1664 [ASSEMBLY.]

ante canvasser is pushing his trade, anddoing his utmost to secure commissions.Then there is the man in similar employ-nwnt who, say, is trying to sell sewingmacehines. If such people were confined to44 hours a week, they would never earn themoney that they make to-day. I know ofthree ilen who joined a certain sewingmachine firm in Pert!,, one two years ago,another three years ago, and the third onlyIS months ago; each of these men to-dayis driving his own Dodge ear. Two havepaid for the cars and the other has paid 50per cent, of the cost. I challenge Mr. Grayto assist me to exclude canvassers fromthe provision of the Bill if I can show theyare earning upwards of £:10 a week uinderpresent conditions. Mr. Gray is agitatedabout the domestics. I do not think it is inthe mind of any member to deny the rightof organisation to domestics, but somespecial provision should be made for thematter of inspection Reference has beenmade to the sanctity of the home. This isnot merely a hackneyed phrase. The homeis the centre of social existence, and itwould be unthinkable if it were made sub-ject to the same system of inspection as isa factory. There is no analogy whateverbetween the two places. Organise the do-mestics to the highest pitch, if you will, buthads off the sanctity of the homel

Hon. J1. J. Holmes: We know what thepoliceman comes to the kitchen for, but weshall not know what the inspector comesfor.

Hon. E. H. Gray: The insurance agentcomes to the home.

Hon. J. M4. Macfarlane: But he comes tosee the boss.

Hion. G. POTTER: The insurance agenthas a right to go to the home in order toearn his living, but an emissary of the Gov.erment should not be permitted to enterthe home. It is the sincere desire of everymember that the nurses should receive whatis due to them.

Hon. E. H. Gray: : Then why did you notgive it to them long ago?

Hon. .1. 3. Holmes: Why do not yourGovernment give it to them now?

Hon. Gr. POTTER: There is no excusefor not giving them what is due to them.The private hospitals have led the way inthe paymnent of nurses, and no person wouldgrudge the nurses the full measure of re-compenise for their skill and personality.When there is a proposal to ameliorate theconditions uinder which nurses work, weshall he Gnited in our desire to give themwhat they wish. I support the second read-ing.

On motion by Iron. J. Ri. Brown, debateadjourned.

Homse adjourned at 10.19 p.m.

legislative Esec111bWPW1ednesday, 5th November, 1924.

Mesagip from, the Governor .. .. ..Bills: Fire Brigades Act Amendment, in. ..

Treasury Bills Act Amendment, is. ..Generul Loain and Inscribed Stock Act,

Contiance, 3n. .. .. ..Dividend Duties Act Amendment, report..Trust Funds Investment, council's

Amendment .. .. .. ..Roads Closurve, 2R...................Bunbury Electric Yighting Act Amendment,

2R., Corn., report .. .. .Carnarvon Electric Lighting Amendment, 2t.,

Corn, report .. .. .. ..Roaid District Act Amendment, 22. ..Reserves (Sale Autborlsatlon), 2E., Corn.

report .. .. .. .. ..Annual Estimates: Votes and Item; discussed..

PAGE16416841604

18641664

16641665

1805

38666186

18671INS

The SPEAKER took the Chair at 4.30p.m1., and read prayers.

MESSAGES FROM THE GOVERNOR.

M essages from the Governor receivedand rend recolmmuending appropriation inconnection with the following Bills:-

1, Treasury Bills Act Amendment.2, General Loan and Inscribed Stock

Act Amendment.

BILL-FIRE BRIGADES ACT AMEND-M1ENT.

Introduced by the Premier and read afirst time.

BILLS (2)-THIRD READING.

1, Treasury Bills Act Amendment.

2, General Loan and Inscribed StockAct Continuance.

Transmitted to the Council.

BILL-DIVIDEND DUTIES ACTAMENDMENT.

Report of Committee adopted.

BILL-TRUST FUNDS INVESTMENT.

Council's Amendment.

Amendment made by the Council nowconsidered.

1In Committee.

Mr. Lutey in the Chair; the Ministerfor Works ia charge of the Bill.

Clause 2, Subelause (1)..-Add a provisoas follows: ''Provided that ptior to theissue of suchk debentures the Under Secre-tary for Public Works shall have certifiedin writing-(a) that seventy-five per

[3 NOvEM1BER, 1924.]66

centuni of the ratepayers of the districthave paid all rates due by them for ratesimposed by the road board for the thenlast preceding financial year; (b) that thetotal annual rateable value of the roaddistrict shall disclose an average increaseof at least one per centuni pier annual dur-ing the immnediately preceding five years.'

The MINISTER FOR WORKS: It isexceptional to name a public servant andrequire him to certify to certain things.That duty could reasonably have been, leftto the Minister. I do not take great ex-ception to the other part of the amend-ment, hut I am not agreeable to the UnderSecretary being named as the certifyingauthority. I move-

That tihe amc,,dment be amnended bystriking out "'Under Secretary" and in-serting ''Minister'' in ien.

Hion. Sir James Mitchell: It is really amatter of book-keeping.

The Premier: But it is unusual to men-tion an officer in that way.

The MINISTER FOR WORKS: TheMinister has to certify that the road boardis sound, and that should be sufficient. Ifthe other matters are to be certified, itshould be done by the Minister.

Amendment on amendment put andpassed; the Council's amendment, asamended, agreed to.

Resolution reported, the report adopted,and a message accordingly returned to theCouncil.

BILL-ROADS CLOSURE.

Second Reading.

The MINISTER FOR LANDS (Hon. W.C. Angwin-Nortb*-East Fremantle) Ef44)in moving the second reading said: This isone of the Bills which usually come downtow-ards the close of the sessioa. Hen-members will see that it consists of fiveclauses, four of which deal with roads invarious parts of the State. Clause 2 refersto Fitzgerald-terrace, Fremantle. The ter-race faces the sea, and an area allotted tohaths causes the alignment to be out ofline with the street. A proper survey hasbeen made, and now it is asked that thatportion of Fitzgerald-terrace which is notwithin the alignment shall be closed in or-der to make the alignment regular through-out.

M r. Taylor: Is it a long street?

The 'MINISTER FOR LANDS: No;about three blocks. Clause 3 proposes aslight alteration in a street in Collie. Itappears that there is a site for a tradeshall facing Throssell-street, which is themain street of - the town, and also facingPatterson-street.

[64]

Himu. Sir James Mitehell: Isn 't there anexchange of land in connection with thismnatter?

The MINISTER FOE LANDS: No. Thepropognl is to cut off a small corner, andto close that portion of Pat terson- street,so as to give a better frontage. In speak-ing on a measure yesterday I mentionedthe proposal referred to in Clause 4, deal-ing with the Pcrth-Fremantle-road. Theobject of the proposed alteration is to re-move a dangerous angle on the river road.The proposal has been agreed to by theVice-Chancellor of the University, the CityEngineer, and the State Gardens Board.The suggestion is that the road shaUl bealtered in order to remove a danger to thetravelling public. Clause 5 refers to cer-tain streets in the Perth Road Board dis-trict. It appears that some considerabletime ago, when plans of subdivision ref er-ring to the land which is affected werelodged in the Titles Offce, certain roadswere shown, hut that in some places whereroads were shown the lots were sold, andthat on this account the roads were notdeclared at the time to be public roads.Accordingly it is impossible to give titlesin respect of the land covered by the roadsthat are closed. The Bill proposes thatcertain roads in the area shall be closed,other land having been granted, by arrange-ment with the local road board, to opennew streets in the place of those which areclosed. These matters are of small import-ace to the general puiblic, but they cannot

be arranged without Parliamentary ap-proval. I have here plans of all the pro-posals, and I shall ask leave to lay thoseplans on the Table of the House for insoe-tion by hnn. members. I move-

That the Bill be now read a secondtime.OIn motion by Hon. Sir James Mitchell,

debate adjourned.

BILL-BITNBIRY ELECTRIC LIGHT-ING ACT AMENDlMENT.

Second Reading.

Mr. WITHERS (Bunbury) [4.52] inmoving the second reading said: In 1911,w'hen the parent Act was passed, the revenueof the Eunhury municipality was aboutF3,500 per ainnum. At that period the muni-cipality had borrowed about £26,000, and,their borrowing capacity being only £85,000,and they wishing to borrow a sumn of moneyfor the purchase of electric lighting plant,it was necessary to get an Act passed ex-tending their horrowing powers, inasmuchas the additional sum they wished to raisewould have brought their total indebtednessup to E38,000, or £3,000 beyond their limit.But for the existence of that Act thisBill would not be necessary, seeing that therevenue of the Barbary municipality isnow about f7,000 per annum. The town has

1665

1666 [ASSEMBLY.]

progressed, and the electric lighting hasextended considerably; moreover, the plantis deterioraiting. Theref ore the powersasked for under this Bill are necessary.The proposal is that the bor)rownig limitunder the parent Act shall be extended from£15,000 to £25,000. During the time thecouncil have had control of the electric light-ing they have raised considerable revenueunder thatt head. Particulars of the capitalof the electric light department of the Bun-burr municipatlity are as follows:-flaisedfromn loans, £17,000; revenlue invested,£9,897; less redemptions, £500, leaving ahalanre of £26,397. Sinking fund invest-ments in the Treasury amount to £4,980Ss. 10d., and accumulated profits at the30th April, 1924, total £844 18s. 5d. Thefixed assets stand at £,20,741 i3s., less de-preciation £7,248 1s. 1d., giving a net valueof £13,492 14s. 11d. If the proposed elec-tric scheme for the South-West comes intooperation, it wvill still be necessary for theBunbury council to borrow as here proposedin order to connect with the scheme. If thescheme does not come into operation, thecouncil will be in still greater need of theproposed borrowing power in order that theymay extend their plant. They have alreadyborrowed £2,000 beyond the amount theyare strictly entitled to raise. In respectof that £2,000 a validating Act might berequired. However, if this Bill passes thevalidating measure will not be necessary.

Mr. Taylor: I think it will.Mr. WITHERS: I move-

That the Bill be niou' read a secondtime.Mr. SAMPSON (Swan) (4.58]: 1 fully

agree with the shover that further borrow-ing powers, as proposed by the Bill, arenecessary for the Einbury municipality. Itis an indication of the progress of the prin-cipal port of the South-West that this addi-tional sum is needed. Its provision willmean greater facilities in the way of powerboth by day and by night. I do not in-tend even to ask that consideration of theBill be deferred. I support the second read-ing.

Question put and passed.

Bill read a second time.

In Commitltee, etc.Bill passed through Committee withou t

debate, reported without amendment, andthe report adopted.

BILL-CARNARVON ELECTRIC LIGHT-ING AMENDMENT.

Second Reading.Mr. ANGELO (Gascovue) F 5.0] in mov-

ing the second reading satid: The CarnarvonElectric Lighting Act of 1919 validated thePurchase by' the Carnarvon Municipal Con-.cil of the assets of the Carnarvon Electric

Light and Power Company, Limited, andalso ratified a loan the council had raised of£3,000 for the purchase of the assets of thatcompany. Section 4 Subsection 1 of theAct gave power to the Carnarvon council,for so long as the E3,000 remained unpaid,to strike a special rate to meet the interestand sinking fund thereon. Subsection 2provides that all the provisions of the Muni-cipal Corporations Act of 1906 relating tothe striking, levying, and recovery of ratesare incorporatedi in, the Act, and shall beapplicable to the special rate. That meansthat the Carnarvon Municipal Council havehad to rate every block within its area. Noprovision was made for the exemption ofany blocks. It will be seen by the plan ofthe town of Carnarvon that its boundariesarc extensive, approximately five miles bythree miles, wheieas the principal dwellingsarc all within a small central area. Ia con-sequence a lot of people living away fromthe centre of the town have been taxed fora benefit they have never been able to enjoy,for it has not been possible to supply themwit!, electric light. Consequently they haveappealed to the 'Municipal Couacil, and itis found that the only way to give them re-dress is by a special Act. The Bill does notask for any extra powers. It is merely togive relief to those who are unable to par-ticipate in the benefits of the electric light-ing scheme. The municipal council has beenable to pay interest and sinking fund inrespect of the loan, has paid off a portionof the original loan, and has in addition im-proved its plant. I move-

That the Bi I be now read a secondtime.Question put and passed.

Bill read a second time.

In Committee, etc.Bill passed through Committee without

debate; reported without amendment andreport adopted.

BILL-ROAD DISTRICTS ACT AMEND-MENT.

Second Reading.Mr. SAMPSON (Swan) [5.5] in moving

the second reading said: Under the RoadDistricts Act road boards have powers tomake by-laws and regulations. They havemany powers, but there is one that has notyet been conferred; I do not think that upto the present it has even been asked for.In the outer suburban areas residents intownsites are under a disability in that itis competent for anybody holding a blockof land to Open up a gravel pit quarry andmake excavations thereon. This means thata permanent scar is inflicted upon the land-scape and serious injury done to the dis-trict. Two road board districts particu-larly affected by the practice are Green-mouint and Armnadale-Kelmscott. Both road

152NVE=nA, 1924.]66

boards arc anxious to have power to refusepermission for the opening of a gravel pitor the making of excavations in this way.

Tire Minister for Lands: Are you tryingto give them power over private property,or merely over Crown lands'

'.%r, SAM.%PSON: Over both. Tt appearsfrom the advice given that it is competentto 2ive the boards this power. Under theHill anybody desiring to open up a gravelpit in a townsite or prescribed area nmustmake application to the local authority, andthe loavd thereupon shall decide. Tn theevent Of Permission being refuse0d, the per-son desiring to open up a gravel pit-

The Minister for Lands: Do you thinkthat 1, as Minister for Lands, or that theMinister for Works would give a local auth-ority such power over Crown lands?

Mr. SAMPSON': The Minister is infer-entially complimented by the Armadale-Kelmacott Road Board. Let me read aparagraph from a letter received from thesecretary of that board on June 6th last:-

It has long been felt by the chairmanof the board and others taking an inter-est in the district that a huge blanderhas been made in allowing such disfigur-ing excavations throughout the towasite.Up to the present, however, we have notknown how we are to intervene. It isnot the fault of the Lands Departmentthat these pits are here, for the land soutilised is privately owned.

I submit the Bill, not as an offering to the.testhetic, but as a Utilitarian nmeasure welljustified in the interests of those outsidecentres that arc rapidly becoming populous.It is impossible, without great expense, torepair the damage done by these excava-tions. 'Moreover, they, become a seriousmenace to the children of the district. forin wi~nter time they fill with water. Otherexamples of the effect of this indiscrliminateexcavating are to seen at Parlkerville andat Aft. Hlelena, two beautiful spots that havebeen injured by this practice. The publicare well protected, because in the event ofthe local authority refusing permission toopen a gravel pit, the applicant may appealto the liinister for Works, whose decisionbecomes binding. I move-

That the Bill be row read a secondtime.On motion by 'Minister for Works, debate

adjourned.

BILL - RESERVES (SALEAUTHTORISATTOK).

.Seconzd Reading.

The MINISTER FOR LANDS (Hon.W. C. Angwin-North-East Fremantle)[5.151 in moving the second reading said:This Bill is to enable road boards and otherbodies to sell and transfer certain lands,the proceeds of sale to be applied to theimprovement of the districts concerned.

This Bill, like the fornmer one, deals withmany reserves in different parts of theState. The first part deas wit!h a race-course at Albany' of which a 999 years'lease w-as granted to the trustees in thematter of location 839 for the purpose ofa racecourse. There is only one survivingtrustee, M1r. John Moir. 'The local au-thorities are of opinion that it would befar better to improve the ground they havenearer Albany under the control of thelocal council, and that they should be ableto sell this racecourse, which is a consider-able distance from the town, transfer anybuildings that may be on it, and use theproceeds of the sale for improving the re-creation ground, some 27 acres near thecentre of the town. This arrangement, sub-jct to the approval Of Parliament, has beenagreed to between the Albany council andthe trustee. In the township of Quairadingthere is an old building used as a roadboard office. The land was granted manyyears ago for this purpose. The districthas now greatly improved. The office isfound to be unsuitable and the local roadboard are anxious to sell and transfer thisland and to use the money for the purchaseof other Crown land, and the erection ofsuitable offices and buildings on the newlot that wvonld be acquired under the Bill.At flalwallian there is another lot similarlysituated.

Hon. Sir James Mitchell: They do notseem to have another block of land yet.

