Steve Cooley - Civil Service Deposition - 11-09-12 - Redacted

IN RE PAUL MURPHY STEVE COOLEY VOL. ICOURT REPORTER: BETH DRUMMOND PROCEEDING DATE: November 9, 2012

IN THE STATE OF WASHINGTON FOR THE COUNTY OF WHATCOM

CIVIL SERVICE BOARD

In re the matter of: )

)

PAUL MURPHY )

)

___________________________________________________________

DEPOSITION UPON ORAL EXAMINATION BEFORE TRIAL OF

STEVE COOLEY

___________________________________________________________

DATE TAKEN: November 9, 2012REPORTED BY: BETH L. DRUMMOND, #2064

CORPOLONGO & ASSOCIATES REPORTING & REAL-TIME SPECIALISTS 114 West Magnolia, Suite 400-100 Bellingham, WA 98225 1(360) 671-6298 [email protected]

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1

2 A P P E A R A N C E S

3

4

5 ROBERT D. BUTLER, ATTORNEY AT LAW

6 Law Offices of Robert D. Butler 103 E. Holly, Suite 512

7 Bellingham, Washington 98225 360-734-3448

8 360-734-7975 [email protected]

9 For Paul Murphy

10

11 EMILY BESCHEN, ATTORNEY AT LAW Law Offices of Robert D. Butler

12 103 E. Holly, Suite 512 Bellingham, Washington 98225

13 360-734-3448 360-734-7975

14 [email protected] For Paul Murphy

15

16 DANIEL L. GIBSON, ATTORNEY AT LAW Whatcom County Prosecuting Attorney's Office

17 322 North Commercial, Suite 210 Bellingham, Washington, 98225

18 360-676-6692 360-738-2532

19 [email protected]

20 Also Present:

21 Paul Murphy Lori Murphy

22

23

24

25

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1 Deposition upon oral examination before trial

2 of STEVE COOLEY, in the above-entitled cause, taken at the

3 instance of Robert Butler, pursuant to Notice, at Executive

4 Conference Rooms, 311 Grand Avenue, City of Bellingham,

5 County of Whatcom, State of Washington, before Beth L.

6 Drummond, Certified Court Reporter and a Notary Public for

7 the State of Washington on November 9, 2012 at 10:00 a.m.

8

9 EXAMINATION INDEX

10

11 EXAMINATION BY PAGE

12 Mr. Butler 4

13

14

15

16 EXHIBIT INDEX

17 EXHIBITS FOR IDENTIFICATION PAGE1 15-Page Document 4

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

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1 STEVE COOLEY, having first been duly sworn, was examined and

2 testified as follows:

3

4 EXAMINATION

5 BY MR. BUTLER:

6 Q. Good morning.

7 A. Good morning.

8 Q. You're here for your deposition related to the

9 pending matter regarding Paul Murphy's termination from the

10 county sheriff's.

11 Are you aware of that?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Have you ever had your deposition taken before?

14 A. I've been present for many depositions. I can't

15 recall I've actually been deposed formally or not.

16 Q. Okay. You were just placed under oath.

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. The purpose of this is discovery, to find out

19 what you know and how you know it so that we can rely on

20 your testimony today to be consistent with any future

21 hearings.

22 If there's any time when you don't understand a

23 question and my voice drops or it's muddled or whatever,

24 feel free to ask for clarification.

25 A. (Witness nods head.)

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1 Q. The court reporter's taking it all down, so it's

2 important that the record is made with a knowing answer to a

3 question.

4 Also, the court reporter can only take one voice

5 at a time, so I'll try not to step on your answer. If you

6 try to wait until my question is done, it will make her job

7 a lot easier.

8 And because we are about four feet apart, normal

9 human interaction includes a lot of body language

10 communication, nods, eyes, stuff like that. In a

11 deposition, we need everything to be a verbal response.

12 Like I said before we were on the record, I don't

13 anticipate this being too long. If you need a break, let us

14 know. We have water, and the County could probably come up

15 with something else for you, if you want.

16 (Discussion held off the record.)

17 BY MR. BUTLER:

18 Q. Okay. Let's start with your background.

19 Foundationally, where are you employed?

20 A. Whatcom County Sheriff's Office.

21 Q. How long have you been so employed?

22 A. It's going on over 14 years.

23 Q. And what position do you currently hold?

24 A. I'm the inspector.

25 Q. How long have you been inspector?

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1 A. Going into my fourth year.

2 Q. And what does an inspector do?

3 A. I'm responsible for internal or administrative

4 investigations, complaint handling, policies and procedure

5 development, and a variety of other smaller jobs. Like I

6 help with public disclosure requests, maintenance of our web

7 site, stuff like that.

8 Q. Okay. We're obviously focused today not so much

9 on the maintenance and the development of policies and stuff

10 but your investigative function.

11 How are you tasked with an investigation?

12 A. Either the sheriff or the undersheriff --

13 Q. Okay.

14 A. -- basically, orders me to conduct an

15 investigation.

16 Q. Are you allowed to just independently launch an

17 investigation into a deputy in the department?

18 A. No.

19 Q. Have you ever initiated your own investigation

20 without a directive from either the sheriff or undersheriff?

21 A. No.

22 Q. Okay. So how do you do your job with regards to

23 the investigation side, the internal investigation side?

24 The sheriff says -- how is -- let's start at the top.

25 How is it communicated to you? And then we'll

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1 walk through kind of a generic of what you do.

2 A. Okay. Either a chief deputy or the undersheriff

3 or the sheriff or a combination of any of those will come to

4 me and say they have an issue, perhaps possible misconduct

5 by an employee.

6 Q. Okay.

7 A. There's usually a discussion or two about how we

8 should best handle that, and then out of that discussion

9 can -- one of the outcomes can be, we need you to conduct an

10 administrative investigation.

11 Q. Is the initiation oral or is there a memo, an

12 e-mail? How does the initiation take place?

13 A. It is normally written.

14 Q. Okay. And do you know who maintains that

15 writing; if that writing is maintained in your office or if

16 that writing is maintained in the sheriff and undersheriff's

17 office?

18 A. I maintain a copy in the investigative file. I

19 believe that the undersheriff would maintain a copy as well,

20 but I don't know for certain.

21 Q. Okay. A great example of a rule I forgot to

22 mention. If you don't know --

23 A. Say I don't know?

24 Q. Say you don't know, and we can explore what it is

25 you do and don't know.

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1 I'm asking -- the intent of my questions are to

2 ask what you know. And if I want to have you speculate as

3 to what somebody else did, I'll try to clarify that.

4 So great anticipation of the rules as to whether

5 or not somebody else does something with the paper.

6 Okay. Somebody from up -- is it a hierarchy, a

7 chain-of-command-type thing? Would that be fair to say that

8 a sheriff or undersheriff is above you?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. So somebody from above says, "Steve, we want you

11 to do an investigation?"

12 A. (Witness nods head.)

13 Q. What do you do first when you get that directive?

14 A. Well, as part of that discussion that I

15 mentioned, the administrative investigations are normally

16 launched based on some allegation of misconduct.

17 Q. Okay.

18 A. So during that discussion with me, the chief or

19 the undersheriff or the sheriff, whoever it happens to be,

20 will tell me what they believe the misconduct has occurred.

21 What I do with that, then, is I look through our

22 policies and determine if there is potentially a violation

23 of policy because that's what the internal investigations

24 are supposed to be based on.

25 Q. Okay.

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1 A. And so then I will draft the advisement,

2 basically, to the subject of the investigation or subjects,

3 which advises them, among other things, of the possible

4 policies that they have violated.

5 Q. Okay.

6 A. So that's the next step.

7 Q. To your knowledge, is the sheriff aware of each

8 of your investigations?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. Okay. So when you say the undersheriff may give

11 you a directive, are you aware of any investigations that

12 you've been tasked with that the sheriff wasn't aware of?

13 I mean, you've never talked to him about it. He

14 never inquired about it. You have no idea if he knew

15 because that --

16 A. As far as I know, he's been aware of all of the

17 investigations with which I've been tasked.

18 Q. Okay. So we got the directive. We've got you

19 looking at policy.

20 And then, if I have my chronology right, the next

21 thing after you've looked at policy, if you find a policy

22 that may be relevant, you shoot it out to the subject or the

23 target. And what happens next?

24 A. Well, then I'll start conducting the

25 investigative -- the actual meat of the investigation, if

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1 you will.

2 Q. Okay.

3 A. That could -- okay.

4 Q. The target gets your -- what does the target get

5 from you at the initiation?

6 A. As part of the guild collective bargaining

7 agreement with the County, we are required to advise them of

8 the target or the subject within 15 days.

9 And there's an actual specific form contained in

10 the bargaining agreement that I issue, and that's what they

11 get.

12 And that includes an advisement if there's an

13 investigation, what class the investigation is, and the

14 general nature of the investigation.

15 Q. Okay.

16 A. So they're made aware of the circumstances

17 surrounding the investigation.

18 Q. Tell me about the 15 days.

19 A. Okay.

20 Q. What does that refer to?

21 A. By contract, again, it's very specifically worded

22 in the collective bargaining agreement that the clock starts

23 ticking the first day that the sheriff's office --

24 essentially a command staff member or someone outside the

25 bargaining unit or above the chain of command outside the

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1 bargaining unit -- becomes aware of possible misconduct.

2 That is when the clock on the 15 days starts ticking.

3 So we have to make a decision within those 15

4 days whether or not to conduct an investigation and then to

5 advise the employee.

6 Q. What happens if you get to day 20?

7 What happens if you're outside the 15 per the

8 contract -- to your understanding of the contract?

9 A. Well, that specifically is not covered in the

10 contract. I believe that would impact possibly our ability

11 to eventually discipline the employee for that conduct.

12 Q. Okay. So the operating principle is, kind of,

13 promptness?

14 Is that what the 15 days is about, that you don't

15 kind of store up old investigations-type thing?

16 A. Yes, exactly.

17 Q. Okay. So they get the contractual notice that

18 we're looking at this, and that advises them of the class of

19 investigation.

20 Tell me about the class, your understanding of

21 the class.

22 A. That in the policy manual, our investigations are

23 divided into two classes, Class I and Class II.

24 Class I's are generally for much more serious,

25 potentially serious misconduct. The general benchmark that

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1 divides the two is: A Class I would be any sort of

2 misconduct that may result in an economic impact to the

3 employee or more, up to and including termination.

4 Class II would be more what we don't anticipate

5 initially would result in economic impact; perhaps, at

6 worst, a letter of reprimand or something like that.

7 Q. Who makes that determination?

8 A. It's made jointly between myself and, usually,

9 the undersheriff.

10 Q. Okay. All right. Do you ever provide an

11 investigation service for other agencies other than Whatcom

12 County Sheriff?

13 A. I have not in the past.

14 Q. Okay. Do each law enforcement agency have you?

15 Does everybody have internal investigators such as yourself?

16 A. Certainly not one assigned to that specific duty,

17 but my understanding is most agencies in our county have

18 someone that would do such an investigation.

