Podcast Episode 75 2015 - paleomagonline.com€¦ · doing the HCG diet and for people who don’t...

Paleo Magazine Podcast Episode 75

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Podcast Episode 75

2015

{Music}

Host: Welcome to PMR, Paleo Magazine Radio, where we bring you Paleo

nutrition, exercise and lifestyle perspectives, from both the experts and the

every day. PMR is brought to you by Paleo Magazine, the first and only print

magazine dedicated to the Paleo lifestyle and is hosted by Tony Federico.

Tony Federico: As the old saying goes, when life gives you lemons, make lemonade, or in this

case, make a best-selling book about the Paleo diet. When Hayley and Bill

Staley found their careers in a slump following the 2008 economic collapse,

they knew that they needed a change. They had recently discovered the Paleo

diet and it had had profound effects on their health and fitness. They decided

to use their creative abilities to start a food blog, The Food Lovers Primal

Palate. They took the project seriously from day one and their hard work has

paid off.

They now have several best-selling books under their belt, the most recent of

which is Make it Paleo II, co-authored by Hayley’s sister, Caitlin Grace

Nagelson. It’s a beautiful book packed with amazing recipes and it’s sure to

be a bestseller. I had the pleasure of speaking with Bill and Hayley today and

we talked about everything from diets to food photography to writing books

and what it’s like living the life of a Paleo author.

In the second half of today’s episode, I sit down with Adam Farrah and

another installment of Big Picture Paleo. Today Adam and I talk about The 4-


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Hour Work Week, the ultimate guide to workplace minimalism authored by

Tim Ferriss. Adam and I both read The 4-Hour Work Week several years ago,

but we’re bringing it back and rereading it, rediscovering some of the

principles that are still relevant today. I hope you enjoy today’s episode,

making it Paleo and making yourself more effective at work. Paleo Magazine

Radio starts now.

{Music}

Tony Federico: All right, everybody, we’re here for another episode of Paleo Magazine Radio.

Today it’s a long overdue interview with Hayley and Bill Staley of

PrimalPalate.com, authors of the brand-new cookbook, Make it Paleo II.

Hayley and Bill, welcome to the show.

Hayley Mason: Thanks for having us.

Bill Staley: Glad to be here.

Tony Federico: Just in case there’s somebody who’s listening who hasn’t heard of you guys

and for whatever reason, didn’t come across Make it Paleo, didn’t come

across Gather, 30 Day Guide to Going Paleo. Could you start us off with a

little of your own personal story? How you got into Paleo in the first place,

how you got into blogging, food photography and writing cookbooks for a

living.

Hayley Mason: So, when I first met Bill, I had been Paleo for a couple of months. I had

always struggled with my weight. Couldn’t ever really find something that

worked for me and right before I went Paleo, I was vegetarian, just for like a


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year. I didn’t eat red meat for a long time, but I eliminated all animal protein

for like a year and I upped soy protein and my thyroid slowed down.

Tony Federico: Just to kind of get a little background, what were your sources of information?

I guess why did you, at that time, decide that that was a good idea?

Hayley Mason: I read Skinny Bitch.

Tony Federico: Ah.

Hayley Mason: Yes.

Bill Staley: Fat bitch.

Tony Federico: I was just waiting for it. (Inaudible).

Hayley Mason: Yes. I read that book and I had gotten really into hot yoga. After high school,

I was kind of obsessed with working out. I was either doing spin classes or

kickboxing and then, I got into hot yoga. Some of the yoga instructors were

vegetarian, not all of them, but I think with a little bit of the yoga influence

and then, reading that book, I just sort of thought I would go for it. And after

years of doing like crash dieting and then, binge eating on junk food, the one

good thing about going vegetarian was it was the first time I had really taken

on a life style and stopped sort of trying to do something that was really

restrictive in the way of like calories.

Tony Federico: It was like a food template for the first time rather than just a, “I’m going to

do this thing for a short time and then, kind of go right back to the status quo.”


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This was an attempt to focus on food quality and kind of like you said, do

something for a life style.

Hayley Mason: Right, yes, so I had gained a bunch of weight and I was just sort of miserable

and I haven’t talked about this too much, but I actually found Paleo through

doing the HCG diet and for people who don’t know what that is, you take

HCG hormone, either sublingually or as an injection and you eat a super-

restrictive diet for like 30 days.

Tony Federico: It’s very low in calories, correct?

Hayley Mason: Very low. You can’t have any fat. You have to eat like 500 calories a day or

something crazy. So, I lost 30 pounds in 30 days and the follow-up guide to

that, which was three weeks of Paleo, I had no idea that I was following Paleo.

I had just gotten into CrossFit, so I was hearing about Paleo a little bit, but I

didn’t know that I was doing Paleo and the weight I had lost was staying off.

I was feeling good. I actually felt like I was eating in a way that really worked

for me.

