OPENING COMMENTS –CLOSED - Performance … · Web viewThe number of requests for Task Group...

HEAT TREATINGOCTOBER 2017

CONFIRMED

CONFIRMED MINUTESOCTOBER 23-26, 2017

PITTSBURGH, PENNSYLVANIA, UNITED STATES

These minutes are not final until confirmed by the Task Group in writing or by vote at a subsequent meeting. Information herein does not constitute a communication or recommendation from the Task Group and shall not be considered as such by any agency.

MONDAY, 23-OCT-2017 to THURSDAY, 26-OCT-2017

1.0 OPENING COMMENTS –CLOSED

1.1 Call to Order / Quorum Check

The Heat Treating (HT) Task Group (HTTG) meeting was called to order at 8:00 a.m., 23-Oct-2017.

It was verified that only SUBSCRIBER MEMBERS were in attendance during the closed portion of the meeting.

A quorum was established with the following representatives in attendance:

Subscriber Members/Participants Present (* Indicates Voting Member)

NAME COMPANY NAME* Pedro Aranda Eaton, Aerospace Group* Nigel Ashby GKN Aerospace* Carolyn Backus The Boeing Company

Lenora Bennett BAE Systems* Christopher Borg Gulfstream Aerospace Corp.

Roger Bourland Hill AFBWang Cheng COMAC

* Craig Clasper Spirit AeroSystems* Martin Day Honeywell Aerospace

Alexander Diskin IAI - Israel Aerospace Industries* Mark Emerson Rolls-Royce* Chikkala Eswara Naidu Honeywell Aerospace* Melissa Facas Pratt & Whitney

Christian Filion Gulfstream Aerospace Corp.* Ron Galley GE Aviation* Laurent Geerts SONACA

Moses Greasham Spirit AeroSystemsJason Haley Triumph Group

* Peter Hammarbo GKN Aerospace Sweden AB* Brian Harvey Gulfstream Aerospace Corp.* Dave Isenberg Parker Aerospace Group

Jonathan Kahl Triumph GroupRickie Kiser Spirit AeroSystemsRyan Kisling Textron Aviation

* David Knack Eaton, Aerospace Group* Takuya Konno Mitsubishi Heavy Industries* Jeff Koss The Boeing Company* Serge Labbé Héroux-Devtek Inc.

Caroline LeClair 309th Maintenance Wing-Hill AFB


CONFIRMED

* Marc-André Lefebvre Héroux-Devtek Inc.Bruno Lemaire SAFRAN GroupAndrew Leslie BAE Systems

* Hongping Li COMAC* William Macias UTC Aerospace (Goodrich)* Doug Matson Boeing

Andrew Maximiuk GE Aviation* John Merritt Sikorsky (Lockheed Martin Corp.)

Martin Miller Héroux-DevtekNoah Miller Triumph Group

* Tim Nance Rockwell CollinsMark Nigels Parker Hannifin

* Tom Norris UTC Aerospace (Goodrich) Chairperson* Eddy Pham Northrop Grumman Corp.* Earl Pruett Lockheed Martin Corp.* Sunder Rajan Raytheon Company Secretary* Alexandre Richez Airbus SAS --- AAPOE* Salvatore Santangelo UTC Aerospace (Hamilton Sundstrand)

Simon Scott BAE Systems (MAI) UKYuichi Sugiyama Mitsubishi Heavy IndustriesStanley Trull Honeywell Aerospace

* Cyril Vernault SAFRAN Group Vice ChairpersonScott Weyburn Hill Air Force BaseBarbara Wilson Triumph Group

* Grzegorz Wryk Rolls-Royce* Mark Zelle Pratt & Whitney

Other Members/Participants Present (* Indicates Voting Member)

NAME COMPANY NAME* Roy Adkins Braddock Metallurgical* Mark Affolter Bodycote

Zubair Alam Exactatherm LtdSiobhan Alekna Bristol IndustriesVincent Antonypillai Lisiaerospace.comAllen Archer Stack Metallurgical ServicesChavez Arturo Tighitco LatinoamericaRebecca Aspinwall Applied Thermal Technologies, Inc.

* Amy Azzano RexnordRob Balizet Canton Drop ForgeIsrael Barragan FRISA FORJADOSAndrew Bassett Aerospace Testing & Pyrometry, Inc.Jennifer Bendle Specialty Steel Treating, Inc.Paul Blaisdell Astro Aluminum Treating Co., Inc.Nick Bradley Spectrum Thermal Processing

* Noel Brady Paulo - ClevelandTim Brooks Advanced Integration TechnologyDennis Burkes Winston Heat TreatingGregory Busey Stack Metallurgical ServicesDonald Camus Carpenter-Hartsville


CONFIRMED

Ramachandra Canumalla Weldaloy Products Co.Arvid Casler Northstar AerospaceMark Cavanaugh Larson ForgeJeffrey Cerbie Charles E. Larson & SonsJason Chernick HTG/HiTech AeroJean-Francois Chevalier LISI-AEROSPACEFrancisco Contreras Gastelum Ellison Surface Technologies Mexico

* Kennia Corona Brazonics Inc.* Joshua Crockett Ellison Surface Technologies

Grisell Cruz LMI Aerospace* Tammy Davis Aurora Flight Sciences* Vicki Delaney Haynes International

Jeff DeToffol Heat Treating Services UnlimitedLyn Dimaranan Brampton ProcessingRoger Dunn Bodycote