19 Q. Okay.

20 A. If one were to arise.

21 Q. Okay. All right. What about a conflict?

22 I mean, I'm assuming if Elfo had concern about

23 Steve Cooley, he wouldn't task Inspector Cooley to do that

24 investigation.

25 What happens if there's a conflict?

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1 A. There's several options. One would be, as you

2 just mentioned, you could go outside the agency and ask for

3 someone from another agency to do it. That would be one

4 option.

5 Q. Have you ever been aware of Whatcom County going

6 outside of the agency to conduct an investigation of one of

7 their own?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Can you tell me who?

10 A. Who the investigation's about or who did it?

11 Q. Yes, both. Let's start with who did the

12 investigation.

13 A. Okay. Yes. Chief Napa, Ferndale, conducted, I

14 believe, an internal review. I don't know if you would call

15 it an investigation, but did some work for the sheriff along

16 those lines.

17 Q. Okay. Without giving the name of the target --

18 MR. BUTLER: So that you can keep breathing easy

19 over there, Dan.

20 BY MR. BUTLER:

21 Q. -- roughly, you know, what year was that?

22 A. Let's think. Very roughly 2006/2007.

23 Q. Okay.

24 A. It was about a year before I became the

25 inspector.

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1 Q. All right. Are you aware of other

2 external/internals?

3 A. I can't recall any specifics.

4 Q. Okay.

5 A. Right now, but that doesn't mean there aren't

6 any.

7 Q. All right. Do you know Paul Murphy?

8 A. I do.

9 Q. How do you know Paul?

10 A. He was a deputy with the sheriff's office.

11 Q. Okay. Have you ever had any conflict with Paul

12 in your professional career together?

13 A. Yes. I think I would say that we have had

14 conflict.

15 Q. Okay. When you were tasked -- assuming facts not

16 in evidence. We haven't got into it. You did the

17 investigation in this case.

18 When you were tasked with the investigation, did

19 you raise that issue and say, "Maybe I'm not the right

20 person to do this"?

21 A. I may not have said those words, but I raised the

22 issue of getting an outside investigator.

23 Q. Who did you raise that to?

24 A. The sheriff.

25 Q. And at what point in time did you raise that,

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1 when you've just given me your chronology of what you do?

2 A. Before I was tasked with doing the investigation

3 itself, as we were discussing what the possible misconduct

4 was.

5 Q. Okay. So you had received a memo?

6 A. And --

7 Q. And it said, "Do this investigation."

8 And then you went back and said, I don't know if

9 I'm the right -- essentially, I'm not sure that I'm the

10 right person type thing or --

11 A. I believe I raised it first before I received the

12 memo, when I was first made aware that there was a potential

13 investigation to be done.

14 Q. Okay. And was anybody else involved in that

15 conversation?

16 A. We were not alone in the room, but I can't recall

17 who all was there. I'm relatively confident the

18 undersheriff was a part of that discussion and, perhaps,

19 Chief Chadwick.

20 Q. Okay. Do you recall what else was discussed in

21 that room in that meeting?

22 A. No, I don't -- I mean, I don't even recall the

23 specific meeting and who was there, but I recall having that

24 discussion and making that statement.

25 Q. Was that the first meeting related to this

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1 investigation or was it related to something else and you

2 just said, "Oh, hey. By the way, yesterday when you tasked

3 me with this thing, I don't think I should do it"?

4 A. I don't remember.

5 Q. Do you remember what it was that you said to

6 Elfo, Sheriff Elfo, about it?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. What'd you say?

9 A. I said for appearance's sake it may be better for

10 the agency if we seek to have an outside entity do this

11 internal investigation.

12 I told him I was perfectly capable of doing an

13 objective investigation; however, for appearances' sake, it

14 may be better for the sheriff's office to seek outside

15 assistance.

16 Q. Okay. Obviously, you did the investigation. So

17 that decision was made above you, correct?

18 A. Correct.

19 Q. All right. How many investigations have you done

20 into Paul?

21 A. Paul? Two, including the current one that we're

22 speaking about.

23 Q. All right. And the first one was when?

24 A. I don't remember exact dates, but I would say it

25 was -- it was more towards the beginning. I want to say

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1 2010, but that's a guess.

2 Q. That's correct, actually.

3 A. Okay.

4 Q. Do you remember the outcome?

5 A. What do you mean by "outcome"?

6 Q. What happened? Not what the allegation was, but

7 what was the result?

8 A. You mean, as far as discipline goes?

9 Q. Uh-huh.

10 A. I believe he received a letter of reprimand.

11 Q. Do you recall if it was a Class I or a Class II?

12 A. I believe it was a Class I.

13 Q. The task that you were given in 2012, the current

14 one, was that assigned as a Class I or a Class II?

15 A. It was a Class I.

16 Q. Was there discussion about it being a Class I or

17 a Class II?

18 A. Not that I recall.

19 Q. Is there usually discussion at the inception of

20 an investigation, whether it be a I or a II?

21 A. No. I wouldn't say there's usually a discussion.

22 As part of the process of me going and looking to

23 see what potential policies were violated, I will look at

24 what's the most appropriate level.

25 The only Class II I've ever done is one I'm

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1 currently assigned to.

2 Q. Okay.

3 A. And all of the other ones I've done are

4 Class I's.

5 Q. All right. How many investigations of the

6 Class I, Class II do you do a year?

7 A. I don't have the exact number, of course. Do you

8 want me to estimate how many I do per year?

9 Q. Yes, please.

10 A. Well, this year I've had three. I'm currently

11 assigned to my third one. For instance, 2009 was a very

12 busy year. I did probably on the order of ten.

13 So it varies.

14 Q. Okay. Was there anything in this investigation

15 that was unique or stood out as different than other

16 investigations?

17 And by that, I'm not talking about the facts

18 because each case would factually be different, but was

19 there anything in the process that was different than any

20 other investigation?

21 A. Nothing comes to mind, but I'm not exactly sure

22 what you mean.

23 Q. Okay. Did you do anything different in this

24 investigation procedurally than you would do in any other

25 investigation?

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1 A. No.

2 Q. Were the time lines the same in this

3 investigation as any other investigation that you've done?

4 A. There were -- yes. The time line's always the

5 same. However, in this case, there were a couple of

6 extensions.

7 Q. Okay. What caused the extensions?

8 A. Well, one of them, we -- essentially, we

9 discovered some new evidence towards the very end of the

10 time line.

11 Q. Okay.

12 A. And so we needed time to process that and include

13 it.

14 Q. Okay. And what evidence was that?

15 A. I'm trying to remember -- I -- can I look at my

16 report?

17 Q. You bet.

18 A. Okay. I don't recall exactly what the extension

19 was.

20 Q. And while you're flipping, the notebook you're

21 flipping through is what?

22 A. The original copy of my investigation.

23 Q. Okay.

24 (Pause in the proceedings.)

25 A. I believe it was the -- my discovery that the

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1 hard drive in the computer in question was not, in fact, the

2 original one that was issued to Deputy Murphy when he first

3 got it.

4 In other words, my discovery of the -- that the

5 migration process had caused a switch in the hard drives.

6 Q. Okay. Anything else cause an extension?

7 A. Not that I'm aware of.

8 Q. Okay. All right. Did you prepare a synopsis of

9 your investigation?

10 A. I prepared an investigative report that begins

11 with a synopsis, yes.

12 Q. And --

13 (Exhibit 1 marked for identification.)

14 BY MR. BUTLER:

15 Q. Showing you what's been marked as Exhibit 1, do

16 you recognize that 15-page document as a document that you

17 prepared in this case?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. And is it, essentially, a summary kind of outline

20 of what you did and what that notebook in front of you

21 contains?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Okay. For ease of kind of the questions, I

24 figured we'd use the synopsis since it's less paper.

25 A. Okay.

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1 Q. But at any time if there's a question posed to

2 you that the full investigation would assist you with, just

3 let me know and you can identify what it is you're looking

4 at.

5 A. Okay.

6 Q. Okay. When did you write this?

7 A. At the end of the investigation process.

8 Q. When was that?

9 A. Well, I don't know the exact date that I started

10 on it, but I would have finished it around the date I

11 submitted it, which is May 4th of 2012.

12 Q. Okay. The end of the first paragraph ends with

13 "particularly via ACCESS."

14 Do you see that?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. What is that? What's ACCESS?

17 A. ACCESS is an acronym, which I may not be able to

18 produce for you right now. But basically, that is a

19 Washington State computer system that allows law enforcement

20 to check, among many other things, criminal records,

21 criminal history.

22 And it's basically our link to the national crime

23 index computer and the Washington State Crime Index Computer

24 or Crime Information Computer. I forget what that acronym

25 is as well.

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1 Q. Okay. So that was a concern, correct?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Did you find any evidence that it had been

4 accessed by Paul Murphy?

5 A. No. You mean, improperly?

6 Q. Yeah.

7 A. No.

8 Q. The last paragraph on that page identifies a

9 handgun issue. Do you see that, "by refusing to relinquish

10 his duty handgun"?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. How did that resolve?

13 A. What do you mean by "resolve"?

14 Q. Did he ultimately give his handgun or did the

15 county realize it was his handgun? How did that issue

16 resolve?

17 A. He ultimately turned over his handgun.

18 Q. If you go to Page 2, you have your section of

19 allegations. Do you see that?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. And there's seven, correct?

22 A. Correct.

23 Q. And how did these come into existence?

24 Were these allegations that you formulated or

25 were these the allegations that were handed to you to look

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1 into?

2 A. As I described before, the -- as part of the

3 process of me beginning an investigation and developing that

4 memo that's given to -- ultimately, to the subject, I take

5 what the alleged conduct is and look through the policy

6 manual to figure out what, if any, policies that may have

7 violated now, and then I translate those into numbered

8 allegations.

9 During the course of an investigation, if I

10 discover additional possible misconduct, I add allegations

11 to that sheet.

12 Q. Okay. Are any of these added?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Which ones were added?

15 A. Let's see. Certainly 5, 6, and 7, and possibly

16 4. I can't remember if that one was added. I believe 4 was

17 added, also.

18 Q. Okay. And we'll go through them, I think, in a

19 bit more detail. The findings of fact, which start on Page

20 4 --

21 A. Uh-huh.

22 Q. So we have a synopsis. We have the allegations.

23 We have findings of fact, and then we have conclusions,

24 correct?

25 A. Yes.

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1 Q. Is that a template that you're tasked with

2 completing or is that something that you made up for this

3 case?

4 A. It's a template that I use to conduct every

5 internal investigation.

6 Q. Okay. Do you determine who you interview, what

7 information you look at, or is that tasked to you?

