The 3rd Secret of Fatima

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The Third Secret

Consecration of Russia

Crusader 64 Page 18

The 3rd Secret

Vision Explained

Following is an edited transcript of an interview with Father

Nicholas Gruner by Tom Masset, host of Heavens Peace Plan

Radio Program. For ease of reading, the interviewer questions

are in italic. Father Gruners response is in regular type.

[Tom] Father, as you know, the so-calledThirdSecret has been

published on Monday, June 26, of this year and I have in front of me

a copy of the text they released. Perhaps, for the benefit of ourlisteners, you could give us a run down on how you interpret this,

line, by line, by line.

Vatican Interpretation Not Infallible

[Father Gruner] First of all, the interpretation released with the text is not

an infallible statement of the Pope or the magisterium. It is a commentary

thats an opinion offered by two officials in the Vatican. Cardinal Ratzinger has

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been quoted as saying that one does not have to accept their interpretation.

Any Catholic who thinks Im going against the Vatican or the Pope can be quite

at ease. This is a matter that we have freedom of opinion on.

I do not accept that interpretation. Im not the only one by any means. On

the front pages of the Ital ian papers, Msgr. Balducci stated that he doesnt

accept it. Apparently there are also headlines that say there are bishops who

dont accept it. So, as you can see, anyone who thinks I am somehow against

the Vatican or the Pope on this issue can be at ease. This is a matter uponwhich we all have freedom of opinion.

Secret Not About Past

The second thing I would like to point out is that the Secret is not a thing of

the past. Cardinal Ottaviani, in 1955, told us there was a prophecy in the

Secret. It is a prophecy in the strict sense of the word, predicting the future

and predicting it in the name of God.

Cardinal Ratzinger offers a different definition for prophecy; nevertheless the

commonly accepted meaning of the word is to predict the future. This is an

accurate use of the term, and thats how Im using the term here.

So we have here a prophetic vision which is also symbolic. Cardinal

Ratzinger or the commentators coming from the Vatican including Cardinal

Sodano would have us believe that the vision refers to shooting the Pope in

1981.

Im not saying people have to take my opinion just because I give it any

more than Cardinal Ratzingers opinion, just because he gives his, but the

facts are this. The vision reports the Pope and bishops and priests, nuns and

brothers, men religious and women religious as well as lay people being killed

by an army. They were being killed by bullets, they were being killed by arrows

surprisingly enough. They were being killed.

Its not a question of the Pope taking a bullet, then recovering from a
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serious injury. Were talking about the Pope being killed in this vision, not by

one lone gunman, but by an army of men attacking various ranks of the

hierarchy; various levels should we say in the Church and society. This vision

then, if it is not of the past and it is prophetic, is something of the future.

Angels Warning

I believe this vision is a warning, as the angel says, penance, penance,

penance. It is providential that God has al lowed this vision to be released tous at this time.

Sr. Lucy, writing about this vision in 1982, and Im quoting from memory the

Vatican documents just released, says that the prophecy of this vision in the

Third Secret has not been fully realized. So obviously the 1981 shooting does

not constitute the end of the prophecy.

Sr. Lucy tells us that in a lit tle while, well be making great strides towards

it. She writes this to the Pope on May 12, 1982 and says that in a lit tle while,well make great strides. And so, if in 1982, in a litt le while well make great

strides, now, 18 years later, the realization of this prophecy cannot be very far

off.

I think the Vatican has tried to tell us that this is all in the past,

its over and done with. You bring up a very important point that this

is not done with. I was raised as a teenager in the 50s and we

looked forward to the release of the third secret in 1960. A lot of

people now are doubting whether this in fact is the true Third Secret.

Theyre saying that they are going to pay no attention to this.Theyre saying this must be only part of the secret.

Something Missing

It appears to be only part of the Third Secret. I have no reason to doubt

that it is Sr. Lucys writing and she refers to it as the Secret. However, we

dont have the end of her writing and so it does not seem to be the whole

Secret. I have found that the common man in the street is questioning that if
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thats all there was then why did they wait 40 years before they revealed it?

Well I can agree with that.