The MINISTER FOR LANDS: In Do]-wallinu it is proposed, if the local authorityobtains power to sell the old site, to erectbuildings at a cost of £2,300 on lot 154.The present building is unsuitable for therequirements of the district, and it is foundnecessary to provide larger premises. It isencouraging to find that various districts inthe State are increasing in size and popula-tion to the extent that it is found necessaryto improve the public buildings. This isthe reason why the districts I have men-tioned require the alterations that aresought in the 13ill. At Bencubbin, Lot 50is held by trustees on a 999 years' lease foran agricultural hall site. It is desired thatthe land and building should be handedover to the Mt. Marshall road board and theproceeds of the sale devoted to the erectionof suitable buildings on Lots 82 and 76 inthe locality. At Albany there are severallots transferred as education endowmentland, but there happens to be one lot whichruns through from the main street to an-other street, breaking the line of the landheld as endowment land. The trustees havebeen enabled to make an exchange wherebythey will give the back portion of dne ofthe lets to the endowment land and providean entrance to the street, and obtain afrontage along one street so that all theland can be joined together. T think thereis a brewery on the land and that it isclose to the high school. I have seen the

1667

I6~ i ASEMBLXY.j

place and agree that the transfer is neces-sary.

Hon. Sir James Mitchell: Have you seenthe brewery?

The MINISTER FOR LANDS: Yes, itis apposite the school. It will improve theland considerably for the trustees and willmake no difference to the private ownershipof the land. There was a blocki of landgranted at (leraldton for a trades hail.This faces a narrow street. Power issought in the Bill either to sell or exchangethis bluok tar Wtier land belonging to theCrown facing- the main street. This altera-tion would he of great benefit to the halland, no doubt, -would be of great advantageto the town.

Hon. Sir Jamnes Mitchell: Is there a haillon the land now?

The MINISTER FOR LANDS: It isnot yet built, but preparations are beingmade tar the construction of a ball oncethe exchange is effected. The Lands De-partment is satisfied, after investigation,with all these proposals and has no objec-tion to the arrangement with regard to thevarious road boards and public bodies Ihave mentioned. I have put all these thingsinto one Bill; otherwise it would have beennecessary to bring down separate Bills deal-ing with each one. I am fallowing the linetaken by the Leader of the Opposition ina matter of this kind. Previously we usedto get separate Bills for eacht one of thesematters. We can nowr deal with all thesethings at one time instead of separately.I feel confident that the passage of the Billwill give great satisfaction to the peopleconcerned. It is at the request particularlyof the road boards, municipalities and pub-lie bodies referred to that it is broughtdown. The Lands Department have no ob-jection to the transfers for it will make nodifference to the State, and will tend toimprove and beautify the towns in whichthe various lots are situated. I move--

That the Bill be now read a secondime.

Honi. Sir JAMES MITCHELL (Nor-tham) [5.251: 1 have no objection to offerto the second reading of the Bill, It is apity ta reduce the number of reserves inthe towns, no matter how they are heldor how they are vested in trustees forvarious purposes. Albany, for instance,will some day be a big town and I thinkthat will happen before long. The peoplewill want a good deal in the way of re-serves. By this Bill we are reducing thenumber of reserves tbere by one.

The 'Minister for Lands : There isplenty of Crown land outside Albany.

Hon. Sir JAMES MITCHELL: I am notgoing to oppose the wishes of the Albanypeople, but they must remember that theywill want mare -reserves before long. Atflencabbin one lot is to be sold and themoney is to be expended on one or two

other blocks elsewhere. The blocks huldby the board are in the main street, and,I understand, will be wanted for businesspurposes. I am glad the land is beingsold. The Education Department are wiseto make the exchange at Albany. I knowthe highl school is close to the brewery. Itmust be a small brewery.

The Minister for Lands: It is either abrewery or a bottling works.

Hon. Sir JAMES -MITCHEbL : It doesnot matter to this House whether thetrades hall people at Oeraldtoa, have powerto sell or not, but this Bill is certainlygiving a grant to trades hall.

The Minister for Lands: They have tobuy the land.

Hlon. Sir JAMES MITJCHELL: It is thesame thing as giving them a grant ofm on ey. The Minister has not providedthat the money obtained from the saleshall be held in trust by some public bodyantil the new laud is bought and the hallis built, They get power to sell providedthe proceeds of the sale shall be appliedto the acquisition and improvement ofanother site, but I do not see bow theMinister is to enforce the investment ofthe money.

The Minister far Lands-. I do not thinkit will be necessary to sell, for I think anexchange can be effectedl.

Hon. Sir JAMES MITCHELL: I do notsuppose it matters much, but it is reallygiving a bonus to the Trades Hal]. Wouldthe Employers' Federation get a block ofland if they applied't

The Minister far Railways: Ttic fait erSand settlers have a block in eve-ry mgtown.

Hopi. Sir .JAMES MITCHELL: It is notthe same thing. I dare say the Employers!Federation at Geraldton will apply for ablock of land.

The Minister for Lands: I thina yougave the Trades Hall the land there.

Hon. Sir JAMES MIl'CHEIAL. All goodworks come from this side of the House.I do not object to the Bill, but L thinkwhen the Employers' Federation ask for agrant, they should get it, The proposalscontained in the Bil11 ar, reasonable andare backed by the local authoriTiesq. Thisshould satisfy members.

The MINISTER FOR LANDS (Hon.W. C. Angwvin-North-East Freinantle-inreply) r5.301: The Geraldton block is in anarrow street and is9 not suitable for thepurpose for which it was acquired, andpermission is sought to exchange it foranother, or for permission to sell and pur-chase another. It makes no difference sofar as the Trades Hall is concerned be-cause the site which they purchase willhave to be used far a Trades Hall and theother site will revert to the Crown if itis not said. I think we can make arrange-

16C 5

(5 No.EMBER, 1924j110

ments whereby the exchange may beeffected with the municipality so that thesite will not be sold. That is the reasonwhy the Bill was drafted iu this muanuer.As a matter of fact thre 3s some doubtas to whether the Bill was actually uj-ccs-sary, but in order to make the positionclear, the Solicitor General expressed theopinion that it would be advisable to sub-mit the matter in this forat.

Question put and passed.

Bill read a second time.

it Committee, etc.

Bill passed through Committee withoutdebate, reported without amendment, andthe report adopted.

A.NNUAL ESTIMATES.

In Comittee of Suppiyo.

Resumed from the previous dlay. Mr,Lote ,Y in the Chair.

Departmenlt of the North-West, Hon.3, M. Drew, Minister (Hon. S. W. Munsie,Hfonorary Minister, in charge of the v ote).

Vote-Department of the North-West,

Mr. TEESDALE (Roebourne) 15.35]:There has been a little decrease in this vote,but it is niot very serious, and I amnot going to cavil at it. The decrease ismade up of a lot of small items, nnd noth-inq appears to have been seriously cut dlown.During the short period that the LabourGovernment bave been in powver there hasbeen a good deal of examination of countryin the Ximberleys, which to my mind is verysatisfactory. In that connection T am pleasedto think that we have a sympathetic Min-ister in the person of Mr. Drew. That Min-ister has been a resident of the lower Northfor many years, and although possibly hehas not had much experience of the Northitself, he has met many northerners andin that way has learned a good deal aboutthe importance of that part of the State.Tt is preferable to have people with experi-Pee, assuming control of a big district suchas the North. I notice that agricultural landhaq; been inspected and clasifled, and willbe thrown open next year. ft is vony diffi-cualt to speed up matters of this descrip-tion. because" the 'North is a district of tre-nlendou9 distances and it is difficult, and ittakes time, to get officials backwards9 andforwards. I am not going to take exceptionto any delay that may unavoidably occur,because T would rather hare the -Matter at-tended to properly, than to see it rushedthrough. I hope to see some tangibleresult next year. By what we havehi-n able to rend in the reports.

the ground appears suitable for thepurpose for which it is intended touse it, and a big consideration is thetact that the area is adjacent to the meatworks at Wyndham. Those works will be ad-vantageous for cotton ginning, fish drying,chilling pork, and anything that may be re-quired to be sent overseas, -and which mayneed storage pending the arrival of vessels.We have regular steamer connections be-tween that part of the State and the farEast, and no doubt in time we shall be ableto exCport something that those countries mayrequire. I do tiot think there will be any,difficulty in growing certain products in thefar North that we may be able to export intime. On the occasion of my recent visit tothat part of te State, 1 sawv about 450miles from the coast, patches of land thatpositively astonished me. I saw beautifulbananas growing in profusion end learntthat the owner had no difficulty in sellingthem at 10d. a dozen. Down here in theSouth we would be glad to buy such asplendid quality of banana at 10d. a dozen.Those of Its who have to pay 2s. a dozenfor an inferior fruit would be very glad. tosecure them. I also saw growing there,again in great profusion, dates and cocoa-n~uts. The place is Certainly inaccessible,and one would -carcely dream that it existed.I came across it quite accidentally. No oneseems to take much interest in it exceptwhen the owner goes to Hall's Creek andto other places to hawk the bananas. It ispleasing to be able to say that the owneris a white man and that with the exceptionof two or three natives he has no other help.One can travel 30 or 40 miles with-out coming across any sign of life.There is a dead silence, and not evena cricket to disturb the stillness. I assurethe House f am not exaggerating when Isay that in those parts one drops acrosssplendid springs that would irrigate 20miles of land without any difficulty. Thereis one called Mudapriag, 45 miles fromHall's Creek, and in regard to which Dr.Jack, who was a well known scientist,gave it as his opinion that it was part andparcel of a very big artesian basin. Butno one appears to take any interest in whatDr. Jack had to say about it. At pre-sent it is so neglected that cattle cannotLet a drink from it. The water is tricklingaway half a mile across the country. Itcould be conserved and could be made towater 300 or 400 head of cattle withoutmuch expense. ft seems to me crim-inal neglect to see these heautifulheaven-sent springs neglected in thisway. There are scores of them betweenthat particular place and the station calledSoakage Creek. This particular stationis in the vicinity of the border, but it isin Western Australia, and the groundis covered by a series of springs.Within a five-mile raius of this stationthere are 30 known springs, known be-

1669

124 [ASSEM-BLY.J

couse they bubble naturally to the surface.Na% attempt whatever has been made toopen them up, and the water goes to waste.Thirty miles from there magnificentfeed is to be seen and not a hoof ofstock to eat it. The drought in those partshas taught a lesson, and I saw abundantproof of that. There is more boring andwater conservation going on now, in bothEast and West Kimberley, than ever in thehistory of those twro districts. I madeinquiries and learnt that more windmills.had passed through Derby in the last sixmonths, than in the whole period of theport's existence.

Hon. S. W. Mmisie: Evidently they arewaking up.

'Mr. TEESDALE: The drought hasproved an unmixedl blessing. I also camneacross wagons conveying eight and Dineto-ns of bed logs, and between. 40 and00 donkeys yoked up, a sight seldomseen in that part of the State. Most ofthe development is taking place on Yes-tey s stations, where they are extendingboring anl other operations. Vestey's. arereinioving obsolete plants and substitutingothers at a heavier type. Generally,they, arectarrying on the work of develop-ment energeticallyv, and I am glad to sayit is not confinedl to that particular firm.I think I am safe in saying this is the-worst drought that has ever struck the Kim-berleys and the lower North. I am speak-ing now generally of the country fromOnslow right up to the Territory border.In reply to an unfriendly correspondent ofmine, who printed a statement that we'hadconfined ourselves to- the beaten tracks, Ipoint out that we went rieht inside theTerritory; and anyone by looking at themap wvill see that that embraced a ratherlong trek, especially as we called in at everycentre of civilisation from Derby op to theTerritory anid round by tbe Ord to Wynd-ham. Tihere were a few places inaccessiblewith the car, end in two or threc instancesthe natives bed gone out mustering, butthos-e were the only places we missed. Eventhen wre wrote and asked whether there wasantything of interest to report to the HealthDepartment. Ta give an idea of the droughton one station, while we were there theyshore 40011 sheep, and the nest morning2.000 of thoe sheep were 1.-ing dead outsidethe yards. Members will appreciate thatalthough wool is bringing a very fine pricenow, it needs to bring a flie price when theproducers of the wool are found lying withtheir toes turned up in that war.

Mr. 'Marsball: What about next year withall that stock gone?

'Mr. TEESDALE: Yes; in thousands ofinstances stock that has produced this high'priced wool is pow lying dead. This meansthose particular sheep have produced theirlast lot of wool. Without being pessimisticone expects a depletion of at least 50 percent, in the flocks. At the same time we

are not despondent. Let me not be mis-understood. We are not whining or weep-ing about the drought or the losses. Thereis no place which, given a few inches ofrain at the proper time, can make such awonderful recovery as can the 'North. Ttis hard luck that the drought should havehit us so hard, hut we are going to see itthrough, and it will not be long beforemembers hear of the land being grassedand stocked up again, and everything asprosperous as it %%as in years gone by.

Mr. Chesson: There is nothing like hum-idity to produce growth.

Mr. TEESDALE: That is so. I shouldlike the Stock Department to see that thestock routes are in good order next yearwhen the small miobs are being brought downfor the market. It is most important thatthere should be no smashes next year withthe fewv stock available. I am afraid weshall be short of fat stock next seasonfor tho Wyndham Meatworks. The stationshave run down their fats pretty low, andconsequently there is only young imnmaturestock on the stations. But small mobs willbe sent South in order to secure betterprices, and I hope the wells on stock routeswill be in good order. While I was inBroome a small deputation asked me to takeparticular note of the wells on the Ninety,Mile Beach. I did soj and noted down anyreplacements required, for the informationof the INorth-West Department. To showthe way in which my suggestions warereceived, the requisite material for the re-pairs has already been despatched to the

Notand the Commissioner has been in-structed to see that the repairs are effected.I was pleased to find that, although inEast Kimberley the position with the sta-tions is very serious, salaries and wageshad muchel improved since my previous visit.I was surprised to hear some of the ratesthnt pastoralists are paying at present. Theyindicate that matters are not quite so badas perhaps some of the absentee ownerswho run stations from St, George 's-terrac ewould have us believe. Pastoralists are pay-ing to stockmnen and yardbuilders £3 6s. 3d.a week and their keep; cooks cooking forover 15 men are getting £E12 to £E15 perweek and their keep--

The Minister for Railways: Where?Mr-. TEE SDALE: Drovers are getting

£5 Os, 8d. a week and half wages on theback trip-

The 'Minister for Railways: Where?Mr. Laniond: Do you think £3 Os. 8d.

suffiient for a stockman?Mr. TEESDALE: I am quoting figures,

and the Minister is querying whether thesemen are drawing so much; consequentlyhe would be pleased to know they aregetting it. Transport difficulties make itvery hard for cattle men up there. Theyhave had pretty bard times these lastthree years in the matter of the priceobtained for their stock, The Wyndhamn

1 _.j

[5 NOVEMBER, 1924.]10.

works have been a godsend to the smallcattle owners.

Ron. S. W. iMunsie: And to the bigcattle owners, too.

Mr. TEESDALE: Perhaps moat of thereflections east upon the works haveemanated from owners who were in thehabit of sending their stock south byboat. It is possible they have the capitalto enable them to ship their stock, whereasthe small owners have to run their mobsto the works. It is very satisfactory thatthe sm~all owners get the full market valueat the works, instead of having to sell tothe big owners for practically what theylike to offer. Though the price paid by the-works seems low, the small owners recog-nise they are getting the highest price theGovernment were in a position to pay,considering the very low figure obtainedfor meat in the world's markets. Toillustrate the transport difficulties in theKizaberleys, one important piece of machi-nery lying at Wyndham and required onthe Okes-Durack field was four months onthe road. It weighed 6801bs. and cost over£70 before it was placed on te groundwhere it was required. 'When memberstalk about the wonderful fortunes made inthe North and about pastoralists beingable to retire, they should remember thegreat expense involved in transport. Donot the Government consider it a fairthing to spend a little money to providewater on the main arteries leading ontfrom the coastal towns! There is oneroad via the Ord that eaters for a tre-mendous number of stations, and anothervia the Fitzroy. The mail coach runs fromDerby to Moola Bulla and the horses haveto he watertd with a soup lplate out of asand soak. I saw 48 horses so watered,and the operation took two hours, afterwhich they had another 30-mile stage togo. Better conservation should be pro-*vided on these main arteries. When teamshave to work on such a shortage of water,it is calculated to stop all progress.

