7/17/2014 Malaysia Airlines plane MH17 'crashes in Ukraine' - live updates | World news | theguardian.com

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Malaysia Airlines plane MH17 'crashesin Ukraine' - live updates

• 295 people on board plane that crashed in eastern Ukraine• Bodies and wreckage found near town of Grabovo

• Uncertainty over who has capability to shoot down flight• Ukrainian, Russian and rebel leaders deny involvement

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Local Ukrainian TV images purporting to show a Malaysia passenger airliner MH17 crashing in Ukraine near the

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7/17/2014 Malaysia Airlines plane MH17 'crashes in Ukraine' - live updates | World news | theguardian.com

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/malaysia-airlines-plane-crashes-ukraine-live 2/18

The site of a Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 plane crash in the settlement of Grabovo

in the Donetsk region. Photograph: Maxim Zmeyev/Reuters

My colleague Dan Milmo in London reports that it has been normal

practice for airlines to fly over conflict zones since the Ukraine conflict

began. He interviewed a pilot for a major European airline:

"We would often avoid areas where there is air-to-air

conflict, but we flew over Iraq and Afghanistan when the

British and US armed forces were delpoyed there, because

only one side was using military jets."

Explaining why airlines fly over conflict zones where groups

might be in possession of ground-to-air missiles, the pilot

said: "There will be weapons based on the ground when

you are at 30,000 feet, but that is far up in the air. There

are not many missile systems that can be so accurate."

His comments suggest that assumptions about weapons capabilities on

the ground will have to be reevaluated, pending investigation of the

crash.

Lufthansa airlines will avoid east Ukrainian airspace immediately,

Reuters snaps

In April, US flights were warned not to fly over conflict-ridden regions of

eastern Ukraine by the FAA earlier this year.

The White House has confirmed that Obama and Putin spoke on

the phone this morning to discuss new US sanctions, Paul Lews reports,

but did not say whether the call occurred before or after reports of the

crash emerged.

The Kremlin issued the following statement:

"The Russian leader informed the US president about information

received just before the telephone call from aviation services about the

crash of a Malaysian plane over Ukrainian territory."

Russian president Vladimir Putin has released a statement via the

Kremlin website (Russian). It reads:

Vladimir Putin has expressed his deepest condolences to

Prime Minister Najib Razak of Malaysia with regard to the

accident in Ukrainian territory of a Malaysian Airlines

passenger aircraft, resulting in numerous casualties.

The Russian head of state asked him to convey his

sincerest words of sympathy and support to families and

friends of the victims.

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7/17/2014 Malaysia Airlines plane MH17 'crashes in Ukraine' - live updates | World news | theguardian.com

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/malaysia-airlines-plane-crashes-ukraine-live 3/18

We have a quick video report on the crash, with details as they currently

stand.

MH17 crash in eastern Ukraine.

Russia's UN envoy has denied any involvement, AFP reports.

"We didn't do it," Russian Ambassador Vitaly Churkin told

reporters at UN headquarters in New York.

Russian news outlet RIA Novosti reported that President Vladimir Putin

has spoken with US President Barack Obama, but the US has not

confirmed any such conversation.

Paul Lewis reports:

Barack Obama, who has just landed in Delaware, has been

briefed about the airliner crash. His spokesman, Josh

Earnest, told reporters on board Air Force One that the

president had instructed his staff to keep him updated and

make contact with senior Ukrainian officials.

Reuters, on the scene, has tweeted a photo of the crash site near

Grabovo.

The site of a Malaysia Airlines plane crash in the

settlement of Grabovo in Donetsk region:

http://t.co/yVWeqntSaK pic.twitter.com/guBJ5ppeRy

— Reuters Top News (@Reuters) July 17, 2014

Aleksandr Borodai, the leader of the self-declared Donetsk People's

Republic, has publicly denied rebel involvement in the crash, Alec Luhn

reports.

Borodai tweeted (Russian) that the rebels were not

involved in the attack. "According to initial information, the

plane was shot down by Ukrainian air defence. The rebels

don't have weapons with which they could shoot down a

plane at 10,000 metres"

But the Donetsk People's Republic said in June its forces

had captured Buk missiles from a Ukrainian military base,

Itar-Tass news agency reported. The Buk missile has a

range of 18,000 metres, according to some accounts.

