Brian Daniel Member

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Swiss Made on Caseback Only

With all of the commotion regarding Swiss labels, I'd like to know how to understand my

Ocean Ghost III MOMOP GMT's. The are marked Swiss Made on the caseback only. No swiss

claim is made on the dial. In light of recent revelations, should I considerm to be Swiss

Parts and made in Asia? Wouldn't they be labeled Swiss Made on the dial if they were? Also,

my Sig Coll RD GMT really is not Swiss Made after all, right? It is labeled Swiss at the 3

o'clock mark.

These questions are not meant for intentions violating the TOS and are directed to anyone

who cares to answer.

3 Lastest Threads by Brian Daniel

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12:03 PM

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My First Swiss Legend Watch Swiss Watch International Brian Daniel 0 44 12-21-2009 09:36 PM

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#2

06-21-2010, 12:06 PM

My Watch Senior Member

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I don,t know anymore it seem,s like it changes everyday

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#3

06-21-2010, 12:06 PM

jskelton WatchGeeks Owner

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Clarify: Does it say:

Swiss Made

or

Swiss Made Movement

?

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#4

06-21-2010, 12:17 PM

X-James Member

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http://invicta.chronoshark.com/p-738...ens-watch.aspx

When it was sold via Invicta Shark they declared it as a "Swiss Movement" and said "Swiss

Made Ronda Movement" but was it 100% Swiss made movement or one of those 51% of the

parts are so it qualifies as such but it is one of those shady areas of gray that has been

referenced before.

To give an answer to your question ... no I highly doubt you have a "Swiss Made" timepiece

but then I may be wrong but I bet I'm not.

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#5

06-21-2010, 12:27 PM

Brian Daniel Member

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jskelton

Clarify: Does it say:

Swiss Made

or

Swiss Made Movement

?

Hi Jim,

Thanks for helping. I have two, and they both say "Swiss Made" on the casebacks, and not

on the dials.

As an aside, my favorite Invictas in my collection are Japanese movements. My Swiss Parts

Slim MOP keeps better time than any other watch I have. Same goes for my Japanese

master calendar retrograde with a Time Module movement-keeps better time than anything

Swiss I have. But I digress.

Brian

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#6

06-21-2010, 12:33 PM

gdevine Member

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Last night I purchased the Reserve Mid Size Akula Swiss Quartz Chronograph with the

Rhonda 5040.d. This is a Reserve watch which I was to believe were all 100% Swiss and

Hand Made. BUT the face says only "Swiss" and the case back says Swiss Chronograph. Now

I know the engine is Swiss and I am okay with that but what about this Reserve? Is it Swiss

Made or not???

Really confusing and it shouldn't be.

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#7

06-21-2010, 12:59 PM

WatchYaThink Senior Member

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Quote:

Originally Posted by gdevine

Last night I purchased the Reserve Mid Size Akula Swiss Quartz Chronograph with the

Rhonda 4050.d. This is a Reserve watch which I was to believe were all 100% Swiss and

Hand Made. BUT the face says only "Swiss" and the case back says Swiss Chronograph.

Now I know the engine is Swiss and I am okay with that but what about this Reserve? Is it

Swiss Made or not???

Really confusing and it shouldn't be.

Well, according to the on air speech that we have all heard a million times: "What does it

mean to be a Reserve .... it means it is a completely hand assembled Swiss made

timepiece".

According to the statement from Eyal: When it just says Swiss on the dial you can pretty

much assume it has a Swiss parts movement and was most likely assembled in China.

So, as far as all of our Reserve timepieces that just say Swiss on the dial ..... I really

dunno??? Maybe "Reserve" trumps, and the meaning of "Swiss" has another implication

when it is on a "Reserve".

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#8

06-21-2010, 01:01 PM

unclefixit Senior Member Super Geek

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Daniel

Hi Jim,

Thanks for helping. I have two, and they both say "Swiss Made" on the casebacks, and not

on the dials.

As an aside, my favorite Invictas in my collection are Japanese movements. My Swiss Parts

Slim MOP keeps better time than any other watch I have. Same goes for my Japanese

master calendar retrograde with a Time Module movement-keeps better time than

anything Swiss I have. But I digress.

Brian

This might help you (and others) understand...

Copied and pasted from the Federation of Horology website.

