Q2 2013 Earnings Call 26 Oct’12 - AceAnalyser Call/100096_20121026.pdf · Dabur India Q2 2013...
Transcript of Q2 2013 Earnings Call 26 Oct’12 - AceAnalyser Call/100096_20121026.pdf · Dabur India Q2 2013...
Dabur India Q2 2013 Earnings Call 26 Oct’12
Operator Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Dabur India Limited Q2 FY 2013 Earnings Conference Call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen‐only mode. There will be an opportunity for you to ask questions at the end of today's presentation. Please note that this conference is being recorded. At this time, I would like to hand the conference over to Mrs. Gagan Ahluwalia. Thank you and over to you ma'am.
Gagan Ahluwalia, General Manager, Corporate Affairs Thank you, Marina. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of management of Dabur India Limited, I welcome you all to the conference call pertaining to results for the quarter and half year ended 30 September, 2012.
Present here with me are Mr. Sunil Duggal, CEO of Dabur India Limited; Mr. Ashok Jain, Senior General Manager of Finance and Company Secretary, Mr. Saibal Sengupta, Senior General Manager of Finance.
At the outset, we will have a brief overview of the company's performance from Mr. Duggal, followed by a question‐and‐answer session.
I hand over now to Mr. Duggal. Thank you, Gagan. Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen. I welcome you to the Dabur India conference call pertaining to the results for the quarter and half year ended September 30th.
During the quarter, Dabur consolidated sales increased by 20.6% to 1,522.6 crores and profit after tax by 16.4% to 202.4 crores. Domestic consumer business reported growth of 15.3%, driven by a mix of volume and price increases. Volume growth in the business was around 9%.
Most categories performed well with health supplements, OTC and epidural shampoos, skin and home care going ahead of others. Health supplements recorded growth of 15.7% during the quarter with honey in particularly performing well across channels and regions.
Chyawanprash also witnessed double‐digit growth during the quarter, although its major sales happened during the winter season. The OTC and Ethical portfolio registered growth of 22.6% during the quarter. Brands such as Lal Tail, Honitus and the ethical portfolio reported strong double digit growth.
The healthcare business is witnessing good growth pursuant to the distribution enhancement initiative, which were implemented a few quarters ago.
Hair care portfolio grew by 13.2% with shampoos growing at 40.2. Perfumed hair oil posted growth of 16.3%. Oral care listed growth of 6.9% during the quarter the premium offerings that is Red toothpaste and Meswak reported double digit growth; however sales of the economy toothpaste segment economy segment toothpaste, Babool were impacted by price rationalization initiatives, which were essential to enhance the margins. Red Tooth toothpowder had a small decline during the quarter.
Skin care category grew at a robust 24.8% during the quarter. The Fem portfolio grew by 27.7 and Gulabari also performed well.
Digestives reported growth of 11.9% with strong momentum in Pudin Hara back by media and packaging initiatives. Homecare continued on the strong growth trajectory growing by 23% during the quarter with Odomos and Sanifresh as the key growth drivers.
Food grew by 18.1% during the quarter, Real Fruit Juices continued to perform well driven by strong market growth and market share gains. During the quarter new variance and flavors were launched in the beverage portfolio. Dabur's International business witnessed healthy sales, growth of 24.8% during the quarter.
Nigeria and Nepal reported strong growth with categories such as hair oils and toothpaste doing well. The business continued to invest strongly behind AMC and new product initiatives.
The Namaste business is undergoing some changes with re‐launch of the brand in the U.S. This led to some showdown in U.S. sales, overall we are confident to focus and growing the business aggressively in the overseas market particularly efforts are being made to put the infrastructure in place in order to capture the opportunities that exist. This will include distribution and enhancement initiatives localized supply chain, investment in A&P and putting in place local resources.
On the profitability side, Dabur saw growth of 12.7% in EBITDA. Material cost witness some easing during the quarter due to which gross margins saw an improvement. However, it continues to be a worry as input cost pressures persist due to rising agri prices and adverse currency movement.
During the quarter, we invested strongly behind our brands with our total sales ratio increasing to 11.9 versus 10.1% in the second quarter of last year. Consequently profit after tax supported growth of 16.3%. Our distribution enhancement initiatives particularly in rural India go through and have translated into higher and more profitable sales.
Going ahead we would continue to drive revenue growth on the back of distribution footprint enhancement initiatives, focus media and promotional activities, new product initiatives and market expansion activities.
Questions And Answers
Operator Thank you very much sir. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question‐and‐ answer session. [Operator Instructions]
The first question is from Abneesh Roy from Edelweiss. Please go ahead.
Abneesh Roy Sir, thanks for the opportunity. The first question is on the skin creams. We have done well with the 24% growth. So if you could give us more color...
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer No. Skincare, okay.
Abneesh Roy Yeah. Skincare, 24% growth; so is it because of market share gains or is it because of the new innovations? And if you could give us more color on the Uveda; you have said that you plan to launch some variants out here. So, some color on that?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Yeah. I think we have gained a substantial market share in the bleach segment. So that has been instrumental in driving growth of bleach. It's been actually not too much in terms of new innovations on the Gulabari brand but FEM had witnessed some innovations which have also driven growth. We've launched new initiatives under the gold and the pearl range.
Overall it's been the bleach portfolio which has driven growth which is also a very high margin. So that's something which works for us. Gulabari is mostly a winter centric products being in the cold creams and moisturizer so while it's done well in the first two quarter, I think the real test for Gulabari is in the third and fourth. But we are hopeful that we'll be able to do well, where there is a lot of activity in terms of new initiatives and innovations in the Gulabari brand.
To reply to the third part which is Uveda, we are still not prepared to mark for this brand, we are still intimating, we don't believe the time is right to really put a lot of money behind it. Perhaps sometimes early next year, we will take a call and then try some major initiatives behind Uveda.
Abneesh Roy Sir, any distribution that gains in skin care because distribution has been expanded in the rural side
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Abneesh Roy Sir my next question is on your overall volume growth if you see there is tapering off from double digit to 9% in the domestic business. So, between rural and urban, how is the relative growth and obviously beverages have seen some slowdown from the exclusive growth.