The White House is in contact with Ukrainian officials, according to

Reuters.

Paul Lewis in Washington, has comments from a senior US official on

rebels' weapon capabilities.

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7/17/2014 Malaysia Airlines plane MH17 'crashes in Ukraine' - live updates | World news | theguardian.com

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/malaysia-airlines-plane-crashes-ukraine-live 4/18

On Wednesday, a senior official from Barack Obama's

administration cited the shooting down of a Ukrainian jet

earlier this week as evidence of Russia's escalating

involvement in the conflict. The official, speaking on the

condition of anonymity, suggested that the sophisticated

weaponry that would have been required to down the

transport jet, which was flying at high-altitude, on Monday,

was likely to have been supplied across the Russian

border.

Their full comments are below:

"Even in the face of all of this diplomacy that has been

going on, and very high level efforts by us, and key

members of the European Union - notably France,

Germany and the UK - over the the past month the flow of

heavy weapons and support for separatists from Russia

has actually increased.

"You will have seen on social media over the last week

convoys of Russian tanks, armoured personnel carriers,

infantry combat vehicles, grad rocket launchers, howitzers,

self-propelled mortars, flowing into Ukraine. On 14 July the

Ukrainian's lost an AN-26 transport jet which was shot down

from an altitude of 21,000 feet with eight crew onboard.

And only very sophisticated weapons systems would be

able to reach this height."

Bodies and wreckage found near Grabovo

Dozens of bodies and broken pieces of wing with MH17 colors

have been found near the town of Grabovo, according to a Reuters

correspondent.

Dozens of bodies were scattered around the smouldering

wreckage of a passenger jet that crashed in eastern

Ukraine on Thursday, a Reuters reporter said.

An emergency services rescue worker said at least 100

bodies had so far been found at the scene, near the village

of Grabovo, and that debris from the wreckage was

scattered across an area up to about 15km (nine miles) in

diameter.

Broken pieces of the wings were marked with blue and red

paint – the same colours as the emblem of the Malaysian

airline which lost track of a flight from Amsterdam to Kuala

Lumpur that was carrying almost 300 people.

President Poroshenko denies any Ukrainian military involvement,

AP and Reuters report, responding to an accusation made by Aleksandr

Borodai, a leader of the separatist camp.

"This is the third event in the last few days following An-26 and SU-25

planes being brought down. We do not exclude that this plane was also

shot down and we stress that the armed forces of Ukraine did not carry

out any action to destroy targets in the air," the press service said.

Earlier Thursday, Kiev accused Russia of involvement in downing

aircraft.

Like Poroshenko, Malaysia's prime minister says he is launching an

immediate probe into the reported crash.

Reuters is on the ground and has a correspondent near the wreck site.

#BREAKING: Reuters correspondent on the scene in

Eastern Ukraine sees burning wreckage of air plane,

bodies on ground

39m ago

42m ago

Updated 37m ago

48m ago

7/17/2014 Malaysia Airlines plane MH17 'crashes in Ukraine' - live updates | World news | theguardian.com

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/malaysia-airlines-plane-crashes-ukraine-live 5/18

— Reuters World (@ReutersWorld) July 17, 2014

Rebels claim not to have the capabilities to shoot down the

Malaysia flight, Alec Luhn reports per Interfax's story.

Interfax news agency has quoted leaders of the self-

declared Donetsk people's republic denying that the rebels

shot down the Malaysian airlines plane. A reported member

of the republic's security council said the rebels only have

weapons able to shoot down a plane at 3,000 metres and

blamed Ukrainian military forces for the attack. (The plane

was reportedly flying at 10,000 metres).

But officials from Ukraine's defence ministry and national

security council said the rebels have Buk surface-to-air

missiles able to shoot down planes at such elevations and

suggested one was used in the attack.

Ukraine's President Petro Poroshenko called for the creation of a

commission to investigate the accident.

"This is the third tragic incident in recent days after

Ukrainian military An-26 and Su-25 jets were shot down

from Russian territory. We don't rule out that this plane was

also shot down, and we stress that the Ukrainian military

didn't take any actions to destroy targets in the air," he

said.