* Edward Engelhard Solar Atmospheres, Inc* Bob Ferry FPM HEAT TREATING

TJ Fitzmaurice TSI TitaniumJose Fuentes VAC AeroChad Funderburk MMS Thermal Processing

* Michael Gaspers FPM HeatTreatingSusan Generalovich Solar Atmospheres of Western PA Inc.Lisa Golden Metallurgical Processing Inc

* Jonathan Gonzalez Solar AtmospheresRudolf Graf Böhler Schmiedetechnik GmbH & Co KGJustin Grice Braddock MetallurgicalHugo Guajardo FRISAScott Hasty LMI Aerospace, Inc.Nancy Henchey New England Heat Treat ServicesBrian Hill Canton Drop Forge

* Kevin Hineman ATI Flat Rolled Products* Andrew Hopkins Delta Air Lines

Jason Jackson Gamma Aerospace LLCWEIWEI JIAN NATIONAL RIVET & MANUFACTURING CODoug Johnson Applied Thermal Technologies, Inc.Jamie Jones Solar AtmosphereKurt Jungheim Modern Forge IndianaAdeel Karim Doctor Furnace, Inc.Katy Katona Larson ForgingsMichael Kelley Leed Thermal Processing

* Alexander Klyuch Blades Technology LtdMatt Knauff Solar Atmosphere

* John Kunkle Arconic Power and Propulsion / HowmetJames LaFollette GeoCorp, Inc.Greg Lane Accurate Brazing

* Shelly Lawless Meyer Tool, Inc.* Jeremy Leetz MMS Thermal Processing* Johanna Lisa Continental Heat Treating/Quality Heat

Treating


CONFIRMED

John Ludeman Advanced Heat TreatConnie Mackey Advanced Heat Treat Corp

* Rich Madsen Blanchard Metals ProcessingSarah Mansuetti Rex Heat TreatMike Martinez Sierra AlloysGiuseppe Marzano Magellan Aerospace, HaleyCraig McClellan Vac-MetChristopher Mesker PCC Structurals Inc.Adam Miller Carpenter Technology Corp.Tim Mitchell Metal Finishing CompanyAnne Pascale Moiroux Aubert DuvalJeff Neer Astro Aluminum Treating Co., Inc.

* Ken Nelson Continental Heat TreatingVan Nguyen VAC Aero InternationalGretta Novean Magellan Aerospace MiddletownBob Olevson VeridiamJean Carlo Orozco LMI aerospace

* Joe Rico Osequera Newton Heat TreatingMarcus Owens Timken

* Timothy Paradise Metallurgical Processing IncBrad Peiffer Carpenter TechnologyKarina Pérez FRISA FORJADOSRobert Peters RPeters Consulting, LLC.Christopher Pietszak Applied ProcessNels Plough Stack Metallurgical Services, Inc.

* Francesco Pontone Leonardo Divisione AerostruttureScott Porter Johnson Gage and Inspection, Inc.

* G.R. Porterfield III Solar Atmospheres, Inc.* John Quaglia Bennett Heat Treating* Barry Rafan Dunkirk Specialty Steel (USAP)

Tee Rassieur PauloChris Reed Ducommun

* Brian Reynolds Arconic* Ed Rivera Metallurgical Processing Inc.

Yesenia Romero Aluminum Precision ProductsJohn Rothenberger Carpenter Technology Corp.Dulce Sanchez Hi-Tech Metal Finishing

* Bob Sartori Accurate Brazing CTCarol Schmidt ATI Specialty MaterialsJohn Schmitt ATI Forged ProductsDaniel Segert General Dynamics-OTS

* Kevin Seidel Dunkirk Specialty Steel / Universal Stainless - Dunkirk

Paul Sihelnik Timken AerospaceBrian Silvers Heat treating services unlimitedChad Simpson Paulo Products

* Jeffrey Sipf Haynes International, Inc.Marcia Slifka PauloKlaus Sommerauer Böhler Schmiedetechnik GmbH & Co KG


CONFIRMED

Torii Sweeney-Morehouse

Wall Colmonoy Aerobraze

* Allison Tackett Specialty Steel Treating, Inc.Gregg Temple Winston Heat TreatingNancy Ten Eyck Arconic

* Russell Tischer TECT PowerNatia Turmanidze ArconicDonnie Vierling Byron Products

* Kevin VonScio Perryman CompanyDennis Wang Nitrex NevadaGreg Waskovich Accurate BrazingTakamitsu Watanabe IHI Corporation

* Wilfried Weber PFW Aerospace GmbHWilliam White Universal Alloy CorporationBryon White Pressure Technology IncLucia Yanez Newton Heat TreatingBrian Yazumbek Modern Forge Indiana

PRI Staff Present

Marcel CupermanMark BurvalRobert HoethAnne Allen – PRI Reviewer

1.2 Safety Information

1.3 Review Code of Ethics (Ref: Attendees’ Guide) and Meeting Conduct

1.4 Present the Antitrust Video

1.5 Review Agenda

2.0 REVIEW DELEGATION STATUS –CLOSED

Staff Engineers Delegation, review of t-frm-07.

Delegation data was reviewed – All reviewers met requirements in OP 1115 for maintaining delegation (≥ 10% Oversight, ≥ 90%concurrence, ≥ 10 audits reviewed in the last 12 months).

Motion made by Mark Emerson and seconded by Tom Norris to continue to delegate Anne Allen. Motion Passed; Delegation Maintained.

Motion made by Tom Norris and seconded by Cyril Vernault to continue to delegate Jerry Aston. Motion Passed; Delegation Maintained.