So if you can give us overall growth why some slowdown happened between rural and urban relative growth how is it.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Certainly the core portfolio growth is probably not very different from what you saw in the first quarter if you take over urban, rural, HPC and HCE that's ‐‐ that growth remains good.
Definitely the food growth has come up considerably from the first quarter and that's largely on account of seasonal factors. One is of course much higher based. The second is that the festive season, which drives the lot of consumption of juices in the form of gift packs et cetera is now delayed by almost a month as compared to last year so much our sales, which would have normally happened in September which happened actually September last year will now happen in October.
So I won't worry too much about it. I think the foods park would regain momentum. But certainly food and to some extent CSP have contributed to slightly lower growth in the second quarter we saw around 11 in the first 9 in the second.
So it's a bit of come down from the first quarter but nothing serious.
Abneesh Roy Sir my third question is on the hair oil business if you see coconut based you have given the explanation.
So is there any long‐term solution you're looking at. Second sub question to that is Almond Hair Oil now it's three quarters, so how would you judge versus initial expectation in the Almond Hair Oil because the leader is reporting very good growth.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Which is true and we are also I think showing good performance in Almond Hair Oil, it's as per the action standards, so we're pretty satisfied with the way it's it growing. So obviously this whole category of Almond Hair oil is really growing at a very high pace much ahead of any other part of hair oil.
But overall if you take perfumed hair oils we grew at 16.3% which is pretty substantial and I think this remains one of the key elements of our growth. Coconut oil was far more muted because as you know Vatika in an area where coconut the coconut prices are low does tend to flat in terms of top‐line, but in terms of extraordinarily high margins.
So, last year we saw a huge growth in Vatika on the back of high coconut prices, but for much less margins. This year the reverse is happening and that is part of our trend, which we see for many years. So, I think it's a little bit dependent upon the overall coconut, because we don't move prices of Vatika up and down in line with the coconut oil prices. Sir, last question is on Babul if you see that has remained under pressure for some quarters now. In the PPT you have mentioned that some value added variance are planned. So I wanted understand on an overall basis market share how is it, because Unilever has also said that double‐digit growth? And coming back to Babul, do you want to now address the price issue there by doing the value‐added variants?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer I think the focus on oral care as far as we are concerned has now shifted to profitability. We were driving very good growth over the last few years. But obviously the Babool margins were shifting to a point, where as we found that quite unsustainable.
Secondly, even the Red toothpowder, which earlier was a high margin product has been steady erosion of margins consequent on very high input costs of spices particularly, which have been further aggravated by the weak rupee.
So I think what we are doing here as we are putting investments now behind the higher margin brands, which are doing extraordinarily well Red toothpaste in particular. And we are trying to recreate profitability in Babool and to some extent in Red toothpowder through variant thing and so many other initiatives, which obviously I won't be discussing. But we do believe that we should be able to get Babool back on track by the year end in terms of both growth and margins.
Abneesh Roy Okay sir. Thanks for this and all the best sir.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Thank you.
Operator Thank you. The next question is from Prakash Kapadia from iAlpha Enterprises. Please go ahead.
Prakash Kapadia Thanks for taking my question. Sir, if you could give some insights into the oral care this is the third quarter, where we've seen single‐digit growth.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Yeah.
Prakash Kapadia Given that 50% of India's population has a dental issue in terms of cavity or toothache or gum or a bad breath, isn't it more better to focus on our premium offerings Miswak and Dabur Red rather than the economy segment over the long run?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer This is exactly what we're doing, the problem is that Babool has 50% of our toothpaste business. So it's a big brand.
Prakash Kapadia Right.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer And if it's flat, it brings the whole growth down. Now we can easily grow Babool in double digits, I mean that's something, which we've been doing. But it will be at a very high cost in terms of margins. And if we ignore the brand size, that will drag down overall business margins, not just oral care. And I think in such time that we grow more profitability here to value addition offering more benefit consumer et cetera, et cetera. We do believe that there not we can do in this area otherwise we would have gone at down this path. And if you take that Red Toothpaste, I mean the growth is very high and really that's our flagship toothpaste today.
Prakash Kapadia These two products are really very good and a very huge efficacy it can work wonders.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer No, we are investing very substantially behind these two products, in fact we have pulled out investment from Babool to a very significant extent and moved investments into these two. But having said that we are not going to let the Babool just sort of fade away, no away; I mean it's such a big brand. And we do see a lot of traction, which we can develop. I think we just need to be little bit more creative in terms of offering the value added solutions to customers, and then executing that strategy well on the ground.
I do see revival happening in Babool by the fourth quarter or perhaps latest by the first. We've traveled down this path of erosion in terms of margins and volumes in shampoos et cetera. I think the key thing is just to be creative, innovative, continue investments
and the recycle will correct itself. It's really the Rs. 10 price point, which is a cause of much pain and ultimately this Rs. 10 price points are going to become increasingly unsustainable as and when inflation continues to be in the close to double digits.
Prakash Kapadia Right. And sir, secondly on the health supplement. Given the stress and lifestyle issues especially in urban India and given our leadership, what are we trying to do more to make honey and Chyawanprash more like a habit amongst consumers especially the younger generation because the taste and the perception is still like a medicine. So, as a...
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer The whole proposition of Chyawanprash, we are shifting to immunity, which I believe is the single most important healthcare need in the country today especially amongst kids, and the target audience is definitely kids. So you can see the new campaign, which promises three times more immunity. It's really aiming at the center of this need gap. And now if this campaign works which we believe it will and it's not really directly different from what we've been earlier, but I think it drills down to the immunity benefits in a very hard hitting manner. So you will see the new set of advertisements and communication, which we have developed. I think you will find it's striking home hard especially when you have dengue all kinds of immunity deficient related diseases. So the outlook for Chyawanprash is very bright I think the consumer we have seen does shift to value, we have seen consumers shift back to Lal Tail which is a fairly not a great in the terms of retail, on factory, et cetera, but it's great in terms of efficacy.
