Slick Tabash
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Transcript of Slick Tabash
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Existe Dios?Existe Dios?
Debate: Matt SlickDebate: Matt Slickvsvs
EddieEddie TabashTabash
www.carm.orgwww.carm.org
Copyright Matt SlickCopyright Matt Slick
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Dos Tipos de InfinitosDos Tipos de Infinitos
Infinito Real
e
Infinito Potencial
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Infinito RealInfinito Real Un
Inf
in
ito Real es un
a totalidad atemporal quen
oaumenta ni disminuye con el numero de miembros quecontiene.
Ejemplo: El numero de puntos de una linea es un infinito real; noexiste unnumero exacto, numero finito.
Problemas con los infinitos reales:
Consideremos una larga linea de de dominos en el universo. Sisacamos la mitad de esa linea, aun tendremos unnumero infinito.Pero, la mitad del infinito original contiene el mismo numero dedominos que el infinito original. Esto significara que la mitad de latotalidad es igual a la totalidad. Esto no puede ser.
Un reloj infinitamente viejo. El horario hace un recorido del reloj 2veces al dia. El minutero 24 veces por dia. Pero, una cantidadinfinita de tiempo resulta en que tanto el munitero como el horariohan tenido unnumero de rotaciones iguales aunque el minuterotiene 12 veces mas rotaciones que el horario. Esto no puede ser.
Por lo tanto los infinitos reales no existen.
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Cada adicion resulta en un set finito mas largo. Un
infinito potencial se compone de una cantidad finita
que incrementa su numero en el tiempo al agregar
miembros. Ejemplo: Al dividir una linea a la mitad, y luego a la mitad,
y a la mitad nuevamente resulta en una cantidad finita de
divisiones. Es posible continuar haciendo esto, aunque en
cada division
, un
n
umerofin
ito de division
es aun
exista.
Infinito PotencialInfinito Potencial
1/2 1/2 1/2 1/2
1/2
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No es posible atravesar un infinitoNo es posible atravesar un infinito
real, 1real, 1 Imaginemos una linea de dominos infinita y
atemporal.
Al atravesar por la linea de dominos, para llegar a
cualquier domino en particular es necesarioatravesar unnumero infinito de ellos para llegar a
cualquier domino.
Pero unnumero infinito de dominos no
pueden ser atravesados, de otra forma
no sera infinito. Es asi, que no podemos
tener un infinito real de dominos.
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No podemos cruzar un Infinito Real, 2No podemos cruzar un Infinito Real, 2
De igual manera, si cada domino representa un segundoy cada domino cayese uno tras otro, representando
sucesivos momentos en el tiempo, la linea de dominos
no podra ser infinita desde el pasado porque
No podra haber existido un primer domino
cayendo. Si no hay primero, no puede haber
segundo, ni tercero, ni los siguientes.
Por lo tan
to, un
inf
in
ito real(unnumero infinito y atemporal)
de sucesivos eventos en el
pasado es imposible.
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Summary Regarding ActualSummary Regarding Actual
InfiniteInfinite An actual infinite ofsuccessive events in the past is
logically impossible because
It would require traversing an infinite number
ofevents which cannot be done.
There would be no first event. Ifthere is
no first event, there cannot be a second, or a third,
and no following series ofevents.
Therefore, there must be a
beginning ofevents.
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Cosmological Argument for GodsCosmological Argument for Gods
ExistenceExistence The universe exists
There are only two optionsavailable to account for theUniverse: It had a beginning or
it did not have a beginning. Ifthe universe had no beginning,
then it is either Eternally Static orEternally non-Static (Oscillating)
Ifthe universe had a beginning, then something brought
the universe into existence. There are only two options available to account for the
cause ofthe existence ofthe universe
First Option: Impersonal Cause ofthe universe
Second Option: Personal Cause ofthe universe.
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Only two options available toOnly two options available to
account for the Universeaccount for the Universe
The Universe had a beginning
or it had no beginning.
Beginning and no beginning is
an antonymic pair.
Antonyms are opposites. Beginning and no
beginning means there is no third option.Therefore, it is not a false dichotomy since no other
options are possible.
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If the universe had no beginning,If the universe had no beginning,
then it is either Eternally Static orthen it is either Eternally Static or
Eternally nonEternally non--Static (Oscillating)Static (Oscillating)
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Eternally Static Universe: TheEternally Static Universe: The
universe has always existed.universe has always existed. This does not agree with Cosmic Microwave
Background Radiation (CMBR) which shows the
universe had a beginning.