And my mom’s cousin came into town for Thanksgiving and he was following

Paleo and he really explained it to me in a way that was kind of inspiring, like

he just said, “This is how our ancestors ate and we can’t really digest certain

foods,” and it really just made a lot of sense to me, so I was like, “Wow, this is

great. I’m going to stick with it,” and I ordered The Paleo Diet book and I

found Mark’s Daily Apple online and ordered The Primal Blueprint and then,

I met Bill.


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Bill was really the first guy who really supported me in a healthy way of

eating. Every other guy that I kind of dated thought it was weird or was just

like, “Oh, I eat McDonald’s and my blood work is great,” or something, you

know? So, they just sort of always like made fun of me for it.

Bill Staley: I’m baffled by people that it doesn’t make sense to. It’s like, “Hey, eat real

food. It’s healthy.” It’s like how does it not make sense to anyone?

Tony Federico: I think there was an (inaudible) article not too long ago and it’s like, “Man

eats real foods that taste delicious, feels great. People think he’s crazy,”

something along those lines.

Bill Staley: Yes, exactly.

Tony Federico: So, when you met Hayley, Bill, had you already had some exposure to Paleo

or were you just like, “I’m in. That sounds good. That makes sense.”

Bill Staley: Yes, sort of the latter. I mean, I really only started getting into like fitness

after college and believe me, once I started getting into it, I really wished I

had done it earlier. You know the old saying, like, “Tomorrow you’ll wish

you had started today.” I was like lifting weights and a lot of the guys I lived

with down in D.C., they encouraged me to go to the gym with them and that

was cool because then I had people help me sort of figure out how to start

doing that.

I was making steps towards being fit, but I wasn’t making any steps towards

actually being healthy. So, when I met Hayley, like it just totally clicked for

me. I was like, “Oh, well, I’ve been doing these things, but if I ate well, like it


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would have a really profound effect on the other things I’m doing, too.” So, I

was pretty much all-in. I didn’t know anything about Paleo.

I had actually never even really heard about it, but we sort of dove in together

and when we started dating, it was really just like a fresh commitment that we

had both made and it was really just a few months later, I said, “Hey, like I’m

going to go all-in on this with you,” and that was when we started our blog,

like in the early summer of 2010, so it’s been just about five years now. Even

in its early stages, we took it really seriously. Like it was a hobby, but it was

also something we were really passionate about, like we always had things

planned for the blog, like what we were doing next. We tried to post twice a

week.

Things just sort of evolved rapidly, like you mentioned the food photography.

I’ve always had an interest in photography, but I’ve never like taken a course

or anything. I’m basically self-taught when it comes to that and the same with

Hayley, too. We got a good camera after starting the blog a few months.

Tony Federico: What was your intention with it? Did you think, “Hey, Paleo is working for

us. We’d like to develop this into a business at some point,” or, was it, “Hey,

this diet’s working for us. We want to get the message out there and to do

that, we want it to look really clean, professional and now we’ve got to figure

out how to do that.”

Hayley Mason: Yes, so I’m a makeup artist. I was trained in Hollywood to do makeup for

print and TV and my mom had been saying to me for a couple of years, like,

“You should start a blog. You should start a blog,” and I didn’t really

understand what that was. I didn’t really understand blogging. Bill and I


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were both living in Pittsburgh and work was kind of difficult for both of us.

We were just sort of doing what we could to get by. I mean, he had gotten laid

off a couple of times, just from the economy, like he was a landscape architect

and the firms that he was working for had to lay people off.

Tony Federico: Was this around the time of the big economic downturn, like 2008, 2009?

Bill Staley: Yes, at the time, it was like my world came crashing down, but it was sort of

the best thing that ever happened to me. I was living in D.C. and I was

working down there and then, I came back and I took a job with a company in

Pittsburgh that did more like government-type work. I probably can’t talk too

much about it, but…

Tony Federico: It’s all very top-secret government work.

Bill Staley: Yes, yes, but the company that I was working for ultimately ended up being

sort of mismanaged. Funds were being mismanaged. I was just like, “You

know what? I can’t do this any more,” and I got laid off. Then, they brought

me back and I was like, “No. This is a bad idea.”

Hayley Mason: We sort of were in this position where we were like, “Well, the things that we

were trained to do,” and in Bill’s case, a safe job, he had a college degree

and…

Bill Staley: (Sounds like: In air) quotes, “safe.”

Hayley Mason: Well, you know, what you would think is a safe job. Mine really wasn’t

because I wanted to be a freelance makeup artist, so that’s not really a safe


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job. But in Bill’s case, what you would think is a safe job, “I’m going to

college.” He graduated at the top of his class. He had all these job offers right

out of college. I mean, that sounds like a safe career and it wasn’t.

So, we were kind of in this position where we were like, “Well, you know, this

diet is kind of up-and-coming and more blogs are popping up,” and I think

when we really got into our blog, The Paleo Solution had just been published

and Sarah Fragoso’s first book was coming out. So, there was stuff out there

that kind of made us say, “Hey, if they can do it, maybe we can do it, too.”