So I think because the customer will rediscover value in Chyawanprash vis‐à‐vis the platforms such as malted drinks et cetera. And we should be able to drive long‐term sustainable growth here. We're also innovating as we have seen in terms of flavors, which the mix fruit variant and... So I am very hopeful about Chyawanprash. I completely disagree that it's sort of onset category and the Indian consumers is becoming more like a Western counterparts in terms of behavior, I don't see that happening at all. I mean Red Toothpaste is a classic example, it's not a rural product it's largely a urban product, it's so different from what the main streams toothpaste are and it's the fastest growing toothpaste major stand in the country for so many years.
Prakash Kapadia Right. And sir, if you could share some thoughts given that India has 25 million babies, which are born every year. Is that now a category, which we are increasingly looking at given that CCD and CHD integration is over, we have the distribution in place and who better than Dabur can grow this category? So, are there....
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer So baby care has never been a big area for us. We have got a large brand, a 100 crore kind of brand in the form of Lal Tail, you've got Janam Ghunti, which is a digested product, but we find it little difficult to put new products into market, because it's a huge barrier to overcome, yeah, I mean Johnson of course is there in categories such as baby oil and shampoos.
But we still see even baby oils has been a huge category to drive growth. And we are also looking at other areas in let's say the food space, not so much for infants, but young children, which will be interesting initiatives.
Prakash Kapadia And sir, lastly if you could give some sense on CHD. Where do you see CHD going forward, because I believe in the winter season there is good traction in terms of the health supplements. So are we on track or is CHD still a concern what is the sense we are getting?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer I believe the work is ahead us, so I do see is the viable happening in CHD business. So even the quarter two was minus 17%, it was a significant track on overall particularly in terms of volumes, margins there are obviously little bit lower.
But I do see the works behind us, I think over this year, we should probably get back to flat growth over last year, which is not a bad place to be in considering that we've degrown in the first two quarters.
Prakash Kapadia Right, right. But I won't really bet everything on it, because it's really not under our control that depends upon the internal growth of CHD. But we'll definitely no longer witness this sharp decline which we saw in the first two quarters.
Prakash Kapadia Sure, sure. And sir, it's fair to assume we will see debt reduction going forward as we've seen in this quarter over the next period?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer We are for all practical purposes zero debt, I mean there is a debt lying in the overseas books for this cash line in India.
Prakash Kapadia Right.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer And we haven't swapped the two obvious reasons.
Prakash Kapadia Right.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer So we are a debt free company. What is our net debt today?
Gagan Ahluwalia, General Manager, Corporate Affairs 33 crores.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer 33 crores we're positive. So yes actually we have net cash.
Prakash Kapadia Great sir. Thanks all the best.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Welcome. Thank you. The next question is from Nilesh Shah from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.
Analyst Thank you. Sir in terms of the two new launches of the variant thing strategy and the relaunches, can you share a few quarter details on how they have performed the Amla and what's the initial reaction on 30 plus, et cetera?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer 30 plus just is launched so I wouldn't really talk too much about, perhaps three months from now we will be able to give you heads up on performance. But we launched a lot of our year‐end goal, which has been really flying off the shelves so again our growth effort as we agree with products. And that's something which we believe has a lot of traction.
So this was the one of the many relaunches and all we did, the other major initiative which we did the fact in the second quarter was completely focus of the shampoos sorry as the earlier part of the quarter was for refurbishment of the shampoos in terms of formulation, in terms of packaging, in terms of the marketing mix and the results we have all seen.
So I think it just shows that the names of the brand. Third quarter would be very ‐‐ will be very active in launch of new initiatives and beverages, we are looking at some value‐added in beverage spaces and some of them are very, very interesting.
We'll be completely revamping the marketing mix for Amla hair oil, which is actually now already on air, the campaigns et cetera and there will be several initiatives in an effectively every category in which we are operating. So you'll see definitely much more happening in terms of launch of new products as well as renovation of existing brands.
Analyst So against that backdrop, how confident are you of double‐digit volume growth for the fiscal year?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer I would be a little circumspect here and I would say that the volume band which we are seeing is 8 to 12, that may be a little wide. But it's hard to drill down to a more sharper figure. The reason for that is that the input costs remained high, so the price increases will continue to happen and the economy is perhaps not stronger, because as what it was a year or two ago.
So therefore it's better to decide the functions, we are internally shooting for 10% type of volume growth. I believe this is something which we'll be able to achieve, but there is no guarantee and I am talking about the domestic business, overseas business will be largely volume driven.
Analyst Thanks. And on the gross profit front last time you spoke about 200, 250 dip sort of a gross profit margin expansion, has that view changed? No, it hasn't changed even though if you see Q2 numbers, you would question my statements, because there is actually a bigger contraction. But sorry if you take gross margin, it's having said that as far as the India business is concerned, I am quite frankly little disappointed with the margin expansion there. It's come up by fairly miniscule 33 basis points we'd expected considerably more. If you include overseas, then the picture looks much better. And the reason for that is the rupee continues to be extremely weak, our input cost in key area such as beverages, the concentrate, the laminates, spices continue to rule at lifetime high prices key domestic inputs like honey and sugar have been extremely unfriendly in terms of the pricing table and while there have been some pockets of good numbers coming in from edible oils, LLP et cetera, overall they had seen only a marginal improvement in our material cost profile as far as India business is concerned.
Overseas it's very different particularly in the MENA business, there has been a dramatic increase in improvement in the overall margin delivery, but since India is really the big boy here, that has been little bit less than what we expected.
Going forward, again I don't see huge expansion in gross margins, there would be some, but I would take it be in the region of 100 basis points to 150 basis point over the last year and not perhaps 200 to 250, which I would have expected six months ago.
Analyst And finally on the international business, is the recalibration of the ORS brand complete now?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer No, it is, well it's complete as far as we are concerned. As far as on ground roll‐out is that's still happening. So, we have to get relisting done in several accounts, and it's still work in progress. I think by end of this quarter, the recalibration would have
happened.