8 A. I largely determine who I interview.

9 Q. All right. Finding of Fact No. 6 states, in

10 short, that the county got the Toughbooks on -- on April 4th

11 of 2006.

12 Do you see that?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. And 7, Murphy didn't get 17445 until 2008,

15 correct?

16 A. That's correct.

17 Q. All right. When we interviewed or took Perry

18 Rice's deposition yesterday -- when you were looking at

19 these findings, the 6 and 7, and drawing your conclusions,

20 did you speak with Perry Rice?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Okay. He indicated that he doesn't know because

23 they didn't check, what hard drives were actually in the

24 units that arrived.

25 So do you have independent knowledge that on

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1 April 13th, 2006, that all 40 of those hard drives were 80

2 gigabyte?

3 A. The knowledge I have is based on the enclosure

4 that the finding of fact references.

5 Q. Okay.

6 A. Which would be Enclosure 20 in Finding of Fact 6.

7 Q. And why don't you flip to Enclosure 20 and see if

8 that's anything more than a purchase order.

9 A. It's a computer printout of purchase order

10 information and asset data information.

11 Q. Okay. Do you know as you sit here now if the

12 company shipped a -- the proper order?

13 A. I have no way of independently verifying that,

14 no.

15 Q. Okay. And it wasn't assigned to Deputy Murphy

16 initially, correct?

17 A. Correct.

18 Q. And I think later we see that you talked to

19 Deputy Roth and asked him if he changed out the hard drive,

20 and he said no?

21 A. Correct.

22 Q. Did you clarify with Deputy Roth whether or not

23 it was an 80 gig?

24 A. No. I don't believe I did.

25 Q. Okay. Finding No. 8 is -- reads that, "In or

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1 around September of 2010, Whatcom County Administrative

2 Services Information Technology Division -- short for IT --

3 recalled all owned Panasonic Toughbook computers issued to

4 the sheriff's office so they could be reconfigured to work

5 with the county's new Windows server platform.

6 By design, this migration also eliminated

7 individual users' ability to install software on the

8 computers, as well as make significant changes to the

9 computers' configurations without the assistance of IT.

10 Do you see that finding?

11 A. I do.

12 Q. Prior to the migration, were there rules around

13 putting software on and making changes to computers?

14 A. Rules as in policies or -- what do you mean by

15 "rules"?

16 Q. Well, the last sentence --

17 A. Uh-huh.

18 Q. -- seems to be specifically written. And you

19 authored this, correct?


21 Q. And so it says "By design, this migration

22 also" -- so it was an upgrade to Windows or whatever -- but

23 it "also eliminated individual users' ability to install

24 software."

25 So was there an issue about individuals' ability

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1 to install software before?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Okay. And then your sentence also goes on to

4 say, "as well as make significant changes."

5 A. Right.

6 Q. And was that also going on and this migration

7 changed that?

8 A. I don't know how much it was going on, but I know

9 that users had the capability to make system changes and to

10 add software to the computers. They had the physical. They

11 were not blocked electronically by the computer itself from

12 making those types of changes.

13 Q. Okay. And then in speaking with Perry yesterday,

14 now, as we sit here in 2012 --

15 A. Uh-huh.

16 Q. -- the objective or kind of the understanding is

17 the employees of Whatcom County don't mess with their

18 computers; IT does.

19 Is that your understanding of it?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. And I take from this finding that before the

22 migration, it was a little bit looser out there?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Okay. Finding No. 9, IT staff went to migrate.

25 Who -- do you know which staff member found the

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1 20?

2 A. Let me look -- if I could look at the enclosure,

3 it references there.

4 Q. Sure, you bet. And any time I ask that, if you

5 don't have the independent memory --

6 A. Yeah, yeah.

7 Q. -- then absolutely, that's what I want you to do

8 is say, "I don't recall" and look at 17, kind of thing.

9 A. Okay. Yeah. The third page of Enclosure 17 is a

10 Toughbook migration data sheet that I was provided by John

11 Dalquist of IT.

12 John told me that several different peoples'

13 handwriting is on this piece of paper, including his. He

14 did not recall who wrote some of the other stuff. He also

15 did not recall who, specifically -- whether it was him or

16 anyone else -- actually pulled the physical drive out of the

17 Toughbook computer, but it eventually came into his -- it

18 was given to him to keep.

19 Q. Okay. And as I understand it, he's kind of the

20 IT guy designated to the sheriff's department.

21 Is that your understanding?

22 A. Yes. That is my understanding.

23 Q. Is it your understanding from that conversation

24 that created No. 9 that that's why he got the 20 gig as

25 opposed to somebody else?

COPY


1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Okay. Did he indicate when they took it out that

3 there was anything wrong with the computer?

4 A. I don't understand what you mean.

5 Q. Was the computer functional?

6 A. I don't think he indicated to me one way or the

7 other. I think they just -- my understanding was that they

8 simply -- oh. Actually, wait a minute. Let me think.

9 What -- yes. What he told me was that when the

10 staff went to migrate the computer or whatever that

11 involves, which is basically -- my understanding of it is

12 basically overriding everything that's on the hard drive. I

13 believe it's called an image that they were attempting to

14 write onto the hard drive. That process stalled.

15 And then when the process stalled, in trying to

16 figure out why it stalled, that's when they discovered that

17 the hard drive was smaller than anticipated.

18 Q. Okay. So it was the addition of the Windows

19 server platform and shifting it over that caused them to be

20 aware that this computer was somehow different?

21 A. Yes. I believe that's correct.

22 Q. I'm assuming you asked if it powered up and

23 otherwise was doing fine?

24 A. I didn't ask that.

25 Q. Okay. How did you come to find No. 9 in 2012 in

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1 this investigation?

2 A. Sorry. I'm not with you.

3 Q. Well, that event happened in 2010.

4 A. Are you talking about Finding of Fact No. 9?

5 Q. Yeah.

6 A. Okay.

7 Q. So why in 2012 are you -- did you already know

8 about that?

9 A. No.

10 Q. How is it that you came to know about Nos. 8 and

11 9 in this investigation in 2012?

12 A. Because it -- we were not made aware that that

13 had occurred until that time. At least I was not aware that

14 that occurred.

15 Q. Okay. How did you become aware of it at this

16 time?

17 A. During the questioning of John Dalquist.

18 Q. Describe for me the questioning that led to this

19 information.

20 A. Um --

21 Q. Why did you, for example, talk to John Dalquist

22 in this investigation?

23 A. Because he's the main person who takes care of

24 computers that the sheriff's office uses.

25 Q. Okay.

COPY


1 A. So I was originally talking to him to see if he

2 was aware of the cloning issue of whether or not Deputy

3 Murphy had approached him about cloning a hard drive.

4 Q. Okay. And what did he say about that?

5 A. He was not aware of -- he told me he was not

6 aware of that. He never discussed that.

7 Q. Okay. And did you inquire of him if he would be

8 able to know if a computer was accessing the server or

9 ACCESS remotely inappropriately?

10 A. I don't recall the exact discussions that we had.

11 I have a summary of my interview, of course, in here with

12 John.

13 Q. Uh-huh.

14 A. I can certainly refer to that if you'd like.

15 Q. If I ask a question and you think you remember

16 information --

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Because otherwise I'd like to keep it present.

19 A. I don't understand. Explain.

20 Q. If when I ask you a question, you think that,

21 Yeah, I covered that in here. I don't remember what it was.

22 Let me look at my notes.

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Absolutely.

25 A. Okay.

COPY


1 Q. But if that initial trigger of "I don't remember

2 ever talking to him about it," we don't need to take time to

3 read all the pages to see.

4 A. Yeah. I don't recall all the specific questions

5 I asked him during that interview, so I would have to look

6 at that.

7 Q. During the course of this investigation, would

8 that have been part of your inquiry, the technical detection

9 of a cloned hard drive?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. Okay. And in any of your interviews, did you

12 determine that there was a violation, if you will, of the

13 county server or ACCESS by a different computer?

14 A. What I was able to determine was that I would be

15 unable to determine that because if the hard drive being

16 used to access it was, in fact, an exact copy or a clone,

17 there would be no way for ACCESS or for our system to be

18 able to tell us that.

19 Q. Even though you would potentially have two of the

20 same licenses accessing the computer?

21 A. That's my understanding. With regards to ACCESS

22 specifically --

23 Q. And I apologize. In that one, I wasn't using the

24 statewide system. I was just talking about gaining entry

25 into the server.

COPY


1 A. My understanding from my discussions with IT

2 personnel was that they would not be able to determine if

3 Deputy Murphy had used a cloned hard drive in his computer

4 to access county systems.

5 Q. Okay. Finding No. 10 is -- it says on

6 February 7th.

7 A. Uh-huh.

8 Q. Is that when this started, this investigation?

9 A. That is the event that prompted the start of this

10 investigation.

11 Q. Okay. Prior to February 7, had you been tasked

12 with watching Paul Murphy in any way?

13 A. I was tasked by the sheriff with monitoring his

14 posts to the internet.

15 Q. And what did the sheriff say about that? What do

16 you recall that task being?

17 A. We had been approached by -- not me directly --

18 other employees had approached other staff members about

19 some of the posts that Deputy Murphy was making,

20 particularly to his Facebook page, that were negative

21 towards the sheriff's office and some of its personnel. And

22 the sheriff told me to watch them, basically.

23 Q. When do you recall that task being assigned?

24 A. I'm not going to recall a specific date, but it

25 was sometime before this occurred.

COPY


1 Q. Okay. Do you recall the form of communication

2 used between you and Sheriff Elfo on that subject?

3 A. Yes. It was verbal.

4 Q. Verbal?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Do you recall any e-mails or memos?

7 A. I don't recall a specific e-mail. One could have

8 occurred. I know he's forwarded me an e-mail or two asking

9 me to keep a particular fact or something that had been

10 discovered regarding Deputy Murphy. And, you know,

11 basically, "File this."

12 But no. I don't recall a specific e-mail where

13 he said, "Do this."

14 Q. All right. Do you recall being involved or

15 inquiring of counsel whether you guys could move forward and

16 fire Deputy Murphy for his Facebook posts?

17 A. I was involved in one specific post that deputy

18 Murphy made in which counsel was consulted about whether it

19 was actionable disciplinary-wise.

20 Q. And do you remember when that was? Within a

21 month?

22 A. Let me think. Well, it was after this one. This

23 particular investigation that we're speaking of started

24 because the number of the investigation was the second one

25 of the year.

COPY


1 So it sometime after this one was initiated, but

2 I can't recall how long afterwards, but not long after.

3 Q. And what was the subject of the second

4 investigation into Paul Murphy in 2012?

5 A. Deputy Murphy made a post on his Facebook page of

6 a picture of a burning Kuran with the statement to the

7 effect that, "I will not be apologizing either," and there

8 was concern.

