Taming the T-rex …And other dinosaurs CHALLENGING EARTH HISTORY: Part I The Questions Elaine...

Taming the Taming the T-rexT-rex

…And other …And other dinosaursdinosaurs

CHALLENGING EARTH HISTORY: Part ICHALLENGING EARTH HISTORY: Part IThe QuestionsThe Questions

Elaine Kennedy, Ph.D.Elaine Kennedy, Ph.D.Geoscience Research InstituteGeoscience Research Institute

http://www.grisda.orghttp://www.grisda.org

Did God Create Did God Create T. rexT. rex??• Were carnivorous Were carnivorous

animals in the animals in the Garden of Eden?Garden of Eden?

• Did God create Did God create organisms with a organisms with a lifespan?lifespan?

• Is predation a Is predation a necessary evil in necessary evil in our world today? our world today?

Did God Create the Did God Create the Gigantic Sauropods?Gigantic Sauropods?

DiplodocusDiplodocus

Why don’t we have living dinosaurs?Why don’t we have living dinosaurs?

What Has Been Found?What Has Been Found?

• Are the skeletons in the museum Are the skeletons in the museum just imaginary?just imaginary?

• Are dinosaurs amalgamations?Are dinosaurs amalgamations?• Did the dinosaurs really live? Did the dinosaurs really live? • Have researchers found whole Have researchers found whole

skeletons?skeletons?• How much can scientists know How much can scientists know

from broken bits and pieces?from broken bits and pieces?

Part I: SummaryPart I: SummaryThe Christian community has The Christian community has many questions about the origin many questions about the origin and existence of dinosaurs. While and existence of dinosaurs. While some may think these questions some may think these questions are foolish, there is a lack of are foolish, there is a lack of knowledge among Christians that knowledge among Christians that needs to be addressed. This needs to be addressed. This series is a rather meager attempt series is a rather meager attempt to address those questions, while to address those questions, while providing information that will be providing information that will be beneficial to those who are more beneficial to those who are more knowledgeable on this topic.knowledgeable on this topic.



CHALLENGING EARTH HISTORY: Part IICHALLENGING EARTH HISTORY: Part IIThe DataThe Data



Dinosaur DatabaseDinosaur Database

BONESBONES

SKULLSSKULLS

SSKIN IMPRESSIONSKIN IMPRESSIONS

TRACKS & DUNGTRACKS & DUNG

EGGS & EGGS & BABIESBABIES

DEATH ASSEMBLAGESDEATH ASSEMBLAGES

Data: BonesData: Bones

• Fragments & Fragments & StructureStructure– Skeletal Skeletal

FragmentsFragments– Muscle Muscle

Attachment ScarsAttachment Scars– Size ComparisonsSize Comparisons

• DNA?DNA?

Data: Bone FragmentsData: Bone Fragments• Jumbled bone Jumbled bone

bedsbeds• Isolated skeletal Isolated skeletal

featuresfeatures– Ankle boneAnkle bone– Hip structureHip structure

Muscle attachment Muscle attachment

scarsscars

– TendonsTendons

Data: SkeletonsData: Skeletons

ChasmosaurusChasmosaurus

Nearly Complete SkeletonsNearly Complete Skeletons– Muscle Attachment ScarsMuscle Attachment Scars

– Size ComparisonsSize Comparisons

Data: Wide Variety Data: Wide Variety within Familieswithin Families

Zuniceratops TriceratopsZuniceratops Triceratops

Data: Large & SmallData: Large & Small

HadrosaurHadrosaur Deinonychus Deinonychus Height ~to a giraffe ~to a German Height ~to a giraffe ~to a German

shepardshepard

Interpretation: Interpretation: Males vs Females?Males vs Females?

Length of chevrons Length of chevrons

at base of tailat base of tailInterpretation:Interpretation:

Stegosaurus Stegosaurus male?male?

Length of chevrons Length of chevrons

at base of tailat base of tailInterpretation:Interpretation:

Rhabdodon Rhabdodon female?female?

