Special... · Web view2019-01-03 · Art Stevenson: Well, it's three o'clock, and Randy sent a...

BUSINESS ENTERPRISE PROGRAM OF OREGON BECC SPECIAL MEETING

Date: Tuesday, December 18th, 2018Time: 3:00 PM-5:00 PM

OREGON COMMISSION FOR THE BLIND535 SE 12th Avenue (Portland office)

Conference line: 404-443-6397Participant code: 943611#

Agenda

• Any agenda item may become an action item.• Any of these items may be a conflict of interest.

1. Open Meeting (Roll Call)

2. Adoption of Minutes

3. Public Comment

4. Committee Reports

5. Director’s Comments

6. Housekeeping Voting by consent or individually?

7. OLD BUSINESS

a. Communication Protocol

b. Draft Sub-Contracting Document

c. Directing Use of Set-Aside

d. RSA-15 Annual Report

e. Outreach Letter/Surveys

f. Active Participation The role of the Committee

g. Official Misconduct

h. Other

8. NEW BUSINESS

a. RSA Guidance

b. Legislative Work Group Annual Report Response

c. Annual Uninsured Business Expenses

d. Other

9. Open Discussion

10. Adjourn

Transcription

Art Stevenson: Well, it's three o'clock, and Randy sent a text saying he's going to be a little late, so he wanted me to start the meeting. And so...this is the fun part. I get to go through the agenda here to start this meeting. Anyways, first thing on the agenda is...call meeting to order. And now, haha, I will take roll call. We'll start with the members of the elected committee. So I heard Derrick Stevenson is here. How about Lewanda Miranda. I bet she's here, 'cause I heard her.

Miranda: Here.

Art Stevenson: Steve Jackson? Steve Jackson, you on the line? Steve Gordon? You on the line? Well, I texted Steve. He said he was going to be here, so he should show up any second. And I'm here. So now we'll go through the managers. Tessa Brown? Celyn Brown? [inaudible]

Miranda: You mean uh, Lin Jaynes?

Art Stevenson: Yeah, sure, I--I'm trying to go alphabetically, Lewanda. [laughs]

Miranda: OK. Want me to help you out?

Art Stevenson: Charlotta Hawkins? No? Cathy Colley-Dominique? OK. Uh...let me see. Um...let me see...Gordon Smith? Heard you.

Smith: I am here.

Art Stevenson: Do doo...Harold Young?

Young: Here.

Art Stevenson: OK, [inaudible].

Smith: Howdy, Harold.

Young: Howdy.

Art Stevenson: Now it's all over. [laughs] Let me see, um...Carole Kinney?

Kinney: I'm here.

Art Stevenson: Hi Carole.

Kinney: Hi.

Art Stevenson: Uh...

Jaynes: You missed--you missed a J, Art.

Art Stevenson: Lin Jaynes!

Jaynes: J comes before K.

Art Stevenson: I know. I'm--

Jaynes: I'm here.

Art Stevenson: --skipping around here. [laughs]

Jaynes: That's OK. I'm present.

Art Stevenson: OK. Alright. So, is there any other managers that I missed that's here? Any other managers? No? OK. Steve Jackson, you--Steve?

Jackson: Yep, Steve Jackson.

Art Stevenson: OK, now we've got a quorum. Whew!

Jackson: Sorry I'm late, you guys. I'm sorry.

Art Stevenson: No, that's OK. You just saved my life--

Jackson: I'm only three minutes late.

Art Stevenson: Yeah, you just saved my life 'cause um...a--alright. So we got the roll call managers. Alright. So, Adoption of the Minutes. Did everybody receive the minutes?

[undetermined]: Yep.

Art Stevenson: I'd entertain a motion...

Jackson: I make a motion to accept the minutes as they've been recorded.

Art Stevenson: It's been moved.

Miranda: Lewanda seconds.

Art Stevenson: Alright, got a move--movement and a second. So...we'll take a roll call vote. Of course, Randy's not here. Steve Gordon's not here. Derrick Stevenson?

Derrick Stevenson: Yea.

Art Stevenson: Lewanda Miranda?

Miranda: Yes.

Art Stevenson: Steve Jackson? Oh, Steve? Ah, I love that mute button. I vote yes. Come on, Steve, we need ya, buddy.

Jackson: I vote yes.

Art Stevenson: Alright! [laughs] So we got that done. You're gonna have to bear with me here guys, 'cause I gotta keep getting into my dang iPhone here to...[inaudible]

Miranda: Public Comment.

Art Stevenson: OK. Alright, now we'll go into public comment. Does anybody have any public comments? Oh, hold on, do we have any--

Smith: Santa Claus is on the way.

Art Stevenson: Uh...

Smith: That was a pretty good comment. [laughs]

Miranda: Where is he, Gordo?

Art Stevenson: [laughs] OK. Alright, public comment. So...public comments. Going...going...gone. Alright. So, next item on the agenda is Committee Report. Well, wait a minute. Um...I...'cause we only got two hours today. I want to take one agenda item off, we'll address next meeting, and that's the one that I put on there concerning official misconduct. I'm waiting on some information, so I'm going to withdraw that one agenda item. So we will pick up with that, I'm waiting to get some information, so we'll pick that up next meeting. OK. OK. So now we're on to Committee Reports. Alright. Um...I...will make one comment, uh, report, on the Vending Facility Development Committee. Trying to get copies of the surveys that are being done by all the public entities concerning the new laws and stuff, so...that we can read the committee members and the membership can rea--read the surveys, and we can make any recommendations. I know Director Morris says he's going to do a spreadsheet and that is great. However, I do believe that not only by law do we have the right to read the surveys...uh, you know, it is not, and shouldn't be, confidential information. But in order for us to participate, make recommendations, and those kind of things, I think it's essential that we be allowed to see those surveys, read those surveys, and...then when Director Morris submits his spreadsheet, we can make recommendations on how we think we should proceed in--in, uh, establishing new facilities, et

cetera, et cetera. So anyways, that's my committee report. I will be actively seeking that program-relevant information. And once we get those reports, then we'll be able to analyze them. OK, Lewanda, I know we just started your...the Legislative Committee last...last meeting. Is there anything going on, or do you have any kind of planned strategy on...when you're going to have your first meeting and, you know--

Miranda: No, I--I don't yet, due to the holidays. But I will, um, I'll get on it right after the holidays.

Art Stevenson: Yeah. Well, I do know the governor's budget came out. And of course, as everybody knows, we...did not get any money for vending facility development or any of those kind of thing. Of course, the budget from the governor is only recommended, and so...I do believe that, you know, we need to be very, very proactive in making sure that...or attempting to get money to...to establish more vending facilities and create more jobs for blind people. But I hear via the grapevine that there are...thirty bills to--to raise taxes and raise more money for the state government. And so...we should be a part of the conversation and stuff. And then, also, Lewanda, do you got any further comments on...the...information that we kind of received concerning the...commercialization of rest areas or anything?

Miranda: Well, again, I really wasn't prepared for it, but I will work on it. You know, Christmas is Tuesday, so right after that I'll get on it.

Art Stevenson: Yeah, I know. I do--I do know. OK. So I heard somebody join the line. Can...or did somebody drop off the line? OK.

Miranda: Is there any of the other committee members that want to do a report? Like...isn't Lin Jaynes on a committee, too?

Art Stevenson: I think she's on the budget committee and I think we're working on some--I think we're working on some budget things. But...

Miranda: OK.

Art Stevenson: We--we're trying to figure out what role and how we get to actively participate in all this stuff. And of course you know that's a controversy. Do--do you got anything you need--want to say, Lin, as far as that goes?

Jaynes: Yeah. I--I'm on the Budget and Finance Committee along with you, Art, as well as...as Linda. So right now it's kind of up in the air. I haven't heard anything new. I don't believe we've all gotten together and...and compared questions for Eric again. There are several things that we didn't get answered, but we have to get together between us three and--and see

where we carry it from here. I think the holidays, too, are--just kind of off the record, I think the holidays are really stopping a lot of people from really going much further with doing anything, and I might suggest we put up a--a hold on this until after Christmas.

Art Stevenson: OK.

Jaynes: I don't think we're going to get much answers before then anyway.

Art Stevenson: Yeah, that's...that is for sure.

Jaynes: We--we can present them--

Art Stevenson: OK.

Jaynes: --but we're not going to get an answer till after the holidays is over. I don't think anybody's going to respond to it at this point.

Art Stevenson: OK. Thanks, Lin.

Jaynes: Mm-hm.

Art Stevenson: Alright. On to any director's comments that we have.

Morris: Yeah, thanks Art. I have a few things to update the committee and the membership on real quick. Multnomah County--

Art Stevenson: OK.

Morris: Sorry?

Art Stevenson: OK, thanks, Eric.

Morris: Yeah.

Art Stevenson: Go ahead.

Morris: The Multnomah County Espresso facility went out for bid, and we did interviews last week, and I'm happy to congratulate Carole again on getting that facility. So Carole will be transitioning to the Multnomah County Espresso facility. And next, on the City of Portland. The City of Portland, we heard back from them. They're--they're trying to figure out what kind of a...an agreement we're going to enter into. They're...for some reason they want to...they're still talking about a lease versus an IGA. So they have their legal people looking at that. It's going to need to be an IGA in my opinion, because we're two government entities. That's the--the--the new Portland

Building that has the espresso stand and micro-market in it. So we're waiting to hear back from them still. They're--they were all in a big rush and now, like Lin was saying, I think the holidays are starting to factor into a lot of people's vacation schedules and everything else, so. Last but not least, the RSA-15 report. We've been working on that. I'm running into a little bit of a--a hang up because of the system that compiles all that data. I ran a couple of different versions of it to see, kind of mixing and comparing the--the--what it generates for the RSA-15 versus some of the other reports you can run, and the data wasn't consistent. So I have the--the company that manages that for us looking at it to figure out why the data isn't necessarily lining up correctly, so. 'Cause we want to report good data. So, they're--I'm waiting to hear back from them. And we're just kind of working through that process. So that's my report for today.

