Model T Ford Forum_ Transmission Inspection

8/18/2019 Model T Ford Forum_ Transmission Inspection

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Transmission inspection

Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2016: Transmission inspection

By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, January 04, 2016 - 09:31 am:

I am in the process of building up a new engine for the '14. Toward that goal I tore apart a 1919

engine that had been in my parts stash for about 15 years.

The engine had been a decent runner but was in a 1925 Fordor sedan. That car got restored with a

1925 engine. So the 1919 engine sat on a wooden dolly and got moved from Texas to Kentucky to

Virginia and back to Texas again.

Removing the hogshead and the engine pan was uneventful. The pedal shafts were all tight in their

holes, suggesting a low mileage engine. The engine had a bunch of muck in it from non detergent

oil, but was not the worst I have seen. The bands looked almost new. The transmission drums are

the best I have ever found in an engine.

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2/14

The clutch spring was weak. You could tell it was weak because someone had adjusted the screws

in to the point that the gap measured 1" instead of the correct 13/16".

Started by backing off the adjuster screws and compressing the spring:


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Then I pushed the pin out with a punch:

By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Monday, January 04, 2016 - 09:34 am:

Cool spring compressor, is that home-made?


With the clutch spring off the driving plate can be unbolted. The clutch plates were removed,

cleaned and inspected. All are flat, there are no score marks, just a little hint of blue color. Almost

no wear. These plates will be re - used.

I removed the set screw from the clutch hub and pulled it:

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5/14

The brake drum has almost no wear, and no cracks. There is no wear on the lugs that the clutch

plates drive, just some shiny spots where the plates make contact.


6/14

I removed the clutch hub drive key. Then the transmission shaft gets pressed out:


7/14

The planet gears show no signs of wear. All the rivets are tight. The planet shafts are tight in the

flywheel, mirror finish, with no sign of wear. There is no perceptible play in any of the bushings /

shafts. I will measure them tonight. My guess is they are fit to .002 - .003".

Next I took the magnets off the flywheel. They only lift about a pound and will have to be

recharged. That and replacing the clutch spring are the only things needed other than reassembly.


8/14

Apparently my disassembly of the transmission was a complete waste of time!


Mark,

Yes, it is made so that it can be used with the engine in the car. My dad made it probably 50 years

ago.


Left out the photo of the shaft being pushed out of the bushing:

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By Dan B on Monday, January 04, 2016 - 09:56 am:

"Apparently my disassembly of the transmission was a complete waste of time!"

Except that someone who has never attempted gets to see a good overall tutorial with pictures.

Thanks for taking the time to post this.

It appears that the field coil was reinsulated at some point in the past. Was this a good runner on

magneto when it was in the car?

What is the transmission band material?

By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Monday, January 04, 2016 - 09:57 am:

Glad to see that someone got a pleasant surprise on a teardown, instead of the usual unpleasant

surprises! While things are apart, I suppose you could check everything for balance and fine-tune

as desired.

By Rich Chillingworth on Monday, January 04, 2016 - 10:17 am:

Royce,

If you don't mind looking, is the radius rod support bracket on the pan the two rivet or the four

rivet style? I have a Jan 1919 engine which has the two rivet bracket. Just wondering how long

Ford used that earlier bracket.

An Aug 9, 1921 factory note stated "New style crankcase in all production.". Is this about the

radius rod bracket, or something else?

Your '19 transmission looks great. I hope you don't mind my going slightly off topic with your post.

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10/14

Rich C.


Dan,

The field coil has Glyptal on it, obviously not original. Also half the magnet spacers are bronze, the

other half aluminum suggesting someone has replaced the magnets at some time.

Yes, it ran fine on MAG even with the weak magnets. The bands look like either Ford or

Montgomery Wards. They are the detachable ear type. I am tempted to use them on Low and

Reverse.

Rich I will have to look at the pan I don't remember. Would the new style pan be the four dip

style?

By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Monday, January 04, 2016 - 11:49 am:

Nice find Royce. Wouldn't the "top hat" bushing in the brake drum along with the riveted triple

gears make the transmission earlier than a '19 ?


I think the spacer washer came in 1920 Steve. This one had no distance plate in the clutch pack,

again correct for 1919.

By R.V. Anderson on Monday, January 04, 2016 - 12:51 pm:

Your photos show why merely re-coating a used original field coil seldom pays. The brittle

wrappings will continue to flake off and threaten to clog the oil line as well as allow ever more

metallic dust to lodge between the turns of the windings and cause shorts that will reduce the

output.

Thanks for posting.

By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Monday, January 04, 2016 - 01:24 pm:

Royce, I did the same last weekend with different results.

My tranny was set up about ten years or so ago, so I have better than 10,000 miles on it.

Since I couldn't find my spring compressor I had to make a new one:

+++ jpeg +++ 601085 +++ Compressor 1

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11/14

+++

It is not as slick as yours but in a pinch with a splitter and old sheet steel stock on hand, it

worked. I think I just may make up one like yours... it would be harder to lose than mine is.

Following this things went south. Drums look good, but the teeth on Low were worn a

bunch,

the drum bushings are worn and need replacement, the triple gear bushings are shot, and the

output rivets are a little loose.


12/14

At least my magnets are nice like yours. I have to go now and look through my tranny parts

pile to pick the drums I will use this time.

TH

By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, January 04, 2016 - 01:39 pm:

The Bible and the Ford parts book both specify three driven gear sleeve washers (3320-D).

In the transmission from my 1915 roadster I found two. Is there a legitimate reason to leave

one out?

By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, January 04, 2016 - 08:42 pm:

The planet gear pins measure.679. The I. D. Of the bushings is .684. So the clearance is .005".

The wishbone bracket on the pan has only one rivet on each side.

By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Monday, January 04, 2016 - 10:19 pm:

Steve,

Your brake drum would or should have had a flanged bushing as Royce pictured above, which

takes a different clutch drum requiring only two thrust washers and I believe a "distance" plate.

By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Monday, January 04, 2016 - 10:20 pm:

Royce - did your clutch drum have 6 or 2 holes ?

By Royce in Dallas TX on Tuesday, January 05, 2016 - 10:48 am:

Steve,

It has six holes in the front. It has two holes for the puller. It is dirty from the crappy ND oil but

shows no wear.

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By Steve Tomaso - Longbranch,WA on Tuesday, January 05, 2016 - 12:19 pm:

Nice clutch drum ! Requesting the number of holes, I should have specified in the sides where you

would attach the puller.

My understanding of "early" transmissions is the difference in the use of the brake drum with the

flanged bushing, clutch drum with 6 holes in the side being used with the clutch disk distance plate

& 2 steel thrust washers for all the components to be "happy" in relation to each other.

Due to the "flanged" bushing being unavailable, Lang's stocks a "special" steel thrust washer to

merely install with 2 of the stock thickness ones with the brake drum bushing currently available

to maintain the proper distance between the brake drum & clutch drum.

By Kohnke Rebabbitting, Clare, Iowa on Tuesday, January 05, 2016 - 12:55 pm:

All you have to do is lathe about .015 thousandths off the washer side of the disk drum and use

the 3 standard washers to get your .015 thousandths of end play.

Herm.

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Model T Ford Forum_ Transmission Inspection

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