The architecture would have been completely revamped. Even more importantly I think the Africa business, which now we have got South Africa back under control, but West Africa will take another two three months for industry to happen. So, overall we believe that the worst is mostly behind us. There will be still another couple of quarters, where we will have to navigate with some care. But I think the numbers which you will see going forward will definitely look better.
Analyst Right sir. And one last question. You were talking in a big way about the distribution realignment and putting more fleet on the ground et cetera.
So, if you just look at the volume growth at this point in time and talking about 8% to 12%, would it be fair to assume that in the absence of this distribution thrust the volumes would have been even lower than what you will report or are reporting?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer I believe so. Because they have been the CHD drag et cetera, which we will manage to overcome and deliver a reasonable set of volume growth numbers.
And it's really been significantly driven by rural. Now it's not entirely on account of the rural initiative because rural markets are going ahead of urban and we would have taken advantage of that. But just to give you one sort of a I think even more importantly the gross margin profile has moved up by approximately to 400 growth of 3 basis points for rural portfolio it's still lacking behind overall, but only marginally so earlier it was lagging significantly behind overall growth margin. So the growth margin will be very close to aggregate gross margin to the to the India business.
Analyst Very clear.
Gagan Ahluwalia, General Manager, Corporate Affairs Urban growth of course also include CHD erosion so actual when growth is around more than 13% excluding CHD.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Actually we haven't factored CHD into urban or rural, CHD it's going to open
Analyst Okay. Thank you very much sir.
Operator Thank you. The next question is from Varun Lohchab from Religare Capital Markets. Please go ahead.
Varun Lohchab Yeah thanks for the opportunity. Sir my question was again on the volume growth if you see 9% is against a very favorable way of last year when you grew only 5% in this quarter.
So if I now look at the two quarters combined, there is a significant slowdown in growth vis‐à‐vis what we did in last couple of quarters. So is it just the festive push back or is there some sort of significant slowdown that you're seeing in certain pockets. And if that's the case which categories broadly the category level not from your portfolio perspective are you seeing...
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer I think it's a part possessive push back past CHD, which is a major generator of volume. But having said that I'm still pretty optimistic about driving good volume growth even in the next quarters where the base was no longer low. So, I gave indicative number of 8% to 12% and that is something we should be able to do even when the base high like in the next two quarters.
Varun Lohchab So that's assuming CHD obviously one underlying.... I am very confident that CHD will no longer be the big drag, it's been in the first two quarters if my assumptions are wrong, then obviously there would be lowering volume growth. But I am pretty certain and we know the way CHD is operating. And we do believe that the downsizing they've did for the business et cetera is now largely over, they can't downsize forever. Ultimately there is certain consumption which happens downstream. So, the growth will ‐‐ we've already seen the order book does looks fairly healthy. Still early guess, but like I said we believe the worst is over.
Varun Lohchab Okay. Sir secondly on when I look at the segmental margins CCD you have done pretty well segment result are up around 20% Y‐o‐Y, so problem has been juices or the foods part, where the EBIT has not grown at all Y‐o‐Y. So, is it largely currency impact or also significant....
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Entirely currency impact. We've taken our prices, but they haven't been enough to mitigate the rupee weakening, basically that's the culprit. It is one more element which there is a higher amount of countervailing duty imposed by the Indian government from Nepal impose, which has also contributed but the biggest culprit is currency.
Having said that, you might say that your margin expansions, your EBITDA growth is pretty muted 12.7%, overall margin expansion actually did margin contraction but keep in mind that due to like somebody mentioned earlier that it was on a low volume base, but Q2 was an extraordinary high EBITDA base last year and a 20.5% is the number which we saw for consolidated and 22.1 for domestic. These are the number, which you never seen ever in the history of the company. So, we really are delivering a domestic EBITDA of 21.3, which according to me is pretty good and 19.2 of a console, which is again as per our action standards.
Now if you'll take third quarter you will see a EBITDA delivery last year of what 16%, 16.5%? 16.7%, so, you might see a much better EBITDA delivery happening this quarter because of the lower base. So, you should straight lining a little bit and not get taken away because obviously you have 22% EBITDA delivery for domestic business. It's really not sustainable at this point in time at least.
Varun Lohchab And also in terms of input cost sir and looking at the way currency is at least stabilizing now at the margin it seems gross margin pressure should be less in second half vis‐à‐vis first half, will that be a fair statement?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Not necessarily, I mean Rupee is still 54, I don't see much hope on that front. Inflation is still at 10%, 9%, 10%. It doesn't seem to be any major comfort coming from these two metrics rupee and inflation. So I don't see the comps part really coming down the material cost proving beneficial to us. So I will be happy to see EBITDA at the current levels which is 19 or little above the 19 for the balance of the year, which is like what we have indicated even earlier on that if we have a full year EBITDA delivery of 19 to 19.5 we will be pretty satisfied because this is pretty close to our all‐time highs which we saw in '10‐'11. But even this, I am not taking for granted it's not going to be easy to achieve rest for the balance of the year.
Varun Lohchab Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer No, there is no improvement in margins vis‐à‐vis last year. But they haven't gone back to '10‐'11 levels, which were like I said extraordinarily high almost on a unsustainable for a very competitive category. But we have seeing a gradual inching up of margins.
And our initiatives are so programed that the margin delivery would continuously improve here. So I am pretty hopeful that we'll see better margins emerging. But like I said, they are still much better than what they were last year.
Varun Lohchab Okay. And sir just lastly on international growth, what would be the constant currency growth?
Gagan Ahluwalia, General Manager, Corporate Affairs It's around 16% excluding the acquisition.
Varun Lohchab 16%, okay. Okay, that's it from my side. Thanks a lot and all the best.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer You're welcome. Thanks.
Operator Thank you. The next question is from Shirish Pardeshi from Anand Rathi. Please go ahead.
Shirish Pardeshi Yeah hi sir. And good evening.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Hi.