Data: Structural Data: Structural ComparisonsComparisons

• Researchers Researchers compare femurscompare femurs– From left (not to scale):From left (not to scale):

– Probactrosaurus Probactrosaurus – ChasmosaurusChasmosaurus

• Cervical vertebral Cervical vertebral featuresfeatures– PsittacosaurusPsittacosaurus

– CamarasaurusCamarasaurus

DATA: SKULLSDATA: SKULLS

Tarbosaurus bataar Tarbosaurus bataar ZuniceratopsZuniceratops

Lobes of the BrainLobes of the Brain– Internal cast of the brain case: sight (optic), Internal cast of the brain case: sight (optic),

hearing (otic) & sense of smell (olfactory)hearing (otic) & sense of smell (olfactory)

TeethTeeth– Structure suggests dietStructure suggests diet

Data: SkullsData: Skulls

Allosaurus Allosaurus skullskullMuscle Attachment Scars on JawsMuscle Attachment Scars on Jaws

Data: Skin ImpressionsData: Skin Impressions• CorythosaurusCorythosaurus• Skin impression Skin impression

(mold)(mold)– Associated skeletonAssociated skeleton

• Dinosaur Dinosaur embryoembryo – Associated bone Associated bone

fragmentsfragments– Skin impression?Skin impression?– Precipitate?Precipitate?

Animation and color adjustment by E Kennedy with permission from Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County, which is not responsible for any interpretation of its exhibits on this web site

Data: Dinosaur TracksData: Dinosaur Tracks

• Tracks made Tracks made by dinosaursby dinosaurs

• Tracks found Tracks found in water-laid in water-laid depositsdeposits

• Human Human tracks not tracks not found with found with dinosaur dinosaur trackstracks

Data: DungData: Dung

• Rock does not Rock does not match match associated associated sedimentsediment

• Petrified Petrified woody tissue & woody tissue & burrowsburrows

• Dung beetle Dung beetle burrows?burrows?

Data: Montana: Data: Montana: Hadrosaur Baby & EggHadrosaur Baby & Egg

MaiasauraMaiasaura

Arrows indicate large eggshell fragments

Data: Death AssemblagesData: Death Assemblages

CoelophysisCoelophysis

Preservation statePreservation state

Entombing sedimentsEntombing sediments

Part II: SummaryPart II: SummaryThe data base for dinosaurs includes:The data base for dinosaurs includes:

1.Skeletons to bone fragments from 1.Skeletons to bone fragments from which structural information can be which structural information can be surmised. surmised.

2.Skin impressions provide information 2.Skin impressions provide information about appearance. about appearance.

3.Tracks and possible dung indicate the 3.Tracks and possible dung indicate the animals really lived and moved over animals really lived and moved over the earth. the earth.

4.Eggs and possible nests suggest 4.Eggs and possible nests suggest breeding activities, and… breeding activities, and…

5.Death assemblages found worldwide 5.Death assemblages found worldwide occur in water-laid deposits.occur in water-laid deposits.



CHALLENGING EARTH HISTORY: Part IIICHALLENGING EARTH HISTORY: Part IIIThe DeathThe Death



What Happened to the What Happened to the Dinosaurs?Dinosaurs?

PsittacosaurusPsittacosaurus

Demise of DinosaursDemise of Dinosaurs• Volcanism => Climate Change?Volcanism => Climate Change?

– Loss of link in food chain expected Loss of link in food chain expected but not documentedbut not documented

• Asteroid Impact?Asteroid Impact?– Most dinosaurs already dead before Most dinosaurs already dead before

K/T event K/T event

• Evolved into Birds?Evolved into Birds?– Lack of evidence & mechanismLack of evidence & mechanism

• Destroyed by Water?Destroyed by Water?– Dinosaur remains found in water-Dinosaur remains found in water-

laid deposits worldwidelaid deposits worldwide

Data: Data: T. rexT. rex• Large muscle Large muscle

attachment scars attachment scars on jaws and armson jaws and arms

• Enlarged optic & Enlarged optic & olfactory lobes, olfactory lobes, serrated teethserrated teeth

• 14 nearly 14 nearly complete complete skeletonsskeletons

• JuvenilesJuveniles

Data: Hadrosaur Data: Hadrosaur MaiasauraMaiasaura

• Self-Self-sharpening sharpening and nipping and nipping teethteeth

• JuvenilesJuveniles• EggsEggs• Nests?Nests?

