Junto 1 (5 Mar 2011): The Nature of Truth G. Edward Roberts [email protected] Copyright...

Junto 1 (5 Mar 2011):The Nature of Truth

G. Edward [email protected]

Copyright 2011 Elparazim

Agenda

• Worship• Prayer• Topic Discussion• Lunch• Game (?)• Other Topic Discussion (?)


Jude DoxologyAnd now all glory to him, who alone is GodWho saves us through his SonJesus Christ, our LordFor He is able to keep us from falling awayHe brings us into his presence with love and joy

Chorus:All power, authority, all splendor, and majestyAre his from the beginning and evermoreAnd evermore


Junto• Junto by Benjamin Franklin was a group of men

that assembled together for a mutual enrichment society to talk about issues, including “Big” issues, and issues of the day

• Our Junto: mainly Theology (What do we believe and why), Family, Church, Government, Economics, Business, etc.

• junto.elparazim.com• junto.latterrainmedia.com• junto.gloryorganics.com


Notice and Disclaimer• Copyright on the bottom• This may turn into a book• We will be recording, but not releasing

anything that is personal• This is not an official CCI event, not sanctioned

by it, views expressed are not necessarily held by CCI

• We will not be dis-respectful of CCI, but it will not constrain our discussion either


Format• This first one, I have a lecture• Typically: Everyone will study out a particular topic and be

ready to discuss• On the web site, There is a required section, that one must

do before attending (also an optional and of interest sections)

• We will have the topics posted, so one can vote on them in terms of interest

• Need to be very precise on the topics, so we can study them out

• Second topic: Calvinism• Question: How often would you like to have these?


Gathering of Topics

• What do we want to discuss in upcoming Juntos?

• Topics: Salvation, Redemption, Particulars of {Word of Faith, Pentecostal, Fundamentalist, Evangelical, Protestant} Doctrines, Church Issues, Woman Question, ??

• Through a Book in the Bible?• Outside issues: Business, Government,

Economics


Reformation before Revival• Revival without knowledge is not necessarily a good thing…. Look at

the French Revolution

• “A religion, even popular Christianity, could enjoy a boom altogether divorced from the transforming power of the Holy Spirit and so leave the church of the next generation worse off than it would have been if the boom had never occurred. I believe that the imperative need of the day is not simply revival, but a radical reformation that will go to the root of our moral and spiritual maladies and deal with causes rather than with consequences, with the disease rather than with symptoms.

It is my considered opinion that under the present circumstances we do not want revival at all. A widespread revival of the kind of Christianity we know today in America might prove to be a moral tragedy from which we would not recover in a hundred years.”

-- A.W. Tozer


What do we need a reformation in?

• Three Basic areas of Reformation (as I see it)– Family

• 23.8% Man-Wife families in America (2010 Census)• Voddie Bachman’s Statistics• We could have an increase just from the church• Vision: Multi-person, Multi-generational

– Whole Bible• Systematic

– Power of the Spirit• Carriers of God’s Glory: Individuals, Families, Churches,

Nations• “I think it is the case… that God does not care about the

things he did not invent” - Delana Roberts


First Topics• Why is it just Men here?• Nature of Truth– Why is truth important?– How do we understand Truth– Is there a limit to rational knowledge?– How do we change our truth?– How do we deal with truth with others?

• Educational/Hermeneutical Model: Questions are the key

• (Random) Tools for Doctrine Development


Why is it just Men here?

• Your Role is to search out the word• Example: Story of Mrs. Roberts and Mrs.

Haygood (Eschatology has a bearing)• Women don’t (Typically) want to debate this– No Less of a Woman if they do– No Less of a Man if they don’t

• To them what is the bottom line – tell me what to believe, they are wired to follow, similarly children


Team Dimension Profile


Creators

AdvancersRefiners

Executors

x

I John’s 2:12f Categories

• Children– Know the father– Sins have been forgiven, For His name sake

• Young Men– Strong– Know the Word (logos) of God abides in you – You have overcome the evil one

• Fathers– Because you know him who is from the beginning


Role (Duties) as Husband and Fatheras a Studier of the Word of God

• Wash wife with water of the word– Eph 5:26 – Wash her with the Word (rhema)– I Cor 6:11, Tit 3:5, Heb 6:2,

• Instruct children• This is where you should be thinking– How do I lead a family?– How do I support a family?– What should I be doing right now?


What is Maturity?

• I postulate a simple definition:– “The removal of Arbitrariness”– This is a huge destroyer of anything

Do you want to know how to attract a good wife?(forget the pheromones)


Why Truth?