Separatist rebels in east Ukraine deny any involvement to Russian

news agency Interfax, relays the New York Times' former Moscow

correspondent Ellen Barry.

Per Interfax: Pro-Russian militia leaders deny involvement.

"We simply do not have such air defense systems,"

MANPADs reach only 4000m.

— Ellen Barry (@EllenBarryNYT) July 17, 2014

Malaysia's defence and acting transport minister Hishammuddin Hussein

says his office will investigate via his Twitter feed:

No comfirmation it was shot down! Our military have been

instructed 2 get on it! “@Nessie43: @tenoq Ukr Gov report

plane was shot down

— Hishammuddin Hussein (@HishammuddinH2O)

July 17, 2014

*Correction: It is now Liow Tiong Lai, who is currently in Beijing,

according to Malaysia's Bernama news agency.

Hishammuddin Hussein has urged calm.

MH17-keep calm.Presently in constant touch wit PM

@NajibRazak Foreign Min @Anifah_myg & Transport

Min@liowtionglai working closely with me.

— Hishammuddin Hussein (@HishammuddinH2O)

July 17, 2014

Anton Gerashchenko, an adviser to Ukraine's interior minister, has

51m ago

Updated 46m ago

56m ago

1h 3m ago

Updated 19m ago

1h 10m ago

7/17/2014 Malaysia Airlines plane MH17 'crashes in Ukraine' - live updates | World news | theguardian.com

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/malaysia-airlines-plane-crashes-ukraine-live 6/18

written on Facebook (Russian) that "280 passengers and 15 members

have died" in the crash, and that the plane was last recorded flying at

10,000 meters.

He links to an unverified video showing smoke rising in eastern Ukraine,

and accuses militants of shooting down the plane: "A civilian airliner

travelling from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur has just been shot down by a

Buk anti-aircraft system."

Malaysia Airlines has tweeted that it lost contact with MH17, as reported

by Reuters.

Malaysia Airlines has lost contact of MH17 from

Amsterdam. The last known position was over Ukrainian

airspace. More details to follow.

— Malaysia Airlines (@MAS) July 17, 2014

Malaysia Airlines flight #MH17 just before it disappeared

over Ukraine. pic.twitter.com/xvDHsEQtkg

— Flightradar24 (@flightradar24) July 17, 2014

A passenger jet belonging to Malaysia Airlines reportedly crashed in

eastern Ukraine in an area where separatist rebels have been engaging

Ukrainian Army forces in recent weeks.

The plane, travelling from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, apparently had

295 people on board and crashed near the town of Snezhnoe, according

to a report from Interfax which could not immediately be confirmed.

A source in the Russian aviation industry told Reuters that the plane did

not enter Russian airspace when expected and had indeed crashed in

eastern Ukraine. Quoting an aviation source, Reuters also reported that

burning wreckage was found.

In recent days the Ukrainian air force has lost planes in the area after

they have been shot down by rebels. Earlier on Thursday, Ukraine

accused Russia of downing one of its fighter jets inside Ukrainian

territory.

Updated 49m ago

1h 16m ago

1h 20m ago

Updated 27m ago

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All comments Staff replies Guardian picks

12 PEOPLE, 14 COMMENTS

ParticularCrab

BBC already reporting crash site to be much nearer to the Russian boarder thanFlightradar24 picture shows.

17 July 2014 5:25pm

6

Spaldy ParticularCrab

17 July 2014 5:38pm

90

Share

7/17/2014 Malaysia Airlines plane MH17 'crashes in Ukraine' - live updates | World news | theguardian.com

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/malaysia-airlines-plane-crashes-ukraine-live 7/18

Show 11 more replies Last reply: 17 July 2014 6:07pm

The separatists claimed they shot down what they thought was a cargoairliner. When news broke it was a passenger craft they took down theirpost and the Russian media have blacked out the report. It's obvious whodid it.

17 July 2014 5:38pm

ParticularCrab Spaldy

Umm they don't have the weapons to shoot down a plane flying at 33,000feet...