Msgr. Corrado Balducci a theologian and demonologist in Rome, has been

reported on the front pages of Italian newspapers as saying that he does not

believe that what was published is all there is. Almost everyone I have spoken

to since the release simply believe there must be more. They may not all be

saying it publicly; they are saying it to their friends and neighbors and in theirfamilies. They are saying that cant be al l there is.

They have a sense of proportion. Whether simple folks or highly educated,

they all know that something doesnt fit; it doesnt jive; it doesnt match. You

know the kind of oaths that people were put under to not reveal it the few

people that knew it. It doesnt match the great care and caution theyve taken

to not reveal i t and then wait ing 40 years after the promise to reveal i t in

1960. All of these things dont match. Nor does it match Sr. Lucys inability to

write it down for three months because it was so horrible. It simply doesnt fit.

Its not proportionate.

It s like a puzzle. The first two parts have already been put in

place. The First Secret, the Second Secret and this Third Secret

doesnt fit. You try to get it every which way and it doesnt complete

it; its incomplete.

Another point to consider is that Our Lady said at the end of the Second part

of the Secret, In Portugal the dogma of the Faith will always be preserved.

etc. Etc. seems to be the last words She says. Obviously, thats not quite a

fit.

The Vision Explained

Coming back to the vision itself, even though it is incomplete, I would not

want to dismiss it. What weve been given is a very great key. Now I wouldnt

be able to explain this as well as Our Lady; however, since thats all weve

been given, I will try to help people understand this as best as I know myself.


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First, the Pope goes through a great city. What is that city? That city is the

City of God. What is the City of God? It is the Catholic Church and the Catholic

civilization. It is half destroyed. We can see that taking place, already, before

our eyes, spiritually speaking.

Many are losing the Faith.

People are losing the Faith and not only the practice of the Faith but also

the results it has in culture. In 1950, in Western Europe or North America, no

one would even think of legalizing abortion. They would have laughed it out of

existence. Im not talking about the plotters or the conspirators; Im talking

about the average man in the street because it would be just so foreign to

their way of thinking. But, by corrupting Christian hearts l ittle by little, people

have accepted as normal these unspeakable crimes and a lot of other things.

So in a certain sense, certainly their souls are dead i f they are

living in mortal sin.

Yes, and the vision shows the city is half destroyed and the Pope is going

through the city and hes in pain because he sees the results of not listening

to Our Lady. Sr. Lucy tells us that the vision is about what would happen when

we dont listen to Our Lady.

So now it is also described as a mountain. And if you look at Isaias 2:3, it

says: Let us go up to the mountain of the Lord. This mountain is the Catholic

Church, as the commentators of the Douay Rheims tells us. You have here a

vision of the Pope going towards the Cross; going towards his final destination

as it is for all of us to go towards Heaven. But on his way hes going through

the city and the city is half desolate.

Now we also see another picture here. Its not only the Pope who gets shot,

but its also bishops who get shot. Its also priests who get shot, and nuns,

and religious brothers who get shot and killed, all of them, as well as lay

people. Its not by accident that these soldiers pick them out to shoot at.

There is a war against the Church going on. It is a war fought by organized


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armies. This vision gives the symbolism of soldiers and no doubt there are

even soldiers in these armies but there are soldiers of other kinds too.

Russias Errors Will Spread

The whole message of Fatima talks about Russia spreading her errors

throughout the world. Of course, we have understood that to be communism

and it doesnt mean it still isnt communism because communism is very much

alive. Marxist doctrine basically is a doctrine of hatred, hatred of God andhatred of your fellow man. This kind of diabolical hatred just doesnt dry up

one day when Gorbachev declares that theres no more cold war. This hatred

started long before Gorbachev was even heard of.

I understand Gorbachev was in the Vatican the day after this was

released.

Yes, that was outrageous! That is a whole other matter that will be

discussed. But to continue with the vision, I asked myself why did the Pope

decide to reveal the secret. It becomes clear when you realize that it wasprobably last October, I believe, when he made that decision, and what

happened last October? Well, in September there was the Indonesian event in

East Timor. The North Americans dont know this but it was reported in French

journals the officers of the Indonesian Army were ordered to fire on priests and

nuns and shoot to kill.

Really?