9 I reported that post to Sheriff Elfo, and I

10 believe he was concerned that that would be a violation of

11 policy.

12 Q. Was that -- when we were talking about monitoring

13 Facebook, you were monitoring Facebook, though, before

14 February 7, correct?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Okay. And the Investigation No. 2, the Kuran,

17 was after February 7, correct?

18 A. I believe so, yes.

19 Q. Okay. Did you monitor anybody else's Facebook at

20 the department at Elfo's request?

21 A. No.

22 Q. Okay. Did you happen to observe other people --

23 other deputies' Facebook posts while you were monitoring

24 Deputy Murphy's posts?

25 A. Yes.

COPY


1 Q. And did you report or take screen shots or pass

2 those back up?

3 A. I remember one specific post, but I don't believe

4 I reported it. I believe it was seen by another staff

5 member.

6 Q. Okay. Do you remember the content of the posts

7 that Sheriff Elfo wanted you to monitor?

8 A. He -- it wasn't specific. It was basically

9 anything that was derogatory about the sheriff's office or

10 its employees that would potentially violate our policies.

11 And, also, there was some concern that -- I'm

12 trying to remember -- the emotional tenor of some of his

13 posts were getting more -- the degree of emotion appeared to

14 some people to be getting higher, and so there was concern

15 that he was becoming extremely uptight and tense.

16 Q. Okay. And are you aware of how long the

17 department was concerned about his emotional wellbeing?

18 A. No.

19 Q. Did it predate 2011?

20 A. I guess I don't know what you mean by "emotional

21 wellbeing."

22 Q. Well, you just said the concern was the emotional

23 tenor.

24 A. Yeah.

25 Q. Was that a new concern or was that an ongoing

COPY


1 concern?

2 A. The emotional tenor, I believe that was basically

3 a new concern.

4 Q. Okay. At the beginning, I asked about your

5 position, and we've narrowed into the investigation. You

6 also talked about policy stuff.

7 In 2011, did the sheriff's department have a

8 social network, social media policy?

9 A. No. And we still do not.

10 Q. Okay. Are you looking at it?

11 A. We have --

12 Q. In the process of changing anything?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Do you know where that is in the process? Is it,

15 like, just in the back of your mind or have you forwarded

16 memos up and they're being -- kind of where in the

17 process --

18 A. We have completed what we would like to publish

19 as a policy and submitted it to the unions for review and

20 the guild. The Deputy Sheriff's Guild has basically

21 demanded to arbitrate or demanded to bargain; I'm sorry --

22 in that process. So it's in the bargaining process

23 somewhere, of which I am not a part.

24 Q. Okay. Back to the synopsis. Finding No. 11, it

25 says that "Ross Miller Larson and Edge called Murphy to the

COPY


1 Laurel station."

2 Do you see that?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Why was Ross Miller there?

5 A. He is -- was in Murphy's direct chain of command,

6 and he is a command staff member. And he was the one tasked

7 with doing that by, I believe, Chief Chapman.

8 Q. Why was Larson there?

9 A. She was the shift Sergeant at the time, I

10 believe.

11 Q. Why was Edge there?

12 A. I don't know.

13 Q. Is it normal to have that much firepower present

14 for asking a deputy for a computer?

15 A. This is one of the only times, if not the only

16 time, I could recall we asked a deputy for their computer.

17 So I don't know if it's normal or not.

18 Q. Did that happen at your direction? Did you say,

19 We need to get his computer for my investigation?

20 A. I believe that the determination that it needed

21 to be seized was -- was already -- that decision had already

22 been made by the time I became a part of this, but it was

23 probably part of a discussion I was involved in.

24 Q. Okay. When you were looking at seizing the

25 computer, what were you looking to find? What were you

COPY


1 expecting to find?

2 A. Well, again, I don't believe I was the one who

3 directed it be seized, but a group of staff members

4 discussed it. The main concern that started -- one of the

5 main concerns that started the investigation is that Deputy

6 Murphy may be using a cloned or unauthorized copy of a hard

7 drive to access sensitive information.

8 And because it was a -- inherently, possibly not

9 a clone that was controlled by the county, there was

10 concerns about the security of that information.

11 Q. Were you looking for anything else to be on the

12 hard drive content-wise?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. What was the discussion of what people thought

15 might be there?

16 A. The other part of the -- the other reason -- the

17 other main reason that prompted the investigation was a

18 statement Deputy Murphy made about files that he had on his

19 computer that he didn't want people to see.

20 And so there was a concern that he was keeping

21 files on the computer that he had not made his supervisor

22 aware -- supervisors aware of.

23 Q. Okay. Deputy Murphy had previously complained

24 about -- to kind of use a gross term -- corruption in the

25 department, correct?

COPY


1 A. Yes.

2 Q. He previously complained about management not

3 following through with investigations that he thought were

4 viable and important, correct?

5 A. I don't know if I'm aware of that or not.

6 Q. Mandy (phonetic) stabbing homicide?

7 A. Yeah. Again, rumor. I might have heard a little

8 bit about that, but I wasn't directly involved in that.

9 Q. Okay. What had you heard him complain about

10 regarding operation of the sheriff's department? I mean, I

11 don't want to go through the rumors and have you go, Yeah, I

12 didn't hear that from him.

13 So what do you know of him complaining about

14 before February 7th, 2012?

15 A. Essentially, only what was on his Facebook page

16 that I saw.

17 Q. What do you recall seeing?

18 A. General comments that there was corruption at the

19 sheriff's office. I don't recall a lot of specifics about

20 what specific corruption there was, particularly to the

21 sheriff's office. I do remember -- yeah. I'd have to --

22 yeah. I'm not remembering specifics.

23 I know there were maybe a couple of issues he was

24 discussing, but just general sheriff's office is corrupt.

25 Q. Okay. What or how many Facebook pages were you

COPY


1 monitoring of Paul Murphy?

2 A. How many pages or -- he only has one Facebook

3 account that I was monitoring.

4 Does that answer your question?

5 Q. What account is that?

6 A. It's the one called Paul Murphy.

7 Q. Did you look at any other Facebook pages that

8 Paul Murphy posted on?

9 A. I have, yes.

10 Q. Which ones?

11 A. Oh, boy. Let's see if I can remember. I don't

12 -- I'm not sure I'm going to remember whether it was

13 Facebook pages or other websites.

14 Q. Okay.

15 A. There was one, and I honestly don't remember the

16 name. It's a group of -- I want to say veterans or police

17 officers who discuss the circumstances under which they will

18 take orders or not. And they're swearing basically that

19 they're not going to obey certain types of orders.

20 I don't recall the name of that group. That is a

21 website that he posted to and that I looked at -- or that he

22 reposted on his own Facebook page.

23 Q. Okay.

24 A. That's the one that comes to mind.

25 Q. Any others come to mind?

COPY


1 A. One other one, and it's called the Northwest

2 Conservative -- and I don't remember the last name. It's a

3 three word title. Northwest Conservative Corps or

4 something. That's not the right word.

5 Q. And that's different than the orders one that you

6 talked about before?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Did you observe any Facebook posts by Paul

9 regarding the election; who he supported in the sheriff's

10 election?

11 A. Oh, yes.

12 Q. What do you recall around that?

13 A. I believe he initially supported Bob Taylor, and

14 then when Bob Taylor did not advance past the primary, he

15 supported Steve Harris.

16 Q. On what sites or Facebook pages did you glean

17 that from?

18 A. Just his Facebook page. I probably also looked

19 at Bob Taylor's and Steve Harris's election Facebook pages;

20 not their personal ones.

21 Q. Okay. With regards to Finding No. 22, this one

22 says, "The investigator asked Murphy" -- throughout this

23 report, you write in the third person; is that correct?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. And so when the investigator asks something,

COPY


1 that's Steve Cooley asks?


3 Q. "Was the hard drive that was issued with this --

4 with that computer, Toughbook, to you inside the computer on

5 February 10, 2012?"

6 That was your question?

7 A. No.

8 Q. Well, with the parenthesis of Toughbook on

9 February 10, 2012?

10 A. Yes. The information in parenthesis I did not --

11 was not part of the question. I added those to clarify.

12 Q. In your writing?

13 A. In my writing, that's correct.

14 Q. Okay. And Murphy responded no.


16 Q. That's a true statement, correct?

17 A. I believe so. I took it straight from the

18 transcript.

19 Q. Okay. But, I mean, the computer that you

20 seized --

21 A. Oh --

22 Q. -- the hard drive that you seized was not the

23 hard drive that was in the county computer originally,

24 correct?

25 A. Correct.

COPY


1 Q. Because the county had changed it out?


3 Q. Deputy Murphy had an ongoing issue with ownership

4 of county property, correct?

5 A. With his handgun, yes.

6 Q. And arguably with his computer stuff, too,

7 correct?

8 A. The hard drive, yes.

9 Q. Was he correct regarding the handgun about the

10 ownership -- his belief that he owned the handgun?

11 A. I don't believe so, no. I believe one of my

12 findings states that.

13 Q. Okay. All right. I need to take a quick break

14 and we will resume. We're plowing right through.

15 A. Okay.

16 (Recess taken.)

17 BY MR. BUTLER:

18 Q. Okay. Back on the record.

19 No. 32, it says that you were unable to view the

20 files on the hard drive -- the 20 gigabyte hard drive?

21 A. I'm sorry. Say that again.

22 Q. Finding No. 32 says that you were unable to view

23 files on the 20 gigabyte hard drive?

24 A. Correct.

25 Q. Why?

COPY


1 A. I'm not probably the best person to answer that

2 question, but my understanding of why -- and this is

3 Detective Petson Ira (phonetic) from the Bellingham Police

4 Department told me once that it appeared that the -- I mean,

5 I don't remember the name of the file, but basically the

6 index that keeps track of where all the files are on the

7 hard drive had been obliterated or erased, possibly by the

8 migration process -- the beginning of the migration process.

9 And so there's a lot of data on the hard drive.

10 We just weren't able to make sense of it into files.

11 Q. Do you attribute that to Murphy?

12 A. I don't attribute it to anything. I have no

13 evidence one way or the other.

14 Q. Okay. In No. 31, just up from that --

15 A. Uh-huh.

16 Q. -- the last sentence is "electronically, because

17 a clone is an exact copy" -- do you see the next section?

18 A. Uh-huh.

19 Q. -- "the investigator was unable to find any

20 electronic evidence."

21 Since May when you drafted this, do you have any

22 additional evidence to put forward that says that the hard

23 drive that was seized is anything but the county's hard

24 drive?

25 A. Say that one more time.

COPY


1 Q. Sure. It says here that you were unable to find

2 any electronic evidence.

3 A. Which one is that?

4 Q. The end of 31.

5 A. Oh, right. Okay.

6 Q. My question is: Since you wrote this in May --

7 A. Uh-huh.

8 Q. -- we're now in November. Are you aware of any

9 additional evidence than what you had in May where you have

10 no evidence?