Legally speaking Conditions for use Case A Swiss watch "Swiss Quartz" indication A Swiss

watch movement "Swiss parts" indicationMaterial extent of the use of the word "Swiss"Role

of the FHWristlet Conditions for use A Swiss watch

Only when it is Swiss, may a watch carry the indications "Swiss made" or "Swiss", or any

other expression containing the word "Swiss" or its translation, on the outside. According to

Section 1a OSM, a watch is considered to be Swiss if:

its movement is Swiss;

its movement is cased up in Switzerland; and the manufacturer carries out the final inspection in Switzerland..

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#9

06-21-2010, 01:26 PM

DiverFan Senior Member

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Quote:

Originally Posted by gdevine

Last night I purchased the Reserve Mid Size Akula Swiss Quartz Chronograph with the

Rhonda 4050.d. This is a Reserve watch which I was to believe were all 100% Swiss and

Hand Made. BUT the face says only "Swiss" and the case back says Swiss Chronograph.

Now I know the engine is Swiss and I am okay with that but what about this Reserve? Is it

Swiss Made or not???

Really confusing and it shouldn't be.

Very confusing indeed!

I own a mid sized Akula, an earlier edition, and it says Swiss Made on the dial and case

back. It contains a ETA G10 movement.

It may be that the Rhonda 5040d is not totally Swiss Made and that is why they did not put

Swiss Made on the dial.

It is a great watch, so just enjoy it!

As for the Reserves being Swiss Made. There was an exception with the really fantastic

Reserve Lupahs (Sandstone and Meteorite). They contained a Seiko/Invicta collaborative

movement. Eyal and Jim made it a point to say that they were not Swiss Made. I own the

Sandstone version and it is one of the most perfectly made Invictas I own!

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#10

06-21-2010, 01:31 PM

Brian Daniel Member

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But does Invicta follow those in its labeling?

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#11

06-21-2010, 01:35 PM

erictrumpet Senior Member

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The mesh bracelet Grand Divers are like this. No marking at all on the dial, and "Swiss

Made" on the caseback. I am wearing mine now. Spent $68 bucks on it, so I have no

illusions that this watch was handcrafted by a master watchmaker in Geneva...

Nonetheless, I'm curious...

Eric.

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#12

06-21-2010, 01:41 PM

knapplink Senior Member

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Daniel

But does Invicta follow those in its labeling?

The assumption is that Invicta follows the quotes from the Swiss Federation site. Invicta is

not a member and I don't believe there is an "incentive" to follow their rules if you are not a

member.

From the Swiss/Swiss Made response:

http://watchgeeks.net/showpost.php?p...&postcount=396

"Then there is the talk about the Swiss Federation. I cannot speak too much into the Swiss

Federation standard because it is a private foreign entity, not a law dictating body, and we

do not belong to it for a variety of reasons I prefer not to go into. I respect companies

developing a stamp of approval and charging for it, such as COSC, but to be part of a group

that develops standards on watches based on the direction of the “big players” in the watch

industry, and attempting to apply them to smaller companies without giving them a fair

chance, is a monopoly, and I am strongly against that."

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#13

06-21-2010, 01:44 PM

CLEANS-HIGH Senior Member

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So does my LP Italy watches that have Swiss on the dial and Swiss on the caseback mean it

is Swiss made?

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#14

06-21-2010, 02:22 PM

unclefixit Senior Member

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Daniel

But does Invicta follow those in its labeling?

Reguardless of Federation of Horology membership (in or out), Invicta, and

anyother watch manufacturer, is abligied to follow the guidelines setforth as to the

labeling a watch as "Swiss Made", both words used.

The use of those two words are jelously guarded by the Swiss watchmaking world.

The ambigueity begins when the word "Swiss" alone is used in the labeling of a

watch by companies that are not F.H. members.

You must remember that the F.H. and its members consider the labeling of a

watch, "Swiss Made" and "Swiss" to be the same thing.

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#15

06-21-2010, 02:24 PM

unclefixit Senior Member

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Quote:

Originally Posted by CLEANS-HIGH

So does my LP Italy watches that have Swiss on the dial and Swiss on the caseback mean

it is Swiss made?

Depends, are they a member of the Federation of Horology.

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#16

06-21-2010, 03:04 PM

CHUCK WAGON Senior Member Veteran Geek

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I dont care to answer as this subject had been beaten to DEATH.....

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#17

06-21-2010, 03:16 PM

wave3214 Senior Member

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I dont even care any more. If it looks good and I got a good price I just wear and enjoy it

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#18

06-21-2010, 03:17 PM

supra Senior Member

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BUMP...

As i would like to know the answer to this question. I too have an Invicta with the words,

'Swiss Made' on the caseback and no mention of it on the 6 o'clock position.

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#19

06-21-2010, 03:21 PM

ao Senior Member

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I guess the only real way of knowing is to pop the case back? And even then, that's only the

movement.