Art Stevenson: OK. So--

Miranda: Director Morris. Do we have a--a...Vice Chair Stevenson, can I make a comment?

Art Stevenson: Yeah, go ahead, Lewanda.

Miranda: Do we have a new manager yet?

Morris: For...?

Miranda: Do we have a new licensed...VFM?

Morris: Oh, no. Not yet.

Miranda: Oh, OK.

Morris: The person went through the licensing exam the other day wasn't able to complete it due to some family issues. So we're hoping that person can come back and complete the licensing exam and--and um, yeah, we can get that process done too.

Miranda: Oh, OK. Alright. Thank you.

Morris: Yeah, thank you. Thanks, Art.

Miranda: Art, are you on the line?

Art Stevenson: Hello?

Morris: There you go.

Miranda: Hi.

Art Stevenson: Am I off mute?

Miranda: You're off mute. Yep.

Art Stevenson: OK, um, haha...Eric, is the...Carole's place going out to bid, or...?

Morris: Yeah, I--I should have mentioned that, Art. Yeah, we're going to have to put Portland State Office Building out to bid. I was working on that announcement today, and hopefully we'll get that out in the next day or so.

Art Stevenson: OK. Um...OK, that'll be real good. Concerning the Portland Office Building, I know...that...there's two separate parts to that cafeteria. And I know, having conversations with Carole, it was quite difficult and not very...profitable to be doing the espresso separate from her cafeteria, because she had to hire an employee to run that full time or whatever hours it was open and stuff. And it made it pretty difficult for the bottom line for that location. And--and so I was, given the circumstances and knowing that information...would it be possible, Eric, for you to have discussions with building management and perhaps moving the espresso machine into the cafeteria, so that unit could be more profitable?

Morris: I think we can probably take a look at it, Art.

Art Stevenson: Yeah. 'Cause, you know, [inaudible] so far and--and...you know, mainly, from what I'm understanding with conversations with Carole, most of the stuff that they buy there anyway is coffee and not really espressos. If we moved the espresso machine into the cafeteria, then of course, you know, the other person, I--I mean the actual staff of the cafeteria, when somebody wants an espresso, would be able to, you know, for whoever gets it, their employees would be able to make the espresso, and--and...possibly make that unit more profitable. So yeah, I...in fact, knowing the circumstances and stuff, I believe that it would be very...it--it would be a good idea to combine those two things so that unit can become more profitable. So...how would you approach that? Would you send them a letter, Eric, with some backup data on...on that? I think...I think Carole has a break down of some of that stuff. 'Cause I was talking to her, and...yeah, if you've got some separate information then, you know, backing it up with evidence...would definitely be good, and then see how they respond.

Morris: Yeah, the--the complex issue there at PSOB is they--DAS manages the facility, but the location itself, they have kind of a...a loose committee, if I remember right, that--that oversees the building, because they're--everybody is a renter there. So yeah, we'll have to figure out the right people

to talk to from a--a PR standpoint. I don't think DAS is going to care either way, as long--so long as they don't have to pay for it.

Art Stevenson: Uh-huh. Well, and--and...from what I understand, there's a lot of competition around there. Other espressos like Starbucks, and...some other--. Is that not correct, Carole? Is there like a Starbucks--

Kinney: That is correct. Th--yes. There's five Starbucks, and two Dutch Brothers, and four...off brands, right around...I mean, it's very close. You just walk out the door and go to 'em. They're that close.

Art Stevenson: OK. OK. So, yeah, Eric, I think if we get the list of the competition and stuff like that, and submit it to them also, it would--it would validate what the heck we're saying, which--which I think would truly be helpful. So anyways, if we could be of any assistance to--to help get that done, I think it would be way, way beneficial for us to...to do that. And it would be beneficial to whoever bids on it, that they would be able to...increase the profitability of that location. Thank you for that. OK. What's next on the list here? Oh, I hate this.

Miranda: It's Housekeeping.

Art Stevenson: Housekeeping.

Miranda: Six is "Housekeeping: Voting by consent or individually?"

Art Stevenson: Oh, OK. And you know what? Uh...

Hauth: Hey everybody. Hi. Randy just joined in.

Art Stevenson: I--Randy!

Miranda: Hey, Randy.

Hauth: Hey. Hey. I've been listening for a few minutes. Thanks very much, Art, and everybody else. And uh, you did a nice job, Art, and thank you for that. And Lewanda if you wouldn't mind continuing to...read the agenda item by item, because I'm out traveling right now taking care of some business, and I don't have access to the agenda. So that would be helpful, so.

Miranda: Yeah, no problem.

Hauth: OK, so where are we?

Miranda: So now we're on six: Housekeeping and voting by consent or individually.

Hauth: OK. So, my thought--my thought on this was I wanted to pose it to the elected committee. I don't know if there's any housekeeping issues right now or not. If there are, let me know. But if not, we'll deal with the voting by consent or individually, so. OK. Hearing nothing. One of the things that I think gets kind of cumbersome when we're going through our meeting is every motion that's made, we go by an individual voting. You know, calling on Derrick and calling on Art. And I know that it's been recommended that way, I believe, in the past. But I mean, I don't see the Commission for the Blind Board doing that. I don't see a lot of...I mean, all the time. And I don't know if it's something we...you know, if we need to continue it that way or even what the purpose is for it. If we're voting yea or nay, can we just vote as a group, and if there's anybody opposed, then that person can identify themself. Anyway, food for thought. We don't have to deal with it right now. But...Eric, what's--what's your thoughts on that? Do you remember what that...what that was from? 'Cause I know we used to vote, and I don't know what the proper terminology would be, but we would vote as a group and then it was recommended that we vote individually, so.

Morris: Yeah, Randy, as I recall that piece of it, it had to do with the fact that--and we've ran into that, I think, a couple times this year where we're not sure who's still present. You know, 'cause of the phones and people dropping on and dropping off. And I think it--

Hauth: OK.

Morris: It basically gives you more credibility around the fact that you have a legitimate quorum.

Hauth: OK. Well that's...I mean that's--that makes--that makes sense. No--no problem with me. I don't know if the other board has any comments to make before we move on, but. OK. What do we have next, Lewanda?

Art Stevenson: Randy?

Miranda: [inaudible] Old Business.

Hauth: Oh, go ahead, Art.

Art Stevenson: Haha. Hey, hey Randy?

Miranda: [inaudible]

Hauth: Art, go ahead.

Art Stevenson: I think we need--am I off mute?

Hauth: Yes, you are.

Art Stevenson: OK. I think we need to keep doing that the way we're doing it, Randy, because of the fact of the conflict of interest and stuff like that. You know, it keeps it clean, so...

Hauth: OK. Sounds good. You bet.

Art Stevenson: Yeah.

Hauth: OK. Appreciate that. OK, and what's next, Lewanda?

Miranda: Seven is Old Business, A is...Communication Protocol.

Hauth: OK. So, communication protocol. Hopefully we can get through our meeting today and get all the business items done. I know that's something we're gonna try and strive for in the new year, and...communication protocol. I know this has been going on for some time. We had made a proposal and I know there's been motions made. I think one of the recent motions was to...include this into the rules and I think that was rejected. So my thoughts -- and hopefully I can get the support of the board -- is that we adopt the communication protocol, setting forth the outline that has been circulated and that...everybody has had an opportunity to see, and we make it as a part of our practice. And...then, you know, see what the agency's response will be to that. I think it got a little bit sideways when we included it in the rules, which, you know, I think that's fine, but if we can step back and say, "lookit, I think this communication protocol that's been circulated, and if we adopt it, we expect the agency to comply with that," it'll--it'll push the agency to identify either support for it, or not support for it, or...one or the other. So, just, with that said, I would entertain a motion to adopt that communication protocol as submitted.

Art Stevenson: I so move, Mr. Chair.

Hauth: OK. A motion has been made. Do we have a second on that?


Hauth: Lewanda seconded it. Open for any discussion. OK. Hearing no discussion, we will do a yea or nay vote. Derrick Stevenson?


Hauth: Art Stevenson.

Art Stevenson: Yea.

Hauth: Lewanda Miranda?

Miranda: Yes.

Hauth: Steve Jackson.

Jackson: Yes. Thank you.

Hauth: And Steve Gordon?

Art Stevenson: Steve's not here.

Hauth: Steve Gordon [inaudible]? OK.

Art Stevenson: [inaudible]

Hauth: And I vote yea--OK. I vote yea as well. So that motion passes. Thank you. Next on the--


Hauth: Yes.

Art Stevenson: Randy.

Hauth: Yes.

Art Stevenson: Just so you know...before you came on the line...I'm waiting to collect some information and stuff, and so I actually pulled the official misconduct part of the agenda off. 'Cause we do only have two hours today and so we'll move that on to the next agenda. OK?

Hauth: You bet. That sounds great. So...thank you for sharing that with me.

Miranda: OK, B is Draft Sub-Contracting Document.