Hon. S. Wl. Munsie: Are those wells eastof the roads

M r. TEESDALE: They are not wells;they are only sand soaks scratched ontof the bed of the creek. ft toox me overthree-quarters of an hour to fill a two-gallon bag at one of the soaks. I waslying at full length dipping down fourfeet with a small enamel pannikin. Icould Dot use a larger utensil, because itwould have caused the side of the soakto break down and care in. That indicatesbow scarce water is. To give an idea ofthe cost of living in the North-West, I sawlocal jam marked Is. 9d. a tin, and sideby side was South Australian jam at Is, 3d.a tin. That is something for our fruitfriends to think about. There is a con-siderable, discrepancy between the pricesobtained for fresh fruit and the price

charged for fruit in the form of jam intwo-lb. tins. in the' Northern townships.

.Mr. Lambert : The merchants boycottthe local article up there.

Mr. Thomison: Why should there be thatdifference?3

Mr. TEESDALE: The merchants appar-ently get the same profit on both lines. I1cannot explain the difference unless theimported article is landed at a cost thatpermits of its being sold at a lower price.To land a ton of chaff at the tram sheds 12nilles. from one of the ports costs 22s. 6d.How serious it is to have an article likechaff at famine price, members can realise.Petrol and chaff are the two importantitems being sent to the North-West. To~cart petrol the sanme distance costs20S. 10d.

Mr. Thomson: Chaff should be carriedmore. cheaply than petrol.

Mr. TEESDALIE: Those figures havebeen carefully compiled, and are correct.When people down here talk about theheavy freights on railway;, they shouldhe reminded of the rates that have to bepaid in the North. 1 consider the (Sovern-meat have acted somewhat harshly in in-creasing the freight on petrol and chaff.If there are two lines that are positivelyvital to the North during this fearfuldrought, they are petrol to enable us toget about the country, and chaff withwhich to feed the starving stock. Scoresof stations work only two or three hacks;they cannot afford chaff at the present-price. Most of -the station hacks havebeen turned out into the scrub to taketheir chance, and only two or three arekept to do the work about the stations.Here is another illustration for our fruitfriends. I1 saw a 281b. case of South Aus-tralian peaches which cost 25s. 6d. perease and alongside it a case of local fruitat 12s. 6d. ,The imported peaches were inmuch better condition than the local fruit.There is something very wrong that, withonly half the distance to transport ourfruit, we cannot land it in the North inanything like the condition that SouthAuistralian growers can land theirs. TheSouth Australian case was a nice, neat,lined case with five trays, the exactheight of the peaches. Each peach wascarefully packed in wood wool, so thatnot one atom of the weight of the uppertray rested on the one beneath. The re-sult was that not a single one of theseSouth Australian peaches had been bruised.Our local fruit had been sent up with onesheet of the "%VWest Australian" or the"Sunday Times" between each twolayers, and the boards were rough, jaggedjarrab. No doubt these were beautifulpeaches and in splendid order whenpacked and also when delivered at theport of shipment, but they had been spoiltby being sent forward with no wore pro-tection than a few sheets of newspaper. lIt

1671

172[ASSEMBLY.]

made me sore at heart to see our splendidlfruit reduced to a mush of pulp and news-paper. Is not this country full of timberand cannot we make light trays of wootUIt would not bare mattered how the SouthAustralian peaches were knocked about,because there was a pad of wood wol totake the jar. The South Australian casewas made of either Oregon or white pine.These facts are interesting as showingwhy there is no local market for our fruit.Our fruit has no market in the Northbecause our growers will not take, thotrouble to pack properly. Local grapes9,which cost 1s. pecr case in Frentantle,cost 16s. 6d. per case landed at the portsof the North. That means Is. a pound forrapes. I weighed a ease, and netted it,

and found that its cost, landed In thostore Up North, was Is. per lb. to startwith. Parents with ordinary pay in theNorth cannot afford to buy their childrenmany grapes at, say, is. 6d. per. lb. Again,Western Australia flopped in a jarrah casecontaining 2S1bs. net of plums and costing16s. 6d, landed at the store. That fruit,too, arrived in a condition which reflectedno credit on the packing methods of ourgrowers, and which did not give our fruit-growing country a chance, I hope themember for Swan will bear in mind someof these illustrations, and try to galveniseour growers into adopting better methods.

The Premier:- That's the way to talk to'him!

Mr. Sampson: There is a fruit confer-ene on Wednesday next.

'Ur. TEESDALE: I was amused to aceon the local counters a large stock of whatwas described as ''South Australian springlobster.'" Being a little curious, I pur-chased a tin, and found the contents to heour good old friend the crayfish. FancyWestern Australians buying South Austra-lian cray-fish as lobstcrs while our coasts areterming with thousands of tons of fish! Inspite of that fact we find a market 'here forSouth Australian "ecrays.'' That sort ofthing is simply deplorable. While I w-as inthe North it was reported to me that China-ina were supplying the local hospitals withstores. If that is a fact, no doubt the 'Min-ister will put a stop to it in about twominutes and a half. We do not want anyof our public institutions to be served byChinamen.

Hon. S. W. Munsie: Did the supply byChinamnen apply generally?

Mr. TEESTDALE%. NO; in only one insti-tution. T will give the name of the townto the Minister when I see him outside theChamber. Again, the Chinese cadet busi-ness has been very much overdone, and the'Minister might look into it. Too manyyoung Chinese arc coming here from China

ithe guise of cadets for the purpose ofeducation. I have been carefully noting theprocedure in a certain northern store withregard to four of these young fellows. They

la-ave been taken in hand by the local swhool-manster at aught, antl are showing great pro-mise. Incidentally, at one Of the northernschools the chief prizes were won by Chinesesehlars-a fact which makes one wondera hit, flowever, as regards the cadet busi-ness, the Chinese in the North are in thelanbit of getting young men over fromChina. They are supposed to be allowed toremain here 12 months. The mioment theyarrive, they begin to act as assistants in theChinese stores, That is unfair competition,because three or four smart Chinese boyswork all hours for no pay, while the unfor-tunate white storekeeper has to pay perhaps£6a a week to an assistant and £5 to a team-ster. The Preumier might make a mentalnote of this matter, and see what actually isthe law. I have inquired of Customs andpolice officials, hut ant unable to under-stand how these men are able to get exten-sions of their permits. One of them, I know,has been three years in Western Australia.The Chinese employers get in touch with theFederal authlorities, and they make up plaus-ible tales for the young fellows to tell. Thewhite stores are trying to observe the WhiteAustralia law, and pay fair wages to wvhitemen.

Mr. Withers: The same sort of competi-tion is encountered by the State ShippingService.

Mr. TEESDALE: I presume that is so.During the election campaign the presentPremier expressed the opinion that the de-velopmaent of the North is partly a Federalmatter. I am very glad to think the hon.gentleman concurs in the view which I ex-pressed in the course of one of tay speecheson tile Estimates. The N'ortha is very vast,and the distances there are enormous; andit is up to the Federal Government to helpuis in the tremendous contract we hav-c onour hands. Our endeavour should be to es-tablish small settlements in the coastaltowns, with a view to popularising theNorth, which at present has rather a badreputation as to extreme heat and otherdrawbacks. That had reputation is dueprincipally to tourists and others who haveviLsited the North and have been disap-piointed. Upon their return to the South theyhave spread extraordinary yarns calculatedto react disadi-antageously on -North-West.era settlement. We want to get the backcountry taken up first, and then T donot think there will be difficulty ingetting small scttlements establishedl onthe coast, since there will he work forsettlers. Certain facilities miust bce fur-nished to them in the shape of de-cent agricultural land, and seed, and sus-tenance while the crops are coming to ma-turity. Under those conditions we shall cer-tainly hare progressive little- settlementsalong the coast, and these will help to at-tract attention from capitalists, and espec-i-ally from industrialists, who may tackle tLething on a large scale after seeing that thesmall settlements are successfal. Great diffi-

1672

[5 Novn~dsn, 1924.)]67

culty is being experienced throughout theNorth as regards water supplies. Recentlythe western pearling fleet, which works southof Broome, had to go into Cossack becauseall the natural waters from Beadon, orOnslow, right up to Point ISainson, hadgone (IT rv, All the pestling boats had to besailed into the port of Cossack to fil upwith water. These are matters which areheard of only once i every year, when ,-heNorth-West Estimates are being discussed.

Sitting suspended from 6.15 to 7.30 p.mn.

Mr. Taylor d]rew attention to the stateof the House.

Bells rung and a quorum formed.

Mr. TEESDALE: Before tea I wasdealing with some of the probleilis of theNorth. I1 have heard members remark thatreople are getting sick of hearing about theNorth. If any member here to-night feelslike that, I give him warning to get out,for I am going to talk about th6 North fora long time. Perhaps the finest concretestructure in Australia is on the point ofcompletion at Beadon Point. We shiall havean important opening up there in the nearfuture and I1 trust the Premier, the Minis-ter for the North-West and the ex-Promierwill make a point of attending. The jettyis a great credit to Western Australia.Although it has proved an expensive work,yet when one remembers the cost of main-tenance of wooden jetties up there, it isseen, that the extra money involved in thisgreat structuire is a mere bagatelle. Someof those old jetties have cost £5,000 or£6,000 per annumi in maintenance, notwith-standing which their condition is as bad asit can be.

Mr. J. H. Smith: What is the reason?Mr. TEEBDALE: Teredo. I have seen

splendid jarrah piles put into the Wyndhamjetty and at the end of three years havetaken, out from thenm handfuls of decayedwood. So one can imagine the excessivecost of nmaintenance in such circumstances.However, there will be no such expense inrespect of the Beaden jetty. It is onlyjiust to that district, the oldest in the North-WVest, that it should have such a jetty. Atone time that and one other district sup-plied practically the whole of the beef andmutton for the south, so it is only rightthat the district should have facilities forsending away its surplus stock, which in atime of drought cannot be removed by road.It is about three miles from the old jettyto the steamers' anchorage and the lighter.ing fee is .5s. per head. So we can imaginethe cost that meant to the squatters; 5s.per head when they would have been gladto get 5s. for the whole carease!

Mr. Taylor: It was a big price for sheep25 years ago.

Mr. TEESDALE: It was. I am gladto know that the Whim Creek copper mineis likely to resume operations again in a

few months, when the necessary capital willbe forthcoming. All will be glad to seethat mine and its surrounding settlementagain prosperous. A very fine exhibit oftopper, estimated to contain 50 per cent.of metal, "-as purchased by the Governmentfor £:75, to be sent Home to the WemblyExhibition. However, that parcel practi-cally disappeared in transit. Instead of itsbeing sent Rome through our own depart-mient it was sent via Melbourne, and someof our very fine ore exhibits were positivelyspalled up, and only parts of it reached theexhibition.

The 'Minister for Lands: I am going tomnake investigations into that business.

Mr. TEESDALE: I am pleased to knowwe have a Minister who will look furtherinto it. Some of our finest samples wereleft in a Melbourne warehouse, and so faras I know are still there. I remember theday when, sitting on the opposite side ofthe House, I called attention to the possi-bilities of what might happen. It has hap-pened. No care was taken. tt was no-body's trouble. It was only West Aus-tralian stuff, and so it could be dumped inanywhere. I have made inquiries of friendsto see if any State was specially mentionedat the exhibition of minerals, but I wastold ''No,'' that it was all marked "'Aus-tralia.'" What a scandal that is; for thesamples were specially selected and £75 waspaid by the Governmeot for that specialexhibit, illustrative of a very fine body ofore that had] just been struck. It is scan-'lalons to think that part of it lb still lyingin 'Melbourne. I do not know what hap-peneod the coal exhibit from Collie.

Mr. Mfarshall: They used that to stokethe ship taking the stuff Home.

Mr. TEESDALE: Special samples ofgold ore were taken fronm Kalgoorlie, but Ido not believe they got Home in anythinglike a decent condition. I trust that if thereshould be another exhibition, members willobject to having our exhibits dumped inwith those of other States to our disad-vantage. To revert to the Beadon PointJetty, I want to say we have some very de-sirable workmen up there. Except forabout 20 minutes, there has not been anyindustrial trouble amongst them sincethe work started. On such a bigjob this is remarkable, and I feel thatthe House should know it. Notwithstandingthe many disadvantages and hardshipstinder which the men were working, the jobwas put through without any trouble. Alsowe have up there some very fine women.As ant illustration, I n-ant to relate anepisode.

The Mfinister for Lands: Be careful.Don't tell us too much.

.Nr. TEESDALE: About half-past elevenone morning a very fine woman plodded(Iowai through the sand and clambered overI alks of timber and concrete piers withher husband's lunch. She returned to herhumpy and in about five hours' time an-

1073

1674 [ASSEMBLY.]

other little soul was added to the popula-tion. Five days afterwards that womanwas up and about, doing her housework.That little baby was born in a 14 x 101 tinhumpy, and with the temperature ump-teen in the shade. That is the sortof women we have up there; no whim-ing, only a general recognition that theconditions are hard. That is the sortof woman we want to make settlement inthe North successful. What would some ofour dames down here think of those condi-tionst Yet hundreds of such instances hap-pen, and nothing is said. The women therejust go on with their work.

Mr. Richardson: How often does ithappen?

'Mr. TEESDALE: Not often enough forus up there, for we want as many as wecan get. If only we could establish somesmall industries up there and so give ourwomen and kiddies employment, it would bea great improvement. When one thinks ofthe vicissitudes of the pearl shelling in-dustr-y, one wvonders whether it wouldnot be possible to start a pearl buttonfactory in the North. We should manu-facture these buttons ourselves. Wesupply nearly all the commercial shellproduict of the world from the North-WVest. It is well-known that our shell is thefinest. Instead of getting the full benefitfrom this product, we pack it in cases, ob-tamned in Singapore for 10s. each, send itto London, sell it there, where it is manu-factured at tremendous expense into variousarticles, and bring it back to this State inits new forms. It would be interesting toknow what a ton of shell from Broome canproduce in the shape of buttons. Shell isnow worth about £230 a ton in Broonme,packed for export. Out of that ton ofshell there can be produced 2,240 gross ofbuttons, valued at about l~s. a gross inthis State. After deducting one-third forwaste we find that a ton of shell produces£1,320 worth of buttons. T have gone care-fully into the figures. When Dr. flickswas Minister for Labour in England for,about 20 minutes I went into the matterfully with him and we Vot these fign'res out.Ihave never given up hope of this industr 'y

being started in the North. It would giveemployment to the families we need so badlyup there. I am sure no Australian womanwould neglect to ask for Australian but-tons. There is no place in the world whereshell can he obtained more cheaply than inthis State. Why should we not derivesome benefit from it? In allowing for thewaste I overlooked the fact that the heel,of the shells are used for handles for mani-cure Fets, scissors, knives, etc. This partof mother-of -pearl brings a big price and isreally the finest part of the shell. Thebuttons are often made from the extreme Ii,of the shell. The back of an ordinary shirtbutton is often coloured, because it comesfrom the extreme rip. Nothing is wasted.Tie thick part is cut off before the shell

goes to the button factory, and is sold tospecial factories in Sln-fflid for manufac-ture into handles. With the two freights onthe shell and] the duty, there is no possi-bility of the imported button competinga~aiast the locally made article. Noc onewould bother to import buttons if they "-crcmade here. An inexpensive plant is all thatis necessary to start the industry. A unitthat would give employment to a hundredpersons, women, boys9 and girls, could helanded here for about £3,500. 1 supposeit would be preferable to start the industryat Broome. It would be a fine thing to dothis, for it would give employment to anumber of women and children. It wouldtake women's minds off the loneliness ofthe lives they live in the North. The pityis that our womenfolk in the North havever 'y little with which to occupy their mindsoutside their domestic work, and they canhave too much of that. The button-makingindustry is only light employment, and sol-diers who are almost crippled could workis' it. In several branches of the industryone hand only is required. All the branches,such as drilling, polishing, bending, card-ing and boxing are light. There is nothingheavy about any of them.

The 'Minister for Lands: If you paint itin colours that are too glowing w"e mightstart a State industry.

Mr. TEESDALE: I would not care whostarted it so long as it was started.

Mr. Angelo: Why do not the pearlersstart it?

M r. TE-SDALE: Becau~se they have notthe initiative. They think only of grabbingthe shell, sending it to London, and puttingthe price of it into the bank. Numbers of thepearlers are non-resident, and have not theinterest of the State at heart. I would notobject to the Government starting the in.donstry, but would not like them to go infor it too extensively. It would be a goodthing for the State to illustrate to thosepearlers what can be done, and say to themt'"If you have any interest or faith in theindustry, put 'your money into this and keepit going now we have proved it. We willhand it to you for the price it cost us.''We must have industries in the North toemploy the people who go there, We dowant something w-ith which to settle theselower parts of the coast, particularly peopI4with families. I wonder how many mem-bers knowv the huge wealth that lies alongour North-West coast in the shape of fish.H~as it occurred to them that here, indeed,in an industry worth starting? My home inthe Old Corntry is not very far from theflozger Bank, which is one of the largestfisheries in the norld. We also possess Romeof the most valuable shell fisheries there,apart from the edible fish. We keep a smallarmy of inspectors watching the bank to seethat immature fish and shell are properlyprotected. In this way a wonderful mineof wealth is kept always at the producingstate. It cannot be pirated or destroyed.

