skills thatdo not allow lots of time to practice. With this in mind comes the idea that someone likemyself would never cut it in an ensemble with a lot of music majors. The fact that it is notthat strong in essence gives those passionate musicians the ability to play at a level theywant while still being able to include them in groups. This is something that cannot be

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