Speaker 1: Bulletproof Radio, a state of high...

Speaker1: BulletproofRadio,astateofhighperformance.

Dave: You'relisteningtoBulletproofRadiowithDaveAsprey.Today'scoolfactofthedayisthatscientistsnowbelievethatifwetookalloftheiceandwateroutofthemoon'sinteriorthatyoucouldcoverthemooninaboutanoceanofthreefeetofwater,whichiskindofcool.[inaudible00:00:30]thinktherewasnoiceonthemoon.InadditiontorunningBulletproofRadio,I'malsoafulltimeCEOatBulletproof.We'reacoffeecompany.Wemakenootropicsandthingslikethat,andoneofthethingsthatIpayattentiontoishiring.SomethingthatI'dliketosharewithyouisifyou'rehiring,doyouknowwheretopostyourjobtofindthebestcandidates?Itjustisn'tenoughtofindqualitycandidates.

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Today'sguestisafriendandaguyyoumayhaveheardofwho'sdonesomethingsthatI'vealwaysbeenimpressedby.HisnameisNaveenJain.NaveencametotheU.S.asanIndianentrepreneurwith$5bucksinhispocket.HefoundedInfoSpace,oneofthecompaniesthatactuallyhelpedmegraduateformyundergraddegreebecauseIwasdoingonlineresearchwheneveryoneelsewasusingmicrofiche.Itwasanunfairadvantage,andthiswaswaypre-Google.Atonepointthiscompanywasworth$31billionatthetimewhenIwasworkinginaninfrastructureaswell.Infact,IthinkInfoSpacewasanAxisCommunicationscustomer,ifIrememberright.

Naveen: Yes.

Dave: SincethenNaveen'sgoneontoown,IthinkwithHowardSchultzyouownedoneofthebigsportsfranchises,theSeattleSonics.You'vestartedMoonExpress,oneofthemostprominentastroidandmoonminingkindofcompaniesoutthere,whichisshockingandamazing.Nowyou'vemovedinthelastcoupleyears,sincewe'vegottentoknoweachother,intohackingthehumanbodyinareallymeaningful,interestingwayusingresearchfundingoutofLosAlamosNationalLabs.Iwanttotalkwithyoutodayabouthowyougottobewhoyouare.Iwanttotalkcertainlyalittlebitabouthackingthehumanbodybecauseouraudienceisallabouthumanperformance,butreallyIwanttoknowhowdoyoupossiblygofrom"I'manInternetguy"to"I'mamoonminingguy"to"I'mlookingattheRNAinsidethehumanbody"guy?

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Thesearesuchdiversefieldsandyou'vebeenverysuccessfulintwoofthethree,andIbelievethethirdoneiscoming.Iwanttohearyourstory.Ithinkourlistenersaregoingtobeprofoundlyinterested.Welcometotheshow.

Naveen: Asanentrepreneur,it'sreallyallaboutexecution.Peoplegetsofocusedontheideas.Ideasareadimeadozen.Asanentrepreneur,allwehavetodoissimplyfocusonwhatarethebiggestchallengesfacinghumanity?Ifyouwanttocreateabilliondollarcompany,it'strivial,allyouhavetodoissolvea$10billionproblem.Aslongasyoufindwhatarethebiggestproblemsthatwecansolve,andnowthemostinterestingthingthatIfindisthatconfluenceandconvergenceofexponentialtechnologies,youandIandasmallgroupofpeoplearecapableofdoingthingsthatonlythelargecompaniesorthenationstatescoulddo.

Imaginewhenwelandonthemoonthisyear,notonlywebecomethefirstprivatecompanyevertodoso.Webecomethefourthsuperpower.Justthinkforasecond,webecomethefourthsuperpowereverhavetoachievethefeatofleavingearthorbitandlandingonanyplanetwebody.Whatthatshowsisthenextsetofsuperpowersarenotgoingtobenationofstates,it'sgoingtobetheentrepreneurslikeyouandIwhoaregoingtogooutandsolvetheproblem,whetheritiscreatingtheabundanceoffreshwater,creatingtheabundanceofenergy,gettingridofthefossilfuelsandmakingcompletelycleanenergy,it'sgoingtobeanentrepreneur,whetherit'stheElonMuskorJeffBezosorRichardBransonorDaveAsprey.Itisgoingtobeoneofuswho'sgoingtogooutandsolvethebiggestproblemsfacinghumanity,andwehavetechnologyatourdisposaltodoso.

Dave: There'sabunchofpeople,let'ssay,I'moneoftheadvisorsforthePeterTeal20Under20.I'vementoredsomeofthepeopleinthis.Forlisteners,thisisaprogramwherePeterTealactuallypaysyoutoquitcollegeandstartacompanywhenyou'reyoungandyoudon'tknowanybetterbecausethenyoudon'tevenknowwhatyou'renotsupposedtodo.You'lljustgothroughandyou'llbreakstuffthatneedsbreaking.That'stheheartofdisruption,whichmywholecareer'sbeendisruptingbigtelecomsthatdostupidthings,likelet'smaketheInternet.You'veclearlydisruptedthingsthatareactuallyreallyhardtodisruptthough.

It'seasytositherefromapositionofaguywithalotofmoneywhocanwritebigchecksandyoucanfundyourownthingsandyou'reaprofessionalinvestorwho'sbackedalotofsuccessfulcompanies.Youhavethisweightbehindyouofmomentumandresources,soyoucansolvea$10billionproblem.Nowlet'ssayyou'reasophomoreatStanfordandyou'relike,"Okay,I'minspired.IbelieveIwanttomaketheworldabetterplace.I'mmissiondriven.WhatdoIdo?"Whatyousaythereiskindofabigthing.

Naveen: What'sveryinterestingisthatjustbecauseyourvisionisbig,doesn'tmeanyouhavetoboiltheoceanondayone.Whatyoudoisyoutakeasmallsliceoftheproblemandyoustartsolvingit.Thethingyouhavetostartwithsayingiswhenyoustartabusiness,askyourselfaquestion.GodforbidifIamactuallysuccessfulindoingwhatI'mgoingtodo,canitactuallyscale,canitactuallyhelpbillionsofpeople?Isthereamarketthat'sbig


enoughthatIcangosaturateandthengooutandproveitinaverysmallmarket?Makesureyoutweakitandyougeteverythingworking.Onceyougeteverythingworkingthebeautyofthethingisthecapitalisnot[inaudible00:06:43].

Capitalgoeswithaportionthatis[inaudible00:06:45].YoumaybethesophomoreatStanford,butguesswhat,ifyoucreatessomethingthatyouhaveproveninasmallmarketthatitworksandit'sscalable,themoneywillcometoyoubecauseeveryoneoftheguyswiththemoneyhastwothings:they'regreedyandthefearofmissingout.Theywillcomeandgiveyouallthemoneyyouneedsoyoucangooutanddothethingsthatyoucandobecausetheywanttobepartofthesuccess.Everyonewantstoassociatethemselvesassuccess.TheadvantageyouhaveasasophomoreatStanfordoranyothercolleges,reallysimple.Whenyou'reanon-expert,you'reabletolookattheproblemverydifferentlyjustlikeyoumentioned.

Onceyouactuallybecomeanexpertinthefield,it'sagoodthingtosomeextent,butyou'reonlyabletoimprovethingsincrementally,maybe10percentor15percent,whichisnotbad,butthatdoesnotcausedisruption.Ifyouwanttodisruptsomething10Xor15X,youreallyhavetochallengethefoundationthateverythingthatpeoplehavetakenforgrantedwhoareexpertsinthefieldandchallengethat.Whenyoulookatinthehumanbody,doctorsaretaughtweareahomogenousorganism.WeconsistofourDNAonourgenesandthat'sallthatmatters.Untilweallstarttolookatourselvesandsayingweareanecosystem,whichisonly10percenthumanand90percentmicrobial.Wehavethewholeclimateinsideofus,andwhenwedon'ttakecareoftheclimate,weallknowwhathappens.Theorganismgetssick.

ThecompanythatIstartedcalledViome,ourgoalisreallynotthatbig.Wewanttomakesicknessoptional.Wewanttomakesicknesselective.Peopleshouldnevergetsick.Theonlyreasontheygetsickistheirgutflora,thegutmicrobiomeisanimbalance,andwhenthat'sanimbalanceyourimmunesystemgoesinimbalance.Ifyoudon'thaveaproperdiet,yournutrientsandyourbiochemistryofyourbodygoesinimbalance,andthat'showyougetsick.

Dave: There'sreallyonlyfiveorsixenvironmentalfactorsthatcomposealloftheepigeneticfactorsforyou.It'sthetoxinexposuresortofthing.

Naveen: And[inaudible00:09:02],diet.

Dave: Yeah,thediet'spartofyourenvironment,right?Youbasicallyhavelight,youhavevibration.Youhaveradiationincluding...wellthat'spartoflightsbasicallybutyouhaveelectromagneticfrequenciesthatarealsopartofthewholeradiationspectrum,andtemperatureandtime.Otherthanthat,it'sallthere.Allofthoseinfluencethegutbacteria.Theyinfluenceourcells,allthelivingsystemslisten.Whatyou'redoingthough,tellmealittlebitmoreaboutthis.OneofthereasonsthatI'mheretodayisIjustfoundoutoverthelastfewmonthsaboutwhatyou'reupto.YouknowI'vebeenworkingonHackingtheHumanBody.That'spartofmygoalwithBulletproofisgiveuscontrolofourbiology,andbecausewe'rebotholdInternetguys,weknowthefirstthingyoudotogetcontrolisyouinstrument.


Ifyoucanmeasureit,youcancontrolit.

Naveen: Absolutely.

Dave: YouhaveaverydifferentvibeonmeasuringthehumanbodythananybodyI'veevertalkedto.Walkmethroughwhatyou'redoing.

Naveen: Ofcourse.Whatwe'redoingisifyoucananalyzeyourbodyatamolecularlevel,ifyoureallythinkaboutitwemaybereallycomplex,butwe'rereally,reallysimple.Attheendofthedayourbodyisabiochemicalindustry.There'sthebiochemistryofourbody.Thatmeansifyou'reabletomeasureallofthemetabolites,thesmallmoleculesinyourbody.Thenyoufocusonallthegutmicrobiome,whichis90percentofthecellsinyourgut.AsopposedtogettingfocusedontheDNA,yousimplyfocusonthethingsthatareactuallyhappening,whichisRNA.BylookingattheRNA,you'reabletoseewhatisactiveandwhatthefunctionalityofthesethingsarebecauseyoucanlookattheenzymesandtheproteins.

Whatwedoiswelookatyourgutandwesayinagut,sinceattheendoftheday90percentoftheimportthatyouhavereallyiscomingthroughthegut.Ifyoucanfigureoutwhatishappeninginsideyourgut,youcanessentiallyseehowhumanbodyisgoingtoreacttoit.Infact,25percentofallthemetabolitesinyourbodyareproducedonlybythemicrobiome.Whenyoustarttoseethatwhydowehavesomanydiseasesthatneverusedtohappenbefore,whetheryoustarttothinkaboutautoimmunediseases,theallergies,theeczema,theAlzheimer'sdisease,theautism,thedepression,theADHDandanxiety,theymaylookalldifferent.Thesymptomsmaybedifferent;theunderlyingcostforallofthemisexactlythesame,whichisimbalanceofyourmicrobiomeandyourimmunesystemrespondstotheenvironmentthatyouarein.

Dave: Inthenewbookthat'scomingoutinApril,thenewBulletproofbookcalledHeadstrong,Ireadalotaboutthemitochondriainthebody.Whenweweresittingdownbeforetheshow,youweresayingbutthosearealljustbacteriaanyway.Forlisteners,themitochondria,thesepowerplantsinyourcells,youhavelikeathousandintheaveragecelland10,000insomeofyourmorepowerfulcellslikeyourbrain,youreyes,yourheart.They'rereallyjustbacteriathathavehighlyspecializedtoworkwithinourbody.Doyouconsiderthemitochondriatobeapartofyourmicrobiome?