17 July 2014 5:46pm

12

Vatslav Rente Spaldy

This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by our

17 July 2014 5:48pm

2 PEOPLE, 2 COMMENTS

DoesNotComputer

Humanity is sloppy.

17 July 2014 5:25pm

6

Plataea DoesNotComputer

Correct & one group of humanity had the weapons (& inclination) to shootdown an airliner clearly crossing from Ukraine airspace into Russianairspace & flying at around 10,000 meters - & clearly not landing anywherenear where it was shoot down.

17 July 2014 5:58pm

ClaphamWolves

Shocking stuff.

17 July 2014 5:25pm

41

11 PEOPLE, 14 COMMENTS

Show 11 more replies Last reply: 17 July 2014 6:01pm

Doug Salzmann

Why was a passenger plane flying through airspace that has been the scene, fordays, of aerial bombardment of the DPR resistance and local civilians, and of returnfire by the resistance that has already downed multiple Ukrainian military aircraft?

17 July 2014 5:26pm

53

PaperEater Doug Salzmann

Victim blaming much?

17 July 2014 5:34pm

45

Clayton Brooks PaperEater

seems more like an observation to me, but i suppose everything is open tointerpretation these days.

17 July 2014 5:39pm

20

Alex Weber Doug Salzmann

Because warplanes don't fly at anywhere near 33,000 feet, except for

17 July 2014 5:39pm

43

7/17/2014 Malaysia Airlines plane MH17 'crashes in Ukraine' - live updates | World news | theguardian.com

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/malaysia-airlines-plane-crashes-ukraine-live 8/18

Menotti

Christ on a bike.

17 July 2014 5:27pm

11

10 PEOPLE, 14 COMMENTS

Show 11 more replies Last reply: 17 July 2014 6:04pm

CharlesII

Maybe comments shouldn't be on here?

17 July 2014 5:27pm

79

Menotti CharlesII

Quite; news agencies and governments have no idea what's happening.Opening this up to the PutinBots with their 8 bajillion recommends and theAnti-American rabble only adds to the net amount of disdain for humanitythis story can generate.

17 July 2014 5:31pm

80

Spacedone CharlesII

I was going to disagree and then I read Beanfield85's idiocy.

17 July 2014 5:31pm

14

ColdPenguin Menotti

Opening this up to the PutinBots

17 July 2014 5:34pm

12

Euronymous

This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by ourcommunity standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs.

17 July 2014 5:28pm

Beanfield85

This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by ourcommunity standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs.

17 July 2014 5:28pm

helpmejebus

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17 July 2014 5:29pm

2 PEOPLE, 2 COMMENTS

Trudi Goater

If nothing else brings them to their senses then this should surely!!! An immediatecease fire should be called at once and all this crap must stop

17 July 2014 5:29pm

29

Ishowerdaily Trudi Goater

You'd hope so wouldn't you? Unfortunately, for me, it feels the closest toWW3 since 1984.

I don't despair of humanity - just the fools, crooks and charlatans we allowto lead us into inhumanity.

17 July 2014 5:45pm

15

7/17/2014 Malaysia Airlines plane MH17 'crashes in Ukraine' - live updates | World news | theguardian.com

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/malaysia-airlines-plane-crashes-ukraine-live 9/18

helpmejebus

This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by ourcommunity standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs.

17 July 2014 5:30pm

9 PEOPLE, 10 COMMENTS

Show 7 more replies Last reply: 17 July 2014 6:07pm

ColdPenguin

It is interesting to see how the Telegraph are reporting this with lots of pictures ofRussian missiles and bellicose statements from a variety of their journalists who, likeeveryone at present know nothing.

It gives an insight into how a regional event was blown up into WW1 by interestedparties in 1914.

17 July 2014 5:30pm

41

edwardrice ColdPenguin

Yeah, Russia is being blamed already.

17 July 2014 5:43pm

7

vazelas99 ColdPenguin

They go on to say:

17.03 It's thought that the plane was shot down by a BUKsurface-to-air missile.

Forgetting to mention that it is Kiev making that claim, or else the ycan't blameit to the rebels that only have manpads...