11 A. No. I'm not aware of any additional evidence.

12 Q. Okay. No. 34, you asked -- in short, you asked

13 Roth, and he said no with regards to changing out the hard

14 drive.

15 Do you see that?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. What was the difference from your perspective of

18 him saying no and Murphy saying no?

19 A. I don't know what you mean.

20 Q. Well, Paul Murphy said that he didn't change it

21 out too, correct, when he was initially -- said, "This is

22 mine" and "This is the same"; and he said, "Yes, he hadn't

23 changed it out"?

24 A. At one point he said that, yes. At one point he

25 said no.

COPY


1 Q. Correct. Why was his no not treated the same as

2 Roth's no?

3 A. Because Murphy gave different accounts.

4 Sometimes he said no, that he hadn't messed with -- that he

5 hadn't cloned it; sometimes he said yes. And then sometime

6 later, I think the last one was, he wasn't sure.

7 Q. Okay. And in 34, it refers to a Dell laptop,

8 too. Do you see that?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. Okay. Is this investigation solely about the

11 Toughbook or does it include prior laptops that were

12 assigned?

13 A. This just included the Toughbook.

14 Q. And why, then, do you have the Dell referenced in

15 the No. 34?

16 A. Just as a matter of -- that was the computer that

17 Roth had at the time, and I -- to be thorough. That, I

18 believe, was also the Dell that Deputy Murphy had had.

19 And so while I was talking with Roth, I just

20 said, "Had you messed with any computers, either that one or

21 the one you currently have"?

22 He said, "No."

23 Q. Okay. Did Roth know about the investigation into

24 Murphy and the computer and the hard drive issue?

25 A. I believe so.

COPY


1 Q. Okay. So would it have been in his interest to

2 have said yes?

3 A. To have said yes, meaning --

4 Q. That he changed out a hard drive.

5 A. I don't know.

6 Q. Well, isn't Murphy's in this investigation

7 because he said that he had changed out a hard drive?

8 A. That he had cloned a hard drive, yes.

9 Q. That he had changed out a hard drive and cloned?

10 A. Okay.

11 Q. Because we're talking about two hard drives

12 somewhere in here?

13 A. Right.

14 Q. And so wouldn't your investigative sense say that

15 of course Roth is going to say no, too, to avoid being

16 involved in an investigation like Murphy is?

17 A. That is one possibility.

18 Q. Okay. In No. 37, when the investigator asked

19 Murphy to describe the process he had used to clone the hard

20 drive, Murphy described it as a bit-for-bit exact copy.

21 Do you see that?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. When you were talking to Murphy, did you record

24 it? Did you record your interview?

25 A. Yes.

COPY


1 MR. BUTLER: We'll get a copy of that, Counsel?

2 We don't have a copy of the recorded interview.

3 MR. GIBSON: If you submit a request for it,

4 you'll get it.

5 MR. BUTLER: Okay.

6 BY MR. BUTLER:

7 Q. The audio may clarify, but do you know if your

8 question had a time link to it as far as when this clone had

9 happened?

10 A. I would have to look at the transcript of the

11 interview to determine that. I don't recall.

12 Q. Okay. Do you recall if you identified the

13 computer in that question that led to Finding No. 37?

14 A. Again, I'd have to look at the transcript.

15 Q. Okay. Were you aware prior to this investigation

16 that Paul Murphy was a bit of a computer junky, gadget guy?

17 A. Yes. I would describe him that way.

18 Q. Were you aware that he worked on computers at his

19 house; that he --

20 A. No. I wasn't aware of that. I was aware that he

21 was computer savvy, I guess, to use a loose term. But I

22 wasn't aware that he actually mechanically -- until this

23 investigation.

24 Q. How computer savvy were you terminology-wise

25 prior to this investigation?

COPY


1 A. On what scale? I would consider myself

2 relatively savvy.

3 Q. Okay. No. 39 is: "Clone is a term with

4 biological origins that means one that is an exact replica

5 of another."

6 Do you see that?

7 A. I do.

8 Q. Why is that there?

9 A. I was trying to take any personal understanding

10 of the term clone out of -- out of the equation. I wanted

11 to find some objective way -- evidence that would show what

12 people consider a clone of a hard drive to be.

13 So I was trying to actually remove my savviness

14 from the investigation and find some objective and

15 independent verification of what clone means.

16 Q. And did you use that definition in any of your

17 questions with Perry or Paul or anybody else in the

18 investigation?

19 A. The biological one?

20 Q. Yeah.

21 A. No, I did not.

22 Q. Is it possible in your investigation that people

23 were using the words "clone," "copy" differently than the

24 definition you were using?

25 A. Of course.

COPY


1 Q. Do you recall taking any steps to ensure that the

2 words that you were saying and the words that you were

3 receiving were containing the same definition?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. How did you do that?

6 A. In, I believe it was the first interview with

7 Deputy Murphy, he raised the question of that issue, and

8 there was discussion. And, again, I'd have to refer to the

9 transcript, but I attempted to clarify exactly what I was

10 talking about.

11 Q. Okay. No. 46, you were unable to locate any IT

12 employee who recalls the conversation with Murphy about

13 cloning a hard drive.

14 Do you have, with Enclosure 16 and 17, a list of

15 who you talked to?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Did that list include past employees of the IT

18 department?

19 A. One past employee.

20 Q. Who is that?

21 A. Stewart Eng.

22 Q. Eng?

23 A. E-n-g, Eng.

24 Q. Are there other former employees of that

25 department that you did not reach?

COPY


1 A. Oh, I'm sure.

2 Q. Okay.

3 A. Well, let me clarify. I did not attempt to reach

4 any other former employees.

5 Q. Why not?

6 A. Because in discussions with Perry, he felt that

7 Stewart Eng would be really the only other one he could

8 think of that would have had this type of contact with

9 Deputy Murphy because he was the main point of contact for

10 the sheriff's office before John Dalquist.

11 Q. Okay. And how long has Perry been with the

12 county?

13 A. I don't know.

14 Q. Not very long, right?

15 A. A few -- five years.

16 Q. Five years, seven years?

17 A. Something like that, yeah.

18 Q. And Murphy's been with the county longer?

19 A. I believe so. I don't know that for a fact.

20 Q. Okay. And we're talking about swapping out stuff

21 that goes back over time, correct?

22 A. Uh-huh, yes.

23 Q. In fact, are you aware of any -- with regard to

24 the computer -- any conduct in 2012 related to Paul Murphy's

25 computer that would be a violation of any policy?

COPY


1 A. I don't understand. What do you mean?

2 Q. Is there any allegation that he changed out a

3 hard drive in 2012 or did any cloning in 2012 or anything

4 like that?

5 A. There's no specific allegation that's worded that

6 way, if that's what you're asking.

7 Q. Okay. Is there any evidence that you came across

8 that would say this event happened in 2012?

9 A. No. Like I said before, there's -- I have no way

10 of knowing if or when he cloned a county hard drive.

11 Q. Okay. And, in fact, you don't know if it was in

12 2011, correct?

13 A. Correct.

14 Q. You don't know if it was 2010?

15 A. Correct.

16 Q. In fact, did you talk to Perry about the ability

17 to do this postmigration?

18 A. Probably, but I don't remember that discussion

19 specifically.

20 Q. Wasn't the purpose of the migration, as

21 identified in your earlier finding, to avoid this kind of

22 thing from happening?

23 A. Yes. But my understanding was that I don't

24 believe that necessarily prohibited someone from making a

25 bit-for-bit or a cloned copy of the hard drive itself.

COPY


1 Q. Okay. Did anybody in the IT department have an

2 explanation for why the 20 gig wasn't a red flag of some

3 problem?

4 A. No.

5 Q. Would it be a fair assumption for somebody who

6 turns in a computer and the hard drive isn't right, but

7 nothing happens from it, to assume that there's no problem

8 with it because nothing happened?

9 A. That is one possibility.

10 Q. How would you describe the other possibility?

11 A. From my discussions with John Dalquist and Perry

12 Rice, it appears that -- to me that John knew that that was

13 odd, but for whatever reason just chose to put it aside and

14 not address it with anyone.

15 Q. Do you know how long John had been the sheriff

16 liaison?

17 A. A couple of years.

18 Q. Do you know if in 2010 he was new to the sheriff

19 or if he had history with the sheriff?

20 A. I don't remember.

21 Q. Okay.


23 BY MR. BUTLER:

24 Q. In looking at the log in reference to 47 and 48

25 that you talked with John about, do you recall seeing

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1 anything about Roth's computer, which became Murphy's

2 computer, having any performance issues?

3 A. Well, any performance -- yes. We were -- I was

4 made aware of the fact that the computer Roth was using has

5 a performance issue.

6 Q. And that predated the migration, correct?

7 A. I don't know.

8 Q. Did Roth have the computer at the migration?

9 A. I would have to look through the investigation to

10 see when the migration occurred versus when Roth got that

11 computer. I can't tell you off the top of my head.

12 Q. We can go back. I'm not meaning to trick you.

13 A. Okay. I'm being as helpful as I can.

14 Q. You're doing great. I appreciate that.

15 Earlier we talked about the county got the

16 Toughbooks in '06, and it was initially given to Roth in '06

17 and it was given to Murphy in '08.

18 A. Okay.

19 Q. And the migration was in '10. It wasn't meant to

20 be a trick question. It was just meant to be -- Roth didn't

21 have the computer in '10?

22 A. Which one? The Toughbook?

23 Q. Right.

24 A. I believe that's correct.

25 Q. But the records show that that Toughbook that

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1 originally was Roth's, then Murphy's, had performance

2 issues, correct?

3 A. Oh, not the Toughbook that I'm aware of. I know

4 the -- let me think. You're talking about the Toughbook and

5 not Roth's Dell computer; is that correct?

6 Q. That's correct.

7 A. Let me think. I would have to look through the

8 investigation --

9 Yeah. I'm not sure. It's possible.

10 Q. Do you remember that being something to look at,

11 that "I want to know if this Toughbook had any performance

12 issues, so I'm going to talk to John about the history of

13 this Toughbook"?

14 A. I'm sure it was discussed.

15 Q. Okay. In No. 50 and 56 -- I'm trying to kind of

16 speed things up a little bit here.

17 A. Uh-huh.

18 Q. In 50, that's when they're at the sector class

19 and he was hesitant to have somebody else on his computer,

20 but he relented and let Dalquist do the upgrade, right?

21 A. No. That's not correct. He relented and let

22 Dave Scott do the upgrade. Dalquist was not there at that

23 point.

24 Q. Okay. The upgrade happened?

25 A. Yes.

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1 Q. He allowed access?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. We already talked about your awareness of his

4 being concerned about corruption, correct?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Do you know if others in the department were

7 aware of his concern about corruption, or was that a unique

8 knowledge of yours?