Naveen: Itistosomeextent.Thinkaboutit,it'sanRNA,right?Whatwe'redoingis,ifyouthinkaboutinthebeginningwewereasinglecell,andaswebecamethismulticellthing,thissymbionicrelationship,mitochondriawasabacteriaandthenitbecameanorganellewithinourowncell.NowinfactourhumanDNAonlyproduces20,000genes.Ourmicrobesinourgutproduce10milliongenes.Youcanseewho'scontrollingwho.WhatreallyishappeningandthelatestresearchisshowingwhetherthediseaselikeParkinson'sactuallystartsinyourgut.Theydon'tstartinyourbrain,andyou'reabletocontrolwhathappensinsideofyourbodythroughyourdietandnutrition.

IknowyouandIaregoingtohaveabountyonourheadfromallthesepharmaceuticalcompaniesbecauseattheendofthedaythebiggestblockbusterdrugissomethingwe


doeveryday,whichisthefoodweeat.Allwehavetodoistaketherightsupplements,whicharenutrientsthatyourbodyneeds,becausewhat'sthebiochemistry?Itrequiresthemolecules,itrequirestheenzymes,anditrequirestheco-factor.Ifyouknowwhatenzymeisnotbeingproducedbyyourbodyorislessorwhatco-factorismissing,you'reabletocompletetheenergycycle.Whenyou'retired,it'snotthereissomethingwrongwithyou.

Dave: That'snotweakness.

Naveen: It'snottheweakness.It'sjustsimplythebiochemistryofyourbodyisnotworkingbecauseyoulackcertainenzymesorco-factor.That'swhyIloveBulletproof.IloveBulletproofbecausehonestlyatourhomewehaveapantryfullofBulletproofsupplies.There'snothingbetterIwoulddothantowakeupinthemorning,startwithaBulletproofcoffeeandhaveBulletproofsupplements.Thethingthatwehavereallydonenow,whichIthinkissosynergisticisnowworkingwithViome,withBulletproof,we'reabletorecommendexactlywhatsupplementsyouneed,andasyourbodyisadaptingyoucankeepchanging,butbetterthanthat.Youdon'thavetohaveafateanymorethatisthisBulletproof[inaudible00:14:20]actuallymakingyourmitochondriabetterornot.Youcanseeit.

ThepointisViomewillshowyouwhyBulletproofactuallyworks.It'snolongerareligion.It'snolongerafraid.It'sascience.Thattomeiswhatthebeautyofthethingis.Iknewitworks.NowIhavetheproofitworks.

Dave: Alotofushavelearnednottotrustourfeltsense.IthinkitworkedbutmaybeI'mbeingdeceivedbymyself.

Naveen: Theplaceboeffect.

Dave: Thebottomlineisweunderstandalotofbiochemistryandwecantalkaboutit,butwhatyou'redoingisdifferentbecausethere'svariousmitochondrialfunctiontestsandinfactoneofthesetsofresearchthatIwroteaboutinHeadstrong,48percentofpeopleunderage40havemitochondrialdysfunction.Theycallitearlyonset.Everyoneoverage40hasmitochondrialdysfunction;theycallitaging.It'salwaysthere.Inmyviewofthings,afterthisreallydeepresearch,isthatthegutbacteria,theytalktoourbacteria,whicharetheorganellesinourcells,mitochondria.Theytalkactuallyviabiophotons,vialight.Peoplearegoing,"What?"

Thisisnowwellestablishedinbioengineeringcircles.There'sasemiconductivethingforonefemtosecond,theselittlephotonscomeoutandweknowmitochondriaarephotoreactive.There'sachemicalmessenger...

Naveen: Ofcourse.

Dave: ...andaveryhighspeed,justthewayweusedtobuilddatacenters.There'shighspeedsignalingandlowspeedsignaling.Hormonemaychangeorasignalingmoleculeoranenzyme.Atthesametime,there'salmostrealtime,likefiberoptickindof


communications.Thisiswhyyoueatsomethingand20minuteslateryoucanbelike,"Something'snotright,"anditmaybeabloodsugardrop,butitmaybemoreofasignalofanenergycrisisthatcamefromthebacteriainyourguygoing,"Youjustateantibiotictaintedmeat,sonowI'mgoingtoshiftyourenergyregulationdown."

WhatareyoudoingatViomethat'sgoingtobedifferent?Icanguessoxygenconsumption,there'sallsortsofwaystoknowifmitochondriaworks.

Naveen: Theinterestingthingisweareactuallymeasuringeverysinglebiochemistryofyourhumanbody.Whenyou'redoingthe[inaudible00:16:24],inotherwordswe'relookingatRNA,everysinglethingthat'sbeingexpressed.

Dave: Ithinksomelistenerswillgetlostbythat.RNAcomesoutanditreadsDNA.YourDNAiswhereyourgenesarestored,andRNAhastounpackageneusing,bythewayyouuseapplecidervinegar,yougetacetalgroups,whichallowyoutounpackyourstuffbetter.Sidenote,brainoctaneincreasesketones,whichmakeiteasiertounpackDNAsoRNAcanreadit.Whatyou'relookingatisnotthestuffontheharddrive.You'relookingatthethingthatcopiesthestuffontheharddrivetoseewhatit'sdoing.

Naveen: What'sinthememory?

Dave: Exactly.

Naveen: Thebeautyofthethingisjustbecauseyourgeneshaveapotentialtoexpresssomething,itdoesn'tmeanthey'rebeingactuallyexpressed.Theepigenetics,theacetylationandthemethylationoftheDNAarethegenesactuallycontrolsifthey'regoingtobeexpressed,howmuchthey'regoingtobeexpressedorthey'regoingtobeallexpressed.Actuallythemicrobiomeactuallycontrolsthat.Whenyou'reeatingandyousay,"I'mfeelingfullorI'mfeelinghungry,"wellyouknowwherethatsignalcomesfrom?Thatcomesfromyourmicrobiome.Youlivetofeedyourmicrobiome.Whentheysay,"Iamfull,"youknowwhathappens?Itreleasesaleptin.

YourbrainreleasesLeptinandsays,"Ohmygod,IthinkI'mfull."Whenitreleasesghrelin,itsays,"I'mhungry."

Dave: OneofthethingsIlearnedintheBulletproofdietresearchisthatIdon'tactuallytrustmygutbiomebecauseit'snotactinginmybestinterests.ThebacteriainmygutbelievethatI'maPetriedishandthey'regoingtocontrolmelikeone.Thebacteriainsidemycells,themitochondria,theybelievethatI'maPetriedishandthey'regoingtocontrolmelikeone.Theirgoalsareclosertominethanmygutbacteria.There'sasymbionicrelationship,butit'skindoflikewe'regettingasignalfromthegutbacteria,andthenourownbacteriaaresaying,"Wellyouknowwhat,Ithinkyoushouldusethisenergytogooutandreproduce,sodon'twork,gooutonadateinsteadanddosomethingfunandrunawayfromthings."

Allofourcorebasebehaviorsseemtobedrivenatacellularlevel.


Naveen: Itistrue,butIdon'tthinkyourgutbacteriaactuallyisreallyaparasite.Itisasymbionic...

Dave: Sometimesitisright?

Naveen: Actuallyveryrarelybecauseyourememberwhat'shappeninghere.Forexample,thenyoueatfiber.OurhumanDNA,thehumanbodycannotdigestfiber.Itgoestoyourlargeintestineandthemicrobeseatthefiber,anddoyouknowwhattheydo?Inturn,theyreleasetheshort-chainfattyacids.Thatiswhatourbodyneeds.Insomesensewefeedthemandtheyfeedus.Naturewasvery,verysmart.Naturethought,"IfIhavetocreatethiscomplexhumanbody,itisgoingtobesocomplexthatIhavetocreateamassiveamountofgeneticthinginasinglecelltodothat."Naturerealized,"Waitasec,allthesefunctionsarebeingprovidedbydifferentofthesebacteria.Whatifwecanputthemalltogethertodothiscomplexthing?"That'showwebecameanecosysteminourselves.

Whenweeatprocessedfood,whenweeatthethingsthatarebadforourmicrobiome,it'slikeputtingafossilfuelsinsideyourbodyandwatchingitjustcompletelygettingdestroyed.Whenyoutakeantibiotics,it'slikenukingtheplanet.It'snukingthebody.Itcompletely,itdoesn'tcare,goodorbad,itkillsallthebacteria.Guesswhathappens.Thebacteriathatsurvives,itjusttakesover.

Dave: Italsogetspissedoff.

Naveen: Ohgodyes.

Dave: OneofthethingsthatIlearnedaboutinmyowncourseofhealingfromtoxicmoldinmyhouseandjustlosingahundredpoundsandallisthatwhenyoustressabacteriaorafungusorayeast,whatever,theymake10to100timesmoreoftheirownnaturaltoxins.Likesomethingjustkilledeverything,Ibettergetaggressive.Thosetoxinsarecalledlipopolysaccharides.Theycrossthegutbarrier,andtheycausebrainfog,fatigue,autoimmunity,leakyguy,andprettymuchtiedtoeverybaddiseaseincludingcancerandAlzheimer'sthatyoucanname.

Naveen: Absolutelycorrect.Thatisbythewaythecancerdoesexactlythesamething.Cancerisnotthehomogenouscell.It'sheterogeneous,andit'sactuallyanorganisminitself.Whenyoudothechemotherapyanditsurvives,firstthingwhatdoesitwanttodo?Itwantstospread.

Dave: It'swaymoreaggressive,right.

Naveen: Itwantstospreadbecauseitknowsit'sunderattack.Whenit'sunderattack,itwantstospreadalloveryourbodybecausethat'showtheorganismsurvives.Ifyoueverfightevolution,evolutionwins.Ifyouwanttogooutandyouwanttoattackthisbacteria,notonlydotheybecomeantibioticsforthisstrand,andthentheybecomesotoxicthatitstartstoeattheorganisms.Theotherthingthathappensiswhenyoudon'tfeedthismicrobiome,especiallyifyoudon'teatfiberinyourbody,thesebacteriastartstoeat


themucuslining.Whentheystarttoeatasinglecellofmucuslining,thatessentiallyisprotectingyourepithelialcellsandthey'reneeded.

Mostofyourlistenersmaynotknow70percentofourimmunesystemactuallyisinourgut.Thereasonit'sinourgutiswemaynotrealizeit,weashumanbodyarelikeadonut.We'reholeyallthewayoutandourbodyisbuiltaroundtheseoddthings.

Dave: We'reahollowtube.

Naveen: We'reahollowtube.Thathollowtubeiswheremostoftheinputcomesfrom.Guesswhat,theimmunesystemisrightthere.Ourmicrobesinourgutactuallytrainourimmunesystem,friendorfoe.Theyaretheonewhenyouinjectsomeparasites,guesswhat,theyarethefirstlineofdefense.Theysay,"Uhoh,don'tliketheseguys.They'regoingtocometakeawaymyhome.I'mgoingtokillit."Alotoftheparasitesthatactuallywetakeinourfoodiskilledbyourgutflorabeforeevenourimmunesystemgetstoit.

Dave: There'saninterestingthingcalledfastinginducedadipocytefactor.Ifyoudon'teatanything,yourlivermakesthisstuff,whichbasicallysaysburnfat,butifyoueatsomethingitsaysstorefat.Gutbacteria,theywanttomakesureyousurviveafamine,sowhenyoufasttheyactuallyinfluencethelevelsoffastinginducedadipocytefactor,sotheymakeyouburnextrafatwhenyoufastbecausetheydon'thaveanythingtoferment.Thenwhenyoustorefat,theymakeyoustoreextrafattomakesuretheyhaveabackupsupply,whichisphenomenal.Yougetthesethingsamplifyingyourownsignals,andinthatcaseyoucanarguemyliverdidthatalready.Idon'twanttheseguyshackingthesystem.Ontheotherhand,maybeit'sgoodforme,andthosesamethingsalsomakehealthybacteria,sothesymbiosisisverycomplex.

Naveen: Thesymbiosisisextremelycomplex.AlsoIthinkwe'reconstantlylearningaboutourhumanbody.Justlastweek...imaginewehumanshaveanalyzedabody.Welookedatadeadbody.Wehavecutitopenmultipletimes,andguesswhat.We'restillfindingnewthings.Lastweekalonewefoundaneworgan.

Dave: Imissedthatone.

Naveen: Yeah.Essentiallytheliningthatconnectsallthe[inaudible00:23:24]allthroughoutconnectstoourbody,theythoughttherewasseparatetissue,itturnsoutit'saonesingletissue,it'saneworganthatwedefine.