[5 Novnesa, 1924.] 07

Steam trawlers and fast cutters are em-ployed to rush the catches to the markets.A large army of nien is employed in thleindustry. Through my native town as muchas ten thousand tons of cackles are passed inone season, from about 35 banks. Hundredsof tons of whelks are sent all over the coun-try by the early morning trains, becausethey cannot be procured elsewhere. About1 / millions of huge crabs, some of themweighing 4lbs. each, are also sent away an-nually from the banks. This shows what canbe done when proper protection is given tomarine life. Some of the hauls of prawnsand shrimps run into 100 and 150 pecks perhaul. Five thousanld tons of mussles havebeen taken in one short season. There are 40smnacks, similar in size to our luggers inthe North-West, used for shrimpiug pur-poses. alone. I know of no place, however,where the prawns and shrimps are as plen-tiful as they are in our North-West. Onecan sit on a jetty at night with a hurricanelantern and net a bucket of the finestprawns up to 0 inches in length in a fewminutes.

,Mr. Corboy. They are not Doagara Cray.fish, re they?

Mr. TEESDALE: Sometimes shoals offish are so plentiful on the Dogger Bankthat they have to be sold as manure tofarmers. We are very jealous of our fishingbank;, and see that they are carefullywatched over. At one time the shrimpersand cockle men used the small edible crab asbait. This caused the banks to be depletedof crabs. A regulation was passed, and infour years the banks were carrying crabsto their full capacity. I: believe that Lin-colnshire produces some of rthe finestshell fish procured in England. Tilebanks are let in much the same waythat we lease allotments in Australia.They are pegged out into certain areas, nnda man with a small capital can take np oneof the banks. He then puts down his ownshell fish, after buying the small mussels,cackles and whelhks, and when they aremature sells them to shipping owners whocan take them to the nearest market. Thereare also thousands of tons of cod fish on theDagger Bank. Rt is a -wonderful sight tosee the thousands of cases of this fish goingaway an the night trains to all parts ofEngland. It is a popular fish, and thesebanks hare been yielding it for the last 70years. The supply of fish there is practic-ally unlimited. In the summer the fishare packed in ice and reach their des-tination perfectly fresh, although they mayhave travelled 500 miles. We could do allthis in the North. The fishermen on theDagger Suank aire a hardy race, and live avery rough life. They are drenched withspray from morning till night and exposedto every storm. I wonder how they wouldwelcome the change to our north Coast aftertheir experiences in the North Sea. Withour beautiful sunshine and lovely, cairn

weather, they would look upon it asa heaven on earth, especially when theyfound suehi hordes of fish eaeady ;to begathered in. Tf we could only get about10 or 15 of those men and place them onthat particular part of the coast, we wouldmake a success of the enterprise. The ex-perinment would not be expensive, end itmight be possible to use the services of theyounger members of the family to gathercotton that I hopc to see growing a little dis-tance in land. It might be possible to workthe two industries together. It would notbe costly to start a small settlement, and togive the men engaged in it a reasonablesustenance until they got the industry go-ing. I commend the suggestion to the Fish-eries Department. I would be glad to thinkthat sonic little interest was being taken ina proposal such as this, with a view to mak-ing a commencement. It would be a god-send to'some towns in th67 south to get fishin plenty. I have seen as many as 10 tonsof fish drawn ashore in ant haul of thenet. Once at Port Hedland the captain ofa vessel secured enough fish to fill six coalbaskets, and members know the size of acoal basket. After the residents of PortHedlaud had taken as many fish as theywanted a nuisance was likely to6 be createdby the remainder being left on the beach.The Health Department took action, and itcost the captain of the boat about £8 tohave the fish that were not wanted removed.I would not be the member for Roebourneif I1 did not inflict on the Committee a fewremarks an cotton, a subject that is perennialwith me and I shall continuei to force itforward so long as I have any voice left.In the local press recently a statement waspublihtd to the effect that Mr. Sutton'sword must he accepted as a guide to thefuture development of the North-West. Itake great exception to that statement. 1will not allow Mr. Sutton to be. the rideof the North-West; for even 20 minutes. 1have every faith in Mr. Sutton as an ex-pert on matters pertaining to agriculture,but not in regard to anything cotnnetedwith the North. Mr. Sutton has seen prac-tically nothing of the North. His experi-ence of the North consists of a trip by boatto Carnarvon where he went to see asmnall garden and banania patches twoor three miles from the port. The Pre-umier and the Deputy Premier also bad anopportunity of seeing this particular farmwhen they were udp there. In any case thatfarm is not a specially good illustration ofwhat is possible in that part of the State,because at the time of their visit it wasundergoing a little setback on account ofwater difficulties. Then Mr. Sutton took atrip from Derby to Mt. Anderson, and thento a block called ''Sawdons."1 The wholeof that trip was done by motor car on amain roard, and no deviation was made untilMit. Anderson was reached, a distance of 60miles. I am sorry to say the lady that

1675

1676 [ASSEMBLY.]

owns the particatar block does not appearto be very pleased by the treatment shereceived at Mr. Sutton's hands. Let thelady speak for herself. Here is a letterfromn her. She mays-

In the '"Primary Producer" of Febru-ary 24th-

She makes a bad start there.it is stated that Mr. Wise end Mr. Sut-ton made a trip through the Fitzroy Val-ley including the Yeeda. Plains, LowerLiveringa, and Udialla. Springs. Thejourney was sixty miles in length (as ifthat was a long way out). If Mr. Wisemeans to do any good in the North hewill have to go further out than that.Again, much exceellent land was seen, butthe bulk of this is inundated mostly everyyear. I am pleased they say ''almost"because it has not been flooded since 1915.The inundation has taken place twice intwenty years, whereas whole towns inQueensland, have been swept away and re-built.

It will be seen that that lady who wasvisited by Mr. Sutton and Mr. Wise wasnot impressed v-ery much by those gentle-men. I did not appreciate their visit either.I was opposed to Mr. Sutton leaving for theNorth because I know him to be a man whohas never been interested in the North, whowas never enthusiastic over cotton, in fact,he was rather hostile because a layman badcalled attention to the remissness of the de-partment in this respect. There are veryfew heads of departments who take thatkind of thing philosophically. They seemto get a set on an unfortunate outsider whodares to call attention to something in per-haps a crude sort of way. Anyhow, that isnot the proper spirit in which to treat mem-hers of Parliament. Departmental headsshould be only too glad to think that mem-hers are taking sufficient interest in a de-partmient to go out of their way sometimes,and at their own expense, in order to findsomething that will be of advantage to theState. The officers might give a member alittle help sometimes instead of alwaysdamnning with faint praise anything that hemay be taking in hand. I Propose to dlealbriefly with 'Mr. Wise's report on the richcoasital lands of the North, and then I shallquote a fewt comments by Mr. Sutton to givemembers an opportunity Of noting the igscrepancies between the report of the Ad-viser on Tropical Agriculture anl the reportby his superior officer. It looks as if onewas trying deliberately to discount some-thing that the subordinate officer had writ-ten.

The Premier: And] both are experts.Mr. TEESDALE: Yes. M-\r. Wise re-

port-The physical condition of the brown

loamt ensures perfect drainage uinder or-dlinary cultural conditions. The soil isadmirably suited to the growth of cottonand penuts, and its texture should beimproved by good farming of these crops.

The analysis of the sample taken willdoubtless show deflcieaciss-possibly themost important will be in phosphoric acid-but this land should be capable of pro-ducing very ninny payable crops of cot-ton and peanuts and other crops in ro-tation without the aid of any commeriealfertiliser. The area on Hay and Over-heu's lease, on the Durack River, consistsof over 3,000 acres of a uniform sandyloam timbered mainly with beef wood andbox. There is no surface water, but in-dications are present that good suppliesare at shallow depths. It is accessible bylaunch within 20 miles of Wyndham. Thesoil is much lighter than the allovials ofthe Ord River, very responsive to rain, andshould respond to every effort of cultiva-tion. It would suit cotton, peanuts, broommillet, and other minor crops. Many goodcrops of cotton could be secured withoutreverting to the use of fertilisers.

Further along Mr. Wise reports-The soil would grow cotton and peanuts

well, and it is quito possible that somemeasure of success would be achieved withearly maize.

He further adds-Altogether it seems that this area offeredan opportunity of settling some hundredsof families when the preliminary work ofproviding transport and other necessaryfacilities is undertaken.

It is satisfactory to know that this newcountry has been discovered practicallywithin the last three or four months. Theearner of the nearest station to that localitywas thunderstruck to find such marvellousrivers of fresh water there. I do not sup-poe anyone ever knew of the extent ofthose rivers up to the time of their discov-ery by the expedition sent out by the Gov-ermnent to explore that territory. That isthe particular country that Mir, Wise dealtwith in his report. I find that after the re-port was written, Mr. Sutton had this tosay-

My itinerary as planned in Perth in-cluded a visit to Wyndham, as this dis-trict gave the most promise of being suit-able for a settlement, and I was anxiousto see the class of country in the vicinityof the port. Arrangements had been madealso for me to visit the Forrest RiverMission, and if the weather permitted,ailqo the holding of Messrs. Hay and Over-hi-u, 'who had grown a quantity of com-mercial cotton last year. As however, the"Ilambra'' could remain only about twohours at Deorhy, end this was quite insuffi-cient for my requirements at that place,the proposed visit to Wyndham hadl to beabandoned.

That was nothing less than a scandalouswaste of money when one takes into consid-eration that an officer holding a responsibleposition such as Mr. Sutton does, takes atrip to the North, lands at Carnarvon foral-out 20 mirutes and drives around the out-skirts, and then proceeds to Derby, a place

1676

[5 NovEmBER, 1924.] 17

that has already been discounted by reasonof the previous visit of an expert. I can-not understand why the Director of Agri-culture should want to go to a place thateverybody knew hnd bad a temporary set-back, not through any fault of the landbut only b--cause of wretchedly bad man-agenment.

The Premier: Beside;, we had inspectedit; why did lie want to go there too.

Mr. TEESDALE : The Premier, theDeputy Premier and I had already in-spected it, and given our opinion and thatwas very satisfactory.

The Premier: Itt was rather a reflectionupon us.

Mr. TEESDALE: Undoubtedly; it wasa most satisfactory reason why no otherexport should have gone up there. Wehad been there and had decided that ithad never had a chance. The cotton wasas healthy as possible, a little stunted inheight, but when one considered the vicissi-tudes the plants hand suffered on accountof there having been insufficient rain, onocould congratulate the unfortunate menon having dune fairly well up to a certainpoint. The Director of Agriculture landedat Derby and took the 60-wile trip, pattingMrs. Sawdon into great consternation anddepressing her greatly by his derogatoryremarks regarding settlement generally, somuch so that she wrote and asked me ifthat was the sort of people we seat aboutthe country to encourage our settlers.

The Premier: I did not think Sutton wasa inan like that.

Mr. TEES9DALE: In this instance hewas. Re depressed this settler very much.Mr. Sutton went on to say--

Durinig my visit I met a number ofpeople who admitted that they bad notconsidered the importance of the inunda-tion having occurred in the North.

That is an extraordinary statement. Icannot imagine the Director of Agriculturehaving met anyone up there who was sur-prised to know that the land at times wasinundated. As these floods have occurredonly twice in the last 20 years, there is nogreait importance to be attached to thatstatement. Yet he met people who con-sidered this phase of the question. kshould like to have the names of some otthose people; I would interview them. Itthey did not overlook that fact, there areotter more important facts that they didoverlook. Mr. Sutton added-

At tlbs two centres I visited there is nolonger any boom in the cultivation orcotton, only tolerant interest.

Is there anything heartening about that tWhen we are paying this officer his salary,lhe might say something more encouragingthan to give out-to the civilised world thatthere is only a tolerant interest in cottongrowing that some of us have been tryingto encourage so long. 'Mr. Sutton went onto say-

The attitude is now one of tolerant in-terest awaiting the results from theDerby and other trials.

It may he news to Mr. Sutton that notrials are being made at Derby, althoughwe had a trial there. The tremendousamnount of money supposed to have beenexpended on these trials does not exceed£E6,00. We have heard about thousandsof pounds having been spent, but the ex-penditure has been distributed over aboutfive mission stations and two aboriginedepots. Nothing very serious has occurredup to the present, and there has certainlybeen no serious drain upon the finances ofthe State. TIhe paltry amount of £6,000,too, has keen spread over a period of 31/1years. In Queensland, serious setbackswere experienced, but the officials theredid not paint these pictures of distress anitfire Home cables tclling the world thatthe experiment made was a dead failure.Let me give members an idea of what waspending when thu disastrous cable wasdespatchbed to London. 'The cable washeaded ''Failure of Cotton Growing inWestern Australia." A letter I receivedrea d-

Re cotton growing for the West: Ihave had an opportunity of submittingthis matter to a gentleman welt eon-nected with the. cotton idustry in thiscountry and he is also folly aware ofthe developments taking place in Aus-tralia, and personally considlers Aus-tralia will become a big cotton producingcountry. He would also welcome thedevelopment of the industry so thatGreat Britain could be independent ofAmerica. I have shown this gentlemanyour letter of the 12th July aid, as aLresult, hie is taking steps to adviseo yourviews and the work you are doing tosome very wealthy cotton spinners inLancashire. He states there will be nodifliculty in obtaining capital to carryout your programme. It is possible Imay be, cabling you within a few daysto advise amount of capital required tocommence the industry in a sure butve-ry substantial way. In other words,only a big scheme must be kept in view.

That will give an idea of the class ofpeople with whom I was dealing. Theywere big people. There is nothing trivialabout that, it was a solid group that Wehad succeeded in interesting in our o-x-perinients. Mly letters had infected themwith a little enthusiasm. The informationdespatched had fallen upon good receptives~oil, and these people were prepared totake uip the matter. The letter continued-

O)n receipt of this letter, will you writeine as fully as you possibly MR.L over thewhole mnatter, sending any- Press reports%nd Government pinblie'ations in support,t your statements.

Five "days afterwards T reveived a cabi".meling heow mnuch capitnl was required amnd

1677

1678 ASSEMBLY.j

bow much laud was required to be takenup. Four days afterwards I receivedanother cable reading-

Owing adverse report in ''MorningPot" all negotiations off.Mfr. Taylor: Was it Sutton's report that

put them off ?Mr. TEESDALE : No, Evans'Is report.

This correspondence shows the extent towhich we had got 'with our little effort.Then all at once a man paid to come hereand give us a little advice and a littleencouragement rushed into print, andthrew the industry back for three yearsat least. Anyhow, we shall get over that.When we received from London the reportregarding the value of our cotton exhibitssent to the Exhibition, I was surprised tofind that the department again rushed inapparently to detract from another goonimpression that had been created. The few en-thusiasts. were delighted to think we haddemon cstrated that good cotton could begrown in the North-West, notwithstandingthe statements made to the contrary. Onewould think the department would havebeen pleased that we had shown the coun-try was suitable for cotton growing, butapparently it was net pleasing to the de-partment at all.

Mr. Mfarshall: Surely that cannot be so.r.TEDL:While we were con-

gratulating ourselves upon the good news,a departmental officer, Mr. Wise, rushedinto print with an article describing howthe pnlice had been misinformed, and howthe statements made were apt to be wronglyconstrued. He said-

All the, article said was that certainsamples had secured the world's averageprice.

It was very satisfactory to knew that we hadsecured the world's market price. We werenot supposed to be able to produce cottonat nll, but we did produce a very goodarticle. There was no necessity to belittleour achiievemecnt. Mr. Wise went on tosay-

No account is given as to the return peracre, and no actual return is given of theamount of lint derived.

1 do not know- why Mr. Wise wanted tocloud the position. It was enough for thepublir to know that we had grown a first-class sample. There was not the slightest-necessity at that stage to state the returnper acre or the actual amount of lint tothe pound of seed cotton. It was fine to knowwe had land that could produce such asplendid cotton as to bring 19d. odd. Yet .%r.Wise did his level best to create all sortsof comment and adverse criticism, as though'we had put forward statements that wereuntrue. It was an extraordinary attitude.Hie want on to any-

The information was insufficient andmisleading. No returns were given.Prices were dealt with as returns. Theassumption was that the actual settlementcould go ahead.