17 July 2014 5:46pm

3

hamatik edwardrice

Well it probably was them to be fair. Probably.

17 July 2014 5:49pm

3

3 PEOPLE, 3 COMMENTS

SamDecker

Talk about getting caught in the crossfire. Shocking.

17 July 2014 5:30pm

3

DaveGunner SamDecker

Truly tragic! Lost of innocent lives again ... Malaysian Airlines must becursed for such tragic circumstance to fall on its lap again.

I hope there'll be swift justice meted out on the perpetrators of such heinouscrimes!

17 July 2014 5:45pm

6

bootboys DaveGunner

So apparently we know, or rather you know, that it wasn't a mechanicalfailure or anything of that nature, the "perpetrators" did it.

That's why comments shouldn't be open on a topic like this - all the fuckwitsand loons come out with their unsubstantiated theories.

17 July 2014 6:03pm

umut gezer

17 July 2014 5:31pm

7/17/2014 Malaysia Airlines plane MH17 'crashes in Ukraine' - live updates | World news | theguardian.com

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/malaysia-airlines-plane-crashes-ukraine-live 10/18

This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by ourcommunity standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs.

4 PEOPLE, 4 COMMENTS

Trader SeerStrategy

Flying commercial aircraft over war zone is not a smart idea.

It also might be some terrorists on board

17 July 2014 5:31pm

20

umut gezer Trader SeerStrategy

This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by ourcommunity standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see ourFAQs.

17 July 2014 5:34pm

harrowperson Trader SeerStrategy

This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by ourcommunity standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see ourFAQs.

17 July 2014 5:49pm

Aleksandr Romanovich Podgaets Trader SeerStrategy

Let's hope it will a wake up call for both gangs, finally sit down and talk.

Otherwise it will be impossible for investigation to visit a crash site.

17 July 2014 6:04pm

Trudi Goater

If this doesn't bring these idiots to their senses nothing will! An immediate cease fireshould be declared straight away! These morons need to stop now RIP poor people

17 July 2014 5:32pm

17

GhostWiper

Tragic. Hopefully nothing sinister has happened but it’s a sad old world whenbecause of the airline and the place it crashed we immediately assume the worst.

17 July 2014 5:33pm

12

mike65ie

Just what we need - a blog full of "bots" from both sides posting propaganda.

17 July 2014 5:33pm

17

6 PEOPLE, 6 COMMENTS

Martynas Sv

Nor Ukrainians nor separatists didnt have a weapon to get down this plane in thataltitude, so it must be russian work.

17 July 2014 5:33pm

7

edwardrice Martynas Sv

Why would Russia shot down a passenger jet. Did Russia think it was ahigh level bomber about to attack? Please explain.

17 July 2014 5:47pm

8

7/17/2014 Malaysia Airlines plane MH17 'crashes in Ukraine' - live updates | World news | theguardian.com

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/malaysia-airlines-plane-crashes-ukraine-live 11/18

Show 3 more replies Last reply: 17 July 2014 6:08pm

Menotti edwardrice

You don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to crack this case. No-one in theRussian or the Ukrainian regular armed forces is going to shoot down ajetliner. Russians? As you say did they think it was a bomber? One bomberon it's own? Hardly? Ukraine? It's heading East-West away from Ukraineand in any case they know they have the only planes capable of flying thathigh within Ukraine.

That leaves... Oh yeah the Separatist group who's been busy shooting downplanes and apparently claimed *today* to have shot down a 'transport plane'.

I get that you hate America and let's face it their foreign policy work over thelast 50 years hardly reads like Enid Blyton, but that doesn't mean you haveto hop in Putin's lap for a stroke behind the ear.

17 July 2014 6:02pm

1

lexnex Martynas Sv

Why would Russia do it? It would not benefit neither politically, nor

17 July 2014 6:04pm

FieldingGray

I suppose it's too much to hope that the tin foil hat brigade won't muddy the waterswith their usual ridiculous talk of False Flag ops?

Yeah, I always was a naive optimist....

17 July 2014 5:33pm

12

7 PEOPLE, 7 COMMENTS

Show 4 more replies Last reply: 17 July 2014 5:49pm

Miamijim

If Russia shot this plane down there will be hell to pay.