Dave: Wow.

Naveen: imagine,weusedtothinkthatallofourimmunesystemactuallystoppedattheneck.Theyfoundtheimmunesystemisallthewaytothebrain,soguesswhat'shappening.Theyfoundtheimmunesystemwashidinginourbrainthatwedidnotknow.NowwhenwetalkabouthavingAlzheimer's,suddenlywerealizeit'sactuallytheinfectionandourimmunesystemistheonethatcornerstheinflammation,triestocapturethisinfection,andthat'swhatcausesthethings.What'shappeningisthatwhenyour


microbiomeisimbalanced,itcleanstheimmunesystemwrong.Theimmunesystemstartstogetactive,andthatactiveimmunesystemistheonethatcausesautoimmunediseases,orwhenyouhavealeakygutyoustarttogetallkindsoffoodallergies.

Whenyourimmunesystemistooactive,itstartstoeatourcells,whichisautoimmunething,butsometimesasyoustarttoage,ourbloodbrainbarrieractuallygetsweakandthat'showyoustarttogetinfectioninthebrainandtheimmunesysteminthebrainstartstoinflameanditstartstokilltheneurons.Someofthetoxinremoverthingsarenotworking.Ithinkyouhavebeenreallygoodaboutimprovingthebrainthing.Imagineyou'reabletotakeablinkinglightat40yardsandsuddenlyitjuststartstomeltawaythebetaamyloid.YouhavebeenapioneerDaveintermsofunderstandinghowthehumanbrainworks,andgettingpeopletofeelsogoodaboutthemselvessimplybyusingyourdeviceasoptical.It'snotlikeyou'regoingoutanddrillingaholeinthebrain.

Simplythroughdietandsimplythroughlighttobeabletoactivatethebrainfunctionssonotonlyyoufeelgood,youactuallyarebetter.

Dave: It'sthatdifferencewhereIusedtojustthinkIwasweak.I'msittinghere,Imade$6million,I'm26.WellstillwhenIwas28.I'msittingthere,I'mlike,"I'msotired,Ican'tfocusandit'sbecauseI'mnottryinghardenough.It'sbecauseI'mnotstrongenough,I'mnotsmartenough.I'mnotfastenough."Allthatwascompletelywrong.Itwasbecausetherewasabiologicalhardwareproblem.Everyonelistening,whenitstopsbeingamoralfailingandjustbecomesaconfigurationissue,it'ssomucheasierthatway.

Naveen: Exactly.Thenwecantuneit,becausethepointiswestarttoblamethenature.It'smygenes.Uh-uh.

Dave: Screwyourgenes.

Naveen: It'snotyourgenes,it'syourdiet.Itisthenutritionthat'slacking.Ifyoucancontrolandimagineyourdietandnutritionisthebestblockbusterdrugyou'regoingtoeverhave.

Dave: Thathasbeenmyexperience.Hereweare.We'retwoInternetgeeksfrom[inaudible00:26:17],successfulentrepreneurandwe'retalkingaboutthisstuff.Iimaginepeoplelistening,wehavealotoffunctionalmedicine,antiagingpeopleandalotofjustinterestedpeoplecommutingorworkingrightnow.They'lllistentothisgoing,"Allright,thisguymusthaveanewpooptest,becausehe'stalkingaboutmicrobiome."That'snotwhatyou'redoingatall.

Naveen: Wedoactuallyhave,notthemicrobiometest,butwedoapooptest.

Dave: Ohyoudo?Okay.

Naveen: Thatisactuallyoneofthebestwaystounderstandwhatishappeninginsideyourbody,thetwoplaces.Yoururinetestandyourpooptestissopowerfulbecausewejustdon'tlookat...Today'smicrobiomereallyhasbecomeabadthing,becausemostmicrobiome


testingtodaywhenyougotothecompaniesthey'lldosomethingcalled16S,whichisagenuslevelthing.Whichisreallyasuselessasnotdoingit.

Dave: It'slikepercentageofmenandwomeninAsiansversusAfricanAmericansorwhatever.

Naveen: That'sallitis.IfyoulookatAmerica,thewholeofUnitedStates,they'llsaywelltherearesomeblacksandtherearesomewhitesandtherearesomebrownpeople,andbythewaysomeofthemarenamedSmithandsomeofthemnamedJonesandthat'sit.That'swhatAmericaisallabout.WhenyouandIlookatthatthingandsay,"Wellgee,theyaredoctors,they'reanengineer,they'replumbers.Theyallhaveverydifferentfunction."Whatwedoiswelookateverythingthat'sgoingoninsideyourbodybyanalyzingyourpoop.Whathappensisnotonlyweseeeverysinglescreenofbacteria,notjustaspecies.Everyscreen,welookateveryvirus,welookateveryphage.WelookatthehumanRNA.

Dave: Yousaidsomethingthere,phage.Mostlistenershaveneverheardofaphageeventhoughyoushouldhave,excepttheydon'tteachyouthisinbiologyandintheWestweprettymuchignoredthem.TheRussianspioneeredphageresearch.Theyjustbasicallycontrolviruses,whichcancontrolproteins,ifIrememberright.

Naveen: Basicallyphagesactuallyattackthebacteria.Whathappensifphagesdon'timpacthumansbuttheyimpactotherbacteria,sotheystarttoattackthegoodbacteria.Phagesareimportant,tosomeextenttheycouldalsobeusedforattackingspecifictypeofbacteria,soinsteadoftakingantibioticsyoushouldbetakingphagesforspecificbacteria.

Dave: Phagesliveinthesoil,unlessyouspraythesoilwithRound-Upandyousterilizeit,whichwe'vegottostopdoingthatbecausetheseareactuallymoreimportantthanantibioticsincontrollingunhealthybacteria.

Naveen: Absolutelycorrect.Ithinkalotofcounterintuitivething.Imaginewhythefirstworldorthedevelopingcountrieshassomanyofthesediseases.Numberone,thechildrenareborntocaesareansection.Bad,bad,bad,bad,bad.

Dave: Thankyouforsayingthat.TheU.S.istheleaderinceasareansection.

Naveen: Interestingthingisthenatureworksextremelywell,duringlaboryourgutfloraactuallystartstomovetowardthevaginalcanal.Whenthebaby'sbornitactuallyflowsandgetsthefirstintroductionofthemicrobiomeinthebody.Thefirstsevendays,withthebreastfedmilk,itisnottofeedthebaby.Itissimplytofeedthemicrobiomesotheystarttogrowandtheystarttodigestthefoodbecausealotofthedigestionhappensthroughthesemicrobiome.

Dave: Ihaveanalternatetheoryhere.

Naveen: Tellme.


Dave: Anyparentofasmallchildknowsthathalfthesmallchild'scaloriesareabsorbedrightthroughtheirface,whichiswhytheysmearthefoodallovertheirface.Isthattrue?

Naveen: I'veneverheardofthat.

Dave: I'mjustkidding.We'rebothparents,sowe'vebothseenit.Theremustbeareasontheydothat.

Naveen: Thesecondthingreallyhappensisweactuallydon'tallowourchildrentoplayinthedirtanymore.Firstofall,wehavetostopputtingalltheRound-Upandallthetoxinandallthefertilizersandallthecrapintothething,butgoodoldfarmsoilisabsolutelywonderfulbecausethat'showthehumansbecameonewithnature.Aswestarttoliveinurbanareas,weinfactarenotbeingexposedtoallthethingsthatusedtobeexposedtowhenwewerelivingonthefarm.Peoplearenowsellingthefarmair,becauseyoureallyneedallthethingsthatyouusedtogetfromallthefarms,becauseyouwanttogetallthosemicrobessoyoudon'tgetallergicreactionsoyourimmunesystemistrainedproperly.

Dave: Peoplewonder,"Dave,whydidyoumoveawayfromSiliconValley?"WellIhavetwoyoungkidsandweliveonanoperatingorganicfarmandtheygooutinthedirteverysingleday,andIdidthatformykids.

Naveen: Letthemeatthedirt.

Dave: Theydo.

Naveen: It'sareallygoodthing.Don'twashyourhandwithPurellallthetimebecauseyou'reessentiallymakingthesebacteriaresistant.Ithinkthatsomeofthethingsthathappeniswehavebecometoohygienic.Ireallythinkashumanswe'resupposedtolivewithnatureandalittlebitofthethingthatwe'vebecomepartofitiswhattrainsourimmunesystem.Ithinkweshouldtalkaboutsomeofthecoolstuffaboutgoingtothemoonnext.

Dave: Yeah,okay,let'sgettothemoonstuff,butIhaveacouplemorequestionsforyou,thenewworkyou'redoingaroundRNAanalysis.

Naveen: Gutinflammation.

Dave: You'redoinggutinflammationbutyou'redoingapooptestandyou'redoingabloodtest.You'relookingatthebloodbiome.Thetwothingshavegotmereallyexcitedabout,let'sactuallyjustdoaninterviewinsteadofjustchatting.Oneofthemisthatwhenyou'relookingatpoop,insteadofjustbacteria,you'relookingatveryspecifictypesbutyou'realsolookingatphages,virusesandveryimportantlyyou'relookingatthefungalbiome,whichnoonedoes,andit'satleastascomplexasthebacteria.

Naveen: Regardless,we'relookingatparasites.We'relookingathumanRNAthatshowsyouhowyourgutinflammationisdoing,andwe'relookingatthemetabolitesthatthemicrobes


areproducing,andthebloodvolumewhichnobodyhaseverdone.Onceyou'reabletodothat,sinceweareabletolookatalltheRNAs,we'relookingatthemitochondrialfunction.We'reabletoseethebacteria,phagesandvirusesinthebloodthatnoonehaseverlookedat.ThatIthinkisgoingtobesophenomenalthatwe'llbeabletofindthepredictivebiomarkersofthediseasessoweareabletocurethethingsbeforeyouevenseethesymptomsofit.

Dave: That'showit'ssupposedtobe.Everyonelisteningbynow,ifthey'veheardmorethanthreeshowsandtheyknowthatmitochondrialareattheverycoreofperformingwell.Ifyoucan'tmakeenoughelectricityinyourbody,itdoesn'tmatterhowhardyouwanttodosomething,youwon'tdoit.Howcantheygetaccesstoamitochondrialtest?Bytheway,Idon'thavearecommendedoneyet.

Naveen: EveryoneofyourlistenersshouldreallysignupforViomeservicesandforthelistenersofBulletproofwe'regoingtoactuallyhaveaspecialquoteforthemtoputthemaheadofthequeue,becauseasopposedtowaitingfortensofthousandsofpeoplewhoalreadysignedup,everyBulletprooflistenerisgoingtogetaheadofthequeueandthey'regoingtobethefirstonetobeabletogettheservice.

Dave: That'sawesome.Wedidn'tevenplanthat.Wetalkedaboutdoingsomesortofthing.Here'sthedeal.Youknowhowimportantallofthebiomestuffis.You'veheardmanydifferentpodcastswherewe'vetalkedwithJeffBlandandMarkHymanandallthesevariousdifferentpeople,butIcouldn'tfindawaytogetareliablemitochondrialtestthatdidn'trequireanoxygenmaskandalaboratory,whichiswhatIdo.Beingabletogetthisforyouisreallypowerful.Youwanttobefirstinline.ThecodeisgoingtobeBulletproof.What'stheURL.

Naveen: Bulletproof.GotoViome.com,VasinVictor,I-O-M-E,dotcom.

Dave: V-I-O-M-Edotcom,andwhatisit?It's$100amonth?

Naveen: $99amonth.

Dave: Cool.Yougetfourtestsayear?

Naveen: Fourtestsayear.

Dave: Thesearefourpooptestsandfourbloodtests?

Naveen: Yes.

Dave: Okay,cool.Ifyoucomparethattowhatyouwouldspendfornormallabtestingthatdoesn'tgetyoumitochondrial,itdoesn'tgetyoualotofthatstuff...Doyoudotelomeresatallinthat?

Naveen: Telomeresistotallyseparate.


Dave: It'stotallyseparate,allright,cool.That'sstillnotasmallamountofmoney,butit'salsoaverygooddealforfourlabteststotrackhowyou'redoingonaregularbasis.It'sactuallyoneofthemostaffordable,comprehensivethingslikethisI'vebeenabletofind,whichiswhyI'msuperstokedonit.Viome.com/Bulletproof,andjustsoyouguysknowIgetasmallcommissiononthat,butatthesametime...