That woe another superfluous remark. Hemight have said there was no reason whyactual settlement could not proceed withoutfurther delay. Yet he says there is no as-sumiption that actual settlement could goahead. 'Mr. Wise also said-

There is no indication as to the profitsmade in producing the article.

I could have obtained the particul.arsif I had known in time, bat it washis duty to go into that matter. He wassupposed to be our agricultural adviser. Heaccounted for the splendid value by sayingthat a good season had been experienced.Apparently be was sorry that we had hada good season. It would have suited himand the rest of the department if we hadhad a bad season, so that we could not haveshown such a fine sample. Here we havetwo officials doing all they could to detractfrein a good impression create& of theability of the State to grow good cotton.It does not matter a rap what the seasonwas; it does not matter a jot what theprofits were. No matter how mbuch of thissort of thing we experience, it will not pre-vent the industry from becoming estab-lished. I am determined that so long as Ican voice my opinions, the establishment ofthis crop in the North-West shall not beblocked. It is bound to come. It may notbe in my time, but it may be rememberedby some of my younger friends that I pro-phiesied cotton would yet prove to be a bigsource of wealth in our North-West. Assome alight explanation of my friendlycriticism of 'Mr. Wise, let me say that Iprotected myself against something of thissort three years ago, when I concluded aspeech by saying that I recognised M,%r.WVise was from a State where he would belikely to learn a good deal about tropicalagricultoLre, At that time I was in posses-sion of information to the effect that Mr.Wise had had no previous experience ofcotton, being purely a dairying and banana-growing expert. Having so protected my-self at that time, I will say that I now haveless faith in Mr. Wise than I had then. Iwill say, further, that he knows very littlemore abouit cotton now than he did whenhie first came to this State. He has madesuggestions as to what should be done nextseason. The cotton crops now growing willshow fine results. INr. Overheu, who is atpresent in Perth, tells me there is a splen-did standing cotton crop. Mr. 'Wise hadnothing to do with that crop. The remarksin his report a to the advice bie gave tothe cotton growers and the agriculturists ofthe North fall rather fliat when one knowsthat the advice was limited to one or twosuggestions made at CarnarVon, suggestionsmoreover which were not appreciated. Theeditor of the Cannarvon paper expressedthis opinion about the late tropical expert-

We give an instance of the position. inour own district, where a little while agoefforts were made to induce people to goin for banana Culture. Some did so suc-

1678

[5 NOVEmmE, 1924.157

cessfully, but under our pernicious lawsthe Government department which is sup-posed to exercise a grandmotherly super-vision over the efforts of those endeavour-ing to engage in such industries hadpower, though the plants were healthyand had every chance of being a success,to order their immediate destruction, onthe assumption that they were iafectedwith some "microbe'' or other. Need-less to say, no one else has been foolenough to start in the same line since.

I was there at the time. The extent of thebanana plantation is not known to me, butI was astonished to hear the agriculturaladviser say that hie would have to order itsdestruc-tion. The northern settlers are verydissatisfied wsith the agricultural expert. Alady writes to tell me that for four mouthsshe was promised certain banana plants, asto the growing of which she had receivedinstructions. She has never heard anythingmore about the banana plants. I have herea short paragraph recounting the successfulefforts of a firm of drapers in behalf ofratoon cotton-

The success that is attending the effortsto make the growing of cotton a bigfactor in this State's development is duein no small manner to the firm of Me-Donnell and East, Ltd., drapers, George-street, Brisbane. About six years ago,when the industry was practically a deadletter as far as this State was concerned,five tons of cotton lint was the result oftwo years' labour, and this amount washeld by the Department of Agriculturewith the intention of selling it. For sometime the attempt to dispose of this cropproved unsuccessful, and the attempt wasalmost goingr to be abandoned when MYc-Donnell & East. Ltd., came to the rescueand purchased the whole amount withthe intention of using it in the makingof ''Duralite" quilts and mattresses.The firm state that the cotton has provedso successful in the makting of thesequilts and mattresses that they have sup-plied them to many hundreds of homesall over the State. The cotton has manyadvantages as regards quilt and mattregimaking, as it will not crumble to dustlike the ordinary kapok will do, and it iscertainly much warmer and far healthier.Naturallyr this firm are highly interestedin the development of cotton growing in*Qneemnnd, and look forward to branch-ing out in other big ways in the utilisingof Queensl and -grown cotton.

In this connection T wish to ncknowledqewith thankfuless that hut for the foresightof our 'Minister for Lands in objecting toour cotton going to Melbourne for exam-ination by so-called experts, not one ouinceof our cotton would ever have -unse to Wen-bles' Park. there to be labelled, for theinformantion of the ronmp'ercial world. assomne of the best cotton ever grown. If ourcotton had zons to 'Melbourne. some para-site would hare been discovered in it, and

that would have been the last of it. On thelast Estimates I took up considerable timein explaining the difference between ratooncotton and other cotton, and I must give alittle more iniorniation on the subject to-night. The determination of that old bat-tler, Dan Jones, has been succeessful. Ithas been proved that what he contended forduring many years is right, le foughtabout ratoon cotton. But the Queenslandgrowers sent him to London andAmerica to lecture, and be can nowrdispose of every bale of ratoon cotton grownin Queensland. Now that the ban has beenremoved from ratoon cotton, growers of itare in the happy position of being able todo exactly as they lie. In the interestsof a financial group in Lancashire, as I callthem, certain experts came here to delibtr-ately queer a certain type of cotton, simplybecause it was not suitable for their looms.They tried to block any cotton fromu leavingQueensland unless it passed through theirhands. The agreement the Lancashiregroup had with Queensland stipulated thatevery ounce-of cotton grown in Queenslandshould be sent to them, and marketed bythem at a price per pound. The agreementmade no mention whatever of ratoon cot-ton. The ban has been removed becauseotherwise ten Queensland members wouldhave lost their seats. Mr. Gillies, theQueensland Minister for Agriculture, diedvery hard as regards the restrictions onratoon cotton. He was determined to seehis Lancashire friends through. It wasvery difficutlt for the Queensland Govern-ment to got out of the position in Which liehad placed them. I happen to know thatthe Queensland Premier regretted the dras-tic action taken with respect to ratoon cot-ton. Buit the position could not he improveduntil pressure had been brought to bearby growers insisting upon the removal ofthe ban. We are now in the splendid posi-tion of being able to send rafoon cottoato China, or JTapan, or to any other partof the world requiring it. Its price is withinabout oue half-penny per pound of that ofother cotton. A Queensland cotton growernamed Connell relates his experiences thus-

In Augusat and September of ].922 Iplanted 1,O00 acres of cotton on the scrublands of The Plains. Mlost of it died,and had to be replanted. Again a secondand third time it died, and had to bereplanted.

That is the kind of people we want here--not the kind of people who at the first set-back howl like dingoes and say, ''rt can'tbe dose I Look what we lost at Derby!"7At Derby wec lost just about the fees of acouple of company directors.

Ta the end the crops were fairly thickand advanced. The season had been dIry;rain felt only a little, hut even so therewas the hope of a 1profitable harvest.There was little profit, but it was notaltooether discouraging. Arrrangementswvere made with share farmers to eredi-

1679

11 NIASSEMBLY.]

cats the old plants and set fresh seeo1.This proved an exceedingly heavy tasik,and was nat fully accomplished; the oldplants had to be hoed out, many clinginginches deep in the soil. Fresh seed-andGovernment seed at that-was sawn, butthe old plants still had roots and per-sisted in a rigorous and even aggressivegrowth, Entoon plants grew with miagichaste7 and the seed cotton dlied. The banwas fi. ratoun cotton, and T dared notloick the harvest front these hardy, clean,and herlth ' plants. All labour ineannt'-tinn with the plantation waswasteil, hut land I been allowedto pivk, I was assured of a handsomeprofit. I turned the plantation into a fieldof Rhodes grass, and let cattle in to grazeon the grnss and cotton plants, and theyfattened to a prime condition.

It is fine to read of a hardy battler likthis, who- planted the stuff four times indeference to expert advice, and then, by in-structions of the department, hoed out thecotton from which be was hoping to makemoney. The department told him it was acriminal matter to gather a ratoon cottoncrop. The edict had gone forth, and ratooncotton was dawned. Hle turned a lot,of slheep on to the plantation withmost excellent results to the stock.I have noticed onl several occasions thatin Queensland when they have taken theballs off the plants they have turned sheepinto the plantations and topped them up.flowerer, he says here-

The drought season continuing, theplants died in big lots. But eventuallyrain fell at the beginning of this yearand I have hopes of equalling at least75Olbs. to the acre. Mvr troubles were notat an end. The seed Cotton producedpests, lint it was remarkable that: myrtoonI craps were entirely free, and[ hadl

a harvest of cotton that was wonderful.Now we have Xr. Evans coming back tothe charge in the newspaper that hie hasfound sonic boll worms in some ratoon cot-ton somewhere. Whenever an attempt ismade to advocate the growth of somethingin W'estern .Australia, there is always alittle damning paragraph printed in thepapers. The article continues-

As anl instance I counted in the presenceof others over 129 boils on one stool, andthe texture of the cotton was such thatit ,uzzlcd one expert to declare whetherit was seed or ratoon. That baa, how-ever, wag against me and I could see noprofit in my ratoun area; nothing but avast amkount of experience. $ty seed areawas next touched by a series of frosts,and by May last I saw I would be luckyif I got 300lbs. fro 'm the acre, which Idid not get in many instances. Daringthe season I have had 50 to 70 pickers atwork onl the share systeni, and while therehas not been any direct loss to them thewhole has been extremely discouraging to'ine.

Then we learn that Mr. McConnell is show-ing his pluck by getting ready same 20acres for cotton on his -Marshlands property,and from the ratoons of this he believes hewill eventually score success and profit. Allthis is9 ratter long, but it is very fine toread the experiences of a battler like that inpersisting in again putting in his crop, andevidently making a success of it this season.Now' just bear what 'Mark Pay says on thequestion of ratoon cotton-

I was delighted at the triumph of yourgrowers in the battle for cotton, and suc-cess is now assured for the industry, asthey) hare already refused to handleratoon-titer call It volunteer cotton inAmerica-and the farmers cannot now berefused permission to sell their productto anyone in the world who wants it.

This Ma-rk Foy is a merchant in a, big wayin Sydney. It is satisfactory to think that hetakes sufficient interest in an industry inwhich at present he is not financially con-cerned. He is glad to think that we aremaking a bid to supply the Empire withsome of the cotton so badly needed, andQd'ch at present has to be imported frontAmerica. He says--

We shall have men, -women, and childrenoffered free return fares from the southto come and pick the Australian cottonharvest, just as we hare the shenrers'camps f or the wool, only the cotton is amore cleanly prospectI more open andhealthy. This is part of a vision I cansee ahead in, say, five years' time.

It is very interesting to bear the commentsof a. merchant prince like that. Now I mustread ne little paragraph respecting Mr.Jones's visit to America and England.[t shows that my championing of thatgentleman has been amply borne out, and itis a eonfinnation of the satisfactory selec-tion I made when asked by the late Govern-menut to choose a cotton grower to come overhere and show us where and how to growthis valuable crap. Here is the paragraph:-

At a mass meeting of cotton growersrepresentative of the whole of the Daw-son Valley the following resolution wasunanimously carried after many speaker.had expressed the deep sense of gratitudeuinder which 'they felt the cotton growersof Queensland were placed-This meet-ing expresses its admiration of and con-fidence in Mfr. Daniel JTones who in theercuing of his life is so worthily justify-ing the implicit trust we have always. re-posed in him.

lIt is fine to hear of a meeting representing700 delegates of cotton growers in Queens-land applauding a gentleman who year inand year out has fought the growers' bat-tles. It is fine to see that those growersrecognise the value of his services. Thegrowers of Queensland freely admit theyowe a very heavy debt of gratitude to theuntiring efforts of 'Mr. Jones. The u nion haqtaken up the matter of securing for him

WISO

[5 NOVEMBER, 1924.] 18

some measure of appreciation, and a sub-scription list is to be opened forthwith sothat all and sundry may contribute towardsthat desirable object. Many of us have beeninterested in the fight Ifr. Jone" has beenputting up for us and we are glad to seethat he has been so successful. While we inthis State have been using our utmost en-dleavours to get cotton growing started, itlies become an established industry in Meso-potamiia. It is a dreadful reflection on thisState that, starting off scratch at just aboutthe same time as we ourselves first started,that heathen place, -Mesopotainia, hasnow got 4,000 acres under crop anid1,000 hales of cotton were expectedto have been exported last year. Yet pre-vious to 1920 nothing whatever had beendone in Mesopotimia in the way of cottongrowing beyond the putting iii of a feivexperimental plots. In that year 80 acreswere grown under the supervision of the de-partnient and fihe average yield was 1,250lbs. in seed cotton. In the following yearthe area under cotton wvas about 600 acres.Yet imp to the present we have been able tosend away at the very outside only 2K% toinsof cotton. Ts there here any reflection on thedepartment responsible for this sort ofthing in Western Australia? floes it meanony lack of confidence on the part of thoseofficials that we should let Mesopotaniabeat us in the way she has done? I thinkuyself there is. if I were the head of a

department responsible for introducingev-erything the country could profitalylarotv, I should feel that it was some re-fleetion on mec. Undeniably the Director ofAgriculture has no time for cotton. He neverdid have. He was never interested in flmecrop. He, was annoyed to think thatit was up to him to go to the North, andhe got back as quickly as he could. Hewent to Derby and wag taken out 60 milesin a motor car, but he rushed back to tilesteamer and away to where the climatic con-ditions were a little mo favourable. I wasstruck on'reading in one of the papers thata certain member of another place had beenon a very long and arduous journey duringthe election period. In a recent speech hesaid:-

Travelling as I have done during the re-cess, I have observed hundreds of milesof country unoccupied by a single pc-r-son.

Reading that, one would think he had had along journey with mnany experiences in thebush. He is a member for the North andI want his utterances to be valued at theirtrue worth. He went up by the State boatbecause it is much cheaper. Onl the Singa-pore boats members have to pany their ownfare. At several ports along thle coastthis gentleman did not bother to leavethe jetty, or not to go further than tothe nearest hotel, and then back againto the boat. At Biroome an elector wantt-dto see him about an important matter,

but the water was a bit choppy and itmeant going ashore in a launch, so thismember of Parliament, not feeling too brave,asked a colleague to go ashore in his steadand see what the elector wanted. Then ourfriend went on to Wyndham, another stren-uous trip, where hie was shown over the meatwvorks. He expressed astonishment at tilevery good management of the works. Pmo-viously he had been entirely hostile to theworks and had lost no opportunity of jeer-ing at them, However, on this occasion hestopped to praise instead of blame. He an-nounced his intention of making a publicstatement at the first opportunity. He didmake a sort of broken-legged recantation ofhisl previous statements. It was but a poorfulffilment of the promise he had made toone of the officials. From Wyndham, ourfriend went round to Darwin.

The Premier! That was a risk.

Air. TEESDALE: Members will recog-nise thle fearful wear and tear upon him.He was within easy access of ices and gill-ger ale, and no doubt had a very rough trip.After a braia-racking period of 24 hoursin Port Darwin he amaesses all the localinformation and goes back to a certainplace by State steamer. He then churnsoff the information he has picked up onthe dleck of the steamer as if it were some-thing hie had discovered himself. I haveno compunction in making my remarks asprominent as possible. I want this par-ticular individual to recognise that if liecan say offensive things, and does not carewhether he pleases or offends, others canlgive him a little of his own medicine.

The Premier: I am not able to place himyet.

Mr. TEESDALaE: He is a native of theState. He speaks of this wonderful tripas if he had bad a rough time. He wventstraight fromt Fremantle tinder very com-fortable circumstances to Darwin nod camestraight back again. He then turned onthis Thin, record of -what he had done, andspoke of the unoccupied country be hadseen through the portholes of the steamer.What do members think of a man who willdeceive the country into believing he hashad this wonderful trip when he has noteven seen the station he owns in the North?Hie has a cattle station there andhas never been to it. This memberfor the North has never been morethan .50 miles from the coast since hehas represented that part of the State.He is a nice individual to run down thebiggest optimist Australia has ever known.He is a counterfeit who talks about thegreat North-West, and yet does not knowwhere his owrn cattle station is. His menon it have never seen their boss. On oneoccasion this man said, 'IT know this Statefrom A4 to Z " God kniows what he classes

na representitig this State. His partnerlamne to Wyndham and implored him to goto the station, but he did not like the look

1681

I 6S2 ASSEMBLY.]

of things and probably preferred to stayon the good old ''Bambra." I hope thisman 'a remarks will be taken for what theyare worth in the future.