Making a career out of it was always sort of our plan and we really

approached it as professionally as we could. We took it very seriously. It

probably looked ridiculous to so many of our family and friends that were just

like, “What are these kids doing taking pictures of food and putting them on

the Internet?” We were in this position where we were like, “Well, we have

nothing to lose, so why not?” I think if either of us had fulltime jobs that were

going well at the time, it probably would have been a lot different, but I guess,

lucky for us, which didn’t seem lucky at the time, we had the opportunity to

just sort of go for it.

Tony Federico: Talk to me a little bit about the early stages of your website, of your blog, just

getting equipped for that, just getting equipped to put together photography

and everything that’s involved in that. There’s just a lot of little details that, I

think, throw most people off this path.

Bill Staley: If you’re not tech-savvy to begin with, it’s really daunting. Our first camera

was probably the most basic Canon Rebel you can buy. It was a Canon XTi or

something like that. It only took photos. Almost all of them take video now,


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but I bought it off of Craigslist with whatever lens the guy had with it. I

mean, it was inexpensive and easy to use, which was kind of cool. I like that

route for somebody that doesn’t really know photography because you can dip

your feet in the pool without spending a ton of money and see if it’s

something that suits you or something that you’re good at.

And then, we moved up, geez, I don't know, not too many months later. I sold

that body and got a different, like sort of like the very next level up, which

also shot video because we sort of realized quickly that we could provide both

on the blog. Like we could do photos and video and we’re actually really

doing a lot more video now.

And then, probably within the first four months of shooting, I quickly realized

that it wasn’t so much about the camera as it was about the lens you’re putting

on it. But somebody got me a macro-lens for my birthday that year – and I

could talk about photography until I’m blue in the face.

But it was really just sort of a progression and I don’t really advocate many

people like go all-in, like to start off and get like a crazy, pro-level camera.

Like right now, we shoot with a Canon 5D. We actually got a second 5D

because we’re shooting so much video now and having the second camera

angle, shooting simultaneously, it’s really beneficial.

Yes, there’s a lot of support gear that goes with it, too. I think tripods are

really important, especially for people shooting food photography that could

potentially be in low light. Just getting the camera stable is really important.

Funny sort of side story right now. We have this really insane giveaway going


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on on our website where we have a $2,000 camera package that we’re giving

away at the end of February, so…

Tony Federico: Now, this isn’t one of your personal cameras?

Hayley Mason: No.

Bill Staley: No, but it’s something we’ve hand-picked, so it’s sort of like ties perfectly into

what you’re saying, is that if somebody wanted to like get into it and get our

picks, like they could go out and shop for these things, but we’re also going to

give one away. But yes, it’s like a Canon 70D body, which is like a 20

megapixel Canon camera that shoots like five frames a second and shoots

1080 video. And then, the lens that we’re doing with it is a 50mm with a 1.4

aperture.

Our friends, Russ Crandall, who’s The Domestic Man, he wrote The Ancestral

Table, and Josh Weissman, who wrote the Slim Palate cookbook, they both

shoot that lens and that lens is really sort of a dead ringer for shooting food

photography because it’s got a nice focal length. It’s got a big aperture and

it’s just – it can get really sharp, beautiful photos.

Tony Federico: Awesome. You actually put together a food photography guide, correct?

Bill Staley: Yes. So, we haven’t released that yet. It’s pretty funny. I’ve been sitting on it

for a year. I was working on it pretty heavily around this time last year and

then, we started on Make it Paleo II and I just sort of set it aside. It’s basically

done, but I’ve probably still got a few weeks of work left in it. I’m one of


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those crazy people where if I didn’t have a deadline, nothing would ever get

finished because I just keep working on it.

Tony Federico: You just kind of have to say, “Okay, this is as done as it’s going to get.”

Bill Staley: Yes. I have the eBook written. I’d really like to do some companion videos

that illustrate some points to go along with it, so maybe it’ll be done like later

this spring or in the summer. But yes, I’ve been working on an eBook for

that. We’ve been doing the food photography thing for awhile here. I mean,

we’ve shot all four of our books and we’re just wrapping up our third book

with someone else, too. We’re shooting Julie Bauer’s new cookbook. So, yes,

we’ve sort of been around the block. A lot of shutter actions on our camera.

Tony Federico: Yes and that’s, I think, one of the remarkable things that you see in the Paleo

community is people like yourselves who came from a totally different

background and were super-passionate and taught themselves how to do

websites and taught themselves how to do photography and now, are really

well-known for that and could probably go out and get jobs in photography or

book layouts or whatever other skills you’ve just kind of had to pick up along

the way.

Hayley Mason: You know, I have been cooking for awhile, just because I had always been on

a diet or something, so I was always cooking food for myself. That whole

part came pretty easy to me with starting a food blog and then, Bill, being a

designer, he knew all the programs that we really needed to start out. Like

he’s very fluent in InDesign and that’s a program that we use to put together

books and things like that. So, between the two of us, we kind of had all the

resources we really needed to start and both of us being artistic, we just had an


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eye for it. And we’ve learned so much over the past few years doing this. I

mean, if you look at our old stuff compared to our stuff now, I mean, it’s just

natural progression.