Yes. I m sure the Pope had eyewitness reports. Bishop Carlos Belo was in

Rome and he had eyewitness reports of this war against the Church which was

shooting live bullets at real live people and they were being killed by this. I

think that must have tripped his memory to remind him of this vision contained

in the Secret. Its also then a picture of what will happen to the rest of us

unless we listen in time.

This brings us back to Cardinal Ratzingers point which he said in 1984. Ive

read the Third Secret. It concerns the dangers to the Faith and to the l ife of


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the Christian and therefore to the life of the world. At first glance, you havent

got the dangers to the Faith in this vision but you certainly have the dangers

to the life of the Christian, and the danger to the life of the world. This latter

is represented by the angel with the sword. If the people dont do enough

penance then the whole world will suffer and youll have the annihilation of

nations that Our Lady predicted at Fatima.

If thats the result, the reason why is because the angel has held back, and

that is by the hand of Our Lady. But if people arent praying to Our Lady thenthe angels chastisement will fall upon the world. And so if people are not

listening to the message to pray the rosary, to wear their scapular, thus are

not invoking the protection of Our Lady, then the just chastisement will fall

upon mankind.

So this is both a spiritual death and a physical death that we see

here?

3rd Secret Vision is a Gift

Yes, and so the vision in this text is indicative of the Secret. I dont have

the wisdom or the abili ty as Our Lady does but i t is really a gift for the Church

to be able to look at this vision. It is revealed to us for our time because its a

vision of the future, and I must respectfully disagree with Cardinal Ratzinger

when he suggests that people want to know the future out of curiosity. No, I

think God is giving us this vision of the future and giving His prophetic

message predicting the future so we can adjust our living accordingly so we

wont have this chastisement.

That is why I want the people to realize that knowing the future; what will

happen and the terrible consequences, are important to them. And if they start

learning this out of curiosity and go deeper, they will realize that theres a real

message here for them. If you want to live happily in this world as well as in

the next, take great care that you look to this prophetic vision so that you

dont suffer the consequences by ignoring it.

Im afraid many people will ignore this. They dont see how it fits


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without Our Ladys explanation. Would you explain the end of the

sentence, Beneath the two arms of the Cross?

That statement upholds the classic teaching of the Church that the blood of

martyrs is the seed of the Faith. That is, where there has been martyrs then

their martyrdom is not in vain. God collects the merits of the martyrs, and

applies, through the merits of the martyrs, graces to the people who are stil l

on earth, for them to come to conversion. So some people wil l benefit from the

martyrdom by those martyrs praying for them and them converting to God andfinally realizing the promise that Our Lady says, In the end My Immaculate

Heart will triumph, the Holy Father will consecrate Russia to Me, Russia wil l be

converted and a period of peace will be given to mankind. Of course, it wont

be the Holy Father whos killed who will do the consecration of Russia, it will

be a Holy Father who succeeds him who does it. That is why it is so important

for us to pray, work and sacrifice for the proper Consecration of Russia because

if the present Holy Father does not do it soon, we have grave reason to fear

that the soldiers, armed enemies of the Church, will actually kill him and many

Cardinals, bishops and priests, nuns and brothers, as well as laypeople.

Then why would this have been more important in 1960?

It would have been more clear then. Obviously, we would have avoided

Vietnam, among other things, and the holocaust of more than 700 million

babies killed since they brought in legalized abortion in the West. It would

have been clear enough for people to see in 1960 or at least the leaders if not

for the people who are not as, shall we say, informed as the leaders. And it

would have been easier to bring about the full obedience of the bishops to

consecrate Russia.

Does this angel who cries out with a loud voice, penance,

penance, penance, fit in the Apocalypse at any point?

When the Pope went to Fatima on May 13th in 2000, he said that Our Ladys

appearance at Fatima is the fulfillment of biblical prophecy and he specified

Chapter 12, verse 1, And a great sign appeared in Heaven, a Woman clothed

with the sun and the moon was under Her feet. I find it very interesting that

Pope John Paul II should cite that verse. Its the same verse that Pope Paul VI


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said in 1967. Pope Paul VI, when he went to Fatima, wrote an Encyclical dated

the 12th of May, the day before he went. He issued this Ecyclical called Signum

Magnum which is the Latin term for the Great Sign. These are the first words

of Chapter 12, verse 1.