Motion made by Tom Norris and seconded by Doug Matson to continue to delegate Marcel Cuperman. Motion Passed; Delegation Maintained.

Motion made by Doug Matson and seconded by Tom Norris to continue to delegate Mark Burval. Motion Passed; Delegation Maintained.

Motion made by Sunder Rajan and seconded by Cyril Vernault to continue to delegate Rob Hoeth. Motion Passed; Delegation Maintained.


CONFIRMED

The number of requests for Task Group Resolution requested by the staff engineer was reviewed. One Staff Engineer (SE) had (2) and another had (6) over a 12-month period. Agreed to review this with the Staff Engineer on Thursday 26-Oct-2017 (Closed meeting) – SE was not available on Thursday 26-Oct-2017.

3.0 AUDITOR CONSISTENCY – CLOSED

The standard data set was presented by Marcel Cuperman, along with the traditional +/- 4 data report.

The weighted auditor score (rating) was reviewed.

Tabled Subject: The list of auditors that need to be observed is to be reviewed on Thursday 26-Oct-2017. Staff Engineers to forward to the HT Task Group, the auditors who are at the top of the list for needing observation.

Tabled Item: Staff Engineers will share with the HTTG on Thursday 26-Oct-2017 what Chemical Processing (CP) is doing with regards to auditor ratings.

Auditors with Trainer Designation discussed.

The list of trainers in the United States, Europe and Asia was presented by Staff Engineers. The score (rating) of the trainers was reviewed along with their suitability (persons noted by PRI Staff Engineers) to be trainers.

The rules for selection of “trainer” auditors were proposed by Cyril Vernault.

Position in rating (Positive).

Number of audits performed (may be 20 or 30).

Attitude (no negative feedback from Auditor or Suppliers).

Training Experience.

Using the above criteria, 14 auditors were selected as “Training Auditors” who will be used by PRI Staff Engineers to train new auditors. If there is a problem with finding a training auditor in a different sector (Europe or Asia) the PRI Staff should arrange to send an acceptable Training Auditor from the list.

4.0 AUDITOR OBSERVATIONS – CLOSED

There were four Auditor Observation forms reviewed for the observations conducted since the June 2017 Nadcap Meeting in Berlin, Germany. Observer and supplier feedback were presented.

An Auditor, who was observed by a HTTG member, had a negative rating. This Auditor is scheduled for another observation audit by the end of this year 2017. There is a discussion on whether there needs to be some action taken now or whether the HTTG needs to wait until the next observation is completed.

Cyril Vernault made a motion – seconded by Mark Emerson - to continue with this auditor until the next observation audit is completed and then based on that feedback, the HTTG will determine if any actions are needed.

Motion passed 18 to 1.

This will be discussed again on Thursday 26-Oct-2017 (Auditor Observation Allocation). Staff Engineers will have a list of new Auditors as well.


CONFIRMED

5.0 AUDITOR CONFERENCE REPORT OUT – CLOSED

The proceedings from the day and a half Auditor Conference were reviewed. The Pyrometry Instrument Calibration Template developed by HTSTSTG was discussed at length. The discussion was about how the auditors received the template.

It was suggested that PRI Staff Engineer will send a “Feedback Request” to all auditors who attended the conference. The purpose of the request is to determine how the Auditors felt the conference went. Did it help them? What would the Auditors like to see in the next conference? No further action was taken.

6.0 GOOGLE CHAT SUBJECTS AND DISCUSSION – CLOSED

A summary of Google Chat subjects was presented by Marcel Cuperman. It was agreed that each subject / question will be reviewed in the closed HTTG Meeting. Once agreement is reached by the HTTG, the subject and the decision will be posted to HTTG Google Chat. Subjects that require additional work by the HTTG will be noted in the minutes.

1. Question on AMS 2750 3.5.10.1 for heat sinks for load T/C. and FAQ43. Response consensus of the team: This issue was addressed in a previous meeting and HTTG Vice Chairperson Cyril Vernault wrote an advisory. This advisory is still open.

Motion made by HTTG Secretary Sunder Rajan and seconded by HTTG Chairperson Tom Norris that the advisory prepared and presented by Cyril Vernault be adopted and previous advisories on this subject be listed and cancelled. Motion passed 18 to 0.

ACTION ITEM: Documented in section 45.0

2. Is ASTM E384-16 Para 1.1.1 Annex A1 and ASTM E92-16 for indentation microhardness addressed in AC7101/4 or AC7102/5? Response consensus: AC7101/4 addresses requirements of the ASTM E-384. AC7102/5 addresses requirements of the ASTM E-92.

3. AMS2750 section 3.5.6.1 TUS frequency. Clarification of once every calendar year. Response consensus: It is one year (i.e. Within 365 days from prior TUS; not Jan 1st to Dec 31st). It will be clarified in the next revision of AMS 2750.

4. ASTM E140 reporting of hardness numbers. What is the correct reporting procedure: The C of C from the Supplier or the log sheet of data from the Supplier’s inspector? Response consensus: Both are required.

7.0 FAILURE ANALYSIS & VCA DATA – CLOSED

Data presented by PRI Staff Engineer. Number of audits growing from 800 (in 2013) to over 1000 by 2017. From 2016 to 2017 there was an increase of 0.3% of failed audits.

VCA by sector - 9 VCA so far in 2017 (8 in United States sector and 1 in European sector). No audits failed thus far due to VCA in 2017. In contrast, during the entire year of 2016, there were 16 VCAs in the United States sector and 2 in the European sector.