Naveen: It'snotaboutthecommission.YouandIbothknowthis.

Dave: No,it'snot.Iwanttobefulldisclosuresopeopleknow.Idon'twantanybodytofeellikeI'msneakingsomethingin.Also,weareworkingongettingBulletproofsupplementssothatwhenyouknowwhat'sgoingon,thatViomecanrecommendBulletproofsupplements.We'rejusthelpingeachotherouthere.Youguysshouldknowthat,butmoreimportantly,I'vebeenwantingthisstuffforlike10yearsandnowI'mgoingtogetit.Ithinkalotofyouwillbeinterestedasastandardhealthtrackingservice,the$99amonthisactuallyaveryreasonablethingandit'sactuallylessthanIgiveasabonus.It'sacompensation.AlloftheemployeesatBulletproofgetmorethan$100amonthofdiscountedBulletproofstuffbecauseithelpsthembehealthier.

TheabilitytospendevenlessthanI'mdoingthatwayinordertogetthedatasoyouknowyou'renotwastingmoneyonsupplements,that'shuge.

Naveen: Thatisthebig.Plusmorethanjustnotwastingmoney,thereasonpeoplecontinuewithsomethingisbecausetheyknowit'sworking.Ifyoucan'tmeasureit,youcan'timproveit.Thisshowsyouit'sworkingsoyoucontinuetakingitbecauseit'sworking.Idon'tknow.

Dave: Exactly.There'sallkindsofstuffoutthere.Learningtotrustthatsenseversusjusttodeceiveyourselfissotough.WetalkedaboutHackingtheHumanBody,andifyou'relisteningtothisgoing,"Whattheheck?"WeareInternetentrepreneurs,engineeringsystemsthinkinggeeks.Neitheroneofushasamedicaldegree.

Naveen: Nomedicaldegree.

Dave: Unlicensedbiohacker.Thisgoesbacktowhatyousaidearlieraboutbeinganentrepreneur.Yougoforsomethingyoudon'tknow,you'relike,"Wellwhyaren'ttheydoingthis?"

Naveen: Exactlymypoint.

Dave: SinceIdon'tknowthereasons,I'mjustgoingtodoit.Allpeoplecomeupthroughacertainindustryseetheboxbecausethat'swhattheygrewin,butyoudidn'tseethisbox.

Naveen: Actuallywesawthebox,butIappliedthethinkingofmyengineeringboxintothisboxthatnobodyhaseverapplied.Iwantlistenerstoknowsomethingthat'sreallyinterestinghereisthistechnologywasdevelopedatanationallab.Theyspentbillionsofdollarsdevelopingthistechnologyandittookthem10years.Whatyou'rereallyseeing


is10yearsofhardworkandbillionsofdollarsthatwerespentbythegovernmenttoreallyforanationalsecurity.Nowthatworkcanactuallybeappliedforthebenefitofhumanity.YouandIarebenefitingbecauseourtaxdollarsarealreadyspentonthis.

Dave: That'ssomethingreallycool.There'salotofinnovationthatactuallyhasbeenfundedbynationallaboratories.Bytheway,myfatherspenthisentirecareersincecollegeatanationallaboratoryinAlbuquerque,theonethat'sInternalCombustionResearchSandiaNationalLaboratories.Igrewupinalaboratoryfamily,andmuchofthatresearch,theydiscoveritandmaybeitendsupinthe...

Naveen: Itsitsontheshelf.

Dave: ...spaceprogramorsomething,butit'snotused.Whatyoudidisyou'reanexecutionorientedentrepreneur,youhadabigproblem.Youhadyourownhealthissues,familyhealthissuesjustlikeallhumanshave.You'relike,"Wait,I'manengineer.There'sallthesesolutions.MaybeIjustneedtomatchthemup,"butthenyouexecuted.Beforewegetintothespacethough,howdidyouexecuteonmatching,howdidyougetsomethingfromthegovernmentandthenmakeaprivatecompanyoutofit?

Naveen: ActuallyIstartedacompanycalledBlueDot.ThepurposeofBlueDotwasexactly,istolookatsomeofthespacetechnologiescomingoutofNASAorsomeofthetechnologiescomingoutofnationallabsorattheDODLabs,andtryingtoseehowyoucanapplythetechnologyforsomethingthatissomethingtotallydifferent.Forexample,wealsoareworkingwithNASAatJPLwheretheyhadatechnologythattheydesignedforHubbleTelescope.ThinkaboutwhatHubbleTelescopedoes.HubbleTelescopeisabletodetectavery,veryfaintlightfromavery,verydistendedstar.Nowmostpeoplelookatastarandsay,"Cool."

Istartlookingatthatandthing,"Wow."Imagine,Ithoughteverybacteriahasautofluorescence.YouputaUVlightonabacteria,ithasveryfaintautofluorescence.Lightbulb.Isaid,"Ahha.CanwetakethisUVsenseandputasmallcameraandyouspitwhenyou'resick,andyouseefluorescence."Yousay,"Holyshit,Ineedtotakeantibiotics.Igotabacteriainfection."

Dave: That'ssocool.

Naveen: Nowyouhaveasimpletestforvirus,viral[inaudible00:38:52]bacteriainfectionforsomethingthatwasdonewaybackwhenforHubbleTelescope.Nowweareabletoapplythatforsomethingthatistotallydifferentandwillchangethetrajectoryofhowhumanitylivesbyjustsimpleadapting.That'swhatyouandIdobest.

Dave: Whenyoucrossover,stuffhappens.Ihadcoffeeawhilebackwithaguywhoholdsthefirstpatenteverfor[inaudible00:39:17]to11B.ThisisinMountainView,California.Isaid,"Whatareyouworkingon?"Hesaid,"WellIknowyou'redoingthisantiagingstuffDave."Hesaid,"ItookthereallysensitivesignaldetectorsweusetotroubleshootourradiosandIpointedthematmyownbody,andohmygod,there'sahugesignalcoming


offofmybody,"andheshowedmeallthedata.It'slike,"Thisissocool."He'snotadoctor,hehasnoidea,buthe'slike,"I'mprettysureIcangetdiagnosticcriteria."

What'shappeningisthefieldsofengineeringandbiologyarebecomingbioengineering,andbioengineeringisanewspecialty.There'safewpeopleeducatedinit,butmostofthethem...

Naveen: Bioinformatics.

Dave: That'sawholething.Mostofthetimeyou'regettingengineerswhoarecomingintobio,youdon'tgetalotofdoctorsthatbecomeengineers,butitdoeshappen.There'sengineerswhodon'tbecomedoctorsbutthey'relike,"I'mtiredofmykneeshurting,soI'mgoingtodosomethingwacky,"butitworks.

Naveen: Theinterestingthingisactuallythedoctorsbecomingengineersarevery,verydifferentbecausetheycomefromverydifferentmindset.Engineersareactuallyreallycoolkindofpeople.Theysimplylookatthedata.Tothem,itdoesn'tmatterwhetherdataisasensordata,it'scomingfrombiochemistrydata,it'scomingfromblood,it'scomingfrompoop.Theydon'tcare.Here'sthedataandIcanapplythesoftwareandthepatter,themachinelearning,andguesswhat,Ifindthepattern.That'swhatengineersdo.Theyactuallyarejustdatajunky.Weallareinformationjunkyandbylookingatinformation,weareabletodeducethingsthatpeoplewhoaretaughtamedicaldegreehaveneverevenlookedat.

Thebeautyofthethingisthehumanshaveneverhadthetechnologythatcouldlookatthehumanbodyinsuchadetail.UntiltheHubbleTelescopewasinvented,wethoughttherearefewstarshereandthere,andsuddenlywhenwepointedtheHubbleTelescopeinaonesquareinchofarea,wesawtherearebillionsandbillionsofgalaxiesinthatarea.ImagineturningthatHubbleTelescopeinsideyourbodyandsuddenlywesay,"Ohmygod,lookattheclimateofourbody.Whathavewedonetoourselves?"

Dave: Exactly.

Naveen: Thattechnologyhasgottensoaffordable,justlikelandingonthemoon.Thefirsttimewelandedonthemoonitcostus$25billion.Themissionthatwehadthat'sgoingoutthisyearisgoingtobeunder$10million.

Dave: Thisunmanned,right?Justrobots?

Naveen: Unmannedmission.

Dave: Whydoyouneedpeopleonthere?

Naveen: Whydoweneedpeoplethere?Becauseyoucanactuallygeteverythingthenrobotically.Asyoumentioned,I'mgoingtogobackandstepbackforasecond.

Dave: Ilovethemoonstuff.Bytheway,Ihaveananalysisstickonmylaptop.I'mahugefan.


Naveen: Maybeweshouldmeetupseparately,anotherpart[inaudible00:41:49].

Dave: Wecould.I'dbeupforthat.Guys,leaveussomecomments.We'lltalkaboutsomemoonstuffhere,butifyouwanttohearalotmoreaboutcreatingacompanythatcangotothemoonandallthat,wecandoawholeotherepisodeonthat.It'sabitdifferentthanthehumanperformancething,butaslongaswetieitbacktotheentrepreneurial,thecognitiveandemotionalsideofthings.

Naveen: Here'saveryinterestingthingistome,thegoingtothemoonisnotaboutjustgoingtothemoon.Itissimplyaboutaproofandtheshowcaseofwhatentrepreneursarecapableofdoing.Whenwelandonthemoon,Iwanteveryentrepreneurtobeabletosayiftheycanlandonthemoon,whatismymoonshot?Mymoonshouldcouldbecurethecancer,curetheAlzheimer's,understandmyhumanbodyandmakeitcompletelyhighperformance.Whateveryourmoonshotis,nowyouhavethetechnologyatyourdisposaltosolveit.Tome,weweretalkingaboutasanentrepreneurthinking,they'rereallysimple.Dreamsobigthatpeoplethinkyou'reabsolutelycrazy.Whenpeopletellyouwhatisthatyou'redoingandyoutellthemwhatyou'redoing,andiftheydon'tthinkit'scrazyyou'renotthinkingbigenough.

Thinkbigandneverbeafraidtofail.Asanentrepreneur,youonlyfailwhenyougiveup.Everythingelseisjustapivot.Thatmeansifthethingsarenotworking,youchange,youadaptandyoupivot,andthenuntilyougiveup,youhavenotfailed.Everyideathatdoesnotworkissimplyasteppingstonetoabiggersuccess.Nowtome,asyoubecomesuccessfulinlife,alwaysremember,stayhumble.Thesuresignofsuccessinlifeisthehumility.Ifyouhavetotellsomeonehowrichyouare,thenyouhavenotachievedsuccess.SuccesscomeswhenyousayIamstilllearning.Thehumancuriosity,thebestparentingadvice...we'rebothparents.Icangiveyouthebestparentingadvice,tome,isreallyismakethechildrenintellectuallycurious.

Asaparent,I'veseentheparentswhosay,"WellIcanonlytakethehorsetothewater,Ican'tmakehimdrink."Ikeepthinkingwhydoyouthinkyouneedtotakethemtothewaterormakethemdrink.Whatifyoujustmakethemthirsty?

Dave: Thereyougo.

Naveen: Ifyoumakethemthirsty,whatwillhappen?Theywillfindtheirownwaterandtheywillgooutanddrink.Ourjobasparentistosimplymakethemthirsty.Asanentrepreneur,ourjobisnottogetboggledbywhatitis,butfocusonwhatitcanbe.Whenpeopletalkaboutistheglasshalfemptyoristheglasshalffull,andmyquestionalwaysisdoIwanttofilltheglass?IfIwanttofilltheglass,doesitreallymatterifit'shalfemptyorhalffull?

Dave: Ilikethat.That'sactuallyagreatanalogy.What'sinit?Thatwouldmatter.Howdidyourparentsmakeyoucurious?You'vehadaninterestingpath.