9 A. Oh, no. Others were aware.

10 Q. Okay. And then looking at 56.

11 A. Uh-huh.

12 Q. You identified that there were numerous sheriff's

13 office reports authored by Murphy.

14 A. Uh-huh.

15 Q. Is that a problem? Is anything in 56 a problem

16 or inappropriate on a deputy's hard drive to have reports?

17 A. None of that is against policy, no.

18 Q. Okay. Why did you include 56 if that's not any

19 kind of a policy violation?

20 A. Because it's part of a thorough investigation. I

21 mean, part of the concern initially was that he was keeping

22 some sort of off-the-books, off-the-record investigations on

23 his Toughbooks of which, again, his supervisors were not

24 aware, of a law-enforcement nature.

25 And so I wanted to -- 56 was an attempt to

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1 describe that it did not appear to me, although I did not

2 read every investigation that was on the laptop, that there

3 was anything untoward on there.

4 Q. Okay. How long did you spend with the

5 computer -- with the hard drive, looking at files?

6 A. I would have to estimate. Me, personally, or in

7 the presence of Officer Petson Ira?

8 Q. Let's go with you personally, and then we'll back

9 up to the BPD component to this.

10 A. I would say a few hours at the most.

11 Q. And we heard yesterday a term "working copy."

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. And the working copy was created by BPD, and the

14 working copy was given back to the sheriff's office.

15 Are you familiar with that process?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. With regards to the hard drive you were looking

18 at, do you know what hard drive you were looking at?

19 A. I used a working copy.

20 Q. Did you look at any content on the original, if

21 you will, before the working copy was made?

22 A. No.

23 Q. Did you ever see the original hard drive?

24 A. Yes. I have it in my possession.

25 Q. So BPD doesn't have it?

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1 A. No. That's correct. You're talking about the

2 physical hard drive itself?

3 Q. Yes.

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. All right. Walk me through that process.

6 A. Okay.

7 Q. So on the 10th, the Toughbook is seized. Walk me

8 through where the hard drive itself has gone.

9 A. I was not involved when it was -- the working

10 copy was made. I was not a part of that process, nor was I

11 present. But my understanding was they gave it to somebody

12 at BPD who made a copy of it.

13 That working copy eventually ended up with me.

14 And for a time, Chief Edge kept the original hard drive in a

15 locked drawer. And so we worked with the working copy.

16 Q. Okay. We heard yesterday that the original hard

17 drive was put in a locked drawer, then went to BPD.

18 Did it come back the locked drawer or did it come

19 back to you?

20 A. Yes. It came back to the locked drawer for a

21 period of time, yes, and I gave it back to Edge to put it

22 back in the locked drawer.

23 Q. You indicated the working copy was a copy. Was

24 it a clone, a copy, a mirror, a ghost?

25 A. I'm not that computer savvy. I know that officer

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1 Petson Ira from the Bellingham Police Department took all of

2 the data on that hard drive and put it on his machine over

3 there.

4 Q. Okay. And if I understood your earlier

5 statement, you didn't have anything to do with that; you

6 weren't tasked with that being a part of your investigation

7 to get a working copy made?


9 Q. I'll go find somebody to do it. BPD's going to

10 do that --

11 A. Initially, that's correct.

12 Q. Who made the decision to use BPD as opposed to --

13 who's your guy at the sheriff's department for that?

14 A. Al Smith is our computer forensics expert.

15 Q. Okay. Why not Al?

16 A. I think it was -- I don't remember who made the

17 decision, but I believe it was felt that since he was part

18 of the same bargaining unit as Deputy Murphy and this

19 investigation was part -- was into a member of the

20 bargaining unit, that we'd like to keep that separate.

21 Q. Why BPD and not state patrol or some other

22 separate agency?

23 A. No. We were aware of Scott Petson Ira, and he

24 was convenient and available.

25 Q. All right. 67, this is in the section referred

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1 to as "other statements." 66 and 67 say -- in 66, "I'm

2 going to get to the bottom of it. Someone will pay for

3 this."

4 67 says, "This is far from over, gentlemen; far

5 from over."

6 Why did you include those statements?

7 A. Because that appeared to me that those would

8 potentially violate one of our policies.

9 Q. Is it expected that if you're being accused of

10 something, you're going to say, "Yippee. Can I give you all

11 a hug? This is super duper"?

12 A. No.

13 Q. Was there a feeling of "this is far from over,

14 gentlemen; far from over" was some kind of threat?

15 A. Yes, I believe so.

16 Q. And would it not equally be a fair assessment to

17 say we're here today in November pursuing it from being over

18 real soon in June?

19 A. Within the context of the investigation, I don't

20 believe so.

21 Q. Within the context of the investigation, did you

22 expect Deputy Murphy to just say, Okay. I'm throwing away

23 my career on June 12 with Sheriff Elfo firing me?

24 A. No.

25 Q. So isn't it pretty fair to assume that he would

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1 pursue that?

2 A. Sure.

3 Q. And you said it before, but you were aware that

4 he thought that there was corruption in the department?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Did he ever voice to you in the course of this

7 investigation that he thought this was an extension of that

8 corruption?

9 A. Not specifically, no.

10 Q. Okay. Conclusions, No. 4 on Page 12. These are

11 based on No. 4, at least, ends with, "However, it is likely

12 that Murphy did so."

13 Do you see that?

14 A. No. 4 where? No, I don't.

15 Q. Allegations No. 1, 2, paragraph No. 4.

16 A. Okay. So starting with Paragraph No. 7 there; is

17 that what you mean?

18 Q. No. Paragraph No. 4.

19 A. Oh, up at the top. I'm sorry. Under the first

20 two allegations?

21 Q. Yeah. Sorry. Not allegation 4.

22 A. Yes. I see what you're talking about now.

23 Q. That's just opinion on your part, correct?

24 A. It is a conclusion drawn on the basis of the

25 findings of fact.

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1 Q. And it starts with you were unable to establish

2 whether he actually ever cloned a hard drive, right?


4 Q. And you have no evidence that he did clone a hard

5 drive, correct?

6 A. No direct evidence, yes.

7 Q. You have no direct evidence that he used such a

8 hard drive to access nonpublic secure networks? Reading

9 your sentence there, not the capital ACCESS.

10 A. I have no evidence one way or the other.

11 Q. So we're essentially coming to this conclusion

12 based on his confusing responses to questions?

13 A. That's part of it.

14 Q. Saying yes; saying no; saying yes; saying I don't

15 know?

16 A. That's part of it, yes.

17 Q. Okay. And the other part is what?

18 A. I'd have to look back through the investigation.

19 Do you want me to do that?

20 Q. Well, I'm looking at Paragraph 4 there, under

21 allegations 1 and 2.

22 A. Uh-huh.

23 Q. And, I mean, it refers to Findings No. 30 and 32.

24 A. Right.

25 Q. I guess we could go look at 30 and 32, but I

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1 thought we had clarified that the county --

2 A. One of the other things that that statement is

3 based on is in Paragraph 1 under the same section, "it's

4 clear that he removed a hard drive."

5 Q. How is that clear?

6 A. Because the one -- there are two 80-gigabyte hard

7 drives that were issued to him. The county only got one

8 back.

9 Q. How do you know that?

10 A. Two in total.

11 Q. Perry Rice says he doesn't know that that hard

12 drive was ever an 80 gig to start with.

13 MR. BUTLER: I object. That is an incorrect

14 assessment of what Perry Rice said.

15 BY MR. BUTLER:

16 Q. Okay. I'll rephrase. Perry Rice says he did not

17 inspect the computer to determine if the computer that was

18 issued, in fact, came from the manufacturer with an 80 gig.

19 A. Okay.

20 Q. You told me today you didn't either.

21 A. That's true.

22 Q. So without that fact, how do you know that that

23 computer came from the manufacturer properly designed?

24 A. The standard proof here is preponderance of the

25 evidence, and we have lots of documentary evidence that show

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1 that it came to us with an 80-gigabyte hard drive.

2 Q. And the documentary evidence is a purchase order

3 saying, "We want 40 Toughbooks with 80-gig hard drives?

4 A. Yes. And after the fact, the actual -- yes,

5 that's correct.

6 Q. Okay. In Allegation 5, Paragraph 10 --

7 A. On Page 13?

8 Q. Correct. Paragraph 5, my confusion.

9 And the ending sentence that goes over to the

10 next page is: "If, as Murphy asserted, he made assumptions

11 about what was being asked rather than what was actually

12 asked, he had no basis for doing so."

13 Do you see that?

14 A. Yes, I do.

15 Q. Have you ever had occasion to observe Paul

16 Murphy -- out of this context of this investigation, but

17 before -- to be confused?

18 A. I can't recall a specific instance.

19 Q. Are you aware of him ever being reprimanded or

20 counselled with regards to forgetting stuff, not doing stuff

21 right, being late, that kind of a thing?

22 A. He's been reprimanded before, yes.

23 Q. What do you know of him to be reprimanded for?

24 A. Like we discussed earlier that other

25 investigation that I conducted, he was reprimanded for not

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1 obeying a direct order and not carrying out what his

2 sergeant told him to do.

3 Q. Anything else come to mind?

4 A. Nothing specific right now.

5 Q. Were you aware of the sheriff wanting him to have

6 a fit for duty --

7 A. I don't believe it was a fit for duty, but I was

8 aware of that. He was sent down to Dr. Ekemo (phonetic), to

9 talk to Dr. Ekemo. Yes.

10 Q. So with regard to that sentence, how is it that

11 you can come to the conclusion that he had no basis to be

12 confused?

13 A. That sentence is an expression of the fact that I

14 felt that the questions that were asked of him were very

15 clear.

16 Q. Okay.

17 A. And that's what the sentence says.

18 Q. From your perspective?

19 A. Correct. Of course.

20 Q. And the terminology of cloning and copying is not

21 first language to most of us, correct?

22 A. I wouldn't think so.

23 Q. Are you aware of any other investigations that

24 you've conducted where you didn't have any evidence -- as

25 here, where you don't have any evidence, that a person was

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1 disciplined based solely on their words?

2 A. No.

3 Q. Okay. You --

4 A. Well, it's a multipart -- ask the question again.

5 I'm sorry.

6 Q. Sure. And that's a great example of following

7 the directions at the beginning of the deposition.

8 Taking out of the -- any discipline for words

9 alone, any offenses -- in other words, fighting words or

10 telling the supervisor to go do something to themselves --

11 where the only evidence is the nonoffensive spoken word of

12 the deputy, resulted in discipline?

13 A. Am I aware of a situation where a deputy was

14 disciplined solely because of words that he would say are

15 nonoffensive?

16 Q. Yeah.

17 A. Well, that would assume I'm aware of every --

18 Q. I'm sorry. Any investigations you've done as the

19 investigator.