8.0 APPEAL ANALYSIS & POSSIBLE APPEALS – CLOSED

There was a total of 8 appeals in 2017 of which 4 accepted, 3 denied and 1 withdrawal.

Details of the appeals: 2 raised for Merit and 6 for Failure.

9.0 AUDIT ALLOCATION – CLOSED

Audit Allocation was conducted by those in attendance. As is typically done, the remaining allocations to be populated and sent out by HTTG Secretary Sunder Rajan,.


CONFIRMED

10.0 LAPSED ACCREDITATION – CLOSED

Suppliers that had lapsed accreditation in the October 2017 quarter were presented to HTTG. The HTTG agreed to the extensions suggested by the PRI Staff Engineers for these audits.

11.0 TASK GROUP CHAIR – CLOSED

Succession planning discussed for the Chairperson. Tom Norris thanked the HTTG for their support and informed them that it’s time for him to step down. As stated in PD 1100, the incoming Chairperson shall hold the position for a 3 year term – October 2017 – October 2020.

Chairperson: Cyril Vernault will take over as Chairperson in February 2018.

Vice Chairperson: To be elected in at the February 2018 Nadcap Meeting in Madrid, Spain. At this time, only Mark Emerson has asked to be a candidate. The PRI Staff Engineer will send an e-mail to the HTTG Subscriber Voting Members (UVM) asking if anyone else would like to be considered for this position.

12.0 MTL MOU’S – CLOSED

The HTTG will present the latest understanding to the Nadcap Management Council (NMC).

Following this presentation, th HTTG can request a determination from the NMC whether we can proceed with our own checklist.

Motion: Earl Pruett made a motion not to go on the current path and continue to restructure our vision/expectation of the Memorandum of Understanding (MOU).

Seconded by Cyril Vernault.

Motion passed.

Closed meeting adjourned for Monday, 23-Oct-2017.

13.0 AC7102/S ISSUES – CLOSED – There was nothing to report under this item.

14.0 HT-STSTG – OPEN

Suppliers, PRI Staff Engineers and some Subscribers participated in the two hour meeting presided by Wilfried Weber. There was discussion regarding the Pyrometry testing templates for Alternate SAT and SAT.

15.0 TASK GROUP TUTORIAL – OPEN

Marcel Cuperman presented the Task Group Tutorial.

16.0 JUNE 2017 MEETING MINUTES – OPEN

The June 2017 HT Minutes main topics were reviewed by the HTTG Chairperson – Tom Norris.

Motion made by Mark Emerson and seconded by Cyril Vernault to accept the HTMinutesJune2017UNCONFIRMED meeting minutes as written. Motion Passed.

17.0 CLOSED MEETING REPORT OUT – OPEN

Closed meeting items from Monday, 23-Oct-2017 were reviewed by the HTTG Chairperson – Tom Norris. There was discussion of the activities from the Auditor Conference . The importance of identifying and utilizing any opportunity to communicate and train auditors was emphasized.


CONFIRMED

18.0 RAIL REVIEW – OPEN

The RAIL was reviewed. It is posted in eAuditNet under Resources > Documents > Public Documents > Heat Treating.

The RAIL was reviewed by the PRI Staff Engineers.

19.0 OP 1117 AUDITOR CONSISTENCY SUB-TEAM UPDATE – OPEN

HTTG Vice Chairperson Cyril Vernault presented the update. No sub-team meeting occurred since the June 2017 Nadcap Meeting in Berlin, Germany. The details and importance of the “Observation Audit” procedure was reviewed.

20.0 AC7102/2 Rev D Comments - OPEN

Paragraphs 16.8.2 and 16.8.4 comments from the HTTG Members were reviewed. The comments requesting change were considered to be non-persuasive.

Motion made by Doug Matson and Seconded by Mark Emerson to leave the remaining questions “as is”, (as they were balloted). Motion passed.

21.0 DISCUSSION OF INITIAL RESULTS OF ALTERNATE SAT PILOT – OPEN

The presentation of the status of the Alternate SAT Pilot was made by PRI Staff Engineer Mark Burval. At this time the Alternate SAT is not considered ready for a Pilot Phase. The presentation was continued in the afternoon session by HTTG member Wilfried Weber.

22.0 PRESENTATION OF HT-STSTG STANDARD SAT FORM TEMPLATE – OPEN

The afternoon session started with the presentation of the status of the Alternate SAT form and the SAT, by Wilfried Weber.

Instrument Calibration forms will be posted in eAuditNet by the middle of November 2017. Suppliers are reminded that use of these forms is not mandatory; they are being posted for supplier reference and optional use.

23.0 TBD – OPEN

No item discussed.

24.0 HT-STSTG REPORT OUT – OPEN

Presented by HTTG member Wilfried Weber. There was a large attendance of about 50 Suppliers. The Calibration Form and Instructions for use will be posted in eAuditnet.

25.0 AUDITOR ADVISORIES – OPEN

New Auditor Advisories were reviewed. Proposals for new advisories or new revisions were also reviewed.

Advisory HT-17-006 (Original Advisory 16-002) was explained. Integrated Digital Control and Recording System may have a single value for displayed and recorded value of the readings

Proposed HT-17-XXX . Calibration of Instruments outside of the operating range. After discussion, a slight clarification was made to the advisory (Requirement Section) that in addition to the controller, recorder and monitor associated thermocouples shall be calibrated at additional temperatures. The calibration of the furnace instruments and associated thermocouples shall be in accordance with AMS2750.