Tony Federico: So, when you wrote Make it Paleo, you had been kind of running your blog

for how long about at this time?

Bill Staley: Not very long. We got an email from Victory Belt, who’s our current

publisher, we got an email from them after only blogging for like nine months,

which is sort of crazy, you know, now that we look back on it, but it all sort of

stems from that big passion that we’ve always had for what we do and

charging very seriously into just trying to learn everything as quickly as we

could.

Tony Federico: And I think this is an interesting case because most people don’t have the

opportunity to ask themselves the question, “If I could do it all over again and

actually do it all over again,” so, in your case, you wrote a book, Make it

Paleo. From there, you did other projects, continued to develop your blog,

obviously and then, you’re like, “You know what? Maybe we could do this

all over again and then, kind of employ all the new skills and experience that

we have now.” What was it like making Make it Paleo II versus making Make

it Paleo I?

Hayley Mason: The biggest differences is that we brought my sister on to co-author the book

with us and my sister, she was the only female sushi chef in Pittsburgh for a

little while. She is a very talented cook. She’s a very talented sushi chef. We

always sort of wanted to write a cookbook with her, but her being in the

restaurant world, she was like, “No, I’m not doing that. I’m not doing that,”


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and she’s sort of funny. Like she can be kind of stubborn and we’re like,

“Come on. Come on. Like work on this project with us. It’s going to be

awesome.” She was like, “No, no, no. I don’t want to do that.”

And then, she finally was like, “Actually, I think I do.” And it was a

completely different experience for her working on something that was not in

a restaurant, so she came into our kitchen and she was like she would yell at

me for like walking with a knife and…

Tony Federico: Ah, so like bringing working kitchen kind of skills, like, “Don’t point that

knife at me.”

Hayley Mason: Yes, totally.

Bill Staley: Yes, yes.

Hayley Mason: She would totally get on our case about it and so like we learned stuff from

her and she learned stuff from us and she’s a great food stylist, also, I think.

Just she has that in her, which I think is why she’s so great with sushi, too.

She just has it in her to create beautiful food. And then, we also just, you

know, food styling, the photography and even the recipes – Make it Paleo is a

very basic cookbook and it’s a really great beginner’s cookbook and a lot of

people really love that book because the recipes are so simple.

We made that book in warmer months, so there’s a lot of grilling recipes in

Make it Paleo, which some people didn’t like. Some people were okay with

it, but we wanted to honor that book because Make it Paleo, as much as we’ll

sometimes look back on that book and be like, “Oh, we could do stuff so


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much better now,” that book is so special to us because it changed our entire

lives and really took us to a more professional level with having this little blog

actually be our career. So, we really wanted to honor that first book by

making a sequel for it.

Bill Staley: It’s not a matter of the recipes. It’s a matter of the photos in that book. I’d

really love to redo the photos.

Tony Federico: Ah, so if you could go back and do it all over again, you’d just kind of reshoot

the thing.

Bill Staley: I do want to reshoot a few things.

Tony Federico: Kind of give it an HD remake. I think that that’s a…

Bill Staley: Yes, exactly.

Hayley Mason: Yes, yes. It could probably use a little facelift, but…

Bill Staley: Still a great book, though.

Hayley Mason: But it’s still a great book, yes.

Tony Federico: Now, could you describe a typical work day? I mean, I think one of the things

that is kind of hard for people to imagine that are still doing the 9:00-to-5:00

thing. You go to work. You clock in. You do your thing, come home, boom,

repeat. When you’re really responsible for really everything, all your

successes and all your failures can really just be put back on you, you get up.


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How do you kind of get yourself motivated? What’s your schedule like?

What’s your routine?

Bill Staley: It always varies and I don’t think that’s true of all entrepreneurs, but we get

the most sort of pleasure and productivity out of just being really flexible with

what we do. This sounds so counterintuitive to like the whole model of like

an A-type entrepreneur, but like first thing in the morning, we don’t get up and

like charge out of the gate trying to do everything all at once. We put a really

high priority on sleep. I don’t know how many entrepreneurs think that way,

or are committed to that, but…

Tony Federico: I think how little sleep you get is sort of a badge of kind of honor in most

circles.

Hayley Mason: Our biggest problem is getting to bed earlier. We’ll kind of just keep working

and working and our work schedule changes depending on what’s going on.

Like when we’re making a book, it’s just kind of craziness all day, every day.

Bill Staley: Oh, yes. It’s like ten-hour days, back-to-back-to-back, or longer.

Hayley Mason: And then, editing a book is a beast in itself and so, a project of a book is kind

of its own entity. It’s just kind of like pure craziness. And then, we have other

stuff that we’ll be working on. I mean, there’s always something to do and I

think the biggest problem with working for yourself is that there’s always

something to do. So, you can always be working on something to take

yourself further and for us, we’ve really been trying recently to incorporate a

little more mindfulness with our work schedule. Like trying to change our

sleep schedule and getting to bed earlier and being able to unplug a little bit.