Naveen: Ithinkinterestinglywegrewupinvery,veryhumblebeginnings.WegrewupinIndia.Thereweretimeswhenwedidn'thavefoodtoeat.Wemovedfromvillagetovillage.I


cametotheUnitedStates35yearsagowith$5inmypocket.Godhasbeenamazinglykindtous.Whatmyparentstaughtuswasit'saboutlearning.It'saboutbeingcurious,aboutabletogooutanddothings.Eventhoughmymothercouldread,shesatmedownandshewouldpointandsay,"Tellmetheanswertothisproblem."Iwouldsay,"Mom,theanswerisseven."Shewouldsay,"Don'tmakemelook.Doitagain."I'lldoitagain,andI'dsay,"Mom,Ithinktheanswerisseven."Shesaid,"Good,nowgotothenextone."

Thepointwasshecared.Shewantedtoreallyshowthattheonlywaytogetoutofthepovertyistoreallylearn,tobecurious.ShewascompletelyokaywhenIwouldtakeanythingthatIfoundinthehouseandopenitup.Mydadwouldgetsoangry,"Lookatwhatyoursondidnow.Hejustbrokethisthing."Shewouldsay,"Hewillfixit.Don'tworryaboutit."IwassocuriousthatIwaswillingtogooutandtrythings,andmymomencouragedit.Shesaid,"It'sokayifwecan'tfixit.Youknowwhat,we'llputitback,andifyoucan'tputitback,sobeit."ThepointwasthatcuriosityiswhatallowedmetobewhoIamtoday,thatIdon'treallycarewhattheproblemisbecauseIknowIcanopenitupandtakecomplexproblem,breakitdownintosimpler,simpler,simplerproblem,it'ssmallmodulesthatyoucanexecuteandyoustartdoingsmall,smallslices.Nextthingyouknow,you'reboilingtheocean.

Dave: Theideaofbreakingdownintoasmallproblem,thattiesintowhatClaytonChristensen,theguywhocoinedthetermdisruptiveinnovation.YouprobablymetClayton.

Naveen: OfcourseI'vemetClayton.

Dave: I'veworkedwithhisconsultingfirm,butI'veneveractuallyinteractedwithhimlikeonaphonecall.

Naveen: He'sawonderfulhumanbeing.Asahumanbeing,IhavemorerespectforhimthanmostoftheprofessorsIhaveevermet.

Dave: Hesavedmycareeralot,andprobablydoesn'tknowit.

Naveen: Haveyoureadhisbook?

Dave: Yeah.InfactDisruptiveTechnologywas...

Naveen: No,notthatone.HowWillYouMeasureYourLife?

Dave: Thatoneisthelatestone.

Naveen: Ittouchedmyheart.

Dave: It'saprofoundbookfromsomeonewho'sspenthiswholetimelookingatthis.Whatyou'resayingmatcheswhatClaytondid.Claytonanalyzedhowdothesesmallannoyingstartupssuddenlytopplebigindustries?Hisseminalworkwasontheharddriveindustrywhereyouhavethesecompaniesdoingseveralbillionayearinrevenue,andthentwo


yearslaterthesesmallwebstartupsarebuyingthembecauseofthiscrazydisruptivethingthat'shappening.Whatyou'resayingisyoustartsmall,yousolveoneproblem,andit'snotbigenoughtobeathreat.Thenallofasudden,itjustgrowsandgrows.Bythetimethebigguysnotice,it'stoolate.Theytryandbuyyouandessentiallytheindustry'sbroken.ThetelecomsgotbrokenbytheInternetthisway.Frankly,lostcostserversbrokemainframesthisway.We'vejustbeendoingthisforever.

Naveen: Actuallyit'sbetternow.

Dave: ohit'smuchbetter.

Naveen: What'sreallyhappeningiswiththeconvergenceofexponentialtechnologies,itdoesn'tmatterwhatlifecycleyou'reon.Everyfiveto10years,whateverisbeingdoneisbecomingobsolete.YouandIandeveryonelisteningtoit,we'relivinginthemostamazingtimeinthehumanhistory.Next10yearsthere'sgoingtobemorechangesthanhappenedinhumanhistory.

Dave: Amen.Everythingischangingrapidly.

Naveen: Hereisthething.Inthenext10to15years,halfofthefortune500companieswillgobankrupt.Here'sthebeautyofit:whentheoldguarddies,whathappens?YouandIandeveryonehasanopportunitynowtobethenewking.Everytechnologythatexiststodaywillbeobsoleteinfiveto10years.Whatthatmeansisyoucanbetheguywhodisruptsthecurrentindustry.Itdoesn'tmatterwhatitis.Letmegiveyouacoupleofgoodexampleshereforyourlistenershere.It'snotaboutthetechnologythatyoulookatwhatit'sdoing.It'sthesecondaryandtertiaryinbackofthetechnologythatmostentrepreneursmissouton,butthat'swhereactuallytheopportunitiesare.

Forexample,everyoneknowsaboutaself-drivingcar.Youwillsay,"Wellthat'sgoingtohaveamassiveimpactontheautomobileindustrybecauseyounolongerneedtoownthecar.Youcanbeondemand,andbytheway,ifI'mgoingoutonadateIcanorderaFerrari.IfI'mgoingoutlongdistance,IcanorderaPrius.Idon'tneedtoownthecaranymore."Nowimagineifyoueverstartdrivingcar,whathappenstotheparkinglots?Youdon'tneedtheparkinglots.Couldtheybecometheaffordablehousingnow?Whathappenstoalltheparkinglots?Couldtheybecometheparks?Couldtheybecomethehousing?

Secondly,ifthesecarsarecommunicatingwitheachother,wedon'tneedtobuildasmanyroads.ThatmeanswhathappenstotheCaterpillarsoftheworld?Ifthesecarsarenotgoingintoanaccident,whathappenstotheautomobileinsurance?Whathappenstothelifeinsurance?Morethanthat,whathappenstotherealestatepricesintheurbanareasbecausenowyoucanliveinthesuburbsandyourcarbecomesyouroffice.Holographicimages,youaresittingthere.Itdoesn'tmatterwhereyouare,yourlocation'sshiftednow.Therealestateisimpacted,theinsuranceisimpacted.Theinsurancecompaniesareimpacted,andsuddenlyyouhaveabundanceofhousing.


Dave: It'shappening,forsure.IliveonVancouverIslandinthesunniestpartofCanada,andinthelastfiveyearstheshift,there'stonsofsuccessfulentrepreneursmovingtherebecausetheywantcleanairandbecauseitdoesn'treallymatterwhereyou'reliving.

Naveen: Itdoesn'tmatterwhereyouliveanymore.Theotherthingisunderstandingwhenyou'relookingatsolvingaproblem,areyousolvingthesymptomoftheproblem?Areyouactuallysolvingtherealproblem?Letmegiveyouanexample.Let'sassumeyou'reanentrepreneurandyousay,"Look,Iwanttosolvethefreshwaterproblembecausepeopledon'thaveenoughfreshwater."Yougooutandstarttobuilda[inaudible00:50:55]technologyandeverythingelse.Untilyourealizewhydowehaveashortageoffreshwaterandyourealizemajorityofthefreshwaterisusedforagriculture,andit'sahha.WhatifIcanuseaquaponicsoraeroponicsandsuddenlyIdon'tneedthiswater.ThatmeansnowIcansolvethefreshwaterproblemsimplyagricultureproblem.

Thenwhileyouarethinking,"Ohmygod,Igotit,"someotherentrepreneurcomesalongandsays,"Waitasec,themajorityoftheagricultureisusedforcattle.AllIhavetodoisinsteadofraisingthecattle,whatifI'mabletotakeastemcellofacowandcreatethebiofactoriesandonlycreatemuscletissuethanbeef."I'mnotthemoraljusttotellpeopletheyshouldn'teatbeef,butIdon'tneedtohaveacattletopeelofthislivinganimal.Icanhavethebeefsimplygrowupinabiofactory.

Dave: Thatwasinterestingbecauseweweretalkingaboutthehumanbody,it'sthiscomplexsystemandit'sabouttheenvironmentthey'rein.Idonotseeafuturewherewecangrowlaboratorymeatwithanenvironmentthatcreatestheequivalentofwhatcomesoutofanimalsbecausethey'llendupmakingitliketofurky.I'malittleconcernedaboutthatonetobehonest,butIlikethevisionthatsaysifwecanmakeanequivalenthealthproductwithallofthesmall[crosstalk00:52:20].

Naveen: Bytheway,noantibiotics.What'shappeningistoliveandyoueatbeef,you'renoteatingbeef.Whatyou'reeatingissomuchofantibioticsthathasbeenputintothecow.

Dave: Ieatthecowsthateatthegrassthatgrowinthefrontquarterofmyfarms.I'mgettingrealcow,butoneinahundredpeopleordergrassfedmeatthatway.

Naveen: Very,veryfewpeoplegetthat.MypointiswhatIwasstartingtosaywasthatsuddenlythefreshwaterproblemactuallybecomesasyntheticbiologicproblem,andthat'sthepointIwastryingtomake.

Dave: Igotit.

Naveen: Itisreallyunderstandingtherootcause.Yes,bytheway,ifyoucareabouttheenvironment,thebiggestdamagetotheenvironmentisdonebythecows.Thecattle.

Dave: Youdon'tthinkit'sthepigfarms?I'velookedintothisalot.

Naveen: Thecattleandthepigs.


Dave: Thepigsarealotworse.

Naveen: Thepigsarealotworse,butmypointis...

Dave: They'redelicious.

Naveen: Cattleandthepigs,buthere'sthebestpart.Ifyoucareabouttheenvironment,allyouhavetodoiseatlessofthatoneday.Don'teatmeatoneday,youwilldomorefortheenvironmentthandrivingaTesla.

Dave: Iwouldagreewithyouifyou'retalkingaboutindustrialmeat,butifyoucareaboutsoilintegrity,youwouldwanttoeatgrassfedcowssothey'llpooponthesoiltomakehealthymaterialinthesoil.

Naveen: Actuallyifyoureallycareabouttheenvironment,thenextbigthingisgoingtobethemicrobiomeofthesoil.

Dave: That'sexactlyright.

Naveen: Ifyou'reabletoadjustthesoilmicrobiome,youcanincreasetheyieldofacrop100percentto500percent.Suddenlyyou'reabletofeednotjustsevenbillionpeoplebut30billionpeoplebecauseyou'veadjustedtheyieldofthecropbysimplychangingthemicrobiomeofthesoil.

Dave: That'sreal.Thatstuffhappens,andyoudon'thavetomakeGMOcrops,youdon'thaveto[crosstalk00:54:07]poison.

Naveen: No,notatall.

Dave: There'ssomuchsimplersolutions.

Naveen: Somuchsimplerissimplyunderstandtheecosystemofhowthisplantgrows.

Dave: Ihaveaquestion,andyoumayhaveevenseendealslikethis.Ihaven'tcomeacrossany.Iwanttostopsprayingantibioticsonoursoilbecauselivingsoilmakeslivingbiomeandyourgutmakeslivinghumans.Wearebasedonsoil.Itseemslikewithrobotictechnologywehavetoday,youcanhavefreeroamingrobotswithvisualrecognitionstuffthataresolarpowered.Everytimetheyseeaweedgrowing,theyjusttakeametalrodandstickintothesoilwheretheweedis.Whydoyouneedtospraypoisononsoiltostopweeds?

Naveen: Therearemany,manywaysofkillingthethingsthatwedon'twant,especiallytheweeds.Youcouldlasertodeath.

Dave: I'mjustlookingatpower.Youcanlaserthem,there'sallsortsofthings,butthenumberonethingyoudon'thavetodoispourtoxicstuffonthem.


Naveen: Whyisthat?Becauseitgoesbackintoyourbody.

Dave: Haveyoufundedsomethinglikethat?Thisissuchanobviousproblem.Peoplelistening,dothis.

Naveen: Thereyougo.Mypointiswheneveryonecomesacrossaproblem,thequestionshouldn'tbewhydidn'tsomeonedosomethingaboutit,thequestionshouldbewhatcanIdoaboutit?Anyonewho'slistening,youjustgotanideafromDavehere.

Dave: Thereyougo.

Naveen: Gooutandsolvetheproblemfortheweedwithoutputtinganytoxininthesoil.