Distribution of deathDistribution of death

Dinosaurs suddenly appear on four continents in the upper Triassic!

Dinosaurs go extinct in the upper Cretaceous!

Sedimentary DepositsSedimentary Deposits

• Flood deposits in CanadaFlood deposits in Canada• Lake, river, flood plain, coastal, Lake, river, flood plain, coastal,

lowland deposits in the United lowland deposits in the United StatesStates

• River deposits in South AmericaRiver deposits in South America• Debris flow deposits in MongoliaDebris flow deposits in Mongolia• Flood deposits in ChinaFlood deposits in China• Marsh, island, delta, coastal Marsh, island, delta, coastal

deposits in Europedeposits in Europe

Part III: Summary

The destruction and The destruction and preservation of dinosaurs in preservation of dinosaurs in water-laid deposits water-laid deposits worldwide has provided an worldwide has provided an extensive database for extensive database for study. study.



CHALLENGING EARTH HISTORY: Part IVCHALLENGING EARTH HISTORY: Part IVThe Biblical Questions +The Biblical Questions +



Does the BibleDoes the BibleTalk About Talk About Dinosaurs?Dinosaurs?

Job 41:8,15, 29, 31Job 41:8,15, 29, 31• If you lay a hand on him [leviathan],

you will remember the struggle….• His back has rows of shields tightly

sealed together….

• A club seems to him like a piece of straw;

he laughs at the rattling of the lance….

• He makes the depths churn…and stirs up the sea….

NIV

Job 40:15, 17, 21Job 40:15, 17, 21

• Look at the behemoth…which feeds on grass like an ox.

• His tail sways like a cedar; the sinews of his thighs are

close-knit.• Under the lotus plant he lies,

hidden among the reeds of the marsh.

NIV

Were Were Humans & DinosaursHumans & Dinosaurs

Living Together?Living Together?

What Are Some of The What Are Some of The Questions Christians Questions Christians

have about Dinosaurs?have about Dinosaurs?

Weren’t Dinosaurs too Big Weren’t Dinosaurs too Big for the Ark?for the Ark?

One Christian author says:

Soon after the flood the race began to rapidly decrease in size, and in length of years. There was a class of very large animals which perished at the

flood. God knew that the strength of man would decrease, and these mammoth animals could not be controlled

by feeble man.

EGW: 4A SG 121

Weren’t Dinosaurs too Big for Weren’t Dinosaurs too Big for the Ark?the Ark?

As we have seen, ½ the families of dinosaurs were smaller than an adult giraffe. So there is no reason to think that they might not be on the Ark.

Perhaps the author is talking about the large mammals, reptiles, amphibians, insects, etc. that went extinct during the Flood.

The extinction of large animals seems to be a consistent trend in the fossil record.

Were Dinosaurs Were Dinosaurs Amalgamations?Amalgamations?

One Christian author says:

Every species of animals which God had created was preserved in the ark. The confused species which God did not

create, which were the result of amalgamation, were destroyed by the flood.

EGW: 1SP 78

Were Dinosaurs Were Dinosaurs Amalgamations?Amalgamations?

This author specifies that amalgamated species were considered “confused species.” There is nothing confusing about dinosaurs. Their bone structure is distinctive, their skeletal features are distinctive and when the data is studied, dinosaurs are a clearly defined group of animals.

Part IV: SummaryPart IV: Summary

• What does the Bible say about dinosaurs?– Job 40 (large herbivore, probably low to the

ground, probably not a dinosaur)– Job 41 (marine creature, not a dinosaur)

• What are some of the other questions about dinosaurs?– 4A SG 121 (large animals, not just

dinosaurs)– 1 SP 78 (amalgamated, probably not

dinosaurs)



CHALLENGING EARTH HISTORY: Part VCHALLENGING EARTH HISTORY: Part VThe NestsThe Nests



Problematic Issues I:Problematic Issues I:Dinosaur EggsDinosaur Eggs

• Are the dinosaur egg sites Are the dinosaur egg sites really nests?really nests?

• Are there multiple levels of Are there multiple levels of dinosaur nests and eggs? dinosaur nests and eggs?