CONFIRMED

Considerable discussion on whether this additional calibration procedure is required as a standard practice. Is this a requirement only when there is engineering flow down as stated in the advisory? A point was made to include a statement that “If a Subscriber flows down compliance to AMS 2750 as the requirement, this advisory does not apply”.

The above should be the case even if some industry standards refer to temperatures such as monitoring Quench Delay in AMS2770 which may be outside of the operating range.

Discussion questioned if this should be turned into a Slash Sheet ( /S) (Prime Specific) checklist issue?

This advisory has been tabled pending resolution of the various concerns expressed.

Motion made by Cyril Vernault and seconded by Tom Norris to decide whether we need to rewrite this advisory. Motion withdrawn by Cyril and tabled for closed meeting on Thursday 26-Oct-2017.

26.0 REVIEW OF AC7140 MMM AUDIT HANDBOOK (PAGE 3) MATRIX FOR CONSIDERATION OF USE BY HTTG – OPEN

The Matrix from the MMM Handbook that would correlate check list questions with subscriber specifications was presented by the HTTG Chairperson Tom Norris. No Action was taken.

27.0 HTTG PYROMETRY GUIDE UPDATE – OPEN

Pyrometry Guide update is slated for the next year - 2018. Need to clarify and update the FAQs and proper reference to Advisories. No further action was taken.

28.0 TBD – OPEN

No item discussed.

29.0 REVIEW OF DRAFT AUDIT OBSERVATION GUIDANCE TO BE CONSIDERED FOR ADDITION TO HT OBSERVATION FORM APPENDIX – OPEN

The Audit Observation guide was presented by HTTG member Doug Matson.

A question was asked by a Supplier: If the observer records findings missed by the Nadcap Auditor, will they be available for another auditor for review? Answer: No.

(Note: The initial response during the meeting was Yes, but it has been determined that the system does not allow the next auditor to see the observation report).

The observer feedback item triggered several questions from the Suppliers regarding their feedback of the audit and whether that information has been used. The issues were discussed.

30.0 DISCUSSION OF HTTG CONSIDERING ADOPTION OF THE CHEMICAL PROCESSING “BEST PRACTICE” REQUIRING SUPPLIERS’ SUBMISSION OF HT SITE/EQUIPMENT MAP PRIOR TO AUDIT – Open

This item was not discussed, as there was no support from the Subscribers when reviewed in closed session.

31.0 SSC PRESENTATION – OPEN

HTTG member Roy Adkins presented the SSC Activities.

32.0 VOTING MEMBER PARTICIPATION – OPEN

There are 31 Supplier Voting Members and some companies have alternate representation.


CONFIRMED

A supplier voting member has not participated in voting and is violating requirements. This was brought to attention – Company Canagrosa; members Pedro de la Lastra and Fernando Alarcon de la Lastra. This membership has been removed due to non-participation.

The following requests for additions or changes to voting membership were received and confirmed by the HTTG Chairperson pending verification of PD 1100 requirements:

Subscriber Voting Member: UVM Supplier Voting Member: SVM Alternate: ALT Task Group Chairperson: CHR Vice Chairperson: VCH Secretary: SEC

New Voting Members:

First Name

Surname Company Position:

(new / updated role)

Meetings Attended(Month/Year)

Amy Azzano Rexnord Supplier Voting Member (*SVM) (New)

Oct-2016 Feb-2017

Noel Brady Paulo – Cleveland

Supplier Voting Member (*SVM) (New)

Oct-2016 Oct-2017

Kennia Corona Brazonics Inc. Supplier Voting Member (*SVM) (New)

Oct-2016 Oct-2017

Tammy Davis Aurora Flight Sciences


Oct-2016 Oct-2017

Alexander Diskin Israel Aerospace Industries

Subscriber Alternate Voting Member (*ALT UVM) (New)

Feb-2017 Oct-2017

Ron Galley GE Aviation Subscriber Voting Member (*UVM) (New)

Jun-2017 Oct-2017

Michael Gaspers FPM Heat Treating

Supplier Alternate Voting Member (*ALT SVM) (New)

Oct-2015 Oct-2017

Kevin Hineman ATI Flat Rolled Products


Feb-2017 Oct-2017

Shelly Lawless Meyer Tool Inc.

Supplier Voting Member(*UVM) (New)

Oct-2015 Oct-2017


CONFIRMED

Chikkala Eswara

Naidu Honeywell Aerospace

Alternate Subscriber Voting Member (*ALT UVM) (New)

Jun-2017 Oct-2017

Joe Rico Osequera Newton Heat Treating


Oct-2016 Oct-2017

Francesco Pontone Leonardo Divisione Aerostructture

Suppler Voting Member (*SVM) (New)

Jun-2017 Oct-2017

John Quaglia Bennett Heat Treating & Brazing


Oct-2016 Oct-2017

Eduardo Rivera Metallurgical Processing Inc.