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The last few months, we’ve started leaving our cell phones out in the kitchen

and not having them next to us in bed, just little things like that because you’ll

just run yourself into the ground.

Tony Federico: Right, because in addition to the actual work of photographing recipes and

cooking, there’s the website maintenance. There’s the social media and all

these other aspects where you really could be doing something 24 hours a day

if you let yourself.

Hayley Mason: Yes, you really could.

Bill Staley: Yes. It’s pretty sickening, almost. I mean, I love what we do, but then, we

have put so much emphasis on this lately, it’s like we’re doing all these great

things for our health, but then, like you’re attached to some sort of computer

or phone device like 24/7. Like that’s not healthy at all. We’re definitely

trying to incorporate more of the balancing act of finite work hours and then,

not being in front of screens all evening until midnight every night.

A typical work day, it’s pretty flexible for us, which is great. I think that’s

where we see a lot of value in what we’re doing. I mean, most people sort of

measure their net worth in dollars, but I actually measure in free time and

getting to do the things we want to do. So, like sleep, time to walk the dog or

be outside gardening. We just got chicks, so there’s going to be some

backyard chickens.

Tony Federico: Chickens, correct?


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Hayley Mason: Yes.

Bill Staley: There’s a lot of value in that and just sort of offline time and time to connect

with being outdoors and stuff like that. So, as we get into the warmer months

here, we’re really going to put a lot more emphasis on that.

Tony Federico: Now, talk to me a little bit about some of your favorite recipes in the

cookbook. I want to take a few more minutes to really focus in on Make it

Paleo II. I have a copy here sitting next to me and it’s certainly a gorgeous

book. I haven’t had the opportunity to cook from it yet. What would you

recommend that I make?

Hayley Mason: There’s a lot of really good recipes in Make it Paleo II. I think Bill would

probably say the Dry Rubbed Spareribs.

Tony Federico: I was looking at those.

Bill Staley: Yes.

Tony Federico: They look pretty good.

Hayley Mason: Those are really good. The spice blend that’s on those ribs is also great on

pork chops or chicken wings. We’ve been using that on chicken wings lately.

You could even do it on a whole chicken. It’s just an awesome spice rub. We

both really love the Steamed Dumplings, the Pork Dumplings. My sister

really wanted to make that recipe and I told her it was not possible.


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Tony Federico: Right. Normally there’s, I would imagine, a lot of wheat and not-Paleo stuff

in there.

Hayley Mason: Right. She was like, “I want to make steamed dumplings,” and I was like,

“You’re crazy. That’s not going to happen.” And she was like, “No, really, so,

I’ll make a dough,” and I was like, “Okay.” So, I made this dough, but it

worked out and she did the rest and it is just like, you take one bite into those

steamed dumplings and you think that you ordered them from take-out.

I mean, I’m sure it tastes a little different. I haven’t had steamed dumplings

from a Chinese restaurant in a long time, but the flavors are pretty spot-on.

So, that’s a really fun recipe if you want something that’s a little more like a

treat. It’s a little more involved and it does use a grain-free dough around the

meatballs, so it’s not something that I would consider an everyday food. But

it’s really a fun treat.

Bill Staley: Yes. I love the Honey Sesame Wings, actually like that’s a great sort of

weeknight dinner. I don’t know.

Hayley Mason: The Breakfast Casserole is really yummy if you want a breakfast that you can

kind of make ahead of time and have some quick food for a couple of days.

The Chicken Zoodle Soup, I’ve come a long way with my chicken soup-

making. It was something that I originally learned from my Jewish

grandmother. She taught me to make chicken soup when I was really little

and I’ve kind of changed my recipe over the years and the chicken zoodle

soup is my best chicken soup recipe and it has meatballs in it, which are like

my favorite part, and escarole, which is so good.


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Tony Federico: I just got a spiralizer, so I’ve been playing with the zoodles lately and I think

I’m definitely going to have to give that a shot. I have not done zoodles in a

soup context before, so I’m certainly interested in giving that a shot. I did

want to kind of shout-out a couple of things. I really appreciate this. I don’t

know how Paleo this is. I think this is Paleo enough. In the alcoholic drinks

kind of section of the book, the drink section…

Bill Staley: They’re not all alcoholic. There are a few.

Tony Federico: Right, well, I kind of zeroed in on a couple of them. I’m a huge fan of

Moscow Mules. I think the first one that I had was at the Alamo Draft House

in Austin. I just love it. I’m a ginger-head, so I’ve ordered them in many

different situations since then and you nailed it. You got the copper cup. I

think you even have a homemade ginger beer recipe in here.