Dave: Giveusrobots,eventopickoffinsects.It'snotthathard.It'swellwithinourcapability.I'mserious,ifyouactuallydothatIwilltalkaboutwhatyou'redoing.I'llgiveyoualegup.I'llintroduceyoutoinvestors,whateverittakesbecauseIactuallywanttoseethat.I'llputitinmygardentoo.Itwouldsavemetimeanditwouldbereallycool.NotthatIactuallypickmyownweeds.I'lladmit,Ihaveagardenerhelpmewiththat.Wetalkedalittlebit,yougotsometechnologyfromthegovernmentforViome,andyourmoonshotstuffthough,youactuallydon'twantgovernmenttechnologybecausethestufftheyuseisfromthe1980sbecauseit'sradiationhardenedandit'seasierjusttoput10androidphoneswithducttapeandsendthattospaceessentially,right?

Naveen: Actuallyonamoon[inaudible00:56:06]whatwe'redoingiswe'retakingadvantageofallofthelatestexponentialtechnologies.We'reableto3Dprinttherocket,we'reableto3Dprintourlander.We'reabletousethehydrogenperoxideforourfuel.

Dave: Whichisnontoxic.

Naveen: Nontoxic,andbytheway,allyougetoutofitiswatervapor.Thereasonwe'reusinghydrogenperoxide,becausewecanbuildthatonthemoonbecauseitrequiresH2Otoo,whichiswateronthemoon.

Dave: Oneofthethingsthatwasactuallyreallyjustahugemindshiftformewaswhenwefirstmet,waswithPeterDiamandisandIwenttothe10thanniversaryoftheAnsariXPrize.WewereattheSpaceXfabrication,andIwatchedthem3Dprintingarocketengine.Itwasthecoolestthing.Wegottohavedinnerandtalk.IfIrememberright,weweremakinglittlelunarlandingstationsoutoflegosasacontest.Justtoseethelevelofthesetechnologiesthataremostlyhidden.Wehearaboutself-drivingcarsandallthat,butevenifyou'rerelativelywellread,youhavenoideawhat'shappeningintermsofthespeedofchangein50differentfields,andthat'swhat'scomingtogether.You'resayingit'sgoingtocost$10milliontogetarobotonthemoon.Aretheygoingtobringstuffbackfromthemoontoo?

Naveen: Yes.Theinterestingthingismypredictioniswithin10yearswe'regoingtohaveabootsonthemoonforunder$10,000.Imaginethatfor$10,000you'llbeabletogotothemoonandcomeback,whichisreallyafirstclassticketcheaper...ImeanIthinkitcosts


moretogoonafirstclassfromheretoDubai.Mypointisthecostsarecomingdownsomuch,andthereasonisonceyoustarttogetareusablerocket,thecostreallybecomesthecostofthefuel.Whatifyoudon'thavetotakeallthefuelfromearth,because93percentoftheweightoftherocketisthefuel.Whatifwecanre-fuelontheway?Weactuallytakethewater,hydrogenandoxygen,rocketfuelandthefuelforhumanity,andyouputthemintoearthorbit,youputtheminthemoonorbitsoyou'reabletore-fuelyourselfasyou'regoingupinsteadofgettingallthefuelyourself.

Imagineonedayweareabletoliveonthemoon.IunderstandthatElonwantstogotoMars,butmoonisonlythreedaysaway.You'dratherbealunaticthreedaysawaythantobeamartiansixmonthsaway.

Dave: Ihavebiologicalquestionsabouttheviabilityofbothofthose.

Naveen: I'lltellyou[inaudible00:58:28].

Dave: Ourmitochondriaarenotwelladaptedforthat.

Naveen: Ahha.

Dave: Wecanhackthat,butthehumanbody'sgoingtorequiresomeupgradesandsomeenvironmentalchangesinspacehabitats.

Naveen: Itis.Thebeautyofthethingisgobacktothenature.Whatwefoundisthatnaturehasalreadydonethis.Youfindthattherearebacteriawhicharenotonlysurviving,theyareactuallythrivinginradioactivewasteinthehighradiation.[inaudible00:58:55]andtheradioactivewaste,thebacteriahasevolvedtonotonlysurvivebutthriveusingtheradiation.Nowimagineifyoucantakethegeneticmaterialfromthesebacteria,usetheCRISPRtechnology,soCRISPR-Cas9orCRISPR-Cas3,CRISPR-Cas1orCFCF,C1C1,you'reabletonowmodifyallhumangenessothatwebecameradiationresistant,butbetterthanthat,insteadofeatingpizza,we'llbesaying,"Baby,givemesomemoreradiation."

Dave: Justhaveuraniumtabletsforbreakfastandyou'llbegoodtogo.Nowthat'saprettydarntranshumanvision.Alotofpeoplelisteningtothis...

Naveen: It'sgoingtohappen.

Dave: Itis,unquestionably.Alotofpeoplelisteningtothisareprobablyalittlebitwiggedoutbythat.Atwhatpointdoyouseeadifferencebetweensaychangingourgenessothatwecanliveinenvironmentswherewewanttoliveversusreplacingyourselfwithrobotparts.

Naveen: Todaywhenyougetyourhipreplacement,what'shappening?

Dave: Yougotarobotpart.


Naveen: Right.Yougetyourkneereplacement,yougetyourheartreplacement.Nowtheonlydifferentisinsteadofusingabigheart,you'reactuallymaybegrowingyourownheart.Youcantakeyourskin,theskincanworkthemintoIPScellsandcanworkthembackintothethings,andgrowa3Dprintedliverora3Dprintedkidneyora3Dprintedheart.NowimagineifyouhavethenanobotsinyourbodythatarenotonlycleaningupyourbodyandrepairingtheDNA,repairingyourmitochondria,re-feedingyourmitochondria,butsuddenlyarealsoprovidingoxygen.Theystayput,theydon'tdoanything.Let'sassumeyourheartstopsworking.Youdon'tdie.Yournanobotskickin.Theystarttosupplytheoxygen.Youpickupaphone,youcallyourdoctorandsay,"Heydoc,Ithinkmyheartstopped.I'llbetherein30minutes.Canyouprintmeanewheart?I'llbethere."

Dave: Igotameetingatseven.

Naveen: Youcallyourdoctor,yougodrivethecar.Hegivesyouanewheart,youputitbackinandyou'regoodtogo.Thepointisitreallyisfreakytothinkaboutaugmentation,butithappenedslowlyenoughthatpeopledon'trealizeit.Forexample,whenyouandIwereyoungwhatwedid,wemetsomeoneweremembertheirphonenumber.NowallofthathasbeenaugmentedwiththeiPhone.

Dave: Wejustswiperight.

Naveen: Nowit'saugmented.Nowourmemoryisnowoncellphones.Wedon'trememberthefactsanymore,werememberthekeywordsfortheGoogletofindtheinformation.Wenowhaveourcellphonethat'saugmentingourbrain.Imagineslowly,slowlywe'regoingtostartdoingmoreandmoreaugmentation.NowimagineifyoucanhaveabraincomputerinterfacewhereourbrainisconstantlyconnectedtotheInternetwherealltheinformationisbeingfed.Ournanobotsinourbrainarecommunicating.Whoisthisguy?Whatdidwediscusslasttime?Alltheinformationiscomingbacktoyou.Ithinkwhathappensiswhenpeopleareworriedaboutself-drivingcars,theydon'trealizethatplanesareself-drivingforalongtime.Peoplegetsoworriedabout"I'mnotgoingtohavearobotinmyhouse."Yourdishwasherisarobot.

Thepointiswhenthingsstarttohappen,asPetersaysallthetime,thedaybeforethebreakthroughisacrazyideaandthedayafterthebreakthroughis[inaudible01:02:27].

Dave: Thenitbecomesself-obviousandallthepeoplewhosaidyouwerecrazysuddenlysaiditwastheirideainthefirstplace?

Naveen: Wellbeingrentedinthefirstplace.

Dave: Yougottolovethat.Itiswhathappensonaveryregularbasis.Ibelieveallthethingsyou'resayinghere,andwe'vetalkedaboutthisstuff.CertainlyI'minthatcamp.ForpeoplewhoarelisteningandaresayingIdon'twanttolosemyhumanity,whatdoyouhavetosaytothat?


Naveen: Thepointiswhatisitaboutlosinghumanity?Let'stalkaboutwhatmakesushuman.Ifwesay,"Idon'twanttoliveforever,"whatisthatIthatwetalkabout?IfIisyourbody,yourbodyactuallyneverlivesforanydaybecauseyourbody'sconstantlychanging.Rememberwhenyouwereatinybabyandnowyou'rethisadult?It'snotthesamebody.Ifyousayit'smyDNA,yourDNAarepropagatedthroughyourchildren.Attheendoftheday,irrespectiveofhowproudweareofourselves,we'resimplyacontainer.Abeautifulcontainerforparasitesiswhoweare.WhatdifferentiatesbetweenDaveandNaveenisourmemoriesandourexperiences.That'sreallywhatseparatesthetwoofusisthattheexperiencewehavehad,thememorieswehavehad,allthatiswhowereallyare.

Ifwecantakethatmemoriesandexperiences,nowlet'sassumepeopleareabletodotheheadtransplant.

Dave: Right.Someone'sgoingtotryit.

Naveen: Alreadythey'realreadydoingitinChina.They'reabletodoadogtransplant.

Dave: Wow,theydidadogheadtransplant?

Naveen: Dogheadtransplant.

Dave: That'screepy.

Naveen: Howcreepythisthingwillbe,youseesomeoneworkingoutandyousay,"Wow,that'sreallynicebody."That'screepy,right?Imagine,suddenlydoesthebodyreallyneedtobebiochemicalbodyanymore.

Dave: Thesearerealquestions.Thethingis,Iwastalkingaboutlivingto180plusasmypersonalgoal.

Naveen: Whynot300?

Dave: That'swhythere'saplusonthere.180istheworstcase.Ilookat...

Naveen: Whatdoeslivingreallymean?

Dave: That'saquestion.IfyouuploadyourselftotheInternet,areyoustillalive.Ithinktherewillbedebatesaboutthatevenaftersomeonesucceedsinallegedlydoingthat.Thenatureof[inaudible01:04:51]isdowehaveasoul,allthatkindofstuff.Idothinkthoughifyou,likeyousaid,youlookbacktowhatwedidwhenwewerekidsoryoulookback30yearsago,howdidwedoresearch?Itwasonopticalmicroficheinacatalog.Youcouldspendtwoweekstofindonefact.ThenyoulaunchedInfoSpace,andwhatwouldhavetakenmeweeksatthelibrarytogetmydegreetookmelike20minutesandthenIcouldgooutandhavepizza.Itchangedeverythingfromaresearchperspective.


Youlookatthecellphonesthatwehavenow,andyouriPhoneisthesumoftheworld'scomputepowerin1960andallofthat.Iwouldjustencouragelisteners,youliveinthefuture,youseethefuture.Idothesamesortofthing.Noneofthisiscrazybecauseit'sallhappeningwithinourlifetimes.

Naveen: Here'sthething.Notonlyinourlifetime,inthenext10yearsthere'snodoubtinmymindwe'llbeabletounderstandthehumanbiology,arecellsgoodenough.Aswesaid,thesicknesswillbecomeoptional.Whatiftheaging,asweallknow,isoneotherdisease?Whatiftheagingbecomesoptional?

Dave: Itwill.Absolutely.

Naveen: That'smypoint.Whydoweage?It'sreallysimple.It'sbecausesomehowourcellsarenolongerabletokeepupbecauseeithernutrientsarelacking,ourDNArepairmachineisbrokenorthemitochondriaisnotfunctioningproperly,butallthosethingswillgetfixedup.Whentheygetfixedup...Peoplesay,"Idon'twanttoliveupto100"becauseintheirmind,100isafragileoldman.Canbarelywalk,inawalker.No.Thinkaboutwhenyouwere30yearold,andifyoucouldactuallybelikethatforthenext300years,whowouldn'twanttobe?

Dave: Idon'tunderstandthat.I'vemetalotofpeoplewhosay,"IthinkI'dgetbored."Idon'tunderstandboredom.There'salwayssomethinginteresting.

Naveen: Youknowwhat,ifyouareactuallybelieveyou'regoingtogetbored,youneedanewlife.

Dave: Heyman.

Naveen: MypointisIcan'tfindenoughhoursinaday.Ionlysleepfourhoursadaybecausethere'ssomuchtodo.Iwakeupinthemorning,IjumpoutofthebedbecauseI'mthinking,"Ohmygod,there'ssomuchhappening."I'mjustsoexcitedaboutlife.Ilovelife.Ilovelearning.Whereistheboredom?Thedayyoustoplearningisthedayyouactuallyhavedied.Mostpeoplewhoareboredareactuallyalreadydead,soIdon'tknowwhythey'rejustnot...