Shirish Pardeshi Just a couple of question; broadly I mean there were market reports, which are suggesting that there is a slowdown in rural. I don't want to rub more. But just wanted to sort of see which part of if tier 2 is the growth momentum is still impact or is tier 2 is reflecting higher growth momentum? So I think tier 2 seems to be impact. Having said that when you talk about these macro numbers like overall slowdown, we're still a pretty small fish in the pond. So, even if there is some slowdown, we shouldn't really let that focus into thinking that our performance is going to be reflected in that slowdown, we can outperform, we can gain market share, we can do so many things.
But to answer your questions, overall there seems to be some slowdown in tier 3 in rural, but I mean tier ‐‐ rural basically, tier 2, tier 3 seems to be impact and urban seems to be again slowing down a little bit, a little bit larger than tier 1 and metros. But again I would not use that as an excuse to reflect any slowdown on our business. I think there is enough headroom in most of our categories to grow even if there is a slowdown.
So we should aim at stronger growth double‐digit growth happening in rural markets, because we're putting a lot of investments and infrastructure and we have to get the full benefit out of it.
Shirish Pardeshi Okay. Thank you. My next question is on the international business. Although you guys have done wonderful job and now the growth is back to 25. I just wanted to check this unrest in GCC and MENA region. Is that over or this is the steady state growth or there is some more steam, which is left and then coming two quarters we can see that for the growth?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer See, the interest was last year in the so called YSL countries, Yemen, Syria and Lebanon. So Yemen and Lebanon, this Yemen, Syria and Libya it's my mistake, not Lebanon. So Libya and Yemen are pretty much under control, we are getting good growth there. Syria there is no business happening and this 20‐odd crore markets, which is highly profitable, so that's hurt.
I think the bigger slowdown has really happened in Egypt, where we were growing business consistently at 20%, 25% plus, which has come down now to 15%, 16%. Still not bad, but lower than what we were being earlier. The GCC business continues to be under good momentum and so does Nigeria.
Shirish Pardeshi Okay. My last question is on the skin care portfolio, though it's a fantastic growth of 24.8%, probably if you can share what is the volume and value in that particular length, what segment of skin care you're seeing the growth?
Gagan Ahluwalia, General Manager, Corporate Affairs There is good volume of business growth of skin care.
Shirish Pardeshi But out of the 25, how much...
Gagan Ahluwalia, General Manager, Corporate Affairs ...value exactly...
Shirish Pardeshi ...category.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer I don't think there has been any significant price increases in skin care, it's not. So we can take it as around 80% volume driven.
Shirish Pardeshi Okay. And within that, I mean is the growth is more led off in terms of the rural segment or is in the urban segment?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Both, but rural started performing off a very low base. So it's still not huge in the context of the skin care portfolio, but the growth in rural are significantly ahead of urban. But since urban has so overwhelming here, it has to be driven by urban growths. But I think rural is not chipping in and will increasingly form important part of the skin care portfolio.
Shirish Pardeshi Okay. All the best and thanks.
Operator Thank you. The next question is from Paresh Jain from Max Life. Please go ahead.
Paresh Jain
Yeah. Sir, can you just tell us throw some light on other expenses which you have increased something like 30% Y‐o‐Y?
Gagan Ahluwalia, General Manager, Corporate Affairs Other expenditure basically there are two elements. One is investments and distribution side, which we have made in India and this is mainly relating to Project Double and as we had indicated earlier, there will be investment of about 20 crores to 25 crores in these initiatives on an annualized basis, which is reflected in the increase in overheads.
And also in the overseas businesses there has been increase in other expenditure on account of distribution expansion, infrastructure and all which we are building in Africa and for Namaste business.
Paresh Jain Okay. So this is likely to continue or is it likely to stabilize at this level? Well, I think as we look forward it's may not be as high, the increases may not as high. There also could be some chasing issues here, some expenses that have bunched up in the second quarter.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer This will be more or less be stabilizing because in the base, the distribution have got impacted going forward. So, we will see more or less like‐to‐like going forward. So, we will not see distribution expenses growing here. Because the initiatives were really completed second quarter of last year and the full impact began in the third quarter. Again our like‐to‐like, you won't see the same increase third quarter onwards. The order can already factor into last year's numbers.
Paresh Jain Okay. And how do you see the A&P expense now going forward?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer They would be higher in Q3 as compared to Q2, only because the festive season which will demand high level of investment. And typically Q3 advertising is the highest amongst all the four quarters. So you will definitely see an increase of our let's say in domestic we did how much, 9% to 10%, it will be higher than 10%.
Paresh Jain Okay. Fine. Thank you.
Gagan Ahluwalia, General Manager, Corporate Affairs So, our interest rate stays around...
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Qualitative, it may not be much higher, because overseas spend is will had a curve. Domestic is going to be higher so aggregate if you did console it will be probably higher than the 12% which you have seen, but not dramatically but for domestic is likely to be significantly higher.
Paresh Jain Okay, fine. Thank you.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer
You're welcome. Thank you. [Operator Instructions]
The next question is from Vivek Maheshwari from CLSA. Please go ahead.
Vivek Maheshwari Hi, good evening everyone.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Good evening.
Vivek Maheshwari You're consolidated volume growth in this quarter is 10.5% is that correct?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Yeah.
Vivek Maheshwari Okay. Second on domestic business your presentation phase the growth is 15.5 whereas standalone if I look at your accounts the growth is 18.5% does that mean that standalone will have an element of exports and therefore the growth is looking higher there?
Gagan Ahluwalia, General Manager, Corporate Affairs Yeah, this is commodity exports business one which was very high first quarter.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Yeah that's right.
Vivek Maheshwari Okay.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Practically the domestic FMCG business has contributed 15% plus and it's the roar exports which has facilitated the standalone growth. I see, okay. And your tax rate at a consol level were around 18.5%. So what will be full year, one is it lower and second on a full year basis what should the number be around?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer It is lower mainly because of the recent international profits have been higher where the effective tax rate is much lower. And there was the marginal deferred tax adjustment as well that you give to the next computations. Going ahead, it may be marginally higher from this level, but there will be no significant increase.