Hauth: OK. Again, the subcontracting document, which I identify the subcontracting draft document as the document that was sent out by the agency I believe several months ago, and everybody has had a chance to review it. I know that there's--there has been some concerns back and forth shared on that. And I believe the last meeting Eric had shared that, you know, well why don't we go through and identify the concerns that we find and then we can go back and forth and back and forth. And...you know, what I would--what I would share is that personally I believe that document needs to be stricken and a document needs to be created through active participation, either through a work group setting, but with us at the table. I

think there's a lot of concerns with the document and it's so cumbersome to go through. And you know, us do it this way, the agency does it that way...and quite frankly, I've seen the agency in the past take documents that they have created and not necessarily accept any...input in it and just push it through. And so I'm concerned with that document. I think it needs to receive a nonsupport from the committee, and also an offer by the committee in good faith to sit down in the new year and work collaboratively through good faith negotiations with the agency to develop a...a policy or a procedure that is more in a line with the state statute and what was intended. And that was a simple vetting of the subcontractors that the managers can choose. And when I looked through that document, there was a lot of interweaving of pricing and oversight by the agency. It was a lot like [inaudible] the teaming partner that they created for Steve Jackson. And everything that I've heard from Susan Gashel, Terry Smith, NABM, RSVA, RSA, is that the manager who is the subcontractor, or the manager of that subcontractor or teaming partner, needs to direct and control that. So...just wanted to share that as a preface to it. But I believe we do need to take an official action on the document and also make a offering of sitting down and working together on...on this, so.

Derrick Stevenson: This is Derrick.

Hauth: Hey, Derrick.

Derrick Stevenson: Yeah, I--I concur with what--what you said. I--I think that the commission totally overstepped their bounds here by coming up with...with that. The fact--the fact is all that they meant was that they'd be vetted so that they have the insurance we need, that they have the--the abilities to supply the equipment that we need and uh...et cetera, et cetera.

Hauth: Yeah. Thank you, Derrick. Any other board members?

Art Stevenson: [inaudible]

Hauth: I would entertain a motion--


Hauth: Yes, Art.

Art Stevenson: OK. I entertain the mo--well, I make a motion that we start the process over...to...develop the subcontracting list, and through consensus and active participation with the elected committee.

Hauth: OK. That motion has been made. Do I have a second on that motion?

Derrick Stevenson: I second.


Hauth: OK, I heard Derrick second it. And Lewanda. That was a double second motion. Any communi--any discussion on this? Eric, I don't know if you have anything to say or--or not, but...

Morris: Well, I'm a little disappointed that we couldn't get any feedback on it, because I think I'm going to ask the same question when we start talking about it again. It's like, well, what specifically are the points? I understand at a general level, the things that have been said, but specifically that doesn't help. Because whether we're doing it in a group with consensus process through active participation and that kind of thing, I'm going to be drafting it. So...need to know what the big sticking points are. And so that--that's kinda what I was hoping we were going to get to today. But if...if you guys can't talk to that, then that's fine.

Hauth: Yeah. And I--I mean--OK. Well, thank you. The--you've provided your input. So, um, on--or your position on that. I do know that there were concerns brought forward to you, and if you wanted a line by line accounting of exactly where the concerns are, I think we're going to need to do that in a more...you know, complex manner then simply by email. Because...I mean, how many pages is that document? You know, it's--

Morris: Yeah, it's a few.

Hauth: Do you know? Do you remember?

Morris: [laughs] It's a lot.

Hauth: You know what I mean?

Morris: Yeah.

Hauth: So it's kinda...it's kinda...it's kind of concerning to...you know, go back and forth with it in that manner, I believe. And we need to sit through and go line by line and actually be at the table together. And if we have questions we need to ask, then we need to figure out those answers to them. But thank you. Anyone else?


Hauth: Yes, Art.

Art Stevenson: Well, I--you know. I--I just believe that...you know, to be a qualified subcontractor, to kind of answer Eric's question, is there needs to be a list of minimum requirements that they meet. In order--and--and if they meet that minimum list of requirements that they be--and--and request to be put on the list, they're put on the list. And then the blind licensed manager is allowed to pick from that list. But I--

Hauth: Thank you, Art. OK. Oh, go ahead.

Art Stevenson: No, that's all I have to say, Randy. I mean--

Hauth: OK. So a motion's been made. There had been a second and discussion. Hearing no other discussion. OK. We'll go ahead and vote yea or nay. Derrick Stevenson?


Hauth: Art Stevenson?

Art Stevenson: Yea.


Miranda: I vote yea.

Hauth: Steve Jackson?

Jackson: Yes.

Hauth: Steve Gordon? OK. I'll vote yea as well. That motion passes. Thank you very much. Next item on the agenda?

Miranda: C. Directing Use of Set-Aside.

Hauth: OK. This is another one that has been a discussion topic on several meetings. I know there was some concerns or comments made about trying to get information, and there was discussions around that. But as...again, this proposed guideline for directing use of set-aside was circulated. It was...several months ago it was circulated. It was also refined. And with that for input, the agency also had it...you know, had it provided to them as well. So I'll say right off the bat, it may not be the only document that we ever develop. We may, as time goes along, we may change it. It may not be perfect, but...I believe the creation of the document...is...coincides with a lot of the things I've seen out there when I're studied the federal registry and some of the cases across the land where the elected committee has tried to get more inclusion, involvement, and integration into the budget process. It's

clear that the elected committee has a voice in the directing of set-aside, and in the budget. And I think we're going through some learning curves here. Clearly House Bill 3253 identifies that the elected committee needs to be involved in the budget process and needs to be involved in...you know, the setting asides of funds, and needs to be involved in all those. So...through research and through talking with some of the other experts around the country, I came up with the document that again was circulated to everybody. And...you know, I--again, I'm hoping that we can get some support on this document, and we can get this document adopted, and we can submit it to the agency for their official position so we know where we are, or how to address it, or we can ask the question, if it is not being supported, why not? And it's good to have discussions like we've had, but I feel that it's time to, you know, entertain a motion to adopt this document if there's a board member that would, um, do so.

Art Stevenson: I so move.

Hauth: There's been a motion made and moved by Board Member Stevenson. Do we have a second on that?


Hauth: Derrick Stevenson seconds it. OK, any discussion around that? OK. Eric, do you have anything?

Morris: Um...yeah, just Rand--real quick, Randy. As I was going through the list again here looking at it, I--I just want to remind everybody that when it comes to the budget, like if the legislature says, hey, we're going to spend monies for x or y or whatever, the legislature, as I think I've said before, has the final word on the budget. So, um, I just want people to keep that in mind.

Hauth: OK. Thank you. Any other discussion before we call for a vote? OK.

Art Stevenson: Um...

Hauth: Go ahead, Art.


Hauth: Go ahead, Art.


Hauth: Yeah. Yes.

Art Stevenson: Randy? So I'd just like to say, yeah, they may have final say on how much money they give us, but I might remind everybody that, I believe [inaudible] anyway, I don't know the exact amount. They gave us 38,000 dollars for the program. And--and that wasn't set-aside. This particular document talks about how we're spending our set-aside, not state money. And so I would like to, you know, say Eric, I--I agree with you, the State of Oregon has the final say on how much money they're going to give us for the vending program. But...the spending of our set-aside needs to be in concert with the elected committee and--and done in that way. And--and the two amounts of money are completely different.

Morris: But, Art, but--

Hauth: Thank you, Art. OK.

Morris: Just real quick, Randy, if I could comment on that real quick.

Hauth: Sure. Go ahead. Go ahead.

Morris: So my--my understanding, and I--I'm not going to say Art's wrong, but my understanding of the process is the legislature will dictate to agencies how they spend other funds, which includes donations, our set-aside funds, and then the other--other funds we have. So it doesn't--they don't just have authority over just general fund money. So, I--sometimes that can be confusing.

Hauth: Yeah. And I guess one of my thoughts, Eric, is, I mean, obviously again, we're in a learning curve here. I believe both--both of us, you know, both parties. But other funds and the development of the budget, you know, for the...for the longest time, the elected committee had no involvement in that. And I would contend still this year we had no involvement in that setting of other funds and the proposal for the, you know, submission to the legislator by the agency. And while the legislator does--the legislative body does have, I believe, direction over the budget, I think there's still a piece through active participation that we need to get--all get better at. So I think we need to get this on the table and, you know, see where the agency is on this, and, you know, hopefully...hopefully find a better way to do business that way. So that's my opinion.

Morris: Yeah. And I--I was just going to say, when it comes to--

[undetermined]: [inaudible]

Morris: --when it comes to the active participation part of it, we talked back in May, one of the policy option packages had that specific recommendation about staff salaries in it. So that's--that was captured. I mean, it's been a

long time ago now. It's like six, seven months ago. But...yeah, that was taken into consideration.

Hauth: OK. Well, thank you.


Hauth: Derrick?

Derrick Stevenson: Yeah. I just want to bring to the attention that the reason why set-aside is supposed to be put in a distinct and separate bank account is be--is because the--the legislature and the Commission for the Blind do not have control or--or final say on how that money is spent. We're talking, you know, set-aside is more of a federal type thing. I know that the state, when they wrote the rules, incorporated and took it a little further, but the law itself is--is--is federal. So I don't see how the state could figure that they have fi--final say on--on how we spend our money.

Hauth: Yeah. And yeah, I mean, again, I think we need--I think we all need to get better at this. I mean, there's been some, you know, decisions behind this and you know, how are we getting those unassigned vending being directed through other funds, you know, without any active participation. Clearly there was some active participation during the POPS, but there's been a lot of missing pieces too, you know. So I think we need to get better at it. I think we need to put this on the table and hopefully the agency will su--support all of it, if not all of it, you know, most of it. And we need to fo--forge a better way of doing business on the budget and the set-aside, I believe, so. Anyway.