20 A. I would have to look. There are several cases

21 where an -- part of an investigation turned on what the

22 deputy said, but I'm not sure that I recall one -- whether

23 it was one based solely on what a deputy, as you say, said

24 that was nonoffensive.

25 Q. Okay. Did you inquire of Dalquist or anybody at

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1 the IT department whether any other computers in the last 15

2 years -- so going back to, say, 12 years; going back to,

3 say, '99 to 2000, somewhere in there -- had been modified in

4 any way by a sheriff office personnel?

5 A. Not in that part of a context, no.

6 Q. Okay. Are you aware of deputies modifying the

7 handguns they were using?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Their weapon?

10 A. Sure.

11 Q. Those are county issued, correct?

12 A. Now they are. They did not used to be.

13 Q. They're county-owned --

14 A. Mine is not.

15 Q. And how did you get yours to not be?

16 A. There was a time where we were all expected to

17 purchase our own handguns.

18 Q. Okay.

19 A. And that's just the way it was. At some point,

20 the county changed and decided to issue the handguns to

21 their personnel.

22 And there was a brief period in between that

23 where deputies who had already bought their handguns between

24 a certain time period were offered a chance, as in deputy

25 Murphy's case, to essentially sell their handgun back to the

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1 county.

2 I was in the previous group that wasn't either

3 offered that option or issued a handgun. I bought my

4 handgun.

5 Q. Okay. Focusing on the county tract handguns.

6 You're aware that officers modified those, correct?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. And is that a violation?

9 A. Well, it would depend on the modification. There

10 are modifications that are permitted, yes.

11 Q. And do they have to be done by the county or can

12 they do them themselves or take it to a gunsmith to have it

13 done?

14 A. I don't remember the exact guidance, but I

15 believe in some cases they -- for instance, putting a light

16 on their handgun, which is something relatively new that

17 deputies do. They can do that themselves.

18 Q. Okay. What about changing the firing mechanism,

19 making it closer to automatic?

20 A. Possibly -- that would possibly violate policy.

21 Q. Okay. You're aware of deputies doing that,

22 though, correct, modifying guns in that way?

23 A. Not specifically, no. You're talking about

24 making them a handgun, modifying it to where it's closer to

25 an automatic?

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1 Q. Uh-huh.

2 A. No. I'm not aware of that.

3 Q. What modifications are you aware of other than

4 putting a flashlight on it?

5 A. To handguns --

6 Q. I'm not going to ask you who you know. So I'm

7 not going to try to rat somebody out, but --

8 A. I understand.

9 Q. You've got friends in the department. You've

10 seen modifications. What have you seen?

11 A. Handgun vice grips. Deputies put rubberized

12 grips on a handgun versus the one I'm carrying, which is a

13 Glock 27, which has a very short magazine. Some deputies

14 will put a little extension on there, and it allows you to

15 more firmly hold it, a little finger extension.

16 Q. Uh-huh.

17 A. So those are the only specific ones that come to

18 mind right now.

19 Q. Does the county issue long arms for their shotgun

20 or rifle?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Are you aware of any modifications being done to

23 those?

24 A. Not that are outside of officially acknowledged

25 ones.

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1 Q. And if you modify a weapon that is the county's,

2 whether it's a handgun or a long arm, does that have to be

3 registered with the county that I did this to this tracking

4 item, or can you do it without telling them?

5 A. I believe -- I would have to look at the policy,

6 but I believe the policy requires that you inform the

7 county.

8 Q. Okay. So we started with what you do. And you

9 get tasked and you follow your task. And then we narrowed

10 your job description and started dealing with this

11 investigation.

12 Let's now go back and expand using this as an

13 example.

14 A. Okay.

15 Q. You've been tasked with an investigation. You do

16 an investigation. Then what happens?

17 A. I forward my report along with basically the

18 investigation itself, which includes my report with all of

19 the enclosures, to the bureau chief in question, whoever the

20 bureau chief at the time in whose the bureau the employee

21 works.

22 That bureau chief then reviews the investigation.

23 He or she has the option of sending it back to me and asking

24 that more work be done if they feel I should have

25 interviewed a witness that I didn't interview or got a

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1 conclusion wrong or something like that.

2 And then, based on that, when they feel it's

3 complete, they write recommendations to the sheriff on what

4 to do about the allegations, how to dispose of them.

5 Q. Do you supply recommendations?

6 A. No.

7 Q. And do you -- does anybody in the -- before you

8 give it to the command, do you speak with anybody at the

9 prosecutor's office about your investigations?

10 A. I'm sure I have in the past.

11 Q. Okay. But that's not a -- a function of the job,

12 to do the investigation, run it by the prosecutor, give it

13 to command? Is that in your --

14 A. Not at the point I'm doing it, no.

15 Q. Okay.

16 A. And usually, if that happens, that would usually

17 happen later.

18 Q. You -- so to get the chronology, you get the --

19 your report, then, and you give it up the chain and they say

20 yes.

21 Do you do anything else?

22 A. Again, it goes through several levels. It goes

23 up to the bureau chief, and then the bureau chief -- the

24 investigation essentially isn't complete until the sheriff

25 has read it and feels that it's complete and that the

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1 situation he wanted documented and investigated has been

2 completely documented to his satisfaction.

3 So it goes from the bureau chief, as I described,

4 to the undersheriff, who does essentially the same thing,

5 and then to the sheriff.

6 At some point, the sheriff will, usually in

7 written form, send me a note saying, "I declare the

8 investigation is complete," and that starts another clock

9 ticking.

10 Q. Okay. And after you get the memo complete --

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Do you do anything else relative to the

13 investigation that you just got a complete on?

14 A. Yes. I will inform if there are any witnesses

15 that we have that are employees of the sheriff's office that

16 we have ordered not to speak about it, I will relieve them

17 of that obligation.

18 Q. Okay. How do you do that?

19 A. It's written form. I will e-mail them a memo.

20 Usually, it's an e-mail that basically says, "You are part

21 of an investigation that was recently concluded. You are

22 now relieved -- during that investigation you were ordered

23 not to speak about it. You are now relieved of that

24 obligation."

25 Q. Okay. Anything else? I'm sorry. Anything else

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1 in the time line?

2 So you get complete. You relieve the witnesses.

3 Do you do anything else with regards to an investigation?

4 A. I'm the keeper of the file. So as the

5 investigation progresses up through to and including the

6 sheriff, if they issued letters or memos, eventually those

7 will come back to me and I save them in the file, in the

8 official original file.

9 Q. Okay. Anything else?

10 A. Again, if any of those people I mentioned want

11 more investigation, then I will do that. And essentially --

12 Q. That part's complete?

13 A. No, no. Once the sheriff has said it's complete,

14 no.

15 Q. All right. But we're just on the time line, so

16 again, complete --

17 A. Okay.

18 Q. -- and then you relieve the witnesses?

19 A. Yeah.

20 Q. You become the trustee of the file?

21 A. Right.

22 Q. Do you take any more action? Are you tasked with

23 anymore duty after you get the complete?

24 A. I don't believe so, no. That's it. We're done.

25 Q. Okay. All right.

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1 A. Unless something like this comes up.

2 Q. Okay. With regards now to this investigation,

3 when you handed it up to the bureau chief, which you said is

4 who you give it to initially, did the bureau chief ask you

5 to change anything, do anything more, modify anything you've

6 written?

7 A. I don't believe so.

8 Q. Okay. After it goes to the bureau chief, it goes

9 to the undersheriff?

10 A. Yes, that's correct.

11 Q. That's Parks?


13 Q. Did Parks ask you to add anything, subtract

14 anything, change a sentence, do anything about this?

15 A. Not that I recall.

16 Q. Okay. Then it went to Elfo?


18 Q. Did he ask you to do anything, change anything,

19 modify anything?

20 A. Not that I recall. I'm not certain.

21 Q. How long does that process take? You get done;

22 you hand it to the bureau chief, to you getting a complete

23 in this case?

24 A. All of that, including my investigation up until

25 the sheriff declares that it's complete, can take no longer

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1 than 60 days by Collective Bargaining Agreement.

2 Q. Okay.

3 A. So that particular review process, a week or two.

4 Q. All right.

5 A. Sometimes it's quicker if I've taken too long and

6 they only have a few days left in the time line.

7 Q. Okay.

8 A. In this case, we had to ask for an extension

9 because I wasn't quite finished.

10 Q. All right. Prior to giving your report to the

11 bureau chief, do you give anybody status reports, updates?

12 A. Yes, certainly.

13 Q. In this particular case, who did you give status

14 reports to?

15 A. Normally, it would be either the bureau chief --

16 I don't recall a specific instance, but I'm certain that I

17 kept Deputy -- or Chief Chadwick, Undersheriff Parks, and

18 the sheriff informed of its progress.

19 Q. Do you recall any meetings where the four of you

20 discussed this during the investigation between February

21 and -- or between February and May when you kind of wrote

22 this?

23 A. Excuse me. I don't recall any specific meeting,

24 but I'm sure that that occurred on at least one occasion.

25 Q. And -- excuse me again. What's the purpose of

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1 that meeting?

2 A. Just to keep them advised of what's going on, and

3 there's multiple purposes.

4 Q. Do they direct you in you should go this way, or

5 is it just a one-way thing where you're saying, I'm doing

6 this, this, and this; and they say, Get on it?

7 A. No. Sometimes I'll ask for advice on what I

8 should do about a particular issue that I've come across.

9 Q. Okay.

10 A. Could be a variety of things.

11 Q. Do you remember anybody above you recommending

12 that you pursue any additional forensic work on the -- the

13 80- or the 20-gigabyte hard drive?

14 A. I don't recall any recommendations that were made

15 to me that I didn't follow up on.

16 Q. Do you remember speaking with Dave McEachran

17 during the course of this investigation?

18 A. I have a vague recollection that I may have, but

19 I don't remember what that was about.

20 Q. Do you remember giving him the copy of your

21 report?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Do you remember when you gave him a copy of your

24 report in the scheme of the time line you've just described

25 for us?

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1 A. You know, it would have been after it was

2 completed. I made several copies of this binder that I have

3 in front of me. I think I gave that to him.

4 Q. All right.

5 A. Because I think it was felt that Deputy Murphy

6 was going to challenge the findings of the investigation.

7 And so I think McEachran's office is our legal adviser in

8 that regard.

9 Q. Dan Gibson's your legal adviser at the

10 department, right? Why didn't you give it to Dan?

11 A. I don't recall. I think I was -- I was likely

12 directed to by the sheriff.

13 Q. Okay. Do you remember having a conversation with

14 Dave about the investigation?

15 A. When I handed it to him, I'm sure we had some

16 sort of a conversation, but I -- I don't -- honestly don't

17 recall the contents of that.

18 Q. Do you recall that he was aware of the

19 investigation that you were giving him, or did he go, Wow,

20 Steve. What's this? I have no idea what you're talking

21 about here?