Vivek Maheshwari
Understood.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Yes, it will be capped at around sub‐20%.
Vivek Maheshwari 19%‐20%, okay. And somebody had asked about other expenses. Similarly, staff cost anything to read their 25% increase?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Staff would be partly on account of sales and marketing personnel, which are not ‐‐ into other. As we have explained this the distribution. So, distribution includes the expansion of the fleet on street on as well and that is also partly captured in the staff cost as well.
Vivek Maheshwari Okay. And one last thing, your presentation also mentions that Pudin Hara, Isabgol you have reclassified under digestive category from OTC. What would be the rational for this will there be any advantage of this because of the alignment and all that?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer I think it puts more focus into our digestives category, which was earlier the Hajmola, in fact I never quite understood why I am putting under OTC, it should have always been under digestives. It is a clear digestive products, if we have a digestives category, it's pointless not putting Pudin Hara and Isabgol under that.
Vivek Maheshwari Okay, so is it just a classification change or something also change in individual account? Ignore it, it's just a classification.
Vivek Maheshwari Classification all right. Thank you much and all the best.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Okay. Thank you.
Operator Thank you. [Operator Instructions]
The next question is from Vaishali Jajoo from Aegon Religare. Please go ahead.
Vaishali Jajoo Good evening everyone. Again one question on the advertising spend:if you see a quarter‐on‐quarter trend sequential basis Q1 to Q2. There were substantial decline and acquisition going to the second and half I think it will be a marginal increase as you said.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer
Margin is at a consol level but fairly probably...
Vaishali Jajoo Yeah, only domestic, but I am talking on a consol basis. It will not go substantially high as it was in the first quarter, right? I mean it was 15.5%
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Yeah, it won't be 15.5% I think that was extraordinarily high, because we had cut back on some E&P spends earlier on. But it will definitely add on the 11.9, which you saw.
Vaishali Jajoo Okay. And on the other expenditures side is there any variable component on that for staff cost and other expenditure because of the promotional thing, which is going for rural development?
Corporate Participant Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer So, the subsequent increases now will be fairly marginal. The big ticket costs have been already booked.
Vaishali Jajoo Okay. One more thing on the raw material side last time when we spoke about is the spices and other raw material, which was not available as trendy.
So, last time you had given there was a little bit of concern on the monsoon side, but right now the monsoon has panned out quite well, how do you see the inflationary pressure on the spices and other agri commodities, which goes into your input cost.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Half the spices are imported from East Asia from various parts of the world actually. And that really is the area of concern. Even though the domestic prices, they do seem to be fairly benign. But overseas prices are high. So the overall price level is still pretty as high as what we saw last year was not higher.
Vaishali Jajoo So the trend continues to be inflationary and there is no softness in those prices...
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer I don't think we should see big inflation over current base. But when we see any significant level of deflation, because that's what we should expect given the very high table which exists. That may or may not happen, but I just think they already had life time high as many of these commodities. So I don't see them further strengthening.
Vaishali Jajoo Okay. That's all from my side. Thank you.
Operator Thank you. The next question is from Jayshree D from Pari Washington. Please go ahead.
Analyst Good evening, Sunil this is Aruna here. It will be helpful is that can you just comment on your Amla Hair Oil performance, that will be helpful Sunil.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Vivek Maheshwari Okay.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Largely volume driven and the performance has been pretty good. Now if you take overall perfumed hair oils growth, which is what 15.4, 80% is Amla or 90% is Amla.
Analyst So, perfumed hair oil includes Amla or what?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Yeah perfumed includes Amla, it's in fact 90% Amla, and there is a couple of smaller hair oils.
Analyst Okay, that's very helpful.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer So it's indicative of how Amla has grown.
Analyst Okay that's very helpful, Sunil. My next question is what's the planned CapEx for this year as well as for the next year?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer It's around 175 crores.
Analyst For this year?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Yeah, 175 to 200 crores the projects are in progress, so it will be sharpened towards the second half.
Analyst Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Sorry?
Analyst
That's for F13?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer F13 yeah 175 is what we anticipate. Could be a little bit of overrun, but overall that will be on that level.
Analyst Okay. That's fine. Thank you, Sunil. Thank you.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer You are welcome.
Operator Thank you. The next question is from Aashish Upganlawar from Spark Capital. Please go ahead.
Aashish Upganlawar Just wanted to understand on the profitability of the international business both on the acquisition as well as organic business that we have. Hello?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Yeah, I'll get back to you.
Gagan Ahluwalia, General Manager, Corporate Affairs So, overall overseas business, basically profitability has expanded very well in the organic business. Hello?
Aashish Upganlawar Yes.
Gagan Ahluwalia, General Manager, Corporate Affairs Aashish Upganlawar Okay.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer And while still remains high, but the there was a good expansion in the margin.
Vivek Maheshwari Okay. But is it...
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Gross margins were at around 22% for the oversees business excluding that position.
Vivek Maheshwari Okay. So, is this gross margin expansion because of the price increase or...
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer It's basically very little on low price increase, all the growth you are seeing in the oversees business has been volume driven.
There is cost environment the material cost environment has been very favorable in most of the overseas market.
Aashish Upganlawar So, based on deflation that is expected to continue basically in these is it?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Not necessarily, I think we are sitting on pretty low table, in fact we are encouraging our team to now buy at current prices of what is your requirement in current prices. There may be a small downside in materials overseas, but not significant.
Vivek Maheshwari Okay, okay. And what about the acquisitions of Hobi and Namaste?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Vivek Maheshwari Okay. What would be the margins and any numbers to share on Hobi and Namaste?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer There we don't share individual businesses numbers, but Hobi recorded good growth, whereas the sales of Namaste declined in dollar terms; in rupees, of course, they all showed increase.