Hauth: Thank you. Thank you, Derrick. Go ahead, Art. And then we're going to take a vote.

Art Stevenson: R--right. Uh...I might--I might add that's one of the reasons why, you know, in the last meeting, you know, I...think that we need to be a part of educating and working with the legislature on the vending program and educating them. Because the law's pretty specific on, you have to justify why you're spending the money. And--and have set purposes for it. And--and those kind of things need to be followed. And so I think once we're allowed to actively participate with helping educate the legislators on set-aside...why we are making recommendations that certain things be done, and--and, you know, that certain rules and things are done. It's because we want to see our money spent wisely. And--and the program be administ--administered as efficiently and effective as is possible. And I might add i--you know, one of the things that I think that we spend time--too much time on is BE staff going

in and evaluating cafeterias every month. I don't think it's necessary. And--and so, you know, we need to adopt policies and rules so that our money and time is spent in the most efficient and effective way. And I think that's where we as an elected committee need to educate our legislators and have them help us make sure that we are spending our money in the most efficient and effective way possible. But now we can take the vote, Randy.

Hauth: Yep. Point taken. Thank you, Art. We will vote yea or nay. Derrick Stevenson?



Art Stevenson: Yea.


Miranda: Yes.


Jackson: I vote yes.

Hauth: Steve Gordon? OK. I vote yes as well. Motion passes. Thank you very much. Next on the agenda.

Miranda: RSA-15 Annual Report.

Hauth: OK. So...I wanted to bring up discussion around this and see what the board wanted to do on this. And I know we've talked a little bit about it...in previous meetings, but at BLAST, it was clear, as I recall it, not--not verbatim, but Jesse Hartle, during one of his presentations, identified the importance of the RSA-15 report, and also the elected committee chairperson and the director of the BEP...communicating and working together somehow with RSA on this. What I can tell you is, it's also been identified previously, not only here in Oregon, but nationally, that there's been a lot of misinformation on RSA-15's. And so...not speaking for Jesse, but I think maybe that's why they wanted to bring both parties together, as kind of a vetting for the RSA-15 prior to its submission. I can tell you the RSA of last year there were some questions, as Lin Jaynes...I believe alluded to previously, there were some questions about, where's this carry over fund coming from? We can't find it. What about the locations that the agency has said they're going to assign to managers? What about the survey? So I know there was a list of questions that...I--as I recall, did not get answered, or if they did get answered, did not give the answers that we were seeking. So my simple thought is, w--why,

you know, why isn't the elected committee a part of the RSA-15 prior to its submission? And I know I reached out to the agency asking for that, not only for that but also for the annual report, which I think is coming up. And...I think, Eric, you can like recap if you wish, but they believe you had stated that, you know, the RSA-15 is what it is, so that will just be submitted. And the annual report, the agency wasn't going to miss any timelines, which...I'm not sure exactly what that meant as far as our participation in it. And I know we're not there yet. I think that's next on the agenda, but going back to the RSA-15, so...you guys what--I don't know what any of the board members have any comments or concerns or proposals, but...the floor is yours. Just let me know who would like to speak.


Hauth: Art, I think--yeah, Art, go ahead.

Art Stevenson: OK. Well, I think it's very important for us to work together collaboratively to share information, make good decisions, and--and, you know, run this program as efficiently and effectively as possible. And obviously the elected committee is supposed to be involved in that. And so...we--we need to be involved. We need to be a part of the decision-making process. And...you know, that way our program will run more efficiently and effectively. And I know I've said this a hundred times, and, you know, I'm going to keep saying it. We need to adopt the way that, you know, the states that have good programs can work together at doing that. Obviously...you know, I'll gi--I'll give this new facility that we're working on...to get established. Eric mentioned the fact that, well now they're talking about a lease, versus, you know, whatever. And quite frankly, as I've said over and over and over again, you know, to run more efficiently and effectively, I believe that we need to adopt, just like they do have on the--the federal lev--level, a permit system. And once the state entity gets used to it and they don't have to go through this hassle, you know, doing a new contract every five years, et cetera, et cetera, except possibly on cafeterias just like they do in the federal level, that we're going to be better off. And so, we need to, obviously, you know, be more involved in surveys, be more involved in making suggestions on the how certain units--units can run more efficiently, effectively, just like we were talking about, you know, moving the espresso machine over to the cafeteria in--in soon to be Carole's old place. That's what we need to do and that's why we need to work together on the RSA-15's. And...so that--that--that we can help each other and we can be more efficient and effective.

Hauth: Thank you, Art. Anyone else? OK. OK, so...Eric, I mean, I don't know if you--I know you responded by email to it. I don't know if you want to elaborate on, you know, the RSA-15 report, or if the RSA-15 report is going to be, you know, provided to the committee prior to its submission for their

input, or what your thoughts are at this time; if they've changed, or if they're the same as they were last week, or...

Morris: Well, Randy, I--I--I guess the piece that's confusing to me is this is a report that...it's based on data. So I'm not sure what input the elected committee could have. That's--that's what's confusing to me. I mean, if--if you guys want to come in and help crunch numbers, I guess that could be helpful. But it's literally a report along with, I think there's four or five other federal reports that get submitted for the entire agency. So I--I, yeah, I know we're--we have our own program and stuff, but the RSA-15 report--. And I didn't hear Jesse talking about that. He didn't mention that during the staff training. So I--I'm not sure where he came up with that. And quite frankly, I'm a little disappointed he hasn't put anything out about the, you know, working together through the R--. 'Cause I'd like to hear what he's, what he's coming up with. 'Cause it doesn't, frankly, make any sense to me. 'Cause it's literally the numbers of the program. It's not like, hey, we can massage it this way or massage it that way. It's just, that's not how it works. So that's--that's my input.

Hauth: Well, and I guess, you know, I guess, Eric, just to share with you, like--like I stated the last RSA-15, there--the surveys -- and I think we'll all remember that there was like, there's a number of surveys and people were trying to say, well, do you have the background for it? Where were those surveys? And then there were, I think there--part of the report was like there was unassigned vending that was going to be assigned to managers. And then there was like this big carry over amount that we couldn't figure out where it came from.

Morris: Sure.

Hauth: And so instead of like, you know...manipulating the numbers, or massaging it, it may be good to have another set of eyes on the report to maybe, you know, bring into question, hey, that--that doesn't make sense. You know, it's just like...everybody makes mistakes: myself, you, everybody else. But it's just like the bid announcement that went out on the Multnomah County, when I brought up a question about one amount versus another amount, you said, oh gosh, well, the data that was...you know, calculated through the system was flawed.

Morris: Yeah.

Hauth: So, you know, I still don't think it's a bad thing to circulate that to the elected committee prior to submission, but...you know, just my thoughts, so. Anyway. Thank you. Anybody else? OK. Um, what's next on the agenda...Lewanda?

Miranda: Outreach Letter slash Surveys.

Hauth: OK. So I don't know if you can update us on the outreach letter and what you're receiving. I know Eric, or, Art has requested copies of the surveys and so I don't know if you can give it a once over on that. I--I do want to say just one thing in--in the beg--you know, beginning this is that I think the outreach letter is a really good first step...in, you know, helping support House Bill 3253 and creating more jobs for persons who are blind through their business opportunities. You know, self-employed opportunities here in Oregon. But the only thing I would say is that it took me back a little bit that, you know, we've been working on this outreach letter and there'd been some back and forth. And when I had asked you about it at one meeting, I believe, and I know, I get you're--you'd just come back from being gone for a while, and you said, well, I don't know. And then the next thing I know I turned around and it, you know, the letters sent out circulated, and again--

Morris: Well, so--

Hauth: --you know, i--if--

Morris: So Randy, I--I guess I'm--I'm confused, 'cause...yeah, I didn't have an update at that point, but it seemed like a pretty major thing you wanted to get done. So I got it done. Now it sounds like you're going to criticize me for getting it done?

Hauth: No, I...well, I hope I'm not, you know, I'm not trying to criticize, I'm trying to encourage that maybe it should have gone out to the elected committee. And you could have just said, hey guys, lookit, I know I didn't have an update last week; I have an update today. Here's the letter that we're sending out. And again, I'll give you kudos for getting it out and working on it. I know it's taken like...taken us a year, but I just wanted...hope that these types of thing--

Morris: Yeah, I--I just, as I'm recalling--

Hauth: [inaudible]

Morris: you gu--you guys vetted the letter back in like, well back when we were doing the POPS and stuff. I mean, it's been a while ago for sure, but we kind of went back and forth on that because you guys were concerned that the survey alone wasn't good enough for just putting it out there. It needed some kind of a--a header to go with it. So I'm pretty positive we talked about that in the spring, early summer.

Hauth: Well, would it have--just so I know, 'cause I'm a little confused, would it have hurt to send it out to the committee and say, lookit, here's the final draft; we're sending--we're planning on sending this out.

Morris: Yeah, no, it--that--that wouldn't hurt, Randy. You have my apologies. I--I thought you guys were all tuned up on it. That's why you were so, hey, get this out, get the out, get this out. So that's why I got it--I pulled the trigger on it.

Hauth: OK. Well, thank you. Um, anybody...Art, I know you wanted to talk about the surveys. I don't know if you have--if you want to now, or what would do, so. Art, you're on mute.

Art Stevenson: Am I?