Alternate Supplier Voting Member (*ATL SVM) (New)

Oct-2015 Oct-2017

Robert Sartori Accurate Brazing


Oct-2016 Oct-2017

Paul Sihelnik Timken Aerospace

Supplier Member (New – No Voting Rights)

Oct-2017 None

Chad Simpson Paulo Supplier Member (New - No Voting Rights)

Oct-2017 None

Marcia Slifka Paulo Supplier Member (New – No Voting Rights)

Oct-2017

Russ Tischer Tect Power Supplier Voting Member (*SVM) (New)

Feb-2017 Oct-2017

Voting Membership Removed: The following people had their voting membership removed due to not meeting requirements

First Name Surname Company Ballot Response Met (Y/N)

Meeting Attendance Met (Y/N)

Pedro De la Lastra Canagrosa Lab & Services

N N

Fernando Alarcon

De la Lastra Canagrosa Lab & Services

N N


CONFIRMED

Changes to Voting Memberships Since the Last Meeting:

First Name Surname Company Position:

(new / updated role)

John Merritt Sikorsky (Lockheed Martin)

Subscriber Voting Member (*UVM) (Updated)

Cyril Vernault SAFRAN Group HTTG Chairperson (*UVM) (Updated)

Chad Simpson (Paulo) attended the February 2017 Nadcap Meeting in New Orleans, Louisiana, USA, however, C. Simpson did not sign the main HTTG sign-in sheets. C. Simpson will need to attend one more Nadcap meeting before receiving HTTG voting rights.

33.0 FAILURE ANALYSIS & VCA DATA – OPEN

Data presented by PRI Staff Engineer. Number of audits growing from 800 (in 2013) to over 1000 by 2017. From 2016 to 2017 there was an increase of 0.3% of failed audits.

Verification of Corrective Action audits (VCA) by sector - 9 VCA so far in 2017 (8 in United States sector and 1 in Europe sector). No audits failed thus far due to VCA in 2017. In contrast, during the entire year of 2016, there were 16 VCAs in United States sector and 2 in Europe sector.

34.0 SSC REPORT OUT – OPEN

Activities of the SSC were reported by HTTG member Roy Adkins. The role of the SSC was described. Details of the mentoring program were described. Business Development Tools and ways to promote Nadcap Accreditation were reviewed. Supplier Survey, Auditee Communications Kit, SSC Request Form (for suggestions or complaints ) were also described. Technical questions can also be brought up at the Wednesday 25-Oct-2017 Afternoon Q&A Session. There is a box provided where any question can be put to the HTTG by a slip of paper. These questions from the box will be addressed at the Q&A Session on Wednesday Afternoon 25-Oct-2017.

SSC held a meeting on Tuesday 24-Oct-2017 as mentioned at the open meeting on Tuesday 24-Oct-2017.

35.0 AMEC REPORT OUT – OPEN

Doug Matson debriefed the attendees on updates of Aerospace Metals Engineering Committee (AMEC) activities on revision status of AMS Material Specification. General Agreement Ballot (GA E17-AB). AS6279A – Standard Practice for Production , Distribution and Procurement of Metal Stock – to mitigate against material alteration/substitution, or Counterfeit Materials. Status of AMS2759 and its slash sheets as well as AMS2769 revision status were presented. Most of the AMS2759 slash sheets are due for release early next year (2018).

A ballot is open addressing a significant revision of AMS2770. It incorporates reference to AMS2658 (hardness and conductivity). Other specifications being worked on include AMS2801 (Heat Treatment of Titanium Parts), AMS3025 (Glycol Quenchant) and ARP1917 - Clarification of terms used in Aerospace Metals Specifications.

ASTM E28.06 Portable Hardness Testers – Portable testers must meet all of the requirements of Stationary testers, including the direct verification. The impasse seems to be between the


CONFIRMED

Aerospace group which favors the United States portion of this procedure and the Oil & Gas Industry which is reluctant to grant blanket approval for use of portable hardness testers.

36.0 PLANNING & OPS MEETING REPORT OUT – OPEN

Cyril Vernault presented the report from the Planning and Ops meeting. A Status of OP1117 concerning Subscriber Observations was presented and will be addressed in the closed meeting on Thursday 26-Oct-2017.

Recommendations are being considered for suppliers to declare Subscriber customers/end-users for whom they are approved. Suppliers expressed the difficulty in tracking the Subscriber for a given PO since there are subcontractors involved.

The issue of HT- Materials Testing Laboratories (MTL) MOU was presented with the issue of Job Tracking for Material Testing with Job Audits as the focal point. No NMC agreement was obtained during the meeting. No Motion was made nor any action taken.

37.0 OPEN MEETING NEW BUSINESS – OPEN

Mark Burval requested approval to become a Heat Treating Auditor. Mark requested a waiver from having to go through a HTTG interview or having to go through T1 training audits. Mark stated that he has been on three observation audits.

Motion made by Mark Emerson: Accommodate Mark’s request for waiver for interview and no additional training except for one T1 audit and one T2 audit.

Motion was Seconded by Cyril Vernault.

Motion passed.

38.0 OPEN MEETING TABLED SUBJECTS – OPEN

Discussion of the Audit Advisory regarding calibration of instruments and associated thermocouples outside of the qualified range. Please see Agenda Item 25 for additional details. Further discussion was held, and the item was tabled again for discussion in the closed meeting on Thursday 26-Oct-2017.

WORKSHOPS:

39.0 HONEYWELL REQUIREMENTS OVERVIEW – OPEN

Honeywell requirements flow down was presented by HTTG Member Chikkla Naidu.

40.0 GKN SWEDEN SPECIFICATIONS REVIEW – OPEN

The review of the subscriber specifications was made by HTTG Member Peter Hammarbo.

41.0 BRAZING SPECIFICATIONS UPDATES – OPEN

AWS Brazing Specification Activities’ status was reported by HTTG Secretary Sunder Rajan. Sunder also described the main features of the soon to be released AWS C3.14 Standard for Evaluation of Brazed Joints using visual and metallographic techniques.