Vivek Maheshwari Okay, fine. And sir, on the rural side you said you witnessed some slowdown in the market basically. But is it any cost to worry for the market as a whole FMCG market as a whole, not for Dabur probably?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer I have to speak for the market, because we really focused upon our own business. But yes, if there is and rural which is instrumental in driving growth, it will curtail consumption. But having said that, I personally don't believe that it will affect stable consumption very much, certainly consumption of discretionary would get impacted. Stable consumption is here to say that's what I believe is.
Vivek Maheshwari Okay. And this Project Double that we were running how much is it complete now?
Gagan Ahluwalia, General Manager, Corporate Affairs 90% in Europe.
Vivek Maheshwari
Okay.
Gagan Ahluwalia, General Manager, Corporate Affairs We expect the whole thing to be implemented by December. Basically the people, who were expected to be recruited have been put in place.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Such as we are at 91% levels of project. So it's complete to a significant extent, even the outreach program is start of course, it will never end pushing the last mile forward. But the big bang expansions have already happened. Is that fine?
Vivek Maheshwari Hello?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Yes. Can you hear me?
Vivek Maheshwari Yeah, I can hear you. I was just asking the good numbers that we have been seeing on the volume growth, because I mean because of this expansion as well. Till how long do you think that can significantly help the volume growth on the rural side?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer For a long period of time, because keep in mind, this is not a distribution expansion exercise. It is an improvement in the overall quality of distribution, which is the prime focus. We want to have a larger assortment of products and a larger and a better margin profile emanating out of rural. And one year ago, we estimated that our gross margins out of rural was 41%, 42% as against business average of 47, 48.
Vivek Maheshwari Okay.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer We believe that we had pushed them up to around 45% and the task obviously is to put them at category center, so that the rural growth do not sort of drag overall margin profile.
Vivek Maheshwari Sure.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer If that is achieved with some expansion in overall distribution reach, then we really have no reason to complain, because keep in mind that our products are today available in 5.5 million outlets.
Vivek Maheshwari Correct.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Vivek Maheshwari But sir what products are being actively pushed now and I mean what can be the continuing push that we can expect. I understand that few of the products, which were rather had pull factors were bought earlier and now some a lot of the products might be pushed there, I mean which are lacking behind compared to the front line?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer We have been in the last four, five years, we have expanded our portfolio source substantially that is doesn't have any you can't recognize it from what it was five years ago with the acquisition, et cetera. So we obviously have to make and these products are pretty popular, accessible, affordable and the people are aware of these products. We should have to make them available.
Vivek Maheshwari Sure. Thank you sir. Thanks a lot.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Okay. Thanks.
Operator Thank you. The next question is from Harit Kapoor from IDFC. Please go ahead.
Nikhil Vora Hi. This is Nikhil Vora here. Hi Sunil. Sir, just couple of things just the way the environment is right now. Do you think it's conducive enough to right now push more on volumes or is there any flexibility on increasing prices also?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer I think what...
Nikhil Vora What drawback that you would receive for doing either of them?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer I would beg sustainable, near‐term sustainable volume price issue as two third, one third. That seems to be very really what the market can sustain, which is supportive of your margins. So that is really how we will see to drive growth at least in the next few quarters. After that, it all depends upon the whole inflation scenario if it cools off considerably,
Nikhil Vora Sure. Right now, you don't really sense urgency or the need to change momentum of the business at all?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer No, I think the driving this around the trajectory of very calibrated price increases wherever opportunity present itself and a strong emphasis on volume growth driven through rural initiatives is really the rationale behind the domestic business.
Nikhil Vora
Okay. Second one is this good environment right now to really look at NPDs or you think that would take a backseat in general for most...
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Overall environment this year, I am finding it far more, I am talking about the domestic business here, I am finding it far more supportive and benign to us at least than one year ago. The bad thing about last year hyperinflation, disruptive competition et cetera and not progressive consumer demands seem to be behind us. We are looking at a brighter results coming out of the domestic business.
Nikhil Vora Okay. And last is actually in generic again your appetite are acquisition is it now slightly more domestic centric against international?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Yeah, I mean let's put it this way, there is still lot of work to be done in consolidating existing at least the two overseas business. So, I think the domestic ones have been fully assimilated and not firing. But I would be little bit circumspect in driving more acquisitive growth and very focus upon driving the synergy from the current businesses and very scaling them up before we ‐‐ into anything and completely new. So, we have been far more quickly in terms of our valuation process, which is not to say that we shut our eyes income any deals at all. But we certainly a far from even what perhaps we were couple of years ago.
Nikhil Vora Okay. Just lastly Sunil just on one brand specific Real, do you think there is lot more that we could have juiced out from Real than what we've done till in terms of either the brand itself or including some categories and so on?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer I think we've done, I'm very happy with the way Real has perform not just in terms of the volume trajectory, which has been all have seen very strong. But also in terms of the margin delivery, this is a very hard category to extract margins from. And out of the 15 years of its history, we have lead for 10 years and now we are making very decent 13%, 14%, 15% EBITDA margins from this business. I don't think anybody else is doing this kind of delivery. So, I think it's really effective that we have been able to manage a very difficult category and drive a profitable business out of it.
Nikhil Vora Okay, good. Thank you so much for this and all the best.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Thank you.
Operator Thank you. The next question is from Prakash Kapadia from iAlpha Enterprises. Please go ahead.
Prakash Kapadia Sir, just some sense on newer products; we've read about products like coconut water, fruit chips or fiber biscuits and something on the homecare, where we were looking at the car freshener channel. Do we see them being launched sometime next year?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer
No. They've already been launched. In fact coconut water is in the market. It's being soft launched in Punjab. We are seeing little circumspect in doing national launch, because we always test product stability in actual consumption situation et cetera, but if you go to Punjab you will see the product, it's very attractive pack, priced unfortunately very high because of the high input cost Rs. 30 for 200 ml. But it's, we think there is a lot of traction which we can try with this.
Prakash Kapadia And is it under the Real brand sir, or there is something....
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer It's under Active.