Hauth: Yep. Now you aren't.

Art Stevenson: OK, now I'm not? [laughs] OK. Well, again, I put in a request to see...you know, I know these surveys are being turned in by these entities. Um, and I know Eric has said, well, I'm going to do a spreadsheet. And--and I'm just--that's the information I'm gonna send out to you. And...that's all fine and great, but me and my screen readers and...you know, spreadsheets, don't v--work very well together. And...as a manager and a part of this program...you know, I--I want to see the documents and read through them in order to help me understand, you know, this document that you're putting together, Eric. And also I don't see what is wrong with the elected committee being able to read the responses...maybe ask some questions about it and make some recommendations on how...OCB proceeds given all these responses that we get back from all these entities. That's what active participation is all about. And we have the right to, you know, read these documents. I mean...I don't...I don't think that it's an unreasonable request. In fact, I believe that the agency needs to provide us with reasonable accommodations, and the information to understand the document that you're gonna put together. And so again, I believe that me as a blind licensed manager, as the...the chair of the Vending Facility Development Committee, and also, you know, a part of this program, I have the right to read those documents and do with 'em...or make recommendations to the elected committee as I see fit. And I believe you not allowing me the opportunity to have that opportunity, it's--it's absolutely wrong. And I urge you to reconsider your stand on this and send the doggone responses out to the surveys to the elected committee and if we want to read 'em, then we'll read 'em. Uh, and then we'll be able to work together...at moving forward on implementing House Bill 3253, which is what we're supposed to do together. Thank you.

Morris: So...can I talk now?

Hauth: Sure, Eric.

Morris: So I--I'm not quite sure what Art's...I--I'm confused about what Art's saying. 'Cause all along I've said I'm going to provide the results. They'll be i--we'll provide a spreadsheet to recap 'em all, and a PDF document with all the specific...I mean it's going to be...I mean right now we've got like 24 responses in, so it's going to be a big document. But at no time did I say, hey, I'm not providing the specifics. 'Cause I figured you guys would want them. So...yeah, it's not like I've taken some big dig in the sand kind of thing and I'm not sending 'em out, so. I'm just going to--we're going to wait until the end of the month. So they'll come out next week as--when people get a chance to get it done this month, and then we'll push 'em out.

Art Stevenson: So you're actually going to give us all the surveys?

Morris: Sure, Art. If you want to read through 'em that's fine.

Art Stevenson: Alright, well what--what is the difference if as you collect them, you send 'em out to us, so when we have ti--a little bit of extra time, we can read 'em, and that way...

Morris: 'Cause Art, that's not an efficient use of staff time. That's--that's why

Art Stevenson: [laughs] And--and--and how do you figure it's not a--an efficient use of staff time, complying with the law and the request...of giving us the documents so that we have 'em and we can start--

Hauth: Hey.

Art Stevenson: --showin' through 'em? I mean...

Hauth: Hey, Art? Art, if I--if I may, and I'm--I'm right there with you, I, you know, I get--let's look at this. Eric is saying at the end of the month, he'll send these out to us in PDF so we can look 'em over and maybe that's a good first step. And we can look at, you know, down the line, you know, getting them at a more timely manner. But...I mean, I hear what you're saying. Um, you know, if you want to, if you want to, you know, continue on that one, that's fine too. But...you know, maybe we can...maybe we can take this as a positive, and then look at it again, you know. Just--just food for thought. I mean, I don't know, so. You're off--you're on mute, Art.

Art Stevenson: Well, Randy, I'm--I'm--I'm just trying to figure out how it's not an efficient...uh...ha...staff time. But...you know, you receive a document, you forward it on. It takes me two seconds to forward somebody a doggone document. Um, and so...if...well, anyways, Randy, if you don't--if they don't want to take the time right now to send them out and they're going to send

every survey out so that we can go through 'em and make recommendations...I guess I'll...cons--consider that adequate.

Hauth: Well, and we can look at it again, you know, Art. And I'll just say, in my opinion, the agency's mindset, and I'm not saying Eric or...whoever, but the agency's mindset, from what I've seen is, gosh, you guys, you're taking away from our staff time. You're sending emails. Gosh, you guys, you're asking questions. Gosh, you guys, so--. You gotta know, which you already know, it is the agency's mindset that, you know, those type of things take away from agency resources or time better spent. So the way I'm looking at it, if Eric's agreed to send out all the surveys at the end of the month, that'd be a good first start. You know, so.

Art Stevenson: Well, Randy...am I off mute?

Hauth: Yes.

Art Stevenson: OK. Well, I agree that that is a good first start. And--and so, I'll be looking forward to receiving 'em. And notice I'm compromising here, and I'm saying, OK, I'll wait till the end of the month. Uh, however, I still [inaudible] a com--a compromise on receiving, you know, program-relevant information, and said, OK Eric, why don't you make a copy of the invoices, and then if we want to look at some--one of 'em, you could forward 'em to us. And you refuse to do that, which still I feel is a violation of law. Um, and so...I look forward to receiving 'em at the end of the month. But I still would like copies of the invoices on...and that is program-relevant information. And--and so...I'm compromising. It sure would be nice if OCB would compromise and follow the law and start providing us with program-relevant information when we request it.

Hauth: Yeah. Well--well noted, Art. Thank you. Point taken. OK, any...what's next, Lewanda? I think we're doing pretty good on time. I think we have like...it's ten after four or twelve after four, so [inaudible]--

Lewanda: Yeah, we're buzzing right along. So next is Active Participation, and under that is the role of the Committee.

Hauth: OK. So...I think this was one of the items on our previous meeting. I don't know if it got addressed or not. You know...I guess we could beat it like a dead horse, but hopefully, as we continue to forge new relationships here and...you know, helping the agency...you know, find more value in the elected committee, we'll get even better and better. Um, I know we've mentioned it before, I'll just say quickly, and not to criticize, but this is the fact that what has happened is, you know, the training curriculum was developed without the elected committee. The profit improvement plan was developed without the committee. The RFP submission to the Port of

Portland--or, not the Port of Portland, but the City of Portland, was done without the--the development of it, was done without the elected committee. Um, so--and there's been some other things as well. I'm just, you know, it's just so important. That's what we have to hang our hat on, um, you know, is our role and trying to encourage the agency to find value in us. To me, if it's right or wrong, it looks a lot like the agency doesn't find the value in the role of the committee. And if we don't support some of the things the agency does, we get, you know, labeled as troublemakers or antagonistic or, you know, "gosh, we don't want to show them any documents because they'll just tear it apart and criticize us." And, um, you know, I don't see it that way. This is, you know, this is our program. The SLA administers it, you know, together with us. But just trying to find that common ground where we can have better working--working relationship together. And so, you know. Um, I don't know...you know, I don't--I don't know actually what to do on--on this, other than to keep--keep it on topic and keep moving forward with it. Um, you guys know, think back of all the, you know, we've had--we've been denied to have active participation, you know, policies. We've been denied and...being part of, you know, program-relevant information and this--these type of things. So I don't know if there's any comments from the board members, but I did want to keep on everybody's mind that this is near and dear to the role of the committee and we need to have our voice in these matters and can't be denied it. Um, hopefully we can do it, you know, holding hands and skipping through the daisies. But if that doesn't happen, then we have to find a way to wedge our way in and make sure that we have that. So, um, that's--

Art Stevenson: Mr. Chair?

Hauth: That's enough for me. Go ahead, Art.

Art Stevenson: Yeah, I agree with you a hundred percent, Randy. A hundred percent. And that is why, [inaudible] make statements that...and motions, because I listened to the last OCB meeting and Eric gave an update about the program. But, you know, we of course weren't involved in that update. We weren't involved in being allowed to inform the commissioners of, you know, any concerns we had, anything that we learned, or any of that kind of stuff. You know, I know Eric talked about...you know, BLAST, and it would have been nice if our chairperson wanted to inform the commission board of any concerns, anything that we learned, any of that kind of stuff, be allowed. And so again, you know, I can tell you that Scott McCallum [inaudible]. "Well, we've been--we've being doing these updates; I don't know what the heck Art's making public comments about it." Uh...but, I can tell you, you know, there was things...during Eric's update that I wish my chairman had been there to be able to say, "Well, hey, you know, this is what we learned at BLAST, what we learned about...you know, things that shouldn't be done, like...implementing rules that haven't gone through RSA's blessing or active

participation or any of that kind of stuff." And so...I--I want to make a motion, Randy, that we send a letter to the commissioners again, stating that they make decisions about our program, and we have the right to...actively participate them and inform 'em about our concerns, what's going on, et cetera, et cetera. So...I think a letter needs to go out to Scott McCallum saying that, hey, if we have something to update the commissioners about, we should be allowed the right to do so and put it on record at commission meetings. Randy? Randy?

Hauth: Yes, Art. That motion--that motion has been made. Do I have a second on that?


Hauth: A second's been made by Lewanda. Any discussion around that? Hey, Eric, I don't know...maybe you can answer, maybe you can't, but is there any reason...or what is the reason that the chair of the committee, or representation of the committee, isn't...included in the presentation through the Commission for the Blind board meetings like--like they used to? Like they used to allow? Do you know?

Morris: I--I don't, Randy. And I--I remember when, like you and I think Lewanda came at different times, it was kind of, you know, just once in a while. I don't remember any routine process for that.