• Whatever is True (Phil 4:8)• You know the truth (I Jn 2:20f)• All Knowledge (Rom 15:14)• Love the truth (forgotten part of love)– 2 Thess 2:10– 2 Jn 1,3– Rom. 1:18,25 – The problem here may not be

what you think it is


Nature of Truth and Error• Almost all Error comes with connecting things together

that should not be connected (E.g.: Death and Resurrection)

• Truth Can Be Temporary (E.g. No man knows the day or the hour)

• Truth is not Simple (Trap: A simple answer turns away a more intense investigation, e.g. Heaven and Hell)

• Many Times the Truth is on the Fringe and is outside of our comfort zone (e.g. Heiser’s work)

• Truth at the meta-level (E.g. I Cor. 8-11, Context)• Truth is not all logic (Godel’s Theorem), The Spirit must

be involved


Truth involves the Narrow Path• If it is in our culture, it is suspect• E.g. What does a Metrosexual teach us -> there

really is a distinction between men and women and it is important that we as Christians keep it

• “Of us Bible Christians it may truthfully be said that we 'sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.' The separating line between the Church and the world has been all but obliterated.”

-- A.W. Tozer


Doctrine vs. Dogma

• Doctrine is a codification of beliefs or a body of teachings or instructions, taught principles or positions, as the body of teachings in a branch of knowledge or belief system.

• Dogma is the established belief or doctrine held by a religion, or by extension by some other group or organization. It is authoritative and not to be disputed, doubted, or diverged from, by the practitioner or believers.


The Bible should make you ask Questions

• Discuss: Rabbi David Fohrman’s Approach• If you read your Bible and never change your

thinking, why bother?• Book: Methodical Bible Study by Traina• Why are asking Questions important? – Two Educational Models from the Old Testament

• Shema (Deut. 6:7) – Do it all the time• Stones in the River bed (Josh 4:21-22)

Asking of a question is important to store the answer


Example

• Why is the blood separated from the body when we take communion?

• Would we naturally think this way (blood separated from the body)?

• What is the significance of this?• Why do we have to remove the blood before

we eat meat?


It should bother you!

Models


Milk MeatModel Refinement

What happens when we refine/change our models?

Example Model: Redemption


release

redemption

Redeemer Holder

Redeemee

Ransom

Substitutionary Ransom

λύτρωσις

ἐξαγοράζω

Λυτρωτής (37.129 ) Holder

Redeemee

λύτρον

ἀντίλυτρον

Honor• Every Generation must examine what has been passed on to it, in terms

of its correctness• Traditions of Men is the only thing specified in the Bible that can make the

Word of God of no effect– Mt 15:2f, Mk 7:3f, Col 2:8,Gal 1:14– Not all traditions are bad: II Thess. 2:15,3:6; I Cor. 11:2

• Follow the Faith and Good Doctrine– Heb 13:7 – imitate their faith– 1 Tim 4:6, 2 Tim 1:13,3:10

• Honor those who have come before, you are indebted to them, you would not be where you are without them coming before you (e.g. Connections)

• Not being controversial for controversy sake• Caveat: Don’t assume you necessarily understand what the previous

generation understood, and thus reject it out of hand (e.g. A.W. Tozer)• Caveat: Don’t reject “another camps” view, nor their specialty (e.g.

Mennonites Story)


How do we deal with Changed Doctrine

• Read: I Cor. 8-10• Gal 5:13 – You were called to freedom, but do

not let your freedom be an opportunity for the flesh

• Read: Rom 14


Be Careful who built your conscience, it is a sin to go against it

Limitation of Rational Thought

• Godel’s Thereom


Truth Statement

Logical Deduction

One can have truth statements that one can not reach by logic.

Galations 5

• Story of Dan Davis• Buddism – “sound of one hand clapping”,

trying to break the mind to get into the spirit… right idea, wrong approach

• They understand that you can not get to all truth through rational thought

• Galatians 5:19f is similar in approach


Revelation through the Spirit

• The greatest revelation I ever received was from long term Praying in the Spirit

• Need to read: Walk of the Spirit, the Walk of Power by Dave Roberson

• I Cor. 14• I Jn – The Holy Spirit is our teacher• There is a limitation on our logic, but not on

the Spirit, remember “you know all knowledge”… but it comes by the Spirit


(Random) Tools for Doctrine Development


Slow down!!• More important that you meditate on the

scripture than read it!• More on “meditation” mentioned in the

scripture than reading• Meditate on it until it “bothers” you– I don’t really know what it says– It could be saying these different options– Why would the author say this anyway?