Prakash Kapadia Okay.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Prakash Kapadia And sir given our culinary performance, would we go slow and say newer initiative like Bhuna Masala, Pizza sauce, the gravy.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer I mean this is pretty muted initiatives there. We have been not usually satisfied with the culinary business, not from the point of view of growth, but from the point of view of consistency of margin delivery.
It is still a semi commoditized business. So we are not putting huge emphasis here as of now, but we are not getting rid of it in either we are still seeing it as a business of the future or keeping a foot in the door and who knows tomorrow we may find something interesting happening here.
Analyst Okay sir. Thanks. All the best.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Thanks.
Operator Thank you. The next question is from Jayshree D from Pari Washington. Please go ahead.
Analyst There is one book keeping question Sunil, what's the debt on the book?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Debt on the book.
Gagan Ahluwalia, General Manager, Corporate Affairs Debt on the book as on date is around 932 crores.
Analyst Okay. And how does it affect the foreign currency and domestic? 75% of that is...
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Foreign currency. So 700 crore to 750 crore is in the foreign currency in the international even in India I think mostly is the foreign currency.
Analyst Okay that's fine. Thank you, that's helpful. Thanks.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer 965 crores cash in the balance sheet cash and cash equivalent.
Operator Thank you. The next question is from Richard Liu from JM Financial. Please go ahead.
Richard Liu Hi thanks for taking my question. Good evening Mr. Duggal. I just wanted to check one thing; I mean all these initiatives that we are planning and coupled with all the launches relaunches et cetera, where does this lead our earlier core offering of herbal and Ayurvedic proposition, I mean do you think that still has relevance and if I can just ask what percentage of your portfolio today in terms of the domestic portfolio would have backstabbed on it? And how was this about three to five years back?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer See, if you take the umbrella proposition of herbal and natural, I would say that 90% of our domestic business is under that umbrella and I am including the beverage this year. The only thing, which is not here is really the Homecare business. So, even our beverages are very squarely on the nutritional and health platforms. So, I would include them under the overall of ambit of Ayurvedic and natural.
Of course Ayurvedic component is smaller than the overall herbal component, but even that is very significant in size. And I think what we've learnt over the years is that we should certainly not deviate from this platform we should actually strength it. Because whenever we have deviated it from this platform in an effort to chase much higher growth actually we have not really performed well, and we have sort of come back to our root, so as to speak and reinforce the herbal and Ayurvedic platform.
So this is a the herbal and Ayurvedic company, there could be some businesses, which largely would to acquisitions like Balsara home care, which should not be on this platform, but the business would almost entirely be on a herbal and natural platform. And I don't see that changing at least in the medium to long term...
Richard Liu Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer I think whatever drill it out will home the herbal proposition very hard the Ayurvedic residence is very high. I mean take for example the Red toothpaste, which is at a premium to the mainstream toothpaste. And it's definitely much faster growing that perhaps any other major brand in the market, very strongly herbal Ayurvedic. Take Chyawanprash, fastest growing Ayurvedic tonic in the market. Even take Amla hair oil, which are able to sustain massive premiums and still deliver and good volumes.
So, I think this is really where we are and where we should remain. Whenever we to have unlearning, we try to main stream our shampoos two three years ago, because we were really looking at huge growth happening here and that didn't really work. Because I think consumers didn't see adequate amount of differentiation. So, we pulled back and we have repositioned it once again very strongly on the herbal platform and we are seeing growth coming back.
Richard Liu Okay. And if you can just share with us some insights as to what perhaps doing to really elongate the life of maybe a category like Chyawanprash. I know you've been trying a lot of the mango chocolate variants, et cetera. But I mean how do you see the relevance of that playing out versus today's generation?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer I think we appeal to the consumers logic that this is a product, which is not something with the mold with a bit of cocoa added in it. But it's got 2,000 years of heritage behind it, a very complex administration of 57 hubs, a proven history of delivering benefits such as building immunity, et cetera and then we are leaving the consumer to judge whether he sees value here and more often than not being succeed in delivering that proposition.
So, I think the future for Chyawanprash in particular is extremely bright and as and when consumers become more educated and more discerning in the choices of product, I think products like Chyawanprash gets the whole value proposition, which is so strong would emerge with immense force. So earlier on, there was a little bit of concern that these products may seem hot cake and old fashioned. But I think the Indian youth is far more sophisticated in the world and doesn't really go after western facts blindly. They are pretty rooted in Indian culture and traditions and Ayurveda is part of that. You see that explosion of on Ayurveda, Yoga, Meditation, et cetera, very Indian.
Richard Liu Okay. And if you were to do did stick to survey, I mean do you see as many youths purchasing the product as you see let's say the older generation?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Yes. I think youth is not the problem, it's really the kids, who would find taste as a barrier. And I think we really have to appeal to the mothers to overcome this taste barrier and as and when they grow older, it tastes like many products, not become habituated to that taste. So still the task is to drill down the immunity platform, so heavily that the taste barrier is overcome and people start buying and selling the brand ‐‐ and consuming the products. So it's something,
Richard Liu Okay. Sure. That's useful. Thanks for your time. And if I can just push in one maintenance question here:what was the constant currency growth in the international business?
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Including he acquisition it was 16% of it.
Richard Liu 16%. And how much is it excluding the acquisition I mean the erstwhile your organic international business?
Gagan Ahluwalia, General Manager, Corporate Affairs That was at 16%?
Richard Liu 16%?
Gagan Ahluwalia, General Manager, Corporate Affairs Yeah.
Richard Liu Okay. That's thanks and I wish all the best.
Sunil Duggal, Chief Executive Officer Thank you.
Operator Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen that was the last question. I now hand the conference back to Mrs. Gagan Ahluwalia for closing comments.
Gagan Ahluwalia, General Manager, Corporate Affairs Thank you, Marina. We thank you for participating in this conference call. For any further queries you may contact us. An archived webcast and transcripts will be available on our website. Thank you once again ladies and gentlemen, and have a very nice weekend. Thank you very much. On behalf of Dabur India Limited, that concludes this conference call. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.