The Premier: I thought he knew everyinch of the North.

Mr. TIEESDALE: I believe the Premierhas been further than he has.

The Premier: I did not lose sight of theship once.

'.%r, TEESDALE- Re has never seenHall's Creek, Turkey Creek, or FitzroyCrossing. He is what I would call a port-hole politician. Re knows a good dealabout what he sees through the screen ofa motor ear or the porthole of a steamer.This is the man who decries our northernenterprises and runs down the meat works.Re went through there so quickly thefirst time, that people thought he owed alot of money and was trying to get away.This time he had to make himself a littleconversant with things for fear someonewould catch hini napping. He was sosolid in what he said about the meatworks that he informed someone he wouldtake back what 'he had said at the firstopportunity. This man runs down theState steamers, but is not backward intravelling by themi when it suits hispocket. Of course he travels on themfrom patriotic motives.

The Premier: Unlike most of us.Mr. TEESD ALE: On one occasion this

man cajoled a past manager of a steam-ship company into giving him a contractwhich was opposed to the interests of theState. Nut content with having bludgeonedthis contract out of the main, he akitedabout with it to show his colleagues whata splendid deal he had made, and how hehad dropped the State in for goodnessknows how much. Not content with thatdirty business, he talked about it all overthe country. This man in 1914 Imploredthe Labour Government to face the posi-tion. He said he was not going to put aShilling into their hands until they hadproved to him what they had done with themone 'y they already had. One would havethoughit the Government had hawked fishthrough thme Streets and kept the money theyhad received for it. This was when theState Insnrance Bill was being discussed.He said, ''Not one penny of my moneygoes into State insurance until you accountfor the half million deficit on Statesteamers.'' This is the man who is alwaysrunning other reople down. He noses aboutin company with another muck-raker tryingto ferret out garbage, and w hen they thinkthey have found a bit, they mouthand nozzle it about in the gutter likodingoes. They are always on the lookout for loose screws. They never sayanything encouraging or helpful to thec ontry. They are always on the lookout for things that constitute a littleset-hack and anything that is derogatory

to the State. They will do anything todiscount or insult someone of whom theyhave asked a favour and been refused it,and are always ready to reflect upon any-one who will not take them at their ownestimate. They never lose an opportunityof abusing Ra misrepresenting a certainindividual who would not give them whatthey wanted. It almost gives one influenzato talk about them. This man said inconcluding his speech that be did not carea rap whom he pleased or offended; hewas quite indifferent.

Mr. Wilson:, Who is helMr. TEESIDALE: This man has only his

friends who are as venomous as he is.There are about eight of them. Hle hassickened and disheartened hundreds ofsettlers with his wretched, depressingtalk about overhead costs and tbe tre-mendous expense of clearing tbe groupsettlements. Re has done more to dis-hearten the group settlers than 50 mem-bers of this Chamber put together. Thereare plenty of men on the groups, pre-pared to be contented end loyal and to stickto their jobs, he has always completely dis-heartened. He has advertised alt over theworld that .our group settlements are in arotten condition. He never did anythingsince he has been in the Rouse of a help-ful nature. He has depreciated everything.He is always doing this sort of thing al-though he is a son of Western Australia.He Ought to be ashamed of himself fordecrying the country of his birththat has been SO good to him. Itpractically dragged him out of ohscurity.He would he in obscurity still but fort1w splendid way the North has treatedhim. It ?-'rtainiy deserves more attention,and Sympathy at his hands and more ofhis money, for it is out of the North thathe made his moneyL in years gone by. Itis a poor return on his part to run downthe country that has been so good to him.How are we likely to get people to go tothe North when we have these damnablethings printed in the newspapers? Mr.Lovekin described the agreement madewith the Imperial authorities by the lateGovernment as stupid, lie went on tosay-

The State contracted to take 75,0001people at E8 a bend, which would nutpay the cost of educating their children.Unless the State settled so many peopleand brought out so many more, it couldnot claim under the agreement. Reblamed Sir James Mitchell, the latePremier, for not getting better terms.from Mr. Amery, who, after making theagreement, had gone to the Rouse ofCommons and had "bragged about thegood deal made with Australia."

Dr. Saw defended Sir -James Mitchell andchallenged the authority of 'Mr. Lovekin'sstatement in regard to Mr. Amery. Hereis another penny balloon busted ! This

1682

[5 NOVEmBER, 1924.] 65

man is always making Statements andhaving to apologiso for them. He insults

sand vilifies judges but acknowledgesthat he has made a mistake, and tries ina broken-kneed manner to apologise. Hleis always baying to withdraw something.Here is a fine paragraph which says-

Our calamity bowlers are the greatestcurse with which Australia is afflicted,was the declaration of MXr. E. J,. Brady,the noted Australian author, in thecourse of an address at the last weeklyluncheon of the Victorian Institute ofAdvertising MYen, These itmisery may-chants,"1 lie said, were men of low in-telligence and imagination, and tried tobide their shortcomings by condemningeverything. When it rained they sawnothing but the possibility of a flood,and when the sun shone they were s5urea drought was coming. No country hadlsuffered more from this class of personthan Australia. The first calamityhowler was the navigator IDampier, who,after landing on the shores of WesternAustralia and seeing only a very smallportion of the continent, described it asthe most miserable country in theworld. If the voice of this and other" 'howlers" had been listened to, theAustralia of to-day would never havebeen created. Australia needed men of~-faith and vision, and to counteract thework of the pessimists a healthynational publicity, both at home andabroad, -was necessary.

This is the sort of thing we want and thekind of paragraph we should have alwaysbefore us. We have wonderful opportuni-ties in the North. Members must not gottired of hearing about it, because it willprove sio valuable in time if Parliament.%will give it a chance to become settled.and will make provision for the populationto go up there. Some mooney must be spentin preparing the ground before we takeany risk about settling people. I broughtup the two small industries, fishing andpearl-button making, because so littlecapital is required to start them. I amparticularly keen on the pearl button in-dustry. We know that every man hasabout six buttons on a certain garmentthat he wears, and he might have a fewmone on other garments. Every womangoing into a store should say "I wantBroomne buttons-noine of your Austrianproductions.'' There should be a fineprofit for the maker, the sheller, and theretailer. That is why I want some ofthese smeller industries started in theNorth, to see wbether we cannot get some-thing in the way of settlement along thecoast. Let me tell the House now whatthe gentleman to whom I have been refer-ring said in connection with the meat-works. He declared that thousands ofpounds had been spent in renewing the

roofs of the works. Statements of thatkind do a lot of harm. In connection withthe meat works it is understood by thosewho take an interest in them, that it baabeen through circumstances over whichwe have not had any control, that theworks find themselves in the position theyoccupy to-day. We have had bad seasons,stock has been low in price, and we havehad bad luck on the London market, while,at the same time, it has been discoveredthat we should have had more storageaccommodation. When I was up there 1went into the question of renewing theroofs, and I found that what had beensaid was a grass mis-statement, in fact, itamounted almost to a deliberate lie. I donot know how this individual could havegot the idea because there has beennothing done to justify whatt he sad. Theroof consisted of a ruberoid material, andit bad decayed and would not carry offthe water properly. It was decided to re-move that ruberoid which had been therefor four or five years, and to replace itwith asbestos. It was rotten to makestatements like those that were published.I was able to prove that what he said wasnothing less than a fabrication. T believethe new material is proving a great success,The same individual said that therehad been extensive renewals of plant.That was another gross mis-statement.Nothing whatever has been renewed so faras the plant i4 conerned, with the excep-tion perhaps of the steam launch. The oldlaunchi did very good service, and was oftenplaced at the disposal of the public at anominal sum, and was used by the publicin cases9 of emergency. Evidently it wasfound that there should be a renewal.

The Minister for Lands: It was allrightuntil it struck a rock.

Mr. TEESD ALE: That is a fact. All themaintenance charges are included in theworking expenses. The individuial declaredthat no maintenance charges were shown.What sort of people arc they that deliber-ately make these mis-statements that arepublished at the expense of the State? Weshould protect our industries on all occa-sions, and we should be careful not to makeassertions that are not true and that canonly result in harm being done to the State.I contend that both the individuals to whomI have been referrina have done more harmto the State than all the other members ofParliament nut together. In dealing withthe Closer Settlement Bill the same indi-vidual had the colossal impudence to assertthat we were dispossessing People of theirlaud and putting indigents in their places.Who is he that he should dare to sneer andinsult people comning from England, peoplewho are as good as, if not better than, hehimself is? He described them as indigentsfrom mean streets. They come from a coun-try that few years ago helped to feed, fin-ance and cloth half the world, a land thatassisted every other civilised country, and

1683

1684 [ASSEMBLY.]

that impoverished itself almost to insoil-veuvy in helping others, Is that a countrythat one should speak of disparag-ingly' and say' that the people from it wereindigent and came from mean streets? Whatdo we know about the mean street in whichthis individual lhimself was born? Hle mighthave been won in a raffle for all Iknow. Is it a c-rime for a man to be in-digent ? Plenty of the indigent poor aregirls and boys wrho have been earning their12s., 16s., or 1s. a week in mills. Thosepeople gave their mite whenever an ap-peal was made. That mite, too, wast equallyas important as the cheques that have beengiven sometimes ostentatiously by these in-dividuals, and perhaps sometimes given toinstitutions with the expressed desire thatthie donation should be kept dnrk. I won-dered the other day whether there Was anyconnection between what the Minister forWorks said in referring to cheques given oroffered to is party by people who desiredthat their names should not be disclosed, andcheques, the giving of which wats advertisedwidely. I am sure members will be glad toknow that I an about to conclnde. I cannothelp but call attention to A few remarks Imade when I was sitting on the other sideof the House. I have carefully treasuredthe report of those remarks, and will re.peat them now as they are very apropos.Before tlhat, however, I would like to tellthe House wvhnt was said by Mrs. PhilipSnowden, of the British Labour Party,who, to my indud, is a very capable lady.These few lines are headed ''Nothing bu~tPair Play,'' and they read-

I have often heard it said in days goneby that a Labour Government would neverhave fair play, because it would be sabo-taged by the Court and the permanentCivil Service. These fears have beenproved to be quite unfounded. Prom theK~ing downwards, throughout the CivilService, the Labour Government have hadnothing but fair play.

It is sattislfactory to hear that from awoman like Mrs. Snowden, who has strongand pronounced ideas. Now I will repeatwhnt I said when I was sitting opposite-

In conclusion, I trust that our friendsopposite who accorded the Governmentfair treatment last session will act simi-larly during the present session. I am.sure they are moderate and reasonablepeople, th~ough there may be one or twoextrenlists amongst them. In their heartsit is their desire to see the State movealong scesuland I am sure theywill help all they (-an to further its in-terests.

Next conmeps the most important part of thelot, and I want members opposite to listenand Dot forget it. It was a very unfor-tunate prophecy on my part. It hap-pened only too quickly-

They may find themselves on this side ofthe House in the not distant future, and

therefore while they remain in oppositionthey must set a good example so thatthose who follow thenm on those benchesmay know what to do when the positionis altered.

No oue on the opposite side of the House,,an take exception to those remarks. Itwill be good to bear in mind what I saidbecause it is most irritating n-hen anyoneon this side desires to get sonme information,to find that it cannot be obtained, remem-bering at the same time the generous treat-ment that has been meted out by my chiefand his followers towards the Governmentduring the passage of these Estimates.Such support has never been known in thisHouse. There has not been one jarringnote front this side. Whatever hold-up thathas taken place has come fromt the Govern-,uomt 's own side.

The Premier: You are only followingthe example 'ye mit when we were in Op.p)ositioni.

Mr. TEESDALE: Actually the opposi-tion has come from the Governnment's ownside! I trust that these remarks will makeone or two of the 'Ministers feel consciencestricken respecting their treatmeut of mnem-hers on this side of the House wheneverdetails regarding a particular subject havebeen sought. iMembers opposite should alsobear in mind that we did not leave ourbrains behind us when we perforce had tocross the floor of the House; we broughtthem over here with us and we still have theremants of what the public recognised wep)ossessed when they kept uts on that sideof the House for six years. Therefore letmembers opposite treat our suggestions withithe respect that is due to then, and notsnap and bite as one or two Ministers do.The Premier is looking so troubled that Iassure him I am Dot alluding to him. Iwish to quote from a local paper a few linesthat were written after the -Mitchiell Govern-nent wvent out of office. 'Members can re-

cognise the source front whence the come-nient cane-

Those who have for so lonig filled therole of apologists for every act amd deedof the late Premier, will strive no doubtto use the breathing time which is inevit-able as a scourge with which to flog newMinisters.

I call attention to the fact that we havenot dlooe anything of the kind. On thecontrary we have given every help with allthe legislation that has been brought for-ward. The writer of that is lying again.He says the people, however, are discerningand with past experience before them willrefuse to listen to further wily temptationswhich portend disaster. That is verydramatic and entertaining. It is pleasingto know that we have not done anything ofthe kind, but that OUr relations with wiem-hers on the Government side are just asfriendly as when we occupied the seats onthe right of the House.

[5 -NoVEMB&ER, 1924.168

Mr. ANGELO (Gascoyne) [9.30]: Theolder members of the House %ill rememberthat for agme years after I was returned,I never missed an opportunity to directattention to the necessity f or developingand populating the North-West As timewent on and I was able to travel in thesouithern and eastern parts of the State,f was forced to the conclusion that it wasimpossible f or anly one Government to dojustice to the whole of this great State.We have in the soutbern portions of theState, the makings of a second Victoria anda second New South W~ales, and I feel thatto develop and populate the North-Westis beyond the capabilities of the State Goy-erment. Having realised this position dur-ing the last two or three years, I have beenitrying to induce the Government to pointout to the Federal and British authoritiesthat they, too, should take a hand with theState in developing our North-West. Thereare great possibilities in the North-West,of which we have heard in the very finespeech delivered by the member for Roe-bourne. There is also a very rent menacein the North-West. The North-West de-serves developing; it will pay to develop it.It has the makings of a second Queenslandif only itis developed and populated as itshould be. Therein lies the greatest menaceto the safety of the Empire in leaving thathuge portion of the State unpopulated andundeveloped. It has often been pointedont that adjacent to our coasts are millionsof coloured people increasing at the TRteof 5,000,000 souls a year; yet in the wholeof Australia we have only a little in ex-cess of 5,000,000 people. This is why weshould urge upon the British Governmitthe necessity for their taking a hand, withthe Federal Giovernment, in the develupeneutof our North-West. I was pleased to hearthe Premier take that view ina his BudgetSpeech. Certainly lie did not mention theBritish Government, but lie said definitelyit was the duty of the Federal Governmentto assist this State to develop the North.Iwould have liked him to join the BritishGovernment in this great task. I am notgoing to dwell on the great possibilities ofthe -North. Alter having lived for manyyears not only in the Gascoyne, but also inthe Roebourne and Pilbara districts, I canendorse what the member for Roebouirrehas said as to the great possibilities await-ing development, There is the cattle indlus-try not developed to one-half or even one-third of its capacity; there are the hugeareas that will carry sheep; there is thjewonderful wealth to be obtained fromagriculture when we realise that on portionsof the North-West coast are provinces witha rainfall of 30 to 60 inches. There islikewise the wealth in the seas going towaste. It is futile, however, to keep ondrumming this into time State Government.It is always pleasing to hear a man admithis limitations. The State Governmentshould realise their limitations. They

should say, ''We should like to see theNorth-West developed. It is our duty todo that if we can, but we cannot do it.We must get assistance elsewhere.'' It isa duty the Government owe to the State,to the Commonwealth and to the Empire.I do not think the British people or eveaFederal statesmen really realise the greatdanger due to leaving this great stretch of2,500 miles of czoast line populated by onlyabout 4,000 people. It is not fair to theEmpire. I appeal to the Premier not to becontent with voicing the opinion he hasexpressed but to go further and see ifeffect cannot be given to his views. It hasbeen suggested that the Premier should goHome to finalise the immigration agreement.T am in acecord with that suggestion, hut ifhie went Home and pointed out to the Brit-ish Government what a menace our unde-veloped -North is to the Empire, and suc-ceeded in getting the British Governmentand the Federal Government to assist inits development, lie would have done mnorefor the good of the Empire and the Statethtan by finalising the immigration agree-ment. I am not seeking to belittle the lat-ter by any means, but the other is a dutythat devolves upon him and is quite as im-portant as the immigration question. Onthe Estimates is an aniount of £21,000 f orthe development and administration of the

Norh-Wst.Why! 1 suppose it has cost£E100,000,000, if not more ,to develop thesouthern part. What is £E21,000 going todo for the North? -Millions, are required.We cannot undertake this task unaided, butwe could do it with the assistance of theCoin aon weal th and 'British Governments.It is the bounden duty of the Premier toget assistance to develop this huge terri-tory, which some day must be a greatwealth-producig asset. Whether it be de-velopedI as a separate State or as Federalterritury, u-c shall not lose by it; we shallbe an adjoining State and must benefit fromany development that takes place there.