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#20

06-21-2010, 03:50 PM

gdevine Member

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I just want to know as well is all... I found older threads on this subject and I am still

confused. When I read the F.H. rules it all seems pretty clear to me. My guess is the Rhonda

5040.d in my Akula is of Swiss origin (parts) but assembled in Asia...?

You know, with my other "fine" and significantly more expensive timepieces this "Swiss

Made" crap is not to be even questioned...nor would it be.

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#21

06-21-2010, 03:54 PM

MATTNATTI Senior Member Veteran Geek

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jim will be back soon and clarify for all.

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Did you see that? Do they all got hedges like that? Do they?

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#22

06-21-2010, 04:07 PM

RenatoDiamond Senior Member True WatchGeek

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I thought this was a swiss parts watch, at least that was true of the ISA 8173 GMT.

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#23

06-21-2010, 04:24 PM

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I dont care anymore!!!!!!!!!!

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#24

06-21-2010, 04:26 PM

timely1 Senior Member Super Geek

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I have an Ocean Ghost III, and I remember that it says "Swiss made" on the caseback but

not on the dial. (I don't have the watch in front of me) BUT, I think the next word on the

case back after 'Swiss made' is "movement." i.e., the watch has a Swiss made movement,

but was likely assembled in Asia. That's my take on it.

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#25

06-21-2010, 04:33 PM

watchluv Senior Member

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Quote:

Originally Posted by supra

BUMP...

As i would like to know the answer to this question. I too have an Invicta with the words,

'Swiss Made' on the caseback and no mention of it on the 6 o'clock position.

I would say it is Swiss Made but with Invicta you just can't be sure unless you crack the case

back open.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by andyboy

I dont care anymore!!!!!!!!!!

I'll drink to that!

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#27

06-21-2010, 04:38 PM

Brian Daniel Member

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Quote:

Originally Posted by unclefixit

Reguardless of Federation of Horology membership (in or out), Invicta, and

anyother watch manufacturer, is abligied to follow the guidelines setforth as to

the labeling a watch as "Swiss Made", both words used.

The use of those two words are jelously guarded by the Swiss watchmaking

world.

The ambigueity begins when the word "Swiss" alone is used in the labeling of a

watch by companies that are not F.H. members.

You must remember that the F.H. and its members consider the labeling of a

watch, "Swiss Made" and "Swiss" to be the same thing.

Are they obligated if it does not says Swiss Made on the dial? What about the caseback?

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#28

06-21-2010, 04:42 PM

buddah00 Senior Member

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Quote:

Originally Posted by gdevine

Last night I purchased the Reserve Mid Size Akula Swiss Quartz Chronograph with the

Rhonda 5040.d. This is a Reserve watch which I was to believe were all 100% Swiss and

Hand Made. BUT the face says only "Swiss" and the case back says Swiss Chronograph.

Now I know the engine is Swiss and I am okay with that but what about this Reserve? Is it

Swiss Made or not???

Really confusing and it shouldn't be.

That is a legitimate question and one I haven't found the answer to yet.

The last thing I want to do is start another bash thread.

If the Reserve line is supposed to be Swiss Made and hand assembled and

some of the new Reserves like that Akula only say swiss then what does that

mean for the Reserve line?

I know times are tough economically and as a small business owner I can

attest to that. If the Swiss movements for those watches are too expensive or hard to come by right now I would hope they would make the watches

with just "Swiss" on the label their own entity and not ruin the reputation of the Reserve line. I hope that regardless of the label that all Reserve pieces

still follow the same criteria and that the Reserve line standards and integrity

remain intact.

As I say in most of my comments about this in most cases I couldn't care

less where the watch was made. I just want to know what I am buying.

Jim responded in this thread so hopefully he can shed some light on this for us.

. __________________

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#29

06-21-2010, 05:50 PM

gdevine Member

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Quote:

Originally Posted by buddah00

If the Reserve line is supposed to be Swiss Made and hand assembled and some of the new Reserves like that Akula only say Swiss then what does

that mean for the Reserve line? .

EXACTLY! I just took it that my purchase last night of the Reserve Akula was Swiss Made as

I heard 100X on SNBC when any Reserve was presented for sale. It was only later today

when I looked closely at the watch dial online I only saw "Swiss" and only "Swiss

Chronograph" etched on the back case. Then I remembered the other threads on this

topic...and well...the story goes.

