Seite 1 Karfunkel 120 online

K.: First of all thank you somuch for giving us this inter-view! Last year, you andmany thousand people allover the world celebratedthe 50th anniversary ofOBOD. Can you just give usa short overview of its histo-ry?PCG: The Order was foundedin 1964 by a poet and histori-an, Ross Nichols, who was theChairman, known as the‘Maenarch’, of the AncientDruid Order, which was foun-ded in the early years of thetwentieth century. He, andsome colleagues, such as VeraChapman, the founder of theTolkien Society, wanted tostart a new group that celebra-ted all eight seasonal festivals,and that worked with threeschools of teaching: the Bards,

Ovates and Druids. This newOrder of Bards Ovates & Dru-ids flourished for just elevenyears, until Ross Nichols diedin 1975. His successor, JohnBrant, decided to close theOrder ‘in the apparent world’and died soon after. In 1988 Iwas asked to revive the Orderand to put its teachings intothe form of a distance-lear-ning course. This resulted in arapid increase in membership,which over the last 26 yearshas grown to some 17,000members who receive the trai-ning materials in seven lang-uages. There are 150 groups(known as ‘seed groups andgroves’) around the world andthe course is published in En-glish, German, French, Dutch,Portuguese, Italian and Czech.Members produce magazines

in several languages and amonthly podcast, called ‘Dru-idcast’, which is soon to reachits 100th episode. We also holdcamps and big gatherings invarious places – the next oneis our international camp at acastle in Germany, followed byour annual summer gatheringin Glastonbury.

K.: As Ronald Hutton in hisspeech on the gathering inGlastonbury last year said,OBOD is a very importantpart of modern spirituality.What are the key features ofthe druidic path?PCG: Its key features are a re-verence for the Earth and Na-ture and a love of myth andstory. Druids believe that allnatural phenomena, from sto-nes to trees and stars, have

Philip Carr-Gomm, der seit mehrals 30 Jahren den Order of Bards,Ovates an Druids (OBOD) leitet,ist ganz eindeutig der Ökumeni-ker unter den Druiden. Fest in sei-ner eigenen Tradition verwurzelt,hat der gelernte Psychologe einTalent für den Blick über denGartenzaun zu den wiccanischenoder christlichen Nachbarn undlädt dazu ein, das Verbindende ge-meinsam zu erleben. Für KarfunkelNr. 120 haben wir mit ihm gespro-chen. In der Printausgabe gibt esdie deutsche Übersetzung desInterviews, hier online nun dasOriginal.

Karfunkel 120 online Seite 2

much to teach us, and that oneof our most important tasks ashuman beings is to get back intouch with the rhythms of Na-ture, to listen to Her, and toprotect Her. Along the path wework with meditation, story-telling, inner journeys, con-templation and stillness, ritualand poetry to deepen and de-velop ourselves and to awakethe ‘Inner Sage’ and the ‘innerShaman’ within us – at thesame time opening to our fullcreative potential. We studytree lore and stone lore, ani-mal and plant lore, and learnhow to perform rituals at eightspecial times during the year:the solstices and equinoxes,and the Celtic fire-festivals.

K.: 50 years OBOD – whatdid you achieve, what are themost important topics toconcentrate on in the future?PCG: Over the last 50 years,and particularly over the last26 years, we have engagedprimarily in three tasks: first-ly, we have developed a verycomprehensive training pro-gramme with much teachingmaterial and a network of overfifty mentors worldwide thathelps members develop them-selves spiritually and psycho-logically; secondly we haveencouraged research intoDruid history so that our un-derstanding of our tradition isnow as strong and clear as itever has been; and thirdly wehave explored and publishedmaterial on star, plant, treeand animal lore related toDruidry. It feels as if now thatwe have broadly accomplishedthese goals we can turn to de-veloping ways of service. Aspirituality, after all, is con-cerned with two tasks: develo-ping the Self, becoming Whole,gaining Enlightenment, or ho-

wever you want to term this,and being of use to the world –being of service. I think we’vedone well with the first aim,and now we can focus more onthe second. We already havetree-planting and ecologicalresponsibility programmes inplace, but what we are wor-king on now is developingtraining programmes in the artof celebrancy – helping mem-bers develop the skills to offi-ciate at funerals, weddings,namings and other rites ofpassage. I am sure there willbe other ways we can encou-rage acts of service, but at themoment this is the focus for us.

K.: You are working intense-ly to offer Druidry as abridge in the interfaith dia-logue. How does this activitydevelop and why are you en-gaging in this topic?PCG: You know the way todaypeople are having ‘seed exchan-ge’ meetings? They meet up andswap seeds – someti-mes just ordinary seedsof plants or vegetables,sometimes rare seeds.That way our gardenscan grow and we canmaintain diversity andfrom that diversitycomes resilience topests, and to the vaga-ries of the weather. Isee interfaith work in asimilar way. If we live,spiritually and cultural-ly, in a mono-culture –only mixing with fellowtravellers, only readingabout one’s own tradi-tion, we lose our resi-lience, and can drift to-wards a kind of funda-mentalism. By meetingand exchanging withpeople who are follo-wing different paths, we

swap ideas and experiences andwe ‘grow’ our spiritual gardenmore effectively. We discoverthat we can enrich our own path.Sometimes we cannot transplantcertain ideas or viewpoints, butin other instances we find we canbring more colour into our worldand perhaps help others to co-lour theirs too.