42.0 Q & A SESSION – OPEN

Q1: Regarding Auditor Consistency and Observed Audits; the quantity of NCRs between “observed” and “non-observed audits”? Is there a trend?

A: We have not seen an increase in the number of NCR’s between observed and non-observed audits. We do not have an increase in failure as a result of observation.


CONFIRMED

ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to gather data on NCR’s and failures (if any) comparing observed and non-observed audits at the same company. (Due Date: 1-Feb-2018)

Q2: Is there a tendency among auditors to adjust the number of NCR’s if they see close to the +/- 4 threshold?

A: Auditors seem set in their ways and this should not be a concern based on current observations.

Q3: AC7101/4 or AC7102/ 5 Hardness Test Methodology . Which is to use? See response to Google Chat Question.

A: Macrohardness(AC7102/5) vs Microhardness used in AC7101/4.

Q4: Are HTTG Chairpersons prepared for the spike in NCR’s which may result from new revisions of AMS2759 and AMS2769?

A: The Nadcap Checklist Question and impact should not be driven by the Specifications’ revision. The checklist questions are not revised based on these specification revisions.

Q5: Is there an industry standard for vacuum furnace bake out?

A: AMS2769 has a recommendation on temperature (100 degrees above maximum temperature of operation). There is no need for fast quenching.

Q6: Flow down from Subscribers with latest revision level – can be very complex. One Subscriber (Pratt & Whitney) is able to have anyone involved with the contracts to confirm the level without a login. Would other subscribers consider adopting a similar process?

A: No single answer.

Q7: How many Primes have approved material suppliers?

A: All in attendance.

Q8: NonDestructive Testing (NDT) has a method for closing Minor NCR’s on site. All TGs should consider this.

A: Taken under advisement.

Q9: How to get deviations approved – all subscribers requested to respond?

A: Various methods. Several subscribers described how they grant approvals.

Q10: Temperature discrepancy between Metric and English Units for testing. When they are using the test as a referee for TUS.

A: The auditor should not look for any test data which is outside the scope of accreditation. If you are using the test data for something else, such as verifying TUS, that is something entirely different. It should be adjusted to the requirements in ASTM E29 and treated accordingly.

Q11: Is there a plan to have an Excel spreadsheet for contamination? (STSTG scope)

A: There is no plan to create a form for anything until the Pyrometry Tasks/Forms have been implemented and/or closed.

Motion made by Mark Emerson and Seconded by Wilfried Weber to adjourn.


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43.0 PYROMETRY STANDARD FORMS – CLOSED

When is this form being made available in eAuditNet? It should be available by the middle of November 2017. There will be a disclaimer added that this form is “Not Mandatory” and is not to be construed as a binding requirement of the Heat Treat Task Group.

44.0 AUDITOR CONFERENCE / TRAINING – CLOSED

Auditor Conference/Training for European and Asian Auditors will occur in June on alternating years. HTTG Vice Chairperson Cyril Vernault made the recommendation that it is beneficial to have all the auditors in one room. HTTG Chairperson Tom Norris agreed with Cyril Vernault that for the sake of consistency it would be best to have all the auditors in the same room at one time, (wherever the auditor training is located). Tom also made the observation that since the two-day Auditor Conference has been utilized for the last few years there has been a very large benefit in terms of providing much more time for exchange of information.

This will happen once every two years. The training will be split between Europe and Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA every alternate year starting in 2018.

45.0 CLOSED MEETING NEW BUISNESS – CLOSED

A request was made for volunteers to develop the Auditor Conference Training Package. Cyril Vernault, Tom Norris, Doug Matson and Mark Emerson all volunteered.

OP 1114 Task Group Operation: Question: Should we be reviewing the ballot comments in “Closed Meeting” when the Suppliers also had participated in balloting? This item is tabled and will be reviewed in open meeting at the next February 2017Nadcap Meeting in Madrid, Spain.

ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to add OP1114 HT comment resolution to February 2018 Nadcap Meeting Agenda, Open Session. (Due Date: 1-Feb-2018)

OP 1116 – Auditor Staffing reviewed. No action was taken.

RPS953 Rolls-Royce Requirements: Mark Emerson will present at the February 2018 Nadcap Meeting in Madrid, Spain. Point to the new global document (RP5953) in /S Checklist. Cyril Vernault mentioned that from time to time /S can be revised to enable all Primes to add or modify questions, especially in the light of many revisions to various checklists. All checklist questions need to be associated to A) A core checklist question and B) An industry or customer specification which forms the basis for the question. (Consistent with Checklist Vision). The plan is for PRI Staff to send out the /S Checklist for revision ASAP.

ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to issue /S for revision. (Due Date: 15-Dec-2017)

Advisory HT-17-XXX (use of Heat Sinks): This document was reviewed and revised. It was agreed that this advisory will be released in the proper format. We need to review and see which FAQ’s in the Pyrometry Guide need to be removed and which Advisory needs to be cancelled. The release of this advisory will be withheld until the meeting regarding the Pyrometry Guide.

Action by HTTG Vice Chairperson Cyril Vernault: FAQ #43 can be removed when the new advisory is released. FAQ #63 can stay. Auditor Advisory 13-009 is superseded by the new advisory. Also, Advisory 10-006 is not value added and will be canceled.

ACTION ITEM: Cyril Vernault and PRI Staff to issue Auditor Advisory on Heat Sinks, with cancelation of previous advisories and obsolete FAQ. (Due Date: 1-Feb-2018)

Advisory regarding the Calibration outside the qualified range: Considerable discussion on the value of this additional requirement. A suggestion was that the Primes who have an interest and a stake in this heat treat cycle (involving holding “ramp” at a temperature outside the qualified range) should make this a /S requirement unique to their products. Another suggestion was to


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perform only calibration perhaps once. HTTG Member Martin Day (Honeywell) said their requirement is to have a holding temperature (with accuracy / temperature correction) as well as a prescribed cooling rate.