I have one criteria for my watches; they have a Swiss heart. I ordered a limited production

run from Bernhardt Watch Company that has a ETA Unitas 6497 movement. The watch is

assembled in this great country of ours by a small but maseter watch maker. The Bernhardt

watch face correctly states at the 6 position "Swiss Movement" exactly like it should and that

is fine for me.

If this Akula Reserve has a true Swiss Rhonda 5040.d than I am okay with that as well.

HOWEVER, being an Invicta Reserve I BELIEVED IT WAS "SWISS MADE" and not built in

China.

I was upset when I put the pieces together on this today. I don't hang out here for hours a

day and don't read each and every thread so excuse my redundancy here fellows.

Peace.

PS. I will think twice about my future Invicta purchases as a result.

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#30

06-21-2010, 06:07 PM

Magster Senior Member

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This is a good question and one that needs an answer...

I remember when my OG GMT with MOP dial came out there was a LOT of talk about an OG

being Swiss Made. Many of us OG lovers were shocked. So, it was addressed many times

and the answer was always that it was Swiss Made.

With new info... this may have changed.

On the clearance show for Invicta a day ago, Micheal was flat out asked if the watch we are

talking about was Swiss Made. He seemed to think about it for a second and then agreed

that it was Swiss Made.

So, the questioning continues to this day. I don't think Michael really knows and does not

want to upset folks here by saying it is Swiss Made when it isn't. But, he was asked by the

host and he had to say something...

I own this watch and it says Swiss Made on the caseback and NOT on the dial.

http://financehow.info/browse.php?u=Oi8vZW50ZXJ0YWlubWVudC53ZWJzaG90cy5jb20vcGhvdG8vMjkwOTc5NjIzMDEwNDcyMzgyNVZudW1Cdg%3D%3D&b=13

I remember questioning HERE, why they made a Swiss Made watch that did not have solid

end links???? The other Swiss Made OGs had the upgraded solid end links:

Until we hear otherwise, Eyal and all have said they are Swiss Made.

I doubt it, but until now, I didn't question it...

NOW, I do!

As for all Reserve watches being Swiss Made. NOPE! Even taking out the special Lupah,

there are SAS models with Swiss at the 6 position. Per Eyal's statement, that is NOT Swiss

Made.

So they can NO LONGER claim that all Reserves are Swiss Made. Period.

Back to this OG...

Jim?

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#31

06-21-2010, 06:17 PM

timeman Senior Member

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Magster

On the clearance show for Invicta a day ago, Micheal was flat out asked if the watch we are

talking about was Swiss Made. He seemed to think about it for a second and then agreed

that it was Swiss Made.

I don't know what's in Micheal's mind, but when he speaks about a watch, he is stating what

Invicta wants him to say.

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#32

06-21-2010, 06:18 PM

rhickey Senior Member

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Why don't you guys just have a jeweler crack the case back?

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#33

06-21-2010, 06:24 PM

Magster Senior Member True WatchGeek

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rhickey

Why don't you guys just have a jeweler crack the case back?

For some... it is the integrity of the issue

For some ... it is the not wanting to void the warranty

For some... it is that they don't know how or don't have the tools

Lots of other reasons, but I fall into the first category...

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#34

06-21-2010, 07:04 PM

CLEANS-HIGH Senior Member Veteran Geek

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this is rediculas, if a watch says Swiss then it should be assumed to be Swiss made,

because that is the implication, otherwise it is a attemp to deceive IMO

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#35

06-21-2010, 07:27 PM

delo149 Senior Member

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I'd like an answer to this.........not that anyone gives a crap about what i want. I still think it

would be interesting to get a straight forward answer that is the end all be all on this

particular topic. No more analogies..just an answer

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#36

06-21-2010, 08:08 PM

gdevine Member

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Honestly, (and this is pure speculation on my part mind you) if the truth were to come out,

and it can be proven that there was deliberate and wilful deception and marketing fraud

(among a bunch of other legal issues) there could be criminal and civil penalties that Invicta

may face over this issue.

One reason they are not to the point on a straight answer and a little tight lipped about this

issue right now is that their lawyers could be advising them not to respond or make any

statements.

Again, this is just speculation on my part and may not hold any water whatsoever...but one

never knows.

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#37

06-21-2010, 08:51 PM

JoeH Senior Member Super Geek

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I to would like a straight answer on the Reserve line if it is hand assembled???

Does hand assembled mean that they picked the watch off the assembly line?

JoeH

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#38

Yesterday, 12:27 AM

Magster Senior Member

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Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeH

I to would like a straight answer on the Reserve line if it is hand assembled???

Does hand assembled mean that they picked the watch off the assembly line?