Context• My Two favorite context examples:– Apollos – understand the story context

(Acts 18:18f)

– I Cor. Chapter 2 – understand the context• “I preach Christ and him crucified”

You must understand the Context!


Semantically Narrow/Wide


Semantically Wide Term

Semantically Narrow Term

choregeo

“supply”

Venn DIagram

“lavish”

Syntax: E.g. Use of Tenses

• Why is salvation spoken of in the New Testament in three Tenses: Past, Present, Future?– Eph 2:5 “… by grace you have been saved”– I Cor. 15:2 “.. By which you are being saved”– I Cor. 3:15 “… and he will be saved”(one of the basis for “imputation”, but is it?)

• Jesus used tense to prove a doctrine (Mt. 22:32)


Prepositions are the hardest

• Phil 4:19My God shall supply all your needs according to

his riches in glory in Christ Jesus


Be Picky

• E.g. Mt. 7:22• Did Jesus say they did not know me?


Beware of “Textualism”• It assumes, for instance, that if we have the word for a

thing we have the thing itself. If it is in the Bible, it is in us. If we have the doctrine, we have the experience. If something was true of Paul it is of necessity true of us because we accept Paul's epistles as divinely inspired. The Bible tells us how to be saved, but textualism goes on to make it tell us that we are saved, something which in the very nature of things it cannot do. Assurance of individual salvation is thus no more than a logical conclusion drawn from doctrinal premises, and the resultant experience wholly mental.- A.W. Tozer

• E.g. Paul says I am crucified with Christ… does that mean I can say that of myself? (Discuss: Identification)


Taxonomy of Developing DoctrineConjuncture: class n is more reliable as doctrine than class n+1

• Class 1: Derivation from textthis is where a direct statement from the Word is given in the text... "Jesus was the Son of Man"... is a direct derivation from the text.. arguments here stem mostly from what does the Greek or Hebrew text actually say...even then sometimes it is ambiguous

• Class 2: Derivation from text with supporting scripturesThis is where a text could be interpreted only a finite number of ways (usually two, sometimes more)... then one brings in other scriptures to show that the text is only supported by other scriptures in one of those interpretations


Doctrine Taxonomy (cont.)• Class 3: Derivation from Context

this is where a statement is made but its understanding comes from the context in which it is made... so for example, the widow's mite... actually is about something very different once you put it in the context of what Jesus said after that incident (you actually have to piece two gospels chronologies together)... Jesus preached against the Pharisees because they robbed widow houses... put in context it means something different than what appears on the surface... but class 3 is a bit more shaky than Class 2 because it could be argued that the correct context was not presented

• Class 4: Derivation from multiple scriptures

this is where a doctrine is not directly said in any scripture, but the scriptures taken together say the doctrine, example: I would put JDS (Jesus Died Spiritually) in this one... there is no place that it is explicit but scriptures taken together imply it (or some would argue that it does)... this is probably where most doctrinal statements come up..


Doctrine Taxonomy (cont.)• Class 5: Arguments from Types

this is where one says the type from the Old Testament points to something in the new... we know from I Cor 10 that in fact it is valid and it is correctly applied sometime... these sometimes can get weird... and arguments as to doctrinal stance with them typically have to be obvious...

• Class 6: Arguments from the Nature of GodThese are hard arguments... but we know the Nature of God is Love... so everything done by God is Love... so in inference of this we can say certain actions taken by God are Love... so we can have the doctrine of Jericho being wiped out was a Love act... which I believe it was... (having read among other's Heiser treatment of the situation)... so these are valid ways of constructing doctrine... but certain not of the caliber of the one above...


Doctrine Taxonomy (cont.)

• Class 7: Arguments from "I know by the spirit“There is precedence for this in the scripture... Paul said in I Cor 9... about the Oxen being muzzled... that it was written for the Oxen but for our sake... Paul had to get that by the Spirit... so there is precedence... It depends on who said they got it though

• Class 8: "Not the Lord but I" Derivations

This is the bottom rung doctrine... that still has scriptural precedence... Paul said in I Cor 7, that he did not get this from the Lord, but I think... truth comes in this type as well, just not necessarily one I would hang my hat on...


Junto 1 (5 Mar 2011): The Nature of Truth G. Edward Roberts [email protected] Copyright...

Documents

Transcript of Junto 1 (5 Mar 2011): The Nature of Truth G. Edward Roberts [email protected] Copyright...