Bill Staley: I’m the big like food project guy around here. I love like a little food project

and the ginger beer is a really neat one because it’s a quick ferment, like it

only takes one-to-two days. So, you get instant feedback. It’s not like

kombucha, where you have to wait like a week or two. You know right away

whether or not it worked out for you or not and the fermentation is more for a

little bit of carbonation. It’s not actually for the cultures in it, so to speak. It’s

just more for a little fizziness.

Hayley Mason: The drink section is cool. That was one thing we did different in this book

than, really any of our other books. With Make it Paleo I, we really just did

like basic Paleo, super-clean recipes and then, a bunch of desserts. With Make

it Paleo II, we included some stuff for other people and other interests, so we

have the drink section. We have baked goods, which we have some Savory


2015 Page !20

Things and we have Sweet Things. Those are what the chapters are called.

So, we have some really kind of fun stuff in this book that changes things up

and makes it a little more exciting if people are getting a little bored with their

diets.

The other thing we did with this book that we haven’t done with any of our

other books is we noted which recipes were nightshade-free, egg-free, dairy-

free, and nut-free and then, there’s the chart in the back of the book that kind

of shows you where all of those overlap. So if someone can’t have eggs and

nuts, they can see which recipes don’t contain eggs and nuts and choose from

those.

Tony Federico: Yes. That seems to be a big trend in books recently coming out, have had

some consideration for people who might be following an autoimmune

version of Paleo, and so, we’re seeing kind of more differentiation within the

Paleo life style. It’s not just sort of this cookie-cutter thing. It’s recognizing

that there’s different ways that people do Paleo and some of it’s excluding

nuts and nightshades and things of that nature.

Hayley Mason: Yes, absolutely. It’s so important these days. So many of our followers can’t

have nightshades or they can’t have eggs, so it was definitely really important

to us that we made this book okay for people who have to go a little further

beyond the basics of a Paleo diet.

Tony Federico: Very cool. Well, like I said, it’s a gorgeous book. I like how you guys did sort

of like a little personal quote for a lot of the recipes, so it’s like Bill or Hayley

or your sister kind of saying something about the recipe. I think that kind of

gives it a nice personal touch. Love the food projects. Certainly excited to


2015 Page !21

dive into those. I mean, there’s just a lot of really great looking recipes in

here, so I’m sure that people are going to be talking about it for a long time

and just kind of having fun cooking their way through it, diving into some of

those food projects.

Appreciate you guys coming on the show. I’m starving right now, so I’m

going to start putting together my shopping list. But it’s a pleasure to have

you on Paleo Magazine Radio. I’m sure we’ll have the opportunity to do it

again because I don’t see you guys slowing down or stopping any time soon.

Hayley Mason: Thanks so much. It was really great.

Bill Staley: Yes. Thanks for having us.

Tony Federico: That was Hayley and Bill Staley, authors of Make it Paleo II, available at

bookstores everywhere. Coming up next, Adam Farrah from Big Picture

Paleo. I’m Tony Federico and you are listening to PMR.

{Music}

Tony Federico: All right, everybody. Welcome back to another installment of Big Picture

Paleo with Adam Farrah, author of The Paleo Dieter’s Missing Link. Adam,

welcome back to the show.

Adam Farrah: Thanks, Tony. How are you doing, man?

Tony Federico: I’m doing well. I’m doing well. So, before the bell, before the recording

started we were chatting a little bit and we’re going to toss around a topic that


2015 Page !22

I’m particularly excited about. It’s something that literally changed my life,

but I’m going to let you go ahead and introduce it since it was your idea.

Adam Farrah: Okay. Well, basically I’m rereading The 4-Hour Work Week by Tim Ferriss. I

had read it for the first time back in 2010. It was instrumental in me starting

my blog and writing my first eBook and really getting into the whole Paleo

community and meeting you and getting involved with Paleo Magazine. It’s

specifically interesting because I’m doing a lot of evaluating of what I do with

my time, where my life is going, where my goals are, are these still the things

I want, are there maybe things I don’t want anymore or want in a different

way.

And rereading this book after five years of sort of implementing some of the

advice and coming back to it with like, okay, so I did a bunch of stuff and I

saw what worked. I saw what didn’t work for me and rereading how he

handles things and seeing more depth in it, it’s really amazing to see. So,

that’s been inspiring this first month or so into the new year.

Tony Federico: Now, just for those who aren’t familiar with The 4-Hour Work Week, it’s been

out for quite some time.

Adam Farrah: Yes, 2009, I think, or ’08 it came out.

Tony Federico: Yes, so it was written by Tim Ferriss. He’s done a lot since then. He’s written

other books and I think he’s got a podcast, TV show, probably working on

movies and all sorts of crazy things. But the basic premise of the book, and

the reason why it’s called The 4-Hour Work Week, is that most of your results


2015 Page !23

come from a very small, kind of proportion of your time and energy, so there’s

really just like a lot of wasted and unproductive time in most of our days.