JoeH

I have heard this issue clarified lately on the SNBC shows...

I don't recall specifically who was hosting/Invicta Rep for the show, but the host said the

Reserves were Hand Made. The Invicta Rep stated that they are Hand Built.

Jim addressed it too:

Hand built means they put the watch together using human hands. The parts were

not hand built, so the watches are not Hand Made.

How many parts are assembled using human hands is a question that could use some

clarity, but to me, the other issues are more in "NEED" of a response...

Sorry for going off topic...

Back to the Ocean Ghost GMT Caseback...

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#39

Yesterday, 02:21 AM

unclefixit Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Universal City, Texas (about 10 miles N.E. of San Antonio)

Posts: 1,479

Real Name: Jay

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magster

This is a good question and one that needs an answer...

I remember when my OG GMT with MOP dial came out there was a LOT of talk about an

OG being Swiss Made. Many of us OG lovers were shocked. So, it was addressed many

times and the answer was always that it was Swiss Made.

With new info... this may have changed.

On the clearance show for Invicta a day ago, Micheal was flat out asked if the watch we are

talking about was Swiss Made. He seemed to think about it for a second and then agreed

that it was Swiss Made.

So, the questioning continues to this day. I don't think Michael really knows and does not

want to upset folks here by saying it is Swiss Made when it isn't. But, he was asked by the

host and he had to say something...

I own this watch and it says Swiss Made on the caseback and NOT on the dial.

http://financehow.info/browse.php?u=Oi8vZW50ZXJ0YWlubWVudC53ZWJzaG90cy5jb20vcGhvdG8vMjkwOTc5NjIzMDEwNDcyMzgyNVZudW1Cdg%3D%3D&b=13

I remember questioning HERE, why they made a Swiss Made watch that did not have solid

end links???? The other Swiss Made OGs had the upgraded solid end links:

Until we hear otherwise, Eyal and all have said they are Swiss Made.

I doubt it, but until now, I didn't question it...

NOW, I do!

As for all Reserve watches being Swiss Made. NOPE! Even taking out the special Lupah,

there are SAS models with Swiss at the 6 position. Per Eyal's statement, that is NOT Swiss

Made.

So they can NO LONGER claim that all Reserves are Swiss Made. Period.

Back to this OG...

Jim?

Maggie, I hope this helps to answer your question about the Swissness of your

Ocean Ghost.

Take note, that the use of the words "Swiss Made" do not have a specified location

for their placement on a Swiss watch.

Copied and pasted from the Federation of Horolgy website.

Conditions for use A Swiss watch

Only when it is Swiss, may a watch carry the indications "Swiss made" or "Swiss",

or any other expression containing the word "Swiss" or its translation, on the

outside. According to Section 1a OSM, a watch is considered to be Swiss if:

its movement is Swiss;

its movement is cased up in Switzerland; and the manufacturer carries out the final inspection in Switzerland..

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#40

Yesterday, 03:00 AM

unclefixit Senior Member

Super Geek

Join Date: Mar 2008

Location: Universal City, Texas (about 10 miles N.E. of San Antonio)

Posts: 1,479

Real Name: Jay

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Daniel

But does Invicta follow those in its labeling?

Yes, Invicta and anyother watch manufacturers are also bound by the export

regulations of Switzerland and the import regulations of the United States (in our

case).

Since we're talking about Invicta here, the validity of their watches labeled "Swiss

Made" (both words used) has never been doubted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Daniel

Are they obligated if it does not says Swiss Made on the dial? What about the caseback?

I answered that same question for Maggie in reference to her Ocean Ghost GMT...in

short, it doesn't matter where on the watchhead, top or bottom.

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#41

Yesterday, 04:23 AM

CHRONOKEN Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Aug 2008

Posts: 1,736

Interesting article, especially considering the "Swiss Made" and other questions of the day.

As we all know, talk is only words, unless you can back up what you say.

*

Few companies have had the kind of impact on the watch industry that Invicta has. By being

true to our

original 1837 mission, we’ve turned the balance of power in the watch industry by changing

the dynamic between who can and cannot possess a luxury timepiece.

With each new offering we forced buyers and makers alike to change the way they think

about, market, and appreciate watches.

In the process, our once little-known but respected brand emerged as one of the most

innovative, influential and dynamic watch groups in the world.

The last twelve months were metamorphic for us. We officially changed our name to Invicta

Watch Group and moved a larger percentage of our production to our facility in Switzerland,

increasing our creation of completely Swiss-made pieces.