22 A. I don't recall.

23 Q. Did you give a copy to Dan Gibson?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. So the giving it to Dave wasn't to have Dave give

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1 it to Dan?

2 A. No. I believe they were simultaneous.

3 Q. Do you remember if they were together when you

4 did that?

5 A. No, they were not.

6 Q. Okay. Prior to your deposition today, did you

7 discuss with anybody the deposition, what the deposition

8 would be about?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. Who'd you discuss it with?

11 A. Dan Gibson.

12 Q. Okay. Anybody other than Dan?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Who?

15 A. Sheriff Elfo, Jeff Parks, Perry Rice came down to

16 our office shortly before I came up here.

17 Q. Okay. And tell me about the conversation that

18 you had with Perry and Elfo and Parks before you came up

19 here.

20 A. Perry just gave me a general idea of what to

21 expect and how he felt his deposition went.

22 Q. How did he feel his deposition went?

23 A. Do you want me to give specific statements that

24 he made?

25 Q. Absolutely.

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1 A. He said that you have to listen carefully to your

2 questions because sometimes they were long and you needed to

3 make sure you were answering the correct question.

4 Q. That was a rule I gave to you, correct?

5 A. That's correct. He repeated a couple of

6 questions that he was asked, I believe, and told me what his

7 answers were.

8 Q. What do you recall those to be?

9 A. What did he say? He was talking -- he

10 specifically said that you'd zeroed in on the terminology,

11 clone versus mirror versus image versus all of that, and he

12 told me there was a lengthy -- you came back to that subject

13 frequently.

14 And so I don't -- I believe he said when he was

15 asked for what a definition of what a clone was he -- there

16 was some back and forth about that, and eventually he said

17 something to the effect that it's a bit-for-bit copy.

18 Q. Do you remember anything else about what Perry

19 said?

20 A. Yeah, nothing's coming to mind right now. If I

21 think about it for a while, I may remember more.

22 Q. Okay. Where is your office?

23 A. My office is over at the Jail Work Center.

24 Q. Okay. And where did this meeting with Perry take

25 place?

COPY


1 A. We have a morning chief's meeting with the

2 undersheriff at the -- in the sheriff's office conference

3 room --

4 Q. Okay.

5 A. -- at the sheriff's office itself.

6 Q. All right.

7 A. Perry came into that meeting unannounced to, I

8 believe, talk with someone else about some other matter.

9 And I walked in, and he was there.

10 Q. All right. Did other people leave so that the

11 four of you could have this conversation?

12 A. The only ones present were me, Chief Chadwick,

13 and the undersheriff.

14 Q. Well, you said Elfo was there?

15 A. He came in and out, so he was probably there for

16 part of that, yeah. But nobody else was there.

17 Q. And tell me about the conversations about the

18 deposition with Chadwick and Parks.

19 A. Actually, I didn't have any direct conversation

20 with Chadwick about the deposition. The only thing I talked

21 with Parks about was that I had it today, and that was

22 essentially it.

23 When I said that, I meant we were all in that

24 room together, and that's where this discussion occurred.

25 The tables -- Parks was sitting here and Chadwick was here.

COPY


1 We mostly just sat and listened.

2 Q. Anybody in that meeting this morning, either

3 before or during Perry being there, say anything else about

4 either Murphy or this case?

5 A. No.

6 Q. Was Parks not aware of your deposition today?

7 A. I had told him before. I don't know if he

8 remembered or not, but I think he -- I believe he asked me

9 when it was this morning. So I think he had forgotten.

10 Q. Did you speak with Sheriff Elfo about yours and

11 his depositions today?

12 A. Probably.

13 Q. What do you recall?

14 A. Yeah. We discussed that both of ours were today.

15 That's about it. I can't recall any specific anyway.

16 Q. About the --

17 A. The depositions, specifically, and that was it.

18 Both of our depositions today.

19 Q. Anything else about the case?

20 A. There were two issues that I discussed with Dan

21 this morning and that Dan made me aware of, and the sheriff

22 asked me about them.

23 Q. Okay. Was the sheriff there when you and Dan

24 were discussing it?

25 A. No.

COPY


1 Q. So you relayed to the sheriff what you and Dan

2 had talked about?

3 A. When I came in this morning to the meeting, the

4 sheriff told me that Dan wanted me to call him. I called

5 Dan and Dan reviewed those two issues with me, and then the

6 sheriff asked me about them afterwards.

7 MR. BUTLER: Do you want to assert

8 attorney/client?

9 MR. GIBSON: Yep.

10 BY MR. BUTLER:

11 Q. If there's -- did you clear up the two issues,

12 then?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Did the two of you confer on that?

15 A. Sure.

16 MR. BUTLER: And so if I challenged your

17 assertion, we don't come back to "we don't know what we were

18 talking about"? Because I don't think you can assert it --

19 MR. GIBSON: I understand. I understand the

20 position.

21 MR. BUTLER: I think that the privilege was

22 broken when he talked to Elfo about it. So I think you're

23 on pretty thin legal ground to say you can't talk.

24 So I'm not asking what your conversation with

25 this witness is; I'm asking what his conversation with Elfo

COPY


1 is.

2 So if you want to protect it, I just want to make

3 sure that that protection doesn't get lost in the future if

4 we get a ruling on it.

5 MR. GIBSON: Do you want to step out for a

6 second?

7 THE WITNESS: Okay.


9 BY MR. BUTLER:

10 Q. What did you and Bill Elfo talk about before the

11 dep?

12 A. Well, I'd have to talk about -- I'd have to tell

13 you what Dan made me aware of; is that okay?

14 MR. GIBSON: That's fine.

15 BY MR. BUTLER:

16 Q. I just want to know about what you and Bill

17 talked about.

18 A. Right. Well, it's linked. Dan -- when I

19 discussed with Dan on the phone this morning, he made me

20 aware that you had asked Dave McEachran yesterday something

21 to the effect of, "Were you aware that Steve Cooley used his

22 badge somehow to obtain alcohol for Kristen Cavanaugh

23 (phonetic), and then also there was an accusation or some

24 questions about whether I had a sexual relationship with

25 Kristen Cavanaugh.

COPY

Paul

Highlight

Paul

Highlight


1 The sheriff asked me about both of those issues

2 and if there was anything to them. My answers were no to

3 both.

4 Q. Anything further on that?

5 A. No.

6 Q. So your conversation with Elfo was those two

7 questions. That was it before your deposition today?

8 A. Essentially, yes. I mean, again, we walked in

9 and we acknowledged, Yeah, I've got my deposition today. I

10 know you do, too.

11 I asked him if I could have this binder if he had

12 it. I asked him if I could take it with me. Nothing else

13 substantive.

14 Q. Okay. Was he present for Perry's conversation?

15 A. Like I said, he was walking in and out. It's

16 possible.

17 Q. Do you remember seeing him talk to Perry about

18 the deposition with Perry -- his deposition yesterday?

19 A. I did not see him talk to Perry, no.

20 Q. Have you spoken with Janice Corbin about Paul

21 Murphy?

22 A. Never.

23 MR. BUTLER: That's it.

24 (Deposition concluded at 10:15 a.m.)

25 (Signature reserved.)

COPY


1 STATE OF WASHINGTON ) ) SS: C E R T I F I C A T E

2 COUNTY OF WHATCOM )

3 I, BETH L. DRUMMOND, Certified Court

4Reporter in and for the State of Washington do hereby

5certify;

6 That the foregoing is true and correct

7to the best of my skill, ability, and knowledge,

8taken on the date and at the time and place as shown

9on Page Two hereto;

10 That I am not related to any of the

11parties to this litigation and have no interest in the

12outcome of said litigation;

13 Witness my hand and seal this 6th day of

14May, 2014.

15

16

17

18

19 ________________________________

20 BETH L. DRUMMOND, CCR #2064 CERTIFIED COURT REPORTER

21 IN AND FOR THE STATE OF WASHINGTON, RESIDING AT

22 BELLINGHAM.

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1

2 IN THE STATE OF WASHINGTON COUNTY OF WHATCOM CIVIL SERVICE BOARD

3

4 In Re: Paul Murphy

5

6 TO: DANIEL L. GIBSON

7 Whatcom County Prosecuting Attorney 322 North Commercial, Suite 210

8 Bellingham, Washington 98225 Please have STEVE COOLEY contact our office

9 to read and sign his deposition to note any errors that may have been made in the transcript. This needs to be

10 done within 30 days of this letter, pursuant to Washington Reports 34A, Rule (e), or three days prior to trial,

11 whichever occurs first. If the signed correction sheet is not

12 completed within the specified time period, the originaltranscript will be filed with Paul Murphy.

13 Your prompt attention to this matter isgreatly appreciated. If there are any questions I can

14 assist you with, please feel free to call.

15 _________________________________

16 PATTIE LONG, OFFICE ADMINISTRATOR Corpolongo & Associates,

17 114 West Magnolia, Suite 400-110 Bellingham, Washington 98225

18 (360) 671-6298 May 6, 2014

19

20 C.C. Robert Butler, Paul Murphy

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25

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1 TO THE WITNESS:PLEASE READ YOUR DEPOSITION CAREFULLY. On this correction

2 sheet make notes of any errors I have made. Please signthis sheet at the bottom, and return this to me at 114 West

3 Magnolia Street, Suite 429, Bellingham, WA 98225. If youhave any questions, please feel free to call me at (360)

4 671-6298._______________________________________________________

5 Page-line correction_______________________________________________________

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23Signed and dated this ____ day of ___________, 2014.

24See: Wash. Reports 34A, __________________________

25 Rule 30(e) USC 28 STEVE COOLEY

COPY


1 IN THE STATE OF WASHINGTON COUNTY OF WHATCOM

2 CIVIL SERVICE BOARD

3 IN RE: PAUL MURPHY_____________________________

4RE: Deposition of: STEVE COOLEY

5 Taken on: November 9, 2012Date filed:

6 Please be advised that the above-referenced deposition willbe filed with: PAUL MURPHY

7 1213 East Smith Road Bellingham, WA 98226

8 ____ The Deponent waived signature.

9 ____ The deposition has been read and signed by the Deponent.

10 ____ No changes have been made to the deposition.____ The attached CORRECTIONS sheet reflects the changes

11 made.____ The Deponent failed to appear at our office or

12 notify us pursuant to CR 26.30(e).____ The Deponent refused to sign the deposition.

13 ____ Other.

14 _____________________________

15 PATTIE LONG, ADMINISTRATOR CORPOLONGO & ASSOCIATES, INC.

16 114 West Magnolia, Suite 400-100 Bellingham, WA 98225

17 (360) 671-6298

18 C.C. Robert Butler, Daniel Gibson

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Steve Cooley - Civil Service Deposition - 11-09-12 - Redacted

Documents

Transcript of Steve Cooley - Civil Service Deposition - 11-09-12 - Redacted