Dave: Getoutoftheway.

Naveen: They'rezombies.Theyliterallyarezombiesnow.Theminuteyourbrainisnolongergrowing,youhavebecomeaparasiteonsociety.

Dave: Wow,thatispowerfulandIagree.Ifyou'renotheretodosomething,it'sokaytogetoutoftheway.Yousaidsomethingthat'sinterestingthere.IwentthroughaperiodwhenIwasanewdad,IwasworkingasaVPatabigtechcompany,headofGlobalEvangelismsoflyingaroundalot,andIstartedBulletproof.I'msleepingfivehoursmaxanight,IdiditfortwoyearsandoftenI'ddowasthreeorfourhoursnight.Ilostweight.AllthebiomarkersIhadwerefine.Idon'tthinkitwasnecessarilygoodforme.ItmighthaveshortenedsometelomeresandIsleepactuallysixhours,notsixhours,it'ssix


hoursandfourminutesforthelastthreeandahalfyearsaccordingtomydatastuff.LastnightwasfourandahalfandI'mfinetoday.Peoplecan'tseeus.

You'regettingaboutfourhoursanight,butyou'realsorunningnowahealthcompany,andthere'sprettygooddatayoushouldbegettingsixhours.Whatdoyousaytothat?

Naveen: Ithinktheanswerabsolutelytrue.There'snodoubtinmymindIprobablyneedanothertwohours.Itwillprobablywillhappen,butI'mjustsoexcited.I'msoexcitedaboutwhatI'mdoing.Ithinktosomeextentwhenyougettoourage...

Dave: Howoldareyou?

Naveen: 57.

Dave: Okay,cool.God,youdon'tlook57.

Naveen: Ohthanks.MypointiseverydayIthink,"Ohmygod,there'ssomuchtobedone."Ijustgetsoexcitedaboutdoingthings,butI'mgoingtomakeitapointtoactuallystartgettingadditionaltwohours,andIdowanttogettoasixhourtimebecauseIknowit'sgoodforme.

Dave: Doyoumonitoryourhumangrowthhormone,yourtestosterone,allyourbiomarkers?

Naveen: Inallhonesty,Idon'tbutIshould.

Dave: ImonitormyRNAexpressiontoseeifmymitochondriawork,butIdon'tlookatmyhumangrowthhormone.That'scool.That'sfunny.

Naveen: It'soneofthosethings,it'slikeIfeelgood.

Dave: Also,assomeonewho'sworkedwithalotofpeopleincludingpeoplewithchronicfatigueandpeoplewhodon't,youhavetheeyesandtheskinofsomeoneyoungerthanyouare.Thoseareveryobviousgiveawaythings.Yourenergylevelis,Idon'tknow,you'reprobablynotonAdderall,buteverytimeI'veevertalkedwithyou,I'veeverinteractedwithyou,you'realwaysjustpassionateandfullofenergy,whichareprobablybetterindicatorsthanalabvalue.Youcantell.You'renotsubstantiallyoverweightorunderweightandallthat.Ibelieveinveryheavilytrackingwhatyou'rehacking.Youcanspendallyourtimetrackingeveryfiveminuteseverything,thatyou'renevergoingtochange.Whocares?That'snotusefuldata.

Naveen: Ithinkthat'swhathappens.Peoplegetsocaughtupinthedatathattheyfirstofallcan'tchange.Forexample,lookingataDNA.WhybotherlookingatDNA?Youcan'tchangeitanyway.

Dave: Orforthatmatter,let'slookatcholesterolbecauseit'seasytomeasureeventhoughit'saterribleindicatorofhealth.


Naveen: Cholesterolisgoodforyou.

Dave: Oops.

Naveen: Natureisnotthatstupid.Toomuchofeverythingisbad,butcholesterolinitselfisnotabadthing.Likefat.Oneofthethingsthatpeoplejustdon'trealize,fatisnottheenemy.Yourenemyistheglucose,yourenemyisthesugar.

Dave: Orjustdamagedfat.Transfatsandthingslikethat.It'soneofthosethingswhereIthinkguyslikeMarkHymanandDavidLudwig,whoI'vebecomefriendswith,Dr.Perlmutter,theycallitthefatsoutofthebaginsteadofthecat'soutofthebag.Ithinkit'sbecomingincreasinglyhardforthe1970sphysicianswho'vebeenrecommendingtheselowfatdietsforalongtime.Peoplejustdon'tlistenbecauseit'snotcredibleanymore.

Naveen: Firstofall,ithasneverbeencredible.Second,personallyIbelieverthere'snoonedietisgoodforeveryone.Evenashumans,wehave90percentcommonDNAbetweenusandaplant.

Dave: Andpoliticiansareactually98percent.

Naveen: They'reprobably98percentwiththeparasites.Mypointiswhatmakesusreallydifferentisourmicrobiome.Ifourmicrobiomebetweentwoindividuals,lessthan10percentofourmicrobiomewehaveincommoneventhough99percentofourDNAisthesame.Mypointisthesamedietthatisgoodforyoumaynotbegoodforme.That'sreallywhatIbelievethenextbigplanisgoingtobethedietthat'sbasedonthetest.Thatmeanspersonalizeddietbasedonyourmicrobiome,basedonyourmetabolome.You'rereallylookingatyourmetabolitesandadjustingyournutrientsanddietbasedonthosetwothings,yourmetabolomeandmicrobiomeandgutinflammation.Reallythekeytointermsofhowyou'regoingtoadjustyourdiet,andnotwodietsaregoingtobealike.

Dave: Whataboutfecaltransplants?I'velookedatthat.TheFDAsomehowthinksthatpoopisadrugnow,whichkindofmakesmelaugh.

Naveen: Ihatetosayit,butIreallythinkthebestwaytoactuallyrepopulateandre-wireyourmicrobiomeisreallyafecalmattertransplant.FMTisthebestwaytodothat,probiotic.Whenyoutakeprobiotic,it'stransient.Ittunestheimmunesystembutitdoesnotstaythere.Youhavetoconstantlykeeptakingitbecauseyoudotraintheimmunesystem,butmostofthemactuallydieinyourstomachanyway.

Dave: Couldn'tyoujustputtheprobioticsintheotherend?

Naveen: Theanswerwouldbe[inaudible01:12:59].Basicallyyourpoopisnothingbutessentiallyamicrobiomere-transplant.

Dave: Yeah,it'shumancompost.


Naveen: Ireallythinktosomeextentthatisthekey.Ithinkwhatalotoftheresearchisshowingisthatthey'reabletofindtheobesity.Autoimmunediseases,allthosethings,youtakeafatmiceandtakeapoopfromafatmice,giveittothethinmice,thethinmicebecomesfat.

Dave: ThatwasintheBulletproofDiet.Youreadaboutthatstudy.

Naveen: Thinmice,youtakeamicrobiome,thepoopandputtheminafatmice,thefacemicebecomesthin.

Dave: DoesthatmeanareyougoingtobeabletobuyMichaelPhelpspooponeBay?Howdoyouknowwheretogetthisstuff?You'redoingmicrobiometestingasapartofViome,andIabsolutelylovedoingonceeverythreemonthssoyoucanseewhatchanged.Itchangesin48hourswhenyoueatpizza.

Naveen: Itdoes.

Dave: Allthebadonescomeupthatmakethecancercausingthings.It'sprettyfast.

Naveen: Itis.

Dave: Whataboutthis?Wheredopeoplegetthat?What'syourthough?

Naveen: Ithinkthatattheendoftheday,youneedto,insteadofjuststoringyourstemcells,youshouldalsobestoringyourpoop.Whenyou'rehealthyyouhaveyourpoopandwhenyouactuallygetsickandGodforbidyouhavetotakeantibioticsandyou'regoingtoessentiallycarpetbombyourgutflora,youneedtogobackandre-populatewithyourownhealthymicrobiome.

Dave: Doallthosebacteriaandphagesandallthat,dotheysurvive[inaudible01:14:29]?

Naveen: Theyabsolutelysurvive.

Dave: Interesting.There'sactuallyarealbusinessopportunitythere.Iwoulddothat.Infact,oneofmykidshasneverhadanyantibiotics.Theotheronehadoneforarapidlyspreadinginfectionthatwasnecessary.

Naveen: That'smypoint.Iftheyhadapoop,theycouldtheyhavere-plantedthat.

Dave: Ihaveasevenyearold'sperfectlyhealthypoop,butIknowitwon'tlastinmyfreezer,butIhaveliquidnitrogenathomebecauseofacryotherapychamber.Icouldworksomethingout.Weneedabankforthat.

Naveen: Youneedapoopbank.Ireallythinkthepoopbankandstemcellbankarereallythekey.

Dave: That'ssuchacoolidea.Somebodystartthat.I'llmakeadeposit.


Naveen: Actuallytheinterestingthingisthesametypeofthingisthatyoutalkaboutlivinglongandlivinghealthy.Anotherthingyoucoulddoistheresearchshowsthatwhenthey'reabletotakebloodfromayoungperson,ayoungmicetoanoldmice,itactuallyreversedaging.

Dave: I'velookedatthefeasibilityofjusthiringacollegestudentwhodoesn'tdoalotofbaddrugsandthingslikethatthataregoingtomessthemupandjustbelike,"Here'sthedeal.Here'sasizeablecheckwhichistoencourageyoutoliveahealthylifeandtopayforyourqualityfoodandallthatstuff.Sincegivingbloodeverysixweeksisgoodforyouanyway,itdoesn'tharmyouinanyway,whydon'twejustdothat?"IknowPeterTeal,peoplearelike,"He'savampire."Whothehellcares?Thisseemslikeagreatwayforayoungpersontohelpsupplementtheirschoolingorsomething,andwhywouldn'tyou?

Naveen: Theinterestingthingisyoudon'thavetodothatanymorebecauseyoushouldbeabletotakeyourownbloodwhenyou'reyoung,achild,storeit,andtakethestemcellsfromthebloodandactuallymultiplythem.Nowyoucanmultiplythestemcellsoutsideyourbody.

Dave: Youwoulddobloodstemcellsorfatstemcells?

Naveen: Whatdoyoumean?

Dave: I'vehadmystemcellstakenoutofmyfat.

Naveen: No,butyouwoulddofromtheblood.

Dave: Interesting.Blooddoesn'thavetonsofstemcellsinit.

Naveen: Theplasma.

Dave: Theplatelet,plasmakindofstuff.Okay,cool.

Naveen: Mypointisyou'reabletoinfacttakethestemcellsfromyourfatfromyourskinandabletogrowthem.

Dave: I'vedonethat.Ihavemybanked.Ihave25dosesbanked.

Naveen: Morethanjustbank.I'msayingyoucanactuallymultiplythem.

Dave: Yeah,wetookonedoseandgrewitto25.

Naveen: Youcanamplifythemandre-injectyourstemcellseverynowandthen.

Dave: Idoiteverysixmonths.

Naveen: Thereyougo.Thatactuallywillkeepyourbodyhealthyandcontinuouslyrepaired.


Dave: You'renotdoingthisyet?

Naveen: I'mnotdoingityet,butI'mstilllookingyoung.

Dave: Youare,butyoushouldstorethemnowbecausetheydoage.I'vegotahookupforyouinSeattleifyouwant.It'sabouta20minutedrivefromourofficeswherewecanjustmakeithappen.

Naveen: Imightjustdothat.

Dave: Evenifyoudon'thavethemre-injected,justtogetthemharvestedandstored.Whenyou're90,youwant50to70yearoldstemcells,not90yearoldstemcells.

Naveen: Thatiscorrect.

Dave: Youowethattoyourself.Thatandyourextratwohoursofsleepmightbeagood[crosstalk01:17:09].

Naveen: Thereyougo.Thatrarity.

Dave: Awesome.Naveen,it'sbeenafantasticconversation.WetalkedaboutMoonExpress,wetalkedaboutViome.Wetalkedaboutjustyourbackgroundasanentrepreneur,howmuchsleepyouget.Ifsomeonecametoyoutomorrowandtheysaid,"Look,IwanttoperformbetterateverythingIdoinmylife,whatarethethreemostimportantpiecesofadviceyouhaveforme,"whatwouldyouhavetoofferthem?