Several of our latest pieces proudly carry the Swiss Made designation, including the Lupah

Chronometer COSC, the first chronometer in our brand’s history. We introduced the

TransAtlantic and Times Square Automatic, each with technically advanced case

mechanisms. And we became the first watchmaker to use the Ronda Startech 5050.C, the

world’s first Day Big Date chronograph movement with three eyes and automatic big date

correction.

In 2005, the changes at Invicta Watch Group will continue to be as metamorphic as our

ascent into public consciousness has been meteoric. And it will begin with the unveiling of

the Sapphire Ghost, the most ambitious watch we have ever created.

Through it all, one thing remains constant, there is no better value in the watch industry, or

finer holiday gift idea, than a dependable Invicta timepiece. So we’ve selected some of the

year’s best for the watch lover on your list. You can find them at an Authorized Invicta

Retailer near you.

Happy holidays.

Sincerely,

Eyal Lalo

Publisher

CHRONOKEN

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#42

Yesterday, 05:16 AM

X-James Member

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Join Date: May 2010

Posts: 95

Ya know it has gotten to the point that there will never be a definitive answer to any of this

at all. It would not only be damaging to those who are asking and for those who want to

know the truths but it could be even more damaging to those being asked since there bubble

of integrity of those remaining believers could be gone.

For those who seriously wants to know let the lack of response from those who can honestly

and truthfully answer the questions be your answer and for the rest what does it really

matter. If you think your getting what you think you want and you think your getting it for a

great price that what does it all really matter but for those who care about what they are

getting and care about what the have and for those who want what they want then it might

be best for you to only get what you know for sure what it is and just forget the rest cause

that is the only way your going to be happy with your purchases.

The hardest part of all of this, even harder than now realizing you might not have gotten

what you thought you were getting is that you might be starting to realize you may have

been lied to by people you trusted and that you considered as your friends and that it was

done for money, that is the part that hurts the most knowing your friendship and your

loyalty was about money and how to get that money from you and that hurts down to the

core.

What hurts the most is we are now looking for nothing more than the truth. The truth we

desire may be painful and may hurt to the core again but there are some who need to know

and are asking but all they get is silence from those who could truthfully answer. That

silence and avoidance is beginning to speak far louder than whatever the actual truth could

be. Let us remember that the silence of the cash register might be a good response to the

silence of answers whenever we are asked to make another purchase.

Jim, Michael and the rest ... this is not a bash of any type on any of you in any way, you just

did your jobs and repeated and presented what you were told and what you thought to be

true. Take this all as just how one WG feels but I would bet that there are many more out

there lurking and feeling the same.

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#43

Yesterday, 08:57 AM

Neil Senior Member

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Northern New Jersey

Posts: 336

Real Name: Neil

Guys, this Swiss, not Swiss thing is getting out of hand. Unlike the pure Botique brands, the

mid level watch industry is very competitive, everyone wants the cheepest prices and

greatest quality available and the Invicta type companies are working hard to accomodate

the customers. If they have to bend verbage and juggle the truth along the way to give you

what you want, then they will. If you want a purely Swiss made Watch, then you know you

will have to buy the Botique brands. I am perfectly happy with my Renato's, Invicta's,

Croton, Sterlings and Androids. You get the drift. I can't afford to sell my house just to buy a

wrist watch. If I like the look of a particular watch, I buy it and don't care if it's made on the

Pakistan of Afganistan.

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#44

Yesterday, 09:40 AM

orlandopilot Member Member Geek

Join Date: Jan 2009

Posts: 54

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHRONOKEN

Interesting article, especially considering the "Swiss Made" and other questions of the day.

As we all know, talk is only words, unless you can back up what you say.

*

Few companies have had the kind of impact on the watch industry that Invicta has. By

being true to our

original 1837 mission, we’ve turned the balance of power in the watch industry by

changing the dynamic between who can and cannot possess a luxury timepiece.

With each new offering we forced buyers and makers alike to change the way they think

about, market, and appreciate watches.

In the process, our once little-known but respected brand emerged as one of the most

innovative, influential and dynamic watch groups in the world.

The last twelve months were metamorphic for us. We officially changed our name to

Invicta Watch Group and moved a larger percentage of our production to our facility in

Switzerland, increasing our creation of completely Swiss-made pieces.

Several of our latest pieces proudly carry the Swiss Made designation, including the Lupah

Chronometer COSC, the first chronometer in our brand’s history. We introduced the

TransAtlantic and Times Square Automatic, each with technically advanced case

mechanisms. And we became the first watchmaker to use the Ronda Startech 5050.C, the

world’s first Day Big Date chronograph movement with three eyes and automatic big date

correction.