17 July 2014 5:33pm

10

bobble07 Miamijim

Well not hard to see your line of thinking

But if Ukraine shot it down then it there will still be hell to pay for Russiaright..?

17 July 2014 5:36pm

32

Menotti Miamijim

Respectfully I disagree. There should be hell to pay, but there won't; 300lives are nowt to those who think in terms of geopolitics.

17 July 2014 5:36pm

13

umut gezer Miamijim

if Ukraine did?

17 July 2014 5:38pm

5

3 PEOPLE, 5 COMMENTS

PaperEater

Before people jump to conclusions and kick off world war 3 let's hope that no actionsare taken before all the facts are known. It really could have been a crash with nooutside interference.

17 July 2014 5:34pm

11

NotWithoutMyMonkey PaperEater

17 July 2014 5:42pm

4

7/17/2014 Malaysia Airlines plane MH17 'crashes in Ukraine' - live updates | World news | theguardian.com

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/malaysia-airlines-plane-crashes-ukraine-live 12/18

Show 2 more replies Last reply: 17 July 2014 6:03pm

Agreed. Let's give the families of those lost time to grief and the relevantimpartial bodies to determine the cause.

17 July 2014 5:42pm

NotWithoutMyMonkey NotWithoutMyMonkey

grieve, not grief.

If impartial bodies are involved in determining the cause then the truth willcome to light soon enough. Either way, were this civilian plane shot down byeither side (or a third party) this constitutes a serious escalation of thesetension with unimaginable ramifications.

17 July 2014 5:46pm

1

SingaporeSlim PaperEater

But unlikely as planes don't go down in cruise very often

17 July 2014 5:58pm

1

deezer

Jesus. RIP.

17 July 2014 5:34pm

6

Jamesread

Trigger-happy morons (from whichever side).

17 July 2014 5:35pm

5

ovacik777

DON'T JUMP THE GUN, GET FACTS,?????

17 July 2014 5:35pm

2

5 PEOPLE, 5 COMMENTS

Show 2 more replies Last reply: 17 July 2014 6:02pm

Nolens

Reports say flight MH17 was brought down by an anti aircraft missile, most probablyby Russian backed rebels. If this is the case, it will cause a very, very serious crisisbetween the West and Russia. I hope a full transparant investigation will be launchedthat will not be blocked by the Russians. My sincere condolences to all those whohave lost loved ones in this tragedy.

17 July 2014 5:36pm

28

umut gezer Nolens

it is in Ukraine territory, so if there is any bias report on crash it will comeonly from Americans.

17 July 2014 5:39pm

18

SamDecker umut gezer

You lot keep saying it's not Ukraine territory but NovoRussia. You can't haveit both ways. Make up your minds.

17 July 2014 5:48pm

8

scipio16 umut gezer

irony?

17 July 2014 5:54pm

1

7/17/2014 Malaysia Airlines plane MH17 'crashes in Ukraine' - live updates | World news | theguardian.com

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/malaysia-airlines-plane-crashes-ukraine-live 13/18

MalenkyMuk

This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by ourcommunity standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs.

17 July 2014 5:37pm

6 PEOPLE, 6 COMMENTS

Show 3 more replies Last reply: 17 July 2014 6:06pm

Awaba

Is history repeating itself? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007

"Korean Air Lines Flight 007 (also known as KAL007 and KE007) was a scheduledKorean Air Lines flight from New York City to Seoul via Anchorage. On September 1,1983, the airliner serving the flight was shot down by a Soviet Su-15 interceptor nearMoneron Island, west of Sakhalin Island, in the East Sea. The interceptor's pilot wasMajor Gennadi Osipovich. All 269 passengers and crew aboard were killed, includingLawrence McDonald, representative from Georgia in the United States House ofRepresentatives. The aircraft was en route from Anchorage to Seoul when it flewthrough prohibited Soviet airspace around the time of a U.S. reconnaissancemission.

The Soviet Union initially denied knowledge of the incident, but later admitted theshootdown, claiming that the aircraft was on a spy mission."

17 July 2014 5:37pm

9

umut gezer Awaba

are you forgetting Iranian plane shot down by the US?