Mir. LAMO0NI) (Pilbarn) (9.401: I re-gret that the North-West is in the throesof one of the most serious droughts everexperienced. This means a great setbackto that pail of the State. The latest in-formiation I have is that at least 50 percent. of the flocks on the stations has beenlost. If the drought continues ire cansafely say that the percentage of loss willbie higher. Owing to the drought largequantities of chaff are being taken into thePilbara electorate. I wish to appeal tothe Minister for Railways to grant someconcession in the freight charged on chafffrom Port Hedland to M1arble Bar. Theheavy expense incurred in the carriage ofthat commodity is a very serious item. An-other matter of great importance to thepastoral industry is the increasing numberof euros in the Pilbara district. It hasbeen urged by the Fort Hedhand and NXullst-gine Vermin Boards that the Minister for

1685

686[ASSEflLY.1

Agriculture should give this matter earnestconsideration with a view to having thispest brought under the Vermin Act. I hopethe Minister will consider the matter. Itdoes not affect the mnore wealthy squatters;the new settlers in the outside districts arechiefly affected. They are compelled to dotheir best to exterminate the pest, and asa result of their efforts, they are assistingto keep clean the inner stations which donot contribute to their work. Apart frompastoral pursuits, the Pilbora districts de-pends largely upon its mining resources,and I ]iojle the Government will arrive atsome definite policy to develop those re-sources. It is gratifying to know that theMinister for 'Mines is sympathetic towardsthe prosy ectors. He has been instrumentalin bringing about a nmuchi desired reductionin the price of explosives. I congratulatethe Minister upon having taken up thismatter so soon after assuming office. Thatin itself, however, is not sufficient to assistmining in mny diserict. We want somethingmore. We want sonic definite scheme ofdevelopment, particularly for our gold inu-ing areas. The gold mines in the Pilbaradistrict have been deserted, owing to thehigh cost of living, and the high cost oftransport. We have in two or three centresa Government battery, but the reefs thathave produced the greatest quantity of goldare at least 30 or 40 miles from the bat-teries, and the ore has to be carted overthat distance. Owing to that circumstancethe mines have been abandoned, althoughfair stone is loft in ninny of them. Thehigh eost of carting and crushing simplymade the m~ines unpayable. Before Statebatteries were established in Pilbara, themining industry there was on the downgrade. Private batteries charged loz. perton for the crushing of stone. I may quotesome figures showing the quantity of stonecrushed and the average rate per ton ofgold produced in various centres of Pit-hera. The Talga Talga field crushed 891.65tons of stone for 2,012.28 ozt., anaverage of 2.25 023. per ton. Thereis no show working at Talga Talgato-day, nor has there been for the last 10or 15 years, because the cartage to MarbleBaa-, 17 or 1S miles distant, is too expen-sive. At Nullagine 1,237.95 tons of orewere crushed f or a yield of 3,497.30 oat.,repr-esenting an average of 2.82 ozs. perton. T do not remember any stone beingraised at Nullagine during the last 12years. Then tlere is thre Warrawoona field,which crushed .5,700.01 tons for 17,29413Sozs., equal to 3.01 ots. per ton. It will beobserved that the average per ton of goldwon fronm those reefs was exceptionallygood. Wiith a reasonable amount of prac-tical sympathy from the Government, thePilbara mining industry could be reestoredto prosperity. Apart from gold, Pilbara haslarge deposits of copper and asbestos. Alittle assistance would bring about goodmrineral development in the district. I

would hate spoken about the Port Hedlundwater supply, had I not received the assur-alice of the Minister for the North-Westthat the wvork of testing will be taken inhand immediately.

[Mr. Agelo took the Chair.]

Mr. MARSHALL (Murchison) [9.51]:I propose to deal with the North-West De-pertsinent on the items, and therefore in thisgeneral discussion shall not elaborate onthat department and its administration.Members have had a fair digest of theNorth-West and its possibilities. Themember for Roebourne left very littleunsaid about the North-West, and what hedid say was well expressed. From my briefexperience in Parliament it seems to methat all Governments desire to stand offnorth-w-estern development. Apparently itis realised that to develop the North boldlyand vigorously would cost much money.No member wvho understands the North-West ill argue against that view. I haveheard it said even by Cabinet Ministersthat the sum of money involved was solarge as to render a development policy im-practicable. However, the same difficultyconfronted the late Government when they"-crc contemplating the developmient of theSouth-West. The only trouble is that theNorth-West is too far from the seat ofgovernment. Where is the weak point ofour national defence?

Hon. Sir James Mitchell: Where is thestrong point?

Mr. MARSHALL: The North-West is theweakest link in our chain of defence.

Hr. Sir James Mitchell: Tile chain iswyea k.

'Mr. MARSHALL: If the late Govern-ment could raise courage to take on a veryexctensive policy of south-western develop-ment, another Government should not lackcourage to take on a cheap policy of north-western development.

Mr. J. H1. Smith: What about the Wynd-hene M,%eat Works and the Carnarvon MeatWorks? A lot of money has been sunk inthem, more than has been spent on south-western development.

Mr. MARSHALL: I am speaking of apolicy of development involving millions ofmoney. The North-West has been kept outof its turn too long. In the early days ofthis session city members nnd south-westernmembers wrangled about the policy thatshould have been adopted by the late Gov-erniment for clearing the Peel and Batemanestates. It is realised that the capitalisa-tion of blocks on those estates will beheavy.

Hon. Sir James Mitchell: It won't.Air. MARSHALL: I do not say the

capitalisattion will be heavier thnn neces-sary, but still it wrill be heavy. The ques-tion has been, what is the best policy forclearing? To obtain the same results in

1686

[5 Novnmslsa, 1924)68

the North-West from deiryg and pig rais-ing as will be obtained inte South-Westwould be a much cheaper proposition. Ifthe late Government had started a vigor-ouis policy of development in the North-W~est, they would hove had a return fromit in 12 months, instead of having to waityears for a return. Land could have beentaken lip aloing the Ord River northward tothe coast and eastward to the NorthernTerritory. In that country the dairying in-'ustry would have returned as much in 12

L uths as it will return in the South-Westdo. ig five years. Had a northern policyof % velopulent been adopted by the lateCover, 'ient, that policy would now beyieldiunj to the present Government almostenough i. 'ney to finance the south-westernscheme. . e Leadier of the Opposition willdeny that, iotwithstandiag Which I canassure him it. 'a positively true. There areup there hoadi 'is of square miles of landwith natural per. 'anent water and a fairlygood average rain. 11l up to about 20 inches,quite sufficient to h sure success to anyonegoing in for dairyL -v. The member forRoebourne (Mr. Tee(. 'le) knows that thesugar prass, if cut at a certain period,makes very good ensilage. T saw some thathad been stored for over tni years. It wasstill sweet. What the ex-Prt-'der has beendoing in the South-West con.' have beendone much more cheaply in the -

Tarth-West.One of the chief obstacles to tht develop-ment of the Kiniberlcys is the preat 4istanefrom the capital, entailing unduly hi,-b costof production. I have heard it snia thatbecause wool has brought big prices 'Jiisyear, all those settled on the land from 'NeMurchison up to the Northern Territory ar.-in the lap of prosperity. As a matter offaet there are going to be many failure;particularly amongst the repatriated lads.Although their wool this year has broughtgood prices, unless they get good rain inthe near future their flocks will be so de-pleted that many of them will he compelledto abandon their properties. I am not sug-gesting there will he any failure amongstthe old-established pastoralists, but cer-tainly the new settlers, particularly the re-patriated ufn, will have a very bitterstruggle unless rain falls shortly. T amnot sure that the North-West has had sym-pathetic consideration from successive Gov-ernments. I under-stand that no wharfageis paid on primary products passing overthe Fremantle Wharf. I am not complain-ing of that policy, but surely if it be goodfor Fremnantle it should be good for theNorth-Western ports.

The -Minister for Lands: It applies toonly certain kinds of produce.

Mr. MARSHALL: Still, if it be groodfor Fremantle it should be good for PortHedland. M-information is that every-thing passina over the fledlauid jetty hasto pay wharfaee, whereas Primary productspassing over the Fremantle -wharf pay -nowharfage. In my view no port should be

singled out for special tre-atment. Thenthere are the charges on the Fort Hedland-Marble Bar Railway, 50 per cent. higherthan on any other railway in the State, ex-cept perhaps the Ravensthorpe, liI I donot see why, because a line is not linked upwith the main railway system of the State,it should be penalised by the imposition ofexcessive charges. 'When railways in thesouth of the State were not giving a pro-fitable return, the people of the North-Westhad to pay their quota in taxation to coverthe lose. Why, then, should the Governmentnow turn round and make those people paythe full running costs of their own rail.way? I agee with those who think thatthe Federal Government should assist inthe development of the North-West. It iseimpossible for such a small population aswe have to develop the whole of the StateWithin a reasonable time. Yet, of course, theFederal Government have made such a won-derful job -of their development of theNorthern Territory that I am somewhatafraid to ask their assistance in the develop-ment of our North-West. At any rate it isclear that theme is some obligation on theFederal Goverument to lend the State as-sistance. However, not at any price will 1be a party to banding over to the FederalGovernment our sovereign rights in theNorth.

Mir. COVERLAY (Xinsterley) 1O0.10):-Undoubtedly the development of the Northis a national question. Without any greatcapital expenditure the Government couldestablish certain industries in the North, asfor instance the pearl-button making. 1understand that smnall button-waking ma-vhines can be purchased in Germany at thec-ist of £18 a piece. Here is a direction inwWell the Government might, without anygreat, cost, assist the people up North.Some of our large absentee companies holdmilliocim of acres in the Kimberleys. Solarge are Micr areas that they cannot hopeto develop themn to their falil capacity, ifthose holdings' were judiciously subdivided,we should have "on each of them at least50 families, whevr to-day we have only acompany of two or three men. Membersrepresenting the Norih-West will realise thatwhat I say is correct. The stations run theirsto-k along the water L-ontagues, but as soonas one gets back from tihe water be realisesthat it is only along the ciparian frontagethat there is nny development. I am con-vinced that before very long cotton is goingto play a great part in Eaqt Kimberley.Still, I think our first step to Lcloser settle-ment should be through smnalgr pastoralholdings. nnd agriculture will naturally fol-low. One of our urgent necessities isthe provision of proper shipping facii-ties, with closer attention to our jettiesAnd, where necessary, extensions of thosestructures. On the Estimates we havea small suim for B~rooms jetty. Ap-

1687

1688 [ASSEMBLY.]

parcatly it is only for maintenance.I should like to swe on the Loan Estimatesa large amount for the necessary extensionof that jetty. Frequently ships have greatdifficulty in getting into the port, with theresult that cargo is sent ashore per lighter,which of course greatly adds to the cost ofeverything coining into the port. The mem-ber for Roebourne (Mr. Teesdale) alludedto the tropical agriculture expert and saidthat the settlers of the North were verymuch dissatisfied with his advice. Let mesay that that inan bad an area of about1,500 miles to cover, and that without anygood facilities. I aee no provision on theEstimnatesfor a motor car for his conveniencein getting about the country. Most officersin responsible vositions have the use ofmotor cars, but this gentleman had not. Iknow he made one or two trips in Eastand West Kimberley, but there was nothingin the nature of a joy ride about them. 1hope the Minister will see that this officeris replaced. Unless we get a tropical ad-viser the progress of agriculture in thatpart of the State will be retarded. Whensuch an officer is appointed I also hope hewill be given better facilities than the pre-vious officer had of getting about the Kim-berleys. The Chief Protector of Aboriginespractically holds a dual position. I haveno objection to that, but his proper placeis in the North-West, not in Perth. Manyagriculturists and pastoralists have suffereda great deal of inconvenience owing to theDirector ref using a permit for triggers, andas a result they have been held up for smetime, through no fault of their own butthrough a misunderstanding. If this officerhad been domiciled in the North, he wouldhave obtained first-hand information and agreat deal of this inconvenience would havebeen obviated. I notice that the cost of theadministration of the North-West is increas-ing year by year. The view of the localgoverning body is that the administrationof the department is wrong, and that therewvas very much better administration underthe old systeum when the Engineer-in-Chieifwas in charge. I would urge upon the Gov-ernment to reorganise this department asearly as possible.

The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE(Hon. M. F. Troy-Mt. Magnet) [10,18]:Th, member for Kimberley has askedwhether it is proposed to appoint asuccessor to Mr. Wise. Nothing up to datehas been done in the matter. Probablysteps will be taken to do this in the nearfuture, when thc policy for the North-West has been outlined. I very much re-gret that Mr. Wise and Mr. Button shouldhave been attacked by the member forRoebourne. In my opinion Mr. Wise wasa most conscientious officer and one whoknew his business thoroughly. If everthere was a man who knew his business, itwas Air. Wise. He camne here with the

highest qualifications from a country thatis essentially tropical in every respect. Hewas thus able to riske comparisons withthat country and Western Australia. Ihave read his reports. From my ownknowledge of tropical agriculture-for Ispent my boyhood days in tropical parts-I would say that Mr. Wise was an ex-tremely practical man, who knew his job.

Mr. Teesdale: He knows nothing aboutcotton. He was a good banana man.

The MIINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE:I know the lbon, member does not like him.

Mr. Teesdale: I have never claimed todo so.

The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE:The hon. member has a bitter tongue.

.Mr. Tecsdale: If I had half as bittertongue as you have I would cut it out.You have a more venomous tongue thanany msember of this Chamber.

The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE:Then I shall be a good match for the hon.member.

.Mr. Teesdale: We shall have to run indouble harness.

The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURIX,The hon. member has attacked a man Whowas an officer of my department.

Mr. Teesdale: I have done it openly.The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE:

Mr. Wise knows more about tropical agri-culture than the ho,.. member, who knowsnothing.

Mr. Teesdale: I have never claimed toknow anything about it.

The MINISTER FOB AGRICl!LTl'EFI:The only evidence the hion, member overgave in this Chamber of his knowledge ofagriculture was when he urged upon theGovernment to buy the Riverton Esatatefor returned soldiers. That turned out tohe an absolute catastrophe. That is thefull extent of his record as an agriculturist.

Mr. Teesdale: Has that anything to dowith the 'Wyndham Meat Works?

The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE:In scathing and bitter language he hasreferred to the reports of two responsibleofficers, who are not here to defend them-selves, who have no axe to grind aud noconstituents to back them up, but whohave given good service to the country.Although I may disagree with the opinionsexpressed in the reports of some of myofficers, I do not disagree with Mr. Wise'sreports. Whatever reports officers makethey do not make them for the purpose ofplaying up to some constituency, or someaccepted view of a district, but with theobject of giving their best services to thecountry.

Mr. Teesdale: One report was made withthe object of getting a trip up North. Theofficer in question did not care about theNorth. I refer to Mr. Sutton, the biggestwuster T ever struck, go fr as sin-thingappertaining to cotton is concerned.

[5 -NOVEMBER, 1924]I~t

T':e CtII XLAN: Order ! I must askt!.e liwi. ireml.et not to interject.

The MINISTER FOR AGRtICULTUREi:Members know how far they can acceptthe IlIn lueniber's statemtenlt.

Mr. Teesdale: Thank God they are notinfluenced by your opinions.

The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE:I would certainly not be influenced byanything the lion, member said.

Mr. Teesdale: You can be as vitriolic asany man if you are opposed. You baveiheni a M1inister for about 10 minutes only.

The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE:I should like to know who is making thespeech.

Mr. Teesdale : You cannot make onequicker than I can.

The CHAIRMAN:. The hion. membermust cease interjecting.

Mr. Teesdale: Let the Minister cease hisabuse.

The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE:The hon. member is quite competent tobitterly attack a man who is not in thisHouse. Hie has given expression tosome bitter remarks concerning an officerPmore hitter than I have ever heardexpressed here before. I am of opinionthat the first thing to do for the North isto effect the settlement of the pastoralareas, and the hon. member knows that.

Mr. Teesdale. You always have that inyour mind.