Now, the nature of work in most people’s cases is you show up and you’re

physically present for a specific amount of time and you get paid for that

amount of time. But if you start to peel back and actually see how much of

that time am I being productive, where am I actually contributing, where am I

just killing time, and you kind of work back from there, you can get to this

point where you realize, “Okay. How many hours do I actually need to

work?” And can you leverage that into a type of career or a type of business

or enterprise that allows you to just do that, just work those hours that you’re

productive and then, spend the rest of the time doing really kind of whatever

you want? So, he puts forth different business ideas and whether those are

online businesses or kind of more standard types of operations, they’re all sort

of outlined in this book.

Now, the first time I was actually exposed to The 4-Hour Work Week, I was on

a road trip with a friend who had picked up an audio version of it and so,

we’re driving to North Carolina. My parents have a – well, it was their

vacation cabin at the time and they’ve actually since moved there fulltime.

They’re kind of doing their own 4-hour work week thing. It’s called

retirement.

Adam Farrah: Sleep, save, retire, as Ferriss says.

Tony Federico: They made it, so you’ve got to give them credit.

Adam Farrah: That’s good enough. Hey, listen, they made it. That’s good.


2015 Page !24

Tony Federico: They made it. So, we’re on this long car ride and we’re listening to this book

and I’m listening to this guy talking about all these crazy things that he’s

done. Like you said, kind of calling out people who work just sort of standard

9:00-to-5:00 jobs and just sort of save up and kind of hope for the best and

hope until they can retire and hope they’re still functional enough and with it

enough to be able to even enjoy it.

And my first response was anger. I was p----d. I was like, “Who the heck

does this guy think he is to be saying what he’s saying?” He’s probably

privileged. He’s probably this and that.

Adam Farrah: Yes, actually he grew up with money and (inaudible).

Tony Federico: Right, exactly, so my initial response was, “This dude is a jerk and I don’t

want to hear it.”

Adam Farrah: Right, right.

Tony Federico: I’m just kind of curious. What was your initial response? Obviously I came

around eventually and it has been influential in a huge way and like you said,

it’s why I got into the Paleo world. It’s why I’m doing this podcast today, so I

did eventually come around to it, but I’m just kind of curious what your initial

response was. Were you resistant or were you open to it?

Adam Farrah: I was beyond open to it because I mean, really since I got sick in 2004, so it

was almost ten years by the time I read 4-Hour Work Week. I had had like ten

years of failures and just horrible experiences in anything to do with


2015 Page !25

corporate, anything to do with 9:00-to-5:00, anything to do with like the old

20th century industrial stuff. And so, when I read 4-Hour Work Week, I had

like, my absolute last-ditch effort to make a living with a job. Had gone down

in flames, as crazy as any other experience I had had in the corporate world

and so, I’m just like sacked out on the couch in my parents’ summer house

here and I’m reading this book.

And it’s basically he’s hating on everything that I had also experienced in the

corporate world and I’m like, “Oh, my god. This dude, look at this,” and I

started thinking. How many days did I work 9:00-to-5:00 and do an hour

worth of work? Particularly what fascinated me about him and why it has

translated directly into my Paleo journey is that his whole thing is life style

design, having the experiences that you want to have and even financing these

adventures, or financing these things that you want to go do and how little

money it actually takes to finance these things if we go about them a different

way, as opposed to say, “Okay, well, I’m just going to keep working and save

until I have $20 million and then, I can travel anywhere I want and go

wherever I want.”

It’s like – but if you changed a bunch of things and streamlined what you were

doing and figured out your income from a, “How much money do I need to

live how I want to live?” you could probably live like a millionaire on a lot

less than that and you could do it a lot sooner. So, for me, it’s sort of like,

“Well, I want to train more. I want to write more.” There’s all these things I

want to do.

I can’t do all those plus all these other things, so what do I have to cut out?

Do I have to even check my email every day? Turns out I really don’t. I


2015 Page !26

mean, it’s crazy because you’re checking email five-to-ten times a day and

then, all of a sudden you don’t check it for a day or two and nothing happens.

Tony Federico: The world keeps on spinning.

Adam Farrah: You open it a few days later and there maybe even isn’t anything there. It’s

this totally different way of looking at it and I think it’s all we have left to how

we’re going to look at the world anyway because everything is changing and

if you’re in that 9:00-to-5:00 mindset, I mean, it’s just getting worse and

worse.

Tony Federico: You know, I’ve seen that there’s so much volatility in the job market that the

security that the kind of standard 9:00-to-5:00 model, we’ll just kind of refer

to that as really encompassing any kind of traditional job where you show up

and clock in and do your thing and go home at 5:00, 6:00, 7:00 at night.

There’s so much volatility now that in the past, people could really depend on

having a job, working 20-30 years, getting a pension. That pension’s going to

be funded by new employees coming in. It’s an established company. There’s

just so much volatility, I think, that people aren’t working jobs 20-30 years.

They’re working jobs two or three years and then, moving on.

Adam Farrah: Virtually every company I ever worked for is now out of business. The

biggest job I had as a marketing manager was for the largest distributor of

printing inks in the US. So, how well are printing inks doing in the electronic

age, so yes, I mean, everybody I’ve ever worked for has gone out of business.