Naveen: Firstofallwouldbetostartdreamingbig.Reallystarttothinkaboutwhatarethebiggestproblems.Don'tbeafraidthatIknownothingaboutit.Ifyoulookatthemostsuccessfulentrepreneurs,theyarenottheexpertsintheirfield.Theyallstartedbecausetheysawabigproblem.Whenyouseeabigproblem,youessentiallystarttotakeasmall,smallslice,thenstartexecutingonthem.Thethingthatyoushouldbedoingisthatwhenyoumeetasuccessfulperson,tostartfollowingtheirhabits,whichisoneofthebadthingsIhearconstantly.

Dave: Ilovethis.

Naveen: Peoplesay,"Sevenhabitsofsuccessfulpeople."Actuallyitmakesnodifference.Followingpeopleshabitisnotwhatyouwant.Followingthepartprocessiswhatyouwant.Howtheythinkabouttheproblem,howtheythinkaboutlife,howtheythinkaboutwhatisgoingon.Followtheirpartprocess,don'tfollowtheirhabits.Yes,loveTonyRobbins,lovehim,butjustbecausehegoesoutandtakesabatheverydaydoesn'tmeanifyoutakeanicebathyou'regoingtobecomeTonyRobbins.

Dave: Yeah,Tony'saspecialguywithouttheicebath.

Naveen: Exactlymypoint.He'sjustaspecialguy.


Dave: Itworksforhim.

Naveen: Ifhedidn'ttakeanicebath,hewouldbegreatTonyRobbinswithouttheicebath.

Dave: Ihearyou.Idoallsortsofweirdbiohackingstuffthatmakesadifferenceforme,butmaybesomeonewantstotryit,I'maprofessionalguineapig.Ihearyouthere.OneofthereasonsIdon'tdisclosemyentirelistofsupplements,Idon'twantpeopledoingwhatIdo.I'maguywithautoimmuneissueswhousedtobeobesewho's44anddoesallsortsofweirdstuff.Godforbidthatyoucopyme.Dowhat'srightforyou.That'swhyItalkaboutwhatsomethingsdo.Thankyouforsayingthat.You'retheonlyguestin355guestswhoseeversaidthat.

Naveen: Thankyou.

Dave: Ilovethatanswer.Thatwasone.Learnhowtothink,nothabits.

Naveen: Numbertwowouldbedreamingbigandnotbeafraidtofail.Thenumberthreewouldbeconstantlystayintellectuallycurious.Thedayyoustopdreaming,stopbeingintellectuallycurious,youhaveactuallydiedatthattime.You'vebecomeazombie.Tome,remainingintellectuallycuriousisoneofthemostimportantthingsyoudo.Ithinkevenpeopletalkaboutplayinggolf.Ifyouhavesomuchtimeinyourlifethatyoucanspendeighthoursonagolfcourse,Ithinkyoushouldgivesomebody,saying,"Hey,youhavearighttoshootmethatmylifeissuchawastethatIcanspendeighthoursofmylifeonagolfcourse.Mylifeisnotworthlivinganymore."

Dave: Igottoconfess.Iknowsomeofthegolfersarehorrifiedrightnow.WhenIgraduatedfromWharton,abunchofmyfriendsandIwerelike,"Weshouldlearntogolf.That'swhatsuccessfulpeopledo."Allofusandwe'reinPaloAlto,wegotothegolfcourseandwetakesixweeksofgolflessonsonaSaturdaymorning.AttheendofsixweeksIthinknineoutof10ofuslookedaround,we'relike,"Thistakesincredibleamountsoftime.Screwthisnoise,"andweneverwentback.Theotheronesarelike,"Thisisgoodsunshine."Idon'tknowwhytheywent.I'mwithyouthere.

Naveen: Mypointisthey'rereallyfocusedonwhatyoucareabout.Findsomethingthatactuallymovestheneedle.Tome,peopletalkabouthavingapassion,talkabout,"IwanttodowhatI'mpassionateabout."Myfeelingisnotactuallyaboutthingsthatyouarepassionateabout.It'ssomethingyouneedtobeobsessedabout.Itissomethingthatyoucan'tsleepbecauseyoujustareobsessedaboutwhatisgoingon.Thattome,andpeoplesay"HowdoIeverfindwhatmypassionis?"IthinkwhatIfoundisthebestwaytofindwhatyourtruepassionis,imagineifyouhaveeverythingthatyouwantinlife,youhave$1billion,youhavewonderfulfamily,youhaveeverythingthatyoualwayswanted.Whatisitthatyouwoulddothen?

Ifyoudothatnow,youwouldgeteverythingthatyouwant.Thatmeansyourtruepassionissomethingyou'regoingtodowhenyouhaveeverythinginyourlife.Thatisyourtruepassion.Ifyoudothat,youwillgeteverythingyouwant.Makingmoneyisnevershouldbethegoal.Makingmoneyisthebyproductofdoingthingsthatyou


actuallycareabout.Makingmoneyislikehavinganorgasm.Ifyoufocusonit,you'renevergoingtogetit.Ifyouenjoytheprocess,youwillgetthat.That'smypointisifyoufocusonmakingmoney,youwillnevermakeit.Ifyoufocusonsolvingaproblem,you'llmakemoneyasabyproduct.

Dave: Igottodoubledownonthatone.IwasextremelyfocusedonmakingmoneyuntilIwasabout30,butitwaslikethat'sallthatmatters.

Naveen: Bytheway,younevermadeit.

Dave: Youcan'tkeepit,andyou'remiserableallthetime.It'sahorriblelife.It'sabsolutelyjustasshittyaslifecouldeverbe.I'mhappyyouofferedthattolistenersaswellbecauseit'strue.It'sthemeaningandtheexperiencesthatmatter.

Naveen: OnceyoustartedBulletproofandyoustarteddoingthingsthatyoucaredabout...

Dave: It'seasier.

Naveen: ...guesswhat,nowyouaremakingmoneythateventhoughyou'vebeenwanting,youdidn'tfocusonit.

Dave: Itwasn'twhenIstartedthecompany.Ialreadyhadasalaryandstockoptionsandstuff.

Naveen: Thereyougo.

Dave: Itwastheretodosomethinggood.Ifpeopletooknothingelseawayfromthiswholething,thatonepieceofadvice,focusonvaluecreationnotonmoney,themoneyhappensevenifitdoesn'tfeellikeit'sgoingto.

Naveen: That'sright.Onceyoubecomesuccessfulanywayit'snotaboutlivingalifeofsuccess,it'slivingalifeofsignificanceiswhatmatters.OtherthingthatIwouldsayprobablyatleastIalwaysfollowandIprobablyshouldoffertoeveryoneelseissurroundyourselfwithpeoplethatarepositive.Walkawayfromanyonewholaughsatyourambition.Walkawayfrompeoplewhoarenegative.Youdon'twantanegativeenergyaroundyou.

Dave: It'sokaytofireyourfriendsifthey'renotdoingit.

Naveen: That'sright.Theminuteyoufindpeoplewhoarenegative,whetherthey'reyouremployeesornot,soItelleverysinglepersonwhoworkswithmeinmycompany,mysimpleadviceisyourtotalcontributiontothiscompanyisyourproductivitytimesyourattitude.Ifyourattitudeisnegative,Idon'treallycarehowproductiveyouare,you'reanegativecontributiontothecompany.You'vegottogo.

Dave: It'saveryhealthywaytokeepyourcultureclean.I'mveryfortunateatBulletproofbecauseofourmissionIthinkweattractthepositivepeople.Allittakesisacoupleofpeoplewithabadattitudeanditspreads.


Naveen: Badapple,rottenapples.Ithinkthatrightthingasanentrepreneur,whichreallyistocleanthatculture.That'sasubtledifferencebetweenacultleaderandanentrepreneur.Acultleaderwantstokeeptheloyaltyofpeopletothemselves,andagreatentrepreneurtakestheloyaltyandmakesitthecauseofthecompany.Thatactuallysurvivesandthrivesbeyondtheentrepreneur.Peoplewhoareworking,theydon'tworkforDave,theyworkforBulletproof.ThecauseofBulletproofistheircause.TheircauseisnottomakeDaveAsprey.

Dave: Thankgoodness.

Naveen: That'swhatIlove.

Dave: Itmakesmekindofmadreally.Whatdoyouwant?What'sbestforeveryone,that'swhatIwant.MaybeIdon'tevenknow.

Naveen: ThethingthatIloveaboutyouDaveiswehavespentsomuchtimetogether,isthatyourenergy,yourpassionandtheproductthatyoubuildtheyactuallywork.You'renotsellingthesnakeoil.Inthisindustry,Ihavetoaddtherearetoomanypeoplewhojustsellsnakeoil.ThethingthatIloveaboutBulletproofiseveryproductissomethingyouhavetested,somethingyouknowscientificallyworks.WhenIbuyBulletproof,IambuyingthecredibilityofDavebecauseIknowDavewouldnotsellitunlessitactuallyworked.Thatisthekindofcredibilitythateveryentrepreneurneedstohavethateverycompanyyoustart,youputyournameonit.Everyoneknowsthatit'smycompanyandifIdosomethingwrong,yougettotaketheblame.

Iknowwhenyouputyournametoit,Iknowthatproductworks.Ihopeallofyourlistenersknowthatitdoesn'tmatterwhatproductyouintroduce,they'rebuyingitbecauseofyouandyourcredibility,yourscienceisreallysomethingthathasreallybuiltwhatBulletproofis.

Dave: Thanksforsayingthat.That'sgreatpraise.Iappreciatethatyoutalkaboutthefactthatyouuseit.That'sreallycoolandI'mgrateful.Aswewindupthisshow,earlierwementionedpeoplewhowanttogetfirstinlifefortrackingtheirdatausingthismonthlymodelthatworksreallywellforme.Insteadofhavingtogetblooddrawn,it'safingerstickhome.Youcandoitallathome.

Naveen: Allathome.

Dave: Withoutanyannoyingness.

Naveen: Bytheway,there'snoshippingintheicecontainer.

Dave: Noneofthat,okay.

Naveen: There'snobodycomingtoyourhousedoingtheintravenousblooddraw.Noneofthatstuff.


Dave: It'scompletelydisruptivetothewayyou'reusedtogettingthisdata.

Naveen: That'sright.

Dave: You'regettingdatathat'sactuallynotavailableinnormallabtests,likeyourmitochondrialfunction.

Naveen: Bytheway,we'renotalab,sowe'reactuallyaservice.It'sa[inaudible01:26:42]service.YouhaveaniPhoneappandanandroidapp,andyou'reabletoessentiallyseewhatisgoingon.You'llbeabletounderstandwhatyouneedtobedoing,andit'syourconstantcompanion.

Dave: Itprovidesgoodadviceanditgivesyouthedata.I'mreallyexcitedaboutthis.That'sViome,V-I-O-M-E,dotcom,andthenthecodeisBulletproof,whichwillputyouatthefrontoftheline.

Naveen: That'sright.

Dave: Whichisprettycool.Guys,rememberthat,andifthat'sinteresttoyou,pleasedoit.Ifit'sinterestingtosomeoneelse,sendittothem.Ifit'snotinterestingatall,don'tgothere.Justknowthatwearedisruptingwhatwasoncesomethingthattookadoctor'snoteandsomestickingveinsinyourarmandrefrigeratedbloodshipping.Iusedtorunalabtestingcompanyabout10yearsago.It'shorriblebusiness.You'redisruptingallthatjustsopeoplehavecleandataabouthowthingsarechangingovertime,andthat'saholygrailforme.

Naveen: Actuallymorethanthat.Youcouldn'tgetthismuchdata10yearsago.Itdidn'tmatterwhatyoudid.

Dave: Itried.Icouldnotgetit.

Naveen: That'sthepoint.Todaywehaveaccesstokindofinformationthatwasneveravailablebefore,andthatkindofdisruptioniswhatwillchangewhoweare,howweliveandmakesicknessoptional.

Dave: Exactly.Naveen,thanksforbeingonBulletproof.

Naveen: ThankyouDave.Whatapleasure.

Dave: Itwasgreatfun.

Naveen: Thankyou.

Speaker 1: Bulletproof Radio, a state of high...

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