17 July 2014 5:39pm

25

Zain Tariq umut gezer

Absolutely correct! 290 deaths

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

17 July 2014 5:44pm

9

Alexander Pankov Awaba

What about this event? When Ukrainians shot down a Russian plane??? Or

17 July 2014 5:50pm

3

Lee Richard

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17 July 2014 5:37pm

2 PEOPLE, 2 COMMENTS

1Essex

Whenever I've flown on international flights that cross over areas of the globe wherefighting is taking place I've never been concerned as I always imagined that 33,000feet would be high enough to avoid things like this.

Frightening that this is apparently incorrect, and it seems like more careful routing offlights is required.

17 July 2014 5:37pm

20

healey 1Essex

I always imagined that 33,000 feet would be high enough to avoidthings like this.

Not a chance. There's a reason why the old SR-71 Blackbird cruised atMach 3 at an altitude of 85,000ft.

17 July 2014 5:55pm

2

7/17/2014 Malaysia Airlines plane MH17 'crashes in Ukraine' - live updates | World news | theguardian.com

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/malaysia-airlines-plane-crashes-ukraine-live 14/18

2 PEOPLE, 2 COMMENTS

365days

Now where have I...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007

17 July 2014 5:38pm

7

rockyrex 365days

I remember the Korean airliner incident. In the UK that evening, the BBCnews opened with the BBC Evesham picture.

This suggests that TV was about to switch to the Emergency BroadcastingService which (in the event of nuclear war) would have taken over allbroadcasting from the BBC bunker at Wood Norton near Evesham.

Within seconds it went back to the normal picture, with a rattled newsreaderreporting the story.

Things were very close that day.

17 July 2014 5:46pm

unknownprogrammer

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17 July 2014 5:38pm

Voltaire21

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17 July 2014 5:38pm

lexnex

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17 July 2014 5:38pm

GuyCybershy

"The official, speaking on the condition of anonymity"

How often have we heard this phrase recently?

17 July 2014 5:39pm

7

totis

What a tragedy. The worst thing is that both sides will blame each other, thesmoking gun will never be found, and the families of the deceased will never knowwho committed this dreadful crime.

17 July 2014 5:40pm

8

Simon100

Tragedy! Those poor people on the plane and their families.

17 July 2014 5:40pm

7

AdanSydneyFC

https://twitter.com/susancandiotti/status/489810673778847744/photo/1

17 July 2014 5:40pm

7/17/2014 Malaysia Airlines plane MH17 'crashes in Ukraine' - live updates | World news | theguardian.com

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/malaysia-airlines-plane-crashes-ukraine-live 15/18

2 PEOPLE, 2 COMMENTS

TigerTim

in b4 russian/american apologists and eu haters start..

oh, they're already here

17 July 2014 5:41pm

6

NotWithoutMyMonkey TigerTim

Both sides are jumping the gun. The truth, if the impartial bodies are allowedunfettered access to the crash-site, will come to light soon enough.

17 July 2014 6:07pm

JonCymru

What's really needed now is cool heads, considering the calibre of politicians anddiplomats on this planet right now, I won't hold my breath.

17 July 2014 5:41pm

9

djkbrown2001

This is shocking! Let's hope these idiots will now come around to their senses andhave an immediate and permanent seize fire. To many illnesses and naturaldisasters can kill us ,so let's not add to it by killing each other.

17 July 2014 5:41pm

3

4 PEOPLE, 4 COMMENTS

alcove

The problem with waging a proxy war is that you are morally responsible even if yourproxy wriggles free and acts its own. Russia would do well to remember that.

17 July 2014 5:41pm

18

edwardrice alcove

People in the east took up arms after the EU/US backed coup in Kiev. If the opposition in Feb had gone to the polls instead of grabbing power thenthere wouldn't be a civil war in the east.

17 July 2014 5:52pm

4

orangeproximity alcove

Of course, Americans should not remember that as they do not wage warby proxy.. They just invade the country... It is called bring freedom andaccomplishing missions...

17 July 2014 5:57pm

2

SamDecker edwardrice

This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by ourcommunity standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see ourFAQs.