• Are these sites pre-Flood, Are these sites pre-Flood, Flood or post-Flood deposits? Flood or post-Flood deposits?

Data: Oviraptor EggsData: Oviraptor EggsMongoliaMongolia

Possible Overbank DepositionPossible Overbank Deposition

Some Nests PromisingSome Nests Promising

Data: Maiasaur Eggs Data: Maiasaur Eggs “Nest in Camp” “Nest in Camp”

MontanaMontana

Eggs & fragments indicate transportEggs & fragments indicate transportSediments indicate no nest hereSediments indicate no nest here

Data: Troodon? Eggs Data: Troodon? Eggs Egg MountainEgg Mountain

Two layers found hereTwo layers found hereLimited documentationLimited documentation

Possible NestPossible Nest

Six eggs encased in plasterSix eggs encased in plasterNote: “Rim”Note: “Rim”

Carbonate rockCarbonate rock

Data: Eggs in PatagoniaData: Eggs in Patagonia

Multiple levels of eggsMultiple levels of eggs

Fragment orientations & distributionsFragment orientations & distributions

Cross-bedded sandstonesCross-bedded sandstones

Data: Sauropod Eggs Data: Sauropod Eggs Lerida Egg SiteLerida Egg Site

Sediments indicate transported eggsSediments indicate transported eggs

Data: Dinosaur Eggs Data: Dinosaur Eggs Aix-en-Provence Aix-en-Provence

Crushed eggs with internal Crushed eggs with internal shell fragmentsshell fragments

Photographed by Elaine Kennedy near Montagne Sainte-Victoire, France

Data: Dinosaur Eggs Data: Dinosaur Eggs South KoreaSouth Korea

Sediments suggest transported eggsSediments suggest transported eggs

Multiple levelsMultiple levels

Part V: SummaryPart V: Summary

In the literature, authors cite single and multiple eggs as “nests.” Regions estimated to have hundreds of eggs are considered nesting grounds. Little work has assessed the nature of the sediments in which the eggs were deposited. Consequently, there is little evidence for dinosaur nesting behavior.



CHALLENGING EARTH HISTORY: Part VICHALLENGING EARTH HISTORY: Part VIThe LinksThe Links



Problematic Issues II:Problematic Issues II:Dinosaur-Bird LinksDinosaur-Bird Links

• Why do scientists think birds Why do scientists think birds evolved from dinosaurs?evolved from dinosaurs?

• Is Archaeopteryx the link Is Archaeopteryx the link between dinosaurs and between dinosaurs and birds?birds?

Data:Data:Dinosaur-Bird LinkDinosaur-Bird Link

DromaeosauridsProposed “sister” group

Dinosaurs => Birds?Dinosaurs => Birds? Database for DiscussionDatabase for Discussion

• Hip structureHip structure– Bone structure

• Respiratory structuresRespiratory structures– Nasal passages– Lungs/Diaphragm

• Finger orderFinger order• ArchaeopteryxArchaeopteryx• Feathered dinosaursFeathered dinosaurs

Data: Hip StructureData: Hip StructureStratigraphic levelStratigraphic level

Coelophysis Coelophysis Dromaeosaurs Aves Dromaeosaurs Aves • Upper Triassic: Upper Triassic: CoelophysisCoelophysis• Upper Jurassic: Upper Jurassic: ArchaeopteryxArchaeopteryx• Upper Jurassic: Upper Jurassic: ConfuciusornisConfuciusornis• Lower Cretaceous: Lower Cretaceous: UtahraptorUtahraptor• Upper Cretaceous: Other Upper Cretaceous: Other

DromaeosaursDromaeosaurs

Dinosaur Respiratory Dinosaur Respiratory structuresstructures

• Nasal passages Nasal passages lack turbinateslack turbinates

• Possible evidence Possible evidence of diaphragm-like of diaphragm-like structurestructure

• Bird nasal Bird nasal passages have passages have turbinatesturbinates

• No diaphragm/flow No diaphragm/flow through lungthrough lung

Finger StructureFinger Structure

• Fingers in a bird’s wing form in the embryo as fingers 2, 3 & 4.

• Fingers of the dinosaurs have been identified as fingers 1, 2 & 3.