In 2005, the changes at Invicta Watch Group will continue to be as metamorphic as our

ascent into public consciousness has been meteoric. And it will begin with the unveiling of

the Sapphire Ghost, the most ambitious watch we have ever created.

Through it all, one thing remains constant, there is no better value in the watch industry,

or finer holiday gift idea, than a dependable Invicta timepiece. So we’ve selected some of

the year’s best for the watch lover on your list. You can find them at an Authorized Invicta

Retailer near you.

Happy holidays.

Sincerely,

Eyal Lalo

Publisher

This is where I have a problem with Invicta. Why can't they just be who they are without

trying to insinuate and boast that they have shaken up the Swiss Watch Industry and that

they have gotten the attention from the big boys? Pure hype. I don't think Rolex, Omega,

Breitling et. al are losing sleep over Invicta. Invicta should be proud of their niche in the

industry but they need to get over their complex that they are on the same scale with some

of the better known brands. It just isn't true in my opinion. Invicta makes good looking

relatively inexpensive watches that are massed produced and have lots of QC issues.

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#45

Yesterday, 11:49 AM

Brian Daniel Member

Member Geek

Join Date: Nov 2008

Posts: 68

Quote:

Originally Posted by orlandopilot

This is where I have a problem with Invicta. Why can't they just be who they are without

trying to insinuate and boast that they have shaken up the Swiss Watch Industry and that

they have gotten the attention from the big boys? Pure hype. I don't think Rolex, Omega,

Breitling et. al are losing sleep over Invicta. Invicta should be proud of their niche in the

industry but they need to get over their complex that they are on the same scale with

some of the better known brands. It just isn't true in my opinion. Invicta makes good

looking relatively inexpensive watches that are massed produced and have lots of QC

issues.

I agree. Maybe Eyal should just come out and say that Asia produces good watches and take

pride in that, rather than implying their Swiss products rival prestigious unnamed Swiss

brands in quality and value. That's what I would do, but I do not run Invicta.

Brian Daniel

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#46

Yesterday, 11:53 AM

nlandin Senior Member Senior Geek

Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: San Jose, CA

Posts: 331

Real Name: Nephty

Quote:

Originally Posted by wave3214

I dont even care any more. If it looks good and I got a good price I just wear and enjoy it

I agree...

__________________

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#47

Yesterday, 11:56 AM

nlandin Senior Member

Senior Geek

Join Date: Oct 2009

Location: San Jose, CA

Posts: 331

Real Name: Nephty

Quote:

Originally Posted by X-James

Ya know it has gotten to the point that there will never be a definitive answer to any of this

at all. It would not only be damaging to those who are asking and for those who want to

know the truths but it could be even more damaging to those being asked since there

bubble of integrity of those remaining believers could be gone.

For those who seriously wants to know let the lack of response from those who can

honestly and truthfully answer the questions be your answer and for the rest what does it

really matter. If you think your getting what you think you want and you think your getting

it for a great price that what does it all really matter but for those who care about what

they are getting and care about what the have and for those who want what they want

then it might be best for you to only get what you know for sure what it is and just forget

the rest cause that is the only way your going to be happy with your purchases.

The hardest part of all of this, even harder than now realizing you might not have gotten

what you thought you were getting is that you might be starting to realize you may have

been lied to by people you trusted and that you considered as your friends and that it was

done for money, that is the part that hurts the most knowing your friendship and your

loyalty was about money and how to get that money from you and that hurts down to the

core.

What hurts the most is we are now looking for nothing more than the truth. The truth we

desire may be painful and may hurt to the core again but there are some who need to

know and are asking but all they get is silence from those who could truthfully answer.

That silence and avoidance is beginning to speak far louder than whatever the actual truth

could be. Let us remember that the silence of the cash register might be a good response

to the silence of answers whenever we are asked to make another purchase.

Jim, Michael and the rest ... this is not a bash of any type on any of you in any way, you

just did your jobs and repeated and presented what you were told and what you thought to

be true. Take this all as just how one WG feels but I would bet that there are many more

out there lurking and feeling the same.