17 July 2014 5:59pm

martyjar

295 civilians – from that height. This looks certain to be an absolutely massivetragedy, with unthinkable death levels. RIP.

Certainly the evidence on what has happened seems to be pointing in one direction,but there’ll now be a huge amount of international scrutiny on the case, and we

17 July 2014 5:42pm

4

7/17/2014 Malaysia Airlines plane MH17 'crashes in Ukraine' - live updates | World news | theguardian.com

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/malaysia-airlines-plane-crashes-ukraine-live 16/18

but there’ll now be a huge amount of international scrutiny on the case, and weshould hear more in coming days.

2 PEOPLE, 2 COMMENTS

RedsInTheBed

Guardian - get the bloody comments off this article/news feed - have you nosympathy for the victims here.

17 July 2014 5:42pm

16

Jamesread RedsInTheBed

Do you want to shut down Twitter as well?

17 July 2014 5:48pm

6

Kookaroo

This is a tragedy. It will also open fresh wounds for the families of the still missingflight MH370 and, it is worth reflecting, that hundreds of new families will be in agonyand grief tonight.

It would be advisable to either close the comments on this story or at least moderateto avoid adding to their anguish as they search for news. It is far too early tospeculate, and doing so will only acerbate an already dreadful situation.

'roo

17 July 2014 5:43pm

12

3 PEOPLE, 3 COMMENTS

Zain Tariq

A similar incident happened in 1983 when one fighter jet of the Soviet union shotdown a South Korean passenger plane and this was during the Cold War.

It took years to finish the investigation and a lot of speculation. I need quick answersto this incident

17 July 2014 5:43pm

1

rockyrex Zain Tariq

See

http://www.theguardian.com/discussion/user/id/2402595

17 July 2014 5:47pm

1

SamDecker Zain Tariq

Why do you need quick answers? What's it got to do with you? Surely thefamilies are the ones that need to know the CORRECT answers.

17 July 2014 5:55pm

2

3 PEOPLE, 3 COMMENTS

SamDecker

Wow, nothing is officially known yet but the Kremlin lot are already out in force,spinning away, as if they sense they're side has done something indefensible andthey need to shift the blame pronto.

17 July 2014 5:43pm

12

orangeproximity SamDecker

It is interesting how a plane goes missing over Ukraine and the Russiansare to blame... Is there some time when the Russians are not to blame?Talk about spinning away mate...

17 July 2014 6:00pm

1

7/17/2014 Malaysia Airlines plane MH17 'crashes in Ukraine' - live updates | World news | theguardian.com

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/17/malaysia-airlines-plane-crashes-ukraine-live 17/18

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1 2 3

hamatik SamDecker

Both sides are probably panicking hoping it wasn't their allies' actions thatbrought the plane down.

Could have been terrorists or engine failure or anything. Would be a hugecoincidence, but you never know.

If anyone's got shares in Malaysia Airlines, I'd pretty much write them off.

17 July 2014 6:06pm

3 PEOPLE, 3 COMMENTS

JustDeFacts

why was a civilian passenger plane routed directly across a disputed war zone whereaircraft get shot down?

17 July 2014 5:43pm

15

scottie123 JustDeFacts

Planes fly over conflict zones all the time. Unless there is a no-fly-zoneabove 8000m then the commercial flights continue, I flew over Afghanistanon the same Amsterdam-KL route during the war there.

17 July 2014 6:00pm

SingaporeSlim JustDeFacts

Because its a well established corridor. There are plenty of flights using itright this minute, have a look at Flight Radar 24. I personally flew it lastweek and will be going across it again in 4 days time unless the routing ischanged, which I hope to Christ it will be

17 July 2014 6:02pm

meekstom21

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17 July 2014 5:43pm

2 PEOPLE, 2 COMMENTS

WarRocketAjax

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17 July 2014 5:43pm

alcove WarRocketAjax

Yes. That's the gist of it.

The Guardian comment section is going to be unbearable again for a while,just as it was a couple months ago.

17 July 2014 5:47pm

2

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7/17/2014 Malaysia Airlines plane MH17 'crashes in Ukraine' - live updates | World news | theguardian.com

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