Hauth: Yeah. There--there was a routine process for a while and I don't remember exactly. Um, you know, I think it would be...I think it's important to be there. Um, I haven't--I usually participate as a listener on those meetings. I've missed a couple of them recently, but...you know, it might be nice to have the perspective of the elected committee there too. Um, you know, I don't know. Yeah, maybe the...maybe the agency doesn't think that, you know, our concerns...maybe they just see our concerns as sour grapes and they don't want to hear it. I don't know. I'm just forecasting. That's my opinion. That's probably what it is. But...maybe we can find a way to share our concerns that are legitimate and relevant for their consideration...side by side. I don't know. But um--

Morris: Well, I think--

Hauth: OK, well, motion's--

Morris: I--I--

Hauth: Go ahead.

Morris: I was just going to say one quick thing, Randy. I ju--I know for a fact that Chair McCallum listens to every single one of these meetings, so it's not like he's in the dark about any of the elected committee BEP program type of issues.

Hauth: Right. And I--I appreciate that. I've heard him say that before, but you know, it's--it's bigger than that. I mean, talk about massage, you know, issues. I think the entirety of the board should have the opportunity to--to hear from that, you know, and that perspective.

Morris: OK. Yeah, that makes sense.

Hauth: So let's--yep. That's my opinion.


Hauth: But anyway, thank you. Derrick, go ahead.

Derrick Stevenson: Yeah, I just want to say the Oregon Commission for the Blind Board is the state licensing agency. They are the body that has final say on--on what goes on in our program and wh--what doesn't. Proof of that is, is they have to actually sign on and adopt the rule book before--'fore it goes to--to the feds. And we're--we're not being able to actively participate with the discussions that--that they're having that are about our--our program is--is--is them not doing their jobs. Active participation doesn't ju--always just mean active participation with Eric. It's...active participation with the board. That's when we start saving money. That's when we quit spending hundreds of thousands of dollars fighting complaints and stuff. And until we get to that point, we're never going to, you know, it's never going to end. And they need to be able to hold the commission staff at fault when they--when they choose to fight a battle and they lose and the state has to come up with a couple of hundred thousand dollars. That kind of stuff, you know, needs to be talked at during the--the commission board meetings.

Hauth: Thank you, Derrick. Anything else before we--any other discussion before we take a vote?

Art Stevenson: Hey Randy?

Hauth: OK. Yes, Art.

Art Stevenson: Well, I think part of the reason, you know, is because...they didn't like the active participation because they weren't hearing what they wanted to hear. And I reflect back on...the...ten percent aspect of subcontracting and stuff. Uh, and that, you know, that basically ended, "hey, we're not gonna--we're not going to do this anymore, 'cause we don't want

this stuff on the record." And so I agree with Derrick a hundred percent. We need to actively participate. We need to be allowed to put on the record our concerns and--and--and then, you know...hopefully they can make more informed decisions on--on what they're doing.

Hauth: Sure. Thank you, Art. Um, I just want to say real quickly, just for the record before we take a vote, you know, Eric, I know you--I know you can't remember everything and nobod--no human being can. But one of the things that...during the presentation to the commissioner is I believe it was asked by Scott McCallum about...commissaries. 'Cause we were talking about, you know, energy around the program and new people being interested and opportunities opening up. And he talked about commissaries and your interactions there at BLAST with commissaries. And, you know, as you recall, VendEngine...I believe Jerry Bird, myself...you and, uh, maybe Kathy, had some discussions with VendEngine and I know VendEngine has offered to come out and for free, help the program expand into commissaries. And so I know that that wasn't shared. Um, again, I know you can't remember everything, but it seemed to me like you were almost kinda dismissing the commissaries as not an exciting new thing. And I don't think that's what you believe. I think you believe that it's a great new opportunity. But...you know, again, VendEngine, and I think the offerings by VendEngine to assist us in growing those opportunities, is something that the Commission for the Blind Board needs to hear as well, so. But uh, thank you. So we'll go ahead and take a vote. Yea or nay, Derrick Stevenson? Derrick?

Derrick Stevenson: Yea. Yea.


Art Stevenson: Yea.


Miranda: Yes.


Jackson: Yes. [inaudible]

Hauth: And I'll vote yes as well. I'll vote yes as well. That motion passes. Thank you. What's next on the agenda, Lewanda?

Miranda: OK, lastly under this category is official misconduct.

Hauth: OK. And I understand that's been removed from the agenda, is that correct?

Miranda: Oh, OK.

Hauth: Is that correct, Art? Or do we need to make a motion?

Art Stevenson: Yeah, I tabled it for now.

Hauth: OK.

Miranda: OK. Next is other.

Hauth: OK. I would just like to...I'd like to make a quick motion here. Prior to the motion, I do want to say that while sometimes these meetings, you know, we get...[inaudible]...we get on adversarial points of view. Um, obviously this program is extremely important to the managers in it. It's our livelihoods and we've devoted, you know, our lives into it. So...and the agency, you know, they have their position, they have their thoughts on their administrative mindset and what they want to do and where they want to go. And a lot of times we don't align with that, right? So, um, what I believe we need to do, and I believe that we do for the most part on both sides, is try not to be...you know, try not to have a personal animosity or...you know, an--a...I don't know, a mindset, um, of opposition to the agency. Conduct business, stand up for our rights, and when the agency is not doing what believe--we believe they're doing properly, to call 'em on it, on the record. One of the things here that I do want to entertain a motion to, and prior to it, I just think it's, um, improper that the agency does not willingly offer the RSA-15 report to the elected committee prior to its submission. The same thing, I believe it's improper for the agency not to provide the annual report to the elected committee for their input and consideration prior to its submission. So I want to do a quick motion that...we so move that the RSA-15 report and the annual report by the commission that's going to be submitted to the legislators be provided to the elected committee prior to its submission for our review and input. Do I have a second on that?

Miranda: Second.

Hauth: Second's been made. Any discussion around that? OK.

Morris: Hey, Randy?

Hauth: Hearing no discussion, yea or nay? Yes.

Morris: So just so I understand what you're asking, you would ask that that report be submitted to the elected committee and you guys would provide feedback, but how would you provide feedback prior to the due dates for those?

Hauth: Well...when are--when are the due dates? [inaudible]

Morris: The RSA-15 is due by the first--by the end of this month. And the--the report to the legislature is due by January 15th.

Hauth: Well, I guess we'll have to work through that. You know, this isn't an ideal situation, really. Quite honestly, the agency has been resistant to do that, which in turn forces us to say, hey, lookit, we deserve that and we're going to by motion do that. And--

Morris: Yeah, that's--that's f--

Hauth: --you know, if you're saying now, gosh, I mean, if you're saying we don't have time to do it, well, that's not for lack of us wanting, you know. So, um, you know, that's my thought is we make a motion and we submit it to the agency and hopefully we can find a way to--to make that happen, so.

Morris: Understood.

Art Stevenson: Chair Hauth?

Hauth: Yes.

Art Stevenson: Um, yeah, I--I would assume that somebody is putting together a report that's going to the legislature. And obviously I don't know if there is a draft complete already. Uh...and... also I don't know if the commission board is going to be allowed any input on it, but...obviously, I would assume that a draft is being put together and is going to be submitted to the powers that be for their blessing before the final report is sent. And so if we had a copy of the draft, of course, then we would be allowed--we could give our input on it. And so...I know it just isn't thrown together and submitted--gonna be submitted to the legislature, that it's going through a process. Uh, and [inaudible] speaking, we should have access to those kind of documents also as the elected committee. And so I just wanted to state that part 'cause I...do believe there's writing already going on and we should be privy to that information.

Hauth: Thank you, Art. OK. So a motion's been made. There's been a second, been--been discussion. I'll take a vote. Yea or nay, Derrick Stevenson?


Hauth: Derrick--ah, OK. Art Stevenson?

Art Stevenson: Yea.


Miranda: Yes.


Jackson: Yes. Thank you.

Hauth: And I vote yea as--Thank you. And I vote yea as well. OK. Moving right along. Motion passes. Um, what's next on the agenda, Lewanda?

Miranda: Next is new business, RSA: Guidance.

Hauth: Um...OK. So, as--as you recall, it wasn't too long back that, following BLAST, I reached out to...the agency, I believe the commissioners and the agency, and cc'd all the managers, um, trying to recap the best of my ability what Jesse Hartle had talked about during his training as a representative of RSA during the BLAST convention. Um, Jeff, had talked about...about rules that...rules being submitted to RSA and being enacted as rules by state agencies prior to approval by agencies. He talked about concerns about that. He talked about, um, the elected committee not being an advisory body, but being...much more than--more than that. He talked about, um, group complaints and the allowance for group complaints. Um, and...there was...talk about the role of, you know, the elected committee in the budget, and they talked about the RSA-15 report and -- like we had talked about. And so when I sent that position out to the agency, um, the agency wrote back, I believe, and responded and said, well, that's not official guidance from RSA. So we're basically going to not change what we're doing, the way we're doing business. We're not going to change that relative to those items. So my thought was, do we need to recommend--I mean, has the agency taken it upon themselves to reach out to RSA and seek clarity on those items? I don't believe they have. Um, so do we need to...seek clarity through RSA on these items? Just trying to, you know, if Je--if Jesse was as bold and forthcoming as he was, and that was a strong position for RSA during that conference to take, because remember he's a representative of the RSA, so he wouldn't be saying it if it wasn't being validated or supported through the Department of Education, I don't believe. He's smart--is a smart guy. So, um, what do we want to do on that? Because it looks like the agency, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but it looked like the agency is not supportive of those comments. And I know, Eric, you had said that, "I never heard Jesse talk about the RSA-15 report," and you know, he may have not mentioned that in the staff training, but I'm sure you clearly heard about rules being adopted without prior approval from RSA, right?