Pope Paul VI very strongly suggested that Our Lady of Fatimas appearance

was the fulfillment of the prediction of the prophecy of St. John in Chapter 12

that the Woman clothed with the Sun would come.

The Devil Drags Down One Third of the Clergy

Pope John Paul II goes further. He doesnt suggest; he affirms it. So both

Popes are pointing us to that chapter of the book of the Apocalypse of the

Bible. Pope John Paul II goes further; its quite extraordinary what he says in

his homily (see extracts of the homily in Pope John Paul II on May 13, 2000 at

Fatima). He gives us a pointer. He quotes Chapter 12, verse 3 and 4, in which

the verses he quotes is, and the dragon, meaning the devil, drags down one

third of the stars of Heaven. What is the meaning of that phrase: the dragondrags? It is the devil who drags down to the earth one third of the stars of

Heaven. What are the stars? Catholic commentators have commonly said that

the stars of Heaven represent the Catholic clergy. One third of the Catholic

clergy are taken out of the Heavens!

Apostasy.

Well, not only apostasy. Apostasy is for every rank. Anyone can be

apostatized. But for the clergy to be dragged out of Heaven, you have the

words of Sr. Lucy explaining the Third Secret and you have to go back to FatherFuentes interview of December 26, 1957. The last time Sr. Lucy was able to

speak publicly, she spoke about the devil wanting to fight, thinking hes going

to win. She told us that the devil is planning to fight a decisive battle.

She says the most effective way the devil can do harm to souls is by taking

away their leaders we are talking about the priests, talking about the stars

of Heaven and that by taking away the priests then the people would be left

leaderless and they would more easily fall into the hands of the devil. That
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ties in with one third of the stars of Heaven being taken down to the earth.

Can The Mother Stand By?

That ties in with at least one Catholic interpretation of that verse. It ties in

with what Pope John Paul II said in 1982, Can the Mother with all the force

and the love, that She fosters in the Holy Spirit, and desires everyones

salvation; can She remain silent when She sees the very basis of Her childrens

salvation undermined? And he answers his own question, No, She cannotremain s ilent.

What is the Blessed Mother trying to do? She is crying out to us to pay

attention because our salvation is being undermined. Now certainly the basis

of our salvation is our Catholic Faith. You might say the second basis of that is

our religious leaders. So, if one third of the stars of Heaven are dragged down,

then people will find it harder to save their souls. The faithful must be careful

to fol low those Catholic clergy who preserve the faith.

And also it is important for people to pray for priests, to pray for the

bishops, to pray for the Cardinals and to pray for the Pope.

For certain Father. Where wi ll we be without priests? How difficult

in the latter times might it be to find a priest. People would beg to

have a priest they can confess to when those terrible days come.

And we know how important it is to have priests to give us the

sacraments. Where would we go without them? How many more

people would lose their souls without priests!

There is so much more information about Fatima that the world needs to

know. Frere Michel, world renowned Fatima scholar has written The Whole

Truth About Fatima. We have translated and published his three volumes in

English. I urge everyone to read them to get a more complete insight to the

utter urgency of Our Ladys message and requests at Fatima. Volume III, The

Third Secretcontains the interview of Father Fuentes with Sister Lucy. It is a

key to the Third Secret. Sister Lucy still remains under silence but at least we

can take the key which she gives us in that interview.


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Why Russia?

Speaking of Our Ladys requests, Father, why is it so important

thatRussia be consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, and

not just the world. Why doesnt the world fulfill the request?

First of all, the Pope and the bishops have never fulfilled this request of Our

Lady according to her directions. So why is it so important? Sr. Lucy told us in

that same interview with Father Fuentes, Many times the Blessed Virgin told

me and my cousins Jacinta and Francisco that Russia is the instrument of

chastisement chosen by Heaven to punish the whole world if we do not

beforehand obtain the conversion of that poor nation.

Of course, God will punish the world for its sins and thats understood in the

context, but why Russia? Everything glorifies God; we either glorify Gods

justice or we glorify His mercy. Everything serves God. Even evil regimes serve

God. And God has chosen to use the regime of practical and militant atheists

to chastise the rest of the people for their sins.

There is one way out of that chastisement and that is by converting Russia.