Data:Archaeopteryx lithographicaArchaeopteryx lithographica

• 20+ features shared with reptiles

• 20+ features shared with birds

• 5 features unique to Archaeopteryx sp.

Part VI: SummaryPart VI: Summary

The evolution of dinosaurs The evolution of dinosaurs into birds is a popular theory. into birds is a popular theory. The postulated evolutionary The postulated evolutionary evidence for links between evidence for links between dinosaurs and birds has been dinosaurs and birds has been disputed by a number of disputed by a number of credible researchers in credible researchers in paleontology and biology. paleontology and biology.



CHALLENGING EARTH HISTORY: Part CHALLENGING EARTH HISTORY: Part VIIVII

The Feathered DinosaursThe Feathered DinosaursElaine Kennedy, Ph.D.Elaine Kennedy, Ph.D.

Geoscience Research InstituteGeoscience Research Institute


Problematic Issues II:Problematic Issues II:dinosaur-bird linksdinosaur-bird links

• Are the “feathers” on Are the “feathers” on dinosaurs real?dinosaurs real?

• Is the existence of feathers Is the existence of feathers on any reptile problematic on any reptile problematic for Christians? for Christians?

• Are feathered dinosaurs Are feathered dinosaurs links?links?

Data:Data:Young Young Sinosauropteryx primaSinosauropteryx prima

Yixian Formation, lower Cretaceous, Liaoning Province, ChinaYixian Formation, lower Cretaceous, Liaoning Province, China

•Compsonathid –like skeleton•Ruffled dark ridge above the spine shows what may have been feathers

Data:Data:Confuciusornis sanctusConfuciusornis sanctus


•This bird lacks teeth •Note forelimbs & feathers•Birds abundant in same formation & “time” as feathered dinosaurs •Can feathered dinosaurs be “the links” when birds were already present?

Feathers

DataData: : Caudipteryx zouiCaudipteryx zoui


•Feather plume on tail & wings

•Feathers & down may have covered entire body

•Only a few hooked teeth in the front of its upper jaw

Data:Data:Protarchaeopteryx robustaProtarchaeopteryx robusta


• Archaeopteryx lithographica had asymmetrical feathers

• P. robusta did not fly– Symmetrical feathers

Feathers

Data:Microraptor guiMicroraptor gui

Jiufotang Formation, lower Cretaceous, Liaoning Province, ChinaJiufotang Formation, lower Cretaceous, Liaoning Province, China

• Fracture pattern around skeletonFracture pattern around skeleton– Key features isolated

• Carbonized feathersCarbonized feathers– No carbonized flesh

• Slurry? between bones & Slurry? between bones & feathersfeathers– Patching?

• Best specimens purchasedBest specimens purchased

Part VII: SummaryPart VII: Summary

The validity of the feathers on The validity of the feathers on dinosaurs is still debated; dinosaurs is still debated; however, if the feathers are however, if the feathers are real, their presence on real, their presence on dinosaurs does not establish a dinosaurs does not establish a link between dinosaurs and link between dinosaurs and birds because true birds are birds because true birds are found in lower layers with no found in lower layers with no ancestral evidence in the ancestral evidence in the layers below.layers below.

ConclusionsConclusions

• Dinosaurs lived on earth, probably created by God as unique organisms, “normal” existence

• Eggs and babies are genuine– Nests are not yet clearly established– Transport of eggs is widespread

• Feathered dinosaurs are considered links by some scientists– Feathers disputed– Links disputed

Psalm 8:3,4,6-9Psalm 8:3,4,6-93 When I consider Your heavens, the work of Your

fingers,the moon and the stars, which You have set

in place,4 What is man that You are mindful of him,…. ?6 You made him ruler over the works of Your

hands; You put everything under his feet:

7 All flocks and herds, and the beasts of the fields,8 The birds of the air, and the fish of the sea,….9 O Lord, our Lord,

how majestic is Your name in all the earth!

NIV

Taming the T-rex …And other dinosaurs CHALLENGING EARTH HISTORY: Part I The Questions Elaine...

Documents

Transcript of Taming the T-rex …And other dinosaurs CHALLENGING EARTH HISTORY: Part I The Questions Elaine...