Morris: Well, Randy, what I did is after you sent this out to me, I sent it to Jesse and I asked him, I said, hey, what--what's up with this list of things I'm

reading here that you supposedly said at BLAST? And I asked him is RSA gonna issue official guidance on it? And he said they were not, but I could call him and ask him about it. Which to me means that Jesse said some stuff that RSA isn't going to back up with official guidance, which, you know, the--the agency, as much as we love to, you know, do all sorts of things, we--we--when they--if they come out and do a monitoring and we're like, hey, we started doing x 'cause Jesse said it at a BLAST conference, that's not going to do us any good. So I, you know, I--I don't know what else to say about it besides I hear lots of things at conferences, and unless it's an official, you know, document somewhere that R--RSA is saying--. Because they--they send out policy directives. I don't think they call it a directive; they call it something--something different. But I--I think sometimes people at conferences get all fired up and say lots of things. So...yeah.

Hauth: Well, I mean, I don't think Jesse got all fired up, I mean, as the representative R--of RSA. Clearly those discussions and positions had been vetted. I mean, he wouldn't stand up there and say those if they had not been vetted. Um, RSA has been weak in issuing directives. The Department of Education and RSA have not been strong advocates of putting their neck on the line. But that's why maybe we need to put this position and we need to, I mean, it's clear--it's clear that rules can't be enacted by state agencies without prior approval from RSA. I don't think that's without--that's without question. Um, it's clear that group complaints can occur. It's clear-- you know, and so, I'm trying to figure out--

Morris: Well, you, I mean, I--I think from your perspective, Randy, that--that stuff is clear, but that's--that's not a universal, you know...maybe it is for everybody that's on the call except for me. But you know, a lot of these things, if it was clear, there'd be a policy directive or some kind of official guidance from Jesse, or OJC, or, you know--or OGC. Um...

Hauth: W--

Morris: So it's not just like, hey, it's the law--

Hauth: And I guess that's why--and--yeah, and I guess that's what we're talking about. What do we need to do? And you know, Eric, I--I do ap--I mean, I appreciate you reaching out to Jesse. I would have liked you to include the committee in that conversation, but you didn't. So, you know, that's all right. Maybe there's--maybe there's times been where I haven't always included you. I don't know. But something like that might've been nice to be included in, but I guess that brings us to the point. Is there...is...would it be advantageous for us to craft up the talking points and ask for official guidance or a position on that from RSA? I don't know. So that's why I wanted to put it on the agenda.

Morris: Well, I think--I think the answer that I--

Hauth: Board members--

Morris: --the answer--I was just going to say, the answer I got back from Jesse kind of, I mean, unless they're working on a whole bunch of stuff, but I think they're working on a whole bunch of stuff besides this, so.

Hauth: Can you forward us that?

Morris: Sure.

Hauth: That's--OK, thank you. Um, board members, what are your thoughts? Art, you're on mute.

Smith: Hey Randy, this is Gordon. I've got to run. You guys all have a wonderful Christmas, and, well, see ya--


[undetermined]: Thank you.

Morris: Merry Christmas, Gordo!

Smith: You betcha. See you guys.

Hauth: Uh, Art? You on the line? Art?

Art Stevenson: Am I off mute?

Hauth: Yep, you are. You are.

Art Stevenson: OK. Well, we could probably do one of two things, Randy. Uh...it'll be interesting to see just exactly what was asked of RSA. Obviously...the elected committee can send a correspondence asking for clarification from RSA on the topics that you talked about. And...if we want to formulate a letter saying, uh, you know, please provide clarity...can...'cause I...I do know that I heard exactly what Jesse said, that yes, the elected committee can file a complaint...that...and those kind of things. So I could actually make a motion, you know, that we...that probably the best way to do it is you formulate a letter...with the questions...get the feedback from the elected committee, and then if we need to come back to OK to send it to RSA as a body, we can do that.

Hauth: That's fine. So is that your motion?

Art Stevenson: Yeah, I make that motion, that--

Hauth: OK. So a motion's been made.

Art Stevenson: --that--

Hauth: Do we--. Go ahead.

Art Stevenson: That you...you put together a draft and send it out to the elected committee, and then...then...then send it [inaudible].

Hauth: OK, so motion's been made. Do we have a second on that?

Miranda: Second.


Hauth: OK. A second's been made. Do we have any discussion around that? OK. So hearing no discussion, yea or nay, Derrick Stevenson?



Art Stevenson: Yea.


Miranda: Yes.

Hauth: Uh...Steve Jackson? Steve Jackson? Uh, I'll vote yea as well. Motion passes. OK, next on the agenda.

Miranda: Legislative Work Group.

Hauth: OK. So, Lewanda, I know you're...you offered to head this up, and I know that, you know, legislative session starts in January. I know the holidays are here among us and we're all gonna try and relax and enjoy and have some fun. But, uh, wonder what your guys' thoughts are, not knowing yet exactly what bills may come up that might impact our program negatively or positively. And knowing that also we as the elected committee will want to...you know...provide our report as well, um, from our perspective to the legislators, which we'll clearly...include the agency in, prior to submission. Um, it's something we need to think about, you know. We need to get the...get the managers fired up, because you know how important it is when those, you know, when--when those items come our way. So...just

remember, which I'm sure you all already know when we do subcommittees, um...if you--if you choose to do it that way, we'll need to make sure and schedule everything with the...with the agency and get that, you know, proper pro--process going. And maybe we could send...I mean, I'm just, I'm just kind of brainstorming here, but what are your thoughts, Lewanda, on what would you like to, what would you like to do to move forward with the legislative committee following the holidays, or...? [inaudible]

Miranda: Yeah, well, I thought about the week...the week of New Year's, sending out a notification for a meeting, and...and inviting everyone to come.

Hauth: Awesome. Well, that's--that's a good start. So...

Art Stevenson: Hey, Randy?

Hauth: Just something we all have to have on our radar 'cause we don't know what, you know, come on, we don't know what might be around that next corner, right?

Miranda: Right.

Hauth: Yeah, Art, go ahead.

Art Stevenson: Yeah, I wa--I was just going to say...that committee assignments have not come out yet. And so...from what I understand, they may be done by this Friday, and so, you know, that'll be helpful. Obviously...the big committee that we're going to be concerned with is the Ways and Means Services Subcommittee. With here's the budget for the vending program and--and the Commission for the Blind. And so once we have that information, then we can most definitely start taking action. And...[inaudible] letters and making sure that we're involved completely in the process this time and decisions like, hey, we're going to pay a half of the set-aside for wages and stuff like that, isn't made without our involvement.

Hauth: Sure. And the way, y--you know, and the way I look at it, Art and I'm--Lewanda, that's great that you, I mean obviously been thinking about getting a meeting going. 'Cause, you know, clearly going to be an important committee to have a focus on. But one of the things I'm thinking about...is like, you know, let's--let's capture and highlight some of the things that are going well, and find a way to address or discuss some of the other items that aren't going so well and how we can try and get...some divergent change in those. And that's always a...that's always a-a-a trick. But, uh, yeah. So I'll be glad to be involved in that as--as well, so. OK, anything else before we move on?

Miranda: OK, thanks.

Hauth: Yep, you're welcome. OK, what's on the next agenda item?

Miranda: Annual Report Response.

Hauth: Um, I believe we...I believe I dealt with that previously under Other Business, just talking about the annual report and the role of the committee through active participation, being involved in that, making that recommendation, so. Unless there's anything else that needs to be discussed on that. OK.

Miranda: [inaudible]

Hauth: What do we have after that, Lewanda?

Miranda: Annual Uninsured Business Expenses.

Hauth: OK. That was an item that was brought to me. Do you want to talk about that, or you want me to talk about it?

Miranda: Yeah. Sure.

Hauth: OK. OK.

Miranda: OK, so, we got a report from Nicky Gacos about social security, and they do have an expert on hand if we ever find ourselves in a bind, um, that we can get some help from them. But he did send out a list of some of the things that we need to do, and one of them is to have our unincurred business expenses. So I was thinking that it--'cause, you know, I had problems with social security a few years back and it was hell, and it went on for a couple of years, and finally got that done. And there's been a couple other managers, the same thing. Um, so...I think that it would be a really good idea if we could get, Kathy or whoever, Kat, whoever would do it, each year, a um...report of unincurred business expenses per VFMs so that we have that information when Social Security comes knocking.

Hauth: OK. And just so you know, I did--I did talk to Eric a little bit about this, and I, you know, again, I think there's things that we're going to be able to get--get support from each other on and get off of our checklist.

Miranda: Mm-hm.

Hauth: And there's gonna be things that are going to take a deeper discussion, and maybe we're not going to see eye to eye on 'em and we're gonna end up, you know...battling over 'em for lack of better words. But I

think this--and Eric, you can chime in here, but I think this might be something that clearly isn't an issue or an item of concern and that we can work on. So, um, what are your thoughts on it, Eric?

Morris: Yeah, I--I think the only question I had, Randy, 'cause Lewanda's right, we've done this a couple times. I think it's, on the agenda it says uninsured, but I think it's unincurred, if I--if I heard Lewanda right. Um...calculating it is...it's a little bit of a challenge. It just takes a little time. But would it be better to do it on a calendar basis? Wow, someone's just like, getting attacked or something. Um, is it--is it...Lewanda, would it be better with like a January through December kind of report, or does it--would it be--could we do it on the state calendar year, or...what do you think? Does that make sense?