K.: In the annual review of2014, you wrote that you willlead attention to the topics ofliturgy as there are naming,handfasting and rites oftransmission in the near fu-ture. What can Christianslearn from the rites of thedruidic tradition?PCG: In Druid rites we drawas much as we can on the ima-gery and the powers of Nature,and we try as well to avoid asmuch theology and ideas ofdoctrine and dogma as possi-ble. Perhaps this can be ofsome help. I know one Christi-an group, the Forest Church,

Seite 3 Karfunkel 120 online

which is a growing movementof Christians who worship outof doors in natural settings,has been inspired by Druid ri-tual. Perhaps there are others.

K.: Have you learned some-thing from the Christian li-turgy?PCG: In my experience, thereis a tremendous beauty andpower in much of Christian li-turgy, but I also find much of ithampered by an old-fashionedfeeling – as if a church serviceis a sort of ‘historical re-enactment’ that belongs to adifferent age. Nevertheless, thecenturies of tradition and thebeauty of the language, music,art and symbolism withinChristianity I find very uplif-ting, and it would be wonder-ful if that level of aesthetic so-phistication could be presentwithin Druid ritual too.

K.: What relevance hasmusic in the druidic ritualsand meetingsPCG: When musicians are pre-sent at rituals and meetings italways enrichesthe experience.They representthe Bardic streamof Druidry, andstream is a goodword to use be-cause they seemto bring a currentof life-givingenergy that flowsinto the event,uplifting and in-spiring us. Iwould like to en-courage more singing and moremusic-making in our meetings.

K.: You are intensely study-ing religious sources andtexts; I remember for exam-ple your quotes of the

churchfather Jerome or ofPope John Paul II, concer-ning the body, in your book‘A brief history of Naked-ness’ – what sort of reactiondid you get from those theo-logians who should knowthose texts as well?PCG: A number of church pe-ople wrote very favourable re-views, including the Dean ofBrentwood Cathedral, andChristian priest and authorMark Townsend. It was evenbriefly mentioned in theChurch of England newspaperThe Church Times.

K.: Certainly you have heardabout the new theory fromJulian Spalding, that the me-galiths of Stonehenge wouldnot have been used for cere-monies at ground level, butwould instead have supporteda circular platform on whichceremonies were performedto the rotating heavens. Whatdo you think about that?PCG: I like it because it isprovocative and new, but Idon’t think it is likely as an ex-

planation. Stone circles arefound all over the world, andnone of them has ever been as-sociated with a platform rai-sed above it. But who knows?It is worth considering everytheory.

In your interview with Damhfor Druicast you mentionedyour new book. What areyou writing about?PCG: I am writing a storybased on the real lives of two fi-gures who lived in Brittany du-ring World War Two: the clair-voyant Geneviève Zaepffel andAbbé Henri Gillard, who built achurch dedicated to the HolyGrail just by the forest of Bro-cèliande. I was told that Gene-viève took a German officer asa lover during the war, and thestory is about their affair andabout the strange way in whichthe Abbé’s project was mirroredby Himmler as he built a grailtemple in the SS castle at We-welsburg. Its provisional title is‘In the Shadow of the Grail’,and one of my aims with thebook is to explore the relation -ship between idealism, crueltyand fanaticism – to ask ques-tions about human nature anddestiny.

Thanks for your time!Literaturhinweis:Philipp Carr-Gomm: Der Weg des DruidenPhilipp Carr-Gomm lebt seit seinem 15. Lebens-

jahr in der druidischen Tradition undist außerdem als Psychotherapeut aus-gebildet. Der Weg des Druiden ist einesensitive Form der Reisebeschreibung,die neben der Vielschichtigkeit der äu-ßeren Landschaft auch die Schönheitender inneren Seelenlandschaft be-schreibt. Für Philipp Carr-Gomm istdies kein Gegensatz, sondern vielmehrAusdruck einer von jeher bestehendentiefen Verbindung zwischen äußeremund innerem Sein. Sein Blick auf dieLandschaft des südlichen Englandstärkt die Aufmerksamkeit für die kelti-sche und druidische Tradition, die inheiligen Hainen, Hügeln und den Ab-bildern von Riesen oder Göttinnen ihreSpuren hinterlassen hat. Berührendspirituell sind auch die druidischen Ri-tuale zum Tod von Lucie, der Feier desWiedereintritts von Sophie in die Weltund der Verbindung von Jane und Mi-chael, die Einblick in die menschen-freundlichen Rituale der druidischenTradition geben und eine gute Grund-lage für den interreligiösen Dialog mitLiturgen anderer Glaubensrichtungenbilden. Spannende Einsichten vermit-teln die Vergleiche Carr-Gomms zwi-

schen den Methoden der Psychotherapie und derDruidischen Weltsicht, ihre Übereinstimmungen,aber auch ihre Unterschiede. Wer sich für die dru-idische Tradition interessiert und die Landschaftdes südlichen England liebt, sollte sich diesesBuch nicht entgehen lassen.Arun Verlag, Uhlstädt-Kirchhasel 2011, 194 S.,ISBN 978-3-86663-063-5, 19,95 €.

Barbara Stühlmeyer

Zum Weitersurfen:www.philipcarr-gomm.com; www.druidry.org

Fotos

(3):

Phili

p Car

r-Gom

m