HTTG Vice Chairperson - Cyril Vernault took a vote of the attending Primes: How many primes are concerned about this issue and want calibration outside of the calibration range? 9 primes are interested; 11 primes are not interested. A suggestion from Doug Matson for all the Subscribers who want this in a /S to work together to develop a uniform procedure.

An Auditor Advisory will be written instructing auditors that there will be no NCR’s to be written against lack of calibration outside of the qualified range unless there is a /S (or internal Supplier) requirement.

ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to issue an Auditor Advisory instructing auditors that there will be no NCR’s written against the lack of calibration outside of the qualified range unless there is a /S (or internal Supplier) requirement. (Due Date: 1-Feb-2018)

PRI Staff Engineer (Mark Burval) presented the Chemical Processing (CP) TG form (NDT is also working with them) which is used for new auditor evaluation. Question was raised as to whether the HT Task Group Sub-team should review this form and perhaps modify this as needed to incorporate our data. Chemical Processing and NDT are the only other Task Groups which have more audits than the HTTG.

ACTION ITEM: Mark Burval to provide the HTTG Sub team rating reports from HT and CP using the same data for a side by side comparison. (Due Date: 15-Dec-2017)

ACTION ITEM: OP1117 Sub-team will review the new approach (from CP) and present their recommendation at the next meeting. (Due Date: 1-Feb-2018)

HTTG Chairperson Tom Norris brought to attention an issue which arose at the open meeting - of a forging supplier who was performing a heat treat cycle (preheating process) which was in violation of their internal procedure. If a supplier is violating their internal procedure should there be a finding? Answer: YES. If the process is not documented and if there is no customer requirement (i.e. If the supplier procedure does not contain temperature tolerance or calibration and is there is no applicable /S question, there will not be an NCR).

This will be covered in an Auditor Advisory. HTTG Vice Chairperson Cyril Vernault will combine this issue with the previous advisory and create one advisory with language addressing two issues A) the Calibration outside operating range and B) No NCR’s for lack of procedure or tolerance for a heat treat process.

ACTION ITEM: Cyril Vernault to issue a consolidated Auditor Advisory addressing Calibration outside operating range and no NCR’s for lack of procedure or tolerance for a pre heat treat process. (Due Date: 1-Feb-2018)

MTL Tensile Testing issue at a Supplier was brought to HTTG attention by Doug Matson. A Supplier received MTL Accreditation and was scheduled for a HT audit. Supplier added MTL Checklist to the scheduled HT Audit. Could this be a violation of the procedure? However, this was discovered in an internal audit by the Supplier. Doug Matson sent an official notification to Nadcap of this issue. The team consensus was that there is an MTL Supplier Advisory to be released and the HTTG needs to review this and act accordingly.

46.0 CLOSED MEETING TABLED SUBJECTS – CLOSED

HTTG Member David Knack has a dual role as a HTTG member as well as a Supplier being audited by Heat Treating auditor. He brought up the point regarding his “Observations “ during the audit and asked whether his information can be added as an “Audit Observation Report”. Much discussion ensued, and it was mentioned that this could be taken to the NMC to determine how this information can be presented. There is another option which is to use the “Supplier Feedback


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Form” instead of the “Observer Report” form for such a unique situation. No action will be taken until PRI Staff receive feedback from the NMC on handling such an issue.

ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to approach the NMC regarding options when an Auditee is able to provide feedback as an Observer. (Due Date: 1-Feb-2018)

Observation Audit Allocations: The list of Observers vs. Auditors for the next 4 months was discussed.

A point was made that we need to expand the observation to ALL auditors over the next two years.

Auditor raised the issue that when required pre-audit documents are withheld from submission due to their designation as “proprietary” they do not consistently have enough time to review Pre- Audit Documents (Supplier Procedures) in advance of the audit and must make time to review them on-site. An extra day could be needed. The NMC has taken an action based on the HTTG request to include a provision for extra time to be added to audits when required documents are not submitted for proprietary reasons. Giving the auditors sufficient time to review and prepare for the audit. These documents are covered by Non Disclosure Agreement (NDA) and will be visible only to the Auditor and deleted immediately after the audit or within the prescribed time period.

Auditor Advisory will be written to notify the auditors that this is available. In cases where they still do not get the documents in advance, the auditors are to notify the PRI Staff so that an additional day is added to the audit for review and preparation.

ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to issue Auditor Advisory regarding additional time for on-site document review, when pre-audit documents are not provided in advance. (Due Date: 1-Feb-2018)

47.0 RAIL REVIEW – CLOSED

Added all the action items and Sub-Teams from the meeting. New action items were captured into the RAIL.

48.0 FEBRUARY 2018 AGENDA - CLOSED

Marcel Cuperman will create February 2018 Heat Treat Task Group Agenda and send to Task Group for review prior to posting.

ADJOURNMENT – 26-Oct-2017 – Meeting was adjourned at Noon.

Minutes Prepared by: Sunder Rajan <[email protected]>

***** For PRI Staff use only: ******

Are procedural/form changes required based on changes/actions approved during this meeting? (select one)

YES* ☐ NO ☒

*If yes, the following information is required:Documents requiring revision: Who is responsible: Due date:

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