But the only way to convert Russia is through the Message of Fatima. It will be

achieved only through fulfilling Our Ladys requests and specifically for the

Pope and the bishops consecrating the country and people of Russia to the

Immaculate Heart of Mary in a solemn and public way on the same day and at

the same hour.

Is this what the Pope has planned for October of this year?

The Holy Father has asked the bishops of the world to join him in Rome on

October 8, 2000, but to consecrate the world.

The world?

The world. He has consecrated the world several times; he did it on June 7,

1981. Then he did it again with much more ceremony, you might say, before a

million people on May 13, 1982. And again on March 25, 1984. He consecrated


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the world all these times, but he has never consecrated Russia in the manner

requested by Our Lady of Fatima.

Didnt I read somewhere that the Holy Father made mention of the

fact that those peoples are still awaiting?

Yes. Even after consecrating the world on March 25, 1984, Pope John Paul II

acknowledged before about 250,000 people in St. Peters Square that he had

not done what Our Lady of Fatima requested. He said, Enlighten especially

the peoples of which you yourself are awaiting our consecration and confiding.

He said that after he did the consecration of the world. So he knows he hasnt

done what Our Lady of Fatima asked for. But he felt, at least at that time, that

his hands were tied.

When Sr. Lucy, asked Our Lord why He would not convert Russia without

that consecration, He said, Because I want My whole Church to recognize that

consecration as a triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary so that later on My

Church will place devotion to My Mothers Immaculate Heart beside devotion to

My Sacred Heart.

And so in effect, Sr. Lucy, herself, had asked, Why Russia? Among other

things, Russia is a very well defined territory. So when Russia is consecrated

and people see the resultant conversion to the Catholic Faith of that country

as distinct from the countries around it, they will make the connection. That

will clearly be seen as the result of the Pope and the bishops consecrating

Russia.

Then people will see the relationship between this act of consecration, thisact of honor to the Blessed Virgin and the conversion of Russia. God wants to

honor Her by giving this grace to Russia. Through Russias conversion giving

world peace to the world, people will say, Well i f devotion to the Immaculate

Heart of Mary can do that for Russia, whats it going to do for me? And,

therefore, it will be a major step in promoting devotion to the Immaculate

Heart of Mary and establishing it in the world.

God Wants Devotion to Our Lady


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God wants to establish devotion to the Immaculate Heart in the world so

many more souls will be saved.

Father, thank you for taking the time to explain this vision and

encouraging us to seek the truth, for the sake of our lives and our

souls. We pray that Our Lady will protect you as you stand strong to

defend Our Lady and our Holy Catholic Faith.

Id like to remind our listeners to continue to pray the rosary every day, wear

the brown scapular and receive the Sacraments worthily. We are, as Sister Lucy

says, engaged in a decisive battle against the devil and we must fortify

ourselves with prayer and sacrifice. Your prayers are most important to me. It

is that grace from the prayers of you and all friends of Our Lady that assists

me in this work to bring about the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary

before many more souls are lost.

Father, is the triumph of Our Lady, the conversion of Russia and

world peace described in the Bible?

I think it is. Read Isaias 2:2-4: In days to come, the Mountain of the Lords

house shall be established as the highest mountain and raised above the hills.

All nations shall stream toward it; many peoples shall come and say: Come,

let us climb the Lords mountain, to the house of the God of Jacob, that he

may instruct us in his ways, and we may walk in his paths. For from Sion shall

go forth instruction, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

He shall judge between the nations, and impose terms on many peoples.

They shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruninghooks; one nation shall not raise the sword against another, nor shall they

train for war again.

The Mountain of the Lords house is the Catholic Church, founded by Jesus

Christ. Al l nations, after the miraculous conversion of Russia will stream

towards the Catholic Church whose Pope and bishops were instrumental in

bringing about the end of Russias war on God. From Sion, that is the Mount of

h l h f h h ld h ll d


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the Holy Eucharist for the Last Supper was held on Mount Sion shall send

forth instructions as well as the Gospel which was started in Jerusalem on

Pentecost Sunday. The result wil l be world peace and swords turned into

plowshares and, therefore, plenty to eat for all. And there will be no more war

anywhere.

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The 3rd Secret of Fatima

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Transcript of The 3rd Secret of Fatima