Hauth: Lewanda?

Miranda: Uh, could you ask me that question again?

Hauth: Hey, Lewanda?

Miranda: No, I didn't get it.

Morris: No, I was just--

Hauth: He wanted to know wh--when do you think it would be done? Annually, or...how?

Miranda: Well, I think--I think annually. Um, like maybe the end of January, since I know the agency's really busy in December.

Morris: Yeah, so i--so it'd--so it'd be a January through December type of report, an annual report on the calendar basis, then?

Miranda: Yes.

Morris: I think we could do that. 'Cause once w--once it's calculated, a--as I think you pointed out, it's--it's the same for everybody, 'cause it's a...it's a...it breaks down the same amount for each manager, unless they were in the program for a lesser amount of time or something. So I don't think that would be a--a super heavy lift to do. We just have to get the process in place to--to get it, and then we could issue the letters like I've done before. And um, like you said, it would be good, if you need 'em for reference, to have 'em.

Miranda: Yeah. I think in the--on the um, unincurred, though, it wouldn't be the same for everyone, because it would be, um--

Morris: Oh.

Miranda: [inaudible] for running a cafeteria, it'd be, um...

Morris: Yeah, you're right.

Miranda: ...equipment...vending machines for vending routes...you know?

Morris: No, you're totally right. I forgot about that part of it. I--I was just thinking it was an average of...'cause, I--part of that calculation is averaging, like, expenses here at the agency, but then there's also, like you talked about, the write-off for equipment, square footage...yeah. So I think it would be...it'll be a heavy lift the first time we do it, but then once it's--we got the calculations for everybody, each year it shouldn't be as hard to do it.

Miranda: OK. Thank you, Eric.

Morris: Yeah.

Miranda: That would be a big help, because it's just...it's almost like the IRS [inaudible], put a lot of stress on you.

Morris: Yeah, it'd be good to have in your pocket.

Miranda: OK, uh, Other.

Hauth: A--anything else? OK. What's the next side item on the agenda?

Miranda: Other.

Hauth: OK, you guys, is there any other--other business?

Art Stevenson: Randy, it's Art.

Hauth: I did--. Art, go ahead.

Art Stevenson: Well, I just wanted to make sure, I'd heard, you know, some things, and...I know Carole just got awarded the new vending facility, and...I wanted to make sure that...that OCB was...going to be giving all the equipment needed...like chip racks and all that kind of stuff, which, from what I hear...isn't...isn't a part of that location and stuff. And so I wanted to make sure that OCB was working with Carole and ensure that, you know, she has [inaudible] and...[inaudible] the chips were just being thrown in a...in a...I don't want to say a...well, let's just say a barrel kind of thing. And customers were having to go through it to pick out, you know, what bag of chips they wanted and stuff like that. And so I just wanted to make sure that, you know,

there were plans to make sure that Carole's needs for equipment were going to be provided for her...and as quickly as possible.

Hauth: Hello?

Morris: Hello?

Hauth: Hi. Yeah, I'm here.

Miranda: No, we're here.

Morris: Yeah, Art, I--we're due to--we're due to do the--the exchange over closeout inventory on Friday. So we'll take a look and see what we need and we'll get it squared away.

Art Stevenson: OK. That's real good, 'cause...you know, I want to make sure, you know, that...you know, Carole's getting everything she needs and...when I heard that there wasn't even a chip rack in there to display the chips appropriately...well, I'd say I wouldn't buy a bag of chips where everybody had to scrounge through a bucket or whatever the heck it was to find the kind of chips they wanted

Hauth: Thank you. Thanks. Hey, Eric, let me ask you, I know I came on a little late, maybe you've talked about this, but I wanted to let everybody know in case you haven't seen it, the Department of Defense, even though that doesn't...you know, impact us here right at this point of time, the Department of Defense had...I believe withdrawn their rules that they were attempting to write that would've circumvented the Randolph-Sheppard Program and the opportunities for the blind, as I understand it. It'd been a fight going on for a couple of years where they were trying to write their own rules and it sounds like they've withdrawn that. So that's one thing I wanted to share. And the other thing is, so...Eric, on the City of Portland...yeah, I would--I would concur that clearly a lease isn't the proper mechanism to utilize, but have they given you any timeline on, you know, when--what's the next step or when that operation would be proposed to be up, or...?

Morris: [clears throat] Excuse me, Randy, sorry. I kind of made that in my report earlier. Basically they're--they're having their lawyers look to see if a least is proper, or an IGA. Obviously an intergovernmental agreement is the proper--proper device for it. Um, the--that location [inaudible]. Gosh, somebody's getting attacked. That--that location isn't set to open until this time next year, so...there's time.

Hauth: OK. And uh, when will...when will the...when will Carole be transitioning into the Multnomah County, um, espresso bar, and what...like,

what's the timeline for that location to go out to bid, or...I know you had talked about it earlier, but I kind of missed it, so.

Morris: Yeah, and I--that's something I need to work out with Carole. We're going to talk probably tomorrow or Thursday more about PSOB specifically, but we told the county that the espresso stand would be closed for a little while, probably till the first, until we get things cleaned up and reset and ready to go. So there's a little bit of time. Like all the different--like City of Portland and stuff, they were in a big hurry to get answers, and now as we got into the holidays, I think everybody just...like moves back into the--the idle position, because things really slow down with different government agencies during the holidays, 'cause a lot of people taking vacation and everything else, so.

Hauth: Sure. Sure. OK. Um...


Hauth: Like la--last--. Well, let me say--

Jackson: Jackson.

Hauth: --one more thing, Derrick, and then I'll--then I'll turn it over to you. One other thing I just wanted to mention real quick is that toward the first of the year, I'm hoping that the...Facility Development Subcommittee can get together and discuss, you know, the unassigned vending that's out there and the--the Medford vending route that's out there. And a lot of the unaddressed--unaddressed items that I believe, you know, could help put...either enhance the blind managers' income and/or create new opportunities. So I think we need to start having that discussion...again. And so hopefully in January we can--we can start fixing that problem that I--I believe is a problem.

Morris: That sounds good.

Hauth: Thank you. Go ahead, Derrick.

Derrick Stevenson: Yeah, I was just wondering, talking about this espresso, I didn't really read the bid announcement, but is this like going to be a stand-alone thing, or is it just going to be added onto what she already has, or...how does that work?

Morris: No, it's a--it's a standalone facility, Derrick. And the Portland State Office Building will go out to bid...probably tomorrow or the next day.

Derrick Stevenson: And is it...is it sus--self-sustainable? Is it making at least, you know, the average income?

Morris: Yeah, the facility does pretty good, 'cause it's a combination of--of...a--a pretty busy espresso stand where they're selling lots of other little things, too. Plus it has vending attached to it.

Derrick Stevenson: OK.

Hauth: OK, anybody else before we close out and adjourn the meeting?


Jackson: Jackson. Steve.

Hauth: Steve, go ahead.

Jackson: I just want to ask a quick question to Eric. Is there a manager lined up to possibly work in the state office building? It's...I mean, 'cause I assume that's still going to be a standalone unit and there might be managers wanting it. I don't know. Do you? Does anybody know?

Morris: Steve, like I said, I'll--I'm going to put it out for bid. I never--I never try to second-guess who's going to apply for a location and who's not, but it'll go out to bid later this week.

Jackson: OK. I just...the people in the building should have a cafeteria to go eat at. [inaudible] I just want it to be a good transition.

Hauth: Alright, well, let's go ahead and adjourn the meeting and...good meeting everybody, and everybody have great holidays, if I don't talk to ya. And...thanks Eric...

Morris: Yeah.

Hauth: ...board, and members. Thanks a lot.

Motions Passed During the December 18 th BECC Special Meeting

Note: Steve Gordon absent.

1. That the previous meeting’s minutes be adopted.Proposed: Steve Jackson. Seconded: Lewanda Miranda. Passed, with Randy Hauth not yet present.

2. That the communication protocol be adopted as submitted.

Proposed: Art Stevenson. Seconded: Lewanda Miranda. Passed unanimously.

3. That the process of developing a subcontracting list be started anew with consensus and active participation from the BECC.Proposed: Art Stevenson. Seconded: Derrick Stevenson and Lewanda Miranda. Passed unanimously.

4. That Randy Hauth’s proposed guideline for directing use of set-aside be adopted by the BECC for submission to OCB.Proposed: Art Stevenson. Seconded: Derrick Stevenson. Passed unanimously.

5. That the BECC send a letter to the commissioners (specifically Scott McCallum) stating that as the commissioners make decisions about the BEP, the BECC has the right to actively participate in those decisions, inform commissioners of BECC concerns, and put BECC updates on record at commission meetings.Proposed: Art Stevenson. Seconded: Lewanda Miranda. Passed unanimously.

6. That the RSA-15 report and the annual report by OCB that is submitted to the legislators be provided to the BECC prior to its submission for their review and input.Proposed: Randy Hauth. Seconded: Lewanda Miranda. Passed unanimously.

7. That Randy Hauth draft a letter requesting clarification from RSA on various points Randy Hauth and Art Stevenson heard from Jesse Hartle during BLAST, as discussed in this meeting.Proposed: Art Stevenson. Seconded: Lewanda Miranda and Derrick Stevenson. Passed, with Steve Jackson not responding.

Transcription: Katherine Peace

Special... · Web view2019-01-03 · Art Stevenson: Well, it's three o'clock, and Randy sent a...

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Transcript of Special... · Web view2019-01-03 · Art Stevenson: Well, it's three o'clock, and Randy sent a...