So, like Seth Godin says, “Safe is risky and risky is safe.” Getting a job and

showing up and putting your time in is – everybody still kind of thinks it’s the


2015 Page !27

safest thing. It is the absolute most dangerous thing you can do, for your

health, for your finances, for everything.

Tony Federico: Well, and that is exactly why I actually first started my own personal blog. I

wanted something that was going to be more permanent. It was like, you

know what? Whether I’m working the job that I was working at the time, or

any other job—and I’ve had several since—I wanted something that would

follow me, something that as much as I put into it, I’d be getting out of it and

I’ve since kind of moved away from really focusing on my own personal blog

and doing more with Paleo Magazine and some other areas.

But nevertheless, that’s what started this whole process and it has been

something that, as I’ve moved to different areas, I sort of have this online

career that I’m able to develop really on my own terms. I get as much out of

it as I put into it. It’s led to opportunities to travel and do the things that I

never would have imagined possible or even feasible.

And it’s been awesome and it’s directly linked to the thought process that I

gained from reading Tim Ferriss’ book, so it’s certainly something that I

would recommend anybody read and if you have read it, like you’re saying,

hey, bring it out every couple of years and reread it.

Adam Farrah: Yes, yes. I did this big diagram of my business and I saw the areas that

needed to improve. I saw the areas maybe I didn’t even need to put time into

anymore and I said, “Oh, this is 4-Hour Work Week. I’ve got to read that

again,” and yes, sure enough. I think that we’re already living these

alternative life styles with the food and trying to go to bed at a decent hour


2015 Page !28

and maybe limiting digital stimulation and all this other stuff. So, we’re

already living these wacky, alternative life styles anyway.

I think if you can make your handling of email alternative and make the way

you earn your money alternative and not geographically-sensitive – I have a

friend who’s now – I knew him years ago and now, he’s living in Brazil and

doing the digital nomad thing, as they call it. Just you’ve got an online

business and yes, I really feel like if we’re really after these kind of wacky,

alternative life styles and we really want to live exceptionally, then we have to

look at these ideas. I’ve had people that I’ve coached on the phone and you

can just tell they’re really never going to get where they want to go with the

life style they’re living.

Tony Federico: Yes. The standard American diet and then, really, you’ve got the standard

American life, so if you’re going to get rid of the standard American diet,

maybe you should reevaluate the standard American life of you kind of doing

just what you’ve assumed you had to do. There might be some areas – and

you know, one thing I think is worth saying is The 4-Hour Work Week isn’t

necessarily even saying that you have to quit your job and just sort of strike

out on an entrepreneurial path.

Even within the context of a 9:00-to-5:00 job, what are you doing with your

free time? How productive are you with that? Could you be building an

alternative career in your free time that ultimately can kind of eliminate the

need to have the regular job?

I think that’s part of what made me so resistant at first is I thought it was an

either/or proposition, which I found offensive just because I couldn’t see a


2015 Page !29

way out of my situation. But once I understood that it’s more of a shades of

grey and a progression, that wherever you are—almost like Paleo—wherever

you are, you can make it better. So, here are some options and he really lays

them all out. So, yes, for anyone who’s listening, you’ve got to get this book,

man. I’m glad you brought it up, dude. I’m going to blow the dust off of my

copy, bring it back.

Adam Farrah: Yes, definitely. I think it’s something we all should be paying attention to and

I think there’s enough stuff in there that it doesn’t matter where you are or sort

of – you might have a regular job that you love, but there’s still stuff in there

that could help you at least get more leverage and get more done in your job.

Tony Federico: Exactly, exactly. Something for everybody in The 4-Hour Work Week.

Adam Farrah: Yes, absolutely.

Tony Federico: Awesome. Thank you for bringing that up, Adam. I appreciate the reminder

to work smarter, not necessarily harder. Maybe even not work at all. Maybe

just to life passionately and that’s kind of the thing. But yes, appreciate you

bringing that up, man, and hope you have a wonderful day.

Adam Farrah: Yes, you, too, Tony. Thanks.

Tony Federico: All right, Paleo Magazine nation, that’s going to do it for today’s episode.

Next time on the podcast, I’m going to have a chat about hunting with Charles

Mayfield, co-author of Paleo Comfort Foods, Crossfit gym owner and avid

hunter. I’m Tony Federico and on behalf of everyone at Paleo Magazine,

thank you for listening.


2015 Page !30

{Music}

Host: If you would like to share your story on PMR, please visit our Facebook page

at Facebook.com/paleomagazine. For full transcripts of the show, as well as

exclusive online content, go to our web page, PaleoMagOnline.com. You can

also talk to us on Twitter at #PMRadio.

THE END

Podcast Episode 75 2015 - paleomagonline.com€¦ · doing the HCG diet and for people who don’t...

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Transcript of Podcast Episode 75 2015 - paleomagonline.com€¦ · doing the HCG diet and for people who don’t...