Well said X-James! IMO

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#48

Yesterday, 05:04 PM

Arclight56 Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: Santa Ana, Ca, Posts: 1,042

Real Name: Chuck

Quote:

Originally Posted by wave3214

I dont even care any more. If it looks good and I got a good price I just wear and enjoy it

No disrespect to others but I agree. __________________

___________________________

Time is the fire in which we burn

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#49

Yesterday, 05:08 PM

I B Ticken Senior Member

Senior Geek

Join Date: Aug 2009

Location: Southeast Florida

Posts: 165 Real Name: Marvin

There's Android, Stuhrling, Citizen, Seiko, and Orient. All quality Asian

Timepieces. And if I want a quality Hand Made, Swiss Movement watch, there's Renato.Along

with some other brands, not including Invicta, this is where I choose to spend my watch

dollars. This will remain true, for me, until many answers concerning certain issues involving

Invicta comes forth. IMHO, the best way to show how you feel about this is to vote with

your pocket book.

__________________

"IT'S GOOD TO BE THE KING"---Mel Brooks, "History of the World, part 1"

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#50

Yesterday, 05:27 PM

rhickey Senior Member

Senior Geek

Join Date: May 2009

Location: Altamonte Springs, FL

Posts: 280 Real Name: Rob

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magster

For some... it is the integrity of the issue

For some ... it is the not wanting to void the warranty

For some... it is that they don't know how or don't have the tools

Lots of other reasons, but I fall into the first category...

What about Mehdi? I figured he would be all over this issue!

ingoodtime Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Mar 2008

Location: Down South

Posts: 1,892

Real Name: Lee

Wow,many good points and inquiring minds do want to know. Ok boys and girls, I have a

way to get a definitive answer.

Just break out your magic 8 ball. This variation requiries you to state the answer and the

questions come up on the 8 ball so you can match your answer to the question?

__________________

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#52

Yesterday, 06:21 PM

CLEANS-HIGH Senior Member

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Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Aliquippa Pa

Posts: 849

Oh what a tangled web we weave, I do believe if it says Swiss made on the caseback it is

Swiss made, but this using "Swiss" if it is not Swiss is just a way to sell watches and make

people think they are swiss made, Invicta is not the only brand that used the word

Swiss instead of Swiss made and they may be Swiss made.

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#53

Today, 06:12 AM

Jamesmbb Senior Member

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Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: New Orleans, LA

Posts: 202

Open the watch and you will be surprised.

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#54

Today, 10:40 AM

watchman888 Senior Member

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Join Date: Apr 2008

Posts: 577

My guess is they used the wrong die for making the caseback. At one time the intent may

have been to have the watch be an official swiss made version and the change to a non

swiss version would have required having the scrap the casebacks. Since this would mean

adding cost to the watch, they just decided to go with the wrongly labeled caseback to save

money. JMO

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#55

Today, 11:12 AM

invictaisthebestwatch Junior Member

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Join Date: Jan 2010

Posts: 10

I say everyone agrees to not post on this forum (or purchase any more product) until these

issues are addressed by a member of Invicta management--They have a serious PR issue

and the most ethical thing to do would be to address (not ignore) the issue.

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#56

Today, 03:16 PM

Flyback Senior Member

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Join Date: Feb 2008

Location: Northern CA

Posts: 17,734

Real Name: Brad

I opened my OGIII with Swiss Made on the case back 20 minutes ago.

The movement is stamped as follows: "Swiss" on one line, followed by "Ronda" and then "1

jewel."

So now you have it as far as this watch is concerned. If you were hoping for Chinese, you'll

have to go get some take out.

__________________

If n = the number of watches you have, then n + 1 = the number of watches you need!

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#57

Today, 03:18 PM

rjaybass Senior Member Senior Geek

Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Cleveland,Ohio

Posts: 202

Real Name: Bob Stokes

I'm so tired I don't care either

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#58

Today, 04:10 PM

09tsar Senior Member

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Location: San Antonio

Posts: 280

Real Name: Eric

Way to go Brad!!

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#59

Today, 05:59 PM

uman Senior Member

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Join Date: Jan 2009

Location: st. louis, missouri Posts: 600

Real Name: David Uthoff

I have the original ocean ghost 47 mm chrono , mine only says swiss made on the case

back, every other geek that owns one (that I KNOW OF) has swiss made at the 6 as well.

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#60

Today, 06:16 PM

Magster Senior Member

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Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Southern California

Posts: 9,373

Great Job Brad!!

thanks for poppin' that caseback off!!

Chinese food does sound good... Orange Chicken... yum!

Quote:

Originally Posted by uman

I have the original ocean ghost 47 mm chrono , mine only says swiss made on the case

back, every other geek that owns one (that I KNOW OF) has swiss made at the 6 as well.

I've never seen an orginal OG Chono with the Swiss Made caseback and nothing on the dial.

The unmarked dials are from the more recent GMT OG's...

Not saying you don't have it, just that I've never seen one. Would be interesting to see. Ya

might have a fluke OG that is a one of a kind!!