The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE:The member for Kimberley spoke thetruth, and that is borne out by Mr- Wise,when he stated that in the North-Westthe country is eaten out along the rivers,and back from the rivers no wells are sunkand there are no water supplies. Thecountry is not effectively settled from thepastoral standpoint. Even if people wereto engage in agricultural occupations thereto-morrow, they would not be able to selltheir produce because there is no popula-tion to provide the market. If the countrywere effectively, settled from the pastoralpoint of view, the population would bethere.

Mr. Teesdale: That Is a nice thing tosay.

The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE:Mr. 'Wise has said that the North-Westis not tropical .except as to heat. Thetropical conditions of Queensland are Inno sense similar to the tropical conditionsof the North-West. Queensland is tropicalin heat as well as in rainfall, and thatmakes nll the difference. The North-Westis not tropical, except aS to heat, apartfrom Kimberley, which has a rainfallover four to five months. It cannotbe expected, therefore, that we canrow products in the North-West such ascan be grown in Queensland. People haveamused me by talking about growing sugarin the North-West. It cannot be done,because sugar is a plant that requires a

fairly continuous rainfall and tropical heat.Under those conditions only can it begrown profitably. I do not know whatcant be done in the matter of cotton.

Mr. Teesdale: Don't say anything abottsugar either. We have a 80 in. continuousrainfall in the Kimnbeleys.

The 'MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE:I grew up in the sugar industry, and oughtto know more about it than the hon, mem-ber. Prom my knowledge of the rainfalland the seasons required, I am sure thatsugar cane requires an 8Gmn. rainfall, whichmust be spread over the whole year. It isimpossible to get results without thoseconditions. The some thing applies to al-most every tropical product, with the ex-eeition of cotton and a few other thingswhich mature in short seasons,

M.Nr. Tesdale: 'What about tobacco?The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE:

I do not know about that. There will comea time when the North-West will be arich and prosperous territory, but that timewill not come until this country carries alarge population and until water supplies.are provided for irrigating the country.In such places as Roebourne, Ouslow, andthe Gascoyne agriculture can be carriedon only under irrigation conditliis. Whatis the use of talking about spendingmoney in the South-West as against theNorth-West? In the South-West it is apractical proposition. The -rainfall is goodand lasts sufficiently long to produce pay-able crops. But in the North-West, apartfrom Kimberley, there is not a rainfall overa general season, hut an occasional rainfall,and sometimes no annual rainfall. wecannot put peono there at the risk of try-ing to make a living under conditions wherenature will not help them. To the localitiessuggested by the member for Roebournsone might send a tribe of Arabs and expectthem to live there, but one could net sendour own people, knowing that under thenatural conditions they could not possiblymake a living. If the hon. member wouldput uip a proposition of that kind, it wouldnot deserve a moment's consideration.

Mr. Tecsdale: You have been there foronly 10 minutes.

The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE:-I know something of the North-West. Thelion. member was there for years. If this pro-position is so good, why did he not put hiscapital into it? He was in Roehourne foryears. The hon. member, who never in hislife had any practical knowledge of thisparticular matter-

Mr. Teesdale: I have paid more moneyout of my own pocket for information thanever you did.

The CHAIRMAN: Order, please!Mr. Tecsdale: You never tried to get

anv-thine by paying for it.The -MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE:

That is cheap.Mr. Teesdale: I paid my owi money for

my fare to Queensland.

168u

[ASSEIMLY.]

The CHIAIRM1ANX: I want to give themember for Roebourue warning that I shallhave to report his interjeetions to theSpeaker if they continue,

The MNINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE:I make an exception of Kimberley, becauseI have studied the reports of the rainfall,and have studied MrI. Wise 's reports. Cot-ton can be grown in Kimnberley, but I amsatisfied that sugar cannot be grown inKimberley. I had an idea that maize couldbe grown in Kinmberley, because it is a cropthat requires only a short sasoual rain-fall. f thought that if large quantitiesof nmaize were grown there, pigs could beraised. Kimberlcy may ultimately becomea great dairying country,. In Kimberleyduring the seasonal rainfall large qoanti-ties of fodder can be conserved, and a coun-try where that can be dlone, and where thereis pilenty of surface water, and plenty ofwater to be got at a depth, it is quite pos-sible to carry' on the dairying industry.Bunt it is no use drawing comparisons be-tween the 'North and the South. I havealways held the opinion, and I hold it now,that this community is too small to be ableto raise the millionis of money required tobe sper.t on north-western development.This community is only a handful of peo-ple. I have often thought that there shouldbe another capital at Broome, around which,if it were a commercial and political cen-tre, population would spread. The firstthing to be effected in the North-West is,I consider, pnstoral settlement. Australiahas been settled in the beginning from that.The first settlement of Australia came bymeans of pastoral occupation. Mfen broughttheir floelcii and herds, tind spread out; andas the populntion grew, the country was cutup into smaller areas, and thus developed.And that is the only way in which theNorth-West can be developed. There is noeffective pastoral settlement yet in theNorth-West, and the reason for it, and thereason why settlement cannot be madesmaller, is that the pastoral interests pre-vent it. It is 110 use crying for the stars,and it is no use hion. members condemn-iag men who hare given good advice. Iwill not hear M.Nr. Wise condemned now. Imet him, end I know him to be absolutelyscrupulous and honionrable. Never have Iread more practical reports tha3i his.

MAr. Teesdinle: I never said 'Mr. Wise wasnot honourable.

The IYNISTER FOR AGRlCULTUXE:I am satisfied with the reports of. Mr.Sutton on his visit, although they do notsatisfy the hion. member.

M.%r. Teesdale: Where did Mr. Sutton gotThe MNINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE:

He reported conscientiously and to the bestof his knowledge.

Mr. Teesdale: On what he saw- on a 60-mile trip on a main road in a motor ear.

The MIN12ISTER FOR AGRTCULTVRE:Mr. Sc'tton is a gentleman--

Mr. Teesdnle: I never said he wasn't.

The MIINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE:-who has done a great deal for WesternAustralia.

M)r. Teesd ale: I have admitted it.The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE:

In our general progress he has played alarge part. When lie wnt to the NatO-Wear, hie wvent there to do the best he couldfor this State, and he did it. I would nothe worth my salt if I sat in this House andheard my officers criticised unjustly wi~h-out defending them'.

.Mr. TAYLOR (Mit. Margaret) [10.30]:I think there is a little misunderstandingbetwnc the M fiister and the member forRoebourne. The Minister made a strongpoint of the integrity and honour of histwo officers. It is his bounden duty to pro-tect thenm. I listened to the member forRoehourne and he certainly did not attackthe honour or probity of those officers inany particular. His charge was. that theyknew nothing about cotton. Hle gave themcreditI one f or knowing all about wheat grow-inig, the other for knowing all about dairy-ing. I think everyone in this House whoknows 3Mr. Sutton respects him. I had notthe pleasure of kaowing Mr. Wise, but iflie was ant officer like M1r. Sutton we shouldhe proud of having had him in our ser-vice. The member for Itoebourne criticisedthose officers only in regard to their know-ledge of cotton growing.

M\r. Teesale: That is all, absolutely.

PIte, Commissioner for Xorifl-leest,

Mr\I. TEESDALE: The Commissioner forthe North-West had something to do withthe engagemrent of Mfr. Wise. The miemberfor lit, Margaret has rather anticipatedwhat I was going to say, that I made noreflection upon either M.%r. Sutton or Mr.Wise, except as regards M4r. Sutton's visitto the North, which consisted of a 00-inile.ride in a motor car, and as regards 'Mr.Wise 's knowledge of cotton growing.

The CHAI'RM.AN: I must remind thelion. member that we are on items.

Mdr. TEESDALE: Mr. Wise was engagedby the Northi-West Commissioner.

The Mlinister for Mlines: Mir. Wise wasnot appointed, nor was he recommended,by the N1orth-West Commissioner.

The CHAIRM\AN: I am afraid I can-not allow any further discussion of 'Mr.Wise on this itemn.

Mr. TEESDAJLE: I desire to read anextract from a letter I hold in my hand,revealing great lack of interest on the partof those who should foster north-westerndevelopment-

They are very sanguine about cotton.No wvender, because they have no interestin it. The reason why I say so is thatno one has been here to see when, how,and where we planted it. They certainlysan- the ploughed space. It has grownand has been picked, and 'Mr. Wise has

(6 NOVEMIBER, 1924.1 19

II-ver seen it. It is six months since we;aw him. Surely tovr visits a year arenot too much to ask. If not, what is %fr.Wise here for? I think many more areasking the same question here in theNorth.

[Mr, Lutep resumed flee Chair.]

Mr. MARSHALL: I move--That the item be strucko eat.

Residents of the North-West see no neces-sity for this provision. Apart from agradual increase in the cost of administra-tion, there baa been no reflection of theitem in the progress of the North-West.The officer concerned can well be retainedin the Treasury. If a referendum weretaken in thle North- West on the abolitionof this department, there would be an over-whelming majority in favour. I do notknow why we should see the charities andhospitals starved for assistance while wepay out £852 for an office which, in theopinion of those who should know, isridiculous. I do not know that the Cont-missioner has done anything whatever towarrant the expenditure. Indeed, from myexperience I know that nothing of import-ance has been done and that so little atall has been done that even the organisedbodies in the North-West are of opinionthat they would he -hetter catered for undersome other system.

Mr. Taylor: Has there been no improve-ment up thbee

Mr. MARSHALL: Not the slightest.People ridicule the idea of hoping for anyimprovement.

Hon. S. W. M.UNSIE: I hope the Com-mittee will not delete this item. I am notgoing to reply to all the statements madeby the hon. member, but I wanlt it to beknown that the Government are even nowconsidering the position of the North-WestDepartment as a whole.

_1r. Taylor: I think you need to.Mr. TEESDALE: I am glad to hear the

Minister say that. I hope the Governmentwill give the question careful considerationbefore taking notice of exaggerated state-meats made about the department fromtime to time. I have watched thin depart-ment carefully, and I know we are gettingour work done as economically and satis-factorily as possible with the small amountof money available. I hope we are not go-ing to allow any officer to suffer injusticeon account of bis name. There was a gooddeal of adverse criticism at the time of hisappointment, but I have watched himclosely, and I can say ho has justified hisposition in every respect, le is very en-thusiastic in his work and has given reallygood service to the State.

Mr. 'Marshall: Yes, but tell us somethingthat he has done-

31r. TEESDALE: I can say that he hasdone his duty.

Mr. Marshall: -Notwithstanding which hehas done nothing at all.

Mr. TEE$DALE: The hon. member mayknow a good deal about his own electorate,but he lias not had much call on the attend-ance of the Commissioner of the North-W'est. I should like the Government to in-quire as to what was the cost oi adminis-tration of the North-West under the PublicWorks Department, and what its cost dur-ing the last two years under the new systemhas been. I implore the Government not toabolish the department. It has given goodservice and the public are satisfied. Someamember may have gone to a township wherethe Commissioner has refused to grant somelittle consideration, hut we cannot have ourofficials condemned for that sort of thing.There must be something extending over along period.

Mr. ANGELO: I shall not express anopinion as to whether the officer has beendoing his work efficiently, but I have alwayscontended that the salary paiRd huhi couldbe better spent on an additional Ministerto devote four or five months of the yearto making himself personally 'acquaintedwith the affairs and conditions of the North-West. He could report direct to Cabinet.

Mr. Teesdale. With no engineeringability?

Mr. ANGELO: All the engineeringability required could be made available bythe Public Works Department, I havenever been favourable to the North-WestDepartment taking over the functions ofother departments. It should have beenan advisory department only. 'When it wasnecessary to obtain expert knowledge, itshould have been obtained from the de-partments.

Mr. Teesdale: And a nice time it usedto take to get it.

Mr. ANGELO: If we had a Ministerfor the North-West he would be able toadjudicate on most questiuns.

Mr. Teesd ale: The Commissioner will dome.

Mr. ANGELO: On the bigger issues hecould report to Cabinet. I am glad to bearfrom the Honorary Minister that somethingis to be done, and I hope it will be on thelines I suggest. I have nothing againstthe present Minister for the North-West,who has too much to do and cannot per-sonally give time to the North-West.

Mr. LAMXOND: I hope this item will bedeleted ont the ground that the departmenthas never justified its existence. ' If mem-hers agree to its deletion, they will be ful-filling the desire of 930 per cent. of thepopulation of the North-West.

Mr. Teesdale: You cannot say that.Mr. LA-MOND: And probably an even

greater percentage.Mr. Teesdale: That is not fair.MIr. COVERLEY: I am expressing the

opinion of the Broome, Derby and Wynd-ham Road Boards when I say the admin-istration of the North-West is entirely

1691

1692 (ABSEMBLY.]

wrong. The Commissioner has not therequisite power; he is merely acting as asmoke screen between the Government andthe people. I hope the item will be de-leted.

Mir. MARSHALL: I regret that Mr.Teesdale's feathers should have been soruffled. I am moving to delete the item,not because the Commissioner happens tobe Mr. Drake-Broc-kmnan, hut because oftwo years' experience on tbe MeekatharraRoad Board during his regime. The Com-missioner lacked the intelligence to takean interest in the simplest matter concern-ing the road board. A conference of roadsboards was held and certan proposals wereagreed to, but the North-West had norepresentation upon it and had no say inthe framing of the laws to which theNorth-West was afterwards subject. Whathas the Commissioner done to warrant theexpenditure? Would not the £:852 bebetter spent amongst the poor or on theHealth Department? I have never seenthis officer, and I have nothing against himpersonally.

Mr. Teesdale: Why do you attack himfMr. MNARSHALL: Because he has done

nothing since his appointment three orfour years ago.

Mr. Teesdale: That is, in your electorate.Mr. MARSHALL : Yes. T travelled

through part of the North-West recentlyand while the Meokatharra people objectedto his administration, the further North Iwent, the more was the department re-garded as a joke.

Mr. Teesdale: It applies only to theroad board in your district.

Mr. MARSHALL: I could give otherinstances. The member for Roebournesaid that before the Commissioner wasappointed correspondence was subject togreat delays. To my knowledge it took31% months to receive a reply to a lettersent to the Commissioner from Meeka-tharra.

Mr, Taylor: That was before the aerialservice.

Mr. MARSHALL : I believe it was.Even so, 3 j months was altogether toolong to have eorrespondence held up. Ifthere is a position in which this officer c-an'he usefully employed, I would not objectto his transfer, but the people of theNorth are of my opinion. I bare alwayscontended that this was a useless appoint-meat. It has never been justified.

Mr. GRIFFITHS : The member forMurchison has asked for evidence ofneglect. I have not heard anything fromthe Commissioner regarding the cultivationof peanuts. Recently I received from theNorthern Territory a letter which I shallread.

The CHAIRMAN: Does it deal with thisofficerT

Mr. GRIFFITHS: No, but I wish toshow that this important industry has beenneglected.

The CHAIRMAN: YOU Cannot read theletter now. You should have br.oulir it induring the general discussion.

Mr. TAYLOR :We cannot expect theHonorary Minister, whmo merely representsthe Minister for the North-West, to hen fait with all the details necessary to

combhat the arguments raised by the mem-ber for Murchison. It is strange to hearmembers representing the North-West saythat this officer has not justified his selec-tion for the position. The member forKimberley goes so far as to say that thelocal authorities regard his services as ofno value. I do not feel like voting todelete this item, seeing that the HonoraryMinister has given the Committee anassurance the whole question will be goneinto thoroughly. I suppose we shall. hearnext year what has been done. It is justas well to give the Government a chanceto reorganise the North-West Department.I am satisfied that this part of the Stateis not getting the value from the changein the administration that was expected,but I am not in a position to verify thestatement.

Hon. S. W. IWUNSIE: The member forMurchison wanted to know one thing thatthe Commissioner for the North-West haddone. I could quote many instances, butwill confine myself to one. For eight ornine years there have been complaints withregard to the local road boards in theNorth not having any proper system ofaudit. There has always been trouble withthe Government in respect to the amountof subsidies paid to road boards there.Since the North-West Department hasbeen created a system has been established.

Mr. Teesdalc:*And a good one too.Hon. S. WV. MTJNSIE: The Department

believes that at the end of this year everyroad board will have had an audit. Priorto that, not one had an audit for five years.Arrangements have also been made for acontinuous audit each year.

M8r. MARSHALL: In consequence of theHonorary Minister having cited one thingdone by the Department, I will withdrawmy motion.

Motion by leave withdrawn.

Vote put and passed.

Progress reported.

H~onse odjo,rned at 11.6 pjm.