The universe always existing would be impossible
since it would mean the universe had an infinite
number ofsuccessive events (atoms moving, stars
forming, etc.), before we got to now. But this is
impossible as we have seen above.
Conclusion: The universe is not infinitely old. It had a
beginning.
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Eternally non Static,Eternally non Static,
or Oscillating Universeor Oscillating Universe The universe forms, collapses, forms, collapses, forever
This does not agree with the 2nd law ofthermodynamics. The
universe, as a whole, is a closed system. There is no known
mechanism for a 100% efficient exchange ofenergy information and reformation.
An eternally oscillating universe would require an infinite
number ofoscillations but this is impossible since it would
mean
the un
iverse had an
inf
in
iten
umber of
successiveevents.
Conclusion: The universe had a beginning and could not have
been eternally oscillating.
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If the universe had a beginning,If the universe had a beginning,
then something brought thethen something brought the
universe into existence.universe into existence.
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There are only two options toThere are only two options to
account for the cause of theaccount for the cause of theexistence of the universe:existence of the universe:
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FirstFirstOptionOption: ImpersonalImpersonal CauseCause ofof
thethe UniverseUniverse
Only two possible options
First Option: The universe brought itselfinto existence
Second Option: The universe was caused
to exist
(Either it caused itself to exist or was caused to exist)
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Impersonal Cause, First option: theImpersonal Cause, First option: the
universe brought itself into existenceuniverse brought itself into existence
This is not possible because in order for an
action to occur, something has to cause the
action
. A cause is itself
an
action
. An
action
results from something that exists prior to it.
But ifsomething has no existence (nothing),
then it has no prior existence, no properties, no
abilities, and cannot perform any actions.Therefore, nothing comes from
nothing and the universe did not
bring itself into existence.
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Impersonal Cause, Second option:Impersonal Cause, Second option:
The universe was caused to exist byThe universe was caused to exist by
an impersonal means.an impersonal means. Whatever caused the universe to exist,
existed prior to the universe.
This existence was ontologically prior (essence/nature),not temporally prior to the universe.
In Mr. Tabashs debate with Phil Fernandez he said at 54:44, We
cant even speak of a cause [of the universe] because there was no time
and space for sequential causation to play out before the big bangoccurred.
Two things to note here:
Mr. Tabash denies temporality before the universe.
Mr. Tabash, by his own admission, cannot offer us a cause of
the universe.
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An impersonal, ontologically priorAn impersonal, ontologically prior
cause either existed in a timeless andcause either existed in a timeless and
changeless state or it did not.changeless state or it did not.
Quentin Smith (an atheist), Professor ofPhilosophy who
is listed under Suggested Links on Eddie Tabashs site
(tabash.com) said, that the cause ofspacetime existstimelessly.
Timeless, Changeless state: An impersonal, ontologically
prior cause existing in a timeless and changeless state
cannot perform an action since it cant suddenly decideto do anything. It just is.
Conclusion: an impersonal, timeless, ontological prior
cause could not have brought the universe into existence.
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NonNon--Timeless, Changing StateTimeless, Changing State
Ifthe impersonal, ontologically prior cause existed innon-
timeless and non-changeless state then whatever caused it to
change is a prior cause which would be a cause external to
itself.
We then must ask what caused that prior cause, and the causebefore that, etc. This would mean that no matter how far back
we go, we would never find the first event. With no first event,
there can be no second, no third, etc., and nothing would ever
happen.
Remember: an infinite regression ofprior causes would mean
there is an infinite regression ofuncaused causes which would
have to be traversed before we found the cause ofthe
universe, but this is impossible since an actual infinite of
successive events in the past is logically impossible.
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Conclusion regarding anConclusion regarding an
Impersonal Cause of the UniverseImpersonal Cause of the Universe Neither the Impersonal-Timeless-Changeless-State or
the Impersonal-Non-Timeless-Non-Changeless-State
can account for the beginning ofthe universe.
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Two options
When we have only two options to account for
something (impersonal and personal) and one of
them is negated, then by default the other is
validated. Since the Impersonal Cause cannotaccount for the beginning ofthe universe, the
only option left is the Personal Cause.
That Personal Cause is God.
IMPERSONAL
CAUSE
PERSONAL
CAUSE
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Second Option:
Personal Cause ofthe Universe
There are only two options to account for a Personal
Being to Act to create the universe: External and
Internal Cause.
An External Cause would only brings the issue ofcausation back to its prior cause, and its cause, for
infinity, which cannot happen since we cannot have an
infinite regression ofcauses.
AnInternal Cause in a Personal Being would be self
determined, a Decision to Act.
Therefore, the Personal Cause ofthe Universe made a
decision to act and created the universe.